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We keep hearing this. But the ERG have nowhere else to go. They sit in safe seats parasitically feeding off their Tory host; they aren't going to jump ship any time soon.Chris said:
Because half the Tory party wouldn't stand for it?Benpointer said:
I am still struggling to understand why Theresa May (or the Cabinet, since they now seem to be in control) don;t take the obvious way out and put the Deal to a HoC vote subject to a confirmatory referendum (Deal versus Revoke). ...Sean_F said:
If people are forced into a straight choice between Revoke A50/ No Deal, Survation suggests the result would be 51/49, which I think is plausible.twistedfirestopper3 said:
I don't know why you or the likes of Casino on the other side get so worked up by this. You're literally jizzing yer pants every time you mention it .People I know on either side have barely mentioned it, apart from a good friend who posts pro EU stuff on Faceache a lot. If there is a second referendum, I reckon remain will edge it by not much more than leave edged it last time. The country is split down the middle, always has been, always will be.IanB2 said:
His point is that if between one and two million people are prepared to turn up in central London for a demo, it isn't unrealistic to think that two or three times that many are prepared to click and sign an online petition.RobD said:
I'm not sure I follow his point. Is he suggesting that physically going to vote for something is more meaningful? If so, I agree with himTheScreamingEagles said:
https://twitter.com/petefrasermusic/status/1109459409246269440RobD said:
Only a few thousand? You underestimate the fanaticism of some.Benpointer said:Presume it's already been noted that the Revoke Article 50 Petition is now over the 5million mark?
Of course there will be a few thousand fraudulent signatures on there which no doubt completely invalidates it in the eyes of some.
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Its an important and critical decision, not some sort of game or sporting contest.RobD said:
Why should Remain get two chances? The decision to leave was in 2016.Benpointer said:
I am still struggling to understand why Theresa May (or the Cabinet, since they now seem to be in control) don;t take the obvious way out and put the Deal to a HoC vote subject to a confirmatory referendum (Deal versus Revoke).Sean_F said:
If people are forced into a straight choice between Revoke A50/ No Deal, Survation suggests the result would be 51/49, which I think is plausible.twistedfirestopper3 said:
I don't know why you or the likes of Casino on the other side get so worked up by this. You're literally jizzing yer pants every time you mention it .People I know on either side have barely mentioned it, apart from a good friend who posts pro EU stuff on Faceache a lot. If there is a second referendum, I reckon remain will edge it by not much more than leave edged it last time. The country is split down the middle, always has been, always will be.IanB2 said:
His point is that if between one and two million people are prepared to turn up in central London for a demo, it isn't unrealistic to think that two or three times that many are prepared to click and sign an online petition.RobD said:
I'm not sure I follow his point. Is he suggesting that physically going to vote for something is more meaningful? If so, I agree with himTheScreamingEagles said:
https://twitter.com/petefrasermusic/status/1109459409246269440RobD said:
Only a few thousand? You underestimate the fanaticism of some.Benpointer said:Presume it's already been noted that the Revoke Article 50 Petition is now over the 5million mark?
Of course there will be a few thousand fraudulent signatures on there which no doubt completely invalidates it in the eyes of some.
That would surely be worth a try. Bercow would accept it. Labour would find it difficult (not impossible) to whip against but many Labour MPs would abstain or vote for it anyway imho.
Although it wouldn't be my desired outcome, I suspect Deal would win that referendum.0 -
Thanks Big_G Very nice cruise - we needed it too!Big_G_NorthWales said:
Hope you had a great cruise. Your suggestion is proposed for this weekBenpointer said:
I am still struggling to understand why Theresa May (or the Cabinet, since they now seem to be in control) don;t take the obvious way out and put the Deal to a HoC vote subject to a confirmatory referendum (Deal versus Revoke).Sean_F said:
If people are forced into a straight choice between Revoke A50/ No Deal, Survation suggests the result would be 51/49, which I think is plausible.twistedfirestopper3 said:
I don't know why you or the likes of Casino on the other side get so worked up by this. You're literally jizzing yer pants every time you mention it .People I know on either side have barely mentioned it, apart from a good friend who posts pro EU stuff on Faceache a lot. If there is a second referendum, I reckon remain will edge it by not much more than leave edged it last time. The country is split down the middle, always has been, always will be.IanB2 said:
His point is that if between one and two million people are prepared to turn up in central London for a demo, it isn't unrealistic to think that two or three times that many are prepared to click and sign an online petition.RobD said:
I'm not sure I follow his point. Is he suggesting that physically going to vote for something is more meaningful? If so, I agree with himTheScreamingEagles said:
https://twitter.com/petefrasermusic/status/1109459409246269440RobD said:
Only a few thousand? You underestimate the fanaticism of some.Benpointer said:Presume it's already been noted that the Revoke Article 50 Petition is now over the 5million mark?
Of course there will be a few thousand fraudulent signatures on there which no doubt completely invalidates it in the eyes of some.
That would surely be worth a try. Bercow would accept it. Labour would find it difficult (not impossible) to whip against but many Labour MPs would abstain or vote for it anyway imho.
Although it wouldn't be my desired outcome, I suspect Deal would win that referendum.
Crossed the Biscay southbound in the tail of Storm Gareth which was interesting but we found the ship very stable considering the seas. I certainly felt for the passengers and crew on the Viking Sky when I saw the footage of that a few hours ago.
Re my susgestion - is it a tabled amendment do you know?0 -
ZzzzzzzzRobD said:
Why should Remain get two chances? The decision to leave was in 2016.Benpointer said:
I am still struggling to understand why Theresa May (or the Cabinet, since they now seem to be in control) don;t take the obvious way out and put the Deal to a HoC vote subject to a confirmatory referendum (Deal versus Revoke).Sean_F said:
If people are forced into a straight choice between Revoke A50/ No Deal, Survation suggests the result would be 51/49, which I think is plausible.twistedfirestopper3 said:
I don't know why you or the likes of Casino on the other side get so worked up by this. You're literally jizzing yer pants every time you mention it .People I know on either side have barely mentioned it, apart from a good friend who posts pro EU stuff on Faceache a lot. If there is a second referendum, I reckon remain will edge it by not much more than leave edged it last time. The country is split down the middle, always has been, always will be.IanB2 said:
His point is that if between one and two million people are prepared to turn up in central London for a demo, it isn't unrealistic to think that two or three times that many are prepared to click and sign an online petition.RobD said:
I'm not sure I follow his point. Is he suggesting that physically going to vote for something is more meaningful? If so, I agree with himTheScreamingEagles said:
https://twitter.com/petefrasermusic/status/1109459409246269440RobD said:
Only a few thousand? You underestimate the fanaticism of some.Benpointer said:Presume it's already been noted that the Revoke Article 50 Petition is now over the 5million mark?
Of course there will be a few thousand fraudulent signatures on there which no doubt completely invalidates it in the eyes of some.
That would surely be worth a try. Bercow would accept it. Labour would find it difficult (not impossible) to whip against but many Labour MPs would abstain or vote for it anyway imho.
Although it wouldn't be my desired outcome, I suspect Deal would win that referendum.0 -
The betting and currency markets aren't perfectly aligned, however. Since MV2 went down, the betting market moved significantly back toward no deal (having got down to negligible probability) whereas the pound only dipped slightly.rkrkrk said:
Tbh, I think it's very possible that he/she has made the same mistake again, in terms of failing to buy insurance which matches the risk. The GBP/USD relationship has a lot of factors, of which Brexit is only one.IanB2 said:
Viewcode's replacement bet is also a likely loser. At just over $1.32 there is a lot of bad news already priced in. If Brexit gets canned or significantly delayed, or if Parliament votes for a softer exit, there's a significant upside opportunity. I doubt there's more than a few cents' opportunity on the downside if we start to move toward no deal.rkrkrk said:Rather than buying dollars, viewcode might be better off buying US stocks/global tracker fund.
The stocks may appreciate in value, pay dividends and he/she can probably get some kind of tax relief e.g. SIPP/ISA.
But I disagree in that I think the market still reckons No Deal is unlikely.
It is 4.4 on betfair to happen in 2019. There must be some possibility of No Deal in 2020/later, but that would seem much less likely than No Deal this year. So overall the market is pricing No Deal at something like 25-30% probability... so not at all fully priced in.
Taking a longer view it is hard to see that you wont make money buying £s for $1.30.0 -
If you were going to play games with it, you wouldn't make it so obvious.IanB2 said:
The funniest one was yesterday someone on Twitter was making a big deal out of the fact that there was a signature from Kyrgyzstan proved the whole thing is fraudulent, then the Brit who was working out there came on to claim ownership of that signature.RobD said:
No doubt there are passionate supporters on both sides. Doesn’t mean a majority share either of their opinions.IanB2 said:
Probably fair. The percentage sign up from some of the university seats is remarkable, and there must be students well able to get round the checks on the site.RobD said:
If I were to guess I'd put the number of fake signatures somewhere in the hundred thousand regime, given the government themselves admit they don't even check for people using duplicate accounts from the big email providers (e.g., Microsoft, Google).IanB2 said:
His point is that if between one and two million people are prepared to turn up in central London for a demo, it isn't unrealistic to think that two or three times that many are prepared to click and sign an online petition.RobD said:
I'm not sure I follow his point. Is he suggesting that physically going to vote for something is more meaningful? If so, I agree with himTheScreamingEagles said:
https://twitter.com/petefrasermusic/status/1109459409246269440RobD said:
Only a few thousand? You underestimate the fanaticism of some.Benpointer said:Presume it's already been noted that the Revoke Article 50 Petition is now over the 5million mark?
Of course there will be a few thousand fraudulent signatures on there which no doubt completely invalidates it in the eyes of some.
Nevertheless the inexorably steady round-the-clock (slower at night) rise in the number of signatures, the entirely credible distribution of postcodes, and the number of people prepared to spend time and money pitching up in central London, suggests the total isn't unrealistic. Surely almost everyone who attended yesterday had signed, and they only need one or two friends or family members to have signed also to justify the total.
You're even allowed to sign from Dubai, if you like...0 -
There is a counter petition - it's currently under 10% of the Revoke one.AlastairMeeks said:
https://twitter.com/estrangeirada/status/1109426983711191041?s=21FrancisUrquhart said:
But even less checks than the petition website...TheScreamingEagles said:
https://twitter.com/petefrasermusic/status/1109459409246269440RobD said:
Only a few thousand? You underestimate the fanaticism of some.Benpointer said:Presume it's already been noted that the Revoke Article 50 Petition is now over the 5million mark?
Of course there will be a few thousand fraudulent signatures on there which no doubt completely invalidates it in the eyes of some.0 -
Sean_F said:
A lot more people would have voted Leave, in round 1, if they knew that it was subject to review.Nemtynakht said:
The problem I have with a second referendum is that it should have been set out prior to the previous vote. If it had I would have voted Leave not Remain, as I would have been able to review before reconfirming.Benpointer said:
Well let's hope he took time off from his long-distance walk to sign it then!IanB2 said:
One Mr N. Farage floated the idea on national television, as I recall.Benpointer said:
Ahahah.IanB2 said:
At just over 4 millionFrancisUrquhart said:
Next biggest was also Brexit related.Benpointer said:
I suspect 5m signatures is a large enough number to influence more than a few MPs. It's now easily the largest parliament petition, I believe. Can't remember the next biggest...Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Pointer, disagree on both counts. I suspect tens or hundreds of thousands of signatures will be fraudulent. That doesn't mean it's invalid.
It also doesn't mean a petition matters more than a vote.
'twas the petition started by a Leaver, BEFORE the 2016 vote, calling for a second referendum, that after 2016 became suddenly popular with Remainers.
Mind you wasn't a second referendum first suggested by several Leavers before the 2016 vote too?
I have to admit it the whole Brexit project has been a wonderfully run exercise in self-destruction by the Brexiteers. Now they are destroying the project itself.
Maybe Vladimir has decided it's served its purpose?
And your evidence for that is?....0 -
The only way to test whether shenanigans are involved in this petition is to create a petition against bots and then bot it to h*ll, just to see what happens.
I'd do it but I don't particularly want to meet with the Computer Misuse Act as it might be career limiting. :-)
I suspect that what might be happening is that people are registering their vote two or three times using different emails rather than massive bot abuse, although the number of votes during the night is a little suspicious.
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Got to be gutting when you turn up to a San Marino match and they concede in the first 5 minutes. Isn't the whole point for them to cling on to 0-0 for as long as possible, while the opponents become slowly more nervous of messing up?
Quite something that you can go 1-0 down and be more than 500/1 on Betfair!0 -
currently LREM ( Macron ) and RN ( Lepen) are neck and neck in the european elections
gilets jaunes not really impacting either party
http://www.lefigaro.fr/elections/europeennes/europeennes-le-duel-entre-lrem-et-rn-se-consolide-dans-l-opinion-201903240 -
It's pretty flat during the night.AnotherEngineer said:The only way to test whether shenanigans are involved in this petition is to create a petition against bots and then bot it to h*ll, just to see what happens.
I'd do it but I don't particularly want to meet with the Computer Misuse act as it might be career limiting. :-)
I suspect that what might be happening is that people are registering their vote two or three times using different emails rather than massive bot abuse, although the number of votes during the night is a little suspicious.
https://odileeds.org/projects/petitions/241584
I agree there will be an amount of people using multiple email addresses. Hard to see what else could be done to prevent fraud though. (Require your NI number? Introduce a national ID?)0 -
As I recall the first person to challenge the nighttime signup rate made his point in a post to PB at round 4am UK time.AnotherEngineer said:The only way to test whether shenanigans are involved in this petition is to create a petition against bots and then bot it to h*ll, just to see what happens.
I'd do it but I don't particularly want to meet with the Computer Misuse Act as it might be career limiting. :-)
I suspect that what might be happening is that people are registering their vote two or three times using different emails rather than massive bot abuse, although the number of votes during the night is a little suspicious.0 -
To criticise Blair for not winning a VoNC between 94 and 97 is in IMO very unfair. For a start the Conservatives started in 1992 with an absolute majority of 25 and and extra 10 or so unionists to act as a buffer. Although there were two or three VoNCs in this period, they were all linkte to other votes by Major as a means of forcing the euroseptic Tories into in line. TB never seriosly went for this strategy.TheScreamingEagles said:
The last time a government fell thanks to a vote of confidence/no confidence was when Mrs Thatcher worked skilfully with other opposition parties to bring down the government.justin124 said:Casino_Royale said:
'What, like post her election in 1975?
What you forget is that she was a skilled politician. Very skilled.
She only lost it post GE1987. '
I would not accept that Thatcher was a particularly effective Opposition Leader. As PM in a Hung Parliament she would not have been able to obtain concensus from other parties - bar the Unionists. Beyond that she would have faced serious dissent from the 'Wets' and Heathites within the Tory ranks.
Blair never managed it, Corbyn hasn't, yet.
Instead he and his shadow cabinet concentrated on driving the news agenda so that in the last year New Labour really was the government in waiting. The news and the political interviews were often focussed on what New Labour will do not what the Major government should not be doing. I feel most people now remember how rudderless the second Major government was, but have forgotten how much the sucessful shadow cabinet was. The current LOTO and shadow cabinet is absolutely hopeless in this respect.
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It would take some dedication to spread fake signatures in significant numbers across every council area by full postcode in a pattern close to the Remain referendum result.RobD said:
If you were going to play games with it, you wouldn't make it so obvious.IanB2 said:
The funniest one was yesterday someone on Twitter was making a big deal out of the fact that there was a signature from Kyrgyzstan proved the whole thing is fraudulent, then the Brit who was working out there came on to claim ownership of that signature.RobD said:
No doubt there are passionate supporters on both sides. Doesn’t mean a majority share either of their opinions.IanB2 said:
Probably fair. The percentage sign up from some of the university seats is remarkable, and there must be students well able to get round the checks on the site.RobD said:
If I were to guess I'd put the number of fake signatures somewhere in the hundred thousand regime, given the government themselves admit they don't even check for people using duplicate accounts from the big email providers (e.g., Microsoft, Google).IanB2 said:
His point is that if between one and two million people are prepared to turn up in central London for a demo, it isn't unrealistic to think that two or three times that many are prepared to click and sign an online petition.RobD said:
I'm not sure I follow his point. Is he suggesting that physically going to vote for something is more meaningful? If so, I agree with himTheScreamingEagles said:
https://twitter.com/petefrasermusic/status/1109459409246269440RobD said:
Only a few thousand? You underestimate the fanaticism of some.Benpointer said:Presume it's already been noted that the Revoke Article 50 Petition is now over the 5million mark?
Of course there will be a few thousand fraudulent signatures on there which no doubt completely invalidates it in the eyes of some.
Nevertheless the inexorably steady round-the-clock (slower at night) rise in the number of signatures, the entirely credible distribution of postcodes, and the number of people prepared to spend time and money pitching up in central London, suggests the total isn't unrealistic. Surely almost everyone who attended yesterday had signed, and they only need one or two friends or family members to have signed also to justify the total.
You're even allowed to sign from Dubai, if you like...0 -
The targeted advertising is working well today - I am getting an offer for Indian home loans from 8.8% from a company based in Mumbai. Restores my confidence in the inability of Google et al to control everything.
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Average age of Tory member is only about five older than that of labour.IanB2 said:
And there's no guarantee the party wont find a way to again avoid leaving their leadership up to the views of their eccentric elderly members.Sean_F said:
The problem is 99.9% would sooner stick needles in their eyes than give money to the Conservatives.Gallowgate said:0 -
Which as the mean of a human population cohort is rather a lot.notme2 said:
Average age of Tory member is only about five older than that of labour.IanB2 said:
And there's no guarantee the party wont find a way to again avoid leaving their leadership up to the views of their eccentric elderly members.Sean_F said:
The problem is 99.9% would sooner stick needles in their eyes than give money to the Conservatives.Gallowgate said:0 -
Yes. Just been reading the BTL Express comments (someone has to). People are still convinced we are leaving on Friday BY LAW!!!!! Lots and lots of them...nico67 said:Some deluded Leavers in the Tory party still think they can get the UK out by next Friday .
I will very much enjoy the odious pathetic Bone not having his party on the 29th .
They are going to be disabused of that notion.
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And it runs out in less than a month; the Revoke petition has 5 months to run yet.logical_song said:
There is a counter petition - it's currently under 10% of the Revoke one.AlastairMeeks said:
https://twitter.com/estrangeirada/status/1109426983711191041?s=21FrancisUrquhart said:
But even less checks than the petition website...TheScreamingEagles said:
https://twitter.com/petefrasermusic/status/1109459409246269440RobD said:
Only a few thousand? You underestimate the fanaticism of some.Benpointer said:Presume it's already been noted that the Revoke Article 50 Petition is now over the 5million mark?
Of course there will be a few thousand fraudulent signatures on there which no doubt completely invalidates it in the eyes of some.0 -
@Chris, @IanB2, @rkrkrk
I note your points, namely:
* US stocks/global tracker fund via an ISA might be better
* Buying dollars at £1=$1.32 is not an unambiguous good, and may even be bad
* Betfair Exchange has a good bet on "not in 2019" which may be better
I have to run to catch a train so I cannot respond in more detail now but will do so later tonight. If you or anybody else wishes to make suggestions, please do so.0 -
Mr Pointer,
The cunning plan of Revoke versus the May deal has an obvious flaw. Those leavers who prefer a softer Brexit or a harder Brexit have no obvious choice, but that is the aim isn't it? Whereas if it were a straight re-run, they could all vote Leave.
I know this is bleeding obvious, verging on childish, but I'll join in the fun and propose an alternative. How about the MPs keeping their word? Sorry, now I'm being silly, but you started it.
Whatever your imaginative options, many MPs lied about honouring the referendum result. How will they explain that to Leavers during canvassing next time? At least the LDs were openly refusing to honour the vote.
If it comes to another referendum, I won't bother voting. There's absolutely no point. At least, I know for sure now.0 -
Didn't get to sleep that night. All the way a paper bag was on my knee, man it was a dreadful flight!Benpointer said:
Does this mean we can now fly in from Maimi Beach BOAC?CarlottaVance said:Old enough to remember all of them.....
https://twitter.com/markkwiatkowski/status/1109846618168266753
Have flown on all of them except BOAC....0 -
Wasn't it against San Marino, where England needed to win at least 7-0 to qualify for the World Cup (I'm guessing it was for USA 94) and after a couple of minutes England had conceeded a goal?Quincel said:Got to be gutting when you turn up to a San Marino match and they concede in the first 5 minutes. Isn't the whole point for them to cling on to 0-0 for as long as possible, while the opponents become slowly more nervous of messing up?
Quite something that you can go 1-0 down and be more than 500/1 on Betfair!0 -
Why don't we just let them think we've left on Saturday? Maybe they will STFU and go away.dixiedean said:
Yes. Just been reading the BTL Express comments (someone has to). People are still convinced we are leaving on Friday BY LAW!!!!! Lots and lots of them...nico67 said:Some deluded Leavers in the Tory party still think they can get the UK out by next Friday .
I will very much enjoy the odious pathetic Bone not having his party on the 29th .
They are going to be disabused of that notion.
Edit: I will be looking out for the first person to say "See I told you leaving the EU would be painless" on Saturday.0 -
I'm back in the ....Foxy said:
Didn't get to sleep that night. All the way a paper bag was on my knee, man it was a dreadful flight!Benpointer said:
Does this mean we can now fly in from Maimi Beach BOAC?CarlottaVance said:Old enough to remember all of them.....
https://twitter.com/markkwiatkowski/status/1109846618168266753
Have flown on all of them except BOAC....0 -
Yes, it does look to have been fairly flat last night. The conspiracy theorist in me might suggest that the bot algorithms have been trained...Benpointer said:
It's pretty flat during the night.AnotherEngineer said:The only way to test whether shenanigans are involved in this petition is to create a petition against bots and then bot it to h*ll, just to see what happens.
I'd do it but I don't particularly want to meet with the Computer Misuse act as it might be career limiting. :-)
I suspect that what might be happening is that people are registering their vote two or three times using different emails rather than massive bot abuse, although the number of votes during the night is a little suspicious.
https://odileeds.org/projects/petitions/241584
I agree there will be an amount of people using multiple email addresses. Hard to see what else could be done to prevent fraud though. (Require your NI number? Introduce a national ID?)
I'm sure Theresa May would like the idea of a national ID card, although an actual card seems to have disappeared from the agenda for the moment. Perhaps their database is now good enough without a physical card being needed.0 -
Any Con MP who failed to support the government in a VONC would be out on their ear immediately and would never stand again as a Conservative candidate for anything. It would be swift and permanent.TheScreamingEagles said:
The last time a government fell thanks to a vote of confidence/no confidence was when Mrs Thatcher worked skilfully with other opposition parties to bring down the government.justin124 said:Casino_Royale said:
'What, like post her election in 1975?
What you forget is that she was a skilled politician. Very skilled.
She only lost it post GE1987. '
I would not accept that Thatcher was a particularly effective Opposition Leader. As PM in a Hung Parliament she would not have been able to obtain concensus from other parties - bar the Unionists. Beyond that she would have faced serious dissent from the 'Wets' and Heathites within the Tory ranks.
Blair never managed it, Corbyn hasn't, yet.
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It would be a free hit, a "send them a message" vote.Benpointer said:Sean_F said:
A lot more people would have voted Leave, in round 1, if they knew that it was subject to review.Nemtynakht said:
The problem I have with a second referendum is that it should have been set out prior to the previous vote. If it had I would have voted Leave not Remain, as I would have been able to review before reconfirming.Benpointer said:
Well let's hope he took time off from his long-distance walk to sign it then!IanB2 said:
One Mr N. Farage floated the idea on national television, as I recall.Benpointer said:
Ahahah.IanB2 said:
At just over 4 millionFrancisUrquhart said:
Next biggest was also Brexit related.Benpointer said:
I suspect 5m signatures is a large enough number to influence more than a few MPs. It's now easily the largest parliament petition, I believe. Can't remember the next biggest...Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Pointer, disagree on both counts. I suspect tens or hundreds of thousands of signatures will be fraudulent. That doesn't mean it's invalid.
It also doesn't mean a petition matters more than a vote.
'twas the petition started by a Leaver, BEFORE the 2016 vote, calling for a second referendum, that after 2016 became suddenly popular with Remainers.
Mind you wasn't a second referendum first suggested by several Leavers before the 2016 vote too?
I have to admit it the whole Brexit project has been a wonderfully run exercise in self-destruction by the Brexiteers. Now they are destroying the project itself.
Maybe Vladimir has decided it's served its purpose?
And your evidence for that is?....0 -
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I imagine JRM is perfectly happy with it. People who don't understand basic grammar are more likely to know their place.Benpointer said:
I can imagine it really upsets JRM. Which is justifucation enough to keep using it.Peter_the_Punter said:
Thanks TSE. Still don't like it though. Smacks of sneering?TheScreamingEagles said:
It was my choice, I chose it solely to show that it turns out Brexit doesn't mean Brexit.Peter_the_Punter said:Wish Mike would stop using that picture. It may have been mildly amusing at first but it isn't nice to mock the grammatical errors of the less well-educated, even if they are Kippers.
Time to bin it?0 -
Noted with thanks.TheScreamingEagles said:
It isn't meant to be sneering.Peter_the_Punter said:
Thanks TSE. Still don't like it though. Smacks of sneering?TheScreamingEagles said:
It was my choice, I chose it solely to show that it turns out Brexit doesn't mean Brexit.Peter_the_Punter said:Wish Mike would stop using that picture. It may have been mildly amusing at first but it isn't nice to mock the grammatical errors of the less well-educated, even if they are Kippers.
Time to bin it?
However I shall retire the use of this picture unless the thread writer specifies it.0 -
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I have been on cruise ships in the North Sea, Atlantic and Antartica in seas as bad and many passengers were very scared. The main problem with these high seas and wind at storm force is launching the lifeboats which becomes impossible. Of course we did not lose our engines which is very serious as the skipper cannot position the ship into the seas, risking going broadside to the waves and capsizingBenpointer said:
Thanks Big_G Very nice cruise - we needed it too!Big_G_NorthWales said:
Hope you had a great cruise. Your suggestion is proposed for this weekBenpointer said:
I am still struggling to understand why Theresa May (or the Cabinet, since they now seem to be in control) don;t take the obvious way out and put the Deal to a HoC vote subject to a confirmatory referendum (Deal versus Revoke).Sean_F said:
If people are forced into a straight choice between Revoke A50/ No Deal, Survation suggests the result would be 51/49, which I think is plausible.twistedfirestopper3 said:
I don't know why you or the likes of Casino on the other side get so worked upIanB2 said:
His point is that if between one and two million people are prepared to turn up in central London for a demo, it isn't unrealistic to think that two or three times that many are prepared to click and sign an online petition.RobD said:
I'm not sure I follow his point. Is he suggesting that physically going to vote for something is more meaningful? If so, I agree with himTheScreamingEagles said:
https://twitter.com/petefrasermusic/status/1109459409246269440RobD said:
Only a few thousand? You underestimate the fanaticism of some.Benpointer said:Presume it's already been noted that the Revoke Article 50 Petition is now over the 5million mark?
Of course there will be a few thousand fraudulent signatures on there which no doubt completely invalidates it in the eyes of some.
That would surely be worth a try. Bercow would accept it. Labour would find it difficult (not impossible) to whip against but many Labour MPs would abstain or vote for it anyway imho.
Although it wouldn't be my desired outcome, I suspect Deal would win that referendum.
Crossed the Biscay southbound in the tail of Storm Gareth which was interesting but we found the ship very stable considering the seas. I certainly felt for the passengers and crew on the Viking Sky when I saw the footage of that a few hours ago.
Re my susgestion - is it a tabled amendment do you know?
As far as I know all options are going to be put into the indicative vote0 -
Fair point m'lord.OnlyLivingBoy said:
I imagine JRM is perfectly happy with it. People who don't understand basic grammar are more likely to know their place.Benpointer said:
I can imagine it really upsets JRM. Which is justifucation enough to keep using it.Peter_the_Punter said:
Thanks TSE. Still don't like it though. Smacks of sneering?TheScreamingEagles said:
It was my choice, I chose it solely to show that it turns out Brexit doesn't mean Brexit.Peter_the_Punter said:Wish Mike would stop using that picture. It may have been mildly amusing at first but it isn't nice to mock the grammatical errors of the less well-educated, even if they are Kippers.
Time to bin it?0 -
It’s quite clear that mass free movement of labour is incompatible with the laissez faire approach we have historically had to the registration of people and ID cards. We were totally and utterly unprepared for the changes that came about due to the expansion to the east and the need for a multitude of reasons to have an adequate monitoring (and deportation process) to cope with the ‘challenges’ it brought.AnotherEngineer said:
Yes, it does look to have been fairly flat last night. The conspiracy theorist in me might suggest that the bot algorithms have been trained...Benpointer said:
It's pretty flat during the night.AnotherEngineer said:The only way to test whether shenanigans are involved in this petition is to create a petition against bots and then bot it to h*ll, just to see what happens.
I'd do it but I don't particularly want to meet with the Computer Misuse act as it might be career limiting. :-)
I suspect that what might be happening is that people are registering their vote two or three times using different emails rather than massive bot abuse, although the number of votes during the night is a little suspicious.
https://odileeds.org/projects/petitions/241584
I agree there will be an amount of people using multiple email addresses. Hard to see what else could be done to prevent fraud though. (Require your NI number? Introduce a national ID?)
I'm sure Theresa May would like the idea of a national ID card, although an actual card seems to have disappeared from the agenda for the moment. Perhaps their database is now good enough without a physical card being needed.0 -
I think you'll find that's an opinion not evidence.Sean_F said:
It would be a free hit, a "send them a message" vote.Benpointer said:Sean_F said:
A lot more people would have voted Leave, in round 1, if they knew that it was subject to review.Nemtynakht said:
The problem I have with a second referendum is that it should have been set out prior to the previous vote. If it had I would have voted Leave not Remain, as I would have been able to review before reconfirming.Benpointer said:
Well let's hope he took time off from his long-distance walk to sign it then!IanB2 said:
One Mr N. Farage floated the idea on national television, as I recall.Benpointer said:
Ahahah.IanB2 said:
At just over 4 millionFrancisUrquhart said:
Next biggest was also Brexit related.Benpointer said:
I suspect 5m signatures is a large enough number to influence more than a few MPs. It's now easily the largest parliament petition, I believe. Can't remember the next biggest...Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Pointer, disagree on both counts. I suspect tens or hundreds of thousands of signatures will be fraudulent. That doesn't mean it's invalid.
It also doesn't mean a petition matters more than a vote.
'twas the petition started by a Leaver, BEFORE the 2016 vote, calling for a second referendum, that after 2016 became suddenly popular with Remainers.
Mind you wasn't a second referendum first suggested by several Leavers before the 2016 vote too?
I have to admit it the whole Brexit project has been a wonderfully run exercise in self-destruction by the Brexiteers. Now they are destroying the project itself.
Maybe Vladimir has decided it's served its purpose?
And your evidence for that is?....
One of my colleagues confessed he had voted Leave as a protest safe in the knowledge that it wouldn't count because his constituency was overwhelmingly Remain. He was genuinely shocked and surprised when I told him his constituency was irrelevant.0 -
What is IDS driving there? Looks interesting.williamglenn said:Steve Baker's also at Chequers.
https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/11098489899549204510 -
Is that not the truth about this chaos. So many do not have a clue, starting with ERGdixiedean said:
Yes. Just been reading the BTL Express comments (someone has to). People are still convinced we are leaving on Friday BY LAW!!!!! Lots and lots of them...nico67 said:Some deluded Leavers in the Tory party still think they can get the UK out by next Friday .
I will very much enjoy the odious pathetic Bone not having his party on the 29th .
They are going to be disabused of that notion.0 -
Labour would presumably say that it assumed Brexit would be negotiated sensibly but when it wasn't they were not obliged to continue their support. Yes, it's a bit weak, and dishonest, but it would probably just about pass muster.CD13 said:Mr Pointer,
The cunning plan of Revoke versus the May deal has an obvious flaw. Those leavers who prefer a softer Brexit or a harder Brexit have no obvious choice, but that is the aim isn't it? Whereas if it were a straight re-run, they could all vote Leave.
I know this is bleeding obvious, verging on childish, but I'll join in the fun and propose an alternative. How about the MPs keeping their word? Sorry, now I'm being silly, but you started it.
Whatever your imaginative options, many MPs lied about honouring the referendum result. How will they explain that to Leavers during canvassing next time? At least the LDs were openly refusing to honour the vote.
If it comes to another referendum, I won't bother voting. There's absolutely no point. At least, I know for sure now.
0 -
How 5 months. If we do not agree by the 12th April to hold EU elections we are out of the EU on the 22nd May. Revoke and referendum dies if their are no EU elections in the UKBenpointer said:
And it runs out in less than a month; the Revoke petition has 5 months to run yet.logical_song said:
There is a counter petition - it's currently under 10% of the Revoke one.AlastairMeeks said:
https://twitter.com/estrangeirada/status/1109426983711191041?s=21FrancisUrquhart said:
But even less checks than the petition website...TheScreamingEagles said:
https://twitter.com/petefrasermusic/status/1109459409246269440RobD said:
Only a few thousand? You underestimate the fanaticism of some.Benpointer said:Presume it's already been noted that the Revoke Article 50 Petition is now over the 5million mark?
Of course there will be a few thousand fraudulent signatures on there which no doubt completely invalidates it in the eyes of some.0 -
Indeed. It is normal with very big decisions, after the first approval, to scope the technical details, exact costs, possible pitfalls and legal implications. A that stage there is another decision made whether to really go for it based on the full information.IanB2 said:
Its an important and critical decision, not some sort of game or sporting contest.RobD said:
Why should Remain get two chances? The decision to leave was in 2016.Benpointer said:
I am still struggling to understand why Theresa May (or the Cabinet, since they now seem to be in control) don;t take the obvious way out and put the Deal to a HoC vote subject to a confirmatory referendum (Deal versus Revoke).Sean_F said:
If people are forced into a straight choice between Revoke A50/ No Deal, Survation suggests the result would be 51/49, which I think is plausible.twistedfirestopper3 said:
I don't know why you or the likes of Casino on the other side get so worked up by this. You're literally jizzing yer pants every time you mention it .People I know on either side have barely mentioned it, apart from a good friend who posts pro EU stuff on Faceache a lot. If there is a second referendum, I reckon remain will edge it by not much more than leave edged it last time. The country is split down the middle, always has been, always will be.IanB2 said:
His point is that if between one and two million people are prepared to turn up in central London for a demo, it isn't unrealistic to think that two or three times that many are prepared to click and sign an online petition.RobD said:
I'm not sure I follow his point. Is he suggesting that physically going to vote for something is more meaningful? If so, I agree with himTheScreamingEagles said:
https://twitter.com/petefrasermusic/status/1109459409246269440RobD said:
Only a few thousand? You underestimate the fanaticism of some.Benpointer said:Presume it's already been noted that the Revoke Article 50 Petition is now over the 5million mark?
Of course there will be a few thousand fraudulent signatures on there which no doubt completely invalidates it in the eyes of some.
That would surely be worth a try. Bercow would accept it. Labour would find it difficult (not impossible) to whip against but many Labour MPs would abstain or vote for it anyway imho.
Although it wouldn't be my desired outcome, I suspect Deal would win that referendum.0 -
I'm sure there could be a few abstentions for wisdom teeth and the like.notme2 said:
Any Con MP who failed to support the government in a VONC would be out on their ear immediately and would never stand again as a Conservative candidate for anything. It would be swift and permanent.TheScreamingEagles said:
The last time a government fell thanks to a vote of confidence/no confidence was when Mrs Thatcher worked skilfully with other opposition parties to bring down the government.justin124 said:Casino_Royale said:
'What, like post her election in 1975?
What you forget is that she was a skilled politician. Very skilled.
She only lost it post GE1987. '
I would not accept that Thatcher was a particularly effective Opposition Leader. As PM in a Hung Parliament she would not have been able to obtain concensus from other parties - bar the Unionists. Beyond that she would have faced serious dissent from the 'Wets' and Heathites within the Tory ranks.
Blair never managed it, Corbyn hasn't, yet.0 -
And it was counted at a district council level not constituency...Benpointer said:
I think you'll find that's an opinion not evidence.Sean_F said:
It would be a free hit, a "send them a message" vote.Benpointer said:Sean_F said:
A lot more people would have voted Leave, in round 1, if they knew that it was subject to review.Nemtynakht said:
The problem I have with a second referendum is that it should have been set out prior to the previous vote. If it had I would have voted Leave not Remain, as I would have been able to review before reconfirming.Benpointer said:
Well let's hope he took time off from his long-distance walk to sign it then!IanB2 said:
One Mr N. Farage floated the idea on national television, as I recall.Benpointer said:
Ahahah.IanB2 said:
At just over 4 millionFrancisUrquhart said:
Next biggest was also Brexit related.Benpointer said:
I suspect 5m signatures is a large enough number to influence more than a few MPs. It's now easily the largest parliament petition, I believe. Can't remember the next biggest...Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Pointer, disagree on both counts. I suspect tens or hundreds of thousands of signatures will be fraudulent. That doesn't mean it's invalid.
It also doesn't mean a petition matters more than a vote.
'twas the petition started by a Leaver, BEFORE the 2016 vote, calling for a second referendum, that after 2016 became suddenly popular with Remainers.
Mind you wasn't a second referendum first suggested by several Leavers before the 2016 vote too?
I have to admit it the whole Brexit project has been a wonderfully run exercise in self-destruction by the Brexiteers. Now they are destroying the project itself.
Maybe Vladimir has decided it's served its purpose?
And your evidence for that is?....
One of my colleagues confessed he had voted Leave as a protest safe in the knowledge that it wouldn't count because his constituency was overwhelmingly Remain. He was genuinely shocked and surprised when I told him his constituency was irrelevant.0 -
You can use the same email address to register at least two signatures. I've done it (albeit on a different petition).AnotherEngineer said:The only way to test whether shenanigans are involved in this petition is to create a petition against bots and then bot it to h*ll, just to see what happens.
I'd do it but I don't particularly want to meet with the Computer Misuse Act as it might be career limiting. :-)
I suspect that what might be happening is that people are registering their vote two or three times using different emails rather than massive bot abuse, although the number of votes during the night is a little suspicious.0 -
Mr Punter,
"but it would probably just about pass muster."
Only to those determined to be persuaded.
0 -
Some prize gammon in the lead picture0
-
So, would that apply to (for example) a Corbyn government?eristdoof said:
Indeed. It is normal with very big decisions, after the first approval, to scope the technical details, exact costs, possible pitfalls and legal implications. A that stage there is another decision made whether to really go for it based on the full information.IanB2 said:
Its an important and critical decision, not some sort of game or sporting contest.RobD said:
Why should Remain get two chances? The decision to leave was in 2016.Benpointer said:
I am still struggling to understand why Theresa May (or the Cabinet, since they now seem to be in control) don;t take the obvious way out and put the Deal to a HoC vote subject to a confirmatory referendum (Deal versus Revoke).Sean_F said:
If people are forced into a straight choice between Revoke A50/ No Deal, Survation suggests the result would be 51/49, which I think is plausible.twistedfirestopper3 said:
I don't know why you or the likes of Casino on the other side get so worked up by this. You're literally jizzing yer pants every time you mention it .People I know on either side have barely mentioned it, apart from a good friend who posts pro EU stuff on Faceache a lot. If there is a second referendum, I reckon remain will edge it by not much more than leave edged it last time. The country is split down the middle, always has been, always will be.IanB2 said:
His point is that if between one and two million people are prepared to turn up in central London for a demo, it isn't unrealistic to think that two or three times that many are prepared to click and sign an online petition.RobD said:
I'm not sure I follow his point. Is he suggesting that physically going to vote for something is more meaningful? If so, I agree with himTheScreamingEagles said:
https://twitter.com/petefrasermusic/status/1109459409246269440RobD said:
Only a few thousand? You underestimate the fanaticism of some.Benpointer said:Presume it's already been noted that the Revoke Article 50 Petition is now over the 5million mark?
Of course there will be a few thousand fraudulent signatures on there which no doubt completely invalidates it in the eyes of some.
That would surely be worth a try. Bercow would accept it. Labour would find it difficult (not impossible) to whip against but many Labour MPs would abstain or vote for it anyway imho.
Although it wouldn't be my desired outcome, I suspect Deal would win that referendum.0 -
Reading the last thread's criticism of the appalling James O'Brien... I think he personifies everything I dislike in someone, not least his inabilty to admit when he is wrong, a trait he shares with a similarly unlikeable person with a similarly inflated opinion of himself, Owen Jones... How To Be Wrong
https://twitter.com/rorymeakin/status/1106746250379055104
https://twitter.com/mrjamesob/status/11068500062402437140 -
I have 3 e mail addreses and my wife has 2 and no doubt I could create many more if I could have wanted to try to influence the petition. But I just could not be botheredTudorRose said:
You can use the same email address to register at least two signatures. I've done it (albeit on a different petition).AnotherEngineer said:The only way to test whether shenanigans are involved in this petition is to create a petition against bots and then bot it to h*ll, just to see what happens.
I'd do it but I don't particularly want to meet with the Computer Misuse Act as it might be career limiting. :-)
I suspect that what might be happening is that people are registering their vote two or three times using different emails rather than massive bot abuse, although the number of votes during the night is a little suspicious.0 -
Give or take some corner cases round Windrush and the like, ID cards would make no real difference. The government does have an online ID system called Verify but it has not taken off.notme2 said:
It’s quite clear that mass free movement of labour is incompatible with the laissez faire approach we have historically had to the registration of people and ID cards. We were totally and utterly unprepared for the changes that came about due to the expansion to the east and the need for a multitude of reasons to have an adequate monitoring (and deportation process) to cope with the ‘challenges’ it brought.AnotherEngineer said:
Yes, it does look to have been fairly flat last night. The conspiracy theorist in me might suggest that the bot algorithms have been trained...Benpointer said:
It's pretty flat during the night.AnotherEngineer said:The only way to test whether shenanigans are involved in this petition is to create a petition against bots and then bot it to h*ll, just to see what happens.
I'd do it but I don't particularly want to meet with the Computer Misuse act as it might be career limiting. :-)
I suspect that what might be happening is that people are registering their vote two or three times using different emails rather than massive bot abuse, although the number of votes during the night is a little suspicious.
https://odileeds.org/projects/petitions/241584
I agree there will be an amount of people using multiple email addresses. Hard to see what else could be done to prevent fraud though. (Require your NI number? Introduce a national ID?)
I'm sure Theresa May would like the idea of a national ID card, although an actual card seems to have disappeared from the agenda for the moment. Perhaps their database is now good enough without a physical card being needed.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/introducing-govuk-verify/introducing-govuk-verify0 -
It seems to be the case that duplicates are periodically stripped from the count. I suspect that is an easier way to manage the process, requiring less computer power and improving response times, than searching to email database for every new request... especially for petitions of 5m or more.TudorRose said:
You can use the same email address to register at least two signatures. I've done it (albeit on a different petition).AnotherEngineer said:The only way to test whether shenanigans are involved in this petition is to create a petition against bots and then bot it to h*ll, just to see what happens.
I'd do it but I don't particularly want to meet with the Computer Misuse Act as it might be career limiting. :-)
I suspect that what might be happening is that people are registering their vote two or three times using different emails rather than massive bot abuse, although the number of votes during the night is a little suspicious.
I am only speculating, if someone knows better it would interesting to hear from them.0 -
No. To my memory that has never happened. There was a match where we went one-nil down but there wasn’t that riding on it. I believe we won 7-1 in the end.eristdoof said:
Wasn't it against San Marino, where England needed to win at least 7-0 to qualify for the World Cup (I'm guessing it was for USA 94) and after a couple of minutes England had conceeded a goal?Quincel said:Got to be gutting when you turn up to a San Marino match and they concede in the first 5 minutes. Isn't the whole point for them to cling on to 0-0 for as long as possible, while the opponents become slowly more nervous of messing up?
Quite something that you can go 1-0 down and be more than 500/1 on Betfair!0 -
So how would a couple, using one family email address, register both their signatures?Benpointer said:
It seems to be the case that duplicates are periodically stripped from the count. I suspect that is an easier way to manage the process, requiring less computer power and improving response times, than searching to email database for every new request... especially for petitions of 5m or more.TudorRose said:
You can use the same email address to register at least two signatures. I've done it (albeit on a different petition).AnotherEngineer said:The only way to test whether shenanigans are involved in this petition is to create a petition against bots and then bot it to h*ll, just to see what happens.
I'd do it but I don't particularly want to meet with the Computer Misuse Act as it might be career limiting. :-)
I suspect that what might be happening is that people are registering their vote two or three times using different emails rather than massive bot abuse, although the number of votes during the night is a little suspicious.
I am only speculating, if someone knows better it would interesting to hear from them.0 -
Yawn.RobD said:
Why should Remain get two chances? The decision to leave was in 2016.Benpointer said:
I am still struggling to understand why Theresa May (or the Cabinet, since they now seem to be in control) don;t take the obvious way out and put the Deal to a HoC vote subject to a confirmatory referendum (Deal versus Revoke).Sean_F said:
If people are forced into a straight choice between Revoke A50/ No Deal, Survation suggests the result would be 51/49, which I think is plausible.twistedfirestopper3 said:
I don't know why you or the likes of Casino on the other side get so worked up by this. You're literally jizzing yer pants every time you mention it .People I know on either side have barely mentioned it, apart from a good friend who posts pro EU stuff on Faceache a lot. If there is a second referendum, I reckon remain will edge it by not much more than leave edged it last time. The country is split down the middle, always has been, always will be.IanB2 said:
His point is that if between one and two million people are prepared to turn up in central London for a demo, it isn't unrealistic to think that two or three times that many are prepared to click and sign an online petition.RobD said:
I'm not sure I follow his point. Is he suggesting that physically going to vote for something is more meaningful? If so, I agree with himTheScreamingEagles said:
https://twitter.com/petefrasermusic/status/1109459409246269440RobD said:
Only a few thousand? You underestimate the fanaticism of some.Benpointer said:Presume it's already been noted that the Revoke Article 50 Petition is now over the 5million mark?
Of course there will be a few thousand fraudulent signatures on there which no doubt completely invalidates it in the eyes of some.
That would surely be worth a try. Bercow would accept it. Labour would find it difficult (not impossible) to whip against but many Labour MPs would abstain or vote for it anyway imho.
Although it wouldn't be my desired outcome, I suspect Deal would win that referendum.0 -
Their 'stance' was doubtless adopted for electoral advantage and I suspect they thought it would never be tested. They should of course have opposed Brexit, on the grounds that a) its supporters tended to that view and b) Brexit is stupid, but of course they preferred to be 'smart' electorally.CD13 said:Mr Punter,
"but it would probably just about pass muster."
Only to those determined to be persuaded.
They can just about wriggle their way round it now, as I indicated, but as you rightly suggest, only the more gullible will be taken in.
Labour's position on this historic matter is hardly more defensible than the Government's.0 -
I know but I kid you not, he genuinely believe his was going to be a wasted vote à la FPTP.notme2 said:
And it was counted at a district council level not constituency...Benpointer said:
I think you'll find that's an opinion not evidence.Sean_F said:
It would be a free hit, a "send them a message" vote.Benpointer said:Sean_F said:
A lot more people would have voted Leave, in round 1, if they knew that it was subject to review.Nemtynakht said:
The problem I have with a second referendum is that it should have been set out prior to the previous vote. If it had I would have voted Leave not Remain, as I would have been able to review before reconfirming.Benpointer said:
Well let's hope he took time off from his long-distance walk to sign it then!IanB2 said:
One Mr N. Farage floated the idea on national television, as I recall.Benpointer said:
Ahahah.IanB2 said:
At just over 4 millionFrancisUrquhart said:
Next biggest was also Brexit related.Benpointer said:
I suspect 5m signatures is a large enough number to influence more than a few MPs. It's now easily the largest parliament petition, I believe. Can't remember the next biggest...Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Pointer, disagree on both counts. I suspect tens or hundreds of thousands of signatures will be fraudulent. That doesn't mean it's invalid.
It also doesn't mean a petition matters more than a vote.
'twas the petition started by a Leaver, BEFORE the 2016 vote, calling for a second referendum, that after 2016 became suddenly popular with Remainers.
Mind you wasn't a second referendum first suggested by several Leavers before the 2016 vote too?
I have to admit it the whole Brexit project has been a wonderfully run exercise in self-destruction by the Brexiteers. Now they are destroying the project itself.
Maybe Vladimir has decided it's served its purpose?
And your evidence for that is?....
One of my colleagues confessed he had voted Leave as a protest safe in the knowledge that it wouldn't count because his constituency was overwhelmingly Remain. He was genuinely shocked and surprised when I told him his constituency was irrelevant.0 -
All this garbage about honouring manifestos .
The Tories didn’t get a majority so their manjfesto wasn’t endorsed , the same for Labour .0 -
Not sure they can. I am genuinely intrigued now.TudorRose said:
So how would a couple, using one family email address, register both their signatures?Benpointer said:
It seems to be the case that duplicates are periodically stripped from the count. I suspect that is an easier way to manage the process, requiring less computer power and improving response times, than searching to email database for every new request... especially for petitions of 5m or more.TudorRose said:
You can use the same email address to register at least two signatures. I've done it (albeit on a different petition).AnotherEngineer said:The only way to test whether shenanigans are involved in this petition is to create a petition against bots and then bot it to h*ll, just to see what happens.
I'd do it but I don't particularly want to meet with the Computer Misuse Act as it might be career limiting. :-)
I suspect that what might be happening is that people are registering their vote two or three times using different emails rather than massive bot abuse, although the number of votes during the night is a little suspicious.
I am only speculating, if someone knows better it would interesting to hear from them.0 -
So no answer to the valid question then._Anazina_ said:
Yawn.RobD said:
Why should Remain get two chances? The decision to leave was in 2016.Benpointer said:
I am still struggling to understand why Theresa May (or the Cabinet, since they now seem to be in control) don;t take the obvious way out and put the Deal to a HoC vote subject to a confirmatory referendum (Deal versus Revoke).Sean_F said:
If people are forced into a straight choice between Revoke A50/ No Deal, Survation suggests the result would be 51/49, which I think is plausible.twistedfirestopper3 said:
I don't know why you or the likes of Casino on the other side get so worked up by this. You're literally jizzing yer pants every time you mention it .People I know on either side have barely mentioned it, apart from a good friend who posts pro EU stuff on Faceache a lot. If there is a second referendum, I reckon remain will edge it by not much more than leave edged it last time. The country is split down the middle, always has been, always will be.IanB2 said:
His point is that if between one and two million people are prepared to turn up in central London for a demo, it isn't unrealistic to think that two or three times that many are prepared to click and sign an online petition.RobD said:
I'm not sure I follow his point. Is he suggesting that physically going to vote for something is more meaningful? If so, I agree with himTheScreamingEagles said:
https://twitter.com/petefrasermusic/status/1109459409246269440RobD said:
Only a few thousand? You underestimate the fanaticism of some.Benpointer said:Presume it's already been noted that the Revoke Article 50 Petition is now over the 5million mark?
Of course there will be a few thousand fraudulent signatures on there which no doubt completely invalidates it in the eyes of some.
That would surely be worth a try. Bercow would accept it. Labour would find it difficult (not impossible) to whip against but many Labour MPs would abstain or vote for it anyway imho.
Although it wouldn't be my desired outcome, I suspect Deal would win that referendum.0 -
And probably 3 to 5 times that number who would gladly take part in the the demo, but live too far away to take part or have other obligations that they just can't avoid.IanB2 said:
His point is that if between one and two million people are prepared to turn up in central London for a demo, it isn't unrealistic to think that two or three times that many are prepared to click and sign an online petition.RobD said:
I'm not sure I follow his point. Is he suggesting that physically going to vote for something is more meaningful? If so, I agree with himTheScreamingEagles said:
https://twitter.com/petefrasermusic/status/1109459409246269440RobD said:
Only a few thousand? You underestimate the fanaticism of some.Benpointer said:Presume it's already been noted that the Revoke Article 50 Petition is now over the 5million mark?
Of course there will be a few thousand fraudulent signatures on there which no doubt completely invalidates it in the eyes of some.0 -
Today's papers are strange. Peter Hitchens sounds like a leftie, bemoaning the possible rise of a Donald Trump figure in Britain. On the other hand Dan Hodges is claiming Brexit is going to be betrayed.0
-
To be honest Richard I have spent all day in the pub (and am still here)!Richard_Tyndall said:
So no answer to the valid question then._Anazina_ said:
Yawn.RobD said:
Why should Remain get two chances? The decision to leave was in 2016.Benpointer said:
I am still struggling to understand why Theresa May (or the Cabinet, since they now seem to be in control) don;t take the obvious way out and put the Deal to a HoC vote subject to a confirmatory referendum (Deal versus Revoke).Sean_F said:
If people are forced into a straight choice between Revoke A50/ No Deal, Survation suggests the result would be 51/49, which I think is plausible.twistedfirestopper3 said:
I don't know why you or the likes of Casino on the other side get so worked up by this. You're literally jizzing yer pants every time you mention it .People I know on either side have barely mentioned it, apart from a good friend who posts pro EU stuff on Faceache a lot. If there is a second referendum, I reckon remain will edge it by not much more than leave edged it last time. The country is split down the middle, always has been, always will be.IanB2 said:
His point is that if between one and two million people are prepared to turn up in central London for a demo, it isn't unrealistic to think that two or three times that many are prepared to click and sign an online petition.RobD said:
I'm not sure I follow his point. Is he suggesting that physically going to vote for something is more meaningful? If so, I agree with himTheScreamingEagles said:
https://twitter.com/petefrasermusic/status/1109459409246269440RobD said:
Only a few thousand? You underestimate the fanaticism of some.Benpointer said:Presume it's already been noted that the Revoke Article 50 Petition is now over the 5million mark?
Of course there will be a few thousand fraudulent signatures on there which no doubt completely invalidates it in the eyes of some.
That would surely be worth a try. Bercow would accept it. Labour would find it difficult (not impossible) to whip against but many Labour MPs would abstain or vote for it anyway imho.
Although it wouldn't be my desired outcome, I suspect Deal would win that referendum.
So, I suppose, the answer is no!0 -
If she announced a general election tomorrow could 2nd May still be viable?Danny565 said:0 -
That comment reveals a hell of a lot more about you than the blokes in the photo._Anazina_ said:Some prize gammon in the lead picture
0 -
Hitch is just strange full stop. And despite saying years ago we should leave the EU he's always been lukewarm about the whole thing.AndyJS said:Today's papers are strange. Peter Hitchens sounds like a leftie, bemoaning the possible rise of a Donald Trump figure in Britain. On the other hand Dan Hodges is claiming Brexit is going to be betrayed.
Dan is one of those Remainers that's gone to the dark side over the past three years as William would say. 0 -
The answer is manifold and been addressed on PB ad nauseam.Richard_Tyndall said:
So no answer to the valid question then._Anazina_ said:
Yawn.RobD said:
Why should Remain get two chances? The decision to leave was in 2016.Benpointer said:
I am still struggling to understand why Theresa May (or the Cabinet, since they now seem to be in control) don;t take the obvious way out and put the Deal to a HoC vote subject to a confirmatory referendum (Deal versus Revoke).Sean_F said:
If people are forced into a straight choice between Revoke A50/ No Deal, Survation suggests the result would be 51/49, which I think is plausible.twistedfirestopper3 said:
I don't know why you or the likes of Casino on the other side get so worked up by this. You're literally jizzing yer pants every time you mention it .People I know on either side have barely mentioned it, apart from a good friend who posts pro EU stuff on Faceache a lot. If there is a second referendum, I reckon remain will edge it by not much more than leave edged it last time. The country is split down the middle, always has been, always will be.IanB2 said:
His point is that if between one and two million people are prepared to turn up in central London for a demo, it isn't unrealistic to think that two or three times that many are prepared to click and sign an online petition.RobD said:
I'm not sure I follow his point. Is he suggesting that physically going to vote for something is more meaningful? If so, I agree with himTheScreamingEagles said:
https://twitter.com/petefrasermusic/status/1109459409246269440RobD said:
Only a few thousand? You underestimate the fanaticism of some.Benpointer said:
Of course there will be a few thousand fraudulent signatures on there which no doubt completely invalidates it in the eyes of some.
That would surely be worth a try. Bercow would accept it. Labour would find it difficult (not impossible) to whip against but many Labour MPs would abstain or vote for it anyway imho.
Although it wouldn't be my desired outcome, I suspect Deal would win that referendum.
Example answers include:
Leave have been unable to agree an approach amongst themselves.
Leaving has not been as straightforward as promised; we don't hold all the cards, the EU are not falling over themselves to do a deal.
Prominent Leavers proposed a confirmatory referendum.
Times change.
I could go on but no answers will satisfy you.0 -
There are other factors too. There is a physical limit to the number of people Central London can take. I got as far as Whitehall before I turned back because of the people-jam. Many others were doing the same.eristdoof said:
And probably 3 to 5 times that number who would gladly take part in the the demo, but live too far away to take part or have other obligations that they just can't avoid.IanB2 said:
His point is that if between one and two million people are prepared to turn up in central London for a demo, it isn't unrealistic to think that two or three times that many are prepared to click and sign an online petition.RobD said:
I'm not sure I follow his point. Is he suggesting that physically going to vote for something is more meaningful? If so, I agree with himTheScreamingEagles said:
https://twitter.com/petefrasermusic/status/1109459409246269440RobD said:
Only a few thousand? You underestimate the fanaticism of some.Benpointer said:Presume it's already been noted that the Revoke Article 50 Petition is now over the 5million mark?
Of course there will be a few thousand fraudulent signatures on there which no doubt completely invalidates it in the eyes of some.
Concerns about violence would have put some off too. I dissuaded my other half and her dog from coming because from past experience I know these things can spin out of control and I didn't want her exposed to the risk. We were sitting targets for any would-be terrorist, but happily it all seems to have passed off without incident.0 -
12th April is not a definitive cut off date like 29th March was supposed to be....Big_G_NorthWales said:0 -
Oy vey! Israel beating Austria.0
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It's a good point. If there is a further demo I'd hope it is run as a series of parallel demos in major cities across the UK. I doubt London can really cope with much more than a million protesrs on the streets; a protes spread over, say, London, Edinburgh, Cardiff, Belfast, Manchester, Birmingham and Bristol could easily see 2-3 million on the streets.eristdoof said:
And probably 3 to 5 times that number who would gladly take part in the the demo, but live too far away to take part or have other obligations that they just can't avoid.IanB2 said:
His point is that if between one and two million people are prepared to turn up in central London for a demo, it isn't unrealistic to think that two or three times that many are prepared to click and sign an online petition.RobD said:
I'm not sure I follow his point. Is he suggesting that physically going to vote for something is more meaningful? If so, I agree with himTheScreamingEagles said:
https://twitter.com/petefrasermusic/status/1109459409246269440RobD said:
Only a few thousand? You underestimate the fanaticism of some.Benpointer said:Presume it's already been noted that the Revoke Article 50 Petition is now over the 5million mark?
Of course there will be a few thousand fraudulent signatures on there which no doubt completely invalidates it in the eyes of some.
(Apologies if I've missed your preferred city out!)0 -
Anyway, my daughter has just traced our family to 1765 in Dyserth in North Wales and remarkably his great grandfather, (so many times removed), christian name was Benjamin, just as her son is, and we had no idea at all
What a strange world we live in0 -
Wouldn't be very representative though. The big cities were mostly pro-Remain.Benpointer said:
It's a good point. If there is a further demo I'd hope it is run as a series of parallel demos in major cities across the UK. I doubt London can really cope with much more than a million protesrs on the streets; a protes spread over, say, London, Edinburgh, Cardiff, Belfast, Manchester, Birmingham and Bristol could easily see 2-3 million on the streets.eristdoof said:
And probably 3 to 5 times that number who would gladly take part in the the demo, but live too far away to take part or have other obligations that they just can't avoid.IanB2 said:
His point is that if between one and two million people are prepared to turn up in central London for a demo, it isn't unrealistic to think that two or three times that many are prepared to click and sign an online petition.RobD said:
I'm not sure I follow his point. Is he suggesting that physically going to vote for something is more meaningful? If so, I agree with himTheScreamingEagles said:
https://twitter.com/petefrasermusic/status/1109459409246269440RobD said:
Only a few thousand? You underestimate the fanaticism of some.Benpointer said:Presume it's already been noted that the Revoke Article 50 Petition is now over the 5million mark?
Of course there will be a few thousand fraudulent signatures on there which no doubt completely invalidates it in the eyes of some.
(Apologies if I've missed your preferred city out!)0 -
What would it matter if every single Remain voter from 2016 marched in London as well as signed the petition? I wouldn't see a reason for people who want the referendum vote overturned to get excited about it, nor Leave voters who want it respected to be worried.Peter_the_Punter said:
There are other factors too. There is a physical limit to the number of people Central London can take. I got as far as Whitehall before I turned back because of the people-jam. Many others were doing the same.eristdoof said:
And probably 3 to 5 times that number who would gladly take part in the the demo, but live too far away to take part or have other obligations that they just can't avoid.IanB2 said:
His point is that if between one and two million people are prepared to turn up in central London for a demo, it isn't unrealistic to think that two or three times that many are prepared to click and sign an online petition.RobD said:
I'm not sure I follow his point. Is he suggesting that physically going to vote for something is more meaningful? If so, I agree with himTheScreamingEagles said:
https://twitter.com/petefrasermusic/status/1109459409246269440RobD said:
Only a few thousand? You underestimate the fanaticism of some.Benpointer said:Presume it's already been noted that the Revoke Article 50 Petition is now over the 5million mark?
Of course there will be a few thousand fraudulent signatures on there which no doubt completely invalidates it in the eyes of some.
Concerns about violence would have put some off too. I dissuaded my other half and her dog from coming because from past experience I know these things can spin out of control and I didn't want her exposed to the risk. We were sitting targets for any would-be terrorist, but happily it all seems to have passed off without incident.0 -
I thought 22nd May was the deadline if a new plan emerged... and further extensions would be possible.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Still trying to catch up so I may be wrong.0 -
If the vast majority of those marching/signing voted remain anyway, what does it really achieve? Sure, it's a great effort, but really, why? I say this as an enthusiastic FBU marcher. It makes you feel good and is a cracking day out, but I was never under the illusion it meant anything.Benpointer said:
It's a good point. If there is a further demo I'd hope it is run as a series of parallel demos in major cities across the UK. I doubt London can really cope with much more than a million protesrs on the streets; a protes spread over, say, London, Edinburgh, Cardiff, Belfast, Manchester, Birmingham and Bristol could easily see 2-3 million on the streets.eristdoof said:
And probably 3 to 5 times that number who would gladly take part in the the demo, but live too far away to take part or have other obligations that they just can't avoid.IanB2 said:
His point is that if between one and two million people are prepared to turn up in central London for a demo, it isn't unrealistic to think that two or three times that many are prepared to click and sign an online petition.RobD said:
I'm not sure I follow his point. Is he suggesting that physically going to vote for something is more meaningful? If so, I agree with himTheScreamingEagles said:
https://twitter.com/petefrasermusic/status/1109459409246269440RobD said:
Only a few thousand? You underestimate the fanaticism of some.Benpointer said:Presume it's already been noted that the Revoke Article 50 Petition is now over the 5million mark?
Of course there will be a few thousand fraudulent signatures on there which no doubt completely invalidates it in the eyes of some.
(Apologies if I've missed your preferred city out!)0 -
Are you Theresa May in disguise? You seem to have her knack for catching the zeitgeist.isam said:
What would it matter if every single Remain voter from 2016 marched in London as well as signed the petition? I wouldn't see a reason for people who want the referendum vote overturned to get excited about it, nor Leave voters who want it respected to be worried.Peter_the_Punter said:
There are other factors too. There is a physical limit to the number of people Central London can take. I got as far as Whitehall before I turned back because of the people-jam. Many others were doing the same.eristdoof said:
And probably 3 to 5 times that number who would gladly take part in the the demo, but live too far away to take part or have other obligations that they just can't avoid.IanB2 said:
His point is that if between one and two million people are prepared to turn up in central London for a demo, it isn't unrealistic to think that two or three times that many are prepared to click and sign an online petition.RobD said:
I'm not sure I follow his point. Is he suggesting that physically going to vote for something is more meaningful? If so, I agree with himTheScreamingEagles said:
https://twitter.com/petefrasermusic/status/1109459409246269440RobD said:
Only a few thousand? You underestimate the fanaticism of some.Benpointer said:Presume it's already been noted that the Revoke Article 50 Petition is now over the 5million mark?
Of course there will be a few thousand fraudulent signatures on there which no doubt completely invalidates it in the eyes of some.
Concerns about violence would have put some off too. I dissuaded my other half and her dog from coming because from past experience I know these things can spin out of control and I didn't want her exposed to the risk. We were sitting targets for any would-be terrorist, but happily it all seems to have passed off without incident.0 -
Yes 22nd May is the main date... But even that isn't totally definitive.Benpointer said:
I thought 22nd May was the deadline if a new plan emerged... and further extensions would be possible.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Still trying to catch up so I may be wrong.
That's why everyone said on Friday night that the EU had blinked for the first time as they removed the "cliff edge" associated with A50 (something they said they'd never do)0 -
It is without agreeing to taking part in the EU elections in May. That is the reason for the dateGIN1138 said:
12th April is not a definitive cut off date like 29th March was supposed to be....Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am somewhat surprised how few posters have taken on this essential part of the new date and few have even commented on how the populace would take to agreeing to and participating in the EU campaigns in just three weeks time0 -
There is no real answer to the question, which is valid. Sure, Brexit has been utterly discredited as a project. The vote was won on a false prospectus and the margin of victory was narrow. The execution has been utterly, unbelievably, hopeless. Public opinion has almost certainly shifted against it. Proceeding with Brexit will probably destroy whichever party implements it for a generation, which is why the Tories now look so terrified. But the vote was won, and if you think that is the most important thing then the point is unanswerable. Personally I think the arguments against proceeding with Brexit now narrowly outweigh the powerful democratic case for proceeding, but I am under no illusion about how fucked we are now no matter what we do.Richard_Tyndall said:
So no answer to the valid question then.0 -
I'm not. But what is the zeitgeist? People who never wanted to leave, still dont want to. So what? Votes aren't worth more than 1 if you say you'll sulk when you loseBenpointer said:
Are you Theresa May in disguise? You seem to have her knack for catching the zeitgeist.isam said:
What would it matter if every single Remain voter from 2016 marched in London as well as signed the petition? I wouldn't see a reason for people who want the referendum vote overturned to get excited about it, nor Leave voters who want it respected to be worried.Peter_the_Punter said:
There are other factors too. There is a physical limit to the number of people Central London can take. I got as far as Whitehall before I turned back because of the people-jam. Many others were doing the same.eristdoof said:
And probably 3 to 5 times that number who would gladly take part in the the demo, but live too far away to take part or have other obligations that they just can't avoid.IanB2 said:
His point is that if between one and two million people are prepared to turn up in central London for a demo, it isn't unrealistic to think that two or three times that many are prepared to click and sign an online petition.RobD said:
I'm not sure I follow his point. Is he suggesting that physically going to vote for something is more meaningful? If so, I agree with himTheScreamingEagles said:
https://twitter.com/petefrasermusic/status/1109459409246269440RobD said:
Only a few thousand? You underestimate the fanaticism of some.Benpointer said:Presume it's already been noted that the Revoke Article 50 Petition is now over the 5million mark?
Of course there will be a few thousand fraudulent signatures on there which no doubt completely invalidates it in the eyes of some.
Concerns about violence would have put some off too. I dissuaded my other half and her dog from coming because from past experience I know these things can spin out of control and I didn't want her exposed to the risk. We were sitting targets for any would-be terrorist, but happily it all seems to have passed off without incident.0 -
I'm sure we're all shocked to learn that the party supporting the military in Thailand has won most votes, when it was expected to come third.0
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Granted the EU elections are a complicating factor...Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is without agreeing to taking part in the EU elections in May. That is the reason for the dateGIN1138 said:
12th April is not a definitive cut off date like 29th March was supposed to be....Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am somewhat surprised how few posters have taken on this essential part of the new date and few have even commented on how the populace would take to agreeing to and participating in the EU campaigns in just three weeks time0 -
What do we think would happen in a snap GE between a May Deal otherwise No Deal TM and a (Fantasy) Corbyn Deal otherwise Revoke JC?
I'd be bloody terrified.0 -
No. Further extensions require our participation in the EU elections commencing th 12th April otherwise the EU elections would be void. The date was chosen by the EU for this reason. The 22nd May is the new 29th March date should TM deal passBenpointer said:
I thought 22nd May was the deadline if a new plan emerged... and further extensions would be possible.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Still trying to catch up so I may be wrong.
0 -
Big_G_NorthWales said:
I have 3 e mail addreses and my wife has 2 and no doubt I could create many more if I could have wanted to try to influence the petition. But I just could not be botheredTudorRose said:
You can use the same email address to register at least two signatures. I've done it (albeit on a different petition).AnotherEngineer said:The only way to test whether shenanigans are involved in this petition is to create a petition against bots and then bot it to h*ll, just to see what happens.
I'd do it but I don't particularly want to meet with the Computer Misuse Act as it might be career limiting. :-)
I suspect that what might be happening is that people are registering their vote two or three times using different emails rather than massive bot abuse, although the number of votes during the night is a little suspicious.
I suspect the software used to detect fraudulent activity is more sophisticated than I thought - more akin to the software techniques used by banks to block fraudulent transactions. Not perfect but pretty good at detecting abuse.
Checks could include names, emails, postcodes, IP addresses, timing of signature requests, etc. etc. And specifically, looking at combinations of all of these.
If so it means the HoC Petitions Committee would be unwise to release details of their checking process as that just helps the Russians fraudsters.
The hint is here...
https://twitter.com/HoCpetitions/status/11091537411802275840 -
Doorstep anecdata after two 3-hour stints this weekend: Brexit is really cutting through as the decisive issue in the utterly unrelated local council elections here in deepest Surrey. Every third voter spontaneously mentions it as influencing their votes, and virtually nobody is talking about local issues. I had three switchers today from the Tories purely on this issue; conversely I lost a lifelong Labour voter who will only vote UKIP/Brexit in future. Overall it's clearly hurting the Tories more, though if they make a convincing Brexit happen they might well pull these people back.
It's a pity as local issues deserve consideration, but as things stand the locals (here, anyway) are going to be a displacement referendum.0 -
The EU would be barmy to allow us to vote in the elections before we have resolved the next few months. There would be a massive vote for anyone but the establishment parties. Hell, I'll vote for the most batshit crazy candidate I can find. I honestly think the EU must be a bit queasy about us participating.GIN1138 said:
Granted the EU elections are a complicating factor...Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is without agreeing to taking part in the EU elections in May. That is the reason for the dateGIN1138 said:
12th April is not a definitive cut off date like 29th March was supposed to be....Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am somewhat surprised how few posters have taken on this essential part of the new date and few have even commented on how the populace would take to agreeing to and participating in the EU campaigns in just three weeks time0 -
As I understand it under the FTPA if there is a 2/3 majority in the HOC for an election by Tuesday then May 2 is viable but if the government loses a VONC then there are 2 weeks for an alternative to be formed before the election can be called, which means May 16 is the earliest. But I'd be interested if anyone knows different. I've got tickets for Hamilton on May 9 so I hope I'm right!GIN1138 said:
If she announced a general election tomorrow could 2nd May still be viable?Danny565 said:0 -
I’m up the road in Woking and will be voting Lib Dem due to “local issues.”NickPalmer said:Doorstep anecdata after two 3-hour stints this weekend: Brexit is really cutting through as the decisive issue in the utterly unrelated local council elections here in deepest Surrey. Every third voter spontaneously mentions it as influencing their votes, and virtually nobody is talking about local issues. I had three switchers today from the Tories purely on this issue; conversely I lost a lifelong Labour voter who will only vote UKIP/Brexit in future. Overall it's clearly hurting the Tories more, though if they make a convincing Brexit happen they might well pull these people back.
It's a pity as local issues deserve consideration, but as things stand the locals (here, anyway) are going to be a displacement referendum.0 -
They have not removed the cliff edge. It happens on the 12th April unless we agree to take part in the EU elections and mandated by the HOC or TM deal passes in which case we leave on the 22nd MayGIN1138 said:
Yes 22nd May is the main date... But even that isn't totally definitive.Benpointer said:
I thought 22nd May was the deadline if a new plan emerged... and further extensions would be possible.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Still trying to catch up so I may be wrong.
That's why everyone said on Friday night that the EU had blinked for the first time as they removed the "cliff edge" associated with A50 (something they said they'd never do)0 -
But they have moved the cliff edge, which is significant in itself.Big_G_NorthWales said:
They have not removed the cliff edge. It happens on the 12th April unless we agree to take part in the EU elections and mandated by the HOC or TM deal passes in which case we leave on the 22nd MayGIN1138 said:
Yes 22nd May is the main date... But even that isn't totally definitive.Benpointer said:
I thought 22nd May was the deadline if a new plan emerged... and further extensions would be possible.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Still trying to catch up so I may be wrong.
That's why everyone said on Friday night that the EU had blinked for the first time as they removed the "cliff edge" associated with A50 (something they said they'd never do)0 -
I am afraid they are much more than that and are sliding under the radar of the media who should be explaining it everytime they talk of the new dates. But why should we be surprised, the media and journalists have a lot to answer for in this debacleGIN1138 said:
Granted the EU elections are a complicating factor...Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is without agreeing to taking part in the EU elections in May. That is the reason for the dateGIN1138 said:
12th April is not a definitive cut off date like 29th March was supposed to be....Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am somewhat surprised how few posters have taken on this essential part of the new date and few have even commented on how the populace would take to agreeing to and participating in the EU campaigns in just three weeks time0 -
And for much the same reason, they want us to leave.twistedfirestopper3 said:
The EU would be barmy to allow us to vote in the elections before we have resolved the next few months. There would be a massive vote for anyone but the establishment parties. Hell, I'll vote for the most batshit crazy candidate I can find. I honestly think the EU must be a bit queasy about us participating.GIN1138 said:
Granted the EU elections are a complicating factor...Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is without agreeing to taking part in the EU elections in May. That is the reason for the dateGIN1138 said:
12th April is not a definitive cut off date like 29th March was supposed to be....Big_G_NorthWales said:
I am somewhat surprised how few posters have taken on this essential part of the new date and few have even commented on how the populace would take to agreeing to and participating in the EU campaigns in just three weeks time
Imagine if we do remain. It will be your comment about voting for the most batshit crazy candidate, repeated, ad infinitum. If we end up remaining the UK will be a most recalcitrant member, putting hardline anti EU types into positions of power in Westminster and Brussels. Why on earth would the EU want that?0 -
Yes, well, I think it highly likely now that we will be participating in the EU elections.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No. Further extensions require our participation in the EU elections commencing th 12th April otherwise the EU elections would be void. The date was chosen by the EU for this reason. The 22nd May is the new 29th March date should TM deal passBenpointer said:
I thought 22nd May was the deadline if a new plan emerged... and further extensions would be possible.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Still trying to catch up so I may be wrong.
Could be interesting if the #PeoplesVote organisation flex their muscles in any UK EU elections; no party won 5 million votes in the last election.0 -
Individual MPs made individual promises in their campaign literature. Anna Soubry and Dominic Grieve both promised to abide by the result of the referendum. So this is nothing to do with the party manifesto (although they were happy enough to campaign under it) but to do with their personal trustworthiness.nico67 said:All this garbage about honouring manifestos .
The Tories didn’t get a majority so their manjfesto wasn’t endorsed , the same for Labour .0
