politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Labour to launch a decapitation strategy against Clegg?

malcolmg said:

TheWatcher said:

malcolmg said:

CarlottaVance said:

malcolmg said:

CarlottaVance said:

malcolmg said:

Charles said:

malcolmg said:

TheWatcher said:

Charles said:

@malcolmg

Judging by your post today, you are suggesting that the rUK government should continue to pay pensions for Scots post independence?

Just wanted to check I hadn't misunderstood you before I pointed out want a naïve suggestion that is ;-)

Malcolm's in for a surprise.

For all contributions PRE independence yes. Anything less would be theft on a grand scale. Given the huge amounts I have paid in I fully expect them to honour their legal commitments.

Shame you didn't pay them into a dedicated fund then.

Pension liabilities willbe part of the discussion on sharing of net assets, but to expect the UK government to take an uncapped longevity risk is just silly. Can you imagine the future debates in the rUK if they need to cut government spending: whose pension shall we cut? People who can vote for us or people who live in a different country?

Charles I have a substantial dedicated fund thank you very much. The Westminster loot will just be pocket money.

Excellent! Regulated from London?

Who knows it is all in a final salary pension scheme with guaranteed payouts. There are a few hundred K of AVC's which may or may not be in London but they are paid in cash so no issue.

I will accept Sterling as well if not devalued too much.

Jolly good. You may wish to read p75 onwards of the link I posted....to my inaccurate eye it rather looks like protection of DB schemes is rather predicated on there bring a currency union.....

Mine is a private sector pension so no issue. Interesting document though.

So who will protect private sector DB schemes in an independent Scotland?

I assume a new Scottish pension agency similar to the UK one. Given mine is guaranteed by one of the biggest corporations in the world and the pension scheme is fully funded it will be of no concern.

I also have a DB pension from one of the worlds great corporations - but the fund itself is a UK entity "The Global Corporation(UK) Ltd Pension Scheme" - given most pensions are organised on a country by country basis it is probable that yours is too. It will face issues (which may be easily surmounted) with the sundering of the UK.

Mr. G, it's a deadly sin. But then, some suggest Salmond is guilty of Pride [I would not make the Gluttony/Sloth accusation as he's on a diet].

CarlottaVance said:

It will face issues (which may be easily surmounted) with the sundering of the UK.

I imagine malcolm will only welcome the potentially stricter funding requirements for cross-border schemes. His benefits would be even safer.

Neil said:

TheWatcher said:

malcolmg said:

CarlottaVance said:

malcolmg said:

CarlottaVance said:

malcolmg said:

Charles said:

malcolmg said:

TheWatcher said:

Charles said:

@malcolmg

Judging by your post today, you are suggesting that the rUK government should continue to pay pensions for Scots post independence?

Just wanted to check I hadn't misunderstood you before I pointed out want a naïve suggestion that is ;-)

Malcolm's in for a surprise.

For all contributions PRE independence yes. Anything less would be theft on a grand scale. Given the huge amounts I have paid in I fully expect them to honour their legal commitments.

Shame you didn't pay them into a dedicated fund then.

Pension liabilities willbe part of the discussion on sharing of net assets, but to expect the UK government to take an uncapped longevity risk is just silly. Can you imagine the future debates in the rUK if they need to cut government spending: whose pension shall we cut? People who can vote for us or people who live in a different country?

Charles I have a substantial dedicated fund thank you very much. The Westminster loot will just be pocket money.

Excellent! Regulated from London?

Who knows it is all in a final salary pension scheme with guaranteed payouts. There are a few hundred K of AVC's which may or may not be in London but they are paid in cash so no issue.

I will accept Sterling as well if not devalued too much.

Jolly good. You may wish to read p75 onwards of the link I posted....to my inaccurate eye it rather looks like protection of DB schemes is rather predicated on there bring a currency union.....

Mine is a private sector pension so no issue. Interesting document though.

So who will protect private sector DB schemes in an independent Scotland?

The same people who protect them in the UK today - private sector employers.

UK DB pensions are currently regulated by the Pensions Regulator based in deepest Brighton. They are sponsored by private sector employers - different thing. Again this would be another thing tied up with any split in general and currency question in particular. I couldn't see the current Pension Regulator covering a non currency unioned Scotland anymore than he covers Belgian pensions now. Were a union to be agreed ( unlikely though I believe that is) present arrangements may continue in some form provided Scottish law did not diverge from rUK.

CarlottaVance said:

malcolmg said:

TheWatcher said:

malcolmg said:

CarlottaVance said:

malcolmg said:

CarlottaVance said:

malcolmg said:

Charles said:

malcolmg said:

TheWatcher said:

Charles said:

@malcolmg

that is ;-)

Malcolm's in for a surprise.

For all contributions PRE independence yes. Anything less would be theft on a grand scale. Given the huge amounts I have paid in I fully expect them to honour their legal commitments.

can vote for us or people who live in a different country?

Charles I have a substantial dedicated fund thank you very much. The Westminster loot will just be pocket money.

Excellent! Regulated from London?

I will accept Sterling as well if not devalued too much.

Jolly good. You may wish to read p75 onwards of the link I posted....to my inaccurate eye it rather looks like protection of DB schemes is rather predicated on there bring a currency union.....

Mine is a private sector pension so no issue. Interesting document though.

So who will protect private sector DB schemes in an independent Scotland?

I assume a new Scottish pension agency similar to the UK one. Given mine is guaranteed by one of the biggest corporations in the world and the pension scheme is fully funded it will be of no concern.

I also have a DB pension from one of the worlds great corporations - but the fund itself is a UK entity "The Global Corporation(UK) Ltd Pension Scheme" - given most pensions are organised on a country by country basis it is probable that yours is too. It will face issues (which may be easily surmounted) with the sundering of the UK.

Yes it is in a UK scheme, guaranteed by the corporation for enough year sat least for me to get full whack. Imagine the issues if any will be on underfunded schemes.
I have option of going early in less than a year with full pension so worst case I could get out before 2016. Though I doubt I will want to stop working as early unless forced to.

Neil said:

CarlottaVance said:

It will face issues (which may be easily surmounted) with the sundering of the UK.

I imagine malcolm will only welcome the potentially stricter funding requirements for cross-border schemes. His benefits would be even safer.

In Malcolm's case I'm sure it will be fine (as indeed mine!) but the more stringent funding requirements may push some marginal schemes over the edge - and since the SNP plan for protecting Scottish DB pensions is predicated on a currency union it may require a rethink......

Allister Heath doing his bit to make every "shrieking Unionist" seem like paragons of optimism:

An independent Scotland risks becoming eurozone mark 2
The SNP is a muddled, confused blend of big state socialists, nationalists, populists and the odd genuine capitalist that will make a disastrous hash of it all

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/10647228/An-independent-Scotland-risks-becoming-eurozone-mark-2.html

new thread

JosiasJessop said:

The best thing for me was a wooden case containing rock samples from South Devon used by Brunel. They had names like "D.31 Elvan Smooth Granite" and "D9. Babbicome Quarry". I'd like to think (and with good reason) they were collected as samples, polished, and used by the distant designers of structures.

Either that or Brunel was a fan of William Smith. ;-)

It was sad to see the Flying Scotsman in bits, but perhaps that's how it should remain to memorialise the hideous project management that has bedevilled its overhaul.

And aside from that, a highlight were the early examples of rails for plateways and flangeways, complete with the stone blocks. That's my sort of era.

Three A4's were there (it was the week before the Great Gathering), and I yawned. LNER rubbish. ;-)

Well, snap! That was my favourite thing too at the National Railway Museum - the Brunel sample case from the South Devon Railway and other GWR-associated lines. They were indeed, as far as I know, intended for that purpose. I'm very impressed you found it - I had heard about it before but it took a little inquiring from the curators through the (very nice) library to find it.

Brunel did have some association with early geologists, and obviously needed to know his Smithian geology, certainly for the London-Bristol transect and Box Tunnel above all, but I think he was too busy most of the time ...

I will differ on the Gresley Pacifics. But ever been to Cockenzie Harbour? (to the E of Edinburgh.) The blocks are no longer where they were, but some can be seen in the adjacent walls - a few years ago, one wall had partly collapsed, so one could see how some of the blocks were drilled for the Tranent-Cockenzie Waggonway.

JosiasJessop said:

[edited]

Great minds think alike. I even took several photos. ;-)

I've been to Cockenzie on several occasions, but wasn't aware of the blocks. I'll keep my eye out next time I'm up there. But my main love are the early Cornish and Midlands lines, such as the Cromford and High Peak, Little Eaton tramway or the Poldice line.

As an aside, when I was studying geological engineering I designed a rather poor wooden portal frame for fun (wood is not ideal for the purpose), and the modern tables of wood strength were allegedly based on data derived by Brunel's team for the Cornish viaducts. All that had been altered over 150 years were the units.

I've no idea if that's true, but it would make sense for him to have calculated the strengths for design purposes. I get the impression it was much more a result of trial and error before that century.

The Cockenzie tramway line runs into the harbour on the east side - more or less N-S on a line with the east side of the harbour, West Harbour Road approximates. Old maps on www.nls.uk should give it and I'm sure some websites do. The rails etc on the harbour piers had gone by the time I was old enough to be interested and look. The blocks were in walls either side but a look on Google Earth shows considerable tidying and redevelopment - so no idea what can be seen. The centre of this shot is a good place to try, working down to the harbour

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=cockenzie&ie=UTF-8&ei=i8oDU77eDY2U0QWCjYDgDQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ

ON Brunel I recently treated myself to this book (or at least an earlier edition of it, I'm slightly uncertain if it is the same book, the one I have is definitely this http://www.transportdiversions.com/publicationshow.asp?pubid=6115)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Brunels-Timber-Bridges-Viaducts-Brian/dp/0711032181/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1392756883&sr=8-1&keywords=brunel+viaducts

which might be worth a look for you sometime. I hsve fished it out as i was recently rereading it. It has remarks on general design principles as well as Brunelian timber all over E & W. It does seem that his test data survive though not apparently specific design calculatons for individual structures.

JosiasJessop said:

Carnyx said:

The Cockenzie tramway line runs into the harbour on the east side - more or less N-S on a line with the east side of the harbour, West Harbour Road approximates. Old maps on www.nls.uk should give it and I'm sure some websites do. The rails etc on the harbour piers had gone by the time I was old enough to be interested and look. The blocks were in walls either side but a look on Google Earth shows considerable tidying and redevelopment - so no idea what can be seen. The centre of this shot is a good place to try, working down to the harbour

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=cockenzie&ie=UTF-8&ei=i8oDU77eDY2U0QWCjYDgDQ&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ

ON Brunel I recently treated myself to this book (or at least an earlier edition of it, I'm slightly uncertain if it is the same book, the one I have is definitely this http://www.transportdiversions.com/publicationshow.asp?pubid=6115)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Brunels-Timber-Bridges-Viaducts-Brian/dp/0711032181/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1392756883&sr=8-1&keywords=brunel+viaducts

which might be worth a look for you sometime. I hsve fished it out as i was recently rereading it. It has remarks on general design principles as well as Brunelian timber all over E & W. It does seem that his test data survive though not apparently specific design calculatons for individual structures.

Thanks for that. I'd forgotten that the Tranent line was actually used in the 1745 Rebellion. Now that was an early railway!

And again, thanks for the link to the book. It's very much the sort of thing I'm interested in. It's conversations like this that makes me regret never having gone into civ eng as a career.

If you're anything like me, you might enjoy perusing the following books:
https://archive.org/details/railwaytunnelli01gripgoog
and
https://archive.org/details/practicaltunnel00clargoog

Rising, please, rising - rebellion is too value laden for modern Scottish historians ... but many thanks for the books, I will have a look!