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Somewhat off topic I do wonder what the reaction of all the younger generation to the EU will be when the full implications of the EU having passed the new copyright laws become clear. Blaming the EU for no more YouTube or memes might make some of the younger generation think twice about their Europhilia.
YouTube have made clear that they think the only way they will be able to abide by the new laws will be to block access to YouTube from EU countries. Many other platforms are facing the same dilemma. If the biggest video hosting network in the world doesn't think it will be able to operate under the new rules there is really no chance any other provider will.0 -
I feel sorry for fans of Spurs, a transfer ban and a stadium ban for this season.Scrapheap_as_was said:
Sad news..... such transfer bans are of little import to we spurs fans of course.TheScreamingEagles said:Could not happen to a nicer team.
https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1098880966553202689
When does Shite Hart Lane II open?
I had tickets for the first match at the new stadium.0 -
It might be true then.Dura_Ace said:
This has been written on here once a week since September 2015. It'll probably still be getting an airing when Corbo is in his second term as PM.Harris_Tweed said:I foresee a speedy, but also probably sustained and terminal decline in Corbyn's popularity (and Labour while he's leader) after this week.
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FPT - the ERG are the muppets.
I think the most likely course now is May’s deal falls, A50 is extended and we end up revoking either by referendum or unilateral parliamentary action.
I think Parliament and the EU will do everything possible to avoid No Deal, so it won’t happen even if it looks like it will with 48 hours to go.0 -
It does sound exciting. I might even buy it if it has good graphics.Philip_Thompson said:I'd sign up for Libertarian Pirate Island
But hopefully the 'Libertarian' aspect is more interesting than its usual meaning of a principled and intellectually coherent position against paying any tax.0 -
Would they? They want defections to stop brexit.TheWhiteRabbit said:
They would prefer defectors anywhere, though.kle4 said:Tiggers cannot even get all defectors to join them. Not sure they can have a long shelf life.
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Austin was the evens clear favourite in the next defection market. I forget if the terms were just any defection (or, indeed, if leaving a party to be independent even counts) or defection specifically to the Tiggers.0
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That seems extremely unlikely, given that Corbyn was by most definitions deeply unpopular up till some point in May 2017.Dura_Ace said:
This has been written on here once a week since September 2015. It'll probably still be getting an airing when Corbo is in his second term as PM.Harris_Tweed said:I foresee a speedy, but also probably sustained and terminal decline in Corbyn's popularity (and Labour while he's leader) after this week.
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Unusually for McDonnell he makes a fair point.Floater said:
And quite a smart political one at this time.0 -
Considering the EU have made it crystal clear they want to leave us legally trapped in the backstop (and I have no faith in the idea we can or will unilaterally terminate that) then revocation would be better for now than ratifying that deal.Casino_Royale said:FPT - the ERG are the muppets.
I think the most likely course now is May’s deal falls, A50 is extended and we end up revoking either by referendum or unilateral parliamentary action.
I think Parliament and the EU will do everything possible to avoid No Deal, so it won’t happen even if it looks like it will with 48 hours to go.
I for one didn't vote to take back control, to still be subject by the backdoor to SM and CU rules while losing all say in them.
We can always reinvoke down the line.0 -
Cooper is steeped in Labour and the Trade Unions -- I think the emotional connection to Labour is too strong for her to jump.
Starmer only joined the Labour Party shortly before being found a plum seat -- I think he could jump.
But, the best advice is always to stay put. Nothing lasts for ever.
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Welcome back to Remain!Philip_Thompson said:
Considering the EU have made it crystal clear they want to leave us legally trapped in the backstop (and I have no faith in the idea we can or will unilaterally terminate that) then revocation would be better for now than ratifying that deal.Casino_Royale said:FPT - the ERG are the muppets.
I think the most likely course now is May’s deal falls, A50 is extended and we end up revoking either by referendum or unilateral parliamentary action.
I think Parliament and the EU will do everything possible to avoid No Deal, so it won’t happen even if it looks like it will with 48 hours to go.
I for one didn't vote to take back control, to still be subject by the backdoor to SM and CU rules while losing all say in them.
We can always reinvoke down the line.0 -
Its where I started off.IanB2 said:
Welcome back to Remain!Philip_Thompson said:
Considering the EU have made it crystal clear they want to leave us legally trapped in the backstop (and I have no faith in the idea we can or will unilaterally terminate that) then revocation would be better for now than ratifying that deal.Casino_Royale said:FPT - the ERG are the muppets.
I think the most likely course now is May’s deal falls, A50 is extended and we end up revoking either by referendum or unilateral parliamentary action.
I think Parliament and the EU will do everything possible to avoid No Deal, so it won’t happen even if it looks like it will with 48 hours to go.
I for one didn't vote to take back control, to still be subject by the backdoor to SM and CU rules while losing all say in them.
We can always reinvoke down the line.0 -
Good: Defectors anywherekle4 said:
Would they? They want defections to stop brexit.TheWhiteRabbit said:
They would prefer defectors anywhere, though.kle4 said:Tiggers cannot even get all defectors to join them. Not sure they can have a long shelf life.
Better: Defections to them
The end of Labour hegemony on the left prevents more opportunities than challenges if you think PV has support there (which it does).0 -
Huge story? Italian politicians available to the highest bidder. Shocking!IanB2 said:Huge story breaking in Italy. Putin agreed to a request from Lega Nord leader Matteo Salvini to covertly finance his Euro election campaign. The plan was to conceal the payment behind an apparently normal business deal.
http://espresso.repubblica.it/inchieste/2019/02/20/news/esclusivo-lega-milioni-russia-1.3318350 -
That is a big part of the Standarsd critique in that by trying to look "tough" to the Conservative faithful, Javid may have ridden roughshod over due process.Peter_the_Punter said:
I couldn't give tuppence about this silly bint from Stratford, but I do care about due process and I want it followed.
Javid is grandstanding, pure and simple.
However, to misquote Helen Lovejoy "won't somebody think of the child?"0 -
I think the Tories are just about keeping a lid on things, doubtless with more quiet words behind the scenes about how we aren't going no deal. But it is widely rumoured another batch from Labour will soon be on its way.kle4 said:Despite the rumours of lots more to come is it really likely. Austin was seen as probable for days now, how many others have been seen as likely and not denied it yet?
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I always had great empathy for Eeyore.AlastairMeeks said:
He's decided Eeyore to sit separately.Morris_Dancer said:Oh, he isn't a Tigger. My mistake.
"Thanks for noticing me".
Just superb.0 -
The law seems to be that Javid has to be first mover here and then it goes to the courts. I'm not sure what other due process could have been followed and Javid didn't create this law.stodge said:
That is a big part of the Standarsd critique in that by trying to look "tough" to the Conservative faithful, Javid may have ridden roughshod over due process.Peter_the_Punter said:
I couldn't give tuppence about this silly bint from Stratford, but I do care about due process and I want it followed.
Javid is grandstanding, pure and simple.
However, to misquote Helen Lovejoy "won't somebody think of the child?"
I would have no objection to the courts being involved earlier rather than just on appeal and the Home Secretary maybe petitioning the courts (who could then decide), but that's not the law.
If the law needs changing now seems a very good time to debate that, but its not the Home Secretaries fault for following existing law as it stands today.0 -
I don't think you should welcome them back.IanB2 said:
Welcome back to Remain!Philip_Thompson said:
Considering the EU have made it crystal clear they want to leave us legally trapped in the backstop (and I have no faith in the idea we can or will unilaterally terminate that) then revocation would be better for now than ratifying that deal.Casino_Royale said:FPT - the ERG are the muppets.
I think the most likely course now is May’s deal falls, A50 is extended and we end up revoking either by referendum or unilateral parliamentary action.
I think Parliament and the EU will do everything possible to avoid No Deal, so it won’t happen even if it looks like it will with 48 hours to go.
I for one didn't vote to take back control, to still be subject by the backdoor to SM and CU rules while losing all say in them.
We can always reinvoke down the line.
They should be left in camps in Hartlepool0 -
But the bidders are usually Italian!Fenman said:
Huge story? Italian politicians available to the highest bidder. Shocking!IanB2 said:Huge story breaking in Italy. Putin agreed to a request from Lega Nord leader Matteo Salvini to covertly finance his Euro election campaign. The plan was to conceal the payment behind an apparently normal business deal.
http://espresso.repubblica.it/inchieste/2019/02/20/news/esclusivo-lega-milioni-russia-1.3318350 -
Volunteering for the national military of a UK friend and ally makes you a terrorist? In what universe is that a fair point?Roger said:
Unusually for McDonnell he makes a fair point.Floater said:
And quite a smart political one at this time.
If a US national with combat experience in Afghanistan/Iraq moved here and applied for UK citizenship, would you apply the same logic to them?0 -
Is that just Jive Talkin', or a Tragedy ?AndyJS said:0 -
So both pieces for Sunday have been written, I'd be grateful if nobody defected between now and then.0
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"I’ll stop Brexit extremists infiltrating our party, Theresa May assures Tories"
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ill-stop-brexit-extremists-infiltrating-our-party-theresa-may-assures-tories-q3lwbsmwv?shareToken=3d501bfb3bf1278f27cc0cb11e57b1750 -
The impermanence of all things applies equally to our two main parties. They may stagger on until we are all in our graves or they may end tomorrow. If there was ever going to be a significant shake up then now seems as likely time as any.YBarddCwsc said:Cooper is steeped in Labour and the Trade Unions -- I think the emotional connection to Labour is too strong for her to jump.
Starmer only joined the Labour Party shortly before being found a plum seat -- I think he could jump.
But, the best advice is always to stay put. Nothing lasts for ever.0 -
These always get overturned...the fine will get paid but the transfer window thing will get lifted.TheScreamingEagles said:Could not happen to a nicer team.
https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/10988809665532026890 -
A Scotland expert speaks.
https://twitter.com/HolyroodDaily/status/1098862685247193088
He seems to have glossed over Scottish Labour losing support because it walked hand-in-hand with Ruth Davidson’s Scottish Conservatives, and that SLab were probably at their most centrist ifrom 2007 to 2015. Nice to see him agreeing with me though that SLab missed a trick by not becoming the devo max party.0 -
Where is it not being followed?Peter_the_Punter said:
I couldn't give tuppence about this silly bint from Stratford, but I do care about due process and I want it followed..
The Home Secretary makes a decision.
That is subject to appeal.
The letter informing the family of the decision included a form to make the appeal and guidance notes for filling it in.
The family are pursuing an appeal.
Where is due process not being followed?
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Where does Blair think the SNP sits with respect to "the centre ground"?Theuniondivvie said:A Scotland expert speaks.
https://twitter.com/HolyroodDaily/status/1098862685247193088
He seems to have glossed over Scottish Labour losing support because it walked hand-in-hand with Ruth Davidson’s Scottish Conservatives, and that SLab were probably at their most centrist ifrom 2007 to 2015. Nice to see him agreeing with me though that SLab missed a trick by not becoming the devo max party.0 -
Wasn't it the SNP under Salmond that had confidence and supply from the Unionists? *innocent face*Theuniondivvie said:A Scotland expert speaks.
https://twitter.com/HolyroodDaily/status/1098862685247193088
He seems to have glossed over Scottish Labour losing support because it walked hand-in-hand with Ruth Davidson’s Scottish Conservatives, and that SLab were probably at their most centrist ifrom 2007 to 2015. Nice to see him agreeing with me though that SLab missed a trick by not becoming the devo max party.
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AIUI The person being deprived of citizenship is supposed to be given advance notification in writing so they can object. Which appears not to have happened here.CarlottaVance said:
Where is it not being followed?Peter_the_Punter said:
I couldn't give tuppence about this silly bint from Stratford, but I do care about due process and I want it followed..
The Home Secretary makes a decision.
That is subject to appeal.
The letter informing the family of the decision included a form to make the appeal and guidance notes for filling it in.
The family are pursuing an appeal.
Where is due process not being followed?0 -
Oxymoron alert: "...a principled and intellectually coherent position against paying any tax."kinabalu said:
It does sound exciting. I might even buy it if it has good graphics.Philip_Thompson said:I'd sign up for Libertarian Pirate Island
But hopefully the 'Libertarian' aspect is more interesting than its usual meaning of a principled and intellectually coherent position against paying any tax.0 -
What about joining the Saudi army or the Iranian or the Russian or anyone fighting the Kurds?Endillion said:
Volunteering for the national military of a UK friend and ally makes you a terrorist? In what universe is that a fair point?Roger said:
Unusually for McDonnell he makes a fair point.Floater said:
And quite a smart political one at this time.
If a US national with combat experience in Afghanistan/Iraq moved here and applied for UK citizenship, would you apply the same logic to them?0 -
Yeah... I was just about to post about the closeness of Austin and Watson. They were fond of a chicken bhuna together when they were plotting Blair's downfall with the rest of West Mids Labour. If a reasonable handful of working class not very remainy seats were to go independent (with a small i), that would be a sizeable holing of the Corbyn ship.CarlottaVance said:0 -
If that's the case she'll have it back within a week.ydoethur said:
AIUI The person being deprived of citizenship is supposed to be given advance notification in writing so they can object. Which appears not to have happened here.CarlottaVance said:
Where is it not being followed?Peter_the_Punter said:
I couldn't give tuppence about this silly bint from Stratford, but I do care about due process and I want it followed..
The Home Secretary makes a decision.
That is subject to appeal.
The letter informing the family of the decision included a form to make the appeal and guidance notes for filling it in.
The family are pursuing an appeal.
Where is due process not being followed?0 -
You may as well get your facts right if you're going with that innocent face guff.ydoethur said:
Wasn't it the SNP under Salmond that had confidence and supply from the Unionists? *innocent face*Theuniondivvie said:A Scotland expert speaks.
https://twitter.com/HolyroodDaily/status/1098862685247193088
He seems to have glossed over Scottish Labour losing support because it walked hand-in-hand with Ruth Davidson’s Scottish Conservatives, and that SLab were probably at their most centrist ifrom 2007 to 2015. Nice to see him agreeing with me though that SLab missed a trick by not becoming the devo max party.
'The SNP initially approached the Lib Dems for a coalition government, but the Lib Dems turned them down.[2] Ultimately, the Greens agreed to provide the numbers to vote in an SNP minority government, with SNP leader Alex Salmond as First Minister'0 -
A fair point, I concede.Dura_Ace said:
This has been written on here once a week since September 2015. It'll probably still be getting an airing when Corbo is in his second term as PM.Harris_Tweed said:I foresee a speedy, but also probably sustained and terminal decline in Corbyn's popularity (and Labour while he's leader) after this week.
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That they're on the bad kind of centre ground I'd guess.williamglenn said:
Where does Blair think the SNP sits with respect to "the centre ground"?Theuniondivvie said:A Scotland expert speaks.
https://twitter.com/HolyroodDaily/status/1098862685247193088
He seems to have glossed over Scottish Labour losing support because it walked hand-in-hand with Ruth Davidson’s Scottish Conservatives, and that SLab were probably at their most centrist ifrom 2007 to 2015. Nice to see him agreeing with me though that SLab missed a trick by not becoming the devo max party.0 -
ExactlySquareRoot said:
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It's important you understand that this is not a trap that was sprung by the EU catching us unawares with dastardly cunning. All the issues which are presenting themselves now were in existence prior to June 2016. But of course they were hand waved away.Philip_Thompson said:
Its where I started off.IanB2 said:
Welcome back to Remain!Philip_Thompson said:
Considering the EU have made it crystal clear they want to leave us legally trapped in the backstop (and I have no faith in the idea we can or will unilaterally terminate that) then revocation would be better for now than ratifying that deal.Casino_Royale said:FPT - the ERG are the muppets.
I think the most likely course now is May’s deal falls, A50 is extended and we end up revoking either by referendum or unilateral parliamentary action.
I think Parliament and the EU will do everything possible to avoid No Deal, so it won’t happen even if it looks like it will with 48 hours to go.
I for one didn't vote to take back control, to still be subject by the backdoor to SM and CU rules while losing all say in them.
We can always reinvoke down the line.
Does this mean that it is impossible to leave? Certainly on ERG's terms; the UK has and had developed all kinds of ties and committments that can't just be cut with a pair of scissors. But not on more sensible terms that were dismissed almost immediately by that well known Leaver/Remainer* Theresa May.
*delete as the mood takes you.0 -
How do you do so when the person isn't in the country and there is no knowledge as to where she is.ydoethur said:
AIUI The person being deprived of citizenship is supposed to be given advance notification in writing so they can object. Which appears not to have happened here.CarlottaVance said:
Where is it not being followed?Peter_the_Punter said:
I couldn't give tuppence about this silly bint from Stratford, but I do care about due process and I want it followed..
The Home Secretary makes a decision.
That is subject to appeal.
The letter informing the family of the decision included a form to make the appeal and guidance notes for filling it in.
The family are pursuing an appeal.
Where is due process not being followed?0 -
I'm not sure. They're anti Israeli and anti Saudi Arabian but so am ISquareRoot said:0 -
We are a national team, well south east cos that's what matters, already this year we have made Milton Keynes and Wembley part of our extended home patch ... a solitary home stadium is just for ego.TheScreamingEagles said:
I feel sorry for fans of Spurs, a transfer ban and a stadium ban for this season.Scrapheap_as_was said:
Sad news..... such transfer bans are of little import to we spurs fans of course.TheScreamingEagles said:Could not happen to a nicer team.
https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1098880966553202689
When does Shite Hart Lane II open?
I had tickets for the first match at the new stadium.0 -
What does FBPE stand for? It keeps appearing in political tweets.0
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A straightforward lie, as so often on Wikipedia (which I note you don't mention as your source). The Greens' two MSPs would have made no difference (and if you had actually read the source cited, you would have noted it didn't match the claim). It was Tory tacit (and frequently active) support kept him in power:Theuniondivvie said:
You may as well get your facts right if you're going with that innocent face guff.ydoethur said:
Wasn't it the SNP under Salmond that had confidence and supply from the Unionists? *innocent face*Theuniondivvie said:A Scotland expert speaks.
https://twitter.com/HolyroodDaily/status/1098862685247193088
He seems to have glossed over Scottish Labour losing support because it walked hand-in-hand with Ruth Davidson’s Scottish Conservatives, and that SLab were probably at their most centrist ifrom 2007 to 2015. Nice to see him agreeing with me though that SLab missed a trick by not becoming the devo max party.
'The SNP initially approached the Lib Dems for a coalition government, but the Lib Dems turned them down.[2] Ultimately, the Greens agreed to provide the numbers to vote in an SNP minority government, with SNP leader Alex Salmond as First Minister'
https://news.sky.com/story/cameron-defends-tory-alliance-with-snp-103627830 -
I'm not sure why you've grouped those. The Saudis are our allies, same as Israel and the USA.Roger said:
What about joining the Saudi army or the Iranian or the Russian or anyone fighting the Kurds?Endillion said:
Volunteering for the national military of a UK friend and ally makes you a terrorist? In what universe is that a fair point?Roger said:
Unusually for McDonnell he makes a fair point.Floater said:
And quite a smart political one at this time.
If a US national with combat experience in Afghanistan/Iraq moved here and applied for UK citizenship, would you apply the same logic to them?
Iran and Russia aren't. i would expect anyone joining their armed forces to be questioned once they returned, as with anyone fighting the Kurds, but I don't think there's any question of removing citizenship purely for that.0 -
is it not more often delayed rather then overturned?timmo said:
These always get overturned...the fine will get paid but the transfer window thing will get lifted.TheScreamingEagles said:Could not happen to a nicer team.
https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/10988809665532026890 -
It's Follow Back Pro-Europe, i.e. if you're a pro-Europe and follow me, I'll follow you back.AndyJS said:What does FBPE stand for? It keeps appearing in political tweets.
It's basically code for ardent pro-Remainer.0 -
Mr. JS, I think it's 'follow back, pro-EU', although quite a few people with it are also bonkers.0
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The only thing our xenophobic Remainer/Leaver PM got right in this process is at the very start saying that in order to get a good deal, you had to be prepared to have no deal. That no deal is better than a bad deal.TOPPING said:
It's important you understand that this is not a trap that was sprung by the EU catching us unawares with dastardly cunning. All the issues which are presenting themselves now were in existence prior to June 2016. But of course they were hand waved away.Philip_Thompson said:
Its where I started off.IanB2 said:
Welcome back to Remain!Philip_Thompson said:
Considering the EU have made it crystal clear they want to leave us legally trapped in the backstop (and I have no faith in the idea we can or will unilaterally terminate that) then revocation would be better for now than ratifying that deal.Casino_Royale said:FPT - the ERG are the muppets.
I think the most likely course now is May’s deal falls, A50 is extended and we end up revoking either by referendum or unilateral parliamentary action.
I think Parliament and the EU will do everything possible to avoid No Deal, so it won’t happen even if it looks like it will with 48 hours to go.
I for one didn't vote to take back control, to still be subject by the backdoor to SM and CU rules while losing all say in them.
We can always reinvoke down the line.
Does this mean that it is impossible to leave? Certainly on ERG's terms; the UK has and had developed all kinds of ties and committments that can't just be cut with a pair of scissors. But not on more sensible terms that were dismissed almost immediately by that well known Leaver/Remainer* Theresa May.
*delete as the mood takes you.
But she then did zero preparations for no deal, Liam Fox's department has bungled it. This did not need to be the case.
If we end up remaining, that won't end the reasons why we voted to Leave. Either the EU will need to address our concerns and reform, or [more likely] we'll be back here again in the future but this time with a better leader who is prepared to risk no deal to get a good deal.
That'd be better than May's purgatory we're to be cast off into.0 -
I still remember your post attacking me as a supporter of the zionist regime when I couldn't even remember making one post about Israel - this was well before the anti semites took over LabourRoger said:
I'm not sure. They're anti Israeli and anti Saudi Arabian but so am ISquareRoot said:
Why is it that sections of the left are so obsessed about one country?0 -
Corbyn's provided a handy backstop to the political fallout for the Gov't from this though. Updating the treason laws might be a good idea mind; consider the counterfactual of ISIS doing well - Begum would have spawned three likely terrorists and traitors and still be out there as a terrorist breeding machine.TheWhiteRabbit said:
If that's the case she'll have it back within a week.ydoethur said:
AIUI The person being deprived of citizenship is supposed to be given advance notification in writing so they can object. Which appears not to have happened here.CarlottaVance said:
Where is it not being followed?Peter_the_Punter said:
I couldn't give tuppence about this silly bint from Stratford, but I do care about due process and I want it followed..
The Home Secretary makes a decision.
That is subject to appeal.
The letter informing the family of the decision included a form to make the appeal and guidance notes for filling it in.
The family are pursuing an appeal.
Where is due process not being followed?0 -
Follow back, Pro-EUAndyJS said:What does FBPE stand for? It keeps appearing in political tweets.
Yes, I don't get it either.0 -
Thanks.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. JS, I think it's 'follow back, pro-EU', although quite a few people with it are also bonkers.
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IMO a reasonable position would have been to have no position. Make no effort to repatriate but if she managed to return off her own bat, deal with her in the same way that we have dealt with others in similar circumstances.Cookie said:I have a Corbynista facebook friend -whp is actually half-Iranian - who is of the opinion that she has got exactly what she deserved and is vociferously opposed to her returning.
Javid in his wisdom (a.k.a. seeing some frothing outrage in the tabloids and spotting an opportunity to further his Tory leadership ambitions) decided instead to 'special case' it and thus poured fuel on the fire.
Triggering Corbyn to take the opposite extreme - that we should actively seek to bring her back.
Upshot: because she is one of the 'Bethnal Green girls' whose story was and is particularly interesting to the media, and because of a shallow, self-promoting Home Secretary, she will end up being treated differently to the norm - it could be worse or it could be better, we will see.
Poor show.0 -
That is the potential difficulty, and not being a lawyer I don't know if the HO has potential discretionary powers to strip someone of citizenship in such a case without giving notice.eek said:
How do you do so when the person isn't in the country and there is no knowledge as to where she is.ydoethur said:
AIUI The person being deprived of citizenship is supposed to be given advance notification in writing so they can object. Which appears not to have happened here.CarlottaVance said:
Where is it not being followed?Peter_the_Punter said:
I couldn't give tuppence about this silly bint from Stratford, but I do care about due process and I want it followed..
The Home Secretary makes a decision.
That is subject to appeal.
The letter informing the family of the decision included a form to make the appeal and guidance notes for filling it in.
The family are pursuing an appeal.
Where is due process not being followed?
However, given she was in the media spotlight and journalists clearly were in contact with her I think the Home Office will have a tough time arguing they didn't know and couldn't be expected to know where she was.0 -
But it was a bluff. As we're seeing now and as you have identified. No deal was and is unthinkable. She got that wrong although it sounded great and stiffened the sinews of not a few Little Englanders.Philip_Thompson said:
The only thing our xenophobic Remainer/Leaver PM got right in this process is at the very start saying that in order to get a good deal, you had to be prepared to have no deal. That no deal is better than a bad deal.TOPPING said:
It's important you understand that this is not a trap that was sprung by the EU catching us unawares with dastardly cunning. All the issues which are presenting themselves now were in existence prior to June 2016. But of course they were hand waved away.Philip_Thompson said:
Its where I started off.IanB2 said:
Welcome back to Remain!Philip_Thompson said:
Considering the EU have made it crystal clear they want to leave us legally trapped in the backstop (and I have no faith in the idea we can or will unilaterally terminate that) then revocation would be better for now than ratifying that deal.Casino_Royale said:FPT - the ERG are the muppets.
I think the most likely course now is May’s deal falls, A50 is extended and we end up revoking either by referendum or unilateral parliamentary action.
I think Parliament and the EU will do everything possible to avoid No Deal, so it won’t happen even if it looks like it will with 48 hours to go.
I for one didn't vote to take back control, to still be subject by the backdoor to SM and CU rules while losing all say in them.
We can always reinvoke down the line.
Does this mean that it is impossible to leave? Certainly on ERG's terms; the UK has and had developed all kinds of ties and committments that can't just be cut with a pair of scissors. But not on more sensible terms that were dismissed almost immediately by that well known Leaver/Remainer* Theresa May.
*delete as the mood takes you.
But she then did zero preparations for no deal, Liam Fox's department has bungled it. This did not need to be the case.
If we end up remaining, that won't end the reasons why we voted to Leave. Either the EU will need to address our concerns and reform, or [more likely] we'll be back here again in the future but this time with a better leader who is prepared to risk no deal to get a good deal.
That'd be better than May's purgatory we're to be cast off into.0 -
The letter from the Home Office makes that point - and that it is subject to appeal (and here are the forms & guidance notes)....eek said:
How do you do so when the person isn't in the country and there is no knowledge as to where she is.ydoethur said:
AIUI The person being deprived of citizenship is supposed to be given advance notification in writing so they can object. Which appears not to have happened here.CarlottaVance said:
Where is it not being followed?Peter_the_Punter said:
I couldn't give tuppence about this silly bint from Stratford, but I do care about due process and I want it followed..
The Home Secretary makes a decision.
That is subject to appeal.
The letter informing the family of the decision included a form to make the appeal and guidance notes for filling it in.
The family are pursuing an appeal.
Where is due process not being followed?
https://www.itv.com/news/2019-02-19/shamima-begum-has-uk-citizenship-revoked-by-british-government-itv-news-learns/0 -
Tsk, Tories eat the children of the poor, not their own.Endillion said:
If we're now suggesting she ate them, does that mean she gets to join the Tory party?CarlottaVance said:
Javid has said in the HoC that he is not deprived of his nationality.stodge said:I can't get past the notion the baby boy deserves a chance at life and I don't see why depriving him of either his nationality or his mother is a good idea.
I suspect his life chances might be better with different parents, since his (evidently fat) (so shoot me, it had to be said) mother has already lost two children to malnutrition. Most emaciated children have emaciated mothers. Those two didn't.0 -
In terms of process, this is looking like Shoesmith the II to me.0
-
My problem is that it creates an echo-chamber of views that are identical to your own which will drown out anything else in your twitter feed.Slackbladder said:
Follow back, Pro-EUAndyJS said:What does FBPE stand for? It keeps appearing in political tweets.
Yes, I don't get it either.
It may just be me but I prefer to read things from people with other viewpoints different to my own to ensure I'm not missing something..0 -
This is precisely my view on the situation.kinabalu said:
IMO a reasonable position would have been to have no position. Make no effort to repatriate but if she managed to return off her own bat, deal with her in the same way that we have dealt with others in similar circumstances.Cookie said:I have a Corbynista facebook friend -whp is actually half-Iranian - who is of the opinion that she has got exactly what she deserved and is vociferously opposed to her returning.
Javid in his wisdom (a.k.a. seeing some frothing outrage in the tabloids and spotting an opportunity to further his Tory leadership ambitions) decided instead to 'special case' it and thus poured fuel on the fire.
Triggering Corbyn to take the opposite extreme - that we should actively seek to bring her back.
Upshot: because she is one of the 'Bethnal Green girls' whose story was and is particularly interesting to the media, and because of a shallow, self-promoting Home Secretary, she will end up being treated differently to the norm - it could be worse or it could be better, we will see.
Poor show.0 -
So no mention of confidence and supply (a very specific political term) by the SCons? Does that mean that your use of it was a 'lie'?ydoethur said:
A straightforward lie, as so often on Wikipedia (which I note you don't mention as your source). The Greens' two MSPs would have made no difference (and if you had actually read the source cited, you would have noted it didn't match the claim). It was Tory tacit (and frequently active) support kept him in power:Theuniondivvie said:
You may as well get your facts right if you're going with that innocent face guff.ydoethur said:
Wasn't it the SNP under Salmond that had confidence and supply from the Unionists? *innocent face*Theuniondivvie said:A Scotland expert speaks.
https://twitter.com/HolyroodDaily/status/1098862685247193088
He seems to have glossed over Scottish Labour losing support because it walked hand-in-hand with Ruth Davidson’s Scottish Conservatives, and that SLab were probably at their most centrist ifrom 2007 to 2015. Nice to see him agreeing with me though that SLab missed a trick by not becoming the devo max party.
'The SNP initially approached the Lib Dems for a coalition government, but the Lib Dems turned them down.[2] Ultimately, the Greens agreed to provide the numbers to vote in an SNP minority government, with SNP leader Alex Salmond as First Minister'
https://news.sky.com/story/cameron-defends-tory-alliance-with-snp-103627830 -
Exactly. She was forced to tell business so very early on.TOPPING said:
But it was a bluff. As we're seeing now and as you have identified. No deal was and is unthinkable. She got that wrong although it sounded great and stiffened the sinews of not a few Little Englanders.Philip_Thompson said:
The only thing our xenophobic Remainer/Leaver PM got right in this process is at the very start saying that in order to get a good deal, you had to be prepared to have no deal. That no deal is better than a bad deal.TOPPING said:
It's important you understand that this is not a trap that was sprung by the EU catching us unawares with dastardly cunning. All the issues which are presenting themselves now were in existence prior to June 2016. But of course they were hand waved away.Philip_Thompson said:
Its where I started off.IanB2 said:
Welcome back to Remain!Philip_Thompson said:
Considering the EU have made it crystal clear they want to leave us legally trapped in the backstop (and I have no faith in the idea we can or will unilaterally terminate that) then revocation would be better for now than ratifying that deal.Casino_Royale said:FPT - the ERG are the muppets.
I think the most likely course now is May’s deal falls, A50 is extended and we end up revoking either by referendum or unilateral parliamentary action.
I think Parliament and the EU will do everything possible to avoid No Deal, so it won’t happen even if it looks like it will with 48 hours to go.
I for one didn't vote to take back control, to still be subject by the backdoor to SM and CU rules while losing all say in them.
We can always reinvoke down the line.
Does this mean that it is impossible to leave? Certainly on ERG's terms; the UK has and had developed all kinds of ties and committments that can't just be cut with a pair of scissors. But not on more sensible terms that were dismissed almost immediately by that well known Leaver/Remainer* Theresa May.
*delete as the mood takes you.
But she then did zero preparations for no deal, Liam Fox's department has bungled it. This did not need to be the case.
If we end up remaining, that won't end the reasons why we voted to Leave. Either the EU will need to address our concerns and reform, or [more likely] we'll be back here again in the future but this time with a better leader who is prepared to risk no deal to get a good deal.
That'd be better than May's purgatory we're to be cast off into.
She should have gone for soft Brexit from the off, using her capital to face down the ERG at the outset rather than squandering it on the GE0 -
The answer seems to be that if you can't do it, then the law doesn't allow you to deprive the person of citizenship.eek said:
How do you do so when the person isn't in the country and there is no knowledge as to where she is.ydoethur said:
AIUI The person being deprived of citizenship is supposed to be given advance notification in writing so they can object. Which appears not to have happened here.CarlottaVance said:
Where is it not being followed?Peter_the_Punter said:
I couldn't give tuppence about this silly bint from Stratford, but I do care about due process and I want it followed..
The Home Secretary makes a decision.
That is subject to appeal.
The letter informing the family of the decision included a form to make the appeal and guidance notes for filling it in.
The family are pursuing an appeal.
Where is due process not being followed?
0 -
All right, you won't take that, try this:Theuniondivvie said:
So no mention of confidence and supply (a very specific political term) by the SCons? Does that mean that your use of it was a 'lie'?ydoethur said:
A straightforward lie, as so often on Wikipedia (which I note you don't mention as your source). The Greens' two MSPs would have made no difference (and if you had actually read the source cited, you would have noted it didn't match the claim). It was Tory tacit (and frequently active) support kept him in power:Theuniondivvie said:
You may as well get your facts right if you're going with that innocent face guff.ydoethur said:
Wasn't it the SNP under Salmond that had confidence and supply from the Unionists? *innocent face*Theuniondivvie said:A Scotland expert speaks.
https://twitter.com/HolyroodDaily/status/1098862685247193088
He seems to have glossed over Scottish Labour losing support because it walked hand-in-hand with Ruth Davidson’s Scottish Conservatives, and that SLab were probably at their most centrist ifrom 2007 to 2015. Nice to see him agreeing with me though that SLab missed a trick by not becoming the devo max party.
'The SNP initially approached the Lib Dems for a coalition government, but the Lib Dems turned them down.[2] Ultimately, the Greens agreed to provide the numbers to vote in an SNP minority government, with SNP leader Alex Salmond as First Minister'
https://news.sky.com/story/cameron-defends-tory-alliance-with-snp-10362783
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/10/alex-salmond-hypocrisy-former-scottish-tories-leader-annabel-goldie
That proves the supply part anyway and negates the lies in Wikipedia about the Greens' importance(!). You might be interested to know that in November 2007 Salmond actually changed the rules of the SNP to make it possible. So it was a biggish deal at the time.
I won't hold my breath. You don't like it when people catch you out. Fine, nor do I. But have the courage to fess up for once when you are. The SNP relied on the Tories for everything they achieved in their first term and for the shot at a referendum. I will admit the irony is delicious, although I can see why you don't like being reminded of it.
Edit - incidentally, I said they relied on the Tories for Confidence and Supply, not that they had a confidence and supply arrangement. Which they did. So no, I wasn't lying. You of course, were mistaken. I will be charitable and leave it at that.0 -
The only realistic line is that she is abroad and the FCO does not have consular services where she is, so HMG does not have the capacity to contact her - though even that it pretty weak as I'm sure they could e-mail the letter.ydoethur said:
That is the potential difficulty, and not being a lawyer I don't know if the HO has potential discretionary powers to strip someone of citizenship in such a case without giving notice.eek said:
How do you do so when the person isn't in the country and there is no knowledge as to where she is.ydoethur said:
AIUI The person being deprived of citizenship is supposed to be given advance notification in writing so they can object. Which appears not to have happened here.CarlottaVance said:
Where is it not being followed?Peter_the_Punter said:
I couldn't give tuppence about this silly bint from Stratford, but I do care about due process and I want it followed..
The Home Secretary makes a decision.
That is subject to appeal.
The letter informing the family of the decision included a form to make the appeal and guidance notes for filling it in.
The family are pursuing an appeal.
Where is due process not being followed?
However, given she was in the media spotlight and journalists clearly were in contact with her I think the Home Office will have a tough time arguing they didn't know and couldn't be expected to know where she was.
FWIW, I don't think it's a good decision of Javid. Punting the responsibility for her onto a third country that really couldn't have been expected to have anything to do with it and which probably would have denied her citizenship had they known about her case in advance. It also opens the door to other states making like decisions in the future and Britain having weaker ground on which to reject what are essentially foreign criminals thrust onto it.
There is an argument that she effectively renounced British citizenship when she volunteered to travel to - and give allegiance to - what was, for practical purposes, an unrecognised state (though she did so as a minor and possibly having been groomed for it, albeit that now, as an adult, she seems happy to retain her extreme views). But if we accept that, then the destruction of that state would now leave her stateless, but for the accident of the place of birth of her parents.
What to do? Let her try to return and if she does, arrest her and if the evidence is there, prosecute her. Of course, if the Syrians want to prosecute her first, that should be their right but I expect that they'll have bigger fish to fry and that as with most civil wars, there'll be a period of blind-eye turning to the small fry.0 -
The expert on everything told a lieydoethur said:
All right, you won't take that, try this:Theuniondivvie said:
So no mention of confidence and supply (a very specific political term) by the SCons? Does that mean that your use of it was a 'lie'?ydoethur said:
A straightforward lie, as so often on Wikipedia (which I note you don't mention as your source). The Greens' two MSPs would have made no difference (and if you had actually read the source cited, you would have noted it didn't match the claim). It was Tory tacit (and frequently active) support kept him in power:Theuniondivvie said:
You may as well get your facts right if you're going with that innocent face guff.ydoethur said:
Wasn't it the SNP under Salmond that had confidence and supply from the Unionists? *innocent face*Theuniondivvie said:A Scotland expert speaks.
https://twitter.com/HolyroodDaily/status/1098862685247193088
He seems to have glossed over Scottish Labour losing support because it walked hand-in-hand with Ruth Davidson’s Scottish Conservatives, and that SLab were probably at their most centrist ifrom 2007 to 2015. Nice to see him agreeing with me though that SLab missed a trick by not becoming the devo max party.
'The SNP initially approached the Lib Dems for a coalition government, but the Lib Dems turned them down.[2] Ultimately, the Greens agreed to provide the numbers to vote in an SNP minority government, with SNP leader Alex Salmond as First Minister'
https://news.sky.com/story/cameron-defends-tory-alliance-with-snp-10362783
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/10/alex-salmond-hypocrisy-former-scottish-tories-leader-annabel-goldie
That proves the supply part anyway and negates the lies in Wikipedia about the Greens' importance(!). You might be interested to know that in November 2007 Salmond actually changed the rules of the SNP to make it possible. So it was a biggish deal at the time.
I won't hold my breath. You don't like it when people catch you out. Fine, nor do I. But have the courage to fess up for once when you are. The SNP relied on the Tories for everything they achieved in their first term and for the shot at a referendum. I will admit the irony is delicious, although I can see why you don't like being reminded of it.
about confidence and supply.
Almost poetry.0 -
The trouble is that, as far as I can see, the Act doesn't say written notice has to be given if practicable or anything like that. It just says written notice has to be given.david_herdson said:
The only realistic line is that she is abroad and the FCO does not have consular services where she is, so HMG does not have the capacity to contact her - though even that it pretty weak as I'm sure they could e-mail the letter. ...ydoethur said:
That is the potential difficulty, and not being a lawyer I don't know if the HO has potential discretionary powers to strip someone of citizenship in such a case without giving notice.eek said:
How do you do so when the person isn't in the country and there is no knowledge as to where she is.ydoethur said:
AIUI The person being deprived of citizenship is supposed to be given advance notification in writing so they can object. Which appears not to have happened here.CarlottaVance said:
Where is it not being followed?Peter_the_Punter said:
I couldn't give tuppence about this silly bint from Stratford, but I do care about due process and I want it followed..
The Home Secretary makes a decision.
That is subject to appeal.
The letter informing the family of the decision included a form to make the appeal and guidance notes for filling it in.
The family are pursuing an appeal.
Where is due process not being followed?
However, given she was in the media spotlight and journalists clearly were in contact with her I think the Home Office will have a tough time arguing they didn't know and couldn't be expected to know where she was.
A deprival order had to be withdrawn in 2017 because notice hadn't been properly served.0 -
I also think this is a bad decision, and I expect it will be overturned.david_herdson said:The only realistic line is that she is abroad and the FCO does not have consular services where she is, so HMG does not have the capacity to contact her - though even that it pretty weak as I'm sure they could e-mail the letter.
FWIW, I don't think it's a good decision of Javid. Punting the responsibility for her onto a third country that really couldn't have been expected to have anything to do with it and which probably would have denied her citizenship had they known about her case in advance. It also opens the door to other states making like decisions in the future and Britain having weaker ground on which to reject what are essentially foreign criminals thrust onto it.
There is an argument that she effectively renounced British citizenship when she volunteered to travel to - and give allegiance to - what was, for practical purposes, an unrecognised state (though she did so as a minor and possibly having been groomed for it, albeit that now, as an adult, she seems happy to retain her extreme views). But if we accept that, then the destruction of that state would now leave her stateless, but for the accident of the place of birth of her parents.
What to do? Let her try to return and if she does, arrest her and if the evidence is there, prosecute her. Of course, if the Syrians want to prosecute her first, that should be their right but I expect that they'll have bigger fish to fry and that as with most civil wars, there'll be a period of blind-eye turning to the small fry.
What I can't understand is why anyone who joined ISIS and returns isn't immediately charged with treason. The case is open and shut and it means they can be peacefully locked up for good and all. Too many governments seem obsessed with new laws (hello, Mr Blair!) rather than using the extensive powers they have under existing laws.0 -
Mmm. You might say that but I couldn't possibly comment.Benpointer said:Oxymoron alert: "...a principled and intellectually coherent position against paying any tax."
There are quite a few 'libertarians' at my golf club. Fine chaps they are too - unless you park in their space or something and then you feel the sharp end of their tongue.0 -
She was bluffing yes. Or lying. Honesty and integrity does not seem to be her strength.TOPPING said:
But it was a bluff. As we're seeing now and as you have identified. No deal was and is unthinkable. She got that wrong although it sounded great and stiffened the sinews of not a few Little Englanders.Philip_Thompson said:
The only thing our xenophobic Remainer/Leaver PM got right in this process is at the very start saying that in order to get a good deal, you had to be prepared to have no deal. That no deal is better than a bad deal.TOPPING said:
It's important you understand that this is not a trap that was sprung by the EU catching us unawares with dastardly cunning. All the issues which are presenting themselves now were in existence prior to June 2016. But of course they were hand waved away.Philip_Thompson said:
Its where I started off.IanB2 said:
Welcome back to Remain!Philip_Thompson said:
Considering the EU have made it crystal clear they want to leave us legally trapped in the backstop (and I have no faith in the idea we can or will unilaterally terminate that) then revocation would be better for now than ratifying that deal.Casino_Royale said:FPT - the ERG are the muppets.
I think the most likely course now is May’s deal falls, A50 is extended and we end up revoking either by referendum or unilateral parliamentary action.
I think Parliament and the EU will do everything possible to avoid No Deal, so it won’t happen even if it looks like it will with 48 hours to go.
I for one didn't vote to take back control, to still be subject by the backdoor to SM and CU rules while losing all say in them.
We can always reinvoke down the line.
Does this mean that it is impossible to leave? Certainly on ERG's terms; the UK has and had developed all kinds of ties and committments that can't just be cut with a pair of scissors. But not on more sensible terms that were dismissed almost immediately by that well known Leaver/Remainer* Theresa May.
*delete as the mood takes you.
But she then did zero preparations for no deal, Liam Fox's department has bungled it. This did not need to be the case.
If we end up remaining, that won't end the reasons why we voted to Leave. Either the EU will need to address our concerns and reform, or [more likely] we'll be back here again in the future but this time with a better leader who is prepared to risk no deal to get a good deal.
That'd be better than May's purgatory we're to be cast off into.0 -
Mr. Doethur, the recent discussion on this suggested the conditions to satisfy treason are actually pretty limited.
A shame, as you say, it'd otherwise be rather good for dodgy types.0 -
It's the detailed, sophisticated and entirely factual rebuttal that I love about you TUD. It's so good you don't resort to the abusive, false, incoherent and ungrammatical rantings of a tribal fanatic who has been caught out in an error (at least, I'm starting to wonder if it was a deliberate lie, but I can't be bothered to pursue it) but can't bear to admit it.Theuniondivvie said:The expert on everything told a lie
about confidence and supply.
Almost poetry.
Anyway, I have work to do. Have a good morning.0 -
That wasn't his point and a good reason for not getting your political information from Guido who has an agenda. His point was that if giving support to a foreign power was reason for withdrawing passports why not include those who take up arms for Israel?Floater said:0 -
It is because Israel is viewed in those quarters as a racist state built upon aggressive white colonialism and the oppression of dark-skinned people who are deemed intrinsically inferior.Floater said:Why is it that sections of the left are so obsessed about one country?
This is equally why Israel (along with white farmers in Southern Africa and the Trump MAGA movement in the USA) is so loved by white supremacists such as Katie Hopkins.
Same coin, two sides.0 -
Betting: laying no deal 29/3 exit at 4.4 looks like an outstanding bet0
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Israel is neither a friend or an ally of the UK. They are the enemy of some of our enemies and supplier of high tech military products. We don't trust them and they certainly don't trust us.Endillion said:
Volunteering for the national military of a UK friend and ally makes you a terrorist? In what universe is that a fair point?0 -
Corbyn is saying she should keep her citizenship - the exact opposite of what McDonnell was saying for people fighting for Israel.Roger said:
That wasn't his point and a good reason for not getting your political information from Guido who has an agenda. His point was that if giving support to a foreign power was reason for withdrawing passports why not include those who take up arms for Israel?Floater said:
These are McDonnell's own words
"Will you be explaining to them that association with those who are intentionally targeting civilians for political ends, or participation in such acts, would involve them in an association with or engaged in, the perpetration of acts that meet the statutory definition of terrorism in the UK?"
So association is strong enough for people serving in Israel but not enough for people joining ISIS?
Why if this is such a great point do we think this comment has been removed from his web site?0 -
Had a dream about the current political situation. I know it was a dream because labour mps who were staying to fight were actually doing something rather than trousering their salary and selling comment to the MSM on how awful it all is.
We could kill off both the totemic parties here and start again if they weren't all such self interested greedy idiots.
Something that is genuinely not the establishment might be just around the corner if we go take a look.
Gilets jaunes, Trump, Tiggers, Brexit, fake news, social media censorship vs free speech. The world is changing and nothing will stop that short of a nuclear exchange and population cull.
It's done, get on board the anti New World Order0 -
When you do that 'have a good morning' stuff, I always imagine you swishing a cloak aboot yer self and flouncing out the room.ydoethur said:
It's the detailed, sophisticated and entirely factual rebuttal that I love about you TUD. It's so good you don't resort to the abusive, false, incoherent and ungrammatical rantings of a tribal fanatic who has been caught out in an error (at least, I'm starting to wonder if it was a deliberate lie, but I can't be bothered to pursue it) but can't bear to admit it.Theuniondivvie said:The expert on everything told a lie
about confidence and supply.
Almost poetry.
Anyway, I have work to do. Have a good morning.
Give it up squire, when you're trying to parse some huge difference between Confidence and Supply and a confidence and supply arrangement, you've disappeared up your own fundament (a familiar route for you I imagine).0 -
Could you tell me the last time an Israeli blew up kids at an Ariana Grande concert? Thanks!Dura_Ace said:
Israel is neither a friend nor an ally of the UK. They are the enemy of some of our enemies and supplier of high tech military products. We don't trust them and they certainly don't trust us.Endillion said:
Volunteering for the national military of a UK friend and ally makes you a terrorist? In what universe is that a fair point?0 -
When did Chris Williamson complete his rise to press secretary for Corbyn, anyway?0
-
Incidentally I've never referred to Israel as 'a Zionist regime'. These are the sorts of lazy mistakes your mentor Guido makes which is why most posters don't spend too much time quoting him.Floater said:
I still remember your post attacking me as a supporter of the zionist regime when I couldn't even remember making one post about Israel - this was well before the anti semites took over LabourRoger said:
I'm not sure. They're anti Israeli and anti Saudi Arabian but so am ISquareRoot said:
Why is it that sections of the left are so obsessed about one country?0 -
What's your opinion of Morocco's occupation of Western Sahara?Roger said:
Incidentally I've never referred to Israel as 'a Zionist regime'. These are the sorts of lazy mistakes your mentor Guido makes which is why most posters don't spend too much time quoting him.Floater said:
I still remember your post attacking me as a supporter of the zionist regime when I couldn't even remember making one post about Israel - this was well before the anti semites took over LabourRoger said:
I'm not sure. They're anti Israeli and anti Saudi Arabian but so am ISquareRoot said:
Why is it that sections of the left are so obsessed about one country?0 -
Dunno but he provides plenty of amusement. I particularly liked his latest rant, accusing Ian Austin of being an 'embarrassment to the Labour Party' because of his 'frequent ill-tempered outbursts'.TheWhiteRabbit said:When did Chris Williamson complete his rise to press secretary for Corbyn, anyway?
0 -
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/mar/25/israel-white-phosphorus-gazaSunil_Prasannan said:
Could you tell me the last time an Israeli blew up kids at an Ariana Grande concert? Thanks!Dura_Ace said:
Israel is neither a friend nor an ally of the UK. They are the enemy of some of our enemies and supplier of high tech military products. We don't trust them and they certainly don't trust us.Endillion said:
Volunteering for the national military of a UK friend and ally makes you a terrorist? In what universe is that a fair point?0 -
What if the Home Secretary has intelligence which suggests that Shamina Begum would be a danger to the public if she were to return?0
-
Since he was sacked from the frontbench by Corbyn.TheWhiteRabbit said:When did Chris Williamson complete his rise to press secretary for Corbyn, anyway?
0 -
Well, if she ever plays the Gaza Strip...Sunil_Prasannan said:
Could you tell me the last time an Israeli blew up kids at an Ariana Grande concert? Thanks!Dura_Ace said:
Israel is neither a friend nor an ally of the UK. They are the enemy of some of our enemies and supplier of high tech military products. We don't trust them and they certainly don't trust us.Endillion said:
Volunteering for the national military of a UK friend and ally makes you a terrorist? In what universe is that a fair point?0 -
I wonder what McDonnell - a man with a pretty good grip of what he should say (even if sometimes he says something else) - makes of all of this.Richard_Nabavi said:
Dunno but he provides plenty of amusement. I particularly liked his latest rant, accusing Ian Austin of being an 'embarrassment to the Labour Party' because of his 'frequent ill-tempered outbursts'.TheWhiteRabbit said:When did Chris Williamson complete his rise to press secretary for Corbyn, anyway?
0 -
What part of what he's saying do you disagree with?Floater said:
Corbyn is saying she should keep her citizenship - the exact opposite of what McDonnell was saying for people fighting for Israel.Roger said:
That wasn't his point and a good reason for not getting your political information from Guido who has an agenda. His point was that if giving support to a foreign power was reason for withdrawing passports why not include those who take up arms for Israel?Floater said:
These are McDonnell's own words
"Will you be explaining to them that association with those who are intentionally targeting civilians for political ends, or participation in such acts, would involve them in an association with or engaged in, the perpetration of acts that meet the statutory definition of terrorism in the UK?"
So association is strong enough for people serving in Israel but not enough for people joining ISIS?
Why if this is such a great point do we think this comment has been removed from his web site?0 -
In a sense the WA is the platform for a soft Brexit. The backstop ensures close alignment absent unicorn tech border or NI diverging from the UK.IanB2 said:She should have gone for soft Brexit from the off, using her capital to face down the ERG at the outset rather than squandering it on the GE
But if you mean she ought to have declared early for Single Market, I disagree. We cannot pretend that ending FOM was not a big driver of the Leave vote in the referendum. That particular red line of TM's did IMO have to be drawn.0
