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Even Maggie knew what vegetables were.matt said:https://mobile.twitter.com/OldRoberts953/status/1096914704285487104/photo/1
The great hope of the Labour Party.
The rest of her Cabinet!0 -
You mean they self-identify as vegetarians despite not being vegetarians.Morris_Dancer said:To be fair, I've heard some vegetarians do still eat fish.
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By definition, that’s unlikely.Morris_Dancer said:To be fair, I've heard some vegetarians do still eat fish.
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Mr. Rentool, back when Hitler was a vegetarian, things like kidney were still on the menu. Most people might tightly define the term now, but the definition can vary and certainly has historically.
Mr. Mark, people don't eat enormo-haddock. Enormo-haddock eat people.0 -
Who was that fucking nutter who used to post about what strawberries Waitrose had in stock as some sort of evidence that brexit was going well?FrancisUrquhart said:
When do we start getting into price of tomatos vs oranges?felix said:Most recent poll in Spain shows Ciudadanos increasing it's vote along with Vox while Podemos and PP both drop. PSOE up slightly but overall right and centre right still in the lead overall.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2019_Spanish_general_election0 -
OK, even if he thinks in his former role as a Whip, he has enough shit on enough MPs to get him to the membership - how does he think he is going to repeat that trick with the membership? It's hard to think of anyone the membership wouldn't prefer over him.SouthamObserver said:
Williamson is also transparently angling for the leadership. Fox and Bradley, at least, have the self-knowledge not to bother - which I guess does put them below him in the pecking order of crapness.kle4 said:
They don't seem to provoke the immediate negative opinion that Williamson does though. I don't know that I've ever seen anyone defend him.SouthamObserver said:
Fox, Bradley and Mordaunt are all floating at the bottom, too.DavidL said:
Oh he is close if you except Grayling and we really cannot use him as a bar for anything. Flood prevention perhaps.SouthamObserver said:It is a sobering thought that Gavin Williamson is not close to being the most inept member of the current Cabinet. That’s how bad it is.
OK, maybe Grieve and Boles. But somehow, I don't see them making the final two.0 -
I'm surprised that three junior members of staff at Patisserie Valerie are in the frame. If they managed to get away with £40m there's something dreadfully wrong with the financial controls or they've a rubbish set of controls. Even if people at the top are involved.0
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The SFO have not had a lot of success recently. Too soon to blame the director appointed last year - Lisa Osofsky - but if the current Barclays trial does not go well for them,well, expect the same questions to be asked as have been asked of the SFO for the last 30 years.MarqueeMark said:
In your dreams!Cyclefree said:
Though there is a delightful error in the first line of the report.....
I was once interviewed by them as a potential prosecution witness despite having told them, repeatedly, that I had no relevant evidence. No matter. The then director rang up my boss and insisted that I was a key witness and must be flown back from the US to give a statement. So I did - and being interviewed after an overnight flight with about 3 hours sleep is no joke. The level of questioning was dire. I told them again what I did not know. They asked me at the end if there were any other matters I did not know about. This was, I am not joking, the actual question. I paused for a long moment and briefly toyed with the idea of telling them that I did not know how to play the violin and knew nothing about quantum physics. But I held back. They drew up a statement. I was scheduled to give evidence. Hours before, the prosecution barrister took one look at the statement and said there was no point as I had no relevant evidence to give.
Hallelujah!
It has not been my only encounter with them. I have not been impressed.
Mind you, the FCA has prosecuted only one case of insider dealing in 3 years and even that is going for a retrial.
We have never got the prosecution of fraud and serious financial crime right in this country, the maximum sentences are far too low and even when you commit extremely serious crimes you never get the maximum anyway. We just don’t take it seriously enough.0 -
Let them loose. We need some by-elections....Morris_Dancer said:
Mr. Mark, people don't eat enormo-haddock. Enormo-haddock eat people.0 -
That was about Brexit was it? I was always a bit puzzled and vaguely assumed he had some strange niche interest he just wanted to share.Dura_Ace said:
Who was that fucking nutter who used to post about what strawberries Waitrose had in stock as some sort of evidence that brexit was going well?FrancisUrquhart said:
When do we start getting into price of tomatos vs oranges?felix said:Most recent poll in Spain shows Ciudadanos increasing it's vote along with Vox while Podemos and PP both drop. PSOE up slightly but overall right and centre right still in the lead overall.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2019_Spanish_general_election0 -
Seems wrong that the police can do you for wasting police time, but there is no equivalent offence for wasting the public's time.... Maybe being a pillock in a public office?Cyclefree said:
The SFO have not had a lot of success recently. Too soon to blame the director appointed last year - Lisa Osofsky - but if the current Barclays trial does not go well for them,well, expect the same questions to be asked as have been asked of the SFO for the last 30 years.MarqueeMark said:
In your dreams!Cyclefree said:
Though there is a delightful error in the first line of the report.....
I was once interviewed by them as a potential prosecution witness despite having told them, repeatedly, that I had no relevant evidence. No matter. The then director rang up my boss and insisted that I was a key witness and must be flown back from the US to give a statement. So I did - and being interviewed after an overnight flight with about 3 hours sleep is no joke. The level of questioning was dire. I told them again what I did not know. They asked me at the end if there were any other matters I did not know about. This was, I am not joking, the actual question. I paused for a long moment and briefly toyed with the idea of telling them that I did not know how to play the violin and knew nothing about quantum physics. But I held back. They drew up a statement. I was scheduled to give evidence. Hours before, the prosecution barrister took one look at the statement and said there was no point as I had no relevant evidence to give.
Hallelujah!
It has not been my only encounter with them. I have not been impressed.
Mind you, the FCA has prosecuted only one case of insider dealing in 3 years and even that is going for a retrial.
We have never got the prosecution of fraud and serious financial crime right in this country, the maximum sentences are far too low and even when you commit extremely serious crimes you never get the maximum anyway. We just don’t take it seriously enough.0 -
Piscatarians.SandyRentool said:
You mean they self-identify as vegetarians despite not being vegetarians.Morris_Dancer said:To be fair, I've heard some vegetarians do still eat fish.
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I wondered if he was maybe a well-known jam-maker....Stark_Dawning said:
That was about Brexit was it? I was always a bit puzzled and vaguely assumed he had some strange niche interest he just wanted to share.Dura_Ace said:
Who was that fucking nutter who used to post about what strawberries Waitrose had in stock as some sort of evidence that brexit was going well?FrancisUrquhart said:
When do we start getting into price of tomatos vs oranges?felix said:Most recent poll in Spain shows Ciudadanos increasing it's vote along with Vox while Podemos and PP both drop. PSOE up slightly but overall right and centre right still in the lead overall.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2019_Spanish_general_election0 -
We’d have to arrest most of Westminster.MarqueeMark said:
Seems wrong that the police can do you for wasting police time, but there is no equivalent offence for wasting the public's time.... Maybe being a pillock in a public office?Cyclefree said:
The SFO have not had a lot of success recently. Too soon to blame the director appointed last year - Lisa Osofsky - but if the current Barclays trial does not go well for them,well, expect the same questions to be asked as have been asked of the SFO for the last 30 years.MarqueeMark said:
In your dreams!Cyclefree said:
Though there is a delightful error in the first line of the report.....
I was once interviewed by them as a potential prosecution witness despite having told them, repeatedly, that I had no relevant evidence. No matter. The then director rang up my boss and insisted that I was a key witness and must be flown back from the US to give a statement. So I did - and being interviewed after an overnight flight with about 3 hours sleep is no joke. The level of questioning was dire. I told them again what I did not know. They asked me at the end if there were any other matters I did not know about. This was, I am not joking, the actual question. I paused for a long moment and briefly toyed with the idea of telling them that I did not know how to play the violin and knew nothing about quantum physics. But I held back. They drew up a statement. I was scheduled to give evidence. Hours before, the prosecution barrister took one look at the statement and said there was no point as I had no relevant evidence to give.
Hallelujah!
It has not been my only encounter with them. I have not been impressed.
Mind you, the FCA has prosecuted only one case of insider dealing in 3 years and even that is going for a retrial.
We have never got the prosecution of fraud and serious financial crime right in this country, the maximum sentences are far too low and even when you commit extremely serious crimes you never get the maximum anyway. We just don’t take it seriously enough.0 -
MarqueeMark said:
I wondered if he was maybe a well-known jam-maker....Stark_Dawning said:
That was about Brexit was it? I was always a bit puzzled and vaguely assumed he had some strange niche interest he just wanted to share.Dura_Ace said:
Who was that fucking nutter who used to post about what strawberries Waitrose had in stock as some sort of evidence that brexit was going well?FrancisUrquhart said:
When do we start getting into price of tomatos vs oranges?felix said:Most recent poll in Spain shows Ciudadanos increasing it's vote along with Vox while Podemos and PP both drop. PSOE up slightly but overall right and centre right still in the lead overall.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2019_Spanish_general_election
It was raspberries. And where they came from. Mostly focused on Tesco.
Of course if you grow your own you can have both early fruiting and late fruiting ones.
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A bit early in the day for that sort of language!Nigelb said:
Piscatarians.SandyRentool said:
You mean they self-identify as vegetarians despite not being vegetarians.Morris_Dancer said:To be fair, I've heard some vegetarians do still eat fish.
BTW I am still sticking to my self-imposed February DeChox.0 -
And when you come off it, these - https://www.neuhauschocolates.com/en/neuhaus/gift-boxes/belgian-chocolate-moments---orangettes/ - are utterly divine and the only way to celebrate - possibly with a small cup of very good espresso coffee........SandyRentool said:
A bit early in the day for that sort of language!Nigelb said:
Piscatarians.SandyRentool said:
You mean they self-identify as vegetarians despite not being vegetarians.Morris_Dancer said:To be fair, I've heard some vegetarians do still eat fish.
BTW I am still sticking to my self-imposed February DeChox.0 -
But would it? Up until now the average MP's calculation is 52% support leave, and a big chunk of the other 48% accept the result. Result - I have to back leaving.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Recidivist, it'd take a lot more than that, I think, for the petition to have an impact.
But if there is a big chunk of opinion that now favours revocation, that has to make a difference.
Just to be clear, a few hundred thousand wouldn't be enough. And the numbers aren't rising quickly enough to suggest it will get beyond that. But once we are talking million plus we are talking about a few thousand per parliamentary seat. That starts to look important.0 -
Not guilty.Dura_Ace said:
Who was that fucking nutter who used to post about what strawberries Waitrose had in stock as some sort of evidence that brexit was going well?FrancisUrquhart said:
When do we start getting into price of tomatos vs oranges?felix said:Most recent poll in Spain shows Ciudadanos increasing it's vote along with Vox while Podemos and PP both drop. PSOE up slightly but overall right and centre right still in the lead overall.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2019_Spanish_general_election0 -
A Russian flag has appeared briefly on scaffolding outside Salisbury Cathedral. It was spotted by workers early on Sunday but has since been removed.
Can seamus account for his whereabouts?0 -
It was triggered by a story about there being no strawberries at Wimbledon. Complete bollocks, but then so much of what Remainers say is just that.Stark_Dawning said:
That was about Brexit was it? I was always a bit puzzled and vaguely assumed he had some strange niche interest he just wanted to share.Dura_Ace said:
Who was that fucking nutter who used to post about what strawberries Waitrose had in stock as some sort of evidence that brexit was going well?FrancisUrquhart said:
When do we start getting into price of tomatos vs oranges?felix said:Most recent poll in Spain shows Ciudadanos increasing it's vote along with Vox while Podemos and PP both drop. PSOE up slightly but overall right and centre right still in the lead overall.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2019_Spanish_general_election0 -
I see Sky News have tracked down the ISIS woman and child.0
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Oh I agree, Neuhaus make gorgeous chocolates.Cyclefree said:
And when you come off it, these - https://www.neuhauschocolates.com/en/neuhaus/gift-boxes/belgian-chocolate-moments---orangettes/ - are utterly divine and the only way to celebrate - possibly with a small cup of very good espresso coffee........SandyRentool said:
A bit early in the day for that sort of language!Nigelb said:
Piscatarians.SandyRentool said:
You mean they self-identify as vegetarians despite not being vegetarians.Morris_Dancer said:To be fair, I've heard some vegetarians do still eat fish.
BTW I am still sticking to my self-imposed February DeChox.0 -
I wish the media would just let them rot in hell. I hate the way the media pushed the 4 mass murdering psychos as the Beatles.tlg86 said:I see Sky News have tracked down the ISIS woman and child.
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The Sun on Sunday says
LABOUR PULLS LEVEL The Tories have lost a seven-point poll lead — and are now level with Labour
Jeremy Corbyn has helped Labour pick up three points as Theresa May struggles to convince the public of her Brexit plan, pollsters Opinium have found0 -
The Express is saying Nigel Farage has 100000 members for his new party in one week.0
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VM for you.Cyclefree said:MarqueeMark said:
I wondered if he was maybe a well-known jam-maker....Stark_Dawning said:
That was about Brexit was it? I was always a bit puzzled and vaguely assumed he had some strange niche interest he just wanted to share.Dura_Ace said:
Who was that fucking nutter who used to post about what strawberries Waitrose had in stock as some sort of evidence that brexit was going well?FrancisUrquhart said:
When do we start getting into price of tomatos vs oranges?felix said:Most recent poll in Spain shows Ciudadanos increasing it's vote along with Vox while Podemos and PP both drop. PSOE up slightly but overall right and centre right still in the lead overall.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2019_Spanish_general_election
It was raspberries. And where they came from. Mostly focused on Tesco.
Of course if you grow your own you can have both early fruiting and late fruiting ones.0 -
Horseshit....unless by “members” they mean likes on Facebook.Yorkcity said:The Express is saying Nigel Farage has 100000 members for his new party in one week.
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Including Robert Mueller.Yorkcity said:The Express is saying Nigel Farage has 100000 members for his new party in one week.
https://thepinprick.com/2019/02/13/a-small-act-of-defiance-how-i-unleashed-a-ton-of-spam-on-nigel-farages-brexit-party/0 -
970 hours to Brexit...0
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Is it too soon to fire up the barbie?dixiedean said:970 hours to Brexit...
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LOLDura_Ace said:
Who was that fucking nutter who used to post about what strawberries Waitrose had in stock as some sort of evidence that brexit was going well?FrancisUrquhart said:
When do we start getting into price of tomatos vs oranges?felix said:Most recent poll in Spain shows Ciudadanos increasing it's vote along with Vox while Podemos and PP both drop. PSOE up slightly but overall right and centre right still in the lead overall.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2019_Spanish_general_election
PS was it not Pulpstar0 -
Well Brexit must be fucking disaster then. There were no raspberries in Tesco's in Durrington yesterday. None ...MarqueeMark said:
VM for you.Cyclefree said:MarqueeMark said:
I wondered if he was maybe a well-known jam-maker....Stark_Dawning said:
That was about Brexit was it? I was always a bit puzzled and vaguely assumed he had some strange niche interest he just wanted to share.Dura_Ace said:
Who was that fucking nutter who used to post about what strawberries Waitrose had in stock as some sort of evidence that brexit was going well?FrancisUrquhart said:
When do we start getting into price of tomatos vs oranges?felix said:Most recent poll in Spain shows Ciudadanos increasing it's vote along with Vox while Podemos and PP both drop. PSOE up slightly but overall right and centre right still in the lead overall.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2019_Spanish_general_election
It was raspberries. And where they came from. Mostly focused on Tesco.
Of course if you grow your own you can have both early fruiting and late fruiting ones.0 -
At least Mr Rayner remembered to take her our for a McD supper last Thursday.matt said:https://mobile.twitter.com/OldRoberts953/status/1096914704285487104/photo/1
The great hope of the Labour Party.0 -
Charlotte Brunswick in Bath are exceptionally fine chocs too. Their orange worms are top drawer.SandyRentool said:
Oh I agree, Neuhaus make gorgeous chocolates.Cyclefree said:
And when you come off it, these - https://www.neuhauschocolates.com/en/neuhaus/gift-boxes/belgian-chocolate-moments---orangettes/ - are utterly divine and the only way to celebrate - possibly with a small cup of very good espresso coffee........SandyRentool said:
A bit early in the day for that sort of language!Nigelb said:
Piscatarians.SandyRentool said:
You mean they self-identify as vegetarians despite not being vegetarians.Morris_Dancer said:To be fair, I've heard some vegetarians do still eat fish.
BTW I am still sticking to my self-imposed February DeChox.0 -
That's a very fair summary.DavidL said:
Watched episodes 2 and 3 of Europe, 10 years of turmoil, yesterday. Superb series, the BBC at its very best. One lost track of how many things Merkel has managed to misjudge in the last 10 years but of them all the asylum crisis from Syria was probably the worst. And the deal she struck with Turkey without the approval of Tusk or the Council really needs to be thought about when people obsess about how Leave allegedly lied about Turkey's impending accession.FrancisUrquhart said:
Could use it to travel the world rescuing illegal migrants and bringing them back to the UK? I can see Jezza signing off on that plan.DavidL said:
Will it be allowed to go to sea under Corbyn? Seems a bit aggressive. Maybe we could send out cups of tea and digestive biscuits instead.swing_voter said:
By 2021 when the QE sets sail for said region...we may well have a Labour govt under JC - by then this will be long long forgotten.......just sayingExiledInScotland said:
We’ve known that the QE was going to the Pacific for ages. There was an interview with the commanding officer when she was in New York that said so. It was just oversold with stupid language by GW. Combined with his awful voice he has no hope of getting the top jobScott_P said:
But the timing shows how indescribably stupid Williamson is. Hammond's trip to China cancelled so he could arse about something that is absolutely years off? Total prat.
My conclusion was that without her there is no way that Brexit would have happened. Between the rejection of Cameron's attempts at restricting free movement, to the raping of Greece to the deals with Turkey and the mass acceptance of immigrants without any checks on their status or suitability, she really did everything necessary and possible to make it happen.
I think Merkel has been a disaster.0 -
Reading the article it says 35000 joined the first day followed by 10000 a day.FrancisUrquhart said:
Horseshit....unless by “members” they mean likes on Facebook.Yorkcity said:The Express is saying Nigel Farage has 100000 members for his new party in one week.
The new Brexit party if true , would in members be similar to the Conservative party.0 -
There is no way they have 100k people pony up money to join. It has to be likes on Facebook, follow then on twitter and/or filling in some web form.Yorkcity said:
Reading the article it says 35000 joined the first day followed by 10000 a day.FrancisUrquhart said:
Horseshit....unless by “members” they mean likes on Facebook.Yorkcity said:The Express is saying Nigel Farage has 100000 members for his new party in one week.
The new Brexit party if true , would in members be similar to the Conservative party.0 -
Possibly the same people.Yorkcity said:
Reading the article it says 35000 joined the first day followed by 10000 a day.FrancisUrquhart said:
Horseshit....unless by “members” they mean likes on Facebook.Yorkcity said:The Express is saying Nigel Farage has 100000 members for his new party in one week.
The new Brexit party if true , would in members be similar to the Conservative party.0 -
Mr N. Farage.....Recidivist said:
Possibly the same people.Yorkcity said:
Reading the article it says 35000 joined the first day followed by 10000 a day.FrancisUrquhart said:
Horseshit....unless by “members” they mean likes on Facebook.Yorkcity said:The Express is saying Nigel Farage has 100000 members for his new party in one week.
The new Brexit party if true , would in members be similar to the Conservative party.0 -
True I thought the same.FrancisUrquhart said:
There is no way they have 100k people pony up money to join. It has to be likes on Facebook, follow then on twitter and/or filling in some web form.Yorkcity said:
Reading the article it says 35000 joined the first day followed by 10000 a day.FrancisUrquhart said:
Horseshit....unless by “members” they mean likes on Facebook.Yorkcity said:The Express is saying Nigel Farage has 100000 members for his new party in one week.
The new Brexit party if true , would in members be similar to the Conservative party.0 -
Have journalists given up doing basic research any more?
https://www.thebrexitparty.org/
There's two forms here, one that says "Coming Soon. Register Your Interest" and the other that says "Donate to Us" with an external link to a Paypal site to donate a Sterling amount.
There's also a few social media links to "official" Twitter and Facebook pages.
There's no way to become a member and no way to join the party, anyone claiming numbers for either is being very misleading.
A good journalist might be asking, a couple of months down the line, for a list of foreign donors via the Paypal link. I wonder if Paypal can provide the necessary detail on foreign donations to satisfy the Electoral Commission.0 -
FPT SeanT:
Joining or supporting ISIS, to the extent of going out there to be with them, and illegally crossing frontiers to get there (which they all did, provably) should be a serious crime in and of itself.
BUT we should not serve this justice ourselves. These people should be tried, and then acquitted or convicted (and punished), in the sight of their victims, in the land in which they did their crimes. We shouldn't be passively waiting for them to come home, we should be pro-actively handing them over to the nearest acceptable judicial authorities, and if that is not Syria, then let it be Iraq, Kurdistan or Turkey,
Let the raped and slaved Yazidi women, and their genocidally slaughtered menfolk, have their justice. Because THEY were the victims of ISIS in Syria and Iraq. Not us.
We would say the same of an alleged British murderer, rapist, drug-dealer or pedophile in America, Peru or Singapore. We would say: you did the crime there, you must suffer the judicial consequences there. I do not see why British ISIS members should get special treatment.
---------
Belonging to ISIS is indeed now a crime, but it wasn't when she joined them at age 15, and it can't be applied retrospectively. If our allies in the SDF wish to try her for something, they are free to do so. But they, like us, have not shown evidence that she's committed any crimes.
See https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/17/possibility-of-redemption-is-central-to-a-humane-society-shamima-begum
I don't even rely on thinking she might be redeemed. Maybe she'll spend her whole life ranting to anyone who'll listen. I simply think that British people who don't appear to have committed any crimes amd merely have repulsive opinions should be punished by Britain. Because once we start treating people differently if they have wrong ideas, which of us is entirely safe?0 -
Too busy submitting copyright strikes against tech YouTubers for taking the piss out of their poorly researched how to pieces?Sandpit said:Have journalists given up doing basic research any more?
https://www.thebrexitparty.org/
There's two forms here, one that says "Coming Soon. Register Your Interest" and the other that says "Donate to Us" with an external link to a Paypal site to donate a Sterling amount.
There's also a few social media links to "official" Twitter and Facebook pages.
There's no way to become a member and no way to join the party, anyone claiming numbers for either is being very misleading.
A good journalist might be asking, a couple of months down the line, for a list of foreign donors via the Paypal link. I wonder if Paypal can provide the necessary detail on foreign donations to satisfy the Electoral Commission.0 -
I saw the French frigate La Motte-Picquet in Leith harbour this morning. Interested to note that it was flying a Union flag in addition to the French tricolour. Is this simply a sign of respect for the host port?
Or has Her Majesty taken control of the French Navy/Are the French allowing us a timeshare on some of their ships because we can't afford enough of our own after paying for the carriers?
Edit: B - 970.25 hours0 -
Was it a courtesy flag? Not flown from the stern.OblitusSumMe said:I saw the French frigate La Motte-Picquet in Leith harbour this morning. Interested to note that it was flying a Union flag in addition to the French tricolour. Is this simply a sign of respect for the host port?
Or has Her Majesty taken control of the French Navy/Are the French allowing us a timeshare on some of their ships because we can't afford enough of our own after paying for the carriers?
Edit: B - 970.25 hours0 -
Theresa May is facing a fresh showdown with Eurosceptic Conservative MPs after a cabinet minister suggested she may ask parliament to approve her Brexit deal again without having legally removed the Irish backstop from the withdrawal text.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/17/brexit-may-risks-fresh-confrontation-erg-backstop0 -
Nothing....has....changed....IanB2 said:Theresa May is facing a fresh showdown with Eurosceptic Conservative MPs after a cabinet minister suggested she may ask parliament to approve her Brexit deal again without having legally removed the Irish backstop from the withdrawal text.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/17/brexit-may-risks-fresh-confrontation-erg-backstop0 -
The reason the EU have insisted on the two-documents approach is that one of them is a legally binding Treaty and the other isn't.IanB2 said:Theresa May is facing a fresh showdown with Eurosceptic Conservative MPs after a cabinet minister suggested she may ask parliament to approve her Brexit deal again without having legally removed the Irish backstop from the withdrawal text.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/17/brexit-may-risks-fresh-confrontation-erg-backstop
Any changes on the backstop that the EU want to call legally binding need to be in the Treaty - and if they're not in the Treaty then it's not unreasonable for people to expect that they're not legally binding on the EU, or at least that the EU don't consider them to be legally binding on themselves.0 -
I get mine from Charbonnel and Walker. Someone should volunteer to run a pb taste test of chocolate orange peel from various posh shops.MarqueeMark said:
Charlotte Brunswick in Bath are exceptionally fine chocs too. Their orange worms are top drawer.SandyRentool said:
Oh I agree, Neuhaus make gorgeous chocolates.Cyclefree said:
And when you come off it, these - https://www.neuhauschocolates.com/en/neuhaus/gift-boxes/belgian-chocolate-moments---orangettes/ - are utterly divine and the only way to celebrate - possibly with a small cup of very good espresso coffee........SandyRentool said:
A bit early in the day for that sort of language!Nigelb said:
Piscatarians.SandyRentool said:
You mean they self-identify as vegetarians despite not being vegetarians.Morris_Dancer said:To be fair, I've heard some vegetarians do still eat fish.
BTW I am still sticking to my self-imposed February DeChox.0 -
Where would we find such people on Pb?DecrepitJohnL said:
I get mine from Charbonnel and Walker. Someone should volunteer to run a pb taste test of chocolate orange peel from various posh shops.MarqueeMark said:
Charlotte Brunswick in Bath are exceptionally fine chocs too. Their orange worms are top drawer.SandyRentool said:
Oh I agree, Neuhaus make gorgeous chocolates.Cyclefree said:
And when you come off it, these - https://www.neuhauschocolates.com/en/neuhaus/gift-boxes/belgian-chocolate-moments---orangettes/ - are utterly divine and the only way to celebrate - possibly with a small cup of very good espresso coffee........SandyRentool said:
A bit early in the day for that sort of language!Nigelb said:
Piscatarians.SandyRentool said:
You mean they self-identify as vegetarians despite not being vegetarians.Morris_Dancer said:To be fair, I've heard some vegetarians do still eat fish.
BTW I am still sticking to my self-imposed February DeChox.0 -
Fact is May cannot give the ERG and others what they want. They surely know that, and they know what they need to do to stop her offering them things they do not want or she cannot deliver, and really they can both stop this very stupid game where we keep hearing of fresh anger and fresh showdowns. It's just sad.Sandpit said:
The reason the EU have insisted on the two-documents approach is that one of them is a legally binding Treaty and the other isn't.IanB2 said:Theresa May is facing a fresh showdown with Eurosceptic Conservative MPs after a cabinet minister suggested she may ask parliament to approve her Brexit deal again without having legally removed the Irish backstop from the withdrawal text.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/17/brexit-may-risks-fresh-confrontation-erg-backstop
Any changes on the backstop that the EU want to call legally binding need to be in the Treaty - and if they're not in the Treaty then it's not unreasonable for people to expect that they're not legally binding on the EU, or at least that the EU don't consider them to be legally binding on themselves.0 -
No-one can ever give the ERG what they want, since what they want is to oppose whatever they are offered.kle4 said:
Fact is May cannot give the ERG and others what they want. They surely know that, and they know what they need to do to stop her offering them things they do not want or she cannot deliver, and really they can both stop this very stupid game where we keep hearing of fresh anger and fresh showdowns. It's just sad.Sandpit said:
The reason the EU have insisted on the two-documents approach is that one of them is a legally binding Treaty and the other isn't.IanB2 said:Theresa May is facing a fresh showdown with Eurosceptic Conservative MPs after a cabinet minister suggested she may ask parliament to approve her Brexit deal again without having legally removed the Irish backstop from the withdrawal text.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/17/brexit-may-risks-fresh-confrontation-erg-backstop
Any changes on the backstop that the EU want to call legally binding need to be in the Treaty - and if they're not in the Treaty then it's not unreasonable for people to expect that they're not legally binding on the EU, or at least that the EU don't consider them to be legally binding on themselves.
May's strategic error in not facing them down and aiming for a soft Brexit from the beginning is ever more clear.0 -
Not me, but that was not what it was about, and you are not stupid enough to think that it was so I don't know why you think it's funny to pretend to be that stupid. It was about scare stories and how one about strawberries had been used many times.Dura_Ace said:
Who was that fucking nutter who used to post about what strawberries Waitrose had in stock as some sort of evidence that brexit was going well?FrancisUrquhart said:
When do we start getting into price of tomatos vs oranges?felix said:Most recent poll in Spain shows Ciudadanos increasing it's vote along with Vox while Podemos and PP both drop. PSOE up slightly but overall right and centre right still in the lead overall.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2019_Spanish_general_election0 -
Yes, not flown from the stern, but from high up on the radar mast.IanB2 said:
Was it a courtesy flag? Not flown from the stern.OblitusSumMe said:I saw the French frigate La Motte-Picquet in Leith harbour this morning. Interested to note that it was flying a Union flag in addition to the French tricolour. Is this simply a sign of respect for the host port?
Or has Her Majesty taken control of the French Navy/Are the French allowing us a timeshare on some of their ships because we can't afford enough of our own after paying for the carriers?
Edit: B - 970.25 hours0 -
Which is normal protocol for a ship in a foreign port.OblitusSumMe said:
Yes, not flown from the stern, but from as high up on the radar mast.IanB2 said:
Was it a courtesy flag? Not flown from the stern.OblitusSumMe said:I saw the French frigate La Motte-Picquet in Leith harbour this morning. Interested to note that it was flying a Union flag in addition to the French tricolour. Is this simply a sign of respect for the host port?
Or has Her Majesty taken control of the French Navy/Are the French allowing us a timeshare on some of their ships because we can't afford enough of our own after paying for the carriers?
Edit: B - 970.25 hours0 -
Yes, a courtesy flag, although I think a foreign warship should fly the White Ensign as a courtesy, and a foreign merchantman the Red.OblitusSumMe said:
Yes, not flown from the stern, but from as high up on the radar mast.IanB2 said:
Was it a courtesy flag? Not flown from the stern.OblitusSumMe said:I saw the French frigate La Motte-Picquet in Leith harbour this morning. Interested to note that it was flying a Union flag in addition to the French tricolour. Is this simply a sign of respect for the host port?
Or has Her Majesty taken control of the French Navy/Are the French allowing us a timeshare on some of their ships because we can't afford enough of our own after paying for the carriers?
Edit: B - 970.25 hours0 -
Tbf you shouldn't normally expect lots of strawberries in FebruaryDura_Ace said:
Who was that fucking nutter who used to post about what strawberries Waitrose had in stock as some sort of evidence that brexit was going well?FrancisUrquhart said:
When do we start getting into price of tomatos vs oranges?felix said:Most recent poll in Spain shows Ciudadanos increasing it's vote along with Vox while Podemos and PP both drop. PSOE up slightly but overall right and centre right still in the lead overall.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2019_Spanish_general_election0 -
Thanks - one learns something new every day.IanB2 said:
Which is normal protocol for a ship in a foreign port.OblitusSumMe said:
Yes, not flown from the stern, but from as high up on the radar mast.IanB2 said:
Was it a courtesy flag? Not flown from the stern.OblitusSumMe said:I saw the French frigate La Motte-Picquet in Leith harbour this morning. Interested to note that it was flying a Union flag in addition to the French tricolour. Is this simply a sign of respect for the host port?
Or has Her Majesty taken control of the French Navy/Are the French allowing us a timeshare on some of their ships because we can't afford enough of our own after paying for the carriers?
Edit: B - 970.25 hours0 -
SeeOblitusSumMe said:
Thanks - one learns something new every day.IanB2 said:
Which is normal protocol for a ship in a foreign port.OblitusSumMe said:
Yes, not flown from the stern, but from as high up on the radar mast.IanB2 said:
Was it a courtesy flag? Not flown from the stern.OblitusSumMe said:I saw the French frigate La Motte-Picquet in Leith harbour this morning. Interested to note that it was flying a Union flag in addition to the French tricolour. Is this simply a sign of respect for the host port?
Or has Her Majesty taken control of the French Navy/Are the French allowing us a timeshare on some of their ships because we can't afford enough of our own after paying for the carriers?
Edit: B - 970.25 hours
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maritime_flag
And scroll down to the courtesy flag section0 -
(A). It’s normal now. (B) Said nutter also goes on about the evils of holidaying abroad as if a week on the Lincolnshire Riviera is enough for any normal person.FF43 said:
Tbf you shouldn't normally expect lots of strawberries in FebruaryDura_Ace said:
Who was that fucking nutter who used to post about what strawberries Waitrose had in stock as some sort of evidence that brexit was going well?FrancisUrquhart said:
When do we start getting into price of tomatos vs oranges?felix said:Most recent poll in Spain shows Ciudadanos increasing it's vote along with Vox while Podemos and PP both drop. PSOE up slightly but overall right and centre right still in the lead overall.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2019_Spanish_general_election0 -
Astute observation from David Henig. Horse trading between members will deliver more than demands from a third country. The negotiations are of an entirely different nature and the UK hasn't adapted to the new reality.
https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/10970597724347064330 -
The most remarkable thing about the no deal scenario is how many leavers seem to think that the fact that no wolf appeared when a remainer first made the cry is absolute proof that we will be wolf-free when we walk naked into the forest.kle4 said:
Not me, but that was not what it was about, and you are not stupid enough to think that it was so I don't know why you think it's funny to pretend to be that stupid. It was about scare stories and how one about strawberries had been used many times.Dura_Ace said:
Who was that fucking nutter who used to post about what strawberries Waitrose had in stock as some sort of evidence that brexit was going well?FrancisUrquhart said:
When do we start getting into price of tomatos vs oranges?felix said:Most recent poll in Spain shows Ciudadanos increasing it's vote along with Vox while Podemos and PP both drop. PSOE up slightly but overall right and centre right still in the lead overall.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2019_Spanish_general_election0 -
And our attempts to replace being inside with opt-outs with being outside with opt-ins isn't going so well.FF43 said:Astute observation from David Henig. Horse trading between members will deliver more than demands from a third country. The negotiations are of an entirely different nature and the UK hasn't adapted to the new reality.
https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/10970597724347064330 -
While the funny thing with Remainers crying wolf is that every single time it is a case of "this time its different".IanB2 said:
The most remarkable thing about the no deal scenario is how many leavers seem to think that the fact that no wolf appeared when a remainer first made the cry is absolute proof that we will be wolf-free when we walk naked into the forest.kle4 said:
Not me, but that was not what it was about, and you are not stupid enough to think that it was so I don't know why you think it's funny to pretend to be that stupid. It was about scare stories and how one about strawberries had been used many times.Dura_Ace said:
Who was that fucking nutter who used to post about what strawberries Waitrose had in stock as some sort of evidence that brexit was going well?FrancisUrquhart said:
When do we start getting into price of tomatos vs oranges?felix said:Most recent poll in Spain shows Ciudadanos increasing it's vote along with Vox while Podemos and PP both drop. PSOE up slightly but overall right and centre right still in the lead overall.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2019_Spanish_general_election0 -
A comment that adds nothing intelligent to the debate.Philip_Thompson said:
While the funny thing with Remainers crying wolf is that every single time it is a case of "this time its different".IanB2 said:
The most remarkable thing about the no deal scenario is how many leavers seem to think that the fact that no wolf appeared when a remainer first made the cry is absolute proof that we will be wolf-free when we walk naked into the forest.kle4 said:
Not me, but that was not what it was about, and you are not stupid enough to think that it was so I don't know why you think it's funny to pretend to be that stupid. It was about scare stories and how one about strawberries had been used many times.Dura_Ace said:
Who was that fucking nutter who used to post about what strawberries Waitrose had in stock as some sort of evidence that brexit was going well?FrancisUrquhart said:
When do we start getting into price of tomatos vs oranges?felix said:Most recent poll in Spain shows Ciudadanos increasing it's vote along with Vox while Podemos and PP both drop. PSOE up slightly but overall right and centre right still in the lead overall.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2019_Spanish_general_election0 -
IIRC eventually the wolf (or wolves) DID come.IanB2 said:
The most remarkable thing about the no deal scenario is how many leavers seem to think that the fact that no wolf appeared when a remainer first made the cry is absolute proof that we will be wolf-free when we walk naked into the forest.kle4 said:
Not me, but that was not what it was about, and you are not stupid enough to think that it was so I don't know why you think it's funny to pretend to be that stupid. It was about scare stories and how one about strawberries had been used many times.Dura_Ace said:
Who was that fucking nutter who used to post about what strawberries Waitrose had in stock as some sort of evidence that brexit was going well?FrancisUrquhart said:
When do we start getting into price of tomatos vs oranges?felix said:Most recent poll in Spain shows Ciudadanos increasing it's vote along with Vox while Podemos and PP both drop. PSOE up slightly but overall right and centre right still in the lead overall.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2019_Spanish_general_election0 -
Chocolate orange peel! When I were a lad we could have chocolate OR an orange, but not in the same week.DecrepitJohnL said:
I get mine from Charbonnel and Walker. Someone should volunteer to run a pb taste test of chocolate orange peel from various posh shops.MarqueeMark said:
Charlotte Brunswick in Bath are exceptionally fine chocs too. Their orange worms are top drawer.SandyRentool said:
Oh I agree, Neuhaus make gorgeous chocolates.Cyclefree said:
And when you come off it, these - https://www.neuhauschocolates.com/en/neuhaus/gift-boxes/belgian-chocolate-moments---orangettes/ - are utterly divine and the only way to celebrate - possibly with a small cup of very good espresso coffee........SandyRentool said:
A bit early in the day for that sort of language!Nigelb said:
Piscatarians.SandyRentool said:
You mean they self-identify as vegetarians despite not being vegetarians.Morris_Dancer said:To be fair, I've heard some vegetarians do still eat fish.
BTW I am still sticking to my self-imposed February DeChox.0 -
Good afternoon, everyone.0
-
The difference is that with horse-trading, everyone must get something they want and avoid most of the stuff they don't want. So there's a haggle accompanied by copious fudge and it all gets sorted out. As the third country, the UK must give something to every one of the 27 countries, because they all have votes, and there is little to no fudge. The UK has given no thought to what the EU27 want. In particular Graham Brady and his ilk haven't bothered to consider why Ireland might need the backstop. They don't see why they should. What Ireland needs is of no concern to them.IanB2 said:
And our attempts to replace being inside with opt-outs with being outside with opt-ins isn't going so well.FF43 said:Astute observation from David Henig. Horse trading between members will deliver more than demands from a third country. The negotiations are of an entirely different nature and the UK hasn't adapted to the new reality.
https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/10970597724347064330 -
Because for Tories a little more effort from the British Government the Anglo-Irish War could have been won, and there'd have been none of this Republic of Ireland nonsense.FF43 said:
The difference is that with horse-trading, everyone needs to get something they want and avoid most of the stuff they don't want. So there's a haggle accompanied by copious fudge and it all gets sorted out. As the third country, the UK needs to give something to every one of the 27 countries, because they all have votes, and there is little to no fudge. The UK has given no right to what the EU27 want. In particular Graham Brady haven't bothered to consider why Ireland might need the backstop. They don't see why they should. What Ireland needs is of no concern to them.IanB2 said:
And our attempts to replace being inside with opt-outs with being outside with opt-ins isn't going so well.FF43 said:Astute observation from David Henig. Horse trading between members will deliver more than demands from a third country. The negotiations are of an entirely different nature and the UK hasn't adapted to the new reality.
https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/10970597724347064330 -
It was definitely a tongue in cheek comment - I very much appreciate all the effort you and the editors put in to get multiple interesting headers each day!MikeSmithson said:
My apologies. Both TSE and I are away this weekend in locations with no WiFi and almost no mobile connectivity. I've had to walk about 500 metres from where to post this.RobD said:This has to be the worst Sunday thread header in the history of thread headers, perhaps ever
0 -
Miss, Miss: please can I volunteer, please Miss! Pretty please!DecrepitJohnL said:
I get mine from Charbonnel and Walker. Someone should volunteer to run a pb taste test of chocolate orange peel from various posh shops.MarqueeMark said:
Charlotte Brunswick in Bath are exceptionally fine chocs too. Their orange worms are top drawer.SandyRentool said:
Oh I agree, Neuhaus make gorgeous chocolates.Cyclefree said:
And when you come off it, these - https://www.neuhauschocolates.com/en/neuhaus/gift-boxes/belgian-chocolate-moments---orangettes/ - are utterly divine and the only way to celebrate - possibly with a small cup of very good espresso coffee........SandyRentool said:
A bit early in the day for that sort of language!Nigelb said:
Piscatarians.SandyRentool said:
You mean they self-identify as vegetarians despite not being vegetarians.Morris_Dancer said:To be fair, I've heard some vegetarians do still eat fish.
BTW I am still sticking to my self-imposed February DeChox.
My very first ever post on PB many moons ago was about Neuhaus chocolates.
0 -
This sounds like good news for once
https://news.sky.com/story/food-waste-bins-to-be-emptied-weekly-under-refuse-revamp-11639989
But how seriously can we take it?
Didn't Sir Eric Pickles once have a policy of bringing back weekly rubbish collections? And the councils politely told him to **** off?
0 -
Well, they have 7 MEPs at least.FrancisUrquhart said:
Horseshit....unless by “members” they mean likes on Facebook.Yorkcity said:The Express is saying Nigel Farage has 100000 members for his new party in one week.
0 -
We have weekly bin and recycling collection in Redbridge.GIN1138 said:This sounds like good news for once
https://news.sky.com/story/food-waste-bins-to-be-emptied-weekly-under-refuse-revamp-11639989
But how seriously can we take it?
Didn't Sir Eric Pickles once have a policy of bringing back weekly rubbish collections? And the councils politely told him **** off?0 -
You're too harsh on yourself....IanB2 said:
A comment that adds nothing intelligent to the debate.Philip_Thompson said:
While the funny thing with Remainers crying wolf is that every single time it is a case of "this time its different".IanB2 said:
The most remarkable thing about the no deal scenario is how many leavers seem to think that the fact that no wolf appeared when a remainer first made the cry is absolute proof that we will be wolf-free when we walk naked into the forest.kle4 said:
Not me, but that was not what it was about, and you are not stupid enough to think that it was so I don't know why you think it's funny to pretend to be that stupid. It was about scare stories and how one about strawberries had been used many times.Dura_Ace said:
Who was that fucking nutter who used to post about what strawberries Waitrose had in stock as some sort of evidence that brexit was going well?FrancisUrquhart said:
When do we start getting into price of tomatos vs oranges?felix said:Most recent poll in Spain shows Ciudadanos increasing it's vote along with Vox while Podemos and PP both drop. PSOE up slightly but overall right and centre right still in the lead overall.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2019_Spanish_general_election0 -
The Sunil Rocks!Sunil_Prasannan said:
We have weekly bin and recycling collection in Redbridge.GIN1138 said:This sounds like good news for once
https://news.sky.com/story/food-waste-bins-to-be-emptied-weekly-under-refuse-revamp-11639989
But how seriously can we take it?
Didn't Sir Eric Pickles once have a policy of bringing back weekly rubbish collections? And the councils politely told him **** off?
0 -
Yet the typo just sits there...RobD said:
It was definitely a tongue in cheek comment - I very much appreciate all the effort you and the editors put in to get multiple interesting headers each day!MikeSmithson said:
My apologies. Both TSE and I are away this weekend in locations with no WiFi and almost no mobile connectivity. I've had to walk about 500 metres from where to post this.RobD said:This has to be the worst Sunday thread header in the history of thread headers, perhaps ever
0 -
It is not a case of the EU insisting on something which could be done otherwise, for the sake of some strategic calculus.Sandpit said:
The reason the EU have insisted on the two-documents approach is that one of them is a legally binding Treaty and the other isn't.IanB2 said:Theresa May is facing a fresh showdown with Eurosceptic Conservative MPs after a cabinet minister suggested she may ask parliament to approve her Brexit deal again without having legally removed the Irish backstop from the withdrawal text.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/17/brexit-may-risks-fresh-confrontation-erg-backstop
Any changes on the backstop that the EU want to call legally binding need to be in the Treaty - and if they're not in the Treaty then it's not unreasonable for people to expect that they're not legally binding on the EU, or at least that the EU don't consider them to be legally binding on themselves.
The 'two-pronged' approach is derived directly from the legal realities.
The UK is still a member of the EU. To conclude its membership in an orderly fashion a withdrawal agreement needs to be signed before the clock winds down and the UK becomes a third country.
Only then will it be legally possible to conclude any legally binding agreement on the future UK-EU relations, therefor the political declaration cannot possibly be legally binding, as it pertains to that future relations.
0 -
I should add the UK will have to get used to the new take it or take it style of negotiation. The past two plus years of negotiations have been about just three topics: citizens accrued rights, severance payments and the Irish border, of which the last is still unresolved. The major negotiations are still to come: on markets, regulation, cross border movements, ongoing payments, third country relations, UK participation in EU programmes, citizens rights going forward, EUCJ legal oversight. Expect years and years of wrangling. And by the way No Deal, if it happens, will only aggravate that.FF43 said:
The difference is that with horse-trading, everyone must get something they want and avoid most of the stuff they don't want. So there's a haggle accompanied by copious fudge and it all gets sorted out. As the third country, the UK must give something to every one of the 27 countries, because they all have votes, and there is little to no fudge. The UK has given no thought to what the EU27 want. In particular Graham Brady and his ilk haven't bothered to consider why Ireland might need the backstop. They don't see why they should. What Ireland needs is of no concern to them.IanB2 said:
And our attempts to replace being inside with opt-outs with being outside with opt-ins isn't going so well.FF43 said:Astute observation from David Henig. Horse trading between members will deliver more than demands from a third country. The negotiations are of an entirely different nature and the UK hasn't adapted to the new reality.
https://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/10970597724347064330 -
Give that OGH had to hike up the nearest hill to get enough signal to make it for us I'm not too fussedIanB2 said:
Yet the typo just sits there...RobD said:
It was definitely a tongue in cheek comment - I very much appreciate all the effort you and the editors put in to get multiple interesting headers each day!MikeSmithson said:
My apologies. Both TSE and I are away this weekend in locations with no WiFi and almost no mobile connectivity. I've had to walk about 500 metres from where to post this.RobD said:This has to be the worst Sunday thread header in the history of thread headers, perhaps ever
0 -
And how well as that worked out? The months and months spent talking about a scenario both sides didn't want could have been avoided entirely.matthiasfromhamburg said:
It is not a case of the EU insisting on something which could be done otherwise, for the sake of some strategic calculus.Sandpit said:
The reason the EU have insisted on the two-documents approach is that one of them is a legally binding Treaty and the other isn't.IanB2 said:Theresa May is facing a fresh showdown with Eurosceptic Conservative MPs after a cabinet minister suggested she may ask parliament to approve her Brexit deal again without having legally removed the Irish backstop from the withdrawal text.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/17/brexit-may-risks-fresh-confrontation-erg-backstop
Any changes on the backstop that the EU want to call legally binding need to be in the Treaty - and if they're not in the Treaty then it's not unreasonable for people to expect that they're not legally binding on the EU, or at least that the EU don't consider them to be legally binding on themselves.
The 'two-pronged' approach is derived directly from the legal realities.
The UK is still a member of the EU. To conclude its membership in an orderly fashion a withdrawal agreement needs to be signed before the clock winds down and the UK becomes a third country.
Only then will it be legally possible to conclude any legally binding agreement on the future UK-EU relations, therefor the political declaration cannot possibly be legally binding, as it pertains to that future relations.0 -
Is TSE on a Peoples Vote march? 0
-
Or maybe the Dave and George fan club (all three of them) are having a gathering? 0
-
-
There are 4 separate issues here:-NickPalmer said:FPT SeanT:
---------
Belonging to ISIS is indeed now a crime, but it wasn't when she joined them at age 15, and it can't be applied retrospectively. If our allies in the SDF wish to try her for something, they are free to do so. But they, like us, have not shown evidence that she's committed any crimes.
See https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/17/possibility-of-redemption-is-central-to-a-humane-society-shamima-begum
I don't even rely on thinking she might be redeemed. Maybe she'll spend her whole life ranting to anyone who'll listen. I simply think that British people who don't appear to have committed any crimes amd merely have repulsive opinions should be punished by Britain. Because once we start treating people differently if they have wrong ideas, which of us is entirely safe?
1. Has she committed any crimes while in Syria / Iraq or anywhere else she may have been in the last 4 years? We don’t know and it is far too soon to say that there is no evidence that she has not committed any crimes.
2. What is the proper forum for doing such an investigation and prosecuting such crimes? Syria and Iraq not Britain.
3. Has she committed any crimes against British law. Again, we don’t know and that needs a thorough investigation should she end up in Britain.
In theory it is also possible to prosecute her here for crimes committed abroad but in practice it will likely be be impossible to do so - to do an investigation and collect evidence to the required standard of proof for an English court. So those rushing to say that she must be brought back to Britain are, in effect, allowing her to escape justice in the country in which she has chosen to live. That is a repellently arrogant attitude, as if being a British citizen should override all other considerations.
4. If she ends up in Britain, is it in the child’s best interests to be brought up by a woman with her views and attitudes and history. In my view, no.
What I find tiresome and pretty sick-making is the constant “me-me-me” focus by her and her supporters with demands for Britain to get her out of the hole she has dug herself into, with little awareness of the sort of person they are talking about. The narcissistic sense of entitlement is pretty repulsive, frankly.
0 -
https://twitter.com/mark51956936/status/1097142393869123591Cyclefree said:What I find tiresome and pretty sick-making is the constant “me-me-me” focus by her and her supporters with demands for Britain to get her out of the hole she has dug herself into, with little awareness of the sort of person they are talking about. The narcissistic sense of entitlement is pretty repulsive, frankly.
0 -
How would (will?) we deal with a 19 year old man who, for whatever reason, ran away and joined ISIS when he was 15?Cyclefree said:
There are 4 separate issues here:-NickPalmer said:FPT SeanT:
---------
Belonging to ISIS is indeed now a crime, but it wasn't when she joined them at age 15, and it can't be applied retrospectively. If our allies in the SDF wish to try her for something, they are free to do so. But they, like us, have not shown evidence that she's committed any crimes.
See https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/17/possibility-of-redemption-is-central-to-a-humane-society-shamima-begum
I don't even rely on thinking she might be redeemed. Maybe she'll spend her whole life ranting to anyone who'll listen. I simply think that British people who don't appear to have committed any crimes amd merely have repulsive opinions should be punished by Britain. Because once we start treating people differently if they have wrong ideas, which of us is entirely safe?
1. Has she committed any crimes while in Syria / Iraq or anywhere else she may have been in the last 4 years? We don’t know and it is far too soon to say that there is no evidence that she has not committed any crimes.
2. What is the proper forum for doing such an investigation and prosecuting such crimes? Syria and Iraq not Britain.
3. Has she committed any crimes against British law. Again, we don’t know and that needs a thorough investigation should she end up in Britain.
In theory it is also possible to prosecute her here for crimes committed abroad but in practice it will likely be be impossible to do so - to do an investigation and collect evidence to the required standard of proof for an English court. So those rushing to say that she must be brought back to Britain are, in effect, allowing her to escape justice in the country in which she has chosen to live. That is a repellently arrogant attitude, as if being a British citizen should override all other considerations.
4. If she ends up in Britain, is it in the child’s best interests to be brought up by a woman with her views and attitudes and history. In my view, no.
What I find tiresome and pretty sick-making is the constant “me-me-me” focus by her and her supporters with demands for Britain to get her out of the hole she has dug herself into, with little awareness of the sort of person they are talking about. The narcissistic sense of entitlement is pretty repulsive, frankly.
And now wants to come 'home'.
0 -
But is factually accurate.IanB2 said:
A comment that adds nothing intelligent to the debate.Philip_Thompson said:
While the funny thing with Remainers crying wolf is that every single time it is a case of "this time its different".IanB2 said:
The most remarkable thing about the no deal scenario is how many leavers seem to think that the fact that no wolf appeared when a remainer first made the cry is absolute proof that we will be wolf-free when we walk naked into the forest.kle4 said:
Not me, but that was not what it was about, and you are not stupid enough to think that it was so I don't know why you think it's funny to pretend to be that stupid. It was about scare stories and how one about strawberries had been used many times.Dura_Ace said:
Who was that fucking nutter who used to post about what strawberries Waitrose had in stock as some sort of evidence that brexit was going well?FrancisUrquhart said:
When do we start getting into price of tomatos vs oranges?felix said:Most recent poll in Spain shows Ciudadanos increasing it's vote along with Vox while Podemos and PP both drop. PSOE up slightly but overall right and centre right still in the lead overall.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2019_Spanish_general_election0 -
But the Political Statement is, as it says, a political document. Its a sop, essentially, to the UK to give it something beyond the transition period in exchange for giving the EU what it wants in the Withdrawal Agreement. The EU will largely allow the UK to put what it wants in the Political Statement as long as it doesn't contradict the Withdrawal Agreement or bind the EU. It's not completely meaningless as it does imply a direction for the negotiationsmatthiasfromhamburg said:
It is not a case of the EU insisting on something which could be done otherwise, for the sake of some strategic calculus.Sandpit said:
The reason the EU have insisted on the two-documents approach is that one of them is a legally binding Treaty and the other isn't.IanB2 said:Theresa May is facing a fresh showdown with Eurosceptic Conservative MPs after a cabinet minister suggested she may ask parliament to approve her Brexit deal again without having legally removed the Irish backstop from the withdrawal text.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/17/brexit-may-risks-fresh-confrontation-erg-backstop
Any changes on the backstop that the EU want to call legally binding need to be in the Treaty - and if they're not in the Treaty then it's not unreasonable for people to expect that they're not legally binding on the EU, or at least that the EU don't consider them to be legally binding on themselves.
The 'two-pronged' approach is derived directly from the legal realities.
The UK is still a member of the EU. To conclude its membership in an orderly fashion a withdrawal agreement needs to be signed before the clock winds down and the UK becomes a third country.
Only then will it be legally possible to conclude any legally binding agreement on the future UK-EU relations, therefor the political declaration cannot possibly be legally binding, as it pertains to that future relations.0 -
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One (or both) had too much Vino with LunchTheuniondivvie said:The culture wars reach cricket.
https://twitter.com/MarkRamprakash/status/1097153084520845313
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AgreedCasino_Royale said:
That's a very fair summary.DavidL said:
Watched episodes 2 and 3 of Europe, 10 years of turmoil, yesterday. Superb series, the BBC at its very best. One lost track of how many things Merkel has managed to misjudge in the last 10 years but of them all the asylum crisis from Syria was probably the worst. And the deal she struck with Turkey without the approval of Tusk or the Council really needs to be thought about when people obsess about how Leave allegedly lied about Turkey's impending accession.FrancisUrquhart said:
Could use it to travel the world rescuing illegal migrants and bringing them back to the UK? I can see Jezza signing off on that plan.DavidL said:
Will it be allowed to go to sea under Corbyn? Seems a bit aggressive. Maybe we could send out cups of tea and digestive biscuits instead.swing_voter said:
By 2021 when the QE sets sail for said region...we may well have a Labour govt under JC - by then this will be long long forgotten.......just sayingExiledInScotland said:
We’ve known that the QE was going to the Pacific for ages. There was an interview with the commanding officer when she was in New York that said so. It was just oversold with stupid language by GW. Combined with his awful voice he has no hope of getting the top jobScott_P said:
But the timing shows how indescribably stupid Williamson is. Hammond's trip to China cancelled so he could arse about something that is absolutely years off? Total prat.
My conclusion was that without her there is no way that Brexit would have happened. Between the rejection of Cameron's attempts at restricting free movement, to the raping of Greece to the deals with Turkey and the mass acceptance of immigrants without any checks on their status or suitability, she really did everything necessary and possible to make it happen.
I think Merkel has been a disaster.0 -
Never mind wolves, the relevant analogy is the man who has just jumped off the Empire State Building and is saying "LOL at the anti-jumping lobby, we have now fallen ONE HUNDRED STORIES and we are absolutely fine."OldKingCole said:
IIRC eventually the wolf (or wolves) DID come.IanB2 said:
The most remarkable thing about the no deal scenario is how many leavers seem to think that the fact that no wolf appeared when a remainer first made the cry is absolute proof that we will be wolf-free when we walk naked into the forest.kle4 said:
Not me, but that was not what it was about, and you are not stupid enough to think that it was so I don't know why you think it's funny to pretend to be that stupid. It was about scare stories and how one about strawberries had been used many times.Dura_Ace said:
Who was that fucking nutter who used to post about what strawberries Waitrose had in stock as some sort of evidence that brexit was going well?FrancisUrquhart said:
When do we start getting into price of tomatos vs oranges?felix said:Most recent poll in Spain shows Ciudadanos increasing it's vote along with Vox while Podemos and PP both drop. PSOE up slightly but overall right and centre right still in the lead overall.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2019_Spanish_general_election0 -
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/02/17/flybmi-may-not-last-airline-leave-thousands-passengers-stranded/
Yet we were told earlier it was Brexit innit0 -
Why would / why should we waste money and put lives at risk to help such people?OldKingCole said:
How would (will?) we deal with a 19 year old man who, for whatever reason, ran away and joined ISIS when he was 15?Cyclefree said:
There are 4 separate issues here:-NickPalmer said:FPT SeanT:
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See https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/17/possibility-of-redemption-is-central-to-a-humane-society-shamima-begum
I don't even rely on thinking she might be redeemed. Maybe she'll spend her whole life ranting to anyone who'll listen. I simply think that British people who don't appear to have committed any crimes amd merely have repulsive opinions should be punished by Britain. Because once we start treating people differently if they have wrong ideas, which of us is entirely safe?
1. Has she committed any crimes while in Syria / Iraq or anywhere else she may have been in the last 4 years? We don’t know and it is far too soon to say that there is no evidence that she has not committed any crimes.
2. What is the proper forum for doing such an investigation and prosecuting such crimes? Syria and Iraq not Britain.
3. Has she committed any crimes against British law. Again, we don’t know and that needs a thorough investigation should she end up in Britain.
In theory it is also possible to prosecute her here for crimes committed abroad but in practice it will likely be be impossible to do so - to do an investigation and collect evidence to the required standard of proof for an English court. So those rushing to say that she must be brought back to Britain are, in effect, allowing her to escape justice in the country in which she has chosen to live. That is a repellently arrogant attitude, as if being a British citizen should override all other considerations.
4. If she ends up in Britain, is it in the child’s best interests to be brought up by a woman with her views and attitudes and history. In my view, no.
What I find tiresome and pretty sick-making is the constant “me-me-me” focus by her and her supporters with demands for Britain to get her out of the hole she has dug herself into, with little awareness of the sort of person they are talking about. The narcissistic sense of entitlement is pretty repulsive, frankly.
And now wants to come 'home'.
I am rather in favour of the French approach which seems to be rather more hard-headed and is without the feeble sentimentality of some in Britain.
If they end up here we have to deal with them - but I would make no effort to help those who have joined terrorist organizations. There are better priorities. What is the number of threats in this country the police and security services are trying to deal with?0 -
Surely Britain wants to have the jihadi bride somewhere it can keep a close eye on her?0
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Mr. Z, I never get why the Americans use stories/storeys (as in tales versus floors) the other way around from us.
And that's before we get to the ground floor/first floor.0
