politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Corbyn’s Ipsos-MORI ratings take a huge tumble with 72% saying
politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Corbyn’s Ipsos-MORI ratings take a huge tumble with 72% saying they are dissatisfied with him
Corbyn's net Ipsos-MORI satisfaction ratings drop from a net minus 32% to 55%. Chart from @standardnews pic.twitter.com/w7YRizjdmJ
Comments
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First circle of hell.0
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Been here before. Just wait for another election campaign and see what Jezza can do...0
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yes but..... the parties are tied in the opinion poll
(cough cough)0 -
"Historically these ratings have been a better pointer to general election outcomes than the voting intention numbers."
What exactly does this mean?0 -
There was an unfortunate lack of room that meant the article couldn't contain the unimportant voting intentions....Scrapheap_as_was said:yes but..... the parties are tied in the opinion poll
(cough cough)0 -
I don't support the Party on a second referendum or re-joining the EU so the question is to what extent does it or should it matter if a member, activist or candidate doesn't agree with every scintilla of Party policy?Endillion said:
Has she changed her mind? The comment you refer to implied more that her personal position on a key issue clashes somewhat with that of her new political home. In the same way as Tim Farron didn't "change his mind" on certain of his beliefs, just because he became Lib Dem leader - a circle he ultimately failed to square satisfactorily.stodge said:The one thing you can never do now is change your mind. Consistency is everything - I saw for instance a snide comment about Siobhan Benita having at one time been pro-Heathrow expansion and now standing as London Mayor for the anti-expansion LDs.
Oh, the hypocrisy, the inconsistency, the flip-flopping that makes her by definition wholly unsuitable for any public office.
Show me someone who has never changed their mind about anything and I'll show you a fool. I changed my mind on EU membership, I changed my mind a number of times on the nuclear deterrent. Being open to persuasion and listening to reasoned argument seems perfectly reasonable - having a single unflinching position on all things seems unnecessarily rigid.
Having an online history means someone can find what you once said and use it as a weapon against you. That is one of the huge negatives about social media.
Parties, we are often told, are broad churches or loose coalitions and both the current Conservative and Labour parties are fine examples of that.
Within the broad church or a loose coalition there can and should be a tolerance for a range of views. The problem is opponents try to portray a divergence from the official party line as some form of hypocrisy or a negative thing. Very often, it isn't.
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I regard leader ratings as vastly more important and indicative than voting intention surveys. The former are asking for an opinion - unlike the latter.TheJezziah said:
There was an unfortunate lack of room that meant the article couldn't contain the unimportant voting intentions....Scrapheap_as_was said:yes but..... the parties are tied in the opinion poll
(cough cough)
I do report in the header that LAB and CON are tied.
Kinnock and EdM are good examples of LAB leaders with poor leader ratings when the voting intention polling got it wrong.0 -
Last time, of course, Jezza lost - something which his fervent admirers tend to ignore.GIN1138 said:Been here before. Just wait for another election campaign and see what Jezza can do...
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Afternoon all
For those of us dreading the idea of a Saturday having to navigate round Naas, Cagnes Sur Mer and some venues in South Africa, some news:
https://www.racingpost.com/news/equine-flu-outbreak/live-blog-racing-bids-to-recover-from-outbreak-of-equine-flu/365538
The BHA will make a further announcement this afternoon. The question will be to what extent equine flu has got into the thoroughbred population. There are rumours the veterinary services have struggle do cope with the sudden demand for swabs and checks.
Nick Rust spoke of "weeks" this morning which would send a shiver through Cheltenham (Gold Cup day is five weeks away) but there will be huge pressure to re-start racing as soon as possible.
I do think there may be an additional delay until Saturday week.0 -
Yeh, but he got to play Glastonbury.MikeSmithson said:
Last time, of course, Jezza lost - something which his fervent admirers tend to ignore.GIN1138 said:Been here before. Just wait for another election campaign and see what Jezza can do...
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Richest man in the world vs Sleazy tabloid publisher.
Trump involvement.
Fascinating. http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/with-bezos-has-the-enquirer-messed-with-the-wrong-guy-14393882275640 -
You need to look closer.TheJezziah said:
There was an unfortunate lack of room that meant the article couldn't contain the unimportant voting intentions....Scrapheap_as_was said:yes but..... the parties are tied in the opinion poll
(cough cough)
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FPT:
So you could literally go to jail for criticising the Thai PM soon. If we had that law here PB would be mostly made up of lifers posting illicitly from our smuggled mobile phones.Morris_Dancer said:Thailand might have a Princess Prime Minister:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-471673780 -
@TheScreamingEagles @MikeSmithson
My bad!
I went off Scrapheap's reply....
In fairness Corbyn is also a good example of poor leader ratings when the voting intention polling got it wrong.0 -
Not sure I have much sympathy with Bezos with the amount of hit pieces the Washington Post puts out.logical_song said:Richest man in the world vs Sleazy tabloid publisher.
Trump involvement.
Fascinating. http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/with-bezos-has-the-enquirer-messed-with-the-wrong-guy-14393882275640 -
If you'd gone by leader ratings in 1992 you'd have predicted the lib dems would romp home.MikeSmithson said:
I regard leader ratings as vastly more important and indicative than voting intention surveys. The former are asking for an opinion - unlike the latter.TheJezziah said:
There was an unfortunate lack of room that meant the article couldn't contain the unimportant voting intentions....Scrapheap_as_was said:yes but..... the parties are tied in the opinion poll
(cough cough)
I do report in the header that LAB and CON are tied.
Kinnock and EdM are good examples of LAB leaders with poor leader ratings when the voting intention polling got it wrong.0 -
Corbyn is less popular in the UK than Macron is in France!0
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I don't know if we've already covered this, but I thought it was absolutely extraordinary that nearly a tenth of all recorded antisemitic incidents in the UK in 2018 were associated with the Labour Party:
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/feb/07/antisemitic-incidents-uk-record-high-third-year-in-row-community-security-trust
What is even more extraordinary is the denial about it (well illustrated here by some of our Corbyn fans).0 -
Timing is important in politics.
Corbyn has just come up with a very viable compromise on Brexit that unlike May's could have had widespread acceptance. It suits the EU, moderate remainers and fulfils the brief of leaving the EU.
A year ago it would have been a stark contrast to the Tories divisions.
Now I have a feeling that the mood amongst remainers has shifted and that only complete cancellation of Brexit will satisfy them.0 -
Curiously, almost exactly the same percentage are dissatisfied with the government as are dissatisfied with Jeremy Corbyn. That presumably explains why Labour are nevertheless neck and neck with the Conservatives in this poll.0
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PB has always prioritised leader ratings over VI.TheJezziah said:@TheScreamingEagles @MikeSmithson
My bad!
I went off Scrapheap's reply....
In fairness Corbyn is also a good example of poor leader ratings when the voting intention polling got it wrong.
This is my piece a few days before the 2017 general election pointing out Mrs May's ratings were collapsing like the French army in 1940.
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/06/04/the-polling-that-should-worry-mrs-may-and-all-tories/0 -
Charlie Kennedy would be absolutely cleaning up in the current political climate. Such a loss.0
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Only quote about Labour I can findRichard_Nabavi said:I don't know if we've already covered this, but I thought it was absolutely extraordinary that nearly a tenth of all recorded antisemitic incidents in the UK in 2018 were associated with the Labour Party:
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/feb/07/antisemitic-incidents-uk-record-high-third-year-in-row-community-security-trust
What is even more extraordinary is the denial about it (well illustrated here by some of our Corbyn fans).
--------------------------
It also recorded 148 incidents over the year that were explicitly related to arguments over alleged antisemitism in Labour, with 49 in August when there was significant media and political attention on the issue.
--------------------------
So the incidents associated with Labour were related to arguments over alleged anti semitism...
Hmm, not quite the slam dunk it sounded like you were presenting.0 -
And interesting too that respondents are considerably more dissatisfied with the government than with Theresa May.AlastairMeeks said:Curiously, almost exactly the same percentage are dissatisfied with the government as are dissatisfied with Jeremy Corbyn. That presumably explains why Labour are nevertheless neck and neck with the Conservatives in this poll.
That might be caused by the ERG antics and the general disunity and chaos in the Conservative Party, but it might also be partly a conflation of 'the government' and 'MPs as a whole'.0 -
As I said, "What is even more extraordinary is the denial about it (well illustrated here by some of our Corbyn fans)."TheJezziah said:
Only quote about Labour I can findRichard_Nabavi said:I don't know if we've already covered this, but I thought it was absolutely extraordinary that nearly a tenth of all recorded antisemitic incidents in the UK in 2018 were associated with the Labour Party:
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/feb/07/antisemitic-incidents-uk-record-high-third-year-in-row-community-security-trust
What is even more extraordinary is the denial about it (well illustrated here by some of our Corbyn fans).
--------------------------
It also recorded 148 incidents over the year that were explicitly related to arguments over alleged antisemitism in Labour, with 49 in August when there was significant media and political attention on the issue.
--------------------------
So the incidents associated with Labour were related to arguments over alleged anti semitism...
Hmm, not quite the slam dunk it sounded like you were presenting.0 -
El_Capitano said:
Charlie Kennedy would be absolutely cleaning up in the current political climate. Such a loss.
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And how did her lead look prior to any election campaign, much like the situation we are in now?TheScreamingEagles said:
PB has always prioritised leader ratings over VI.TheJezziah said:@TheScreamingEagles @MikeSmithson
My bad!
I went off Scrapheap's reply....
In fairness Corbyn is also a good example of poor leader ratings when the voting intention polling got it wrong.
This is my piece a few days before the 2017 general election pointing out Mrs May's ratings were collapsing like the French army in 1940.
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/06/04/the-polling-that-should-worry-mrs-may-and-all-tories/0 -
There's a fuller account of the antisemitism report here:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/uk-anti-semitism-breaks-record-high-for-3rd-year-in-a-row-says-watchdog/
Some pretty horrendous stuff there.0 -
They were much more impressive in 2017.TheJezziah said:
And how did her lead look prior to any election campaign, much like the situation we are in now?TheScreamingEagles said:
PB has always prioritised leader ratings over VI.TheJezziah said:@TheScreamingEagles @MikeSmithson
My bad!
I went off Scrapheap's reply....
In fairness Corbyn is also a good example of poor leader ratings when the voting intention polling got it wrong.
This is my piece a few days before the 2017 general election pointing out Mrs May's ratings were collapsing like the French army in 1940.
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/06/04/the-polling-that-should-worry-mrs-may-and-all-tories/0 -
Starmer clearly wrote the letter. It sets out a viable, coherent, least worse Brexit option that most voters would support, if not enthusiastically. I’d be very surprised if Corbyn actually believed in much of it. But May will reject it in any case.SeanT said:On topic, it will be interesting to see if his new if ludicrous Soft Brexit letter salvages Jezbollah's reputation on Brexit, and thereby his career.
I think it is likely too late. He has been exposed as, not just a Brexiteer, but as a lying hypocritical Brexiteer, who pretended to be Remainy, when he is about as Leaverish as it gets. Remainers will never forgive or forget, so this has probably done serious, permanent damage to his reputation.
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I quoted the article you linked with the only bit that mentioned Labour. If you don't like what it says maybe find a link that says something more convincing that then were arguments...Richard_Nabavi said:
As I said, "What is even more extraordinary is the denial about it (well illustrated here by some of our Corbyn fans)."TheJezziah said:
Only quote about Labour I can findRichard_Nabavi said:I don't know if we've already covered this, but I thought it was absolutely extraordinary that nearly a tenth of all recorded antisemitic incidents in the UK in 2018 were associated with the Labour Party:
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/feb/07/antisemitic-incidents-uk-record-high-third-year-in-row-community-security-trust
What is even more extraordinary is the denial about it (well illustrated here by some of our Corbyn fans).
--------------------------
It also recorded 148 incidents over the year that were explicitly related to arguments over alleged antisemitism in Labour, with 49 in August when there was significant media and political attention on the issue.
--------------------------
So the incidents associated with Labour were related to arguments over alleged anti semitism...
Hmm, not quite the slam dunk it sounded like you were presenting.
I think we already knew that.0 -
Which is the tallest dwarf is what the polls reflect.AlastairMeeks said:Curiously, almost exactly the same percentage are dissatisfied with the government as are dissatisfied with Jeremy Corbyn. That presumably explains why Labour are nevertheless neck and neck with the Conservatives in this poll.
A new party could do well in this environment - if it wasn't filled with the low grade dross that currently fills Westminster and Holyrood.0 -
Sorry, Standard, but I do not agree that Labour have been led "into the intellectual wilderness".
Unless 'intellectual wilderness' just means disagreeing with George Osborne.0 -
Oh, for heaven's sake: you misunderstood the article. Go and look up the original report if you are interested in the truth. You are not, of course. The absolute last thing you want to hear is the truth about this issue.TheJezziah said:
I quoted the article you linked with the only bit that mentioned Labour. If you don't like what it says maybe find a link that says something more convincing that then were arguments...Richard_Nabavi said:
As I said, "What is even more extraordinary is the denial about it (well illustrated here by some of our Corbyn fans)."TheJezziah said:
Only quote about Labour I can findRichard_Nabavi said:I don't know if we've already covered this, but I thought it was absolutely extraordinary that nearly a tenth of all recorded antisemitic incidents in the UK in 2018 were associated with the Labour Party:
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/feb/07/antisemitic-incidents-uk-record-high-third-year-in-row-community-security-trust
What is even more extraordinary is the denial about it (well illustrated here by some of our Corbyn fans).
--------------------------
It also recorded 148 incidents over the year that were explicitly related to arguments over alleged antisemitism in Labour, with 49 in August when there was significant media and political attention on the issue.
--------------------------
So the incidents associated with Labour were related to arguments over alleged anti semitism...
Hmm, not quite the slam dunk it sounded like you were presenting.
I think we already knew that.0 -
It is hard to argue we aren't in deja vu, if May goes then things change but as it stands nobody would be surprised to see those figures change if we went into an election campaign now.TheScreamingEagles said:
They were much more impressive in 2017.TheJezziah said:
And how did her lead look prior to any election campaign, much like the situation we are in now?TheScreamingEagles said:
PB has always prioritised leader ratings over VI.TheJezziah said:@TheScreamingEagles @MikeSmithson
My bad!
I went off Scrapheap's reply....
In fairness Corbyn is also a good example of poor leader ratings when the voting intention polling got it wrong.
This is my piece a few days before the 2017 general election pointing out Mrs May's ratings were collapsing like the French army in 1940.
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/06/04/the-polling-that-should-worry-mrs-may-and-all-tories/
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What that means, is that people defending Labour against charges of anti-semitism, couldn't manage it without saying anti-semitic things themselves .TheJezziah said:
Only quote about Labour I can findRichard_Nabavi said:I don't know if we've already covered this, but I thought it was absolutely extraordinary that nearly a tenth of all recorded antisemitic incidents in the UK in 2018 were associated with the Labour Party:
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/feb/07/antisemitic-incidents-uk-record-high-third-year-in-row-community-security-trust
What is even more extraordinary is the denial about it (well illustrated here by some of our Corbyn fans).
--------------------------
It also recorded 148 incidents over the year that were explicitly related to arguments over alleged antisemitism in Labour, with 49 in August when there was significant media and political attention on the issue.
--------------------------
So the incidents associated with Labour were related to arguments over alleged anti semitism...
Hmm, not quite the slam dunk it sounded like you were presenting.
Note that it doesn't necessarily imply that those individuals were members of the Labour party, but quite clearly they are mostly supporters of it.0 -
Yes he would but not for that reason. This is when the LibDems need chat show Charlie because their real problem is they are no longer our third-largest party. The SNP is. And the DUP are roughly the same size and far more important. The LibDems need a leader who can tell jokes on the chat shows and panel games because the politics and current affairs producers are no longer required to call them.El_Capitano said:Charlie Kennedy would be absolutely cleaning up in the current political climate. Such a loss.
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If there were to be an imminent snap election, I think the result would largely depend on how receptive the public is to hearing about things other than Brexit.
If they decide that it's a huge, imminent issue and so naturally it has to dominate the election, then Labour's position excited no-one and pisses a lot of their base off. A dramatic pivot to 2nd referendum might help them... or not. I don't know if they'd have any good options, really.
On the other hand, if the public decides that politicians have been yammering on about arcane legal technicalities for far too long and they'd really like to hear about literally anything else for a while, I suspect that would hugely play to Labour's advantage and very much wrong-foot May.0 -
Don't think he needs your sympathy.Pulpstar said:
Not sure I have much sympathy with Bezos with the amount of hit pieces the Washington Post puts out.logical_song said:Richest man in the world vs Sleazy tabloid publisher.
Trump involvement.
Fascinating. http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/with-bezos-has-the-enquirer-messed-with-the-wrong-guy-1439388227564
Besides I'd rather believe the Washington Post to the National Enquirer.0 -
Does it mean that?Endillion said:
What that means, is that people defending Labour against charges of anti-semitism, couldn't manage it without saying anti-semitic things themselves .TheJezziah said:
Only quote about Labour I can findRichard_Nabavi said:I don't know if we've already covered this, but I thought it was absolutely extraordinary that nearly a tenth of all recorded antisemitic incidents in the UK in 2018 were associated with the Labour Party:
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/feb/07/antisemitic-incidents-uk-record-high-third-year-in-row-community-security-trust
What is even more extraordinary is the denial about it (well illustrated here by some of our Corbyn fans).
--------------------------
It also recorded 148 incidents over the year that were explicitly related to arguments over alleged antisemitism in Labour, with 49 in August when there was significant media and political attention on the issue.
--------------------------
So the incidents associated with Labour were related to arguments over alleged anti semitism...
Hmm, not quite the slam dunk it sounded like you were presenting.
Note that it doesn't necessarily imply that those individuals were members of the Labour party, but quite clearly they are mostly supporters of it.
I'm not sure why they put the word alleged in there then?
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0
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You’ll never win an election if the leader of the party is viewed more unfavorably than the party itself . Starmer would be wiping the floor with May if he was Labour leader . How long will the Corbyn groupies remain in a fantasy ?
As a Labour supporter the current situation is very painful!0 -
Maybe people are cottoning onto the fact that our political class as a whole are remarkably unimpressive at the moment? As El Capitano points out below Kennedy would be cleaning up now. As would John Smith, Major, Ashdown, Blair, Heseltine possibly even Kinnock or Brown. I could continue the list...AlastairMeeks said:Curiously, almost exactly the same percentage are dissatisfied with the government as are dissatisfied with Jeremy Corbyn. That presumably explains why Labour are nevertheless neck and neck with the Conservatives in this poll.
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The golden rule to remember is that there is no evidence of anti-Semitism inside Labour that apologists for anti-Semitism inside Labour will ever accept.Richard_Nabavi said:
Oh, for heaven's sake: you misunderstood the article. Go and look up the original report if you are interested in the truth. You are not, of course. The absolute last thing you want to hear is the truth about this issue.TheJezziah said:
I quoted the article you linked with the only bit that mentioned Labour. If you don't like what it says maybe find a link that says something more convincing that then were arguments...Richard_Nabavi said:
As I said, "What is even more extraordinary is the denial about it (well illustrated here by some of our Corbyn fans)."TheJezziah said:
Only quote about Labour I can findRichard_Nabavi said:I don't know if we've already covered this, but I thought it was absolutely extraordinary that nearly a tenth of all recorded antisemitic incidents in the UK in 2018 were associated with the Labour Party:
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/feb/07/antisemitic-incidents-uk-record-high-third-year-in-row-community-security-trust
What is even more extraordinary is the denial about it (well illustrated here by some of our Corbyn fans).
--------------------------
It also recorded 148 incidents over the year that were explicitly related to arguments over alleged antisemitism in Labour, with 49 in August when there was significant media and political attention on the issue.
--------------------------
So the incidents associated with Labour were related to arguments over alleged anti semitism...
Hmm, not quite the slam dunk it sounded like you were presenting.
I think we already knew that.
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"How long will the Corbyn groupies remain in a fantasy ?"nico67 said:You’ll never win an election if the leader of the party is viewed more unfavorably than the party itself . Starmer would be wiping the floor with May if he was Labour leader . How long will the Corbyn groupies remain in a fantasy ?
As a Labour supporter the current situation is very painful!
Until Labour are slaughtered in a GE.
Even then I wonder.
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OT/Admin -- the posts counter seems to be doing its own thing. I was just marvelling at my 10,001st post, when it changed to my 10,002nd.0
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It's very normal for front-line politicians to have net negative ratings, because they will generally get negative ratings from supporters of other parties in nearly all circumstances, and they'll also get some negative ratings from supporters of their own party for being too centrist or not very effective or too extreme or whatever. Overlaid on that you've got dissatisfaction on Brexit (cutting across party lines), and a hung parliament which makes it even harder.SeanT said:
Is there any significant politician left in the country who has big, net, positive approval ratings? i.e. do we now hate all of them?Richard_Nabavi said:
And interesting too that respondents are considerably more dissatisfied with the government than with Theresa May.AlastairMeeks said:Curiously, almost exactly the same percentage are dissatisfied with the government as are dissatisfied with Jeremy Corbyn. That presumably explains why Labour are nevertheless neck and neck with the Conservatives in this poll.
That might be caused by the ERG antics and the general disunity and chaos in the Conservative Party, but it might also be partly a conflation of 'the government' and 'MPs as a whole'.
Bojo used to be popular, likewise Sturgeon. But both have taken serious knocks, and are now disliked.
Is there anyone else? Ruth Davidson maybe, if she counts as significant? Any others?0 -
I quoted the only bit that mentioned Labour.Richard_Nabavi said:
Oh, for heaven's sake: you misunderstood the article. Go and look up the original report if you are interested in the truth. You are not, of course. The absolute last thing you want to hear is the truth about this issue.TheJezziah said:
I quoted the article you linked with the only bit that mentioned Labour. If you don't like what it says maybe find a link that says something more convincing that then were arguments...Richard_Nabavi said:
As I said, "What is even more extraordinary is the denial about it (well illustrated here by some of our Corbyn fans)."TheJezziah said:
Only quote about Labour I can findRichard_Nabavi said:I don't know if we've already covered this, but I thought it was absolutely extraordinary that nearly a tenth of all recorded antisemitic incidents in the UK in 2018 were associated with the Labour Party:
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/feb/07/antisemitic-incidents-uk-record-high-third-year-in-row-community-security-trust
What is even more extraordinary is the denial about it (well illustrated here by some of our Corbyn fans).
--------------------------
It also recorded 148 incidents over the year that were explicitly related to arguments over alleged antisemitism in Labour, with 49 in August when there was significant media and political attention on the issue.
--------------------------
So the incidents associated with Labour were related to arguments over alleged anti semitism...
Hmm, not quite the slam dunk it sounded like you were presenting.
I think we already knew that.
If you disagree with the bit that mentions Labour then it seems silly to make it part of your evidence. You are a Tory partisan you don't give a damn about racism, the only reason you pretend to misread what the article said in regard to Labour is to make a crack at Labour, don't make up rubbish about wanting the truth.0 -
But Corbyn supporters don't agree with Starmer's politics.nico67 said:You’ll never win an election if the leader of the party is viewed more unfavorably than the party itself . Starmer would be wiping the floor with May if he was Labour leader . How long will the Corbyn groupies remain in a fantasy ?
As a Labour supporter the current situation is very painful!0 -
TBH I just agreed with the article Richard linked, usually people aren't quite so upset when you agree with their links... maybe he didn't read it first...SouthamObserver said:
The golden rule to remember is that there is no evidence of anti-Semitism inside Labour that apologists for anti-Semitism inside Labour will ever accept.Richard_Nabavi said:
Oh, for heaven's sake: you misunderstood the article. Go and look up the original report if you are interested in the truth. You are not, of course. The absolute last thing you want to hear is the truth about this issue.TheJezziah said:
I quoted the article you linked with the only bit that mentioned Labour. If you don't like what it says maybe find a link that says something more convincing that then were arguments...Richard_Nabavi said:
As I said, "What is even more extraordinary is the denial about it (well illustrated here by some of our Corbyn fans)."TheJezziah said:
Only quote about Labour I can findRichard_Nabavi said:I don't know if we've already covered this, but I thought it was absolutely extraordinary that nearly a tenth of all recorded antisemitic incidents in the UK in 2018 were associated with the Labour Party:
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/feb/07/antisemitic-incidents-uk-record-high-third-year-in-row-community-security-trust
What is even more extraordinary is the denial about it (well illustrated here by some of our Corbyn fans).
--------------------------
It also recorded 148 incidents over the year that were explicitly related to arguments over alleged antisemitism in Labour, with 49 in August when there was significant media and political attention on the issue.
--------------------------
So the incidents associated with Labour were related to arguments over alleged anti semitism...
Hmm, not quite the slam dunk it sounded like you were presenting.
I think we already knew that.0 -
It's a 'Darkness at Noon' moment potentially.SeanT said:
Bloody Zio. Get back to Tel Aviv. Corbyn smearer Israel-lover. Etc.rottenborough said:Lansman backs Berger:
https://twitter.com/jonlansman/status/10938098547608002590 -
By the way, do any of the people here who constantly complain about Vince Cable's crapness have any suggestions about what he should be doing differently?0
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Starmer is a realist who looks and sounds like someone who knows what he’s doing , he’d also salvage some of the over 65 vote which is crucial to win an election .Stereotomy said:
But Corbyn supporters don't agree with Starmer's politics.nico67 said:You’ll never win an election if the leader of the party is viewed more unfavorably than the party itself . Starmer would be wiping the floor with May if he was Labour leader . How long will the Corbyn groupies remain in a fantasy ?
As a Labour supporter the current situation is very painful!0 -
Actually I was completely astonished by the scale of the problem associated with Labour. Accounting for nearly a tenth of all recorded incidents was far more than I would have expected.TheJezziah said:I quoted the only bit that mentioned Labour.
If you disagree with the bit that mentions Labour then it seems silly to make it part of your evidence. You are a Tory partisan you don't give a damn about racism, the only reason you pretend to misread what the article said in regard to Labour is to make a crack at Labour, don't make up rubbish about wanting the truth.
Throwing idiotic insults at me won't alter the facts, I'm afraid, and merely confirms your denial of the issue.0 -
I mean, I don't disagree. But until I hear what he's doing wrong and why it's stifling the lib dem comeback, complaints about Vince seem like a fig-leaf for centrist remainers who are in denial about how unpopular their worldview currently is.SeanT said:
Yes, he should be retiring from frontline politics.Stereotomy said:By the way, do any of the people here who constantly complain about Vince Cable's crapness have any suggestions about what he should be doing differently?
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I can never tell if you're doing this on purpose or not.TheJezziah said:
Does it mean that?Endillion said:
What that means, is that people defending Labour against charges of anti-semitism, couldn't manage it without saying anti-semitic things themselves .TheJezziah said:
Only quote about Labour I can findRichard_Nabavi said:I don't know if we've already covered this, but I thought it was absolutely extraordinary that nearly a tenth of all recorded antisemitic incidents in the UK in 2018 were associated with the Labour Party:
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/feb/07/antisemitic-incidents-uk-record-high-third-year-in-row-community-security-trust
What is even more extraordinary is the denial about it (well illustrated here by some of our Corbyn fans).
--------------------------
It also recorded 148 incidents over the year that were explicitly related to arguments over alleged antisemitism in Labour, with 49 in August when there was significant media and political attention on the issue.
--------------------------
So the incidents associated with Labour were related to arguments over alleged anti semitism...
Hmm, not quite the slam dunk it sounded like you were presenting.
Note that it doesn't necessarily imply that those individuals were members of the Labour party, but quite clearly they are mostly supporters of it.
I'm not sure why they put the word alleged in there then?
Ok, let's try this:
Step 1: There is a series of stories in the national press about alleged anti-semitism within the Labour party
Step 2: Indignant Corbynites take to Twitter to protest that this isn't and can't be true
Step 3: A number of posts made during Step 2 are reported to the CST, who conclude that the posts contain anti-semitism
I saw a horrendous number of tweets last summer suggesting ant-semitism was fine/impossible because Jews have loads of money and control the media...
Also, if you're looking at the CST report, the size of the word "Labour" in the word cloud on page 43 is somewhat depressing.0 -
I think the problem is that no-one else wants the job of LibDem leader - they don't have many MPs and most of them have valid reasons for not wanting to be leader....Stereotomy said:
I mean, I don't disagree. But until I hear what he's doing wrong and why it's stifling the lib dem comeback, complaints about Vince seem like a fig-leaf for centrist remainers who are in denial about how unpopular their worldview currently is.SeanT said:
Yes, he should be retiring from frontline politics.Stereotomy said:By the way, do any of the people here who constantly complain about Vince Cable's crapness have any suggestions about what he should be doing differently?
0 -
Quite right.DecrepitJohnL said:
Yes he would but not for that reason. This is when the LibDems need chat show Charlie because their real problem is they are no longer our third-largest party. The SNP is. And the DUP are roughly the same size and far more important. The LibDems need a leader who can tell jokes on the chat shows and panel games because the politics and current affairs producers are no longer required to call them.El_Capitano said:Charlie Kennedy would be absolutely cleaning up in the current political climate. Such a loss.
0 -
You'll get no argument from me on that. It's an interesting counterfactual to consider what would have happened had Kennedy avoided the demons which engulfed him. The truth was the LDs struggled as soon as Cameron became Conservative leader - from then on until the first debate of the 2010 GE the Party was consistently on the defensive.El_Capitano said:Charlie Kennedy would be absolutely cleaning up in the current political climate. Such a loss.
As for Vince, he is and always has been viewed as a transitional leader. Initially, most people in the party thought Jo Swinson would take over but Layla Moran has altered the dynamic somewhat.
Vince will stay through 29/3 - if we exit with a Deal I think he will stand down before the next Conference. If it's a No Deal and a period of renewed instability kicks off that may well change.
0 -
As I occasionaly point out, Christopher Choose is an elderly man who has gone out of his way to enable upskirting and FGM, and has proferred inconsistent and dubious reasons for doing so.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Oh I see -- it counts the total number of posts. It is a property of the poster, not the post. TIL.DecrepitJohnL said:OT/Admin -- the posts counter seems to be doing its own thing. I was just marvelling at my 10,001st post, when it changed to my 10,002nd.
0 -
The report mentions Labour a grand total of 24 times.TheJezziah said:
I quoted the only bit that mentioned Labour.Richard_Nabavi said:
Oh, for heaven's sake: you misunderstood the article. Go and look up the original report if you are interested in the truth. You are not, of course. The absolute last thing you want to hear is the truth about this issue.TheJezziah said:
I quoted the article you linked with the only bit that mentioned Labour. If you don't like what it says maybe find a link that says something more convincing that then were arguments...Richard_Nabavi said:
As I said, "What is even more extraordinary is the denial about it (well illustrated here by some of our Corbyn fans)."TheJezziah said:
Only quote about Labour I can findRichard_Nabavi said:I don't know if we've already covered this, but I thought it was absolutely extraordinary that nearly a tenth of all recorded antisemitic incidents in the UK in 2018 were associated with the Labour Party:
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/feb/07/antisemitic-incidents-uk-record-high-third-year-in-row-community-security-trust
What is even more extraordinary is the denial about it (well illustrated here by some of our Corbyn fans).
--------------------------
It also recorded 148 incidents over the year that were explicitly related to arguments over alleged antisemitism in Labour, with 49 in August when there was significant media and political attention on the issue.
--------------------------
So the incidents associated with Labour were related to arguments over alleged anti semitism...
Hmm, not quite the slam dunk it sounded like you were presenting.
I think we already knew that.
If you disagree with the bit that mentions Labour then it seems silly to make it part of your evidence. You are a Tory partisan you don't give a damn about racism, the only reason you pretend to misread what the article said in regard to Labour is to make a crack at Labour, don't make up rubbish about wanting the truth.0 -
I'd have thought an increase in media attention on antisemitism would cause an increase in antisemitic Twitter messages from antisemites across the political spectrum.Endillion said:
I can never tell if you're doing this on purpose or not.TheJezziah said:
Does it mean that?Endillion said:
What that means, is that people defending Labour against charges of anti-semitism, couldn't manage it without saying anti-semitic things themselves .TheJezziah said:
Only quote about Labour I can findRichard_Nabavi said:I don't know if we've already covered this, but I thought it was absolutely extraordinary that nearly a tenth of all recorded antisemitic incidents in the UK in 2018 were associated with the Labour Party:
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/feb/07/antisemitic-incidents-uk-record-high-third-year-in-row-community-security-trust
What is even more extraordinary is the denial about it (well illustrated here by some of our Corbyn fans).
--------------------------
It also recorded 148 incidents over the year that were explicitly related to arguments over alleged antisemitism in Labour, with 49 in August when there was significant media and political attention on the issue.
--------------------------
So the incidents associated with Labour were related to arguments over alleged anti semitism...
Hmm, not quite the slam dunk it sounded like you were presenting.
Note that it doesn't necessarily imply that those individuals were members of the Labour party, but quite clearly they are mostly supporters of it.
I'm not sure why they put the word alleged in there then?
Ok, let's try this:
Step 1: There is a series of stories in the national press about alleged anti-semitism within the Labour party
Step 2: Indignant Corbynites take to Twitter to protest that this isn't and can't be true
Step 3: A number of posts made during Step 2 are reported to the CST, who conclude that the posts contain anti-semitism
I saw a horrendous number of tweets last summer suggesting ant-semitism was fine/impossible because Jews have loads of money and control the media...
Also, if you're looking at the CST report, the size of the word "Labour" in the word cloud on page 43 is somewhat depressing.0 -
Resign? He's not competent and doesn't need the money any more.Stereotomy said:By the way, do any of the people here who constantly complain about Vince Cable's crapness have any suggestions about what he should be doing differently?
0 -
Does Starmer have any politics? Genuine question. As a former DPP and the lawyer brought in to lead on Brexit, I, for one, am totally unaware of where he stands within the Party on any other issue.Stereotomy said:
But Corbyn supporters don't agree with Starmer's politics.nico67 said:You’ll never win an election if the leader of the party is viewed more unfavorably than the party itself . Starmer would be wiping the floor with May if he was Labour leader . How long will the Corbyn groupies remain in a fantasy ?
As a Labour supporter the current situation is very painful!
Has he ever voiced any opinion on health, education or the economy? Is he on the right, centre or soft left of the Party?0 -
He's the gammon's gammon.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
You were shocked that there were arguments in Labour relating to alleged anti semitism?Richard_Nabavi said:
Actually I was completely astonished by the scale of the problem associated with Labour. Accounting for nearly a tenth of all recorded incidents was far more than I would have expected.TheJezziah said:I quoted the only bit that mentioned Labour.
If you disagree with the bit that mentions Labour then it seems silly to make it part of your evidence. You are a Tory partisan you don't give a damn about racism, the only reason you pretend to misread what the article said in regard to Labour is to make a crack at Labour, don't make up rubbish about wanting the truth.
Throwing idiotic insults at me won't alter the facts, I'm afraid, and merely confirms your denial of the issue.
You know I have to question that, there clearly have been arguments...I am pretty sure you would have noticed them and discussed them on PB. You can deny what the article you linked says but it just looks a bit silly and I haven't got a problem with what the article says, no denial here. I even mentioned what it says in this post.
0 -
And she’s on maternity leave... surely she has to say something meaningful about Brexit before the end of March?SeanT said:This YouGov article agrees with me. The most significant politician in the country with noticeable net approval ratings is Ruth Davidson. You have to look quite hard for any others.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2018/11/06/boris-and-pm-are-britains-most-popular-politicians0 -
The first problem is a lack of energy. Cable isn't a bad politician though he's still a bit tainted by the Coalition. But the most visible Lib Dems in the media right now are (in order) Layla Moran, Tom Brake, Jo Swinson, and only then Cable. When your education spokesman is more visible than your leader, you know that you've got issues with the leader.Stereotomy said:
I mean, I don't disagree. But until I hear what he's doing wrong and why it's stifling the lib dem comeback, complaints about Vince seem like a fig-leaf for centrist remainers who are in denial about how unpopular their worldview currently is.SeanT said:
Yes, he should be retiring from frontline politics.Stereotomy said:By the way, do any of the people here who constantly complain about Vince Cable's crapness have any suggestions about what he should be doing differently?
The second problem is a failure to articulate what the Lib Dems stand for other than being anti-Brexit. Labour is for an interventionist state and universal benefits. The Conservatives under May are for social authoritarianism, low intervention in business, and nativism. What do Cable's Lib Dems believe? Are they interventionist or laissez-faire? Will they, say, invest in the railways like Labour, or try and reduce their demands on the public purse like the Tories? I couldn't even tell you and I'm expecting to vote Lib Dem at the May locals.0 -
The article is what me and Richard were discussing, he seems to have a problem with what the article he linked says about Labour and is claiming I am in denial for agreeing with it.Endillion said:
The report mentions Labour a grand total of 24 times.TheJezziah said:
I quoted the only bit that mentioned Labour.Richard_Nabavi said:
Oh, for heaven's sake: you misunderstood the article. Go and look up the original report if you are interested in the truth. You are not, of course. The absolute last thing you want to hear is the truth about this issue.TheJezziah said:
I quoted the article you linked with the only bit that mentioned Labour. If you don't like what it says maybe find a link that says something more convincing that then were arguments...Richard_Nabavi said:
As I said, "What is even more extraordinary is the denial about it (well illustrated here by some of our Corbyn fans)."TheJezziah said:
Only quote about Labour I can findRichard_Nabavi said:I don't know if we've already covered this, but I thought it was absolutely extraordinary that nearly a tenth of all recorded antisemitic incidents in the UK in 2018 were associated with the Labour Party:
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/feb/07/antisemitic-incidents-uk-record-high-third-year-in-row-community-security-trust
What is even more extraordinary is the denial about it (well illustrated here by some of our Corbyn fans).
--------------------------
It also recorded 148 incidents over the year that were explicitly related to arguments over alleged antisemitism in Labour, with 49 in August when there was significant media and political attention on the issue.
--------------------------
So the incidents associated with Labour were related to arguments over alleged anti semitism...
Hmm, not quite the slam dunk it sounded like you were presenting.
I think we already knew that.
If you disagree with the bit that mentions Labour then it seems silly to make it part of your evidence. You are a Tory partisan you don't give a damn about racism, the only reason you pretend to misread what the article said in regard to Labour is to make a crack at Labour, don't make up rubbish about wanting the truth.0 -
Mmmm. And she isn't an MP. Which speaks to something I would say.SeanT said:This YouGov article agrees with me. The most significant politician in the country with noticeable net approval ratings is Ruth Davidson. You have to look quite hard for any others.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2018/11/06/boris-and-pm-are-britains-most-popular-politicians0 -
-
It goes both ways though. Even if Corbyn led Labour to a 1931-in-reverse avalanche victory he'd still remain a fringe and useless figure to certain people, just as he would remain an infallible figure to certain other people if he led Labour to a 1931-style avalanche defeat.rottenborough said:
"How long will the Corbyn groupies remain in a fantasy ?"nico67 said:You’ll never win an election if the leader of the party is viewed more unfavorably than the party itself . Starmer would be wiping the floor with May if he was Labour leader . How long will the Corbyn groupies remain in a fantasy ?
As a Labour supporter the current situation is very painful!
Until Labour are slaughtered in a GE.
Even then I wonder.
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GODSDAMMIT! The elderly upskirting fan is Chope not Choose! I want an edit button!0
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More specifically, his entire reputation rests upon being the champion of the rank and file memberships' view in opposition to the party's previous leadership. Meeting such a significant issue where his own personal views are dramatically out of line with the overwhelming view of his membership was always going to be salutary.SeanT said:On topic, it will be interesting to see if his new if ludicrous Soft Brexit letter salvages Jezbollah's reputation on Brexit, and thereby his career.
I think it is likely too late. He has been exposed as, not just a Brexiteer, but as a lying hypocritical Brexiteer, who pretended to be Remainy, when he is about as Leaverish as it gets. Remainers will never forgive or forget, so this has probably done serious, permanent damage to his reputation.0 -
He told you to go look up the original report. I can only echo that, and add that you should pay particular attention to page 41.TheJezziah said:
The article is what me and Richard were discussing, he seems to have a problem with what the article he linked says about Labour and is claiming I am in denial for agreeing with it.Endillion said:
The report mentions Labour a grand total of 24 times.TheJezziah said:
I quoted the only bit that mentioned Labour.Richard_Nabavi said:
Oh, for heaven's sake: you misunderstood the article. Go and look up the original report if you are interested in the truth. You are not, of course. The absolute last thing you want to hear is the truth about this issue.TheJezziah said:
I quoted the article you linked with the only bit that mentioned Labour. If you don't like what it says maybe find a link that says something more convincing that then were arguments...Richard_Nabavi said:
As I said, "What is even more extraordinary is the denial about it (well illustrated here by some of our Corbyn fans)."TheJezziah said:
Only quote about Labour I can findRichard_Nabavi said:I don't know if we've already covered this, but I thought it was absolutely extraordinary that nearly a tenth of all recorded antisemitic incidents in the UK in 2018 were associated with the Labour Party:
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/feb/07/antisemitic-incidents-uk-record-high-third-year-in-row-community-security-trust
What is even more extraordinary is the denial about it (well illustrated here by some of our Corbyn fans).
--------------------------
It also recorded 148 incidents over the year that were explicitly related to arguments over alleged antisemitism in Labour, with 49 in August when there was significant media and political attention on the issue.
--------------------------
So the incidents associated with Labour were related to arguments over alleged anti semitism...
Hmm, not quite the slam dunk it sounded like you were presenting.
I think we already knew that.
If you disagree with the bit that mentions Labour then it seems silly to make it part of your evidence. You are a Tory partisan you don't give a damn about racism, the only reason you pretend to misread what the article said in regard to Labour is to make a crack at Labour, don't make up rubbish about wanting the truth.
https://cst.org.uk/public/data/file/2/9/Incidents Report 2018 - web.pdf
0 -
Surely saying nothing is a perfect articulation of what they stand for. Their rallying cry is "Can't we all just go back to a few years ago when things were nicer?"El_Capitano said:
The first problem is a lack of energy. Cable isn't a bad politician though he's still a bit tainted by the Coalition. But the most visible Lib Dems in the media right now are (in order) Layla Moran, Tom Brake, Jo Swinson, and only then Cable. When your education spokesman is more visible than your leader, you know that you've got issues with the leader.Stereotomy said:
I mean, I don't disagree. But until I hear what he's doing wrong and why it's stifling the lib dem comeback, complaints about Vince seem like a fig-leaf for centrist remainers who are in denial about how unpopular their worldview currently is.SeanT said:
Yes, he should be retiring from frontline politics.Stereotomy said:By the way, do any of the people here who constantly complain about Vince Cable's crapness have any suggestions about what he should be doing differently?
The second problem is a failure to articulate what the Lib Dems stand for other than being anti-Brexit. Labour is for an interventionist state and universal benefits. The Conservatives under May are for social authoritarianism, low intervention in business, and nativism. What do Cable's Lib Dems believe? Are they interventionist or laissez-faire? Will they, say, invest in the railways like Labour, or try and reduce their demands on the public purse like the Tories? I couldn't even tell you and I'm expecting to vote Lib Dem at the May locals.
As for visibility, I think the problem might be that they have a simple, clear, almost-universally-agreed-on stance on Brexit. Which is boring. The splits and strife in the Tory and Labour parties dominate the news. This puts the Lib Dems in a similar position to the SNP, who you also rarely hear from on Brexit (except the occasional boring statement nobody remembers or cares about).0 -
One of the upcoming women need to step up to the plate. Then he can go.viewcode said:
Resign? He's not competent and doesn't need the money any more.Stereotomy said:By the way, do any of the people here who constantly complain about Vince Cable's crapness have any suggestions about what he should be doing differently?
0 -
DIODIR - do it once, do it right. This is what one of my old big bosses at Lehman Bros used to preach. And 'preach' was the word. He even used to hand out paperweights with that (DIODIR) written on them.SeanT said:See I wrote "reject" twice in the same paragraph. That's shoddy English, and I would normally and quickly amend it. But I can't, because no Edit button.
This is bad. It is going to make PB much less euphonious. Comments with glaring errors, prosodical, political and statistical, will litter the page like dog poo.
Can we have the EDIT button back, please. Thanks.
What a prat, that guy was.0 -
She's popular in the same way Ken Clarke is - anodyne, middle of the road and doesn't offend the foaming mouthed Labour hordes as much as other Conservatives.SeanT said:This YouGov article agrees with me. The most significant politician in the country with noticeable net approval ratings is Ruth Davidson. You have to look quite hard for any others.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2018/11/06/boris-and-pm-are-britains-most-popular-politicians
Could such a wet big government type ever lead the Con party ? Let's hope not.0 -
I literally looked it up yesterday and I still don't rememberAnorak said:0 -
Indeed - but he denied the Tories an overall majority - something not achieved by Gaitskell , Callaghan, Foot, Kinnock and Milliband. He also managed the biggest jump in popular vote share since 1945 and easily outpolled Blair's 2005 share.MikeSmithson said:
Last time, of course, Jezza lost - something which his fervent admirers tend to ignore.GIN1138 said:Been here before. Just wait for another election campaign and see what Jezza can do...
0 -
What is the actual question here?Endillion said:
I can never tell if you're doing this on purpose or not.TheJezziah said:
Ok, let's try this:
Step 1: There is a series of stories in the national press about alleged anti-semitism within the Labour party
Step 2: Indignant Corbynites take to Twitter to protest that this isn't and can't be true
Step 3: A number of posts made during Step 2 are reported to the CST, who conclude that the posts contain anti-semitism
I saw a horrendous number of tweets last summer suggesting ant-semitism was fine/impossible because Jews have loads of money and control the media...
Also, if you're looking at the CST report, the size of the word "Labour" in the word cloud on page 43 is somewhat depressing.
I have never claimed there is no anti semitism in Labour, less than the Tories or say UKIP but certainly not none. People being abusive online is pretty much a given unfortunately, from and to all groups.
There has been no concrete evidence of Labour members doing more racist abuse. Work I have seen on abuse given to MPs for example points to Diane Abbott getting more abuse than any other woman MPs.
Diane is a favourite of Conservatives.
0 -
Nudging up your count by talking to yourself really shouldnt countDecrepitJohnL said:
Oh I see -- it counts the total number of posts. It is a property of the poster, not the post. TIL.DecrepitJohnL said:OT/Admin -- the posts counter seems to be doing its own thing. I was just marvelling at my 10,001st post, when it changed to my 10,002nd.
0 -
0
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Clarke was one of the best chancellors this country had - and one of the best prime ministers we didn't.TGOHF said:
She's popular in the same way Ken Clarke is - anodyne, middle of the road and doesn't offend the foaming mouthed Labour hordes as much as other Conservatives.SeanT said:This YouGov article agrees with me. The most significant politician in the country with noticeable net approval ratings is Ruth Davidson. You have to look quite hard for any others.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2018/11/06/boris-and-pm-are-britains-most-popular-politicians
Could such a wet big government type ever lead the Con party ? Let's hope not.
He still makes the Tory cabinet look like pygmies.0 -
He only told me that after he decided he didn't like what the article he linked was saying, just looks a little hypocritical that he liked the article until I pointed out what it said then because it didn't smear Labour liked he hoped I was in denial for agreeing with it.Endillion said:
He told you to go look up the original report. I can only echo that, and add that you should pay particular attention to page 41.TheJezziah said:
The article is what me and Richard were discussing, he seems to have a problem with what the article he linked says about Labour and is claiming I am in denial for agreeing with it.Endillion said:
The report mentions Labour a grand total of 24 times.TheJezziah said:
I quoted the only bit that mentioned Labour.Richard_Nabavi said:
Oh, for heaven's sake: you misunderstood the article. Go and look up the original report if you are interested in the truth. You are not, of course. The absolute last thing you want to hear is the truth about this issue.TheJezziah said:
I quoted the article you linked with the only bit that mentioned Labour. If you don't like what it says maybe find a link that says something more convincing that then were arguments...Richard_Nabavi said:
As I said, "What is even more extraordinary is the denial about it (well illustrated here by some of our Corbyn fans)."TheJezziah said:Richard_Nabavi said:
I think we already knew that.
If you disagree with the bit that mentions Labour then it seems silly to make it part of your evidence. You are a Tory partisan you don't give a damn about racism, the only reason you pretend to misread what the article said in regard to Labour is to make a crack at Labour, don't make up rubbish about wanting the truth.
https://cst.org.uk/public/data/file/2/9/Incidents Report 2018 - web.pdf0 -
Admit it Sean, you have the hots for her.SeanT said:
He's my MP. I have always perceived him as highly careerist, first, and soft left, second. He was a horribly PC DPP. He's also extremely wooden, and bad on TV, I'm not sure why Labourites see him as a saviour, apart from outright desperation.dixiedean said:
Does Starmer have any politics? Genuine question. As a former DPP and the lawyer brought in to lead on Brexit, I, for one, am totally unaware of where he stands within the Party on any other issue.Stereotomy said:
But Corbyn supporters don't agree with Starmer's politics.nico67 said:You’ll never win an election if the leader of the party is viewed more unfavorably than the party itself . Starmer would be wiping the floor with May if he was Labour leader . How long will the Corbyn groupies remain in a fantasy ?
As a Labour supporter the current situation is very painful!
Has he ever voiced any opinion on health, education or the economy? Is he on the right, centre or soft left of the Party?
I'll say it again, Thornberry is their best choice, on so many levels. She riles people, but the people she riles don't matter. I don't think core Labour voters in the North really care about her flag insult.
She's competent, she's smart, she's quite articulate, she's a woman (finally, a woman leader of Labour) she's got a decent backstory, she will appeal to centrists and Don't Knows, and the middle classes in the south, she is also just about leftwing enough to satisfy most Corbynites.
She's a Remainer who would push for, and accept, a very Soft Brexit.
I think if she were leading Labour they would be 10 points ahead.
If they were led by Ed Balls they would probably be 15-20 points ahead, but he would never be accepted by the lunatic membership.0 -
Did he have a rubber on the end of his pencil? Because...kinabalu said:
DIODIR - do it once, do it right. This is what one of my old big bosses at Lehman Bros used to preach. And 'preach' was the word. He even used to hand out paperweights with that (DIODIR) written on them.SeanT said:See I wrote "reject" twice in the same paragraph. That's shoddy English, and I would normally and quickly amend it. But I can't, because no Edit button.
This is bad. It is going to make PB much less euphonious. Comments with glaring errors, prosodical, political and statistical, will litter the page like dog poo.
Can we have the EDIT button back, please. Thanks.
What a prat, that guy was. 0 -
Clarke would have been most lefties choice for the Con leader.Nigelb said:
Clarke was one of the best chancellors this country had - and one of the best prime ministers we didn't.TGOHF said:
She's popular in the same way Ken Clarke is - anodyne, middle of the road and doesn't offend the foaming mouthed Labour hordes as much as other Conservatives.SeanT said:This YouGov article agrees with me. The most significant politician in the country with noticeable net approval ratings is Ruth Davidson. You have to look quite hard for any others.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2018/11/06/boris-and-pm-are-britains-most-popular-politicians
Could such a wet big government type ever lead the Con party ? Let's hope not.
He still makes the Tory cabinet look like pygmies.
His Europhilia however is bizarre - almost a cult like devotion.0 -
If we are going by Yougov Politician ratings then Corbyn is the highest rated Labour politician.dixiedean said:
Mmmm. And she isn't an MP. Which speaks to something I would say.SeanT said:This YouGov article agrees with me. The most significant politician in the country with noticeable net approval ratings is Ruth Davidson. You have to look quite hard for any others.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2018/11/06/boris-and-pm-are-britains-most-popular-politicians
So the perfect person to lead Labour is.... Corbyn.
Couldn't agree more.
https://yougov.co.uk/ratings/overview(popup:ratings/politics/labour-politicians/all)0 -
I like Vince Cable as a politician but I think the problem with his leadership is lack of brio.viewcode said:Resign? He's not competent and doesn't need the money any more.
He is 75, and while I would be delighted to reach that age in his apparent condition, I do think that he has 'gone over' and needs to be handing over the torch quite soon.0 -
Too fat though. Britain will never elect a fat female PM anytime soon.SeanT said:
He's my MP. I have always perceived him as highly careerist, first, and soft left, second. He was a horribly PC DPP. He's also extremely wooden, and bad on TV, I'm not sure why Labourites see him as a saviour, apart from outright desperation.dixiedean said:
Does Starmer have any politics? Genuine question. As a former DPP and the lawyer brought in to lead on Brexit, I, for one, am totally unaware of where he stands within the Party on any other issue.Stereotomy said:
But Corbyn supporters don't agree with Starmer's politics.nico67 said:You’ll never win an election if the leader of the party is viewed more unfavorably than the party itself . Starmer would be wiping the floor with May if he was Labour leader . How long will the Corbyn groupies remain in a fantasy ?
As a Labour supporter the current situation is very painful!
Has he ever voiced any opinion on health, education or the economy? Is he on the right, centre or soft left of the Party?
I'll say it again, Thornberry is their best choice, on so many levels. She riles people, but the people she riles don't matter. I don't think core Labour voters in the North really care about her flag insult.
She's competent, she's smart, she's quite articulate, she's a woman (finally, a woman leader of Labour) she's got a decent backstory, she will appeal to centrists and Don't Knows, and the middle classes in the south, she is also just about leftwing enough to satisfy most Corbynites.
She's a Remainer who would push for, and accept, a very Soft Brexit.
I think if she were leading Labour they would be 10 points ahead.
If they were led by Ed Balls they would probably be 15-20 points ahead, but he would never be accepted by the lunatic membership.
And a horrendous PC London luvvie who will forever be judge by her flag tweet which showed how out of touch she is. Kryptonite north of Luton0 -
abbreviations.com has six meanings, one of them being Fluorocarbon Based Plasma Etching, and another 'Follow Back Pro EU'.Stereotomy said:
I literally looked it up yesterday and I still don't rememberAnorak said:
Does that help.0 -
Don't know what happened but you have to copy all that bottom sentence into webbar to get the right page with Labour politicians rankings.0
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@TheJezziah
apologies for long post:
"For example, the last week of March 2018 saw renewed focus on Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn’s past support for a graffiti artist called Mear One, who had painted an allegedly antisemitic mural in Tower Hamlets in 2012 (Corbyn objected to the removal of the mural by Tower Hamlets council). This led to a demonstration held outside Parliament and an open letter to Corbyn from Jewish community leadership bodies in late March. Representatives of those same Jewish organisations (including CST) subsequently met Corbyn and his leadership team in late April 2018. This period saw sustained and prominent media and political debate about the question of antisemitism in the Labour Party, and about the broader issue of antisemitism in British society. CST recorded the highest and second-highest monthly antisemitic incident totals for the year in May and April respectively. Similarly, in August a series of allegations of antisemitic behaviour by Labour Party members and by Jeremy Corbyn himself attracted widespread media coverage. There was also an ongoing dispute during the summer of 2018 over whether the party would adopt the International Holocaust Remembrance Association (IHRA) definition of antisemitism (this continued into early September, when the party decided to adopt the definition). These factors may help to explain why the number of antisemitic incidents reported to CST rose from 130 in July 2018 to 150 incidents in August. "
24 mentions of "Labour" in the report.0 -
Don't encourage him - he already has.Peter_the_Punter said:
Admit it Sean, you have the hots for her.SeanT said:
He's my MP. I have always perceived him as highly careerist, first, and soft left, second. He was a horribly PC DPP. He's also extremely wooden, and bad on TV, I'm not sure why Labourites see him as a saviour, apart from outright desperation.dixiedean said:
Does Starmer have any politics? Genuine question. As a former DPP and the lawyer brought in to lead on Brexit, I, for one, am totally unaware of where he stands within the Party on any other issue.Stereotomy said:
But Corbyn supporters don't agree with Starmer's politics.nico67 said:You’ll never win an election if the leader of the party is viewed more unfavorably than the party itself . Starmer would be wiping the floor with May if he was Labour leader . How long will the Corbyn groupies remain in a fantasy ?
As a Labour supporter the current situation is very painful!
Has he ever voiced any opinion on health, education or the economy? Is he on the right, centre or soft left of the Party?
I'll say it again, Thornberry is their best choice, on so many levels. She riles people, but the people she riles don't matter. I don't think core Labour voters in the North really care about her flag insult.
She's competent, she's smart, she's quite articulate, she's a woman (finally, a woman leader of Labour) she's got a decent backstory, she will appeal to centrists and Don't Knows, and the middle classes in the south, she is also just about leftwing enough to satisfy most Corbynites.
She's a Remainer who would push for, and accept, a very Soft Brexit.
I think if she were leading Labour they would be 10 points ahead.
If they were led by Ed Balls they would probably be 15-20 points ahead, but he would never be accepted by the lunatic membership.0
