politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » FBI officers in Florida make pre-dawn raid to arrest Trump ass

DavidL said:

Nigelb said:

DavidL said:

kinabalu said:

DavidL said:

So if I sent a "well done" text to Ole Gunnar Solskjaer for his revival of United's disastrous season I would be "looped in" to Man U?

Colour me unconvinced.

No. The analogy would be that you are a 'consultant' for Man Utd and you receive a text message from a close associate of the Glazers saying "well done" immediately after wikileaks has released a bunch of dirt on Chelsea.

Is this persuasive evidence that Man Utd were looped in to an attempt to discredit Chelsea?

On the face of it, yes.

Not sure it is. Welcoming something is not the same as causing it. But there may be more to it.

If the Glazers had spent the previous couple of weeks publicly calling for Wikileaks to release the dirt...

Nope, still not a causal connection (and what could people possibly say about Chelsea that could possibly make people think worse of them anyway?)

And this ?

https://www.justice.gov/file/1124706/download
12. After the July 22, 2016 release of stolen DNC emails by Organization 1, a senior Trump Campaign official was directed to contact STONE about any additional releases and what other damaging information Organization 1 had regarding the Clinton Campaign. STONE thereafter told the Trump Campaign about potential future releases of damaging material by Organization 1. 13. STONE also corresponded with associates about contacting Organization 1 in order to obtain additional emails damaging to the Clinton Campaign.
a. On or about July 25, 2016, STONE sent an email to Person 1 with the subject line, “Get to [the head of Organization 1].” The body of the message read, “Get to [the head of Organization 1] [a]t Ecuadorian Embassy in London and get the pending [Organization 1] emails . . . they deal with Foundation, allegedly.”...

Richard_Nabavi said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/DavidHerdson/status/1088797271179886592

My, even David has run out of patience...

I've reached that point as well.

When it is impossible to differentiate between Trots, idiotic nationalist, and some Brexit Tories you have to start re-evaluating stuff.

Honestly if I wanted to fuck business/ruin the British economy I would have joined the Labour party.

Nigel_Foremain said:

Casino_Royale said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Casino_Royale said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

OblitusSumMe said:

Much as I'd like to see Trump in court and then doing prison time it isn't going to undo what has happened over the last couple of years.

Aye. I fear Trump in the first of many white nationalist Presidents.

I hope you are wrong. I see Trump and Brexit as the last hurrahs in the death throws of the international hatred filled disease called nationalism

There are no last hurrahs.

This is part of the new politics that is going to be with us, now, for some time. As will the ideologically internationalist on the other side.

No, nationalism is fundamentally intellectually bankrupt, and when people begin to feel its effects in the aftermath of Trump and his trade wars and the damage caused by Brexit, it will be consigned back to the basket case that it belongs in, for at least another 50 years when it will remerge again when people have forgotten the hatred and damage it causes. We will have to live with its stupidity for another 10 years. Hopefully it does not allow its equally damaging cousin socialism to creep in as a phony antidote.

You might want it to be so, but it won’t happen. Things like nations and religions are a fundamental part of people’s identities - giving them belonging, structure and meaning to their lives - and abolishing it is as about as feasible as abolishing human nature itself.

You confuse, or deliberately conflate, nationalism with patriotism. Nationalism is patriotism's thicko brother.

I would certainly describe myself as a patriot rather than a nationalist.

I mean nationalism in it’s original sense - national-ist, someone who believes in a world of nation states of those who share a common identity - rather than the 1930s polished jackboot kind.

MarqueeMark said:

Anorak said:

DavidL said:

So if I sent a "well done" text to Ole Gunnar Solskjaer for his revival of United's disastrous season I would be "looped in" to Man U?

Colour me unconvinced. Of course this does not mean that he has not done things for or on behalf of the Donald that Mueller would find of interest. Trump is getting to be quite a dangerous man to know.

If he has sufficient evidence for the witness-tampering to be a slam-dunk, Stone is going to roll quicker than a, well, rolling stone.

I have no sympathy for the devil.

Mueller's going to get some satisfaction out of this, I think.

gypsumfantastic said:

MarqueeMark said:

Anorak said:

DavidL said:

So if I sent a "well done" text to Ole Gunnar Solskjaer for his revival of United's disastrous season I would be "looped in" to Man U?

Colour me unconvinced. Of course this does not mean that he has not done things for or on behalf of the Donald that Mueller would find of interest. Trump is getting to be quite a dangerous man to know.

If he has sufficient evidence for the witness-tampering to be a slam-dunk, Stone is going to roll quicker than a, well, rolling stone.

I have no sympathy for the devil.

Carries a penalty of up to 20 years in the US. And y'all thought Manafort was in some deep shit.

But are they looking at multiple state jurisdictions again, or can Trump just give a Federal pardon?

Sean_F said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Casino_Royale said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

OblitusSumMe said:

Much as I'd like to see Trump in court and then doing prison time it isn't going to undo what has happened over the last couple of years.

Aye. I fear Trump in the first of many white nationalist Presidents.

I hope you are wrong. I see Trump and Brexit as the last hurrahs in the death throws of the international hatred filled disease called nationalism

There are no last hurrahs.

This is part of the new politics that is going to be with us, now, for some time. As will the ideologically internationalist on the other side.

No, nationalism is fundamentally intellectually bankrupt, and when people begin to feel its effects in the aftermath of Trump and his trade wars and the damage caused by Brexit, it will be consigned back to the basket case that it belongs in, for at least another 50 years when it will remerge again when people have forgotten the hatred and damage it causes. We will have to live with its stupidity for another 10 years. Hopefully it does not allow its equally damaging cousin socialism to creep in as a phony antidote.

People want to believe in something other than making money.

So, socialism, religious fundamentalism, and nationalism are very much with us for the foreseeable future.

I hope not, but fear you might be right. They are the combined opiates of the (less educated) people

https://twitter.com/joshscampbell/status/1088796534093733889

Anorak said:

MarqueeMark said:

Anorak said:

DavidL said:

So if I sent a "well done" text to Ole Gunnar Solskjaer for his revival of United's disastrous season I would be "looped in" to Man U?

Colour me unconvinced. Of course this does not mean that he has not done things for or on behalf of the Donald that Mueller would find of interest. Trump is getting to be quite a dangerous man to know.

If he has sufficient evidence for the witness-tampering to be a slam-dunk, Stone is going to roll quicker than a, well, rolling stone.

I have no sympathy for the devil.

Mueller's going to get some satisfaction out of this, I think.

Mueller seems to be getting his kicks from it all

Nigel_Foremain said:

Sean_F said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Casino_Royale said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

OblitusSumMe said:

Much as I'd like to see Trump in court and then doing prison time it isn't going to undo what has happened over the last couple of years.

Aye. I fear Trump in the first of many white nationalist Presidents.

I hope you are wrong. I see Trump and Brexit as the last hurrahs in the death throws of the international hatred filled disease called nationalism

There are no last hurrahs.

This is part of the new politics that is going to be with us, now, for some time. As will the ideologically internationalist on the other side.

No, nationalism is fundamentally intellectually bankrupt, and when people begin to feel its effects in the aftermath of Trump and his trade wars and the damage caused by Brexit, it will be consigned back to the basket case that it belongs in, for at least another 50 years when it will remerge again when people have forgotten the hatred and damage it causes. We will have to live with its stupidity for another 10 years. Hopefully it does not allow its equally damaging cousin socialism to creep in as a phony antidote.

People want to believe in something other than making money.

So, socialism, religious fundamentalism, and nationalism are very much with us for the foreseeable future.

I hope not, but fear you might be right. They are the combined opiates of the (less educated) people

There's a self-interested side to human nature, and an idealistic side. Political and religious ideology appeals to the latter.

gypsumfantastic said:

DavidL said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/DavidHerdson/status/1088797271179886592

There really, really needs to be a clear out from both sides.

Revolution it is then.

Aux armes, citoyens!

I'm going to have to buy a hi-viz jacket aren't I? I wonder if George has any spares left over from all those construction sites he used to visit.

Nigel_Foremain said:

Anorak said:

MarqueeMark said:

Anorak said:

DavidL said:

So if I sent a "well done" text to Ole Gunnar Solskjaer for his revival of United's disastrous season I would be "looped in" to Man U?

Colour me unconvinced. Of course this does not mean that he has not done things for or on behalf of the Donald that Mueller would find of interest. Trump is getting to be quite a dangerous man to know.

If he has sufficient evidence for the witness-tampering to be a slam-dunk, Stone is going to roll quicker than a, well, rolling stone.

I have no sympathy for the devil.

Mueller's going to get some satisfaction out of this, I think.

Mueller seems to be getting his kicks from it all

Still, you can't always get what you want, but in this particular case, I think he'll get what he needs.

MarqueeMark said:

Anorak said:

DavidL said:

So if I sent a "well done" text to Ole Gunnar Solskjaer for his revival of United's disastrous season I would be "looped in" to Man U?

Colour me unconvinced. Of course this does not mean that he has not done things for or on behalf of the Donald that Mueller would find of interest. Trump is getting to be quite a dangerous man to know.

If he has sufficient evidence for the witness-tampering to be a slam-dunk, Stone is going to roll quicker than a, well, rolling stone.

I have no sympathy for the devil.

How could you possibly say such a thing?
https://www.bing.com/search?FORM=SLBRDF&pc=SL16&q=sympathy for the devil

Just brilliant.

Casino_Royale said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Casino_Royale said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Casino_Royale said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

OblitusSumMe said:

Much as I'd like to see Trump in court and then doing prison time it isn't going to undo what has happened over the last couple of years.

Aye. I fear Trump in the first of many white nationalist Presidents.

I hope you are wrong. I see Trump and Brexit as the last hurrahs in the death throws of the international hatred filled disease called nationalism

There are no last hurrahs.

This is part of the new politics that is going to be with us, now, for some time. As will the ideologically internationalist on the other side.

No, nationalism is fundamentally intellectually bankrupt, and when people begin to feel its effects in the aftermath of Trump and his trade wars and the damage caused by Brexit, it will be consigned back to the basket case that it belongs in, for at least another 50 years when it will remerge again when people have forgotten the hatred and damage it causes. We will have to live with its stupidity for another 10 years. Hopefully it does not allow its equally damaging cousin socialism to creep in as a phony antidote.

You might want it to be so, but it won’t happen. Things like nations and religions are a fundamental part of people’s identities - giving them belonging, structure and meaning to their lives - and abolishing it is as about as feasible as abolishing human nature itself.

You confuse, or deliberately conflate, nationalism with patriotism. Nationalism is patriotism's thicko brother.

I would certainly describe myself as a patriot rather than a nationalist.

I mean nationalism in it’s original sense - national-ist, someone who believes in a world of nation states of those who share a common identity - rather than the 1930s polished jackboot kind.

That is admirable, though having seen many of your posts, I would say you speak with the fervour of a nationalist, albeit not to the extreme of Mark Francois MP

Nigel_Foremain said:

Casino_Royale said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Casino_Royale said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

Casino_Royale said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

OblitusSumMe said:

Much as I'd like to see Trump in court and then doing prison time it isn't going to undo what has happened over the last couple of years.

Aye. I fear Trump in the first of many white nationalist Presidents.

I hope you are wrong. I see Trump and Brexit as the last hurrahs in the death throws of the international hatred filled disease called nationalism

There are no last hurrahs.

This is part of the new politics that is going to be with us, now, for some time. As will the ideologically internationalist on the other side.

No, nationalism is fundamentally intellectually bankrupt, and when people begin to feel its effects in the aftermath of Trump and his trade wars and the damage caused by Brexit, it will be consigned back to the basket case that it belongs in, for at least another 50 years when it will remerge again when people have forgotten the hatred and damage it causes. We will have to live with its stupidity for another 10 years. Hopefully it does not allow its equally damaging cousin socialism to creep in as a phony antidote.

You might want it to be so, but it won’t happen. Things like nations and religions are a fundamental part of people’s identities - giving them belonging, structure and meaning to their lives - and abolishing it is as about as feasible as abolishing human nature itself.

You confuse, or deliberately conflate, nationalism with patriotism. Nationalism is patriotism's thicko brother.

I would certainly describe myself as a patriot rather than a nationalist.

I mean nationalism in it’s original sense - national-ist, someone who believes in a world of nation states of those who share a common identity - rather than the 1930s polished jackboot kind.

That is admirable, though having seen many of your posts, I would say you speak with the fervour of a nationalist, albeit not to the extreme of Mark Francois MP

Well, you’ve misunderstood me if that’s the case.

But thank you.

Good afternoon, everyone.

The time is almost ripe. Soon the nation will welcome their new enormo-haddock overlords...

kinabalu said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

No, nationalism is fundamentally intellectually bankrupt, and when people begin to feel its effects in the aftermath of Trump and his trade wars and the damage caused by Brexit, it will be consigned back to the basket case that it belongs in, for at least another 50 years when it will remerge again when people have forgotten the hatred and damage it causes. We will have to live with its stupidity for another 10 years.

I too take a dim view of nationalism, but I exempt from this the form of it which manifests as a non-violent political struggle for self-determination on behalf of a territory which believes with some justification that it merits full independent nation status.

The SNP, for example, I do not bracket with the BNP.

I disagree. The SNP is not benign, though it likes to give the impression it is. It has some very sinister undertones that are based on classical hatred themes that are so typical of nationalism and where it crosses into fascism. It also has a pretty unpleasant history with strong links to European fascism in the 30s. The bile that is spewed by the couple of SNP supporters that come on here if anyone criticises them is indicative. Irish nationalism, while its violence is repugnant, is based on a genuine history of repression and underrepresentation. Scottish nationalism cannot make this excuse. Scotland has been massively overrepresented in British government, and Scottish subjects were very strongly influential on the growth of the British Empire. Their victim status is contrived.

Dura_Ace said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/tictoc/status/1088801425268920320

Ozzy Osbourne is looking well these days.

looks a little paranoid to me

AndyJS said:

How much longer can Dominic Grieve and Mark Francois remain in the same party?

They will agree on much with respect to taxation, the public finances, regulation and market reform, and both exhibit signs of social conservatism.

Both of them are playing in extremis to their own audience, although it’s hard to argue that Grieve isn’t doing so with much more sophistication.

Varadkar calls the army in

https://www.independent.ie/business/brexit/we-may-need-a-police-presence-an-army-presence-taoiseach-warns-of-troops-on-border-37748541.html

How does it feel?
How does it feel?
To be all alone?
With your cover blown?
Your collusion shown?
A complete self-own?
Like a Roger Stone.

[stolen from twitter]

Casino_Royale said:

AndyJS said:

How much longer can Dominic Grieve and Mark Francois remain in the same party?

They will agree on much with respect to taxation, the public finances, regulation and market reform, and both exhibit signs of social conservatism.

Both of them are playing in extremis to their own audience, although it’s hard to argue that Grieve isn’t doing so with much more sophistication.

I must compliment you on that last sentence. Amusing use of the English understatement.

Crunching the Parliamentary numbers - all routes lead to the Deal, though there may be a few wrong turns along the way...

https://openeurope.org.uk/today/blog/crunching-the-numbers-is-there-a-parliamentary-majority-for-anything/

Beverley_C said:

Alanbrooke said:

Varadkar calls the army in

https://www.independent.ie/business/brexit/we-may-need-a-police-presence-an-army-presence-taoiseach-warns-of-troops-on-border-37748541.html

What? Both of them?

well somebody has to do night shift

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/DavidHerdson/status/1088797271179886592

It's the pause that's fascinating me. He had finished his point I think, and you can see the moment where he grins a bit more, and thinks I know what I'll do next...

It must sting to be an ardent English nationalist with the surname francois.

SeanT said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

SeanT said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/TheScepticIsle/status/1088769741282467840

Another cretin. Jesus. For every crazed Remainer like A C Grayling or Adonis, there’s a frothing loon of a Leaver like Francois or S Jackson (ex of this parish)

What the F has happened to us? We are a nation of donkeys led by maggots.

Sorry, but I don't think the scales are quite as even as you would like. Whatever you might say about Adonis he is very intelligent. These idiots? I am actually beginning to feel sorry for the more thoughtful people who voted for Brexit...well only a bit

Intelligence doesn’t count for zip if you’re dribbling sputum like Adonis, on a daily basis. He’s gone totally gaga over Brexit. Indeed his dry intellectuality makes the spectacle of his implosion even more macabre, and compelling.

There is something about Brexit which just sends people mental. I think it is because it challenges inner belief systems, and emotional weltanschauungs, i.e. it is more akin to a medieval war of religion than a modern day political argument.

I would agree with your second paragraph. It is very similar to the reformation, and sadly will continue to be as divisive for some time to come, though hopefully without the ritual burnings.

Nigel_Foremain said:

I disagree. The SNP is not benign, though it likes to give the impression it is. It has some very sinister undertones that are based on classical hatred themes that are so typical of nationalism and where it crosses into fascism. It also has a pretty unpleasant history with strong links to European fascism in the 30s. The bile that is spewed by the couple of SNP supporters that come on here if anyone criticises them is indicative. Irish nationalism, while its violence is repugnant, is based on a genuine history of repression and underrepresentation. Scottish nationalism cannot make this excuse. Scotland has been massively overrepresented in British government, and Scottish subjects were very strongly influential on the growth of the British Empire. Their victim status is contrived.

Not saying I have a particular soft spot for Scottish nationalism, and I will take on trust those comments about nastiness in the 1930s, I can believe it, and yes you are quite right that they were more partners in colonialism than victims of it, but - but but but - there is no way in my mind that a cause such as that, or say Catalonia, or the Kurds, this type of 'nationalism' ought to be viewed in the same light as Front National, BNP, AfD, Golden Dawn, these sorts of grisly and wholly reprehensible movements. I mean, Nicola Sturgeon or Martin Webster? Who are you going to take home to Mother?

justin124 said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

kinabalu said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

No, nationalism is fundamentally intellectually bankrupt, and when people begin to feel its effects in the aftermath of Trump and his trade wars and the damage caused by Brexit, it will be consigned back to the basket case that it belongs in, for at least another 50 years when it will remerge again when people have forgotten the hatred and damage it causes. We will have to live with its stupidity for another 10 years.

I too take a dim view of nationalism, but I exempt from this the form of it which manifests as a non-violent political struggle for self-determination on behalf of a territory which believes with some justification that it merits full independent nation status.

The SNP, for example, I do not bracket with the BNP.

I disagree. The SNP is not benign, though it likes to give the impression it is. It has some very sinister undertones that are based on classical hatred themes that are so typical of nationalism and where it crosses into fascism. It also has a pretty unpleasant history with strong links to European fascism in the 30s. The bile that is spewed by the couple of SNP supporters that come on here if anyone criticises them is indicative. Irish nationalism, while its violence is repugnant, is based on a genuine history of repression and underrepresentation. Scottish nationalism cannot make this excuse. Scotland has been massively overrepresented in British government, and Scottish subjects were very strongly influential on the growth of the British Empire. Their victim status is contrived.

I rather agree - and the same applies to Plaid Cymru which also had links with fascists in the 1930s.

Indeed, and rather like the Scots are in a fairly weak position to claim that their countrymen have not been sufficiently represented at all levels of the British establishment.

AlastairMeeks said:

The panic is palpable.

And delicious

Xenon said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Xenon said:

DavidL said:

Xenon said:

This whole Mueller investigation seems to just be a politically motivated way of getting rid of Trump.

The Russians favoured Trump and Sanders over Hilary and had a small social media presence pushing their preferred candidates. So what exactly?

I think that that is quite a difficult line to maintain when Mueller continues to get indictments, pleas and some fairly hefty sentences.

Just a load of trumped up charges, mostly about lying during the investigation or completely unrelated matters. Which is what you expect if you look at any election spending too closely (I can't imagine what you would find if you investigated say the Clintons this thoroughly).

Someone please explain what is wrong with working with the Russians during the election?

It's all about getting Trump out of office because they don't like him and can't accept that he won the election.

It violates American law, such as the Foreign Agents Registration Act for starters.

But no one has been charged with anything regarding the Russian involvement. It's all things that have come to light during the investigation.

The Russian angle was just the excuse to investigate until they found something.

Are you based in St Petersburg?

SeanT said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/TheScepticIsle/status/1088769741282467840

Another cretin. Jesus. For every crazed Remainer like A C Grayling or Adonis, there’s a frothing loon of a Leaver like Francois or S Jackson (ex of this parish)

What the F has happened to us? We are a nation of donkeys led by maggots.

It is style over substance from people with no style.

But I think there is still much of substance that is good about the country, even if the style is lacking and we are on the verge of doing damage to the substance.

AlastairMeeks said:

Robert Mueller's investigation has been methodical and very disciplined. The absence of leaks is striking, as is the way in which he seems to be plucking pieces off the board one at a time, slowly circling in to the centre. At every stage he's underpromised and overdelivered. That in turn creates a virtuous circle as those potentially in line seek to make sure of their own position.

We don't know what he knows, but equally obviously neither do any of those on team Trump, and none of them trust each other to know what might be out there. The panic is palpable.

I agree, he (and his team) have been sensationally good at their jobs so far.

DecrepitJohnL said:

Talking of Scotland and the SNP, isn't it Burns night?

Yes, it is.

Tissue_Price said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Robert Mueller's investigation has been methodical and very disciplined. The absence of leaks is striking, as is the way in which he seems to be plucking pieces off the board one at a time, slowly circling in to the centre. At every stage he's underpromised and overdelivered. That in turn creates a virtuous circle as those potentially in line seek to make sure of their own position.

We don't know what he knows, but equally obviously neither do any of those on team Trump, and none of them trust each other to know what might be out there. The panic is palpable.

I agree, he (and his team) have been sensationally good at their jobs so far.

I'd give it 5 years max 'till they make an Oscar contender out of this. Hmm, who to play Mueller? Baldwin as Trump, natch.

AlastairMeeks said:

Robert Mueller's investigation has been methodical and very disciplined. The absence of leaks is striking, as is the way in which he seems to be plucking pieces off the board one at a time, slowly circling in to the centre. At every stage he's underpromised and overdelivered. That in turn creates a virtuous circle as those potentially in line seek to make sure of their own position.

We don't know what he knows, but equally obviously neither do any of those on team Trump...

That's not exactly true - for example, part of the reason for the fight over discovery and admissibility of the evidence seized in the Manafort raids was to give team Trump a view of what documentary evidence Mueller had (which explains the terms in which they were able to call the recent leak from SDNY prosecutors office "inaccurate").
And don't forget most of the players, including some of those indicted/convicted, are still in the 'joint defence agreement', so again, team Trump gets to know something of the evidence Mueller has on the minor players going through the system.

it is remarkably like a mob prosecution.

Tissue_Price said:

Crunching the Parliamentary numbers - all routes lead to the Deal, though there may be a few wrong turns along the way...

https://openeurope.org.uk/today/blog/crunching-the-numbers-is-there-a-parliamentary-majority-for-anything/

Two cheers. Ultimately some of the Norway supporters could be added to the figures as their position is not made impossible by voting for the deal, and they are not going to support no deal

Scott_P said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

Talking of Scotland and the SNP, isn't it Burns night?

Yes, it is.

I guess a certain rotund SNP figure will not be doing the toast to the lassies this year?

DavidL said:

There really ought to come a point when England can just surrender. This is torture and humiliation.

Are you talking about Brexit?

TheScreamingEagles said:

DavidL said:

There really ought to come a point when England can just surrender. This is torture and humiliation.

Are you talking about Brexit?

No, something much more serious.

Beverley_C said:

Alanbrooke said:

Varadkar calls the army in

https://www.independent.ie/business/brexit/we-may-need-a-police-presence-an-army-presence-taoiseach-warns-of-troops-on-border-37748541.html

What? Both of them?

In terms of % of population the Irish Army is bigger than the British.

DavidL said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

DavidL said:

There really ought to come a point when England can just surrender. This is torture and humiliation.

Are you talking about Brexit?

No, something much more serious.

Look on the bright side, for the first time since 1992 we go into a World Cup tournament with real confidence

RobD said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/lisaocarroll/status/1088813501236367361

Less congestion in the UK?

Less pollution too.

SeanT said:

kinabalu said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

I disagree. The SNP is not benign, though it likes to give the impression it is. It has some very sinister undertones that are based on classical hatred themes that are so typical of nationalism and where it crosses into fascism. It also has a pretty unpleasant history with strong links to European fascism in the 30s. The bile that is spewed by the couple of SNP supporters that come on here if anyone criticises them is indicative. Irish nationalism, while its violence is repugnant, is based on a genuine history of repression and underrepresentation. Scottish nationalism cannot make this excuse. Scotland has been massively overrepresented in British government, and Scottish subjects were very strongly influential on the growth of the British Empire. Their victim status is contrived.

Not saying I have a particular soft spot for Scottish nationalism, and I will take on trust those comments about nastiness in the 1930s, I can believe it, and yes you are quite right that they were more partners in colonialism than victims of it, but - but but but - there is no way in my mind that a cause such as that, or say Catalonia, or the Kurds, this type of 'nationalism' ought to be viewed in the same light as Front National, BNP, AfD, Golden Dawn, these sorts of grisly and wholly reprehensible movements. I mean, Nicola Sturgeon or Martin Webster? Who are you going to take home to Mother?

Hmm. You are still being too kind to the SNP. At the heart of Scottish nationalism is a burning hatred of the English, stemming from, and allied with, a deep inferiority complex vis-a-vis the Sassenachs, They have done well to build a facade of “civic nationalism” to disguise this, but it is still there, lurking. Down in the crypt.

This is a direct quote from Barack Obama:

"And if over the course of what is going not be at least a two year negotiation between England and Europe, Great Britain ends up being affiliated to Europe like Norway is, the average person is not going not notice a big change."

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/president-obama-says-average-british-vote-wont-notice-difference-of-brexit_uk_577276ade4b0d257114a66c0

If you were Scottish, it's easy to see why you'd think something wasn't right with the current constitutional position.

williamglenn said:

SeanT said:

kinabalu said:

Nigel_Foremain said:

I disagree. The SNP is not benign, though it likes to give the impression it is. It has some very sinister undertones that are based on classical hatred themes that are so typical of nationalism and where it crosses into fascism. It also has a pretty unpleasant history with strong links to European fascism in the 30s. The bile that is spewed by the couple of SNP supporters that come on here if anyone criticises them is indicative. Irish nationalism, while its violence is repugnant, is based on a genuine history of repression and underrepresentation. Scottish nationalism cannot make this excuse. Scotland has been massively overrepresented in British government, and Scottish subjects were very strongly influential on the growth of the British Empire. Their victim status is contrived.

Not saying I have a particular soft spot for Scottish nationalism, and I will take on trust those comments about nastiness in the 1930s, I can believe it, and yes you are quite right that they were more partners in colonialism than victims of it, but - but but but - there is no way in my mind that a cause such as that, or say Catalonia, or the Kurds, this type of 'nationalism' ought to be viewed in the same light as Front National, BNP, AfD, Golden Dawn, these sorts of grisly and wholly reprehensible movements. I mean, Nicola Sturgeon or Martin Webster? Who are you going to take home to Mother?

Hmm. You are still being too kind to the SNP. At the heart of Scottish nationalism is a burning hatred of the English, stemming from, and allied with, a deep inferiority complex vis-a-vis the Sassenachs, They have done well to build a facade of “civic nationalism” to disguise this, but it is still there, lurking. Down in the crypt.

This is a direct quote from Barack Obama:

"And if over the course of what is going not be at least a two year negotiation between England and Europe, Great Britain ends up being affiliated to Europe like Norway is, the average person is not going not notice a big change."

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/president-obama-says-average-british-vote-wont-notice-difference-of-brexit_uk_577276ade4b0d257114a66c0

If you were Scottish, it's easy to see why you'd think something wasn't right with the current constitutional position.

Because the president doesn’t know what he’s talking about?

https://twitter.com/TheDailyShow/status/1088817526627291141

SeanT said:

rkrkrk said:

Tissue_Price said:

Crunching the Parliamentary numbers - all routes lead to the Deal, though there may be a few wrong turns along the way...

https://openeurope.org.uk/today/blog/crunching-the-numbers-is-there-a-parliamentary-majority-for-anything/

Informative article - but I don't agree with your conclusion. The only deal which passes is one with Labour and Conservative votes, which must be a softer one to get Labour support.

May would have to break her red line on the customs union I think. And will she? I doubt it.

So: No Deal?

I just can’t see it. Parliament will go bonkers as No Deal approaches. MPs will swarm. Something will be passed. But a lot of damage will be done in the meantime.

It is also possible that the EU - or Ireland - will blink first.

The EU or May might blink, but if everyone holds firm, I think we will some kind of Grieve amendment passing that takes the decision out of her hands and revokes Article 50. So I still think there won't be a No Deal exit.

Nigelb said:

It is remarkably like a mob prosecution.

And probably with good reason if so.

Horses for courses.