politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » After the likely failure of today’s confidence vote then what?
politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » After the likely failure of today’s confidence vote then what?
The outcome of this afternoon’s confidence vote in HMG is not really in doubt following the assurances made last night by Moggsy and representatives of the DUP that they would be backing the government. The real interest will be the size of the winning margin because it will almost certainly represent the maximum for both those for and against and looks like being the baseline for future such votes in the House.
Comments
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The pressure will be put on Corbyn to commit to a referendum...0
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May should get the self-awareness to realise that she is part of the problem and go.
We should all think what a calamitous mess of the constitution Cameron's FTPA has made.0 -
A pox on all Leavers.
An STD as well for all of the ERG.0 -
Don't pox viruses effect the nervous system ?TheScreamingEagles said:A pox on all Leavers.
An STD as well for all of the ERG.
It's not a matter of certainty then that the ERG are capable of succumbing.0 -
Indeed May really needs to wake up and take responsibility for the mess. The cul-de-sac we are now in is largely (but not exclusively) of her own making.Philip_Thompson said:May should get the self-awareness to realise that she is part of the problem and go.
We should all think what a calamitous mess of the constitution Cameron's FTPA has made.0 -
Corbyn wants No Deal lest we forget.
That will influence his strategy and tactics.0 -
Given they appear be w***kers, how will they catch it?TheScreamingEagles said:A pox on all Leavers.
An STD as well for all of the ERG.0 -
That’s why I want them to contract syphilis.Nigelb said:
Don't pox viruses effect the nervous system ?TheScreamingEagles said:A pox on all Leavers.
An STD as well for all of the ERG.
It's not a matter of certainty then that the ERG are capable of succumbing.0 -
He wants an election more though.TheScreamingEagles said:Corbyn wants No Deal lest we forget.
That will influence his strategy and tactics.0 -
So half the Conservatives, the Labour leadership and the SNP seem to want no-deal. Let’s get on with it!TheScreamingEagles said:Corbyn wants No Deal lest we forget.
That will influence his strategy and tactics.0 -
I wonder what the sliding doors moment would look like if Dave had won the referendum.0
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I think he wants No Deal then an election.DanSmith said:
He wants an election more though.TheScreamingEagles said:Corbyn wants No Deal lest we forget.
That will influence his strategy and tactics.
The Tories get smashed in the event of sustained no deal.0 -
The mess has many authors.Jonathan said:
Indeed May really needs to wake up and take responsibility for the mess. The cul-de-sac we are now in is largely (but not exclusively) of her own making.Philip_Thompson said:May should get the self-awareness to realise that she is part of the problem and go.
We should all think what a calamitous mess of the constitution Cameron's FTPA has made.
I think she should step down, but the mess will remain.0 -
You can live with no deal in the safety of Dubai, those of who will have to deal with it on a daily basis aren’t so keen.Sandpit said:
So half the Conservatives, the Labour leadership and the SNP seem to want no-deal. Let’s get on with it!TheScreamingEagles said:Corbyn wants No Deal lest we forget.
That will influence his strategy and tactics.0 -
Osbo would be PM and Cameron would be getting ready to take over as NATO SecGen.TheScreamingEagles said:I wonder what the sliding doors moment would look like if Dave had won the referendum.
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I would restate my view on a second referendum. I think it only works where the country collectively decides it made a mistake about Brexit and is looking for an out. So in that case "May's Deal" as the Leave alternative could be OK. But you would want to be pretty certain Remain will win.FF43 said:
Yes, but parliament would also overwhelmingly reject No Deal, which is the only other form of Leave that is available. It would be absurd to offer that too. Which just leaves Remain. It would be absurd to offer a referendum with only one choice.Sean_F said:
It would be absurd for Parliament to offer a public vote on something it had just overwhelmingly rejected, and would be seen (rightly) as loading the dice in favour of Remain.kle4 said:
The people will quickly abandon it now too, plenty won't want to back a loser. To even be considered again the deal needs tweaking. And if we could get that it would not have be whalloped quite so hard in the first place.IanB2 said:
Despite agreeing that deal v Remain is the only realistic vote, it is hard to see the deal going to the people having been voted down twice, unless there is evidence of significant public support for it (which there isn't; the poll support is falling away).Morris_Dancer said:Guten Morgen, my fellow Europeans.
I was amused by the BBC waffle last night. Leaving aside James Landale's three minute segment during which he excitingly revealed things are a bit difficult to predict right now, Huw Edwards and Laura Kuenssberg suggesting the scale of the defeat was a shock was, er, wrong.
Sky's prediction in the morning had circa 198 voting for the deal, which was very close. Some handsome fellow or other also backed both the specific 10-seat band and the wider 50-seat band, on Betfair and Ladbrokes respectively, and I know many others here did likewise.
On predictions, here's something that might happen:
May gets a tiny tinkering with the deal.
Goes for a second vote with the threat of a referendum between her deal and Remain.
Deal loses, second referendum occurs.
So where do we go from here?
Otherwise the long grass would be the way to go. Note that the country (narrowly) decided to leave European Union. Note also that no acceptable way of leaving the EU has yet been found. Revoke Article 50. Set up a Commission to establish a path that will work for most of the stakeholders. And let that process take its course.
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I think "Let's" is doing a lot of work here.Sandpit said:
So half the Conservatives, the Labour leadership and the SNP seem to want no-deal. Let’s get on with it!TheScreamingEagles said:Corbyn wants No Deal lest we forget.
That will influence his strategy and tactics.
Should be "Why don't you lot.."0 -
Yes, he is too thick to realise that the resulting economic collapse will destroy the government finances and stop him paying for all the goodies.TheScreamingEagles said:
I think he wants No Deal then an election.DanSmith said:
He wants an election more though.TheScreamingEagles said:Corbyn wants No Deal lest we forget.
That will influence his strategy and tactics.
The Tories get smashed in the event of sustained no deal.
I guess they'll just print the money.0 -
Oh well, I'm still a virgin. Pure.TheScreamingEagles said:A pox on all Leavers.
An STD as well for all of the ERG.
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What about the real sliding doors moment, when Osborne told him he was "crazy" to go for referendum.Dura_Ace said:
Osbo would be PM and Cameron would be getting ready to take over as NATO SecGen.TheScreamingEagles said:I wonder what the sliding doors moment would look like if Dave had won the referendum.
What if Cameron had listened?0 -
Am told the People’s Vote (sic) lot are putting together a compilation of all the times the Leave campaigners said No Deal was Project Fear.
Contains over 100 clips and lasts nearly 20 minutes.0 -
She has a degree of responsibility for falling into line with the headbangers. The main culprits, though, are those that told the public it was a desirable project and worse still that it was all going to be "easy". They need to be called to account, and not let anywhere near any real positions of power, ever . Sadly, while we have a neo-communist as LOTO that seems less likely.Sean_F said:
The mess has many authors.Jonathan said:
Indeed May really needs to wake up and take responsibility for the mess. The cul-de-sac we are now in is largely (but not exclusively) of her own making.Philip_Thompson said:May should get the self-awareness to realise that she is part of the problem and go.
We should all think what a calamitous mess of the constitution Cameron's FTPA has made.
I think she should step down, but the mess will remain.0 -
The thread that has run through this is a lack of leadership. She created a vacuum that gave others the space to grow. No-one really is following her lead these days. The free for all we saw yesterday is the ultimate symptom of that.Sean_F said:
The mess has many authors.Jonathan said:
Indeed May really needs to wake up and take responsibility for the mess. The cul-de-sac we are now in is largely (but not exclusively) of her own making.Philip_Thompson said:May should get the self-awareness to realise that she is part of the problem and go.
We should all think what a calamitous mess of the constitution Cameron's FTPA has made.
I think she should step down, but the mess will remain.
The push and pull forces that come from a strong PM really are not there. No-one is convinced by her. No-one is afraid of her. She has tin ear and leaden feet. Its' a hard thing to say about someone clearly doing their best, but she really is the problem.0 -
Priority is to keep establishing symbolic majority votes against No Deal and build a majority for an extension. Baby steps and both easier I suspect than constructing majorities for a WA and/or a VONC.0
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Yep, Labour finally runs out of fence.Slackbladder said:The pressure will be put on Corbyn to commit to a referendum...
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Dave is against AV, that's for sure!TheScreamingEagles said:I wonder what the sliding doors moment would look like if Dave had won the referendum.
For example: David Cameron's "Why keeping first past the post is vital for democracy." Daily Telegraph. 30 Apr 2011
Allowing people into the UK parliament who did not finish first in their constituency would create a "Parliament full of second-choices who no one really wanted but didn't really object to either."0 -
Siege economy. This whole approach was part and parcel of the mid70s strategy of Corbyn's antecedents.rottenborough said:
Yes, he is too thick to realise that the resulting economic collapse will destroy the government finances and stop him paying for all the goodies.TheScreamingEagles said:
I think he wants No Deal then an election.DanSmith said:
He wants an election more though.TheScreamingEagles said:Corbyn wants No Deal lest we forget.
That will influence his strategy and tactics.
The Tories get smashed in the event of sustained no deal.
I guess they'll just print the money.0 -
Re. the latter. Can viruses get a virus themselves?TheScreamingEagles said:A pox on all Leavers.
An STD as well for all of the ERG.0 -
From the public reaction on the media today it is the politicians who are the problem and TM is receiving surprisingly strong supportJonathan said:
The thread that has run through this is a lack of leadership. She created a vacuum that gave others the space to grow. No-one really is following her lead these days. The free for all we saw yesterday is the ultimate symptom of that.Sean_F said:
The mess has many authors.Jonathan said:
Indeed May really needs to wake up and take responsibility for the mess. The cul-de-sac we are now in is largely (but not exclusively) of her own making.Philip_Thompson said:May should get the self-awareness to realise that she is part of the problem and go.
We should all think what a calamitous mess of the constitution Cameron's FTPA has made.
I think she should step down, but the mess will remain.
The push and pull forces that come from a strong PM really are not there. No-one is convinced by her. No-one is afraid of her. She has tin ear and leaden feet. Its' a hard thing to say about someone clearly doing their best, but she really is the problem.0 -
Hence, the promise that they'll do no confidence after no confidence etc etc.TheScreamingEagles said:Corbyn wants No Deal lest we forget.
That will influence his strategy and tactics.
This is not a grown up approach to politics.0 -
Pity is a powerful thing. Britains like a plucky loser. Doesn't mean she should not go and hasn't caused this mess.Big_G_NorthWales said:
From the public reaction on the media today it is the politicians who are the problem and TM is receiving surprisingly strong supportJonathan said:
The thread that has run through this is a lack of leadership. She created a vacuum that gave others the space to grow. No-one really is following her lead these days. The free for all we saw yesterday is the ultimate symptom of that.Sean_F said:
The mess has many authors.Jonathan said:
Indeed May really needs to wake up and take responsibility for the mess. The cul-de-sac we are now in is largely (but not exclusively) of her own making.Philip_Thompson said:May should get the self-awareness to realise that she is part of the problem and go.
We should all think what a calamitous mess of the constitution Cameron's FTPA has made.
I think she should step down, but the mess will remain.
The push and pull forces that come from a strong PM really are not there. No-one is convinced by her. No-one is afraid of her. She has tin ear and leaden feet. Its' a hard thing to say about someone clearly doing their best, but she really is the problem.0 -
She stands down, the Tories probably pick someone more Brexit, and they lose their remainer wing and hence their majority. For sure, it gets things moving, but not in a direction that is likely to resolve the Brexit dilemma any time soon.Sean_F said:
The mess has many authors.Jonathan said:
Indeed May really needs to wake up and take responsibility for the mess. The cul-de-sac we are now in is largely (but not exclusively) of her own making.Philip_Thompson said:May should get the self-awareness to realise that she is part of the problem and go.
We should all think what a calamitous mess of the constitution Cameron's FTPA has made.
I think she should step down, but the mess will remain.0 -
Both those statements are a bit rich coming from someone who favours Brexit, the most pointless charade that has ever been inflicted on a gullible British public; a charade that is doing massive damage to our standing in the world and our economy; a charade that continues to be played out in spite of the last GE result that demonstrated the general populace had no real appetite for it, or else they would have given May a thumping majority.Philip_Thompson said:May should get the self-awareness to realise that she is part of the problem and go.
We should all think what a calamitous mess of the constitution Cameron's FTPA has made.0 -
The main culprits are those who voted to trigger A50, and then voted No last night. Never vote for something if you cannot abide it.Nigel_Foremain said:
She has a degree of responsibility for falling into line with the headbangers. The main culprits, though, are those that told the public it was a desirable project and worse still that it was all going to be "easy". They need to be called to account, and not let anywhere near any real positions of power, ever . Sadly, while we have a neo-communist as LOTO that seems less likely.Sean_F said:
The mess has many authors.Jonathan said:
Indeed May really needs to wake up and take responsibility for the mess. The cul-de-sac we are now in is largely (but not exclusively) of her own making.Philip_Thompson said:May should get the self-awareness to realise that she is part of the problem and go.
We should all think what a calamitous mess of the constitution Cameron's FTPA has made.
I think she should step down, but the mess will remain.0 -
The comments were not pity but surprisingly supportiveJonathan said:
Pity is a powerful thing. Britains like a plucky loser. Doesn't mean she should not go and hasn't caused this mess.Big_G_NorthWales said:
From the public reaction on the media today it is the politicians who are the problem and TM is receiving surprisingly strong supportJonathan said:
The thread that has run through this is a lack of leadership. She created a vacuum that gave others the space to grow. No-one really is following her lead these days. The free for all we saw yesterday is the ultimate symptom of that.Sean_F said:
The mess has many authors.Jonathan said:
Indeed May really needs to wake up and take responsibility for the mess. The cul-de-sac we are now in is largely (but not exclusively) of her own making.Philip_Thompson said:May should get the self-awareness to realise that she is part of the problem and go.
We should all think what a calamitous mess of the constitution Cameron's FTPA has made.
I think she should step down, but the mess will remain.
The push and pull forces that come from a strong PM really are not there. No-one is convinced by her. No-one is afraid of her. She has tin ear and leaden feet. Its' a hard thing to say about someone clearly doing their best, but she really is the problem.0 -
And what happens to them in the event of revoke ?TheScreamingEagles said:
I think he wants No Deal then an election.DanSmith said:
He wants an election more though.TheScreamingEagles said:Corbyn wants No Deal lest we forget.
That will influence his strategy and tactics.
The Tories get smashed in the event of sustained no deal.
At this point, the only sensible party political strategy for them is referendum, but even that is difficult to envisage, as May's long drawn out 'strategy' has subjected her deal to so many pails of shit being dumped over it from all sides, that it would be hard to offer to the public as a credible option.0 -
abject surrender of the national interest as normalTheScreamingEagles said:I wonder what the sliding doors moment would look like if Dave had won the referendum.
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For some reason Eddie the Eagle comes to mind.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The comments were not pity but surprisingly supportiveJonathan said:
Pity is a powerful thing. Britains like a plucky loser. Doesn't mean she should not go and hasn't caused this mess.Big_G_NorthWales said:
From the public reaction on the media today it is the politicians who are the problem and TM is receiving surprisingly strong supportJonathan said:
The thread that has run through this is a lack of leadership. She created a vacuum that gave others the space to grow. No-one really is following her lead these days. The free for all we saw yesterday is the ultimate symptom of that.Sean_F said:
The mess has many authors.Jonathan said:
Indeed May really needs to wake up and take responsibility for the mess. The cul-de-sac we are now in is largely (but not exclusively) of her own making.Philip_Thompson said:May should get the self-awareness to realise that she is part of the problem and go.
We should all think what a calamitous mess of the constitution Cameron's FTPA has made.
I think she should step down, but the mess will remain.
The push and pull forces that come from a strong PM really are not there. No-one is convinced by her. No-one is afraid of her. She has tin ear and leaden feet. Its' a hard thing to say about someone clearly doing their best, but she really is the problem.0 -
A few more unobjectionable MPs would surely be a good thing.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Dave is against AV, that's for sure!TheScreamingEagles said:I wonder what the sliding doors moment would look like if Dave had won the referendum.
For example: David Cameron's "Why keeping first past the post is vital for democracy." Daily Telegraph. 30 Apr 2011
Allowing people into the UK parliament who did not finish first in their constituency would create a "Parliament full of second-choices who no one really wanted but didn't really object to either."0 -
We may agree on that, but perhaps for differing reasons. A50 was hastily invoked, mainly from pressure from the headbangers. Meaningful negotiations should have started in advance of that, though the problem was the lazy idiot who told us it was going to be easy; a fool with the initials DD.Sean_F said:
The main culprits are those who voted to trigger A50, and then voted No last night. Never vote for something if you cannot abide it.Nigel_Foremain said:
She has a degree of responsibility for falling into line with the headbangers. The main culprits, though, are those that told the public it was a desirable project and worse still that it was all going to be "easy". They need to be called to account, and not let anywhere near any real positions of power, ever . Sadly, while we have a neo-communist as LOTO that seems less likely.Sean_F said:
The mess has many authors.Jonathan said:
Indeed May really needs to wake up and take responsibility for the mess. The cul-de-sac we are now in is largely (but not exclusively) of her own making.Philip_Thompson said:May should get the self-awareness to realise that she is part of the problem and go.
We should all think what a calamitous mess of the constitution Cameron's FTPA has made.
I think she should step down, but the mess will remain.0 -
We’re buggered either way but I’d go for the option that doesn’t bugger the country as well.Nigelb said:
And what happens to them in the event of revoke ?TheScreamingEagles said:
I think he wants No Deal then an election.DanSmith said:
He wants an election more though.TheScreamingEagles said:Corbyn wants No Deal lest we forget.
That will influence his strategy and tactics.
The Tories get smashed in the event of sustained no deal.
At this point, the only sensible party political strategy for them is referendum, but even that is difficult to envisage, as May's long drawn out 'strategy' has subjected her deal to so many pails of shit being dumped over it from all sides, that it would be hard to offer to the public as a credible option.
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Not sure how you can discriminate the two. I hope she goes for her sake as much as anything. It can't be much fun. It's certainly painful to watch.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The comments were not pity but surprisingly supportiveJonathan said:
Pity is a powerful thing. Britains like a plucky loser. Doesn't mean she should not go and hasn't caused this mess.Big_G_NorthWales said:
From the public reaction on the media today it is the politicians who are the problem and TM is receiving surprisingly strong supportJonathan said:
The thread that has run through this is a lack of leadership. She created a vacuum that gave others the space to grow. No-one really is following her lead these days. The free for all we saw yesterday is the ultimate symptom of that.Sean_F said:
The mess has many authors.Jonathan said:
Indeed May really needs to wake up and take responsibility for the mess. The cul-de-sac we are now in is largely (but not exclusively) of her own making.Philip_Thompson said:May should get the self-awareness to realise that she is part of the problem and go.
We should all think what a calamitous mess of the constitution Cameron's FTPA has made.
I think she should step down, but the mess will remain.
The push and pull forces that come from a strong PM really are not there. No-one is convinced by her. No-one is afraid of her. She has tin ear and leaden feet. Its' a hard thing to say about someone clearly doing their best, but she really is the problem.0 -
How on earth does the opposition get 320-329 votes. Just taken the £6 @ 20 available.0
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could they also do one of all the scare stories put out by remain, could be a Netflix mini series.TheScreamingEagles said:Am told the People’s Vote (sic) lot are putting together a compilation of all the times the Leave campaigners said No Deal was Project Fear.
Contains over 100 clips and lasts nearly 20 minutes.0 -
Which will be proven right after sustained no deal.Alanbrooke said:
could they also do one of all the scare stories put out by remain, could be a Netflix mini series.TheScreamingEagles said:Am told the People’s Vote (sic) lot are putting together a compilation of all the times the Leave campaigners said No Deal was Project Fear.
Contains over 100 clips and lasts nearly 20 minutes.0 -
Your idea of the national interest is somewhat different from folk who actually understand business and economicsAlanbrooke said:
abject surrender of the national interest as normalTheScreamingEagles said:I wonder what the sliding doors moment would look like if Dave had won the referendum.
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I think you might be completely missing the point there.Alanbrooke said:
could they also do one of all the scare stories put out by remain, could be a Netflix mini series.TheScreamingEagles said:Am told the People’s Vote (sic) lot are putting together a compilation of all the times the Leave campaigners said No Deal was Project Fear.
Contains over 100 clips and lasts nearly 20 minutes.0 -
There are times when even Dan Hodges is correct
https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/10854766856366039040 -
As I said on the last thread 498 mps voted for A50 and no deal and yet this morning Jon Trickett blamed the 29th March date entirely at TM door, not realising that he had voted for A50 and the consequencesSean_F said:
The main culprits are those who voted to trigger A50, and then voted No last night. Never vote for something if you cannot abide it.Nigel_Foremain said:
She has a degree of responsibility for falling into line with the headbangers. The main culprits, though, are those that told the public it was a desirable project and worse still that it was all going to be "easy". They need to be called to account, and not let anywhere near any real positions of power, ever . Sadly, while we have a neo-communist as LOTO that seems less likely.Sean_F said:
The mess has many authors.Jonathan said:
Indeed May really needs to wake up and take responsibility for the mess. The cul-de-sac we are now in is largely (but not exclusively) of her own making.Philip_Thompson said:May should get the self-awareness to realise that she is part of the problem and go.
We should all think what a calamitous mess of the constitution Cameron's FTPA has made.
I think she should step down, but the mess will remain.
TM is receiving criticism this morning some of which is fair, but all 498 mps who voted against the deal last night, but voted for A50 should hang their heads in shame0 -
I’m getting seriously worried about Waitrose and M&S over here running out of food, the first thing to stop is going to be exports from the U.K. Where else is one supposed to find bacon over here?TheScreamingEagles said:
You can live with no deal in the safety of Dubai, those of who will have to deal with it on a daily basis aren’t so keen.Sandpit said:
So half the Conservatives, the Labour leadership and the SNP seem to want no-deal. Let’s get on with it!TheScreamingEagles said:Corbyn wants No Deal lest we forget.
That will influence his strategy and tactics.
More seriously, unless MPs can very quickly agree on the way forward, the preparations for no deal need to be stepped up a gear or two.0 -
Revoking would destroy the Tory Party and usher in a 20 year Corbynite government. That buggers the country.TheScreamingEagles said:
We’re buggered either way but I’d go for the option that doesn’t bugger the country as well.Nigelb said:
And what happens to them in the event of revoke ?TheScreamingEagles said:
I think he wants No Deal then an election.DanSmith said:
He wants an election more though.TheScreamingEagles said:Corbyn wants No Deal lest we forget.
That will influence his strategy and tactics.
The Tories get smashed in the event of sustained no deal.
At this point, the only sensible party political strategy for them is referendum, but even that is difficult to envisage, as May's long drawn out 'strategy' has subjected her deal to so many pails of shit being dumped over it from all sides, that it would be hard to offer to the public as a credible option.0 -
Agreed - but I was considering incentives for the various courses of action.TheScreamingEagles said:
We’re buggered either way but I’d go for the option that doesn’t bugger the country as well.Nigelb said:
And what happens to them in the event of revoke ?TheScreamingEagles said:
I think he wants No Deal then an election.DanSmith said:
He wants an election more though.TheScreamingEagles said:Corbyn wants No Deal lest we forget.
That will influence his strategy and tactics.
The Tories get smashed in the event of sustained no deal.
At this point, the only sensible party political strategy for them is referendum, but even that is difficult to envisage, as May's long drawn out 'strategy' has subjected her deal to so many pails of shit being dumped over it from all sides, that it would be hard to offer to the public as a credible option.
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Cameron would be writing his memoirs. As things are, his anti-Midas touch meant everything turned out badly. What are his triumphs? Screwing Gordon Brown out of the IMF job? Wiping out his coalition partners? That is why he will be sending back the publisher's advance.Dura_Ace said:
Osbo would be PM and Cameron would be getting ready to take over as NATO SecGen.TheScreamingEagles said:I wonder what the sliding doors moment would look like if Dave had won the referendum.
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some will some wont, its the ramping of the worst of all world memes which actually undermine the arguments.TheScreamingEagles said:
Which will be proven right after sustained no deal.Alanbrooke said:
could they also do one of all the scare stories put out by remain, could be a Netflix mini series.TheScreamingEagles said:Am told the People’s Vote (sic) lot are putting together a compilation of all the times the Leave campaigners said No Deal was Project Fear.
Contains over 100 clips and lasts nearly 20 minutes.
Ken Clark in his usual affable way talking about a handful of key points and why we should worry about them would be more effective than the hysterical shroud waving Remain has adopted. The problem for the fearites is its all background noise and they have to take it up to aother level each time, Eventually it just looks nonsensical,0 -
It wasn't permissable to open negotiations prior to A50, but it would have been useful to have sorted our own position first.Nigel_Foremain said:
We may agree on that, but perhaps for differing reasons. A50 was hastily invoked, mainly from pressure from the headbangers. Meaningful negotiations should have started in advance of that, though the problem was the lazy idiot who told us it was going to be easy; a fool with the initials DD.Sean_F said:
The main culprits are those who voted to trigger A50, and then voted No last night. Never vote for something if you cannot abide it.Nigel_Foremain said:
She has a degree of responsibility for falling into line with the headbangers. The main culprits, though, are those that told the public it was a desirable project and worse still that it was all going to be "easy". They need to be called to account, and not let anywhere near any real positions of power, ever . Sadly, while we have a neo-communist as LOTO that seems less likely.Sean_F said:
The mess has many authors.Jonathan said:
Indeed May really needs to wake up and take responsibility for the mess. The cul-de-sac we are now in is largely (but not exclusively) of her own making.Philip_Thompson said:May should get the self-awareness to realise that she is part of the problem and go.
We should all think what a calamitous mess of the constitution Cameron's FTPA has made.
I think she should step down, but the mess will remain.
The problem is that even now the Cabinet is divided over objectives. That is no way to start a negotiation. We needed to negotiate internally, before going externally.0 -
Morning all. So here is my take in bullets:
In order to leave the EU we must ratify the Withdrawal Treaty.
The DUP will not support the Treaty.
The DUP are the prop on which this government depends for its existence.
Therefore this government cannot take us out of the EU.
But we must leave the EU because of the 2016 referendum.
Therefore a different government is required.
Which with this parliament means either a GUC or a JC minority.
But neither of the above is feasible given the political dynamics.
Therefore a new parliament is required.
Which can only come about via a GENERAL ELECTION.0 -
The other opposition parties are unlikely to support repetitive voncBannedInParis said:
Hence, the promise that they'll do no confidence after no confidence etc etc.TheScreamingEagles said:Corbyn wants No Deal lest we forget.
That will influence his strategy and tactics.
This is not a grown up approach to politics.0 -
Supporting what ? A record losing PM, or her Brexit deal.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The comments were not pity but surprisingly supportiveJonathan said:
Pity is a powerful thing. Britains like a plucky loser. Doesn't mean she should not go and hasn't caused this mess.Big_G_NorthWales said:
From the public reaction on the media today it is the politicians who are the problem and TM is receiving surprisingly strong supportJonathan said:
The thread that has run through this is a lack of leadership. She created a vacuum that gave others the space to grow. No-one really is following her lead these days. The free for all we saw yesterday is the ultimate symptom of that.Sean_F said:
The mess has many authors.Jonathan said:
Indeed May really needs to wake up and take responsibility for the mess. The cul-de-sac we are now in is largely (but not exclusively) of her own making.Philip_Thompson said:May should get the self-awareness to realise that she is part of the problem and go.
We should all think what a calamitous mess of the constitution Cameron's FTPA has made.
I think she should step down, but the mess will remain.
The push and pull forces that come from a strong PM really are not there. No-one is convinced by her. No-one is afraid of her. She has tin ear and leaden feet. Its' a hard thing to say about someone clearly doing their best, but she really is the problem.
If that is the case no problem with a new referendum then.
0 -
Deal or no deal the country will be fine with Brexit.Nigel_Foremain said:
Both those statements are a bit rich coming from someone who favours Brexit, the most pointless charade that has ever been inflicted on a gullible British public; a charade that is doing massive damage to our standing in the world and our economy; a charade that continues to be played out in spite of the last GE result that demonstrated the general populace had no real appetite for it, or else they would have given May a thumping majority.Philip_Thompson said:May should get the self-awareness to realise that she is part of the problem and go.
We should all think what a calamitous mess of the constitution Cameron's FTPA has made.0 -
Apportioning blame is something that can wait until the end of March. There are more pressing concerns for now.Big_G_NorthWales said:
As I said on the last thread 498 mps voted for A50 and no deal and yet this morning Jon Trickett blamed the 29th March date entirely at TM door, not realising that he had voted for A50 and the consequencesSean_F said:
The main culprits are those who voted to trigger A50, and then voted No last night. Never vote for something if you cannot abide it.Nigel_Foremain said:
She has a degree of responsibility for falling into line with the headbangers. The main culprits, though, are those that told the public it was a desirable project and worse still that it was all going to be "easy". They need to be called to account, and not let anywhere near any real positions of power, ever . Sadly, while we have a neo-communist as LOTO that seems less likely.Sean_F said:
The mess has many authors.Jonathan said:
Indeed May really needs to wake up and take responsibility for the mess. The cul-de-sac we are now in is largely (but not exclusively) of her own making.Philip_Thompson said:May should get the self-awareness to realise that she is part of the problem and go.
We should all think what a calamitous mess of the constitution Cameron's FTPA has made.
I think she should step down, but the mess will remain.
TM is receiving criticism this morning some of which is fair, but all 498 mps who voted against the deal last night, but voted for A50 should hang their heads in shame0 -
There has to be a time when even the most deluded have to face up to reality. I'd like to hear apologies from those that said it was going to be easy and that the German carmakers would mean they needed us more than we needed them.eek said:There are times when even Dan Hodges is correct
https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/10854766856366039040 -
I'm not sure a referendum is a fly
Remain Vs No Deal: Won't happen
Remain Vs May deal: Won't happen
Remain vs Softer Brexit: Possible, but still then needs an agreement with EU, which needs 'a deal' which the EU have said won't happen, and which no one in 'power' is prosing apart from some vague mentions from Labour.
So what referendum option is happening anytime soon?0 -
Aye.eek said:There are times when even Dan Hodges is correct
https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1085476685636603904
https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/10854509821658275840 -
I thought you Leavers wanted immigrants to assimilate into the host country and not bring their own traditions with them?Sandpit said:
I’m getting seriously worried about Waitrose and M&S over here running out of food, the first thing to stop is going to be exports from the U.K. Where else is one supposed to find bacon over here?TheScreamingEagles said:
You can live with no deal in the safety of Dubai, those of who will have to deal with it on a daily basis aren’t so keen.Sandpit said:
So half the Conservatives, the Labour leadership and the SNP seem to want no-deal. Let’s get on with it!TheScreamingEagles said:Corbyn wants No Deal lest we forget.
That will influence his strategy and tactics.
More seriously, unless MPs can very quickly agree on the way forward, the preparations for no deal need to be stepped up a gear or two.0 -
Which might well solve nothing, and would burn up most of the remaining time.kinabalu said:Morning all. So here is my take in bullets:
In order to leave the EU we must ratify the Withdrawal Treaty.
The DUP will not support the Treaty.
The DUP are the prop on which this government depends for its existence.
Therefore this government cannot take us out of the EU.
But we must leave the EU because of the 2016 referendum.
Therefore a different government is required.
Which with this parliament means either a GUC or a JC minority.
But neither of the above is feasible given the political dynamics.
Therefore a new parliament is required.
Which can only come about via a GENERAL ELECTION.0 -
The pain is in watching 650 mps acting like childrenJonathan said:
Not sure how you can discriminate the two. I hope she goes for her sake as much as anything. It can't be much fun. It's certainly painful to watch.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The comments were not pity but surprisingly supportiveJonathan said:
Pity is a powerful thing. Britains like a plucky loser. Doesn't mean she should not go and hasn't caused this mess.Big_G_NorthWales said:
From the public reaction on the media today it is the politicians who are the problem and TM is receiving surprisingly strong supportJonathan said:
The thread that has run through this is a lack of leadership. She created a vacuum that gave others the space to grow. No-one really is following her lead these days. The free for all we saw yesterday is the ultimate symptom of that.Sean_F said:
The mess has many authors.Jonathan said:
Indeed May really needs to wake up and take responsibility for the mess. The cul-de-sac we are now in is largely (but not exclusively) of her own making.Philip_Thompson said:May should get the self-awareness to realise that she is part of the problem and go.
We should all think what a calamitous mess of the constitution Cameron's FTPA has made.
I think she should step down, but the mess will remain.
The push and pull forces that come from a strong PM really are not there. No-one is convinced by her. No-one is afraid of her. She has tin ear and leaden feet. Its' a hard thing to say about someone clearly doing their best, but she really is the problem.0 -
They do but we still have piss weak Remainer May as our PM talking to our European neighbours. Put someone with a better handbag in charge and things would change.Nigel_Foremain said:
There has to be a time when even the most deluded have to face up to reality. I'd like to hear apologies from those that said it was going to be easy and that the German carmakers would mean they needed us more than we needed them.eek said:There are times when even Dan Hodges is correct
https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/10854766856366039040 -
I think the critical question is what, if any, steps can MPs take to prevent a March 29 exit with no deal?0
-
No Deal was one of the 'scare stories' put out by remain.Alanbrooke said:
could they also do one of all the scare stories put out by remain, could be a Netflix mini series.TheScreamingEagles said:Am told the People’s Vote (sic) lot are putting together a compilation of all the times the Leave campaigners said No Deal was Project Fear.
Contains over 100 clips and lasts nearly 20 minutes.
It was flatly denied by leave as part of 'project fear' - and is now being celebrated by some of your camp as the only true Brexit.0 -
I do not see how a conservative government or especially TM would even consider itPhilip_Thompson said:
Revoking would destroy the Tory Party and usher in a 20 year Corbynite government. That buggers the country.TheScreamingEagles said:
We’re buggered either way but I’d go for the option that doesn’t bugger the country as well.Nigelb said:
And what happens to them in the event of revoke ?TheScreamingEagles said:
I think he wants No Deal then an election.DanSmith said:
He wants an election more though.TheScreamingEagles said:Corbyn wants No Deal lest we forget.
That will influence his strategy and tactics.
The Tories get smashed in the event of sustained no deal.
At this point, the only sensible party political strategy for them is referendum, but even that is difficult to envisage, as May's long drawn out 'strategy' has subjected her deal to so many pails of shit being dumped over it from all sides, that it would be hard to offer to the public as a credible option.0 -
I don't think they can directly. The executive (government) does the negotiation. The MPs agree or disagree with that negotiation.TOPPING said:I think the critical question is what, if any, steps can MPs take to prevent a March 29 exit with no deal?
they don't have the power to do it themselves, only to direct the government indirectly and to agree/disagree/0 -
Jeremy Corbyn wanted it invoked immediately.....Nigel_Foremain said:
We may agree on that, but perhaps for differing reasons. A50 was hastily invoked, mainly from pressure from the headbangers. Meaningful negotiations should have started in advance of that, though the problem was the lazy idiot who told us it was going to be easy; a fool with the initials DD.Sean_F said:
The main culprits are those who voted to trigger A50, and then voted No last night. Never vote for something if you cannot abide it.Nigel_Foremain said:
She has a degree of responsibility for falling into line with the headbangers. The main culprits, though, are those that told the public it was a desirable project and worse still that it was all going to be "easy". They need to be called to account, and not let anywhere near any real positions of power, ever . Sadly, while we have a neo-communist as LOTO that seems less likely.Sean_F said:
The mess has many authors.Jonathan said:
Indeed May really needs to wake up and take responsibility for the mess. The cul-de-sac we are now in is largely (but not exclusively) of her own making.Philip_Thompson said:May should get the self-awareness to realise that she is part of the problem and go.
We should all think what a calamitous mess of the constitution Cameron's FTPA has made.
I think she should step down, but the mess will remain.0 -
You mean, other than the obvious step they failed to take last night?TOPPING said:I think the critical question is what, if any, steps can MPs take to prevent a March 29 exit with no deal?
0 -
MPs can vote for Mrs May's deal, the same one they rejected yesterday but with precisely three cosmetic tweaks to let them save face. Or they can lobby the Cabinet to force the PM out and revoke or extend Article 50.TOPPING said:I think the critical question is what, if any, steps can MPs take to prevent a March 29 exit with no deal?
0 -
They need to become the government.Slackbladder said:
I don't think they can directly. The executive (government) does the negotiation. The MPs agree or disagree with that negotiation.TOPPING said:I think the critical question is what, if any, steps can MPs take to prevent a March 29 exit with no deal?
they don't have the power to do it themselves, only to direct the government indirectly and to agree/disagree/0 -
Chatting last night, I was surprised at the sympathy for Mrs May, and not from the usual suspects. I think she's incompetent, but I also have some sympathy. Parliament is the surly teenager and she's the Mother.
"You've been told to tidy your room. now do it."
"Do I have to?"
"Yes."
"It's so unfair, I want to do something else."
"You promised you'd do it."
"Aw! It's too hard."0 -
Revoke vs Not Revoke ?Slackbladder said:I'm not sure a referendum is a fly
Remain Vs No Deal: Won't happen
Remain Vs May deal: Won't happen
Remain vs Softer Brexit: Possible, but still then needs an agreement with EU, which needs 'a deal' which the EU have said won't happen, and which no one in 'power' is prosing apart from some vague mentions from Labour.
So what referendum option is happening anytime soon?0 -
The EU probably have every right to be miffed today. The dire WA is pretty clearly what the Maybot wanted for her version of Brexit & the EU delivered their end.
That nobody else in the UK wanted such a dreadful proposition for the future is neither here or there.0 -
Good luck with blaming Corbyn for Brexit and IDS for Iraq. Voters will blame the Conservative and Labour governments respectively.MarqueeMark said:
Jeremy Corbyn wanted it invoked immediately.....Nigel_Foremain said:
We may agree on that, but perhaps for differing reasons. A50 was hastily invoked, mainly from pressure from the headbangers. Meaningful negotiations should have started in advance of that, though the problem was the lazy idiot who told us it was going to be easy; a fool with the initials DD.Sean_F said:
The main culprits are those who voted to trigger A50, and then voted No last night. Never vote for something if you cannot abide it.Nigel_Foremain said:
She has a degree of responsibility for falling into line with the headbangers. The main culprits, though, are those that told the public it was a desirable project and worse still that it was all going to be "easy". They need to be called to account, and not let anywhere near any real positions of power, ever . Sadly, while we have a neo-communist as LOTO that seems less likely.Sean_F said:
The mess has many authors.Jonathan said:
Indeed May really needs to wake up and take responsibility for the mess. The cul-de-sac we are now in is largely (but not exclusively) of her own making.Philip_Thompson said:May should get the self-awareness to realise that she is part of the problem and go.
We should all think what a calamitous mess of the constitution Cameron's FTPA has made.
I think she should step down, but the mess will remain.0 -
Given I am and have been in the soft Brexit camp who can you say is celebrating ?Nigelb said:
No Deal was one of the 'scare stories' put out by remain.Alanbrooke said:
could they also do one of all the scare stories put out by remain, could be a Netflix mini series.TheScreamingEagles said:Am told the People’s Vote (sic) lot are putting together a compilation of all the times the Leave campaigners said No Deal was Project Fear.
Contains over 100 clips and lasts nearly 20 minutes.
It was flatly denied by leave as part of 'project fear' - and is now being celebrated by some of your camp as the only true Brexit.0 -
In extremis, that could happen very quickly. But it requires someone to burn the bridge between the Tory remainers and their colleagues, first.tlg86 said:
They need to become the government.Slackbladder said:
I don't think they can directly. The executive (government) does the negotiation. The MPs agree or disagree with that negotiation.TOPPING said:I think the critical question is what, if any, steps can MPs take to prevent a March 29 exit with no deal?
they don't have the power to do it themselves, only to direct the government indirectly and to agree/disagree/
Or, just maybe, the threat that they would do it could be enough to get the government to bring forward the necessary proposal. I am sure it already exists.0 -
The government cannot just revoke or extend but they probably can do so provided it is accompanied by a Royal Commission or some such to plot a path to a successful Brexit, to be stuffed with headbangers like Farage and JRM.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do not see how a conservative government or especially TM would even consider itPhilip_Thompson said:
Revoking would destroy the Tory Party and usher in a 20 year Corbynite government. That buggers the country.TheScreamingEagles said:
We’re buggered either way but I’d go for the option that doesn’t bugger the country as well.Nigelb said:
And what happens to them in the event of revoke ?TheScreamingEagles said:
I think he wants No Deal then an election.DanSmith said:
He wants an election more though.TheScreamingEagles said:Corbyn wants No Deal lest we forget.
That will influence his strategy and tactics.
The Tories get smashed in the event of sustained no deal.
At this point, the only sensible party political strategy for them is referendum, but even that is difficult to envisage, as May's long drawn out 'strategy' has subjected her deal to so many pails of shit being dumped over it from all sides, that it would be hard to offer to the public as a credible option.0 -
Thats no deal vs remain in all but the same words.Nigelb said:
Revoke vs Not Revoke ?Slackbladder said:I'm not sure a referendum is a fly
Remain Vs No Deal: Won't happen
Remain Vs May deal: Won't happen
Remain vs Softer Brexit: Possible, but still then needs an agreement with EU, which needs 'a deal' which the EU have said won't happen, and which no one in 'power' is prosing apart from some vague mentions from Labour.
So what referendum option is happening anytime soon?0 -
That’s a very irregular verb.TheScreamingEagles said:
I thought you Leavers wanted immigrants to assimilate into the host country and not bring their own traditions with them?Sandpit said:
I’m getting seriously worried about Waitrose and M&S over here running out of food, the first thing to stop is going to be exports from the U.K. Where else is one supposed to find bacon over here?TheScreamingEagles said:
You can live with no deal in the safety of Dubai, those of who will have to deal with it on a daily basis aren’t so keen.Sandpit said:
So half the Conservatives, the Labour leadership and the SNP seem to want no-deal. Let’s get on with it!TheScreamingEagles said:Corbyn wants No Deal lest we forget.
That will influence his strategy and tactics.
More seriously, unless MPs can very quickly agree on the way forward, the preparations for no deal need to be stepped up a gear or two.
0 -
lolTheScreamingEagles said:
I thought you Leavers wanted immigrants to assimilate into the host country and not bring their own traditions with them?Sandpit said:
I’m getting seriously worried about Waitrose and M&S over here running out of food, the first thing to stop is going to be exports from the U.K. Where else is one supposed to find bacon over here?TheScreamingEagles said:
You can live with no deal in the safety of Dubai, those of who will have to deal with it on a daily basis aren’t so keen.Sandpit said:
So half the Conservatives, the Labour leadership and the SNP seem to want no-deal. Let’s get on with it!TheScreamingEagles said:Corbyn wants No Deal lest we forget.
That will influence his strategy and tactics.
More seriously, unless MPs can very quickly agree on the way forward, the preparations for no deal need to be stepped up a gear or two.0 -
As a legacy of my days in business I always listen to 5 live business review at 5.00am and then 5 live and this mornings phone ins and texts were surprisingly supportive of TM and the deal. Of course that was not everyone but it was more than expected and the theme was just get on and do itYorkcity said:
Supporting what ? A record losing PM, or her Brexit deal.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The comments were not pity but surprisingly supportiveJonathan said:
Pity is a powerful thing. Britains like a plucky loser. Doesn't mean she should not go and hasn't caused this mess.Big_G_NorthWales said:
From the public reaction on the media today it is the politicians who are the problem and TM is receiving surprisingly strong supportJonathan said:
The thread that has run through this is a lack of leadership. She created a vacuum that gave others the space to grow. No-one really is following her lead these days. The free for all we saw yesterday is the ultimate symptom of that.Sean_F said:
The mess has many authors.Jonathan said:
Indeed May really needs to wake up and take responsibility for the mess. The cul-de-sac we are now in is largely (but not exclusively) of her own making.Philip_Thompson said:May should get the self-awareness to realise that she is part of the problem and go.
We should all think what a calamitous mess of the constitution Cameron's FTPA has made.
I think she should step down, but the mess will remain.
The push and pull forces that come from a strong PM really are not there. No-one is convinced by her. No-one is afraid of her. She has tin ear and leaden feet. Its' a hard thing to say about someone clearly doing their best, but she really is the problem.
If that is the case no problem with a new referendum then.
That theme has continued on the broadcast media including Sky poll saying 53% do not want TM to be vonc. My opinion is that politicians are out of step with the public and even more from business. The business review was from Belfast and Irish business is 100% in favour of TM deal and not at all impressed with the DUP0 -
-
I'm just been accused of being an 'extreme centrist' on twitter.... brilliant.
but i think it might be a parody account...so difficult to tell these days 0 -
That is perhaps true - but it is expressed in clearcut terms which could be put in a referendum, which 'no deal' couldn't.Slackbladder said:
Thats no deal vs remain in all but the same words.Nigelb said:
Revoke vs Not Revoke ?Slackbladder said:I'm not sure a referendum is a fly
Remain Vs No Deal: Won't happen
Remain Vs May deal: Won't happen
Remain vs Softer Brexit: Possible, but still then needs an agreement with EU, which needs 'a deal' which the EU have said won't happen, and which no one in 'power' is prosing apart from some vague mentions from Labour.
So what referendum option is happening anytime soon?0 -
G, it is hard to convince people that anybody thinks May is trustworthy and should remain. She has been an abject failure, lied through her teeth and obfuscated to get her own way. If she had any morals or principles she would have stood down immediately after that humiliation last night. Sadly we see how low the country has fallen by the disreputable actions of our leaders.Big_G_NorthWales said:
As a legacy of my days in business I always listen to 5 live business review at 5.00am and then 5 live and this mornings phone ins and texts were surprisingly supportive of TM and the deal. Of course that was not everyone but it was more than expected and the theme was just get on and do itYorkcity said:
Supporting what ? A record losing PM, or her Brexit deal.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The comments were not pity but surprisingly supportiveJonathan said:
Pity is a powerful thing. Britains like a plucky loser. Doesn't mean she should not go and hasn't caused this mess.Big_G_NorthWales said:
From the public reaction on the media today it is the politicians who are the problem and TM is receiving surprisingly strong supportJonathan said:
The thread that has run through this is a lack of leadership. She created a vacuum that gave others the space to grow. No-one really is following her lead these days. The free for all we saw yesterday is the ultimate symptom of that.Sean_F said:
The mess has many authors.Jonathan said:
Indeed May really needs to wake up and take responsibility for the mess. The cul-de-sac we are now in is largely (but not exclusively) of her own making.Philip_Thompson said:May should get the self-awareness to realise that she is part of the problem and go.
We should all think what a calamitous mess of the constitution Cameron's FTPA has made.
I think she should step down, but the mess will remain.
The push and pull forces that come from a strong PM really are not there. No-one is convinced by her. No-one is afraid of her. She has tin ear and leaden feet. Its' a hard thing to say about someone clearly doing their best, but she really is the problem.
If that is the case no problem with a new referendum then.
That theme has continued on the broadcast media including Sky poll saying 53% do not want TM to be vonc. My opinion is that politicians are out of step with the public and even more from business. The business review was from Belfast and Irish business is 100% in favour of TM deal and not at all impressed with the DUP0 -
Long piece from Charles Grant on the Brexit process. Does not stir one's patriotic loins. The sheer amateurishness, incompetence and above all IGNORANCE within the British government defies belief.
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/brexit/2019/01/search-lost-brexit-how-uk-repeatedly-weakened-its-own-negotiating-position
'National officials, including in Germany, liked to report that business lobbies were pressing them to be tough on the integrity of the single market. “We have been urged not to let the British pick holes in the single market, lest that precedent lead to the whole thing unravelling,” said a Berlin official. “Business leaders tell us that the strength and integrity of the single market is much more important than the loss of a bit of trade with the UK.” '
'Brexiteer ministers assured the British people that the EU would not do anything that could endanger its trade surplus in manufactured goods with the UK. They were wrong.'0 -
the business lobby like the public is now at the point where they just want the thing put to bed.Big_G_NorthWales said:
As a legacy of my days in business I always listen to 5 live business review at 5.00am and then 5 live and this mornings phone ins and texts were surprisingly supportive of TM and the deal. Of course that was not everyone but it was more than expected and the theme was just get on and do itYorkcity said:
Supporting what ? A record losing PM, or her Brexit deal.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The comments were not pity but surprisingly supportiveJonathan said:
Pity is a powerful thing. Britains like a plucky loser. Doesn't mean she should not go and hasn't caused this mess.Big_G_NorthWales said:
From the public reaction on the media today it is the politicians who are the problem and TM is receiving surprisingly strong supportJonathan said:
The thread that has run through this is a lack of leadership. She created a vacuum that gave others the space to grow. No-one really is following her lead these days. The free for all we saw yesterday is the ultimate symptom of that.Sean_F said:
The mess has many authors.Jonathan said:
Indeed May really needs to wake up and take responsibility for the mess. The cul-de-sac we are now in is largely (but not exclusively) of her own making.Philip_Thompson said:May should get the self-awareness to realise that she is part of the problem and go.
We should all think what a calamitous mess of the constitution Cameron's FTPA has made.
I think she should step down, but the mess will remain.
The push and pull forces that come from a strong PM really are not there. No-one is convinced by her. No-one is afraid of her. She has tin ear and leaden feet. Its' a hard thing to say about someone clearly doing their best, but she really is the problem.
If that is the case no problem with a new referendum then.
That theme has continued on the broadcast media including Sky poll saying 53% do not want TM to be vonc. My opinion is that politicians are out of step with the public and even more from business. The business review was from Belfast and Irish business is 100% in favour of TM deal and not at all impressed with the DUP
MPs are more than a little self indulgent atm0 -
The EU are acting exactly as I anticipated. They are looking after number one. They'd prefer we stayed in and to that accord, they are happy to prevaricate and not set any deadlines. Eventually, we may well come round to their point of view and stay in. An extension? If you must and only for a good (for them) reason. Another referendum, as is their wont.
If we insist on leaving (and they're aware Parliament is for Remain), they must ensure we're not seen to benefit.
Project Fear can be left to British Remainers. On March 29th, British seabirds will plummet from the skies etc.
0 -
Well, yes, and the public as well.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The other opposition parties are unlikely to support repetitive voncBannedInParis said:
Hence, the promise that they'll do no confidence after no confidence etc etc.TheScreamingEagles said:Corbyn wants No Deal lest we forget.
That will influence his strategy and tactics.
This is not a grown up approach to politics.0 -
Read the previous thread for examples. By 'your camp', I meant the Brexit camp - but perhaps directed it too personally.Alanbrooke said:
Given I am and have been in the soft Brexit camp who can you say is celebrating ?Nigelb said:
No Deal was one of the 'scare stories' put out by remain.Alanbrooke said:
could they also do one of all the scare stories put out by remain, could be a Netflix mini series.TheScreamingEagles said:Am told the People’s Vote (sic) lot are putting together a compilation of all the times the Leave campaigners said No Deal was Project Fear.
Contains over 100 clips and lasts nearly 20 minutes.
It was flatly denied by leave as part of 'project fear' - and is now being celebrated by some of your camp as the only true Brexit.0 -
I agree with Big_G, there has been quite consistent support for the PM and her deal on vox pops I have heard*. Not great enthusiasm, but support in a "it's the best we are likely to get" sort of way. The public seems much more realistic and less polarized than our politicians.Jonathan said:Not sure how you can discriminate the two. I hope she goes for her sake as much as anything. It can't be much fun. It's certainly painful to watch.
* And I have heard enough to last a lifetime.0
