politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Matters of confidence. What to expect if the government loses
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Probably the latter, but other countries will watch in disbelief as the UK's governing party is taken over by the League of Empire Loyalists.Dura_Ace said:
I don't know whether GW is so completely fucked in the head that he actually believes this swill or he is so venal that he is spewing it for the benefit of the desiccated nationalists who will decide the next tory leadership campaign.SouthamObserver said:
He has a Tory leadership contest to win.
As does the ridiculous Gavin Williamson.
https://twitter.com/spajw/status/1079349162540441600?s=21
The 1973-74 crisis gave Sir Humphrey a nervous breakdown
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1058788/Revealed-The-day-Britains-civil-servant-rolled-naked-floor-ranting-end-world.html
but the whole country is now having one.
It needs therapy. Unfortunately, tax-cutting governments have closed all the retreats ...0 -
Yes and City lost 2 games over Christmas. But still...OldKingCole said:
Accrington Stanley are, though, getting better and catching up.DavidL said:
We are “just behind” the United States in the same way as Accrington Stanley are just behind Man City. We don’t have even 1/10th of their capability or reach and we are deluding ourselves to pretend otherwise.HYUFD said:
Well to be fair in the pecking order of Western military and diplomatic power while the US leads we are just behind, helped by Commonwealth ties, though France under Macron is catching up fastSouthamObserver said:
He has a Tory leadership contest to win.DavidL said:
221 since the start of November according to the BBC. Which is still a small number when some estimate that there may be 1m illegal immigrants in London alone.Theuniondivvie said:
There was a vox pop on the radio this am with some diddy saying 'they might be terrorists, they look like families but who knows?'SouthamObserver said:I sniff a Tory leadership contest ...
https://twitter.com/JFCrisp/status/1079135229653192706
Javid may be crap on all available evidence, but he's certainly attuned to the dog whistles de jour.
I quite like Javid but I thought that his decision not to deploy further ships in the Channel was pretty disgusting. He is basically saying I would rather people drown than us risk more coming on the back of an improved prospect of rescue. It is profoundly immoral.
As does the ridiculous Gavin Williamson.
https://twitter.com/spajw/status/1079349162540441600?s=21
Er....
As a United fan this championship race is looking peculiarly grim. Who do I want to lose the most?0 -
On the contrary, his is the only moral stance.DavidL said:
221 since the start of November according to the BBC. Which is still a small number when some estimate that there may be 1m illegal immigrants in London alone.Theuniondivvie said:
There was a vox pop on the radio this am with some diddy saying 'they might be terrorists, they look like families but who knows?'SouthamObserver said:I sniff a Tory leadership contest ...
https://twitter.com/JFCrisp/status/1079135229653192706
Javid may be crap on all available evidence, but he's certainly attuned to the dog whistles de jour.
I quite like Javid but I thought that his decision not to deploy further ships in the Channel was pretty disgusting. He is basically saying I would rather people drown than us risk more coming on the back of an improved prospect of rescue. It is profoundly immoral.
Compare and contrast Australia and the EU. The former does not let boats land, and tows them back out to sea. Consequently, migrant flows and drownings are at relatively low levels. The EU rescues migrants, which leads to vastly higher numbers attempting the trip in vessels that are not seaworthy, leading to more deaths overall.
Well-meaning policies can lead to real people dying.0 -
Mr. Kinabalu, I think that's recognition of the immense difficulty of May's task (but not recognition of her, nevertheless, buggering it up tremendously).0
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Trudeau's Canada and Ardern's New Zealand may be more appealing to social democrats but neither are going to effectively lead the way in standing up to China and Russia and extremist Islamic terrorismOldKingCole said:
As far as moral leadership is concerned, in many areas Canada and New Zealand are better role models than May's Britain.HYUFD said:
Well to be fair in the pecking order of Western military and diplomatic power while the US leads we are just behind, helped by Commonwealth ties, though France under Macron is catching up fastSouthamObserver said:
He has a Tory leadership contest to win.DavidL said:
221 since the start of November according to the BBC. Which is still a small number when some estimate that there may be 1m illegal immigrants in London alone.Theuniondivvie said:
There was a vox pop on the radio this am with some diddy saying 'they might be terrorists, they look like families but who knows?'SouthamObserver said:I sniff a Tory leadership contest ...
https://twitter.com/JFCrisp/status/1079135229653192706
Javid may be crap on all available evidence, but he's certainly attuned to the dog whistles de jour.
I quite like Javid but I thought that his decision not to deploy further ships in the Channel was pretty disgusting. He is basically saying I would rather people drown than us risk more coming on the back of an improved prospect of rescue. It is profoundly immoral.
As does the ridiculous Gavin Williamson.
https://twitter.com/spajw/status/1079349162540441600?s=210 -
I once did a case in Campbeltown Sheriff Court. It is a hell of a long way from anywhere. The idea of spending serious money to establish a major transport link into that part of the country is completely mad.malcolmg said:
Absolutely stupid idea, as bad as HS2Andrew said:
It'd be from Galloway if they ever did it. Apparently something like £20bn, including dealing with the old WW2 explosives dump :-)JosiasJessop said:
That's quite an incredible comment. The cost and complexities of a fixed link between NI and mainland Scotland are fantastic, and would make the Channel Tunnel look easy. The economics of it are p*ss poor as well, especially as you'd have to build the link from Kintyre to the Central Belt.0 -
The WT is indeed mainly to satisfy the EU. A taste of things to come when FTA talks get underway, one fears. That is the reality of the imbalance. David would not slay Goliath in the real world. He'd get a right old mauling.AlastairMeeks said:A vision that includes Remain aspirations. The withdrawal treaty is largely the EU’s creation.
Remain(er) aspirations? The most important one is surely FOM. Certainly for me that is the best thing of the many good things about the EU. But we are in an enlightened minority. You yourself write frequently on here about how xenophobia drove the Leave vote. I agree with you.
But put that another way. The desire to end FOM was perhaps the single biggest reason why Leave won the referendum.
Now if this is true, and I think it is, then TM was surely correct to have drawn it as a great big thick red line.0 -
I think that we will just have to agree to disagree on this one.RoyalBlue said:
On the contrary, his is the only moral stance.DavidL said:
221 since the start of November according to the BBC. Which is still a small number when some estimate that there may be 1m illegal immigrants in London alone.Theuniondivvie said:
There was a vox pop on the radio this am with some diddy saying 'they might be terrorists, they look like families but who knows?'SouthamObserver said:I sniff a Tory leadership contest ...
https://twitter.com/JFCrisp/status/1079135229653192706
Javid may be crap on all available evidence, but he's certainly attuned to the dog whistles de jour.
I quite like Javid but I thought that his decision not to deploy further ships in the Channel was pretty disgusting. He is basically saying I would rather people drown than us risk more coming on the back of an improved prospect of rescue. It is profoundly immoral.
Compare and contrast Australia and the EU. The former does not let boats land, and tows them back out to sea. Consequently, migrant flows and drownings are at relatively low levels. The EU rescues migrants, which leads to vastly higher numbers attempting the trip in vessels that are not seaworthy, leading to more deaths overall.
Well-meaning policies can lead to real people dying.0 -
People nay wish to buy they cannot, even a Corbyn first term did be defined by trying to get a Deal with the EU which will also affect how much it has to spend at homejustin124 said:Were a General Election to come about , Labour would simply decline to engage on Brexit to any significant extent. They would seek to change the subject - as happened in both 2017 and February 1974 - by raising other issues to which voters can much more readily relate.The chances of managing that over a six week campaign period seem good to me. People wish to move on!
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pieK7b4KLL4OldKingCole said:
Accrington Stanley are, though, getting better and catching up.DavidL said:
We are “just behind” the United States in the same way as Accrington Stanley are just behind Man City. We don’t have even 1/10th of their capability or reach and we are deluding ourselves to pretend otherwise.HYUFD said:
Well to be fair in the pecking order of Western military and diplomatic power while the US leads we are just behind, helped by Commonwealth ties, though France under Macron is catching up fastSouthamObserver said:
He has a Tory leadership contest to win.DavidL said:
221 since the start of November according to the BBC. Which is still a small number when some estimate that there may be 1m illegal immigrants in London alone.Theuniondivvie said:
There was a vox pop on the radio this am with some diddy saying 'they might be terrorists, they look like families but who knows?'SouthamObserver said:I sniff a Tory leadership contest ...
https://twitter.com/JFCrisp/status/1079135229653192706
Javid may be crap on all available evidence, but he's certainly attuned to the dog whistles de jour.
I quite like Javid but I thought that his decision not to deploy further ships in the Channel was pretty disgusting. He is basically saying I would rather people drown than us risk more coming on the back of an improved prospect of rescue. It is profoundly immoral.
As does the ridiculous Gavin Williamson.
https://twitter.com/spajw/status/1079349162540441600?s=21
Er....0 -
As with many of the potential scenarios, Corbyn is of course the impedimentBarnesian said:
Good thinking. I hadn't thought of that.HYUFD said:If the government lose a VONC I am not so sure the DUP would prefer a general election to propping up a Corbyn government instead. In the case of the latter they are still Kingmaker and can dictate terms, in the case of either a Tory or Corbyn majority government or a Corbyn and SNP government after a general election however the DUP and their agenda can be dismissed as irrelevant.
The DUP are also likely to have seen the Northern Ireland polls showing No Deal makes a united Ireland more likely, in some respects therefore a Corbyn style permanent Customs Union plus single market elements on workers' rights for the whole UK is better than the backstop for Northern Ireland alone for the DUP and also poses less of a threat to the Union. Notice too even John McDonnell joking about getting out his orange sash.
Do not rule out therefore PM Corbyn by the middle of next year, propped up by the SNP, the LDs, the DUP, Plaid and the Greens and BINO Brexit in a similar scenario to Spain now where the Socialists are in power without having won a general election and despite having significantly fewer MPs than the main conservatives due to manoueverings of minority parties in parliament0 -
He's a leaver, so he can just wish away any practical, financial or economic concerns with his magic Brexit stick....JosiasJessop said:
That's quite an incredible comment. The cost and complexities of a fixed link between NI and mainland Scotland are fantastic, and would make the Channel Tunnel look easy. The economics of it are p*ss poor as well, especially as you'd have to build the link from Kintyre to the Central Belt.MarqueeMark said:
As I've mentioned before, the tunnel/bridge combo linking (Northern) Ireland to Scotland would be a huge commitment they could extract. The billions it will cost are years down the line. She could cancel HS2 to pay for it. And get Varadkar to have the EU pull the back stop in exchange. Everyone happy. What's not to love?Roger said:
The DUP can be bought. That much we know. If Mrs May is serious why doesn't she just find out their price and pay it? The electoral arithmetic will never be as favourable again. This is a once in a lifetime chance to fill their pockets.0 -
There is also the small matter of the most active fault system in the British Isles that runs down the Irish Sea and is the source of the majority of the significant earthquakes in the UK.Andrew said:
It'd be from Galloway if they ever did it. Apparently something like £20bn, including dealing with the old WW2 explosives dump :-)JosiasJessop said:
That's quite an incredible comment. The cost and complexities of a fixed link between NI and mainland Scotland are fantastic, and would make the Channel Tunnel look easy. The economics of it are p*ss poor as well, especially as you'd have to build the link from Kintyre to the Central Belt.0 -
We are still a UN Security Council, nuclear power with the strongest military outside the US of any western power besides France. Indeed as the US withdraws from Syria it is the UK and France who will keep a western presence there.DavidL said:
We are “just behind” the United States in the same way as Accrington Stanley are just behind Man City. We don’t have even 1/10th of their capability or reach and we are deluding ourselves to pretend otherwise.HYUFD said:
Well to be fair in the pecking order of Western military and diplomatic power while the US leads we are just behind, helped by Commonwealth ties, though France under Macron is catching up fastSouthamObserver said:
He has a Tory leadership contest to win.DavidL said:
221 since the start of November according to the BBC. Which is still a small number when some estimate that there may be 1m illegal immigrants in London alone.Theuniondivvie said:
There was a vox pop on the radio this am with some diddy saying 'they might be terrorists, they look like families but who knows?'SouthamObserver said:I sniff a Tory leadership contest ...
https://twitter.com/JFCrisp/status/1079135229653192706
Javid may be crap on all available evidence, but he's certainly attuned to the dog whistles de jour.
I quite like Javid but I thought that his decision not to deploy further ships in the Channel was pretty disgusting. He is basically saying I would rather people drown than us risk more coming on the back of an improved prospect of rescue. It is profoundly immoral.
As does the ridiculous Gavin Williamson.
https://twitter.com/spajw/status/1079349162540441600?s=21
The US leads and will always lead the Western Alliance but ourselves and France are the next biggest components of it0 -
I hate phrases like "some estimate". London has a population of approximately nine million people. That would mean that more than 10% of Londoners are illegal immigrants. That would mean that illegal immigrants outnumber legal non-EU immigrants in the capital. So, for every American or Canadian or Australian you meet, there are one and a half illegal immigrants from... errr... where exactly?DavidL said:
221 since the start of November according to the BBC. Which is still a small number when some estimate that there may be 1m illegal immigrants in London alone.Theuniondivvie said:
There was a vox pop on the radio this am with some diddy saying 'they might be terrorists, they look like families but who knows?'SouthamObserver said:I sniff a Tory leadership contest ...
https://twitter.com/JFCrisp/status/1079135229653192706
Javid may be crap on all available evidence, but he's certainly attuned to the dog whistles de jour.
Yet these illegal immigrants somehow manage to avoid using the health service in great numbers, or having babies, or being in any way detectable. If more than 10% of the London population was illegal, that would one in six workers were too.
It would mean that it wouldn't just be Albanian car washers, but every restaurant would contain a number of illegals.
There are, I'm sure a great many illegal immigrants in London. But one million? That is, I suspect, an order of magnitude too high.0 -
Don’t tell the DUP!Richard_Tyndall said:
There is also the small matter of the most active fault system in the British Isles that runs down the Irish Sea and is the source of the majority of the significant earthquakes in the UK.Andrew said:
It'd be from Galloway if they ever did it. Apparently something like £20bn, including dealing with the old WW2 explosives dump :-)JosiasJessop said:
That's quite an incredible comment. The cost and complexities of a fixed link between NI and mainland Scotland are fantastic, and would make the Channel Tunnel look easy. The economics of it are p*ss poor as well, especially as you'd have to build the link from Kintyre to the Central Belt.0 -
I believe RoyalBlue is absolutely correct in this case. It is one of the reasons I believe Merkel has the blood of many migrants on her hands.DavidL said:
I think that we will just have to agree to disagree on this one.RoyalBlue said:
On the contrary, his is the only moral stance.DavidL said:
221 since the start of November according to the BBC. Which is still a small number when some estimate that there may be 1m illegal immigrants in London alone.Theuniondivvie said:
There was a vox pop on the radio this am with some diddy saying 'they might be terrorists, they look like families but who knows?'SouthamObserver said:I sniff a Tory leadership contest ...
https://twitter.com/JFCrisp/status/1079135229653192706
Javid may be crap on all available evidence, but he's certainly attuned to the dog whistles de jour.
I quite like Javid but I thought that his decision not to deploy further ships in the Channel was pretty disgusting. He is basically saying I would rather people drown than us risk more coming on the back of an improved prospect of rescue. It is profoundly immoral.
Compare and contrast Australia and the EU. The former does not let boats land, and tows them back out to sea. Consequently, migrant flows and drownings are at relatively low levels. The EU rescues migrants, which leads to vastly higher numbers attempting the trip in vessels that are not seaworthy, leading to more deaths overall.
Well-meaning policies can lead to real people dying.0 -
There is a certain commonality of magic thinking between some of the Brexit handwavers and Corbyn’s more credulous acolytes...IanB2 said:
He's a leaver, so he can just wish away any practical, financial or economic concerns with his magic Brexit stick....JosiasJessop said:
That's quite an incredible comment. The cost and complexities of a fixed link between NI and mainland Scotland are fantastic, and would make the Channel Tunnel look easy. The economics of it are p*ss poor as well, especially as you'd have to build the link from Kintyre to the Central Belt.MarqueeMark said:
As I've mentioned before, the tunnel/bridge combo linking (Northern) Ireland to Scotland would be a huge commitment they could extract. The billions it will cost are years down the line. She could cancel HS2 to pay for it. And get Varadkar to have the EU pull the back stop in exchange. Everyone happy. What's not to love?Roger said:
The DUP can be bought. That much we know. If Mrs May is serious why doesn't she just find out their price and pay it? The electoral arithmetic will never be as favourable again. This is a once in a lifetime chance to fill their pockets.
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As the threat of Islamic terrorism remains and China is still no ally of Australia and New Zealand neither nation can afford to ignore the Western AllianceDura_Ace said:
"just behind"HYUFD said:
Well to be fair in the pecking order of Western military and diplomatic power while the US leads we are just behind, helped by Commonwealth ties, though France under Macron is catching up fast
US Navy escorts:230
RN escorts: 17
Geography means we aren't that well integrated with the preeminent commonwealth military (Australia) so we rarely exercise with them. Most of the UK-Australian (and NZ to a lesser extent) officer exchange programs have been stopped as the exchangees had a habit doing a lateral transfers into the ADF and not coming back.0 -
Have you any evidence to show No Deal will not hit the economy, besides trying to use it as a tool for Scottish independence?malcolmg said:
Have you any evidence to support your fantasy, preferably not CCHQ propaganda as well.HYUFD said:
No Deal appeals most to wealthy, privileged, home owning, retired people for whom a recession, rising unemployment and the threat of negative equity and home repossessions is less of a risk. Even a lot of City Workers will lose their jobs under No Deal, at least if they want to stay working in the UKSouthamObserver said:
No Deal is a fantasy that does seem to appeal mostly to the kind of wealthy, privileged people who will suffer few of its consequences.daodao said:
Good for JC, particularly if he can in future plausibly claim not to have been involved, so his hands would be "clean".SouthamObserver said:Most of the time most MPs will do the thing that is most likely to give them most chance of remaining an MP. From here, for Tory MPs that means voting to ensure that the UK leaves the EU on 29th March 2019 and for Labour MPs it is making sure to do what Jeremy tells them to do. Thus, a government led by Theresa May will take us out of the EU on 29th March 2019. The only issue is whether it will be under her deal or No Deal. May would prefer the former, Corbyn the latter. It could be that Jeremy is the one who gets his way.
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Liverpool and Man City. Let Spurs win it for once.DavidL said:
Yes and City lost 2 games over Christmas. But still...OldKingCole said:
Accrington Stanley are, though, getting better and catching up.DavidL said:
We are “just behind” the United States in the same way as Accrington Stanley are just behind Man City. We don’t have even 1/10th of their capability or reach and we are deluding ourselves to pretend otherwise.HYUFD said:
Well to be fair in the pecking order of Western military and diplomatic power while the US leads we are just behind, helped by Commonwealth ties, though France under Macron is catching up fastSouthamObserver said:
He has a Tory leadership contest to win.DavidL said:
221 since the start of November according to the BBC. Which is still a small number when some estimate that there may be 1m illegal immigrants in London alone.Theuniondivvie said:
There was a vox pop on the radio this am with some diddy saying 'they might be terrorists, they look like families but who knows?'SouthamObserver said:I sniff a Tory leadership contest ...
https://twitter.com/JFCrisp/status/1079135229653192706
Javid may be crap on all available evidence, but he's certainly attuned to the dog whistles de jour.
I quite like Javid but I thought that his decision not to deploy further ships in the Channel was pretty disgusting. He is basically saying I would rather people drown than us risk more coming on the back of an improved prospect of rescue. It is profoundly immoral.
As does the ridiculous Gavin Williamson.
https://twitter.com/spajw/status/1079349162540441600?s=21
Er....
As a United fan this championship race is looking peculiarly grim. Who do I want to lose the most?0 -
Turkey’s army is about twice the size of the UK and France put together. In a conventional war I am not sure I would fancy our chances.HYUFD said:
We are still a UN Security Council, nuclear power with the strongest military outside the US of any western power besides France. Indeed as the US withdraws from Syria it is the UK and France who will keep a western presence there.DavidL said:
We are “just behind” the United States in the same way as Accrington Stanley are just behind Man City. We don’t have even 1/10th of their capability or reach and we are deluding ourselves to pretend otherwise.HYUFD said:
Well to be fair in the pecking order of Western military and diplomatic power while the US leads we are just behind, helped by Commonwealth ties, though France under Macron is catching up fastSouthamObserver said:
He has a Tory leadership contest to win.DavidL said:
221 since the start of November according to the BBC. Which is still a small number when some estimate that there may be 1m illegal immigrants in London alone.Theuniondivvie said:
There was a vox pop on the radio this am with some diddy saying 'they might be terrorists, they look like families but who knows?'SouthamObserver said:I sniff a Tory leadership contest ...
https://twitter.com/JFCrisp/status/1079135229653192706
Javid may be crap on all available evidence, but he's certainly attuned to the dog whistles de jour.
I quite like Javid but I thought that his decision not to deploy further ships in the Channel was pretty disgusting. He is basically saying I would rather people drown than us risk more coming on the back of an improved prospect of rescue. It is profoundly immoral.
As does the ridiculous Gavin Williamson.
https://twitter.com/spajw/status/1079349162540441600?s=21
The US leads and will always lead the Western Alliance but ourselves and France are the next biggest components of it0 -
There are certain geographic differences which render the comparison a little less than convincing.Richard_Tyndall said:
I believe RoyalBlue is absolutely correct in this case. It is one of the reasons I believe Merkel has the blood of many migrants on her hands.DavidL said:
I think that we will just have to agree to disagree on this one.RoyalBlue said:
On the contrary, his is the only moral stance.DavidL said:
221 since the start of November according to the BBC. Which is still a small number when some estimate that there may be 1m illegal immigrants in London alone.Theuniondivvie said:
There was a vox pop on the radio this am with some diddy saying 'they might be terrorists, they look like families but who knows?'SouthamObserver said:I sniff a Tory leadership contest ...
https://twitter.com/JFCrisp/status/1079135229653192706
Javid may be crap on all available evidence, but he's certainly attuned to the dog whistles de jour.
I quite like Javid but I thought that his decision not to deploy further ships in the Channel was pretty disgusting. He is basically saying I would rather people drown than us risk more coming on the back of an improved prospect of rescue. It is profoundly immoral.
Compare and contrast Australia and the EU. The former does not let boats land, and tows them back out to sea. Consequently, migrant flows and drownings are at relatively low levels. The EU rescues migrants, which leads to vastly higher numbers attempting the trip in vessels that are not seaworthy, leading to more deaths overall.
Well-meaning policies can lead to real people dying.
0 -
How did Surs get on yesterday, I missed the results?Benpointer said:
Liverpool and Man City. Let Spurs win it for once.DavidL said:
Yes and City lost 2 games over Christmas. But still...OldKingCole said:
Accrington Stanley are, though, getting better and catching up.DavidL said:
We are “just behind” the United States in the same way as Accrington Stanley are just behind Man City. We don’t have even 1/10th of their capability or reach and we are deluding ourselves to pretend otherwise.HYUFD said:
Well to be fair in the pecking order of Western military and diplomatic power while the US leads we are just behind, helped by Commonwealth ties, though France under Macron is catching up fastSouthamObserver said:
He has a Tory leadership contest to win.DavidL said:
221 since the start of November according to the BBC. Which is still a small number when some estimate that there may be 1m illegal immigrants in London alone.Theuniondivvie said:
There was a vox pop on the radio this am with some diddy saying 'they might be terrorists, they look like families but who knows?'SouthamObserver said:I sniff a Tory leadership contest ...
https://twitter.com/JFCrisp/status/1079135229653192706
Javid may be crap on all available evidence, but he's certainly attuned to the dog whistles de jour.
I quite like Javid but I thought that his decision not to deploy further ships in the Channel was pretty disgusting. He is basically saying I would rather people drown than us risk more coming on the back of an improved prospect of rescue. It is profoundly immoral.
As does the ridiculous Gavin Williamson.
https://twitter.com/spajw/status/1079349162540441600?s=21
Er....
As a United fan this championship race is looking peculiarly grim. Who do I want to lose the most?
0 -
LOL, unable to stop a handful of Iranians , we are a joke of a country.HYUFD said:
We are still a UN Security Council, nuclear power with the strongest military outside the US of any western power besides France. Indeed as the US withdraws from Syria it is the UK and France who will keep a western presence there.DavidL said:
We are “just behind” the United States in the same way as Accrington Stanley are just behind Man City. We don’t have even 1/10th of their capability or reach and we are deluding ourselves to pretend otherwise.HYUFD said:
Well to be fair in the pecking order of Western military and diplomatic power while the US leads we are just behind, helped by Commonwealth ties, though France under Macron is catching up fastSouthamObserver said:
He has a Tory leadership contest to win.DavidL said:
221 since the start of November according to the BBC. Which is still a small number when some estimate that there may be 1m illegal immigrants in London alone.Theuniondivvie said:
There was a vox pop on the radio this am with some diddy saying 'they might be terrorists, they look like families but who knows?'SouthamObserver said:I sniff a Tory leadership contest ...
https://twitter.com/JFCrisp/status/1079135229653192706
Javid may be crap on all available evidence, but he's certainly attuned to the dog whistles de jour.
I quite like Javid but I thought that his decision not to deploy further ships in the Channel was pretty disgusting. He is basically saying I would rather people drown than us risk more coming on the back of an improved prospect of rescue. It is profoundly immoral.
As does the ridiculous Gavin Williamson.
https://twitter.com/spajw/status/1079349162540441600?s=21
The US leads and will always lead the Western Alliance but ourselves and France are the next biggest components of it0 -
Just as well you did, you'd have not liked the LCFC oneFoxy said:
How did Surs get on yesterday, I missed the results?Benpointer said:
Liverpool and Man City. Let Spurs win it for once.DavidL said:
Yes and City lost 2 games over Christmas. But still...OldKingCole said:
Accrington Stanley are, though, getting better and catching up.DavidL said:
We are “just behind” the United States in the same way as Accrington Stanley are just behind Man City. We don’t have even 1/10th of their capability or reach and we are deluding ourselves to pretend otherwise.HYUFD said:
Well to be fair in the pecking order of Western military and diplomatic power while the US leads we are just behind, helped by Commonwealth ties, though France under Macron is catching up fastSouthamObserver said:
He has a Tory leadership contest to win.DavidL said:
221 since the start of November according to the BBC. Which is still a small number when some estimate that there may be 1m illegal immigrants in London alone.Theuniondivvie said:
There was a vox pop on the radio this am with some diddy saying 'they might be terrorists, they look like families but who knows?'SouthamObserver said:I sniff a Tory leadership contest ...
https://twitter.com/JFCrisp/status/1079135229653192706
Javid may be crap on all available evidence, but he's certainly attuned to the dog whistles de jour.
I quite like Javid but I thought that his decision not to deploy further ships in the Channel was pretty disgusting. He is basically saying I would rather people drown than us risk more coming on the back of an improved prospect of rescue. It is profoundly immoral.
As does the ridiculous Gavin Williamson.
https://twitter.com/spajw/status/1079349162540441600?s=21
Er....
As a United fan this championship race is looking peculiarly grim. Who do I want to lose the most?
0 -
I would have thought the pre-eminent Commonwealth military is India?Dura_Ace said:
"just behind"HYUFD said:
Well to be fair in the pecking order of Western military and diplomatic power while the US leads we are just behind, helped by Commonwealth ties, though France under Macron is catching up fast
US Navy escorts:230
RN escorts: 17
Geography means we aren't that well integrated with the preeminent commonwealth military (Australia) so we rarely exercise with them.0 -
That's my view too, at least for Labour (I don't know the Conservative mood as well). You can say all sorts of things, and revolt on a variety of issues, and colleagues in the CLP will shrug with mild irritation, but defecting on a VONC would alienate the middle ground of members who have no strong feelings on Brexit. The best you could hope for would be that a handful of the local exec (who are close to you from daily contact) would leave with you.justin124 said:<
No - CLPs and Tory Associations would react immediately to such behaviour and the MPs concerned would place themselves beyond the pale. As the 2017 election showed, new candidates could be chosen at very short notice.MPs who vote against their party on a VONC would fight any general election as Independents - were they to stand at all.
0 -
Given we stayed out of Vietnam the UK has not actually lost a War since the US War of Independencemalcolmg said:
LOL, unable to stop a handful of Iranians , we are a joke of a country.HYUFD said:
We are still a UN Security Council, nuclear power with the strongest military outside the US of any western power besides France. Indeed as the US withdraws from Syria it is the UK and France who will keep a western presence there.DavidL said:
We are “just behind” the United States in the same way as Accrington Stanley are just behind Man City. We don’t have even 1/10th of their capability or reach and we are deluding ourselves to pretend otherwise.HYUFD said:
Well to be fair in the pecking order of Western military and diplomatic power while the US leads we are just behind, helped by Commonwealth ties, though France under Macron is catching up fastSouthamObserver said:
He has a Tory leadership contest to win.DavidL said:
221 since the start of November according to the BBC. Which is still a small number when some estimate that there may be 1m illegal immigrants in London alone.Theuniondivvie said:
There was a vox pop on the radio this am with some diddy saying 'they might be terrorists, they look like families but who knows?'SouthamObserver said:I sniff a Tory leadership contest ...
https://twitter.com/JFCrisp/status/1079135229653192706
Javid may be crap on all available evidence, but he's certainly attuned to the dog whistles de jour.
I quite like Javid but I thought that his decision not to deploy further ships in the Channel was pretty disgusting. He is basically saying I would rather people drown than us risk more coming on the back of an improved prospect of rescue. It is profoundly immoral.
As does the ridiculous Gavin Williamson.
https://twitter.com/spajw/status/1079349162540441600?s=21
The US leads and will always lead the Western Alliance but ourselves and France are the next biggest components of it0 -
That's true. But you are leaving out the other big factor that allows us to punch above our weight. Membership of the EU gives us clout as well.HYUFD said:
Well to be fair in the pecking order of Western military and diplomatic power while the US leads we are just behind, helped by Commonwealth ties, though France under Macron is catching up fastSouthamObserver said:
He has a Tory leadership contest to win.DavidL said:
221 since the start of November according to the BBC. Which is still a small number when some estimate that there may be 1m illegal immigrants in London alone.Theuniondivvie said:
There was a vox pop on the radio this am with some diddy saying 'they might be terrorists, they look like families but who knows?'SouthamObserver said:I sniff a Tory leadership contest ...
https://twitter.com/JFCrisp/status/1079135229653192706
Javid may be crap on all available evidence, but he's certainly attuned to the dog whistles de jour.
I quite like Javid but I thought that his decision not to deploy further ships in the Channel was pretty disgusting. He is basically saying I would rather people drown than us risk more coming on the back of an improved prospect of rescue. It is profoundly immoral.
As does the ridiculous Gavin Williamson.
https://twitter.com/spajw/status/1079349162540441600?s=210 -
However as we well know the systems in this country are so crap that there will be no linkage with NHS paper systems and any other government system , so would be easy to stay off radar.rcs1000 said:
I hate phrases like "some estimate". London has a population of approximately nine million people. That would mean that more than 10% of Londoners are illegal immigrants. That would mean that illegal immigrants outnumber legal non-EU immigrants in the capital. So, for every American or Canadian or Australian you meet, there are one and a half illegal immigrants from... errr... where exactly?DavidL said:
221 since the start of November according to the BBC. Which is still a small number when some estimate that there may be 1m illegal immigrants in London alone.Theuniondivvie said:
There was a vox pop on the radio this am with some diddy saying 'they might be terrorists, they look like families but who knows?'SouthamObserver said:I sniff a Tory leadership contest ...
https://twitter.com/JFCrisp/status/1079135229653192706
Javid may be crap on all available evidence, but he's certainly attuned to the dog whistles de jour.
Yet these illegal immigrants somehow manage to avoid using the health service in great numbers, or having babies, or being in any way detectable. If more than 10% of the London population was illegal, that would one in sex workers were too.
It would mean that it wouldn't just be Albanian car washers, but every restaurant would contain a number of illegals.
There are, I'm sure a great many illegal immigrants in London. But one million? That is, I suspect, an order of magnitude too high.0 -
...by a long chalk.Sunil_Prasannan said:
I would have thought the pre-eminent Commonwealth military is India?Dura_Ace said:
"just behind"HYUFD said:
Well to be fair in the pecking order of Western military and diplomatic power while the US leads we are just behind, helped by Commonwealth ties, though France under Macron is catching up fast
US Navy escorts:230
RN escorts: 17
Geography means we aren't that well integrated with the preeminent commonwealth military (Australia) so we rarely exercise with them.0 -
US Navy escorts:230HYUFD said:
As the threat of Islamic terrorism remains and China is still no ally of Australia and New Zealand neither nation can afford to ignore the Western AllianceDura_Ace said:
"just behind"HYUFD said:
Well to be fair in the pecking order of Western military and diplomatic power while the US leads we are just behind, helped by Commonwealth ties, though France under Macron is catching up fast
US Navy escorts:230
RN escorts: 17
Geography means we aren't that well integrated with the preeminent commonwealth military (Australia) so we rarely exercise with them. Most of the UK-Australian (and NZ to a lesser extent) officer exchange programs have been stopped as the exchangees had a habit doing a lateral transfers into the ADF and not coming back.
RN escorts: 17
Bet we have more admirals than them though.0 -
Actually the EU intervention has been to support the Libyan coastguard to return migrants to Libya, and the EU land forces in the Sahel have significantly reduced the numbers arriving in North Africa. The numbers crossing the Med is now back to the figure from a decade ago.RoyalBlue said:
On the contrary, his is the only moral stance.DavidL said:
221 since the start of November according to the BBC. Which is still a small number when some estimate that there may be 1m illegal immigrants in London alone.Theuniondivvie said:
There was a vox pop on the radio this am with some diddy saying 'they might be terrorists, they look like families but who knows?'SouthamObserver said:I sniff a Tory leadership contest ...
https://twitter.com/JFCrisp/status/1079135229653192706
Javid may be crap on all available evidence, but he's certainly attuned to the dog whistles de jour.
I quite like Javid but I thought that his decision not to deploy further ships in the Channel was pretty disgusting. He is basically saying I would rather people drown than us risk more coming on the back of an improved prospect of rescue. It is profoundly immoral.
Compare and contrast Australia and the EU. The former does not let boats land, and tows them back out to sea. Consequently, migrant flows and drownings are at relatively low levels. The EU rescues migrants, which leads to vastly higher numbers attempting the trip in vessels that are not seaworthy, leading to more deaths overall.
Well-meaning policies can lead to real people dying.
0 -
Don't we have more admirals than ships?malcolmg said:
Bet we have more admirals than them though.HYUFD said:
As the threat of Islamic terrorism remains and China is still no ally of Australia and New Zealand neither nation can afford to ignore the Western AllianceDura_Ace said:
"just behind"HYUFD said:
Well to be fair in the pecking order of Western military and diplomatic power while the US leads we are just behind, helped by Commonwealth ties, though France under Macron is catching up fast
US Navy escorts:230
RN escorts: 17
Geography means we aren't that well integrated with the preeminent commonwealth military (Australia) so we rarely exercise with them. Most of the UK-Australian (and NZ to a lesser extent) officer exchange programs have been stopped as the exchangees had a habit doing a lateral transfers into the ADF and not coming back.0 -
Turkey is not considered part of the Western Alliance and does not have nuclear weapons or as many aircraft carriers and submarines as the UK and France. Turkey is also no fan of Assad so would have to get past Iran and Russia first if it wanted to take over Syria. Our role in Syria now is mainly to protect the Kurds, amongst the toughest fighters in the worldDavidL said:
Turkey’s army is about twice the size of the UK and France put together. In a conventional war I am not sure I would fancy our chances.HYUFD said:
We are still a UN Security Council, nuclear power with the strongest military outside the US of any western power besides France. Indeed as the US withdraws from Syria it is the UK and France who will keep a western presence there.DavidL said:
We are “just behind” the United States in the same way as Accrington Stanley are just behind Man City. We don’t have even 1/10th of their capability or reach and we are deluding ourselves to pretend otherwise.HYUFD said:
Well to be fair in the pecking order of Western military and diplomatic power while the US leads we are just behind, helped by Commonwealth ties, though France under Macron is catching up fastSouthamObserver said:
He has a Tory leadership contest to win.DavidL said:
221 since the start of November according to the BBC. Which is still a small number when some estimate that there may be 1m illegal immigrants in London alone.Theuniondivvie said:
There was a vox pop on the radio this am with some diddy saying 'they might be terrorists, they look like families but who knows?'SouthamObserver said:I sniff a Tory leadership contest ...
https://twitter.com/JFCrisp/status/1079135229653192706
Javid may be crap on all available evidence, but he's certainly attuned to the dog whistles de jour.
I quite like Javid but I thought that his decision not to deploy further ships in the Channel was pretty disgusting. He is basically saying I would rather people drown than us risk more coming on the back of an improved prospect of rescue. It is profoundly immoral.
As does the ridiculous Gavin Williamson.
https://twitter.com/spajw/status/1079349162540441600?s=21
The US leads and will always lead the Western Alliance but ourselves and France are the next biggest components of it0 -
David, we would struggle to beat a carpet nowadaysDavidL said:
Turkey’s army is about twice the size of the UK and France put together. In a conventional war I am not sure I would fancy our chances.HYUFD said:
We are still a UN Security Council, nuclear power with the strongest military outside the US of any western power besides France. Indeed as the US withdraws from Syria it is the UK and France who will keep a western presence there.DavidL said:
We are “just behind” the United States in the same way as Accrington Stanley are just behind Man City. We don’t have even 1/10th of their capability or reach and we are deluding ourselves to pretend otherwise.HYUFD said:
Well to be fair in the pecking order of Western military and diplomatic power while the US leads we are just behind, helped by Commonwealth ties, though France under Macron is catching up fastSouthamObserver said:
He has a Tory leadership contest to win.DavidL said:
221 since the start of November according to the BBC. Which is still a small number when some estimate that there may be 1m illegal immigrants in London alone.Theuniondivvie said:
There was a vox pop on the radio this am with some diddy saying 'they might be terrorists, they look like families but who knows?'SouthamObserver said:I sniff a Tory leadership contest ...
https://twitter.com/JFCrisp/status/1079135229653192706
Javid may be crap on all available evidence, but he's certainly attuned to the dog whistles de jour.
I quite like Javid but I thought that his decision not to deploy further ships in the Channel was pretty disgusting. He is basically saying I would rather people drown than us risk more coming on the back of an improved prospect of rescue. It is profoundly immoral.
As does the ridiculous Gavin Williamson.
https://twitter.com/spajw/status/1079349162540441600?s=21
The US leads and will always lead the Western Alliance but ourselves and France are the next biggest components of it0 -
We are allies of the US and a key component of the Western Alliancemalcolmg said:
US Navy escorts:230HYUFD said:
As the threat of Islamic terrorism remains and China is still no ally of Australia and New Zealand neither nation can afford to ignore the Western AllianceDura_Ace said:
"just behind"HYUFD said:
Well to be fair in the pecking order of Western military and diplomatic power while the US leads we are just behind, helped by Commonwealth ties, though France under Macron is catching up fast
US Navy escorts:230
RN escorts: 17
Geography means we aren't that well integrated with the preeminent commonwealth military (Australia) so we rarely exercise with them. Most of the UK-Australian (and NZ to a lesser extent) officer exchange programs have been stopped as the exchangees had a habit doing a lateral transfers into the ADF and not coming back.
RN escorts: 17
Bet we have more admirals than them though.0 -
That's surely because those we don't win, like Suez, we don't class as wars.HYUFD said:
Given we stayed out of Vietnam the UK has not actually lost a War since the US War of Independencemalcolmg said:
LOL, unable to stop a handful of Iranians , we are a joke of a country.HYUFD said:
We are still a UN Security Council, nuclear power with the strongest military outside the US of any western power besides France. Indeed as the US withdraws from Syria it is the UK and France who will keep a western presence there.DavidL said:
We are “just behind” the United States in the same way as Accrington Stanley are just behind Man City. We don’t have even 1/10th of their capability or reach and we are deluding ourselves to pretend otherwise.HYUFD said:
Well to be fair in the pecking order of Western military and diplomatic power while the US leads we are just behind, helped by Commonwealth ties, though France under Macron is catching up fastSouthamObserver said:
He has a Tory leadership contest to win.DavidL said:
221 since the start of November according to the BBC. Which is still a small number when some estimate that there may be 1m illegal immigrants in London alone.Theuniondivvie said:
There was a vox pop on the radio this am with some diddy saying 'they might be terrorists, they look like families but who knows?'SouthamObserver said:I sniff a Tory leadership contest ...
https://twitter.com/JFCrisp/status/1079135229653192706
Javid may be crap on all available evidence, but he's certainly attuned to the dog whistles de jour.
I quite like Javid but I thought that his decision not to deploy further ships in the Channel was pretty disgusting. He is basically saying I would rather people drown than us risk more coming on the back of an improved prospect of rescue. It is profoundly immoral.
As does the ridiculous Gavin Williamson.
https://twitter.com/spajw/status/1079349162540441600?s=21
The US leads and will always lead the Western Alliance but ourselves and France are the next biggest components of it0 -
Orcs1000 said:
I hate phrases like "some estimate". London has a population of approximately nine million people. That would mean that more than 10% of Londoners are illegal immigrants. That would mean that illegal immigrants outnumber legal non-EU immigrants in the capital. So, for every American or Canadian or Australian you meet, there are one and a half illegal immigrants from... errr... where exactly?DavidL said:
221 since the start of November according to the BBC. Which is still a small number when some estimate that there may be 1m illegal immigrants in London alone.Theuniondivvie said:
There was a vox pop on the radio this am with some diddy saying 'they might be terrorists, they look like families but who knows?'SouthamObserver said:I sniff a Tory leadership contest ...
https://twitter.com/JFCrisp/status/1079135229653192706
Javid may be crap on all available evidence, but he's certainly attuned to the dog whistles de jour.
Yet these illegal immigrants somehow manage to avoid using the health service in great numbers, or having babies, or being in any way detectable. If more than 10% of the London population was illegal, that would one in sex workers were too.
It would mean that it wouldn't just be Albanian car washers, but every restaurant would contain a number of illegals.
There are, I'm sure a great many illegal immigrants in London. But one million? That is, I suspect, an order of magnitude too high.
The health service doesn’t check status and doesn’t turn people away that needs treatment ( registration with a GP may be more problematic). IANAE in sex workers but I think that you would find a very high percentage were illegals. Large numbers of “self employed” delivery people are too. We tolerate a large and unpleasant underbelly of illegal employment which only ever seems to come to the surface when something goes wrong like those Chinese cockle pickers or rare prosecutions for modern slavery.
I don’t know how many illegal immigrants live in London but the rate at which London’s population has increased over the last decade is pretty dramatic and illegal immigrants have played a major part.0 -
Not in military terms, in economic terms maybe.Recidivist said:
That's true. But you are leaving out the other big factor that allows us to punch above our weight. Membership of the EU gives us clout as well.HYUFD said:
Well to be fair in the pecking order of Western military and diplomatic power while the US leads we are just behind, helped by Commonwealth ties, though France under Macron is catching up fastSouthamObserver said:
He has a Tory leadership contest to win.DavidL said:
221 since the start of November according to the BBC. Which is still a small number when some estimate that there may be 1m illegal immigrants in London alone.Theuniondivvie said:
There was a vox pop on the radio this am with some diddy saying 'they might be terrorists, they look like families but who knows?'SouthamObserver said:I sniff a Tory leadership contest ...
https://twitter.com/JFCrisp/status/1079135229653192706
Javid may be crap on all available evidence, but he's certainly attuned to the dog whistles de jour.
I quite like Javid but I thought that his decision not to deploy further ships in the Channel was pretty disgusting. He is basically saying I would rather people drown than us risk more coming on the back of an improved prospect of rescue. It is profoundly immoral.
As does the ridiculous Gavin Williamson.
https://twitter.com/spajw/status/1079349162540441600?s=21
It is NATO and UN Security Council membership that gives us military clout0 -
Stop letting facts cloud the argument Foxy!Foxy said:
Actually the EU intervention has been to support the Libyan coastguard to return migrants to Libya, and the EU land forces in the Sahel have significantly reduced the numbers arriving in North Africa. The numbers crossing the Med is now back to the figure from a decade ago.RoyalBlue said:
On the contrary, his is the only moral stance.DavidL said:
221 since the start of November according to the BBC. Which is still a small number when some estimate that there may be 1m illegal immigrants in London alone.Theuniondivvie said:
There was a vox pop on the radio this am with some diddy saying 'they might be terrorists, they look like families but who knows?'SouthamObserver said:I sniff a Tory leadership contest ...
https://twitter.com/JFCrisp/status/1079135229653192706
Javid may be crap on all available evidence, but he's certainly attuned to the dog whistles de jour.
I quite like Javid but I thought that his decision not to deploy further ships in the Channel was pretty disgusting. He is basically saying I would rather people drown than us risk more coming on the back of an improved prospect of rescue. It is profoundly immoral.
Compare and contrast Australia and the EU. The former does not let boats land, and tows them back out to sea. Consequently, migrant flows and drownings are at relatively low levels. The EU rescues migrants, which leads to vastly higher numbers attempting the trip in vessels that are not seaworthy, leading to more deaths overall.
Well-meaning policies can lead to real people dying.0 -
Suez we won militarily but could not sustain economically as the US would not support usBenpointer said:
That's surely because those we don't win, like Suez, we don't class as wars.HYUFD said:
Given we stayed out of Vietnam the UK has not actually lost a War since the US War of Independencemalcolmg said:
LOL, unable to stop a handful of Iranians , we are a joke of a country.HYUFD said:
We are still a UN Security Council, nuclear power with the strongest military outside the US of any western power besides France. Indeed as the US withdraws from Syria it is the UK and France who will keep a western presence there.DavidL said:
We are “just behind” the United States in the same way as Accrington Stanley are just behind Man City. We don’t have even 1/10th of their capability or reach and we are deluding ourselves to pretend otherwise.HYUFD said:
Well to be fair in the pecking order of Western military and diplomatic power while the US leads we are just behind, helped by Commonwealth ties, though France under Macron is catching up fastSouthamObserver said:
He has a Tory leadership contest to win.DavidL said:
221 since the start of November according to the BBC. Which is still a small number when some estimate that there may be 1m illegal immigrants in London alone.Theuniondivvie said:
There was a vox pop on the radio this am with some diddy saying 'they might be terrorists, they look like families but who knows?'SouthamObserver said:I sniff a Tory leadership contest ...
https://twitter.com/JFCrisp/status/1079135229653192706
Javid may be crap on all available evidence, but he's certainly attuned to the dog whistles de jour.
I quite like Javid but I thought that his decision not to deploy further ships in the Channel was pretty disgusting. He is basically saying I would rather people drown than us risk more coming on the back of an improved prospect of rescue. It is profoundly immoral.
As does the ridiculous Gavin Williamson.
https://twitter.com/spajw/status/1079349162540441600?s=21
The US leads and will always lead the Western Alliance but ourselves and France are the next biggest components of it0 -
Technicalities don't cut it, we have skedaddled out from plenty with tail between legs, just look at our recent debacles in middle east as an example.HYUFD said:
Given we stayed out of Vietnam the UK has not actually lost a War since the US War of Independencemalcolmg said:
LOL, unable to stop a handful of Iranians , we are a joke of a country.HYUFD said:
We are still a UN Security Council, nuclear power with the strongest military outside the US of any western power besides France. Indeed as the US withdraws from Syria it is the UK and France who will keep a western presence there.DavidL said:
We are “just behind” the United States in the same way as Accrington Stanley are just behind Man City. We don’t have even 1/10th of their capability or reach and we are deluding ourselves to pretend otherwise.HYUFD said:
Well to be fair in the pecking order of Western military and diplomatic power while the US leads we are just behind, helped by Commonwealth ties, though France under Macron is catching up fastSouthamObserver said:
He has a Tory leadership contest to win.DavidL said:
221 since the start of November according to the BBC. Which is still a small number when some estimate that there may be 1m illegal immigrants in London alone.Theuniondivvie said:
There was a vox pop on the radio this am with some diddy saying 'they might be terrorists, they look like families but who knows?'SouthamObserver said:I sniff a Tory leadership contest ...
https://twitter.com/JFCrisp/status/1079135229653192706
Javid may be crap on all available evidence, but he's certainly attuned to the dog whistles de jour.
I quite like Javid but I thought that his decision not to deploy further ships in the Channel was pretty disgusting. He is basically saying I would rather people drown than us risk more coming on the back of an improved prospect of rescue. It is profoundly immoral.
As does the ridiculous Gavin Williamson.
https://twitter.com/spajw/status/1079349162540441600?s=21
The US leads and will always lead the Western Alliance but ourselves and France are the next biggest components of it
Only reason we did not lose was because the USA joined in and saved our bacon on others as well.0 -
We have liberated Kuwait, got rid of Bin Laden, removed the Taliban and Gaddhafi and Saddam Hussein from power and largely defeated ISISmalcolmg said:
Technicalities don't cut it, we have skedaddled out from plenty with tail between legs, just look at our recent debacles in middle east as an example.HYUFD said:
Given we stayed out of Vietnam the UK has not actually lost a War since the US War of Independencemalcolmg said:
LOL, unable to stop a handful of Iranians , we are a joke of a country.HYUFD said:
We are still a UN Security Council, nuclear power with the strongest military outside the US of any western power besides France. Indeed as the US withdraws from Syria it is the UK and France who will keep a western presence there.DavidL said:
We are “just behind” the United States in the same way as Accrington Stanley are just behind Man City. We don’t have even 1/10th of their capability or reach and we are deluding ourselves to pretend otherwise.HYUFD said:
Well to be fair in the pecking order of Western military and diplomatic power while the US leads we are just behind, helped by Commonwealth ties, though France under Macron is catching up fastSouthamObserver said:
He has a Tory leadership contest to win.DavidL said:
221 since the start of November according to the BBC. Which is still a small number when some estimate that there may be 1m illegal immigrants in London alone.Theuniondivvie said:
There was a vox pop on the radio this am with some diddy saying 'they might be terrorists, they look like families but who knows?'SouthamObserver said:I sniff a Tory leadership contest ...
https://twitter.com/JFCrisp/status/1079135229653192706
Javid may be crap on all available evidence, but he's certainly attuned to the dog whistles de jour.
I quite like Javid but I thought that his decision not to deploy further ships in the Channel was pretty disgusting. He is basically saying I would rather people drown than us risk more coming on the back of an improved prospect of rescue. It is profoundly immoral.
As does the ridiculous Gavin Williamson.
https://twitter.com/spajw/status/1079349162540441600?s=21
The US leads and will always lead the Western Alliance but ourselves and France are the next biggest components of it0 -
I think it makes a difference. Remember how quickly we were able to get military supplies to Argentina from Europe embargoed during the Falklands conflict.HYUFD said:
Not in military terms, in economic terms maybe.Recidivist said:
That's true. But you are leaving out the other big factor that allows us to punch above our weight. Membership of the EU gives us clout as well.HYUFD said:
Well to be fair in the pecking order of Western military and diplomatic power while the US leads we are just behind, helped by Commonwealth ties, though France under Macron is catching up fastSouthamObserver said:
He has a Tory leadership contest to win.DavidL said:
221 since the start of November according to the BBC. Which is still a small number when some estimate that there may be 1m illegal immigrants in London alone.Theuniondivvie said:
There was a vox pop on the radio this am with some diddy saying 'they might be terrorists, they look like families but who knows?'SouthamObserver said:I sniff a Tory leadership contest ...
https://twitter.com/JFCrisp/status/1079135229653192706
Javid may be crap on all available evidence, but he's certainly attuned to the dog whistles de jour.
I quite like Javid but I thought that his decision not to deploy further ships in the Channel was pretty disgusting. He is basically saying I would rather people drown than us risk more coming on the back of an improved prospect of rescue. It is profoundly immoral.
As does the ridiculous Gavin Williamson.
https://twitter.com/spajw/status/1079349162540441600?s=21
It is NATO and UN Security Council membership that gives us military clout0 -
Well that's fair but you cannot really separate the two.HYUFD said:
Suez we won militarily but could not sustain economically as the US would not support usBenpointer said:
That's surely because those we don't win, like Suez, we don't class as wars.HYUFD said:
Given we stayed out of Vietnam the UK has not actually lost a War since the US War of Independencemalcolmg said:
LOL, unable to stop a handful of Iranians , we are a joke of a country.HYUFD said:
We are still a UN Security Council, nuclear power with the strongest military outside the US of any western power besides France. Indeed as the US withdraws from Syria it is the UK and France who will keep a western presence there.DavidL said:
We are “just behind” the United States in the same way as Accrington Stanley are just behind Man City. We don’t have even 1/10th of their capability or reach and we are deluding ourselves to pretend otherwise.HYUFD said:
Well to be fair in the pecking order of Western military and diplomatic power while the US leads we are just behind, helped by Commonwealth ties, though France under Macron is catching up fastSouthamObserver said:
He has a Tory leadership contest to win.DavidL said:
221 since the start of November according to the BBC. Which is still a small number when some estimate that there may be 1m illegal immigrants in London alone.Theuniondivvie said:
There was a vox pop on the radio this am with some diddy saying 'they might be terrorists, they look like families but who knows?'SouthamObserver said:I sniff a Tory leadership contest ...
https://twitter.com/JFCrisp/status/1079135229653192706
Javid may be crap on all available evidence, but he's certainly attuned to the dog whistles de jour.
I quite like Javid but I thought that his decision not to deploy further ships in the Channel was pretty disgusting. He is basically saying I would rather people drown than us risk more coming on the back of an improved prospect of rescue. It is profoundly immoral.
As does the ridiculous Gavin Williamson.
https://twitter.com/spajw/status/1079349162540441600?s=21
The US leads and will always lead the Western Alliance but ourselves and France are the next biggest components of it0 -
Yes and democratic India will be a key bulwark against Communist China and in containing extremists in PakistanSunil_Prasannan said:
I would have thought the pre-eminent Commonwealth military is India?Dura_Ace said:
"just behind"HYUFD said:
Well to be fair in the pecking order of Western military and diplomatic power while the US leads we are just behind, helped by Commonwealth ties, though France under Macron is catching up fast
US Navy escorts:230
RN escorts: 17
Geography means we aren't that well integrated with the preeminent commonwealth military (Australia) so we rarely exercise with them.0 -
You think we won in Korea? Or Iraq? Or Afghanistan? Or against the Soviets post WW1?HYUFD said:
Given we stayed out of Vietnam the UK has not actually lost a War since the US War of Independencemalcolmg said:
LOL, unable to stop a handful of Iranians , we are a joke of a country.HYUFD said:
We are still a UN Security Council, nuclear power with the strongest military outside the US of any western power besides France. Indeed as the US withdraws from Syria it is the UK and France who will keep a western presence there.DavidL said:
We are “just behind” the United States in the same way as Accrington Stanley are just behind Man City. We don’t have even 1/10th of their capability or reach and we are deluding ourselves to pretend otherwise.HYUFD said:
Well to be fair in the pecking order of Western military and diplomatic power while the US leads we are just behind, helped by Commonwealth ties, though France under Macron is catching up fastSouthamObserver said:
He has a Tory leadership contest to win.DavidL said:
221 since the start of November according to the BBC. Which is still a small number when some estimate that there may be 1m illegal immigrants in London alone.Theuniondivvie said:
There was a vox pop on the radio this am with some diddy saying 'they might be terrorists, they look like families but who knows?'SouthamObserver said:I sniff a Tory leadership contest ...
https://twitter.com/JFCrisp/status/1079135229653192706
Javid may be crap on all available evidence, but he's certainly attuned to the dog whistles de jour.
I quite like Javid but I thought that his decision not to deploy further ships in the Channel was pretty disgusting. He is basically saying I would rather people drown than us risk more coming on the back of an improved prospect of rescue. It is profoundly immoral.
As does the ridiculous Gavin Williamson.
https://twitter.com/spajw/status/1079349162540441600?s=21
The US leads and will always lead the Western Alliance but ourselves and France are the next biggest components of it0 -
Fake news, is Morris Dancer giving you lessons in history?HYUFD said:
Given we stayed out of Vietnam the UK has not actually lost a War since the US War of Independence
We've lost to Jewish intifada in Palestine in 1948.
We lost in Aden in the 1960s.
We lost the First Boer War.
We lost wars in Afghanistan in the 19th century.0 -
Dream on , we were on USA coat tails to try and give them legitimacy, a very very very junior role.HYUFD said:
We have liberated Kuwait, got rid of Bin Laden, removed the Taliban and Gaddhafi and Saddam Hussein from power and largely defeated ISISmalcolmg said:
Technicalities don't cut it, we have skedaddled out from plenty with tail between legs, just look at our recent debacles in middle east as an example.HYUFD said:
Given we stayed out of Vietnam the UK has not actually lost a War since the US War of Independencemalcolmg said:
LOL, unable to stop a handful of Iranians , we are a joke of a country.HYUFD said:
We are still a UN Security Council, nuclear power with the strongest military outside the US of any western power besides France. Indeed as the US withdraws from Syria it is the UK and France who will keep a western presence there.DavidL said:
We are “just behind” the United States in the same way as Accrington Stanley are just behind Man City. We don’t have even 1/10th of their capability or reach and we are deluding ourselves to pretend otherwise.HYUFD said:
Well to be fair in the pecking order of Western military and diplomatic power while the US leads we are just behind, helped by Commonwealth ties, though France under Macron is catching up fastSouthamObserver said:
He has a Tory leadership contest to win.DavidL said:
221 since the start of November according to the BBC. Which is still a small number when some estimate that there may be 1m illegal immigrants in London alone.Theuniondivvie said:
There was a vox pop on the radio this am with some diddy saying 'they might be terrorists, they look like families but who knows?'SouthamObserver said:I sniff a Tory leadership contest ...
https://twitter.com/JFCrisp/status/1079135229653192706
Javid may be crap on all available evidence, but he's certainly attuned to the dog whistles de jour.
I quite like Javid but I thought that his decision not to deploy further ships in the Channel was pretty disgusting. He is basically saying I would rather people drown than us risk more coming on the back of an improved prospect of rescue. It is profoundly immoral.
As does the ridiculous Gavin Williamson.
https://twitter.com/spajw/status/1079349162540441600?s=21
The US leads and will always lead the Western Alliance but ourselves and France are the next biggest components of it
0 -
Argentina got much of its Exocet missiles then from FranceRecidivist said:
I think it makes a difference. Remember how quickly we were able to get military supplies to Argentina from Europe embargoed during the Falklands conflict.HYUFD said:
Not in military terms, in economic terms maybe.Recidivist said:
That's true. But you are leaving out the other big factor that allows us to punch above our weight. Membership of the EU gives us clout as well.HYUFD said:
Well to be fair in the pecking order of Western military and diplomatic power while the US leads we are just behind, helped by Commonwealth ties, though France under Macron is catching up fastSouthamObserver said:
He has a Tory leadership contest to win.DavidL said:
221 since the start of November according to the BBC. Which is still a small number when some estimate that there may be 1m illegal immigrants in London alone.Theuniondivvie said:
There was a vox pop on the radio this am with some diddy saying 'they might be terrorists, they look like families but who knows?'SouthamObserver said:I sniff a Tory leadership contest ...
https://twitter.com/JFCrisp/status/1079135229653192706
Javid may be crap on all available evidence, but he's certainly attuned to the dog whistles de jour.
I quite like Javid but I thought that his decision not to deploy further ships in the Channel was pretty disgusting. He is basically saying I would rather people drown than us risk more coming on the back of an improved prospect of rescue. It is profoundly immoral.
As does the ridiculous Gavin Williamson.
https://twitter.com/spajw/status/1079349162540441600?s=21
It is NATO and UN Security Council membership that gives us military clout0 -
The NHS does check status routinely, and in Leicester we often refuse non-emergency treatment as a result. Considering the migrant population, very few illegals are unearthed.DavidL said:
Orcs1000 said:
I hate phrases like "some estimate". London has a population of approximately nine million people. That would mean that more than 10% of Londoners are illegal immigrants. That would mean that illegal immigrants outnumber legal non-EU immigrants in the capital. So, for every American or Canadian or Australian you meet, there are one and a half illegal immigrants from... errr... where exactly?DavidL said:
221 since the start of November according to the BBC. Which is still a small number when some estimate that there may be 1m illegal immigrants in London alone.Theuniondivvie said:
There was a vox pop on the radio this am with some diddy saying 'they might be terrorists, they look like families but who knows?'SouthamObserver said:I sniff a Tory leadership contest ...
https://twitter.com/JFCrisp/status/1079135229653192706
Javid may be crap on all available evidence, but he's certainly attuned to the dog whistles de jour.
Yet these illegal immigrants somehow manage to avoid using the health service in great numbers, or having babies, or being in any way detectable. If more than 10% of the London population was illegal, that would one in sex workers were too.
It would mean that it wouldn't just be Albanian car washers, but every restaurant would contain a number of illegals.
There are, I'm sure a great many illegal immigrants in London. But one million? That is, I suspect, an order of magnitude too high.
The health service doesn’t check status and doesn’t turn people away that needs treatment ( registration with a GP may be more problematic). IANAE in sex workers but I think that you would find a very high percentage were illegals. Large numbers of “self employed” delivery people are too. We tolerate a large and unpleasant underbelly of illegal employment which only ever seems to come to the surface when something goes wrong like those Chinese cockle pickers or rare prosecutions for modern slavery.
I don’t know how many illegal immigrants live in London but the rate at which London’s population has increased over the last decade is pretty dramatic and illegal immigrants have played a major part.0 -
South Korea is still non Communist and free, Iraq is free of Saddam Hussein, Afghanistan is free from the Taliban in power and the Soviets lost the Cold WarDavidL said:
You think we won in Korea? Or Iraq? Or Afghanistan? Or against the Soviets post WW1?HYUFD said:
Given we stayed out of Vietnam the UK has not actually lost a War since the US War of Independencemalcolmg said:
LOL, unable to stop a handful of Iranians , we are a joke of a country.HYUFD said:
We are still a UN Security Council, nuclear power with the strongest military outside the US of any western power besides France. Indeed as the US withdraws from Syria it is the UK and France who will keep a western presence there.DavidL said:
We are “just behind” the United States in the same way as Accrington Stanley are just behind Man City. We don’t have even 1/10th of their capability or reach and we are deluding ourselves to pretend otherwise.HYUFD said:
Well to be fair in the pecking order of Western military and diplomatic power while the US leads we are just behind, helped by Commonwealth ties, though France under Macron is catching up fastSouthamObserver said:
He has a Tory leadership contest to win.DavidL said:
221 since the start of November according to the BBC. Which is still a small number when some estimate that there may be 1m illegal immigrants in London alone.Theuniondivvie said:
There was a vox pop on the radio this am with some diddy saying 'they might be terrorists, they look like families but who knows?'SouthamObserver said:I sniff a Tory leadership contest ...
https://twitter.com/JFCrisp/status/1079135229653192706
Javid may be crap on all available evidence, but he's certainly attuned to the dog whistles de jour.
I quite like Javid but I thought that his decision not to deploy further ships in the Channel was pretty disgusting. He is basically saying I would rather people drown than us risk more coming on the back of an improved prospect of rescue. It is profoundly immoral.
As does the ridiculous Gavin Williamson.
https://twitter.com/spajw/status/1079349162540441600?s=21
The US leads and will always lead the Western Alliance but ourselves and France are the next biggest components of it0 -
In that case it’s good they saw the light. Better to do the right thing eventually than not at all.Foxy said:
Actually the EU intervention has been to support the Libyan coastguard to return migrants to Libya, and the EU land forces in the Sahel have significantly reduced the numbers arriving in North Africa. The numbers crossing the Med is now back to the figure from a decade ago.RoyalBlue said:
On the contrary, his is the only moral stance.DavidL said:
221 since the start of November according to the BBC. Which is still a small number when some estimate that there may be 1m illegal immigrants in London alone.Theuniondivvie said:
There was a vox pop on the radio this am with some diddy saying 'they might be terrorists, they look like families but who knows?'SouthamObserver said:I sniff a Tory leadership contest ...
https://twitter.com/JFCrisp/status/1079135229653192706
Javid may be crap on all available evidence, but he's certainly attuned to the dog whistles de jour.
I quite like Javid but I thought that his decision not to deploy further ships in the Channel was pretty disgusting. He is basically saying I would rather people drown than us risk more coming on the back of an improved prospect of rescue. It is profoundly immoral.
Compare and contrast Australia and the EU. The former does not let boats land, and tows them back out to sea. Consequently, migrant flows and drownings are at relatively low levels. The EU rescues migrants, which leads to vastly higher numbers attempting the trip in vessels that are not seaworthy, leading to more deaths overall.
Well-meaning policies can lead to real people dying.0 -
Wouldn't work for toffee. Firstly, because any upcoming election this year will be called as a 'Brexit election' - called to decide the form it takes and little else. Secondly, because a significant number of their MPs would demand clarity or effectively go freelance. Third, because a significant section of the party's voter-base deeply care about the issue and want clarity on it. They might not desert the party as would have other concerns - but it's absurd to think Labour could get away with not engaging with it. They'd at least have to neutralise the issue with something like a People's Vote or risk being torn apart on it.justin124 said:Were a General Election to come about , Labour would simply decline to engage on Brexit to any significant extent. They would seek to change the subject - as happened in both 2017 and February 1974 - by raising other issues to which voters can much more readily relate.The chances of managing that over a six week campaign period seem good to me. People wish to move on!
0 -
The Jewish intifada was not really a War but an anti terrorism exercise and it was us who set the original Israel Palestine boundaries.TheScreamingEagles said:
Fake news, is Morris Dancer giving you lessons in history?HYUFD said:
Given we stayed out of Vietnam the UK has not actually lost a War since the US War of Independence
We've lost to Jewish intifada in Palestine in 1948.
We lost in Aden in the 1960s.
We lost the First Boer War.
We lost wars in Afghanistan in the 19th century.
Wilson was going to withdraw from and decolonise Aden anyway.
We won the Boer War overall.
We were in Afghanistan to keep Russia out and threatening India in which we largely succeeded0 -
So we still won thenmalcolmg said:
Dream on , we were on USA coat tails to try and give them legitimacy, a very very very junior role.HYUFD said:
We have liberated Kuwait, got rid of Bin Laden, removed the Taliban and Gaddhafi and Saddam Hussein from power and largely defeated ISISmalcolmg said:
Technicalities don't cut it, we have skedaddled out from plenty with tail between legs, just look at our recent debacles in middle east as an example.HYUFD said:
Given we stayed out of Vietnam the UK has not actually lost a War since the US War of Independencemalcolmg said:
LOL, unable to stop a handful of Iranians , we are a joke of a country.HYUFD said:
We are still a UN Security Council, nuclear power with the strongest military outside the US of any western power besides France. Indeed as the US withdraws from Syria it is the UK and France who will keep a western presence there.DavidL said:
We are “just behind” the United States in the same way as Accrington Stanley are just behind Man City. We don’t have even 1/10th of their capability or reach and we are deluding ourselves to pretend otherwise.HYUFD said:
Well to be fair in the pecking order of Western military and diplomatic power while the US leads we are just behind, helped by Commonwealth ties, though France under Macron is catching up fastSouthamObserver said:
He has a Tory leadership contest to win.DavidL said:
221 since the start of November according to the BBC. Which is still a small number when some estimate that there may be 1m illegal immigrants in London alone.Theuniondivvie said:
There was a vox pop on the radio this am with some diddy saying 'they might be terrorists, they look like families but who knows?'SouthamObserver said:I sniff a Tory leadership contest ...
https://twitter.com/JFCrisp/status/1079135229653192706
Javid may be crap on all available evidence, but he's certainly attuned to the dog whistles de jour.
I quite like Javid but I thought that his decision not to deploy further ships in the Channel was pretty disgusting. He is basically saying I would rather people drown than us risk more coming on the back of an improved prospect of rescue. It is profoundly immoral.
As does the ridiculous Gavin Williamson.
https://twitter.com/spajw/status/1079349162540441600?s=21
The US leads and will always lead the Western Alliance but ourselves and France are the next biggest components of it0 -
I - umm - meant one-in-six workers!DavidL said:
Orcs1000 said:
I hate phrases like "some estimate". London has a population of approximately nine million people. That would mean that more than 10% of Londoners are illegal immigrants. That would mean that illegal immigrants outnumber legal non-EU immigrants in the capital. So, for every American or Canadian or Australian you meet, there are one and a half illegal immigrants from... errr... where exactly?DavidL said:221 since the start of November according to the BBC. Which is still a small number when some estimate that there may be 1m illegal immigrants in London alone.
Yet these illegal immigrants somehow manage to avoid using the health service in great numbers, or having babies, or being in any way detectable. If more than 10% of the London population was illegal, that would one in sex workers were too.
It would mean that it wouldn't just be Albanian car washers, but every restaurant would contain a number of illegals.
There are, I'm sure a great many illegal immigrants in London. But one million? That is, I suspect, an order of magnitude too high.
The health service doesn’t check status and doesn’t turn people away that needs treatment ( registration with a GP may be more problematic). IANAE in sex workers but I think that you would find a very high percentage were illegals. Large numbers of “self employed” delivery people are too. We tolerate a large and unpleasant underbelly of illegal employment which only ever seems to come to the surface when something goes wrong like those Chinese cockle pickers or rare prosecutions for modern slavery.
I don’t know how many illegal immigrants live in London but the rate at which London’s population has increased over the last decade is pretty dramatic and illegal immigrants have played a major part.
One million is simply not a plausible number. There simply aren't that many casual jobs you can get without paperwork. (And don't forget, you need to get paid in cash, as you can't easily get a bank account without documentation. And of course, there will be people with decently forged ID. But one million?)
In the old days, illegal immigrants could probably work as minicab drivers, recieving cash and simply driving an uninsured vehicle. But these days, they'd need to register with Uber and Lyft and get a proper commercial driving license, and have a bank account. As cash becomes less and less common, it becomes harder and harder to work out the system.
0 -
And all under deep cover, thanks to the American Accent School at SandhurstHYUFD said:
We have liberated Kuwait, got rid of Bin Laden, removed the Taliban and Gaddhafi and Saddam Hussein from power and largely defeated ISIS0 -
There are two options from Scotland: from Kintyre and Galloway. There are other options further south, which, despite being longer, might be more economical as they take people where they really want to go (i.e. England and then Europe).Andrew said:
It'd be from Galloway if they ever did it. Apparently something like £20bn, including dealing with the old WW2 explosives dump :-)JosiasJessop said:
That's quite an incredible comment. The cost and complexities of a fixed link between NI and mainland Scotland are fantastic, and would make the Channel Tunnel look easy. The economics of it are p*ss poor as well, especially as you'd have to build the link from Kintyre to the Central Belt.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Isles_fixed_sea_link_connections#North_Channel_(Kintyre)_route0 -
Cough cough first Boer War cough cough.HYUFD said:
Given we stayed out of Vietnam the UK has not actually lost a War since the US War of Independencemalcolmg said:
LOL, unable to stop a handful of Iranians , we are a joke of a country.HYUFD said:
We are still a UN Security Council, nuclear power with the strongest military outside the US of any western power besides France. Indeed as the US withdraws from Syria it is the UK and France who will keep a western presence there.DavidL said:
We are “just behind” the United States in the same way as Accrington Stanley are just behind Man City. We don’t have even 1/10th of their capability or reach and we are deluding ourselves to pretend otherwise.HYUFD said:
Well to be fair in the pecking order of Western military and diplomatic power while the US leads we are just behind, helped by Commonwealth ties, though France under Macron is catching up fastSouthamObserver said:
He has a Tory leadership contest to win.DavidL said:
221 since the start of November according to the BBC. Which is still a small number when some estimate that there may be 1m illegal immigrants in London alone.Theuniondivvie said:
There was a vox pop on the radio this am with some diddy saying 'they might be terrorists, they look like families but who knows?'SouthamObserver said:I sniff a Tory leadership contest ...
https://twitter.com/JFCrisp/status/1079135229653192706
Javid may be crap on all available evidence, but he's certainly attuned to the dog whistles de jour.
I quite like Javid but I thought that his decision not to deploy further ships in the Channel was pretty disgusting. He is basically saying I would rather people drown than us risk more coming on the back of an improved prospect of rescue. It is profoundly immoral.
As does the ridiculous Gavin Williamson.
https://twitter.com/spajw/status/1079349162540441600?s=21
The US leads and will always lead the Western Alliance but ourselves and France are the next biggest components of it0 -
The war of 1812 too.TheScreamingEagles said:
Fake news, is Morris Dancer giving you lessons in history?HYUFD said:
Given we stayed out of Vietnam the UK has not actually lost a War since the US War of Independence
We've lost to Jewish intifada in Palestine in 1948.
We lost in Aden in the 1960s.
We lost the First Boer War.
We lost wars in Afghanistan in the 19th century.
HYFUD seems to believe that declaring an end then buggering off, ala USA in Vietnam really is a victory.0 -
The war of 1812 was a score draw with each side scoring own goals.Foxy said:
The war of 1812 too.TheScreamingEagles said:
Fake news, is Morris Dancer giving you lessons in history?HYUFD said:
Given we stayed out of Vietnam the UK has not actually lost a War since the US War of Independence
We've lost to Jewish intifada in Palestine in 1948.
We lost in Aden in the 1960s.
We lost the First Boer War.
We lost wars in Afghanistan in the 19th century.
HYFUD seems to believe that declaring an end then buggering off, ala USA in Vietnam really is a victory.0 -
This is HYUFD.Foxy said:
The war of 1812 too.TheScreamingEagles said:
Fake news, is Morris Dancer giving you lessons in history?HYUFD said:
Given we stayed out of Vietnam the UK has not actually lost a War since the US War of Independence
We've lost to Jewish intifada in Palestine in 1948.
We lost in Aden in the 1960s.
We lost the First Boer War.
We lost wars in Afghanistan in the 19th century.
HYFUD seems to believe that declaring an end then buggering off, ala USA in Vietnam really is a victory.
0 -
Indeed we defeated the US invasion of Canada having burnt down the White House in the processAlastairMeeks said:
The war of 1812 was a score draw with each side scoring own goals.Foxy said:
The war of 1812 too.TheScreamingEagles said:
Fake news, is Morris Dancer giving you lessons in history?HYUFD said:
Given we stayed out of Vietnam the UK has not actually lost a War since the US War of Independence
We've lost to Jewish intifada in Palestine in 1948.
We lost in Aden in the 1960s.
We lost the First Boer War.
We lost wars in Afghanistan in the 19th century.
HYFUD seems to believe that declaring an end then buggering off, ala USA in Vietnam really is a victory.0 -
Fair enough. I think that's right.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Kinabalu, I think that's recognition of the immense difficulty of May's task (but not recognition of her, nevertheless, buggering it up tremendously).
But when listening to some of the vox pops praise from the general public, I did get a strong sense that her being a woman was a factor. 'Plucky Gal', was kind of the flavour.
Which is ok, I suppose. Nothing to get het up about. Not compared to all the things to get het up about.0 -
Vietnam is all Communist now after South Vietnam fell, so that was a US defeatFoxy said:
The war of 1812 too.TheScreamingEagles said:
Fake news, is Morris Dancer giving you lessons in history?HYUFD said:
Given we stayed out of Vietnam the UK has not actually lost a War since the US War of Independence
We've lost to Jewish intifada in Palestine in 1948.
We lost in Aden in the 1960s.
We lost the First Boer War.
We lost wars in Afghanistan in the 19th century.
HYFUD seems to believe that declaring an end then buggering off, ala USA in Vietnam really is a victory.0 -
We won the Boer Wars overallviewcode said:
Cough cough first Boer War cough cough.HYUFD said:
Given we stayed out of Vietnam the UK has not actually lost a War since the US War of Independencemalcolmg said:
LOL, unable to stop a handful of Iranians , we are a joke of a country.HYUFD said:
We are still a UN Security Council, nuclear power with the strongest military outside the US of any western power besides France. Indeed as the US withdraws from Syria it is the UK and France who will keep a western presence there.DavidL said:
We are “just behind” the United States in the same way as Accrington Stanley are just behind Man City. We don’t have even 1/10th of their capability or reach and we are deluding ourselves to pretend otherwise.HYUFD said:
Well to be fair in the pecking order of Western military and diplomatic power while the US leads we are just behind, helped by Commonwealth ties, though France under Macron is catching up fastSouthamObserver said:
He has a Tory leadership contest to win.DavidL said:
221 since the start of November according to the BBC. Which is still a small number when some estimate that there may be 1m illegal immigrants in London alone.Theuniondivvie said:
There was a vox pop on the radio this am with some diddy saying 'they might be terrorists, they look like families but who knows?'SouthamObserver said:I sniff a Tory leadership contest ...
https://twitter.com/JFCrisp/status/1079135229653192706
Javid may be crap on all available evidence, but he's certainly attuned to the dog whistles de jour.
I quite like Javid but I thought that his decision not to deploy further ships in the Channel was pretty disgusting. He is basically saying I would rather people drown than us risk more coming on the back of an improved prospect of rescue. It is profoundly immoral.
As does the ridiculous Gavin Williamson.
https://twitter.com/spajw/status/1079349162540441600?s=21
The US leads and will always lead the Western Alliance but ourselves and France are the next biggest components of it0 -
Fair point, but the first one was lost.HYUFD said:
We won the Boer Wars overallviewcode said:
Cough cough first Boer War cough cough.HYUFD said:
Given we stayed out of Vietnam the UK has not actually lost a War since the US War of Independencemalcolmg said:
LOL, unable to stop a handful of Iranians , we are a joke of a country.HYUFD said:
We are still a UN Security Council, nuclear power with the strongest military outside the US of any western power besides France. Indeed as the US withdraws from Syria it is the UK and France who will keep a western presence there.DavidL said:
We are “just behind” the United States in the same way as Accrington Stanley are just behind Man City. We don’t have even 1/10th of their capability or reach and we are deluding ourselves to pretend otherwise.HYUFD said:
Well to be fair in the pecking order of Western military and diplomatic power while the US leads we are just behind, helped by Commonwealth ties, though France under Macron is catching up fastSouthamObserver said:
He has a Tory leadership contest to win.DavidL said:
221 since the start of November according to the BBC. Which is still a small number when some estimate that there may be 1m illegal immigrants in London alone.Theuniondivvie said:
There was a vox pop on the radio this am with some diddy saying 'they might be terrorists, they look like families but who knows?'SouthamObserver said:I sniff a Tory leadership contest ...
https://twitter.com/JFCrisp/status/1079135229653192706
Javid may be crap on all available evidence, but he's certainly attuned to the dog whistles de jour.
I quite like Javid but I thought that his decision not to deploy further ships in the Channel was pretty disgusting. He is basically saying I would rather people drown than us risk more coming on the back of an improved prospect of rescue. It is profoundly immoral.
As does the ridiculous Gavin Williamson.
https://twitter.com/spajw/status/1079349162540441600?s=21
The US leads and will always lead the Western Alliance but ourselves and France are the next biggest components of it0 -
Ancient history isn't my strong point but didn't the Arabs lose the 1948 War?TheScreamingEagles said:
Fake news, is Morris Dancer giving you lessons in history?HYUFD said:
Given we stayed out of Vietnam the UK has not actually lost a War since the US War of Independence
We've lost to Jewish intifada in Palestine in 1948.0 -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_insurgency_in_Mandatory_PalestineSunil_Prasannan said:
Ancient history isn't my strong point but didn't the Arabs lose the 1948 War?TheScreamingEagles said:
Fake news, is Morris Dancer giving you lessons in history?HYUFD said:
Given we stayed out of Vietnam the UK has not actually lost a War since the US War of Independence
We've lost to Jewish intifada in Palestine in 1948.0 -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab–Israeli_WarTheScreamingEagles said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_insurgency_in_Mandatory_PalestineSunil_Prasannan said:
Ancient history isn't my strong point but didn't the Arabs lose the 1948 War?TheScreamingEagles said:
Fake news, is Morris Dancer giving you lessons in history?HYUFD said:
Given we stayed out of Vietnam the UK has not actually lost a War since the US War of Independence
We've lost to Jewish intifada in Palestine in 1948.0 -
#OhgodpleaseletsnotdothisagainHYUFD said:
Argentina got much of its Exocet missiles then from FranceRecidivist said:
I think it makes a difference. Remember how quickly we were able to get military supplies to Argentina from Europe embargoed during the Falklands conflict.HYUFD said:
Not in military terms, in economic terms maybe.Recidivist said:
That's true. But you are leaving out the other big factor that allows us to punch above our weight. Membership of the EU gives us clout as well.HYUFD said:
Well to be fair in the pecking order of Western military and diplomatic power while the US leads we are just behind, helped by Commonwealth ties, though France under Macron is catching up fastSouthamObserver said:
He has a Tory leadership contest to win.DavidL said:
221 since the start of November according to the BBC. Which is still a small number when some estimate that there may be 1m illegal immigrants in London alone.Theuniondivvie said:
There was a vox pop on the radio this am with some diddy saying 'they might be terrorists, they look like families but who knows?'SouthamObserver said:I sniff a Tory leadership contest ...
https://twitter.com/JFCrisp/status/1079135229653192706
Javid may be crap on all available evidence, but he's certainly attuned to the dog whistles de jour.
I quite like Javid but I thought that his decision not to deploy further ships in the Channel was pretty disgusting. He is basically saying I would rather people drown than us risk more coming on the back of an improved prospect of rescue. It is profoundly immoral.
As does the ridiculous Gavin Williamson.
https://twitter.com/spajw/status/1079349162540441600?s=21
It is NATO and UN Security Council membership that gives us military clout
...and most of its bombs from the Americans, and its planes from the Americans and French, and its ships from the Americans and the French and the British. Now somebody's going to bring up that bloke who worked for Dassault, then we mention Jean Kirkpatrick, I finish things off with that quote from Margaret Thatcher about Mitterrand, and then things quiet down until the next time. Aaargh!0 -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_42_destroyerviewcode said:
#OhgodpleaseletsnotdothisagainHYUFD said:
Argentina got much of its Exocet missiles then from FranceRecidivist said:
I think it makes a difference. Remember how quickly we were able to get military supplies to Argentina from Europe embargoed during the Falklands conflict.HYUFD said:
Not in military terms, in economic terms maybe.Recidivist said:
That's true. But you are leaving out the other big factor that allows us to punch above our weight. Membership of the EU gives us clout as well.HYUFD said:
Well to be fair in the pecking order of Western military and diplomatic power while the US leads we are just behind, helped by Commonwealth ties, though France under Macron is catching up fastSouthamObserver said:
He has a Tory leadership contest to win.DavidL said:
221 since the start of November according to the BBC. Which is still a small number when some estimate that there may be 1m illegal immigrants in London alone.Theuniondivvie said:
There was a vox pop on the radio this am with some diddy saying 'they might be terrorists, they look like families but who knows?'SouthamObserver said:I sniff a Tory leadership contest ...
https://twitter.com/JFCrisp/status/1079135229653192706
Javid may be crap on all available evidence, but he's certainly attuned to the dog whistles de jour.
I quite like Javid but I thought that his decision not to deploy further ships in the Channel was pretty disgusting. He is basically saying I would rather people drown than us risk more coming on the back of an improved prospect of rescue. It is profoundly immoral.
As does the ridiculous Gavin Williamson.
https://twitter.com/spajw/status/1079349162540441600?s=21
It is NATO and UN Security Council membership that gives us military clout
...and most of its bombs from the Americans, and its planes from the Americans and French, and its ships from the Americans and the French and the British. Now somebody's going to bring up that bloke who worked for Dassault, then we mention Jean Kirkpatrick, I finish things off with that quote from Margaret Thatcher about Mitterrand, and then things quiet down until the next time. Aaargh!0 -
Were you born dense or did you have to work at it?Sunil_Prasannan said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab–Israeli_WarTheScreamingEagles said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_insurgency_in_Mandatory_PalestineSunil_Prasannan said:
Ancient history isn't my strong point but didn't the Arabs lose the 1948 War?TheScreamingEagles said:
Fake news, is Morris Dancer giving you lessons in history?HYUFD said:
Given we stayed out of Vietnam the UK has not actually lost a War since the US War of Independence
We've lost to Jewish intifada in Palestine in 1948.
The Jewish intifada preceded the war you're talking about.
Since HYUFD's comment was about the UK not having lost any wars since 1783, that's the context.0 -
Those who call an election do not control the priorities of the voters. Theresa May found that out in 2017 - as did Ted Heath before her in February 1974. People on this Board - and the commentariat more widely - can be as obsessed as they wish re-Brexit, but - IMHO - that does not reflect the views of the public at large. Most people are sick to death of the subject , and are highly likely to respond in a positive way to any attempt to raise issues & problems which are far less technical and much more directly relevant to their daily lives. To repeat a point I have made before here - far too many commentators fail to distinguish between an issue being 'highly important ' - which Brexit clearly is - and 'salient' which I believe not to be the case electorally.MJW said:
Wouldn't work for toffee. Firstly, because any upcoming election this year will be called as a 'Brexit election' - called to decide the form it takes and little else. Secondly, because a significant number of their MPs would demand clarity or effectively go freelance. Third, because a significant section of the party's voter-base deeply care about the issue and want clarity on it. They might not desert the party as would have other concerns - but it's absurd to think Labour could get away with not engaging with it. They'd at least have to neutralise the issue with something like a People's Vote or risk being torn apart on it.justin124 said:Were a General Election to come about , Labour would simply decline to engage on Brexit to any significant extent. They would seek to change the subject - as happened in both 2017 and February 1974 - by raising other issues to which voters can much more readily relate.The chances of managing that over a six week campaign period seem good to me. People wish to move on!
0 -
A very interesting and prescient TED talk by Paddy Ashdown in 2011, pre Brexit and pre Trump, about the coming turbulence and the need for flexibility in choosing our allies.HYUFD said:
Yes and democratic India will be a key bulwark against Communist China and in containing extremists in PakistanSunil_Prasannan said:
I would have thought the pre-eminent Commonwealth military is India?Dura_Ace said:
"just behind"HYUFD said:
Well to be fair in the pecking order of Western military and diplomatic power while the US leads we are just behind, helped by Commonwealth ties, though France under Macron is catching up fast
US Navy escorts:230
RN escorts: 17
Geography means we aren't that well integrated with the preeminent commonwealth military (Australia) so we rarely exercise with them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuAj2F54bdo
0 -
The Mandate was supposed to expire by May 1948, so we were meant to pull out any way.TheScreamingEagles said:
Were you born dense or did you have to work at it?Sunil_Prasannan said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab–Israeli_WarTheScreamingEagles said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_insurgency_in_Mandatory_PalestineSunil_Prasannan said:
Ancient history isn't my strong point but didn't the Arabs lose the 1948 War?TheScreamingEagles said:
Fake news, is Morris Dancer giving you lessons in history?HYUFD said:
Given we stayed out of Vietnam the UK has not actually lost a War since the US War of Independence
We've lost to Jewish intifada in Palestine in 1948.
The Jewish intifada preceded the war you're talking about.
Since HYUFD's comment was about the UK not having lost any wars since 1783, that's the context.0 -
At least I'm not a Public School Tw@t like youTheScreamingEagles said:
Were you born dense or did you have to work at it?Sunil_Prasannan said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab–Israeli_WarTheScreamingEagles said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_insurgency_in_Mandatory_PalestineSunil_Prasannan said:
Ancient history isn't my strong point but didn't the Arabs lose the 1948 War?TheScreamingEagles said:
Fake news, is Morris Dancer giving you lessons in history?HYUFD said:
Given we stayed out of Vietnam the UK has not actually lost a War since the US War of Independence
We've lost to Jewish intifada in Palestine in 1948.
0 -
Spot on. The French did every single thing we could have asked of them as an ally short of actually sending their own forces to help - which of course we never asked for. The myth of French cowardice and duplicity is one I have absolutely no time for given they have been our allies since the 1850s.viewcode said:
#OhgodpleaseletsnotdothisagainHYUFD said:
Argentina got much of its Exocet missiles then from FranceRecidivist said:
I think it makes a difference. Remember how quickly we were able to get military supplies to Argentina from Europe embargoed during the Falklands conflict.HYUFD said:
Not in military terms, in economic terms maybe.Recidivist said:
That's true. But you are leaving out the other big factor that allows us to punch above our weight. Membership of the EU gives us clout as well.HYUFD said:
Well to be fair in the pecking order of Western military and diplomatic power while the US leads we are just behind, helped by Commonwealth ties, though France under Macron is catching up fastSouthamObserver said:
He has a Tory leadership contest to win.DavidL said:
221 since the start of November according to the BBC. Which is still a small number when some estimate that there may be 1m illegal immigrants in London alone.Theuniondivvie said:
There was a vox pop on the radio this am with some diddy saying 'they might be terrorists, they look like families but who knows?'SouthamObserver said:I sniff a Tory leadership contest ...
https://twitter.com/JFCrisp/status/1079135229653192706
Javid may be crap on all available evidence, but he's certainly attuned to the dog whistles de jour.
I quite like Javid but I thought that his decision not to deploy further ships in the Channel was pretty disgusting. He is basically saying I would rather people drown than us risk more coming on the back of an improved prospect of rescue. It is profoundly immoral.
As does the ridiculous Gavin Williamson.
https://twitter.com/spajw/status/1079349162540441600?s=21
It is NATO and UN Security Council membership that gives us military clout
...and most of its bombs from the Americans, and its planes from the Americans and French, and its ships from the Americans and the French and the British. Now somebody's going to bring up that bloke who worked for Dassault, then we mention Jean Kirkpatrick, I finish things off with that quote from Margaret Thatcher about Mitterrand, and then things quiet down until the next time. Aaargh!
And I really hope that sentence pisses off the Francophobe TSE.0 -
One could also say we lost the Russian Civil War since we sent troops to back the losing side.viewcode said:
Cough cough first Boer War cough cough.HYUFD said:
Given we stayed out of Vietnam the UK has not actually lost a War since the US War of Independencemalcolmg said:
LOL, unable to stop a handful of Iranians , we are a joke of a country.HYUFD said:
We are still a UN Security Council, nuclear power with the strongest military outside the US of any western power besides France. Indeed as the US withdraws from Syria it is the UK and France who will keep a western presence there.DavidL said:
We are “just behind” the United States in the same way as Accrington Stanley are just behind Man City. We don’t have even 1/10th of their capability or reach and we are deluding ourselves to pretend otherwise.HYUFD said:
Well to be fair in the pecking order of Western military and diplomatic power while the US leads we are just behind, helped by Commonwealth ties, though France under Macron is catching up fastSouthamObserver said:
He has a Tory leadership contest to win.DavidL said:
221 since the start of November according to the BBC. Which is still a small number when some estimate that there may be 1m illegal immigrants in London alone.Theuniondivvie said:
There was a vox pop on the radio this am with some diddy saying 'they might be terrorists, they look like families but who knows?'SouthamObserver said:I sniff a Tory leadership contest ...
https://twitter.com/JFCrisp/status/1079135229653192706
Javid may be crap on all available evidence, but he's certainly attuned to the dog whistles de jour.
I quite like Javid but I thought that his decision not to deploy further ships in the Channel was pretty disgusting. He is basically saying I would rather people drown than us risk more coming on the back of an improved prospect of rescue. It is profoundly immoral.
As does the ridiculous Gavin Williamson.
https://twitter.com/spajw/status/1079349162540441600?s=21
The US leads and will always lead the Western Alliance but ourselves and France are the next biggest components of it0 -
I'm trying to calculate what chance punters think there is of a no deal crash out by 29 March.
There two relevant markets. "UK to leave the EU by 29 March". 43% chance
https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.130766060
And "When will HOC pass Brexit bill" . 43% chance that it will be before 30 march.
https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.130766060
We will only leave on 29 March if either the deal passes or we crash out. So by implication, punters rate the chance of crashing out with no deal as precisely zero.0 -
+1 - that expresses it well. Of course the manifeso would need to have a Brexit policy - probably "seek to improve the detailed terms and then offer voters a choice between the package and remaining members" - but it's unlikely that the issue would monopolise public attention. The Heath example was instructive - the miners' strike clearly was affecting everyday life in a big way (unlike Brexit, so far), but trying to turn the election into an abstraction on the nature of power foundered - the answer to "Who Governs Britain?" was "Doesn't seem to be you, mate." If May sought a popular mandate for her style of government, she might have a similar difficulty.justin124 said:
Those who call an election do not control the priorities of the voters. Theresa May found that out in 2017 - as did Ted Heath before her in February 1974. People on this Board - and the commentariat more widely - can be as obsessed as they wish re-Brexit, but - IMHO - that does not reflect the views of the public at large. Most people are sick to death of the subject , and are highly likely to respond in a positive way to any attempt to raise issues & problems which are far less technical and much more directly relevant to their daily lives. To repeat a point I have made before here - far too many commentators fail to distinguish between an issue being 'highly important ' - which Brexit clearly is - and 'salient' which I believe not to be the case electorally.MJW said:
Wouldn't work for toffee. Firstly, because any upcoming election this year will be called as a 'Brexit election' - called to decide the form it takes and little else. Secondly, because a significant number of their MPs would demand clarity or effectively go freelance. Third, because a significant section of the party's voter-base deeply care about the issue and want clarity on it. They might not desert the party as would have other concerns - but it's absurd to think Labour could get away with not engaging with it. They'd at least have to neutralise the issue with something like a People's Vote or risk being torn apart on it.justin124 said:Were a General Election to come about , Labour would simply decline to engage on Brexit to any significant extent. They would seek to change the subject - as happened in both 2017 and February 1974 - by raising other issues to which voters can much more readily relate.The chances of managing that over a six week campaign period seem good to me. People wish to move on!
0 -
Personal use officer...
German police seize 850kg of fireworks from Hamburg home
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/30/german-police-seize-850kg-of-fireworks-from-hamburg-home0 -
There won’t be a VONC unless May loses the vote on Brexit deal. Getting that done first is the priority because her deal has nothing going for it. May would almost certainly resign following that. She’d have lost her flagship policy having lost her majority in the snap election she called. That would pave the way for a new Tory leader who could rebuild the relationship with the DUP and start to put daylight between the Tories and this disgraceful Labour Party.
It’s only if May hangs on having lost her deal that a Gov she heads up realistically faces the prospect of a VONC and in those circumstances they would deserve to lose. It would a Gov bankrupt of ideas and mandate. Neither the ERG nor the Remain extremists like Grieve, Greening, Morgan, Soubry etc could be relied upon and neither could the DUP.
Trying to hang on in those circumstances would be foolish. There would certainly be a backlash from the electorate even if the Tories managed to find some common ground and not split. May’s legacy would be a Corbyn Gov.0 -
Just watched "Leave No Trace" about a former US Vet with PTSD and his daughter living off the grid. The performance of the daughter by 18 year old Thomasin Mackenzie is the best performance I have seen this year.
Tehe film is rated at 100% on Rotten Tomatoes (along with Paddington 2).0 -
Makes a lot of sense. Also Brexit really is all about the extra red tape. If I were a Leaver I would want to rise above such pettiness.AlastairMeeks said:FPT @Charles forgive me, I did not mean to be rude. My answer would be very lengthy and I didn’t think anyone would be much interested.
In brief, I would start from identifying the system’s capabilities. The Home Office is famously poor at processing immigration applications and adding another 3 million would seem unwise in the extreme unless absolutely necessary.
On that basis I would have told EU residents that none needed to make a positive application now but that they should keep a documentary record of their pre-referendum residency in the UK, listing appropriate documents that the government would accept in future should the matter become important, and that they could apply now if they so wished.
Would there be some abuse? Of course. Would it matter? Not really. Britain is not going to be deporting EU citizens except in very unusual circumstances.0 -
Between 1940 and 1942 we fought several land battles against French government forces, notably in Syria and Madagascar. There were several thousand casualties.Richard_Tyndall said:
Spot on. The French did every single thing we could have asked of them as an ally short of actually sending their own forces to help - which of course we never asked for. The myth of French cowardice and duplicity is one I have absolutely no time for given they have been our allies since the 1850s.viewcode said:
#OhgodpleaseletsnotdothisagainHYUFD said:
Argentina got much of its Exocet missiles then from FranceRecidivist said:
I think it makes a difference. Remember how quickly we were able to get military supplies to Argentina from Europe embargoed during the Falklands conflict.HYUFD said:
Not in military terms, in economic terms maybe.Recidivist said:
That's true. B.HYUFD said:
Well to be fair in the pecking order of Western military and diplomatic power while the US leads we are just behind, helped by Commonwealth ties, though France under Macron is catching up fastSouthamObserver said:
He has a Tory leadership contest to win.DavidL said:
221 since the start of NovemberTheuniondivvie said:
There was a vox pop on the radio this am with some diddy saying 'they might be terrorists, they look like families but who knows?'SouthamObserver said:I sniff a Tory leadership contest ...
https://twitter.com/JFCrisp/status/1079135229653192706
Javid may be crap on all available evidence, but he's certainly attuned to the dog whistles de jour.
As does the ridiculous Gavin Williamson.
https://twitter.com/spajw/status/1079349162540441600?s=21
It is NATO and UN Security Council membership that gives us military clout
...and most of its bombs from the Americans, and its planes from the Americans and French, and its ships from the Americans and the French and the British. Now somebody's going to bring up that bloke who worked for Dassault, then we mention Jean Kirkpatrick, I finish things off with that quote from Margaret Thatcher about Mitterrand, and then things quiet down until the next time. Aaargh!
And I really hope that sentence pisses off the Francophobe TSE.
For example: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syria–Lebanon_Campaign0 -
I can believe this.justin124 said:Those who call an election do not control the priorities of the voters. Theresa May found that out in 2017 - as did Ted Heath before her in February 1974. People on this Board - and the commentariat more widely - can be as obsessed as they wish re-Brexit, but - IMHO - that does not reflect the views of the public at large. Most people are sick to death of the subject , and are highly likely to respond in a positive way to any attempt to raise issues & problems which are far less technical and much more directly relevant to their daily lives. To repeat a point I have made before here - far too many commentators fail to distinguish between an issue being 'highly important ' - which Brexit clearly is - and 'salient' which I believe not to be the case electorally.
Brexit for me is consuming and highly enjoyable, I will be sorry to see the back of it, but I am not an ordinary person. I bet that out there in the land of the living there is an appetite to have it over with and to move on. Once the deed is done on 29/03/19 it would not surprise me if the EU fades quite quickly as an issue in the UK.
Not completely of course, the FTA talks will rumble on for decades, but the passion will have gone. It sounds rather sad and melancholy, doesn't it, when put like that, sounds a bit like that 1980s tear-jerker by Chicago, massive that was, massive, but it isn't really. It isn't sad. It's ... well I don't know what it is, it just is.0 -
Your first sentence - lolAmpfieldAndy said:There won’t be a VONC unless May loses the vote on Brexit deal. Getting that done first is the priority because her deal has nothing going for it. May would almost certainly resign following that. She’d have lost her flagship policy having lost her majority in the snap election she called. That would pave the way for a new Tory leader who could rebuild the relationship with the DUP and start to put daylight between the Tories and this disgraceful Labour Party.
It’s only if May hangs on having lost her deal that a Gov she heads up realistically faces the prospect of a VONC and in those circumstances they would deserve to lose. It would a Gov bankrupt of ideas and mandate. Neither the ERG nor the Remain extremists like Grieve, Greening, Morgan, Soubry etc could be relied upon and neither could the DUP.
Trying to hang on in those circumstances would be foolish. There would certainly be a backlash from the electorate even if the Tories managed to find some common ground and not split. May’s legacy would be a Corbyn Gov.0 -
De Gaulle was the REAL French Government!Foxy said:
Between 1940 and 1942 we fought several land battles against French government forces, notably in Syria and Madagascar. There were several thousand casualties.Richard_Tyndall said:
Spot on. The French did every single thing we could have asked of them as an ally short of actually sending their own forces to help - which of course we never asked for. The myth of French cowardice and duplicity is one I have absolutely no time for given they have been our allies since the 1850s.viewcode said:
#OhgodpleaseletsnotdothisagainHYUFD said:
Argentina got much of its Exocet missiles then from FranceRecidivist said:
I think it makes a difference. Remember how quickly we were able to get military supplies to Argentina from Europe embargoed during the Falklands conflict.HYUFD said:
Not in military terms, in economic terms maybe.Recidivist said:
That's true. B.HYUFD said:
Well to be fair in the pecking order of Western military and diplomatic power while the US leads we are just behind, helped by Commonwealth ties, though France under Macron is catching up fastSouthamObserver said:
He has a Tory leadership contest to win.DavidL said:
221 since the start of NovemberTheuniondivvie said:
There was a vox pop on the radio this am with some diddy saying 'they might be terrorists, they look like families but who knows?'SouthamObserver said:I sniff a Tory leadership contest ...
https://twitter.com/JFCrisp/status/1079135229653192706
Javid may be crap on all available evidence, but he's certainly attuned to the dog whistles de jour.
As does the ridiculous Gavin Williamson.
https://twitter.com/spajw/status/1079349162540441600?s=21
It is NATO and UN Security Council membership that gives us military clout
...and most of its bombs from the Americans, and its planes from the Americans and French, and its ships from the Americans and the French and the British. Now somebody's going to bring up that bloke who worked for Dassault, then we mention Jean Kirkpatrick, I finish things off with that quote from Margaret Thatcher about Mitterrand, and then things quiet down until the next time. Aaargh!
And I really hope that sentence pisses off the Francophobe TSE.
For example: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syria–Lebanon_Campaign0 -
De Gaulle was, arguably a traitor. However, there's an old rhyme:Sunil_Prasannan said:
De Gaulle was the REAL French Government!Foxy said:
Between 1940 and 1942 we fought several land battles against French government forces, notably in Syria and Madagascar. There were several thousand casualties.Richard_Tyndall said:
Spot on. The French did every single thing we could have asked of them as an ally short of actually sending their own forces to help - which of course we never asked for. The myth of French cowardice and duplicity is one I have absolutely no time for given they have been our allies since the 1850s.viewcode said:
#OhgodpleaseletsnotdothisagainHYUFD said:
Argentina got much of its Exocet missiles then from FranceRecidivist said:
I think it makes a difference. Remember how quickly we were able to get military supplies to Argentina from Europe embargoed during the Falklands conflict.HYUFD said:
Not in military terms, in economic terms maybe.Recidivist said:
That's true. B.HYUFD said:
tSouthamObserver said:
He has a Tory leadership contest to win.DavidL said:
221 since the start of NovemberTheuniondivvie said:
There was a vox pop on the radio this am with some diddy saying 'they might be terrorists, they look like families but who knows?'SouthamObserver said:I sniff a Tory leadership contest ...
https://twitter.com/JFCrisp/status/1079135229653192706
Javid may be crap on all available evidence, but he's certainly attuned to the dog whistles de jour.
As does the ridiculous Gavin Williamson.
https://twitter.com/spajw/status/1079349162540441600?s=21
It is NATO and UN Security Council membership that gives us military clout
...and most of its bombs from the Americans, and its planes from the Americans and French, and its ships from the Americans and the French and the British. Now somebody's going to bring up that bloke who worked for Dassault, then we mention Jean Kirkpatrick, I finish things off with that quote from Margaret Thatcher about Mitterrand, and then things quiet down until the next time. Aaargh!
And I really hope that sentence pisses off the Francophobe TSE.
For example: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syria–Lebanon_Campaign
Treason doth never prosper
What's the reason?
If it do prosper, none dare call it treason!0 -
Britain recognised Free France as the legitimate government in the wake of Mers-el-Kebir in July 1940.OldKingCole said:
De Gaulle was, arguably a traitor. However, there's an old rhyme:Sunil_Prasannan said:
De Gaulle was the REAL French Government!Foxy said:
Between 1940 and 1942 we fought several land battles against French government forces, notably in Syria and Madagascar. There were several thousand casualties.Richard_Tyndall said:
Spot on. The French did every single thing we could have asked of them as an ally short of actually sending their own forces to help - which of course we never asked for. The myth of French cowardice and duplicity is one I have absolutely no time for given they have been our allies since the 1850s.viewcode said:
#OhgodpleaseletsnotdothisagainHYUFD said:
Argentina got much of its Exocet missiles then from FranceRecidivist said:
I think it makes a difference. Remember how quickly we were able to get military supplies to Argentina from Europe embargoed during the Falklands conflict.HYUFD said:
Not in military terms, in economic terms maybe.Recidivist said:
That's true. B.HYUFD said:
tSouthamObserver said:
He has a Tory leadership contest to win.DavidL said:
221 since the start of NovemberTheuniondivvie said:
There was a vox pop on the radio this am with some diddy saying 'they might be terrorists, they look like families but who knows?'SouthamObserver said:I sniff a Tory leadership contest ...
https://twitter.com/JFCrisp/status/1079135229653192706
Javid may be crap on all available evidence, but he's certainly attuned to the dog whistles de jour.
As does the ridiculous Gavin Williamson.
https://twitter.com/spajw/status/1079349162540441600?s=21
It is NATO and UN Security Council membership that gives us military clout
...and most of its bombs from the Americans, and its planes from the Americans and French, and its ships from the Americans and the French and the British. Now somebody's going to bring up that blokrgh!
And I really hope that sentence pisses off the Francophobe TSE.
For example: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syria–Lebanon_Campaign
Treason doth never prosper
What's the reason?
If it do prosper, none dare call it treason!0 -
Slander!AmpfieldAndy said:Neither the ERG nor the Remain extremists like Grieve, Greening, Morgan, Soubry etc could be relied upon and neither could the DUP.
Supports Brexit.0 -
Nicely put! I think there's a real danger for parties in the next election on any side of the debate being seen to be fighting the last war if they go on about Brexit. Building on it, reversing it, whatever, they'll all be vote-losers.kinabalu said:
Brexit for me is consuming and highly enjoyable, I will be sorry to see the back of it, but I am not an ordinary person. I bet that out there in the land of the living there is an appetite to have it over with and to move on. Once the deed is done on 29/03/19 it would not surprise me if the EU fades quite quickly as an issue in the UK.
Not completely of course, the FTA talks will rumble on for decades, but the passion will have gone. It sounds rather sad and melancholy, doesn't it, when put like that, sounds a bit like that 1980s tear-jerker by Chicago, massive that was, massive, but it isn't really. It isn't sad. It's ... well I don't know what it is, it just is.0 -
Yes, I have noticed that too. Interesting.Barnesian said:We will only leave on 29 March if either the deal passes or we crash out. So by implication, punters rate the chance of crashing out with no deal as precisely zero.
I rate it as unlikely but I would not go lower than 10%.0 -
Having a Pauline conversion to supporting May’s deal does not mean she supports Brexit. May’s deal doesn’t deliver Brexit. Morgan has been every bit as bad as Soubry, Grieve etc so her late conversion is probably for personal career advantage.kinabalu said:
Slander!AmpfieldAndy said:Neither the ERG nor the Remain extremists like Grieve, Greening, Morgan, Soubry etc could be relied upon and neither could the DUP.
Supports Brexit.0 -
They were not recognised as French Government forces by the British as we refused to recognise the Vichy Government.Foxy said:
Between 1940 and 1942 we fought several land battles against French government forces, notably in Syria and Madagascar. There were several thousand casualties.Richard_Tyndall said:
Spot on. The French did every single thing we could have asked of them as an ally short of actually sending their own forces to help - which of course we never asked for. The myth of French cowardice and duplicity is one I have absolutely no time for given they have been our allies since the 1850s.viewcode said:
#OhgodpleaseletsnotdothisagainHYUFD said:
Argentina got much of its Exocet missiles then from FranceRecidivist said:
I think it makes a difference. Remember how quickly we were able to get military supplies to Argentina from Europe embargoed during the Falklands conflict.HYUFD said:
Not in military terms, in economic terms maybe.Recidivist said:
That's true. B.HYUFD said:
Well to be fair in the pecking order of Western military and diplomatic power while the US leads we are just behind, helped by Commonwealth ties, though France under Macron is catching up fastSouthamObserver said:
He has a Tory leadership contest to win.DavidL said:
221 since the start of NovemberTheuniondivvie said:
There was a vox pop on the radio this am with some diddy saying 'they might be terrorists, they look like families but who knows?'SouthamObserver said:I sniff a Tory leadership contest ...
https://twitter.com/JFCrisp/status/1079135229653192706
Javid may be crap on all available evidence, but he's certainly attuned to the dog whistles de jour.
As does the ridiculous Gavin Williamson.
https://twitter.com/spajw/status/1079349162540441600?s=21
It is NATO and UN Security Council membership that gives us military clout
...and most of its bombs from the Americans, and its planes from the Americans and French, and its ships from the Americans and the French and the British. Now somebody's going to bring up that bloke who worked for Dassault, then we mention Jean Kirkpatrick, I finish things off with that quote from Margaret Thatcher about Mitterrand, and then things quiet down until the next time. Aaargh!
And I really hope that sentence pisses off the Francophobe TSE.
For example: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syria–Lebanon_Campaign0
This discussion has been closed.