politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Get ready for possibly the Xmas TV event of the year – May v C
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Nonsense. Just a few minutes on Google will establish that the crown of sunniest place is fought between places along the south coast from Eastbourne through IOW to the West Country.MarqueeMark said:
Tiree in the Outer Hebs has the most sunshine hours in the UK.IanB2 said:
This year, at least, both Ventnor and Eastbourne have been extremely sunny.HYUFD said:
That is a bit like saying the second warmest place in Siberia in winter, not much of a trophyIanB2 said:
What, the second sunniest place in the UK, after Ventnor?HYUFD said:
Winter in Eastbourne or winter in Gibraltar? Not much contestSandyRentool said:
The colonists can quite easily stay British by moving to Eastbourne. These last vestiges of Empire ought to be relinquished.HYUFD said:
Gibraltar voted 99% to stay British in 2002, that is not happening, though Spain may try and get some say over Gibraltar as Ireland has over Northern Ireland after the Good Friday AgreementScott_P said:0 -
Because , they both agree we should leave in March 2019.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Why not Corbyn. He is as divided as conservatives and he is the leader of the opposition who have a big say in thisYorkcity said:
In reality as it always has been , it is an internal conservative dog fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:As far as TM debating brexit with Corbyn is concerned I see it as a sensible idea and needs TM to issue the challenge through the media.
Corbyn supporters seem to think it could go onto the domestic agenda but the moderator would need to keep it focused.
TM is going full on public broadcast and meeting the public and this would just compliment it
May should debate with Jacob.
Put it on BBC 3 , so not to interrupt any one else.
A real debate would be with a leader who disagrees and wants to remain.0 -
You can pretty much guarantee anyone with an X in their twitter handle is an idiot - firstly for falling for Trump's bollocks about them being censored, and then keeping it there despite getting responses to said posts.HYUFD said:
The May as Chamberlain comparisons are already starting, Boris clearly thinks he is Churchill
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*cough*MarqueeMark said:
Tiree in the Outer Hebs has the most sunshine hours in the UK.IanB2 said:
This year, at least, both Ventnor and Eastbourne have been extremely sunny.HYUFD said:
That is a bit like saying the second warmest place in Siberia in winter, not much of a trophyIanB2 said:
What, the second sunniest place in the UK, after Ventnor?HYUFD said:
Winter in Eastbourne or winter in Gibraltar? Not much contestSandyRentool said:
The colonists can quite easily stay British by moving to Eastbourne. These last vestiges of Empire ought to be relinquished.HYUFD said:
Gibraltar voted 99% to stay British in 2002, that is not happening, though Spain may try and get some say over Gibraltar as Ireland has over Northern Ireland after the Good Friday AgreementScott_P said:
Inner.0 -
Back when, Corbyn avoided Brexit in PMQs . No longer. He doesn't win every time, but usually he does. It isn't particularly difficult for him.0
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Corbyn rides both horsesYorkcity said:
Because , they both agree we should leave in March 2019.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Why not Corbyn. He is as divided as conservatives and he is the leader of the opposition who have a big say in thisYorkcity said:
In reality as it always has been , it is an internal conservative dog fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:As far as TM debating brexit with Corbyn is concerned I see it as a sensible idea and needs TM to issue the challenge through the media.
Corbyn supporters seem to think it could go onto the domestic agenda but the moderator would need to keep it focused.
TM is going full on public broadcast and meeting the public and this would just compliment it
May should debate with Jacob.
Put it on BBC 3 , so not to interrupt any one else.
A real debate would be with a leader who disagrees and wants to remain.0 -
Precisely. Clegg just chuntered on about W G Grace and the Empire.TudorRose said:
Wasn't the point that Farage had a greater knowledge of how the EU doesn't benefit Britain?IanB2 said:
IF (a big one) the story is true, I reckon the Tories would be counting on Corbyn refusing. As you say, knowledge of the detail isn't the key to winning a public debate - just look how Clegg came unstuck against Farage despite his greater knowledge of how the EU actually benefits Britain.edmundintokyo said:On topic the optics of this sound like a horrible idea for TMay. Corbyn should bite her hand off. Corbyn can pick up on a few nice, easy-to-understand criticisms with some basis in truth. You can't defend against those with detailed knowledge of the minutiae. I wonder if the point is less to win the debate than to set up Corbyn as the opposition instead of her own party, to help put pressure on them to work with her against the enemy.
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Or he may turn out to have saved the country from May's perfidy.TudorRose said:
More to the point he has already said that his party will vote against the deal which may/will consign it to defeat. He should be held accountable for that decision on such an important issue for the country as a whole.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Why not Corbyn. He is as divided as conservatives and he is the leader of the opposition who have a big say in thisYorkcity said:
In reality as it always has been , it is an internal conservative dog fight.Big_G_NorthWales said:As far as TM debating brexit with Corbyn is concerned I see it as a sensible idea and needs TM to issue the challenge through the media.
Corbyn supporters seem to think it could go onto the domestic agenda but the moderator would need to keep it focused.
TM is going full on public broadcast and meeting the public and this would just compliment it
May should debate with Jacob.
Put it on BBC 3 , so not to interrupt any one else.0 -
Rewatching The Darkest Hour tonight. Where is the Attlee of our days?0
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FPT:
That was finally solved in 1920rottenborough said:
The Schleswig-Holstein question?matt said:
What would they be debating?rottenborough said:Difficult to think of two politicians who are more likely to say NO to this than Corbyn and May at the moment.
https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1066365345043308546
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schleswig_plebiscites,_19200 -
G
He reads questions scripted by others. He doesn’t, as far as I can tell, rework questions on the fly to reflect and take advantage of earlier answers.FF43 said:Back when, Corbyn avoided Brexit in PMQs . No longer. He doesn't win every time, but usually he does. It isn't particularly difficult for him.
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The key lesson for Gibraltar is that if you are lucky enough to be a goose laying golden eggs it's sensible to offer eggs generously to those that think the eggs belong to them and are in a position to kill you.0
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The stupid tube scene totally ruins it for me.DavidL said:Rewatching The Darkest Hour tonight. Where is the Attlee of our days?
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One reason that didn't work is that few people know who W G Grace was and were confused by the argument.Luckyguy1983 said:
Precisely. Clegg just chuntered on about W G Grace and the Empire.TudorRose said:
Wasn't the point that Farage had a greater knowledge of how the EU doesn't benefit Britain?IanB2 said:
IF (a big one) the story is true, I reckon the Tories would be counting on Corbyn refusing. As you say, knowledge of the detail isn't the key to winning a public debate - just look how Clegg came unstuck against Farage despite his greater knowledge of how the EU actually benefits Britain.edmundintokyo said:On topic the optics of this sound like a horrible idea for TMay. Corbyn should bite her hand off. Corbyn can pick up on a few nice, easy-to-understand criticisms with some basis in truth. You can't defend against those with detailed knowledge of the minutiae. I wonder if the point is less to win the debate than to set up Corbyn as the opposition instead of her own party, to help put pressure on them to work with her against the enemy.
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It was very schmaltzy for sure, otherwise excellentCasino_Royale said:
The stupid tube scene totally ruins it for me.DavidL said:Rewatching The Darkest Hour tonight. Where is the Attlee of our days?
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Jeremy Corbyn would probably win the debate and lose the politics as he showed his hand. He is doing much better not disclosing his views on Brexit with any clarity. But declining would also be embarrassing.
The idea is unusually good politics from Theresa May. Presumably it is someone else’s.0 -
Sounds amusing but I don't see the benefit to Corbyn. If more people generally were in favour of the deal, and particularly more within Labour, then perhaps he'd feel a bit of pressure for refusing to debate it in detail about what he doesn't like, but so many people don't like it I doubt people would mind if he doesn't bother. And in fairness he will have a list of key critical points without reading it, handily provided by Tory rebels and serving Cabinet members who leak to the press about their dissatisfaction. Knowing more of the detail is not a necessary tactic to win a debate.
Well it shouldn't be necessary since parliament is sovereign, but obviously it's because it would lose. It has very little chance of being supported in a public vote because it has been trashed by left and right as a pile of old crap. The only question mark is what it would be up against, and the implications if one of the options is not included.<El_Capitano said:Great news that she’s prepared to put her deal up to public scrutiny like this. Makes you wonder why she’s so frit of having a public vote on it...
I find this to be such a lazy attitude. Yes, the Tories are much more divided over Europe and they are the ones in power (for a few months more at least) and therefore have to accept the responsibility for how things develop. But Brexit is about everybody, what Labour do and think about it matters, particularly with the parliamentary arithmetic and the not inconsequential chance they may be in power soon, so that the Tories are bitterly divided over this and really should just split is not the sole takeaway that matters right now. These things should cross party lines more, frankly, and a focus on partisan issues is really having the wrong priorities.Yorkcity said:
In reality as it always has been , it is an internal conservative dog fight.
May should debate with Jacob.
Put it on BBC 3 , so not to interrupt any one else.
In terms of any potential debate, of course one will not happen, but it does in fact make more sense for May to debate Corbyn and not Rees Mogg, since she has already tried to get her party on board with her plans, unsuccessfully (no, it doesn't matter if a majority back it), and Labour are the ones with the power to see it passed. They won't, they see no need to, but since May is at least attempting to appear like she wants everybody on board with this plan, it makes total sense that the leader of the largest bloc of MPs who is refusing to back it, for perhaps good reasons but also including nakedly partisan reasons (that they want a GE), would appear to be a not unreasonable stance.
Yes it wouldn't work, but sometimes being willing to make the attempt to reach out and convince is worth doing, even if it is just to assure herself and everybody that she tried.0 -
It was total rubbish. Contextually.Casino_Royale said:
The stupid tube scene totally ruins it for me.DavidL said:Rewatching The Darkest Hour tonight. Where is the Attlee of our days?
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You come to deal to make it worth the other party keep your setup in place. It's the same for any small anomalous entity next to a much larger one. In my view the UK's commitment to Gibraltar should be limited to preventing any invasion or blockade of essential supplies. Then leave it up to Gibraltar to make the best accommodation it can with Spain. I don't see why we should maintain a tax haven that acts against Spain's interest or support the first minister of Gibraltar when he insults Spanish officials.RobD said:
And when they want more?FF43 said:The key lesson for Gibraltar is that if you are lucky enough to be a goose laying golden eggs it's sensible to offer eggs generously to those that think the eggs belong to them and are in a position to kill you.
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malcolmg said:
It was very schmaltzy for sure, otherwise excellentCasino_Royale said:
The stupid tube scene totally ruins it for me.DavidL said:Rewatching The Darkest Hour tonight. Where is the Attlee of our days?
One of the conditions of being a PB Tory is disliking the tube scene in Darkest Hour, and mentioning your dislike of it at every given opportunity on PB.Casino_Royale said:
The stupid tube scene totally ruins it for me.DavidL said:Rewatching The Darkest Hour tonight. Where is the Attlee of our days?
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Useful site for gambling companies, though!FF43 said:
You come to deal to make it worth the other party keep your setup in place. It's the same for any small anomalous entity next to a much larger one. In my view the UK's commitment to Gibraltar should be limited to preventing any invasion or blockade of essential supplies. Then leave it up to Gibraltar to make the best accommodation it can with Spain. I don't see why we should maintain a tax haven that acts against Spain's interest or support the first minister of Gibraltar when he insults Spanish officials.RobD said:
And when they want more?FF43 said:The key lesson for Gibraltar is that if you are lucky enough to be a goose laying golden eggs it's sensible to offer eggs generously to those that think the eggs belong to them and are in a position to kill you.
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Or the Darkie-est hour, as they think of it.Anazina said:malcolmg said:
It was very schmaltzy for sure, otherwise excellentCasino_Royale said:
The stupid tube scene totally ruins it for me.DavidL said:Rewatching The Darkest Hour tonight. Where is the Attlee of our days?
One of the conditions of being a PB Tory is disliking the tube scene in Darkest Hour, and mentioning your dislike of it at every given opportunity on PB.Casino_Royale said:
The stupid tube scene totally ruins it for me.DavidL said:Rewatching The Darkest Hour tonight. Where is the Attlee of our days?
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Is Brexit going to even still be around by the middle of December?0
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I don't get it, personally. It's a movie, there's going to be bits that are, lacking a better word, too movie like. It's not like I sat there, saw that scene, and just went 'this is nonsense'. But each to their own, I liked Overlord for crying out loud.Anazina said:malcolmg said:
It was very schmaltzy for sure, otherwise excellentCasino_Royale said:
The stupid tube scene totally ruins it for me.DavidL said:Rewatching The Darkest Hour tonight. Where is the Attlee of our days?
One of the conditions of being a PB Tory is disliking the tube scene in Darkest Hour, and mentioning your dislike of it at every given opportunity on PB.Casino_Royale said:
The stupid tube scene totally ruins it for me.DavidL said:Rewatching The Darkest Hour tonight. Where is the Attlee of our days?
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Yes, because even cancelling it, somehow, will take a few weeks at least! (I am sure you were entirely serious of course).Recidivist said:Is Brexit going to even still be around by the middle of December?
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He should say he'll be glad to debate her on the hustings in a General Election - name the day!AlastairMeeks said:Jeremy Corbyn would probably win the debate and lose the politics as he showed his hand. He is doing much better not disclosing his views on Brexit with any clarity. But declining would also be embarrassing.
The idea is unusually good politics from Theresa May. Presumably it is someone else’s.0 -
To which the obvious reply is that he softpedalled to remain, and he's doing the same now. As much ridicule from his own benches as the gov't's.NickPalmer said:
He should say he'll be glad to debate her on the hustings in a General Election - name the day!AlastairMeeks said:Jeremy Corbyn would probably win the debate and lose the politics as he showed his hand. He is doing much better not disclosing his views on Brexit with any clarity. But declining would also be embarrassing.
The idea is unusually good politics from Theresa May. Presumably it is someone else’s.0 -
He could say that. However, I don’t think most people want an election in the winter.NickPalmer said:
He should say he'll be glad to debate her on the hustings in a General Election - name the day!AlastairMeeks said:Jeremy Corbyn would probably win the debate and lose the politics as he showed his hand. He is doing much better not disclosing his views on Brexit with any clarity. But declining would also be embarrassing.
The idea is unusually good politics from Theresa May. Presumably it is someone else’s.
I think Jeremy’s double-digit IQ would be revealed in a 1-on-1 debate. I do hope May proposes it.0 -
As has already been pointed out, most of us thought that Clegg would easily handle Farage.RoyalBlue said:
He could say that. However, I don’t think most people want an election in the winter.NickPalmer said:
He should say he'll be glad to debate her on the hustings in a General Election - name the day!AlastairMeeks said:Jeremy Corbyn would probably win the debate and lose the politics as he showed his hand. He is doing much better not disclosing his views on Brexit with any clarity. But declining would also be embarrassing.
The idea is unusually good politics from Theresa May. Presumably it is someone else’s.
I think Jeremy’s double-digit IQ would be revealed in a 1-on-1 debate. I do hope May proposes it.0 -
Kle4
You need to keep up.
Everybody eligable had a vote in the referendum in 2016.
Now what everybody thinks does not matter.
As what should always happen is the governing party with its elected representatives ,make the appropriate decisions on trade and treaties.
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Well thanks for not being totally condescending.Yorkcity said:Kle4
You need to keep up.
Everybody eligable had a vote in the referendum in 2016.
Now what everybody thinks does not matter.
As what should always happen is the governing party with its elected representatives ,make the appropriate decisions on trade and treaties.0 -
Well, I don't think anyone on PB has ever accused me of being a Tory, and I didn't like the scene. It just 'wasn't Churchill", as I understood him.kle4 said:
I don't get it, personally. It's a movie, there's going to be bits that are, lacking a better word, too movie like. It's not like I sat there, saw that scene, and just went 'this is nonsense'. But each to their own, I liked Overlord for crying out loud.Anazina said:malcolmg said:
It was very schmaltzy for sure, otherwise excellentCasino_Royale said:
The stupid tube scene totally ruins it for me.DavidL said:Rewatching The Darkest Hour tonight. Where is the Attlee of our days?
One of the conditions of being a PB Tory is disliking the tube scene in Darkest Hour, and mentioning your dislike of it at every given opportunity on PB.Casino_Royale said:
The stupid tube scene totally ruins it for me.DavidL said:Rewatching The Darkest Hour tonight. Where is the Attlee of our days?
Nor were the 'honest working class, salt of the earth, Brits' in the train typical of what I recalled from the mid-40's.0 -
Clegg can't help dissembling and talking down to people so it shouldn't have been a surprise he came off second best. Even his use of language was patronising, for example referring to "something called the Lisbon treaty" as if he thought the audience shouldn't bother themselves with the details.Recidivist said:
As has already been pointed out, most of us thought that Clegg would easily handle Farage.RoyalBlue said:
He could say that. However, I don’t think most people want an election in the winter.NickPalmer said:
He should say he'll be glad to debate her on the hustings in a General Election - name the day!AlastairMeeks said:Jeremy Corbyn would probably win the debate and lose the politics as he showed his hand. He is doing much better not disclosing his views on Brexit with any clarity. But declining would also be embarrassing.
The idea is unusually good politics from Theresa May. Presumably it is someone else’s.
I think Jeremy’s double-digit IQ would be revealed in a 1-on-1 debate. I do hope May proposes it.0 -
One of the minor tragedies of the late 20th/early 21st Century is Charlie Kennedy's failure to come to terms with booze.williamglenn said:
Clegg can't help dissembling and talking down to people so it shouldn't have been a surprise he came off second best. Even his use of language was patronising, for example referring to "something called the Lisbon treaty" as if he thought the audience shouldn't bother themselves with the details.Recidivist said:
As has already been pointed out, most of us thought that Clegg would easily handle Farage.RoyalBlue said:
He could say that. However, I don’t think most people want an election in the winter.NickPalmer said:
He should say he'll be glad to debate her on the hustings in a General Election - name the day!AlastairMeeks said:Jeremy Corbyn would probably win the debate and lose the politics as he showed his hand. He is doing much better not disclosing his views on Brexit with any clarity. But declining would also be embarrassing.
The idea is unusually good politics from Theresa May. Presumably it is someone else’s.
I think Jeremy’s double-digit IQ would be revealed in a 1-on-1 debate. I do hope May proposes it.0 -
Well stop calling people lazy then.kle4 said:
Well thanks for not being totally condescending.Yorkcity said:Kle4
You need to keep up.
Everybody eligable had a vote in the referendum in 2016.
Now what everybody thinks does not matter.
As what should always happen is the governing party with its elected representatives ,make the appropriate decisions on trade and treaties.0 -
Avoid the biggest subject in politics today. With respect Nick you are being partisanNickPalmer said:
He should say he'll be glad to debate her on the hustings in a General Election - name the day!AlastairMeeks said:Jeremy Corbyn would probably win the debate and lose the politics as he showed his hand. He is doing much better not disclosing his views on Brexit with any clarity. But declining would also be embarrassing.
The idea is unusually good politics from Theresa May. Presumably it is someone else’s.0 -
2019 GE just above 6-4 on Betfair - 2019 is clear favourite but only a 40% chance.
Anyone surprised it's not a bit shorter - it does appear the Govt is heading for a complete impasse and whatever route it tries to go down it's going to be impossible to get anything through the Commons.0 -
The problem in that debate, and indeed nearly all others including this proposal, is that soundbites and pointscoring count more than patient nuanced fact based discussion.williamglenn said:
Clegg can't help dissembling and talking down to people so it shouldn't have been a surprise he came off second best. Even his use of language was patronising, for example referring to "something called the Lisbon treaty" as if he thought the audience shouldn't bother themselves with the details.Recidivist said:
As has already been pointed out, most of us thought that Clegg would easily handle Farage.RoyalBlue said:
He could say that. However, I don’t think most people want an election in the winter.NickPalmer said:
He should say he'll be glad to debate her on the hustings in a General Election - name the day!AlastairMeeks said:Jeremy Corbyn would probably win the debate and lose the politics as he showed his hand. He is doing much better not disclosing his views on Brexit with any clarity. But declining would also be embarrassing.
The idea is unusually good politics from Theresa May. Presumably it is someone else’s.
I think Jeremy’s double-digit IQ would be revealed in a 1-on-1 debate. I do hope May proposes it.
May will be like a rabbit in the headlights as Corbyn brings austerity into every answer. He would bury her, not with facts but with rhetoric.0 -
Which is why we will have a Canada style dealwilliamglenn said:
The agreement is ingenious in the sense that she can claim with technical accuracy that we will end free movement, even if free movement never actually ends. The EU have been clear that the four freedoms are still indivisible when it comes to the future relationship.TheWhiteRabbit said:May's responses on the WA have been technically accurate, which is much better than her opponents (on both sides of the house). Sure, her political nous sometimes leaves something to be desired, but still - she should go for it.
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It’s not much of an answer: the public have had ample voting opportunities recently. Or does the leader of the opposition need an election to get out of bed?NickPalmer said:
He should say he'll be glad to debate her on the hustings in a General Election - name the day!AlastairMeeks said:Jeremy Corbyn would probably win the debate and lose the politics as he showed his hand. He is doing much better not disclosing his views on Brexit with any clarity. But declining would also be embarrassing.
The idea is unusually good politics from Theresa May. Presumably it is someone else’s.0 -
What "Tube scene"?0
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With an Irish backstop border in the Irish Sea...Charles said:
Which is why we will have a Canada style dealwilliamglenn said:
The agreement is ingenious in the sense that she can claim with technical accuracy that we will end free movement, even if free movement never actually ends. The EU have been clear that the four freedoms are still indivisible when it comes to the future relationship.TheWhiteRabbit said:May's responses on the WA have been technically accurate, which is much better than her opponents (on both sides of the house). Sure, her political nous sometimes leaves something to be desired, but still - she should go for it.
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There's no time to implement a Canada style deal before the transition runs out. It points to a Norway style deal with some clever obfuscation of what it really means.Charles said:
Which is why we will have a Canada style dealwilliamglenn said:
The agreement is ingenious in the sense that she can claim with technical accuracy that we will end free movement, even if free movement never actually ends. The EU have been clear that the four freedoms are still indivisible when it comes to the future relationship.TheWhiteRabbit said:May's responses on the WA have been technically accurate, which is much better than her opponents (on both sides of the house). Sure, her political nous sometimes leaves something to be desired, but still - she should go for it.
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Charles means for the FP, so the risk is not a border in the Irish sea but on the island itself.Foxy said:
With an Irish backstop border in the Irish Sea...Charles said:
Which is why we will have a Canada style dealwilliamglenn said:
The agreement is ingenious in the sense that she can claim with technical accuracy that we will end free movement, even if free movement never actually ends. The EU have been clear that the four freedoms are still indivisible when it comes to the future relationship.TheWhiteRabbit said:May's responses on the WA have been technically accurate, which is much better than her opponents (on both sides of the house). Sure, her political nous sometimes leaves something to be desired, but still - she should go for it.
There is still hope that, in a few years, a technological solution is vailable. I know Charles thinks so.0 -
May agreeing to a debate about 18 months too late. It has the whiff of desperation. Why not get the cabinet up there. That would be good.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Avoid the biggest subject in politics today. With respect Nick you are being partisanNickPalmer said:
He should say he'll be glad to debate her on the hustings in a General Election - name the day!AlastairMeeks said:Jeremy Corbyn would probably win the debate and lose the politics as he showed his hand. He is doing much better not disclosing his views on Brexit with any clarity. But declining would also be embarrassing.
The idea is unusually good politics from Theresa May. Presumably it is someone else’s.0 -
The Deal does end free movement for GB after the transition period, the Customs Union does not require free movement and the backstop will see GB stay in the Customs Union not the single market, though some elements of the single market will apply to NIwilliamglenn said:
There's no time to implement a Canada style deal before the transition runs out. It points to a Norway style deal with some clever obfuscation of what it really means.Charles said:
Which is why we will have a Canada style dealwilliamglenn said:
The agreement is ingenious in the sense that she can claim with technical accuracy that we will end free movement, even if free movement never actually ends. The EU have been clear that the four freedoms are still indivisible when it comes to the future relationship.TheWhiteRabbit said:May's responses on the WA have been technically accurate, which is much better than her opponents (on both sides of the house). Sure, her political nous sometimes leaves something to be desired, but still - she should go for it.
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Why do labour supporters want to deflect from the issue.Jonathan said:
May agreeing to a debate about 18 months too late. It has the whiff of desperation. Why not get the cabinet up there. That would be good.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Avoid the biggest subject in politics today. With respect Nick you are being partisanNickPalmer said:
He should say he'll be glad to debate her on the hustings in a General Election - name the day!AlastairMeeks said:Jeremy Corbyn would probably win the debate and lose the politics as he showed his hand. He is doing much better not disclosing his views on Brexit with any clarity. But declining would also be embarrassing.
The idea is unusually good politics from Theresa May. Presumably it is someone else’s.0 -
I don't really see this as a serious runner , and would only be suggested as a desperate attempt to get Theresa May out of a hole. There was no debate between party leaders at the time of the Referendum nor did May participate when the opportunity was available at the General Election. Tony Blair never offered to debate with party leaders opposed to the Iraq War, and neither did Thatcher & Major in relation to ERM entry. It would be little more than a smokescreen to cover up the divisions within her own ranks.0
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The tube scene was bad but imo some of the speeches were rather oddly delivered as well.Casino_Royale said:
The stupid tube scene totally ruins it for me.DavidL said:Rewatching The Darkest Hour tonight. Where is the Attlee of our days?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=skrdyoabmgA
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Impartial as ever Dr Fox. If you are so confident why not support itFoxy said:
The problem in that debate, and indeed nearly all others including this proposal, is that soundbites and pointscoring count more than patient nuanced fact based discussion.williamglenn said:
Clegg can't help dissembling and talking down to people so it shouldn't have been a surprise he came off second best. Even his use of language was patronising, for example referring to "something called the Lisbon treaty" as if he thought the audience shouldn't bother themselves with the details.Recidivist said:
As has already been pointed out, most of us thought that Clegg would easily handle Farage.RoyalBlue said:
He could say that. However, I don’t think most people want an election in the winter.NickPalmer said:
He should say he'll be glad to debate her on the hustings in a General Election - name the day!AlastairMeeks said:Jeremy Corbyn would probably win the debate and lose the politics as he showed his hand. He is doing much better not disclosing his views on Brexit with any clarity. But declining would also be embarrassing.
The idea is unusually good politics from Theresa May. Presumably it is someone else’s.
I think Jeremy’s double-digit IQ would be revealed in a 1-on-1 debate. I do hope May proposes it.
May will be like a rabbit in the headlights as Corbyn brings austerity into every answer. He would bury her, not with facts but with rhetoric.0 -
It not deflecting, it’s just a little embarrassing that May is reduced to this.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Why do labour supporters want to deflect from the issue.Jonathan said:
May agreeing to a debate about 18 months too late. It has the whiff of desperation. Why not get the cabinet up there. That would be good.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Avoid the biggest subject in politics today. With respect Nick you are being partisanNickPalmer said:
He should say he'll be glad to debate her on the hustings in a General Election - name the day!AlastairMeeks said:Jeremy Corbyn would probably win the debate and lose the politics as he showed his hand. He is doing much better not disclosing his views on Brexit with any clarity. But declining would also be embarrassing.
The idea is unusually good politics from Theresa May. Presumably it is someone else’s.0 -
We do not yet know what is in the post Transition Deal. It may well be that preferential migration may feature, particularly if that deal is after the fall of the Tory government.HYUFD said:
The Deal does end free movement for GB after the transition period, the Customs Union does not require free movement and the backstop will see GB stay in the Customs Union not the single market, though some elements of the single market will apply to NIwilliamglenn said:
There's no time to implement a Canada style deal before the transition runs out. It points to a Norway style deal with some clever obfuscation of what it really means.Charles said:
Which is why we will have a Canada style dealwilliamglenn said:
The agreement is ingenious in the sense that she can claim with technical accuracy that we will end free movement, even if free movement never actually ends. The EU have been clear that the four freedoms are still indivisible when it comes to the future relationship.TheWhiteRabbit said:May's responses on the WA have been technically accurate, which is much better than her opponents (on both sides of the house). Sure, her political nous sometimes leaves something to be desired, but still - she should go for it.
0 -
I cannot see the point myself, particularly as it would be most likely to be after the Parliamentary vote, but would watch with popcorn.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Impartial as ever Dr Fox. If you are so confident why not support itFoxy said:
The problem in that debate, and indeed nearly all others including this proposal, is that soundbites and pointscoring count more than patient nuanced fact based discussion.williamglenn said:
Clegg can't help dissembling and talking down to people so it shouldn't have been a surprise he came off second best. Even his use of language was patronising, for example referring to "something called the Lisbon treaty" as if he thought the audience shouldn't bother themselves with the details.Recidivist said:
As has already been pointed out, most of us thought that Clegg would easily handle Farage.RoyalBlue said:
He could say that. However, I don’t think most people want an election in the winter.NickPalmer said:
He should say he'll be glad to debate her on the hustings in a General Election - name the day!AlastairMeeks said:Jeremy Corbyn would probably win the debate and lose the politics as he showed his hand. He is doing much better not disclosing his views on Brexit with any clarity. But declining would also be embarrassing.
The idea is unusually good politics from Theresa May. Presumably it is someone else’s.
I think Jeremy’s double-digit IQ would be revealed in a 1-on-1 debate. I do hope May proposes it.
May will be like a rabbit in the headlights as Corbyn brings austerity into every answer. He would bury her, not with facts but with rhetoric.
May is a poor performer in these situations, and knows it.0 -
Beyond that there were quite a few historical inaccuracies . Churchill ,in reality, did not receive the summons to the Palace whilst at Chartwell - he was actually at the Admiralty. Similarly Chamberlain had not been diagnosed with his terminal illness by late May/early June 1940.DecrepitJohnL said:
The tube scene was bad but imo some of the speeches were rather oddly delivered as well.Casino_Royale said:
The stupid tube scene totally ruins it for me.DavidL said:Rewatching The Darkest Hour tonight. Where is the Attlee of our days?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=skrdyoabmgA0 -
Tbh I found that a lot less annoying on the TV than I did in the cinema. It’s a superb film and an unbelievable performance.Casino_Royale said:
The stupid tube scene totally ruins it for me.DavidL said:Rewatching The Darkest Hour tonight. Where is the Attlee of our days?
But I couldn’t stop reflecting on the role that Attlee played and the absolutely unequivocal support of His Majesty’s Loyal Opposition. To see the curs running Labour today so uninterested in the National interest today is so sad.0 -
Given that the Spanish government has recently authorised the use of force against its own population, it shouldn’t be surprising they want to emulate Franco in another waymatt said:G
He reads questions scripted by others. He doesn’t, as far as I can tell, rework questions on the fly to reflect and take advantage of earlier answers.FF43 said:Back when, Corbyn avoided Brexit in PMQs . No longer. He doesn't win every time, but usually he does. It isn't particularly difficult for him.
0 -
Surely the other party leaders , DUP, SNP, Lib Dems etc would ask to be involved .?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Impartial as ever Dr Fox. If you are so confident why not support itFoxy said:
The problem in that debate, and indeed nearly all others including this proposal, is that soundbites and pointscoring count more than patient nuanced fact based discussion.williamglenn said:
Clegg can't help dissembling and talking down to people so it shouldn't have been a surprise he came off second best. Even his use of language was patronising, for example referring to "something called the Lisbon treaty" as if he thought the audience shouldn't bother themselves with the details.Recidivist said:
As has already been pointed out, most of us thought that Clegg would easily handle Farage.RoyalBlue said:
He could say that. However, I don’t think most people want an election in the winter.NickPalmer said:
He should say he'll be glad to debate her on the hustings in a General Election - name the day!AlastairMeeks said:Jeremy Corbyn would probably win the debate and lose the politics as he showed his hand. He is doing much better not disclosing his views on Brexit with any clarity. But declining would also be embarrassing.
The idea is unusually good politics from Theresa May. Presumably it is someone else’s.
I think Jeremy’s double-digit IQ would be revealed in a 1-on-1 debate. I do hope May proposes it.
May will be like a rabbit in the headlights as Corbyn brings austerity into every answer. He would bury her, not with facts but with rhetoric.
Anyways I do not think Corbyn would be shaking in his boots to be up against May.
0 -
It's not the same government.Charles said:
Given that the Spanish government has recently authorised the use of force against its own population, it shouldn’t be surprising they want to emulate Franco in another waymatt said:G
He reads questions scripted by others. He doesn’t, as far as I can tell, rework questions on the fly to reflect and take advantage of earlier answers.FF43 said:Back when, Corbyn avoided Brexit in PMQs . No longer. He doesn't win every time, but usually he does. It isn't particularly difficult for him.
0 -
The Darkest Hour 2, the Brexit years is amazing. Judy Denchs portrayal of Mays decent into talking to herself in made up debates is only over shadowed by Danny Dyers Cameron flashback pig scene.0
-
A further inaccuracy ,however, is that the film shows the Labour leadership sitting on the Opposition benches even after having joined the Coalition Government! That was nonsense, of course.DavidL said:
Tbh I found that a lot less annoying on the TV than I did in the cinema. It’s a superb film and an unbelievable performance.Casino_Royale said:
The stupid tube scene totally ruins it for me.DavidL said:Rewatching The Darkest Hour tonight. Where is the Attlee of our days?
But I couldn’t stop reflecting on the role that Attlee played and the absolutely unequivocal support of His Majesty’s Loyal Opposition. To see the curs running Labour today so uninterested in the National interest today is so sad.0 -
Just a different view of what the national interest is.DavidL said:
Tbh I found that a lot less annoying on the TV than I did in the cinema. It’s a superb film and an unbelievable performance.Casino_Royale said:
The stupid tube scene totally ruins it for me.DavidL said:Rewatching The Darkest Hour tonight. Where is the Attlee of our days?
But I couldn’t stop reflecting on the role that Attlee played and the absolutely unequivocal support of His Majesty’s Loyal Opposition. To see the curs running Labour today so uninterested in the National interest today is so sad.
It is not for the Labour party to rescue the Tories have from the hole that they dug for themselves.0 -
It was Labour who got Churchill the top job. Tories neither liked nor trusted the serial turncoat and rebel who'd spent the past decade attacking the Conservative government, and not just over rearmament.DavidL said:
Tbh I found that a lot less annoying on the TV than I did in the cinema. It’s a superb film and an unbelievable performance.Casino_Royale said:
The stupid tube scene totally ruins it for me.DavidL said:Rewatching The Darkest Hour tonight. Where is the Attlee of our days?
But I couldn’t stop reflecting on the role that Attlee played and the absolutely unequivocal support of His Majesty’s Loyal Opposition. To see the curs running Labour today so uninterested in the National interest today is so sad.0 -
malcolmg said:
It was on Sky cinema Malcolm. My son, who didn’t see it at the cinema, loved it. For me, for all of Churchill’s brilliant speeches the “baddie” Halifax gets the best line of the film. When asked what just happened he replies: “ we have mobilised the English language and sent it off to war”.malcolmg said:
what channel was it on DavidDavidL said:Rewatching The Darkest Hour tonight. Where is the Attlee of our days?
PS assume will be on netflix or Amazon
PPS: I saw it on the big screen and it was excellent0 -
Halifax was also acceptable to Labour.DecrepitJohnL said:
It was Labour who got Churchill the top job. Tories neither liked nor trusted the serial turncoat and rebel who'd spent the past decade attacking the Conservative government, and not just over rearmament.DavidL said:
Tbh I found that a lot less annoying on the TV than I did in the cinema. It’s a superb film and an unbelievable performance.Casino_Royale said:
The stupid tube scene totally ruins it for me.DavidL said:Rewatching The Darkest Hour tonight. Where is the Attlee of our days?
But I couldn’t stop reflecting on the role that Attlee played and the absolutely unequivocal support of His Majesty’s Loyal Opposition. To see the curs running Labour today so uninterested in the National interest today is so sad.0 -
For you maybe - but then anything TM does you will not likeJonathan said:
It not deflecting, it’s just a little embarrassing that May is reduced to this.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Why do labour supporters want to deflect from the issue.Jonathan said:
May agreeing to a debate about 18 months too late. It has the whiff of desperation. Why not get the cabinet up there. That would be good.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Avoid the biggest subject in politics today. With respect Nick you are being partisanNickPalmer said:
He should say he'll be glad to debate her on the hustings in a General Election - name the day!AlastairMeeks said:Jeremy Corbyn would probably win the debate and lose the politics as he showed his hand. He is doing much better not disclosing his views on Brexit with any clarity. But declining would also be embarrassing.
The idea is unusually good politics from Theresa May. Presumably it is someone else’s.0 -
Staying in the (or rather 'a') customs union but not the single market is a genuinely dumb idea. It puts us in the same boat as Turkey which is pretty disastrous for trade.HYUFD said:
The Deal does end free movement for GB after the transition period, the Customs Union does not require free movement and the backstop will see GB stay in the Customs Union not the single market, though some elements of the single market will apply to NIwilliamglenn said:
There's no time to implement a Canada style deal before the transition runs out. It points to a Norway style deal with some clever obfuscation of what it really means.Charles said:
Which is why we will have a Canada style dealwilliamglenn said:
The agreement is ingenious in the sense that she can claim with technical accuracy that we will end free movement, even if free movement never actually ends. The EU have been clear that the four freedoms are still indivisible when it comes to the future relationship.TheWhiteRabbit said:May's responses on the WA have been technically accurate, which is much better than her opponents (on both sides of the house). Sure, her political nous sometimes leaves something to be desired, but still - she should go for it.
0 -
Kind of funny that Spain is allowed to continually try to renegotiate a treaty but it would be unacceptable for the U.K. to do soFF43 said:
You come to deal to make it worth the other party keep your setup in place. It's the same for any small anomalous entity next to a much larger one. In my view the UK's commitment to Gibraltar should be limited to preventing any invasion or blockade of essential supplies. Then leave it up to Gibraltar to make the best accommodation it can with Spain. I don't see why we should maintain a tax haven that acts against Spain's interest or support the first minister of Gibraltar when he insults Spanish officials.RobD said:
And when they want more?FF43 said:The key lesson for Gibraltar is that if you are lucky enough to be a goose laying golden eggs it's sensible to offer eggs generously to those that think the eggs belong to them and are in a position to kill you.
0 -
He did, in terms of facts and arguments. What he wasn`t really prepared for was Farage`s lack of manners.Recidivist said:
As has already been pointed out, most of us thought that Clegg would easily handle Farage.RoyalBlue said:
He could say that. However, I don’t think most people want an election in the winter.NickPalmer said:
He should say he'll be glad to debate her on the hustings in a General Election - name the day!AlastairMeeks said:Jeremy Corbyn would probably win the debate and lose the politics as he showed his hand. He is doing much better not disclosing his views on Brexit with any clarity. But declining would also be embarrassing.
The idea is unusually good politics from Theresa May. Presumably it is someone else’s.
I think Jeremy’s double-digit IQ would be revealed in a 1-on-1 debate. I do hope May proposes it.
0 -
Shame then that Churchill called Atlee "A modest man with much to be modest about "DavidL said:
Tbh I found that a lot less annoying on the TV than I did in the cinema. It’s a superb film and an unbelievable performance.Casino_Royale said:
The stupid tube scene totally ruins it for me.DavidL said:Rewatching The Darkest Hour tonight. Where is the Attlee of our days?
But I couldn’t stop reflecting on the role that Attlee played and the absolutely unequivocal support of His Majesty’s Loyal Opposition. To see the curs running Labour today so uninterested in the National interest today is so sad.0 -
Indeed and kept him in it too. Their determination to fight and defeat Hitler was absolutely unqualified. When people argue who are greatest PMs were and mention Attlee I remember his war record and nod.DecrepitJohnL said:
It was Labour who got Churchill the top job. Tories neither liked nor trusted the serial turncoat and rebel who'd spent the past decade attacking the Conservative government, and not just over rearmament.DavidL said:
Tbh I found that a lot less annoying on the TV than I did in the cinema. It’s a superb film and an unbelievable performance.Casino_Royale said:
The stupid tube scene totally ruins it for me.DavidL said:Rewatching The Darkest Hour tonight. Where is the Attlee of our days?
But I couldn’t stop reflecting on the role that Attlee played and the absolutely unequivocal support of His Majesty’s Loyal Opposition. To see the curs running Labour today so uninterested in the National interest today is so sad.0 -
It is pretty much the basis of the Deal and getting trade deals dictated to us from China and the USA is not what most Leave voters were voting forRichard_Tyndall said:
Staying in the (or rather 'a') customs union but not the single market is a genuinely dumb idea. It puts us in the same boat as Turkey which is pretty disastrous for trade.HYUFD said:
The Deal does end free movement for GB after the transition period, the Customs Union does not require free movement and the backstop will see GB stay in the Customs Union not the single market, though some elements of the single market will apply to NIwilliamglenn said:
There's no time to implement a Canada style deal before the transition runs out. It points to a Norway style deal with some clever obfuscation of what it really means.Charles said:
Which is why we will have a Canada style dealwilliamglenn said:
The agreement is ingenious in the sense that she can claim with technical accuracy that we will end free movement, even if free movement never actually ends. The EU have been clear that the four freedoms are still indivisible when it comes to the future relationship.TheWhiteRabbit said:May's responses on the WA have been technically accurate, which is much better than her opponents (on both sides of the house). Sure, her political nous sometimes leaves something to be desired, but still - she should go for it.
0 -
The way through the impasse is to write into the WA an obligation for the EU and UK to make a join application to the WTO for a ruling that they can treat the Irish border differently to other borders because of the legacy issuesTheWhiteRabbit said:
Charles means for the FP, so the risk is not a border in the Irish sea but on the island itself.Foxy said:
With an Irish backstop border in the Irish Sea...Charles said:
Which is why we will have a Canada style dealwilliamglenn said:
The agreement is ingenious in the sense that she can claim with technical accuracy that we will end free movement, even if free movement never actually ends. The EU have been clear that the four freedoms are still indivisible when it comes to the future relationship.TheWhiteRabbit said:May's responses on the WA have been technically accurate, which is much better than her opponents (on both sides of the house). Sure, her political nous sometimes leaves something to be desired, but still - she should go for it.
There is still hope that, in a few years, a technological solution is vailable. I know Charles thinks so.0 -
Halifax and Chamberlain were both treated unfairly in the film. There was never a serious plot to oust Churchill in the way suggested - though Halifax did consider resignation. Chamberlain was never firmly in the Halifax camp in that he never went beyond sitting on the fence before joining Attlee & Greenwood by coming out in full support of Churchill.0
-
Only under a Labour PMFoxy said:
We do not yet know what is in the post Transition Deal. It may well be that preferential migration may feature, particularly if that deal is after the fall of the Tory government.HYUFD said:
The Deal does end free movement for GB after the transition period, the Customs Union does not require free movement and the backstop will see GB stay in the Customs Union not the single market, though some elements of the single market will apply to NIwilliamglenn said:
There's no time to implement a Canada style deal before the transition runs out. It points to a Norway style deal with some clever obfuscation of what it really means.Charles said:
Which is why we will have a Canada style dealwilliamglenn said:
The agreement is ingenious in the sense that she can claim with technical accuracy that we will end free movement, even if free movement never actually ends. The EU have been clear that the four freedoms are still indivisible when it comes to the future relationship.TheWhiteRabbit said:May's responses on the WA have been technically accurate, which is much better than her opponents (on both sides of the house). Sure, her political nous sometimes leaves something to be desired, but still - she should go for it.
0 -
justin124 said:
A further inaccuracy ,however, is that the film shows the Labour leadership sitting on the Opposition benches even after having joined the Coalition Government! That was nonsense, of course.DavidL said:
Tbh I found that a lot less annoying on the TV than I did in the cinema. It’s a superb film and an unbelievable performance.Casino_Royale said:
The stupid tube scene totally ruins it for me.DavidL said:Rewatching The Darkest Hour tonight. Where is the Attlee of our days?
But I couldn’t stop reflecting on the role that Attlee played and the absolutely unequivocal support of His Majesty’s Loyal Opposition. To see the curs running Labour today so uninterested in the National interest today is so sad.
I wondered about that. As all parties came together presumably some of the MPs had to sit on the other side. Attlee is beside Churchill.0 -
I knowgeoffw said:
It's not the same government.Charles said:
Given that the Spanish government has recently authorised the use of force against its own population, it shouldn’t be surprising they want to emulate Franco in another waymatt said:G
He reads questions scripted by others. He doesn’t, as far as I can tell, rework questions on the fly to reflect and take advantage of earlier answers.FF43 said:Back when, Corbyn avoided Brexit in PMQs . No longer. He doesn't win every time, but usually he does. It isn't particularly difficult for him.
0 -
Leavers don’t get to define the national interest. The EU is not Nazi Germany and leaving the EU does not have to be done on the terms of committed Leavers (indeed, they can’t agree among themselves). Labour owe the government nothing in relation to Brexit.DavidL said:
Tbh I found that a lot less annoying on the TV than I did in the cinema. It’s a superb film and an unbelievable performance.Casino_Royale said:
The stupid tube scene totally ruins it for me.DavidL said:Rewatching The Darkest Hour tonight. Where is the Attlee of our days?
But I couldn’t stop reflecting on the role that Attlee played and the absolutely unequivocal support of His Majesty’s Loyal Opposition. To see the curs running Labour today so uninterested in the National interest today is so sad.0 -
Churchill was of course a Liberal for much of his career and while a great war leader his electoral record as Tory leader in peacetime was not great, he lost 2 general elections in 1945 and 1950 to Attlee and beat Attlee once in 1951.DecrepitJohnL said:
It was Labour who got Churchill the top job. Tories neither liked nor trusted the serial turncoat and rebel who'd spent the past decade attacking the Conservative government, and not just over rearmament.DavidL said:
Tbh I found that a lot less annoying on the TV than I did in the cinema. It’s a superb film and an unbelievable performance.Casino_Royale said:
The stupid tube scene totally ruins it for me.DavidL said:Rewatching The Darkest Hour tonight. Where is the Attlee of our days?
But I couldn’t stop reflecting on the role that Attlee played and the absolutely unequivocal support of His Majesty’s Loyal Opposition. To see the curs running Labour today so uninterested in the National interest today is so sad.
If May is Chamberlain then is Hammond Halifax and given Corbyn's commitment to accept the Brexit vote is he Attlee to Boris' Churchill?
In which case now May has her Munich Deal is this 1939 with Boris taking over next year as PM on a No Deal 'no surrender to Brussels' ticket?
0 -
The one where the unicorn runs thru the wooded snowscene and Dallas is found bonded into the wall of Nostromo, this proving to Churchill that he is a replicant. he later goes on to defend Moscow against the zombies.Sunil_Prasannan said:What "Tube scene"?
0 -
More that Chamberlain was unacceptable. Without knowing chapter and verse (which you may) I'd not want to speculate on Labour's attitude to Halifax who was always an unlikely choice because he was, of course, in the House of Lords. Since Halifax himself recognised this effectively ruled him out, how seriously did Labour consider it?justin124 said:
Halifax was also acceptable to Labour.DecrepitJohnL said:
It was Labour who got Churchill the top job. Tories neither liked nor trusted the serial turncoat and rebel who'd spent the past decade attacking the Conservative government, and not just over rearmament.DavidL said:
Tbh I found that a lot less annoying on the TV than I did in the cinema. It’s a superb film and an unbelievable performance.Casino_Royale said:
The stupid tube scene totally ruins it for me.DavidL said:Rewatching The Darkest Hour tonight. Where is the Attlee of our days?
But I couldn’t stop reflecting on the role that Attlee played and the absolutely unequivocal support of His Majesty’s Loyal Opposition. To see the curs running Labour today so uninterested in the National interest today is so sad.0 -
Halifax also was kept on by Churchill as Foreign Secretary, and later as ambassador to the USA until the end of the war.justin124 said:Halifax and Chamberlain were both treated unfairly in the film. There was never a serious plot to oust Churchill in the way suggested - though Halifax did consider resignation. Chamberlain was never firmly in the Halifax camp in that he never went beyond sitting on the fence before joining Attlee & Greenwood by coming out in full support of Churchill.
0 -
Normally a way through is supposed to at least pay lip service to the other side's concerns.Charles said:
The way through the impasse is to write into the WA an obligation for the EU and UK to make a join application to the WTO for a ruling that they can treat the Irish border differently to other borders because of the legacy issuesTheWhiteRabbit said:
Charles means for the FP, so the risk is not a border in the Irish sea but on the island itself.Foxy said:
With an Irish backstop border in the Irish Sea...Charles said:
Which is why we will have a Canada style dealwilliamglenn said:
The agreement is ingenious in the sense that she can claim with technical accuracy that we will end free movement, even if free movement never actually ends. The EU have been clear that the four freedoms are still indivisible when it comes to the future relationship.TheWhiteRabbit said:May's responses on the WA have been technically accurate, which is much better than her opponents (on both sides of the house). Sure, her political nous sometimes leaves something to be desired, but still - she should go for it.
There is still hope that, in a few years, a technological solution is vailable. I know Charles thinks so.0 -
On the subject of Chamberlain, Robert Harris's Munich is a great book, and whilst obviously a fictionalised account of Chamberlain's peace efforts it did lead me to consider that he was probably just trying to do the best for the country in very difficult circumstances ahaed of the way.justin124 said:Halifax and Chamberlain were both treated unfairly in the film. There was never a serious plot to oust Churchill in the way suggested - though Halifax did consider resignation. Chamberlain was never firmly in the Halifax camp in that he never went beyond sitting on the fence before joining Attlee & Greenwood by coming out in full support of Churchill.
He has probably been portayed unfairly harshly by many accounts.0 -
Not Halifax, but in fact Edward R. Murrow:DavidL said:
It was on Sky cinema Malcolm. My son, who didn’t see it at the cinema, loved it. For me, for all of Churchill’s brilliant speeches the “baddie” Halifax gets the best line of the film. When asked what just happened he replies: “ we have mobilised the English language and sent it off to war”.
https://winstonchurchill.org/resources/quotes/quotes-faq/0 -
Did you spot Boris Johnson’s cameo as the pig? With that exposure he looked like the cat that got the cream.DavidL said:Jonathan said:The Darkest Hour 2, the Brexit years is amazing. Judy Denchs portrayal of Mays decent into talking to herself in made up debates is only over shadowed by Danny Dyers Cameron flashback pig scene.
LOL. Very good.0 -
Much as May is now, Chamberlain like May had an almost impossible hand to playBenpointer said:
On the subject of Chamberlain, Robert Harris's Munich is a great book, and whilst obviously a fictionalised account of Chamberlain's peace efforts it did lead me to consider that he was probably just trying to do the best for the country in very difficult circumstances ahaed of the way.justin124 said:Halifax and Chamberlain were both treated unfairly in the film. There was never a serious plot to oust Churchill in the way suggested - though Halifax did consider resignation. Chamberlain was never firmly in the Halifax camp in that he never went beyond sitting on the fence before joining Attlee & Greenwood by coming out in full support of Churchill.
He has probably been portayed unfairly harshly by many accounts.
0 -
What's the point of a debate between May and Corbyn outside of the Commons unless they are campaigning either in a GE or a referendum? This seems like a desperate Tory attempt to use one of their few strong cards. What are people supposed to do after they've heard the debate? Vote on Twitter? Call their MP? Corbyn should say he rejects the politics of showmanship and that he is only willing to debate her outside of the House if she shows the courage to call a GE (or referendum, if that suits better, but probably a GE given Labour's positioning). In short, let the voters decide. How will she respond - by calling him frit?
Meanwhile, MPs who say they back a referendum number roughly
59 SNP
44 Lab
12 LibDem
8 Con
total 123.0 -
Quite a few Labour people were initially more favourably disposed towards Halifax than to Churchill. Many shared the distrust of the latter that was widespread on the Tory benches at the time.DecrepitJohnL said:
More that Chamberlain was unacceptable. Without knowing chapter and verse (which you may) I'd not want to speculate on Labour's attitude to Halifax who was always an unlikely choice because he was, of course, in the House of Lords. Since Halifax himself recognised this effectively ruled him out, how seriously did Labour consider it?justin124 said:
Halifax was also acceptable to Labour.DecrepitJohnL said:
It was Labour who got Churchill the top job. Tories neither liked nor trusted the serial turncoat and rebel who'd spent the past decade attacking the Conservative government, and not just over rearmament.DavidL said:
Tbh I found that a lot less annoying on the TV than I did in the cinema. It’s a superb film and an unbelievable performance.Casino_Royale said:
The stupid tube scene totally ruins it for me.DavidL said:Rewatching The Darkest Hour tonight. Where is the Attlee of our days?
But I couldn’t stop reflecting on the role that Attlee played and the absolutely unequivocal support of His Majesty’s Loyal Opposition. To see the curs running Labour today so uninterested in the National interest today is so sad.0 -
It's difficult to say Labour are acting in the national interest when they can't agree with each other and have made a point of not adopting any single position for the last two years. Corbyn even says he doesn't know how he would vote in a second referendum.AlastairMeeks said:
Leavers don’t get to define the national interest. The EU is not Nazi Germany and leaving the EU does not have to be done on the terms of committed Leavers (indeed, they can’t agree among themselves). Labour owe the government nothing in relation to Brexit.DavidL said:
Tbh I found that a lot less annoying on the TV than I did in the cinema. It’s a superb film and an unbelievable performance.Casino_Royale said:
The stupid tube scene totally ruins it for me.DavidL said:Rewatching The Darkest Hour tonight. Where is the Attlee of our days?
But I couldn’t stop reflecting on the role that Attlee played and the absolutely unequivocal support of His Majesty’s Loyal Opposition. To see the curs running Labour today so uninterested in the National interest today is so sad.0 -
Somehow I think all Brexit comparisons to the Second World War enormously trivialise the horror of that conflict.HYUFD said:
Churchill was of course a Liberal for much of his career and while a great war leader his electoral record as Tory leader in peacetime was not great, he lost 2 general elections in 1945 and 1950 to Attlee and beat Attlee once in 1951.DecrepitJohnL said:
It was Labour who got Churchill the top job. Tories neither liked nor trusted the serial turncoat and rebel who'd spent the past decade attacking the Conservative government, and not just over rearmament.DavidL said:
Tbh I found that a lot less annoying on the TV than I did in the cinema. It’s a superb film and an unbelievable performance.Casino_Royale said:
The stupid tube scene totally ruins it for me.DavidL said:Rewatching The Darkest Hour tonight. Where is the Attlee of our days?
But I couldn’t stop reflecting on the role that Attlee played and the absolutely unequivocal support of His Majesty’s Loyal Opposition. To see the curs running Labour today so uninterested in the National interest today is so sad.
If May is Chamberlain then is Hammond Halifax and given Corbyn's commitment to accept the Brexit vote is he Attlee to Boris' Churchill?
In which case now May has her Munich Deal is this 1939 with Boris taking over next year as PM on a No Deal 'no surrender to Brussels' ticket?0 -
Who then, amongst our politicians, is acting in the national interest?TheWhiteRabbit said:
It's difficult to say Labour are acting in the national interest when they can't agree with each other and have made a point of not adopting any single position for the last two years. Corbyn even says he doesn't know how he would vote in a second referendum.AlastairMeeks said:
Leavers don’t get to define the national interest. The EU is not Nazi Germany and leaving the EU does not have to be done on the terms of committed Leavers (indeed, they can’t agree among themselves). Labour owe the government nothing in relation to Brexit.DavidL said:
Tbh I found that a lot less annoying on the TV than I did in the cinema. It’s a superb film and an unbelievable performance.Casino_Royale said:
The stupid tube scene totally ruins it for me.DavidL said:Rewatching The Darkest Hour tonight. Where is the Attlee of our days?
But I couldn’t stop reflecting on the role that Attlee played and the absolutely unequivocal support of His Majesty’s Loyal Opposition. To see the curs running Labour today so uninterested in the National interest today is so sad.0 -
Mays problems are self inflicted, Chamberlains were anything but.HYUFD said:
Much as May is now, Chamberlain like May had an almost impossible hand to playBenpointer said:
On the subject of Chamberlain, Robert Harris's Munich is a great book, and whilst obviously a fictionalised account of Chamberlain's peace efforts it did lead me to consider that he was probably just trying to do the best for the country in very difficult circumstances ahaed of the way.justin124 said:Halifax and Chamberlain were both treated unfairly in the film. There was never a serious plot to oust Churchill in the way suggested - though Halifax did consider resignation. Chamberlain was never firmly in the Halifax camp in that he never went beyond sitting on the fence before joining Attlee & Greenwood by coming out in full support of Churchill.
He has probably been portayed unfairly harshly by many accounts.0 -
It's an interesting and perhaps understudied encounter. Clegg was originally thought by the commentariat to have won the encounter, but the below-the-line commentators were vehemently pro-Farage and it is this view that has come into favour.PClipp said:
He did, in terms of facts and arguments. What he wasn`t really prepared for was Farage`s lack of manners.Recidivist said:
As has already been pointed out, most of us thought that Clegg would easily handle Farage.RoyalBlue said:
He could say that. However, I don’t think most people want an election in the winter.NickPalmer said:
He should say he'll be glad to debate her on the hustings in a General Election - name the day!AlastairMeeks said:Jeremy Corbyn would probably win the debate and lose the politics as he showed his hand. He is doing much better not disclosing his views on Brexit with any clarity. But declining would also be embarrassing.
The idea is unusually good politics from Theresa May. Presumably it is someone else’s.
I think Jeremy’s double-digit IQ would be revealed in a 1-on-1 debate. I do hope May proposes it.
We used to have public arguments and experts tell us who won, now we have arguments and a large screaming crowd on Twitter and below-the-line declare the winner by force of shouting.
If I ever go into politics (you have my full permission to shoot me if I do) i will go armed with many thousands (millions?) of virtual personas and bots - you can buy or manufacture them - and shout down all opposition and before people know what has happened I will have won0 -
The irony is that if Theresa May had been prepared to debate Corbyn last year she could have won a healthy majority, she may not have panicked into agreeing the EU's scheduling on day one (neutering 'the fight of the summer') or panicked into agreeing the backstop. The whole negotiation may have turned out differently.0
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Just to apologize to Yorkcity - he wasn't really being condescending, I was just being a bit precious.0
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It is *wild* how right wingers, who for years have droned on about "personal responsibility" and how "choices have consequences" and "with rights come responsibilities" are now spectacularly frothing themselves into rage at the consequences of Brexit.
Brexit means risking Northern Ireland? If only someone had warned us.
Brexit means giving Spain leverage over us with regard to Gibraltar? Don't they know who we are?
Choices have consequences.
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