tlg86 said:

AlastairMeeks said:

currystar said:

DavidL said:

From the ONS report on borrowing this morning:

"Receipts in September 2018 increased by 3.2% compared with September 2017, to £56.4 billion, while total expenditure increased by 2.8% to £59.4 billion.

Much of the annual growth in receipts came from Value Added Tax (VAT), Income Tax and National Insurance contributions, while other taxes such as duties on both tobacco and Stamp Duty (on land and properties) have fallen marginally on September 2017."

I mean, what is it going to take for us to rebase our growth figures? Its getting silly.

The ONS is simply not fit for purpose. As I have been saying on here for years Britain is booming, there is zero unemployment and I would guess growth has been around 3-4% a year for at least the last five years, despite of course the economy being run by the worst government in history.

I’d prefer to back the ONS over guesses pulled from the arse of a pb poster. Similtaneously you can find no shortage of other pb posters saying how terrible Britain is, usually blaming immigrants for depressing wages. The ONS takes an overview, not just anecdotal experience. It doesn’t always get it right but it’s very professional at what it does.

Forgive me Alastair if I am misremembering, but did you not write a thread header that questioned the immigration statistics? I've had a quick Google and couldn't find anything so perhaps it wasn't you, but I'm sure I've seen someone on here question them.

Erm, I genuinely have no recollection either way. But I would not describe the ONS as not fit for purpose. They are making a huge balls-up of ditching RPI and of course they make mistakes all the time. But they are highly professional and detached, and you would struggle to find s better national statistics body anywhere.

williamglenn said:

Alanbrooke said:

williamglenn said:

Alanbrooke said:

SouthamObserver said:

Alanbrooke said:

SouthamObserver said:

RobD said:

logical_song said:

RobD said:

williamglenn said:

Alanbrooke said:

CarlottaVance said:

HYUFD said:

Varadkar says May has privately conceded to him the backstop cannot have a time limit

A man who reveals the contents of a private conversation is to be trusted is he?

Leo is getting desperate.....

It's not often I agree with Sammy Wilson but he has a point.

"First of all he knows just how some of the republican madmen in NI will react to the false fears he is stirring up about barriers along the border. Indeed he knows that they will use them to influence stupid and easily led young people to join their ranks"

the only people stirring up the prospects of violence are Varadkar and Coveney

And Boris Johnson.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/leaked-boris-johnson-letter-brexit-hard-irish-border-2018-2/

Where's the stirring up of the prospects of violence? Or does any border automatically mean violence these days?

I think the point you're missing is that the Good Friday Agreement which brought the violence (almost) to an end, was made easier by the fact that Eire and the UK were both in the EU.

The EU is the only thing holding NI back from more bloodshed? OK.

Putting up barriers when they had previously been taken down ep the DUP onside.

The DUP have categorically said they dont want barriers either so how is it their wish ?

If they categorically do not want barriers they would accept the backstop.

or they wouild tell the Irish government to stop being prats and work on a solution

Or they would tell the British government to stop being prats and stop Brexit.

The british government is largely here because Merkel wouldnt give Cameron the concessions on immigation the rest of Europe is quietly installing

The EU shot itself in the foot.

Are you really that ill-informed? Which "concessions on immigation the rest of Europe is quietly installing"? Free movement within the EU isn't under threat anywhere.

The EU gave us transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries but Blair refused to use them in 2004

grabcocque said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Foremain, the ultimate question is whether we want to govern ourselves, and leave the EU, or consider the economic advantages worth sacrificing self-determination.

That's the problem. We'd be happy with the economics and no more politics. But that wasn't on offer.

Mr. Cocque, I've never understood why some people seem to delight in disliking their own nation.

It's about delusion and pomposity. The Brexit buccaneers have been pompous and delusional to a fault, and seeing them slam face first into cold, hard reality has been an absolute delight.

It's going to take this nation a long, long time to rebuild the international trust and respect the UK used to possess and the Tories pissed up the swannee.

I take no pleasure in our nation being a laughing stock, quite the reverse. It is one of the reasons I feel genuine anger toward many Leavers and their faux patriotism.

There are undoubtedly some Leave supporters who like Mr Dancer articulate their thinking well, though I still struggle to see the logic in isolating our country from a large trading block on our doorstep when the benefits are so unclear and the counterarguments to Brexit so logical and clear. What we are saying is that 27 other countries that are happy to pool their sovereignty for considerable benefit are wrong and we (or rather 52% of "us") are right. If there is such a thing as the wisdom of the crowd, we are clearly not very wise.

The one thing I will take some pleasure from is the opprobrium that history will quickly pore on Johnson Fox and Davis for their conceit, self aggrandisement and lies.

Jonathan said:

Eagles, you are now like a god to me. Well done. Good luck.

While I share the latter part of sentiment entirely, was he truly not already a god to you ?

grabcocque said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Cocque, plenty of Labour supporters voted to leave the EU as well. Pretending it was the evil, baby-eating Tories is wrong (and unnecessary, as you can legitimately blame May's incompetence and capitulation for much of the present woe).

Yes, but most of the actual big lies, the clinchers shall we say, came from Tories. It wasn't Labour who told me we'd be able to spend 350 million a week on the NHS. It wasn't Labour who told us "absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the single market" or said that no deal wouldn't happen, that it'd be the easiest deal ever, etc. etc.

The Tories told all the biggest and most important lies.

And now, the actual botching of the botched Brexit belongs to, will always belong to, the Tories.

The Tories will be, for the remainder of posterity, the party that lied about Brexit, and then completely fucking botched it. Labour won't.

It is now likely if May confirms she has confirmed the backstop of permanent SM and CU membership for Northern Ireland that the UK will be on the same terms anyway in the transition period until the end of 2021 and that will be enough for the DUP to keep propping May up given Corbyn and McDonnell are the alternative.

However if no final trade deal agreed by the end of 2021 Boris may fancy his chances of toppling May and chucking the DUP and leading the Tories into a 2022 general election on a platform of CETA for GB

TheScreamingEagles said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Nigelb said:

slade said:

On the Clegg appointment it is interesting that his predecessor as LD MP for Hallam, Richard Allan, is now a senior executive at Facebook.

It's an international moderate conspiracy.

It shows people from Sheffield Hallam are brilliant candidates for any top end role and deserve every penny.

Yes, Jared O'Meara definitely merits every penny of taxpayers money he receives for his outstanding role representing Hallam in Parliament

He became the first Labour person to take Sheffield Hallam, he's exceptional.

Says something about Nick Clegg that he enabled it to happen

RobD said:

HYUFD said:

grabcocque said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Cocque, plenty of Labour supporters voted to leave the EU as well. Pretending it was the evil, baby-eating Tories is wrong (and unnecessary, as you can legitimately blame May's incompetence and capitulation for much of the present woe).

Yes, but most of the actual big lies, the clinchers shall we say, came from Tories. It wasn't Labour who told me we'd be able to spend 350 million a week on the NHS. It wasn't Labour who told us "absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the single market" or said that no deal wouldn't happen, that it'd be the easiest deal ever, etc. etc.

The Tories told all the biggest and most important lies.

And now, the actual botching of the botched Brexit belongs to, will always belong to, the Tories.

The Tories will be, for the remainder of posterity, the party that lied about Brexit, and then completely fucking botched it. Labour won't.

It is now likely if May confirms she has confirmed the backstop of permanent SM and CU membership for Northern Ireland that the UK will be on the same terms anyway in the transition period until the end of 2021 and that will be enough for the DUP to keep propping May up given Corbyn and McDonnell are the alternative.

However if no final trade deal agreed by the end of 2021 Boris may fancy his chances of toppling May and chucking the DUP and leading the Tories into a 2022 general election on a platform of CETA for GB

Wouldn't she have misled the house if she said it would be temporary having already agreed to a permanent one? This sounds fishy, even more so that it comes from a not so disinterested party.

It will be temporary if the full trading future relationship between the UK and EU agreed by the end of the transition period, in which case the backstop does not need to be applied

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Nigelb said:

slade said:

On the Clegg appointment it is interesting that his predecessor as LD MP for Hallam, Richard Allan, is now a senior executive at Facebook.

It's an international moderate conspiracy.

It shows people from Sheffield Hallam are brilliant candidates for any top end role and deserve every penny.

Yes, Jared O'Meara definitely merits every penny of taxpayers money he receives for his outstanding role representing Hallam in Parliament

He became the first Labour person to take Sheffield Hallam, he's exceptional.

Says something about Nick Clegg that he enabled it to happen

It's all in the Orange Book, somewhere. I know of a couple of life long LibDems that sent in resignation letters the moment he became leader, and of many others when he went into coalition with the Conservatives. Possibly sell any shares you have in Facebook ASAP.