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But VAT also reflects the level of consumption which remains (unfortunately) by far the biggest component of our growth. We are growing relatively fast at the moment and it is frustrating that the current debates are taking place in a completely false environment.TheWhiteRabbit said:
VAT was a flow through. Not the others thoughDavidL said:From the ONS report on borrowing this morning:
"Receipts in September 2018 increased by 3.2% compared with September 2017, to £56.4 billion, while total expenditure increased by 2.8% to £59.4 billion.
Much of the annual growth in receipts came from Value Added Tax (VAT), Income Tax and National Insurance contributions, while other taxes such as duties on both tobacco and Stamp Duty (on land and properties) have fallen marginally on September 2017."
I mean, what is it going to take for us to rebase our growth figures? Its getting silly.0 -
yes, but do the German voters understand the consequences of their decisions ? Have the downsides been fully explained to them ? Surely this is just nationalist politicians stirring up shit for a foreigh country.williamglenn said:
We need a second poll0 -
Putting up barriers when they had previously been taken down is sending a very strong message to the large minority of people in Northern Ireland who see themselves as Irish that their wishes are of no importance - especially when it is all being done to keep the DUP onside.RobD said:
The EU is the only thing holding NI back from more bloodshed? OK.logical_song said:
I think the point you're missing is that the Good Friday Agreement which brought the violence (almost) to an end, was made easier by the fact that Eire and the UK were both in the EU.RobD said:
Where's the stirring up of the prospects of violence? Or does any border automatically mean violence these days?williamglenn said:
And Boris Johnson.Alanbrooke said:
It's not often I agree with Sammy Wilson but he has a point.CarlottaVance said:
A man who reveals the contents of a private conversation is to be trusted is he?HYUFD said:Varadkar says May has privately conceded to him the backstop cannot have a time limit
Leo is getting desperate.....
"First of all he knows just how some of the republican madmen in NI will react to the false fears he is stirring up about barriers along the border. Indeed he knows that they will use them to influence stupid and easily led young people to join their ranks"
the only people stirring up the prospects of violence are Varadkar and Coveney
http://uk.businessinsider.com/leaked-boris-johnson-letter-brexit-hard-irish-border-2018-2/
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May did try to turn Brexit into an issue in their election by publishing an op-ed on the day of the vote in the German press.Alanbrooke said:
yes, but do the German voters understand the consequences of their decisions ? Have the downsides been fully explained to them ? Surely this is just nationalist politicians stirring up shit for a foreigh country.williamglenn said:
We need a second poll0 -
The DUP have categorically said they dont want barriers either so how is it their wish ?SouthamObserver said:
Putting up barriers when they had previously been taken down is sending a very strong message to the large minority of people in Northern Ireland who see themselves as Irish that their wishes are of no importance - especially when it is all being done to keep the DUP onside.RobD said:
The EU is the only thing holding NI back from more bloodshed? OK.logical_song said:
I think the point you're missing is that the Good Friday Agreement which brought the violence (almost) to an end, was made easier by the fact that Eire and the UK were both in the EU.RobD said:
Where's the stirring up of the prospects of violence? Or does any border automatically mean violence these days?williamglenn said:
And Boris Johnson.Alanbrooke said:
It's not often I agree with Sammy Wilson but he has a point.CarlottaVance said:
A man who reveals the contents of a private conversation is to be trusted is he?HYUFD said:Varadkar says May has privately conceded to him the backstop cannot have a time limit
Leo is getting desperate.....
"First of all he knows just how some of the republican madmen in NI will react to the false fears he is stirring up about barriers along the border. Indeed he knows that they will use them to influence stupid and easily led young people to join their ranks"
the only people stirring up the prospects of violence are Varadkar and Coveney
http://uk.businessinsider.com/leaked-boris-johnson-letter-brexit-hard-irish-border-2018-2/0 -
You accept there are sleepless dogs. Whether they get their fingers burned (a lot of metaphors here) is a different issue.Alanbrooke said:
well as I have said to you before the paddy posh boys are playing with fire and they will eventually get their fingers burned. The Irish government is made up of blokes in their thirties who think they can do no wrong. Older heads would tell them not to poke the sleeping dogs.TOPPING said:
The "IRA" might have.Alanbrooke said:
no it was made because the IRA had lost the will to continue, Easier borders were simply an issue to help de escalate tensions. The EU had very little to do with it.logical_song said:
I think the point you're missing is that the Good Friday Agreement which brought the violence (almost) to an end, was made easier by the fact that Eire and the UK were both in the EU.RobD said:
Where's the stirring up of the prospects of violence? Or does any border automatically mean violence these days?williamglenn said:
And Boris Johnson.Alanbrooke said:
It's not often I agree with Sammy Wilson but he has a point.CarlottaVance said:
A man who reveals the contents of a private conversation is to be trusted is he?HYUFD said:Varadkar says May has privately conceded to him the backstop cannot have a time limit
Leo is getting desperate.....
"First of all he knows just how some of the republican madmen in NI will react to the false fears he is stirring up about barriers along the border. Indeed he knows that they will use them to influence stupid and easily led young people to join their ranks"
the only people stirring up the prospects of violence are Varadkar and Coveney
http://uk.businessinsider.com/leaked-boris-johnson-letter-brexit-hard-irish-border-2018-2/0 -
Not sure why the EU are so intent on there being a border then. Boggles the mind.SouthamObserver said:
Putting up barriers when they had previously been taken down is sending a very strong message to the large minority of people in Northern Ireland who see themselves as Irish that their wishes are of no importance - especially when it is all being done to keep the DUP onside.RobD said:
The EU is the only thing holding NI back from more bloodshed? OK.logical_song said:
I think the point you're missing is that the Good Friday Agreement which brought the violence (almost) to an end, was made easier by the fact that Eire and the UK were both in the EU.RobD said:
Where's the stirring up of the prospects of violence? Or does any border automatically mean violence these days?williamglenn said:
And Boris Johnson.Alanbrooke said:
It's not often I agree with Sammy Wilson but he has a point.CarlottaVance said:
A man who reveals the contents of a private conversation is to be trusted is he?HYUFD said:Varadkar says May has privately conceded to him the backstop cannot have a time limit
Leo is getting desperate.....
"First of all he knows just how some of the republican madmen in NI will react to the false fears he is stirring up about barriers along the border. Indeed he knows that they will use them to influence stupid and easily led young people to join their ranks"
the only people stirring up the prospects of violence are Varadkar and Coveney
http://uk.businessinsider.com/leaked-boris-johnson-letter-brexit-hard-irish-border-2018-2/0 -
lucky them, We got Francois Hollande the walking blancmange.williamglenn said:
May did try to turn Brexit into an issue in their election by publishing an op-ed on the day of the vote in the German press.Alanbrooke said:
yes, but do the German voters understand the consequences of their decisions ? Have the downsides been fully explained to them ? Surely this is just nationalist politicians stirring up shit for a foreigh country.williamglenn said:
We need a second poll0 -
Mr. Foremain, sorry, missed your post before, hence tardy reply.
I think the behaviour of some ex-Remain campaigners makes that more difficult. There have been accusations of them effectively batting for the other side against their own country, which means that for Leave supporters to perform a volte face rewards intransigence and reluctance to enforce a democratic decision.
I do think things are going very poorly. That's due to a cocktail of May's capitulation and incompetence, and the EU's faithless and obstinate approach (to reach a deal we need to annex Northern Ireland into the customs union is a rancid position to adopt).
There are problems with every option. Suppose we have a referendum and still choose to leave. What's resolved? Remain types won't accept it. If we have a referendum and choose to stay (assuming that's even possible) the message will be loud and clear: the electorate's opinion counts if they agree with the political class and, if not, they'll be given another chance to provide the 'right' answer.
However, we shouldn't let the current situation blind us to the past one, or the counterfactual (in which no referendum had been held). The political class has been dragging us without democratic consent ever closer into the EU's clutches. They've broken manifesto pledges to hold a referendum before. The UK electorate likes EU economics, dislikes EU politics, and was promised a vote on Lisbon.
Dissolving the democratic frog in bureaucratic hot water is not a good situation.
Edited extra bit: sorry, bit rambly.
You can make a case for another vote. But I think people who single-mindedly advocate that dramatically underestimate the profoundly negative consequences for the body politic in this country.
I outlined some years ago a route to the far right rising in this country (the far left, alas, already owns Labour). Asking the people what they want to do about the EU, then running another referendum with the options of An Incredibly Poor Deal and Remain, would be a wonderful way to disenchant swathes of the electorate and persuade them no established party will take them seriously.0 -
Hunt effectively said the same on R4 this morning, apparently.HYUFD said:Varadkar says May has privately conceded to him the backstop cannot have a time limit
https://mobile.twitter.com/Stone_SkyNews/status/1052969763532627969
So it looks like she just needs to get it through Parliament and the Deal is done
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Indeed, polling shows most Northern Irish voters want to stay in the single market and customs union and that applies to Protestants and CatholicsSouthamObserver said:
Putting up barriers when they had previously been taken down is sending a very strong message to the large minority of people in Northern Ireland who see themselves as Irish that their wishes are of no importance - especially when it is all being done to keep the DUP onside.RobD said:
The EU is the only thing holding NI back from more bloodshed? OK.logical_song said:
I think the point you're missing is that the Good Friday Agreement which brought the violence (almost) to an end, was made easier by the fact that Eire and the UK were both in the EU.RobD said:
Where's the stirring up of the prospects of violence? Or does any border automatically mean violence these days?williamglenn said:
And Boris Johnson.Alanbrooke said:
It's not often I agree with Sammy Wilson but he has a point.CarlottaVance said:
A man who reveals the contents of a private conversation is to be trusted is he?HYUFD said:Varadkar says May has privately conceded to him the backstop cannot have a time limit
Leo is getting desperate.....
"First of all he knows just how some of the republican madmen in NI will react to the false fears he is stirring up about barriers along the border. Indeed he knows that they will use them to influence stupid and easily led young people to join their ranks"
the only people stirring up the prospects of violence are Varadkar and Coveney
http://uk.businessinsider.com/leaked-boris-johnson-letter-brexit-hard-irish-border-2018-2/
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-northern-ireland-441624700 -
oh certainly there are sleepless dogs but you dont want the pack getting bigger. Currently policing is just about able to stay on top on the nutters theyre watching so egging more of them on is lunacyTOPPING said:
You accept there are sleepless dogs. Whether they get their fingers burned (a lot of metaphors here) is a different issue.Alanbrooke said:
well as I have said to you before the paddy posh boys are playing with fire and they will eventually get their fingers burned. The Irish government is made up of blokes in their thirties who think they can do no wrong. Older heads would tell them not to poke the sleeping dogs.TOPPING said:
The "IRA" might have.Alanbrooke said:
no it was made because the IRA had lost the will to continue, Easier borders were simply an issue to help de escalate tensions. The EU had very little to do with it.logical_song said:
I think the point you're missing is that the Good Friday Agreement which brought the violence (almost) to an end, was made easier by the fact that Eire and the UK were both in the EU.RobD said:
Where's the stirring up of the prospects of violence? Or does any border automatically mean violence these days?williamglenn said:
And Boris Johnson.Alanbrooke said:
It's not often I agree with Sammy Wilson but he has a point.CarlottaVance said:
A man who reveals the contents of a private conversation is to be trusted is he?HYUFD said:Varadkar says May has privately conceded to him the backstop cannot have a time limit
Leo is getting desperate.....
"First of all he knows just how some of the republican madmen in NI will react to the false fears he is stirring up about barriers along the border. Indeed he knows that they will use them to influence stupid and easily led young people to join their ranks"
the only people stirring up the prospects of violence are Varadkar and Coveney
http://uk.businessinsider.com/leaked-boris-johnson-letter-brexit-hard-irish-border-2018-2/0 -
If they categorically do not want barriers they would accept the backstop.Alanbrooke said:
The DUP have categorically said they dont want barriers either so how is it their wish ?SouthamObserver said:
Putting up barriers when they had previously been taken down is sending a very strong message to the large minority of people in Northern Ireland who see themselves as Irish that their wishes are of no importance - especially when it is all being done to keep the DUP onside.RobD said:
The EU is the only thing holding NI back from more bloodshed? OK.logical_song said:
I think the point you're missing is that the Good Friday Agreement which brought the violence (almost) to an end, was made easier by the fact that Eire and the UK were both in the EU.RobD said:
Where's the stirring up of the prospects of violence? Or does any border automatically mean violence these days?williamglenn said:
And Boris Johnson.Alanbrooke said:
It's not often I agree with Sammy Wilson but he has a point.CarlottaVance said:
A man who reveals the contents of a private conversation is to be trusted is he?HYUFD said:Varadkar says May has privately conceded to him the backstop cannot have a time limit
Leo is getting desperate.....
"First of all he knows just how some of the republican madmen in NI will react to the false fears he is stirring up about barriers along the border. Indeed he knows that they will use them to influence stupid and easily led young people to join their ranks"
the only people stirring up the prospects of violence are Varadkar and Coveney
http://uk.businessinsider.com/leaked-boris-johnson-letter-brexit-hard-irish-border-2018-2/
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We created the issue, not the EU.RobD said:
Not sure why the EU are so intent on there being a border then. Boggles the mind.SouthamObserver said:
Putting up barriers when they had previously been taken down is sending a very strong message to the large minority of people in Northern Ireland who see themselves as Irish that their wishes are of no importance - especially when it is all being done to keep the DUP onside.RobD said:
The EU is the only thing holding NI back from more bloodshed? OK.logical_song said:
I think the point you're missing is that the Good Friday Agreement which brought the violence (almost) to an end, was made easier by the fact that Eire and the UK were both in the EU.RobD said:
Where's the stirring up of the prospects of violence? Or does any border automatically mean violence these days?williamglenn said:
And Boris Johnson.Alanbrooke said:
It's not often I agree with Sammy Wilson but he has a point.CarlottaVance said:
A man who reveals the contents of a private conversation is to be trusted is he?HYUFD said:Varadkar says May has privately conceded to him the backstop cannot have a time limit
Leo is getting desperate.....
"First of all he knows just how some of the republican madmen in NI will react to the false fears he is stirring up about barriers along the border. Indeed he knows that they will use them to influence stupid and easily led young people to join their ranks"
the only people stirring up the prospects of violence are Varadkar and Coveney
http://uk.businessinsider.com/leaked-boris-johnson-letter-brexit-hard-irish-border-2018-2/
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The author of that abject humiliation is Theresa May, and it is time for her to go.Nigel_Foremain said:
Mr Dancer, though I think it is likely you voted differently to me in the referendum, I always respect your thoughtful posts, which though sometimes I disagree with, are often insightful. Do you think now might be the time for the more thoughtful of Leavers to be asking whether the self-inflicted national humiliation that we are experiencing, and will continue to experience, is worth it?Morris_Dancer said:Mr. HYUFD, no time limit makes it worse than EU membership. We can't leave without their consent, we have to abide by EU rules, and concede to regulatory annexation of UK territory to appease a foreign power.
Capitulation, as predicted. We'll see whether the DUP/Conservative front- and backbenchers who stopped the nonsense before can do so again.
Worth recalling that Richard II was brought low by a coalition but managed to reduce it over time, establishing a new tyranny that would've endured had he not let Henry Bolingbroke slip his grasp.0 -
Perhaps if it didn’t involve the erection of barriers between GB and NI. Suspect the DUP care a bit more about that.SouthamObserver said:
If they categorically do not want barriers they would accept the backstop.Alanbrooke said:
The DUP have categorically said they dont want barriers either so how is it their wish ?SouthamObserver said:
Putting up barriers when they had previously been taken down is sending a very strong message to the large minority of people in Northern Ireland who see themselves as Irish that their wishes are of no importance - especially when it is all being done to keep the DUP onside.RobD said:
The EU is the only thing holding NI back from more bloodshed? OK.logical_song said:
I think the point you're missing is that the Good Friday Agreement which brought the violence (almost) to an end, was made easier by the fact that Eire and the UK were both in the EU.RobD said:
Where's the stirring up of the prospects of violence? Or does any border automatically mean violence these days?williamglenn said:
And Boris Johnson.Alanbrooke said:
It's not often I agree with Sammy Wilson but he has a point.CarlottaVance said:
A man who reveals the contents of a private conversation is to be trusted is he?HYUFD said:Varadkar says May has privately conceded to him the backstop cannot have a time limit
Leo is getting desperate.....
"First of all he knows just how some of the republican madmen in NI will react to the false fears he is stirring up about barriers along the border. Indeed he knows that they will use them to influence stupid and easily led young people to join their ranks"
the only people stirring up the prospects of violence are Varadkar and Coveney
http://uk.businessinsider.com/leaked-boris-johnson-letter-brexit-hard-irish-border-2018-2/0 -
Yes it looks like the Deal has been done in private, they just have to make the preparation to take it public and get it through Parliament and see off the ERG attempt to topple MaySouthamObserver said:
Hunt effectively said the same on R4 this morning, apparently.HYUFD said:Varadkar says May has privately conceded to him the backstop cannot have a time limit
https://mobile.twitter.com/Stone_SkyNews/status/1052969763532627969
So it looks like she just needs to get it through Parliament and the Deal is done0 -
I am sure that Toyota would be delighted if the UK implements unilateral free trade in response to No Deal Brexit. Not only would there be no impact at all on parts coming into the UK from the EU, but since over 60% of parts for UK manufacturers come from outside the EU they will benefit from the elimination of tariffs on these parts as well.HYUFD said:
Hopefully Archer might take noteCyclefree said:
Well, he probably feels it necessary to get it across to the dunderheads in government.Recidivist said:
Well I have no idea about Faisal's track record, but in this tweet at least he has found something that we would all do well to take notice of.Floater said:
Hope Faisal checked his facts this time - he has made some howlers over brexit claims recently.Scott_P said:
"If no withdrawal agreement is reached and the transition period through December 2020 is consequently not implemented, corporate activities and consumers will be adversely affected by the impacts of suspended production activities resulting from failed just-in-time logistics operations, declines in revenue, and revised vehicle sales prices caused by spiralling logistics and production costs."
That is pretty strong language for the head of a trade association to be using.
If the EU decide to implement tariffs against the UK then the obvious response will be for Toyota to move their EU operations over here.
It is a shame that Pigmy May has already told business that has intends to continue to implement the EU tariff schedule after a no deal Brexit which is why they are justifiably worried.
Luckily, May will not be PM for long and the measures necessary to implement a successful no deal Brexit can be put in place.0 -
or they wouild tell the Irish government to stop being prats and work on a solutionSouthamObserver said:
If they categorically do not want barriers they would accept the backstop.Alanbrooke said:
The DUP have categorically said they dont want barriers either so how is it their wish ?SouthamObserver said:
Putting up barriers when they had previously been taken down is sending a very strong message to the large minority of people in Northern Ireland who see themselves as Irish that their wishes are of no importance - especially when it is all being done to keep the DUP onside.RobD said:
The EU is the only thing holding NI back from more bloodshed? OK.logical_song said:
I think the point you're missing is that the Good Friday Agreement which brought the violence (almost) to an end, was made easier by the fact that Eire and the UK were both in the EU.RobD said:
Where's the stirring up of the prospects of violence? Or does any border automatically mean violence these days?williamglenn said:
And Boris Johnson.Alanbrooke said:
It's not often I agree with Sammy Wilson but he has a point.CarlottaVance said:
A man who reveals the contents of a private conversation is to be trusted is he?HYUFD said:Varadkar says May has privately conceded to him the backstop cannot have a time limit
Leo is getting desperate.....
"First of all he knows just how some of the republican madmen in NI will react to the false fears he is stirring up about barriers along the border. Indeed he knows that they will use them to influence stupid and easily led young people to join their ranks"
the only people stirring up the prospects of violence are Varadkar and Coveney
http://uk.businessinsider.com/leaked-boris-johnson-letter-brexit-hard-irish-border-2018-2/0 -
Or they would tell the British government to stop being prats and stop Brexit.Alanbrooke said:
or they wouild tell the Irish government to stop being prats and work on a solutionSouthamObserver said:
If they categorically do not want barriers they would accept the backstop.Alanbrooke said:
The DUP have categorically said they dont want barriers either so how is it their wish ?SouthamObserver said:
Putting up barriers when they had previously been taken down is sending a very strong message to the large minority of people in Northern Ireland who see themselves as Irish that their wishes are of no importance - especially when it is all being done to keep the DUP onside.RobD said:
The EU is the only thing holding NI back from more bloodshed? OK.logical_song said:
I think the point you're missing is that the Good Friday Agreement which brought the violence (almost) to an end, was made easier by the fact that Eire and the UK were both in the EU.RobD said:
Where's the stirring up of the prospects of violence? Or does any border automatically mean violence these days?williamglenn said:
And Boris Johnson.Alanbrooke said:
It's not often I agree with Sammy Wilson but he has a point.CarlottaVance said:
A man who reveals the contents of a private conversation is to be trusted is he?HYUFD said:Varadkar says May has privately conceded to him the backstop cannot have a time limit
Leo is getting desperate.....
"First of all he knows just how some of the republican madmen in NI will react to the false fears he is stirring up about barriers along the border. Indeed he knows that they will use them to influence stupid and easily led young people to join their ranks"
the only people stirring up the prospects of violence are Varadkar and Coveney
http://uk.businessinsider.com/leaked-boris-johnson-letter-brexit-hard-irish-border-2018-2/0 -
The DUP might care about the percentage of Catholics in NI backing a United Ireland rising from less than 30% to over 50% if a hard borderRobD said:
Perhaps if it didn’t involve the erection of barriers between GB and NI. Suspect the DUP care a bit more about that.SouthamObserver said:
If they categorically do not want barriers they would accept the backstop.Alanbrooke said:
The DUP have categorically said they dont want barriers either so how is it their wish ?SouthamObserver said:
Putting up barriers when they had previously been taken down is sending a very strong message to the large minority of people in Northern Ireland who see themselves as Irish that their wishes are of no importance - especially when it is all being done to keep the DUP onside.RobD said:
The EU is the only thing holding NI back from more bloodshed? OK.logical_song said:
I think the point you're missing is that the Good Friday Agreement which brought the violence (almost) to an end, was made easier by the fact that Eire and the UK were both in the EU.RobD said:
Where's the stirring up of the prospects of violence? Or does any border automatically mean violence these days?williamglenn said:
And Boris Johnson.Alanbrooke said:
It's not often I agree with Sammy Wilson but he has a point.CarlottaVance said:
A man who reveals the contents of a private conversation is to be trusted is he?HYUFD said:Varadkar says May has privately conceded to him the backstop cannot have a time limit
Leo is getting desperate.....
"First of all he knows just how some of the republican madmen in NI will react to the false fears he is stirring up about barriers along the border. Indeed he knows that they will use them to influence stupid and easily led young people to join their ranks"
the only people stirring up the prospects of violence are Varadkar and Coveney
http://uk.businessinsider.com/leaked-boris-johnson-letter-brexit-hard-irish-border-2018-2/
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-northern-ireland-441624700 -
Ignoring the decision to leave?williamglenn said:
Or they would tell the British government to stop being prats and stop Brexit.Alanbrooke said:
or they wouild tell the Irish government to stop being prats and work on a solutionSouthamObserver said:
If they categorically do not want barriers they would accept the backstop.Alanbrooke said:
The DUP have categorically said they dont want barriers either so how is it their wish ?SouthamObserver said:
Putting up barriers when they had previously been taken down is sending a very strong message to the large minority of people in Northern Ireland who see themselves as Irish that their wishes are of no importance - especially when it is all being done to keep the DUP onside.RobD said:
The EU is the only thing holding NI back from more bloodshed? OK.logical_song said:
I think the point you're missing is that the Good Friday Agreement which brought the violence (almost) to an end, was made easier by the fact that Eire and the UK were both in the EU.RobD said:
Where's the stirring up of the prospects of violence? Or does any border automatically mean violence these days?williamglenn said:
And Boris Johnson.Alanbrooke said:
It's not often I agree with Sammy Wilson but he has a point.CarlottaVance said:
A man who reveals the contents of a private conversation is to be trusted is he?HYUFD said:Varadkar says May has privately conceded to him the backstop cannot have a time limit
Leo is getting desperate.....
"First of all he knows just how some of the republican madmen in NI will react to the false fears he is stirring up about barriers along the border. Indeed he knows that they will use them to influence stupid and easily led young people to join their ranks"
the only people stirring up the prospects of violence are Varadkar and Coveney
http://uk.businessinsider.com/leaked-boris-johnson-letter-brexit-hard-irish-border-2018-2/0 -
No, the UK's line is that we would be content for there to be the most minimal of borders. The EU's line is that there has either to be the hardest of borders or that the border has to shift to elsewhere within the UK. It is an absurd and unreasonable position taken for base political motives and as such it is an artificial construct entirely of the EU's creation.SouthamObserver said:
We created the issue, not the EU.RobD said:
Not sure why the EU are so intent on there being a border then. Boggles the mind.SouthamObserver said:
Putting up barriers when they had previously been taken down is sending a very strong message to the large minority of people in Northern Ireland who see themselves as Irish that their wishes are of no importance - especially when it is all being done to keep the DUP onside.RobD said:
The EU is the only thing holding NI back from more bloodshed? OK.logical_song said:
I think the point you're missing is that the Good Friday Agreement which brought the violence (almost) to an end, was made easier by the fact that Eire and the UK were both in the EU.RobD said:
Where's the stirring up of the prospects of violence? Or does any border automatically mean violence these days?williamglenn said:
And Boris Johnson.Alanbrooke said:
It's not often I agree with Sammy Wilson but he has a point.CarlottaVance said:
A man who reveals the contents of a private conversation is to be trusted is he?HYUFD said:Varadkar says May has privately conceded to him the backstop cannot have a time limit
Leo is getting desperate.....
"First of all he knows just how some of the republican madmen in NI will react to the false fears he is stirring up about barriers along the border. Indeed he knows that they will use them to influence stupid and easily led young people to join their ranks"
the only people stirring up the prospects of violence are Varadkar and Coveney
http://uk.businessinsider.com/leaked-boris-johnson-letter-brexit-hard-irish-border-2018-2/0 -
Indeed - which takes me back to my original point.RobD said:
Perhaps if it didn’t involve the erection of barriers between GB and NI. Suspect the DUP care a bit more about that.SouthamObserver said:
If they categorically do not want barriers they would accept the backstop.Alanbrooke said:
The DUP have categorically said they dont want barriers either so how is it their wish ?SouthamObserver said:
Putting up barriers when they had previously been taken down is sending a very strong message to the large minority of people in Northern Ireland who see themselves as Irish that their wishes are of no importance - especially when it is all being done to keep the DUP onside.RobD said:
The EU is the only thing holding NI back from more bloodshed? OK.logical_song said:
I think the point you're missing is that the Good Friday Agreement which brought the violence (almost) to an end, was made easier by the fact that Eire and the UK were both in the EU.RobD said:
Where's the stirring up of the prospects of violence? Or does any border automatically mean violence these days?williamglenn said:
And Boris Johnson.Alanbrooke said:
It's not often I agree with Sammy Wilson but he has a point.CarlottaVance said:
A man who reveals the contents of a private conversation is to be trusted is he?HYUFD said:Varadkar says May has privately conceded to him the backstop cannot have a time limit
Leo is getting desperate.....
"First of all he knows just how some of the republican madmen in NI will react to the false fears he is stirring up about barriers along the border. Indeed he knows that they will use them to influence stupid and easily led young people to join their ranks"
the only people stirring up the prospects of violence are Varadkar and Coveney
http://uk.businessinsider.com/leaked-boris-johnson-letter-brexit-hard-irish-border-2018-2/
0 -
If you really think Toyota will move all their European operations here rather than the reverse if there are European tariffs then you are even more deluded than I thoughtarcher101au said:
I am sure that Toyota would be delighted if the UK implements unilateral free trade in response to No Deal Brexit. Not only would there be no impact at all on parts coming into the UK from the EU, but since over 60% of parts for UK manufacturers come from outside the EU they will benefit from the elimination of tariffs on these parts as well.HYUFD said:
Hopefully Archer might take noteCyclefree said:
Well, he probably feels it necessary to get it across to the dunderheads in government.Recidivist said:
Well I have no idea about Faisal's track record, but in this tweet at least he has found something that we would all do well to take notice of.Floater said:
Hope Faisal checked his facts this time - he has made some howlers over brexit claims recently.Scott_P said:
"If no withdrawal agreement is reached and the transition period through December 2020 is consequently not implemented, corporate activities and consumers will be adversely affected by the impacts of suspended production activities resulting from failed just-in-time logistics operations, declines in revenue, and revised vehicle sales prices caused by spiralling logistics and production costs."
That is pretty strong language for the head of a trade association to be using.
If the EU decide to implement tariffs against the UK then the obvious response will be for Toyota to move their EU operations over here.
It is a shame that Pigmy May has already told business that has intends to continue to implement the EU tariff schedule after a no deal Brexit which is why they are justifiably worried.
Luckily, May will not be PM for long and the measures necessary to implement a successful no deal Brexit can be put in place.0 -
This is a lie misunderstanding. The UK's line is that there can be no border infrastructure or checks and this is enshrined in the EU Withdrawal Act.Wulfrun_Phil said:
No, the UK's line is that we would be content for there to be the most minimal of borders.SouthamObserver said:
We created the issue, not the EU.RobD said:
Not sure why the EU are so intent on there being a border then. Boggles the mind.SouthamObserver said:
Putting up barriers when they had previously been taken down is sending a very strong message to the large minority of people in Northern Ireland who see themselves as Irish that their wishes are of no importance - especially when it is all being done to keep the DUP onside.RobD said:
The EU is the only thing holding NI back from more bloodshed? OK.logical_song said:
I think the point you're missing is that the Good Friday Agreement which brought the violence (almost) to an end, was made easier by the fact that Eire and the UK were both in the EU.RobD said:
Where's the stirring up of the prospects of violence? Or does any border automatically mean violence these days?williamglenn said:
And Boris Johnson.Alanbrooke said:
It's not often I agree with Sammy Wilson but he has a point.CarlottaVance said:
A man who reveals the contents of a private conversation is to be trusted is he?HYUFD said:Varadkar says May has privately conceded to him the backstop cannot have a time limit
Leo is getting desperate.....
"First of all he knows just how some of the republican madmen in NI will react to the false fears he is stirring up about barriers along the border. Indeed he knows that they will use them to influence stupid and easily led young people to join their ranks"
the only people stirring up the prospects of violence are Varadkar and Coveney
http://uk.businessinsider.com/leaked-boris-johnson-letter-brexit-hard-irish-border-2018-2/
You seem to be confusing the UK's line with the ERG's.0 -
On the Clegg appointment it is interesting that his predecessor as LD MP for Hallam, Richard Allan, is now a senior executive at Facebook.0
-
Well done you! Family matters.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm hoping to get a job on it.Alanbrooke said:
you;ll be dead before its publishedTheScreamingEagles said:
Great economic boost.Cyclefree said:
By “great boost” presumably they mean that there will be a great boost in the number of newspaper articles describing how Britain has cut itself off without any sort of deal or agreement on stuff like the import of food, medecines and the like, queues outside supermarkets, banks etc...? That sort of boost?TheScreamingEagles said:
You forget that there's a lot of Leavers in the Tory party who prefer/want a no deal Brexit.Cyclefree said:Is May really going to be left to push us off a cliff come next March, as now seems inevitable? Is no-one going to intervene?
On an unrelated note, I see that Anjem Choudary has been released today on licence, half-way through his sentence. And yet he has resolutely refused to go on any deradicalisation programmes. I would have thought, given what he was convicted for, going on one of those programmes should have been a condition for early release.
Christ: our rulers really are useless!
Some of them think moving to WTO will be a great boost for the country.
I'm really looking forward to the Brexit equivalent of the Chilcot Report.
Done something I've never done before.
Handed in my notice this morning without a job lined up.
And you can always do consultancy work in the meantime while you look for the right job.0 -
do you think they dont read opinion polls ?HYUFD said:
The DUP might care about the percentage of Catholics in NI backing a United Ireland rising from less than 30% to over 50% if a hard borderRobD said:
Perhaps if it didn’t involve the erection of barriers between GB and NI. Suspect the DUP care a bit more about that.SouthamObserver said:
If they categorically do not want barriers they would accept the backstop.Alanbrooke said:
The DUP have categorically said they dont want barriers either so how is it their wish ?SouthamObserver said:
Putting up barriers when they had previously been taken down is sending a very strong message to the large minority of people in Northern Ireland who see themselves as Irish that their wishes are of no importance - especially when it is all being done to keep the DUP onside.RobD said:
The EU is the only thing holding NI back from more bloodshed? OK.logical_song said:
I think the point you're missing is that the Good Friday Agreement which brought the violence (almost) to an end, was made easier by the fact that Eire and the UK were both in the EU.RobD said:
Where's the stirring up of the prospects of violence? Or does any border automatically mean violence these days?williamglenn said:
And Boris Johnson.Alanbrooke said:
It's not often I agree with Sammy Wilson but he has a point.CarlottaVance said:
A man who reveals the contents of a private conversation is to be trusted is he?HYUFD said:Varadkar says May has privately conceded to him the backstop cannot have a time limit
Leo is getting desperate.....
"First of all he knows just how some of the republican madmen in NI will react to the false fears he is stirring up about barriers along the border. Indeed he knows that they will use them to influence stupid and easily led young people to join their ranks"
the only people stirring up the prospects of violence are Varadkar and Coveney
http://uk.businessinsider.com/leaked-boris-johnson-letter-brexit-hard-irish-border-2018-2/
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-northern-ireland-441624700 -
Best thing I ever did was handing in my notice without anything to go to. Ended up travelling the globe - admittedly, sometimes with ex-SAS/Foreign Legion special forces close protection - for 25 years.....TheScreamingEagles said:
Thanks.Alanbrooke said:Wow brave move !
was it the prospect of Frankfurt ?
in any event wish you all the best in getting a new job quickly
Was looking at my 2019 schedule and realised money isn't everything. I'd rather earn a little bit less and spend more time with the family.
I'm hoping to get a job with a UK based financial institution so I can spend the next 6 months on gardening leave.
I was happy as a pig in a shite. I hope you'll be the same.
And hell, whatever - its go to to be better than Frankfurt.....0 -
The british government is largely here because Merkel wouldnt give Cameron the concessions on immigation the rest of Europe is quietly installingwilliamglenn said:
Or they would tell the British government to stop being prats and stop Brexit.Alanbrooke said:
or they wouild tell the Irish government to stop being prats and work on a solutionSouthamObserver said:
If they categorically do not want barriers they would accept the backstop.Alanbrooke said:
The DUP have categorically said they dont want barriers either so how is it their wish ?SouthamObserver said:
Putting up barriers when they had previously been taken down is sending a very strong message to the large minority of people in Northern Ireland who see themselves as Irish that their wishes are of no importance - especially when it is all being done to keep the DUP onside.RobD said:
The EU is the only thing holding NI back from more bloodshed? OK.logical_song said:
I think the point you're missing is that the Good Friday Agreement which brought the violence (almost) to an end, was made easier by the fact that Eire and the UK were both in the EU.RobD said:
Where's the stirring up of the prospects of violence? Or does any border automatically mean violence these days?williamglenn said:
And Boris Johnson.Alanbrooke said:
It's not often I agree with Sammy Wilson but he has a point.CarlottaVance said:
A man who reveals the contents of a private conversation is to be trusted is he?HYUFD said:Varadkar says May has privately conceded to him the backstop cannot have a time limit
Leo is getting desperate.....
"First of all he knows just how some of the republican madmen in NI will react to the false fears he is stirring up about barriers along the border. Indeed he knows that they will use them to influence stupid and easily led young people to join their ranks"
the only people stirring up the prospects of violence are Varadkar and Coveney
http://uk.businessinsider.com/leaked-boris-johnson-letter-brexit-hard-irish-border-2018-2/
The EU shot itself in the foot.0 -
In any border poll I'd expect 75% or so of Catholics to vote to leave the UK, and 95% or so of Protestants to vote the other way.HYUFD said:
The DUP might care about the percentage of Catholics in NI backing a United Ireland rising from less than 30% to over 50% if a hard borderRobD said:
Perhaps if it didn’t involve the erection of barriers between GB and NI. Suspect the DUP care a bit more about that.SouthamObserver said:
If they categorically do not want barriers they would accept the backstop.Alanbrooke said:
The DUP have categorically said they dont want barriers either so how is it their wish ?SouthamObserver said:
Putting up barriers when they had previously been taken down is sending a very strong message to the large minority of people in Northern Ireland who see themselves as Irish that their wishes are of no importance - especially when it is all being done to keep the DUP onside.RobD said:
The EU is the only thing holding NI back from more bloodshed? OK.logical_song said:
I think the point you're missing is that the Good Friday Agreement which brought the violence (almost) to an end, was made easier by the fact that Eire and the UK were both in the EU.RobD said:
Where's the stirring up of the prospects of violence? Or does any border automatically mean violence these days?williamglenn said:
And Boris Johnson.Alanbrooke said:
It's not often I agree with Sammy Wilson but he has a point.CarlottaVance said:
A man who reveals the contents of a private conversation is to be trusted is he?HYUFD said:Varadkar says May has privately conceded to him the backstop cannot have a time limit
Leo is getting desperate.....
"First of all he knows just how some of the republican madmen in NI will react to the false fears he is stirring up about barriers along the border. Indeed he knows that they will use them to influence stupid and easily led young people to join their ranks"
the only people stirring up the prospects of violence are Varadkar and Coveney
http://uk.businessinsider.com/leaked-boris-johnson-letter-brexit-hard-irish-border-2018-2/
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-northern-ireland-441624700 -
-
"Merkel Movement" does seem to require a micrometer to measure.....Alanbrooke said:
The british government is largely here because Merkel wouldnt give Cameron the concessions on immigation the rest of Europe is quietly installingwilliamglenn said:
Or they would tell the British government to stop being prats and stop Brexit.Alanbrooke said:
or they wouild tell the Irish government to stop being prats and work on a solutionSouthamObserver said:
If they categorically do not want barriers they would accept the backstop.Alanbrooke said:
The DUP have categorically said they dont want barriers either so how is it their wish ?SouthamObserver said:
Putting up barriers when they had previously been taken down is sending a very strong message to the large minority of people in Northern Ireland who see themselves as Irish that their wishes are of no importance - especially when it is all being done to keep the DUP onside.RobD said:
The EU is the only thing holding NI back from more bloodshed? OK.logical_song said:
I think the point you're missing is that the Good Friday Agreement which brought the violence (almost) to an end, was made easier by the fact that Eire and the UK were both in the EU.RobD said:
Where's the stirring up of the prospects of violence? Or does any border automatically mean violence these days?williamglenn said:
And Boris Johnson.Alanbrooke said:
It's not often I agree with Sammy Wilson but he has a point.CarlottaVance said:
A man who reveals the contents of a private conversation is to be trusted is he?HYUFD said:Varadkar says May has privately conceded to him the backstop cannot have a time limit
Leo is getting desperate.....
"First of all he knows just how some of the republican madmen in NI will react to the false fears he is stirring up about barriers along the border. Indeed he knows that they will use them to influence stupid and easily led young people to join their ranks"
the only people stirring up the prospects of violence are Varadkar and Coveney
http://uk.businessinsider.com/leaked-boris-johnson-letter-brexit-hard-irish-border-2018-2/
The EU shot itself in the foot.0 -
As we know, the Bucanneers know more about manufacturing cars than car manufacturers, more about the life sciences industry than pharma companies, more about running lorry fleets than transportation businesses and more about food production than the supermarkets.HYUFD said:
If you really think Toyota will move all their European operations here rather than the reverse if there are European tariffs then you are even more deluded than I thoughtarcher101au said:
I am sure that Toyota would be delighted if the UK implements unilateral free trade in response to No Deal Brexit. Not only would there be no impact at all on parts coming into the UK from the EU, but since over 60% of parts for UK manufacturers come from outside the EU they will benefit from the elimination of tariffs on these parts as well.HYUFD said:
Hopefully Archer might take noteCyclefree said:
Well, he probably feels it necessary to get it across to the dunderheads in government.Recidivist said:
Well I have no idea about Faisal's track record, but in this tweet at least he has found something that we would all do well to take notice of.Floater said:
Hope Faisal checked his facts this time - he has made some howlers over brexit claims recently.Scott_P said:
"If no withdrawal agreement is reached and the transition period through December 2020 is consequently not implemented, corporate activities and consumers will be adversely affected by the impacts of suspended production activities resulting from failed just-in-time logistics operations, declines in revenue, and revised vehicle sales prices caused by spiralling logistics and production costs."
That is pretty strong language for the head of a trade association to be using.
If the EU decide to implement tariffs against the UK then the obvious response will be for Toyota to move their EU operations over here.
It is a shame that Pigmy May has already told business that has intends to continue to implement the EU tariff schedule after a no deal Brexit which is why they are justifiably worried.
Luckily, May will not be PM for long and the measures necessary to implement a successful no deal Brexit can be put in place.
0 -
At this point, I think the UK needs to spend a lot less time worrying about how it got into this mess, and start trying to find a way out.
We'll have a lifetime to repent at our leisure about why we let the Tories deceive us into a botched Brexit.0 -
0
-
Mr. Cocque, plenty of Labour supporters voted to leave the EU as well. Pretending it was the evil, baby-eating Tories is wrong (and unnecessary, as you can legitimately blame May's incompetence and capitulation for much of the present woe).-1
-
Are you really that ill-informed? Which "concessions on immigation the rest of Europe is quietly installing"? Free movement within the EU isn't under threat anywhere.Alanbrooke said:
The british government is largely here because Merkel wouldnt give Cameron the concessions on immigation the rest of Europe is quietly installingwilliamglenn said:
Or they would tell the British government to stop being prats and stop Brexit.Alanbrooke said:
or they wouild tell the Irish government to stop being prats and work on a solutionSouthamObserver said:
If they categorically do not want barriers they would accept the backstop.Alanbrooke said:
The DUP have categorically said they dont want barriers either so how is it their wish ?SouthamObserver said:
Putting up barriers when they had previously been taken down is sending a very strong message to the large minority of people in Northern Ireland who see themselves as Irish that their wishes are of no importance - especially when it is all being done to keep the DUP onside.RobD said:
The EU is the only thing holding NI back from more bloodshed? OK.logical_song said:
I think the point you're missing is that the Good Friday Agreement which brought the violence (almost) to an end, was made easier by the fact that Eire and the UK were both in the EU.RobD said:
Where's the stirring up of the prospects of violence? Or does any border automatically mean violence these days?williamglenn said:
And Boris Johnson.Alanbrooke said:
It's not often I agree with Sammy Wilson but he has a point.CarlottaVance said:
A man who reveals the contents of a private conversation is to be trusted is he?HYUFD said:Varadkar says May has privately conceded to him the backstop cannot have a time limit
Leo is getting desperate.....
"First of all he knows just how some of the republican madmen in NI will react to the false fears he is stirring up about barriers along the border. Indeed he knows that they will use them to influence stupid and easily led young people to join their ranks"
the only people stirring up the prospects of violence are Varadkar and Coveney
http://uk.businessinsider.com/leaked-boris-johnson-letter-brexit-hard-irish-border-2018-2/
The EU shot itself in the foot.0 -
I seem to recall the tories saying vote nograbcocque said:At this point, I think the UK needs to spend a lot less time worrying about how it got into this mess, and start trying to find a way out.
We'll have a lifetime to repent at our leisure about why we let the Tories deceive us into a botched Brexit.
Labour leadership were in truth strangely silent on the issue.0 -
If the UK implemented unilateral free trade Toyota would put out of business, as would most other manufacturing industries. All our cars would be imported from China and other low-cost producers in the Far East. Unilateral free trade is the loopiest of the many loopy fantasies to be found amongst Brexiteers diehards.archer101au said:
I am sure that Toyota would be delighted if the UK implements unilateral free trade in response to No Deal Brexit. Not only would there be no impact at all on parts coming into the UK from the EU, but since over 60% of parts for UK manufacturers come from outside the EU they will benefit from the elimination of tariffs on these parts as well.HYUFD said:
Hopefully Archer might take noteCyclefree said:
Well, he probably feels it necessary to get it across to the dunderheads in government.Recidivist said:
Well I have no idea about Faisal's track record, but in this tweet at least he has found something that we would all do well to take notice of.Floater said:
Hope Faisal checked his facts this time - he has made some howlers over brexit claims recently.Scott_P said:
"If no withdrawal agreement is reached and the transition period through December 2020 is consequently not implemented, corporate activities and consumers will be adversely affected by the impacts of suspended production activities resulting from failed just-in-time logistics operations, declines in revenue, and revised vehicle sales prices caused by spiralling logistics and production costs."
That is pretty strong language for the head of a trade association to be using.
If the EU decide to implement tariffs against the UK then the obvious response will be for Toyota to move their EU operations over here.
It is a shame that Pigmy May has already told business that has intends to continue to implement the EU tariff schedule after a no deal Brexit which is why they are justifiably worried.
Luckily, May will not be PM for long and the measures necessary to implement a successful no deal Brexit can be put in place.0 -
Of course no one on the remain side is guilty of such a thing.....SouthamObserver said:
As we know, the Bucanneers know more about manufacturing cars than car manufacturers, more about the life sciences industry than pharma companies, more about running lorry fleets than transportation businesses and more about food production than the supermarkets.HYUFD said:
If you really think Toyota will move all their European operations here rather than the reverse if there are European tariffs then you are even more deluded than I thoughtarcher101au said:
I am sure that Toyota would be delighted if the UK implements unilateral free trade in response to No Deal Brexit. Not only would there be no impact at all on parts coming into the UK from the EU, but since over 60% of parts for UK manufacturers come from outside the EU they will benefit from the elimination of tariffs on these parts as well.HYUFD said:
Hopefully Archer might take noteCyclefree said:
Well, he probably feels it necessary to get it across to the dunderheads in government.Recidivist said:
Well I have no idea about Faisal's track record, but in this tweet at least he has found something that we would all do well to take notice of.Floater said:
Hope Faisal checked his facts this time - he has made some howlers over brexit claims recently.Scott_P said:
"If no withdrawal agreement is reached and the transition period through December 2020 is consequently not implemented, corporate activities and consumers will be adversely affected by the impacts of suspended production activities resulting from failed just-in-time logistics operations, declines in revenue, and revised vehicle sales prices caused by spiralling logistics and production costs."
That is pretty strong language for the head of a trade association to be using.
If the EU decide to implement tariffs against the UK then the obvious response will be for Toyota to move their EU operations over here.
It is a shame that Pigmy May has already told business that has intends to continue to implement the EU tariff schedule after a no deal Brexit which is why they are justifiably worried.
Luckily, May will not be PM for long and the measures necessary to implement a successful no deal Brexit can be put in place.
0 -
nice attempt William but I do read the European press lot more than you dowilliamglenn said:
Are you really that ill-informed? Which "concessions on immigation the rest of Europe is quietly installing"? Free movement within the EU isn't under threat anywhere.Alanbrooke said:
The british government is largely here because Merkel wouldnt give Cameron the concessions on immigation the rest of Europe is quietly installingwilliamglenn said:
Or they would tell the British government to stop being prats and stop Brexit.Alanbrooke said:
or they wouild tell the Irish government to stop being prats and work on a solutionSouthamObserver said:
If they categorically do not want barriers they would accept the backstop.Alanbrooke said:
The DUP have categorically said they dont want barriers either so how is it their wish ?SouthamObserver said:
Putting up barriers when they had previously been taken down is sending a very strong message to the large minority of people in Northern Ireland who see themselves as Irish that their wishes are of no importance - especially when it is all being done to keep the DUP onside.RobD said:
The EU is the only thing holding NI back from more bloodshed? OK.logical_song said:
I think the point you're missing is that the Good Friday Agreement which brought the violence (almost) to an end, was made easier by the fact that Eire and the UK were both in the EU.RobD said:
Where's the stirring up of the prospects of violence? Or does any border automatically mean violence these days?williamglenn said:
And Boris Johnson.Alanbrooke said:
It's not often I agree with Sammy Wilson but he has a point.CarlottaVance said:
A man who reveals the contents of a private conversation is to be trusted is he?HYUFD said:Varadkar says May has privately conceded to him the backstop cannot have a time limit
Leo is getting desperate.....
"First of all he knows just how some of the republican madmen in NI will react to the false fears he is stirring up about barriers along the border. Indeed he knows that they will use them to influence stupid and easily led young people to join their ranks"
the only people stirring up the prospects of violence are Varadkar and Coveney
http://uk.businessinsider.com/leaked-boris-johnson-letter-brexit-hard-irish-border-2018-2/
The EU shot itself in the foot.0 -
Look - you only respect the wishes of the people if they vote the way you want.RobD said:
Ignoring the decision to leave?williamglenn said:
Or they would tell the British government to stop being prats and stop Brexit.Alanbrooke said:
or they wouild tell the Irish government to stop being prats and work on a solutionSouthamObserver said:
If they categorically do not want barriers they would accept the backstop.Alanbrooke said:
The DUP have categorically said they dont want barriers either so how is it their wish ?SouthamObserver said:
Putting up barriers when they had previously been taken down is sending a very strong message to the large minority of people in Northern Ireland who see themselves as Irish that their wishes are of no importance - especially when it is all being done to keep the DUP onside.RobD said:
The EU is the only thing holding NI back from more bloodshed? OK.logical_song said:
I think the point you're missing is that the Good Friday Agreement which brought the violence (almost) to an end, was made easier by the fact that Eire and the UK were both in the EU.RobD said:
Where's the stirring up of the prospects of violence? Or does any border automatically mean violence these days?williamglenn said:
And Boris Johnson.Alanbrooke said:
It's not often I agree with Sammy Wilson but he has a point.CarlottaVance said:
A man who reveals the contents of a private conversation is to be trusted is he?HYUFD said:Varadkar says May has privately conceded to him the backstop cannot have a time limit
Leo is getting desperate.....
"First of all he knows just how some of the republican madmen in NI will react to the false fears he is stirring up about barriers along the border. Indeed he knows that they will use them to influence stupid and easily led young people to join their ranks"
the only people stirring up the prospects of violence are Varadkar and Coveney
http://uk.businessinsider.com/leaked-boris-johnson-letter-brexit-hard-irish-border-2018-2/
Actually, it seems to be enshrined EU procedure judging from history0 -
The ONS is simply not fit for purpose. As I have been saying on here for years Britain is booming, there is zero unemployment and I would guess growth has been around 3-4% a year for at least the last five years, despite of course the economy being run by the worst government in history.DavidL said:From the ONS report on borrowing this morning:
"Receipts in September 2018 increased by 3.2% compared with September 2017, to £56.4 billion, while total expenditure increased by 2.8% to £59.4 billion.
Much of the annual growth in receipts came from Value Added Tax (VAT), Income Tax and National Insurance contributions, while other taxes such as duties on both tobacco and Stamp Duty (on land and properties) have fallen marginally on September 2017."
I mean, what is it going to take for us to rebase our growth figures? Its getting silly.0 -
You think that they are out by a factor of two?currystar said:
The ONS is simply not fit for purpose. As I have been saying on here for years Britain is booming, there is zero unemployment and I would guess growth has been around 3-4% a year for at least the last five years, despite of course the economy being run by the worst government in history.DavidL said:From the ONS report on borrowing this morning:
"Receipts in September 2018 increased by 3.2% compared with September 2017, to £56.4 billion, while total expenditure increased by 2.8% to £59.4 billion.
Much of the annual growth in receipts came from Value Added Tax (VAT), Income Tax and National Insurance contributions, while other taxes such as duties on both tobacco and Stamp Duty (on land and properties) have fallen marginally on September 2017."
I mean, what is it going to take for us to rebase our growth figures? Its getting silly.0 -
A curious assertion.Alanbrooke said:nice attempt William but I do read the European press lot more than you do
0 -
Yes, but most of the actual big lies, the clinchers shall we say, came from Tories. It wasn't Labour who told me we'd be able to spend 350 million a week on the NHS. It wasn't Labour who told us "absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the single market" or said that no deal wouldn't happen, that it'd be the easiest deal ever, etc. etc.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Cocque, plenty of Labour supporters voted to leave the EU as well. Pretending it was the evil, baby-eating Tories is wrong (and unnecessary, as you can legitimately blame May's incompetence and capitulation for much of the present woe).
The Tories told all the biggest and most important lies.
And now, the actual botching of the botched Brexit belongs to, will always belong to, the Tories.
The Tories will be, for the remainder of posterity, the party that lied about Brexit, and then completely fucking botched it. Labour won't.0 -
And yet we are lagging behind our peers.currystar said:
The ONS is simply not fit for purpose. As I have been saying on here for years Britain is booming, there is zero unemployment and I would guess growth has been around 3-4% a year for at least the last five years, despite of course the economy being run by the worst government in history.DavidL said:From the ONS report on borrowing this morning:
"Receipts in September 2018 increased by 3.2% compared with September 2017, to £56.4 billion, while total expenditure increased by 2.8% to £59.4 billion.
Much of the annual growth in receipts came from Value Added Tax (VAT), Income Tax and National Insurance contributions, while other taxes such as duties on both tobacco and Stamp Duty (on land and properties) have fallen marginally on September 2017."
I mean, what is it going to take for us to rebase our growth figures? Its getting silly.
https://fullfact.org/economy/uk-economic-growth-within-g7/0 -
Been watching a few episodes of 'Shark Tank', the US version of 'Dragon's Den'. Their attitude to business is so different to ours. I'm finding it almost difficult to comprehend. It seems to come so naturally to them. They also talk much bigger numbers. Their 'Sharks' have no problem casually throwing down a million dollar investment offer on the table.
It's fascinating.0 -
Wasn't he filing the High Court? or was that his trial? I don't recallSean_F said:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-45918845
Is this the trial Tommy Robinson was trying to film?0 -
Thank you for your response. Where we are in agreement is that a rerun of the original vote would not be a good thing. My question though was, has it been worth it? No offence, but you gave me a bit of a politician's answer. The supplementary question has to be, if it was worth it, what are we actually going to gain in return for the pain (cutting through the naïve propaganda)?Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Foremain, sorry, missed your post before, hence tardy reply.
I think the behaviour of some ex-Remain campaigners makes that more difficult. There have been accusations of them effectively batting for the other side against their own country, which means that for Leave supporters to perform a volte face rewards intransigence and reluctance to enforce a democratic decision.
I do think things are going very poorly. That's due to a cocktail of May's capitulation and incompetence, and the EU's faithless and obstinate approach (to reach a deal we need to annex Northern Ireland into the customs union is a rancid position to adopt).
There are problems with every option. Suppose we have a referendum and still choose to leave. What's resolved? Remain types won't accept it. If we have a referendum and choose to stay (assuming that's even possible) the message will be loud and clear: the electorate's opinion counts if they agree with the political class and, if not, they'll be given another chance to provide the 'right' answer.
However, we shouldn't let the current situation blind us to the past one, or the counterfactual (in which no referendum had been held). The political class has been dragging us without democratic consent ever closer into the EU's clutches. They've broken manifesto pledges to hold a referendum before. The UK electorate likes EU economics, dislikes EU politics, and was promised a vote on Lisbon.
Dissolving the democratic frog in bureaucratic hot water is not a good situation.
Edited extra bit: sorry, bit rambly.
You can make a case for another vote. But I think people who single-mindedly advocate that dramatically underestimate the profoundly negative consequences for the body politic in this country.
I outlined some years ago a route to the far right rising in this country (the far left, alas, already owns Labour). Asking the people what they want to do about the EU, then running another referendum with the options of An Incredibly Poor Deal and Remain, would be a wonderful way to disenchant swathes of the electorate and persuade them no established party will take them seriously.0 -
Absolutely, their figures are completely laughable, we are at full employment, despite the large scale migration of workers into this country from eastern europe. If you believe their growth figures we should be at 3 million unemployed. It is just silly. Anyone who wants a job now can have one, when in the last 60 years has that been the case in this Country, yet according to the ONS we have very low growth. The borrowing figures reflect the fact that growth is 3-4%, who on here predicted that we would basically have a balanced buget by now.RobD said:
You think that they are out by a factor of two?currystar said:
The ONS is simply not fit for purpose. As I have been saying on here for years Britain is booming, there is zero unemployment and I would guess growth has been around 3-4% a year for at least the last five years, despite of course the economy being run by the worst government in history.DavidL said:From the ONS report on borrowing this morning:
"Receipts in September 2018 increased by 3.2% compared with September 2017, to £56.4 billion, while total expenditure increased by 2.8% to £59.4 billion.
Much of the annual growth in receipts came from Value Added Tax (VAT), Income Tax and National Insurance contributions, while other taxes such as duties on both tobacco and Stamp Duty (on land and properties) have fallen marginally on September 2017."
I mean, what is it going to take for us to rebase our growth figures? Its getting silly.0 -
and they know more than the experts. On that area they are, nothing short of expert.SouthamObserver said:
As we know, the Bucanneers know more about manufacturing cars than car manufacturers, more about the life sciences industry than pharma companies, more about running lorry fleets than transportation businesses and more about food production than the supermarkets.HYUFD said:
If you really think Toyota will move all their European operations here rather than the reverse if there are European tariffs then you are even more deluded than I thoughtarcher101au said:
I am sure that Toyota would be delighted if the UK implements unilateral free trade in response to No Deal Brexit. Not only would there be no impact at all on parts coming into the UK from the EU, but since over 60% of parts for UK manufacturers come from outside the EU they will benefit from the elimination of tariffs on these parts as well.HYUFD said:
Hopefully Archer might take noteCyclefree said:
Well, he probably feels it necessary to get it across to the dunderheads in government.Recidivist said:
Well I have no idea about Faisal's track record, but in this tweet at least he has found something that we would all do well to take notice of.Floater said:
Hope Faisal checked his facts this time - he has made some howlers over brexit claims recently.Scott_P said:
"If no withdrawal agreement is reached and the transition period through December 2020 is consequently not implemented, corporate activities and consumers will be adversely affected by the impacts of suspended production activities resulting from failed just-in-time logistics operations, declines in revenue, and revised vehicle sales prices caused by spiralling logistics and production costs."
That is pretty strong language for the head of a trade association to be using.
If the EU decide to implement tariffs against the UK then the obvious response will be for Toyota to move their EU operations over here.
It is a shame that Pigmy May has already told business that has intends to continue to implement the EU tariff schedule after a no deal Brexit which is why they are justifiably worried.
Luckily, May will not be PM for long and the measures necessary to implement a successful no deal Brexit can be put in place.0 -
The most important thing is that the UK is finally starting to see itself in the same light as everyone else does: a bit of a joke.Nigel_Foremain said:
Thank you for your response. Where we are in agreement is that a rerun of the original vote would not be a good thing. My question though was, has it been worth it? No offence, but you gave me a bit of a politician's answer. The supplementary question has to be, if it was worth it, what are we actually going to gain in return for the pain (cutting through the naïve propaganda)?
0 -
What other Country in Europe has full employment??TOPPING said:
And yet we are lagging behind our peers.currystar said:
The ONS is simply not fit for purpose. As I have been saying on here for years Britain is booming, there is zero unemployment and I would guess growth has been around 3-4% a year for at least the last five years, despite of course the economy being run by the worst government in history.DavidL said:From the ONS report on borrowing this morning:
"Receipts in September 2018 increased by 3.2% compared with September 2017, to £56.4 billion, while total expenditure increased by 2.8% to £59.4 billion.
Much of the annual growth in receipts came from Value Added Tax (VAT), Income Tax and National Insurance contributions, while other taxes such as duties on both tobacco and Stamp Duty (on land and properties) have fallen marginally on September 2017."
I mean, what is it going to take for us to rebase our growth figures? Its getting silly.
https://fullfact.org/economy/uk-economic-growth-within-g7/0 -
They did the opposite of what Robert Smithson recommended, to walk softly and carry a big stick.grabcocque said:
Yes, but most of the actual big lies, the clinchers shall we say, came from Tories. It wasn't Labour who told me we'd be able to spend 350 million a week on the NHS. It wasn't Labour who told us "absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the single market" or said that no deal wouldn't happen, that it'd be the easiest deal ever, etc. etc.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Cocque, plenty of Labour supporters voted to leave the EU as well. Pretending it was the evil, baby-eating Tories is wrong (and unnecessary, as you can legitimately blame May's incompetence and capitulation for much of the present woe).
The Tories told all the biggest and most important lies.
And now, the actual botching of the botched Brexit belongs to, will always belong to, the Tories.
The Tories will be, for the remainder of posterity, the party that lied about Brexit, and then completely fucking botched it. Labour won't.0 -
Mr. Foremain, the ultimate question is whether we want to govern ourselves, and leave the EU, or consider the economic advantages worth sacrificing self-determination.
That's the problem. We'd be happy with the economics and no more politics. But that wasn't on offer.
Mr. Cocque, I've never understood why some people seem to delight in disliking their own nation.0 -
Germany, the Netherlands, but not many.currystar said:
What other Country in Europe has full employment??TOPPING said:
And yet we are lagging behind our peers.currystar said:
The ONS is simply not fit for purpose. As I have been saying on here for years Britain is booming, there is zero unemployment and I would guess growth has been around 3-4% a year for at least the last five years, despite of course the economy being run by the worst government in history.DavidL said:From the ONS report on borrowing this morning:
"Receipts in September 2018 increased by 3.2% compared with September 2017, to £56.4 billion, while total expenditure increased by 2.8% to £59.4 billion.
Much of the annual growth in receipts came from Value Added Tax (VAT), Income Tax and National Insurance contributions, while other taxes such as duties on both tobacco and Stamp Duty (on land and properties) have fallen marginally on September 2017."
I mean, what is it going to take for us to rebase our growth figures? Its getting silly.
https://fullfact.org/economy/uk-economic-growth-within-g7/0 -
Yes. See local press here:Sean_F said:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-45918845
Is this the trial Tommy Robinson was trying to film?
https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/west-yorkshire-news/huddersfield-grooming-gang-operation-tendersea-15290153
and on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/StephanieFinneg/status/10532797704132730900 -
The Brexit Buccanneers to a man all believed themselves to have a much bigger stick than they really did.Sean_F said:
They did the opposite of what Robert Smithson recommended, to walk softly and carry a big stick.0 -
It shows people from Sheffield Hallam are brilliant candidates for any top end role and deserve every penny.Nigelb said:
It's an international moderate conspiracy.slade said:On the Clegg appointment it is interesting that his predecessor as LD MP for Hallam, Richard Allan, is now a senior executive at Facebook.
0 -
Strange as it may seem, the UK is one of the best-governed places to live in.grabcocque said:
The most important thing is that the UK is finally starting to see itself in the same light as everyone else does: a bit of a joke.Nigel_Foremain said:
Thank you for your response. Where we are in agreement is that a rerun of the original vote would not be a good thing. My question though was, has it been worth it? No offence, but you gave me a bit of a politician's answer. The supplementary question has to be, if it was worth it, what are we actually going to gain in return for the pain (cutting through the naïve propaganda)?0 -
As a patriot that is one of the things that I always feared from this stupid and unnecessary period of collective insanity. Before we were members we were known as "the sick man of Europe". That was perhaps better than now being seen as "the thick man of Europe"grabcocque said:
The most important thing is that the UK is finally starting to see itself in the same light as everyone else does: a bit of a joke.Nigel_Foremain said:
Thank you for your response. Where we are in agreement is that a rerun of the original vote would not be a good thing. My question though was, has it been worth it? No offence, but you gave me a bit of a politician's answer. The supplementary question has to be, if it was worth it, what are we actually going to gain in return for the pain (cutting through the naïve propaganda)?0 -
Brexit is the ultimate expression of dislike in our NationMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Cocque, I've never understood why some people seem to delight in disliking their own nation.
0 -
A £20bn deficit (that we look to be on track for) is not the surplus in 2015 I was promised by George Osborne.currystar said:
Absolutely, their figures are completely laughable, we are at full employment, despite the large scale migration of workers into this country from eastern europe. If you believe their growth figures we should be at 3 million unemployed. It is just silly. Anyone who wants a job now can have one, when in the last 60 years has that been the case in this Country, yet according to the ONS we have very low growth. The borrowing figures reflect the fact that growth is 3-4%, who on here predicted that we would basically have a balanced buget by now.RobD said:
You think that they are out by a factor of two?currystar said:
The ONS is simply not fit for purpose. As I have been saying on here for years Britain is booming, there is zero unemployment and I would guess growth has been around 3-4% a year for at least the last five years, despite of course the economy being run by the worst government in history.DavidL said:From the ONS report on borrowing this morning:
"Receipts in September 2018 increased by 3.2% compared with September 2017, to £56.4 billion, while total expenditure increased by 2.8% to £59.4 billion.
Much of the annual growth in receipts came from Value Added Tax (VAT), Income Tax and National Insurance contributions, while other taxes such as duties on both tobacco and Stamp Duty (on land and properties) have fallen marginally on September 2017."
I mean, what is it going to take for us to rebase our growth figures? Its getting silly.0 -
What will you do if Brexit is a success?Scott_P said:
Brexit is the ultimate expression of dislike in our NationMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Cocque, I've never understood why some people seem to delight in disliking their own nation.
0 -
It's about delusion and pomposity. The Brexit buccaneers have been pompous and delusional to a fault, and seeing them slam face first into cold, hard reality has been an absolute delight.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Foremain, the ultimate question is whether we want to govern ourselves, and leave the EU, or consider the economic advantages worth sacrificing self-determination.
That's the problem. We'd be happy with the economics and no more politics. But that wasn't on offer.
Mr. Cocque, I've never understood why some people seem to delight in disliking their own nation.
It's going to take this nation a long, long time to rebuild the international trust and respect the UK used to possess and the Tories pissed up the swannee.0 -
'Help to Buy' has a teeny bit to do with us.DavidL said:
So basically the interview was supposed to be about something else and the interviewer raises the bonus, end of interview.Theuniondivvie said:What say you lads (and any lasses that may be lurking), acceptable or unacceptable face of capitalism? Since the face tried to slither off camera asap, he apparently may have a view on that himself.
https://twitter.com/spencerstokestv/status/1052981336288432128
Well, can't blame him for trying I suppose and a story about bricks would obviously hold limited interest. Stepping back a bit this seems to be a matter between the Persimmon shareholders and their chief exec. If they are happy what's it got to do with us?
I'll put you down for an 'acceptable' anyway.0 -
I’d prefer to back the ONS over guesses pulled from the arse of a pb poster. Similtaneously you can find no shortage of other pb posters saying how terrible Britain is, usually blaming immigrants for depressing wages. The ONS takes an overview, not just anecdotal experience. It doesn’t always get it right but it’s very professional at what it does.currystar said:
The ONS is simply not fit for purpose. As I have been saying on here for years Britain is booming, there is zero unemployment and I would guess growth has been around 3-4% a year for at least the last five years, despite of course the economy being run by the worst government in history.DavidL said:From the ONS report on borrowing this morning:
"Receipts in September 2018 increased by 3.2% compared with September 2017, to £56.4 billion, while total expenditure increased by 2.8% to £59.4 billion.
Much of the annual growth in receipts came from Value Added Tax (VAT), Income Tax and National Insurance contributions, while other taxes such as duties on both tobacco and Stamp Duty (on land and properties) have fallen marginally on September 2017."
I mean, what is it going to take for us to rebase our growth figures? Its getting silly.0 -
You wouldn't happen to hale from there by any chance ?TheScreamingEagles said:
It shows people from Sheffield Hallam are brilliant candidates for any top end role and deserve every penny.Nigelb said:
It's an international moderate conspiracy.slade said:On the Clegg appointment it is interesting that his predecessor as LD MP for Hallam, Richard Allan, is now a senior executive at Facebook.
0 -
Has Julian Assange really thought this through
https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/10532850964244643840 -
Extraordinarily high early voting figures, for the midterm elections, reported from Virginia:
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/412206-virginia-sees-large-increases-in-absentee-voting-ahead-of-midterms0 -
So explain the borrowing figures then against what they claim growth to be??AlastairMeeks said:
I’d prefer to back the ONS over guesses pulled from the arse of a pb poster. Similtaneously you can find no shortage of other pb posters saying how terrible Britain is, usually blaming immigrants for depressing wages. The ONS takes an overview, not just anecdotal experience. It doesn’t always get it right but it’s very professional at what it does.currystar said:
The ONS is simply not fit for purpose. As I have been saying on here for years Britain is booming, there is zero unemployment and I would guess growth has been around 3-4% a year for at least the last five years, despite of course the economy being run by the worst government in history.DavidL said:From the ONS report on borrowing this morning:
"Receipts in September 2018 increased by 3.2% compared with September 2017, to £56.4 billion, while total expenditure increased by 2.8% to £59.4 billion.
Much of the annual growth in receipts came from Value Added Tax (VAT), Income Tax and National Insurance contributions, while other taxes such as duties on both tobacco and Stamp Duty (on land and properties) have fallen marginally on September 2017."
I mean, what is it going to take for us to rebase our growth figures? Its getting silly.0 -
They are making him clear up after his cat, apparently.TheScreamingEagles said:Has Julian Assange really thought this through
https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/10532850964244643840 -
I think it's throwing the OBR out. Based on expected growth, they keep overestimating the deficitcurrystar said:
So explain the borrowing figures then against what they claim growth to be??AlastairMeeks said:
I’d prefer to back the ONS over guesses pulled from the arse of a pb poster. Similtaneously you can find no shortage of other pb posters saying how terrible Britain is, usually blaming immigrants for depressing wages. The ONS takes an overview, not just anecdotal experience. It doesn’t always get it right but it’s very professional at what it does.currystar said:
The ONS is simply not fit for purpose. As I have been saying on here for years Britain is booming, there is zero unemployment and I would guess growth has been around 3-4% a year for at least the last five years, despite of course the economy being run by the worst government in history.DavidL said:From the ONS report on borrowing this morning:
"Receipts in September 2018 increased by 3.2% compared with September 2017, to £56.4 billion, while total expenditure increased by 2.8% to £59.4 billion.
Much of the annual growth in receipts came from Value Added Tax (VAT), Income Tax and National Insurance contributions, while other taxes such as duties on both tobacco and Stamp Duty (on land and properties) have fallen marginally on September 2017."
I mean, what is it going to take for us to rebase our growth figures? Its getting silly.0 -
Taking the five year time frame you referred to, a damn sight more explicable than your guess.currystar said:
So explain the borrowing figures then against what they claim growth to be??AlastairMeeks said:
I’d prefer to back the ONS over guesses pulled from the arse of a pb poster. Similtaneously you can find no shortage of other pb posters saying how terrible Britain is, usually blaming immigrants for depressing wages. The ONS takes an overview, not just anecdotal experience. It doesn’t always get it right but it’s very professional at what it does.currystar said:
The ONS is simply not fit for purpose. As I have been saying on here for years Britain is booming, there is zero unemployment and I would guess growth has been around 3-4% a year for at least the last five years, despite of course the economy being run by the worst government in history.DavidL said:From the ONS report on borrowing this morning:
"Receipts in September 2018 increased by 3.2% compared with September 2017, to £56.4 billion, while total expenditure increased by 2.8% to £59.4 billion.
Much of the annual growth in receipts came from Value Added Tax (VAT), Income Tax and National Insurance contributions, while other taxes such as duties on both tobacco and Stamp Duty (on land and properties) have fallen marginally on September 2017."
I mean, what is it going to take for us to rebase our growth figures? Its getting silly.0 -
GDP numbers tend to get upwards in subsequent years.TheWhiteRabbit said:
I think it's throwing the OBR out. Based on expected growth, they keep overestimating the deficitcurrystar said:
So explain the borrowing figures then against what they claim growth to be??AlastairMeeks said:
I’d prefer to back the ONS over guesses pulled from the arse of a pb poster. Similtaneously you can find no shortage of other pb posters saying how terrible Britain is, usually blaming immigrants for depressing wages. The ONS takes an overview, not just anecdotal experience. It doesn’t always get it right but it’s very professional at what it does.currystar said:
The ONS is simply not fit for purpose. As I have been saying on here for years Britain is booming, there is zero unemployment and I would guess growth has been around 3-4% a year for at least the last five years, despite of course the economy being run by the worst government in history.DavidL said:From the ONS report on borrowing this morning:
"Receipts in September 2018 increased by 3.2% compared with September 2017, to £56.4 billion, while total expenditure increased by 2.8% to £59.4 billion.
Much of the annual growth in receipts came from Value Added Tax (VAT), Income Tax and National Insurance contributions, while other taxes such as duties on both tobacco and Stamp Duty (on land and properties) have fallen marginally on September 2017."
I mean, what is it going to take for us to rebase our growth figures? Its getting silly.0 -
Less spending rather than more tax receipts?currystar said:
So explain the borrowing figures then against what they claim growth to be??AlastairMeeks said:
I’d prefer to back the ONS over guesses pulled from the arse of a pb poster. Similtaneously you can find no shortage of other pb posters saying how terrible Britain is, usually blaming immigrants for depressing wages. The ONS takes an overview, not just anecdotal experience. It doesn’t always get it right but it’s very professional at what it does.currystar said:
The ONS is simply not fit for purpose. As I have been saying on here for years Britain is booming, there is zero unemployment and I would guess growth has been around 3-4% a year for at least the last five years, despite of course the economy being run by the worst government in history.DavidL said:From the ONS report on borrowing this morning:
"Receipts in September 2018 increased by 3.2% compared with September 2017, to £56.4 billion, while total expenditure increased by 2.8% to £59.4 billion.
Much of the annual growth in receipts came from Value Added Tax (VAT), Income Tax and National Insurance contributions, while other taxes such as duties on both tobacco and Stamp Duty (on land and properties) have fallen marginally on September 2017."
I mean, what is it going to take for us to rebase our growth figures? Its getting silly.0 -
Mr. P, no, it isn't. People wanting to remain in or leave the EU has nothing to do with whether they like or dislike their own country.
Mr. Cocque, delusion is when you promise the electorate a referendum, then renege upon it after the election. It's when you take powers from the UK, hand them to the EU, never ask the public, and are surprised when EU-scepticism rises. A flash of fire might be dramatic, but it's no hotter than slowly boiling a frog.
If the political class had taken more account of, or understood better, the people they presume to govern then this would've been headed off by a referendum on Lisbon.0 -
Forgive me Alastair if I am misremembering, but did you not write a thread header that questioned the immigration statistics? I've had a quick Google and couldn't find anything so perhaps it wasn't you, but I'm sure I've seen someone on here question them.AlastairMeeks said:
I’d prefer to back the ONS over guesses pulled from the arse of a pb poster. Similtaneously you can find no shortage of other pb posters saying how terrible Britain is, usually blaming immigrants for depressing wages. The ONS takes an overview, not just anecdotal experience. It doesn’t always get it right but it’s very professional at what it does.currystar said:
The ONS is simply not fit for purpose. As I have been saying on here for years Britain is booming, there is zero unemployment and I would guess growth has been around 3-4% a year for at least the last five years, despite of course the economy being run by the worst government in history.DavidL said:From the ONS report on borrowing this morning:
"Receipts in September 2018 increased by 3.2% compared with September 2017, to £56.4 billion, while total expenditure increased by 2.8% to £59.4 billion.
Much of the annual growth in receipts came from Value Added Tax (VAT), Income Tax and National Insurance contributions, while other taxes such as duties on both tobacco and Stamp Duty (on land and properties) have fallen marginally on September 2017."
I mean, what is it going to take for us to rebase our growth figures? Its getting silly.0 -
It was a vote against the status quo. Literally the state of the Nation.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. P, no, it isn't. People wanting to remain in or leave the EU has nothing to do with whether they like or dislike their own country.
0 -
The wrong kind of experts?tlg86 said:
Forgive me Alastair if I am misremembering, but did you not write a thread header that questioned the immigration statistics? I've had a quick Google and couldn't find anything so perhaps it wasn't you, but I'm sure I've seen someone on here question them.AlastairMeeks said:
I’d prefer to back the ONS over guesses pulled from the arse of a pb poster. Similtaneously you can find no shortage of other pb posters saying how terrible Britain is, usually blaming immigrants for depressing wages. The ONS takes an overview, not just anecdotal experience. It doesn’t always get it right but it’s very professional at what it does.currystar said:
The ONS is simply not fit for purpose. As I have been saying on here for years Britain is booming, there is zero unemployment and I would guess growth has been around 3-4% a year for at least the last five years, despite of course the economy being run by the worst government in history.DavidL said:From the ONS report on borrowing this morning:
"Receipts in September 2018 increased by 3.2% compared with September 2017, to £56.4 billion, while total expenditure increased by 2.8% to £59.4 billion.
Much of the annual growth in receipts came from Value Added Tax (VAT), Income Tax and National Insurance contributions, while other taxes such as duties on both tobacco and Stamp Duty (on land and properties) have fallen marginally on September 2017."
I mean, what is it going to take for us to rebase our growth figures? Its getting silly.
0 -
Yes, Jared O'Meara definitely merits every penny of taxpayers money he receives for his outstanding role representing Hallam in ParliamentTheScreamingEagles said:
It shows people from Sheffield Hallam are brilliant candidates for any top end role and deserve every penny.Nigelb said:
It's an international moderate conspiracy.slade said:On the Clegg appointment it is interesting that his predecessor as LD MP for Hallam, Richard Allan, is now a senior executive at Facebook.
0 -
Labour doesn't seem to like Nick Clegg getting a job:
Jon Trickett, the shadow Cabinet Office minister, said:
"It is a damning indictment of the sorry state of our country’s politics that, at a time when digital giants such as Facebook are rightly coming under public scrutiny, our former deputy prime minister has been hired to lobby on their behalf.
Labour is committed to slamming shut the revolving door between politics and big business, which for too long has corroded public trust in politics."
Quite right too. The People's Commissars will decide who gets what job, and of course moving to the US will be banned altogether.0 -
-
He became the first Labour person to take Sheffield Hallam, he's exceptional.HYUFD said:
Yes, Jared O'Meara definitely merits every penny of taxpayers money he receives for his outstanding role representing Hallam in ParliamentTheScreamingEagles said:
It shows people from Sheffield Hallam are brilliant candidates for any top end role and deserve every penny.Nigelb said:
It's an international moderate conspiracy.slade said:On the Clegg appointment it is interesting that his predecessor as LD MP for Hallam, Richard Allan, is now a senior executive at Facebook.
0 -
Deal with it, I voted Remain and wish Cameron was still PM, but hes not and we are leaving the EU. Since the vote this country has boomed, going completely against all predictions from the Remain side. I am optomistic. I really don't see the point in worrying about predictions as from my experience they are nearly always wrong. All your posts are just predictions from "experts" of how things are going to be terrible. You would have wasted alot of time if things go well.Scott_P said:0 -
Like 1945, then, but that wasn't the result of Labour voters disliking their own country - they just wanted changes to it.Scott_P said:
It was a vote against the status quo. Literally the state of the Nation.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. P, no, it isn't. People wanting to remain in or leave the EU has nothing to do with whether they like or dislike their own country.
0 -
The total must include DKs/ would not vote? Otherwise I’d question all the results from that survey.Scott_P said:0 -
An excellent thread.Tissue_Price said:
Yes. See local press here:Sean_F said:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-45918845
Is this the trial Tommy Robinson was trying to film?
https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/west-yorkshire-news/huddersfield-grooming-gang-operation-tendersea-15290153
and on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/StephanieFinneg/status/1053279770413273090
This linked article is also pertinent:
https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/news-opinion/grooming-gangs-islamophobia-edl-robinson-152948880 -
Get real. The idea that leaving the single market and customs union will introduce trade barriers is not a "prediction" but the actual reality of what it means.currystar said:
Deal with it, I voted Remain and wish Cameron was still PM, but hes not and we are leaving the EU. Since the vote this country has boomed, going completely against all predictions from the Remain side. I am optomistic. I really don't see the point in worrying about predictions as from my experience they are nearly always wrong. All your posts are just predictions from "experts" of how things are going to be terrible. You would have wasted alot of time if things go well.Scott_P said:0 -
We are a long way from full employment. You are eliding the difference between employment and under-employment, which is still above its NAIRU rate.currystar said:
What other Country in Europe has full employment??TOPPING said:
And yet we are lagging behind our peers.currystar said:
The ONS is simply not fit for purpose. As I have been saying on here for years Britain is booming, there is zero unemployment and I would guess growth has been around 3-4% a year for at least the last five years, despite of course the economy being run by the worst government in history.DavidL said:From the ONS report on borrowing this morning:
"Receipts in September 2018 increased by 3.2% compared with September 2017, to £56.4 billion, while total expenditure increased by 2.8% to £59.4 billion.
Much of the annual growth in receipts came from Value Added Tax (VAT), Income Tax and National Insurance contributions, while other taxes such as duties on both tobacco and Stamp Duty (on land and properties) have fallen marginally on September 2017."
I mean, what is it going to take for us to rebase our growth figures? Its getting silly.
https://fullfact.org/economy/uk-economic-growth-within-g7/0 -
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New thread!!0
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NEW THREAD
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