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Did it work in Greece? It’s a country now chock-full of resentment and hatred to the EU.RoyalBlue said:
To be fair to the EU, their strategy of demanding unconditional surrender is perfectly logical. It worked in Greece, and with the support of much of the UK’s economic, political, media, academic and administrative elites, surely they’ve got a good chance of steamrolling public option here?Casino_Royale said:
The most sustainable Remain solution would be for the EU to outbid May by offering a Remain deal that improves on Cameron’s offer with further mutual concessions on free movement with an admission that both sides got it wrong and both have learnt from the experience.OldKingCole said:
Inclined to agree, but a No Deal or chaotic Brexit will be the same.Casino_Royale said:
If Brexit is stopped before it is ever implemented we are heading for a very dark place.OldKingCole said:
'If it does happen I’d advocate scorched earth: being as disruptive and non-collegiate a member as possible inside the EU in revenge for the EU’s total non-collaboration over constructively creating a more sustainable long term relationship with the UK, which would have been in both our interests.’Casino_Royale said:
No-one brings the UK to heel. No-one.alex. said:RoyalBlue said:
The other people in that list only confirm what a totally fringe option a second referendum is for Conservatives. Those with something between their ears realise it would blow the party to smithereens.HYUFD said:I also see Sir John Major has joined Tory MPs like Anna Soubry, Sarah Wollaston, Guto Bebb and now Heidi Allen in backing a 'People's Vote' and a second EU referendum
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45690002?intlink_from_url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/cwlw3xz0lvvt/brexit&link_location=live-reporting-story
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45690898
As per Nigel Farage and his lot in the Parliament and, it seems, the Government’s behaviour ever since 2015.
Make no mistake.
However, they won’t do that. Because they have zero self awareness, aren’t capable of any form of magnanimity and are only fixated on overplaying their hand.
I also don’t see them winning many hearts and minds in Poland or Hungary either.
It might ‘work’ in the short-term but by sowing the wind they will eventually reap the whirlwind.0 -
You have just created yet another fantasy for yourself - a remain v no deal referendum.HYUFD said:
In the event of No Deal Amber Rudd has also said she would vote for a second EU referendum, around 40 Tory MPs would do so and add the LDs, the SNP, Plaid, Lucas, Hermon and Labour (if they cannot get another general election) and you have a majority of the House of Commons for a second EU referendum if No Deal.RoyalBlue said:
The other people in that list only confirm what a totally fringe option a second referendum is for Conservatives. Those with something between their ears realise it would blow the party to smithereens.HYUFD said:I also see Sir John Major has joined Tory MPs like Anna Soubry, Sarah Wollaston, Guto Bebb and now Heidi Allen in backing a 'People's Vote' and a second EU referendum
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45690002?intlink_from_url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/cwlw3xz0lvvt/brexit&link_location=live-reporting-story
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45690898
Polls show Remain would win by at least 10% if No Deal, No Deal is not sustainable for the country or a Tory Party that wants to stay in government
Of course, in the real world, this would be impossible because the Leavers would not back no deal, they would say it was the option proposed by a remainer (May) and if they had been in charge all along there would have been a deal. So the referendum would be an utter shambles and not resolve anything with an almost certain boycott from the Leavers on the grounds they don’t support either option.0 -
If a boycott is all that stands in the way, bring it on.archer101au said:
You have just created yet another fantasy for yourself - a remain v no deal referendum.HYUFD said:
In the event of No Deal Amber Rudd has also said she would vote for a second EU referendum, around 40 Tory MPs would do so and add the LDs, the SNP, Plaid, Lucas, Hermon and Labour (if they cannot get another general election) and you have a majority of the House of Commons for a second EU referendum if No Deal.RoyalBlue said:
The other people in that list only confirm what a totally fringe option a second referendum is for Conservatives. Those with something between their ears realise it would blow the party to smithereens.HYUFD said:I also see Sir John Major has joined Tory MPs like Anna Soubry, Sarah Wollaston, Guto Bebb and now Heidi Allen in backing a 'People's Vote' and a second EU referendum
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45690002?intlink_from_url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/cwlw3xz0lvvt/brexit&link_location=live-reporting-story
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45690898
Polls show Remain would win by at least 10% if No Deal, No Deal is not sustainable for the country or a Tory Party that wants to stay in government
Of course, in the real world, this would be impossible because the Leavers would not back no deal, they would say it was the option proposed by a remainer (May) and if they had been in charge all along there would have been a deal. So the referendum would be an utter shambles and not resolve anything with an almost certain boycott from the Leavers on the grounds they don’t support either option.
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Nods sheepishly. I have covered with some of it, but still my main betting was based on thinking USA winning comfortably.Sandpit said:
Have you got a spread bet on the USA?FrancisUrquhart said:
And me shopping in Lidl for Christmas lunch....do they do a knock-off version of Nyetimber and is it any good?MarqueeMark said:
A bad afternoon for the USA, and tomorrow is looking close to a dead rubber....FrancisUrquhart said:
I'm more interested in not losing even more money.....Sandpit said:
More interested in the US TV audiences and sponsors than in winning the cup?FrancisUrquhart said:Bloody hell, Tiger Woods picked again this afternoon....bloody mental.
In all seriousness, I am obviously joking about Lidl, I just punt on sports for a bit of fun. Long gone are the days when every day I had $1,000s at risk at the poker tables etc.0 -
Absent a new leader, there seems to be very little chance of that changing.rottenborough said:Excellent article.
The sense of drift from the Tories is terrible.
And of course a new leader could quite easily make things worse.
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The problem for you Conservatives is that your party has been taken over by Tory hard-liners. They do not really want to stay in government, as you say. They much prefer to wreck everything, make an enormous profit for themselves while everybody else suffers, and then sheer off to leave others to pick up the pieces.HYUFD said:In the event of No Deal Amber Rudd has also said she would vote for a second EU referendum, around 40 Tory MPs would do so and add the LDs, the SNP, Plaid, Lucas, Hermon and Labour (if they cannot get another general election) and you have a majority of the House of Commons for a second EU referendum if No Deal.
Polls show Remain would win by at least 10% if No Deal, No Deal is not sustainable for the country or a Tory Party that wants to stay in government
Even with Russian funding and moral support from the likes of Trump, i do not think these hard-line Tories could ever win an election fairly.
As with Labour, you need to identify with the middle ground. With the present cast, you cannot do that.0 -
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1046000105453760513Nigelb said:
Absent a new leader, there seems to be very little chance of that changing.rottenborough said:Excellent article.
The sense of drift from the Tories is terrible.
And of course a new leader could quite easily make things worse.0 -
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Which is why Cable needs to go now, not in a year’s time.matt said:
An election could be 3.5 years away. Permanent readiness is wearing. There’s enough time for both the LDs and the Conservatives to reinvent themselves (although if one is writing the same a year from now it’s a harder argument).Beverley_C said:
You are probably correct, most people have no time for politics in their daily lives, but Labour is the only game in town at the moment. The LibDems are missing in action and the Tories are too busy sharpening their daggers.matt said:
The Labour Party had (has) a stand in the market square today. Half watching while drinking coffee, I wasn’t immediately convinced that the message is wholly working in this seat.Beverley_C said:Labour are evangelising because they have an evangelist with a (barmy!) vision in charge
The Conservatives are doing nothing because Brexit and Who Is The Next Leader is consuming all their attention, the country being forgotten in the midst of their obsessions.
And that is where we are. Labour has a clear field to get its "New Communism" message out to the oppressed proletariat....
So, it is Labour or the fringe, fruitcake parties...0 -
To be honest I would rather be in opposition on a No Deal Brexit platform where we have Leavers behind us and can oppose a Corbyn minority government than in government trying to govern without a Deal and with the economic catastrophe and threat to the Union of No DealPClipp said:
The problem for you Conservatives is that your party has been taken over by Tory hard-liners. They do not really want to stay in government, as you say. They much prefer to wreck everything, make an enormous profit for themselves while everybody else suffers, and then sheer off to leave others to pick up the pieces.HYUFD said:In the event of No Deal Amber Rudd has also said she would vote for a second EU referendum, around 40 Tory MPs would do so and add the LDs, the SNP, Plaid, Lucas, Hermon and Labour (if they cannot get another general election) and you have a majority of the House of Commons for a second EU referendum if No Deal.
Polls show Remain would win by at least 10% if No Deal, No Deal is not sustainable for the country or a Tory Party that wants to stay in government
Even with Russian funding and moral support from the likes of Trump, i do not think these hard-line Tories could ever win an election fairly.
As with Labour, you need to identify with the middle ground. With the present cast, you cannot do that.0 -
The lady who did the Corbyn Cult gag....will be added to the list of those to be sent to the gulag.viewcode said:A bit of levity is required, I think...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=aG7-KcOq6OI0 -
Job ad ?rottenborough said:
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1046000105453760513Nigelb said:
Absent a new leader, there seems to be very little chance of that changing.rottenborough said:Excellent article.
The sense of drift from the Tories is terrible.
And of course a new leader could quite easily make things worse.
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Who says the Tories have run out of ideas....rottenborough said:
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1046000105453760513Nigelb said:
Absent a new leader, there seems to be very little chance of that changing.rottenborough said:Excellent article.
The sense of drift from the Tories is terrible.
And of course a new leader could quite easily make things worse.0 -
Grexit (along with Quitaly and Frortie) has never polled higher than 35%. The EU would work a lot harder to keep Greece in than the UK as, from a romantic and cultural perspective, it's a far more important component of the Paneuropean identity.Casino_Royale said:
Did it work in Greece? It’s a country now chock-full of resentment and hatred to the EU.
I also don’t see them winning many hearts and minds in Poland or Hungary either.
It might ‘work’ in the short-term but by sowing the wind they will eventually reap the whirlwind.0 -
Certainly how I read it !!!Nigelb said:
Job ad ?rottenborough said:
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1046000105453760513Nigelb said:
Absent a new leader, there seems to be very little chance of that changing.rottenborough said:Excellent article.
The sense of drift from the Tories is terrible.
And of course a new leader could quite easily make things worse.0 -
Hexham has a Tory MP and was Tory even in 1997 I believe, sometimes that leads to complacency.dixiedean said:
Maybe they need you up in Hexham then. There are Labour stalls every weekend in various towns and villages and at community events. Conservatives nowt.HYUFD said:
As local Tories we canvass about once a month (except in summer) and put out an In Touch newsletter about once or twice a year and the LDs put out a Focus once a quarter, Labour do next to nothing heredixiedean said:
Sure. I get that. However, I don't recall seeing a Conservative or LD stall ever. There are frequent Labour ones round here, as well as leafleting of the train stations every strike day, which is today and seemingly every other day.matt said:
The Labour Party had (has) a stand in the market square today. Half watching while drinking coffee, I wasn’t immediately convinced that the message is wholly working in this seat.Beverley_C said:Labour are evangelising because they have an evangelist with a (barmy!) vision in charge
The Conservatives are doing nothing because Brexit and Who Is The Next Leader is consuming all their attention, the country being forgotten in the midst of their obsessions.
And that is where we are. Labour has a clear field to get its "New Communism" message out to the oppressed proletariat....
And this is a Tory seat with a Tory council.
The message may not connect. Most people aren't paying attention, or thinking about politics.
But at least it is out there.
Whether it works is another question. But I doubt it harms.
We are in the same boat in Epping Forest though0 -
What the bloody hell are they doing at the 2nd hole....Saturday morning hackers....0
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Yet Remain would still winarcher101au said:
You have just created yet another fantasy for yourself - a remain v no deal referendum.HYUFD said:
In the event of No Deal Amber Rudd has also said she would vote for a second EU referendum, around 40 Tory MPs would do so and add the LDs, the SNP, Plaid, Lucas, Hermon and Labour (if they cannot get another general election) and you have a majority of the House of Commons for a second EU referendum if No Deal.RoyalBlue said:
The other people in that list only confirm what a totally fringe option a second referendum is for Conservatives. Those with something between their ears realise it would blow the party to smithereens.HYUFD said:I also see Sir John Major has joined Tory MPs like Anna Soubry, Sarah Wollaston, Guto Bebb and now Heidi Allen in backing a 'People's Vote' and a second EU referendum
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45690002?intlink_from_url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/cwlw3xz0lvvt/brexit&link_location=live-reporting-story
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45690898
Polls show Remain would win by at least 10% if No Deal, No Deal is not sustainable for the country or a Tory Party that wants to stay in government
Of course, in the real world, this would be impossible because the Leavers would not back no deal, they would say it was the option proposed by a remainer (May) and if they had been in charge all along there would have been a deal. So the referendum would be an utter shambles and not resolve anything with an almost certain boycott from the Leavers on the grounds they don’t support either option.0 -
That's as in 'Here's your opportunity, if you ever fancied leading you party ...'?rottenborough said:
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1046000105453760513Nigelb said:
Absent a new leader, there seems to be very little chance of that changing.rottenborough said:Excellent article.
The sense of drift from the Tories is terrible.
And of course a new leader could quite easily make things worse.
Edit. Sorry, I saw a couple of you got there before me. As a slogan, it doesn't bode well.0 -
Par 3 - Hole halved in 6....0
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Mr Dancer’s bet on Bottas is looking good.0
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Most of the potential "Independent" MP's are in safe Labour high majority constituencies. As has often been mentioned, there are not really that many swing seats at Westminster. Most of the potential independents, are mostly in trouble with their own clp's, local members and voters, by treating the local party support with an arrogant contempt. The many stories I have found in the media about non-attendance at any monthly meetings or even being in contact with the clp except then expecting full support at election time, and not being seen in their constituencies for months and in a few cases, in the years between elections.Jonathan said:
With a few notable exceptions (maybe Frank Field), all Labour MPs would lose if they stood against their party on a point of principle. That's not the point.TheJezziah said:FPT
Chris Leslie strikes me as someone more of the calibre of Simon Danczuk rather than the members of the SDP, unless people have billed them as much bigger than they were.
Also I believe people should get to vote for what they really want, so if there really are thousands in Chris Leslie's constituency who are voting for him specifically they deserve the chance to vote for him again. I'll believe it when I see it though.
The point is that Labour needs to win under FPTP by being attractive to just enough voters to win seats. If you have a bunch of independent Labour MPs around the country each taking 5-20% of the vote with them... Bang! There goes your majority.
Much better to realise that the people you're calling Tories are Labour too, just a different strand, and the fact they might think differently is a strength. They can reach people that Labour needs that Corbyn can't.
While the Labour Party was in government with large majorities then local members could be ignored while the call of the TV studio's and cameras enabled their voters to see them hard at work. Unfortunately, it was a bad habit that should have been broken after 2010, but wasn't.0 -
Any racing gambler needs to know that the Morning Star's racing tipster,Farringdon,is top of the Naps Table turning a pound into £34.03 on every nap.Beat the bookies with the Morning Star.0
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The problem is the same as I mentioned in respect of @Tissue_Price's excellent piece this morning.
Tories believe that a low taxed economy will be more successful but they face a situation where the upward pressures on public spending are almost unending. Social Care, health, defence, education, housing, it is never ending. These pressures have increased substantially while they have struggled to cope with the horrific deficit they inherited. There is now a crisis in local government spending, an appalling backlog on things like road maintenance, huge unmet need in Social Care causing bed blocking in the NHS and armed services that are losing deployment capability as a result of essential kit.
The reality is that this government and the next government is going to be struggling to find the cash to meet these needs. They will edge up taxation where they can and all the proceeds of growth will get fed into more spending. A tory government will look pretty left wing by any historic standards.
But, as Maggie once said, TINA.0 -
There is some serious hacking going on in the golf this afternoon.0
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Pretty much all slogans are very easy to reinterpret, or are hostages to fortune. It's better than 'Demand better' next to a picture of the leader's face I suppose.ThomasNashe said:
That's as in 'Here's your opportunity, if you ever fancied leading you party ...'?rottenborough said:
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1046000105453760513Nigelb said:
Absent a new leader, there seems to be very little chance of that changing.rottenborough said:Excellent article.
The sense of drift from the Tories is terrible.
And of course a new leader could quite easily make things worse.
Edit. Sorry, I saw a couple of you got there before me. As a slogan, it doesn't bode well.0 -
Nottingham MP Chris Leslie loses no confidence vote
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-456918510 -
Well indeed. Usually waived away with a 'politics will see it done', but it could be problematic.Sandpit said:
We cannot pass a law saying that the EU have to recognise the withdrawal though.kle4 said:
Probably, unless the Act which gave the government the ability to declare the notice also gave it the power to withdraw it, which would seem an odd inclusion for what was, IIRC, a very small Act.OldKingCole said:
Does it require legislation to withdraw our Article 50 notice?Sandpit said:
So the Conservative rebels will vote down the Keep Planes Flying Bill, the Keep Trucks Trucking Bill, and the Keep Nuclear Power Stations Open Bill..?HYUFD said:
It will be proposed by the opposition, backbenchers and of course the likes of Soubry and Grieve will sabotage the government's agenda voting with the opposition if necessary and filibustering every government bill in order to paralyse the government if No Deal is in prospect with no second EU referendum. They may even vote with Labour to force a general election if No Deal is not put to the votersCarlottaVance said:
They can’t vote for something the government does not propose.HYUFD said:
In the event of No Deal Amber Rudd has also said she would vote for a second EU referendum, around 40 Tory MPs would do so and add the LDs, the SNP, Plaid, Lucas, Hermon and Labour (if they cannot get another general election) and you have a majority of the House of Commons for a second EU referendum if No DealRoyalBlue said:
The other people in that list only confirm what a totally fringe option a second referendum is for Conservatives. Those with something between their ears realise it would blow the party to smithereens.HYUFD said:I also see Sir John Major has joined Tory MPs like Anna Soubry, Sarah Wollaston, Guto Bebb and now Heidi Allen in backing a 'People's Vote' and a second EU referendum
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45690002?intlink_from_url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/cwlw3xz0lvvt/brexit&link_location=live-reporting-story
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-456908980 -
Is Field particularly revered in his constituency? I'm not saying he isn't, but I just can't think of any reason why he would be. Of course, many Tories regard him as a kind of pet, but I'd have thought that would actually lessen his standing amongst most of constituents.Jonathan said:
With a few notable exceptions (maybe Frank Field), all Labour MPs would lose if they stood against their party on a point of principle. That's not the point.TheJezziah said:FPT
Chris Leslie strikes me as someone more of the calibre of Simon Danczuk rather than the members of the SDP, unless people have billed them as much bigger than they were.
Also I believe people should get to vote for what they really want, so if there really are thousands in Chris Leslie's constituency who are voting for him specifically they deserve the chance to vote for him again. I'll believe it when I see it though.
The point is that Labour needs to win under FPTP by being attractive to just enough voters to win seats. If you have a bunch of independent Labour MPs around the country each taking 5-20% of the vote with them... Bang! There goes your majority.
Much better to realise that the people you're calling Tories are Labour too, just a different strand, and the fact they might think differently is a strength. They can reach people that Labour needs that Corbyn can't.0 -
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MD’s Bottas bet looking good.
Time to lay ?0 -
Putin interfering again ?FrancisUrquhart said:There is some serious hacking going on in the golf this afternoon.
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Best make sure glue is stronger than last year or we could have an O t it situationThomasNashe said:
That's as in 'Here's your opportunity, if you ever fancied leading you party ...'?rottenborough said:
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1046000105453760513Nigelb said:
Absent a new leader, there seems to be very little chance of that changing.rottenborough said:Excellent article.
The sense of drift from the Tories is terrible.
And of course a new leader could quite easily make things worse.
Edit. Sorry, I saw a couple of you got there before me. As a slogan, it doesn't bode well.0 -
Frortie ?Dura_Ace said:
Grexit (along with Quitaly and Frortie) has never polled higher than 35%. The EU would work a lot harder to keep Greece in than the UK as, from a romantic and cultural perspective, it's a far more important component of the Paneuropean identity.Casino_Royale said:
Did it work in Greece? It’s a country now chock-full of resentment and hatred to the EU.
I also don’t see them winning many hearts and minds in Poland or Hungary either.
It might ‘work’ in the short-term but by sowing the wind they will eventually reap the whirlwind.
Is that a sexual activity prevalent in the navy ?
(You really ought to do an article on military terminology some day.)
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It'll be painted on a blue backdrop. Cannot have just a blank one of course, too easy to green screen.bigjohnowls said:
Best make sure glue is stronger than last year or we could have an O t it situationThomasNashe said:
That's as in 'Here's your opportunity, if you ever fancied leading you party ...'?rottenborough said:
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1046000105453760513Nigelb said:
Absent a new leader, there seems to be very little chance of that changing.rottenborough said:Excellent article.
The sense of drift from the Tories is terrible.
And of course a new leader could quite easily make things worse.
Edit. Sorry, I saw a couple of you got there before me. As a slogan, it doesn't bode well.0 -
Well done Morris Dancer.0
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To be honest, I'm getting a bit bored with these right-wing shock jocks. Yes, it was amusing for a while and it is often right to prick liberal pomposity, but it's been going on for years now and has become a media industry in itself. Let's move on.AndyJS said:0 -
Stark_Dawning said:
Is Field particularly revered in his constituency? I'm not saying he isn't, but I just can't think of any reason why he would be. Of course, many Tories regard him as a kind of pet, but I'd have thought that would actually lessen his standing amongst most of constituents.Jonathan said:TheJezziah said:FPT
Chris Leslie strikes me as someone more of the calibre of Simon Danczuk rather than the members of the SDP, unless people have billed them as much bigger than they were.
Also I believe people should get to vote for what they really want, so if there really are thousands in Chris Leslie's constituency who are voting for him specifically they deserve the chance to vote for him again. I'll believe it when I see it though.
I believe he is thought to be a very good constituency MP.Stark_Dawning said:
Is Field particularly revered in his constituency? I'm not saying he isn't, but I just can't think of any reason why he would be. Of course, many Tories regard him as a kind of pet, but I'd have thought that would actually lessen his standing amongst most of constituents.Jonathan said:
With a few notable exceptions (maybe Frank Field), all Labour MPs would lose if they stood against their party on a point of principle. That's not the point.TheJezziah said:FPT
Chris Leslie strikes me as someone more of the calibre of Simon Danczuk rather than the members of the SDP, unless people have billed them as much bigger than they were.
Also I believe people should get to vote for what they really want, so if there really are thousands in Chris Leslie's constituency who are voting for him specifically they deserve the chance to vote for him again. I'll believe it when I see it though.
The point is that Labour needs to win under FPTP by being attractive to just enough voters to win seats. If you have a bunch of independent Labour MPs around the country each taking 5-20% of the vote with them... Bang! There goes your majority.
Much better to realise that the people you're calling Tories are Labour too, just a different strand, and the fact they might think differently is a strength. They can reach people that Labour needs that Corbyn can't.0 -
It's the neologism used in Francophone media for the hypothesis of France leaving the EU (France + Sortie).Nigelb said:
Frortie ?Dura_Ace said:
Grexit (along with Quitaly and Frortie) has never polled higher than 35%. The EU would work a lot harder to keep Greece in than the UK as, from a romantic and cultural perspective, it's a far more important component of the Paneuropean identity.Casino_Royale said:
Did it work in Greece? It’s a country now chock-full of resentment and hatred to the EU.
I also don’t see them winning many hearts and minds in Poland or Hungary either.
It might ‘work’ in the short-term but by sowing the wind they will eventually reap the whirlwind.
Is that a sexual activity prevalent in the navy ?
(You really ought to do an article on military terminology some day.)
The gentle souls on here can only withstand the mildest of anecdotes about adventures encountered on Pusser's War Canoes.0 -
It has worked on their terms. Undemocratic polities (Austria-Hungary, China, the EU) don’t fundamentally care what the populace thinks, until it affects their ability to maintain control of power and territory. That has not happened in Greece, and nobody else is thinking about leaving.Casino_Royale said:
Did it work in Greece? It’s a country now chock-full of resentment and hatred to the EU.RoyalBlue said:
To be fair to the EU, their strategy of demanding unconditional surrender is perfectly logical. It worked in Greece, and with the support of much of the UK’s economic, political, media, academic and administrative elites, surely they’ve got a good chance of steamrolling public option here?Casino_Royale said:
The most sustainable Remain solution would be for the EU to outbid May by offering a Remain deal that improves on Cameron’s offer with further mutual concessions on free movement with an admission that both sides got it wrong and both have learnt from the experience.OldKingCole said:
Inclined to agree, but a No Deal or chaotic Brexit will be the same.Casino_Royale said:
If Brexit is stopped before it is ever implemented we are heading for a very dark place.OldKingCole said:
'If it does happen I’d advocate scorched earthCasino_Royale said:
No-one brings the UK to heel. No-one.alex. said:RoyalBlue said:
The other people in that list only confirm what a totally fringe option a second referendum is for Conservatives. Those with something between their ears realise it would blow the party to smithereens.HYUFD said:I also see Sir John Major has joined Tory MPs like Anna Soubry, Sarah Wollaston, Guto Bebb and now Heidi Allen in backing a 'People's Vote' and a second EU referendum
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45690002?intlink_from_url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/cwlw3xz0lvvt/brexit&link_location=live-reporting-story
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45690898
Make no mistake.
However, they won’t do that. Because they have zero self awareness, aren’t capable of any form of magnanimity and are only fixated on overplaying their hand.
I also don’t see them winning many hearts and minds in Poland or Hungary either.
It might ‘work’ in the short-term but by sowing the wind they will eventually reap the whirlwind.0 -
Of course, and thanks.Dura_Ace said:
It's the neologism used in Francophone media for the hypothesis of France leaving the EU (France + Sortie).Nigelb said:
Frortie ?Dura_Ace said:
Grexit (along with Quitaly and Frortie) has never polled higher than 35%. The EU would work a lot harder to keep Greece in than the UK as, from a romantic and cultural perspective, it's a far more important component of the Paneuropean identity.Casino_Royale said:
Did it work in Greece? It’s a country now chock-full of resentment and hatred to the EU.
I also don’t see them winning many hearts and minds in Poland or Hungary either.
It might ‘work’ in the short-term but by sowing the wind they will eventually reap the whirlwind.
Is that a sexual activity prevalent in the navy ?
(You really ought to do an article on military terminology some day.)
The gentle souls on here can only withstand the mildest of anecdotes about adventures encountered on Pusser's War Canoes.
As for the terminology, I didn’t mean exclusively scatalogical... but there again that might make it a short article ?
0 -
This is profoundly embarrassing:
https://twitter.com/DawnHFoster/status/10460195640337653760 -
Rick Jolly* wrote a good book on Navy Slang:Nigelb said:
Of course, and thanks.Dura_Ace said:
It's the neologism used in Francophone media for the hypothesis of France leaving the EU (France + Sortie).Nigelb said:
Frortie ?Dura_Ace said:
Grexit (along with Quitaly and Frortie) has never polled higher than 35%. The EU would work a lot harder to keep Greece in than the UK as, from a romantic and cultural perspective, it's a far more important component of the Paneuropean identity.Casino_Royale said:
Did it work in Greece? It’s a country now chock-full of resentment and hatred to the EU.
I also don’t see them winning many hearts and minds in Poland or Hungary either.
It might ‘work’ in the short-term but by sowing the wind they will eventually reap the whirlwind.
Is that a sexual activity prevalent in the navy ?
(You really ought to do an article on military terminology some day.)
The gentle souls on here can only withstand the mildest of anecdotes about adventures encountered on Pusser's War Canoes.
As for the terminology, I didn’t mean exclusively scatalogical... but there again that might make it a short article ?
https://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/jackspeak-9781844861446/
*Who seemingly holds a unique accolade in being decorated by both sides for his role in a conflict. An inspiring man, who I met some years ago on a boozy night in Haslar.0 -
Jeez, who are the idiots that politicians have working in IT? Don’t they do the most basic of QA on anything any more?Tissue_Price said:This is profoundly embarrassing:
ttps://twitter.com/DawnHFoster/status/10460195640337653760 -
The last poll I saw was last year, showing a sharp upturn in Greek support for the EU, albeit from a low base. Poland and Hungary were positively keen. The views of the governments aren't always representative, although Fidesz in Hungary is still riding high.Casino_Royale said:
Did it work in Greece? It’s a country now chock-full of resentment and hatred to the EU.
I also don’t see them winning many hearts and minds in Poland or Hungary either.
It might ‘work’ in the short-term but by sowing the wind they will eventually reap the whirlwind.
http://www.pewglobal.org/2017/06/15/post-brexit-europeans-more-favorable-toward-eu/0 -
More than anything else, while it is bad IT, asking if that sort of thing could happen seems a pretty basic thing for even a non-IT person to ask before the thing gets rolled out.Sandpit said:
Jeez, who are the idiots that politicians have working in IT? Don’t they do the most basic of QA on anything any more?Tissue_Price said:This is profoundly embarrassing:
ttps://twitter.com/DawnHFoster/status/10460195640337653760 -
Well, it's the suppliers that are at fault here. It will be interesting to see the fallout (apparently login has now been disabled, so at least someone's in the office on a Saturday).Sandpit said:
Jeez, who are the idiots that politicians have working in IT? Don’t they do the most basic of QA on anything any more?Tissue_Price said:This is profoundly embarrassing:
ttps://twitter.com/DawnHFoster/status/10460195640337653760 -
Politicians and the internet....example #9574730....but we definitely need an internet regulator, have to have validated social media profiles, pron bans, backdoors into iPhones, etc etc etc...Sandpit said:
Jeez, who are the idiots that politicians have working in IT? Don’t they do the most basic of QA on anything any more?Tissue_Price said:This is profoundly embarrassing:
ttps://twitter.com/DawnHFoster/status/10460195640337653760 -
That's a reversion to type - the Daily Worker used to be famous for its good tips.volcanopete said:Any racing gambler needs to know that the Morning Star's racing tipster,Farringdon,is top of the Naps Table turning a pound into £34.03 on every nap.Beat the bookies with the Morning Star.
To respond to Jonathan, I disagree with the votes of no confidence (pointless gestures by a subset of local members), and think the vast majority of Labour members will be happy to reselect MPs if the MPs make it clear that they will in the end actually support a Labour government as currently led - by all means with dissent and exceptions (that's where the parallel with JC's own record is compelling).
If not, then they shouldn't seek to stand as Labour candidates, for everyone's sake - members, voters and the MPs themselves: a Labour candidate who doesn't want Labour to win is just being silly. In the same way, I think that no matter how often she disagrees with the leadership, if Anna Soubry confirms that she'll seek to support a continuing Conservative government, she'll be reselected by her constituency association as the Conservative candidate.
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https://twitter.com/evolvepolitics/status/1046035077203939328?s=19Sandpit said:
Jeez, who are the idiots that politicians have working in IT? Don’t they do the most basic of QA on anything any more?Tissue_Price said:This is profoundly embarrassing:
ttps://twitter.com/DawnHFoster/status/10460195640337653760 -
The Conservative Party or the app supplier?Foxy said:
https://twitter.com/evolvepolitics/status/1046035077203939328?s=19Sandpit said:
Jeez, who are the idiots that politicians have working in IT? Don’t they do the most basic of QA on anything any more?Tissue_Price said:This is profoundly embarrassing:
ttps://twitter.com/DawnHFoster/status/10460195640337653760 -
Presumably tha app supplier was acting as an agent of the Party.FrancisUrquhart said:
The Conservative Party or the app supplier?Foxy said:
https://twitter.com/evolvepolitics/status/1046035077203939328?s=19Sandpit said:
Jeez, who are the idiots that politicians have working in IT? Don’t they do the most basic of QA on anything any more?Tissue_Price said:This is profoundly embarrassing:
ttps://twitter.com/DawnHFoster/status/1046019564033765376
It will be interesting to see the links between contacts, it could show a bit of daylight on some murky worlds.0 -
Presumably though isnt it just the personal information they supplied to register for the conference - which in most cases might well be work emails and work mobiles rather than personal ones? I doubt they will have provided the mobiles of wives/mistresses/boyfriends? Still quite serious if it involves senior ministers personal contacts.Foxy said:
Presumably tha app supplier was acting as an agent of the Party.FrancisUrquhart said:
The Conservative Party or the app supplier?Foxy said:
https://twitter.com/evolvepolitics/status/1046035077203939328?s=19Sandpit said:
Jeez, who are the idiots that politicians have working in IT? Don’t they do the most basic of QA on anything any more?Tissue_Price said:This is profoundly embarrassing:
ttps://twitter.com/DawnHFoster/status/1046019564033765376
It will be interesting to see the links between contacts, it could show a bit of daylight on some murky worlds.
At least it won't be difficult to contact journos and politicians for comment on the story!0 -
https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1046039014195810305?s=21Foxy said:
Presumably tha app supplier was acting as an agent of the Party.FrancisUrquhart said:
The Conservative Party or the app supplier?Foxy said:
https://twitter.com/evolvepolitics/status/1046035077203939328?s=19Sandpit said:
Jeez, who are the idiots that politicians have working in IT? Don’t they do the most basic of QA on anything any more?Tissue_Price said:This is profoundly embarrassing:
ttps://twitter.com/DawnHFoster/status/1046019564033765376
It will be interesting to see the links between contacts, it could show a bit of daylight on some murky worlds.0 -
Is it prudent for her to have tweeted what she just did?Tissue_Price said:0 -
Big assumption about a load of people who are generally technically illiterate. It showed during the hacking scandal, how many Labour ministers hadn't listen to a word of the security advice.brendan16 said:
Presumably though isnt it just the personal information they supplied to register for the conference - which in most cases might well be work emails and work mobiles rather than personal ones? I doubt they will have provided the mobiles of wives/mistresses/boyfriends?Foxy said:
Presumably tha app supplier was acting as an agent of the Party.FrancisUrquhart said:
The Conservative Party or the app supplier?Foxy said:
https://twitter.com/evolvepolitics/status/1046035077203939328?s=19Sandpit said:
Jeez, who are the idiots that politicians have working in IT? Don’t they do the most basic of QA on anything any more?Tissue_Price said:This is profoundly embarrassing:
ttps://twitter.com/DawnHFoster/status/1046019564033765376
It will be interesting to see the links between contacts, it could show a bit of daylight on some murky worlds.
At least it won't be difficult to contact journos and politicians for comment on the story!0 -
I would have thought the Conservative Party has a case against the App supplier, however,FrancisUrquhart said:
The Conservative Party or the app supplier?Foxy said:
https://twitter.com/evolvepolitics/status/1046035077203939328?s=19Sandpit said:
Jeez, who are the idiots that politicians have working in IT? Don’t they do the most basic of QA on anything any more?Tissue_Price said:This is profoundly embarrassing:
ttps://twitter.com/DawnHFoster/status/1046019564033765376
Those whose details have been divulged have a case against the Conservative Party.0 -
No:MyBurningEars said:
Is it prudent for her to have tweeted what she just did?Tissue_Price said:
https://twitter.com/jamesrbuk/status/10460313238974423040 -
Opposition politicians have demanded answers following reports that one of the sexual harassment claims made against Alex Salmond was first investigated five years ago.
Nicola Sturgeon’s Scottish Government was urged to respond to the “serious revelation” that a complaint by a female member of staff was examined in 2013, five years before civil servants conducted a second investigation into her allegations of sexual misconduct.
https://www.scotsman.com/news/anger-over-claims-alex-salmond-was-first-investigated-in-2013-1-48072420 -
Looks like Fake news outlet evolve have also admitted to it....Tissue_Price said:
No:MyBurningEars said:
Is it prudent for her to have tweeted what she just did?Tissue_Price said:
https://twitter.com/jamesrbuk/status/10460313238974423040 -
Isn't this a bit like saying "my neighbour left their door unlocked when they went away, so I went in and stole some of their stuff just to show how stupid they were!"Foxy said:
https://twitter.com/evolvepolitics/status/1046035077203939328?s=19Sandpit said:
Jeez, who are the idiots that politicians have working in IT? Don’t they do the most basic of QA on anything any more?Tissue_Price said:This is profoundly embarrassing:
ttps://twitter.com/DawnHFoster/status/1046019564033765376
EDIT: Or what Tissue Price (or James Ball) said.0 -
Good afternoon, everyone.
F1: bit lucky with the Bottas bet. Didn't think he'd get pole, but had a good chance of second. Anyway, splendid start to the weekend, although I'm even more regretting not backing him to win each way at 8.5. One suspects his odds have shortened.0 -
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It's rather worse than letters fallling off the back of the stage.Tissue_Price said:This is profoundly embarrassing:
https://twitter.com/DawnHFoster/status/1046019564033765376
Everyone at Conference is going to be distracted by checking what they are supposedly texting.....0 -
That’s shocking. I’m doing some work with a competitor of whoever is the conference app supplier, I might have them give CCHQ a nudge in a couple of weeks...Tissue_Price said:
Well, it's the suppliers that are at fault here. It will be interesting to see the fallout (apparently login has now been disabled, so at least someone's in the office on a Saturday).Sandpit said:
Jeez, who are the idiots that politicians have working in IT? Don’t they do the most basic of QA on anything any more?Tissue_Price said:This is profoundly embarrassing:
ttps://twitter.com/DawnHFoster/status/1046019564033765376
Edit. Maybe let’s make it a couple of months, for the new CIO to get his or her feet under the desk. They’ll be looking for the new CIO next week.0 -
Well and also it affects journos and we all know how much the media love talking about the media. This could result in lots of column inches / breathless reporting.MarqueeMark said:
It's rather worse than letters fallling off the back of the stage.Tissue_Price said:This is profoundly embarrassing:
https://twitter.com/DawnHFoster/status/1046019564033765376
Everyone at Conference is going to be distracted by checking what they are supposedly texting.....0 -
If she logged into the app, clicked on Boris Johnson as a conference registrant and his email and phone number were listed on the app I don't see its her fault?MyBurningEars said:
Is it prudent for her to have tweeted what she just did?Tissue_Price said:0 -
Afternoon all
Interesting to read the special pleading of both Aaron and David on here today. There's little doubt there is a perception (accurate or otherwise) Labour has taken some form of advantage in terms of the non-Brexit political landscape.
As others have said, it's no use the Conservatives pointing out the holes in Labour plans if all they have to offer is more of the same because "more of the same" isn't going to be attractive to a lot of people who will vote FOR change without even caring what that change is or what it means because it will be something different (or at least promises to be).
As a non-Conservative, I'm also conscious that Aaron's piece is more about chasing the voters - the more successful political parties have persuaded the voters to come to them. If all the Conservatives are about is the preservation of themselves in office and all their methodology is based on looking to which focus groups or voting blocs can keep them there, then maybe it's time for some quality years in Opposition.
In any case, the rhetoric of improving justice will run up against the reality of Police station closures and falling Police numbers dictated by austerity.
The aspect of Corbyn that struck a real chord for me was his use of the term "human". He claimed a labour Government would be more "humane" and I liked that. Too often politics gets reduced to mechanistic overtones but in the end it should be about the good Governance of the country for the benefit of all its citizens.
The Conservative Government, while no doubt privately all good and kind people, doesn't exude empathy in large quantities. Some of its members, including, dare I say it the Prime Minister, seem less to lack the common touch as the human touch. I am regaled on here constantly by what a nice person Theresa May is in private (and I've heard the same from Tin Farron too) but that doesn't get conveyed in the public arena. There is a froideur, a reticence that we saw in the GE and still gets portrayed too strongly.0 -
Ladbrokes appears to be down.0
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That’s not what it sounds like, people were talking about being able to log in and post a message as someone else.brendan16 said:
If she logged into the app, clicked on Boris Johnson as a conference registrant and his email and phone number were listed on the app I don't see its her fault?MyBurningEars said:
Is it prudent for her to have tweeted what she just did?Tissue_Price said:
I’m guessing that they’ve done something really stupid like set the username and password as the email address, then asked people to change the password the first time they log in. So if you know the email address of someone who’s not used the app yet, you can log in as them and view their own profile.0 -
F1: Ladbrokes back up but markets only partly there.
Still very red season-long, but including off-book bets, I've just nudged into the green. Huzzah!0 -
One has to ask why did they need to have personal details in the app at all. In fact, is there really a need for an app.Sandpit said:
That’s not what it sounds like, people were talking about being able to log in and post a message as someone else.brendan16 said:
If she logged into the app, clicked on Boris Johnson as a conference registrant and his email and phone number were listed on the app I don't see its her fault?MyBurningEars said:
Is it prudent for her to have tweeted what she just did?Tissue_Price said:
I’m guessing that they’ve done something really stupid like set the username and password as the email address, then asked people to change the password the first time they log in. So if you know the email address of someone who’s not used the app yet, you can log in as them and view their own profile.
There does seem an obsession for having to make an app for everything these days, most of which is trash.0 -
Data leak at the Conservative Party conference? An app with insecure log-in details? This shambles wouldn't have happened when Norman Tebbit was party chairman.0
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LOL. True.JohnLoony said:Data leak at the Conservative Party conference? An app with insecure log-in details? This shambles wouldn't have happened when Norman Tebbit was party chairman.
0 -
F1: and back down again.
I may well end up writing the pre-race tosh tomorrow morning. So fret not if that be the case.0 -
New thread.0
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An excellent piece for me from the always readable Simon Jenkins:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/sep/28/take-control-brussels-london-whitehall-centralised
It's disappointing the LDs are so obsessed with stopping Brexit they aren't running with this which is frankly a damning indictment of our over-centralised State.0 -
If I was writing the PM's speech I would include two big ticket items:
1. £3000 worth of travel costs relief at basic rate, something only those who work benefit from. Loads of companies have travel loan programmes, it wouldn't be difficult to offer basic rate relief.
2. Mortgage interest relief at the basic rate for first time buyers for the first 5 years of a mortgage.
Fuck the deficit, there's no votes in fiscal continence at the moment. We need to win in 2022, even if it means a little bit less tax take.0 -
I’ll guess that the contact details are there to allow delegates to send each other ‘virtual’ business cards during the conference via the app, or similar functionality. Collecting details is useful for the organiser’s post-Conference reporting, to allow followup and feedback.FrancisUrquhart said:
One has to ask why did they need to have personal details in the app at all. In fact, is there really a need for an app.Sandpit said:
That’s not what it sounds like, people were talking about being able to log in and post a message as someone else.brendan16 said:
If she logged into the app, clicked on Boris Johnson as a conference registrant and his email and phone number were listed on the app I don't see its her fault?MyBurningEars said:
Is it prudent for her to have tweeted what she just did?Tissue_Price said:
I’m guessing that they’ve done something really stupid like set the username and password as the email address, then asked people to change the password the first time they log in. So if you know the email address of someone who’s not used the app yet, you can log in as them and view their own profile.
There does seem an obsession for having to make an app for everything these days, most of which is trash.
The app itself is very useful for the conference organiser, it allows them to see who attends each event and room, see who meets with each other, allows functionality like voting buttons in the meetings, social media integration etc. For the delegate, it provides them a schedule, notifies of changes of time and venue, allows delegates to message each other and exchange details etc.0 -
As MPs or in any kind of role with power yes. In terms of just being members I'm pretty easy going. I'm not generally the type calling for Blair to be thrown out the party. Unless we actually have a good and valid reason to do so I wouldn't want any MPs that are deselected to be thrown out the party as members. In Frank Fields case it was necessary but I'd accept him as a member no questions happily.Jonathan said:
So you oppose the return of Derek Hatton and would oppose the return of Galloway?TheJezziah said:
It isn't the membership that is being deselected. It is MPs that are actively creating bad press for the party and making it harder to get the party elected.Jonathan said:TheJezziah said:
As I said on another thread I was saying he would actively prefer a Tory government as I believe he would prefer a Tory government like Woodcock actively stated he would when he could talk more freely.Jonathan said:
With a few notable exceptions (maybe Frank Field), all Labour MPs would lose if they stood against their party on a point of principle. That's not the point.TheJezziah said:FPT
Chris Leslie strikes me as someone more of the calibre of Simon Danczuk rather than the members of the SDP, unless people have billed them as much bigger than they were.
Also I believe people should get to vote for what they really want, so if there really are thousands in Chris Leslie's constituency who are voting for him specifically they deserve the chance to vote for him again. I'll believe it when I see it though.
The point is that Labour needs to win under FPTP by being attractive to just enough voters to win seats. If you have a bunch of independent Labour MPs around the country each taking 5-20% of the vote with them... Bang! There goes your majority.
Much better to realise that the people you're calling Tories are Labour too, just a different strand, and the fact they might think differently is a strength. They can reach people that Labour needs that Corbyn can't.
Chris Leslie is not a strength, he is not a difference of opinion or someone adding to the mixture, he is someone who actively does not want the party to succeed with the leader its members want it to have.
Put it another way then, I don't mind as much having the Corbyn types remaining as MPs opposing Labour to some degree, it is the George Galloway types after Iraq. From the opposite ideological angle but does that make more sense now?
I wouldn't even bar them from holding any position on the Labour Party like I could see a valid reason to do if Galloway or Degsy were let back in.0 -
Thanks. I might pick that upFoxy said:
Rick Jolly* wrote a good book on Navy Slang:Nigelb said:
Of course, and thanks.Dura_Ace said:
It's the neologism used in Francophone media for the hypothesis of France leaving the EU (France + Sortie).Nigelb said:
Frortie ?Dura_Ace said:
Grexit (along with Quitaly and Frortie) has never polled higher than 35%. The EU would work a lot harder to keep Greece in than the UK as, from a romantic and cultural perspective, it's a far more important component of the Paneuropean identity.Casino_Royale said:
Did it work in Greece? It’s a country now chock-full of resentment and hatred to the EU.
I also don’t see them winning many hearts and minds in Poland or Hungary either.
It might ‘work’ in the short-term but by sowing the wind they will eventually reap the whirlwind.
Is that a sexual activity prevalent in the navy ?
(You really ought to do an article on military terminology some day.)
The gentle souls on here can only withstand the mildest of anecdotes about adventures encountered on Pusser's War Canoes.
As for the terminology, I didn’t mean exclusively scatalogical... but there again that might make it a short article ?
https://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/jackspeak-9781844861446/
*Who seemingly holds a unique accolade in being decorated by both sides for his role in a conflict. An inspiring man, who I met some years ago on a boozy night in Haslar.
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This discussion has been closed.