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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The betting chances of LAB winning the next election edge down to the lowest level since GE2017
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I'm not sure whether this price change is very significant or not, but I find it somewhat surprising. One would have thought that Theresa May hitting some bumps in her Brexit road, and the Labour conference suggesting that Labour are making some effort to seem serious, would have nudged the betting in the opposite direction.0
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Not so surprsing - Labour are barely ahead and often behind in recent polling. Nobody has come back from that.
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Hey! My stolen first made pretty much the same point. The sooner we get VAR the better.Richard_Nabavi said:I'm not sure whether this price change is very significant or not, but I find it somewhat surprising. One would have thought that Theresa May hitting some bumps in her Brexit road, and the Labour conference suggesting that Labour are making some effort to seem serious, would have nudged the betting in the opposite direction.
Labour got through the Conference without any serious own goals. The Tories have yet to so do.0 -
Distracted Boyfriend meme is sexist, rules Swedish ad watchdog
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/sep/26/distracted-boyfriend-meme-sexist-swedish-advertising0 -
I actually thought this was much the more interesting part of the story:Floater said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-455911030 -
Still lots of doubt, might not have been the Russian state.....Mr S. Milne of North London...Floater said:0 -
The original passport was a CIA fake, and the whole operation has been planned for many years as part of an international Jewish conspiracy.FrancisUrquhart said:
Still lots of doubt, might not have been the Russian state.....Mr S. Milne of North London...Floater said:
Mr C. Murray of some random place where the laws of reality don't apply.0 -
Given the higher than normal number of imponderables ahead of the next election: Brexit, timing, party leader identities, I think that the betting odds say more about those who are betting than they do about the current political situation.Richard_Nabavi said:I'm not sure whether this price change is very significant or not, but I find it somewhat surprising. One would have thought that Theresa May hitting some bumps in her Brexit road, and the Labour conference suggesting that Labour are making some effort to seem serious, would have nudged the betting in the opposite direction.
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How does renationalization work then?
What happens to the share holders of British Gas for example if Jezza decides to take it back into public control?0 -
I do play this market on Betfair. You don’t have to tie up money indefinitely if you lay back and forth against sentiment,
I lay, I don’t back. That way you can build up nice positions on the non-trivial possibility of a split of one or other main party (and from time to time lay that too to excitable centrist dads).0 -
The odds are against a Labour majority or even Labour winning most seats.
However Corbyn still has a strong chance of becoming PM with SNP support and support from the SNP on getting key legislation through.0 -
They lose out like the greedy capitalist pigs they are, after exploiting public utilities for their own enrichment why should they get any compensation cry Corbynistas?GIN1138 said:How does renationalization work then?
What happens to the share holders of British Gas for example if Jezza decides to take it back into public control?0 -
So I've been away from news contact all day long - how was Corbyn's speech? Barnstorming? Terrifying?0
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They lose all their money.GIN1138 said:How does renationalization work then?
What happens to the share holders of British Gas for example if Jezza decides to take it back into public control?
And Labour's supporters go wild with enthusiasm until they realise the owners in question were their pension funds.0 -
Unmasked by a bunch of journalists who, and let's assume they are right, have scooped the British government and the police. Why did the face-recognition technology they are so keen to unleash on Joe Public fail to match the cctv pictures to a finite number of Russian hoods? Why was the identification not made on landing? Do we not even bother to watch Aeroflot flights into London? Did a previous Home Secretary cut MI5's budget? Was Bodyguard a documentary?Floater said:
Oh no, it's all right. It says in the Telegraph that plod does know their names, and presumably decided not to announce them for, well, reasons.0 -
He promised no more reckless wars like Iraq and Libya but still to act tough with Myanmar and Israel and bring peace to Syria with his Gandalf stare!kle4 said:So I've been away from news contact all day long - how was Corbyn's speech? Barnstorming? Terrifying?
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I expect a Corbyn government would nationalise pension funds too. This has been done in both Poland and Hungary already and could prove a very nice earner.ydoethur said:
They lose all their money.GIN1138 said:How does renationalization work then?
What happens to the share holders of British Gas for example if Jezza decides to take it back into public control?
And Labour's supporters go wild with enthusiasm until they realise the owners in question were their pension funds.0 -
No idea - watched the last three episodes of bodyguardkle4 said:So I've been away from news contact all day long - how was Corbyn's speech? Barnstorming? Terrifying?
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Thanks HYUFD and ydoethur
So, if someone has shares in a utility company and it really did look like a Jezza government was imminent it might be an idea to "Sell, Sell, Sell" then?
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Have they costed that though?AlastairMeeks said:
I expect a Corbyn government would nationalise pension funds too. This has been done in both Poland and Hungary already and could prove a very nice earner.ydoethur said:
They lose all their money.GIN1138 said:How does renationalization work then?
What happens to the share holders of British Gas for example if Jezza decides to take it back into public control?
And Labour's supporters go wild with enthusiasm until they realise the owners in question were their pension funds.
Or is it several billion they haven't allowed for?0 -
Good grief. Really? That sounds like an absolute recipe for long term economic disaster....AlastairMeeks said:
I expect a Corbyn government would nationalise pension funds too. This has been done in both Poland and Hungary already and could prove a very nice earner.ydoethur said:
They lose all their money.GIN1138 said:How does renationalization work then?
What happens to the share holders of British Gas for example if Jezza decides to take it back into public control?
And Labour's supporters go wild with enthusiasm until they realise the owners in question were their pension funds.0 -
But a lot of short term capital to spend on largesse.Mortimer said:
Good grief. Really? That sounds like an absolute recipe for long term economic disaster....AlastairMeeks said:
I expect a Corbyn government would nationalise pension funds too. This has been done in both Poland and Hungary already and could prove a very nice earner.ydoethur said:
They lose all their money.GIN1138 said:How does renationalization work then?
What happens to the share holders of British Gas for example if Jezza decides to take it back into public control?
And Labour's supporters go wild with enthusiasm until they realise the owners in question were their pension funds.0 -
Of course teachers don’t have pension funds. We rely on the state keeping its word/not going bankrupt...ydoethur said:
They lose all their money.GIN1138 said:How does renationalization work then?
What happens to the share holders of British Gas for example if Jezza decides to take it back into public control?
And Labour's supporters go wild with enthusiasm until they realise the owners in question were their pension funds.0 -
Comrade Corbyn takes all your assets and money and gives you an allowance to live in his UK idea of VenezeulaMortimer said:
Good grief. Really? That sounds like an absolute recipe for long term economic disaster....AlastairMeeks said:
I expect a Corbyn government would nationalise pension funds too. This has been done in both Poland and Hungary already and could prove a very nice earner.ydoethur said:
They lose all their money.GIN1138 said:How does renationalization work then?
What happens to the share holders of British Gas for example if Jezza decides to take it back into public control?
And Labour's supporters go wild with enthusiasm until they realise the owners in question were their pension funds.0 -
Renewable Power to the People!!!!
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When the Guardian's taking the piss because you're being too PC, you know you've screwed up.FrancisUrquhart said:Distracted Boyfriend meme is sexist, rules Swedish ad watchdog
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/sep/26/distracted-boyfriend-meme-sexist-swedish-advertising0 -
That would be...something to see.HYUFD said:
He promised no more reckless wars like Iraq and Libya but still to act tough with Myanmar and Israel and bring peace to Syria with his Gandalf stare!kle4 said:So I've been away from news contact all day long - how was Corbyn's speech? Barnstorming? Terrifying?
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Funny how he missed out on his naughty list of brutal regimes Venezuela.....Big_G_NorthWales said:
Comrade Corbyn takes all your assets and money and gives you an allowance to live in his UK idea of VenezuelaMortimer said:
Good grief. Really? That sounds like an absolute recipe for long term economic disaster....AlastairMeeks said:
I expect a Corbyn government would nationalise pension funds too. This has been done in both Poland and Hungary already and could prove a very nice earner.ydoethur said:
They lose all their money.GIN1138 said:How does renationalization work then?
What happens to the share holders of British Gas for example if Jezza decides to take it back into public control?
And Labour's supporters go wild with enthusiasm until they realise the owners in question were their pension funds.0 -
It is cover the march of the loft laggers ?AlastairMeeks said:
But a lot of short term capital to spend on largesse.Mortimer said:
Good grief. Really? That sounds like an absolute recipe for long term economic disaster....AlastairMeeks said:
I expect a Corbyn government would nationalise pension funds too. This has been done in both Poland and Hungary already and could prove a very nice earner.ydoethur said:
They lose all their money.GIN1138 said:How does renationalization work then?
What happens to the share holders of British Gas for example if Jezza decides to take it back into public control?
And Labour's supporters go wild with enthusiasm until they realise the owners in question were their pension funds.0 -
I'd nationalise pension schemes....they only seem to be an effective means to make rich people richer as far as I can see...Mortimer said:
Good grief. Really? That sounds like an absolute recipe for long term economic disaster....AlastairMeeks said:
I expect a Corbyn government would nationalise pension funds too. This has been done in both Poland and Hungary already and could prove a very nice earner.ydoethur said:
They lose all their money.GIN1138 said:How does renationalization work then?
What happens to the share holders of British Gas for example if Jezza decides to take it back into public control?
And Labour's supporters go wild with enthusiasm until they realise the owners in question were their pension funds.
we save approx 6k a month now we are both back in the UK and working...I'd rather pay my fair share of tax rather than find some way of avoiding it. People with money hate paying taxes....
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Brett Kavanaugh's price has swung back. It is currently 8/11 not to be confirmed and even money to be confirmed. This afternoon, not confirmed was backed in from 5/6 to 1/5 and perhaps even shorter. What's changed in the last couple of hours? Or is it just that punters (and odds-compilers) have remembered that there is no popular vote, just the senate which will presumably split along party lines.0
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It is instructive to look at what happened in Argentina when the government renationalised (or appropriated) the national oil company YPF. They passed a law returning it to state ownership but were - inevitably - sued in various jurisdictions. Eventually they discovered that there were consequences and grudgingly paid up to shareholders.GIN1138 said:Thanks HYUFD and ydoethur
So, if someone has shares in a utility company and it really did look like a Jezza government was imminent it might be an idea to "Sell, Sell, Sell" then?
I would expect the same to happen here.0 -
Jesus H Christ...Hazard is off the radar good..0
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Why would the state directing personal savings towards the preferred projects of politicians be a problem?Mortimer said:
Good grief. Really? That sounds like an absolute recipe for long term economic disaster....AlastairMeeks said:
I expect a Corbyn government would nationalise pension funds too. This has been done in both Poland and Hungary already and could prove a very nice earner.ydoethur said:
They lose all their money.GIN1138 said:How does renationalization work then?
What happens to the share holders of British Gas for example if Jezza decides to take it back into public control?
And Labour's supporters go wild with enthusiasm until they realise the owners in question were their pension funds.0 -
Republicans have made it clear they are going to steam ahead with this nomination no matter what.DecrepitJohnL said:Brett Kavanaugh's price has swung back. It is currently 8/11 not to be confirmed and even money to be confirmed. This afternoon, not confirmed was backed in from 5/6 to 1/5 and perhaps even shorter. What's changed in the last couple of hours? Or is it just that punters (and odds-compilers) have remembered that there is no popular vote, just the senate which will presumably split along party lines.
Jeff Flake had been scheduled to give a speech on the floor of the Senate and everyone anticipated a announcement that he'd be a no vote but instead it was a typical Sad Jeff Flake moment.0 -
Mind you, it would be funny to see outraged pb Tories cheering on the European Court of Human Rights.rcs1000 said:
It is instructive to look at what happened in Argentina when the government renationalised (or appropriated) the national oil company YPF. They passed a law returning it to state ownership but were - inevitably - sued in various jurisdictions. Eventually they discovered that there were consequences and grudgingly paid up to shareholders.GIN1138 said:Thanks HYUFD and ydoethur
So, if someone has shares in a utility company and it really did look like a Jezza government was imminent it might be an idea to "Sell, Sell, Sell" then?
I would expect the same to happen here.0 -
The denials are getting louder. It can only mean one thing.
https://twitter.com/sajidjavid/status/10450203112075100160 -
Corbyn's speech was well received at the time but after several hours, critics from the right have at last worked out what they don't like about it.kle4 said:So I've been away from news contact all day long - how was Corbyn's speech? Barnstorming? Terrifying?
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“I always think you should not look at the next contest through the prism of the last one”
Funny you say that, because I have thought last elections are linked to the next one, for example 97 especially bad for the Tories because tired and unfresh government cheated death in 92. Another example, what happened to the CDU when Kohl wasn’t being as honest as the opposition about cost of unification, in that example and Tories in ninetytwo what was said to win was remembered by voters, who react to the feeling they’ve been had.0 -
Because comrade a lot of those personal savings are done by greedy, narrow minded, selfish, self obsessed, penny pinching individuals who are just mean spirited types, and mostly probably vote Tory..but if they vote Labour are hypocritesrcs1000 said:
Why would the state directing personal savings towards the preferred projects of politicians be a problem?Mortimer said:
Good grief. Really? That sounds like an absolute recipe for long term economic disaster....AlastairMeeks said:
I expect a Corbyn government would nationalise pension funds too. This has been done in both Poland and Hungary already and could prove a very nice earner.ydoethur said:
They lose all their money.GIN1138 said:How does renationalization work then?
What happens to the share holders of British Gas for example if Jezza decides to take it back into public control?
And Labour's supporters go wild with enthusiasm until they realise the owners in question were their pension funds.
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Sell, sell, sell would make nationalisation cheaper, of course.GIN1138 said:Thanks HYUFD and ydoethur
So, if someone has shares in a utility company and it really did look like a Jezza government was imminent it might be an idea to "Sell, Sell, Sell" then?0 -
Labour were very cautious with their manifesto at the last election given Corbyn was the leader.
I think the next election should Corbyn still be leader and his shadow chancellor remain in post, the manifesto will be of a very ideologically left-wing hue. Maybe they needed time to take full control of the Labour party and only now are we seeing the extremist dogma being packaged as policy.
I don't think past election campaigns can be a guide to a future contest as the dynamics will be different. Surely the type of policies being advocated will guarantee a split in the Labour party will be deeper and wider than many perceive possible.0 -
Very sound Tory principle that A1P1.AlastairMeeks said:
Mind you, it would be funny to see outraged pb Tories cheering on the European Court of Human Rights.rcs1000 said:
It is instructive to look at what happened in Argentina when the government renationalised (or appropriated) the national oil company YPF. They passed a law returning it to state ownership but were - inevitably - sued in various jurisdictions. Eventually they discovered that there were consequences and grudgingly paid up to shareholders.GIN1138 said:Thanks HYUFD and ydoethur
So, if someone has shares in a utility company and it really did look like a Jezza government was imminent it might be an idea to "Sell, Sell, Sell" then?
I would expect the same to happen here.0 -
rcs1000 said:
Why would the state directing personal savings towards the preferred projects of politicians be a problem?Mortimer said:
Good grief. Really? That sounds like an absolute recipe for long term economic disaster....AlastairMeeks said:
I expect a Corbyn government would nationalise pension funds too. This has been done in both Poland and Hungary already and could prove a very nice earner.ydoethur said:
They lose all their money.GIN1138 said:How does renationalization work then?
What happens to the share holders of British Gas for example if Jezza decides to take it back into public control?
And Labour's supporters go wild with enthusiasm until they realise the owners in question were their pension funds.
Anti-libertarians unite?0 -
I suspect you are conflating two thingstyson said:
I'd nationalise pension schemes....they only seem to be an effective means to make rich people richer as far as I can see...Mortimer said:
Good grief. Really? That sounds like an absolute recipe for long term economic disaster....AlastairMeeks said:
I expect a Corbyn government would nationalise pension funds too. This has been done in both Poland and Hungary already and could prove a very nice earner.ydoethur said:
They lose all their money.GIN1138 said:How does renationalization work then?
What happens to the share holders of British Gas for example if Jezza decides to take it back into public control?
And Labour's supporters go wild with enthusiasm until they realise the owners in question were their pension funds.
we save approx 6k a month now we are both back in the UK and working...I'd rather pay my fair share of tax rather than find some way of avoiding it. People with money hate paying taxes....
There’s an argument on restricting or eliminating incentives to save for the wealthy (although others argue saving is intrinsically a good thing)
But are you suggesting expropriation of assets people have saved in the past? And why should that include only pension funds and not, for example, portfolios of buy to let properties?0 -
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Presumably you’ve voluntarily paid more tax this year? You’d be one of just 200 people to do so...tyson said:
Because comrade a lot of those personal savings are done by greedy, narrow minded, selfish, self obsessed, penny pinching individuals who are just mean spirited types, and mostly probably vote Tory..but if they vote Labour are hypocritesrcs1000 said:
Why would the state directing personal savings towards the preferred projects of politicians be a problem?Mortimer said:
Good grief. Really? That sounds like an absolute recipe for long term economic disaster....AlastairMeeks said:
I expect a Corbyn government would nationalise pension funds too. This has been done in both Poland and Hungary already and could prove a very nice earner.ydoethur said:
They lose all their money.GIN1138 said:How does renationalization work then?
What happens to the share holders of British Gas for example if Jezza decides to take it back into public control?
And Labour's supporters go wild with enthusiasm until they realise the owners in question were their pension funds.0 -
My dear fellow, you don't seriously think that a bunch of journalists have access to all those internal and undoubtedly genuine Russian state databases, do you?DecrepitJohnL said:
Unmasked by a bunch of journalists who, and let's assume they are right, have scooped the British government and the police. Why did the face-recognition technology they are so keen to unleash on Joe Public fail to match the cctv pictures to a finite number of Russian hoods? Why was the identification not made on landing? Do we not even bother to watch Aeroflot flights into London? Did a previous Home Secretary cut MI5's budget? Was Bodyguard a documentary?Floater said:
Oh no, it's all right. It says in the Telegraph that plod does know their names, and presumably decided not to announce them for, well, reasons.
Can I sell you some McDonnell-proof investments?0 -
Or, more to the point, NHS and teachers' very generous pension schemes?Charles said:
I suspect you are conflating two thingstyson said:
I'd nationalise pension schemes....they only seem to be an effective means to make rich people richer as far as I can see...Mortimer said:
Good grief. Really? That sounds like an absolute recipe for long term economic disaster....AlastairMeeks said:
I expect a Corbyn government would nationalise pension funds too. This has been done in both Poland and Hungary already and could prove a very nice earner.ydoethur said:
They lose all their money.GIN1138 said:How does renationalization work then?
What happens to the share holders of British Gas for example if Jezza decides to take it back into public control?
And Labour's supporters go wild with enthusiasm until they realise the owners in question were their pension funds.
we save approx 6k a month now we are both back in the UK and working...I'd rather pay my fair share of tax rather than find some way of avoiding it. People with money hate paying taxes....
There’s an argument on restricting or eliminating incentives to save for the wealthy (although others argue saving is intrinsically a good thing)
But are you suggesting expropriation of assets people have saved in the past? And why should that include only pension funds and not, for example, portfolios of buy to let properties?0 -
That goal was pure magictyson said:Jesus H Christ...Hazard is off the radar good..
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I do not understand your commentwilliamglenn said:The denials are getting louder. It can only mean one thing.
https://twitter.com/sajidjavid/status/10450203112075100160 -
The old standby, never believe anything until it has been officially denied.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do not understand your commentwilliamglenn said:The denials are getting louder. It can only mean one thing.
https://twitter.com/sajidjavid/status/1045020311207510016
Though I don't know if it necessarily applies here, because a second referendum has been consistently denied, and I'm not sure it being said louder automatically counts toward anything.0 -
He’s implying that the lady* protests too muchBig_G_NorthWales said:
I do not understand your commentwilliamglenn said:The denials are getting louder. It can only mean one thing.
https://twitter.com/sajidjavid/status/1045020311207510016
* per last thread that description is in no way exclusionary and anyone who wishes to self identify as an excessive protestor is welcome to do so0 -
Expropriation is surely the wrong word to describe nationalisation of pension funds.Charles said:
I suspect you are conflating two thingstyson said:
I'd nationalise pension schemes....they only seem to be an effective means to make rich people richer as far as I can see...Mortimer said:
Good grief. Really? That sounds like an absolute recipe for long term economic disaster....AlastairMeeks said:
I expect a Corbyn government would nationalise pension funds too. This has been done in both Poland and Hungary already and could prove a very nice earner.ydoethur said:
They lose all their money.GIN1138 said:How does renationalization work then?
What happens to the share holders of British Gas for example if Jezza decides to take it back into public control?
And Labour's supporters go wild with enthusiasm until they realise the owners in question were their pension funds.
we save approx 6k a month now we are both back in the UK and working...I'd rather pay my fair share of tax rather than find some way of avoiding it. People with money hate paying taxes....
There’s an argument on restricting or eliminating incentives to save for the wealthy (although others argue saving is intrinsically a good thing)
But are you suggesting expropriation of assets people have saved in the past? And why should that include only pension funds and not, for example, portfolios of buy to let properties?
An indivudual's pension pot would not be lost to them, simply managed by (and potentially for the benefit of) the state.
Now, I appreciate that there will be genuine concerns about future performance (although privately run pension schemes have often performed very poorly tbf) but that's not the same as expropriation.0 -
William is convinced that more denials mean a #peoplesbetrayal / #peoplesvote is more likely....Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do not understand your commentwilliamglenn said:The denials are getting louder. It can only mean one thing.
https://twitter.com/sajidjavid/status/1045020311207510016
I can’t wait for us to leave - the explanation of how this will hasten our joining the Euro will be unspoofable.0 -
I don't believe him, and as soon as we have a withdrawal agreement, his argument about a second referendum undermining negotiations will be void.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do not understand your commentwilliamglenn said:The denials are getting louder. It can only mean one thing.
https://twitter.com/sajidjavid/status/10450203112075100160 -
To be fair, it is sexist, demeaning both make and female. It is however quite funny by means of highlighting such sexism and much humour is based on transgression of social norms.FrancisUrquhart said:Distracted Boyfriend meme is sexist, rules Swedish ad watchdog
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/sep/26/distracted-boyfriend-meme-sexist-swedish-advertising
in other news:
It looks like Bellingcat is the British Fancy Bears...0 -
Expropriation might be slightly too generous.Benpointer said:
Expropriation is surely the wrong word to describe nationalisation of pension funds.Charles said:
I suspect you are conflating two thingstyson said:
I'd nationalise pension schemes....they only seem to be an effective means to make rich people richer as far as I can see...Mortimer said:
Good grief. Really? That sounds like an absolute recipe for long term economic disaster....AlastairMeeks said:
I expect a Corbyn government would nationalise pension funds too. This has been done in both Poland and Hungary already and could prove a very nice earner.ydoethur said:
They lose all their money.GIN1138 said:How does renationalization work then?
What happens to the share holders of British Gas for example if Jezza decides to take it back into public control?
And Labour's supporters go wild with enthusiasm until they realise the owners in question were their pension funds.
we save approx 6k a month now we are both back in the UK and working...I'd rather pay my fair share of tax rather than find some way of avoiding it. People with money hate paying taxes....
There’s an argument on restricting or eliminating incentives to save for the wealthy (although others argue saving is intrinsically a good thing)
But are you suggesting expropriation of assets people have saved in the past? And why should that include only pension funds and not, for example, portfolios of buy to let properties?
An indivudual's pension pot would not be lost to them, simply managed by (and potentially for the benefit of) the state.
Now, I appreciate that there will be genuine concerns about future performance (although privately run pension schemes have often performed very poorly tbf) but that's not the same as expropriation.
It would be theft.0 -
We've already had that - if we leave it means disaster, which therefore means a hasty rejoining surge and thus Euro membership. Staying in on the same terms might not mean that.Mortimer said:
William is convinced that more denials mean a #peoplesbetrayal / #peoplesvote is more likely....Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do not understand your commentwilliamglenn said:The denials are getting louder. It can only mean one thing.
https://twitter.com/sajidjavid/status/1045020311207510016
I can’t wait for us to leave - the explanation of how this will hasten our joining the Euro will be unspoofable.0 -
How so?!Mortimer said:
Expropriation might be slightly too generous.Benpointer said:
Expropriation is surely the wrong word to describe nationalisation of pension funds.Charles said:
I suspect you are conflating two thingstyson said:
I'd nationalise pension schemes....they only seem to be an effective means to make rich people richer as far as I can see...Mortimer said:
Good grief. Really? That sounds like an absolute recipe for long term economic disaster....AlastairMeeks said:
I expect a Corbyn government would nationalise pension funds too. This has been done in both Poland and Hungary already and could prove a very nice earner.ydoethur said:
They lose all their money.GIN1138 said:How does renationalization work then?
What happens to the share holders of British Gas for example if Jezza decides to take it back into public control?
And Labour's supporters go wild with enthusiasm until they realise the owners in question were their pension funds.
we save approx 6k a month now we are both back in the UK and working...I'd rather pay my fair share of tax rather than find some way of avoiding it. People with money hate paying taxes....
There’s an argument on restricting or eliminating incentives to save for the wealthy (although others argue saving is intrinsically a good thing)
But are you suggesting expropriation of assets people have saved in the past? And why should that include only pension funds and not, for example, portfolios of buy to let properties?
An indivudual's pension pot would not be lost to them, simply managed by (and potentially for the benefit of) the state.
Now, I appreciate that there will be genuine concerns about future performance (although privately run pension schemes have often performed very poorly tbf) but that's not the same as expropriation.
It would be theft.0 -
I will put it down to William's desperation. A second referendum is not going to happen. Majority in HOC against anyway. Last night Carwyn Jones, Wales First Minister, and Stephen Kinnock both publically ruled it out adding to the many labour voiceskle4 said:
The old standby, never believe anything until it has been officially denied.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do not understand your commentwilliamglenn said:The denials are getting louder. It can only mean one thing.
https://twitter.com/sajidjavid/status/1045020311207510016
Though I don't know if it necessarily applies here, because a second referendum has been consistently denied, and I'm not sure it being said louder automatically counts toward anything.0 -
The thing is you cannot accept a lost causewilliamglenn said:
I don't believe him, and as soon as we have a withdrawal agreement, his argument about a second referendum undermining negotiations will be void.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do not understand your commentwilliamglenn said:The denials are getting louder. It can only mean one thing.
https://twitter.com/sajidjavid/status/10450203112075100160 -
Because pensions belong to the individual. If the state ‘takes them over’, then they are stealing.Benpointer said:
How so?!Mortimer said:
Expropriation might be slightly too generous.Benpointer said:
Expropriation is surely the wrong word to describe nationalisation of pension funds.Charles said:
I suspect you are conflating two thingstyson said:
I'd nationalise pension schemes....they only seem to be an effective means to make rich people richer as far as I can see...Mortimer said:
Good grief. Really? That sounds like an absolute recipe for long term economic disaster....AlastairMeeks said:
I expect a Corbyn government would nationalise pension funds too. This has been done in both Poland and Hungary already and could prove a very nice earner.ydoethur said:
They lose all their money.GIN1138 said:How does renationalization work then?
What happens to the share holders of British Gas for example if Jezza decides to take it back into public control?
And Labour's supporters go wild with enthusiasm until they realise the owners in question were their pension funds.
we save approx 6k a month now we are both back in the UK and working...I'd rather pay my fair share of tax rather than find some way of avoiding it. People with money hate paying taxes....
There’s an argument on restricting or eliminating incentives to save for the wealthy (although others argue saving is intrinsically a good thing)
But are you suggesting expropriation of assets people have saved in the past? And why should that include only pension funds and not, for example, portfolios of buy to let properties?
An indivudual's pension pot would not be lost to them, simply managed by (and potentially for the benefit of) the state.
Now, I appreciate that there will be genuine concerns about future performance (although privately run pension schemes have often performed very poorly tbf) but that's not the same as expropriation.
It would be theft.0 -
If No Deal I think a second referendum is highly likely, provided a deal, or at least a withdrawal agreement and transition period in which a FTA deal can be negotiated, I think a second referendum will be avoidedBig_G_NorthWales said:
I will put it down to William's desperation. A second referendum is not going to happen. Majority in HOC against anyway. Last night Carwyn Jones, Wales First Minister, and Stephen Kinnock both publically ruled it out adding to the many labour voiceskle4 said:
The old standby, never believe anything until it has been officially denied.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do not understand your commentwilliamglenn said:The denials are getting louder. It can only mean one thing.
https://twitter.com/sajidjavid/status/1045020311207510016
Though I don't know if it necessarily applies here, because a second referendum has been consistently denied, and I'm not sure it being said louder automatically counts toward anything.0 -
kle4 said:
We've already had that - if we leave it means disaster, which therefore means a hasty rejoining surge and thus Euro membership. Staying in on the same terms might not mean that.Mortimer said:
William is convinced that more denials mean a #peoplesbetrayal / #peoplesvote is more likely....Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do not understand your commentwilliamglenn said:The denials are getting louder. It can only mean one thing.
https://twitter.com/sajidjavid/status/1045020311207510016
I can’t wait for us to leave - the explanation of how this will hasten our joining the Euro will be unspoofable.
To join thriving Eurozone economies like Greece with 20% unemployment, Spain with 16% unemployment and Italy with 10% unemployment you mean?
In any case that is not really reality, EU officials have made clear if we voted to rejoin the EU while we would lose our rebate, fair enough as that was exclusive to the UK, we would not be required to join the Euro or Schengen which is also only fair as several existing EU nations are outside the Euro and Schengen
0 -
You do post some rubbish sometimes. If you have £100k pension pot in XYZ plc pension scheme and that scheme were to be nationalised, you still have £100k in your pension pot the next day. The only difference is that it's become more secure since it it backed by the state not subject to the continued viability of XYZ plc.Mortimer said:
Because pensions belong to the individual. If the state ‘takes them over’, then they are stealing.Benpointer said:
How so?!Mortimer said:
Expropriation might be slightly too generous.Benpointer said:
Expropriation is surely the wrong word to describe nationalisation of pension funds.Charles said:
I suspect you are conflating two thingstyson said:
I'd nationalise pension schemes....they only seem to be an effective means to make rich people richer as far as I can see...Mortimer said:
Good grief. Really? That sounds like an absolute recipe for long term economic disaster....AlastairMeeks said:
I expect a Corbyn government would nationalise pension funds too. This has been done in both Poland and Hungary already and could prove a very nice earner.ydoethur said:
They lose all their money.GIN1138 said:How does renationalization work then?
What happens to the share holders of British Gas for example if Jezza decides to take it back into public control?
And Labour's supporters go wild with enthusiasm until they realise the owners in question were their pension funds.
we save approx 6k a month now we are both back in the UK and working...I'd rather pay my fair share of tax rather than find some way of avoiding it. People with money hate paying taxes....
There’s an argument on restricting or eliminating incentives to save for the wealthy (although others argue saving is intrinsically a good thing)
But are you suggesting expropriation of assets people have saved in the past? And why should that include only pension funds and not, for example, portfolios of buy to let properties?
An indivudual's pension pot would not be lost to them, simply managed by (and potentially for the benefit of) the state.
Now, I appreciate that there will be genuine concerns about future performance (although privately run pension schemes have often performed very poorly tbf) but that's not the same as expropriation.
It would be theft.0 -
Provided Corbyn does not pass a law prohibiting compensation, in the UK Parliament is sovereign, we have no written constitution like Argentinarcs1000 said:
It is instructive to look at what happened in Argentina when the government renationalised (or appropriated) the national oil company YPF. They passed a law returning it to state ownership but were - inevitably - sued in various jurisdictions. Eventually they discovered that there were consequences and grudgingly paid up to shareholders.GIN1138 said:Thanks HYUFD and ydoethur
So, if someone has shares in a utility company and it really did look like a Jezza government was imminent it might be an idea to "Sell, Sell, Sell" then?
I would expect the same to happen here.
0 -
You may just agree with me on this but the most recent polling I saw was that Canada or No deal accounted for nearly 50%.HYUFD said:
If No Deal I think a second referendum is highly likely, provided a deal, or at least a withdrawal agreement and transition period in which a FTA deal can be negotiated, I think a second referendum will be avoidedBig_G_NorthWales said:
I will put it down to William's desperation. A second referendum is not going to happen. Majority in HOC against anyway. Last night Carwyn Jones, Wales First Minister, and Stephen Kinnock both publically ruled it out adding to the many labour voiceskle4 said:
The old standby, never believe anything until it has been officially denied.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do not understand your commentwilliamglenn said:The denials are getting louder. It can only mean one thing.
https://twitter.com/sajidjavid/status/1045020311207510016
Though I don't know if it necessarily applies here, because a second referendum has been consistently denied, and I'm not sure it being said louder automatically counts toward anything.
I still do not see a referendum - it would divide us even more if tgat is possible0 -
To be fair the last time a politician ruled out a vote, she called one shortly after.Mortimer said:
William is convinced that more denials mean a #peoplesbetrayal / #peoplesvote is more likely....Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do not understand your commentwilliamglenn said:The denials are getting louder. It can only mean one thing.
https://twitter.com/sajidjavid/status/1045020311207510016
I can’t wait for us to leave - the explanation of how this will hasten our joining the Euro will be unspoofable.
0 -
Don't forget France with 9% unemployment.HYUFD said:kle4 said:
We've already had that - if we leave it means disaster, which therefore means a hasty rejoining surge and thus Euro membership. Staying in on the same terms might not mean that.Mortimer said:
William is convinced that more denials mean a #peoplesbetrayal / #peoplesvote is more likely....Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do not understand your commentwilliamglenn said:The denials are getting louder. It can only mean one thing.
https://twitter.com/sajidjavid/status/1045020311207510016
I can’t wait for us to leave - the explanation of how this will hasten our joining the Euro will be unspoofable.
To join thriving Eurozone economies like Greece with 20% unemployment, Spain with 16% unemployment and Italy with 10% unemployment you mean?
In any case that is not really reality, EU officials have made clear if we voted to rejoin the EU while we would lose our rebate, fair enough as that was exclusive to the UK, we would not be required to join the Euro or Schengen which is also only fair as several existing EU nations are outside the Euro and Schengen0 -
Yes and anyone who has any significant assets and wealth would be well advised to shove as much of it over to Monaco or the Caymans as they can before the next general election just in case Corbyn does get inGIN1138 said:Thanks HYUFD and ydoethur
So, if someone has shares in a utility company and it really did look like a Jezza government was imminent it might be an idea to "Sell, Sell, Sell" then?0 -
Yes add them too, Germany of course is doing fine with 4% unemployment as we now have but Germany runs the showsteve_garner said:
Don't forget France with 9% unemployment.HYUFD said:kle4 said:
We've already had that - if we leave it means disaster, which therefore means a hasty rejoining surge and thus Euro membership. Staying in on the same terms might not mean that.Mortimer said:
William is convinced that more denials mean a #peoplesbetrayal / #peoplesvote is more likely....Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do not understand your commentwilliamglenn said:The denials are getting louder. It can only mean one thing.
https://twitter.com/sajidjavid/status/1045020311207510016
I can’t wait for us to leave - the explanation of how this will hasten our joining the Euro will be unspoofable.
To join thriving Eurozone economies like Greece with 20% unemployment, Spain with 16% unemployment and Italy with 10% unemployment you mean?
In any case that is not really reality, EU officials have made clear if we voted to rejoin the EU while we would lose our rebate, fair enough as that was exclusive to the UK, we would not be required to join the Euro or Schengen which is also only fair as several existing EU nations are outside the Euro and Schengen0 -
It's not my theoryHYUFD said:kle4 said:
We've already had that - if we leave it means disaster, which therefore means a hasty rejoining surge and thus Euro membership. Staying in on the same terms might not mean that.Mortimer said:
William is convinced that more denials mean a #peoplesbetrayal / #peoplesvote is more likely....Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do not understand your commentwilliamglenn said:The denials are getting louder. It can only mean one thing.
https://twitter.com/sajidjavid/status/1045020311207510016
I can’t wait for us to leave - the explanation of how this will hasten our joining the Euro will be unspoofable.
To join thriving Eurozone economies like Greece with 20% unemployment, Spain with 16% unemployment and Italy with 10% unemployment you mean?
0 -
The Courts can stop him including the ECHR ironicallyHYUFD said:
Provided Corbyn does not pass a law prohibiting compensation, in the UK Parliament is sovereign, we have no written constitution like Argentinarcs1000 said:
It is instructive to look at what happened in Argentina when the government renationalised (or appropriated) the national oil company YPF. They passed a law returning it to state ownership but were - inevitably - sued in various jurisdictions. Eventually they discovered that there were consequences and grudgingly paid up to shareholders.GIN1138 said:Thanks HYUFD and ydoethur
So, if someone has shares in a utility company and it really did look like a Jezza government was imminent it might be an idea to "Sell, Sell, Sell" then?
I would expect the same to happen here.0 -
It's an interesting point in terms of financial planning, though. The way I look at it is that a Corbyn/McDonnell government would undoubtedly be confiscatory, but also be fairly short-lived. Therefore for planning purposes, one needs to think about the ranking of targets they would go for, in the hope of escaping the worst effects before reality catches up and they are booted out. I don't think existing pension assets would be early targets, although pension allowances for everyone other than public-sector workers (already treated disproportionately favourably compared with most of the rest of us) certainly would*.Mortimer said:Because pensions belong to the individual. If the state ‘takes them over’, then they are stealing.
If I were a hard-left Chancellor wanting to raid assets, I'd go for ISAs before pensions. But before that, income tax, inheritance tax, Corporation tax, and property taxes.
* For that matter, Spreadsheet Phil might get there first. As always, if you're a higher-rate taxpayer planning a pension contribution, best get it in before the budget, 29th October this year. Nothing to lose if you can do it!0 -
I’d love to stay and debate, but there’s a knocking on the front door and I just don’t believe it’s not Kylie Minogue and Cheryl Cole wanting to come round and party with me.williamglenn said:
I don't believe him, and as soon as we have a withdrawal agreement, his argument about a second referendum undermining negotiations will be void.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do not understand your commentwilliamglenn said:The denials are getting louder. It can only mean one thing.
https://twitter.com/sajidjavid/status/10450203112075100160 -
News flash.Benpointer said:
You do post some rubbish sometimes. If you have £100k pension pot in XYZ plc pension scheme and that scheme were to be nationalised, you still have £100k in your pension pot the next day. The only difference is that it's become more secure since it it backed by the state not subject to the continued viability of XYZ plc.Mortimer said:
Because pensions belong to the individual. If the state ‘takes them over’, then they are stealing.Benpointer said:
How so?!Mortimer said:
Expropriation might be slightly too generous.Benpointer said:
Expropriation is surely the wrong word to describe nationalisation of pension funds.Charles said:
I suspect you are conflating two thingstyson said:
I'd nationalise pension schemes....they only seem to be an effective means to make rich people richer as far as I can see...Mortimer said:
Good grief. Really? That sounds like an absolute recipe for long term economic disaster....AlastairMeeks said:
I expect a Corbyn government would nationalise pension funds too. This has been done in both Poland and Hungary already and could prove a very nice earner.ydoethur said:
They lose all their money.GIN1138 said:How does renationalization work then?
What happens to the share holders of British Gas for example if Jezza decides to take it back into public control?
And Labour's supporters go wild with enthusiasm until they realise the owners in question were their pension funds.
we save approx 6k a month now we are both back in the UK and working...I'd rather pay my fair share of tax rather than find some way of avoiding it. People with money hate paying taxes....
There’s an argument on restricting or eliminating incentives to save for the wealthy (although others argue saving is intrinsically a good thing)
But are you suggesting expropriation of assets people have saved in the past? And why should that include only pension funds and not, for example, portfolios of buy to let properties?
An indivudual's pension pot would not be lost to them, simply managed by (and potentially for the benefit of) the state.
Now, I appreciate that there will be genuine concerns about future performance (although privately run pension schemes have often performed very poorly tbf) but that's not the same as expropriation.
It would be theft.
Some people have SIPPs.
Pensions are good for society.
They are not for the benefit of the state. They are for the benefit of the individual.
0 -
Why would McDonnell want to do that if there's no confiscatory effect?Benpointer said:
You do post some rubbish sometimes. If you have £100k pension pot in XYZ plc pension scheme and that scheme were to be nationalised, you still have £100k in your pension pot the next day. The only difference is that it's become more secure since it it backed by the state not subject to the continued viability of XYZ plc.Mortimer said:
Because pensions belong to the individual. If the state ‘takes them over’, then they are stealing.Benpointer said:
How so?!Mortimer said:
Expropriation might be slightly too generous.Benpointer said:
Expropriation is surely the wrong word to describe nationalisation of pension funds.Charles said:
I suspect you are conflating two thingstyson said:
I'd nationalise pension schemes....they only seem to be an effective means to make rich people richer as far as I can see...Mortimer said:
Good grief. Really? That sounds like an absolute recipe for long term economic disaster....AlastairMeeks said:
I expect a Corbyn government would nationalise pension funds too. This has been done in both Poland and Hungary already and could prove a very nice earner.ydoethur said:
They lose all their money.GIN1138 said:How does renationalization work then?
What happens to the share holders of British Gas for example if Jezza decides to take it back into public control?
And Labour's supporters go wild with enthusiasm until they realise the owners in question were their pension funds.
we save approx 6k a month now we are both back in the UK and working...I'd rather pay my fair share of tax rather than find some way of avoiding it. People with money hate paying taxes....
There’s an argument on restricting or eliminating incentives to save for the wealthy (although others argue saving is intrinsically a good thing)
But are you suggesting expropriation of assets people have saved in the past? And why should that include only pension funds and not, for example, portfolios of buy to let properties?
An indivudual's pension pot would not be lost to them, simply managed by (and potentially for the benefit of) the state.
Now, I appreciate that there will be genuine concerns about future performance (although privately run pension schemes have often performed very poorly tbf) but that's not the same as expropriation.
It would be theft.0 -
They do not have enough support Williamwilliamglenn said:0 -
In the event of No Deal, Remain would win a second EU referendum 55% to 45%Big_G_NorthWales said:
You may just agree with me on this but the most recent polling I saw was that Canada or No deal accounted for nearly 50%.HYUFD said:
If No Deal I think a second referendum is highly likely, provided a deal, or at least a withdrawal agreement and transition period in which a FTA deal can be negotiated, I think a second referendum will be avoidedBig_G_NorthWales said:
I will put it down to William's desperation. A second referendum is not going to happen. Majority in HOC against anyway. Last night Carwyn Jones, Wales First Minister, and Stephen Kinnock both publically ruled it out adding to the many labour voiceskle4 said:
The old standby, never believe anything until it has been officially denied.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do not understand your commentwilliamglenn said:The denials are getting louder. It can only mean one thing.
https://twitter.com/sajidjavid/status/1045020311207510016
Though I don't know if it necessarily applies here, because a second referendum has been consistently denied, and I'm not sure it being said louder automatically counts toward anything.
I still do not see a referendum - it would divide us even more if tgat is possible
http://uk.businessinsider.com/yougov-poll-voters-would-rather-remain-in-eu-than-accept-a-no-deal-brexit-2018-7
A Canada Deal has longer term viability though and is generally the most favoured form of Brexit in most polls0 -
He is superb....you have Pogba, we have deBruyne, Liverpool have Salah, Barcelona Messi.Madrid Modric...but Hazard is the best of the lot.....Big_G_NorthWales said:
That goal was pure magictyson said:Jesus H Christ...Hazard is off the radar good..
0 -
More secure with McDonnell in charge of the economy? You must be joking.Benpointer said:You do post some rubbish sometimes. If you have £100k pension pot in XYZ plc pension scheme and that scheme were to be nationalised, you still have £100k in your pension pot the next day. The only difference is that it's become more secure since it it backed by the state not subject to the continued viability of XYZ plc.
0 -
Not as generous as they used to be. Back last millennium you could retire once you hit fifty...Richard_Nabavi said:
Or, more to the point, NHS and teachers' very generous pension schemes?Charles said:
I suspect you are conflating two thingstyson said:
I'd nationalise pension schemes....they only seem to be an effective means to make rich people richer as far as I can see...Mortimer said:
Good grief. Really? That sounds like an absolute recipe for long term economic disaster....AlastairMeeks said:
I expect a Corbyn government would nationalise pension funds too. This has been done in both Poland and Hungary already and could prove a very nice earner.ydoethur said:
They lose all their money.GIN1138 said:How does renationalization work then?
What happens to the share holders of British Gas for example if Jezza decides to take it back into public control?
And Labour's supporters go wild with enthusiasm until they realise the owners in question were their pension funds.
we save approx 6k a month now we are both back in the UK and working...I'd rather pay my fair share of tax rather than find some way of avoiding it. People with money hate paying taxes....
There’s an argument on restricting or eliminating incentives to save for the wealthy (although others argue saving is intrinsically a good thing)
But are you suggesting expropriation of assets people have saved in the past? And why should that include only pension funds and not, for example, portfolios of buy to let properties?0 -
I have to say I agree with Rudd on that, I do not think we can go to No Deal with all the potential damage to the economy and the Union without a second EU referendum providing a mandate for it.williamglenn said:
The 52% who voted Leave were certainly not all voting for No Deal Brexit
0 -
Technically of course Parliament could even withdraw from the ECHRBig_G_NorthWales said:
The Courts can stop him including the ECHR ironicallyHYUFD said:
Provided Corbyn does not pass a law prohibiting compensation, in the UK Parliament is sovereign, we have no written constitution like Argentinarcs1000 said:
It is instructive to look at what happened in Argentina when the government renationalised (or appropriated) the national oil company YPF. They passed a law returning it to state ownership but were - inevitably - sued in various jurisdictions. Eventually they discovered that there were consequences and grudgingly paid up to shareholders.GIN1138 said:Thanks HYUFD and ydoethur
So, if someone has shares in a utility company and it really did look like a Jezza government was imminent it might be an idea to "Sell, Sell, Sell" then?
I would expect the same to happen here.
0 -
Agreed. In the event of what looks like no deal, previously unpalatable options may well open up.HYUFD said:
I have to say I agree with Rudd on that, I do not think we can go to No Deal with all the potential damage to the economy and the Union without a second EU referendum providing a mandate for it.williamglenn said:
The 52% who voted Leave were certainly not all voting for No Deal Brexit0 -
TM met Trump tonight and they have announced a trade deal is on the agenda.
Interesting another report, and I cannot recall whether it was the Guardian or Sky, states that individual EU nation states are so concerned of a no deal impact that they intend doing bi lateral deals with the UK over the heads of the commission
Reality hits politics0 -
Not reality either, rejoining the EU means losing the rebate, not joining the Eurozonekle4 said:
It's not my theoryHYUFD said:kle4 said:
We've already had that - if we leave it means disaster, which therefore means a hasty rejoining surge and thus Euro membership. Staying in on the same terms might not mean that.Mortimer said:
William is convinced that more denials mean a #peoplesbetrayal / #peoplesvote is more likely....Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do not understand your commentwilliamglenn said:The denials are getting louder. It can only mean one thing.
https://twitter.com/sajidjavid/status/1045020311207510016
I can’t wait for us to leave - the explanation of how this will hasten our joining the Euro will be unspoofable.
To join thriving Eurozone economies like Greece with 20% unemployment, Spain with 16% unemployment and Italy with 10% unemployment you mean?
0 -
I say again, the 'lifeboat' of a new vote may be May's only option in the end.kle4 said:
Agreed. In the event of what looks like no deal, previously unpalatable options may well open up.HYUFD said:
I have to say I agree with Rudd on that, I do not think we can go to No Deal with all the potential damage to the economy and the Union without a second EU referendum providing a mandate for it.williamglenn said:
The 52% who voted Leave were certainly not all voting for No Deal Brexit0 -
Not likelyHYUFD said:
Technically of course Parliament could even withdraw from the ECHRBig_G_NorthWales said:
The Courts can stop him including the ECHR ironicallyHYUFD said:
Provided Corbyn does not pass a law prohibiting compensation, in the UK Parliament is sovereign, we have no written constitution like Argentinarcs1000 said:
It is instructive to look at what happened in Argentina when the government renationalised (or appropriated) the national oil company YPF. They passed a law returning it to state ownership but were - inevitably - sued in various jurisdictions. Eventually they discovered that there were consequences and grudgingly paid up to shareholders.GIN1138 said:Thanks HYUFD and ydoethur
So, if someone has shares in a utility company and it really did look like a Jezza government was imminent it might be an idea to "Sell, Sell, Sell" then?
I would expect the same to happen here.0 -
Having McDonnell look after my pension savings would be like McDonalds looking after the well being of my cow.Benpointer said:
You do post some rubbish sometimes. If you have £100k pension pot in XYZ plc pension scheme and that scheme were to be nationalised, you still have £100k in your pension pot the next day. The only difference is that it's become more secure since it it backed by the state not subject to the continued viability of XYZ plc.Mortimer said:
Because pensions belong to the individual. If the state ‘takes them over’, then they are stealing.Benpointer said:
How so?!Mortimer said:
Expropriation might be slightly too generous.Benpointer said:
Expropriation is surely the wrong word to describe nationalisation of pension funds.Charles said:
I suspect you are conflating two thingstyson said:
I'd nationalise pension schemes....they only seem to be an effective means to make rich people richer as far as I can see...Mortimer said:
Good grief. Really? That sounds like an absolute recipe for long term economic disaster....AlastairMeeks said:
I expect a Corbyn government would nationalise pension funds too. This has been done in both Poland and Hungary already and could prove a very nice earner.ydoethur said:
They lose all their money.GIN1138 said:How does renationalization work then?
What happens to the share holders of British Gas for example if Jezza decides to take it back into public control?
And Labour's supporters go wild with enthusiasm until they realise the owners in question were their pension funds.
we save approx 6k a month now we are both back in the UK and working...I'd rather pay my fair share of tax rather than find some way of avoiding it. People with money hate paying taxes....
There’s an argument on restricting or eliminating incentives to save for the wealthy (although others argue saving is intrinsically a good thing)
But are you suggesting expropriation of assets people have saved in the past? And why should that include only pension funds and not, for example, portfolios of buy to let properties?
An indivudual's pension pot would not be lost to them, simply managed by (and potentially for the benefit of) the state.
Now, I appreciate that there will be genuine concerns about future performance (although privately run pension schemes have often performed very poorly tbf) but that's not the same as expropriation.
It would be theft.
Hell would freeze over before I trusted a government run by Corbyn with my cash.0 -
While it is not my theory and I would hope we would not find ourselves in such a pass, if we did leave and then tried to rejoin I would absolutely support joining the eurozone. If we're out then in again, it should be all the way in.HYUFD said:
Not reality either, rejoining the EU means losing the rebate, not joining the Eurozonekle4 said:
It's not my theoryHYUFD said:kle4 said:
We've already had that - if we leave it means disaster, which therefore means a hasty rejoining surge and thus Euro membership. Staying in on the same terms might not mean that.Mortimer said:
William is convinced that more denials mean a #peoplesbetrayal / #peoplesvote is more likely....Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do not understand your commentwilliamglenn said:The denials are getting louder. It can only mean one thing.
https://twitter.com/sajidjavid/status/1045020311207510016
I can’t wait for us to leave - the explanation of how this will hasten our joining the Euro will be unspoofable.
To join thriving Eurozone economies like Greece with 20% unemployment, Spain with 16% unemployment and Italy with 10% unemployment you mean?0 -
Good points.Richard_Nabavi said:
It's an interesting point in terms of financial planning, though. The way I look at it is that a Corbyn/McDonnell government would undoubtedly be confiscatory, but also be fairly short-lived. Therefore for planning purposes, one needs to think about the ranking of targets they would go for, in the hope of escaping the worst effects before reality catches up and they are booted out. I don't think existing pension assets would be early targets, although pension allowances for everyone other than public-sector workers (already treated disproportionately favourably compared with most of the rest of us) certainly would*.Mortimer said:Because pensions belong to the individual. If the state ‘takes them over’, then they are stealing.
If I were a hard-left Chancellor wanting to raid assets, I'd go for ISAs before pensions. But before that, income tax, inheritance tax, Corporation tax, and property taxes.
* For that matter, Spreadsheet Phil might get there first. As always, if you're a higher-rate taxpayer planning a pension contribution, best get it in before the budget, 29th October this year. Nothing to lose if you can do it!
I’m still nowhere near convinced that McMao will ever get anywhere near the treasury. But if things change, I’m going to think long and hard about my financial affairs. I don’t have any assets other than the company I founded and control entirely.0 -
True, but still extremely generous compared with everyone else, especially at the top end. The biggest money-purchase pot you can accumulate before punitive taxation kicks in is £1.03m, which sounds a lot but only buys you something like a £31K index-linked pension. Because the tax rules for final-salary schemes are based on a 20-times multiplier, someone highly paid in a final-salary scheme can accumulate entitlement to a £50K index-linked pension before hitting the tax charge. It's a massive advantage for highly-paid public sector employees.Fysics_Teacher said:
Not as generous as they used to be. Back last millennium you could retire once you hit fifty...Richard_Nabavi said:
Or, more to the point, NHS and teachers' very generous pension schemes?Charles said:
I suspect you are conflating two thingstyson said:
I'd nationalise pension schemes....they only seem to be an effective means to make rich people richer as far as I can see...Mortimer said:
Good grief. Really? That sounds like an absolute recipe for long term economic disaster....AlastairMeeks said:
I expect a Corbyn government would nationalise pension funds too. This has been done in both Poland and Hungary already and could prove a very nice earner.ydoethur said:
They lose all their money.GIN1138 said:How does renationalization work then?
What happens to the share holders of British Gas for example if Jezza decides to take it back into public control?
And Labour's supporters go wild with enthusiasm until they realise the owners in question were their pension funds.
we save approx 6k a month now we are both back in the UK and working...I'd rather pay my fair share of tax rather than find some way of avoiding it. People with money hate paying taxes....
There’s an argument on restricting or eliminating incentives to save for the wealthy (although others argue saving is intrinsically a good thing)
But are you suggesting expropriation of assets people have saved in the past? And why should that include only pension funds and not, for example, portfolios of buy to let properties?0 -
Who is Pogba - Pogba and Mourinho need to go, tomorrow would be just finetyson said:
He is superb....you have Pogba, we have deBruyne, Liverpool have Salah, Barcelona Messi.Madrid Modric...but Hazard is the best of the lot.....Big_G_NorthWales said:
That goal was pure magictyson said:Jesus H Christ...Hazard is off the radar good..
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Big_G_NorthWales said:
TM met Trump tonight and they have announced a trade deal is on the agenda.
Interesting another report, and I cannot recall whether it was the Guardian or Sky, states that individual EU nation states are so concerned of a no deal impact that they intend doing bi lateral deals with the UK over the heads of the commission
Reality hits politics
What a load of kerfuffle you Tories have landed us in...begging bowls to Trump, scrapping around for little bits of leftovers from Europe....
Wouldn't life had just been so much easier if we had been left Cammo, Osbo and Cleggy at the helm, and none off this Brexit bobbins? I'd take it0 -
Well, here are two possibilities...Richard_Nabavi said:
Why would McDonnell want to do that if there's no confiscatory effect?Benpointer said:
You do post some rubbish sometimes. If you have £100k pension pot in XYZ plc pension scheme and that scheme were to be nationalised, you still have £100k in your pension pot the next day. The only difference is that it's become more secure since it it backed by the state not subject to the continued viability of XYZ plc.Mortimer said:
Because pensions belong to the individual. If the state ‘takes them over’, then they are stealing.Benpointer said:
How so?!Mortimer said:
Expropriation might be slightly too generous.Benpointer said:
Expropriation is surely the wrong word to describe nationalisation of pension funds.Charles said:
I suspect you are conflating two thingstyson said:Mortimer said:
Good grief. Really? That sounds like an absolute recipe for long term economic disaster....AlastairMeeks said:
I expect a Corbyn government would nationalise pension funds too. This has been done in both Poland and Hungary already and could prove a very nice earner.ydoethur said:
They lose all their money.GIN1138 said:How does renationalization work then?
What happens to the share holders of British Gas for example if Jezza decides to take it back into public control?
And Labour's supporters go wild with enthusiasm until they realise the owners in question were their pension funds.
There’s an argument on restricting or eliminating incentives to save for the wealthy (although others argue saving is intrinsically a good thing)
But are you suggesting expropriation of assets people have saved in the past? And why should that include only pension funds and not, for example, portfolios of buy to let properties?
An indivudual's pension pot would not be lost to them, simply managed by (and potentially for the benefit of) the state.
Now, I appreciate that there will be genuine concerns about future performance (although privately run pension schemes have often performed very poorly tbf) but that's not the same as expropriation.
It would be theft.
1. Gives him a source of investment to direct.
2. Stops companies pissing about with their employee's pension savings (and - sometimes - directors pissing off, having spent their employee's pension savings).
Look, I can see why you, Mortimer, glw and others might hate this. But expropriation is the wrong word to describe it.0 -
Haha - if the electorate voted them in you'll have no choice. It's called Democracy!welshowl said:
Having McDonnell look after my pension savings would be like McDonalds looking after the well being of my cow.Benpointer said:
You do post some rubbish sometimes. If you have £100k pension pot in XYZ plc pension scheme and that scheme were to be nationalised, you still have £100k in your pension pot the next day. The only difference is that it's become more secure since it it backed by the state not subject to the continued viability of XYZ plc.Mortimer said:
Because pensions belong to the individual. If the state ‘takes them over’, then they are stealing.Benpointer said:
How so?!Mortimer said:
Expropriation might be slightly too generous.Benpointer said:
Expropriation is surely the wrong word to describe nationalisation of pension funds.Charles said:
I suspect you are conflating two thingstyson said:Mortimer said:
Good grief. Really? That sounds like an absolute recipe for long term economic disaster....AlastairMeeks said:
I expect a Corbyn government would nationalise pension funds too. This has been done in both Poland and Hungary already and could prove a very nice earner.ydoethur said:
They lose all their money.GIN1138 said:How does renationalization work then?
What happens to the share holders of British Gas for example if Jezza decides to take it back into public control?
And Labour's supporters go wild with enthusiasm until they realise the owners in question were their pension funds.
There’s an argument on restricting or eliminating incentives to save for the wealthy (although others argue saving is intrinsically a good thing)
But are you suggesting expropriation of assets people have saved in the past? And why should that include only pension funds and not, for example, portfolios of buy to let properties?
An indivudual's pension pot would not be lost to them, simply managed by (and potentially for the benefit of) the state.
Now, I appreciate that there will be genuine concerns about future performance (although privately run pension schemes have often performed very poorly tbf) but that's not the same as expropriation.
It would be theft.
Hell would freeze over before I trusted a government run by Corbyn with my cash.0
This discussion has been closed.