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Pretty silly, but from the picture was one of the hundreds of fringe meetings. Doubt if it will resonate far.rottenborough said:John McD will be furious with Laura Smith MP. He has spent the last few days trying to appear like a reasonable bank manager, and then one of his MPs goes off and says lets have a General Strike and bring down a democratically elected government.
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Whilst we all have our preferred party, there is definitely something refreshing and optimistic about a peaceful change in government regardless of whether your coming in or leaving power.Philip_Thompson said:
The great advantage of democracy is that over time all governments become tired and old, even the greatest eventually become bums that need to be kicked out.rpjs said:
The great advantage of democracy is that you can kick the bums out. The great disadvantage of democracy is that sometimes it's not a good idea to kick the bums out if they're only just starting to get to grips with really difficult problems.kle4 said:
It might well be so, depressingly. If they avoid screwing up massively.Omnium said:
Democracy is a system well suited to city-states. We all know it's not that suited to big states. There's quite a big influence of birth still.ydoethur said:
Today I was teaching about the Russian Empire and the contrasting (failed) approaches of Alexander II and Alexander III. The general consensus was that what it really showed was that by the late nineteenth century the job of a from the right o be getting uncomfortably difficult for anyone not really quite extraordinary.stodge said:
Well, you've not lost your sense of humour to be fair.Big_G_NorthWales said:Just watched TM interviewed and she did her best Maybot. Looked very tired and tetchy
I do not envy her job at all
Edit : Just remembered I am not supposed to critise her - sorry
I'm a known critic of the Conservative Party and the Prime Minister but I wouldn't want her health and her sanity to suffer because of the job.
Politics isn't one-dimensional - there were aspects of John McDonnell's speech I liked yesterday and both Starmer and Thornberry did well today. There's even a decent piece with Tom Watson in tonight's Evening Standard and Watson gets a reasonable mention from George Osborne in the Editorial.
I also think Labour's contortions over Brexit aren't much different to those of the Conservatives.
The leaders of the Democratic states may well arrive in office without understanding the system. I'm not sure that any of them ever do. Trump is a new feature in that he's chosen not to understand, not to pay attention, and not to talk very much sense either. To a limited degree though he's made his point, and made it well.
The main issue with Democracy isn't the politicians - it's us. We are so very far from aware of the fine detail of the issues of the day.
The Chinese are essentially running an oligarchy as far as I can make out. I think that's going to prove a better system in the long (and more populous) term.0 -
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Edward Timpson lost his seat to her....shakes head....rottenborough said:twitter.com/Anoosh_C/status/1044670010566815744
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Indeed, although arguably there are some actual democracies where the ruling party rarely or never gets kicked out. Botswana is a good example, and perhaps arguably Singapore (although I'm not sure how true a democracy it can be counted as with the legal measures the PAP uses to cow its opposition). I guess where those countries manage to carry on with good government it's the potential of being kicked out that keeps the bums honest.Philip_Thompson said:
The great advantage of democracy is that over time all governments become tired and old, even the greatest eventually become bums that need to be kicked out.rpjs said:
The great advantage of democracy is that you can kick the bums out. The great disadvantage of democracy is that sometimes it's not a good idea to kick the bums out if they're only just starting to get to grips with really difficult problems.kle4 said:
It might well be so, depressingly. If they avoid screwing up massively.Omnium said:
Democracy is a system well suited to city-states. We all know it's not that suited to big states. There's quite a big influence of birth still.ydoethur said:
Today I was teaching about the Russian Empire and the contrasting (failed) approaches of Alexander II and Alexander III. The general consensus was that what it really showed was that by the late nineteenth century the job of a Tsar was impossible.
I wonder if the job of a leader of a democratic country is going the same way. Of course, they have the advantage of not being selected solely on the basis of having emerged from the right vagina in the right order, but it still seems to be getting uncomfortably difficult for anyone not really quite extraordinary.
The leaders of the Democratic states may well arrive in office without understanding the system. I'm not sure that any of them ever do. Trump is a new feature in that he's chosen not to understand, not to pay attention, and not to talk very much sense either. To a limited degree though he's made his point, and made it well.
The main issue with Democracy isn't the politicians - it's us. We are so very far from aware of the fine detail of the issues of the day.
The Chinese are essentially running an oligarchy as far as I can make out. I think that's going to prove a better system in the long (and more populous) term.0 -
I would expect Hammond to slash corporation tax on a no dealrottenborough said:-1 -
Magic money tree.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I would expect Hammond to slash corporation tax on a no dealrottenborough said:
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Good summary of the contortions over Brexit and Labour:
https://www.politico.eu/article/why-jeremy-corbyn-is-still-half-hearted-about-europe/-1 -
Well, it's high stakes poker. And May has to go all in.....Big_G_NorthWales said:
I would expect Hammond to slash corporation tax on a no dealrottenborough said:0 -
And some people worry we are sad obsessives that need to get out more on this site...
https://ozzyman.com/the-one-lego-build-to-rule-them-all-150000-piece-battle-of-helms-deep/0 -
Crewe and Nantwich was one of those seats where a collapse in UKIP's vote saw lots of working class voters returning to Labour as they believed Lab would honour the referendum - Wonder what a lot of those voters are thinking tonight seeing Starmer and Thornberry's stitch up?FrancisUrquhart said:
Edward Timpson lost his seat to her....shakes head....rottenborough said:twitter.com/Anoosh_C/status/1044670010566815744
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There will be less money.MarqueeMark said:
Well, it's high stakes poker. And May has to go all in.....Big_G_NorthWales said:
I would expect Hammond to slash corporation tax on a no dealrottenborough said:0 -
Best wishes, and hope that the tissue-typing is a good match.justin124 said:I hope you will allow me to share something personal. In the last few days I have received unwelcome news regarding the health of a brother about to reach 61 - three years younger than myself. He has inherited Polycystic Kidney Disease - rather rampant on my mother's side of the family - as have my two other brothers. My sister and I are forunate in not being affected. Whilst three siblings have been diagnosed with this condition , my brother alone has suffered renal failure to date.He was overjoyed when his wife indicated her willingness to be a Living Donor back in 2007 - but no transplant operation could occur until his kidney function had declined to a low critical level. That finally took place in late June this year , but whilst the operation was a technical success it has sadly now become clear that the new kidney has been rejected. My brother will now have to rely on Dialysis - and this news has to be a heavy psychological and emotional blow to him - and indeed to his wife.
I have given the matter some thought - and am to see my GP on October 10th to discuss the possibility of my becoming a Living Donor too. I will insist, however, that my brother and the rest of my family have no knowledge of this unless - and until - the issue reaches an advanced stage. Nothing could be more cruel than to raise his hopes - only to have them so cruelly dashed again.0 -
And what will happen to public services? Make them the worst in the G20?williamglenn said:0 -
Lower taxes increases tax take but the left do not see itJonathan said:
Magic money tree.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I would expect Hammond to slash corporation tax on a no dealrottenborough said:0 -
No. That spin has been disproven.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Lower taxes increases tax take but the left do not see itJonathan said:
Magic money tree.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I would expect Hammond to slash corporation tax on a no dealrottenborough said:0 -
Well, if they think that is going to happen anyway might as well slash taxes at the same time I guess.anothernick said:
And what will happen to public services? Make them the worst in the G20?williamglenn said:0 -
Surely a tax bribe wont work when ‘business’ will expect a Corbyn/left wing Labour government in the short to medium term?0
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A problem is that, like benevolent dictatorships, intelligent oligarchies are only tolerable until the first madman turns up. The strength of democracy isn't that we're good at electing good leaders, but that it's hard for bad leaders to get as far as they'd like.kle4 said:
It might well be so, depressingly. If they avoid screwing up massively.Omnium said:
The main issue with Democracy isn't the politicians - it's us. We are so very far from aware of the fine detail of the issues of the day.
The Chinese are essentially running an oligarchy as far as I can make out. I think that's going to prove a better system in the long (and more populous) term.
Swiss direct democracy does work pretty well, because up to half the population are willing to put the time and thought into working out what they really think makes sense. But that requires a culture that we don't in general aspire to.
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I assume you stumbled across that piece when you were reading his fascinating review of the Pornhub awards ceremony.FrancisUrquhart said:And some people worry we are sad obsessives that need to get out more on this site...
https://ozzyman.com/the-one-lego-build-to-rule-them-all-150000-piece-battle-of-helms-deep/0 -
She's playing poker with the Tory party.MarqueeMark said:
Well, it's high stakes poker. And May has to go all in.....Big_G_NorthWales said:
I would expect Hammond to slash corporation tax on a no dealrottenborough said:0 -
Country before party.williamglenn said:
She's playing poker with the Tory party.MarqueeMark said:
Well, it's high stakes poker. And May has to go all in.....Big_G_NorthWales said:
I would expect Hammond to slash corporation tax on a no dealrottenborough said:0 -
Poker? Not a "Snap" election?williamglenn said:
She's playing poker with the Tory party.MarqueeMark said:
Well, it's high stakes poker. And May has to go all in.....Big_G_NorthWales said:
I would expect Hammond to slash corporation tax on a no dealrottenborough said:0 -
I'm running out of patience with your jokes.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Poker? Not a "Snap" election?williamglenn said:
She's playing poker with the Tory party.MarqueeMark said:
Well, it's high stakes poker. And May has to go all in.....Big_G_NorthWales said:
I would expect Hammond to slash corporation tax on a no dealrottenborough said:0 -
If only that were true. For some it appears country comes a distant fourth behind self, old school tie and party.Mortimer said:
Country before party.williamglenn said:
She's playing poker with the Tory party.MarqueeMark said:
Well, it's high stakes poker. And May has to go all in.....Big_G_NorthWales said:
I would expect Hammond to slash corporation tax on a no dealrottenborough said:0 -
Had to log into Face-ache...and somebody had linked to it. I have never heard of that site before.Anorak said:
I assume you stumbled across that piece when you were reading his fascinating review of the Pornhub awards ceremony.FrancisUrquhart said:And some people worry we are sad obsessives that need to get out more on this site...
https://ozzyman.com/the-one-lego-build-to-rule-them-all-150000-piece-battle-of-helms-deep/0 -
UK FPTP is vulnerable to two poor leaders showing up at the same time.NickPalmer said:
A problem is that, like benevolent dictatorships, intelligent oligarchies are only tolerable until the first madman turns up. The strength of democracy isn't that we're good at electing good leaders, but that it's hard for bad leaders to get as far as they'd like.kle4 said:
It might well be so, depressingly. If they avoid screwing up massively.Omnium said:
The main issue with Democracy isn't the politicians - it's us. We are so very far from aware of the fine detail of the issues of the day.
The Chinese are essentially running an oligarchy as far as I can make out. I think that's going to prove a better system in the long (and more populous) term.
Swiss direct democracy does work pretty well, because up to half the population are willing to put the time and thought into working out what they really think makes sense. But that requires a culture that we don't in general aspire to.
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So Brits are too lazy and/or stupid to vote without thinking about it first?NickPalmer said:
A problem is that, like benevolent dictatorships, intelligent oligarchies are only tolerable until the first madman turns up. The strength of democracy isn't that we're good at electing good leaders, but that it's hard for bad leaders to get as far as they'd like.kle4 said:
It might well be so, depressingly. If they avoid screwing up massively.Omnium said:
The main issue with Democracy isn't the politicians - it's us. We are so very far from aware of the fine detail of the issues of the day.
The Chinese are essentially running an oligarchy as far as I can make out. I think that's going to prove a better system in the long (and more populous) term.
Swiss direct democracy does work pretty well, because up to half the population are willing to put the time and thought into working out what they really think makes sense. But that requires a culture that we don't in general aspire to.
Thanks Dr Palmer. It’s good to know what you really think.0 -
Is May trying to Bridge over the divides in her party or are the Racing Demons making her play Solo?Anorak said:
I'm running out of patience with your jokes.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Poker? Not a "Snap" election?williamglenn said:
She's playing poker with the Tory party.MarqueeMark said:
Well, it's high stakes poker. And May has to go all in.....Big_G_NorthWales said:
I would expect Hammond to slash corporation tax on a no dealrottenborough said:0 -
Suuure you didFrancisUrquhart said:
Had to log into Face-ache...and somebody had linked to it. I have never heard of that site before.Anorak said:
I assume you stumbled across that piece when you were reading his fascinating review of the Pornhub awards ceremony.FrancisUrquhart said:And some people worry we are sad obsessives that need to get out more on this site...
https://ozzyman.com/the-one-lego-build-to-rule-them-all-150000-piece-battle-of-helms-deep/
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You believe half the nation really thinks things over every time they vote?RoyalBlue said:
So Brits are too lazy and/or stupid to vote without thinking about it first?NickPalmer said:
A problem is that, like benevolent dictatorships, intelligent oligarchies are only tolerable until the first madman turns up. The strength of democracy isn't that we're good at electing good leaders, but that it's hard for bad leaders to get as far as they'd like.kle4 said:
It might well be so, depressingly. If they avoid screwing up massively.Omnium said:
The main issue with Democracy isn't the politicians - it's us. We are so very far from aware of the fine detail of the issues of the day.
The Chinese are essentially running an oligarchy as far as I can make out. I think that's going to prove a better system in the long (and more populous) term.
Swiss direct democracy does work pretty well, because up to half the population are willing to put the time and thought into working out what they really think makes sense. But that requires a culture that we don't in general aspire to.
Thanks Dr Palmer. It’s good to know what you really think.0 -
That does not follow at all, the first two are populist movements, the Euro anything but.Jonathan said:
If Corbyn can lead Labour and Trump can be president, the UK can enter the Euro. It will happen two years post Brexit when the hommous finally runs out.williamglenn said:
British membership of the Euro will be the next.Jonathan said:
It’s fascinating. Wondering if there’s precedent for this. Has a strand of political thought seemingly defeated and irrelevant risen back to life so quickly.rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/alexnunns/status/1044664825803083777
Four or five years ago, this would have been three people.
A changed party.
About 10% more people back No Deal Brexit than joining the Euro at the moment and many Remain voters, myself included, would have voted Leave had joining the Euro been a requirement of staying in the EU0 -
That's a deliberate and obtuse misinterpretation and you know it.RoyalBlue said:
So Brits are too lazy and/or stupid to vote without thinking about it first?NickPalmer said:
A problem is that, like benevolent dictatorships, intelligent oligarchies are only tolerable until the first madman turns up. The strength of democracy isn't that we're good at electing good leaders, but that it's hard for bad leaders to get as far as they'd like.kle4 said:
It might well be so, depressingly. If they avoid screwing up massively.Omnium said:
The main issue with Democracy isn't the politicians - it's us. We are so very far from aware of the fine detail of the issues of the day.
The Chinese are essentially running an oligarchy as far as I can make out. I think that's going to prove a better system in the long (and more populous) term.
Swiss direct democracy does work pretty well, because up to half the population are willing to put the time and thought into working out what they really think makes sense. But that requires a culture that we don't in general aspire to.
Thanks Dr Palmer. It’s good to know what you really think.0 -
Time to turn off the light
Have a good nights rest everyone
Good night folks0 -
Corbyn will announce plans for a rollout of green technologies including 13,500 onshore and offshore wind turbines, solar panels on thousands of roofs and wide-scale home insulation.
The promised investment in green technologies would be paid for from Labour’s £250bn national transformation fund, announced at the last general election, with the home insulation programme alone costing £12.8bn through a variety of subsidies.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/25/corbyn-vows-to-end-greed-is-good-capitalism-in-uk
Surely, after every bloody PM every year for the past 15 years has called for the march of the roof laggers, there can't still be any need for wide-scale home insulation...
And HOOOOOWWWW MUCH.....0 -
Following a fraught summer dominated by rows over antisemitism, a Labour spokesman played down expectations that Corbyn would apologise directly to the Jewish community in his speech, suggesting that he had already done so.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/25/corbyn-vows-to-end-greed-is-good-capitalism-in-uk0 -
10 years ago no one would have seriously backed Corbyn or Trump. We do not know what the next 10 years might bring.HYUFD said:
That does not follow at all, the first two are populist movements, the Euro anything but.Jonathan said:
If Corbyn can lead Labour and Trump can be president, the UK can enter the Euro. It will happen two years post Brexit when the hommous finally runs out.williamglenn said:
British membership of the Euro will be the next.Jonathan said:
It’s fascinating. Wondering if there’s precedent for this. Has a strand of political thought seemingly defeated and irrelevant risen back to life so quickly.rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/alexnunns/status/1044664825803083777
Four or five years ago, this would have been three people.
A changed party.
About 10% more people back No Deal Brexit than joining the Euro at the moment and many Remain voters, myself included, would have voted Leave had joining the Euro been a requirement of staying in the EU
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India is the world's greatest democracy and it is catching up with China and will soon overtake it in terms of population while also continuing to rise up the ranks of the top 10 economiesOmnium said:
Democracy is a system well suited to city-states. We all know it's not that suited to big states. There's quite a big influence of birth still.ydoethur said:
Today I was teaching about the Russian Empire and the contrasting (failed) approaches of Alexander II and Alexander III. The general consensus was that what it really showed was that by the late nineteenth century the job of a Tsar was impossible.stodge said:
Well, you've not lost your sense of humour to be fair.Big_G_NorthWales said:Just watched TM interviewed and she did her best Maybot. Looked very tired and tetchy
I do not envy her job at all
Edit : Just remembered I am not supposed to critise her - sorry
I'm a known critic of the Conservative Party and the Prime Minister but I wouldn't want her health and her sanity to suffer because of the job.
Politics isn't one-dimensional - there were aspects of John McDonnell's speech I liked yesterday and both Starmer and Thornberry did well today. There's even a decent piece with Tom Watson in tonight's Evening Standard and Watson gets a reasonable mention from George Osborne in the Editorial.
I also think Labour's contortions over Brexit aren't much different to those of the Conservatives.
I wonder if the job of a leader of a democratic country is going the same way. Of course, they have the advantage of not being selected solely on the basis of having emerged from the right vagina in the right order, but it still seems to be getting uncomfortably difficult for anyone not really quite extraordinary.
The leaders of the Democratic states may well arrive in office without understanding the system. I'm not sure that any of them ever do. Trump is a new feature in that he's chosen not to understand, not to pay attention, and not to talk very much sense either. To a limited degree though he's made his point, and made it well.
The main issue with Democracy isn't the politicians - it's us. We are so very far from aware of the fine detail of the issues of the day.
The Chinese are essentially running an oligarchy as far as I can make out. I think that's going to prove a better system in the long (and more populous) term.
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VoteFrancisUrquhart said:Corbyn will announce plans for a rollout of green technologies including 13,500 onshore and offshore wind turbines, solar panels on thousands of roofs and wide-scale home insulation.
The promised investment in green technologies would be paid for from Labour’s £250bn national transformation fund, announced at the last general election, with the home insulation programme alone costing £12.8bn through a variety of subsidies.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/25/corbyn-vows-to-end-greed-is-good-capitalism-in-uk
Surely, after every bloody PM every year for the past 15 years has called for the march of the roof laggers, there can't still be any need for wide-scale home insulation...
And HOOOOOWWWW MUCH.....bluered, go green.
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Strip, as in assets?Sunil_Prasannan said:
Poker? Not a "Snap" election?williamglenn said:
She's playing poker with the Tory party.MarqueeMark said:
Well, it's high stakes poker. And May has to go all in.....Big_G_NorthWales said:
I would expect Hammond to slash corporation tax on a no dealrottenborough said:
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If the likes of Greece continue to have 20% unemployment in the Eurozone while Germany has 4% unemployment in the same currency area the Eurozone may well have collapsed in 20 years under its own contradictions or at least lost some of the southern European statesJonathan said:
10 years ago no one would have seriously backed Corbyn or Trump. We do not know what the next 10 years might bring.HYUFD said:
That does not follow at all, the first two are populist movements, the Euro anything but.Jonathan said:
If Corbyn can lead Labour and Trump can be president, the UK can enter the Euro. It will happen two years post Brexit when the hommous finally runs out.williamglenn said:
British membership of the Euro will be the next.Jonathan said:
It’s fascinating. Wondering if there’s precedent for this. Has a strand of political thought seemingly defeated and irrelevant risen back to life so quickly.rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/alexnunns/status/1044664825803083777
Four or five years ago, this would have been three people.
A changed party.
About 10% more people back No Deal Brexit than joining the Euro at the moment and many Remain voters, myself included, would have voted Leave had joining the Euro been a requirement of staying in the EU
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Lower Council tax doesn't seem to do so!Big_G_NorthWales said:
Lower taxes increases tax take but the left do not see itJonathan said:
Magic money tree.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I would expect Hammond to slash corporation tax on a no dealrottenborough said:
One of the interesting aspects of the end of the class war, with ABCDE voters becoming nearly equal between the parties on voting, is that Tory slash and burn policies to the welfare state may well lose them the next election.0 -
Maybe, maybe not.HYUFD said:
If the likes of Greece continue to have 20% unemployment in the Eurozone while Germany has 4% unemployment in the same currency area the Eurozone may well have collapsed in 20 years under its own contradictions or at least lost some of the southern European statesJonathan said:
10 years ago no one would have seriously backed Corbyn or Trump. We do not know what the next 10 years might bring.HYUFD said:
That does not follow at all, the first two are populist movements, the Euro anything but.Jonathan said:
If Corbyn can lead Labour and Trump can be president, the UK can enter the Euro. It will happen two years post Brexit when the hommous finally runs out.williamglenn said:
British membership of the Euro will be the next.Jonathan said:
It’s fascinating. Wondering if there’s precedent for this. Has a strand of political thought seemingly defeated and irrelevant risen back to life so quickly.rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/alexnunns/status/1044664825803083777
Four or five years ago, this would have been three people.
A changed party.
About 10% more people back No Deal Brexit than joining the Euro at the moment and many Remain voters, myself included, would have voted Leave had joining the Euro been a requirement of staying in the EU
What I do know is that people here couldn’t predict the outcome of the last election even after the exit poll was published. Things are so volatile, anything- even joining the Euro- is possible.0 -
Perhaps I’m reaching a little, but you can hardly blame me when we have a former legislator deciding unilaterally that ‘we’ don’t in general aspire to direct democracy. It’s quite hard to aspire to it when people like Dr Palmer break manifesto pledges to hold referendums, and instead decide amongst themselves to alienate powers to supranational bodies.Anorak said:
That's a deliberate and obtuse misinterpretation and you know it.RoyalBlue said:
So Brits are too lazy and/or stupid to vote without thinking about it first?NickPalmer said:
A problem is that, like benevolent dictatorships, intelligent oligarchies are only tolerable until the first madman turns up. The strength of democracy isn't that we're good at electing good leaders, but that it's hard for bad leaders to get as far as they'd like.kle4 said:
It might well be so, depressingly. If they avoid screwing up massively.Omnium said:
The main issue with Democracy isn't the politicians - it's us. We are so very far from aware of the fine detail of the issues of the day.
The Chinese are essentially running an oligarchy as far as I can make out. I think that's going to prove a better system in the long (and more populous) term.
Swiss direct democracy does work pretty well, because up to half the population are willing to put the time and thought into working out what they really think makes sense. But that requires a culture that we don't in general aspire to.
Thanks Dr Palmer. It’s good to know what you really think.0 -
Just building a Bridge to your heartAnorak said:
I'm running out of patience with your jokes.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Poker? Not a "Snap" election?williamglenn said:
She's playing poker with the Tory party.MarqueeMark said:
Well, it's high stakes poker. And May has to go all in.....Big_G_NorthWales said:
I would expect Hammond to slash corporation tax on a no dealrottenborough said:
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Depends if it increases chances of more employment (and therefore taxes), business, therefore vat, and profit for CT.Foxy said:
Lower Council tax doesn't seem to do so!Big_G_NorthWales said:
Lower taxes increases tax take but the left do not see itJonathan said:
Magic money tree.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I would expect Hammond to slash corporation tax on a no dealrottenborough said:
One of the interesting aspects of the end of the class war, with ABCDE voters becoming nearly equal between the parties on voting, is that Tory slash and burn policies to the welfare state may well lose them the next election.0 -
Whenever someone says X will create Y new jobs, you can be 99% sure that such forecasts are utter bullshit.FrancisUrquhart said:Following a fraught summer dominated by rows over antisemitism, a Labour spokesman played down expectations that Corbyn would apologise directly to the Jewish community in his speech, suggesting that he had already done so.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/25/corbyn-vows-to-end-greed-is-good-capitalism-in-uk0 -
Best wishes to Justin and family.0
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I remember one particular announcement by Mandy's on green jobs been found to be particularly bullshit....I seemed to remember it included people working at petrol stations and welly makers...glw said:
Whenever someone says X will create Y new jobs, you can be 99% sure that such forecasts are utter bullshit.FrancisUrquhart said:Following a fraught summer dominated by rows over antisemitism, a Labour spokesman played down expectations that Corbyn would apologise directly to the Jewish community in his speech, suggesting that he had already done so.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/25/corbyn-vows-to-end-greed-is-good-capitalism-in-uk0 -
Cutting taxes for Remainer fat cats would be the cherry on the top of Brexit.philiph said:
Depends if it increases chances of more employment (and therefore taxes), business, therefore vat, and profit for CT.Foxy said:
Lower Council tax doesn't seem to do so!Big_G_NorthWales said:
Lower taxes increases tax take but the left do not see itJonathan said:
Magic money tree.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I would expect Hammond to slash corporation tax on a no dealrottenborough said:
One of the interesting aspects of the end of the class war, with ABCDE voters becoming nearly equal between the parties on voting, is that Tory slash and burn policies to the welfare state may well lose them the next election.
I can see that playing well with their new voters in the coalfields.0 -
I would treat remainer and brexit fat cats the same for tax.Foxy said:
Cutting taxes for Remainer fat cats would be the cherry on the top of Brexit.philiph said:
Depends if it increases chances of more employment (and therefore taxes), business, therefore vat, and profit for CT.Foxy said:
Lower Council tax doesn't seem to do so!Big_G_NorthWales said:
Lower taxes increases tax take but the left do not see itJonathan said:
Magic money tree.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I would expect Hammond to slash corporation tax on a no dealrottenborough said:
One of the interesting aspects of the end of the class war, with ABCDE voters becoming nearly equal between the parties on voting, is that Tory slash and burn policies to the welfare state may well lose them the next election.
I can see that playing well with their new voters in the coalfields.0 -
It does sound like a policy that Antifrank suggested post Brexit. Tax cuts for Remainia, paid for by cuts to pensions and in work benefits in Leaverstan.philiph said:
I would treat remainer and brexit fat cats the same for tax.Foxy said:
Cutting taxes for Remainer fat cats would be the cherry on the top of Brexit.philiph said:
Depends if it increases chances of more employment (and therefore taxes), business, therefore vat, and profit for CT.Foxy said:
Lower Council tax doesn't seem to do so!Big_G_NorthWales said:
Lower taxes increases tax take but the left do not see itJonathan said:
Magic money tree.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I would expect Hammond to slash corporation tax on a no dealrottenborough said:
One of the interesting aspects of the end of the class war, with ABCDE voters becoming nearly equal between the parties on voting, is that Tory slash and burn policies to the welfare state may well lose them the next election.
I can see that playing well with their new voters in the coalfields.
0 -
What’s the difference between the German car industry and the Northern Ireland government ?
The German managers are still turning up to work...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-456430310 -
Given Brexit will almost certainly lead to a fall in public revenues I expect the government to extract every penny of tax that it can.0
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The fact that one of our two main parties got a hung parliament in their third general election out of power is in no way comparable to joining the Euro, a policy which has never had anywhere near majority support in the UK from the day it was launched and which would effectively end our position as an independent economy, the Eurozone is run by Germany in all but nameJonathan said:
Maybe, maybe not.HYUFD said:
If the likes of Greece continue to have 20% unemployment in the Eurozone while Germany has 4% unemployment in the same currency area the Eurozone may well have collapsed in 20 years under its own contradictions or at least lost some of the southern European statesJonathan said:
10 years ago no one would have seriously backed Corbyn or Trump. We do not know what the next 10 years might bring.HYUFD said:
That does not follow at all, the first two are populist movements, the Euro anything but.Jonathan said:
If Corbyn can lead Labour and Trump can be president, the UK can enter the Euro. It will happen two years post Brexit when the hommous finally runs out.williamglenn said:
British membership of the Euro will be the next.Jonathan said:
It’s fascinating. Wondering if there’s precedent for this. Has a strand of political thought seemingly defeated and irrelevant risen back to life so quickly.rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/alexnunns/status/1044664825803083777
Four or five years ago, this would have been three people.
A changed party.
About 10% more people back No Deal Brexit than joining the Euro at the moment and many Remain voters, myself included, would have voted Leave had joining the Euro been a requirement of staying in the EU
What I do know is that people here couldn’t predict the outcome of the last election even after the exit poll was published. Things are so volatile, anything- even joining the Euro- is possible.0 -
Emissions tests on diesel cars have not been carried out during MOTs in Northern Ireland for 12 years, despite being legally required.FF43 said:Given Brexit will almost certainly lead to a fall in public revenues I expect the government to extract every penny of tax that it can.
The tests were crucial, an air pollution expert told BBC Spotlight, and not to do them was "virtually criminal".
I'm confused - if it is legally required surely it is criminal not to do them, not 'virtually criminal'?
Funny it twelve years for anyone to notice enough to care though.0 -
Because council tax has no incentive or disincentive context. The only impact it could have is in changing people’s choices as to the value of the home they occupy. Council tax needs to rise each year to maintain the inflationary aspect. Freezing it for about four years in a row which is what we had between 2011 and 2015 across many areas had as much impact on council, resources as the ‘cuts’,did.Foxy said:
Lower Council tax doesn't seem to do so!Big_G_NorthWales said:
Lower taxes increases tax take but the left do not see itJonathan said:
Magic money tree.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I would expect Hammond to slash corporation tax on a no dealrottenborough said:
One of the interesting aspects of the end of the class war, with ABCDE voters becoming nearly equal between the parties on voting, is that Tory slash and burn policies to the welfare state may well lose them the next election.
0 -
Biggest yes. Let's hope greatest. I can think of no more wonderful thing than that those great embracers of railways, civil service, and 'tea-drinking in the western style' somehow manage to be the inheritors and exemplary practitioners of the thing that it was all about in the first place.HYUFD said:
India is the world's greatest democracy and it is catching up with China and will soon overtake it in terms of population while also continuing to rise up the ranks of the top 10 economiesOmnium said:
Democracy is a system well suited to city-states. We all know it's not that suited to big states. There's quite a big influence of birth still.ydoethur said:
Today I was teaching about the Russian Empire and the contrasting (failed) approaches of Alexander II and Alexander III. The general consensus was that what it really showed was that by the late nineteenth century the job of a Tsar was impossible.
I wonder if the job of a leader of a democratic country is going the same way. Of course, they have the advantage of not being selected solely on the basis of having emerged from the right vagina in the right order, but it still seems to be getting uncomfortably difficult for anyone not really quite extraordinary.
The leaders of the Democratic states may well arrive in office without understanding the system. I'm not sure that any of them ever do. Trump is a new feature in that he's chosen not to understand, not to pay attention, and not to talk very much sense either. To a limited degree though he's made his point, and made it well.
The main issue with Democracy isn't the politicians - it's us. We are so very far from aware of the fine detail of the issues of the day.
The Chinese are essentially running an oligarchy as far as I can make out. I think that's going to prove a better system in the long (and more populous) term.
The Chinese have a different route, and although I feel a little less warm towards them than I do India I'd certainly delight in their development and achievements.
The West has managed to deliver extraordinary things in the last couple of hundred years. It's managed to provide a framework for happiness to at least some, but arguably many. If India or China can take over the baton and help more to happiness and less to sadness then I'm all for it.0 -
India is certainly forecast to join China in the top 3 global economies by 2050 alongside the USA. Ensuring the two most populous nations in the world are finally able to deliver the strong economy their citizens need can only be a good thing for the world and the global economy and international tradeOmnium said:
Biggest yes. Let's hope greatest. I can think of no more wonderful thing than that those great embracers of railways, civil service, and 'tea-drinking in the western style' somehow manage to be the inheritors and exemplary practitioners of the thing that it was all about in the first place.HYUFD said:
India is the world's greatest democracy and it is catching up with China and will soon overtake it in terms of population while also continuing to rise up the ranks of the top 10 economiesOmnium said:
Democracy is a system well suited to city-states. We all know it's not that suited to big states. There's quite a big influence of birth still.ydoethur said:
Today I was teaching about the Russian Empire and the contrasting (failed) approaches of Alexander II and Alexander III. The general consensus was that what it really showed was that by the late nineteenth century the job of a Tsar was impossible.
I wonder if the job of a leader of a democratic country is going the same way. Of course, they have the advantage of not being selected solely on the basis of having emerged from the right vagina in the right order, but it still seems to be getting uncomfortably difficult for anyone not really quite extraordinary.
The leaders of the Democratic states may well arrive in office without understanding the system. I'm not sure that any of them ever do. Trump is a new feature in that he's chosen not to understand, not to pay attention, and not to talk very much sense either. To a limited degree though he's made his point, and made it well.
The main issue with Democracy isn't the politicians - it's us. We are so very far from aware of the fine detail of the issues of the day.
The Chinese are essentially running an oligarchy as far as I can make out. I think that's going to prove a better system in the long (and more populous) term.
The Chinese have a different route, and although I feel a little less warm towards them than I do India I'd certainly delight in their development and achievements.
The West has managed to deliver extraordinary things in the last couple of hundred years. It's managed to provide a framework for happiness to at least some, but arguably many. If India or China can take over the baton and help more to happiness and less to sadness then I'm all for it.0 -
Why would increased revenues lead to worse public services?anothernick said:
And what will happen to public services? Make them the worst in the G20?williamglenn said:0 -
Maybe I am wrong. Maybe you will be quick to tell me I am wrong. But Tuesdays events feels like a significant moment.rottenborough said:Good summary of the contortions over Brexit and Labour:
https://www.politico.eu/article/why-jeremy-corbyn-is-still-half-hearted-about-europe/
The show of hands and feeling on the Labour conference floor for what was basically the word Remain, it was overwhelming not nearly matching the “deeply split” summary of the political commentators. All week it’s been nowhere near an evenly split party.
But it was more than that. It doesn’t even feel like base split from leadership. It was Corbyn in his interviews attributing leave vote in Labour areas as railing against deindustrialisation and fly by night economics, leaving EU not an answer to the problems; it suggests a willingness to engage with Labour leavers and change their mind too.
To be honest, I think Corbyn has been on a journey and is now in a different place as regards Britain and Europe, if there was another ref with Remain on a ballot i predict a different Corbyn in the Labour heartlands, turning as many as he could to remain. I wouldn’t have said that last week,0 -
I visited Stormont today, for the first time. Although the chamber wasn't sitting, I was surprised to find that other activities, such as select committees (or whatever their version of them are) were taking place.Nigelb said:What’s the difference between the German car industry and the Northern Ireland government ?
The German managers are still turning up to work...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-456430310 -
Of course they do!CarlottaVance said:0 -
If they do, then it gives the EU an effective veto on the UK ever leaving the SM/CU.Philip_Thompson said:
Of course they do!CarlottaVance said:0 -
Not in the next ten yearsJonathan said:
Maybe, maybe not.HYUFD said:
If the likes of Greece continue to have 20% unemployment in the Eurozone while Germany has 4% unemployment in the same currency area the Eurozone may well have collapsed in 20 years under its own contradictions or at least lost some of the southern European statesJonathan said:
10 years ago no one would have seriously backed Corbyn or Trump. We do not know what the next 10 years might bring.HYUFD said:
That does not follow at all, the first two are populist movements, the Euro anything but.Jonathan said:
If Corbyn can lead Labour and Trump can be president, the UK can enter the Euro. It will happen two years post Brexit when the hommous finally runs out.williamglenn said:
British membership of the Euro will be the next.Jonathan said:
It’s fascinating. Wondering if there’s precedent for this. Has a strand of political thought seemingly defeated and irrelevant risen back to life so quickly.rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/alexnunns/status/1044664825803083777
Four or five years ago, this would have been three people.
A changed party.
About 10% more people back No Deal Brexit than joining the Euro at the moment and many Remain voters, myself included, would have voted Leave had joining the Euro been a requirement of staying in the EU
What I do know is that people here couldn’t predict the outcome of the last election even after the exit poll was published. Things are so volatile, anything- even joining the Euro- is possible.
0 -
Which is why it was a stupid thing to agree.williamglenn said:
If they do, then it gives the EU an effective veto on the UK ever leaving the SM/CU.Philip_Thompson said:
Of course they do!CarlottaVance said:
It doesn't give the EU an effective veto on NI being a part of our own market.0 -
Sorry to hear this news. Best wishes to your brother and the family.justin124 said:I hope you will allow me to share something personal. In the last few days I have received unwelcome news regarding the health of a brother about to reach 61 - three years younger than myself. He has inherited Polycystic Kidney Disease - rather rampant on my mother's side of the family - as have my two other brothers. My sister and I are forunate in not being affected. Whilst three siblings have been diagnosed with this condition , my brother alone has suffered renal failure to date.He was overjoyed when his wife indicated her willingness to be a Living Donor back in 2007 - but no transplant operation could occur until his kidney function had declined to a low critical level. That finally took place in late June this year , but whilst the operation was a technical success it has sadly now become clear that the new kidney has been rejected. My brother will now have to rely on Dialysis - and this news has to be a heavy psychological and emotional blow to him - and indeed to his wife.
I have given the matter some thought - and am to see my GP on October 10th to discuss the possibility of my becoming a Living Donor too. I will insist, however, that my brother and the rest of my family have no knowledge of this unless - and until - the issue reaches an advanced stage. Nothing could be more cruel than to raise his hopes - only to have them so cruelly dashed again.0 -
Somebody has been copying their homework....
2009
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/earthnews/5734229/Green-revolution-could-create-400000-jobs-claim-ministers.html
2018
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6207779/Jeremy-Corbyn-announce-green-jobs-revolution-plans-promising-400-000-new-jobs.html
0 -
I wouldn’t have said that last week, because I’m sure There’s some hard bitten lefty brexiteers who looked up as babes from the feet of Benn, Foot, Shore, they’ve never let go both the freemarket enemy and lack of democracy message handed down. But the key point is in contrast to Benn and Foot back then, they are not trying to re educate where the party is now, not on soap boxes at Labour Leave events or in newspaper articles trying to convince people. they are not being brave or as articulate about it as Tory Brexiteers.LordOfReason said:
Maybe I am wrong. Maybe you will be quick to tell me I am wrong. But Tuesdays events feels like a significant moment.rottenborough said:Good summary of the contortions over Brexit and Labour:
https://www.politico.eu/article/why-jeremy-corbyn-is-still-half-hearted-about-europe/
The show of hands and feeling on the Labour conference floor for what was basically the word Remain, it was overwhelming not nearly matching the “deeply split” summary of the political commentators.
But it was more than that, Corbyn in his interviews attributing leave vote in Labour areas as railing against deindustrialisation and fly by night economics, leaving EU not an answer to the problems; it suggests a willingness to engage with Labour leavers and change their mind too. if there was another ref with Remain on a ballot i predict a different Corbyn out in the Labour heartlands, turning as many as he could to remain. I wouldn’t have said that last week,
the Brexit difference between Labour and Tories right now is Labour brexiteers don’t care nearly as much about Brexit, the suggestion it wont happen rankles them, but no mouth foaming, their focus is take control of country, be it still in, totally crashed out, or scratching its head somewhere in the middle.
Maybe its because there is chance they can get to Downing Street and that project matters more so why upset it.
or Maybe it’s more than that. British politics relationship with Europe ow fundamentally changed. 73, the Tories took us in, though Heath needed a large rump of PLP to defy 3 line whip cat calls, thumps and spat on to follow him through the lobby. 1975, Labour big hitters tried to get us to reject membership, Tory Big Hitters such as leader Maggie fought to keep us in. 1983 Labours manifesto commitment was take us out, no ref just plain out, Pro Euro Labour Cabinet Minister gave Tory attack dogs “Longest Suicide Note In History” line.
Am I alone in thinking its completely the other way round these days. Then Why?
It has to be generational, those who carried the vote at Liverpool yesterday born and grown up in EU so feel like EU citizens, being in it doesn’t feel like a problem to them. analysing 2016 vote shows a big generational difference of opinion. What you are socialised into shapes your politics.0 -
"Famed mathematician claims proof of 160-year-old Riemann hypothesis"
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2180406-famed-mathematician-claims-proof-of-160-year-old-riemann-hypothesis/0 -
Completely agree.Philip_Thompson said:
Which is why it was a stupid thing to agree.williamglenn said:
If they do, then it gives the EU an effective veto on the UK ever leaving the SM/CU.Philip_Thompson said:
Of course they do!CarlottaVance said:
It doesn't give the EU an effective veto on NI being a part of our own market.
The best May can offer is the time limited UK wide backstop she proposed a few months ago. But she should never have gone down this road.0 -
That’s not a backstop though, just a form of transition extension.archer101au said:
Completely agree.Philip_Thompson said:
Which is why it was a stupid thing to agree.williamglenn said:
If they do, then it gives the EU an effective veto on the UK ever leaving the SM/CU.Philip_Thompson said:
Of course they do!CarlottaVance said:
It doesn't give the EU an effective veto on NI being a part of our own market.
The best May can offer is the time limited UK wide backstop she proposed a few months ago. But she should never have gone down this road.0 -
Quite. A backstop is not deliverable. So either the EU drop it or there will be no deal.williamglenn said:
That’s not a backstop though, just a form of transition extension.archer101au said:
Completely agree.Philip_Thompson said:
Which is why it was a stupid thing to agree.williamglenn said:
If they do, then it gives the EU an effective veto on the UK ever leaving the SM/CU.Philip_Thompson said:
Of course they do!CarlottaVance said:
It doesn't give the EU an effective veto on NI being a part of our own market.
The best May can offer is the time limited UK wide backstop she proposed a few months ago. But she should never have gone down this road.0 -
% of British adults who "have not heard of them" Barry Gardiner = 87% Angela Rayner = 66% Keir Starmer = 58% John McDonnell = 50% Tom Watson = 49% Emily Thornberry = 49% Shami Chakrabarti = 47% Never overestimate how much ppl tune in YouGov Sep190
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Brave man justin - sounds like your brother is very lucky to have you. Sure beats a card and chocolates as a potential present...justin124 said:I hope you will allow me to share something personal. In the last few days I have received unwelcome news regarding the health of a brother about to reach 61 - three years younger than myself. He has inherited Polycystic Kidney Disease - rather rampant on my mother's side of the family - as have my two other brothers. My sister and I are forunate in not being affected. Whilst three siblings have been diagnosed with this condition , my brother alone has suffered renal failure to date.He was overjoyed when his wife indicated her willingness to be a Living Donor back in 2007 - but no transplant operation could occur until his kidney function had declined to a low critical level. That finally took place in late June this year , but whilst the operation was a technical success it has sadly now become clear that the new kidney has been rejected. My brother will now have to rely on Dialysis - and this news has to be a heavy psychological and emotional blow to him - and indeed to his wife.
I have given the matter some thought - and am to see my GP on October 10th to discuss the possibility of my becoming a Living Donor too. I will insist, however, that my brother and the rest of my family have no knowledge of this unless - and until - the issue reaches an advanced stage. Nothing could be more cruel than to raise his hopes - only to have them so cruelly dashed again.0 -
Bravo to you, sir. Wishing your brother well.justin124 said:I hope you will allow me to share something personal. In the last few days I have received unwelcome news regarding the health of a brother about to reach 61 - three years younger than myself. He has inherited Polycystic Kidney Disease - rather rampant on my mother's side of the family - as have my two other brothers. My sister and I are forunate in not being affected. Whilst three siblings have been diagnosed with this condition , my brother alone has suffered renal failure to date.He was overjoyed when his wife indicated her willingness to be a Living Donor back in 2007 - but no transplant operation could occur until his kidney function had declined to a low critical level. That finally took place in late June this year , but whilst the operation was a technical success it has sadly now become clear that the new kidney has been rejected. My brother will now have to rely on Dialysis - and this news has to be a heavy psychological and emotional blow to him - and indeed to his wife.
I have given the matter some thought - and am to see my GP on October 10th to discuss the possibility of my becoming a Living Donor too. I will insist, however, that my brother and the rest of my family have no knowledge of this unless - and until - the issue reaches an advanced stage. Nothing could be more cruel than to raise his hopes - only to have them so cruelly dashed again.
0 -
@justin124
Prayers and best wishes to you and all your family. You're in a horrible situation and I really hope you all come through it.0 -
It's right up there on the Radio 2 news along with a clip of her saying it ... the only sound clip from the Lab conference and just after their lead story on what JC will say today in his speech....NickPalmer said:
Pretty silly, but from the picture was one of the hundreds of fringe meetings. Doubt if it will resonate far.rottenborough said:John McD will be furious with Laura Smith MP. He has spent the last few days trying to appear like a reasonable bank manager, and then one of his MPs goes off and says lets have a General Strike and bring down a democratically elected government.
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