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  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Mortimer said:

    Anazina said:

    Mortimer said:

    Anazina said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Anazina said:

    Thornberry for leader with Starmer as shadchan would be my pick.

    Lady Throberry who looks down her nose on the great unwashed and Starmer who wants to overturn the vote's of 17m people and make them keep voting until they get it right.

    What can possibly go wrong...
    Not the England flags again! Some nutter who covers his house in England flags - what an absolute helmet he is.
    Sneer away; it won't win your lot votes....
    Here we go - PB’s most patronising poster in history pipes up. Would you (or your wife) like to live next to this bellend? No. So pipe down.
    I have no problem with flags - our neighbours could cover their house in EU flags if they like; it’s their house.

    They could, but I get annoyed with the Labour voter (because he is, I remember GE2017) in the small sleepy Hampshire village of Medstead 4 miles away from me who flies an EU flag from his house day in, day out.
    We have a Hampshire flag in London (alongside a City flag and a California bear)
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,628
    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    ydoethur said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Yes

    Jonathan said:

    Anazina said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Anazina said:

    Thornberry for leader with Starmer as shadchan would be my pick.

    Lady Throberry who looks down her nose on the great unwashed and Starmer who wants to overturn the vote's of 17m people and make them keep voting until they get it right.

    What can possibly go wrong...
    Not the England flags again! Some nutter who covers his house in England flags - what an absolute helmet he is.
    My wife flies the union jack, the scots and welsh flags in our garden. Is she a nutter
    How very American.
    No British

    Have you been to Scotland and seen the numbers of saltires flying
    Sure. I remember when we were confident as a nation, we knew who we were and didn’t need to fly flags. We’ve lost something.
    I'll be really worried when people start singing the National Anthem all the time.

    Not because of jingoism, but because it's such a shite piece of music.
    By shite, you must mean congregational. Would you prefer an anthem like that of the Latin American countries which the man on the Quito omnibus has no chance of singing?

    Performed as a vocal trio with Baroque instruments and the original words, it’s quite fun. Perhaps this is what they should do at football matches.
    I'll take the Welsh national anthem, with pleasure. Or the French one (can feel TSE plotting my death already). Even the Italian one (although I think most Italians prefer Aida). Not the British though, it's just dull.

    I do prefer the Argentine national anthem, and I can actually sing it. Or Advance Australia Fair although again I prefer Waltzing Matilda.
    Argentina? ARGENTINA?

    Wash your mouth out with soap.

    Russia’s is the clearly the best.
    I will admit that is a good singable anthem. Kazakhstan's has its good points as well (and no, I don't mean the theme tune from Borat).
    The only good thing about East Germany was its anthem.
    Come on. No country that gave us the Trabant could be entirely awful.
    And boy, did they show Trump up in the wall-building stakes....
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    stodge said:

    Just watched TM interviewed and she did her best Maybot. Looked very tired and tetchy

    I do not envy her job at all

    Edit : Just remembered I am not supposed to critise her - sorry

    Well, you've not lost your sense of humour to be fair.

    I'm a known critic of the Conservative Party and the Prime Minister but I wouldn't want her health and her sanity to suffer because of the job.

    Politics isn't one-dimensional - there were aspects of John McDonnell's speech I liked yesterday and both Starmer and Thornberry did well today. There's even a decent piece with Tom Watson in tonight's Evening Standard and Watson gets a reasonable mention from George Osborne in the Editorial.

    I also think Labour's contortions over Brexit aren't much different to those of the Conservatives.
    Today I was teaching about the Russian Empire and the contrasting (failed) approaches of Alexander II and Alexander III. The general consensus was that what it really showed was that by the late nineteenth century the job of a Tsar was impossible.

    I wonder if the job of a leader of a democratic country is going the same way. Of course, they have the advantage of not being selected solely on the basis of having emerged from the right vagina in the right order, but it still seems to be getting uncomfortably difficult for anyone not really quite extraordinary.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    Anazina said:

    felix said:

    Anazina said:

    France and Wales have the best national anthems.

    Russia’s not far behind.

    Ours is an utter dirge. We should have switched to Jerusalem decades ago.

    I'm not sure 'Oh Jeremy' would find it easy to join in a heart rendition of Jerusalem.
    Who cares? Corbyn’s views on the topic matter little to me.
    You clearly missed out on the irony lesson at school.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,158
    edited September 2018
    Anazina said:

    France and Wales have the best national anthems.

    Russia’s not far behind.

    Ours is an utter dirge. We should have switched to Jerusalem decades ago.

    Why do the Spanish never sing their national anthem at sporting events...no googling..
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,628
    Charles said:

    Mortimer said:

    Anazina said:

    Mortimer said:

    Anazina said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Anazina said:

    Thornberry for leader with Starmer as shadchan would be my pick.

    Lady Throberry who looks down her nose on the great unwashed and Starmer who wants to overturn the vote's of 17m people and make them keep voting until they get it right.

    What can possibly go wrong...
    Not the England flags again! Some nutter who covers his house in England flags - what an absolute helmet he is.
    Sneer away; it won't win your lot votes....
    Here we go - PB’s most patronising poster in history pipes up. Would you (or your wife) like to live next to this bellend? No. So pipe down.
    I have no problem with flags - our neighbours could cover their house in EU flags if they like; it’s their house.

    They could, but I get annoyed with the Labour voter (because he is, I remember GE2017) in the small sleepy Hampshire village of Medstead 4 miles away from me who flies an EU flag from his house day in, day out.
    We have a Hampshire flag in London (alongside a City flag and a California bear)
    Devon's flag of St. Petroc is quite a good one:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Devon#/media/File:Flag_of_Devon.svg
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    ydoethur said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Yes

    Jonathan said:

    Anazina said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Anazina said:

    Thornberry for leader with Starmer as shadchan would be my pick.

    Lady Throberry who looks down her nose on the great unwashed and Starmer who wants to overturn the vote's of 17m people and make them keep voting until they get it right.

    What can possibly go wrong...
    Not the England flags again! Some nutter who covers his house in England flags - what an absolute helmet he is.
    My wife flies the union jack, the scots and welsh flags in our garden. Is she a nutter
    How very American.
    No British

    Have you been to Scotland and seen the numbers of saltires flying
    Sure. I remember when we were confident as a nation, we knew who we were and didn’t need to fly flags. We’ve lost something.
    I'll be really worried when people start singing the National Anthem all the time.

    Not because of jingoism, but because it's such a shite piece of music.
    By shite, you must mean congregational. Would you prefer an anthem like that of the Latin American countries which the man on the Quito omnibus has no chance of singing?

    Performed as a vocal trio with Baroque instruments and the original words, it’s quite fun. Perhaps this is what they should do at football matches.
    I'll take the Welsh national anthem, with pleasure. Or the French one (can feel TSE plotting my death already). Even the Italian one (although I think most Italians prefer Aida). Not the British though, it's just dull.

    I do prefer the Argentine national anthem, and I can actually sing it. Or Advance Australia Fair although again I prefer Waltzing Matilda.
    Argentina? ARGENTINA?

    Wash your mouth out with soap.

    Russia’s is the clearly the best.
    I will admit that is a good singable anthem. Kazakhstan's has its good points as well (and no, I don't mean the theme tune from Borat).
    The only good thing about East Germany was its anthem.
    Come on. No country that gave us the Trabant could be entirely awful.
    And boy, did they show Trump up in the wall-building stakes....
    Indeed yes.

    One question - did Ulbricht get the Soviets to pay for it as well?
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,726

    Anazina said:

    France and Wales have the best national anthems.

    Russia’s not far behind.

    Ours is an utter dirge. We should have switched to Jerusalem decades ago.

    Why do the Spanish never sing their national anthem at sporting events...not googling..
    Lost for words.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Good job she's always been consistent on such things in the past and never gone back on her...ah.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,628
    edited September 2018
    GIN1138 said:
    “I agree with Jeremy. We are united”

    And Keir do you agree with Keir?

    “Jeremy agrees with Keir and I agree with Jeremy”

    Singing:

    Hans plays with Lotte, Lotte plays with Jane
    Jane plays with Willi, Willi is happy again
    Suki plays with Leo, Sacha plays with Britt
    Adolf builds a bonfire, Enrico plays with it
  • At this moment in time she is right and I doubt she wants to upset Brenda from Bristol
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    She know's Con will never let her run another general election campaign after last years shambles...
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    edited September 2018
    That's not to say there can't be another general election with someone else fronting it though... ;)
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,677
    Good grief we’re having a snap election.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    There’s an “i” missing in that sentence.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Jonathan said:

    Good grief we’re having a snap election.

    More a snap erection, that is, an unexpected cock-up.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,677
    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Good grief we’re having a snap election.

    More a snap erection, that is, an unexpected cock-up.
    Time for a stiff one.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Good grief we’re having a snap election.

    More a snap erection, that is, an unexpected cock-up.
    Time for a stiff one.
    That's a hard one to keep up with...
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,726
    Cyclefree said:

    There’s an “i” missing in that sentence.
    Ha!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,628
    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Good grief we’re having a snap election.

    More a snap erection, that is, an unexpected cock-up.
    Time for a stiff one.
    That's a hard one to keep up with...
    You wood say that.
  • https://twitter.com/hudaelmi_/status/1044627768288464897

    Curses through? A Freudian slip per chance?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,677
    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Good grief we’re having a snap election.

    More a snap erection, that is, an unexpected cock-up.
    Time for a stiff one.
    That's a hard one to keep up with...
    You came close, keep your pecker up.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,158
    edited September 2018
    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Good grief we’re having a snap election.

    More a snap erection, that is, an unexpected cock-up.
    Time for a stiff one.
    That's a hard one to keep up with...
    Cable will have an exotic spresm...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,628

    https://twitter.com/hudaelmi_/status/1044627768288464897

    Curses through? A Freudian slip per chance?

    Hamas of typo!
  • In fairness who is that leader

    Jeremy Hunt, he's a Prime Minister in waiting.
    Hunt or Sajid for me - but in the next few weeks
    I couldn't have put it better than that myself ;)
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,781
    ydoethur said:

    stodge said:

    Just watched TM interviewed and she did her best Maybot. Looked very tired and tetchy

    I do not envy her job at all

    Edit : Just remembered I am not supposed to critise her - sorry

    Well, you've not lost your sense of humour to be fair.

    I'm a known critic of the Conservative Party and the Prime Minister but I wouldn't want her health and her sanity to suffer because of the job.

    Politics isn't one-dimensional - there were aspects of John McDonnell's speech I liked yesterday and both Starmer and Thornberry did well today. There's even a decent piece with Tom Watson in tonight's Evening Standard and Watson gets a reasonable mention from George Osborne in the Editorial.

    I also think Labour's contortions over Brexit aren't much different to those of the Conservatives.
    Today I was teaching about the Russian Empire and the contrasting (failed) approaches of Alexander II and Alexander III. The general consensus was that what it really showed was that by the late nineteenth century the job of a Tsar was impossible.

    I wonder if the job of a leader of a democratic country is going the same way. Of course, they have the advantage of not being selected solely on the basis of having emerged from the right vagina in the right order, but it still seems to be getting uncomfortably difficult for anyone not really quite extraordinary.
    Democracy is a system well suited to city-states. We all know it's not that suited to big states. There's quite a big influence of birth still.

    The leaders of the Democratic states may well arrive in office without understanding the system. I'm not sure that any of them ever do. Trump is a new feature in that he's chosen not to understand, not to pay attention, and not to talk very much sense either. To a limited degree though he's made his point, and made it well.

    The main issue with Democracy isn't the politicians - it's us. We are so very far from aware of the fine detail of the issues of the day.

    The Chinese are essentially running an oligarchy as far as I can make out. I think that's going to prove a better system in the long (and more populous) term.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Good grief we’re having a snap election.

    More a snap erection, that is, an unexpected cock-up.
    Time for a stiff one.
    That's a hard one to keep up with...
    You came close, keep your pecker up.
    You see men, it's not just about picking the right words...
  • nunuonenunuone Posts: 1,138
    This isn't getting enough attention (or any at all).

    https://twitter.com/BethanyAllenEbr/status/1044661687809449984
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Good grief we’re having a snap election.

    More a snap erection, that is, an unexpected cock-up.
    Time for a stiff one.
    That's a hard one to keep up with...
    You wood say that.
    Sir, your attempt was I fear barking.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,628

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Good grief we’re having a snap election.

    More a snap erection, that is, an unexpected cock-up.
    Time for a stiff one.
    That's a hard one to keep up with...
    Cable will be have an exotic spresm...
    Remind me, is that more or less hot frothy milk than a flat white?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,677
    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Good grief we’re having a snap election.

    More a snap erection, that is, an unexpected cock-up.
    Time for a stiff one.
    That's a hard one to keep up with...
    You came close, keep your pecker up.
    You see men, it's not just about picking the right words...
    Come again?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,158
    edited September 2018
    nunuone said:

    This isn't getting enough attention (or any at all).

    https://twitter.com/BethanyAllenEbr/status/1044661687809449984

    On a similar related note, John Oliver did a good piece on Facebook in Burma on Sunday. I haven't seen that story covered anywhere really before.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    Usage of that image in the thread header should be banned until they uncover the Elizabeth Tower again. Mark of respec, innit.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    edited September 2018
    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Good grief we’re having a snap election.

    More a snap erection, that is, an unexpected cock-up.
    Time for a stiff one.
    That's a hard one to keep up with...
    You came close, keep your pecker up.
    You see men, it's not just about picking the right words...
    Come again?
    I've got to hand it to you, you're on form tonight!

    Edit - I fear I shall have to sperm further punning, ova a need for a decent night's rest. Nos da i gyd.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Charles said:

    Mortimer said:

    Anazina said:

    Mortimer said:

    Anazina said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Anazina said:

    Thornberry for leader with Starmer as shadchan would be my pick.

    Lady Throberry who looks down her nose on the great unwashed and Starmer who wants to overturn the vote's of 17m people and make them keep voting until they get it right.

    What can possibly go wrong...
    Not the England flags again! Some nutter who covers his house in England flags - what an absolute helmet he is.
    Sneer away; it won't win your lot votes....
    Here we go - PB’s most patronising poster in history pipes up. Would you (or your wife) like to live next to this bellend? No. So pipe down.
    I have no problem with flags - our neighbours could cover their house in EU flags if they like; it’s their house.

    They could, but I get annoyed with the Labour voter (because he is, I remember GE2017) in the small sleepy Hampshire village of Medstead 4 miles away from me who flies an EU flag from his house day in, day out.
    We have a Hampshire flag in London (alongside a City flag and a California bear)
    I went to Stourhead on Sunday, not for the first time but the first time sober and in daylight. If you've got that in Wiltshire why would you want to fly a Hants flag?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,677
    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Good grief we’re having a snap election.

    More a snap erection, that is, an unexpected cock-up.
    Time for a stiff one.
    That's a hard one to keep up with...
    You came close, keep your pecker up.
    You see men, it's not just about picking the right words...
    Come again?
    I've got to hand it to you, you're on form tonight!
    You deserve a standing ovation.
  • https://twitter.com/alexnunns/status/1044664825803083777

    Four or five years ago, this would have been three people.

    A changed party.
  • Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Good grief we’re having a snap election.

    More a snap erection, that is, an unexpected cock-up.
    Time for a stiff one.
    That's a hard one to keep up with...
    You came close, keep your pecker up.
    You see men, it's not just about picking the right words...
    Come again?
    I've got to hand it to you, you're on form tonight!
    You deserve a standing ovation.
    Im keeping out of this one, it might mushroom into something unacceptable.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,677

    https://twitter.com/alexnunns/status/1044664825803083777

    Four or five years ago, this would have been three people.

    A changed party.

    It’s fascinating. Wondering if there’s precedent for this. Has a strand of political thought seemingly defeated and irrelevant risen back to life so quickly.
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    Jonathan said:

    https://twitter.com/alexnunns/status/1044664825803083777

    Four or five years ago, this would have been three people.

    A changed party.

    It’s fascinating. Wondering if there’s precedent for this. Has a strand of political thought seemingly defeated and irrelevant risen back to life so quickly.
    The Islamic Revolution in Iran?

    An encouraging precedent.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,677
    RoyalBlue said:

    Jonathan said:

    https://twitter.com/alexnunns/status/1044664825803083777

    Four or five years ago, this would have been three people.

    A changed party.

    It’s fascinating. Wondering if there’s precedent for this. Has a strand of political thought seemingly defeated and irrelevant risen back to life so quickly.
    The Islamic Revolution in Iran?

    An encouraging precedent.
    Free market laissez faire capitalism was old and discredited until Thatcher revived it.
  • Jonathan said:

    https://twitter.com/alexnunns/status/1044664825803083777

    Four or five years ago, this would have been three people.

    A changed party.

    It’s fascinating. Wondering if there’s precedent for this. Has a strand of political thought seemingly defeated and irrelevant risen back to life so quickly.
    Not exactly the same thing but WWII followed The War To End All Wars.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    I drop in for one comment, and the thread is overtaken with penis puns?

    My enthusiasm has drooped...
  • Jonathan said:

    https://twitter.com/alexnunns/status/1044664825803083777

    Four or five years ago, this would have been three people.

    A changed party.

    It’s fascinating. Wondering if there’s precedent for this. Has a strand of political thought seemingly defeated and irrelevant risen back to life so quickly.
    British membership of the Euro will be the next. ;)
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    GIN1138 said:
    “I agree with Jeremy. We are united”

    And Keir do you agree with Keir?

    “Jeremy agrees with Keir and I agree with Jeremy”

    Singing:

    Hans plays with Lotte, Lotte plays with Jane
    Jane plays with Willi, Willi is happy again
    Suki plays with Leo, Sacha plays with Britt
    Adolf builds a bonfire, Enrico plays with it
    Mary Bradley waits at home
    In the nuclear fall out zone
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited September 2018
    Jonathan said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Jonathan said:

    https://twitter.com/alexnunns/status/1044664825803083777

    Four or five years ago, this would have been three people.

    A changed party.

    It’s fascinating. Wondering if there’s precedent for this. Has a strand of political thought seemingly defeated and irrelevant risen back to life so quickly.
    The Islamic Revolution in Iran?

    An encouraging precedent.
    Free market laissez faire capitalism was old and discredited until Thatcher revived it.
    John Travolta's career trajectory.

    Megastardom --> butt of jokes --> megastardom

    He owes Quentin T a lot. I mean, picking him up after three Look Who's Talking films*?? Brave call.

    * The third film holds a perfect 0% on Rotten Tomatoes.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,677

    Jonathan said:

    https://twitter.com/alexnunns/status/1044664825803083777

    Four or five years ago, this would have been three people.

    A changed party.

    It’s fascinating. Wondering if there’s precedent for this. Has a strand of political thought seemingly defeated and irrelevant risen back to life so quickly.
    British membership of the Euro will be the next. ;)
    If Corbyn can lead Labour and Trump can be president, the UK can enter the Euro. It will happen two years post Brexit when the hommous finally runs out.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,181
    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    stodge said:

    Just watched TM interviewed and she did her best Maybot. Looked very tired and tetchy

    I do not envy her job at all

    Edit : Just remembered I am not supposed to critise her - sorry

    Well, you've not lost your sense of humour to be fair.

    I'm a known critic of the Conservative Party and the Prime Minister but I wouldn't want her health and her sanity to suffer because of the job.

    Politics isn't one-dimensional - there were aspects of John McDonnell's speech I liked yesterday and both Starmer and Thornberry did well today. There's even a decent piece with Tom Watson in tonight's Evening Standard and Watson gets a reasonable mention from George Osborne in the Editorial.

    I also think Labour's contortions over Brexit aren't much different to those of the Conservatives.
    Today I was teaching about the Russian Empire and the contrasting (failed) approaches of Alexander II and Alexander III. The general consensus was that what it really showed was that by the late nineteenth century the job of a Tsar was impossible.

    I wonder if the job of a leader of a democratic country is going the same way. Of course, they have the advantage of not being selected solely on the basis of having emerged from the right vagina in the right order, but it still seems to be getting uncomfortably difficult for anyone not really quite extraordinary.
    Democracy is a system well suited to city-states. We all know it's not that suited to big states. There's quite a big influence of birth still.

    The leaders of the Democratic states may well arrive in office without understanding the system. I'm not sure that any of them ever do. Trump is a new feature in that he's chosen not to understand, not to pay attention, and not to talk very much sense either. To a limited degree though he's made his point, and made it well.

    The main issue with Democracy isn't the politicians - it's us. We are so very far from aware of the fine detail of the issues of the day.

    The Chinese are essentially running an oligarchy as far as I can make out. I think that's going to prove a better system in the long (and more populous) term.

    It might well be so, depressingly. If they avoid screwing up massively.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Charles said:

    Mortimer said:

    Anazina said:

    Mortimer said:

    Anazina said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Anazina said:

    Thornberry for leader with Starmer as shadchan would be my pick.

    Lady Throberry who looks down her nose on the great unwashed and Starmer who wants to overturn the vote's of 17m people and make them keep voting until they get it right.

    What can possibly go wrong...
    Not the England flags again! Some nutter who covers his house in England flags - what an absolute helmet he is.
    Sneer away; it won't win your lot votes....
    Here we go - PB’s most patronising poster in history pipes up. Would you (or your wife) like to live next to this bellend? No. So pipe down.
    I have no problem with flags - our neighbours could cover their house in EU flags if they like; it’s their house.

    They could, but I get annoyed with the Labour voter (because he is, I remember GE2017) in the small sleepy Hampshire village of Medstead 4 miles away from me who flies an EU flag from his house day in, day out.
    We have a Hampshire flag in London (alongside a City flag and a California bear)
    I went to Stourhead on Sunday, not for the first time but the first time sober and in daylight. If you've got that in Wiltshire why would you want to fly a Hants flag?
    Cos I grew up at our place in Hampshire. Less draughty than Stourhead but still quite nice.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Jonathan said:

    Good grief we’re having a snap election.

    Are we?
  • In fairness who is that leader

    Jeremy Hunt, he's a Prime Minister in waiting.
    Hunt is so wet he makes Ed Milliband seem butch.
  • Jonathan said:

    https://twitter.com/alexnunns/status/1044664825803083777

    Four or five years ago, this would have been three people.

    A changed party.

    It’s fascinating. Wondering if there’s precedent for this. Has a strand of political thought seemingly defeated and irrelevant risen back to life so quickly.
    AFD in Germany?
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    I hope you will allow me to share something personal. In the last few days I have received unwelcome news regarding the health of a brother about to reach 61 - three years younger than myself. He has inherited Polycystic Kidney Disease - rather rampant on my mother's side of the family - as have my two other brothers. My sister and I are forunate in not being affected. Whilst three siblings have been diagnosed with this condition , my brother alone has suffered renal failure to date.He was overjoyed when his wife indicated her willingness to be a Living Donor back in 2007 - but no transplant operation could occur until his kidney function had declined to a low critical level. That finally took place in late June this year , but whilst the operation was a technical success it has sadly now become clear that the new kidney has been rejected. My brother will now have to rely on Dialysis - and this news has to be a heavy psychological and emotional blow to him - and indeed to his wife.
    I have given the matter some thought - and am to see my GP on October 10th to discuss the possibility of my becoming a Living Donor too. I will insist, however, that my brother and the rest of my family have no knowledge of this unless - and until - the issue reaches an advanced stage. Nothing could be more cruel than to raise his hopes - only to have them so cruelly dashed again.
  • Jonathan said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Jonathan said:

    https://twitter.com/alexnunns/status/1044664825803083777

    Four or five years ago, this would have been three people.

    A changed party.

    It’s fascinating. Wondering if there’s precedent for this. Has a strand of political thought seemingly defeated and irrelevant risen back to life so quickly.
    The Islamic Revolution in Iran?

    An encouraging precedent.
    Free market laissez faire capitalism was old and discredited until Thatcher revived it.
    You make it sound like it goes round and round, in and out of fashion.
  • Best wishes justin.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    justin124 said:

    I hope you will allow me to share something personal. In the last few days I have received unwelcome news regarding the health of a brother about to reach 61 - three years younger than myself. He has inherited Polycystic Kidney Disease - rather rampant on my mother's side of the family - as have my two other brothers. My sister and I are forunate in not being affected. Whilst three siblings have been diagnosed with this condition , my brother alone has suffered renal failure to date.He was overjoyed when his wife indicated her willingness to be a Living Donor back in 2007 - but no transplant operation could occur until his kidney function had declined to a low critical level. That finally took place in late June this year , but whilst the operation was a technical success it has sadly now become clear that the new kidney has been rejected. My brother will now have to rely on Dialysis - and this news has to be a heavy psychological and emotional blow to him - and indeed to his wife.
    I have given the matter some thought - and am to see my GP on October 10th to discuss the possibility of my becoming a Living Donor too. I will insist, however, that my brother and the rest of my family have no knowledge of this unless - and until - the issue reaches an advanced stage. Nothing could be more cruel than to raise his hopes - only to have them so cruelly dashed again.

    I’m sorry to hear that and hope it all goes well
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    justin124 said:

    I hope you will allow me to share something personal. In the last few days I have received unwelcome news regarding the health of a brother about to reach 61 - three years younger than myself. He has inherited Polycystic Kidney Disease - rather rampant on my mother's side of the family - as have my two other brothers. My sister and I are forunate in not being affected. Whilst three siblings have been diagnosed with this condition , my brother alone has suffered renal failure to date.He was overjoyed when his wife indicated her willingness to be a Living Donor back in 2007 - but no transplant operation could occur until his kidney function had declined to a low critical level. That finally took place in late June this year , but whilst the operation was a technical success it has sadly now become clear that the new kidney has been rejected. My brother will now have to rely on Dialysis - and this news has to be a heavy psychological and emotional blow to him - and indeed to his wife.
    I have given the matter some thought - and am to see my GP on October 10th to discuss the possibility of my becoming a Living Donor too. I will insist, however, that my brother and the rest of my family have no knowledge of this unless - and until - the issue reaches an advanced stage. Nothing could be more cruel than to raise his hopes - only to have them so cruelly dashed again.

    I have the utmost respect and admiration for you. I hope the situation improves, with or without your generous help.
  • justin124 said:

    I hope you will allow me to share something personal. In the last few days I have received unwelcome news regarding the health of a brother about to reach 61 - three years younger than myself. He has inherited Polycystic Kidney Disease - rather rampant on my mother's side of the family - as have my two other brothers. My sister and I are forunate in not being affected. Whilst three siblings have been diagnosed with this condition , my brother alone has suffered renal failure to date.He was overjoyed when his wife indicated her willingness to be a Living Donor back in 2007 - but no transplant operation could occur until his kidney function had declined to a low critical level. That finally took place in late June this year , but whilst the operation was a technical success it has sadly now become clear that the new kidney has been rejected. My brother will now have to rely on Dialysis - and this news has to be a heavy psychological and emotional blow to him - and indeed to his wife.
    I have given the matter some thought - and am to see my GP on October 10th to discuss the possibility of my becoming a Living Donor too. I will insist, however, that my brother and the rest of my family have no knowledge of this unless - and until - the issue reaches an advanced stage. Nothing could be more cruel than to raise his hopes - only to have them so cruelly dashed again.

    May you find the strength in your real concerns and I am sure the whole PB community sends it best wishes to you and all your family
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    justin124 said:

    I hope you will allow me to share something personal. In the last few days I have received unwelcome news regarding the health of a brother about to reach 61 - three years younger than myself. He has inherited Polycystic Kidney Disease - rather rampant on my mother's side of the family - as have my two other brothers. My sister and I are forunate in not being affected. Whilst three siblings have been diagnosed with this condition , my brother alone has suffered renal failure to date.He was overjoyed when his wife indicated her willingness to be a Living Donor back in 2007 - but no transplant operation could occur until his kidney function had declined to a low critical level. That finally took place in late June this year , but whilst the operation was a technical success it has sadly now become clear that the new kidney has been rejected. My brother will now have to rely on Dialysis - and this news has to be a heavy psychological and emotional blow to him - and indeed to his wife.
    I have given the matter some thought - and am to see my GP on October 10th to discuss the possibility of my becoming a Living Donor too. I will insist, however, that my brother and the rest of my family have no knowledge of this unless - and until - the issue reaches an advanced stage. Nothing could be more cruel than to raise his hopes - only to have them so cruelly dashed again.

    That is very generous and courageous of you. Best wishes to you, your brother and sister in law.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    It's like a Dr Who episode when he goes back to 1974. Why aren't there more flares and kipper ties in that picture?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,677
    justin124 said:

    I hope you will allow me to share something personal. In the last few days I have received unwelcome news regarding the health of a brother about to reach 61 - three years younger than myself. He has inherited Polycystic Kidney Disease - rather rampant on my mother's side of the family - as have my two other brothers. My sister and I are forunate in not being affected. Whilst three siblings have been diagnosed with this condition , my brother alone has suffered renal failure to date.He was overjoyed when his wife indicated her willingness to be a Living Donor back in 2007 - but no transplant operation could occur until his kidney function had declined to a low critical level. That finally took place in late June this year , but whilst the operation was a technical success it has sadly now become clear that the new kidney has been rejected. My brother will now have to rely on Dialysis - and this news has to be a heavy psychological and emotional blow to him - and indeed to his wife.
    I have given the matter some thought - and am to see my GP on October 10th to discuss the possibility of my becoming a Living Donor too. I will insist, however, that my brother and the rest of my family have no knowledge of this unless - and until - the issue reaches an advanced stage. Nothing could be more cruel than to raise his hopes - only to have them so cruelly dashed again.

    I am struck by your bravery and kindness. My prayers and best wishes are with you and yours.
  • Labour MPs 2018. Openly talking about a General Strike to try and overturn a democratically elected government.
  • All the best Justin. Hope the situation improves for you and your family .
  • justin124 said:

    I hope you will allow me to share something personal. In the last few days I have received unwelcome news regarding the health of a brother about to reach 61 - three years younger than myself. He has inherited Polycystic Kidney Disease - rather rampant on my mother's side of the family - as have my two other brothers. My sister and I are forunate in not being affected. Whilst three siblings have been diagnosed with this condition , my brother alone has suffered renal failure to date.He was overjoyed when his wife indicated her willingness to be a Living Donor back in 2007 - but no transplant operation could occur until his kidney function had declined to a low critical level. That finally took place in late June this year , but whilst the operation was a technical success it has sadly now become clear that the new kidney has been rejected. My brother will now have to rely on Dialysis - and this news has to be a heavy psychological and emotional blow to him - and indeed to his wife.
    I have given the matter some thought - and am to see my GP on October 10th to discuss the possibility of my becoming a Living Donor too. I will insist, however, that my brother and the rest of my family have no knowledge of this unless - and until - the issue reaches an advanced stage. Nothing could be more cruel than to raise his hopes - only to have them so cruelly dashed again.

    Sorry to hear about this - dialysis is pretty awful. My mum's friend from Uni (who lives in the US) is on dialysis and it is almost literally a drain physically and psychologically.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,181
    edited September 2018
    I don't quite understand why people think that is such a fantastic idea. Seriously, as much as I totally understand people hating the Tory government and desperate to defeat them I don't see why that solution is appealing.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,181
    Anorak said:

    Jonathan said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Jonathan said:

    https://twitter.com/alexnunns/status/1044664825803083777

    Four or five years ago, this would have been three people.

    A changed party.

    It’s fascinating. Wondering if there’s precedent for this. Has a strand of political thought seemingly defeated and irrelevant risen back to life so quickly.
    The Islamic Revolution in Iran?

    An encouraging precedent.
    Free market laissez faire capitalism was old and discredited until Thatcher revived it.
    John Travolta's career trajectory.

    Megastardom --> butt of jokes --> megastardom

    He owes Quentin T a lot. I mean, picking him up after three Look Who's Talking films*?? Brave call.

    * The third film holds a perfect 0% on Rotten Tomatoes.
    I never even knew there was a third one!

    And much love to Justin
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,181

    Labour MPs 2018. Openly talking about a General Strike to try and overturn a democratically elected government.

    Well, the public have had the gall not only to vote for Brexit (once at least) but to make the Tories the most popular party in the country three times in a row, and even now let them be level pegging in the polling, so democracy might be losing its appeal?
  • kle4 said:

    I don't quite understand why people think that is such a fantastic idea. Seriously, as much as I totally understand people hating the Tory government and desperate to defeat them I don't see what that solution is appealing.
    Even on its own anti-democratic level I doubt it would work. A General Strike would surely send 1000s of marginal voters back into the arms of the Tories?

  • justin124 said:

    I hope you will allow me to share something personal. In the last few days I have received unwelcome news regarding the health of a brother about to reach 61 - three years younger than myself. He has inherited Polycystic Kidney Disease - rather rampant on my mother's side of the family - as have my two other brothers. My sister and I are forunate in not being affected. Whilst three siblings have been diagnosed with this condition , my brother alone has suffered renal failure to date.He was overjoyed when his wife indicated her willingness to be a Living Donor back in 2007 - but no transplant operation could occur until his kidney function had declined to a low critical level. That finally took place in late June this year , but whilst the operation was a technical success it has sadly now become clear that the new kidney has been rejected. My brother will now have to rely on Dialysis - and this news has to be a heavy psychological and emotional blow to him - and indeed to his wife.
    I have given the matter some thought - and am to see my GP on October 10th to discuss the possibility of my becoming a Living Donor too. I will insist, however, that my brother and the rest of my family have no knowledge of this unless - and until - the issue reaches an advanced stage. Nothing could be more cruel than to raise his hopes - only to have them so cruelly dashed again.

    May you find the strength in your real concerns and I am sure the whole PB community sends it best wishes to you and all your family
    Yes, well said.
  • kle4 said:

    I don't quite understand why people think that is such a fantastic idea. Seriously, as much as I totally understand people hating the Tory government and desperate to defeat them I don't see what that solution is appealing.
    Even on its own anti-democratic level I doubt it would work. A General Strike would surely send 1000s of marginal voters back into the arms of the Tories?

    Power to the People! Up the TPF! :lol:
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    justin124 said:

    I hope you will allow me to share something personal. In the last few days I have received unwelcome news regarding the health of a brother about to reach 61 - three years younger than myself. He has inherited Polycystic Kidney Disease - rather rampant on my mother's side of the family - as have my two other brothers. My sister and I are forunate in not being affected. Whilst three siblings have been diagnosed with this condition , my brother alone has suffered renal failure to date.He was overjoyed when his wife indicated her willingness to be a Living Donor back in 2007 - but no transplant operation could occur until his kidney function had declined to a low critical level. That finally took place in late June this year , but whilst the operation was a technical success it has sadly now become clear that the new kidney has been rejected. My brother will now have to rely on Dialysis - and this news has to be a heavy psychological and emotional blow to him - and indeed to his wife.
    I have given the matter some thought - and am to see my GP on October 10th to discuss the possibility of my becoming a Living Donor too. I will insist, however, that my brother and the rest of my family have no knowledge of this unless - and until - the issue reaches an advanced stage. Nothing could be more cruel than to raise his hopes - only to have them so cruelly dashed again.

    I feel for you, your brother and his wife. The emotion involved in a rejected donation from or to a family member can be intense.

    I gave a donation to my brother, only stem cells, which was rejected. I lost him. We spent several days and hours before the donation and implant discussing the effects of possible outcomes.

    I admire your love compassion and unselfless outlook and wish you all all the best in the future. Look after your spirits and souls as well as your health.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    kle4 said:

    Anorak said:

    Jonathan said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Jonathan said:

    https://twitter.com/alexnunns/status/1044664825803083777

    Four or five years ago, this would have been three people.

    A changed party.

    It’s fascinating. Wondering if there’s precedent for this. Has a strand of political thought seemingly defeated and irrelevant risen back to life so quickly.
    The Islamic Revolution in Iran?

    An encouraging precedent.
    Free market laissez faire capitalism was old and discredited until Thatcher revived it.
    John Travolta's career trajectory.

    Megastardom --> butt of jokes --> megastardom

    He owes Quentin T a lot. I mean, picking him up after three Look Who's Talking films*?? Brave call.

    * The third film holds a perfect 0% on Rotten Tomatoes.
    I never even knew there was a third one!

    And much love to Justin
    Even the trailer is bad!
  • John McD will be furious with Laura Smith MP. He has spent the last few days trying to appear like a reasonable bank manager, and then one of his MPs goes off and says lets have a General Strike and bring down a democratically elected government.

  • Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Good grief we’re having a snap election.

    More a snap erection, that is, an unexpected cock-up.
    Time for a stiff one.
    That's a hard one to keep up with...
    You came close, keep your pecker up.
    You see men, it's not just about picking the right words...
    Come again?
    I've got to hand it to you, you're on form tonight!
    You deserve a standing ovation.
    Standing ovulation?
  • nunuone said:

    This isn't getting enough attention (or any at all).

    https://twitter.com/BethanyAllenEbr/status/1044661687809449984

    Yebbut the Chinese aren't Israeli, you see!
  • Laura Smith news may just be too late for a Daily Mail front page.

  • kle4 said:

    I don't quite understand why people think that is such a fantastic idea. Seriously, as much as I totally understand people hating the Tory government and desperate to defeat them I don't see why that solution is appealing.
    It went well for the miners !!!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,181

    John McD will be furious with Laura Smith MP. He has spent the last few days trying to appear like a reasonable bank manager, and then one of his MPs goes off and says lets have a General Strike and bring down a democratically elected government.

    And? Much like Brexit policy it's about saying different things at different times to different people (ie politics). He'll probably laugh off the suggestion that is Labour policy if he is asked about it.
  • kle4 said:

    I don't quite understand why people think that is such a fantastic idea. Seriously, as much as I totally understand people hating the Tory government and desperate to defeat them I don't see why that solution is appealing.
    Is that the deadly duo of Burgon and Wingnut Williamson next to her.... there's a clue there then re her chosen companions...
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    Labour MPs 2018. Openly talking about a General Strike to try and overturn a democratically elected government.

    You must be mistaken. All I ever hear from the Corbynites is democracy on this, democracy on that, why are you afraid of democracy...
  • Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    ydoethur said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Yes

    Jonathan said:

    Anazina said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Anazina said:

    Thornberry for leader with Starmer as shadchan would be my pick.

    I'll be really worried when people start singing the National Anthem all the time.

    Not because of jingoism, but because it's such a shite piece of music.
    I'll take the Welsh national anthem, with pleasure. Or the French one (can feel TSE plotting my death already). Even the Italian one (although I think most Italians prefer Aida). Not the British though, it's just dull.

    I do prefer the Argentine national anthem, and I can actually sing it. Or Advance Australia Fair although again I prefer Waltzing Matilda.
    I will admit that is a good singable anthem. Kazakhstan's has its good points as well (and no, I don't mean the theme tune from Borat).
    France is in a league of its own in terms of Nation anthems. Patriotic songs - Scotland all the way. Wales only features because they can all sing.

    The British National Anthem is rather awful, but I wouldn't at all be surprised if that was the point. Iron-fisted imperialism at something like its most benign.
    So people seem to love Anthems because they are stirring, overlooking lyrics that are vacuous in most part except where inspire class war or national hatred? I am referring to Scottish and French anthems. There is no doubting the stirring moment in Casablanca when the French drown out Watch on the Rhine. But that is in Second World War, France under occupation by Germany, for centuries up until Napoleon surrounded in 1871, the Germans have every right to sing watch on the Rhine. In those years Britain tended to side with the Germans against the French.
    Jerusalem isn’t an anthem, it is a hymn, but not written as a hymn, just written as highly personal and stylised verse, turned into a hymn by Parry many decades after Blake’s death. When you subtract from equation people singing it havnt a flipping clue what they are singing, what does that leave you with?
    Anyone familiar with the opening of Parry’s Cambridge symphony? Ten times as stirring, one hundred times more us, this island Nation, the cloud, the green landscape, the foaming waves against the windswept rock, it just needs the right words set to it.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    edited September 2018
    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    Anorak said:

    Jonathan said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Jonathan said:

    https://twitter.com/alexnunns/status/1044664825803083777

    Four or five years ago, this would have been three people.

    A changed party.

    It’s fascinating. Wondering if there’s precedent for this. Has a strand of political thought seemingly defeated and irrelevant risen back to life so quickly.
    The Islamic Revolution in Iran?

    An encouraging precedent.
    Free market laissez faire capitalism was old and discredited until Thatcher revived it.
    John Travolta's career trajectory.

    Megastardom --> butt of jokes --> megastardom

    He owes Quentin T a lot. I mean, picking him up after three Look Who's Talking films*?? Brave call.

    * The third film holds a perfect 0% on Rotten Tomatoes.
    I never even knew there was a third one!

    And much love to Justin
    Even the trailer is bad!
    It's up there with Pluto Nash and Gigli. And Battlefield Earth, but I forgive JT that one.

    All three of those stinkers scored more that Look Who's Talking Now.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,705
    Charles said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Charles said:

    Mortimer said:

    Anazina said:

    Mortimer said:

    Anazina said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Anazina said:

    Thornberry for leader with Starmer as shadchan would be my pick.

    Lady Throberry who looks down her nose on the great unwashed and Starmer who wants to overturn the vote's of 17m people and make them keep voting until they get it right.

    What can possibly go wrong...
    Not the England flags again! Some nutter who covers his house in England flags - what an absolute helmet he is.
    Sneer away; it won't win your lot votes....
    Here we go - PB’s most patronising poster in history pipes up. Would you (or your wife) like to live next to this bellend? No. So pipe down.
    I have no problem with flags - our neighbours could cover their house in EU flags if they like; it’s their house.

    They could, but I get annoyed with the Labour voter (because he is, I remember GE2017) in the small sleepy Hampshire village of Medstead 4 miles away from me who flies an EU flag from his house day in, day out.
    We have a Hampshire flag in London (alongside a City flag and a California bear)
    I went to Stourhead on Sunday, not for the first time but the first time sober and in daylight. If you've got that in Wiltshire why would you want to fly a Hants flag?
    Cos I grew up at our place in Hampshire. Less draughty than Stourhead but still quite nice.
    There's a whole back-story here that is passing me by.
  • Charles said:

    Mortimer said:

    Anazina said:

    Mortimer said:

    Anazina said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Anazina said:

    Thornberry for leader with Starmer as shadchan would be my pick.

    Lady Throberry who looks down her nose on the great unwashed and Starmer who wants to overturn the vote's of 17m people and make them keep voting until they get it right.

    What can possibly go wrong...
    Not the England flags again! Some nutter who covers his house in England flags - what an absolute helmet he is.
    Sneer away; it won't win your lot votes....
    Here we go - PB’s most patronising poster in history pipes up. Would you (or your wife) like to live next to this bellend? No. So pipe down.
    I have no problem with flags - our neighbours could cover their house in EU flags if they like; it’s their house.

    They could, but I get annoyed with the Labour voter (because he is, I remember GE2017) in the small sleepy Hampshire village of Medstead 4 miles away from me who flies an EU flag from his house day in, day out.
    We have a Hampshire flag in London (alongside a City flag and a California bear)
    Very sound.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787
    kle4 said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    stodge said:

    Just watched TM interviewed and she did her best Maybot. Looked very tired and tetchy

    I do not envy her job at all

    Edit : Just remembered I am not supposed to critise her - sorry

    Well, you've not lost your sense of humour to be fair.

    I'm a known critic of the Conservative Party and the Prime Minister but I wouldn't want her health and her sanity to suffer because of the job.

    Politics isn't one-dimensional - there were aspects of John McDonnell's speech I liked yesterday and both Starmer and Thornberry did well today. There's even a decent piece with Tom Watson in tonight's Evening Standard and Watson gets a reasonable mention from George Osborne in the Editorial.

    I also think Labour's contortions over Brexit aren't much different to those of the Conservatives.
    Today I was teaching about the Russian Empire and the contrasting (failed) approaches of Alexander II and Alexander III. The general consensus was that what it really showed was that by the late nineteenth century the job of a Tsar was impossible.

    I wonder if the job of a leader of a democratic country is going the same way. Of course, they have the advantage of not being selected solely on the basis of having emerged from the right vagina in the right order, but it still seems to be getting uncomfortably difficult for anyone not really quite extraordinary.
    Democracy is a system well suited to city-states. We all know it's not that suited to big states. There's quite a big influence of birth still.

    The leaders of the Democratic states may well arrive in office without understanding the system. I'm not sure that any of them ever do. Trump is a new feature in that he's chosen not to understand, not to pay attention, and not to talk very much sense either. To a limited degree though he's made his point, and made it well.

    The main issue with Democracy isn't the politicians - it's us. We are so very far from aware of the fine detail of the issues of the day.

    The Chinese are essentially running an oligarchy as far as I can make out. I think that's going to prove a better system in the long (and more populous) term.

    It might well be so, depressingly. If they avoid screwing up massively.
    The great advantage of democracy is that you can kick the bums out. The great disadvantage of democracy is that sometimes it's not a good idea to kick the bums out if they're only just starting to get to grips with really difficult problems.
  • rpjs said:

    kle4 said:

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    stodge said:

    Just watched TM interviewed and she did her best Maybot. Looked very tired and tetchy

    I do not envy her job at all

    Edit : Just remembered I am not supposed to critise her - sorry

    Well, you've not lost your sense of humour to be fair.

    I'm a known critic of the Conservative Party and the Prime Minister but I wouldn't want her health and her sanity to suffer because of the job.

    Politics isn't one-dimensional - there were aspects of John McDonnell's speech I liked yesterday and both Starmer and Thornberry did well today. There's even a decent piece with Tom Watson in tonight's Evening Standard and Watson gets a reasonable mention from George Osborne in the Editorial.

    I also think Labour's contortions over Brexit aren't much different to those of the Conservatives.
    Today I was teaching about the Russian Empire and the contrasting (failed) approaches of Alexander II and Alexander III. The general consensus was that what it really showed was that by the late nineteenth century the job of a Tsar was impossible.

    I wonder if the job of a leader of a democratic country is going the same way. Of course, they have the advantage of not being selected solely on the basis of having emerged from the right vagina in the right order, but it still seems to be getting uncomfortably difficult for anyone not really quite extraordinary.
    Democracy is a system well suited to city-states. We all know it's not that suited to big states. There's quite a big influence of birth still.

    The leaders of the Democratic states may well arrive in office without understanding the system. I'm not sure that any of them ever do. Trump is a new feature in that he's chosen not to understand, not to pay attention, and not to talk very much sense either. To a limited degree though he's made his point, and made it well.

    The main issue with Democracy isn't the politicians - it's us. We are so very far from aware of the fine detail of the issues of the day.

    The Chinese are essentially running an oligarchy as far as I can make out. I think that's going to prove a better system in the long (and more populous) term.

    It might well be so, depressingly. If they avoid screwing up massively.
    The great advantage of democracy is that you can kick the bums out. The great disadvantage of democracy is that sometimes it's not a good idea to kick the bums out if they're only just starting to get to grips with really difficult problems.
    The great advantage of democracy is that over time all governments become tired and old, even the greatest eventually become bums that need to be kicked out.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,628
    justin124 said:

    I hope you will allow me to share something personal. In the last few days I have received unwelcome news regarding the health of a brother about to reach 61 - three years younger than myself. He has inherited Polycystic Kidney Disease - rather rampant on my mother's side of the family - as have my two other brothers. My sister and I are forunate in not being affected. Whilst three siblings have been diagnosed with this condition , my brother alone has suffered renal failure to date.He was overjoyed when his wife indicated her willingness to be a Living Donor back in 2007 - but no transplant operation could occur until his kidney function had declined to a low critical level. That finally took place in late June this year , but whilst the operation was a technical success it has sadly now become clear that the new kidney has been rejected. My brother will now have to rely on Dialysis - and this news has to be a heavy psychological and emotional blow to him - and indeed to his wife.
    I have given the matter some thought - and am to see my GP on October 10th to discuss the possibility of my becoming a Living Donor too. I will insist, however, that my brother and the rest of my family have no knowledge of this unless - and until - the issue reaches an advanced stage. Nothing could be more cruel than to raise his hopes - only to have them so cruelly dashed again.

    My best wishes go with you. I lost my sister to kidney failure.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,127
    Jonathan said:

    justin124 said:

    I hope you will allow me to share something personal. In the last few days I have received unwelcome news regarding the health of a brother about to reach 61 - three years younger than myself. He has inherited Polycystic Kidney Disease - rather rampant on my mother's side of the family - as have my two other brothers. My sister and I are forunate in not being affected. Whilst three siblings have been diagnosed with this condition , my brother alone has suffered renal failure to date.He was overjoyed when his wife indicated her willingness to be a Living Donor back in 2007 - but no transplant operation could occur until his kidney function had declined to a low critical level. That finally took place in late June this year , but whilst the operation was a technical success it has sadly now become clear that the new kidney has been rejected. My brother will now have to rely on Dialysis - and this news has to be a heavy psychological and emotional blow to him - and indeed to his wife.
    I have given the matter some thought - and am to see my GP on October 10th to discuss the possibility of my becoming a Living Donor too. I will insist, however, that my brother and the rest of my family have no knowledge of this unless - and until - the issue reaches an advanced stage. Nothing could be more cruel than to raise his hopes - only to have them so cruelly dashed again.

    I am struck by your bravery and kindness. My prayers and best wishes are with you and yours.
    Agreed - all the best Justin, that is a very kind thing indeed.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,781
    edited September 2018

    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    ydoethur said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Yes

    Jonathan said:

    Anazina said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Anazina said:

    Thornberry for leader with Starmer as shadchan would be my pick.

    I'll be really worried when people start singing the National Anthem all the time.

    Not because of jingoism, but because it's such a shite piece of music.

    I will admit that is a good singable anthem. Kazakhstan's has its good points as well (and no, I don't mean the theme tune from Borat).
    France is in a league of its own in terms of Nation anthems. Patriotic songs - Scotland all the way. Wales only features because they can all sing.

    The British National Anthem is rather awful, but I wouldn't at all be surprised if that was the point. Iron-fisted imperialism at something like its most benign.
    So people seem to love Anthems because they are stirring, overlooking lyrics that are vacuous in most part except where inspire class war or national hatred? I am referring to Scottish and French anthems. There is no doubting the stirring moment in Casablanca when the French drown out Watch on the Rhine. But that is in Second World War, France under occupation by Germany, for centuries up until Napoleon surrounded in 1871, the Germans have every right to sing watch on the Rhine. In those years Britain tended to side with the Germans against the French.
    Jerusalem isn’t an anthem, it is a hymn, but not written as a hymn, just written as highly personal and stylised verse, turned into a hymn by Parry many decades after Blake’s death. When you subtract from equation people singing it havnt a flipping clue what they are singing, what does that leave you with?
    Anyone familiar with the opening of Parry’s Cambridge symphony? Ten times as stirring, one hundred times more us, this island Nation, the cloud, the green landscape, the foaming waves against the windswept rock, it just needs the right words set to it.

    Your quoting is all amiss (and I can't seem to fix), but no - the music, and particularly the music of the inspired human voice.
  • OK, so today I did the last *significant* bit of weekday operating National Rail service in England I need to add to my collection: Middlesbrough to Whitby!

    Service outbound was fine, arrived on time, and after checking out the steam train in the opposite platform (unfortunately, the connection times precluded getting the steam train to Pickering and back AND make the return to 'Boro in daylight), had a nice walk around the town, including the West Pier and up the hill to Pannet Park and the museum.

    But the return service, while arriving into Whitby on time, was cancelled, due to some track fault or other! So I had to get the X93 bus back to Middlesbrough!

    Anyway, the only branch line left in Wales is Pembroke Dock, which I hope to do in the next few days....
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    edited September 2018
    justin124 said:

    I hope you will allow me to share something personal. In the last few days I have received unwelcome news regarding the health of a brother about to reach 61 - three years younger than myself. He has inherited Polycystic Kidney Disease - rather rampant on my mother's side of the family - as have my two other brothers. My sister and I are forunate in not being affected. Whilst three siblings have been diagnosed with this condition , my brother alone has suffered renal failure to date.He was overjoyed when his wife indicated her willingness to be a Living Donor back in 2007 - but no transplant operation could occur until his kidney function had declined to a low critical level. That finally took place in late June this year , but whilst the operation was a technical success it has sadly now become clear that the new kidney has been rejected. My brother will now have to rely on Dialysis - and this news has to be a heavy psychological and emotional blow to him - and indeed to his wife.
    I have given the matter some thought - and am to see my GP on October 10th to discuss the possibility of my becoming a Living Donor too. I will insist, however, that my brother and the rest of my family have no knowledge of this unless - and until - the issue reaches an advanced stage. Nothing could be more cruel than to raise his hopes - only to have them so cruelly dashed again.

    Sorry to hear this. Hope things work out for you and your brother Justin. :)
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,537
    justin124 said:

    I hope you will allow me to share something personal. In the last few days I have received unwelcome news regarding the health of a brother about to reach 61 - three years younger than myself. He has inherited Polycystic Kidney Disease - rather rampant on my mother's side of the family - as have my two other brothers. My sister and I are forunate in not being affected. Whilst three siblings have been diagnosed with this condition , my brother alone has suffered renal failure to date.He was overjoyed when his wife indicated her willingness to be a Living Donor back in 2007 - but no transplant operation could occur until his kidney function had declined to a low critical level. That finally took place in late June this year , but whilst the operation was a technical success it has sadly now become clear that the new kidney has been rejected. My brother will now have to rely on Dialysis - and this news has to be a heavy psychological and emotional blow to him - and indeed to his wife.
    I have given the matter some thought - and am to see my GP on October 10th to discuss the possibility of my becoming a Living Donor too. I will insist, however, that my brother and the rest of my family have no knowledge of this unless - and until - the issue reaches an advanced stage. Nothing could be more cruel than to raise his hopes - only to have them so cruelly dashed again.

    You are very brave. Thank you for trusting us with it - we all wish you and your brother the very best.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293

    OK, so today I did the last *significant* bit of weekday operating National Rail service in England I need to add to my collection: Middlesbrough to Whitby!

    Service outbound was fine, arrived on time, and after checking out the steam train in the opposite platform (unfortunately, the connection times precluded getting the steam train to Pickering and back AND make the return to 'Boro in daylight), had a nice walk around the town, including the West Pier and up the hill to Pannet Park and the museum.

    But the return service, while arriving into Whitby on time, was cancelled, due to some track fault or other! So I had to get the X93 bus back to Middlesbrough!

    Anyway, the only branch line left in Wales is Pembroke Dock, which I hope to do in the next few days....

    Fascinating... :D
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited September 2018

    Charles said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Charles said:

    Mortimer said:

    Anazina said:

    Mortimer said:

    Anazina said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Anazina said:

    Thornberry for leader with Starmer as shadchan would be my pick.

    Lady Throberry who looks down her nose on the great unwashed and Starmer who wants to overturn the vote's of 17m people and make them keep voting until they get it right.

    What can possibly go wrong...
    Not the England flags again! Some nutter who covers his house in England flags - what an absolute helmet he is.
    Sneer away; it won't win your lot votes....
    Here we go - PB’s most patronising poster in history pipes up. Would you (or your wife) like to live next to this bellend? No. So pipe down.
    I have no problem with flags - our neighbours could cover their house in EU flags if they like; it’s their house.

    They could, but I get annoyed with the Labour voter (because he is, I remember GE2017) in the small sleepy Hampshire village of Medstead 4 miles away from me who flies an EU flag from his house day in, day out.
    We have a Hampshire flag in London (alongside a City flag and a California bear)
    I went to Stourhead on Sunday, not for the first time but the first time sober and in daylight. If you've got that in Wiltshire why would you want to fly a Hants flag?
    Cos I grew up at our place in Hampshire. Less draughty than Stourhead but still quite nice.
    There's a whole back-story here that is passing me by.
    My family has lived in Wiltshire and Kent for a long time but my parents controversially selected Hampshire instead

    (Google stourhead)
This discussion has been closed.