politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » While the nation faces huge and historic issues over Brexit La

Why interrupt your opponents tearing themselves to pieces over an essentially second order matter when you can find third order topics of your own to tear yourself to pieces over?

The far-left’s priority has always been control of the Labour party, not defeating the Tories. In Liverpool it will be discussing what matters most to it.

When are the Leavers gathering for the amphibious assault on the continent?

Philip_Thompson said:

AlastairMeeks said:

When are the Leavers gathering for the amphibious assault on the continent?

It's a more sensible approach than agreeing to Barniers backstop. If they want to annex a part of our country that's an issue normally settled by war.

Brexiteers are the ones who have put part of our country at risk of annexation. Remember how concerns over the Irish border were dismissed?

Every now and then one tries to satirise the views of Leavers, and regularly they go so far beyond what one would previously have thought of as plausible as to make the exercise redundant.

And why is Warren still second favourite for the Democratic nomination when a large majority of her home state apparently doesn't want her to run ?

WhisperingOracle said:

I'm genuinely baffled, and curious, as to what May's next move is.

She has two options: walk or capitulate.

Knowing May I expect capitulation.

WhisperingOracle said:

I'm genuinely baffled, and curious, as to what May's next move is.

I think that she will stick to her guns whilst rolling back on the ambitions for the extent of the deal. I expect to see a series of unilateral decisions as I was urging some months ago combined with more action (which, lets face it, won't be hard) to mitigate the consequences of a no deal.

WhisperingOracle said:

I'm genuinely baffled, and curious, as to what May's next move is.

Agree to the UK staying in the single market and customs union effectively for the transition period until December 2020 and keep NI linked to the customs union as the backstop.

She can then save face and say Chequers will still be the basis for FTA negotiations in the transition period

Nigelb said:

And why is Warren still second favourite for the Democratic nomination when a large majority of her home state apparently doesn't want her to run ?

She leads in New Hampshire



https://www.suffolk.edu/news/76890.php#.WwVmrNxKjX5

Sandpit said:

At a minimum they look like
http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/cars-queue-at-the-border-crossing-between-france-and-switzerland-on-picture-id468328565

Not something that I think anyone would enjoy building in Ireland.

At a minimum it looks like the Hotel Arbez in La Cure where the Franco-Swiss border runs through the kitchen and two of the bedrooms.

WhisperingOracle said:

I'm genuinely baffled, and curious, as to what May's next move is.

Even if May has as next move, and lets assume it is a good idea, given her previous history (the bonkers General Election, and the obviously flawed Chequers deal) why would anyone want to risk her delivering it?

I don't dislike May, I don't think she's stupid, I don't think she has ill intent, but I sure as hell do not trust her political instincts.

I think May's time is up.

Cyclefree said:

The Labour Left’s strategy is absolutely the correct one, given what its aims are. First, take over the Labour party and ensure that it cannot easily be dislodged. Then, with the benefit of the Labour brand and the Tories committing hari kiri over Brexit take power in the country. Why waste time discussing the issue of the day until they have power. This gives them flexibility to oppose everything and only work out what to do when they have the keys to no. 10.

At which point Boris would take over as Leader of the Opposition and have the time of his life with the Tories and Leavers united behind him while Corbyn has to deal with Brexit and Labour divisions and the economy as PM without a plan beyond diluted Marxism and 'Brexit means Brexit' the Corbyn version

WhisperingOracle said:

I'm genuinely baffled, and curious, as to what May's next move is.

Wouldn't worry about it too much, she'll be going for a walk in the Welsh hills and will be back with an answer to save the Tory Party, again....

This is going to make me sound stupid but never mind. Despite the acres of internet space devoted to discussing Brexit and the NI issue I still don’t understand why it is that the Good Friday Agreement has effectively made it impossible for the UK, of which NI is a part, to leave the EU.

Is this a peculiar example of the law of unintended consequences? Or simply a result of May’s particular red lines? Or EU red lines? Or what?

In short, does the GFA legally require NI to stay within the SM and the CU? And, if not, what is the issue?

And if NI did have to stay within the SM wouldn’t that mean that all our banks could operate from there using the “passport”, not to mention others?

As I say I am probably missing something obvious - but marvellous as this forum is there is, dare I say it, often more heat than light shed on certain topics - so without tut tutting at my appalling stupidity and ignorance, if some kind soul could explain this to me or point me in the right direction, I’d be most grateful.

And now having had my very Irish breakfast of porridge and strong tea, I’d best go and do some work.

HYUFD said:

I expect if the prospect of No Deal Brexit looks likely by the end of October the current movement of Labour Remainers to the LDs to push for a second EU referendum and to oppose Brexit will only increase further

Isn’t Labour about to own EUref2, and surge ahead in the opinion polls? According to one people’s vote supporting newspaper today they are.

On topic, no I totally disagree with you Mike. The complete opposite is the truth! Conference week is the only week of the year awash with talk of unique values and differential polices, it’s the rest of the year all the parties ignore this. This is one of the reasons you can’t trust polls in conference season.
Don’t just disagree with me, let’s put it to the test. I think headlines out of this labour conference will be dominated too much about Europe, and not enough about nationalisation of railways for that extra control, cheaper land purchases, gig economy pay and conditions, limbo of migrant workers from EU, and other discussions that would draw a crowd around their soapbox.

I know now no one on this site agrees with me about how Politics actually works. But I am right.

NickPalmer said:

I see Grayling has come out swinging over Europe.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/20/may-in-fight-to-save-chequers-brexit-plan-after-salzburg-ambush

Good thing he doesn't have any Departmental issues to distract him, hmm?

You are getting rather nasty. Grayling is a prat but he has a right to speak out about this just like any other Minister.

Nigelb said:

Meantime, across the Atlantic, the Kavanaugh confirmation story gets more bizarre:

https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2018/09/the-kavanaugh-affair-careened-off-a-cliff-today/

Whelan has been involved in helping to advise Kavanaugh’s confirmation effort and is close friends with both Kavanaugh and Leonard Leo, the head of the Federalist Society who has been helping to spearhead the nomination. Kavanaugh and Whelan also worked together in the Bush administration. Kavanaugh and his allies have been privately discussing a defense that would not question whether an incident involving Ford happened, but instead would raise doubts that the attacker was Kavanaugh, according to a person familiar with the discussions.

If Kavanaugh himself is even remotely involved in this, he’s toast…

As we all spend time discussing the absurdities of UK and EU politics, it’s always worth the occasional look across the pond - where politics and media have both truly jumped the shark.

Corbyn opponents will be mad - no ramping up of any pressure on him in the run up to conference now. I doubt it would have been effective anyway.

I await labour switching to a referendum of some kind though. If it is on a theoretical hard deal they gain remainers and soft leavers so their support would grow.

HYUFD said:

I expect if the prospect of No Deal Brexit looks likely by the end of October the current movement of Labour Remainers to the LDs to push for a second EU referendum and to oppose Brexit will only increase further

Fortunately, the Lib Dems have a dynamic leader with great youth appeal who is perfectly placed to capitalise on this situation.

Oh, wait.

(For goodness' sake, guys, dump Cable, have an election between Swinson and Moran, and vote in Moran. It's. Not. That. Hard.)

fpt

DavidL said:

Sandpit said:

DavidL said:

Sandpit said:

CarlottaVance said:

Number 10:

ttps://twitter.com/RobbieGibb/status/1043014560356032515?s=20

Why is the NI border only a UK problem, not a joint one?

It’s not really a UK problem at all, we would be quite content to pretend it’s there and work with technology to combat smuggling - much as we do now.

It’s a massive problem for the EU though, because they want their external border to *look* like an international border, with fences and checkpoints.

We really should call their bluff on it now, make it clear that it’s no deal and that they’d better start digging holes for the fenceposts.

But don't they have an open border with Switzerland, for example, without any apparent problems? There are a series of technical issues to overcome and co-operation to put in place but the solution to this will not be a part of the UK effectively remaining a part of the SM when the rest leaves.

Roads between the EU and Switzerland all have manned checkpoints.

At a minimum they look like
http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/cars-queue-at-the-border-crossing-between-france-and-switzerland-on-picture-id468328565

Not something that I think anyone would enjoy building in Ireland.

One of the images I found was this: https://c7.alamy.com/comp/KWHABB/at-german-swiss-border-KWHABB.jpg

I think we could live with that.

=> this in fairly sharp order.

NickPalmer said:

I see Grayling has come out swinging over Europe.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/20/may-in-fight-to-save-chequers-brexit-plan-after-salzburg-ambush

Good thing he doesn't have any Departmental issues to distract him, hmm?

As the EU response was inevitable but the tone was harsher the gov response will also be inevitable in trying to match that tone. I hope we don't get people pretending affront at the UK playing to the crowd in that- any further deal, softer or harder, will need the gov to persuade people to back it, and that would surely require an element of being seen to show some fight. If they roll over later they need the cover of seeming to have not done so earlier.

NickPalmer said:

SquareRoot said:

NickPalmer said:

I see Grayling has come out swinging over Europe.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/20/may-in-fight-to-save-chequers-brexit-plan-after-salzburg-ambush

Good thing he doesn't have any Departmental issues to distract him, hmm?

You are getting rather nasty. Grayling is a prat but he has a right to speak out about this just like any other Minister.

Of course he does. But May would be more effectively defended by a Minister who hasn't had a very recent embarrassment. Everyone else seems to be maintaining a thoughtful silence.

Grayling probably figures a full-throated defence of May helps his survival prospects.

SquareRoot said:

NickPalmer said:

I see Grayling has come out swinging over Europe.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/20/may-in-fight-to-save-chequers-brexit-plan-after-salzburg-ambush

Good thing he doesn't have any Departmental issues to distract him, hmm?

You are getting rather nasty. Grayling is a prat but he has a right to speak out about this just like any other Minister.

You mean the man who made life miserable for Thameslink and Northern Rail users this summer who now tries to deny anything.

Paul Goodman take:

https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2018/09/around-the-black-cloud-of-saltzburg-one-can-glimpse-a-silver-lining.html

TOPPING said:

fpt

kle4 said:

Not really since it essentially says while the EU has clear red lines how dare we have red lines well. It is surely the point of a negotiation to test how red each other's red lines are. May definitely miscalculated how red the EUs was, but that doesn't mean they are angels by comparison if they miscalculated how red ours are - And the reported bafflement at our position on Ireland lends that some credence.

We will now see if May as bluffing and thus if the EU called it correctly. I suspect they are closer to doing so, but it's still a gamble.

We're the ones that wanted to leave. They are going to continue as is.

Probably so. What has that to do with it being unreasonable of us to test their red lines in a negotiation but reasonable for them to test ours? The hypocrisy of some in pretending it's unreasonable for us to negotiate was my point. Both are reasonable to do, and the EU are not budging. That might mean no deal, bad for everyone, if we politically are unable to budge. But it is their right to prefer no deal to budging on a red line of course.

Our inept government played it badly, that's not disputed here, but I object to implication sometimes expressed that testing the red lines is only ok in one direction

Cyclefree said:

SouthamObserver said:

HYUFD said:

Cyclefree said:

The Labour Left’s strategy is absolutely the correct one, given what its aims are. First, take over the Labour party and ensure that it cannot easily be dislodged. Then, with the benefit of the Labour brand and the Tories committing hari kiri over Brexit take power in the country. Why waste time discussing the issue of the day until they have power. This gives them flexibility to oppose everything and only work out what to do when they have the keys to no. 10.

At which point Boris would take over as Leader of the Opposition and have the time of his life with the Tories and Leavers united behind him while Corbyn has to deal with Brexit and Labour divisions and the economy as PM without a plan beyond diluted Marxism and 'Brexit means Brexit' the Corbyn version

Corbyn would deal with Brexit by blaming the Tories for the mess and allowing Keir Starmer to do a deal with the EU27 that looks very like Norway. He’ld leave the economy to McDonnell, who would institute a series of measures that look less like Marxism than social democracy plus. Corbyn would focus on foreign and defence policy - and that’s where the immense damage would be done. As for Johnson, if Corbyn is PM it would probably mean he has lost his seat.

Norway is in the Single Market, yes. So why would Corbyn agree to that?

I don't see why he wouldnt. He's more flexible than he used to be and would be happy with any arrangement that saw labour in power. Not even for himself exactly, but for s corbynite party.

kle4 said:

TOPPING said:

fpt

kle4 said:

Not really since it essentially says while the EU has clear red lines how dare we have red lines well. It is surely the point of a negotiation to test how red each other's red lines are. May definitely miscalculated how red the EUs was, but that doesn't mean they are angels by comparison if they miscalculated how red ours are - And the reported bafflement at our position on Ireland lends that some credence.

We will now see if May as bluffing and thus if the EU called it correctly. I suspect they are closer to doing so, but it's still a gamble.

We're the ones that wanted to leave. They are going to continue as is.

Probably so. What has that to do with it being unreasonable of us to test their red lines in a negotiation but reasonable for them to test ours? The hypocrisy of some in pretending it's unreasonable for us to negotiate was my point. Both are reasonable to do, and the EU are not budging. That might mean no deal, bad for everyone, if we politically are unable to budge. But it is their right to prefer no deal to budging on a red line of course.

Our inept government played it badly, that's not disputed here, but I object to implication sometimes expressed that testing the red lines is only ok in one direction

You are I think making a category error in calling the EU's rules "red lines". The EU is the EU. It is a club with rules and regs and we are leaving. We are then trying to "negotiate" re-entry on certain days for certain activities. But we won't be members any more. We are asking to come and have lunch in jeans and a t-shirt when the club rules say suit and tie. Is the wearing of a suit and tie a "red line"? Not really, it is the rules of the club.

LordOfReason said:

HYUFD said:

I expect if the prospect of No Deal Brexit looks likely by the end of October the current movement of Labour Remainers to the LDs to push for a second EU referendum and to oppose Brexit will only increase further

Isn’t Labour about to own EUref2, and surge ahead in the opinion polls? According to one people’s vote supporting newspaper today they are.

On topic, no I totally disagree with you Mike. The complete opposite is the truth! Conference week is the only week of the year awash with talk of unique values and differential polices, it’s the rest of the year all the parties ignore this. This is one of the reasons you can’t trust polls in conference season.
Don’t just disagree with me, let’s put it to the test. I think headlines out of this labour conference will be dominated too much about Europe, and not enough about nationalisation of railways for that extra control, cheaper land purchases, gig economy pay and conditions, limbo of migrant workers from EU, and other discussions that would draw a crowd around their soapbox.

I know now no one on this site agrees with me about how Politics actually works. But I am right.

At most of would win back a few Remainers from the LDs at the cost of losing some Leavers to UKIP or the Tories

MarqueeMark said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Meanwhile, the creeping normalisation of the far right continues:

https://twitter.com/peterwalker99/status/1043026863763812352

Really isn't much difference between old BNP and new UKIP. But they will be fielding about 8 candidates at the General Election, so new UKIP going the same way.

One of few good things that can be said about Farage is that as UKIP leader he did a pretty good job of keeping the BNP-types away or quiet.

Sadly, as with Labour, the extremists are now in charge.

SouthamObserver said:

HYUFD said:

Cyclefree said:

The Labour Left’s strategy is absolutely the correct one, given what its aims are. First, take over the Labour party and ensure that it cannot easily be dislodged. Then, with the benefit of the Labour brand and the Tories committing hari kiri over Brexit take power in the country. Why waste time discussing the issue of the day until they have power. This gives them flexibility to oppose everything and only work out what to do when they have the keys to no. 10.

At which point Boris would take over as Leader of the Opposition and have the time of his life with the Tories and Leavers united behind him while Corbyn has to deal with Brexit and Labour divisions and the economy as PM without a plan beyond diluted Marxism and 'Brexit means Brexit' the Corbyn version

Corbyn would deal with Brexit by blaming the Tories for the mess and allowing Keir Starmer to do a deal with the EU27 that looks very like Norway. He’ld leave the economy to McDonnell, who would institute a series of measures that look less like Marxism than social democracy plus. Corbyn would focus on foreign and defence policy - and that’s where the immense damage would be done. As for Johnson, if Corbyn is PM it would probably mean he has lost his seat.

Corbyn would wreck the economy Brexit or no Brexit, if he caves to the EU he annoys Leavers, if he sticks to Brexit he will annoy Remainers.

Boris will hold Uxbridge easily on current polls if Corbyn becomes PM it will be in a hung parliament propped up by the LDs and SNP, unless Labour won a clear majority at the next general election Boris would hold Uxbridge even if Corbyn became PM

Sandpit said:

MarqueeMark said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Meanwhile, the creeping normalisation of the far right continues:

https://twitter.com/peterwalker99/status/1043026863763812352

Really isn't much difference between old BNP and new UKIP. But they will be fielding about 8 candidates at the General Election, so new UKIP going the same way.

One of few good things that can be said about Farage is that as UKIP leader he did a pretty good job of keeping the BNP-types away or quiet.

Sadly, as with Labour, the extremists are now in charge.

Just labour?

Mikes Political Radar is completely off IMO

A move to back a 2nd Referendum means all the blame is shifted to Labour and would be a disaster politically

Briefed by 'senior officials', perhaps?

https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/1043053122820689921

kle4 said:

TOPPING said:

kle4 said:

TOPPING said:

fpt

kle4 said:

Not really since it essentially says while the EU has clear red lines how dare we have red lines well. It is surely the point of a negotiation to test how red each other's red lines are. May definitely miscalculated how red the EUs was, but that doesn't mean they are angels by comparison if they miscalculated how red ours are - And the reported bafflement at our position on Ireland lends that some credence.

We will now see if May as bluffing and thus if the EU called it correctly. I suspect they are closer to doing so, but it's still a gamble.

We're the ones that wanted to leave. They are going to continue as is.

Probably so. What has that to do with it being unreasonable of us to test their red lines in a negotiation but reasonable for them to test ours? The hypocrisy of some in pretending it's unreasonable for us to negotiate was my point. Both are reasonable to do, and the EU are not budging. That might mean no deal, bad for everyone, if we politically are unable to budge. But it is their right to prefer no deal to budging on a red line of course.

Our inept government played it badly, that's not disputed here, but I object to implication sometimes expressed that testing the red lines is only ok in one direction

You are I think making a category error in calling the EU's rules "red lines". The EU is the EU. It is a club with rules and regs and we are leaving. We are then trying to "negotiate" re-entry on certain days for certain activities. But we won't be members any more. We are asking to come and have lunch in jeans and a t-shirt when the club rules say suit and tie. Is the wearing of a suit and tie a "red line"? Not really, it is the rules of the club.

No I'm not because As we know the EU loves and is capable of many fudge. More to the point it is not I but now they defenders who have called them red lines. Even more to the point it still doesn't make asking for exception in a negotiation unreasonable when they want us to put a border in our own country and that's apparently reasonable. It makes it unrealistic, not unreasonable.

Of course it's capable of a fudge. It is incorrect to call them red lines (whoever is calling them red lines) because they are the existing rules. As per my analogy previously. A club has any number of rules and regs. Adhering to those rules and regs is simply what members do. They are unlikely to let one ex-member subvert the entire rules-based system while everyone else adheres to it.

OchEye said:

Philip_Thompson said:

not_on_fire said:

Philip_Thompson said:

AlastairMeeks said:

When are the Leavers gathering for the amphibious assault on the continent?

It's a more sensible approach than agreeing to Barniers backstop. If they want to annex a part of our country that's an issue normally settled by war.

Brexiteers are the ones who have put part of our country at risk of annexation. Remember how concerns over the Irish border were dismissed?

As they should be. It's a load of nonsense being blown up to try and extort us. As would be shown if we leave without a backstop, the problem will sort itself out.

Ireland will become one under Dublin. TMay or her successor will have to trot along to HMQ for the weekly meeting to explain how a part of the UK has been lost. Suspect it won't be a pleasant experience...

It's the EU that is losing a part of itself, not the UK. Not that they seem too bothered.

SquareRoot said:

NickPalmer said:

I see Grayling has come out swinging over Europe.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/20/may-in-fight-to-save-chequers-brexit-plan-after-salzburg-ambush

Good thing he doesn't have any Departmental issues to distract him, hmm?

You are getting rather nasty. Grayling is a prat...

Wouldn't a grayling look more like a sprat ?

Mr Mason, a little ray of sunshine:

https://twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/1043055667869884416

edmundintokyo said:

Philip_Thompson said:

AlastairMeeks said:

When are the Leavers gathering for the amphibious assault on the continent?

It's a more sensible approach than agreeing to Barniers backstop. If they want to annex a part of our country that's an issue normally settled by war.

Fastest escalation from a trade deal to be settled over a cup of coffee since

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3BO6GP9NMY

The stretched twig of peace has melted...
I miss those guys.

Bromptonaut said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Bromptonaut said:

Philip_Thompson said:

AlastairMeeks said:

When are the Leavers gathering for the amphibious assault on the continent?

It's a more sensible approach than agreeing to Barniers backstop. If they want to annex a part of our country that's an issue normally settled by war.

I was in Derry last week talking to some senior local and provincial government officials. No one seemed remotely in fear of being annexed.

Hyperbolic to say the least.

Did you visit Londonderry though? Those who say Derry may be less concerned than those that use the name of Londonderry.

I am crushed. Chortle.

Derry Londonderry, surely ?
Which can be sung to the tune of Gary Indiana from The Music Man...

bigjohnowls said:

Mikes Political Radar is completely off IMO

A move to back a 2nd Referendum means all the blame is shifted to Labour and would be a disaster politically

I was sceptical also but Yougov polling reckons it could get Labour an extra 1.5m votes.

Now that's all hypothetical but I think that's the most compelling evidence so far that Labour backing referendum II would be a net vote winner.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-labour-back-second-referendum-gain-power-general-election-polls-a8547676.html

If even Kevin Maguire thinks this....

https://twitter.com/Kevin_Maguire/status/1043056815972528128

SquareRoot said:

NickPalmer said:

SquareRoot said:

NickPalmer said:

I see Grayling has come out swinging over Europe.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/20/may-in-fight-to-save-chequers-brexit-plan-after-salzburg-ambush

Good thing he doesn't have any Departmental issues to distract him, hmm?

You are getting rather nasty. Grayling is a prat but he has a right to speak out about this just like any other Minister.

Of course he does. But May would be more effectively defended by a Minister who hasn't had a very recent embarrassment. Everyone else seems to be maintaining a thoughtful silence.

So why didn't you say that rather than just having a pop at him.?

No excuse needed to have a pop at Grayling.
It's practically a civic duty.

edmundintokyo said:

Philip_Thompson said:

AlastairMeeks said:

When are the Leavers gathering for the amphibious assault on the continent?

It's a more sensible approach than agreeing to Barniers backstop. If they want to annex a part of our country that's an issue normally settled by war.

Fastest escalation from a trade deal to be settled over a cup of coffee since

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3BO6GP9NMY

Looks like you hit Mr Thompson's nail on it's head. War it is!

https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1043059468253241349

big statement ?

MikeSmithson said:

SquareRoot said:

NickPalmer said:

I see Grayling has come out swinging over Europe.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/20/may-in-fight-to-save-chequers-brexit-plan-after-salzburg-ambush

Good thing he doesn't have any Departmental issues to distract him, hmm?

You are getting rather nasty. Grayling is a prat but he has a right to speak out about this just like any other Minister.

You mean the man who made life miserable for Thameslink and Northern Rail users this summer who now tries to deny anything.

To be fair, the root cause of the problems predate his time at the DfT. However he does share some direct blame for decisions made, and his reaction to the problems when they started was awful.

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1043059468253241349

Perhaps it’s lost in translation and May is going to make a fashion statement by wearing a Vivienne Westwood chainmail suit.

TheJezziah said:

rkrkrk said:

bigjohnowls said:

Mikes Political Radar is completely off IMO

A move to back a 2nd Referendum means all the blame is shifted to Labour and would be a disaster politically

I was sceptical also but Yougov polling reckons it could get Labour an extra 1.5m votes.

Now that's all hypothetical but I think that's the most compelling evidence so far that Labour backing referendum II would be a net vote winner.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-labour-back-second-referendum-gain-power-general-election-polls-a8547676.html

From a purely tactical POV I wonder if a slow drift towards remain as things get worse and the Tories continue to struggle (assuming they do) would be for the best. Those who voted leave could see that we gave it a chance but the Tories have messed it up and part of the clean up process will be remain or maybe Norway.

I'm not sure "our PM" being "bullied by Brussels" will help any drift to Remain. The politically not-very-aware in the middle ground who gave us Brexit might have sensed it isn't going well - but are much more likely today to be thinking "better off out, regardless" than they were yesterday.

Brussels twirling its moustache and swirling its cape is never going to get the crowd on your side in Brexit-pantoland.