politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Daily Mail’s change of tone Brexit should help Mrs May sel
politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Daily Mail’s change of tone Brexit should help Mrs May sell her Brexit deal
Something feels different about the headlines in today's Daily Mail pic.twitter.com/LCFgwnOrlu
Comments
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FPT, but more appropriate to this one:
This is surprisingly interesting:
TRIGGER WARNING: Leavers of a sensitive disposition should go to their designated Safe Space rather than click on the link.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/14/clegg-leads-pro-remain-grandees-on-diplomatic-mission-to-stop-brexit
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Be interesting to see what it does to sales.
FPT: Mr. Eagles, go and check that map. You've started new threads twice today, right after I posted it.
Honestly. Anyone would think you were doing it on purpose.0 -
Sales of the Mail will drop sharply.Morris_Dancer said:Be interesting to see what it does to sales.
FPT: Mr. Eagles, go and check that map. You've started new threads twice today, right after I posted it.
Honestly. Anyone would think you were doing it on purpose.
That's a safe prediction, they've been dropping sharply for some time and there's no reason to expect the change of political direction to change this trend.0 -
Mr. Meeks, that's true, however, rate of decline could still be affected.0
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Thank you.Morris_Dancer said:Be interesting to see what it does to sales.
FPT: Mr. Eagles, go and check that map. You've started new threads twice today, right after I posted it.
Honestly. Anyone would think you were doing it on purpose.
See that’s what a truly great general looks like.0 -
that line ups worth about 10% to LeaveRichard_Nabavi said:FPT, but more appropriate to this one:
This is surprisingly interesting:
TRIGGER WARNING: Leavers of a sensitive disposition should go to their designated Safe Space rather than click on the link.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/14/clegg-leads-pro-remain-grandees-on-diplomatic-mission-to-stop-brexit
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Just looked down the right hand side of their web page.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Meeks, that's true, however, rate of decline could still be affected.
A lot fewer pics of female 'celebs' in bikinis too.0 -
As with most papers. I doubt very much if the editorial line has much impact on sales either way.AlastairMeeks said:
Sales of the Mail will drop sharply.Morris_Dancer said:Be interesting to see what it does to sales.
FPT: Mr. Eagles, go and check that map. You've started new threads twice today, right after I posted it.
Honestly. Anyone would think you were doing it on purpose.
That's a safe prediction, they've been dropping sharply for some time and there's no reason to expect the change of political direction to change this trend.0 -
I have flagged this up over the last few days and doubt it will effect circulation or the on line paper we receive. The daily version has moved pro TM and the sunday version lessened it's remain stance
As I said earlier my good wife has joined the conservative party today for the first time at 79
So she has neutralised one of the entryist Ukippers0 -
I’ve had my surgery and I’m still alive... So fantastic news!0
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Mr. Gate, huzzah!0
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Will be good to get some young blood into the party...Big_G_NorthWales said:I have flagged this up over the last few days and doubt it will effect circulation or the on line paper we receive. The daily version has moved pro TM and the sunday version lessened it's remain stance
As I said earlier my good wife has joined the conservative party today for the first time at 79
So she has neutralised one of the entryist Ukippers
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Well done and great for you to be over your operation but take time to recover.Gallowgate said:I’ve had my surgery and I’m still alive... So fantastic news!
When I had my bi-lateral hernia surgery last November I was back in hospital 10 days later with suspected problems which turned out to be fatigue due to impatience to be up and running (and posting on here) too soon0 -
Since my dad died, my mum has cut down buying the Mail from seven days a week to Saturday and Sunday only. My dad used to love having it around to read it all day when he was ill. My mum, however, has decided she would just get it at the weekends for the bigger crosswords. I'm sure part of her decision was related to the tone of the paper which she definitely resents.felix said:
As with most papers. I doubt very much if the editorial line has much impact on sales either way.AlastairMeeks said:
Sales of the Mail will drop sharply.Morris_Dancer said:Be interesting to see what it does to sales.
FPT: Mr. Eagles, go and check that map. You've started new threads twice today, right after I posted it.
Honestly. Anyone would think you were doing it on purpose.
That's a safe prediction, they've been dropping sharply for some time and there's no reason to expect the change of political direction to change this trend.0 -
No - 20% - who do they think they areAlanbrooke said:
that line ups worth about 10% to LeaveRichard_Nabavi said:FPT, but more appropriate to this one:
This is surprisingly interesting:
TRIGGER WARNING: Leavers of a sensitive disposition should go to their designated Safe Space rather than click on the link.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/14/clegg-leads-pro-remain-grandees-on-diplomatic-mission-to-stop-brexit0 -
Every little helps and she has had a personal message from Brendon.RobD said:
Will be good to get some young blood into the party...Big_G_NorthWales said:I have flagged this up over the last few days and doubt it will effect circulation or the on line paper we receive. The daily version has moved pro TM and the sunday version lessened it's remain stance
As I said earlier my good wife has joined the conservative party today for the first time at 79
So she has neutralised one of the entryist Ukippers
She has joined due to her revulsion at Corbyn and those around him0 -
They are patriots trying to stop the Brexit traitors that are the ERG.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No - 20% - who do they think they areAlanbrooke said:
that line ups worth about 10% to LeaveRichard_Nabavi said:FPT, but more appropriate to this one:
This is surprisingly interesting:
TRIGGER WARNING: Leavers of a sensitive disposition should go to their designated Safe Space rather than click on the link.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/14/clegg-leads-pro-remain-grandees-on-diplomatic-mission-to-stop-brexit0 -
The most important bit in that piece is the line about Barnier seeing his job as negotiating the withdrawal agreement rather than anything else. Once out, I strongly suspect there will be little appetite within the EU for negotiating any sort of long-term FTA with Britain. Certainly not as a priority. So we either stay in the transition stage indefinitely or end up in a No-Deal scenario two years later.Alanbrooke said:
that line ups worth about 10% to LeaveRichard_Nabavi said:FPT, but more appropriate to this one:
This is surprisingly interesting:
TRIGGER WARNING: Leavers of a sensitive disposition should go to their designated Safe Space rather than click on the link.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/14/clegg-leads-pro-remain-grandees-on-diplomatic-mission-to-stop-brexit0 -
How do you know John Major isn’t acting as a back-channel for May?Big_G_NorthWales said:
No - 20% - who do they think they areAlanbrooke said:
that line ups worth about 10% to LeaveRichard_Nabavi said:FPT, but more appropriate to this one:
This is surprisingly interesting:
TRIGGER WARNING: Leavers of a sensitive disposition should go to their designated Safe Space rather than click on the link.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/14/clegg-leads-pro-remain-grandees-on-diplomatic-mission-to-stop-brexit0 -
Good news - wishing you a speedy recovery Mr GGallowgate said:I’ve had my surgery and I’m still alive... So fantastic news!
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To be honest Alastair she would be better paying £9.99 per month and get the actual paper, including sundays, downloaded with all the daily puzzles. My wife loves themAlastairMeeks said:
Since my dad died, my mum has cut down buying the Mail from seven days a week to Saturday and Sunday only. My dad used to love having it around to read it all day when he was ill. My mum, however, has decided she would just get it at the weekends for the bigger crosswords. I'm sure part of her decision was related to the tone of the paper which she definitely resents.felix said:
As with most papers. I doubt very much if the editorial line has much impact on sales either way.AlastairMeeks said:
Sales of the Mail will drop sharply.Morris_Dancer said:Be interesting to see what it does to sales.
FPT: Mr. Eagles, go and check that map. You've started new threads twice today, right after I posted it.
Honestly. Anyone would think you were doing it on purpose.
That's a safe prediction, they've been dropping sharply for some time and there's no reason to expect the change of political direction to change this trend.0 -
they've put Blair in charge of immigrationBig_G_NorthWales said:
No - 20% - who do they think they areAlanbrooke said:
that line ups worth about 10% to LeaveRichard_Nabavi said:FPT, but more appropriate to this one:
This is surprisingly interesting:
TRIGGER WARNING: Leavers of a sensitive disposition should go to their designated Safe Space rather than click on the link.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/14/clegg-leads-pro-remain-grandees-on-diplomatic-mission-to-stop-brexit
it's like entrusting Boris with the keys to a chastity belt0 -
Well done! Enjoy the rest and take time to recover properly.Gallowgate said:I’ve had my surgery and I’m still alive... So fantastic news!
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Somewhere in the middle is the democratic positionTheScreamingEagles said:
They are patriots trying to stop the Brexit traitors that are the ERG.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No - 20% - who do they think they areAlanbrooke said:
that line ups worth about 10% to LeaveRichard_Nabavi said:FPT, but more appropriate to this one:
This is surprisingly interesting:
TRIGGER WARNING: Leavers of a sensitive disposition should go to their designated Safe Space rather than click on the link.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/14/clegg-leads-pro-remain-grandees-on-diplomatic-mission-to-stop-brexit0 -
I’ll be in hospital for up to 10 days so plenty of free time to argue about Brexit, pizza toppings and Palestine and Israel.
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Not sure what you are suggesting there William !!!!!williamglenn said:
How do you know John Major isn’t acting as a back-channel for May?Big_G_NorthWales said:
No - 20% - who do they think they areAlanbrooke said:
that line ups worth about 10% to LeaveRichard_Nabavi said:FPT, but more appropriate to this one:
This is surprisingly interesting:
TRIGGER WARNING: Leavers of a sensitive disposition should go to their designated Safe Space rather than click on the link.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/14/clegg-leads-pro-remain-grandees-on-diplomatic-mission-to-stop-brexit0 -
Mr. Gate, one hopes the nurses give you all due attention.0
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This is the bit I never get with remain, theres hardly a stream of nations begging us to come back. If this had been France whuch had voted leave the commission would be falling over itself to get a remain vote.Cyclefree said:
The most important bit in that piece is the line about Barnier seeing his job as negotiating the withdrawal agreement rather than anything else. Once out, I strongly suspect there will be little appetite within the EU for negotiating any sort of long-term FTA with Britain. Certainly not as a priority. So we either stay in the transition stage indefinitely or end up in a No-Deal scenario two years later.Alanbrooke said:
that line ups worth about 10% to LeaveRichard_Nabavi said:FPT, but more appropriate to this one:
This is surprisingly interesting:
TRIGGER WARNING: Leavers of a sensitive disposition should go to their designated Safe Space rather than click on the link.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/14/clegg-leads-pro-remain-grandees-on-diplomatic-mission-to-stop-brexit
That sort of sums up our much vaunted "influence" in Europe tp me .0 -
Good for you but still take your time even after you have left hospitalGallowgate said:I’ll be in hospital for up to 10 days so plenty of free time to argue about Brexit, pizza toppings and Palestine and Israel.
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She knows that but my mum is a very late adopter to the online world. She's only just got her own facebook account and she refuses point blank to do online banking.Big_G_NorthWales said:
To be honest Alastair she would be better paying £9.99 per month and get the actual paper, including sundays, downloaded with all the daily puzzles. My wife loves themAlastairMeeks said:
Since my dad died, my mum has cut down buying the Mail from seven days a week to Saturday and Sunday only. My dad used to love having it around to read it all day when he was ill. My mum, however, has decided she would just get it at the weekends for the bigger crosswords. I'm sure part of her decision was related to the tone of the paper which she definitely resents.felix said:
As with most papers. I doubt very much if the editorial line has much impact on sales either way.AlastairMeeks said:
Sales of the Mail will drop sharply.Morris_Dancer said:Be interesting to see what it does to sales.
FPT: Mr. Eagles, go and check that map. You've started new threads twice today, right after I posted it.
Honestly. Anyone would think you were doing it on purpose.
That's a safe prediction, they've been dropping sharply for some time and there's no reason to expect the change of political direction to change this trend.0 -
Regarding House of Fraser
Are those owed refunds of goods by the company within their rights, morally, to walk into a store and simply take them?
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Glad it went well. I hope you have a restful convalescence.Gallowgate said:I’ll be in hospital for up to 10 days so plenty of free time to argue about Brexit, pizza toppings and Palestine and Israel.
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The new editor is clearly sticking up for his core constituency – the middle classes. A house price crash suits them not.0
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Like The 13th Duke Of Wybourne from the Fast ShowAlanbrooke said:
they've put Blair in charge of immigrationBig_G_NorthWales said:
No - 20% - who do they think they areAlanbrooke said:
that line ups worth about 10% to LeaveRichard_Nabavi said:FPT, but more appropriate to this one:
This is surprisingly interesting:
TRIGGER WARNING: Leavers of a sensitive disposition should go to their designated Safe Space rather than click on the link.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/14/clegg-leads-pro-remain-grandees-on-diplomatic-mission-to-stop-brexit
it's like entrusting Boris with the keys to a chastity belt0 -
My wife has her own facebook account and manages mail plus very well. You do not need to read the politics in it as otherwise it has lots of interesting contentAlastairMeeks said:
She knows that but my mum is a very late adopter to the online world. She's only just got her own facebook account and she refuses point blank to do online banking.Big_G_NorthWales said:
To be honest Alastair she would be better paying £9.99 per month and get the actual paper, including sundays, downloaded with all the daily puzzles. My wife loves themAlastairMeeks said:
Since my dad died, my mum has cut down buying the Mail from seven days a week to Saturday and Sunday only. My dad used to love having it around to read it all day when he was ill. My mum, however, has decided she would just get it at the weekends for the bigger crosswords. I'm sure part of her decision was related to the tone of the paper which she definitely resents.felix said:
As with most papers. I doubt very much if the editorial line has much impact on sales either way.AlastairMeeks said:
Sales of the Mail will drop sharply.Morris_Dancer said:Be interesting to see what it does to sales.
FPT: Mr. Eagles, go and check that map. You've started new threads twice today, right after I posted it.
Honestly. Anyone would think you were doing it on purpose.
That's a safe prediction, they've been dropping sharply for some time and there's no reason to expect the change of political direction to change this trend.0 -
Lol! I’m suggesting that maybe she approves of what they’re doing and is being kept informed.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not sure what you are suggesting there William !!!!!williamglenn said:
How do you know John Major isn’t acting as a back-channel for May?Big_G_NorthWales said:
No - 20% - who do they think they areAlanbrooke said:
that line ups worth about 10% to LeaveRichard_Nabavi said:FPT, but more appropriate to this one:
This is surprisingly interesting:
TRIGGER WARNING: Leavers of a sensitive disposition should go to their designated Safe Space rather than click on the link.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/14/clegg-leads-pro-remain-grandees-on-diplomatic-mission-to-stop-brexit0 -
Isnt Mike Ashley's plan with House of Fraser to merge it with Sports Direct and Debenhams, of which he has a 30% stakeAnazina said:Regarding House of Fraser
Are those owed refunds of goods by the company within their rights, morally, to walk into a store and simply take them?0 -
Unlike Archbishop Welby who must have enraged a lot of C of E members in the shiresAnazina said:The new editor is clearly sticking up for his core constituency – the middle classes. A house price crash suits them not.
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I know - I was teasing youwilliamglenn said:
Lol! I’m suggesting that maybe she approves of what they’re doing and is being kept informed.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not sure what you are suggesting there William !!!!!williamglenn said:
How do you know John Major isn’t acting as a back-channel for May?Big_G_NorthWales said:
No - 20% - who do they think they areAlanbrooke said:
that line ups worth about 10% to LeaveRichard_Nabavi said:FPT, but more appropriate to this one:
This is surprisingly interesting:
TRIGGER WARNING: Leavers of a sensitive disposition should go to their designated Safe Space rather than click on the link.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/14/clegg-leads-pro-remain-grandees-on-diplomatic-mission-to-stop-brexit0 -
Congratulations - best wishes for a speedy recovery (but as others have observed - give yourself time)Gallowgate said:I’ve had my surgery and I’m still alive... So fantastic news!
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Miss Vance, that sounds like a plan to try and lose all the voters.0
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Morality has nothing to do with the law. The law will not provide protection to anyone seeking to assert their 'moral' rights by walking into a store and taking something without paying for it.Anazina said:Regarding House of Fraser
Are those owed refunds of goods by the company within their rights, morally, to walk into a store and simply take them?
People who did not receive their goods are creditors of the old company and have to proceed accordingly.0 -
The USA Supreme Court nomination process has taken a dramatic twist.
It turns out the Republicans just happen to have a letter lying around signed by 65 female high school acquaintances of Kavanaugh saying he didn't seem like a rapists when he was in high school.
Amazing they had this letter ready and good to go.0 -
Del Quentin Wilber
✔
@DelWilber
!!! Prosecutor says that Manafort is cooperating with special counsel investigation !!!
4:24 PM - Sep 14, 20180 -
Hurrah.Gallowgate said:I’ll be in hospital for up to 10 days so plenty of free time to argue about Brexit, pizza toppings and Palestine and Israel.
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Consider whether the customer, who is owed their £29.99, is morally entitled to put themselves ahead of employees, the pension scheme, or supplies owed thousands (or millions)oxfordsimon said:
Morality has nothing to do with the law. The law will not provide protection to anyone seeking to assert their 'moral' rights by walking into a store and taking something without paying for it.Anazina said:Regarding House of Fraser
Are those owed refunds of goods by the company within their rights, morally, to walk into a store and simply take them?
People who did not receive their goods are creditors of the old company and have to proceed accordingly.0 -
Next they’ll be wanting to say Hannibal was the greatest military strategist in history.
https://twitter.com/daaronovitch/status/1040485861270405120?s=210 -
That was discussed earlier and when the actual deal is agreed with a fanfare, as it will be, by TM and the EU 27 reality meet the the politics and the 'probably' she said today may well be very different.CarlottaVance said:
Lisa Nandy said yesterday she was inclined to vote for the deal
And how she gets to a GE I have no idea0 -
A house price crash makes it easier to move up marker and/or a better area or even to London.Anazina said:The new editor is clearly sticking up for his core constituency – the middle classes. A house price crash suits them not.
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Mortgage lender will collapse, so very unlikely.No-one is going to lend 70 LTV if prices are down 35% y-o-yDavid_Evershed said:
A house price crash makes it easier to move up marker and/or a better area or even to London.Anazina said:The new editor is clearly sticking up for his core constituency – the middle classes. A house price crash suits them not.
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There's many a slip twixt cup & lip - but I do hope we get a reasonable deal and the JRMs and Gina Millers of this world can retreat into their well deserved obscurity and the footnotes of history. There are so many dangerous nutters on the world stage it will be one less problem if the UK and EU can reach a sensible accommodation.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That was discussed earlier and when the actual deal is agreed with a fanfare, as it will be, by TM and the EU 27 reality meet the the politics and the 'probably' she said today may well be very different.CarlottaVance said:
Lisa Nandy said yesterday she was inclined to vote for the deal
And how she gets to a GE I have no idea0 -
It doesn’t.David_Evershed said:
A house price crash makes it easier to move up marker and/or a better area or even to London.Anazina said:The new editor is clearly sticking up for his core constituency – the middle classes. A house price crash suits them not.
It’ll lead to lenders asking for 50% plus deposits as LTVs decreasing sharply.0 -
Much preferable to the alternative !Gallowgate said:I’ve had my surgery and I’m still alive... So fantastic news!
I wish you an entirely satisfactory recovery, at your own speed.0 -
Mueller prosecutor Andrew Weissmann did not immediately expand on what cooperation is required under the deal.... according to Politico.TheWhiteRabbit said:Del Quentin Wilber
✔
@DelWilber
!!! Prosecutor says that Manafort is cooperating with special counsel investigation !!!
4:24 PM - Sep 14, 2018
It will be a while before we know how significant it might be.0 -
Tick tock goes the clockNigelb said:
Mueller prosecutor Andrew Weissmann did not immediately expand on what cooperation is required under the deal.... according to Politico.TheWhiteRabbit said:Del Quentin Wilber
✔
@DelWilber
!!! Prosecutor says that Manafort is cooperating with special counsel investigation !!!
4:24 PM - Sep 14, 2018
It will be a while before we know how significant it might be.0 -
https://twitter.com/MichelBarnier/status/1040602360995823617
Why do they keep trying to slide in 'Trade Deal' things like 'GIs' when we're not allowed to talk about trade until we've left?0 -
ExactlyTheScreamingEagles said:
It doesn’t.David_Evershed said:
A house price crash makes it easier to move up marker and/or a better area or even to London.Anazina said:The new editor is clearly sticking up for his core constituency – the middle classes. A house price crash suits them not.
It’ll lead to lenders asking for 50% plus deposits as LTVs decreasing sharply.0 -
0
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0
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Interesting intervention from a darling of the left.
https://twitter.com/BootstrapCook/status/1040618442880176128 Although that is shortly to be ex-darling when the hate machine kicks into action.0 -
All of these plea bargains means that evidence is not being tested in court and the 'cooperation' being 'required' means that what emerges from that process is tainted.Nigelb said:
Mueller prosecutor Andrew Weissmann did not immediately expand on what cooperation is required under the deal.... according to Politico.TheWhiteRabbit said:Del Quentin Wilber
✔
@DelWilber
!!! Prosecutor says that Manafort is cooperating with special counsel investigation !!!
4:24 PM - Sep 14, 2018
It will be a while before we know how significant it might be.
This is not how justice should work.0 -
Living abroad I read all my news on-line apart from a few freebies occasionally.AlastairMeeks said:
Since my dad died, my mum has cut down buying the Mail from seven days a week to Saturday and Sunday only. My dad used to love having it around to read it all day when he was ill. My mum, however, has decided she would just get it at the weekends for the bigger crosswords. I'm sure part of her decision was related to the tone of the paper which she definitely resents.felix said:
As with most papers. I doubt very much if the editorial line has much impact on sales either way.AlastairMeeks said:
Sales of the Mail will drop sharply.Morris_Dancer said:Be interesting to see what it does to sales.
FPT: Mr. Eagles, go and check that map. You've started new threads twice today, right after I posted it.
Honestly. Anyone would think you were doing it on purpose.
That's a safe prediction, they've been dropping sharply for some time and there's no reason to expect the change of political direction to change this trend.0 -
https://twitter.com/NickBryantNY/status/1040623634891644928CarlottaVance said:That's what I call 'leverage':
https://twitter.com/ReutersPolitics/status/10406328988466339850 -
Is anyone actually going to be tried and convicted?AlastairMeeks said:
https://twitter.com/NickBryantNY/status/1040623634891644928CarlottaVance said:That's what I call 'leverage':
https://twitter.com/ReutersPolitics/status/1040632898846633985
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Not the question I asked. I am aware that morality and the law are different.oxfordsimon said:
Morality has nothing to do with the law. The law will not provide protection to anyone seeking to assert their 'moral' rights by walking into a store and taking something without paying for it.Anazina said:Regarding House of Fraser
Are those owed refunds of goods by the company within their rights, morally, to walk into a store and simply take them?
People who did not receive their goods are creditors of the old company and have to proceed accordingly.0 -
Yes - price crashes only really harm those cashing in their bricks so to speak. In 1980 I lost 20K on my flat and gained 25k on the house I wanted to buy. Pretty much a wash.David_Evershed said:
A house price crash makes it easier to move up marker and/or a better area or even to London.Anazina said:The new editor is clearly sticking up for his core constituency – the middle classes. A house price crash suits them not.
0 -
The answer to your question is a no. I was just putting it into a broader context.Anazina said:
Not the question I asked. I am aware that morality and the law are different.oxfordsimon said:
Morality has nothing to do with the law. The law will not provide protection to anyone seeking to assert their 'moral' rights by walking into a store and taking something without paying for it.Anazina said:Regarding House of Fraser
Are those owed refunds of goods by the company within their rights, morally, to walk into a store and simply take them?
People who did not receive their goods are creditors of the old company and have to proceed accordingly.0 -
Manafort has already been found guilty by a jury on multiple counts.oxfordsimon said:
All of these plea bargains means that evidence is not being tested in court and the 'cooperation' being 'required' means that what emerges from that process is tainted.Nigelb said:
Mueller prosecutor Andrew Weissmann did not immediately expand on what cooperation is required under the deal.... according to Politico.TheWhiteRabbit said:Del Quentin Wilber
✔
@DelWilber
!!! Prosecutor says that Manafort is cooperating with special counsel investigation !!!
4:24 PM - Sep 14, 2018
It will be a while before we know how significant it might be.
This is not how justice should work.
As for 'tainted' evidence, defences are well versed in making exactly that point, as we saw in Manafort's own trial - which is why it would need corroborating, as it was in Manafort's own case.
Are you saying that the criminal justice system ought never to be allowed to obtain evidence from confessed criminals in return for a degree of sentencing leniency ? That is how the justice system woks in many countries, including to some degree our own.0 -
It would appear not. It is a very coercive system.RobD said:
Is anyone actually going to be tried and convicted?AlastairMeeks said:
https://twitter.com/NickBryantNY/status/1040623634891644928CarlottaVance said:That's what I call 'leverage':
https://twitter.com/ReutersPolitics/status/10406328988466339850 -
It was a more general comment. Plea bargaining is used to settle 90% of court cases.Nigelb said:
Manafort has already been found guilty by a jury on multiple counts.oxfordsimon said:
All of these plea bargains means that evidence is not being tested in court and the 'cooperation' being 'required' means that what emerges from that process is tainted.Nigelb said:
Mueller prosecutor Andrew Weissmann did not immediately expand on what cooperation is required under the deal.... according to Politico.TheWhiteRabbit said:Del Quentin Wilber
✔
@DelWilber
!!! Prosecutor says that Manafort is cooperating with special counsel investigation !!!
4:24 PM - Sep 14, 2018
It will be a while before we know how significant it might be.
This is not how justice should work.
As for 'tainted' evidence, defences are well versed in making exactly that point, as we saw in Manafort's own trial - which is why it would need corroborating, as it was in Manafort's own case.
Are you saying that the criminal justice system ought never to be allowed to obtain evidence from confessed criminals in return for a degree of sentencing leniency ? That is how the justice system woks in many countries, including to some degree our own.0 -
Manafort already has.RobD said:
Is anyone actually going to be tried and convicted?AlastairMeeks said:
https://twitter.com/NickBryantNY/status/1040623634891644928CarlottaVance said:That's what I call 'leverage':
https://twitter.com/ReutersPolitics/status/10406328988466339850 -
The trial taxoxfordsimon said:
It would appear not. It is a very coercive system.RobD said:
Is anyone actually going to be tried and convicted?AlastairMeeks said:
https://twitter.com/NickBryantNY/status/1040623634891644928CarlottaVance said:That's what I call 'leverage':
https://twitter.com/ReutersPolitics/status/10406328988466339850 -
I'd agree that it is used excessively in the US - usually against defendants who don't have the wherewithal to fund their own defence.RobD said:
It was a more general comment. Plea bargaining is used to settle 90% of court cases.Nigelb said:
Manafort has already been found guilty by a jury on multiple counts.oxfordsimon said:
All of these plea bargains means that evidence is not being tested in court and the 'cooperation' being 'required' means that what emerges from that process is tainted.Nigelb said:
Mueller prosecutor Andrew Weissmann did not immediately expand on what cooperation is required under the deal.... according to Politico.TheWhiteRabbit said:Del Quentin Wilber
✔
@DelWilber
!!! Prosecutor says that Manafort is cooperating with special counsel investigation !!!
4:24 PM - Sep 14, 2018
It will be a while before we know how significant it might be.
This is not how justice should work.
As for 'tainted' evidence, defences are well versed in making exactly that point, as we saw in Manafort's own trial - which is why it would need corroborating, as it was in Manafort's own case.
Are you saying that the criminal justice system ought never to be allowed to obtain evidence from confessed criminals in return for a degree of sentencing leniency ? That is how the justice system woks in many countries, including to some degree our own.
That really isn't the case here.
Interestingly, it would seem that Manafort's guilty plea is effectively pardon-proof:
https://www.emptywheel.net/2018/09/14/the-manafort-plea-is-pardon-proof/
And incidentally, the Mueller investigation has now paid for itself.0 -
Isn’t he already bankrupt?Nigelb said:
I'd agree that it is used excessively in the US - usually against defendants who don't have the wherewithal to fund their own defence.RobD said:
It was a more general comment. Plea bargaining is used to settle 90% of court cases.Nigelb said:
Manafort has already been found guilty by a jury on multiple counts.oxfordsimon said:
All of these plea bargains means that evidence is not being tested in court and the 'cooperation' being 'required' means that what emerges from that process is tainted.Nigelb said:
Mueller prosecutor Andrew Weissmann did not immediately expand on what cooperation is required under the deal.... according to Politico.TheWhiteRabbit said:Del Quentin Wilber
✔
@DelWilber
!!! Prosecutor says that Manafort is cooperating with special counsel investigation !!!
4:24 PM - Sep 14, 2018
It will be a while before we know how significant it might be.
This is not how justice should work.
As for 'tainted' evidence, defences are well versed in making exactly that point, as we saw in Manafort's own trial - which is why it would need corroborating, as it was in Manafort's own case.
Are you saying that the criminal justice system ought never to be allowed to obtain evidence from confessed criminals in return for a degree of sentencing leniency ? That is how the justice system woks in many countries, including to some degree our own.
That really isn't the case here.
Interestingly, it would seem that Manafort's guilty plea is effectively pardon-proof:
https://www.emptywheel.net/2018/09/14/the-manafort-plea-is-pardon-proof/
And incidentally, the Mueller investigation has now paid for itself.0 -
For this charge? What’s the plea bargain about then?Alistair said:
Manafort already has.RobD said:
Is anyone actually going to be tried and convicted?AlastairMeeks said:
https://twitter.com/NickBryantNY/status/1040623634891644928CarlottaVance said:That's what I call 'leverage':
https://twitter.com/ReutersPolitics/status/1040632898846633985
0 -
Get fit for Brexit with Brexfit.
https://metro.co.uk/2018/09/14/brexfit-is-the-new-workout-that-lets-you-punch-boris-johnson-in-the-face-7944331/0 -
Manafort had a charge list as long as your arm.RobD said:
For this charge? What’s the plea bargain about then?Alistair said:
Manafort already has.RobD said:
Is anyone actually going to be tried and convicted?AlastairMeeks said:
https://twitter.com/NickBryantNY/status/1040623634891644928CarlottaVance said:That's what I call 'leverage':
https://twitter.com/ReutersPolitics/status/1040632898846633985
He himself opted to split the trial venues (a tactical decision which appears to have been badly misjudged) in the hope that he'd be found innocent in the first trial.
He wasn't.0 -
Manafort has been subject to two different legal processes. The first trial in Virginia did, indeed, lead to a conviction rather than a guilty plea - but only on some of the charges. A mistrial was declared on the others.Nigelb said:
Manafort has already been found guilty by a jury on multiple counts.oxfordsimon said:
All of these plea bargains means that evidence is not being tested in court and the 'cooperation' being 'required' means that what emerges from that process is tainted.Nigelb said:
Mueller prosecutor Andrew Weissmann did not immediately expand on what cooperation is required under the deal.... according to Politico.TheWhiteRabbit said:Del Quentin Wilber
✔
@DelWilber
!!! Prosecutor says that Manafort is cooperating with special counsel investigation !!!
4:24 PM - Sep 14, 2018
It will be a while before we know how significant it might be.
This is not how justice should work.
As for 'tainted' evidence, defences are well versed in making exactly that point, as we saw in Manafort's own trial - which is why it would need corroborating, as it was in Manafort's own case.
Are you saying that the criminal justice system ought never to be allowed to obtain evidence from confessed criminals in return for a degree of sentencing leniency ? That is how the justice system woks in many countries, including to some degree our own.
Today's plea bargain is in relation to the case being considered by courts in DC as well as some of the outstanding charges in Virginia.
It is a very complicated picture and it is not easy to unpick it to fully see how today's plea bargain was agreed.
On cases of this complexity and importance to the understanding of how Trump's campaign operated, I still maintain that it is better for these things to be fully explored in open court. I know people are entitled to plead guilty. But the preponderance of plea bargains in these particular cases is not good at achieving real insight into the issues that concern people.0 -
WTF are the BBC and Sky giving so much time to Hurricane Florence?0
-
All the best Mr Gallowgate and a full recovery.0
-
Yes, but there are different states of bankruptcy.RobD said:
Isn’t he already bankrupt?Nigelb said:
I'd agree that it is used excessively in the US - usually against defendants who don't have the wherewithal to fund their own defence.RobD said:
It was a more general comment. Plea bargaining is used to settle 90% of court cases.Nigelb said:
Manafort has already been found guilty by a jury on multiple counts.oxfordsimon said:
All of these plea bargains means that evidence is not being tested in court and the 'cooperation' being 'required' means that what emerges from that process is tainted.Nigelb said:
Mueller prosecutor Andrew Weissmann did not immediately expand on what cooperation is required under the deal.... according to Politico.TheWhiteRabbit said:Del Quentin Wilber
✔
@DelWilber
!!! Prosecutor says that Manafort is cooperating with special counsel investigation !!!
4:24 PM - Sep 14, 2018
It will be a while before we know how significant it might be.
This is not how justice should work.
As for 'tainted' evidence, defences are well versed in making exactly that point, as we saw in Manafort's own trial - which is why it would need corroborating, as it was in Manafort's own case.
Are you saying that the criminal justice system ought never to be allowed to obtain evidence from confessed criminals in return for a degree of sentencing leniency ? That is how the justice system woks in many countries, including to some degree our own.
That really isn't the case here.
Interestingly, it would seem that Manafort's guilty plea is effectively pardon-proof:
https://www.emptywheel.net/2018/09/14/the-manafort-plea-is-pardon-proof/
And incidentally, the Mueller investigation has now paid for itself.
His assets have been forfeited to the state, which I guess means that a few dodgy banks are going to be SOL getting back some of their cash.
Given some of the ones he was dealing with, I'm not entirely sympathetic.0 -
Love it!williamglenn said:Get fit for Brexit with Brexfit.
https://metro.co.uk/2018/09/14/brexfit-is-the-new-workout-that-lets-you-punch-boris-johnson-in-the-face-7944331/
The biggest c*nt in British politics!0 -
Just over halfway into the podcast.
Given the centre-left likes the centre but the centre-right does not seem to, that suggests a 'centrist' party would just be soft left, rather than balanced (as the term implies).0 -
The large majority of criminal cases in this country involve guilty pleas as well. You don't get to send people to trial for administrative convenience of they prefer the alternative.oxfordsimon said:
Manafort has been subject to two different legal processes. The first trial in Virginia did, indeed, lead to a conviction rather than a guilty plea - but only on some of the charges. A mistrial was declared on the others.Nigelb said:
Manafort has already been found guilty by a jury on multiple counts.oxfordsimon said:
All of these plea bargains means that evidence is not being tested in court and the 'cooperation' being 'required' means that what emerges from that process is tainted.Nigelb said:
Mueller prosecutor Andrew Weissmann did not immediately expand on what cooperation is required under the deal.... according to Politico.TheWhiteRabbit said:Del Quentin Wilber
✔
@DelWilber
!!! Prosecutor says that Manafort is cooperating with special counsel investigation !!!
4:24 PM - Sep 14, 2018
It will be a while before we know how significant it might be.
This is not how justice should work.
As for 'tainted' evidence, defences are well versed in making exactly that point, as we saw in Manafort's own trial - which is why it would need corroborating, as it was in Manafort's own case.
Are you saying that the criminal justice system ought never to be allowed to obtain evidence from confessed criminals in return for a degree of sentencing leniency ? That is how the justice system woks in many countries, including to some degree our own.
Today's plea bargain is in relation to the case being considered by courts in DC as well as some of the outstanding charges in Virginia.
It is a very complicated picture and it is not easy to unpick it to fully see how today's plea bargain was agreed.
On cases of this complexity and importance to the understanding of how Trump's campaign operated, I still maintain that it is better for these things to be fully explored in open court. I know people are entitled to plead guilty. But the preponderance of plea bargains in these particular cases is not good at achieving real insight into the issues that concern people.
As for the two jurisdictions, opting for separate trials was entirely Manafort's choice.
0 -
Erghh...Paul Manafort.....RobD said:
Is anyone actually going to be tried and convicted?AlastairMeeks said:
https://twitter.com/NickBryantNY/status/1040623634891644928CarlottaVance said:That's what I call 'leverage':
https://twitter.com/ReutersPolitics/status/1040632898846633985
0 -
Encouraging violence against politicians. What could possibly go wrong?murali_s said:
Love it!williamglenn said:Get fit for Brexit with Brexfit.
https://metro.co.uk/2018/09/14/brexfit-is-the-new-workout-that-lets-you-punch-boris-johnson-in-the-face-7944331/
The biggest c*nt in British politics!0 -
Boris doesn't have the depth nor the warmth.murali_s said:
Love it!williamglenn said:Get fit for Brexit with Brexfit.
https://metro.co.uk/2018/09/14/brexfit-is-the-new-workout-that-lets-you-punch-boris-johnson-in-the-face-7944331/
The biggest c*nt in British politics!0 -
It really is an inappropriate idea.RobD said:
Encouraging violence against politicians. What could possibly go wrong?murali_s said:
Love it!williamglenn said:Get fit for Brexit with Brexfit.
https://metro.co.uk/2018/09/14/brexfit-is-the-new-workout-that-lets-you-punch-boris-johnson-in-the-face-7944331/
The biggest c*nt in British politics!0 -
There is strong scientific support for the safety and efficacy of giving effigies a good pasting:RobD said:
Encouraging violence against politicians. What could possibly go wrong?murali_s said:
Love it!williamglenn said:Get fit for Brexit with Brexfit.
https://metro.co.uk/2018/09/14/brexfit-is-the-new-workout-that-lets-you-punch-boris-johnson-in-the-face-7944331/
The biggest c*nt in British politics!
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/sep/14/voodoo-doll-and-cannibalism-studies-triumph-at-ig-nobels0 -
+1TheScreamingEagles said:
Boris doesn't have the depth nor the warmth.murali_s said:
Love it!williamglenn said:Get fit for Brexit with Brexfit.
https://metro.co.uk/2018/09/14/brexfit-is-the-new-workout-that-lets-you-punch-boris-johnson-in-the-face-7944331/
The biggest c*nt in British politics!
Haha! True!0 -
If you have £400,000 equity in a £500,000 house you can buy an £800,000 house with a £400,000 mortgage, only 50% LTV.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Mortgage lender will collapse, so very unlikely.No-one is going to lend 70 LTV if prices are down 35% y-o-yDavid_Evershed said:
A house price crash makes it easier to move up market and/or a better area or even to London.Anazina said:The new editor is clearly sticking up for his core constituency – the middle classes. A house price crash suits them not.
0 -
Mr. B, recall reading a news article about a psychological study into using a punching bag to blow off steam. Found that it worked, initially, to relieve stress, but getting that same release required increasing workout intensity and ended up creating more anger than it relieved.
Quote I had at the start of Journey to Altmortis is by Marcus Aurelius:
How much more grievous are the consequences of anger than the causes of it.0 -
Don't be such a snowflake, it is just like when Kenny Everett told the Tory conference to kick Michael Foot's cane.oxfordsimon said:
It really is an inappropriate idea.RobD said:
Encouraging violence against politicians. What could possibly go wrong?murali_s said:
Love it!williamglenn said:Get fit for Brexit with Brexfit.
https://metro.co.uk/2018/09/14/brexfit-is-the-new-workout-that-lets-you-punch-boris-johnson-in-the-face-7944331/
The biggest c*nt in British politics!
Just a bit of fun in the best possible taste0 -
Evidence for the assertions about centres left and right?Morris_Dancer said:Just over halfway into the podcast.
Given the centre-left likes the centre but the centre-right does not seem to, that suggests a 'centrist' party would just be soft left, rather than balanced (as the term implies).0 -
In the current climate, encouraging violence against politicians is not something I can condone - even if it can be viewed as 'just a bit of fun'TheScreamingEagles said:
Don't be such a snowflake, it is just like when Kenny Everett told the Tory conference to kick Michael Foot's cane.oxfordsimon said:
It really is an inappropriate idea.RobD said:
Encouraging violence against politicians. What could possibly go wrong?murali_s said:
Love it!williamglenn said:Get fit for Brexit with Brexfit.
https://metro.co.uk/2018/09/14/brexfit-is-the-new-workout-that-lets-you-punch-boris-johnson-in-the-face-7944331/
The biggest c*nt in British politics!
Just a bit of fun in the best possible taste
That is not about being a snowflake, it is about not wanting to further add to the febrile atmosphere that exists at the moment.0 -
We had an MP assassinated a couple of years ago. I wouldn't make a habit of encouraging violence against them at the mo.0
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Mr. Evershed, in the polling, the centre-left tends to quite like the centre, but the centre-right prefers the right.
There's also the current political landscape to consider. Sane Labour types would be the most obvious potential members. They can still be pretty left yet far to the right of Comrade Corbyn.0 -
I can't help feeling that it would have been a lot less trouble for Paul Manafort to have registered as a lobbyist and paid the 37% tax on his foreign income, all things considered.0
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But if say house values have been wiped by at least 35% in a short space of time then lenders will be wary about lending to high value properties.David_Evershed said:
If you have £400,000 equity in a £500,000 house you can buy an £800,000 house with a £400,000 mortgage, only 50% LTV.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Mortgage lender will collapse, so very unlikely.No-one is going to lend 70 LTV if prices are down 35% y-o-yDavid_Evershed said:
A house price crash makes it easier to move up market and/or a better area or even to London.Anazina said:The new editor is clearly sticking up for his core constituency – the middle classes. A house price crash suits them not.
They don't wish to be ones without a chair when the music stops.0
