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SystemSystem Posts: 12,651
edited August 2018 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Corbyn got through GE2017 without his back-story becoming an issue – 14 months on things are different

Jeremy Corbyn makes it clear he did not inhale the wreath. https://t.co/VSLXHO28a9

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • William_HWilliam_H Posts: 346
    Corbyn won't go until the Labour election rules have changed, that's fairly simple.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Corbyn got off 14 months ago because everyone agreed he was unelectable so he wasn't challenged. Thus he nearly got accidentally elected.

    That's not happening again.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,299
    GE 2022: Won't be May, won't be Corbyn, won't be Cable leading the parties.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,933
    edited August 2018
    Corbyn Netanyahu row second top headline on BBC 10 O'clock news after the Dr Bawa-Garba story
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,933
    SandyRentool said:

    GE 2022: Won't be May, won't be Corbyn, won't be Cable leading the parties.

    Actually may well be given the likely alternative to May is Boris and Corbynistas will not give up control of the party before the general election and Cable is pretty stubborn too
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,732
    Labour haven't had 300 MPs or more since 2010.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited August 2018
    I see the Tory commentariat are bungling their attacks on Corbyn once again, by accusing him of being deliberately evil and malicious (a charge which seems patently ridiculous even to most members of the public who wouldn't vote for him), rather than accusing him of well-meaning but incredible, and perhaps dangerous, naivete, and too willing to see good in people even when they're obviously unpleasant (a charge which even I, as a paid-up Labour member, think there's some truth to).
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,451
    edited August 2018
    Jeremy Corbyn is innocent/
    He was framed by some cunning punks/
    Caught in the House with his trousers down/
    Politics in a lammay gown/

    Oh Jeremy, Oh Jeremy, Oh Jeremy, me, me, me, me, me......
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    His backstory may not have come up much during the GE (although I definitely remember him getting bad headlines from the Mail et al at the time) but it had done plenty of times between 2015-17. He certainly did not get 14 months off. In fact, it was his back story - and the headlines it produced that was the precise reason as to why he was deemed unelectable. It seems odd that so many are having amnesia as to how bad things were going for Corbyn prior to the GE. Why do people think he was twenty points behind in the first place?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,619
    edited August 2018
    Corbyn can be backed at 5 (4/1 in old money) to leave office this year, and can be backed at 1.5 (1/2) to make it to 2020.
    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/politics/event/28051208/market?marketId=1.129710997
    He can also be backed at 4.2 to be next leader to leave out of himself, May, Cable and Sturgeon.
    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/politics/event/28051208/market?marketId=1.132776540
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,455
    Sandpit said:

    Corbyn can be backed at 5 (4/1 in old money) to leave office this year, and can be backed at 1.5 (1/2) to make it to 2020.
    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/politics/event/28051208/market?marketId=1.129710997

    I know which I'm backing... Corbyn ain't going anywhere
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Danny565 said:

    I see the Tory commentariat are bungling their attacks on Corbyn once again, by accusing him of being deliberately evil and malicious (a charge which seems patently ridiculous even to most members of the public who wouldn't vote for him), rather than accusing him of well-meaning but incredibly, and perhaps dangerously, naive, and too willing to see the good in people even when they're patently unpleasant (a charge which even I, as a paid-up Labour member, think there's some truth to).

    So, he is at least one of too stupid/too nasty to run a whelk stall. Does it matter which? But you may be right about what is the more effective attack line. Ultimate Evil didn't work too well in GE 17 so perhaps we should switch from calling him Stalin to calling him Mr Bean.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,451
    Danny565 said:

    I see the Tory commentariat are bungling their attacks on Corbyn once again, by accusing him of being deliberately evil and malicious (a charge which seems patently ridiculous even to most members of the public who wouldn't vote for him), rather than accusing him of well-meaning but incredible, and perhaps dangerous, naivete, and too willing to see good in people even when they're obviously unpleasant (a charge which even I, as a paid-up Labour member, think there's some truth to).

    For a man who is not evil and malicious, he seems remarkably keen to associate with evil and malicious men.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Danny565 said:

    I see the Tory commentariat are bungling their attacks on Corbyn once again, by accusing him of being deliberately evil and malicious (a charge which seems patently ridiculous even to most members of the public who wouldn't vote for him), rather than accusing him of well-meaning but incredibly, and perhaps dangerously, naive, and too willing to see the good in people even when they're patently unpleasant (a charge which even I, as a paid-up Labour member, think there's some truth to).

    So, he is at least one of too stupid/too nasty to run a whelk stall. Does it matter which? But you may be right about what is the more effective attack line. Ultimate Evil didn't work too well in GE 17 so perhaps we should switch from calling him Stalin to calling him Mr Bean.
    Attacking Labour’s competence has always been a much more profitable line for the Tories. It worked well with Ed Miliband, and I think it’s much better bet re Corbyn because it hits at Corbyn’s ability to deliver what he’s promising people.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,325
    no sign of the Mail front page yet.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/sw1a0aa/status/1029116777740021761
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/P_G_Thompson/status/1029116678683144193
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,492
    edited August 2018
    Jeremy Corbyn is being framed.

    Keen historians like me remember the Zinoviev letter.

    I mean you can’t get a more Jewish name than Zinoviev.

    Corbyn is a peace maker.

    It is no coincidence that Corbyn has the same initials as Jesus Christ, who was also framed by you know who.

    #ThinkLikeACorbynite
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,718
    Danny565 said:

    I see the Tory commentariat are bungling their attacks on Corbyn once again, by accusing him of being deliberately evil and malicious (a charge which seems patently ridiculous even to most members of the public who wouldn't vote for him), rather than accusing him of well-meaning but incredible, and perhaps dangerous, naivete, and too willing to see good in people even when they're obviously unpleasant (a charge which even I, as a paid-up Labour member, think there's some truth to).

    What good would even the most naive well-meaning person see in people who took innocent men hostage, castrated one, tortured others and then killed them all?
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,325
    https://twitter.com/PolProfSteve/status/1029116321978572801
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    https://twitter.com/mocent0/status/1029109901501624320?s=21
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1029118078968389638
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,325
    https://twitter.com/AllieHBNews/status/1029118078968389638

  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Jeremy Corbyn is being framed.

    Keen historians like me remember the Zinoviev letter.

    I mean you can’t get a more Jewish name than Zinoviev.

    Corbyn is a peace maker.

    It is no coincidence that Corbyn has the same initials as Jesus Christ, who was also framed by you know who.

    Who will be Judas to our Messiah? Who will be Simon Peter and deny him three leadership contests? Who will pass judgement as Pilate?

    And who will play the two Marys.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,732
    dr_spyn said:

    https://twitter.com/PolProfSteve/status/1029116321978572801

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9M_bqIB6EU
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited August 2018
    Cyclefree said:

    Danny565 said:

    I see the Tory commentariat are bungling their attacks on Corbyn once again, by accusing him of being deliberately evil and malicious (a charge which seems patently ridiculous even to most members of the public who wouldn't vote for him), rather than accusing him of well-meaning but incredible, and perhaps dangerous, naivete, and too willing to see good in people even when they're obviously unpleasant (a charge which even I, as a paid-up Labour member, think there's some truth to).

    What good would even the most naive well-meaning person see in people who took innocent men hostage, castrated one, tortured others and then killed them all?
    I can't be bothered arguing the substance of the issue - I am just saying as far as public perceptions go, the idea of cuddly-but-hapless Corbyn being a cartoon villain who celebrates people dying and masterminds evil plots seems laughably implausible. As the Tories found out last year
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,455
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Jeremy Corbyn is being framed.

    Keen historians like me remember the Zinoviev letter.

    I mean you can’t get a more Jewish name than Zinoviev.

    Corbyn is a peace maker.

    It is no coincidence that Corbyn has the same initials as Jesus Christ, who was also framed by you know who.

    #ThinkLikeACorbynite

    I don't think it's possible to be outrageous enough to be trolling, the response to you and to an actual Corbynite is now identical
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,845
    brendan16 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Jeremy Corbyn is being framed.

    Keen historians like me remember the Zinoviev letter.

    I mean you can’t get a more Jewish name than Zinoviev.

    Corbyn is a peace maker.

    It is no coincidence that Corbyn has the same initials as Jesus Christ, who was also framed by you know who.

    Who will be Judas to our Messiah? Who will be Simon Peter and deny him three leadership contests? Who will pass judgement as Pilate?

    And who will play the two Marys.
    Hosanna, hey sanna, sanna sanna ho
    Sanna hey, sanna hosanna
    Hey JC, JC, won't you smile at me?
    Sanna ho, sanna hey, Superstar
  • EmptyNesterEmptyNester Posts: 94
    A representative of JVL claimed on The World Tonight that the Mail had been 'devious' and had 'switched the graves around' in the photos as Corbyn was nowhere near the terrorists' graves. This despite being told that Corbyn had admitted being there. Oh, and he couldn't have had anything to do with a wreath as his hands were in his pockets. Not sure he's done his hero any favours.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,732
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Jeremy Corbyn is being framed.

    Keen historians like me remember the Zinoviev letter.

    I mean you can’t get a more Jewish name than Zinoviev.

    Corbyn is a peace maker.

    It is no coincidence that Corbyn has the same initials as Jesus Christ, who was also framed by you know who.

    #ThinkLikeACorbynite

    Crucifixion was a Roman punishment. If the Jews really wanted to be rid of JC they would have stoned him, surely?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Toasty toasty toasty toasty McToastface Corbtoast.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/JakeWSimons/status/1029060702567391232
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,492
    TheWhiteRabbit said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Jeremy Corbyn is being framed.

    Keen historians like me remember the Zinoviev letter.

    I mean you can’t get a more Jewish name than Zinoviev.

    Corbyn is a peace maker.

    It is no coincidence that Corbyn has the same initials as Jesus Christ, who was also framed by you know who.

    #ThinkLikeACorbynite

    I don't think it's possible to be outrageous enough to be trolling, the response to you and to an actual Corbynite is now identical
    Looking at Twitter it is Poe’s Law in action.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,845
    Perhaps we have all been mishearing Corbyn. Perhaps he has been saying that he is a cheese-maker and not a peace-maker all this time...
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/JakeWSimons/status/1029094654741041153
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,718
    Danny565 said:

    I see the Tory commentariat are bungling their attacks on Corbyn once again, by accusing him of being deliberately evil and malicious (a charge which seems patently ridiculous even to most members of the public who wouldn't vote for him), rather than accusing him of well-meaning but incredible, and perhaps dangerous, naivete, and too willing to see good in people even when they're obviously unpleasant (a charge which even I, as a paid-up Labour member, think there's some truth to).

    If he really was a well meaning fool who genuinely though he was trying to help, he would not lie when asked about these matters. When people lie, it is a pretty good sign that they know they have been caught doing something not right and are trying to wriggle out of it. It demonstrates a lack of integrity. Corbyn knew exactly what he was doing; he was proud of it. He chose to associate with violent people and that tells us something very important about his character and judgment.

    If there were any evidence at all that he really was engaged in a debate, that he really was trying pursue peace and act as a one-man honest broker, then one might cut him some slack. But there is no such evidence because that too is a lie. He has never been involved in a debate or in any sort of peace process. He is the useful idiot for all sorts of nasty regimes and violent terror groups using him to whitewash themselves using the kudos of a British MP.

    Still, if you want to put forward a fool who does not understand the difference between good and evil as suitable to be PM, be my guest. Personally, I think he is not a fool, that he has moral agency and has chosen to ally himself with violence. His choice. Bizarre and saddening that so many others should seek to justify him. But that’s their choice too.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/RobJoyce156/status/1029064484051202049
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited August 2018
    It would be bizarre for voters to turn against Corbyn for supporting terrorists who murdered Israeli athletes, when they didn't seem in the least bit fussed that he supported IRA terrorists who murdered Britons and very nearly succeeded in wiping out Her Majesty's ministers - to the extent that he invited the colleagues of the murderers in to parliament, to rub the noses of his fellow MPs in the horror of their maimed wives and murdered friends.

    Still, as the great lady whom he was apparently cool with being a potential victim might have said, if voters are finally getting, as the youngsters say, 'woke', then we should Rejoice!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,315
    I know I am pessimistic on these things, but that it didn't resonate 14 months ago doesn't fill me with confidence about now. I mean, the Boris stuff knocked it off the papers for a bit, what chance it sticks around once september kicks off, particularly if he concedes on other things.

    As for McDonnell, is his past that much less full of issues?

    I do think you hit the nail on the head with his very familiar rebuttal. He just finds himself in these situations. The remarkable thing is the resilience of some defences of him even when he has abandoned that line of defence.
    Danny565 said:

    I see the Tory commentariat are bungling their attacks on Corbyn once again, by accusing him of being deliberately evil and malicious (a charge which seems patently ridiculous even to most members of the public who wouldn't vote for him), rather than accusing him of well-meaning but incredible, and perhaps dangerous, naivete, and too willing to see good in people even when they're obviously unpleasant (a charge which even I, as a paid-up Labour member, think there's some truth to).

    It may be a deliberate strategy - to make him seem the problem, not merely that he has unfortunate connections.

    Even admitting I am no Corbyn fan I have been able to say positive things about him at least, and his continual excuses for finding himself in these situations is really stretching credibility though, it makes it harder to think he is just a naiive bunger. That is probably what he is, but he is really pushing it with the excuses which, and this is important, I bet his supporters would not dare forgive someone else for using.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/ministerofmemes/status/1029108166498377733
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,315
    Philip_Thompson said:

    Corbyn got off 14 months ago because everyone agreed he was unelectable so he wasn't challenged. Thus he nearly got accidentally elected.

    That's not happening again.

    A hypothesis which cannot be proven. While his personal ratings have dipped since, he had a surge of support after the GE because it could be argued plenty in Labour didn't like him because they thought he was leading them to disaster, and then they made gains, and those people might be more fired up now than before, with the zeal of the converted.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,315
    SandyRentool said:

    GE 2022: Won't be May, won't be Corbyn, won't be Cable leading the parties.

    I'd say I hope that to be the case, but then we'd probably get JRM, Williamson and whoever the LD equivalent is at the moment.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,933
    SeanT said:

    Netanyahu might be the one man to save Corbyn. An odious, corrupt Jewish liar condemning a stupid, dangerous British liar: people may just shrug and think "politicians, what can you do".... Plus: ugh Israel.

    Anti-Semitism is hideous but the Jewish state, right now, is hardly a thing of beauty.

    BUT I think long term this does terminal damage to Corbyn (no idea what it does to Netanyahu). It's bad mainly because he can never escape it: his enemies will always use it, and it will always be crippling if not ever fatal. i.e. He can never win a GE and the Labour Hard Left know that their one big chance of winning a GE is the next one. They've got one shot, and that's it. JC won't deliver.

    I suspect Milne and McDonnell will move against JC before 2022.

    I agree with the commenter below who says that a 2022 election will probably see all three parties under new leaders.

    PS Boris' tea gag went down well. He's playing this adroitly.

    Milne and McDonnell dare not move against JC because if he goes they go
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,315
    Is tonight the first time Corbyn will have said 'Thank heaven's for Netanyahu!'?
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    SeanT said:

    Netanyahu might be the one man to save Corbyn. An odious, corrupt Jewish liar condemning a stupid, dangerous British liar: people may just shrug and think "politicians, what can you do".... Plus: ugh Israel.

    Anti-Semitism is hideous but the Jewish state, right now, is hardly a thing of beauty.

    BUT I think long term this does terminal damage to Corbyn (no idea what it does to Netanyahu). It's bad mainly because he can never escape it: his enemies will always use it, and it will always be crippling if not ever fatal. i.e. He can never win a GE and the Labour Hard Left know that their one big chance of winning a GE is the next one. They've got one shot, and that's it. JC won't deliver.

    I suspect Milne and McDonnell will move against JC before 2022.

    I agree with the commenter below who says that a 2022 election will probably see all three parties under new leaders.

    PS Boris' tea gag went down well. He's playing this adroitly.

    A good post from you, it’s been a while. Beats Muslim bashing and white pride anyday.

    Who do you think M&M see as Corbyn’s anointed successor? It will be a woman. Long-Bailey to shore up the heartland vote? (She is often cast on here as a blonde barmaid, by those who really need some diversity training)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,492
    https://twitter.com/daniel_sugarman/status/1029122669214617601?s=21
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,718
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    It would be bizarre for voters to turn against Corbyn for supporting terrorists who murdered Israeli athletes, when they didn't seem in the least bit fussed that he supported IRA terrorists who murdered Britons and very nearly succeeded in wiping out Her Majesty's ministers - to the extent that he invited the colleagues of the murderers in to parliament, to rub the noses of his fellow MPs in the horror of their maimed wives and murdered friends.

    Still, as the great lady whom he was apparently cool with being a potential victim might have said, if voters are finally getting, as the youngsters say, 'woke', then we should Rejoice!

    There will be something else, closer to home. Putting my investigator’s hat on, I’d look at the people involved with the Finsbury Park mosque over the years.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,845
    Not sure if there is anything to this story - but it might be something to explore:

    https://www.theredroar.com/2018/08/corbyn-didnt-declare-wreath-laying-trip-to-tunisia/
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,258
    There needs to be one connection, just one, a person, or organisation which has a link with a recent UK terrorist incident and *then* he would be toast.

    Maybe the Mail has it. What is their MO on such exposés?
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464
    Danny565 said:

    I see the Tory commentariat are bungling their attacks on Corbyn once again, by accusing him of being deliberately evil and malicious (a charge which seems patently ridiculous even to most members of the public who wouldn't vote for him), rather than accusing him of well-meaning but incredible, and perhaps dangerous, naivete, and too willing to see good in people even when they're obviously unpleasant (a charge which even I, as a paid-up Labour member, think there's some truth to).

    Odd how it’s the IRA/Hamas/Palestinians he’s met and seen the good in and talked about peace with, but amazingly seems to have spent four decades avoiding their opponents and talking about peace with them.

    How bizarre. If only there were an obvious explanation.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    TGOHF said:

    Toasty toasty toasty toasty McToastface Corbtoast.

    If only. He’s going nowhere (at least for now)
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Anazina said:

    SeanT said:

    Netanyahu might be the one man to save Corbyn. An odious, corrupt Jewish liar condemning a stupid, dangerous British liar: people may just shrug and think "politicians, what can you do".... Plus: ugh Israel.

    Anti-Semitism is hideous but the Jewish state, right now, is hardly a thing of beauty.

    BUT I think long term this does terminal damage to Corbyn (no idea what it does to Netanyahu). It's bad mainly because he can never escape it: his enemies will always use it, and it will always be crippling if not ever fatal. i.e. He can never win a GE and the Labour Hard Left know that their one big chance of winning a GE is the next one. They've got one shot, and that's it. JC won't deliver.

    I suspect Milne and McDonnell will move against JC before 2022.

    I agree with the commenter below who says that a 2022 election will probably see all three parties under new leaders.

    PS Boris' tea gag went down well. He's playing this adroitly.

    A good post from you, it’s been a while. Beats Muslim bashing and white pride anyday.

    Who do you think M&M see as Corbyn’s anointed successor? It will be a woman. Long-Bailey to shore up the heartland vote? (She is often cast on here as a blonde barmaid, by those who really need some diversity training)
    She’s thicker than cement.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    oxfordsimon said:

    brendan16 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Jeremy Corbyn is being framed.

    Keen historians like me remember the Zinoviev letter.

    I mean you can’t get a more Jewish name than Zinoviev.

    Corbyn is a peace maker.

    It is no coincidence that Corbyn has the same initials as Jesus Christ, who was also framed by you know who.

    Who will be Judas to our Messiah? Who will be Simon Peter and deny him three leadership contests? Who will pass judgement as Pilate?

    And who will play the two Marys.
    Hosanna, hey sanna, sanna sanna ho
    Sanna hey, sanna hosanna
    Hey JC, JC, won't you smile at me?
    Sanna ho, sanna hey, Superstar
    Written by a Tory
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,933
    Anazina said:

    SeanT said:

    Netanyahu might be the one man to save Corbyn. An odious, corrupt Jewish liar condemning a stupid, dangerous British liar: people may just shrug and think "politicians, what can you do".... Plus: ugh Israel.

    Anti-Semitism is hideous but the Jewish state, right now, is hardly a thing of beauty.

    BUT I think long term this does terminal damage to Corbyn (no idea what it does to Netanyahu). It's bad mainly because he can never escape it: his enemies will always use it, and it will always be crippling if not ever fatal. i.e. He can never win a GE and the Labour Hard Left know that their one big chance of winning a GE is the next one. They've got one shot, and that's it. JC won't deliver.

    I suspect Milne and McDonnell will move against JC before 2022.

    I agree with the commenter below who says that a 2022 election will probably see all three parties under new leaders.

    PS Boris' tea gag went down well. He's playing this adroitly.

    A good post from you, it’s been a while. Beats Muslim bashing and white pride anyday.

    Who do you think M&M see as Corbyn’s anointed successor? It will be a woman. Long-Bailey to shore up the heartland vote? (She is often cast on here as a blonde barmaid, by those who really need some diversity training)
    I would never vote for him in a million years but at least Corbyn has a bit of gravitas, Long-Bailey would be overpromoted if she was made leader of Salford Council let alone PM of the UK
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,315
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    It would be bizarre for voters to turn against Corbyn for supporting terrorists who murdered Israeli athletes, when they didn't seem in the least bit fussed that he supported IRA terrorists who murdered Britons and very nearly succeeded in wiping out Her Majesty's ministers - to the extent that he invited the colleagues of the murderers in to parliament, to rub the noses of his fellow MPs in the horror of their maimed wives and murdered friends.

    Still, as the great lady whom he was apparently cool with being a potential victim might have said, if voters are finally getting, as the youngsters say, 'woke', then we should Rejoice!

    What sign is there of voters getting woke? 2017 proved they still need positive reasons to vote for alternatives, and for a variety of reasons not enough felt they had that in 2017. The Tories are in less of a position to offer that now, and the LDs are still nowhere. It's like Corbyn keeps tripping over his own feet but one opponent keeps running from side to side, making little progress, and the other hasn't even left the starting block, so none of them are getting any nearer the finishing line!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,315
    edited August 2018
    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    SeanT said:

    Netanyahu might be the one man to save Corbyn. An odious, corrupt Jewish liar condemning a stupid, dangerous British liar: people may just shrug and think "politicians, what can you do".... Plus: ugh Israel.

    Anti-Semitism is hideous but the Jewish state, right now, is hardly a thing of beauty.

    BUT I think long term this does terminal damage to Corbyn (no idea what it does to Netanyahu). It's bad mainly because he can never escape it: his enemies will always use it, and it will always be crippling if not ever fatal. i.e. He can never win a GE and the Labour Hard Left know that their one big chance of winning a GE is the next one. They've got one shot, and that's it. JC won't deliver.

    I suspect Milne and McDonnell will move against JC before 2022.

    I agree with the commenter below who says that a 2022 election will probably see all three parties under new leaders.

    PS Boris' tea gag went down well. He's playing this adroitly.

    A good post from you, it’s been a while. Beats Muslim bashing and white pride anyday.

    Who do you think M&M see as Corbyn’s anointed successor? It will be a woman. Long-Bailey to shore up the heartland vote? (She is often cast on here as a blonde barmaid, by those who really need some diversity training)
    I would never vote for him in a million years but at least Corbyn has a bit of gravitas, Long-Bailey would be overpromoted if she was made leader of Salford Council let alone PM of the UK
    She has issues, but Thornberry has gravitas.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Jeremy Corbyn is being framed.

    Keen historians like me remember the Zinoviev letter.

    I mean you can’t get a more Jewish name than Zinoviev.

    Corbyn is a peace maker.

    It is no coincidence that Corbyn has the same initials as Jesus Christ, who was also framed by you know who.

    #ThinkLikeACorbynite

    Crucifixion was a Roman punishment. If the Jews really wanted to be rid of JC they would have stoned him, surely?
    They (the Sanhedrin) wanted him dead, but without his blood on their hands. So Caiaphas manipulated the Romans
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,455
    oxfordsimon said:

    Not sure if there is anything to this story - but it might be something to explore:

    https://www.theredroar.com/2018/08/corbyn-didnt-declare-wreath-laying-trip-to-tunisia/

    Perhaps he paid for it himself.

    Maybe he didn't, but we can all hypothethise things the Tunisian government *didn't* pay us to do.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,107
    Not convinced this will damage Corbyn. His supporters will stick with him. Those complaining most vocally were never going to vote for him anyway. His hostility to Israel policy is not news. Opposing Netanyahu is not an unpopular position.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,315
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/ministerofmemes/status/1029108166498377733

    These are some funny memes, I just hope his opponents do not get carried away and think, in their amusement, too much is happening here. Maybe there is something to this now, but they've had a lot of false dawns.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,531
    SandyRentool said:

    GE 2022: Won't be May, won't be Corbyn, won't be Cable leading the parties.

    GE 2022: Won't be May, won't be Corbyn, won't be Cable, won't be Jones, won't be Sturgeon leading the parties... Not going to bother including UKIP or the Greens as who knows who will be leading them come the next GE, that just leaves Leanne Wood and Arlene Foster?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,718
    TOPPING said:

    There needs to be one connection, just one, a person, or organisation which has a link with a recent UK terrorist incident and *then* he would be toast.

    Maybe the Mail has it. What is their MO on such exposés?

    I have been saying this for a while. I don’t think it will be in the Mail, though. And it might well be a link to a European or US terror incident.
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    TGOHF said:

    Anazina said:

    SeanT said:

    Netanyahu might be the one man to save Corbyn. An odious, corrupt Jewish liar condemning a stupid, dangerous British liar: people may just shrug and think "politicians, what can you do".... Plus: ugh Israel.

    Anti-Semitism is hideous but the Jewish state, right now, is hardly a thing of beauty.

    BUT I think long term this does terminal damage to Corbyn (no idea what it does to Netanyahu). It's bad mainly because he can never escape it: his enemies will always use it, and it will always be crippling if not ever fatal. i.e. He can never win a GE and the Labour Hard Left know that their one big chance of winning a GE is the next one. They've got one shot, and that's it. JC won't deliver.

    I suspect Milne and McDonnell will move against JC before 2022.

    I agree with the commenter below who says that a 2022 election will probably see all three parties under new leaders.

    PS Boris' tea gag went down well. He's playing this adroitly.

    A good post from you, it’s been a while. Beats Muslim bashing and white pride anyday.

    Who do you think M&M see as Corbyn’s anointed successor? It will be a woman. Long-Bailey to shore up the heartland vote? (She is often cast on here as a blonde barmaid, by those who really need some diversity training)
    She’s thicker than cement.
    Is she? She is a solicitor.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,455
    Jonathan said:

    Not convinced this will damage Corbyn. His supporters will stick with him. Those complaining most vocally were never going to vote for him anyway. His hostility to Israel policy is not news. Opposing Netanyahu is not an unpopular position.

    If the London locals told us anything, it's that Jews have friends. And colleagues. And families, and employees, and schoolfriends, etc.

    It's a small difference to the overall picture, but I wouldn't disregard it
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,845
    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    SeanT said:

    Netanyahu might be the one man to save Corbyn. An odious, corrupt Jewish liar condemning a stupid, dangerous British liar: people may just shrug and think "politicians, what can you do".... Plus: ugh Israel.

    Anti-Semitism is hideous but the Jewish state, right now, is hardly a thing of beauty.

    BUT I think long term this does terminal damage to Corbyn (no idea what it does to Netanyahu). It's bad mainly because he can never escape it: his enemies will always use it, and it will always be crippling if not ever fatal. i.e. He can never win a GE and the Labour Hard Left know that their one big chance of winning a GE is the next one. They've got one shot, and that's it. JC won't deliver.

    I suspect Milne and McDonnell will move against JC before 2022.

    I agree with the commenter below who says that a 2022 election will probably see all three parties under new leaders.

    PS Boris' tea gag went down well. He's playing this adroitly.

    A good post from you, it’s been a while. Beats Muslim bashing and white pride anyday.

    Who do you think M&M see as Corbyn’s anointed successor? It will be a woman. Long-Bailey to shore up the heartland vote? (She is often cast on here as a blonde barmaid, by those who really need some diversity training)
    I would never vote for him in a million years but at least Corbyn has a bit of gravitas, Long-Bailey would be overpromoted if she was made leader of Salford Council let alone PM of the UK
    There is no gravitas in Corbyn - you are confusing old age/grey hair with wisdom and authority.

    He is a geography teacher who has refused to leave the 1970s behind - and that doesn't equal gravitas.
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469
    https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/asa-winstanley/meet-spies-injecting-israeli-propaganda-your-news-feed
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,587
    All this is exhausting for us oldies as it is for our tablet's batteries

    Time to wish everyone a restful night

    Good night
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    kle4 said:

    What sign is there of voters getting woke? ...

    Not much, TBH. It beggars belief, but there we are.

    I suppose that if voters are prepared to suspend disbelief on his economics, suspending disbelief on his excuses is a small step.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,315
    TheWhiteRabbit said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Jeremy Corbyn is being framed.

    Keen historians like me remember the Zinoviev letter.

    I mean you can’t get a more Jewish name than Zinoviev.

    Corbyn is a peace maker.

    It is no coincidence that Corbyn has the same initials as Jesus Christ, who was also framed by you know who.

    #ThinkLikeACorbynite

    I don't think it's possible to be outrageous enough to be trolling, the response to you and to an actual Corbynite is now identical
    The one asking fort pictures of him laying a wreath, being provided pictures of him holding said wreath and then a picture of it on the ground, responding that no picture showed him laying it down, was hilarious.

    Seriously, I do understand believing Corbyn offers a better plan for government, but there are enough Corbynite MPs to ensure a left winger gets on the ballot, and the membership to see them win, there doesn't need to be such devotion to a man with so much baggage, there will be options.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,933
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    SeanT said:

    Netanyahu might be the one man to save Corbyn. An odious, corrupt Jewish liar condemning a stupid, dangerous British liar: people may just shrug and think "politicians, what can you do".... Plus: ugh Israel.

    Anti-Semitism is hideous but the Jewish state, right now, is hardly a thing of beauty.

    BUT I think long term this does terminal damage to Corbyn (no idea what it does to Netanyahu). It's bad mainly because he can never escape it: his enemies will always use it, and it will always be crippling if not ever fatal. i.e. He can never win a GE and the Labour Hard Left know that their one big chance of winning a GE is the next one. They've got one shot, and that's it. JC won't deliver.

    I suspect Milne and McDonnell will move against JC before 2022.

    I agree with the commenter below who says that a 2022 election will probably see all three parties under new leaders.

    PS Boris' tea gag went down well. He's playing this adroitly.

    A good post from you, it’s been a while. Beats Muslim bashing and white pride anyday.

    Who do you think M&M see as Corbyn’s anointed successor? It will be a woman. Long-Bailey to shore up the heartland vote? (She is often cast on here as a blonde barmaid, by those who really need some diversity training)
    I would never vote for him in a million years but at least Corbyn has a bit of gravitas, Long-Bailey would be overpromoted if she was made leader of Salford Council let alone PM of the UK
    She has issues, but Thornberry has gravitas.
    Thornberry has a bit more gravitas than Long Bailey I will give her that but she is too centrist for Corbynistas, not anti Brexit enough for 'People's Voters' and still too leftwing for Tory swing voters
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    TheWhiteRabbit said:

    Jonathan said:

    Not convinced this will damage Corbyn. His supporters will stick with him. Those complaining most vocally were never going to vote for him anyway. His hostility to Israel policy is not news. Opposing Netanyahu is not an unpopular position.

    If the London locals told us anything, it's that Jews have friends. And colleagues. And families, and employees, and schoolfriends, etc.

    It's a small difference to the overall picture, but I wouldn't disregard it
    Didn't someone publish figures recently showing Labour's share of the Jewish vote had actually RISEN since Corbyn replaced Miliband...
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    SeanT said:

    Netanyahu might be the one man to save Corbyn. An odious, corrupt Jewish liar condemning a stupid, dangerous British liar: people may just shrug and think "politicians, what can you do".... Plus: ugh Israel.

    Anti-Semitism is hideous but the Jewish state, right now, is hardly a thing of beauty.

    BUT I think long term this does terminal damage to Corbyn (no idea what it does to Netanyahu). It's bad mainly because he can never escape it: his enemies will always use it, and it will always be crippling if not ever fatal. i.e. He can never win a GE and the Labour Hard Left know that their one big chance of winning a GE is the next one. They've got one shot, and that's it. JC won't deliver.

    I suspect Milne and McDonnell will move against JC before 2022.

    I agree with the commenter below who says that a 2022 election will probably see all three parties under new leaders.

    PS Boris' tea gag went down well. He's playing this adroitly.

    A good post from you, it’s been a while. Beats Muslim bashing and white pride anyday.

    Who do you think M&M see as Corbyn’s anointed successor? It will be a woman. Long-Bailey to shore up the heartland vote? (She is often cast on here as a blonde barmaid, by those who really need some diversity training)
    I would never vote for him in a million years but at least Corbyn has a bit of gravitas, Long-Bailey would be overpromoted if she was made leader of Salford Council let alone PM of the UK
    She has issues, but Thornberry has gravitas.
    Thornberry is by far the best candidate, hence why I am sceptical that she will be chosen!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,933
    oxfordsimon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    SeanT said:

    Netanyahu might be the one man to save Corbyn. An odious, corrupt Jewish liar condemning a stupid, dangerous British liar: people may just shrug and think "politicians, what can you do".... Plus: ugh Israel.

    Anti-Semitism is hideous but the Jewish state, right now, is hardly a thing of beauty.

    BUT I think long term this does terminal damage to Corbyn (no idea what it does to Netanyahu). It's bad mainly because he can never escape it: his enemies will always use it, and it will always be crippling if not ever fatal. i.e. He can never win a GE and the Labour Hard Left know that their one big chance of winning a GE is the next one. They've got one shot, and that's it. JC won't deliver.

    I suspect Milne and McDonnell will move against JC before 2022.

    I agree with the commenter below who says that a 2022 election will probably see all three parties under new leaders.

    PS Boris' tea gag went down well. He's playing this adroitly.

    A good post from you, it’s been a while. Beats Muslim bashing and white pride anyday.

    Who do you think M&M see as Corbyn’s anointed successor? It will be a woman. Long-Bailey to shore up the heartland vote? (She is often cast on here as a blonde barmaid, by those who really need some diversity training)
    I would never vote for him in a million years but at least Corbyn has a bit of gravitas, Long-Bailey would be overpromoted if she was made leader of Salford Council let alone PM of the UK
    There is no gravitas in Corbyn - you are confusing old age/grey hair with wisdom and authority.

    He is a geography teacher who has refused to leave the 1970s behind - and that doesn't equal gravitas.
    The alternatives were Corbyn and Rebecca Long-Bailey, I was not comparing him to Churchill
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464
    fitalass said:

    SandyRentool said:

    GE 2022: Won't be May, won't be Corbyn, won't be Cable leading the parties.

    GE 2022: Won't be May, won't be Corbyn, won't be Cable, won't be Jones, won't be Sturgeon leading the parties... Not going to bother including UKIP or the Greens as who knows who will be leading them come the next GE, that just leaves Leanne Wood and Arlene Foster?
    I doubt Ms Wood is going to survive the pincer movement of the current (note current) leadership contest going on against both Adam Price and Rhun ap Iorwerth either of whom are hugely better than her.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,258
    Cyclefree said:

    TOPPING said:

    There needs to be one connection, just one, a person, or organisation which has a link with a recent UK terrorist incident and *then* he would be toast.

    Maybe the Mail has it. What is their MO on such exposés?

    I have been saying this for a while. I don’t think it will be in the Mail, though. And it might well be a link to a European or US terror incident.
    If it's in the US I can see it being as damaging as the current spat with Israel. ie not at all.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,845
    Anazina said:

    TGOHF said:

    Anazina said:

    SeanT said:

    Netanyahu might be the one man to save Corbyn. An odious, corrupt Jewish liar condemning a stupid, dangerous British liar: people may just shrug and think "politicians, what can you do".... Plus: ugh Israel.

    Anti-Semitism is hideous but the Jewish state, right now, is hardly a thing of beauty.

    BUT I think long term this does terminal damage to Corbyn (no idea what it does to Netanyahu). It's bad mainly because he can never escape it: his enemies will always use it, and it will always be crippling if not ever fatal. i.e. He can never win a GE and the Labour Hard Left know that their one big chance of winning a GE is the next one. They've got one shot, and that's it. JC won't deliver.

    I suspect Milne and McDonnell will move against JC before 2022.

    I agree with the commenter below who says that a 2022 election will probably see all three parties under new leaders.

    PS Boris' tea gag went down well. He's playing this adroitly.

    A good post from you, it’s been a while. Beats Muslim bashing and white pride anyday.

    Who do you think M&M see as Corbyn’s anointed successor? It will be a woman. Long-Bailey to shore up the heartland vote? (She is often cast on here as a blonde barmaid, by those who really need some diversity training)
    She’s thicker than cement.
    Is she? She is a solicitor.
    So is the MP for Peterborough who was up in court today for perverting the course of justice.

    Solicitors can be very, very stupid
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,531
    Cyclefree said:

    Danny565 said:

    I see the Tory commentariat are bungling their attacks on Corbyn once again, by accusing him of being deliberately evil and malicious (a charge which seems patently ridiculous even to most members of the public who wouldn't vote for him), rather than accusing him of well-meaning but incredible, and perhaps dangerous, naivete, and too willing to see good in people even when they're obviously unpleasant (a charge which even I, as a paid-up Labour member, think there's some truth to).

    What good would even the most naive well-meaning person see in people who took innocent men hostage, castrated one, tortured others and then killed them all?
    Exactly.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,315
    oxfordsimon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    SeanT said:

    Netanyahu might be the one man to save Corbyn. An odious, corrupt Jewish liar condemning a stupid, dangerous British liar: people may just shrug and think "politicians, what can you do".... Plus: ugh Israel.

    Anti-Semitism is hideous but the Jewish state, right now, is hardly a thing of beauty.

    BUT I think long term this does terminal damage to Corbyn (no idea what it does to Netanyahu). It's bad mainly because he can never escape it: his enemies will always use it, and it will always be crippling if not ever fatal. i.e. He can never win a GE and the Labour Hard Left know that their one big chance of winning a GE is the next one. They've got one shot, and that's it. JC won't deliver.

    I suspect Milne and McDonnell will move against JC before 2022.

    I agree with the commenter below who says that a 2022 election will probably see all three parties under new leaders.

    PS Boris' tea gag went down well. He's playing this adroitly.

    A good post from you, it’s been a while. Beats Muslim bashing and white pride anyday.

    Who do you think M&M see as Corbyn’s anointed successor? It will be a woman. Long-Bailey to shore up the heartland vote? (She is often cast on here as a blonde barmaid, by those who really need some diversity training)
    I would never vote for him in a million years but at least Corbyn has a bit of gravitas, Long-Bailey would be overpromoted if she was made leader of Salford Council let alone PM of the UK
    There is no gravitas in Corbyn - you are confusing old age/grey hair with wisdom and authority.

    He is a geography teacher who has refused to leave the 1970s behind - and that doesn't equal gravitas.
    Gravitas does not necessarily denote that someone has wisdom or authority, merely the appearance of it. Corbyn has a good, authoritative voice much of the time, he has a quiet, understated kind of dignity when he does not have one of his occasional snapping moments. I think he does have a level of gravitas, in the same way despite some peoples' objections Boris does have charisma, even as he also repels plenty of people.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1029123678053834754
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited August 2018
    HYUFD said:

    Thornberry has a bit more gravitas than Long Bailey I will give her that but she is too centrist for Corbynistas, not anti Brexit enough for 'People's Voters' and still too leftwing for Tory swing voters

    Swing voters who previously voted Tory might well vote for her, if the alternative is JRM or even Boris. She's not obviously bonkers, cynically careerist, or living in the 18th century, which is a good start.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/ProfChalmers/status/1029126471217016833
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    https://twitter.com/theredroar/status/1029121300583858179?s=21
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,845
    Anazina said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    SeanT said:

    Netanyahu might be the one man to save Corbyn. An odious, corrupt Jewish liar condemning a stupid, dangerous British liar: people may just shrug and think "politicians, what can you do".... Plus: ugh Israel.

    Anti-Semitism is hideous but the Jewish state, right now, is hardly a thing of beauty.

    BUT I think long term this does terminal damage to Corbyn (no idea what it does to Netanyahu). It's bad mainly because he can never escape it: his enemies will always use it, and it will always be crippling if not ever fatal. i.e. He can never win a GE and the Labour Hard Left know that their one big chance of winning a GE is the next one. They've got one shot, and that's it. JC won't deliver.

    I suspect Milne and McDonnell will move against JC before 2022.

    I agree with the commenter below who says that a 2022 election will probably see all three parties under new leaders.

    PS Boris' tea gag went down well. He's playing this adroitly.

    A good post from you, it’s been a while. Beats Muslim bashing and white pride anyday.

    Who do you think M&M see as Corbyn’s anointed successor? It will be a woman. Long-Bailey to shore up the heartland vote? (She is often cast on here as a blonde barmaid, by those who really need some diversity training)
    I would never vote for him in a million years but at least Corbyn has a bit of gravitas, Long-Bailey would be overpromoted if she was made leader of Salford Council let alone PM of the UK
    She has issues, but Thornberry has gravitas.
    Thornberry is by far the best candidate, hence why I am sceptical that she will be chosen!
    Her property empire will do her considerable damage
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,455
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1029123678053834754

    Hang on, their defence is that it didn't cost £300?

    I know you could get a steal to Tunisia in 2014, but really?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,315
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/ProfChalmers/status/1029126471217016833

    Spoiler alert much?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,933
    Danny565 said:

    TheWhiteRabbit said:

    Jonathan said:

    Not convinced this will damage Corbyn. His supporters will stick with him. Those complaining most vocally were never going to vote for him anyway. His hostility to Israel policy is not news. Opposing Netanyahu is not an unpopular position.

    If the London locals told us anything, it's that Jews have friends. And colleagues. And families, and employees, and schoolfriends, etc.

    It's a small difference to the overall picture, but I wouldn't disregard it
    Didn't someone publish figures recently showing Labour's share of the Jewish vote had actually RISEN since Corbyn replaced Miliband...
    63% of Jews voted Tory in 2017, 26% Labour

    http://www.brin.ac.uk/2017/religious-affiliation-and-party-choice-at-the-2017-general-election/

    In 2015 46% of Jews voted Tory and 29% Labour so the Jewish vote for Labour has fallen under Corbyn

    http://www.brin.ac.uk/2014/the-british-election-study-2015-religious-affiliation-and-attitudes/
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    SeanT said:

    Netanyahu might be the one man to save Corbyn. An odious, corrupt Jewish liar condemning a stupid, dangerous British liar: people may just shrug and think "politicians, what can you do".... Plus: ugh Israel.

    Anti-Semitism is hideous but the Jewish state, right now, is hardly a thing of beauty.

    BUT I think long term this does terminal damage to Corbyn (no idea what it does to Netanyahu). It's bad mainly because he can never escape it: his enemies will always use it, and it will always be crippling if not ever fatal. i.e. He can never win a GE and the Labour Hard Left know that their one big chance of winning a GE is the next one. They've got one shot, and that's it. JC won't deliver.

    I suspect Milne and McDonnell will move against JC before 2022.

    I agree with the commenter below who says that a 2022 election will probably see all three parties under new leaders.

    PS Boris' tea gag went down well. He's playing this adroitly.

    A good post from you, it’s been a while. Beats Muslim bashing and white pride anyday.

    Who do you think M&M see as Corbyn’s anointed successor? It will be a woman. Long-Bailey to shore up the heartland vote? (She is often cast on here as a blonde barmaid, by those who really need some diversity training)
    I would never vote for him in a million years but at least Corbyn has a bit of gravitas, Long-Bailey would be overpromoted if she was made leader of Salford Council let alone PM of the UK
    She has issues, but Thornberry has gravitas.
    Thornberry has a bit more gravitas than Long Bailey I will give her that but she is too centrist for Corbynistas, not anti Brexit enough for 'People's Voters' and still too leftwing for Tory swing voters
    She has never struck me as in any way leftwing, it’s more that she has been able to remain within the Corbynite tent, and has a very rich leftie constituency and a gigantic majority.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,531
    edited August 2018
    welshowl said:

    fitalass said:

    SandyRentool said:

    GE 2022: Won't be May, won't be Corbyn, won't be Cable leading the parties.

    GE 2022: Won't be May, won't be Corbyn, won't be Cable, won't be Jones, won't be Sturgeon leading the parties... Not going to bother including UKIP or the Greens as who knows who will be leading them come the next GE, that just leaves Leanne Wood and Arlene Foster?
    I doubt Ms Wood is going to survive the pincer movement of the current (note current) leadership contest going on against both Adam Price and Rhun ap Iorwerth either of whom are hugely better than her.
    Wood seems up for the fight, do you think that Welsh Labour can finally be unseated at the next Assembly elections?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,933
    Anazina said:

    TGOHF said:

    Anazina said:

    SeanT said:

    Netanyahu might be the one man to save Corbyn. An odious, corrupt Jewish liar condemning a stupid, dangerous British liar: people may just shrug and think "politicians, what can you do".... Plus: ugh Israel.

    Anti-Semitism is hideous but the Jewish state, right now, is hardly a thing of beauty.

    BUT I think long term this does terminal damage to Corbyn (no idea what it does to Netanyahu). It's bad mainly because he can never escape it: his enemies will always use it, and it will always be crippling if not ever fatal. i.e. He can never win a GE and the Labour Hard Left know that their one big chance of winning a GE is the next one. They've got one shot, and that's it. JC won't deliver.

    I suspect Milne and McDonnell will move against JC before 2022.

    I agree with the commenter below who says that a 2022 election will probably see all three parties under new leaders.

    PS Boris' tea gag went down well. He's playing this adroitly.

    A good post from you, it’s been a while. Beats Muslim bashing and white pride anyday.

    Who do you think M&M see as Corbyn’s anointed successor? It will be a woman. Long-Bailey to shore up the heartland vote? (She is often cast on here as a blonde barmaid, by those who really need some diversity training)
    She’s thicker than cement.
    Is she? She is a solicitor.
    With a degree from Manchester Met
  • AnazinaAnazina Posts: 3,487
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/ProfChalmers/status/1029126471217016833

    Spoiler alert much?
    Damn, I’m halfway through that one.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,315
    edited August 2018
    TGOHF said:

    https://twitter.com/theredroar/status/1029121300583858179?s=21

    A concerted campaign in the downtime of August will be the reaction I am sure (plus 'a possibility').

    Despite all this excitement I struggle to see a path to Corbyn exiting this side of Brexit, he has too much at stake and so do his backers. Can this provoke actual action from the MPs? I mean, I know new details emerged but we did hear this story some time ago so they know most of it already.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    I really like Emily Thornberry, I’d enthusiastically vote Labour if she was leader!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,933
    edited August 2018
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    HYUFD said:

    Thornberry has a bit more gravitas than Long Bailey I will give her that but she is too centrist for Corbynistas, not anti Brexit enough for 'People's Voters' and still too leftwing for Tory swing voters

    Swing voters who previoulsy voted Tory might well vote for her, if the alternative is JRM or even Boris. She's not obviously bonkers, cynically careerist, or living in the 18th century, which is a good start.
    No, at least Boris or JRM could be PM even if zany ones.

    Long Bailey would be so out of her depth she would need waterwings in the shallow end.

    Can you imagine Long Bailey going head to head with Trump, Putin, Macron, Xi, Merkel etc? She makes even Justin Trudeau look heavyweight
  • BannedOnTheRunBannedOnTheRun Posts: 58
    kle4 said:

    I know I am pessimistic on these things, but that it didn't resonate 14 months ago doesn't fill me with confidence about now. I mean, the Boris stuff knocked it off the papers for a bit, what chance it sticks around once september kicks off, particularly if he concedes on other things.

    Could be a black September for him
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,315
    edited August 2018
    The_Apocalypse said:

    I really like Emily Thornberry, I’d enthusiastically vote Labour if she was leader!

    I'm not quite certain where she fits, ideologically, but although she's had off moments, who hasn't, she seems competent, driven, a good performer. I'd be interested to know what her vision for the party would be.

    If Corbyn is forced out (not necessarily now, but perhaps just ahead of 2022) I would think the successors would all have to say how much they loved him to win though.

    Remember the debates after 2015? There was a great moment in one where the question was about what had gone wrong, and the first speaker, I forget who, went on about what a great job Ed M did etc etc, and the moderator interrupted, pointing out he lost, and that's why the contest was happening, or something along those lines.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    HYUFD said:



    63% of Jews voted Tory in 2017, 26% Labour

    http://www.brin.ac.uk/2017/religious-affiliation-and-party-choice-at-the-2017-general-election/

    In 2015 46% of Jews voted Tory and 29% Labour so the Jewish vote for Labour has fallen under Corbyn

    http://www.brin.ac.uk/2014/the-british-election-study-2015-religious-affiliation-and-attitudes/

    That bottom link was published in 2014, so it would seem slightly odd if it somehow managed to publish the real voteshares for the 2015 election!

    My recollection is that someone posted BES figures showing Miliband got ~20% of the Jewish vote, meaning Corbyn would've improved on that performance - but I may well be wrong.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,845
    I wonder how long before polling companies are investigating how people might vote with a different Labour leader.

    Surely someone has some money to pay for such things.

    And yes, I know these things are not terribly reliable - but it would be interesting to test out various candidates.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,933
    Danny565 said:

    HYUFD said:



    63% of Jews voted Tory in 2017, 26% Labour

    http://www.brin.ac.uk/2017/religious-affiliation-and-party-choice-at-the-2017-general-election/

    In 2015 46% of Jews voted Tory and 29% Labour so the Jewish vote for Labour has fallen under Corbyn

    http://www.brin.ac.uk/2014/the-british-election-study-2015-religious-affiliation-and-attitudes/

    That bottom link was published in 2014, so it would seem slightly odd if it somehow managed to publish the real voteshares for the 2015 election!

    My recollection is that someone posted BES figures showing Miliband got ~20% of the Jewish vote, meaning Corbyn would've improved on that performance - but I may well be wrong.
    Well that was the main link I got, if you can find another one be my guest
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    There you go... Corbyn's accusers are kid killers.
    https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1029113265866121218
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,933
    Anazina said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Anazina said:

    SeanT said:

    Netanyahu might be the one man to save Corbyn. An odious, corrupt Jewish liar condemning a stupid, dangerous British liar: people may just shrug and think "politicians, what can you do".... Plus: ugh Israel.

    Anti-Semitism is hideous but the Jewish state, right now, is hardly a thing of beauty.

    BUT I think long term this does terminal damage to Corbyn (no idea what it does to Netanyahu). It's bad mainly because he can never escape it: his enemies will always use it, and it will always be crippling if not ever fatal. i.e. He can never win a GE and the Labour Hard Left know that their one big chance of winning a GE is the next one. They've got one shot, and that's it. JC won't deliver.

    I suspect Milne and McDonnell will move against JC before 2022.

    I agree with the commenter below who says that a 2022 election will probably see all three parties under new leaders.

    PS Boris' tea gag went down well. He's playing this adroitly.

    A good post from you, it’s been a while. Beats Muslim bashing and white pride anyday.

    Who do you think M&M see as Corbyn’s anointed successor? It will be a woman. Long-Bailey to shore up the heartland vote? (She is often cast on here as a blonde barmaid, by those who really need some diversity training)
    I would never vote for him in a million years but at least Corbyn has a bit of gravitas, Long-Bailey would be overpromoted if she was made leader of Salford Council let alone PM of the UK
    She has issues, but Thornberry has gravitas.
    Thornberry has a bit more gravitas than Long Bailey I will give her that but she is too centrist for Corbynistas, not anti Brexit enough for 'People's Voters' and still too leftwing for Tory swing voters
    She has never struck me as in any way leftwing, it’s more that she has been able to remain within the Corbynite tent, and has a very rich leftie constituency and a gigantic majority.
    She is left liberal, see her St George's flag comments
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