The more right wing nutters that appear on the media the better Corbyn looks. It turns out the weath laying wasn't for the Munich murderers but for those killed in an Israeli airstrike in Tunisia condemned by the UN.
Radio 5 have just held a debate between a speechwriter for the Israeli embassy (the Regev effect?) and Naomy(?) a Corbyn defender. The man from the embassy was hopeless and arrogant and the Corbyn spokeswoman was feisty and persuasive
At the heart of this story are the actions of the Israeli govt in Gaza. That is obviously what motivates Corbyn. He gets things very wrong in how he opposes and protests, but in opposing it Corbyn is not on the shakiest ground. This comes across.
What also comes across is he has (at best) a shaky grasp of the specifics (at best) is forgetful and (at best) is easily confused. That, or he tells lies. Which would you prefer in a PM?
He only has to appear more honest than May or Blair..
Not sure the Vicar's daughter has got quite the embarrassing back catalogue of Corbyn....she also lost a university journalist acquaintance to an IRA bomb outside Harrods...
She is not immune from stretching the actuality. I cite the 2017 general election that we definitely do not need.
The media are clearly being unfair by using photographs for which Corbyn posed and videos of Corbyn speaking to undermine Corbyn's position. The bounders.
The more right wing nutters that appear on the media the better Corbyn looks. It turns out the weath laying wasn't for the Munich murderers but for those killed in an Israeli airstrike in Tunisia condemned by the UN.
Radio 5 have just held a debate between a speechwriter for the Israeli embassy (the Regev effect?) and Naomy(?) a Corbyn defender. The man from the embassy was hopeless and arrogant and the Corbyn spokeswoman was feisty and persuasive
At the heart of this story are the actions of the Israeli govt in Gaza. That is obviously what motivates Corbyn. He gets things very wrong in how he opposes and protests, but in opposing it Corbyn is not on the shakiest ground. This comes across.
What also comes across is he has (at best) a shaky grasp of the specifics (at best) is forgetful and (at best) is easily confused. That, or he tells lies. Which would you prefer in a PM?
He only has to appear more honest than May or Blair..
Not sure the Vicar's daughter has got quite the embarrassing back catalogue of Corbyn....she also lost a university journalist acquaintance to an IRA bomb outside Harrods...
The Harrods bomb nearly got my Aunt and cousin, they missed it by minutes.
Jeremy Corbyn will not need to be pushed if he thinks he is getting in the way. Till now the challenge for the hard left has been to retain control after he steps down. But if the NEC is reshaped as expected and with the membership now so Corbynite, that’s not really a problem.
He might go very quickly indeed if the right replacement can be identified.
Which woukd be very sensible of him because he is getting in the way a lot. As you say, getting an ideologically appropriate candidate to win should not be as hard now.
I just cannot see him contemplating doing so before Brexit and before May goes.
Which in fairness could be in 3 weeks.
Is he getting in the way? He may not appeal to Tories,but a lot of people REALLY like him and he has more charisma than most. Weird though that charisma might be. He was very effective in GE 2017.
I can’t see McDonald being as good on the stump.
And I think it dangerous to discount that charisma for either Boris or Jezza. It is the political X factor that is needed to get the average punter interested in politics. Trump has it, Macron too, Blair had it also at one time, but few of our other leading politicians do.
That charisma works on the party selectorates too, and I do not think policy detail troubles them quite so much. People want inspiration and vision. I don't see that Corbynism is anywhere near as popular as the man himself with the party membership.
Political charisma is a dangerous thing in many ways. It is a device for demagogues and weak on substance and detail. Nontheless nearly essential in a close fought race.
Absolutely. To really succeed you need to have “IT”. It can come in many forms and it is not always obvious , but you need to have that little spark to cut through. Corbyn does. Trump does. Blair did. Boris did and may still have it. Brown didn’t, May doesn’t. Most don’t.
Jeremy Corbyn will not need to be pushed if he thinks he is getting in the way. Till now the challenge for the hard left has been to retain control after he steps down. But if the NEC is reshaped as expected and with the membership now so Corbynite, that’s not really a problem.
He might go very quickly indeed if the right replacement can be identified.
Which woukd be very sensible of him because he is getting in the way a lot. As you say, getting an ideologically appropriate candidate to win should not be as hard now.
I just cannot see him contemplating doing so before Brexit and before May goes.
Which in fairness could be in 3 weeks.
Is he getting in the way? He may not appeal to Tories,but a lot of people REALLY like him and he has more charisma than most. Weird though that charisma might be. He was very effective in GE 2017.
I can’t see McDonald being as good on the stump.
He's getting in the way because despite his positives he's always getting dragged into rows like this one, which has only turned out well for him because of Netanyahu. He has so much baggage there are still a lot of people who will never consider him. I don't know who woukd be the best replacement, but if they had his blessing and could not face these stories all the time, I can only think they'd do even better even if that new leader inspires a bit less fervour
Without the central rallying point of Corbyn, it could all fall apart quickly for the left. A lot has been invested in JC and he has succeeded where a lot of others have failed, which is not something to take for granted.
Maybe, but the party machinery in safe hands and the membership brimming with Corbynite adoration, I think post brexit it would be safe for him to pass the torch. He can still show up to fire up the crowds.
As I've said passim, I'm unsure he wants, or ever wanted, to be PM. What he wants is to put in place measures that will mean that Labour will never, ever return to the 'poison' of centrism and Blairism.
...or the poison of power.
Jezza believes that left wing policies are a vote winner and the route to power if campaigned for passionately. The 2017 election and polls since show that on this he may well be correct.
The media are clearly being unfair by using photographs for which Corbyn posed and videos of Corbyn speaking to undermine Corbyn's position. The bounders.
A long time ago it was established quoting him could be a smear.
Strange intervention by Netanyahu. If this turns into a contest between Corbyn and Netanyahu for hearts and minds there can be only one winner.
+1
The sooner this hoo-hah is off the news headlines, the better. Netanyahu's intervention will rile the British public, who doesn't like being told what to do or think by foreign leaders. It is not helpful to those groups opposed to Corbyn.
Now is the time for Corbyn to go on the offensive. Along the lines of "I will not take lessons in morality from someone who shoots dead 100 Palestinian men women and children imprisoned behind a wire"
He takes his lessons in morality from people who castrate athletes at a sports event, torture them and then murder them. But you seemingly don’t care about that, provided you can take a pop at the Israeli PM.
And you're wrong about the wreath: the wreath was laid in front of the graves of the men who committed these acts. Corbyn held the wreath and joined in the prayers. If you can be bothered to find out the facts, you can see the photos of the ceremony in front of the different memorial in another location within the cemetery to those killed in the Tunis air strike but you will not see Corbyn in any of those pictures.
@JosiasJessop has it right: this man cannot be trusted to keep British citizens safe from terrorists he supports.
Jeremy Corbyn will not need to be pushed if he thinks he is getting in the way. Till now the challenge for the hard left has been to retain control after he steps down. But if the NEC is reshaped as expected and with the membership now so Corbynite, that’s not really a problem.
He might go very quickly indeed if the right replacement can be identified.
Which woukd be very sensible of him because he is getting in the way a lot. As you say, getting an ideologically appropriate candidate to win should not be as hard now.
I just cannot see him contemplating doing so before Brexit and before May goes.
Which in fairness could be in 3 weeks.
Is he getting in the way? He may not appeal to Tories,but a lot of people REALLY like him and he has more charisma than most. Weird though that charisma might be. He was very effective in GE 2017.
I can’t see McDonald being as good on the stump.
He's getting in the way because despite his positives he's always getting dragged into rows like this one, which has only turned out well for him because of Netanyahu. He has so much baggage there are still a lot of people who will never consider him. I don't know who woukd be the best replacement, but if they had his blessing and could not face these stories all the time, I can only think they'd do even better even if that new leader inspires a bit less fervour
Without the central rallying point of Corbyn, it could all fall apart quickly for the left. A lot has been invested in JC and he has succeeded where a lot of others have failed, which is not something to take for granted.
Maybe, but the party machinery in safe hands and the membership brimming with Corbynite adoration, I think post brexit it would be safe for him to pass the torch. He can still show up to fire up the crowds.
As I've said passim, I'm unsure he wants, or ever wanted, to be PM. What he wants is to put in place measures that will mean that Labour will never, ever return to the 'poison' of centrism and Blairism.
...or the poison of power.
Jezza believes that left wing policies are a vote winner and the route to power if campaigned for passionately. The 2017 election and polls since show that on this he may well be correct.
The fact he got 100 seats less than Blair got even in 2005 and May got more votes than Blair did in 1997 suggests maybe not
In retrospect, Mr Dancer, I think it is all a smear. An elderly holidaymaker in Tunisia wanders into a wreath-laying ceremony. In respect for the elderly, the terrorists kindly let him handle the wreath before taking him by the elbow and seeing him safely back to the beach.
Jeremy Corbyn will not need to be pushed if he thinks he is getting in the way. Till now the challenge for the hard left has been to retain control after he steps down. But if the NEC is reshaped as expected and with the membership now so Corbynite, that’s not really a problem.
He might go very quickly indeed if the right replacement can be identified.
Which woukd be very sensible of him because he is getting in the way a lot. As you say, getting an ideologically appropriate candidate to win should not be as hard now.
I just cannot see him contemplating doing so before Brexit and before May goes.
Which in fairness could be in 3 weeks.
Is he getting in the way? He may not appeal to Tories,but a lot of people REALLY like him and he has more charisma than most. Weird though that charisma might be. He was very effective in GE 2017.
I can’t see McDonald being as good on the stump.
And I think it dangerous to discount that charisma for either Boris or Jezza. It is the political X factor that is needed to get the average punter interested in politics. Trump has it, Macron too, Blair had it also at one time, but few of our other leading politicians do.
That charisma works on the party selectorates too, and I do not think policy detail troubles them quite so much. People want inspiration and vision. I don't see that Corbynism is anywhere near as popular as the man himself with the party membership.
Political charisma is a dangerous thing in many ways. It is a device for demagogues and weak on substance and detail. Nontheless nearly essential in a close fought race.
Absolutely. To really succeed you need to have “IT”. It can come in many forms and it is not always obvious , but you need to have that little spark to cut through. Corbyn does. Trump does. Blair did. Boris did and may still have it. Brown didn’t, May doesn’t. Most don’t.
Does he have *it*, or is it his message / platform that some find so endearing, rather than him? If Corbyn was a right-winger, would he still be seen to have charisma?
Boris certainly has it, which is why career-ending stories slide off him. He is Teflon, like Blair was. Either of those men could have supported the 'other' side and become prominent.
Corbyn's current problems indicate he doesn't have *it* - if he did, he'd be dealing with it much better. Likewise, if he had *it* then it wouldn't have taken him three decades to rise to prominence.
I can't help wondering if extended lockdowns aren't doing the terrorists' work by extending and prolonging disruption.
Well established terrorist tactic (used by the IRA among others) is to create crowds around a smallish event then strike a second time. The Bali bombing was the most devastating example of this - a small bomb drove crowds into the path of a much bigger bomb
Strange intervention by Netanyahu. If this turns into a contest between Corbyn and Netanyahu for hearts and minds there can be only one winner.
+1
The sooner this hoo-hah is off the news headlines, the better. Netanyahu's intervention will rile the British public, who doesn't like being told what to do or think by foreign leaders. It is not helpful to those groups opposed to Corbyn.
Now is the time for Corbyn to go on the offensive. Along the lines of "I will not take lessons in morality from someone who shoots dead 100 Palestinian men women and children imprisoned behind a wire"
(Snip)
@JosiasJessop has it right: this man cannot be trusted to keep British citizens safe from terrorists he supports.
Thanks. But do not be alarmed - normal service will shortly be resumed.
The fact he got 100 seats less than Blair got even in 2005 and May got more votes than Blair did in 1997 suggests maybe not
It is relative share of the vote that counts. May had more votes than Blair, because the electorate was bigger. Her vote share was smaller and the difference over Labour was smaller than Blair achieved over Major.
Corbyn lost, because despite polling over 40%, May polled a higher percentage.
Jeremy Corbyn will not need to be pushed if he thinks he is getting in the way. Till now the challenge for the hard left has been to retain control after he steps down. But if the NEC is reshaped as expected and with the membership now so Corbynite, that’s not really a problem.
He might go very quickly indeed if the right replacement can be identified.
Which woukd be very sensible of him because he is getting in the way a lot. As you say, getting an ideologically appropriate candidate to win should not be as hard now.
I just cannot see him contemplating doing so before Brexit and before May goes.
Which in fairness could be in 3 weeks.
Is he getting in the way? He may not appeal to Tories,but a lot of people REALLY like him and he has more charisma than most. Weird though that charisma might be. He was very effective in GE 2017.
I can’t see McDonald being as good on the stump.
And I think it dangerous to discount that charisma for either Boris or Jezza. It is the political X factor that is needed to get the average punter interested in politics. Trump has it, Macron too, Blair had it also at one time, but few of our other leading politicians do.
That charisma works on the party selectorates too, and I do not think policy detail troubles them quite so much. People want inspiration and vision. I don't see that Corbynism is anywhere near as popular as the man himself with the party membership.
Political charisma is a dangerous thing in many ways. It is a device for demagogues and weak on substance and detail. Nontheless nearly essential in a close fought race.
Absolutely. To really succeed you need to have “IT”. It can come in many forms and it is not always obvious , but you need to have that little spark to cut through. Corbyn does. Trump does. Blair did. Boris did and may still have it. Brown didn’t, May doesn’t. Most don’t.
My last job was “Director of IT”, does that count?
Does he have *it*, or is it his message / platform that some find so endearing, rather than him? If Corbyn was a right-winger, would he still be seen to have charisma?
Boris certainly has it, which is why career-ending stories slide off him. He is Teflon, like Blair was. Either of those men could have supported the 'other' side and become prominent.
Corbyn's current problems indicate he doesn't have *it* - if he did, he'd be dealing with it much better. Likewise, if he had *it* then it wouldn't have taken him three decades to rise to prominence.
It is mysterious and changes with the times. Blair’s flavour of IT is 20 years out of date. Equally Corbyns flavour only came into play after 2008.
But don’t doubt for a second that he has it. He has it. You don’t motivate that many people without it.
Boris is an interesting question. My hunch is that he has just enough left to win office, but after more than 10 years at the top, It will run out quickly.
In retrospect, Mr Dancer, I think it is all a smear. An elderly holidaymaker in Tunisia wanders into a wreath-laying ceremony. In respect for the elderly, the terrorists kindly let him handle the wreath before taking him by the elbow and seeing him safely back to the beach.
Jeremy Corbyn will not need to be pushed if he thinks he is getting in the way. Till now the challenge for the hard left has been to retain control after he steps down. But if the NEC is reshaped as expected and with the membership now so Corbynite, that’s not really a problem.
He might go very quickly indeed if the right replacement can be identified.
Which woukd be very sensible of him because he is getting in the way a lot. As you say, getting an ideologically appropriate candidate to win should not be as hard now.
I just cannot see him contemplating doing so before Brexit and before May goes.
Which in fairness could be in 3 weeks.
Is he getting in the way? He may not appeal to Tories,but a lot of people REALLY like him and he has more charisma than most. Weird though that charisma might be. He was very effective in GE 2017.
I can’t see McDonald being as good on the stump.
And I think it dangerous to discount that charisma for either Boris or Jezza. It is the political X factor that is needed to get the average punter interested in politics. Trump has it, Macron too, Blair had it also at one time, but few of our other leading politicians do.
That charisma works on the party selectorates too, and I do not think policy detail troubles them quite so much. People want inspiration and vision. I don't see that Corbynism is anywhere near as popular as the man himself with the party membership.
Political charisma is a dangerous thing in many ways. It is a device for demagogues and weak on substance and detail. Nontheless nearly essential in a close fought race.
Absolutely. To really succeed you need to have “IT”. It can come in many forms and it is not always obvious , but you need to have that little spark to cut through. Corbyn does. Trump does. Blair did. Boris did and may still have it. Brown didn’t, May doesn’t. Most don’t.
My last job was “Director of IT”, does that count?
"Director of ET" would look more impressive on your CV.
So, a number of people think Emily "images of Rochester" Thornberry might be the answer?
How do you think she'll go down in surburban or provincial English marginals?
Err.. like Rochester.
That'll get forgotten aside from the very politically interested. She will have time to reinvent herself and, most of all, she won't be Corbyn.
I'm far from convinced that she'd be a good leader, yet alone PM, but I can't see that event resonating in the long term.
It really really won't. The leaflets write themselves and they'll be posted through every letterbox of every marginal in the country.
It prods at that most British of sensitivities: class. People don't easily forget sneering and snobbery, particularly from someone representing the most elitist of London seats.
You'd think the Tories would have learned from 2016 and 2017 that they would be better employed coming up with something positive to say on their own account.
Indeed - the negative stories do write and perpetuate themselves, people still need a reason to justify voting for you. People do pick the least worst option, but I think we all like to imagine were picking the virtuous side too. Why else do people go so crazy that not only are tories/labour immoral/stupid, but that their leader is a living saint?
These stories do take their toll, week in, week out.
Corbyn has a loyal following, but overall, his ratings are terrible for an Opposition leader.
Jeremy Corbyn will not need to be pushed if he thinks he is getting in the way. Till now the challenge for the hard left has been to retain control after he steps down. But if the NEC is reshaped as expected and with the membership now so Corbynite, that’s not really a problem.
He might go very quickly indeed if the right replacement can be identified.
Which woukd be very sensible of him because he is getting in the way a lot. As you say, getting an ideologically appropriate candidate to win should not be as hard now.
I just cannot see him contemplating doing so before Brexit and before May goes.
Which in fairness could be in 3 weeks.
Is he getting in the way? He may not appeal to Tories,but a lot of people REALLY like him and he has more charisma than most. Weird though that charisma might be. He was very effective in GE 2017.
I can’t see McDonald being as good on the stump.
And I think it dangerous to discount that charisma for either Boris or Jezza. It is the political X factor that is needed to get the average punter interested in politics. Trump has it, Macron too, Blair had it also at one time, but few of our other leading politicians do.
That charisma works on the party selectorates too, and I do not think policy detail troubles them quite so much. People want inspiration and vision. I don't see that Corbynism is anywhere near as popular as the man himself with the party membership.
Political charisma is a dangerous thing in many ways. It is a device for demagogues and weak on substance and detail. Nontheless nearly essential in a close fought race.
Absolutely. To really succeed you need to have “IT”. It can come in many forms and it is not always obvious , but you need to have that little spark to cut through. Corbyn does. Trump does. Blair did. Boris did and may still have it. Brown didn’t, May doesn’t. Most don’t.
My last job was “Director of IT”, does that count?
It does count. You should go into politics. It will be amazing.
Does he have *it*, or is it his message / platform that some find so endearing, rather than him? If Corbyn was a right-winger, would he still be seen to have charisma?
Boris certainly has it, which is why career-ending stories slide off him. He is Teflon, like Blair was. Either of those men could have supported the 'other' side and become prominent.
Corbyn's current problems indicate he doesn't have *it* - if he did, he'd be dealing with it much better. Likewise, if he had *it* then it wouldn't have taken him three decades to rise to prominence.
It is mysterious and changes with the times. Blair’s flavour of IT is 20 years out of date. Equally Corbyns flavour only came into play after 2008.
But don’t doubt for a second that he has it. He has it. You don’t motivate that many people without it. (Snip)
You're saying that his platform or message resonates post-2008. That's not the same as charisma.
His platform is motivating people. A very noisy majority held their noses as they voted for a Blairite party whilst wanting a hard-left one. Now they see someone who is offering them that platform, and they are eager to support it. That's very different to charisma.
It's an important distinction IMO: it means that if Corbyn is brought down by this or something else, his supporters will be easily able to move onto whoever replaces him with that platform - their cause is on much shakier ground if it is true charisma, as that is non-transferable.
I can't help wondering if extended lockdowns aren't doing the terrorists' work by extending and prolonging disruption.
Well established terrorist tactic (used by the IRA among others) is to create crowds around a smallish event then strike a second time. The Bali bombing was the most devastating example of this - a small bomb drove crowds into the path of a much bigger bomb
Very tricky with a vehicle attack such as this. If this it be. Plus the area not conducive to secondaries.
I can't help wondering if extended lockdowns aren't doing the terrorists' work by extending and prolonging disruption.
Well established terrorist tactic (used by the IRA among others) is to create crowds around a smallish event then strike a second time. The Bali bombing was the most devastating example of this - a small bomb drove crowds into the path of a much bigger bomb
Very tricky with a vehicle attack such as this. If this it be. Plus the area not conducive to secondaries.
There could be a device in the boot of the vehicle.
The more right wing nutters that appear on the media the better Corbyn looks. It turns out the weath laying wasn't for the Munich murderers but for those killed in an Israeli airstrike in Tunisia condemned by the UN.
Radio 5 have just held a debate between a speechwriter for the Israeli embassy (the Regev effect?) and Naomy(?) a Corbyn defender. The man from the embassy was hopeless and arrogant and the Corbyn spokeswoman was feisty and persuasive
At the heart of this story are the actions of the Israeli govt in Gaza. That is obviously what motivates Corbyn. He gets things very wrong in how he opposes and protests, but in opposing it Corbyn is not on the shakiest ground. This comes across.
What also comes across is he has (at best) a shaky grasp of the specifics (at best) is forgetful and (at best) is easily confused. That, or he tells lies. Which would you prefer in a PM?
He only has to appear more honest than May or Blair..
Not sure the Vicar's daughter has got quite the embarrassing back catalogue of Corbyn....she also lost a university journalist acquaintance to an IRA bomb outside Harrods...
She is not immune from stretching the actuality. I cite the 2017 general election that we definitely do not need.
It is interesting to mull over where Corbyn would be now if May had not called that election. Most Labour MPs would probably still assume he would be a huge electoral liability when the election does come - and have felt less constrained from going against him. Meanwhile, Corbyn's facilitation of Brexit would be really riling up a chunk of non-Corbyn Labour.... And then this stuff about wreaths. He would be much less secure than we currently assume.
May has locked in Corbyn by calling the 2017 election. But she has also locked in place somebody her Party has beaten once...whilst punching itself in the face under the worst leader in decades.
My last job was “Director of IT”, does that count?
It does count. You should go into politics. It will be amazing.
I've known awful IT managers and some superb ones (Mr Pit, of course, must be in the latter grouping). I'd argue that the superb ones would make very good politicians: they need to be able too plan complex projects, manage budgets, deal with staff and sometimes obstreperous 'users'. They need to be able to look into the future and plan requirements. They need to be able to explain and sell complex concepts to people not equipped to understand them.
And they need to be able to cope with CEOs who decide to move everyone over to Linux (because he's heard it is good and cheaper) before the end of the year (*).
Fortunately for them, they'll earn much more as a superb IT manager than they would as a politician.
I can't help wondering if extended lockdowns aren't doing the terrorists' work by extending and prolonging disruption.
Well established terrorist tactic (used by the IRA among others) is to create crowds around a smallish event then strike a second time. The Bali bombing was the most devastating example of this - a small bomb drove crowds into the path of a much bigger bomb
Very tricky with a vehicle attack such as this. If this it be. Plus the area not conducive to secondaries.
There could be a device in the boot of the vehicle.
Yes could be. Not the MO to date, that said. Plus these are opportunist attacks; to have a secondary in the boot of a car you're driving is complicated, as the point of impact is unknown so detonating it when you want, assuming you're not dead, is also problematic.
Interesting that of course there usually are secondary attacks with vehicle borne attacks such as these, in the shape of people jumping out of the car with eg knives. That this didn't happen is interesting.
Does he have *it*, or is it his message / platform that some find so endearing, rather than him? If Corbyn was a right-winger, would he still be seen to have charisma?
Boris certainly has it, which is why career-ending stories slide off him. He is Teflon, like Blair was. Either of those men could have supported the 'other' side and become prominent.
Corbyn's current problems indicate he doesn't have *it* - if he did, he'd be dealing with it much better. Likewise, if he had *it* then it wouldn't have taken him three decades to rise to prominence.
It is mysterious and changes with the times. Blair’s flavour of IT is 20 years out of date. Equally Corbyns flavour only came into play after 2008.
But don’t doubt for a second that he has it. He has it. You don’t motivate that many people without it.
Boris is an interesting question. My hunch is that he has just enough left to win office, but after more than 10 years at the top, It will run out quickly.
Yes, Blair walked on water between 1994 and 2001. Even before Iraq, people were beginning to think worse of him, but Iraq accelerated the process.
My last job was “Director of IT”, does that count?
It does count. You should go into politics. It will be amazing.
I've known awful IT managers and some superb ones (Mr Pit, of course, must be in the latter grouping). I'd argue that the superb ones would make very good politicians: they need to be able too plan complex projects, manage budgets, deal with staff and sometimes obstreperous 'users'. They need to be able to look into the future and plan requirements. They need to be able to explain and sell complex concepts to people not equipped to understand them.
And they need to be able to cope with CEOs who decide to move everyone over to Linux (because he's heard it is good and cheaper) before the end of the year (*).
Fortunately for them, they'll earn much more as a superb IT manager than they would as a politician.
Mr. Topping, tactical changes do happen, though. The Indian skyscraper attack (whereby gunmen seized the ground floor then worked their way through the building) being one such case.
Mr. Topping, tactical changes do happen, though. The Indian skyscraper attack (whereby gunmen seized the ground floor then worked their way through the building) being one such case.
They absolutely do Morris. We shall have to wait and see what transpires from this.
As mentioned, that there was no subsequent cold weapon attack is a departure from the recent terrorist MO. We shall see what that means.
Does he have *it*, or is it his message / platform that some find so endearing, rather than him? If Corbyn was a right-winger, would he still be seen to have charisma?
Boris certainly has it, which is why career-ending stories slide off him. He is Teflon, like Blair was. Either of those men could have supported the 'other' side and become prominent.
Corbyn's current problems indicate he doesn't have *it* - if he did, he'd be dealing with it much better. Likewise, if he had *it* then it wouldn't have taken him three decades to rise to prominence.
It is mysterious and changes with the times. Blair’s flavour of IT is 20 years out of date. Equally Corbyns flavour only came into play after 2008.
But don’t doubt for a second that he has it. He has it. You don’t motivate that many people without it.
Boris is an interesting question. My hunch is that he has just enough left to win office, but after more than 10 years at the top, It will run out quickly.
Yes, Blair walked on water between 1994 and 2001. Even before Iraq, people were beginning to think worse of him, but Iraq accelerated the process.
Now, hardly anyone can stand him.
Undoubtably the pixie dust of charisma can fall away, as it did with Blair.
I think that both Boris and Jezza are losing it too.
I can't help wondering if extended lockdowns aren't doing the terrorists' work by extending and prolonging disruption.
Well established terrorist tactic (used by the IRA among others) is to create crowds around a smallish event then strike a second time. The Bali bombing was the most devastating example of this - a small bomb drove crowds into the path of a much bigger bomb
Very tricky with a vehicle attack such as this. If this it be. Plus the area not conducive to secondaries.
There could be a device in the boot of the vehicle.
Yes could be. Not the MO to date, that said. Plus these are opportunist attacks; to have a secondary in the boot of a car you're driving is complicated, as the point of impact is unknown so detonating it when you want, assuming you're not dead, is also problematic.
Interesting that of course there usually are secondary attacks with vehicle borne attacks such as these, in the shape of people jumping out of the car with eg knives. That this didn't happen is interesting.
They just mentioned on the BBC that last year there was a similar incident outside the British Museum, where the reaction was the same, and it turned out to be the driver being taken ill.
Now, the location of today's incident would make it rather a large coincidence, but it should be borne in mind.
On another point: might the 'smoke' seen be the powder emitted when airbags are deployed (AIUI, talcum powder used to prevent the fabric sticking)?
Does he have *it*, or is it his message / platform that some find so endearing, rather than him? If Corbyn was a right-winger, would he still be seen to have charisma?
Boris certainly has it, which is why career-ending stories slide off him. He is Teflon, like Blair was. Either of those men could have supported the 'other' side and become prominent.
Corbyn's current problems indicate he doesn't have *it* - if he did, he'd be dealing with it much better. Likewise, if he had *it* then it wouldn't have taken him three decades to rise to prominence.
It is mysterious and changes with the times. Blair’s flavour of IT is 20 years out of date. Equally Corbyns flavour only came into play after 2008.
But don’t doubt for a second that he has it. He has it. You don’t motivate that many people without it. (Snip)
You're saying that his platform or message resonates post-2008. That's not the same as charisma.
.
It’s both. His passionate campaigning style coupled with his so called ‘authentic’ amateur and quiet questioning anti-establishment demeanour, fits our times well. He looks different to the polished, rehearsed, pols that are currently struggling.
Does he have *it*, or is it his message / platform that some find so endearing, rather than him? If Corbyn was a right-winger, would he still be seen to have charisma?
Boris certainly has it, which is why career-ending stories slide off him. He is Teflon, like Blair was. Either of those men could have supported the 'other' side and become prominent.
Corbyn's current problems indicate he doesn't have *it* - if he did, he'd be dealing with it much better. Likewise, if he had *it* then it wouldn't have taken him three decades to rise to prominence.
It is mysterious and changes with the times. Blair’s flavour of IT is 20 years out of date. Equally Corbyns flavour only came into play after 2008.
But don’t doubt for a second that he has it. He has it. You don’t motivate that many people without it. (Snip)
You're saying that his platform or message resonates post-2008. That's not the same as charisma.
.
It’s both. His passionate campaigning style coupled with his so called ‘authentic’ amateur and quiet questioning anti-establishment demeanour, fits our times well. He looks different to the polished, rehearsed, pols that are currently struggling.
Urrm, if you hadn't noticed, he is struggling.
A 'charismatic' politician would have put this to bed long ago (or, like Boris, engineered and manipulated it for his own purposes).
The sad thing is this should be the end of Corbyn, but it won't be.
We are truly learning what cult based politics looks like.
On the other side of the spectrum it seems Trump really could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and not lose any votes such is the power of a leader when he has his followers in a trance.
Does he have *it*, or is it his message / platform that some find so endearing, rather than him? If Corbyn was a right-winger, would he still be seen to have charisma?
Boris certainly has it, which is why career-ending stories slide off him. He is Teflon, like Blair was. Either of those men could have supported the 'other' side and become prominent.
Corbyn's current problems indicate he doesn't have *it* - if he did, he'd be dealing with it much better. Likewise, if he had *it* then it wouldn't have taken him three decades to rise to prominence.
It is mysterious and changes with the times. Blair’s flavour of IT is 20 years out of date. Equally Corbyns flavour only came into play after 2008.
But don’t doubt for a second that he has it. He has it. You don’t motivate that many people without it. (Snip)
You're saying that his platform or message resonates post-2008. That's not the same as charisma.
.
It’s both. His passionate campaigning style coupled with his so called ‘authentic’ amateur and quiet questioning anti-establishment demeanour, fits our times well. He looks different to the polished, rehearsed, pols that are currently struggling.
Urrm, if you hadn't noticed, he is struggling.
A 'charismatic' politician would have put this to bed long ago (or, like Boris, engineered and manipulated it for his own purposes).
Is he struggling? If you believe that TV and newspaper headlines are what drives politics today, then yes.
Strange intervention by Netanyahu. If this turns into a contest between Corbyn and Netanyahu for hearts and minds there can be only one winner.
+1
The sooner this hoo-hah is off the news headlines, the better. Netanyahu's intervention will rile the British public, who doesn't like being told what to do or think by foreign leaders. It is not helpful to those groups opposed to Corbyn.
Now is the time for Corbyn to go on the offensive. Along the lines of "I will not take lessons in morality from someone who shoots dead 100 Palestinian men women and children imprisoned behind a wire"
He takes his lessons in morality from people who castrate athletes at a sports event, torture them and then murder them. But you seemingly don’t care about that, provided you can take a pop at the Israeli PM.
And you're wrong about the wreath: the wreath was laid in front of the graves of the men who committed these acts. Corbyn held the wreath and joined in the prayers. If you can be bothered to find out the facts, you can see the photos of the ceremony in front of the different memorial in another location within the cemetery to those killed in the Tunis air strike but you will not see Corbyn in any of those pictures.
@JosiasJessop has it right: this man cannot be trusted to keep British citizens safe from terrorists he supports.
If I'm wrong about the wreath it's the BBC who should be taken to task not me. It was said on radio 5 this morning that the ceremony was for those killed in an Israeli airstrike in Tunisia which had been condemned by the UN.
Whether or not it's accurate I don't know. As a rule I'd trust the BBC more than The Daily Mail but really that's not important. The point is that what followed from the Netanyahu intervention was an interview between a spokesman supplied by the Israeli embassy and a Jewish supporter of Corbyn.
What a relatively undecided listener would have learned is that Corbyn has long been a supporter of the Palestinian cause and that Israel after passing 'The Land Act' in the view of this feisty lady is now an aparteid state but if Labour accepted the IHRA definition she would not be allowed to say it.
Does he have *it*, or is it his message / platform that some find so endearing, rather than him? If Corbyn was a right-winger, would he still be seen to have charisma?
Boris certainly has it, which is why career-ending stories slide off him. He is Teflon, like Blair was. Either of those men could have supported the 'other' side and become prominent.
Corbyn's current problems indicate he doesn't have *it* - if he did, he'd be dealing with it much better. Likewise, if he had *it* then it wouldn't have taken him three decades to rise to prominence.
It is mysterious and changes with the times. Blair’s flavour of IT is 20 years out of date. Equally Corbyns flavour only came into play after 2008.
But don’t doubt for a second that he has it. He has it. You don’t motivate that many people without it. (Snip)
You're saying that his platform or message resonates post-2008. That's not the same as charisma.
.
It’s both. His passionate campaigning style coupled with his so called ‘authentic’ amateur and quiet questioning anti-establishment demeanour, fits our times well. He looks different to the polished, rehearsed, pols that are currently struggling.
Urrm, if you hadn't noticed, he is struggling.
A 'charismatic' politician would have put this to bed long ago (or, like Boris, engineered and manipulated it for his own purposes).
Is he struggling? If you believe that TV and newspaper headlines are what drives politics today, then yes.
Strange intervention by Netanyahu. If this turns into a contest between Corbyn and Netanyahu for hearts and minds there can be only one winner.
+1
The sooner this hoo-hah is off the news headlines, the better. Netanyahu's intervention will rile the British public, who doesn't like being told what to do or think by foreign leaders. It is not helpful to those groups opposed to Corbyn.
Now is the time for Corbyn to go on the offensive. Along the lines of "I will not take lessons in morality from someone who shoots dead 100 Palestinian men women and children imprisoned behind a wire"
He takes his lessons in morality from people who castrate athletes at a sports event, torture them and then murder them. But you seemingly don’t care about that, provided you can take a pop at the Israeli PM.
And you're wrong about the wreath: the wreath was laid in front of the graves of the men who committed these acts. Corbyn held the wreath and joined in the prayers. If you can be bothered to find out the facts, you can see the photos of the ceremony in front of the different memorial in another location within the cemetery to those killed in the Tunis air strike but you will not see Corbyn in any of those pictures.
@JosiasJessop has it right: this man cannot be trusted to keep British citizens safe from terrorists he supports.
If I'm wrong about the wreath it's the BBC who should be taken to task not me. It was said on radio 5 this morning that the ceremony was for those killed in an Israeli airstrike in Tunisia which had been condemned by the UN.
Whether or not it's accurate I don't know. As a rule I'd trust the BBC more than The Daily Mail but really that's not important. The point is that what followed from the Netanyahu intervention was an interview between a spokesman supplied by the Israeli embassy and a Jewish supporter of Corbyn.
What a relatively undecided listener would have learned is that Corbyn has long been a supporter of the Palestinian cause and that Israel after passing 'The Land Act' in the view of this feisty lady is now an aparteid state but if Labour accepted the IHRA definition she would not be allowed to say it.
The problem is that Corbyn himself wrote in the Morning Star in 2014 it was to honour terrorists killed by Mossad whose grave is shown in the photos. Obviously he didn’t say it quite like that but he is being hoisted by his own petard.
Does he have *it*, or is it his message / platform that some find so endearing, rather than him? If Corbyn was a right-winger, would he still be seen to have charisma?
Boris certainly has it, which is why career-ending stories slide off him. He is Teflon, like Blair was. Either of those men could have supported the 'other' side and become prominent.
Corbyn's current problems indicate he doesn't have *it* - if he did, he'd be dealing with it much better. Likewise, if he had *it* then it wouldn't have taken him three decades to rise to prominence.
It is mysterious and changes with the times. Blair’s flavour of IT is 20 years out of date. Equally Corbyns flavour only came into play after 2008.
But don’t doubt for a second that he has it. He has it. You don’t motivate that many people without it.
Boris is an interesting question. My hunch is that he has just enough left to win office, but after more than 10 years at the top, It will run out quickly.
Yes, Blair walked on water between 1994 and 2001. Even before Iraq, people were beginning to think worse of him, but Iraq accelerated the process.
Now, hardly anyone can stand him.
Undoubtably the pixie dust of charisma can fall away, as it did with Blair.
I think that both Boris and Jezza are losing it too.
The last three Lib/LD’s with it were Jo Grimond, Jeremy Thorpe, and Charles Kennedy. If they could find someone now they’d wipe the floor with the others.
Does he have *it*, or is it his message / platform that some find so endearing, rather than him? If Corbyn was a right-winger, would he still be seen to have charisma?
Boris certainly has it, which is why career-ending stories slide off him. He is Teflon, like Blair was. Either of those men could have supported the 'other' side and become prominent.
Corbyn's current problems indicate he doesn't have *it* - if he did, he'd be dealing with it much better. Likewise, if he had *it* then it wouldn't have taken him three decades to rise to prominence.
It is mysterious and changes with the times. Blair’s flavour of IT is 20 years out of date. Equally Corbyns flavour only came into play after 2008.
But don’t doubt for a second that he has it. He has it. You don’t motivate that many people without it. (Snip)
You're saying that his platform or message resonates post-2008. That's not the same as charisma.
.
It’s both. His passionate campaigning style coupled with his so called ‘authentic’ amateur and quiet questioning anti-establishment demeanour, fits our times well. He looks different to the polished, rehearsed, pols that are currently struggling.
Urrm, if you hadn't noticed, he is struggling.
A 'charismatic' politician would have put this to bed long ago (or, like Boris, engineered and manipulated it for his own purposes).
Is he struggling? If you believe that TV and newspaper headlines are what drives politics today, then yes.
But do they? His tribe seem quite happy online.
Happy is not the word I'd use. They are demonstrating that same brand of prickly mania that marks out Leave supporters online.
Strange intervention by Netanyahu. If this turns into a contest between Corbyn and Netanyahu for hearts and minds there can be only one winner.
+1
The sooner this hoo-hah is off the news headlines, the better. Netanyahu's intervention will rile the British public, who doesn't like being told what to do or think by foreign leaders. It is not helpful to those groups opposed to Corbyn.
Now is the time for Corbyn to go on the offensive. Along the lines of "I will not take lessons in morality from someone who shoots dead 100 Palestinian men women and children imprisoned behind a wire"
He takes his lessons in morality from people who castrate athletes at a sports event, torture them and then murder them. But you seemingly don’t care about that, provided you can take a pop at the Israeli PM.
And you're wrong about the wreath: the wreath was laid in front of the graves of the men who committed these acts. Corbyn held the wreath and joined in the prayers. If you can be bothered to find out the facts, you can see the photos of the ceremony in front of the different memorial in another location within the cemetery to those killed in the Tunis air strike but you will not see Corbyn in any of those pictures.
@JosiasJessop has it right: this man cannot be trusted to keep British citizens safe from terrorists he supports.
... What a relatively undecided listener would have learned is that Corbyn has long been a supporter of the Palestinian cause and that Israel after passing 'The Land Act' in the view of this feisty lady is now an aparteid state but if Labour accepted the IHRA definition she would not be allowed to say it.
That is simply not true. The IHRA definition in no way prevents trenchant criticism of the Israel and its policies.
The relevant causes are these: - Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor. - Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.
My last job was “Director of IT”, does that count?
It does count. You should go into politics. It will be amazing.
I've known awful IT managers and some superb ones (Mr Pit, of course, must be in the latter grouping). I'd argue that the superb ones would make very good politicians: they need to be able too plan complex projects, manage budgets, deal with staff and sometimes obstreperous 'users'. They need to be able to look into the future and plan requirements. They need to be able to explain and sell complex concepts to people not equipped to understand them.
And they need to be able to cope with CEOs who decide to move everyone over to Linux (because he's heard it is good and cheaper) before the end of the year (*).
Fortunately for them, they'll earn much more as a superb IT manager than they would as a politician.
(*) This did happen.
Well said, nothing more to add!
Years and years ago I worked in IT and it was the most political job I ever worked in.
Does he have *it*, or is it his message / platform that some find so endearing, rather than him? If Corbyn was a right-winger, would he still be seen to have charisma?
Boris certainly has it, which is why career-ending stories slide off him. He is Teflon, like Blair was. Either of those men could have supported the 'other' side and become prominent.
Corbyn's current problems indicate he doesn't have *it* - if he did, he'd be dealing with it much better. Likewise, if he had *it* then it wouldn't have taken him three decades to rise to prominence.
It is mysterious and changes with the times. Blair’s flavour of IT is 20 years out of date. Equally Corbyns flavour only came into play after 2008.
But don’t doubt for a second that he has it. He has it. You don’t motivate that many people without it. (Snip)
You're saying that his platform or message resonates post-2008. That's not the same as charisma.
.
It’s both. His passionate campaigning style coupled with his so called ‘authentic’ amateur and quiet questioning anti-establishment demeanour, fits our times well. He looks different to the polished, rehearsed, pols that are currently struggling.
Urrm, if you hadn't noticed, he is struggling.
A 'charismatic' politician would have put this to bed long ago (or, like Boris, engineered and manipulated it for his own purposes).
Is he struggling? If you believe that TV and newspaper headlines are what drives politics today, then yes.
But do they? His tribe seem quite happy online.
His tribe will always be happy online.
Take Boris. The talking heads and the front pages may condemn him, but the dog whistle propagates the net and gets people thinking he might be the one.
This thing might be playing badly on the surface for Corbyn, but you need to look deeper these days.
If that were not the case, Clinton would be president.
Corbyn's back story has been factored in to some extent but is still likely to lose him enough votes to prevent him ever winning an election.
If I were a Tory I would have an an ambivalent attitude to him - if he is forced out I would have thought that if they choose a successor without the baggage Labour could quite comfortably beat the Tories post-Brexit. Do PB Tories actually want him gone?
You're saying that his platform or message resonates post-2008. That's not the same as charisma.
.
It’s both. His passionate campaigning style coupled with his so called ‘authentic’ amateur and quiet questioning anti-establishment demeanour, fits our times well. He looks different to the polished, rehearsed, pols that are currently struggling.
Urrm, if you hadn't noticed, he is struggling.
A 'charismatic' politician would have put this to bed long ago (or, like Boris, engineered and manipulated it for his own purposes).
Is he struggling? If you believe that TV and newspaper headlines are what drives politics today, then yes.
But do they? His tribe seem quite happy online.
His tribe will always be happy online.
Take Boris. The talking heads and the front pages may condemn him, but the dog whistle propagates the net and gets people thinking he might be the one.
This thing might be playing badly on the surface for Corbyn, but you need to look deeper these days.
If that were not the case, Clinton would be president.
I think the Boris thing is being conflated with the Corbyn story. I don’t like either of them and hope neither end up leading our country. However Boris was unwise with words which at worst encourages some nasty behaviour. This is what happens sometimes with free speech in a free and democratic society. Similarly Corbyn has every right to disagree with policies of both our government and those abroad, but his actions honour terrorists (praying and laying a wreath) who have killed and maimed innocent victims. Surely that is a level much more serious. The claims that Corbyn is somehow a man of peace can be tested. Does he lay wreaths for Israelis?
You're saying that his platform or message resonates post-2008. That's not the same as charisma.
.
It’s both. His passionate campaigning style coupled with his so called ‘authentic’ amateur and quiet questioning anti-establishment demeanour, fits our times well. He looks different to the polished, rehearsed, pols that are currently struggling.
Urrm, if you hadn't noticed, he is struggling.
A 'charismatic' politician would have put this to bed long ago (or, like Boris, engineered and manipulated it for his own purposes).
Is he struggling? If you believe that TV and newspaper headlines are what drives politics today, then yes.
But do they? His tribe seem quite happy online.
His tribe will always be happy online.
Take Boris. The talking heads and the front pages may condemn him, but the dog whistle propagates the net and gets people thinking he might be the one.
This thing might be playing badly on the surface for Corbyn, but you need to look deeper these days.
If that were not the case, Clinton would be president.
I think the Boris thing is being conflated with the Corbyn story. I don’t like either of them and hope neither end up leading our country. However Boris was unwise with words which at worst encourages some nasty behaviour. This is what happens sometimes with free speech in a free and democratic society. Similarly Corbyn has every right to disagree with policies of both our government and those abroad, but his actions honour terrorists (praying and laying a wreath) who have killed and maimed innocent victims. Surely that is a level much more serious. The claims that Corbyn is somehow a man of peace can be tested. Does he lay wreaths for Israelis?
We have just had the 20th anniversary of the Omagh bombing. Did he lay a wreath there?
Strange intervention by Netanyahu. If this turns into a contest between Corbyn and Netanyahu for hearts and minds there can be only one winner.
+1
The sooner this hoo-hah is off the news headlines, the better. Netanyahu's intervention will rile the British public, who doesn't like being told what to do or think by foreign leaders. It is not helpful to those groups opposed to Corbyn.
Now is the time for Corbyn to go on the offensive. Along the lines of "I will not take lessons in morality from someone who shoots dead 100 Palestinian men women and children imprisoned behind a wire"
He takes his lessons in morality from people who castrate athletes at a sports event, torture them and then murder them. But you seemingly don’t care about that, provided you can take a pop at the Israeli PM.
And you're wrong about the wreath: the wreath was laid in front of the graves of the men who committed these acts. Corbyn held the wreath and joined in the prayers. If you can be bothered to find out the facts, you can see the photos of the ceremony in front of the different memorial in another location within the cemetery to those killed in the Tunis air strike but you will not see Corbyn in any of those pictures.
@JosiasJessop has it right: this man cannot be trusted to keep British citizens safe from terrorists he supports.
... What a relatively undecided listener would have learned is that Corbyn has long been a supporter of the Palestinian cause and that Israel after passing 'The Land Act' in the view of this feisty lady is now an aparteid state but if Labour accepted the IHRA definition she would not be allowed to say it.
That is simply not true. The IHRA definition in no way prevents trenchant criticism of the Israel and its policies.
The relevant causes are these: - Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor. - Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.
The aforementioned feisty lady might complain the first clause (actually an example) you quote rather begs the question. Note that it is Jewish people not Israeli citizens who are to have the right of self-determination.
My own view is that this is all very complicated and I really can't imagine a future Labour government blundering around in Middle East politics will help in any way.
If I'm wrong about the wreath it's the BBC who should be taken to task not me. ...on radio 5 this morning that the ceremony was for those killed in an Israeli airstrike in Tunisia which had been condemned by the UN.
Whether or not it's accurate I don't know. As a rule I'd trust the BBC more than The Daily Mail but really that's not important. The point is that what followed from the Netanyahu intervention was an interview between a spokesman supplied by the Israeli embassy and a Jewish supporter of Corbyn.
What a relatively undecided listener would have learned is that Corbyn has long been a supporter of the Palestinian cause and that Israel after passing 'The Land Act' in the view of this feisty lady is now an aparteid state but if Labour accepted the IHRA definition she would not be allowed to say it.
Corbyn being a supporter of the Palestinian cause is not a problem. Corbyn being a supporter of Palestinian terrorists is and holding a wreath in front of the graves of the disgusting murderers of those athletes is a sign of support. Corbyn lying about looking for peace and being prepared to talk to all sides (has anyone yet found anyone on the Israeli side Corbyn has talked to?) is a problem.
The IHRA definition does not stop anyone criticising Israel over its new law. That law is a disgrace. It does not make Israel an apartheid state, however. Israeli Arab citizens have not been deprived of their citizenship or their right to vote; they are not told only to sit on certain Arab only benches and so forth.
Using exxaggerated, untrue and hyperbolic language to criticise Israel undermines the very real and serious criticisms which can and should be made of Israel. It tends to suggest that either people have no real understanding or judgment and/or are so blinded by hatred that they will say anything and/or are deliberately using such language in order to justify a policy of removing Israel from the map.
The Israeli PM’s intervention is unhelpful. It would have been better to have said nothing at all or to invite Corbyn, using his own language, to come and talk to Israelis to advance the debate he is so apparently keen on.
But it is disturbing to find so many people supporting Labour so unwilling to condemn crimes like the Munich massacres and so willing to handwave away Corbyn’s lies and obfuscations about what he was doing. Does anybody really think that Corbyn could ever be regarded as an honest broker for peace on this issue?
Oh - and Hamas has admitted that some of those killed in Gaza were its own operatives. It does not excuse the killing of innocent children. But it is another fact which goes ignored and which shouldn’t be.
Corbyn's back story has been factored in to some extent but is still likely to lose him enough votes to prevent him ever winning an election.
If I were a Tory I would have an an ambivalent attitude to him - if he is forced out I would have thought that if they choose a successor without the baggage Labour could quite comfortably beat the Tories post-Brexit. Do PB Tories actually want him gone?
The thing that worries me (neither labour or Tory) is his fundamental unsuitability to lead. However to be perfectly honest the same applies to Boris and May.
I had a think last night and I would be willing to vote Labour with someone competent in charge, but it would need to be someone like Burnham or Cooper who was much more centre left. The Tories could also do with a leader, but they seem to have less available. I do think Javid would make a good leader, but Hammond and Hunt too nothing-y, Gove too political, perhaps there is another woman in the wings who is not crazy like Mcvey or Leadsom.
Corbyn's back story has been factored in to some extent but is still likely to lose him enough votes to prevent him ever winning an election.
If I were a Tory I would have an an ambivalent attitude to him - if he is forced out I would have thought that if they choose a successor without the baggage Labour could quite comfortably beat the Tories post-Brexit. Do PB Tories actually want him gone?
I would rather have a sensible Labour leader in power than risk the prospect of Corbyn sneaking in on the back of the general uselessness of the Tories at the moment.
Although I do admit sensible leadership prospects do seem to be thin on the ground...
0.1% increase is still better then the real wage falls we saw when immigration was at record levels.
How does that square with the report yesterday, gloated over by one or two Leavers, that employers were being forced, due to a shortage of labour to raise wage rates. Or hasn’t the effect worked through yet?
Cripes, I see some of our Conservative friends are STILL whining about Emily Thornberry tweeting a picture FOUR YEARS AGO of some inconsiderate bellend who covered his house in England flags months after the World Cup had ended. Meanwhile, those who imply Thornberry is a snob are the very same people who cast Rebecca Long-Bailey as a 'blonde barmaid'. Same hypocritical shit, different day.
Corbyn's back story has been factored in to some extent but is still likely to lose him enough votes to prevent him ever winning an election.
If I were a Tory I would have an an ambivalent attitude to him - if he is forced out I would have thought that if they choose a successor without the baggage Labour could quite comfortably beat the Tories post-Brexit. Do PB Tories actually want him gone?
I was wondering this just now. The overcooked attempts at character assassination at his possible successors suggest not.
I watched a few minutes of that, and felt it was rather unhelpful timing for Corbyn, and especially some of his friends who often tend to deny such events.
Strange intervention by Netanyahu. If this turns into a contest between Corbyn and Netanyahu for hearts and minds there can be only one winner.
+1
The sooner this hoo-hah is off the news headlines, the better. Netanyahu's intervention will rile the British public, who doesn't like being told what to do or think by foreign leaders. It is not helpful to those groups opposed to Corbyn.
Now is the time for Corbyn to go on the offensive. Along the lines of "I will not take lessons in morality from someone who shoots dead 100 Palestinian men women and children imprisoned behind a wire"
He takes his lessons in morality from people who castrate athletes at a sports event, torture them and then murder them. But you seemingly don’t care about that, provided you can take a pop at the Israeli PM.
@JosiasJessop has it right: this man cannot be trusted to keep British citizens safe from terrorists he supports.
... What a relatively undecided listener would have learned is that Corbyn has long been a supporter of the Palestinian cause and that Israel after passing 'The Land Act' in the view of this feisty lady is now an aparteid state but if Labour accepted the IHRA definition she would not be allowed to say it.
That is simply not true. The IHRA definition in no way prevents trenchant criticism of the Israel and its policies.
The relevant causes are these: - Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor. - Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.
The aforementioned feisty lady might complain the first clause (actually an example) you quote rather begs the question. Note that it is Jewish people not Israeli citizens who are to have the right of self-determination.
My own view is that this is all very complicated and I really can't imagine a future Labour government blundering around in Middle East politics will help in any way.
The best thing a British Government can do about the Middle East in general and Israel in particular is keep well out of it. I don’t think we’ve done anything useful there since the Battle of the Nile when Nelson’s victory kept French noses out. For a while anyway. Apart possibly from El Alamein, which kept the Nazis out. Although they probably wouldn’t have bothered about it if we hadn’t been bothering about it first!
Corbyn's back story has been factored in to some extent but is still likely to lose him enough votes to prevent him ever winning an election.
If I were a Tory I would have an an ambivalent attitude to him - if he is forced out I would have thought that if they choose a successor without the baggage Labour could quite comfortably beat the Tories post-Brexit. Do PB Tories actually want him gone?
Whatever one’s political leanings, having a Labour leader with some sense of morality would be good for our politics. Corbyn as PM would be a moral disaster for the country, in the same way as he is being for Labour.
My last job was “Director of IT”, does that count?
It does count. You should go into politics. It will be amazing.
I've known awful IT managers and some superb ones (Mr Pit, of course, must be in the latter grouping). I'd argue that the superb ones would make very good politicians: they need to be able too plan complex projects, manage budgets, deal with staff and sometimes obstreperous 'users'. They need to be able to look into the future and plan requirements. They need to be able to explain and sell complex concepts to people not equipped to understand them.
And they need to be able to cope with CEOs who decide to move everyone over to Linux (because he's heard it is good and cheaper) before the end of the year (*).
Fortunately for them, they'll earn much more as a superb IT manager than they would as a politician.
(*) This did happen.
Well said, nothing more to add!
Years and years ago I worked in IT and it was the most political job I ever worked in.
Yes, it can be insanely political in some companies. Mostly due to C-levels who think they understand IT becuase their kids showed them how to use an iPad, think that a 1TB file server costs £50 because that’s what PC World sells, think that all the security policies we spent months designing at their request shouldn’t apply to themselves, and the newly released “device” they bought over the weekend needs to be set up today with no testing - but obviously it’ll be our fault if there’s any problems with it.
Don't worry. Diane Abbott will sort it all out. She's still Right On. But doesn't have the baggage of attending PLO/IRA funerals. Doesn't have the baggage of being a Man. Or being White. But isn't a headbanger having sent her sprog to a posh school to chase personal aspiration. Isn't as shrill and hectoring as too many female politicians are.
Bloody hell, unemployment down to 4.0%, still no signs of significant wage rises coming though. It's a real conundrum.
Hopeless incompetent government, Vote Labour!
I had a think about the conundrum between our very strong economic performance and the fact Labour are slightly ahead in the polls. I came to the conclusion the Gov't is just utterly dire at putting over the good economic news and manages to get sidetracked in trivia that ultimately doesn't matter much but harms them anyway. It also points to the fact that the battle over Brexit is primarily cultural rather than economic.
It was very moving in parts. Interesting seeing how many of the young male Holocaust survivors falsified their ages (21 years > 15 years in Rinder's grandad's case) to reach sanctuary in Britain in 1945.
Does he have *it*, or is it his message / platform that some find so endearing, rather than him? If Corbyn was a right-winger, would he still be seen to have charisma?
Boris certainly has it, which is why career-ending stories slide off him. He is Teflon, like Blair was. Either of those men could have supported the 'other' side and become prominent.
Corbyn's current problems indicate he doesn't have *it* - if he did, he'd be dealing with it much better. Likewise, if he had *it* then it wouldn't have taken him three decades to rise to prominence.
It is mysterious and changes with the times. Blair’s flavour of IT is 20 years out of date. Equally Corbyns flavour only came into play after 2008.
But don’t doubt for a second that he has it. He has it. You don’t motivate that many people without it. (Snip)
You're saying that his platform or message resonates post-2008. That's not the same as charisma.
.
It’s both. His passionate campaigning style coupled with his so called ‘authentic’ amateur and quiet questioning anti-establishment demeanour, fits our times well. He looks different to the polished, rehearsed, pols that are currently struggling.
Urrm, if you hadn't noticed, he is struggling.
A 'charismatic' politician would have put this to bed long ago (or, like Boris, engineered and manipulated it for his own purposes).
Is he struggling? If you believe that TV and newspaper headlines are what drives politics today, then yes.
But do they? His tribe seem quite happy online.
His tribe will always be happy online.
Take Boris. The talking heads and the front pages may condemn him, but the dog whistle propagates the net and gets people thinking he might be the one.
This thing might be playing badly on the surface for Corbyn, but you need to look deeper these days.
If that were not the case, Clinton would be president.
There is a possible (even likely?) outcome that doesn't get enough discussion on here. Corbyn as PM in a Lib/Lab/SNP pact. This would be a firmly centre-left administration, the Labour moderates and the Liberals would see to that.
Don't worry. Diane Abbott will sort it all out. She's still Right On. But doesn't have the baggage of attending PLO/IRA funerals. Doesn't have the baggage of being a Man. Or being White. But isn't a headbanger having sent her sprog to a posh school to chase personal aspiration. Isn't as shrill and hectoring as too many female politicians are.
Diane Abbott. Did you catch the name? Abbott.
I did tip her at 100/1 to be Corbyn's successor.
Abbott's had a good 2018, she saw the resignation of Amber Rudd.
Mr. Pulpstar, May and Hammond have been utterly dreadful at putting forward the economic case for their actions, and trumpeting what successes they have.
Cameron and Osborne were an order of magnitude more competent, and their recent example should've served as an obvious lesson.
Don't worry. Diane Abbott will sort it all out. She's still Right On. But doesn't have the baggage of attending PLO/IRA funerals. Doesn't have the baggage of being a Man. Or being White. But isn't a headbanger having sent her sprog to a posh school to chase personal aspiration. Isn't as shrill and hectoring as too many female politicians are.
You probably missed my question to you the other day after your great post on why, at least at the local level, you are able to get on with the job of providing Labour-inspired policies to the people who need them without paying heed to what is happening in the leadership.
I asked how, under such circumstances, you could look whatever Jewish local residents you may have in the eye as you deliver these "true" Labour services, given what is happening up top in the party? Or is it a question of omelettes, eggs, etc?
Don't worry. Diane Abbott will sort it all out. She's still Right On. But doesn't have the baggage of attending PLO/IRA funerals. Doesn't have the baggage of being a Man. Or being White. But isn't a headbanger having sent her sprog to a posh school to chase personal aspiration. Isn't as shrill and hectoring as too many female politicians are.
Diane Abbott. Did you catch the name? Abbott.
If you are happy with a another leader with a racist backstory ...
And, yes, it is possible for a black person to be racist
It was very moving in parts. Interesting seeing how many of the young male Holocaust survivors falsified their ages (21 years > 15 years in Rinder's grandad's case) to reach sanctuary in Britain in 1945.
Remaining to face life under a regime imposed by The Red Army appeared to be less attractive given the brutality of war in Eastern Europe.
Don't worry. Diane Abbott will sort it all out. She's still Right On. But doesn't have the baggage of attending PLO/IRA funerals. Doesn't have the baggage of being a Man. Or being White. But isn't a headbanger having sent her sprog to a posh school to chase personal aspiration. Isn't as shrill and hectoring as too many female politicians are.
Diane Abbott. Did you catch the name? Abbott.
I did tip her at 100/1 to be Corbyn's successor.
Abbott's had a good 2018, she saw the resignation of Amber Rudd.
Well if she puts a quid on herself at those odds and she succeeds, she'll win a million won't she? Or a thousand? Or 40p? Or something like that?
Don't worry. Diane Abbott will sort it all out. She's still Right On. But doesn't have the baggage of attending PLO/IRA funerals. Doesn't have the baggage of being a Man. Or being White. But isn't a headbanger having sent her sprog to a posh school to chase personal aspiration. Isn't as shrill and hectoring as too many female politicians are.
Don't worry. Diane Abbott will sort it all out. She's still Right On. But doesn't have the baggage of attending PLO/IRA funerals. Doesn't have the baggage of being a Man. Or being White. But isn't a headbanger having sent her sprog to a posh school to chase personal aspiration. Isn't as shrill and hectoring as too many female politicians are.
Diane Abbott. Did you catch the name? Abbott.
I did tip her at 100/1 to be Corbyn's successor.
Abbott's had a good 2018, she saw the resignation of Amber Rudd.
I know you did - I've been banging on about her prospects for a while. On a sane planet at sane times she would be about as likely a leader as your good self. But here and now, with Kali Ma activists insisting Corbyn wasn't there even after Corbyn said "I was there", you have to ask what they will do if He decided to spend more time on his allotment.
The number 1 task will be to continue His mission. Most MPs can't be trusted. The Unions can't be trusted. Even Lansman can't be trusted. I keep reading that suggestions that Corbyn policies could continue without Him is a "right wing smear".
So it needs to be someone who has been on the Corbyn project from the get go. Someone who has very literally surrounded him. That she's a Black Woman just scores bonus points that class traitor shrill white woman Thornberry can't ever hope for.
It can't be Abbott. It shouldn't be Abbott. It's unthinkable that it might be Abbott.
But Jeremy is Her Majesty's Leader of the Opposition...
Comments
Option 1 is that is was all a smear. The right-wing press/media are all totally biased. Only the Morning Star tells the truth.
Option 2 is that he is well-meaning but feeble minded.
Option 3 is that he is firm opponent of western values, or a fascist conspiracy as he prefers to call it.
My view is that it's a mixture of 2 and 3, but then I've never been a fan.
The media are clearly being unfair by using photographs for which Corbyn posed and videos of Corbyn speaking to undermine Corbyn's position. The bounders.
https://twitter.com/BBCTravelAlert/status/1029267578391339014
And you're wrong about the wreath: the wreath was laid in front of the graves of the men who committed these acts. Corbyn held the wreath and joined in the prayers. If you can be bothered to find out the facts, you can see the photos of the ceremony in front of the different memorial in another location within the cemetery to those killed in the Tunis air strike but you will not see Corbyn in any of those pictures.
@JosiasJessop has it right: this man cannot be trusted to keep British citizens safe from terrorists he supports.
What a nice thought.
Also, Corbyn wildly exceeded expectations both in terms of campaigning and the end result he achieved.
Boris certainly has it, which is why career-ending stories slide off him. He is Teflon, like Blair was. Either of those men could have supported the 'other' side and become prominent.
Corbyn's current problems indicate he doesn't have *it* - if he did, he'd be dealing with it much better. Likewise, if he had *it* then it wouldn't have taken him three decades to rise to prominence.
Corbyn lost, because despite polling over 40%, May polled a higher percentage.
But don’t doubt for a second that he has it. He has it. You don’t motivate that many people without it.
Boris is an interesting question. My hunch is that he has just enough left to win office, but after more than 10 years at the top, It will run out quickly.
Corbyn has a loyal following, but overall, his ratings are terrible for an Opposition leader.
His platform is motivating people. A very noisy majority held their noses as they voted for a Blairite party whilst wanting a hard-left one. Now they see someone who is offering them that platform, and they are eager to support it. That's very different to charisma.
It's an important distinction IMO: it means that if Corbyn is brought down by this or something else, his supporters will be easily able to move onto whoever replaces him with that platform - their cause is on much shakier ground if it is true charisma, as that is non-transferable.
May has locked in Corbyn by calling the 2017 election. But she has also locked in place somebody her Party has beaten once...whilst punching itself in the face under the worst leader in decades.
And they need to be able to cope with CEOs who decide to move everyone over to Linux (because he's heard it is good and cheaper) before the end of the year (*).
Fortunately for them, they'll earn much more as a superb IT manager than they would as a politician.
(*) This did happen.
Interesting that of course there usually are secondary attacks with vehicle borne attacks such as these, in the shape of people jumping out of the car with eg knives. That this didn't happen is interesting.
Now, hardly anyone can stand him.
As mentioned, that there was no subsequent cold weapon attack is a departure from the recent terrorist MO. We shall see what that means.
I think that both Boris and Jezza are losing it too.
Now, the location of today's incident would make it rather a large coincidence, but it should be borne in mind.
On another point: might the 'smoke' seen be the powder emitted when airbags are deployed (AIUI, talcum powder used to prevent the fabric sticking)?
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/oct/07/car-hits-pedestrians-outside-natural-history-museum
A 'charismatic' politician would have put this to bed long ago (or, like Boris, engineered and manipulated it for his own purposes).
We are truly learning what cult based politics looks like.
On the other side of the spectrum it seems Trump really could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and not lose any votes such is the power of a leader when he has his followers in a trance.
But do they? His tribe seem quite happy online.
Whether or not it's accurate I don't know. As a rule I'd trust the BBC more than The Daily Mail but really that's not important. The point is that what followed from the Netanyahu intervention was an interview between a spokesman supplied by the Israeli embassy and a Jewish supporter of Corbyn.
What a relatively undecided listener would have learned is that Corbyn has long been a supporter of the Palestinian cause and that Israel after passing 'The Land Act' in the view of this feisty lady is now an aparteid state but if Labour accepted the IHRA definition she would not be allowed to say it.
Lord Sheikh was in Tunisia at the same time, and declared flights and accommodation paid for by the Tunisian government.
https://www.theredroar.com/2018/08/corbyn-didnt-declare-wreath-laying-trip-to-tunisia/
The IHRA definition in no way prevents trenchant criticism of the Israel and its policies.
The relevant causes are these:
- Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.
- Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.
This thing might be playing badly on the surface for Corbyn, but you need to look deeper these days.
If that were not the case, Clinton would be president.
If I were a Tory I would have an an ambivalent attitude to him - if he is forced out I would have thought that if they choose a successor without the baggage Labour could quite comfortably beat the Tories post-Brexit. Do PB Tories actually want him gone?
Not that pb regulars are completely out of touch but last night's Who Do You Think You Are? with Judge Rinder featured the Holocaust quite heavily so probably has raised awareness of the issue among the wider population and not just partisans.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0bg638n/who-do-you-think-you-are-series-15-7-robert-rinder
https://twitter.com/georgeeaton/status/1029286728304128000
https://twitter.com/?lang=en-gb
My own view is that this is all very complicated and I really can't imagine a future Labour government blundering around in Middle East politics will help in any way.
So long as Labour aren’t allowed to take a wrecking ball to the public finances again...
The IHRA definition does not stop anyone criticising Israel over its new law. That law is a disgrace. It does not make Israel an apartheid state, however. Israeli Arab citizens have not been deprived of their citizenship or their right to vote; they are not told only to sit on certain Arab only benches and so forth.
Using exxaggerated, untrue and hyperbolic language to criticise Israel undermines the very real and serious criticisms which can and should be made of Israel. It tends to suggest that either people have no real understanding or judgment and/or are so blinded by hatred that they will say anything and/or are deliberately using such language in order to justify a policy of removing Israel from the map.
The Israeli PM’s intervention is unhelpful. It would have been better to have said nothing at all or to invite Corbyn, using his own language, to come and talk to Israelis to advance the debate he is so apparently keen on.
But it is disturbing to find so many people supporting Labour so unwilling to condemn crimes like the Munich massacres and so willing to handwave away Corbyn’s lies and obfuscations about what he was doing. Does anybody really think that Corbyn could ever be regarded as an honest broker for peace on this issue?
Oh - and Hamas has admitted that some of those killed in Gaza were its own operatives. It does not excuse the killing of innocent children. But it is another fact which goes ignored and which shouldn’t be.
https://twitter.com/ONS/status/1029287693975465985
I had a think last night and I would be willing to vote Labour with someone competent in charge, but it would need to be someone like Burnham or Cooper who was much more centre left. The Tories could also do with a leader, but they seem to have less available. I do think Javid would make a good leader, but Hammond and Hunt too nothing-y, Gove too political, perhaps there is another woman in the wings who is not crazy like Mcvey or Leadsom.
Don’t get me started on Vince Cable either!
Although I do admit sensible leadership prospects do seem to be thin on the ground...
https://twitter.com/amoscam/status/1028962821931847680?s=21
The death grip Lab and Cons have on each other continues. Who will survive the descent into the Reichenbach Falls?
Apart possibly from El Alamein, which kept the Nazis out. Although they probably wouldn’t have bothered about it if we hadn’t been bothering about it first!
Diane Abbott. Did you catch the name? Abbott.
I came to the conclusion the Gov't is just utterly dire at putting over the good economic news and manages to get sidetracked in trivia that ultimately doesn't matter much but harms them anyway. It also points to the fact that the battle over Brexit is primarily cultural rather than economic.
Abbott's had a good 2018, she saw the resignation of Amber Rudd.
Cameron and Osborne were an order of magnitude more competent, and their recent example should've served as an obvious lesson.
You probably missed my question to you the other day after your great post on why, at least at the local level, you are able to get on with the job of providing Labour-inspired policies to the people who need them without paying heed to what is happening in the leadership.
I asked how, under such circumstances, you could look whatever Jewish local residents you may have in the eye as you deliver these "true" Labour services, given what is happening up top in the party? Or is it a question of omelettes, eggs, etc?
And, yes, it is possible for a black person to be racist
But it was an incredibly moving programme.
NEW THREAD
The number 1 task will be to continue His mission. Most MPs can't be trusted. The Unions can't be trusted. Even Lansman can't be trusted. I keep reading that suggestions that Corbyn policies could continue without Him is a "right wing smear".
So it needs to be someone who has been on the Corbyn project from the get go. Someone who has very literally surrounded him. That she's a Black Woman just scores bonus points that class traitor shrill white woman Thornberry can't ever hope for.
It can't be Abbott. It shouldn't be Abbott. It's unthinkable that it might be Abbott.
But Jeremy is Her Majesty's Leader of the Opposition...