I am no great fan of Boris, but when we have a Conservative Prime Minister who thinks introducing racial pay audits are a good idea, a Conservative Home Secretary who has rolled over to the immigration lobby in no time at all, and a Conservative Party chairman who wants gender quotas for the candidates’ list, it’s no surprise that people are starting to think the unthinkable.
By and large, we did not join the Conservative Party to deliver the policies of Blair or Miliband.
I'm actually surprised you're surprised. May is an interventionist Conservative, pure and simple. Her mentor isn't Thatcher but Heseltine - the State and the law will be used as often as possible to force change.
The laissez-faire tax cutting small state Conservatives have been as expunged as the Blairites in Labour but none of the Tories seem to have noticed.
Once Osborne went his slashing spending as a percentage of GDP to just 35% went with him
Making a sandwich is not rocket science. It's similar to the argument that we need to bring in loads of curry chefs from Bangladesh. Anyone can make a curry.
Looks like Chris Williamson has finally overstepped the mark and endorsed a comment which is antisemitic even under Labours in-house definition. #popcorn
I agree with the header. T. May has made many blunders in both tactics and strategy but I do believe she is genuinely trying to achieve a Brexit that the majority can live with. She may well yet fail but if BJ were to become the leader it would be disastrous for the party and calamitous for the country. I believe Corbyn would be worse but Corbyn would almost certainly win against Johnson despite HYUFD's heroic polling interpretations.
Maybe her cunning plan from the beginning was to wait until Boris discredited himself by confusing being FS with FFS, then forcing him out and staying in power by using him to concentrate the minds of her colleagues? It is clear from yesterday's media interviews that dislike of Boris runs wide and deep, amongst the people who will decide his future, HY's polls notwithstanding
Boris unites the right behind him as Corbyn unites the left behind him
Boris has managed to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat on this. I think the public are broadly supportive of his comments and the huge over reaction from usual suspects as well as whatever idiotic Met investigation is going to help him win supporters. Boris said nothing unreasonable.
I’m not sure about that, but there’s clearly a number of different viewpoints on the subject within the party.
What’s more annoying is that Conservatives piling in on both sides of the argument are taking a leaf out of Jeremy Corbyn’s manual on how to keep a silly season story running unnecessarily.
Nothing would annoy Boris more than to be ignored, it’s the best thing we can do with him.
Looks like Chris Williamson has finally overstepped the mark and endorsed a comment which is antisemitic even under Labours in-house definition. #popcorn
I agree with the header. T. May has made many blunders in both tactics and strategy but I do believe she is genuinely trying to achieve a Brexit that the majority can live with. She may well yet fail but if BJ were to become the leader it would be disastrous for the party and calamitous for the country. I believe Corbyn would be worse but Corbyn would almost certainly win against Johnson despite HYUFD's heroic polling interpretations.
Maybe her cunning plan from the beginning was to wait until Boris discredited himself by confusing being FS with FFS, then forcing him out and staying in power by using him to concentrate the minds of her colleagues? It is clear from yesterday's media interviews that dislike of Boris runs wide and deep, amongst the people who will decide his future, HY's polls notwithstanding
Boris unites the right behind him as Corbyn unites the left behind him
Far left and far right, maybe. The middle (most people) are turned off by both of them.
Judge directs jury to acquit Ryan Hale. Not great news for Stokes, I fear.
That is very surprising indeed given what had been stated about Hale's actions. This case has had more twists and turns than the original twisty, turny thing.
Boris has managed to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat on this. I think the public are broadly supportive of his comments and the huge over reaction from usual suspects as well as whatever idiotic Met investigation is going to help him win supporters. Boris said nothing unreasonable.
I’m not sure about that, but there’s clearly a number of different viewpoints on the subject within the party.
What’s more annoying is that Conservatives piling in on both sides of the argument are taking a leaf out of Jeremy Corbyn’s manual on how to keep a silly season story running unnecessarily.
Nothing would annoy Boris more than to be ignored, it’s the best thing we can do with him.
Indeed, he's an attention seeker and all of this rubbish is just giving him a spotlight. Instead the party should have said "well it's Boris, nothing new there" and moved on. Using phrases like "vile comments" for something so milquetoast has definitely helped Boris prove his point.
That article confidently debunks Boris's assertion that Churchill coined the phrase "iron curtain"
"Churchill did not, as Boris claims, invent the term “Iron Curtain” to describe the barrier between Soviet-dominated Europe and western Europe. It was first used by the Nazis – above all, by their propaganda minister Joseph Goebbels. "
So this supposedly brilliant debunking of Boris's "error strewn" biography makes a howling error of its own, in the very first paragraph. I shall not bother to read any more.
Are we seeing the birth of your next 'strong man of the right' crush?
No. I think Boris might just be the least worst option out of many dreadful options. He is certainly no Churchill (let alone a d'Annunzio!). I can't see anyone else on the right, with the possible exception of Javid, who has started OK as Home Sec.
The left, under Corbyn, is simply a lost cause.
I agree that the spirit of the times forces folk of all political persuasions to look at least worst options. However I think 'Dances With Dangerous Tropes' Boris as best of a bad lot is a considerably higher stake than some weedy, centrist Blair clone.
Personally I think it would be funny if Boris became PM.
The permanently offended chattering classes would give collective birth to a giant pineapple. It's about time someone willing to speak his mind wrenched back the controls so we can all freely piss one another off again in a nihilistic, bonkers new liberal world.
I think taking the piss out of religion is a GREAT thing, and should be encouraged.
I think the burqa and niqab are unnecessary, impractical things* but I would never ban them. Instead I would love to see Muslim women liberated. When the reformation of Islam happens it will be driven by liberated, free-spirited, strong Muslim women. We should encourage them to break free and stop listening to the hand-wringing weaklings who are so fearful of giving offence to people who believe in some organised superstition.
*I bet the vast, vast majority of people in the Western World don't like either the burqa or niqab.
I think Boris made some stupid and cynical and offensive comments. I think this is an overreaction from the Tories, but they were boxed into a corner by their lambasting of Labour's poor response to the antisemitism issue. Not acting would have given Labour a get-out-of-jail-free card forever more.
It's also absolutely stupid in terms of splitting the party. The grassroots clearly support Boris on this, as does the wider public. The Tory party is led by utter idiots. Just let the story die.
Also, for that PB-er asking (uniondivvie, Scott P?) whether they know any UK women who are forced to wear the veil/niqab against their will, see here:
Boris has managed to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat on this. I think the public are broadly supportive of his comments and the huge over reaction from usual suspects as well as whatever idiotic Met investigation is going to help him win supporters. Boris said nothing unreasonable.
Source?
I said "I think" for a reason. Hopefully we get something from YouGov on it.
We have SkyData
More this he should NOT apologise than think he should
"There is a stark contrast by age on these issues - 18 to 34-year-olds think Mr Johnson should apologise by 58% to 37%, while those aged 55 and older think he should not by 58% to 31%."
How many Tory members are over 55? All of them? Tory members and activists are therefore, by definition, massively favouring Boris on this issue. They don't want him to apologise.
The party is about to anger and alienate even more of its dwindling membership. And a Boris premiership looms closer.
Boris has managed to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat on this. I think the public are broadly supportive of his comments and the huge over reaction from usual suspects as well as whatever idiotic Met investigation is going to help him win supporters. Boris said nothing unreasonable.
Source?
I said "I think" for a reason. Hopefully we get something from YouGov on it.
We have SkyData
More this he should NOT apologise than think he should
"There is a stark contrast by age on these issues - 18 to 34-year-olds think Mr Johnson should apologise by 58% to 37%, while those aged 55 and older think he should not by 58% to 31%."
How many Tory members are over 55? All of them? Tory members and activists are therefore, by definition, massively favouring Boris on this issue. They don't want him to apologise.
The party is about to anger and alienate even more of its dwindling membership. And a Boris premiership looms closer.
Is that a voodoo or scientific poll?
I don't know much about Sky Data polls, but the results are similar to those of YouGov.
Boris has managed to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat on this. I think the public are broadly supportive of his comments and the huge over reaction from usual suspects as well as whatever idiotic Met investigation is going to help him win supporters. Boris said nothing unreasonable.
I’m not sure about that, but there’s clearly a number of different viewpoints on the subject within the party.
What’s more annoying is that Conservatives piling in on both sides of the argument are taking a leaf out of Jeremy Corbyn’s manual on how to keep a silly season story running unnecessarily.
Nothing would annoy Boris more than to be ignored, it’s the best thing we can do with him.
Indeed, he's an attention seeker and all of this rubbish is just giving him a spotlight. Instead the party should have said "well it's Boris, nothing new there" and moved on. Using phrases like "vile comments" for something so milquetoast has definitely helped Boris prove his point.
Now Brandon Lewis (and Tim Montgomerie, and Guido) all piling in too. They obviously think they can sink Boris once and for all, but it’s neither the time not the issue, especially when we could have been collectively causing more trouble for Corbyn over his party full of racists.
Boris has managed to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat on this. I think the public are broadly supportive of his comments and the huge over reaction from usual suspects as well as whatever idiotic Met investigation is going to help him win supporters. Boris said nothing unreasonable.
Source?
I said "I think" for a reason. Hopefully we get something from YouGov on it.
We have SkyData
More this he should NOT apologise than think he should
"There is a stark contrast by age on these issues - 18 to 34-year-olds think Mr Johnson should apologise by 58% to 37%, while those aged 55 and older think he should not by 58% to 31%."
How many Tory members are over 55? All of them? Tory members and activists are therefore, by definition, massively favouring Boris on this issue. They don't want him to apologise.
The party is about to anger and alienate even more of its dwindling membership. And a Boris premiership looms closer.
Yes but the Tories only ask their members at the end, and often not at all. The electorate Boris must face next is Conservative MPs if he wants to be Prime Minister and not leader of UKIP for three months till Nigel gets bored again.
I agree with the header. T. May has made many blunders in both tactics and strategy but I do believe she is genuinely trying to achieve a Brexit that the majority can live with. She may well yet fail but if BJ were to become the leader it would be disastrous for the party and calamitous for the country. I believe Corbyn would be worse but Corbyn would almost certainly win against Johnson despite HYUFD's heroic polling interpretations.
Maybe her cunning plan from the beginning was to wait until Boris discredited himself by confusing being FS with FFS, then forcing him out and staying in power by using him to concentrate the minds of her colleagues? It is clear from yesterday's media interviews that dislike of Boris runs wide and deep, amongst the people who will decide his future, HY's polls notwithstanding
Boris unites the right behind him as Corbyn unites the left behind him
Far left and far right, maybe. The middle (most people) are turned off by both of them.
76% of voters would vote for either a Boris led Tories or Corbyn led Labour with yougov leaving just 24% dyed in the wool PC liberal centrists
Now Brandon Lewis (and Tim Montgomerie, and Guido) all piling in too. They obviously think they can sink Boris once and for all, but it’s neither the time not the issue, especially when we could have been collectively causing more trouble for Corbyn over his party full of racists.
I agree with the header. T. May has made many blunders in both tactics and strategy but I do believe she is genuinely trying to achieve a Brexit that the majority can live with. She may well yet fail but if BJ were to become the leader it would be disastrous for the party and calamitous for the country. I believe Corbyn would be worse but Corbyn would almost certainly win against Johnson despite HYUFD's heroic polling interpretations.
Maybe her cunning plan from the beginning was to wait until Boris discredited himself by confusing being FS with FFS, then forcing him out and staying in power by using him to concentrate the minds of her colleagues? It is clear from yesterday's media interviews that dislike of Boris runs wide and deep, amongst the people who will decide his future, HY's polls notwithstanding
Boris unites the right behind him as Corbyn unites the left behind him
Far left and far right, maybe. The middle (most people) are turned off by both of them.
76% of voters would vote for either a Boris led Tories or Corbyn led Labour leaving just 24% dyed in the wool PC liberal centrists
Voting for Boris to stop Corbyn and vice versa is a looooooong way from liking them.
I agree with the header. T. May has made many blunders in both tactics and strategy but I do believe she is genuinely trying to achieve a Brexit that the majority can live with. She may well yet fail but if BJ were to become the leader it would be disastrous for the party and calamitous for the country. I believe Corbyn would be worse but Corbyn would almost certainly win against Johnson despite HYUFD's heroic polling interpretations.
Maybe her cunning plan from the beginning was to wait until Boris discredited himself by confusing being FS with FFS, then forcing him out and staying in power by using him to concentrate the minds of her colleagues? It is clear from yesterday's media interviews that dislike of Boris runs wide and deep, amongst the people who will decide his future, HY's polls notwithstanding
Boris unites the right behind him as Corbyn unites the left behind him
Far left and far right, maybe. The middle (most people) are turned off by both of them.
76% of voters would vote for either a Boris led Tories or Corbyn led Labour leaving just 24% dyed in the wool PC liberal centrists
Voting for Boris to stop Corbyn and vice versa is a looooooong way from liking them.
Up to a point.
I think that most Labour voters want a party that's more left wing than in the Blair/Brown years, and most Conservative voters want a party that's more right wing than under Major or Cameron.
I'm not sure I agree with the premise of the thread. To guarantee getting to the final 2, a leadership contender needs to get a third of MPs+1 in the final ballot (currently 106). Does he have anywhere near that level of support? I would say unlikely. Therefore the Cons could have a leaadership election and make sure Boris doesn't reach the final 2.
The merits of the issue do not really matter, it's the insults. Ken Livingstone had to leave Labour because he became seen as an antisemitic boor, not because of any great historical debate on Hitler's pre-1935 views about Palestine. Similarly Boris might be right or wrong about burqas but jibes about bank robbers make him (and by extension the Conservative Party) sound Islamophobic and racist.
And sure there are people grabbing this as any stick to beat Boris with, just as there are Conservatives with no interest in Middle East politics gleefully using the ammunition the Corbynites leave lying around. That's politics.
It's also absolutely stupid in terms of splitting the party. The grassroots clearly support Boris on this, as does the wider public. The Tory party is led by utter idiots. Just let the story die.
Also, for that PB-er asking (uniondivvie, Scott P?) whether they know any UK women who are forced to wear the veil/niqab against their will, see here:
I asked 'do you know', not 'do you know of'. Though maybe you're well acquainted with Ms بنت حيي, shared a few pints down the Sir Richard Steele perhaps?
I'm not sure I agree with the premise of the thread. To guarantee getting to the final 2, a leadership contender needs to get a third of MPs+1 in the final ballot (currently 106). Does he have anywhere near that level of support? I would say unlikely. Therefore the Cons could have a leaadership election and make sure Boris doesn't reach the final 2.
I'm not sure I agree with the premise of the thread. To guarantee getting to the final 2, a leadership contender needs to get a third of MPs+1 in the final ballot (currently 106). Does he have anywhere near that level of support? I would say unlikely. Therefore the Cons could have a leaadership election and make sure Boris doesn't reach the final 2.
Even Leadsom and IDS got to the final 2
By not being someone else. That logic doesn't work for a frontrunner.
I agree with the header. T. May has made many blunders in both tactics and strategy but I do believe she is genuinely trying to achieve a Brexit that the majority can live with. She may well yet fail but if BJ were to become the leader it would be disastrous for the party and calamitous for the country. I believe Corbyn would be worse but Corbyn would almost certainly win against Johnson despite HYUFD's heroic polling interpretations.
Maybe her cunning plan from the beginning was to wait until Boris discredited himself by confusing being FS with FFS, then forcing him out and staying in power by using him to concentrate the minds of her colleagues? It is clear from yesterday's media interviews that dislike of Boris runs wide and deep, amongst the people who will decide his future, HY's polls notwithstanding
Boris unites the right behind him as Corbyn unites the left behind him
Far left and far right, maybe. The middle (most people) are turned off by both of them.
76% of voters would vote for either a Boris led Tories or Corbyn led Labour with yougov leaving just 24% dyed in the wool PC liberal centrists
Now Brandon Lewis (and Tim Montgomerie, and Guido) all piling in too. They obviously think they can sink Boris once and for all, but it’s neither the time not the issue, especially when we could have been collectively causing more trouble for Corbyn over his party full of racists.
Guido and Montgomerie are supportive of Boris!
Indeed, but they’re all keeping the story running. Brandon Lewis is probably today’s most guilty party though, just ensuring another day of headlines.
It's also absolutely stupid in terms of splitting the party. The grassroots clearly support Boris on this, as does the wider public. The Tory party is led by utter idiots. Just let the story die.
Also, for that PB-er asking (uniondivvie, Scott P?) whether they know any UK women who are forced to wear the veil/niqab against their will, see here:
I asked 'do you know', not 'do you know of'. Though maybe you're well acquainted with Ms بنت حيي, shared a few pints down the Sir Richard Steele perhaps?
FFS.
Indeed. In their haste to signal their virtue about not being Islamophobic or whatever, these chumps have forgotten about the women who live in these oppressive circumstances under complete domination by male family members, often abused and forced into marriage by them also. But, hey, Boris said that the burka looks like a letterbox, lets all get angry at him instead!
It's also absolutely stupid in terms of splitting the party. The grassroots clearly support Boris on this, as does the wider public. The Tory party is led by utter idiots. Just let the story die.
Also, for that PB-er asking (uniondivvie, Scott P?) whether they know any UK women who are forced to wear the veil/niqab against their will, see here:
I asked 'do you know', not 'do you know of'. Though maybe you're well acquainted with Ms بنت حيي, shared a few pints down the Sir Richard Steele perhaps?
FFS.
Indeed. In their haste to signal their virtue about not being Islamophobic or whatever, these chumps have forgotten about the women who live in these oppressive circumstances under complete domination by male family members, often abused and forced into marriage by them also. But, hey, Boris said that the burka looks like a letterbox, lets all get angry at him instead!
I'll campaign for friends, vote for them in preference to Labour, but I'm not remotely tempted to rejoin the Conservatives.
I'm not sure I agree with the premise of the thread. To guarantee getting to the final 2, a leadership contender needs to get a third of MPs+1 in the final ballot (currently 106). Does he have anywhere near that level of support? I would say unlikely. Therefore the Cons could have a leaadership election and make sure Boris doesn't reach the final 2.
You're unlikely to need 1/3 + 1 in practice. The leading candidate is likely to get considerably more than that benchmark. The second candidate only needs to get more than half of the rest.
So if the leading candidate gets 150 MPs, the target in the last three for second place is 84. If the leading candidate gets 175 MPs, the next best only needs to get 71.
These totals look potentially very attainable for Boris Johnson.
It's also absolutely stupid in terms of splitting the party. The grassroots clearly support Boris on this, as does the wider public. The Tory party is led by utter idiots. Just let the story die.
Also, for that PB-er asking (uniondivvie, Scott P?) whether they know any UK women who are forced to wear the veil/niqab against their will, see here:
I asked 'do you know', not 'do you know of'. Though maybe you're well acquainted with Ms بنت حيي, shared a few pints down the Sir Richard Steele perhaps?
FFS.
Indeed. In their haste to signal their virtue about not being Islamophobic or whatever, these chumps have forgotten about the women who live in these oppressive circumstances under complete domination by male family members, often abused and forced into marriage by them also. But, hey, Boris said that the burka looks like a letterbox, lets all get angry at him instead!
I'll campaign for friends, vote for them in preference to Labour, but I'm not remotely tempted to rejoin the Conservatives.
That's a shame, Sean. We need people like you back in the party, now more than ever.
People really believe this stuff. Communism is all cuddly and about helping each other because there is no profit, and the USSR communist experiment was going ok until Stalin.
I'm not sure I agree with the premise of the thread. To guarantee getting to the final 2, a leadership contender needs to get a third of MPs+1 in the final ballot (currently 106). Does he have anywhere near that level of support? I would say unlikely. Therefore the Cons could have a leaadership election and make sure Boris doesn't reach the final 2.
I agree. Others, notably Mr Meeks, will say that he probably only needs 85-90 votes to be second in the round of three - which last time round was May 199, Leadsom 84 and Gove 46.
Boris didn’t stand last time, which was probably his best opportunity, I’m not sure he’d even stand next time either. The MPs who form the electorate know all the stories and rumours from over the years, and they also saw first hand his less-than-brilliant performance in a high-profile ministerial office.
It's also absolutely stupid in terms of splitting the party. The grassroots clearly support Boris on this, as does the wider public. The Tory party is led by utter idiots. Just let the story die.
Also, for that PB-er asking (uniondivvie, Scott P?) whether they know any UK women who are forced to wear the veil/niqab against their will, see here:
I asked 'do you know', not 'do you know of'. Though maybe you're well acquainted with Ms بنت حيي, shared a few pints down the Sir Richard Steele perhaps?
FFS.
Indeed. In their haste to signal their virtue about not being Islamophobic or whatever, these chumps have forgotten about the women who live in these oppressive circumstances under complete domination by male family members, often abused and forced into marriage by them also. But, hey, Boris said that the burka looks like a letterbox, lets all get angry at him instead!
I'm not sure I agree with the premise of the thread. To guarantee getting to the final 2, a leadership contender needs to get a third of MPs+1 in the final ballot (currently 106). Does he have anywhere near that level of support? I would say unlikely. Therefore the Cons could have a leaadership election and make sure Boris doesn't reach the final 2.
Even Leadsom and IDS got to the final 2
By not being someone else. That logic doesn't work for a frontrunner.
There's actually a lot of it if you look on Twitter: Muslim women in the UK and elsewhere expressing their hatred of the niqab and burqa. Only idiots could believe that all women freely enjoy wearing these hideous garments, especially in this recent heat.
I think a lot of the "fundamentalist" nonsense peddled within Islam relates to the role of men and women. Men feel threatened by the emergence of educated, empowered women and have been forced back to warped cultural definitions to try to "keep them in their place". I'm sure not all Muslim men think like this but it seems to me to be a powerful element driving social and religious conservatism.
It exists in the West too on the alt-right and I suspect as well on the extreme Left. Much of it is driven by men who feel emasculated - the people Jordan Peterson seems to be speaking to.
I'm not sure I agree with the premise of the thread. To guarantee getting to the final 2, a leadership contender needs to get a third of MPs+1 in the final ballot (currently 106). Does he have anywhere near that level of support? I would say unlikely. Therefore the Cons could have a leaadership election and make sure Boris doesn't reach the final 2.
People really believe this stuff. Communism is all cuddly and about helping each other because there is no profit, and the USSR communist experiment was going ok until Stalin.
It's also absolutely stupid in terms of splitting the party. The grassroots clearly support Boris on this, as does the wider public. The Tory party is led by utter idiots. Just let the story die.
Also, for that PB-er asking (uniondivvie, Scott P?) whether they know any UK women who are forced to wear the veil/niqab against their will, see here:
I asked 'do you know', not 'do you know of'. Though maybe you're well acquainted with Ms بنت حيي, shared a few pints down the Sir Richard Steele perhaps?
FFS.
Indeed. In their haste to signal their virtue about not being Islamophobic or whatever, these chumps have forgotten about the women who live in these oppressive circumstances under complete domination by male family members, often abused and forced into marriage by them also. But, hey, Boris said that the burka looks like a letterbox, lets all get angry at him instead!
I'll campaign for friends, vote for them in preference to Labour, but I'm not remotely tempted to rejoin the Conservatives.
That's a shame, Sean. We need people like you back in the party, now more than ever.
I dislike the endless factionalism, and the odd combination of alternatively pandering to right wing voters, and then pandering to the SJW's.
In that light I agree he could possibly find 75MPs or more to back him, and if he does, victory is in sight.
Boris Johnson's remarks have forced the person whose job he wants, and his rivals for it, to pubicly defend soft Brexit and the Islamification of Britain. I doubt they want to be in that position, so, despite everyone calling him stupid, perhaps he has been quite clever.
Rubbish. Q
We badly need this debate. Not pointing and laughing at individual women and their dress. By doing the latter he's poisoned the well for the former. Rather than a Churchill for our age, he's more like an Enoch Powell. And, no, I don't mean that as a compliment.
Angry!
Do you deny he has drawn a line in the sand, and forced people to choose on which side to stand? I saw Theresa May defending a woman's right to wear the Burqa, which is, in all likelihood, a vote loser for her. Question whether he were right or wrong to do so the way he did, but his aim seems to be obvious, and it has worked.
No I don't think he has drawn any sort of a line in the sand. He is in favour of allowing women to wear the burqa. That's what his article said. So he's on the same side as Mrs May on this and if it is a vote loser for her it's a vote loser for him.
Duh. Strangely dim from you Cyclefree. No one has mentioned his opposition to a ban, it's gone entirely unseen. All the average person will get from the 2 minutes of Boris news on TV is that he dislikes the niqab and is happy to mock it, and refuses to grovel and apologise afterwards for his opinion.
This IS bad for May and good for Boz.
Furthermore, see below. This is also good for Boris. People are so bored of being bullied by thought police. There are murders every day in London, 97% of moped robberies (now epidemic) go unpunished, yet the Met has actually tweeted this. Unbelieveable -
These clowns are always whinging about being short of cash, solved 5% max of crimes yet can waste money and resource on this. They have to be cretins running the show.
People really believe this stuff. Communism is all cuddly and about helping each other because there is no profit, and the USSR communist experiment was going ok until Stalin.
WTF happens in our schools these days?
Communism is all about killing people. Killing internal enemies, and mobilising the population for war.
People really believe this stuff. Communism is all cuddly and about helping each other because there is no profit, and the USSR communist experiment was going ok until Stalin.
I'm not sure I agree with the premise of the thread. To guarantee getting to the final 2, a leadership contender needs to get a third of MPs+1 in the final ballot (currently 106). Does he have anywhere near that level of support? I would say unlikely. Therefore the Cons could have a leaadership election and make sure Boris doesn't reach the final 2.
I agree. Others, notably Mr Meeks, will say that he probably only needs 85-90 votes to be second in the round of three - which last time round was May 199, Leadsom 84 and Gove 46.
Boris didn’t stand last time, which was probably his best opportunity, I’m not sure he’d even stand next time either. The MPs who form the electorate know all the stories and rumours from over the years, and they also saw first hand his less-than-brilliant performance in a high-profile ministerial office.
Maths explained above. 2001 was exceptional. In 2005, David Davis got the backing of 28.8% of the MPs. In 2016, Andrea Leadsom got the backing of 25.5% of the MPs. This translates in today's electorate to 91 and 81 respectively. These are not impossible numbers for BJ.
People really believe this stuff. Communism is all cuddly and about helping each other because there is no profit, and the USSR communist experiment was going ok until Stalin.
WTF happens in our schools these days?
The NUT. It's a communist front.
The NUT doesn't exist.
Whatever teaching union exists these days, they are all a bunch of communists.
There's actually a lot of it if you look on Twitter: Muslim women in the UK and elsewhere expressing their hatred of the niqab and burqa. Only idiots could believe that all women freely enjoy wearing these hideous garments, especially in this recent heat.
I think a lot of the "fundamentalist" nonsense peddled within Islam relates to the role of men and women. Men feel threatened by the emergence of educated, empowered women and have been forced back to warped cultural definitions to try to "keep them in their place". I'm sure not all Muslim men think like this but it seems to me to be a powerful element driving social and religious conservatism.
It exists in the West too on the alt-right and I suspect as well on the extreme Left. Much of it is driven by men who feel emasculated - the people Jordan Peterson seems to be speaking to.
Will the 21st Century be "the female century" ?
Interestingly, across much of the Arab world there’s huge efforts going into women’s education and career-building, and families are being encouraged to think about education and careers for their daughters as they have always done for their sons. So traditionally Conservative Muslim countries are becoming more liberal, at the same time as Muslims living in Western liberal countries are becoming more conservative. There’s a PhD thesis in there somewhere.
People really believe this stuff. Communism is all cuddly and about helping each other because there is no profit, and the USSR communist experiment was going ok until Stalin.
WTF happens in our schools these days?
The NUT. It's a communist front.
The NUT doesn't exist.
Whatever teaching union exists these days, they are all a bunch of communists.
The main ones are the NEU (who are *************, which is why I quit them).
The NASUWT, who are well-meaning on the whole but not very well-organised.
The Voice, who are extremely well-meaning and have a 'never strike' policy that makes them look like wimps.
The NAHT which is for the bosses only and we disparagingly refer to as the 'Troughers United'.
Also the UCU in FE and HE, whose members refer to them as the Useless Hunts Union (after Sally Hunt, their supremely dim general Secretary, and Tristram Hunt, who once crossed one of their pickets to deliver a lecture on Marxism and working class solidarity).
In that light I agree he could possibly find 75MPs or more to back him, and if he does, victory is in sight.
Boris Johnson's remarks have forced the person whose job he wants, and his rivals for it, to pubicly defend soft Brexit and the Islamification of Britain. I doubt they want to be in that position, so, despite everyone calling him stupid, perhaps he has been quite clever.
Rubbish. Q
We badly need this debate. Not pointing and laughing at individual women and their dress. By doing the latter he's poisoned the well for the former. Rather than a Churchill for our age, he's more like an Enoch Powell. And, no, I don't mean that as a compliment.
Angry!
Do you deny he has drawn a line in the sand, and forced people to choose on which side to stand? I saw Theresa May defending a woman's right to wear the Burqa, which is, in all likelihood, a vote loser for her. Question whether he were right or wrong to do so the way he did, but his aim seems to be obvious, and it has worked.
No I don't think he has drawn any sort of a line in the sand. He is in favour of allowing women to wear the burqa. That's what his article said. So he's on the same side as Mrs May on this and if it is a vote loser for her it's a vote loser for him.
Duh. Strangely dim from you Cyclefree. No one has mentioned his opposition to a ban, it's gone entirely unseen. All the average person will get from the 2 minutes of Boris news on TV is that he dislikes the niqab and is happy to mock it, and refuses to grovel and apologise afterwards for his opinion.
This IS bad for May and good for Boz.
Furthermore, see below. This is also good for Boris. People are so bored of being bullied by thought police. There are murders every day in London, 97% of moped robberies (now epidemic) go unpunished, yet the Met has actually tweeted this. Unbelieveable -
These clowns are always whinging about being short of cash, solved 5% max of crimes yet can waste money and resource on this. They have to be cretins running the show.
Conceivably someone reported it as a potential crime, and they were obliged to look into it ?
In that light I agree he could possibly find 75MPs or more to back him, and if he does, victory is in sight.
Boris Johnson's remarks have forced the person whose job he wants, and his rivals for it, to pubicly defend soft Brexit and the Islamification of Britain. I doubt they want to be in that position, so, despite everyone calling him stupid, perhaps he has been quite clever.
Rubbish. Q
We badly need this debate. Not pointing and laughing at individual women and their dress. By doing the latter he's poisoned the well for the former. Rather than a Churchill for our age, he's more like an Enoch Powell. And, no, I don't mean that as a compliment.
Angry!
Do you deny he has drawn a line in the sand, and forced people to choose on which side to stand? I saw Theresa May defending a woman's right to wear the Burqa, which is, in all likelihood, a vote loser for her. Question whether he were right or wrong to do so the way he did, but his aim seems to be obvious, and it has worked.
No I don't think he has drawn any sort of a line in the sand. He is in favour of allowing women to wear the burqa. That's what his article said. So he's on the same side as Mrs May on this and if it is a vote loser for her it's a vote loser for him.
Duh. Strangely dim from you Cyclefree. No one has mentioned his opposition to a ban, it's gone entirely unseen. All the average person will get from the 2 minutes of Boris news on TV is that he dislikes the niqab and is happy to mock it, and refuses to grovel and apologise afterwards for his opinion.
This IS bad for May and good for Boz.
Furthermore, see below. This is also good for Boris. People are so bored of being bullied by thought police. There are murders every day in London, 97% of moped robberies (now epidemic) go unpunished, yet the Met has actually tweeted this. Unbelieveable -
These clowns are always whinging about being short of cash, solved 5% max of crimes yet can waste money and resource on this. They have to be cretins running the show.
Conceivably someone reported it as a potential crime, and they were obliged to look into it ?
The Met will never get anything done if somebody starts reporting the Labour Party's potential crimes.....
So traditionally Conservative Muslim countries are becoming more liberal, at the same time as Muslims living in Western liberal countries are becoming more conservative. There’s a PhD thesis in there somewhere.
You could perhaps do a comparative study looking at why some British expats are drawn to putting on Union Jack underpants and agitating for Brexit.
In that light I agree he could possibly find 75MPs or more to back him, and if he does, victory is in sight.
Boris Johnson's remarks have forced the person whose job he wants, and his rivals for it, to pubicly defend soft Brexit and the Islamification of Britain. I doubt they want to be in that position, so, despite everyone calling him stupid, perhaps he has been quite clever.
Rubbish. Q
We badly need this debate. Not pointing and laughing at individual women and their dress. By doing the latter he's poisoned the well for the former. Rather than a Churchill for our age, he's more like an Enoch Powell. And, no, I don't mean that as a compliment.
Angry!
Do you deny he has drawn a line in the sand, and forced people to choose on which side to stand? I saw Theresa May defending a woman's right to wear the Burqa, which is, in all likelihood, a vote loser for her. Question whether he were right or wrong to do so the way he did, but his aim seems to be obvious, and it has worked.
No I don't think he has drawn any sort of a line in the sand. He is in favour of allowing women to wear the burqa. That's what his article said. So he's on the same side as Mrs May on this and if it is a vote loser for her it's a vote loser for him.
Duh. Strangely dim from you Cyclefree. No one has mentioned his opposition to a ban, it's gone entirely unseen. All the average person will get from the 2 minutes of Boris news on TV is that he dislikes the niqab and is happy to mock it, and refuses to grovel and apologise afterwards for his opinion.
This IS bad for May and good for Boz.
Furthermore, see below. This is also good for Boris. People are so bored of being bullied by thought police. There are murders every day in London, 97% of moped robberies (now epidemic) go unpunished, yet the Met has actually tweeted this. Unbelieveable -
These clowns are always whinging about being short of cash, solved 5% max of crimes yet can waste money and resource on this. They have to be cretins running the show.
Conceivably someone reported it as a potential crime, and they were obliged to look into it ?
The Met will never get anything done if somebody starts reporting the Labour Party's potential crimes.....
You are implying they are getting stuff done now. Was this what you meant?
I'm not sure I agree with the premise of the thread. To guarantee getting to the final 2, a leadership contender needs to get a third of MPs+1 in the final ballot (currently 106). Does he have anywhere near that level of support? I would say unlikely. Therefore the Cons could have a leaadership election and make sure Boris doesn't reach the final 2.
I agree. Others, notably Mr Meeks, will say that he probably only needs 85-90 votes to be second in the round of three - which last time round was May 199, Leadsom 84 and Gove 46.
Boris didn’t stand last time, which was probably his best opportunity, I’m not sure he’d even stand next time either. The MPs who form the electorate know all the stories and rumours from over the years, and they also saw first hand his less-than-brilliant performance in a high-profile ministerial office.
Maths explained above. 2001 was exceptional. In 2005, David Davis got the backing of 28.8% of the MPs. In 2016, Andrea Leadsom got the backing of 25.5% of the MPs. This translates in today's electorate to 91 and 81 respectively. These are not impossible numbers for BJ.
In 2016 Leadsom did indeed get that backing but she also got double Gove's score, and surely Boris is more Gove than Leadsom, who was very much the dark horse of the Eurosceptic wing. Jacob Rees-Mogg is a better parallel to Leadsom and even more so to 2005-vintage David Davis: well-known views but no real record. Of course, it would help if JRM could resist the lure of a microphone. Boris by contrast has a record in high office, as well as a dodgy past. He is not a grey man.
If you want to back a strong Leaver, back a different one imo.
Boris Johnson's remarks have forced the person whose job he wants, and his rivals for it, to pubicly defend soft Brexit and the Islamification of Britain. I doubt they want to be in that position, so, despite everyone calling him stupid, perhaps he has been quite clever.
Rubbish. Q
We badly need this debate. Not pointing and laughing at individual women and their dress. By doing the latter he's poisoned the well for the former. Rather than a Churchill for our age, he's more like an Enoch Powell. And, no, I don't mean that as a compliment.
Angry!
Do you deny he has drawn a line in the sand, and forced people to choose on which side to stand? I saw Theresa May defending a woman's right to wear the Burqa, which is, in all likelihood, a vote loser for her. Question whether he were right or wrong to do so the way he did, but his aim seems to be obvious, and it has worked.
No I don't think he has drawn any sort of a line in the sand. He is in favour of allowing women to wear the burqa. That's what his article said. So he's on the same side as Mrs May on this and if it is a vote loser for her it's a vote loser for him.
Duh. Strangely dim from you Cyclefree. No one has mentioned his opposition to a ban, it's gone entirely unseen. All the average person will get from the 2 minutes of Boris news on TV is that he dislikes the niqab and is happy to mock it, and refuses to grovel and apologise afterwards for his opinion.
This IS bad for May and good for Boz.
Furthermore, see below. This is also good for Boris. People are so bored of being bullied by thought police. There are murders every day in London, 97% of moped robberies (now epidemic) go unpunished, yet the Met has actually tweeted this. Unbelieveable -
Maybe. And then when he does absolutely nothing about it, people will realise that they were being played by him and he's just like every other politician: saying whatever suits him and to hell with the consequences.
So, you're right, it may work as a short-term tactic but at the expense of an intelligent long-term solution to a tricky issue. And that is my point. Something that needs careful thought and action is being sacrificed for the vanity and short-term ambition of a narcissistic politician.
He's pissed off Muslims and liberals. He's gained the approbation of those who want the burqa to disappear - for now - but he will do nothing to satisfy their demands. So he will eventually piss them off as well.
This is moronic. The best explanation I can think of is that Lewis would happily see a section of the Tory membership tear up their party cards once more leaving the field in a leadership election more open to a centrist candidate.
I'm not sure I agree with the premise of the thread. To guarantee getting to the final 2, a leadership contender needs to get a third of MPs+1 in the final ballot (currently 106). Does he have anywhere near that level of support? I would say unlikely. Therefore the Cons could have a leaadership election and make sure Boris doesn't reach the final 2.
I agree. Others, notably Mr Meeks, will say that he probably only needs 85-90 votes to be second in the round of three - which last time round was May 199, Leadsom 84 and Gove 46.
Boris didn’t stand last time, which was probably his best opportunity, I’m not sure he’d even stand next time either. The MPs who form the electorate know all the stories and rumours from over the years, and they also saw first hand his less-than-brilliant performance in a high-profile ministerial office.
Maths explained above. 2001 was exceptional. In 2005, David Davis got the backing of 28.8% of the MPs. In 2016, Andrea Leadsom got the backing of 25.5% of the MPs. This translates in today's electorate to 91 and 81 respectively. These are not impossible numbers for BJ.
Your maths I agree with, I just don’t think Boris has those numbers among the MPs in the final round - unless of course the MPs screw up the earlier rounds and leave him up against Anna Soubry and Dominic Grieve! There would be a ‘Stop Boris’ candidate such as Javid or Gove, and a former chief whip or two whispering among the MPs about. Boris’ very long entry in the little black book.
I'm not sure I agree with the premise of the thread. To guarantee getting to the final 2, a leadership contender needs to get a third of MPs+1 in the final ballot (currently 106). Does he have anywhere near that level of support? I would say unlikely. Therefore the Cons could have a leaadership election and make sure Boris doesn't reach the final 2.
I agree. Others, notably Mr Meeks, will say that he probably only needs 85-90 votes to be second in the round of three - which last time round was May 199, Leadsom 84 and Gove 46.
Boris didn’t stand last time, which was probably his best opportunity, I’m not sure he’d even stand next time either. The MPs who form the electorate know all the stories and rumours from over the years, and they also saw first hand his less-than-brilliant performance in a high-profile ministerial office.
Maths explained above. 2001 was exceptional. In 2005, David Davis got the backing of 28.8% of the MPs. In 2016, Andrea Leadsom got the backing of 25.5% of the MPs. This translates in today's electorate to 91 and 81 respectively. These are not impossible numbers for BJ.
Your maths I agree with, I just don’t think Boris has those numbers among the MPs in the final round - unless of course the MPs screw up the earlier rounds and leave him up against Anna Soubry and Dominic Grieve! There would be a ‘Stop Boris’ candidate such as Javid or Gove, and a former chief whip or two whispering among the MPs about. Boris’ very long entry in the little black book.
You need not one but two "stop Boris" candidates.
Who is the hope of those Leavers who like their Brexit diamond-tipped? Jacob Rees-Mogg is evidently backing Boris Johnson. The headbangers look set to coalesce round him.
Having thought about it, the only way I'd vote for Boris is if he was running against Soubry. I'd take any other leader.
I'd vote for him over TMay.
I think Javid in the end is maybe the best bet. And probably should be favourite.
Is that before or after you deport him for being a (secular) Muslim?
In all seriousness, you are right. Javid is by far the best candidate, it's amazing more Tories don't see it. If we were to have another Tory PM, I would very much hope it was him.
So traditionally Conservative Muslim countries are becoming more liberal, at the same time as Muslims living in Western liberal countries are becoming more conservative. There’s a PhD thesis in there somewhere.
You could perhaps do a comparative study looking at why some British expats are drawn to putting on Union Jack underpants and agitating for Brexit.
That’s very easy to understand, although obviously I’d use different words to you.
Those who have spent time living and working outside the EU can and do see there’s a big wide world out there and it’s expanding rapidly.
A straw poll of acquaintances before the referendum was about 50/50 - but the sample was all ABC1 class white collar workers, a demographic that was more like 70/30 in favour of remain among those living in the UK.
Cue our resident medical experts explaining why they know more than a drug company...
Didn't need medicine back in my day. Bloody immigrants bringing in their dirty foreign germs, making us sick. Tuberculosis epidemic is a price well worth paying for DEMOCRACY.
Having thought about it, the only way I'd vote for Boris is if he was running against Soubry. I'd take any other leader.
I'd vote for him over TMay.
I think Javid in the end is maybe the best bet. And probably should be favourite.
Is that before or after you deport him for being a (secular) Muslim?
In all seriousness, you are right. Javid is by far the best candidate, it's amazing more Tories don't see it. If we were to have another Tory PM, I would very much hope it was him.
This conservative supports Javid. Boris would be a disaster - wholly unsuitable for high office
Comments
What’s more annoying is that Conservatives piling in on both sides of the argument are taking a leaf out of Jeremy Corbyn’s manual on how to keep a silly season story running unnecessarily.
Nothing would annoy Boris more than to be ignored, it’s the best thing we can do with him.
Vanilla really is a turd.
Anyone else getting weird stuff like this?
Popcorn alert!!!
https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1027517827383808001
https://twitter.com/CricketMirror/status/1027519305397796870
The permanently offended chattering classes would give collective birth to a giant pineapple. It's about time someone willing to speak his mind wrenched back the controls so we can all freely piss one another off again in a nihilistic, bonkers new liberal world.
I think taking the piss out of religion is a GREAT thing, and should be encouraged.
I think the burqa and niqab are unnecessary, impractical things* but I would never ban them. Instead I would love to see Muslim women liberated. When the reformation of Islam happens it will be driven by liberated, free-spirited, strong Muslim women. We should encourage them to break free and stop listening to the hand-wringing weaklings who are so fearful of giving offence to people who believe in some organised superstition.
*I bet the vast, vast majority of people in the Western World don't like either the burqa or niqab.
https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1027524291515084800
I think that most Labour voters want a party that's more left wing than in the Blair/Brown years, and most Conservative voters want a party that's more right wing than under Major or Cameron.
And sure there are people grabbing this as any stick to beat Boris with, just as there are Conservatives with no interest in Middle East politics gleefully using the ammunition the Corbynites leave lying around. That's politics.
Step back and look at the parallels.
https://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/boris-johnson-defended-by-leading-imam-over-burka-comments_uk_5b6bf966e4b0530743c71456
https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1027519201152516096
So if the leading candidate gets 150 MPs, the target in the last three for second place is 84. If the leading candidate gets 175 MPs, the next best only needs to get 71.
These totals look potentially very attainable for Boris Johnson.
https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1027504434534920192
People really believe this stuff. Communism is all cuddly and about helping each other because there is no profit, and the USSR communist experiment was going ok until Stalin.
WTF happens in our schools these days?
https://twitter.com/sovietvisuals/status/1027343084944859137
Boris didn’t stand last time, which was probably his best opportunity, I’m not sure he’d even stand next time either. The MPs who form the electorate know all the stories and rumours from over the years, and they also saw first hand his less-than-brilliant performance in a high-profile ministerial office.
Nah, me neither...
It exists in the West too on the alt-right and I suspect as well on the extreme Left. Much of it is driven by men who feel emasculated - the people Jordan Peterson seems to be speaking to.
Will the 21st Century be "the female century" ?
It just took them away again a few years later.
I think it was the moment when the Soviets realised abortions in Leningrad were exceeding live births.
(PS the translation should be 'bound' not 'binded,' although I realise you didn't tweet it.)
пролетарии всех стран соединяйтесь = proletarians of all countries unite
Highlighted by the PM in bold includes "The two options on offer from the EU at the moment are not acceptable to me, or to the United Kingdom"
and
"I remain clear that no deal is better than a bad deal - and we are stepping up our "no deal" preparations."
and
"I have been very clear that we are rejecting the two models [the EU] have put forward."
Then goes on to try and sell the common rulebook, to a party looking considerably askance at the whole thing.
http://www.pewforum.org/2017/05/10/democracy-nationalism-and-pluralism/
The NASUWT, who are well-meaning on the whole but not very well-organised.
The Voice, who are extremely well-meaning and have a 'never strike' policy that makes them look like wimps.
The NAHT which is for the bosses only and we disparagingly refer to as the 'Troughers United'.
Also the UCU in FE and HE, whose members refer to them as the Useless Hunts Union (after Sally Hunt, their supremely dim general Secretary, and Tristram Hunt, who once crossed one of their pickets to deliver a lecture on Marxism and working class solidarity).
Is it an austerity thing ?
If you want to back a strong Leaver, back a different one imo.
I'll get my coat.
So, you're right, it may work as a short-term tactic but at the expense of an intelligent long-term solution to a tricky issue. And that is my point. Something that needs careful thought and action is being sacrificed for the vanity and short-term ambition of a narcissistic politician.
He's pissed off Muslims and liberals. He's gained the approbation of those who want the burqa to disappear - for now - but he will do nothing to satisfy their demands. So he will eventually piss them off as well.
Who is the hope of those Leavers who like their Brexit diamond-tipped? Jacob Rees-Mogg is evidently backing Boris Johnson. The headbangers look set to coalesce round him.
should be I.L.L.E.G.A.L. while driving.
In all seriousness, you are right. Javid is by far the best candidate, it's amazing more Tories don't see it. If we were to have another Tory PM, I would very much hope it was him.
Cue our resident medical experts explaining why they know more than a drug company...
Dying patients in Koln will be Barnier's fault then.... ?
Those who have spent time living and working outside the EU can and do see there’s a big wide world out there and it’s expanding rapidly.
A straw poll of acquaintances before the referendum was about 50/50 - but the sample was all ABC1 class white collar workers, a demographic that was more like 70/30 in favour of remain among those living in the UK.