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My fellow Yorkshiremen should be more like me, humble and egoless, those two attributes leads to you getting legendary modesty.bigjohnowls said:
Bloody over inflated Yorkshire EgosTykejohnno said:
For me a couple of reasons,first - a couple of years back when Yorkshire going for county championship in last march against Middlesex he wouldn't play because he needed a rest or was a family matter ,who knows.Nigelb said:
Why ?Tykejohnno said:
And Yorkshire cricket,the man should be sacked by the club.TheScreamingEagles said:Disgracefully the England selectors have picked Adil Rashid in the squad for the first test.
A kick in the knackers for red ball cricketers.
And to this season he let Yorkshire down big time with he doesn't want to play county championship cricket,this is bloody Yorkshire county cricket club .
I have the feeling his heart isn't in the club any more.
The guy must remember that this great club will be here long time after he's gone from the game
Dont you just love em.0 -
Yes sir, sorry sir.ydoethur said:
*Teacher hat ON*TOPPING said:
Let me ahem try again.John_M said:
Mock me if you will, but I'd prefer to get JC now, than son-or-daughter-of-JC later. The Left have eaten the Labour party's brain and they're not letting go. I see Corbyn as ineffectual. His successors might not be.TOPPING said:Look we are not going to revoke A50. If nothing else it would usher in Jezza in a heartbeat and Tezza knows this. I can imagine an 80% disapproval rating for such a move. Extension? 70% approval.
No. He is despicable. Those around him are despicable. And at some point I am hoping that it will be broadly realised that this is the case. Those as we have well rehearsed on here who are Labour and therefore believe they are simply incapable of racism, at some point will see the light.
May is merely inept,
I trust you have also washed your keyboard.
*Teacher hat OFF*0 -
They're just a lot of puddings.ydoethur said:
Bloody over inflated Yorkshire Egos
Dont you just love em.
On a point of order, Muster Speaker, but an inflated Yorkshire pudding is generally held to be a good thing.0 -
I'd take her in a heartbeat. Plenty wrong with her, but I'd take her over JC and I'd have a good long look at lending her my vote if the ERG got a hold of my party.grabcocque said:
JC is simply keeping the seat warm for our one and true Meme Queen, Emily ThornberryTOPPING said:
Let me ahem try again.John_M said:
Mock me if you will, but I'd prefer to get JC now, than son-or-daughter-of-JC later. The Left have eaten the Labour party's brain and they're not letting go. I see Corbyn as ineffectual. His successors might not be.TOPPING said:Look we are not going to revoke A50. If nothing else it would usher in Jezza in a heartbeat and Tezza knows this. I can imagine an 80% disapproval rating for such a move. Extension? 70% approval.
No. He is despicable. Those around him are despicable.
May is merely inept,0 -
Mr Topping: you and I agree on this. As does @ydoethur. But we may as well be pissing in the wind, for all the good it does.TOPPING said:
Let me ahem try again.John_M said:
Mock me if you will, but I'd prefer to get JC now, than son-or-daughter-of-JC later. The Left have eaten the Labour party's brain and they're not letting go. I see Corbyn as ineffectual. His successors might not be.TOPPING said:Look we are not going to revoke A50. If nothing else it would usher in Jezza in a heartbeat and Tezza knows this. I can imagine an 80% disapproval rating for such a move. Extension? 70% approval.
No. He is despicable. Those around him are despicable. And at some point I am hoping that it will be broadly realised that this is the case. Those as we have well rehearsed on here who are Labour and therefore believe they are simply incapable of racism, at some point will see the light.
May is merely inept,
We have and will continue to have inept and despicable governments for the foreseeable future until (if) the next generation of morally intelligent, sensible and vaguely competent politicians turn up.
This may be a painful passing phase or it could, as @AlistairMeeks pointed out a while back, be our future.
Anyway off to the post office and bank and then back to pitch for some work with a foreign bank (while they're still here.....!)0 -
Now THIS starter in the Church Times is mischievous:
MANY of my friends think it ridiculous to have too much faith in Jeremy Corbyn. They argue that he cannot possibly perform the miracles that his followers expect, and perhaps demand. But who else except a miracle-worker could unite the Jewish communities of Britain as he has done?
That said, underneath there is a serious point:
https://www.churchtimes.co.uk/articles/2018/20-july/comment/columnists/press-jeremy-corbyn-and-jewish-communities0 -
Are you saying my pun has fallen flat?grabcocque said:
On a point of order, Muster Speaker, but an inflated Yorkshire pudding is generally held to be a good thing.ydoethur said:
They're just a lot of puddings.grabcocque said:
Bloody over inflated Yorkshire Egos
Dont you just love em.
(PS blockquotes fixed)
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Actually, I don't agree. I think Topping's far too generous.Cyclefree said:
Mr Topping: you and I agree on this. As does @ydoethur. But we may as well be pissing in the wind, for all the good it does.TOPPING said:
Let me ahem try again.John_M said:
Mock me if you will, but I'd prefer to get JC now, than son-or-daughter-of-JC later. The Left have eaten the Labour party's brain and they're not letting go. I see Corbyn as ineffectual. His successors might not be.TOPPING said:Look we are not going to revoke A50. If nothing else it would usher in Jezza in a heartbeat and Tezza knows this. I can imagine an 80% disapproval rating for such a move. Extension? 70% approval.
No. He is despicable. Those around him are despicable. And at some point I am hoping that it will be broadly realised that this is the case. Those as we have well rehearsed on here who are Labour and therefore believe they are simply incapable of racism, at some point will see the light.
May is merely inept,
We have and will continue to have inept and despicable governments for the foreseeable future until (if) the next generation of morally intelligent, sensible and vaguely competent politicians turn up.
This may be a painful passing phase or it could, as @AlistairMeeks pointed out a while back, be our future.
Anyway off to the post office and bank and then back to pitch for some work with a foreign bank (while they're still here.....!)0 -
good luck. Careful of those furriners.Cyclefree said:
Mr Topping: you and I agree on this. As does @ydoethur. But we may as well be pissing in the wind, for all the good it does.TOPPING said:
Let me ahem try again.John_M said:
Mock me if you will, but I'd prefer to get JC now, than son-or-daughter-of-JC later. The Left have eaten the Labour party's brain and they're not letting go. I see Corbyn as ineffectual. His successors might not be.TOPPING said:Look we are not going to revoke A50. If nothing else it would usher in Jezza in a heartbeat and Tezza knows this. I can imagine an 80% disapproval rating for such a move. Extension? 70% approval.
No. He is despicable. Those around him are despicable. And at some point I am hoping that it will be broadly realised that this is the case. Those as we have well rehearsed on here who are Labour and therefore believe they are simply incapable of racism, at some point will see the light.
May is merely inept,
We have and will continue to have inept and despicable governments for the foreseeable future until (if) the next generation of morally intelligent, sensible and vaguely competent politicians turn up.
This may be a painful passing phase or it could, as @AlistairMeeks pointed out a while back, be our future.
Anyway off to the post office and bank and then back to pitch for some work with a foreign bank (while they're still here.....!)0 -
Ian Dunn can moan about Iraq being brought up all he likes, but the bottom line is it toxified Blair. FBPE twitter seems to be delusional on the matter of Blair more generally. Femi gave them a reality check recently:
https://twitter.com/femi_sorry/status/1020093163279732736?s=21
I don’t know how they don’t understand that figures like Blair are unpopular, why they are, and why they should seek to find others with less baggage to communicate their message.0 -
Is there anything that the Leavers aren't prepared to throw under a bus if it gets in the way of Brexit? I'm struggling to think of anything, as someone who doesn't support monarchy I'm kind of hoping the Queen gets overheard saying that we must be mental to go ahead with Brexit!AlastairMeeks said:
My original post was entirely about the choices that Leavers are making. They are choosing to undermine Britain's institutions rather than supporting them.ydoethur said:
Well, you've said the basis for this appeal is that Leavers assume the EC is biased against them. The implication was therefore that you thought this action shouldn't be brought.AlastairMeeks said:
I have not said any such thing.ydoethur said:
AlistairAlastairMeeks said:So Leavers have decided that the Electoral Commission is biased (a view based so far as one can see on nothing other than noisy but disingenuous twaddle) and would prefer to crowdfund appeals against its determinations rather than support its neutrality.
At some point, post-Brexit, those same Leavers will want the country to unite behind institutions. Which institutions do they think that the country should be uniting behind?
I'm genuinely surprised at this post from you, especially as you are a lawyer. Are you saying people should be found guilty and heavily fined by a body that's not a court, without right of review?
I'm saying whatever the facts of this case the EC's actions are morally indefensible, mind-blowingly stupid and conceivably illegal, and therefore they certainly should be reviewed by a court. The court may well uphold the verdict, but at least then there will have been something akin to normal legal process.
As I say, however, my contempt may be coloured by the extremely negative experience I have of such quangos, especially their arrogance, rudeness, incompetence and stupidity.
I have at no point suggested that they did not have the right to do so. I asked what institutions Leavers think the country should eventually be uniting behind? Right now they appear to want to destroy every civic institution in the country.0 -
Tell us more about the Turnip-recipes.John_M said:
Look out for my forthcoming blockbuster '101 ways to prepare Turnips', coming soon.TOPPING said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IaeeSKpwSQCyclefree said:
I thought that one of the legal arguments the government lawyers wanted to use in the Final Miller case (but were forbidden from doing for political reasons) was that Article 50 was revocable.grabcocque said:
The treaty of Lisbon is clear that it takes unanimous consent of the Council, there's no basis at all for thinking the UK government can unilaterally revoke Article 50.Cyclefree said:
Why don't we be mischievous and just revoke Article 50. Then let anyone who disagrees argue before the ECJ that we can't. It'll take years and make everyone look ridiculous.grabcocque said:France is being mischievous there.
The price the EU27 will extract for suspending article 50 will be high. Germany has already said it would expect a "significant" change in British attitudes, whatever that means.
I know, the referendum, Parliament, ERG, Labour, blah, blah.....
But honestly: is it any less sensible than all the other daft suggestions that have been floating around?
Anyway, send the letter in. See what happens. It can't be any more stupid than stockpiling food, ration books etc and "Build your own Anderson shelter" leaflets being sent out to everyone, which seems to be the government's current policy.
In re the actual point, there's been a lot of lawyer-talk about Article 50, both for and against revocation, and whether, if indeed revocable, it's unilaterally revocable (note that Lisbon is silent on this matter - the article itself only deals with extension).
I liked Stephen Weatherill's argument, which jibes with my technical sphere - look at the edge cases. If a perfidious state were minded to, it could repeatedly invoke A50, decide that it didn't fancy the offered deal, unilaterally revoke and try again later.
The greatest beneficiaries of the status-quo are lawyers and politicians. The chances that they would actually precipitate a crisis whereby they destroyed themselves are precisely zero.
You, I, or anyone else, in isolation or collectively can do whatever we like. We choose to restrict our actions in the hope that others will so comply. When the mechanism by which we express our choice starts to get ideas above its station we can change the mechanism. I think this translates to giving Junker his P45 at least.0 -
If Corbyn does become PM, I look forward to Comrade Blair's transportation to the Gulag.0
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I buy this argument. More generally, the fact that May and her government have started ramping the no-deal horror stories now, gives credence to this idea that May has resolved that no deal will not be allowed to happen under any circumstances.Omnium said:
Tell us more about the Turnip-recipes.
The chances that they would actually precipitate a crisis whereby they destroyed themselves are precisely zero.0 -
Good afternoon, everyone.
Mr. Cocque, do you mean she'll capitulate utterly, or offer a second referendum?0 -
I was just trying to cheer myself up with the turnip quip, please forgive me. After Brexit, there will be, of course, no turnips to be had.Omnium said:
Tell us more about the Turnip-recipes.John_M said:TOPPING said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IaeeSKpwSQCyclefree said:
I thought that one of the legal arguments the government lawyers wanted to use in the Final Miller case (but were forbidden from doing for political reasons) was that Article 50 was revocable.grabcocque said:
The treaty of Lisbon is clear that it takes unanimous consent of the Council, there's no basis at all for thinking the UK government can unilaterally revoke Article 50.Cyclefree said:
Why don't we be mischievous and just revoke Article 50. Then let anyone who disagrees argue before the ECJ that we can't. It'll take years and make everyone look ridiculous.grabcocque said:France is being mischievous there.
The price the EU27 will extract for suspending article 50 will be high. Germany has already said it would expect a "significant" change in British attitudes, whatever that means.
I know, the referendum, Parliament, ERG, Labour, blah, blah.....
But honestly: is it any less sensible than all the other daft suggestions that have been floating around?
Anyway, send the letter in. See what happens. It can't be any more stupid than stockpiling food, ration books etc and "Build your own Anderson shelter" leaflets being sent out to everyone, which seems to be the government's current policy.
The greatest beneficiaries of the status-quo are lawyers and politicians. The chances that they would actually precipitate a crisis whereby they destroyed themselves are precisely zero.
You, I, or anyone else, in isolation or collectively can do whatever we like. We choose to restrict our actions in the hope that others will so comply. When the mechanism by which we express our choice starts to get ideas above its station we can change the mechanism. I think this translates to giving Junker his P45 at least.
I think it was MyBurningEars of this parish who expressed it most succinctly; many Remainers see the EU in the terms of 'the deal', and we have a comparitively sweet one. Many Leavers see it in terms of 'the project' and have become more sceptical post-Maastricht (and Amsterdam, Nice & Lisbon). Hence mutual incomprehension.
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If she brings back a deal, and JRM and Labour defeat it, May still has a few options open to her to avoid no deal.Morris_Dancer said:Good afternoon, everyone.
Mr. Cocque, do you mean she'll capitulate utterly, or offer a second referendum?
One of which is throwing herself on the mercy of the EU27 and asking for indefinite leave to remain.
Another option is offering a referendum to Labour, though it's unclear what terms they'd accept.
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Do you mean that we are being brainwashed?grabcocque said:
I buy this argument. More generally, the fact that May and her government have started ramping the no-deal horror stories now, gives credence to this idea that May has resolved that no deal will not be allowed to happen under any circumstances.Omnium said:
Tell us more about the Turnip-recipes.
The chances that they would actually precipitate a crisis whereby they destroyed themselves are precisely zero.0 -
Yes, but also 'no deal' is anything but. If there's no deal of any kind then why are we paying their salaries?grabcocque said:
I buy this argument. More generally, the fact that May and her government have started ramping the no-deal horror stories now, gives credence to this idea that May has resolved that no deal will not be allowed to happen under any circumstances.Omnium said:
Tell us more about the Turnip-recipes.
The chances that they would actually precipitate a crisis whereby they destroyed themselves are precisely zero.
Tory scare-mongering. such as it is, is just defusing Labour's opportunity to do the same.0 -
Crikey.
A Welsh Assembly Member has resigned amid a police investigation into a "serious offence".
Married father-of-two Simon Thomas quit the Senedd and Plaid Cymru and deleted his website and Twitter account on Wednesday.
Police said an individual has been "arrested on suspicion of possessing indecent images".
Mr Thomas is a former MP who lost his Ceredicion seat in 2005, and went on to become an adviser to former deputy first minister Ieuan Wyn Jones.0 -
No, the stories are absolutely true. But it's in May's best interests that the horror should become public knowledge now.PClipp said:
Do you mean that we are being brainwashed?grabcocque said:
I buy this argument. More generally, the fact that May and her government have started ramping the no-deal horror stories now, gives credence to this idea that May has resolved that no deal will not be allowed to happen under any circumstances.Omnium said:
Tell us more about the Turnip-recipes.
The chances that they would actually precipitate a crisis whereby they destroyed themselves are precisely zero.0 -
Mr. Cocque, remaining with no (additional) referendum would be... politically interesting.0
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I think it's reasonably clear that PM May will endeavour to sell her shit sandwich by pointing to the even bigger one if we fail to agree a way forward with our cherished allies and partners.grabcocque said:
No, the stories are absolutely true. But it's in May's best interests that the horror should become public knowledge now.PClipp said:
Do you mean that we are being brainwashed?grabcocque said:
I buy this argument. More generally, the fact that May and her government have started ramping the no-deal horror stories now, gives credence to this idea that May has resolved that no deal will not be allowed to happen under any circumstances.Omnium said:
Tell us more about the Turnip-recipes.
The chances that they would actually precipitate a crisis whereby they destroyed themselves are precisely zero.0 -
ExactlyTheScreamingEagles said:
My fellow Yorkshiremen should be more like me, humble and egoless, those two attributes leads to you getting legendary modesty.bigjohnowls said:
Bloody over inflated Yorkshire EgosTykejohnno said:
For me a couple of reasons,first - a couple of years back when Yorkshire going for county championship in last march against Middlesex he wouldn't play because he needed a rest or was a family matter ,who knows.Nigelb said:
Why ?Tykejohnno said:
And Yorkshire cricket,the man should be sacked by the club.TheScreamingEagles said:Disgracefully the England selectors have picked Adil Rashid in the squad for the first test.
A kick in the knackers for red ball cricketers.
And to this season he let Yorkshire down big time with he doesn't want to play county championship cricket,this is bloody Yorkshire county cricket club .
I have the feeling his heart isn't in the club any more.
The guy must remember that this great club will be here long time after he's gone from the game
Dont you just love em.0 -
The problems start in Rashids head,he thinks he bigger than the club.Nigelb said:
I don't really disagree with that, but sacking him simply for getting picked by England when they renewed his contract, in the knowledge that he had still made himself available for England selection, is wrong.Tykejohnno said:
For me a couple of reasons,first - a couple of years back when Yorkshire going for county championship in last march against Middlesex he wouldn't play because he needed a rest or was a family matter ,who knows.Nigelb said:
Why ?Tykejohnno said:
And Yorkshire cricket,the man should be sacked by the club.TheScreamingEagles said:Disgracefully the England selectors have picked Adil Rashid in the squad for the first test.
A kick in the knackers for red ball cricketers.
And to this season he let Yorkshire down big time with he doesn't want to play county championship cricket,this is bloody Yorkshire county cricket club .
I have the feeling his heart isn't in the club any more.
The guy must remember that this great club will be here long time after he's gone from the game
If they choose not to renew his contract for next season that would be an entirely different matter - but I'd personally wait to see how he performs first. If he plays in India, the selectors have said that he will have to play first class cricket next season.
it's not as though there are many leggies around.
Bottom line is that he's been mishandled by England, and it's a mess. The problems in English cricket start at the top.
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Come now, Mr Dancer, everyone knows old people don't vote.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Cocque, remaining with no (additional) referendum would be... politically interesting.
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My guess is May's realised that her career will be over in March 2019 and as such she's prepared to make a heroic sacrifice to ensure that The Deal Is Done, even though her party will ensure she'll be commemorated in the Annals of Great Tory Traitors forever.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Cocque, remaining with no (additional) referendum would be... politically interesting.
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I abbreviated Shaw: My country, right or wrong," is a thing that no patriot would think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying, "My mother, drunk or sober.ydoethur said:
I've always thought both of those to be strange sayings. They imply, taken literally, that you are willing to be the national of a country only as long as it is wrong, and that one of your parents is biologically disconnected from you while in Juncker mode.CarlottaVance said:
"My country right or wrong! My mother drunk or sober"AlastairMeeks said:
My original post was entirely about the choices that Leavers are making. They are choosing to undermine Britain's institutions rather than supporting them.ydoethur said:
Well, you've said the basis for this appeal is that Leavers assume the EC is biased against them. The implication was therefore that you thought this action shouldn't be brought.AlastairMeeks said:
I have not said any such thing.ydoethur said:
AlistairAlastairMeeks said:So Leavers have decided that the Electoral Commission is biased (a view based so far as one can see on nothing other than noisy but disingenuous twaddle) and would prefer to crowdfund appeals against its determinations rather than support its neutrality.
At some point, post-Brexit, those same Leavers will want the country to unite behind institutions. Which institutions do they think that the country should be uniting behind?
I'm genuinely surprised at this post from you, especially as you are a lawyer. Are you saying people should be found guilty and heavily fined by a body that's not a court, without right of review?
I'm saying whatever the facts of this case the EC's actions are morally indefensible, mind-blowingly stupid and conceivably illegal, and therefore they certainly should be reviewed by a court. The court may well uphold the verdict, but at least then there will have been something akin to normal legal process.
As I say, however, my contempt may be coloured by the extremely negative experience I have of such quangos, especially their arrogance, rudeness, incompetence and stupidity.
Originally of course it was 'this is my party, right or wrong, for I know one cannot be right against the party.' (Lev Bronstein.)
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My country, sober or (preferably) drunk.0
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They'll be stuck in the customs queues at Berwick and Gretna.....those that haven't been stockpiled in Ayrshire, that is....John_M said:
After Brexit, there will be, of course, no turnips to be had.Omnium said:
Tell us more about the Turnip-recipes.John_M said:TOPPING said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IaeeSKpwSQCyclefree said:
I thought that one of the legal arguments the government lawyers wanted to use in the Final Miller case (but were forbidden from doing for political reasons) was that Article 50 was revocable.grabcocque said:
The treaty of Lisbon is clear that it takes unanimous consent of the Council, there's no basis at all for thinking the UK government can unilaterally revoke Article 50.Cyclefree said:
Why don't we be mischievous and just revoke Article 50. Then let anyone who disagrees argue before the ECJ that we can't. It'll take years and make everyone look ridiculous.grabcocque said:France is being mischievous there.
The price the EU27 will extract for suspending article 50 will be high. Germany has already said it would expect a "significant" change in British attitudes, whatever that means.
I know, the referendum, Parliament, ERG, Labour, blah, blah.....
But honestly: is it any less sensible than all the other daft suggestions that have been floating around?
Anyway, send the letter in. See what happens. It can't be any more stupid than stockpiling food, ration books etc and "Build your own Anderson shelter" leaflets being sent out to everyone, which seems to be the government's current policy.
The greatest beneficiaries of the status-quo are lawyers and politicians. The chances that they would actually precipitate a crisis whereby they destroyed themselves are precisely zero.
You, I, or anyone else, in isolation or collectively can do whatever we like. We choose to restrict our actions in the hope that others will so comply. When the mechanism by which we express our choice starts to get ideas above its station we can change the mechanism. I think this translates to giving Junker his P45 at least.
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That's never happened before at YCCC, has it?Tykejohnno said:
The problems start in Rashids head,he thinks he bigger than the club.Nigelb said:
I don't really disagree with that, but sacking him simply for getting picked by England when they renewed his contract, in the knowledge that he had still made himself available for England selection, is wrong.Tykejohnno said:
For me a couple of reasons,first - a couple of years back when Yorkshire going for county championship in last march against Middlesex he wouldn't play because he needed a rest or was a family matter ,who knows.Nigelb said:
Why ?Tykejohnno said:
And Yorkshire cricket,the man should be sacked by the club.TheScreamingEagles said:Disgracefully the England selectors have picked Adil Rashid in the squad for the first test.
A kick in the knackers for red ball cricketers.
And to this season he let Yorkshire down big time with he doesn't want to play county championship cricket,this is bloody Yorkshire county cricket club .
I have the feeling his heart isn't in the club any more.
The guy must remember that this great club will be here long time after he's gone from the game
If they choose not to renew his contract for next season that would be an entirely different matter - but I'd personally wait to see how he performs first. If he plays in India, the selectors have said that he will have to play first class cricket next season.
it's not as though there are many leggies around.
Bottom line is that he's been mishandled by England, and it's a mess. The problems in English cricket start at the top.
EDIT: And this was something else Cameron was right about.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-342228010 -
Why should we be humble and egoless,we might have not won 33 championships ;-)bigjohnowls said:
ExactlyTheScreamingEagles said:
My fellow Yorkshiremen should be more like me, humble and egoless, those two attributes leads to you getting legendary modesty.bigjohnowls said:
Bloody over inflated Yorkshire EgosTykejohnno said:
For me a couple of reasons,first - a couple of years back when Yorkshire going for county championship in last march against Middlesex he wouldn't play because he needed a rest or was a family matter ,who knows.Nigelb said:
Why ?Tykejohnno said:
And Yorkshire cricket,the man should be sacked by the club.TheScreamingEagles said:Disgracefully the England selectors have picked Adil Rashid in the squad for the first test.
A kick in the knackers for red ball cricketers.
And to this season he let Yorkshire down big time with he doesn't want to play county championship cricket,this is bloody Yorkshire county cricket club .
I have the feeling his heart isn't in the club any more.
The guy must remember that this great club will be here long time after he's gone from the game
Dont you just love em.0 -
Apart from Maggie, have the Tories ever had a PM leader they don't consider a traitor? I've heard every Tory PM from and including Macmillan branded thus.grabcocque said:
My guess is May's realised that her career will be over in March 2019 and as such she's prepared to make a heroic sacrifice to ensure that The Deal Is Done, even though her party will ensure she'll be commemorated in the Annals of Great Tory Traitors forever.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Cocque, remaining with no (additional) referendum would be... politically interesting.
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The Tories aren't kidding when they call the C&U a 'broad church'. One of the good things about UKIP was some of the nutters nailed their colours to Farage's mast.Stark_Dawning said:
Apart from Maggie, have the Tories ever had a PM leader they don't consider a traitor? I've heard every Tory PM from and including Macmillan branded thus.grabcocque said:
My guess is May's realised that her career will be over in March 2019 and as such she's prepared to make a heroic sacrifice to ensure that The Deal Is Done, even though her party will ensure she'll be commemorated in the Annals of Great Tory Traitors forever.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Cocque, remaining with no (additional) referendum would be... politically interesting.
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Bloody hell. I knew him quite well at one time.TheScreamingEagles said:Crikey.
A Welsh Assembly Member has resigned amid a police investigation into a "serious offence".
Married father-of-two Simon Thomas quit the Senedd and Plaid Cymru and deleted his website and Twitter account on Wednesday.
Police said an individual has been "arrested on suspicion of possessing indecent images".
Mr Thomas is a former MP who lost his Ceredicion seat in 2005, and went on to become an adviser to former deputy first minister Ieuan Wyn Jones.0 -
McLaren just confirmed that they have hired Key:Morris_Dancer said:
https://twitter.com/McLarenF1/status/1022438647256309760
"McLaren is pleased to confirm that James Key will join the team in the role of technical director."
My guess is that TR are trying to negotiate the length of his gardening leave and McLaren want him to start immediately.0 -
Mr. Max, could well be right.0
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So they have to raise the tax payable on the funding in addition? That'll go down well with the target audience.Sean_F said:
Sure, but if you give the named person the money to pay the fine, and they pay it, then the order is satisfied.grabcocque said:
A fine is an order for the named person to make a payment. If somebody else makes that payment, then the order isn't considered satisfied. Or something like that.Sean_F said:
Unless there's fraud involved, or perverting the course of justice, I don't see how it can be illegal to pay someone else's fine.RobD said:
Is it really illegal to pay someone else's fine? I would have thought that might be common amongst couples?grabcocque said:Grimes is very unlikely to prevail on appeal. But if he uses any left over money to pay his fine then he'd definitely be doing something illegal.
So taking penalty points for someone else and paying the fine is definitely illegal, but I wouldn't have thought that it was illegal as a general principle.0 -
It could well be that Tost hasn't been involved in the negotiation given that McLaren would be talking to Horner and Dr Marko rather than Tost. He may have been completely blindsided by everything this morning like the rest of the F1 world.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Max, could well be right.
0 -
I think you’re falling for the hyperbole a bit there.Cyclefree said:
I thought that one of the legal arguments the government lawyers wanted to use in the Final Miller case (but were forbidden from doing for political reasons) was that Article 50 was revocable.grabcocque said:
The treaty of Lisbon is clear that it takes unanimous consent of the Council, there's no basis at all for thinking the UK government can unilaterally revoke Article 50.Cyclefree said:
Why don't we be mischievous and just revoke Article 50. Then let anyone who disagrees argue before the ECJ that we can't. It'll take years and make everyone look ridiculous.grabcocque said:France is being mischievous there.
The price the EU27 will extract for suspending article 50 will be high. Germany has already said it would expect a "significant" change in British attitudes, whatever that means.
I know, the referendum, Parliament, ERG, Labour, blah, blah.....
But honestly: is it any less sensible than all the other daft suggestions that have been floating around?
Anyway, send the letter in. See what happens. It can't be any more stupid than stockpiling food, ration books etc and "Build your own Anderson shelter" leaflets being sent out to everyone, which seems to be the government's current policy.
Besides which there is no politically viable route for A50 to be revoked. The referendum mandate must be delivered and it’d be even more damaging to our democracy if it is not.0 -
Tost is upset that a rival team has hired his man. The discussions now are about time and money.MaxPB said:
McLaren just confirmed that they have hired Key:Morris_Dancer said:
ttps://twitter.com/McLarenF1/status/1022438647256309760
"McLaren is pleased to confirm that James Key will join the team in the role of technical director."
My guess is that TR are trying to negotiate the length of his gardening leave and McLaren want him to start immediately.0 -
Of course there is.Casino_Royale said:Besides which there is no politically viable route for A50 to be revoked.
If the material impact of Brexit is sufficient, it will be politically imperative.0 -
Vote Leave knew they were the David to the Remain campaigns Goliath and were up against overwhelming force.Tissue_Price said:Vote Leave, and Darren Grimes, appear to be principally guilty of doing something clumsily that should have been done with much more finesse. I don't know that they deserve any great sympathy for that.
The total spent suggests that spending limits don't work very well on referendums.
I expect they tried to raise and spend everything they could and in the frantic effort to meet the deadlines the organisation and accounting of it was less than optimal.
Party to amuse myself I donated exactly a millionth of what we send to the EU every week. I expect all of my money was spent, but I have no idea where.0 -
I thought Tost would have been Key’s manager at STR, whereas Horner runs the RBR team, both reporting to Marko? Maybe their team structure is as bad as McLaren underneath!MaxPB said:
It could well be that Tost hasn't been involved in the negotiation given that McLaren would be talking to Horner and Dr Marko rather than Tost. He may have been completely blindsided by everything this morning like the rest of the F1 world.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Max, could well be right.
0 -
On the contrary, when the sheep and lamb industry collapses in the face of EU customs duties/quotas and increased NZ imports there will be glut and turnips for all.John_M said:
I was just trying to cheer myself up with the turnip quip, please forgive me. After Brexit, there will be, of course, no turnips to be had.Omnium said:
Tell us more about the Turnip-recipes.John_M said:TOPPING said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IaeeSKpwSQCyclefree said:
I thought that one of the legal arguments the government lawyers wanted to use in the Final Miller case (but were forbidden from doing for political reasons) was that Article 50 was revocable.grabcocque said:
The treaty of Lisbon is clear that it takes unanimous consent of the Council, there's no basis at all for thinking the UK government can unilaterally revoke Article 50.Cyclefree said:
Why don't we be mischievous and just revoke Article 50. Then let anyone who disagrees argue before the ECJ that we can't. It'll take years and make everyone look ridiculous.grabcocque said:France is being mischievous there.
The price the EU27 will extract for suspending article 50 will be high. Germany has already said it would expect a "significant" change in British attitudes, whatever that means.
I know, the referendum, Parliament, ERG, Labour, blah, blah.....
But honestly: is it any less sensible than all the other daft suggestions that have been floating around?
Anyway, send the letter in. See what happens. It can't be any more stupid than stockpiling food, ration books etc and "Build your own Anderson shelter" leaflets being sent out to everyone, which seems to be the government's current policy.
The greatest beneficiaries of the status-quo are lawyers and politicians. The chances that they would actually precipitate a crisis whereby they destroyed themselves are precisely zero.
You, I, or anyone else, in isolation or collectively can do whatever we like. We choose to restrict our actions in the hope that others will so comply. When the mechanism by which we express our choice starts to get ideas above its station we can change the mechanism. I think this translates to giving Junker his P45 at least.0 -
Ultimately Marko and Horner call the shots at both teams. When they promoted Max Verstappen mid season, it was Horner who made that call. If TR are going to lose a business critical staff member and someone who was potentially a long term replacement for Newey, Horner is the man to make the decision. Tost is the reserve team manager, nothing more.Sandpit said:
I thought Tost would have been Key’s manager at STR, whereas Horner runs the RBR team, both reporting to Marko? Maybe their team structure is as bad as McLaren underneath!MaxPB said:
It could well be that Tost hasn't been involved in the negotiation given that McLaren would be talking to Horner and Dr Marko rather than Tost. He may have been completely blindsided by everything this morning like the rest of the F1 world.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Max, could well be right.
0 -
Actually, I do. In domestic administration and fiscal management I think this Government is better and exhibits greater competence. It also doesn’t threaten my civil liberties and I think it’s better connected to and more respectful of public opinion.rottenborough said:
Even if you disagreed with every single thing Blair and Brown did, how can you think this shitshow of utter chaos and panic is better run than those governments?Sean_F said:
Nobody seems to like Blair and Brown any more.TheScreamingEagles said:Bring back Dave says the country.
https://twitter.com/yougov/status/1022389688743673857?s=21
My main criticisms lie in the field of defence and foreign policy, but I think that’s a niche taste.0 -
-
Unless revoked by another referendum, of course.Casino_Royale said:
I think you’re falling for the hyperbole a bit there.Cyclefree said:
I thought that one of the legal arguments the government lawyers wanted to use in the Final Miller case (but were forbidden from doing for political reasons) was that Article 50 was revocable.grabcocque said:
The treaty of Lisbon is clear that it takes unanimous consent of the Council, there's no basis at all for thinking the UK government can unilaterally revoke Article 50.Cyclefree said:
Why don't we be mischievous and just revoke Article 50. Then let anyone who disagrees argue before the ECJ that we can't. It'll take years and make everyone look ridiculous.grabcocque said:France is being mischievous there.
The price the EU27 will extract for suspending article 50 will be high. Germany has already said it would expect a "significant" change in British attitudes, whatever that means.
I know, the referendum, Parliament, ERG, Labour, blah, blah.....
But honestly: is it any less sensible than all the other daft suggestions that have been floating around?
Anyway, send the letter in. See what happens. It can't be any more stupid than stockpiling food, ration books etc and "Build your own Anderson shelter" leaflets being sent out to everyone, which seems to be the government's current policy.
Besides which there is no politically viable route for A50 to be revoked. The referendum mandate must be delivered and it’d be even more damaging to our democracy if it is not.0 -
Finally a job that Boris could actually do?rkrkrk said:
To have the best chance of success, the campaign for Remain/Second Referendum should be led by prominent Leavers who have changed their mind.Tykejohnno said:
What a remainer wanting a second go, that not changing minds with many on the remain side.rottenborough said:
At the moment - I don't think there any.0 -
Has Hunt asked him to leave yet ?Scott_P said:0 -
Slightly safer and substantially less financially imperiled. Trick question?rottenborough said:0 -
It's the type of pettifogging job he would be good at. He'd also probably dial down the overwhelming security apparati of the state and terrorism hysteria.rottenborough said:0 -
Isn't that the oldest trick in the EU book?surby said:
Unless revoked by another referendum, of course.Casino_Royale said:
I think you’re falling for the hyperbole a bit there.Cyclefree said:
I thought that one of the legal arguments the government lawyers wanted to use in the Final Miller case (but were forbidden from doing for political reasons) was that Article 50 was revocable.grabcocque said:
The treaty of Lisbon is clear that it takes unanimous consent of the Council, there's no basis at all for thinking the UK government can unilaterally revoke Article 50.Cyclefree said:
Why don't we be mischievous and just revoke Article 50. Then let anyone who disagrees argue before the ECJ that we can't. It'll take years and make everyone look ridiculous.grabcocque said:France is being mischievous there.
The price the EU27 will extract for suspending article 50 will be high. Germany has already said it would expect a "significant" change in British attitudes, whatever that means.
I know, the referendum, Parliament, ERG, Labour, blah, blah.....
But honestly: is it any less sensible than all the other daft suggestions that have been floating around?
Anyway, send the letter in. See what happens. It can't be any more stupid than stockpiling food, ration books etc and "Build your own Anderson shelter" leaflets being sent out to everyone, which seems to be the government's current policy.
Besides which there is no politically viable route for A50 to be revoked. The referendum mandate must be delivered and it’d be even more damaging to our democracy if it is not.0 -
When do you expect the material impact of Brexit to be sufficient to drive that imperative?Scott_P said:
Of course there is.Casino_Royale said:Besides which there is no politically viable route for A50 to be revoked.
If the material impact of Brexit is sufficient, it will be politically imperative.
I know the case for you is already proven, but public opinion doesn’t support that or anything close. If your argument is that it would, in the eventuality of no deal, then by definition at that point A50 would have already expired, so it’s a moot point.
If you expect a revocation of A50 in the next 8 months, prior to its expiry, then - putting aside the material impact question, which isn’t anywhere close to being proven - I’d be delighted to know where the votes for that would come from.0 -
It's not the EU asking for another referendum.RobD said:
Isn't that the oldest trick in the EU book?0 -
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/07/26/medical-cannabis-made-available-prescription-sajid-javid-announces/
I wonder how far down this slippery slope we'll go.0 -
Still the oldest trick in the EU bookgrabcocque said:
It's not the EU asking for another referendum.RobD said:
Isn't that the oldest trick in the EU book?
0 -
Two fat blunts and a whole large toblerone.RobD said:https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/07/26/medical-cannabis-made-available-prescription-sajid-javid-announces/
I wonder how far down this slippery slope we'll go.0 -
An historically unusual first move by the extreme left?Dura_Ace said:
It's the type of pettifogging job he would be good at. He'd also probably dial down the overwhelming security apparati of the state and terrorism hysteria.rottenborough said:0 -
Quite aside from the lack of public support for that please explain to me how that bill gets drafted, voted upon, and becomes law (all accommodated in the parliamentary timetable) in the next 8 months together with official campaigns funded and established, a full campaign period run and the result declared at the same time the Government is carrying out the negotiations and trying to pass a series of other bills as primary legislation to prepare for Brexit?surby said:
Unless revoked by another referendum, of course.Casino_Royale said:
I think you’re falling for the hyperbole a bit there.Cyclefree said:
I thought that one of the legal arguments the government lawyers wanted to use in the Final Miller case (but were forbidden from doing for political reasons) was that Article 50 was revocable.grabcocque said:
The treaty of Lisbon is clear that it takes unanimous consent of the Council, there's no basis at all for thinking the UK government can unilaterally revoke Article 50.Cyclefree said:
Why don't we be mischievous and just revoke Article 50. Then let anyone who disagrees argue before the ECJ that we can't. It'll take years and make everyone look ridiculous.grabcocque said:France is being mischievous there.
The price the EU27 will extract for suspending article 50 will be high. Germany has already said it would expect a "significant" change in British attitudes, whatever that means.
I know, the referendum, Parliament, ERG, Labour, blah, blah.....
But honestly: is it any less sensible than all the other daft suggestions that have been floating around?
Anyway, send the letter in. See what happens. It can't be any more stupid than stockpiling food, ration books etc and "Build your own Anderson shelter" leaflets being sent out to everyone, which seems to be the government's current policy.
Besides which there is no politically viable route for A50 to be revoked. The referendum mandate must be delivered and it’d be even more damaging to our democracy if it is not.0 -
It's preferable to having everyone zonked on anti-depressants or pain killers like the US.RobD said:https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/07/26/medical-cannabis-made-available-prescription-sajid-javid-announces/
I wonder how far down this slippery slope we'll go.0 -
I don't expect him to be moved from being Chancellor where he will effectively run the Government and disappoint a lot of those hoping for a big splurge of money.rottenborough said:
If he were Home Secretary, I believe Labour's plan is to force every Conservative member or activist to re-locate to Surrey where they will be fenced in with a large fence (gaps only for the M25 and A3).
I'm looking forward to the movie with Kurt Russell as Boris Johnson in "Escape from Surrey" - the Labour Prime Minister's plane crash-lands near Godalming and Russell is sent in to get the PM out from marauding hordes of Conservatives.
A certain hit.
0 -
Canada is legalising it all nationwide in just a few weeks, and for recreational use too.RobD said:https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/07/26/medical-cannabis-made-available-prescription-sajid-javid-announces/
I wonder how far down this slippery slope we'll go.
I’m interested to know how Canadian public opinion reacts to most public spaces reeling of pungent ganje whenever they go, but perhaps they’ll be ok with it.0 -
I mean, quite. There are plenty of prescription painkillers and tranquilisers that will get you way further off your tits than a bong full of chronic.MaxPB said:
It's preferable to having everyone zonked on anti-depressants or pain killers like the US.RobD said:https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/07/26/medical-cannabis-made-available-prescription-sajid-javid-announces/
I wonder how far down this slippery slope we'll go.0 -
That’s quite funny.Scott_P said:0 -
I suppose it's good at keeping the proles placated.Casino_Royale said:
Canada is legalising it all nationwide in just a few weeks, and for recreational use too.RobD said:https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/07/26/medical-cannabis-made-available-prescription-sajid-javid-announces/
I wonder how far down this slippery slope we'll go.
I’m interested to know how Canadian public opinion reacts to most public spaces reeling of pungent ganje whenever they go, but perhaps they’ll be ok with it.0 -
That would be troubling indeed.Sean_F said:
I doubt that the EC is biased (after all, they fined the Lib Dem Remain campaign), but what if Grimes can indeed prove bias?AlastairMeeks said:
They have not sought funding on procedural flaws. They claim bias. They have chosen to undermine the institution, not just challenge the decision. They are continuing to undermine every aspect of civic society.ydoethur said:
I think in this case you're picking a bad horse to back, frankly. If the EC have fined the campaign group, that's one thing. If they've fined an individual I think there is a very real possibility they have exceeded their powers and potentially compromised a criminal investigation. In which case they don't deserve support but they do - in a democratic system - deserve a pounding.AlastairMeeks said:
My original post was entirely about the choices that Leavers are making. They are choosing to undermine Britain's institutions rather than supporting them.
I have at no point suggested that they did not have the right to do so. I asked what institutions Leavers think the country should eventually be uniting behind? Right now they appear to want to destroy every civic institution in the country.
One of the more important features of a democracy is the ability to criticise our institutions. For example, it is vital for the health of democracy that we are able to say loudly and clearly that OFSTED and OFQUAL are incompetent tenth-rate loons who don't give a flying fuck about the education of children and actively hinder it by their empire-building mentality and lack of expertise. It is also vital to the health of every teacher or we would all die of apoplexy from suppressed rage.
In this case, the EC's verdict will be reviewed. If the facts of the case are as stated, it is likely the judge will find their comments justified. However, it will also lead to a further clarification of their powers which can only be in everyone's interests.
I think actually therefore whatever the motivation this is a useful case.
Not a scintilla of evidence has so far been made public to suggest that he can. Yet a lot of senior Leavers have jumped on his bandwagon.0 -
I live in Hackney. Everywhere already honks of skunk. Legalisation wouldn't change that, although it would probably reduce the rate of gun homicides though, but no Tory cares about that because it's just poor ethnics dying.RobD said:
I suppose it's good at keeping the proles placated.Casino_Royale said:
Canada is legalising it all nationwide in just a few weeks, and for recreational use too.RobD said:https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/07/26/medical-cannabis-made-available-prescription-sajid-javid-announces/
I wonder how far down this slippery slope we'll go.
I’m interested to know how Canadian public opinion reacts to most public spaces reeling of pungent ganje whenever they go, but perhaps they’ll be ok with it.0 -
Labour had 13 years to legalise and did nothing. I don't particularly think they care too much about black and Turkish gangs killing each other in East and South London either.grabcocque said:
I live in Hackney. Everywhere already honks of skunk. Legalisation wouldn't change that, although it would probably reduce the rate of gun homicides though, but no Tory cares about that because it's just poor ethnics dying.RobD said:
I suppose it's good at keeping the proles placated.Casino_Royale said:
Canada is legalising it all nationwide in just a few weeks, and for recreational use too.RobD said:https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/07/26/medical-cannabis-made-available-prescription-sajid-javid-announces/
I wonder how far down this slippery slope we'll go.
I’m interested to know how Canadian public opinion reacts to most public spaces reeling of pungent ganje whenever they go, but perhaps they’ll be ok with it.0 -
"My friends, the great British public have a wonderful trait.IanB2 said:
Finally a job that Boris could actually do?rkrkrk said:
To have the best chance of success, the campaign for Remain/Second Referendum should be led by prominent Leavers who have changed their mind.Tykejohnno said:
What a remainer wanting a second go, that not changing minds with many on the remain side.rottenborough said:
At the moment - I don't think there any.
When they feel they are being bullied or pushed around, they grit their teeth, dig their heels in harder, fight ever more ferociously, and frankly tend to triumph.
When we were warned that leaving the EU could lead to World War III, or that punishment budgets would damage our public services, we quite rightly rejected those ridiculous scare stories.
But this instinct, has I suspect, led us astray.
We now see that even though the Remain campaign misled us in many ways, they were on to something when they talked about economic damage.
Frankly, Brussels did not take David Cameron seriously when he went to renegotiate the EU. Well we certainly showed those Brussels bureaucrats on June 23rd.
The situation now could not be more different. We have stood up to Europe. We have shown them our spine. we can now negotiate from a position of strength. As [classical historical reference] did...
Europe know we are prepared to leave, and indeed we should still leave if they will not reform.
But what a terrible shame if we leave now, just as Europe reforms in the way we have long argued?
I've spent the past two years touring the European capitals, and I can promise you the British position is winning. We need controls on immigration, and for the first time, our European partners are agreeing etc. etc.
Your faithful servant,
Boris Johnson"
0 -
Dear BoZorkrkrk said:"My friends, the great British public have a wonderful trait.
When they feel they are being bullied or pushed around, they grit their teeth, dig their heels in harder, fight ever more ferociously, and frankly tend to triumph.
When our politicians lie to us for personal gain, we tend to tell them fuck right off.
Your faithful voter...0 -
I think he’d use it to settle scores.Dura_Ace said:
It's the type of pettifogging job he would be good at. He'd also probably dial down the overwhelming security apparati of the state and terrorism hysteria.rottenborough said:
It’s quite possible he’d take action (or inaction) that gets British citizens killed as well. What we don’t see (still less appreciate) on a day-to-day basis is all the action the security services take to prevent and foil terrorist plots, quite a few of which require Home Secretary level approval.0 -
Yeh, that's exactly the advice Steve Bannon has been giving Boris lately.rkrkrk said:
"My friends, the great British public have a wonderful trait.IanB2 said:
Finally a job that Boris could actually do?rkrkrk said:
To have the best chance of success, the campaign for Remain/Second Referendum should be led by prominent Leavers who have changed their mind.Tykejohnno said:
What a remainer wanting a second go, that not changing minds with many on the remain side.rottenborough said:
At the moment - I don't think there any.
When they feel they are being bullied or pushed around, they grit their teeth, dig their heels in harder, fight ever more ferociously, and frankly tend to triumph.
When we were warned that leaving the EU could lead to World War III, or that punishment budgets would damage our public services, we quite rightly rejected those ridiculous scare stories.
But this instinct, has I suspect, led us astray.
We now see that even though the Remain campaign misled us in many ways, they were on to something when they talked about economic damage.
Frankly, Brussels did not take David Cameron seriously when he went to renegotiate the EU. Well we certainly showed those Brussels bureaucrats on June 23rd.
The situation now could not be more different. We have stood up to Europe. We have shown them our spine. we can now negotiate from a position of strength. As [classical historical reference] did...
Europe know we are prepared to leave, and indeed we should still leave if they will not reform.
But what a terrible shame if we leave now, just as Europe reforms in the way we have long argued?
I've spent the past two years touring the European capitals, and I can promise you the British position is winning. We need controls on immigration, and for the first time, our European partners are agreeing etc. etc.
Your faithful servant,
Boris Johnson" 0 -
There’s a total breakdown of trust on both sides.AlastairMeeks said:
That would be troubling indeed.Sean_F said:
I doubt that the EC is biased (after all, they fined the Lib Dem Remain campaign), but what if Grimes can indeed prove bias?AlastairMeeks said:
They have not sought funding on procedural flaws. They claim bias. They have chosen to undermine the institution, not just challenge the decision. They are continuing to undermine every aspect of civic society.ydoethur said:
I think in this case you're picking a bad horse to back, frankly. If the EC have fined the campaign group, that's one thing. If they've fined an individual I think there is a very real possibility they have exceeded their powers and potentially compromised a criminal investigation. In which case they don't deserve support but they do - in a democratic system - deserve a pounding.AlastairMeeks said:
My original post was entirely about the choices that Leavers are making. They are choosing to undermine Britain's institutions rather than supporting them.
I have at no point suggested that they did not have the right to do so. I asked what institutions Leavers think the country should eventually be uniting behind? Right now they appear to want to destroy every civic institution in the country.
One of the more important features of a democracy is the ability to criticise our institutions. For example, it is vital for the health of democracy that we are able to say loudly and clearly that OFSTED and OFQUAL are incompetent tenth-rate loons who don't give a flying fuck about the education of children and actively hinder it by their empire-building mentality and lack of expertise. It is also vital to the health of every teacher or we would all die of apoplexy from suppressed rage.
In this case, the EC's verdict will be reviewed. If the facts of the case are as stated, it is likely the judge will find their comments justified. However, it will also lead to a further clarification of their powers which can only be in everyone's interests.
I think actually therefore whatever the motivation this is a useful case.
Not a scintilla of evidence has so far been made public to suggest that he can. Yet a lot of senior Leavers have jumped on his bandwagon.0 -
How about Mark Reckless?IanB2 said:
Finally a job that Boris could actually do?rkrkrk said:
To have the best chance of success, the campaign for Remain/Second Referendum should be led by prominent Leavers who have changed their mind.Tykejohnno said:
What a remainer wanting a second go, that not changing minds with many on the remain side.rottenborough said:
At the moment - I don't think there any.0 -
The side that got caught cheating don't trust the impartial judges?Casino_Royale said:There’s a total breakdown of trust on both sides.
0 -
I doubt you could find one voter in ten thousand who knew the fuck who he was.Sean_F said:
How about Mark Reckless?IanB2 said:
Finally a job that Boris could actually do?rkrkrk said:
To have the best chance of success, the campaign for Remain/Second Referendum should be led by prominent Leavers who have changed their mind.Tykejohnno said:
What a remainer wanting a second go, that not changing minds with many on the remain side.rottenborough said:
At the moment - I don't think there any.0 -
Nah, I'd want to hear that from the sainted Tony. Haven't heard him say a word so far.rkrkrk said:
"My friends, the great British public have a wonderful trait.IanB2 said:
Finally a job that Boris could actually do?rkrkrk said:
To have the best chance of success, the campaign for Remain/Second Referendum should be led by prominent Leavers who have changed their mind.Tykejohnno said:
What a remainer wanting a second go, that not changing minds with many on the remain side.rottenborough said:
At the moment - I don't think there any.
When they feel they are being bullied or pushed around, they grit their teeth, dig their heels in harder, fight ever more ferociously, and frankly tend to triumph.
When we were warned that leaving the EU could lead to World War III, or that punishment budgets would damage our public services, we quite rightly rejected those ridiculous scare stories.
But this instinct, has I suspect, led us astray.
We now see that even though the Remain campaign misled us in many ways, they were on to something when they talked about economic damage.
Frankly, Brussels did not take David Cameron seriously when he went to renegotiate the EU. Well we certainly showed those Brussels bureaucrats on June 23rd.
The situation now could not be more different. We have stood up to Europe. We have shown them our spine. we can now negotiate from a position of strength. As [classical historical reference] did...
Europe know we are prepared to leave, and indeed we should still leave if they will not reform.
But what a terrible shame if we leave now, just as Europe reforms in the way we have long argued?
I've spent the past two years touring the European capitals, and I can promise you the British position is winning. We need controls on immigration, and for the first time, our European partners are agreeing etc. etc.
Your faithful servant,
Boris Johnson"0 -
Bear in mind in this discussion, the current alternative, who is in post, is Diane Abbott.Casino_Royale said:
I think he’d use it to settle scores.Dura_Ace said:
It's the type of pettifogging job he would be good at. He'd also probably dial down the overwhelming security apparati of the state and terrorism hysteria.rottenborough said:
It’s quite possible he’d take action (or inaction) that gets British citizens killed as well. What we don’t see (still less appreciate) on a day-to-day basis is all the action the security services take to prevent and foil terrorist plots, quite a few of which require Home Secretary level approval.0 -
Great claims require great proof. On the evidence so far made public, the obvious conclusion is that Matthew Elliot is seeking to trash public trust in the Electoral Commission to save his own scrawny neck. Other Leavers should have no part in it.Casino_Royale said:
There’s a total breakdown of trust on both sides.AlastairMeeks said:
That would be troubling indeed.Sean_F said:
I doubt that the EC is biased (after all, they fined the Lib Dem Remain campaign), but what if Grimes can indeed prove bias?AlastairMeeks said:
They have not sought funding on procedural flaws. They claim bias. They have chosen to undermine the institution, not just challenge the decision. They are continuing to undermine every aspect of civic society.
Not a scintilla of evidence has so far been made public to suggest that he can. Yet a lot of senior Leavers have jumped on his bandwagon.
Of course, some of the very senior Leavers were closely involved with Vote Leave. So perhaps they have their own motivation in destroying public trust in yet another institution.0 -
So it's ISIS getting through the net every time vs state sponsored terrorism against political enemies. Sophie's choice really.rottenborough said:
Bear in mind in this discussion, the current alternative, who is in post, is Diane Abbott.Casino_Royale said:
I think he’d use it to settle scores.Dura_Ace said:
It's the type of pettifogging job he would be good at. He'd also probably dial down the overwhelming security apparati of the state and terrorism hysteria.rottenborough said:
It’s quite possible he’d take action (or inaction) that gets British citizens killed as well. What we don’t see (still less appreciate) on a day-to-day basis is all the action the security services take to prevent and foil terrorist plots, quite a few of which require Home Secretary level approval.0 -
Which would be 'brave' given something, somewhere is almost certain to happen (despite government's best efforts, who ever was in power...)Dura_Ace said:
It's the type of pettifogging job he would be good at. He'd also probably dial down the overwhelming security apparati of the state and terrorism hysteria.rottenborough said:0 -
Boris could do Mark Reckless, but I doubt he'd want to.Sean_F said:
How about Mark Reckless?IanB2 said:
Finally a job that Boris could actually do?rkrkrk said:
To have the best chance of success, the campaign for Remain/Second Referendum should be led by prominent Leavers who have changed their mind.Tykejohnno said:
What a remainer wanting a second go, that not changing minds with many on the remain side.rottenborough said:
At the moment - I don't think there any.0 -
That's not much of an argument, either of them, but in any case Labour was actively hostile and even sacked the Home Office's chief scientific adviser, Professor David Nutt, who'd pointed out the lack of any scientific or medical rationale underlying drug classification (and compared ecstasy with horse-riding).MaxPB said:
Labour had 13 years to legalise and did nothing. I don't particularly think they care too much about black and Turkish gangs killing each other in East and South London either.grabcocque said:
I live in Hackney. Everywhere already honks of skunk. Legalisation wouldn't change that, although it would probably reduce the rate of gun homicides though, but no Tory cares about that because it's just poor ethnics dying.RobD said:
I suppose it's good at keeping the proles placated.Casino_Royale said:
Canada is legalising it all nationwide in just a few weeks, and for recreational use too.RobD said:https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/07/26/medical-cannabis-made-available-prescription-sajid-javid-announces/
I wonder how far down this slippery slope we'll go.
I’m interested to know how Canadian public opinion reacts to most public spaces reeling of pungent ganje whenever they go, but perhaps they’ll be ok with it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Nutt#Government_positions0 -
NEW THREAD
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Politicians have remarkably little practical influence over intelligence & security priorities. Depending on your politics, that will either reassure or give you the williesMaxPB said:
So it's ISIS getting through the net every time vs state sponsored terrorism against political enemies. Sophie's choice really.rottenborough said:
Bear in mind in this discussion, the current alternative, who is in post, is Diane Abbott.Casino_Royale said:
I think he’d use it to settle scores.Dura_Ace said:
It's the type of pettifogging job he would be good at. He'd also probably dial down the overwhelming security apparati of the state and terrorism hysteria.rottenborough said:
It’s quite possible he’d take action (or inaction) that gets British citizens killed as well. What we don’t see (still less appreciate) on a day-to-day basis is all the action the security services take to prevent and foil terrorist plots, quite a few of which require Home Secretary level approval.
. 0 -
That may be the case for some of the leaders of Vote Leave, but I think at the grassroots level many Leavers are paranoid that a number of privileged and influential people are seeking to find hooks onto which they can either invalidate or reverse the result, which isn’t wholly without justification.AlastairMeeks said:
Great claims require great proof. On the evidence so far made public, the obvious conclusion is that Matthew Elliot is seeking to trash public trust in the Electoral Commission to save his own scrawny neck. Other Leavers should have no part in it.Casino_Royale said:
There’s a total breakdown of trust on both sides.AlastairMeeks said:
That would be troubling indeed.Sean_F said:
I doubt that the EC is biased (after all, they fined the Lib Dem Remain campaign), but what if Grimes can indeed prove bias?AlastairMeeks said:
They have not sought funding on procedural flaws. They claim bias. They have chosen to undermine the institution, not just challenge the decision. They are continuing to undermine every aspect of civic society.
Not a scintilla of evidence has so far been made public to suggest that he can. Yet a lot of senior Leavers have jumped on his bandwagon.
Of course, some of the very senior Leavers were closely involved with Vote Leave. So perhaps they have their own motivation in destroying public trust in yet another institution.
For the avoidance of doubt I don’t think the electoral commission are exhibiting strategic bias and I haven’t examined the merits of this case (on either side) myself.0 -
A letter intended for very limited distribution, then ?rkrkrk said:
"My friends.....IanB2 said:
Finally a job that Boris could actually do?rkrkrk said:
To have the best chance of success, the campaign for Remain/Second Referendum should be led by prominent Leavers who have changed their mind.Tykejohnno said:
What a remainer wanting a second go, that not changing minds with many on the remain side.rottenborough said:
At the moment - I don't think there any.0
This discussion has been closed.