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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » NEW PB / Polling Matters podcast – Episode 136 Deal or no deal

SystemSystem Posts: 11,003
edited July 2018 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » NEW PB / Polling Matters podcast – Episode 136 Deal or no deal Brexit, support for the far-right and the death penalty and more

On this week’s PB / Polling Matters podcast Keiran Pedley and Leo Barasi look at the levels of public support for a no-deal Brexit and how that may factor into decisions in Westminster.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,195
    First!
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,137
    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,241
    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    I wouldn't put them at that level
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    FPT
    rottenborough said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    rottenborough said:

    ERG == Economic Ruin Group: Adonis.

    Adonis = UHB = Unelected Has-Been
    We will see. At the moment he looks to be one of the most energetic people fighting this utter madness.
    Doesn't say much. As the old saying goes if Adonis is the answer, you're asking the wrong question.
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,035
    Doesn't this break data protection laws ?

    https://news.sky.com/story/ryanair-publishes-striking-workers-payslips-11447839
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    another_richard said:

    Doesn't this break data protection laws ?

    https://news.sky.com/story/ryanair-publishes-striking-workers-payslips-11447839

    Not sure didn't the BBC just do this? Where is the line drawn?

    Are names etc redacted?
  • Options
    brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    edited July 2018
    another_richard said:

    Doesn't this break data protection laws ?

    https://news.sky.com/story/ryanair-publishes-striking-workers-payslips-11447839

    Many sector bodies including local authorities have had to publish individual salaries of senior staff and their job title and the persons name unless they request so in the latter case. Not sure why this is any different as long as you block out addresses and NI (or PPS) and tax codes?

  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,243
    https://twitter.com/MarkFoxNews/status/1022231803053178885
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,137
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/MarkFoxNews/status/1022231803053178885

    Hope this remains the case. Although Trump will say 'fake news'.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,609
    Catching up very late on the Lab MP charged with perverting the course of justice, I presume the assumption is that in the ordinary course of events such a marginal seat would comfortably remain in opposition hands, particularly when the government is in such disarray?
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,929
    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    Why do groups of ever-so-patriotic Nationalists tolerate an American coming over here telling them what to do?
  • Options
    FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    I wouldn't put them at that level
    Can we please not have our Conservative party turn into the Republicans? Populist left vs. populist right is not a great choice for those of us who actually care about facts and reasonable conduct.
  • Options
    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    dixiedean said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    Why do groups of ever-so-patriotic Nationalists tolerate an American coming over here telling them what to do?
    Well, exactly....
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,543
    kle4 said:

    Catching up very late on the Lab MP charged with perverting the course of justice, I presume the assumption is that in the ordinary course of events such a marginal seat would comfortably remain in opposition hands, particularly when the government is in such disarray?

    There is no such thing as "the ordinary course of events" these days.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,543
    Freggles said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    I wouldn't put them at that level
    Can we please not have our Conservative party turn into the Republicans? Populist left vs. populist right is not a great choice for those of us who actually care about facts and reasonable conduct.
    Well said.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,609
    edited July 2018
    Benpointer said:

    kle4 said:

    Catching up very late on the Lab MP charged with perverting the course of justice, I presume the assumption is that in the ordinary course of events such a marginal seat would comfortably remain in opposition hands, particularly when the government is in such disarray?

    There is no such thing as "the ordinary course of events" these days.
    These things are relative.

    What of the conclusion though? I tend to overestimate Labour's chances (although in 2017 even expecting them to do better than most, I too underestimated them), but I just don't see how, if a by-election were to come at any time in that seat, the Tories could snatch it - even losing by a little, their vote went up quite a bit, and that will be hard to sustain.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,609
    dixiedean said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    Why do groups of ever-so-patriotic Nationalists tolerate an American coming over here telling them what to do?
    It's a fair question. I've never understood this seemingly recent trend of nationalists trying to stoke further nationalism in other places.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,609
    Freggles said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    I wouldn't put them at that level
    Populist left vs. populist right is not a great choice for those of us who actually care about facts and reasonable conduct.
    I thought you types went extinct back in the 90s.
  • Options
    brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    edited July 2018
    rottenborough said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/MarkFoxNews/status/1022231803053178885

    Hope this remains the case. Although Trump will say 'fake news'.
    It's a slightly odd question - does he deserve it? It's not quite the same as would you actually vote for Trump in 2020 if he was the Republican candidate.
  • Options
    ElliotElliot Posts: 1,516
    dixiedean said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    Why do groups of ever-so-patriotic Nationalists tolerate an American coming over here telling them what to do?
    I guess if you're nationalistic enough, you regard Americans as rightfully British subjects.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,929
    kle4 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    Why do groups of ever-so-patriotic Nationalists tolerate an American coming over here telling them what to do?
    It's a fair question. I've never understood this seemingly recent trend of nationalists trying to stoke further nationalism in other places.
    Indeed. And if they were to become the largest bloc in the EU Parliament, how would they co-operate?
    By definition they wouldn't have interests in common.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,951
    dixiedean said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    Why do groups of ever-so-patriotic Nationalists tolerate an American coming over here telling them what to do?
    Old Jools will clear that up for you.

    https://twitter.com/JuliaHB1/status/1022022000255086592
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,241
    Freggles said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    I wouldn't put them at that level
    Can we please not have our Conservative party turn into the Republicans? Populist left vs. populist right is not a great choice for those of us who actually care about facts and reasonable conduct.
    Spot on - well said
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,609
    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    Why do groups of ever-so-patriotic Nationalists tolerate an American coming over here telling them what to do?
    It's a fair question. I've never understood this seemingly recent trend of nationalists trying to stoke further nationalism in other places.
    Indeed. And if they were to become the largest bloc in the EU Parliament, how would they co-operate?
    By definition they wouldn't have interests in common.
    Well I get banding together for the purposes of an EU grouping, but a few years back it felt like Farage was visiting everywhere he could trying to talk up some local nationalist, which really didn't seem like much of his business.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,914
    Boris Johnson hanging out with a white supremacist. What a surprise.

    In other news I drank a gallon of grappa today. My head will hurt significantly tomorrow.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,137
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Freggles said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    I wouldn't put them at that level
    Can we please not have our Conservative party turn into the Republicans? Populist left vs. populist right is not a great choice for those of us who actually care about facts and reasonable conduct.
    Spot on - well said
    There have been reports/rumours of an uptick in new tory members joining. Kippers and others, trying to game the forthcoming leadership?

    It would not take much to sufficiently swamp the Tories who have a membership of maybe 70K.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,929
    SeanT said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    dixiedean said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    Why do groups of ever-so-patriotic Nationalists tolerate an American coming over here telling them what to do?
    Well, exactly....
    Bannon is clever. He helped Trump win. More, please.
    So clever he advanced the cause of candidates so patently unsuitable that the Republicans lost a race in Alabama amongst others. And was fired by Trump.
    So. yeah, more please.
  • Options
    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    dixiedean said:

    SeanT said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    dixiedean said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    Why do groups of ever-so-patriotic Nationalists tolerate an American coming over here telling them what to do?
    Well, exactly....
    Bannon is clever. He helped Trump win. More, please.
    So clever he advanced the cause of candidates so patently unsuitable that the Republicans lost a race in Alabama amongst others. And was fired by Trump.
    So. yeah, more please.
    No one on this site should be surprised that SeanT of all people likes Bannon (and probably Trump as well).
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,241
    rottenborough said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Freggles said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    I wouldn't put them at that level
    Can we please not have our Conservative party turn into the Republicans? Populist left vs. populist right is not a great choice for those of us who actually care about facts and reasonable conduct.
    Spot on - well said
    There have been reports/rumours of an uptick in new tory members joining. Kippers and others, trying to game the forthcoming leadership?

    It would not take much to sufficiently swamp the Tories who have a membership of maybe 70K.
    Yes that is true and makes Boris more likely, unfortunately
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,609
    rottenborough said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Freggles said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    I wouldn't put them at that level
    Can we please not have our Conservative party turn into the Republicans? Populist left vs. populist right is not a great choice for those of us who actually care about facts and reasonable conduct.
    Spot on - well said
    There have been reports/rumours of an uptick in new tory members joining. Kippers and others, trying to game the forthcoming leadership?

    It would not take much to sufficiently swamp the Tories who have a membership of maybe 70K.
    Quite a big recent drop, it was supposedly estimated at 124k recently

    https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN05125#_ftn2
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    SouthamObserver said:

    Boris Johnson hanging out with a white supremacist. What a surprise.

    In other news I drank a gallon of grappa today. My head will hurt significantly tomorrow.

    IIRC Bannon was fired by Trump for being too right-wing.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,609
    The_Apocalypse said:

    dixiedean said:

    SeanT said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    dixiedean said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    Why do groups of ever-so-patriotic Nationalists tolerate an American coming over here telling them what to do?
    Well, exactly....
    Bannon is clever. He helped Trump win. More, please.
    So clever he advanced the cause of candidates so patently unsuitable that the Republicans lost a race in Alabama amongst others. And was fired by Trump.
    So. yeah, more please.
    No one on this site should be surprised that SeanT of all people likes Bannon (and probably Trump as well).
    As I recall he, like most people, reluctantly backed Hillary. Check again tomorrow.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,609
    AndyJS said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    Boris Johnson hanging out with a white supremacist. What a surprise.

    In other news I drank a gallon of grappa today. My head will hurt significantly tomorrow.

    IIRC Bannon was fired by Trump for being too right-wing.
    I doubt Trump cares about such things. I would imagine he cares more whether a person was mean to him (by his own definitions) and whether they were becoming a hindrance.
  • Options
    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    rottenborough said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Freggles said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    I wouldn't put them at that level
    Can we please not have our Conservative party turn into the Republicans? Populist left vs. populist right is not a great choice for those of us who actually care about facts and reasonable conduct.
    Spot on - well said
    There have been reports/rumours of an uptick in new tory members joining. Kippers and others, trying to game the forthcoming leadership?

    It would not take much to sufficiently swamp the Tories who have a membership of maybe 70K.
    Tim Bale's recent research showed that the Tory membership is pretty right wing in any case - I doubt that there's that much difference between them and Kippers.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,241
    The_Apocalypse said:

    rottenborough said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Freggles said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    I wouldn't put them at that level
    Can we please not have our Conservative party turn into the Republicans? Populist left vs. populist right is not a great choice for those of us who actually care about facts and reasonable conduct.
    Spot on - well said
    There have been reports/rumours of an uptick in new tory members joining. Kippers and others, trying to game the forthcoming leadership?

    It would not take much to sufficiently swamp the Tories who have a membership of maybe 70K.
    Tim Bale's recent research showed that the Tory membership is pretty right wing in any case - I doubt that there's that much difference between them and Kippers.
    I am a member and there is a chasm of immense proportions between myself and UKIP
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,929
    The_Apocalypse said:

    dixiedean said:

    SeanT said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    dixiedean said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    Why do groups of ever-so-patriotic Nationalists tolerate an American coming over here telling them what to do?
    Well, exactly....
    Bannon is clever. He helped Trump win. More, please.
    So clever he advanced the cause of candidates so patently unsuitable that the Republicans lost a race in Alabama amongst others. And was fired by Trump.
    So. yeah, more please.
    No one on this site should be surprised that SeanT of all people likes Bannon (and probably Trump as well).
    I'm not tbh. Am surprised by his "Bannon is clever" though. He may well be, but he is not politically astute. ("Tommy Robinson is the backbone of the country" anyone?)
    Thought SeanT would recognise a professional bullshitter and provocateur when he saw one.
  • Options
    brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    edited July 2018
    kle4 said:

    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    Why do groups of ever-so-patriotic Nationalists tolerate an American coming over here telling them what to do?
    It's a fair question. I've never understood this seemingly recent trend of nationalists trying to stoke further nationalism in other places.
    Indeed. And if they were to become the largest bloc in the EU Parliament, how would they co-operate?
    By definition they wouldn't have interests in common.
    Well I get banding together for the purposes of an EU grouping, but a few years back it felt like Farage was visiting everywhere he could trying to talk up some local nationalist, which really didn't seem like much of his business.
    I don't see much sign of a single grouping. Orban allies with Mrs Merkel in the EPP, the True Finns, Polish PiS governing party and the Sweden Democrats ally with the UK Tories in the ECR and Salvini's Lega ally with Le Pen and Wilders plus of course Janice Atkinson formerly of UKIP in the ENF! And 5 star movement still ally with UKIP in the EFDD along with some right wing French MEPs who split from the Front National.

    Of course things could all realign post the elections next May but I expect the EPP under Juncker and the socialists will remain the largest groupings. And as the elections are conducted under PR for the most part it hard for any group to control the agenda of parliament anyway,
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,606
    The_Apocalypse said:

    rottenborough said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Freggles said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    I wouldn't put them at that level
    Can we please not have our Conservative party turn into the Republicans? Populist left vs. populist right is not a great choice for those of us who actually care about facts and reasonable conduct.
    Spot on - well said
    There have been reports/rumours of an uptick in new tory members joining. Kippers and others, trying to game the forthcoming leadership?

    It would not take much to sufficiently swamp the Tories who have a membership of maybe 70K.
    Tim Bale's recent research showed that the Tory membership is pretty right wing in any case - I doubt that there's that much difference between them and Kippers.
    Dangerously close to libel there...
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    The_Apocalypse said:

    rottenborough said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Freggles said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    I wouldn't put them at that level
    Can we please not have our Conservative party turn into the Republicans? Populist left vs. populist right is not a great choice for those of us who actually care about facts and reasonable conduct.
    Spot on - well said
    There have been reports/rumours of an uptick in new tory members joining. Kippers and others, trying to game the forthcoming leadership?

    It would not take much to sufficiently swamp the Tories who have a membership of maybe 70K.
    Tim Bale's recent research showed that the Tory membership is pretty right wing in any case - I doubt that there's that much difference between them and Kippers.
    You would be wrong.

    Very, very wrong.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,609
    brendan16 said:

    kle4 said:

    dixiedean said:

    kle4 said:

    dixiedean said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    Why do groups of ever-so-patriotic Nationalists tolerate an American coming over here telling them what to do?
    It's a fair question. I've never understood this seemingly recent trend of nationalists trying to stoke further nationalism in other places.
    Indeed. And if they were to become the largest bloc in the EU Parliament, how would they co-operate?
    By definition they wouldn't have interests in common.
    Well I get banding together for the purposes of an EU grouping, but a few years back it felt like Farage was visiting everywhere he could trying to talk up some local nationalist, which really didn't seem like much of his business.
    I don't see much sign of a single grouping. Orban allies with Mrs Merkel in the EPP, the True Finns, Polish PiS governing party and the Sweden Democrats ally with the Tories in the ECR and Salvini's Lega ally with Le Pen and Wilders plus of course Janice Atkinson formerly of UKIP! And 5 star movement still ally with UKIP in the EFDD along with some right wing French MEPs who split from the Front National.

    Of course things could all realign post the elections next May but I expect the EPP under Juncker and the socialists will remain the largest groupings. And as the elections are conducted under PR for the most part it hard for any group to control the agenda of parliament anyway,
    I have no idea how they group, I merely meant I could understand them collectively doing so (particularly if it was the only option) without it signifying the kind of 'let's help each other out' nationalism some of them seem to want to go for.
  • Options
    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    rottenborough said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Freggles said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    I wouldn't put them at that level
    Can we please not have our Conservative party turn into the Republicans? Populist left vs. populist right is not a great choice for those of us who actually care about facts and reasonable conduct.
    Spot on - well said
    There have been reports/rumours of an uptick in new tory members joining. Kippers and others, trying to game the forthcoming leadership?

    It would not take much to sufficiently swamp the Tories who have a membership of maybe 70K.
    Tim Bale's recent research showed that the Tory membership is pretty right wing in any case - I doubt that there's that much difference between them and Kippers.
    I am a member and there is a chasm of immense proportions between myself and UKIP
    Looking at Bale’s research you seem quite moderate in comparison to most Tory members though.
    @dixiedean I LOL’d when I heard what he said about Tommy Robinson.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,609
    edited July 2018
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    rottenborough said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Freggles said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    I wouldn't put them at that level
    Can we please not have our Conservative party turn into the Republicans? Populist left vs. populist right is not a great choice for those of us who actually care about facts and reasonable conduct.
    Spot on - well said
    There have been reports/rumours of an uptick in new tory members joining. Kippers and others, trying to game the forthcoming leadership?

    It would not take much to sufficiently swamp the Tories who have a membership of maybe 70K.
    Tim Bale's recent research showed that the Tory membership is pretty right wing in any case - I doubt that there's that much difference between them and Kippers.
    I am a member and there is a chasm of immense proportions between myself and UKIP
    Are you typical of the members? Obviously there will be a wide range, but it seems to trend closer to the UKIP wing than any other thesedays. In the same way there are plenty of non-corbynites in Labour, but they trend toward corbynism now.

    But perhaps it is a case of who shouts the loudest.
  • Options
    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    MaxPB said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    rottenborough said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Freggles said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    I wouldn't put them at that level
    Can we please not have our Conservative party turn into the Republicans? Populist left vs. populist right is not a great choice for those of us who actually care about facts and reasonable conduct.
    Spot on - well said
    There have been reports/rumours of an uptick in new tory members joining. Kippers and others, trying to game the forthcoming leadership?

    It would not take much to sufficiently swamp the Tories who have a membership of maybe 70K.
    Tim Bale's recent research showed that the Tory membership is pretty right wing in any case - I doubt that there's that much difference between them and Kippers.
    Dangerously close to libel there...
    MarqueeMark said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    rottenborough said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Freggles said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    I wouldn't put them at that level
    Can we please not have our Conservative party turn into the Republicans? Populist left vs. populist right is not a great choice for those of us who actually care about facts and reasonable conduct.
    Spot on - well said
    There have been reports/rumours of an uptick in new tory members joining. Kippers and others, trying to game the forthcoming leadership?

    It would not take much to sufficiently swamp the Tories who have a membership of maybe 70K.
    Tim Bale's recent research showed that the Tory membership is pretty right wing in any case - I doubt that there's that much difference between them and Kippers.
    You would be wrong.

    Very, very wrong.
    I’ll take you guys word for it, considering you’re both pretty right wing and even you both are balking at the comparison.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,914
    SeanT said:

    kle4 said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    dixiedean said:

    SeanT said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    dixiedean said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    Why do groups of ever-so-patriotic Nationalists tolerate an American coming over here telling them what to do?
    Well, exactly....
    Bannon is clever. He helped Trump win. More, please.
    So clever he advanced the cause of candidates so patently unsuitable that the Republicans lost a race in Alabama amongst others. And was fired by Trump.
    So. yeah, more please.
    No one on this site should be surprised that SeanT of all people likes Bannon (and probably Trump as well).
    As I recall he, like most people, reluctantly backed Hillary. Check again tomorrow.
    I think Trump is an oaf, and I still think that, and as I said at the time I would have very very very reluctantly backed Hillary. Or abstained. I couldn't have voted for that ginger haired buffoon.

    But I am also a realist. Trump is doing OK. He breaks conventions (and offends many) but under his presidency the US economy is doing more than OK, and America has not started any terrible wars.

    Is he any worse than Iraq-invading Dubya or the effeminate narcissist that was Obama? The jury is out.

    Bannon is a different kettle of fish. Read his backstory on Twitter. He is supersmart and super interesting. He is also the inevitable result of all this identity politics, once you have a society where your basic racial or gender identity wins you an advantage in society (hey, I'm black, gay, disabled, trans, an alien, have nine heads, thankyou for getting me into Harvard!) it was inevitable that white American-European caucasian people would eventually develop their own identity politicians.

    Trump is a harbinger of that, Bannon understands this evolution, much more deeply

    He should be feted with rose petals. Good for him.

    I am white. I am proudly British, English, proudly WHITE, a proud inheritor of the Enlightenment and universal suffrage and the Industrial Revolution and liberal democracy and the internet and feminism and the rest, and everything else we white people did, which is basically everything of value for the last 600 years. WE DID THIS.

    White people!!

    Sunil, Max PB, this is where it’s going. White people own goodness. That means you don’t. Good, eh?

  • Options
    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    The_Apocalypse said:

    MaxPB said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    rottenborough said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Freggles said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    I wouldn't put them at that level
    Can we please not have our Conservative party turn into the Republicans? Populist left vs. populist right is not a great choice for those of us who actually care about facts and reasonable conduct.
    Spot on - well said
    There have been reports/rumours of an uptick in new tory members joining. Kippers and others, trying to game the forthcoming leadership?

    It would not take much to sufficiently swamp the Tories who have a membership of maybe 70K.
    Tim Bale's recent research showed that the Tory membership is pretty right wing in any case - I doubt that there's that much difference between them and Kippers.
    Dangerously close to libel there...
    MarqueeMark said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    rottenborough said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Freggles said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    I wouldn't put them at that level
    Can we please not have our Conservative party turn into the Republicans? Populist left vs. populist right is not a great choice for those of us who actually care about facts and reasonable conduct.
    Spot on - well said
    There have been reports/rumours of an uptick in new tory members joining. Kippers and others, trying to game the forthcoming leadership?

    It would not take much to sufficiently swamp the Tories who have a membership of maybe 70K.
    Tim Bale's recent research showed that the Tory membership is pretty right wing in any case - I doubt that there's that much difference between them and Kippers.
    You would be wrong.

    Very, very wrong.
    I’ll take you guys word for it, considering you’re both pretty right wing and even you both are balking at the comparison.
    I think plenty of Tory members have some sympathy with UKIP positions. I don't see that as particularly reprehensible. It's the reason May should worry. I doubt UKIP will be able to field any kind of presence at the next GE, but a good chunk of her voting base is just going to sit on its hands, Corbyn or no.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,307
    SeanT said:

    kle4 said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    dixiedean said:

    SeanT said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    dixiedean said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    Why do groups of ever-so-patriotic Nationalists tolerate an American coming over here telling them what to do?
    Well, exactly....
    Bannon is clever. He helped Trump win. More, please.
    So clever he advanced the cause of candidates so patently unsuitable that the Republicans lost a race in Alabama amongst others. And was fired by Trump.
    So. yeah, more please.
    No one on this site should be surprised that SeanT of all people likes Bannon (and probably Trump as well).
    As I recall he, like most people, reluctantly backed Hillary. Check again tomorrow.
    I think Trump is an oaf, and I still think that, and as I said at the time I would have very very very reluctantly backed Hillary. Or abstained. I couldn't have voted for that ginger haired buffoon.

    But I am also a realist. Trump is doing OK. He breaks conventions (and offends many) but under his presidency the US economy is doing more than OK, and America has not started any terrible wars.

    Is he any worse than Iraq-invading Dubya or the effeminate narcissist that was Obama? The jury is out.

    Bannon is a different kettle of fish. Read his backstory on Twitter. He is supersmart and super interesting. He is also the inevitable result of all this identity politics, once you have a society where your basic racial or gender identity wins you an advantage in society (hey, I'm black, gay, disabled, trans, an alien, have nine heads, thankyou for getting me into Harvard!) it was inevitable that white American-European caucasian people would eventually develop their own identity politicians...
    ‘Would eventually develop’ ?
    You’re missing a couple of centuries of US politics there.
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,241
    kle4 said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    rottenborough said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Freggles said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    I wouldn't put them at that level
    Can we please not have our Conservative party turn into the Republicans? Populist left vs. populist right is not a great choice for those of us who actually care about facts and reasonable conduct.
    Spot on - well said
    There have been reports/rumours of an uptick in new tory members joining. Kippers and others, trying to game the forthcoming leadership?

    It would not take much to sufficiently swamp the Tories who have a membership of maybe 70K.
    Tim Bale's recent research showed that the Tory membership is pretty right wing in any case - I doubt that there's that much difference between them and Kippers.
    I am a member and there is a chasm of immense proportions between myself and UKIP
    Are you typical of the members? Obviously there will be a wide range, but it seems to trend closer to the UKIP wing than any other thesedays. In the same way there are plenty of non-corbynites in Labour, but they trend toward corbynism now.

    But perhaps it is a case of who shouts the loudest.
    I think the membership as a whole trends more to the right but I am a conservative who wants business to succeed (not told to FO), enjoy low taxes, support the NHS and want less regulation but to protect the vulnerable and in particular address mental health. My eldest son (51) has seen 3 of his friends commit suicide when he and they were younger
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,951
    John_M said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    MaxPB said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    rottenborough said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Freggles said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    I wouldn't put them at that level
    Can we please not have our Conservative party turn into the Republicans? Populist left vs. populist right is not a great choice for those of us who actually care about facts and reasonable conduct.
    Spot on - well said
    There have been reports/rumours of an uptick in new tory members joining. Kippers and others, trying to game the forthcoming leadership?

    It would not take much to sufficiently swamp the Tories who have a membership of maybe 70K.
    Tim Bale's recent research showed that the Tory membership is pretty right wing in any case - I doubt that there's that much difference between them and Kippers.
    Dangerously close to libel there...
    MarqueeMark said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    rottenborough said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Freggles said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    I wouldn't put them at that level
    Can we please not have our Conservative party turn into the Republicans? Populist left vs. populist right is not a great choice for those of us who actually care about facts and reasonable conduct.
    Spot on - well said
    There have been reports/rumours of an uptick in new tory members joining. Kippers and others, trying to game the forthcoming leadership?

    It would not take much to sufficiently swamp the Tories who have a membership of maybe 70K.
    Tim Bale's recent research showed that the Tory membership is pretty right wing in any case - I doubt that there's that much difference between them and Kippers.
    You would be wrong.

    Very, very wrong.
    I’ll take you guys word for it, considering you’re both pretty right wing and even you both are balking at the comparison.
    I think plenty of Tory members have some sympathy with UKIP positions. I don't see that as particularly reprehensible. It's the reason May should worry. I doubt UKIP will be able to field any kind of presence at the next GE, but a good chunk of her voting base is just going to sit on its hands, Corbyn or no.
    It's not just reprehensible, it's LIBELLOUS!
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,570
    Philip_Thompson said:

    another_richard said:

    Doesn't this break data protection laws ?

    https://news.sky.com/story/ryanair-publishes-striking-workers-payslips-11447839

    Not sure didn't the BBC just do this? Where is the line drawn?

    Are names etc redacted?
    Yes:

    https://corporate.ryanair.com/news/briefing-note-ryanair-cabin-crew-the-facts/
  • Options
    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    John_M said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    MaxPB said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    rottenborough said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Freggles said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    I wouldn't put them at that level
    Can we please not have our Conservative party turn into the Republicans? Populist left vs. populist right is not a great choice for those of us who actually care about facts and reasonable conduct.
    Spot on - well said
    There have been reports/rumours of an uptick in new tory members joining. Kippers and others, trying to game the forthcoming leadership?

    It would not take much to sufficiently swamp the Tories who have a membership of maybe 70K.
    Tim Bale's recent research showed that the Tory membership is pretty right wing in any case - I doubt that there's that much difference between them and Kippers.
    Dangerously close to libel there...
    MarqueeMark said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    rottenborough said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Freggles said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    I wouldn't put them at that level
    Can we please not have our Conservative party turn into the Republicans? Populist left vs. populist right is not a great choice for those of us who actually care about facts and reasonable conduct.
    Spot on - well said
    There have been reports/rumours of an uptick in new tory members joining. Kippers and others, trying to game the forthcoming leadership?

    It would not take much to sufficiently swamp the Tories who have a membership of maybe 70K.
    Tim Bale's recent research showed that the Tory membership is pretty right wing in any case - I doubt that there's that much difference between them and Kippers.
    You would be wrong.

    Very, very wrong.
    I’ll take you guys word for it, considering you’re both pretty right wing and even you both are balking at the comparison.
    I think plenty of Tory members have some sympathy with UKIP positions. I don't see that as particularly reprehensible. It's the reason May should worry. I doubt UKIP will be able to field any kind of presence at the next GE, but a good chunk of her voting base is just going to sit on its hands, Corbyn or no.
    Why do you think her voting base won’t turn out?
  • Options
    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    Theuniondivvie said:

    John_M said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    MaxPB said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    rottenborough said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Freggles said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    I wouldn't put them at that level
    Can we please not have our Conservative party turn into the Republicans? Populist left vs. populist right is not a great choice for those of us who actually care about facts and reasonable conduct.
    Spot on - well said
    There have been reports/rumours of an uptick in new tory members joining. Kippers and others, trying to game the forthcoming leadership?

    It would not take much to sufficiently swamp the Tories who have a membership of maybe 70K.
    Tim Bale's recent research showed that the Tory membership is pretty right wing in any case - I doubt that there's that much difference between them and Kippers.
    Dangerously close to libel there...
    MarqueeMark said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    rottenborough said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Freggles said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    I wouldn't put them at that level
    Spot on - well said


    It would not take much to sufficiently swamp the Tories who have a membership of maybe 70K.
    Tim Bale's recent research showed that the Tory membership is pretty right wing in any case - I doubt that there's that much difference between them and Kippers.
    You would be wrong.

    Very, very wrong.
    I’ll take you guys word for it, considering you’re both pretty right wing and even you both are balking at the comparison.
    I think plenty of Tory members have some sympathy with UKIP positions. I don't see that as particularly reprehensible. It's the reason May should worry. I doubt UKIP will be able to field any kind of presence at the next GE, but a good chunk of her voting base is just going to sit on its hands, Corbyn or no.
    It's not just reprehensible, it's LIBELLOUS!
    And in capitals as well. Oh my goodness, what have I done.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,609
    John_M said:


    I think plenty of Tory members have some sympathy with UKIP positions. I don't see that as particularly reprehensible. It's the reason May should worry. I doubt UKIP will be able to field any kind of presence at the next GE, but a good chunk of her voting base is just going to sit on its hands, Corbyn or no.

    I think that was always the big danger, particularly (it is planned) 12 years into the government. Whoever replaces May was going to have a tough challenge to rebuild as some kind of hit on Brexit was and is bound to happen. No, Corbyn's task is not easy either, but it is easier.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    O/T

    Want to know when it's going to rain? The England cricket team are playing their 1000th test match next week, so it'll probably start raining just as the match is about to start.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,609
    The_Apocalypse said:



    Why do you think her voting base won’t turn out?

    For me: Dissatisfaction with Brexit, from one side or another, lack of governing competence, and general weariness after 8-12 years and fear of Corbyn receding to a small degree, by enough.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,929
    The_Apocalypse said:

    MaxPB said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    rottenborough said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Freggles said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    I wouldn't put them at that level
    Can we please not have our Conservative party turn into the Republicans? Populist left vs. populist right is not a great choice for those of us who actually care about facts and reasonable conduct.
    Spot on - well said
    There have been reports/rumours of an uptick in new tory members joining. Kippers and others, trying to game the forthcoming leadership?

    It would not take much to sufficiently swamp the Tories who have a membership of maybe 70K.
    Tim Bale's recent research showed that the Tory membership is pretty right wing in any case - I doubt that there's that much difference between them and Kippers.
    Dangerously close to libel there...
    MarqueeMark said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    rottenborough said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Freggles said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    I wouldn't put them at that level
    Can we please not have our Conservative party turn into the Republicans? Populist left vs. populist right is not a great choice for those of us who actually care about facts and reasonable conduct.
    Spot on - well said
    There have been reports/rumours of an uptick in new tory members joining. Kippers and others, trying to game the forthcoming leadership?

    It would not take much to sufficiently swamp the Tories who have a membership of maybe 70K.
    Tim Bale's recent research showed that the Tory membership is pretty right wing in any case - I doubt that there's that much difference between them and Kippers.
    You would be wrong.

    Very, very wrong.
    I’ll take you guys word for it, considering you’re both pretty right wing and even you both are balking at the comparison.
    That these two right-wing, yet obviously the right side of sane, posters should be so firm might be additional evidence that Bannon is not really in touch with "the art of the possible?"
  • Options
    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    The_Apocalypse said:

    John_M said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    MaxPB said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    rottenborough said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Freggles said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    I wouldn't put them at that level
    Spot on - well said
    There have been reports/rumours of an uptick in new tory members joining. Kippers and others, trying to game the forthcoming leadership?

    It would not take much to sufficiently swamp the Tories who have a membership of maybe 70K.
    Tim Bale's recent research showed that the Tory membership is pretty right wing in any case - I doubt that there's that much difference between them and Kippers.
    Dangerously close to libel there...
    MarqueeMark said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    rottenborough said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Freggles said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    I wouldn't put them at that level
    Spot on - well said
    There have been reports/rumours of an uptick in new tory members joining. Kippers and others, trying to game the forthcoming leadership?

    It would not take much to sufficiently swamp the Tories who have a membership of maybe 70K.
    Tim Bale's recent research showed that the Tory membership is pretty right wing in any case - I doubt that there's that much difference between them and Kippers.
    You would be wrong.

    Very, very wrong.
    I’ll take you guys word for it, considering you’re both pretty right wing and even you both are balking at the comparison.
    I think plenty of Tory members have some sympathy with UKIP positions. I don't see that as particularly reprehensible. It's the reason May should worry. I doubt UKIP will be able to field any kind of presence at the next GE, but a good chunk of her voting base is just going to sit on its hands, Corbyn or no.
    Why do you think her voting base won’t turn out?
    Chequers is a 'betrayal'. I think they're barmy, personally, but then I'm barely a Conservative by their lights. If you read the kipperish boards (e.g. Guido), you'll see that the natives are restless.
  • Options
    BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113
    SeanT said:

    kle4 said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    dixiedean said:

    SeanT said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    dixiedean said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    Why do groups of ever-so-patriotic Nationalists tolerate an American coming over here telling them what to do?
    Well, exactly....
    Bannon is clever. He helped Trump win. More, please.
    So clever he advanced the cause of candidates so patently unsuitable that the Republicans lost a race in Alabama amongst others. And was fired by Trump.
    So. yeah, more please.
    No one on this site should be surprised that SeanT of all people likes Bannon (and probably Trump as well).
    As I recall he, like most people, reluctantly backed Hillary. Check again tomorrow.
    I think Trump is an oaf, and I still think that, and as I said at the time I would have very very very reluctantly backed Hillary. Or abstained. I couldn't have voted for that ginger haired buffoon.

    But I am also a realist. Trump is doing OK. He breaks conventions (and offends many) but under his presidency the US economy is doing more than OK, and America has not started any terrible wars.

    Is he any worse than Iraq-invading Dubya or the effeminate narcissist that was Obama? The jury is out.

    Bannon is a different kettle of fish. Read his backstory on Twitter. He is supersmart and super interesting. He is also the inevitable result of all this identity politics, once you have a society where your basic racial or gender identity wins you an advantage in society (hey, I'm black, gay, disabled, trans, an alien, have nine heads, thankyou for getting me into Harvard!) it was inevitable that white American-European caucasian people would eventually develop their own identity politicians.

    Trump is a harbinger of that, Bannon understands this evolution, much more deeply

    He should be feted with rose petals. Good for him.

    I am white. I am proudly British, English, proudly WHITE, a proud inheritor of the Enlightenment and universal suffrage and the Industrial Revolution and liberal democracy and the internet and feminism and the rest, and everything else we white people did, which is basically everything of value for the last 600 years. WE DID THIS.
    On the back of slaves.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,951
    SeanT said:

    dixiedean said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    dixiedean said:

    SeanT said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    dixiedean said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    Why do groups of ever-so-patriotic Nationalists tolerate an American coming over here telling them what to do?
    Well, exactly....
    Bannon is clever. He helped Trump win. More, please.
    So clever he advanced the cause of candidates so patently unsuitable that the Republicans lost a race in Alabama amongst others. And was fired by Trump.
    So. yeah, more please.
    No one on this site should be surprised that SeanT of all people likes Bannon (and probably Trump as well).
    I'm not tbh. Am surprised by his "Bannon is clever" though. He may well be, but he is not politically astute. ("Tommy Robinson is the backbone of the country" anyone?)
    Thought SeanT would recognise a professional bullshitter and provocateur when he saw one.
    Read his Wiki. It is incredible, Possibly one of the most impressive I have ever seen.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Bannon

    From a working class Irish American background he becomes: a significant US Navy officer. a massively successful banker, a major Hollywood producer, important earth scientist, a crucial media mogul. Then moves on to politics, and helps Trump win the presidency. All this in one life???

    Who on here can boast anything like that? No, we can't. He may fire the odd missile which goes astray, but there's no doubting his unique credentials. He is deeply interesting.
    I sense that you're working yourself into a frenzy of D'Annunzioesque fanboism.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,543
    SeanT said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    SeanT said:

    kle4 said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    dixiedean said:

    SeanT said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    dixiedean said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    Why do groups of ever-so-patriotic Nationalists tolerate an American coming over here telling them what to do?
    Well, exactly....
    Bannon is clever. He helped Trump win. More, please.
    So clever he advanced the cause of candidates so patently unsuitable that the Republicans lost a race in Alabama amongst others. And was fired by Trump.
    So. yeah, more please.
    No one on this site should be surprised that SeanT of all people likes Bannon (and probably Trump as well).
    As I recall he, like most people, reluctantly backed Hillary. Check again tomorrow.
    I think T

    Trump is a harbinger of that, Bannon understands this evolution, much more deeply

    He should be feted with rose petals. Good for him.

    I am white. I am proudly British, English, proudly WHITE, a proud inheritor of the Enlightenment and universal suffrage and the Industrial Revolution and liberal democracy and the internet and feminism and the rest, and everything else we white people did, which is basically everything of value for the last 600 years. WE DID THIS.

    White people!!

    Sunil, Max PB, this is where it’s going. White people own goodness. That means you don’t. Good, eh?

    We white people certainly don't own "goodness". The Holocaust by itself disproves any such nonsense. We created one of the greatest of evils. But genocides are not restricted to western white people. see Turkey, Rwanda, and many others, etc. See modern Israel itself.

    But what we do own is liberal, tolerant, pluralistic, gender-fair democracy. We did that. It has not developed anywhere else, where we haven't deliberately planted it. Unless you can point me to a counter-example? Did the Afghans do it by themselves in the 10th century?

    The Africans? People on Mars? Where?
    There is nothing 'liberal, tolerant, pluralistic or gender-fair' about Bannon; his template is that of Hitler, Mussolini and Stalin.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,914
    SeanT said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    SeanT said:

    kle4 said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    dixiedean said:

    SeanT said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    dixiedean said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    Why do groups of ever-so-patriotic Nationalists tolerate an American coming over here telling them what to do?
    Well, exactly....
    Bannon is clever. He helped Trump win. More, please.
    So clever he advanced the cause of candidates so patently unsuitable that the Republicans lost a race in Alabama amongst others. And was fired by Trump.
    So. yeah, more please.
    No one on this site should be surprised that SeanT of all people likes Bannon (and probably Trump as well).
    As I recall he, like most people, reluctantly backed Hillary. Check again tomorrow.
    I think T

    Trump is a harbinger of that, Bannon understands this evolution, much more deeply

    He should be feted with rose petals. Good for him.

    I am white. I am proudly British, English, proudly WHITE, a proud inheritor of the Enlightenment and universal suffrage and the Industrial Revolution and liberal democracy and the internet and feminism and the rest, and everything else we white people did, which is basically everything of value for the last 600 years. WE DID THIS.

    White people!!

    Sunil, Max PB, this is where it’s going. White people own goodness. That means you don’t. Good, eh?

    We white people certainly don't own "goodness". The Holocaust by itself disproves any such nonsense. We created one of the greatest of evils. But genocides are not restricted to western white people. see Turkey, Rwanda, and many others, etc. See modern Israel itself.

    But what we do own is liberal, tolerant, pluralistic, gender-fair democracy. We did that. It has not developed anywhere else, where we haven't deliberately planted it. Unless you can point me to a counter-example? Did the Afghans do it by themselves in the 10th century?

    The Africans? People on Mars? Where?

    I don’t think it had much to do with skin colour. Others do. I understand that.

  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    The_Apocalypse said:

    MaxPB said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    rottenborough said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Freggles said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    I wouldn't put them at that level
    Can we please not have our Conservative party turn into the Republicans? Populist left vs. populist right is not a great choice for those of us who actually care about facts and reasonable conduct.
    Spot on - well said
    There have been reports/rumours of an uptick in new tory members joining. Kippers and others, trying to game the forthcoming leadership?

    It would not take much to sufficiently swamp the Tories who have a membership of maybe 70K.
    Tim Bale's recent research showed that the Tory membership is pretty right wing in any case - I doubt that there's that much difference between them and Kippers.
    Dangerously close to libel there...
    MarqueeMark said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    rottenborough said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Freggles said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    I wouldn't put them at that level
    Can we please not have our Conservative party turn into the Republicans? Populist left vs. populist right is not a great choice for those of us who actually care about facts and reasonable conduct.
    Spot on - well said
    There have been reports/rumours of an uptick in new tory members joining. Kippers and others, trying to game the forthcoming leadership?

    It would not take much to sufficiently swamp the Tories who have a membership of maybe 70K.
    Tim Bale's recent research showed that the Tory membership is pretty right wing in any case - I doubt that there's that much difference between them and Kippers.
    You would be wrong.

    Very, very wrong.
    I’ll take you guys word for it, considering you’re both pretty right wing and even you both are balking at the comparison.
    Over the years on here, I have not exactly been a friend of Labour or the LibDems.

    But my real venom has been reserved for UKIP. And Farage especially.
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,817
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    rottenborough said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Freggles said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    I wouldn't put them at that level
    Can we please not have our Conservative party turn into the Republicans? Populist left vs. populist right is not a great choice for those of us who actually care about facts and reasonable conduct.
    Spot on - well said
    There have been reports/rumours of an uptick in new tory members joining. Kippers and others, trying to game the forthcoming leadership?

    It would not take much to sufficiently swamp the Tories who have a membership of maybe 70K.
    Tim Bale's recent research showed that the Tory membership is pretty right wing in any case - I doubt that there's that much difference between them and Kippers.
    I am a member and there is a chasm of immense proportions between myself and UKIP
    Agreed. There are many decent PB Tories who find Kipper views abhorrent.

    I think Bale is wrong in general
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1022237831866007552
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    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,929
    SeanT said:

    dixiedean said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    dixiedean said:

    SeanT said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    dixiedean said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    Why do groups of ever-so-patriotic Nationalists tolerate an American coming over here telling them what to do?
    Well, exactly....
    Bannon is clever. He helped Trump win. More, please.
    So clever he advanced the cause of candidates so patently unsuitable that the Republicans lost a race in Alabama amongst others. And was fired by Trump.
    So. yeah, more please.
    No one on this site should be surprised that SeanT of all people likes Bannon (and probably Trump as well).
    I'm not tbh. Am surprised by his "Bannon is clever" though. He may well be, but he is not politically astute. ("Tommy Robinson is the backbone of the country" anyone?)
    Thought SeanT would recognise a professional bullshitter and provocateur when he saw one.
    Read his Wiki. It is incredible, Possibly one of the most impressive I have ever seen.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Bannon

    From a working class Irish American background he becomes: a significant US Navy officer. a massively successful banker, a major Hollywood producer, important earth scientist, a crucial media mogul. Then moves on to politics, and helps Trump win the presidency. All this in one life???

    Who on here can boast anything like that? No, we can't. He may fire the odd missile which goes astray, but there's no doubting his unique credentials. He is deeply interesting.
    Plenty of folk are "deeply interesting". Doesn't mean I'd trust them to run a kindergarten, country or a bath.
    Jack-of-all-trades arose for a reason during Tudor times.
    Ironically, the addition of "master of none" only entered the lexicon 200 years later. It was yet another White Enlightenment triumph.
  • Options
    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    edited July 2018
    kle4 said:

    The_Apocalypse said:



    Why do you think her voting base won’t turn out?

    For me: Dissatisfaction with Brexit, from one side or another, lack of governing competence, and general weariness after 8-12 years and fear of Corbyn receding to a small degree, by enough.
    On Brexit: that’s a good point, she’ll never be able to satisfy everyone - then again that was the case in 2017, and the Tories still polled above 40%. That said signs dissatisfaction have already been seen among Tory voters, and we’ve got some way to go yet.
    John_M said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    John_M said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    MaxPB said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    rottenborough said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Freggles said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    I wouldn't put them at that level
    Spot on - well said
    Dangerously close to libel there...
    MarqueeMark said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    rottenborough said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Freggles said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    rottenborough said:

    Oh God


    https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/1022207214289866753

    I wouldn't put them at that level
    Spot on - well said
    .
    You would be wrong.

    Very, very wrong.
    I think plenty of Tory members have some sympathy with UKIP positions. I don't see that as particularly reprehensible. It's the reason May should worry. I doubt UKIP will be able to field any kind of presence at the next GE, but a good chunk of her voting base is just going to sit on its hands, Corbyn or no.
    Why do you think her voting base won’t turn out?
    Chequers is a 'betrayal'. I think they're barmy, personally, but then I'm barely a Conservative by their lights. If you read the kipperish boards (e.g. Guido), you'll see that the natives are restless.
    I stopped reading Guido’s comment section a long time ago, but that doesn’t surprise me.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,914
    I am going to pass out now. Far too much grappa and major train trouble. Before I do, though, I will recommend this:

    https://www.bloomsbury.com/uk/the-silk-roads-9781408839973/

    A very interesting read that provides a very different perspective.
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    FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    SeanT said:



    The Tory government, via the Attorney General, has just appointed as Director of the Crown Prosecution Service a man so effete, gay, cuckolded and leftified, he believes ISIS returnees should NOT be charged, but treated as little scamps gone wrong.

    I do not joke. Who the hell thought THIS lawyer, of all lawyers, should lead the CPS???? YOUR PARTY.


    https://order-order.com/2018/07/24/new-director-public-prosecutions-said-returning-isis-jihadis-shouldnt-arrested/

    This fucking Tory party is not fit for service. You are done. Begone. Drink bleach, politically speaking.

    Once Brexit is done, everyone will take a good long look at who replaces TMay, and we will all think again. Who knows if your party will survive.

    I mean 'our' as in we British, I'm not a Tory but they are a damn sight better than Bannon and his demonic acolytes.

    As for whether ISIS jihadis should be arrested - of course they should, though perhaps shave some years off their sentence if they are willing to make some anti-ISIS propaganda films for us and the like.
  • Options
    nunuonenunuone Posts: 1,138
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    https://twitter.com/MarkFoxNews/status/1022231803053178885

    Not weighted by education.

    In any case it matters as much who Trump's opponent is.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,914
    One more thing. This is beautiful. Pray for me. Good night.
    https://twitter.com/alderhey/status/1021412274240671746?s=21
  • Options
    nunuonenunuone Posts: 1,138
    Pakistani elections results.....Imran Khan's party ahead so far.
  • Options
    FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    Trump's tariffs are providing a great opportunity to debunk economic nationalism.
    Centrists (or liberals or moderates or whatever) need to stop talking about how racist Donald Trump is and more about how rubbish he is.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,609
    The_Apocalypse said:


    On Brexit: that’s a good point, she’ll never be able to satisfy everyone - then again that was the case in 2017, and the Tories still polled above 40%. That said signs dissatisfaction have already been seen among Tory voters, and we’ve got some way to go yet.

    In 2017 there was undoubtedly some disquiet. But that was before the theory became practice, and before a larger tranche was annoyed.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,929
    nunuone said:

    Pakistani elections results.....Imran Khan's party ahead so far.

    Can I be the first to ask if he has obtained a significant amount of swing?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,609
    The_Apocalypse said:


    I stopped reading Guido’s comment section a long time ago, but that doesn’t surprise me.

    Even Guido doesn't like his own comments section.

    We have tried out the latest expensive AI software and it is not good enough or not trained enough yet on British idiom to deal with obsesssive racists who bore on about Sadiq Khan, David Lammy and Diane Abbott endlessly. Twats who think they are being witty when they are just crass, saddos who game the moderation to insult “musl1ms”. We frankly don’t want them, like them or need them. Breitbart are welcome to them.

    https://order-order.com/youvebeenbanned/
  • Options
    surbysurby Posts: 1,227
    dixiedean said:

    nunuone said:

    Pakistani elections results.....Imran Khan's party ahead so far.

    Can I be the first to ask if he has obtained a significant amount of swing?
    A lot of it was reverse helped by the Army.
  • Options
    surbysurby Posts: 1,227
    AndyJS said:

    https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1022237831866007552

    One bowls with his right hand, the other one with his left. But who cares, "they" all look the same !
  • Options
    nunuonenunuone Posts: 1,138
    https://twitter.com/troovus/status/1022171990331936768
  • Options
    The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    kle4 said:

    The_Apocalypse said:


    I stopped reading Guido’s comment section a long time ago, but that doesn’t surprise me.

    Even Guido doesn't like his own comments section.

    We have tried out the latest expensive AI software and it is not good enough or not trained enough yet on British idiom to deal with obsesssive racists who bore on about Sadiq Khan, David Lammy and Diane Abbott endlessly. Twats who think they are being witty when they are just crass, saddos who game the moderation to insult “musl1ms”. We frankly don’t want them, like them or need them. Breitbart are welcome to them.

    https://order-order.com/youvebeenbanned/
    Yes, I remember reading that particular quote on here a while ago. There does seem to be a bit of a gap between how some of his readers see the world and how he does. I remember reading his comments on multiculturalism on twitter, I was a bit shocked at the time but that definitely told me he wasn’t aligned with the way many of those in his comments section see things:
    https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1001191315462385664?s=20
  • Options
    BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113
    edited July 2018
    SeanT said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    One more thing. This is beautiful. Pray for me. Good night.
    https://twitter.com/alderhey/status/1021412274240671746?s=21

    OK, alright, it made me nearly blub.

    I shall say goodnight before I get too sentimental.

    Sweet dreams, PB.
    Would you blub if he were black?
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,817
    dixiedean said:

    nunuone said:

    Pakistani elections results.....Imran Khan's party ahead so far.

    Can I be the first to ask if he has obtained a significant amount of swing?
    Bowled over by the result
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,817
    I see Ian Austin has called Lavery a wanker and a fucking bastard.

    The Right Wing Labour Mps have completely lost it.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,570
    Compulsory Soy quotas coming to you soon:

    https://twitter.com/quatremer/status/1022256652093939712?s=21
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,817
    Water discovered on Mars.

    Can any Martians find evidence of water in the UK?
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    bigjohnowls said:

    I see Ian Austin has called Lavery a wanker and a fucking bastard.

    The Right Wing Labour Mps have completely lost it.

    Do you think deselection should be considered?
  • Options
    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,817
    AndyJS said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    I see Ian Austin has called Lavery a wanker and a fucking bastard.

    The Right Wing Labour Mps have completely lost it.

    Do you think deselection should be considered?
    Any normal member would be expelled if they behaved like Austin and Hodge
  • Options
    SeaShantyIrishSeaShantyIrish Posts: 117
    FPT - re: the MP from Peterbrough . . . shades of Sir Gerald Nabarro! Whom if memory serves had some alleged difficulty negotiating (or not) an errant roundabout, which ended Sir Gerald's Thorney Island career. Have a copy of his autobiography (written before the traffic incident) with his autograph.
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,975
    SeanT said:



    From a working class Irish American background he becomes: a significant US Navy officer. a massively successful banker, a major Hollywood producer, important earth scientist, a crucial media mogul. Then moves on to politics, and helps Trump win the presidency. All this in one life???

    I don't know about the rest of the bollocks but SB made it as far as O3 (Lieutenant) in 6 and a bit years. It's not nothing but it's not really being a "significant" USN officer.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Highest ever temperature in London was 38.1 degrees at Kew Gardens on 10th August 2003. It'll be interesting to see how close it gets to that tomorrow.

    https://www.currentresults.com/Weather-Extremes/UK/highest-temperature-in-uk.php
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,570
    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1022267646119763970?s=20
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    surby said:

    dixiedean said:

    nunuone said:

    Pakistani elections results.....Imran Khan's party ahead so far.

    Can I be the first to ask if he has obtained a significant amount of swing?
    A lot of it was reverse helped by the Army.
    Any democratic party there is on a bit of a sticky wicket.
  • Options
    Chester90Chester90 Posts: 8
    SeanT said:

    I am white. I am proudly British, English, proudly WHITE, a proud inheritor of the Enlightenment and universal suffrage and the Industrial Revolution and liberal democracy and the internet and feminism and the rest, and everything else we white people did, which is basically everything of value for the last 600 years. WE DID THIS.

    I am proudly British, English but profoundly MIXED RACE. Does that mean i'm not a proud inheritor of the Enlightenment and universal suffrage and the Industrial Revolution and liberal democracy and the internet and feminism and the rest?

    you are a keyboard racist and the fact that nobody has called you out on your crap is a shame upon this site.

  • Options
    MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    edited July 2018
    FPTs past
    Tim_B said:

    MyBurningEars said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T

    Canadian TV drama on BBC4 called Cardinal. Don't remember a Canadian show being on British TV before.

    Due South was on BBC1 IIRC. It featured a Mounty and his dog, Diefenbaker.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Due_South
    Canadian PM 57-63. Diefenbaker that is.
    I may be going mad, but I seem to recall that @TimB posted on here an extraordinary story about the time he bought a second-hand car not long after migrating to the New World.

    And the former owner of the car turned out to be a retired but very senior Canadian politician.

    Would appreciate it if someone can confirm whether or not the heat has completely addled me!!
    Yes that is the case. It was a Cadillac previously owned by the leader of the socialist party in Canada. I am amazed that you remember that!

    It had an 8.2 liter engine and went like a scalded dog.
    Cheers! Some cracking anecdotage.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,570
    https://twitter.com/VanityFair/status/1022277062386765827
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    https://twitter.com/JimNorton/status/1021569320546181120
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    surbysurby Posts: 1,227
    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/first-read/polls-trump-approval-sags-trio-midwest-states-n894556
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,210
    AndyJS said:

    https://twitter.com/JimNorton/status/1021569320546181120

    I see he resigned
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,570
    I'm shocked I tell you! Shocked!

    http://thefayetteadvocate.com/2018/07/25/whistleblower-provides-emails-that-show-stormy-daniels-arrest-was-pre-planned/
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    BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113
    Chester90 said:

    SeanT said:

    I am white. I am proudly British, English, proudly WHITE, a proud inheritor of the Enlightenment and universal suffrage and the Industrial Revolution and liberal democracy and the internet and feminism and the rest, and everything else we white people did, which is basically everything of value for the last 600 years. WE DID THIS.

    I am proudly British, English but profoundly MIXED RACE. Does that mean i'm not a proud inheritor of the Enlightenment and universal suffrage and the Industrial Revolution and liberal democracy and the internet and feminism and the rest?

    you are a keyboard racist and the fact that nobody has called you out on your crap is a shame upon this site.

    No need for the ‘but’ in that first line fella.

    Yes, the guy is a stinking piece of ordure who stains this site with his white supremacist Bannonesque ramblings. He thinks he’s oh so amusing and edgy but in truth is a sad apology of a man, bolstering his ego by trying to impress randomers with his faux controversies.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    The Telegraph takes inspiration from pb for this piece on Lord Haw Haw's hanging for treason.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/07/25/lord-haw-haw-story-last-traitor-britain-hanged-treason/

    But on the subject of the Telegraph, I note this helpful comparison in a story about finding gold in Scottish rivers: The Douglas Nugget is believed to share a similar diameter to that of a 1.6ins golf ball. So how big would that be then?
  • Options
    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,905
    Chester90 said:

    SeanT said:

    I am white. I am proudly British, English, proudly WHITE, a proud inheritor of the Enlightenment and universal suffrage and the Industrial Revolution and liberal democracy and the internet and feminism and the rest, and everything else we white people did, which is basically everything of value for the last 600 years. WE DID THIS.

    I am proudly British, English but profoundly MIXED RACE. Does that mean i'm not a proud inheritor of the Enlightenment and universal suffrage and the Industrial Revolution and liberal democracy and the internet and feminism and the rest?

    you are a keyboard racist and the fact that nobody has called you out on your crap is a shame upon this site.

    Well said.
This discussion has been closed.