politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » If you can’t join them, beat them: Denmark, football, Maastric

Philip_Thompson said:

Benpointer said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Benpointer said:

You really think most Britons have not travelled outside Europe? I don't have the figures but I'd be surprised if most haven't been further at least once.

Europe and north African islands that could effectively be part of Europe - yes I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case.

Google to the rescue again:


"Aside from Europe, North America is the most popular holiday spot for Britons, with 44% of British adults saying they have been. Africa (30%) is the second most popular destination, and 27% of Britons have also been to Asia. 14% have been to Australia and 12% have been to South America."

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/11/21/british-people-far-more-well-travelled-americans/

So, unless the Britons going to Africa, Aisa, Australia and S. America are sub-sets of the 44% who have been to N America, it seems that well over 50% of Britons have travelled beyond Europe (unsurprisingly).

(It'd be interesting to see that as a Leave/Remain split )

I would imagine that there would be a large correlation between the groups and that well-travelled people will indeed largely be a sub-set of the 44%.

Personally I've been to all of the above apart from South America.

As for the Leave/Remain split I'm not sure if it would be that dramatic. Older people have had more opportunities to travel and to learn the foibles of the EU and see the bigger world outside it. Younger naive Remainers may not have had as many opportunities to leave Europe yet.

Sunil_Prasannan said:

rottenborough said:

With a few minor alterations this will do nicely for Boris Johnson's resignation letter:

https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1010267211708141573

https://twitter.com/mikeedudley/status/737700442050809856

FrancisUrquhart said:

Barnesian said:

MarqueeMark said:

PClipp said:

MarqueeMark said:

Imagine if all those people marching in London today calling for a second referendum had only got off their arses and marched up to voters' front doors at the time of the first referendum and sold their pro-EU message......

yeah, you're right. It would have been nearer to 55:45 remain.

Perhaps they were not inspired by the Conservative leadership of the Remain campaign. I certainly wasn`t.

Enjoy your day in the sun in London....

Just leaving home with six neighbours for the #peoplesvotemarch. I suspect it will be big.

Depends what you define as big,

Tens of thousands of people are expected to descend on Westminster for an anti-Brexit demonstration on Saturday

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/22/peoples-vote-march-against-brexit-london-thousands-expected

Is that big?

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Sandpit said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

rottenborough said:

With a few minor alterations this will do nicely for Boris Johnson's resignation letter:

https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1010267211708141573

Avoiding the runway vote on monday is an act of shear folly for his career. If he cannot vote against and accept the consequences he cannot be PM of the UK

Mind you I fully support runway 3 and also no 4

Yes, well done to the government for whipping the vote, even if it was at the cost of a minor resignation and Boris needing to find a way to be somewhere else.

My only annoyance is that they’re not legislating for runway 4 at the same time, they should really be planning to start building that on the day R3 opens.

May well see the SNP vote with the government for once

TheJezziah said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheJezziah said:

I think one of the mistakes the pro remain media did was not to give more air time to the Corbyn campaign to remain in. I believe that would have done far more to convince Labour voters than the Alan Johnson official Labour remain campaign. I think there was more interest in continuing the Labour civil war which intensified just after the vote than winning the vote itself.

In the end the media were far more interested in the Tory fight anyway. For all the blame to go around I think the pro remain media has to look at itself as well as pointing the finger at others.

You obviously didn't watch the Vice special on Jezza....he declined / made himself unavailable numerous times.

I'm not talking about interviews with him, much in the same way as the election he's at his best campaigning to people rather than doing interviews. If journalists were shooting and covering that and Corbyn's remain message but getting stopped by Corbyn then fair enough, I suspect they had their own agenda/thoughts that guided how they covered things and it didn't produce the result they wanted.

The problem, IMO, is with the group of people that voted in the referendum, the way things in the country were/are and how people felt about that combined with the Leave arguments and its media backing means that Leave wins unless the remain campaign is really good. With the benefit of hindsight...

One way I can see of changing that is really driving up turnout among remain voters. Corbyn has an appeal to a section of people whereas I can't imagine Alan Johnson would have converted or brought out many voters for remain that weren't already secured for remain.

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheJezziah said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheJezziah said:

I think one of the mistakes the pro remain media did was not to give more air time to the Corbyn campaign to remain in. I believe that would have done far more to convince Labour voters than the Alan Johnson official Labour remain campaign. I think there was more interest in continuing the Labour civil war which intensified just after the vote than winning the vote itself.

In the end the media were far more interested in the Tory fight anyway. For all the blame to go around I think the pro remain media has to look at itself as well as pointing the finger at others.

You obviously didn't watch the Vice special on Jezza....he declined / made himself unavailable numerous times.

I'm not talking about interviews with him, much in the same way as the election he's at his best campaigning to people rather than doing interviews. If journalists were shooting and covering that and Corbyn's remain message but getting stopped by Corbyn then fair enough, I suspect they had their own agenda/thoughts that guided how they covered things and it didn't produce the result they wanted.

The problem, IMO, is with the group of people that voted in the referendum, the way things in the country were/are and how people felt about that combined with the Leave arguments and its media backing means that Leave wins unless the remain campaign is really good. With the benefit of hindsight...

One way I can see of changing that is really driving up turnout among remain voters. Corbyn has an appeal to a section of people whereas I can't imagine Alan Johnson would have converted or brought out many voters for remain that weren't already secured for remain.

You obviously didn't see it. They followed him around for months and it was shown he turned down opportunities to speak at rallies / events, and basically made it nearly impossible to get him to do anything.

Elliot said:

FF43 said:

Sandpit said:

SouthamObserver said:

Sandpit said:

FF43 said:

SouthamObserver said:

swing_voter said:

welshowl said:

DavidL said:

. .

Delors was spectacularly successful, but at a price, he turned enough of the U.K. electorate (mostly on the right) from mildly positive to so negative they were set on the exit path.

A great read......I would arguethat the populist UK right, aided by the Daily Mail, Express and a misguided sense of nostalgia of a B&W 1950s Britain were what turned folk against the EU -we suffer from a very powerful nostalgia and to this day I see it as one of the national malaise

Nostalgia is the dominant force on the left and the right. The UK gives every sign of being a country that believes its best days are in the past.

Astute point. "Global Britain" is a image of bygone age that people prefer to a disconcerting present and future.

Believe me that that’s not how the rest of the world see a G7 country, member of the Security Council, soon to be the 4th biggest voice on the World Trade Organisation and one of the easiest countries in the world to do business or set up a business.

The rest of the world sees a country inflicting harm on itself for no discernable gain.

Disagree. 90% of world growth in the coming years will be outside the EU. As that organisation becomes increasingly protectionist, insular and overbearing with regulation, the biggest opportunities lie elsewhere. Like every change it will take some adjustment, but those companies willing to seize the opportunities will do very well in the future. A decade from now, I believe that most people will only be complaining that we didn’t leave the EU earlier.

Not obvious from this chart why leaving "protectionist, insular" EU, which does a lot more international trade than we do, helps the UK

Really?It is pretty demomstrable from that chart that non-EU countries have far more economic growth than EU ones, and they are the ones we should piggy back off.

Also, your fact is wrong. The UK exports a higher percentage of GDP to non-EU markets than the EU does.

Barnesian said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Barnesian said:

MarqueeMark said:

PClipp said:

MarqueeMark said:

Imagine if all those people marching in London today calling for a second referendum had only got off their arses and marched up to voters' front doors at the time of the first referendum and sold their pro-EU message......

yeah, you're right. It would have been nearer to 55:45 remain.

Perhaps they were not inspired by the Conservative leadership of the Remain campaign. I certainly wasn`t.

Enjoy your day in the sun in London....

Just leaving home with six neighbours for the #peoplesvotemarch. I suspect it will be big.

Depends what you define as big,

Tens of thousands of people are expected to descend on Westminster for an anti-Brexit demonstration on Saturday

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/22/peoples-vote-march-against-brexit-london-thousands-expected

Is that big?

Not big enough. It needs to be 100,000+.

I'm not into expectation management.

Benpointer said:

HYUFD said:

Benpointer said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Benpointer said:

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

SouthamObserver said:

HYUFD said:

SouthamObserver said:

HYUFD said:

Foxy said:

Sandpit said:

Nigelb said:

Sandpit said:

Nigelb said:

.

Edit: another thought that crossed my mind yesterday, what if ide.

Considerinciopath.

Given the U

Most Trump voters have absolutely no idea what Brexit is.

They do, Br

This is palpable nonsense. But I know you will dig in and refuse to

You really think mostst haven't been further at least once.

Europe and norths the case.

Google to the rescue again:


"Aside from Europe, North America is thend 12% have been to South America."

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/11/21/british-people-far-more-well-travelled-americans/

So, unless the Britons going to Africa, Aisa, Australia and S. America are sub-sets of the 44% who have been to N America, it seems that well over 50% of Britons have travelled beyond Europe (unsurprisingly).

(It'd be interesting to see that as a Leave/Remain split )

So 56% of Britons have never been to North America even if that is lower than the 72% of Americans who have never been to Europe.

70% of Britons have never been to Africa, 73% of Britons have never been to Asia and 86% of Britons have never been to Australia though over 90% have been to continental Europe.

And yes most of those going to Asia, Australia and Africa will be subsets of those going to N America on travel and flight costs principally so I was right.

No. You were wrong.

"Twenty-two percent of Britons have never travelled on a plane and one in four have never visited a capital city in Europe,while nearly a third (29 per cent) have never travelled outside of Europe, and a fifth have never been to a beach, according to new research.

So 71% of Britons have travelled outside Europe.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/a-quarter-of-britons-have-never-been-on-a-plane-visited-a-beach-or-european-capital/

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheJezziah said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheJezziah said:

I think one of the mistakes the pro remain media did was not to give more air time to the Corbyn campaign to remain in. I believe that would have done far more to convince Labour voters than the Alan Johnson official Labour remain campaign. I think there was more interest in continuing the Labour civil war which intensified just after the vote than winning the vote itself.

In the end the media were far more interested in the Tory fight anyway. For all the blame to go around I think the pro remain media has to look at itself as well as pointing the finger at others.

You obviously didn't watch the Vice special on Jezza....he declined / made himself unavailable numerous times.

I'm not talking about interviews with him, much in the same way as the election he's at his best campaigning to people rather than doing interviews. If journalists were shooting and covering that and Corbyn's remain message but getting stopped by Corbyn then fair enough, I suspect they had their own agenda/thoughts that guided how they covered things and it didn't produce the result they wanted.

The problem, IMO, is with the group of people that voted in the referendum, the way things in the country were/are and how people felt about that combined with the Leave arguments and its media backing means that Leave wins unless the remain campaign is really good. With the benefit of hindsight...

One way I can see of changing that is really driving up turnout among remain voters. Corbyn has an appeal to a section of people whereas I can't imagine Alan Johnson would have converted or brought out many voters for remain that weren't already secured for remain.

You obviously didn't see it. They followed him around for months (until he spat his dummy because the self confessed Corbyn supporting journo asked one tough question) and it was shown he turned down opportunities to speak at rallies / events, and basically made it nearly impossible to get him to do anything.

HYUFD said:

Benpointer said:

HYUFD said:

Benpointer said:

HYUFD said:

Benpointer said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Benpointer said:

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

SouthamObserver said:

HYUFD said:

SouthamObserver said:

HYUFD said:

Foxy said:

Sandpit said:

Nigelb said:

Sandpit said:

Nigelb said:

.

Edit: another thought that crossed my mind yesterday, what if ide.

Considerinciopath.

Given the U

Most Trump voters have absolutely no idea what Brexit is.

They do, Br

This is palpable nonsense. But I know you will dig in and refuse to

You really think mostst haven't been further at least once.

Europe and norths the case.

Google to the rescue again:


"Aside from Europe, North America is the most popular holiday spot for Britons, with 44% of British adults saying they have been. Africa (30%) is the second most popular destination, and 27% of Britons have also been to Asia. 14% have been to Australia and 12% have been to South America."

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/11/21/british-people-far-more-well-travelled-americans/

So, unless the Britons going to Africa, Aisa, Australia and S. America are sub-sets of the 44% who have been to N America, it seems that well over 50% of Britons have travelled beyond Europe (unsurprisingly).

(It'd be interesting to see that as a Leave/Remain split )

So 56% of Britons have light costs principally so I was right.

No. You were wrong.

opean-capital/

I would be extremely dubious of td Turkey etc.

Indeed

Yep, if you don't like the evidence, just ignore it.

The evidence is clear that the only continent the majority of Britons have travelled to is Europe, Turkey is technically in Asia though with just a slice in Europe and Tenerife is off Africa though technically part of Spain (which may confuse those sampled) which would distort the figures for those saying they 'have travelled outside Europe'

SouthamObserver said:

Benpointer said:

HYUFD said:

Benpointer said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Benpointer said:

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

SouthamObserver said:

HYUFD said:

SouthamObserver said:

HYUFD said:

Foxy said:

Sandpit said:

Nigelb said:

Sandpit said:

Nigelb said:

.

Edit: another thought that crossed my mind yesterday, what if ide.

Considerinciopath.

Given the U

Most Trump voters have absolutely no idea what Brexit is.

They do, Br

This is palpable nonsense. But I know you will dig in and refuse to

You really think mostst haven't been further at least once.

Europe and norths the case.

Google to the rescue again:


"Aside from Europe, North America is thend 12% have been to South America."

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/11/21/british-people-far-more-well-travelled-americans/

So, unless the Britons going to Africa, Aisa, Australia and S. America are sub-sets of the 44% who have been to N America, it seems that well over 50% of Britons have travelled beyond Europe (unsurprisingly).

(It'd be interesting to see that as a Leave/Remain split )

So 56% of Britons have never been to North America even if that is lower than the 72% of Americans who right.

No. You were wrong.

"Twenty-two percent of Britons have never travelled on a plane and one in four have never visited a capital city in Europe,while nearly a third (29 per cent) have never travelled outside of Europe, and a fifth have never been to a beach, according to new research.

So 71% of Britons have travelled outside Europe.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/a-quarter-of-britons-have-never-been-on-a-plane-visited-a-beach-or-european-capital/

20% of Brits have never been to a beach? That’s over 10 million people. I find that impossible to believe.

And 30% have been to Africa - seriosly???? That’s over 15 million. Really????

SouthamObserver said:

Benpointer said:

HYUFD said:

Benpointer said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Benpointer said:

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

SouthamObserver said:

HYUFD said:

SouthamObserver said:

HYUFD said:

Foxy said:

Sandpit said:

Nigelb said:

Sandpit said:

Nigelb said:

.

Edit: another thought that crossed my mind yesterday, what if ide.

Considerinciopath.

Given the U

Most Trump voters have absolutely no idea what Brexit is.

They do, Br

This is palpable nonsense. But I know you will dig in and refuse to

You really think mostst haven't been further at least once.

Europe and norths the case.

Google to the rescue again:


"Aside from Europe, North America is thend 12% have been to South America."

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/11/21/british-people-far-more-well-travelled-americans/

So, unless the Britons going to Africa, Aisa, Australia and S. America are sub-sets of the 44% who have been to N America, it seems that well over 50% of Britons have travelled beyond Europe (unsurprisingly).

(It'd be interesting to see that as a Leave/Remain split )

So 56% of Britons have never been to North America even if that is lower than the 72% of Americans who have never been to Europe.

70% of Britons have never been to Africa, 73% of Britons have never been to Asia and 86% of Britons have never been to Australia though over 90% have been to continental Europe.

No. You were wrong.


So 71% of Britons have travelled outside Europe.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/news/a-quarter-of-britons-have-never-been-on-a-plane-visited-a-beach-or-european-capital/

20% of Brits have never been to a beach? That’s over 10 million people. I find that impossible to believe.

And 30% have been to Africa - seriosly???? That’s over 15 million. Really????

OldKingCole said:

There are lots of flights to North African holiday destinations and relatively cheap offers to South Africa. I do find the figure about the beach surprising, though, although I don’t think beach/sun holidays are as popular with the non-Europeans who have settled here as with European-type residents.

HYUFD said:

Barnesian said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Barnesian said:

MarqueeMark said:

PClipp said:

MarqueeMark said:

Imagine if all those people marching in London today calling for a second referendum had only got off their arses and marched up to voters' front doors at the time of the first referendum and sold their pro-EU message......

yeah, you're right. It would have been nearer to 55:45 remain.

Perhaps they were not inspired by the Conservative leadership of the Remain campaign. I certainly wasn`t.

Enjoy your day in the sun in London....

Just leaving home with six neighbours for the #peoplesvotemarch. I suspect it will be big.

Depends what you define as big,

Tens of thousands of people are expected to descend on Westminster for an anti-Brexit demonstration on Saturday

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/22/peoples-vote-march-against-brexit-london-thousands-expected

Is that big?

Not big enough. It needs to be 100,000+.

I'm not into expectation management.

Will it match the 'Brexit and Betrayal' Leave rally though, also in London today?

https://twitter.com/gerardbattenmep/status/1008973459345608704

Anyone going to both?

FF43 said:

HYUFD said:

Barnesian said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Barnesian said:

MarqueeMark said:

PClipp said:

MarqueeMark said:

Imagine if all those people marching in London today calling for a second referendum had only got off their arses and marched up to voters' front doors at the time of the first referendum and sold their pro-EU message......

yeah, you're right. It would have been nearer to 55:45 remain.

Perhaps they were not inspired by the Conservative leadership of the Remain campaign. I certainly wasn`t.

Enjoy your day in the sun in London....

Just leaving home with six neighbours for the #peoplesvotemarch. I suspect it will be big.

Depends what you define as big,

Tens of thousands of people are expected to descend on Westminster for an anti-Brexit demonstration on Saturday

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/22/peoples-vote-march-against-brexit-london-thousands-expected

Is that big?

Not big enough. It needs to be 100,000+.

I'm not into expectation management.

Will it match the 'Brexit and Betrayal' Leave rally though, also in London today?

https://twitter.com/gerardbattenmep/status/1008973459345608704

Anyone going to both?

"Brexit and Betrayal"? Shouldn't hebe celebrating success on the second anniversary of independence day?

Casino_Royale said:

Recidivist said:

Casino_Royale said:

At Aldershot station this morning: one lonely middle aged guy wearing an EU t-shirt with his resigned wife; twenty people all dressed up in suits and fascinators going to Royal Ascot.

Which event should I go to to avoid elitists?

Ascot.

Judging by the sound and style of the majority of the people on my train, it’s popular with the masses too.

Stark_Dawning said:

Casino_Royale said:

Recidivist said:

Casino_Royale said:

At Aldershot station this morning: one lonely middle aged guy wearing an EU t-shirt with his resigned wife; twenty people all dressed up in suits and fascinators going to Royal Ascot.

Which event should I go to to avoid elitists?

Ascot.

Judging by the sound and style of the majority of the people on my train, it’s popular with the masses too.

Horrible people. I live in Windsor. Imagine the most obnoxious drunken tw*ts from across the social spectrum descending upon one town and you'll get an idea.

Casino_Royale said:

Stark_Dawning said:

Casino_Royale said:

Recidivist said:

Casino_Royale said:

At Aldershot station this morning: one lonely middle aged guy wearing an EU t-shirt with his resigned wife; twenty people all dressed up in suits and fascinators going to Royal Ascot.

Which event should I go to to avoid elitists?

Ascot.

Judging by the sound and style of the majority of the people on my train, it’s popular with the masses too.

Horrible people. I live in Windsor and Ascot week is dreaded. Imagine the most obnoxious drunken tw*ts from across the social spectrum descending upon one town and you'll get an idea. On Thursday I was abused by one 'racegoer' as I was walking home. A few years ago one attempted to rob me. Awful occasion. Awful drunken, nasty yobs.

Yes, unfortunately it does attract a few chavs. There is also quite a police presence here too.

Thankfully, not in my enclosure.

Ishmael_Z said:

HYUFD said:

Benpointer said:

HYUFD said:

Benpointer said:

HYUFD said:

Benpointer said:

Philip_Thompson said:

Benpointer said:

HYUFD said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

SouthamObserver said:

HYUFD said:

SouthamObserver said:

HYUFD said:

Foxy said:

Sandpit said:

Nigelb said:

Sandpit said:

Nigelb said:

.

Edit: another thought that crossed my mind yesterday, what if ide.

Considerinciopath.

Given the U

Most Trump voters have absolutely no idea what Brexit is.

They do, Br

This is palpable nonsense. But I know you will dig in and refuse to

You really think mostst haven't been further at least once.

Europe and norths the case.

Google to the rescue again:


"Aside from Europe, North America is the most popular holiday spot for Britons, with 44% of British adults saying they have been. Africa (30%) is the second most popular destination, and 27% of Britons have also been to Asia. 14% have been to Australia and 12% have been to South America."

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2014/11/21/british-people-far-more-well-travelled-americans/

So, unless the Britons going to Africa, Aisa, Australia and S. America are sub-sets of the 44% who have been to N America, it seems that well over 50% of Britons have travelled beyond Europe (unsurprisingly).

(It'd be interesting to see that as a Leave/Remain split )

So 56% of Britons have light costs principally so I was right.

No. You were wrong.

opean-capital/

I would be extremely dubious of td Turkey etc.

Indeed

Yep, if you don't like the evidence, just ignore it.

The evidence is clear that the only continent the majority of Britons have travelled to is Europe, Turkey is technically in Asia though with just a slice in Europe and Tenerife is off Africa though technically part of Spain (which may confuse those sampled) which would distort the figures for those saying they 'have travelled outside Europe'

Turkey is not technically in Asia, it is in Asia. But I applaud the logic of excluding the bits of Asia which Britons have been to, from counting as evidence that Britons have been to Asia.

TheJezziah said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheJezziah said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheJezziah said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheJezziah said:

You obviously didn't watch the Vice special on Jezza....he declined / made himself unavailable numerous times.

I'm not talking about interviews with him, much in the same way as the election he's at his best campaigning to people rather than doing interviews. If journalists were shooting and covering that and Corbyn's remain message but getting stopped by Corbyn then fair enough, I suspect they had their own agenda/thoughts that guided how they covered things and it didn't produce the result they wanted.

The problem, IMO, is with the group of people that voted in the referendum, the way things in the country were/are and how people felt about that combined with the Leave arguments and its media backing means that Leave wins unless the remain campaign is really good. With the benefit of hindsight...

One way I can see of changing that is really driving up turnout among remain voters. Corbyn has an appeal to a section of people whereas I can't imagine Alan Johnson would have converted or brought out many voters for remain that weren't already secured for remain.

You obviously didn't see it. They followed him around for months and it was shown he turned down opportunities to speak at rallies / events, and basically made it nearly impossible to get him to do anything.

He didn't want to be part of the official campaigns for good reason but he certainly did speak at rallies and meetings across the country, the fact some pro remain journalists were more interested in attacking/ignoring Corbyn than staying in the EU is something for them to consider as we leave.

Keep trying, you might even convince yourself. They caught his team on camera doing exactly the opposite.

They caught him on camera doing the opposite to speaking at rallies and meetings?

I wasn't claiming he was permanently talking at rallies and meetings, I imagine he slept and other things but video evidence of him not being at a rally or a meeting during the EU referendum doesn't prove he didn't attend one any more than video evidence of him not being at a rally or meeting during the election campaign proves he didn't attend one.

FrancisUrquhart said:

Stark_Dawning said:

Casino_Royale said:

Recidivist said:

Casino_Royale said:

At Aldershot station this morning: one lonely middle aged guy wearing an EU t-shirt with his resigned wife; twenty people all dressed up in suits and fascinators going to Royal Ascot.

Which event should I go to to avoid elitists?

Ascot.

Judging by the sound and style of the majority of the people on my train, it’s popular with the masses too.

Horrible people. I live in Windsor. Imagine the most obnoxious drunken tw*ts from across the social spectrum descending upon one town and you'll get an idea.

Did the Royals and the hangers-on really get that our of hand at the wedding?

FrancisUrquhart said:

Casino_Royale said:

Stark_Dawning said:

Casino_Royale said:

Recidivist said:

Casino_Royale said:

At Aldershot station this morning: one lonely middle aged guy wearing an EU t-shirt with his resigned wife; twenty people all dressed up in suits and fascinators going to Royal Ascot.

Which event should I go to to avoid elitists?

Ascot.

Judging by the sound and style of the majority of the people on my train, it’s popular with the masses too.

Horrible people. I live in Windsor and Ascot week is dreaded. Imagine the most obnoxious drunken tw*ts from across the social spectrum descending upon one town and you'll get an idea. On Thursday I was abused by one 'racegoer' as I was walking home. A few years ago one attempted to rob me. Awful occasion. Awful drunken, nasty yobs.

Yes, unfortunately it does attract a few chavs. There is also quite a police presence here too.

Thankfully, not in my enclosure.

It does seem like the various big race festivals have now become big chav magnets.

Sandpit said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Casino_Royale said:

Stark_Dawning said:

Casino_Royale said:

Recidivist said:

Casino_Royale said:

At Aldershot station this morning: one lonely middle aged guy wearing an EU t-shirt with his resigned wife; twenty people all dressed up in suits and fascinators going to Royal Ascot.

Which event should I go to to avoid elitists?

Ascot.

Judging by the sound and style of the majority of the people on my train, it’s popular with the masses too.

Horrible people. I live in Windsor and Ascot week is dreaded. Imagine the most obnoxious drunken tw*ts from across the social spectrum descending upon one town and you'll get an idea. On Thursday I was abused by one 'racegoer' as I was walking home. A few years ago one attempted to rob me. Awful occasion. Awful drunken, nasty yobs.

Yes, unfortunately it does attract a few chavs. There is also quite a police presence here too.

Thankfully, not in my enclosure.

It does seem like the various big race festivals have now become big chav magnets.

One thing that racecourses are really good at is segregating attendees, with separate entrances and facilities. They never see each other all day until they get to the station in the evening.

AIUI the old “Silver Ring” chav zone at Ascot has now been moved from the 4 furlong pole next to the grandstand, across the track into the middle. They’ll barely see a horse all day.

Stark_Dawning said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Stark_Dawning said:

Casino_Royale said:

Recidivist said:

Casino_Royale said:

At Aldershot station this morning: one lonely middle aged guy wearing an EU t-shirt with his resigned wife; twenty people all dressed up in suits and fascinators going to Royal Ascot.

Which event should I go to to avoid elitists?

Ascot.

Judging by the sound and style of the majority of the people on my train, it’s popular with the masses too.

Horrible people. I live in Windsor. Imagine the most obnoxious drunken tw*ts from across the social spectrum descending upon one town and you'll get an idea.

Did the Royals and the hangers-on really get that our of hand at the wedding?

Ha, ha! No, apparently the wedding party and the hordes of onlookers were well behaved as far as I'm aware, though I wasn't around that weekend. It's just Royal Ascot that attracts this unsavoury mix of wide boys and chinless wonders. I think that just because they're attending an event with 'Royal' in the title it gives them delusions of grandeur and a perceived licence to be an areshole. All rather sad really.

FrancisUrquhart said:

Casino_Royale said:

Stark_Dawning said:

Casino_Royale said:

Recidivist said:

Casino_Royale said:

At Aldershot station this morning: one lonely middle aged guy wearing an EU t-shirt with his resigned wife; twenty people all dressed up in suits and fascinators going to Royal Ascot.

Which event should I go to to avoid elitists?

Ascot.

Judging by the sound and style of the majority of the people on my train, it’s popular with the masses too.

Horrible people. I live in Windsor and Ascot week is dreaded. Imagine the most obnoxious drunken tw*ts from across the social spectrum descending upon one town and you'll get an idea. On Thursday I was abused by one 'racegoer' as I was walking home. A few years ago one attempted to rob me. Awful occasion. Awful drunken, nasty yobs.

Yes, unfortunately it does attract a few chavs. There is also quite a police presence here too.

Thankfully, not in my enclosure.

It does seem like the various big race festivals have now become big chav magnets.

Philip_Thompson said:

FF43 said:

Philip_Thompson said:

FF43 said:

Checked the figures. Non eu trade is 33% of GDP for the UK and 35% for the EU as a whole So not a huge difference. Intra EU trade much higher for eurozone countries thanks to the EU breaking down barriers Brexit Britain wants to reinstate.

Source: DG Trade statistical guide June 2018 p22

No intra-EU trade is much higher for Eurozone nations for them physically bordering each other in a way we don't. For many EU nations trade going the distance of Edinburgh to London would class as INTRA-EU but it doesn't for us.

The point is, less UK EU trade simply reflects our lower trade overall. It isn't because the EU is protectionist and holding us back. The opposite in fact.

So we have a free trade agreement with the USA? Or China? Or Japan? In fact name one non-European nation with an economy larger than ours that we have a free trade agreement with.

Or are you claiming free trade agreements don't matter, in which case why does our EU membership matter?

Seems like you're trying to have your cake and eat it.

williamglenn said:

Philip_Thompson said:

FF43 said:

Philip_Thompson said:

FF43 said:

Checked the figures. Non eu trade is 33% of GDP for the UK and 35% for the EU as a whole So not a huge difference. Intra EU trade much higher for eurozone countries thanks to the EU breaking down barriers Brexit Britain wants to reinstate.

Source: DG Trade statistical guide June 2018 p22

No intra-EU trade is much higher for Eurozone nations for them physically bordering each other in a way we don't. For many EU nations trade going the distance of Edinburgh to London would class as INTRA-EU but it doesn't for us.

The point is, less UK EU trade simply reflects our lower trade overall. It isn't because the EU is protectionist and holding us back. The opposite in fact.

So we have a free trade agreement with the USA? Or China? Or Japan? In fact name one non-European nation with an economy larger than ours that we have a free trade agreement with.

Or are you claiming free trade agreements don't matter, in which case why does our EU membership matter?

Seems like you're trying to have your cake and eat it.

The EU is not a free trade agreement. It’s an integrated internal market.

FrancisUrquhart said:

Sandpit said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Casino_Royale said:

Stark_Dawning said:

Casino_Royale said:

Recidivist said:

Casino_Royale said:

At Aldershot station this morning: one lonely middle aged guy wearing an EU t-shirt with his resigned wife; twenty people all dressed up in suits and fascinators going to Royal Ascot.

Which event should I go to to avoid elitists?

Ascot.

Judging by the sound and style of the majority of the people on my train, it’s popular with the masses too.

Horrible people. I live in Windsor and Ascot week is dreaded. Imagine the most obnoxious drunken tw*ts from across the social spectrum descending upon one town and you'll get an idea. On Thursday I was abused by one 'racegoer' as I was walking home. A few years ago one attempted to rob me. Awful occasion. Awful drunken, nasty yobs.

Yes, unfortunately it does attract a few chavs. There is also quite a police presence here too.

Thankfully, not in my enclosure.

It does seem like the various big race festivals have now become big chav magnets.

One thing that racecourses are really good at is segregating attendees, with separate entrances and facilities. They never see each other all day until they get to the station in the evening.

AIUI the old “Silver Ring” chav zone at Ascot has now been moved from the 4 furlong pole next to the grandstand, across the track into the middle. They’ll barely see a horse all day.

Surprised the Gruardian haven't been all over this setup...poor doors are totally unacceptable ;-)

Sandpit said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Casino_Royale said:

Stark_Dawning said:

Casino_Royale said:

Recidivist said:

Casino_Royale said:

At Aldershot station this morning: one lonely middle aged guy wearing an EU t-shirt with his resigned wife; twenty people all dressed up in suits and fascinators going to Royal Ascot.

Which event should I go to to avoid elitists?

Ascot.

Judging by the sound and style of the majority of the people on my train, it’s popular with the masses too.

Horrible people. I live in Windsor and Ascot week is dreaded. Imagine the most obnoxious drunken tw*ts from across the social spectrum descending upon one town and you'll get an idea. On Thursday I was abused by one 'racegoer' as I was walking home. A few years ago one attempted to rob me. Awful occasion. Awful drunken, nasty yobs.

Yes, unfortunately it does attract a few chavs. There is also quite a police presence here too.

Thankfully, not in my enclosure.

It does seem like the various big race festivals have now become big chav magnets.

One thing that racecourses are really good at is segregating attendees, with separate entrances and facilities. They never see each other all day until they get to the station in the evening.

AIUI the old “Silver Ring” chav zone at Ascot has now been moved from the 4 furlong pole next to the grandstand, across the track into the middle. They’ll barely see a horse all day, let alone those who paid good money for grandstand tickets or the Royal Enclosure.

williamglenn said:

Not sure what Trump is trying to say here.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1010486772541816834

williamglenn said:

Philip_Thompson said:

williamglenn said:

Philip_Thompson said:

FF43 said:

Philip_Thompson said:

FF43 said:

Checked the figures. Non eu trade is 33% of GDP for the UK and 35% for the EU as a whole So not a huge difference. Intra EU trade much higher for eurozone countries thanks to the EU breaking down barriers Brexit Britain wants to reinstate.

Source: DG Trade statistical guide June 2018 p22

No intra-EU trade is much higher for Eurozone nations for them physically bordering each other in a way we don't. For many EU nations trade going the distance of Edinburgh to London would class as INTRA-EU but it doesn't for us.

The point is, less UK EU trade simply reflects our lower trade overall. It isn't because the EU is protectionist and holding us back. The opposite in fact.

So we have a free trade agreement with the USA? Or China? Or Japan? In fact name one non-European nation with an economy larger than ours that we have a free trade agreement with.

Or are you claiming free trade agreements don't matter, in which case why does our EU membership matter?

Seems like you're trying to have your cake and eat it.

The EU is not a free trade agreement. It’s an integrated internal market.

Yet our proportion of trade with the EU has shrank year on year relative to the rest of the world. Funny that. Anyway do free trade agreements matter or not in your eyes?

They matter, but multilateral agreements are much better if the aim is to increase overall trade

Philip_Thompson said:

williamglenn said:

Philip_Thompson said:

williamglenn said:

Philip_Thompson said:

FF43 said:

Philip_Thompson said:

FF43 said:

Checked the figures. Non eu trade is 33% of GDP for the UK and 35% for the EU as a whole So not a huge difference. Intra EU trade much higher for eurozone countries thanks to the EU breaking down barriers Brexit Britain wants to reinstate.

Source: DG Trade statistical guide June 2018 p22

No intra-EU trade is much higher for Eurozone nations for them physically bordering each other in a way we don't. For many EU nations trade going the distance of Edinburgh to London would class as INTRA-EU but it doesn't for us.

The point is, less UK EU trade simply reflects our lower trade overall. It isn't because the EU is protectionist and holding us back. The opposite in fact.

So we have a free trade agreement with the USA? Or China? Or Japan? In fact name one non-European nation with an economy larger than ours that we have a free trade agreement with.

Or are you claiming free trade agreements don't matter, in which case why does our EU membership matter?

Seems like you're trying to have your cake and eat it.

The EU is not a free trade agreement. It’s an integrated internal market.

Yet our proportion of trade with the EU has shrank year on year relative to the rest of the world. Funny that. Anyway do free trade agreements matter or not in your eyes?

They matter, but multilateral agreements are much better if the aim is to increase overall trade

So how many non-European nations with an economy larger than ours has the EU reached a multilateral agreement with?

Nigelb said:

Another Republican says vote Democrat in the midterms:
http://thehill.com/homenews/393728-george-will-argues-for-voting-against-the-gop-in-midterms

On its own, of little significance, but it’s just possible the ‘vote against Trump’s enablers’ call will get som traction.

williamglenn said:

Philip_Thompson said:

williamglenn said:

Philip_Thompson said:

williamglenn said:

Philip_Thompson said:

FF43 said:

Philip_Thompson said:

FF43 said:

Checked the figures. Non eu trade is 33% of GDP for the UK and 35% for the EU as a whole So not a huge difference. Intra EU trade much higher for eurozone countries thanks to the EU breaking down barriers Brexit Britain wants to reinstate.

Source: DG Trade statistical guide June 2018 p22

No intra-EU trade is much higher for Eurozone nations for them physically bordering each other in a way we don't. For many EU nations trade going the distance of Edinburgh to London would class as INTRA-EU but it doesn't for us.

The point is, less UK EU trade simply reflects our lower trade overall. It isn't because the EU is protectionist and holding us back. The opposite in fact.

So we have a free trade agreement with the USA? Or China? Or Japan? In fact name one non-European nation with an economy larger than ours that we have a free trade agreement with.

Or are you claiming free trade agreements don't matter, in which case why does our EU membership matter?

Seems like you're trying to have your cake and eat it.

The EU is not a free trade agreement. It’s an integrated internal market.

Yet our proportion of trade with the EU has shrank year on year relative to the rest of the world. Funny that. Anyway do free trade agreements matter or not in your eyes?

They matter, but multilateral agreements are much better if the aim is to increase overall trade

So how many non-European nations with an economy larger than ours has the EU reached a multilateral agreement with?

All of them. It's called the WTO.

Philip_Thompson said:

williamglenn said:

Philip_Thompson said:

williamglenn said:

Philip_Thompson said:

williamglenn said:

Philip_Thompson said:

FF43 said:

Philip_Thompson said:

FF43 said:

Checked the figures. Non eu trade is 33% of GDP for the UK and 35% for the EU as a whole So not a huge difference. Intra EU trade much higher for eurozone countries thanks to the EU breaking down barriers Brexit Britain wants to reinstate.

Source: DG Trade statistical guide June 2018 p22

No intra-EU trade is much higher for Eurozone nations for them physically bordering each other in a way we don't. For many EU nations trade going the distance of Edinburgh to London would class as INTRA-EU but it doesn't for us.

The point is, less UK EU trade simply reflects our lower trade overall. It isn't because the EU is protectionist and holding us back. The opposite in fact.

So we have a free trade agreement with the USA? Or China? Or Japan? In fact name one non-European nation with an economy larger than ours that we have a free trade agreement with.

Or are you claiming free trade agreements don't matter, in which case why does our EU membership matter?

Seems like you're trying to have your cake and eat it.

The EU is not a free trade agreement. It’s an integrated internal market.

Yet our proportion of trade with the EU has shrank year on year relative to the rest of the world. Funny that. Anyway do free trade agreements matter or not in your eyes?

They matter, but multilateral agreements are much better if the aim is to increase overall trade

So how many non-European nations with an economy larger than ours has the EU reached a multilateral agreement with?

All of them. It's called the WTO.

So WTO terms are good enough?

HYUFD said:

Nigelb said:

Another Republican says vote Democrat in the midterms:
http://thehill.com/homenews/393728-george-will-argues-for-voting-against-the-gop-in-midterms

On its own, of little significance, but it’s just possible the ‘vote against Trump’s enablers’ call will get som traction.

Of the last 10 midterms in a President's first term, the President's party has lost seats in 9 of them and control of at least one chamber of Congress in 4 of them so he is really just going with the tide which will be anti GOP in November anyway and Trump or no Trump that would likely still be the case

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Glenn, the UK* and France. England doesn't make trade deals separately from Scotland, nor vice versa.

OldKingCole said:

Sandpit said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Casino_Royale said:

Stark_Dawning said:

Casino_Royale said:

Recidivist said:

Casino_Royale said:

At Aldershot station this morning: one lonely middle aged guy wearing an EU t-shirt with his resigned wife; twenty people all dressed up in suits and fascinators going to Royal Ascot.

Which event should I go to to avoid elitists?

Ascot.

Judging by the sound and style of the majority of the people on my train, it’s popular with the masses too.

Horrible people. I live in Windsor and Ascot week is dreaded. Imagine the most obnoxious drunken tw*ts from across the social spectrum descending upon one town and you'll get an idea. On Thursday I was abused by one 'racegoer' as I was walking home. A few years ago one attempted to rob me. Awful occasion. Awful drunken, nasty yobs.

Yes, unfortunately it does attract a few chavs. There is also quite a police presence here too.

Thankfully, not in my enclosure.

It does seem like the various big race festivals have now become big chav magnets.

One thing that racecourses are really good at is segregating attendees, with separate entrances and facilities. They never see each other all day until they get to the station in the evening.

AIUI the old “Silver Ring” chav zone at Ascot has now been moved from the 4 furlong pole next to the grandstand, across the track into the middle. They’ll barely see a horse all day, let alone those who paid good money for grandstand tickets or the Royal Enclosure.

We’re on an organised ‘welcome’ trip to Chelmsford City races in August. First time I’ve been for ages and I don’t think my wife’s ever been. We used to go to the dogs now and then when there was a track near where we lived.