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Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Topping, trolling? Otherwise that analogy is utterly flawed.

Nobody thinks Star Wars is real. That doesn't mean people enjoy the rules of the universe being changed, or characters being rewritten. Internal consistency and plot coherence matter, as does not taking fans for granted.

I'm not clear how Last Jedi changed the rules of the universe. Some of the stuff I've seen alleging this is ridiculous. We've always known spaceships in Star Wars needed fuel so the idea they might run out of fuel is not that surprising. Similarly some of the stuff I've seen complaining about Leia's excursion into space makes statements about what would happen in real life that are just plain wrong.

Yes, the film added a couple of additional things that those powerful in the Force can do with it but that's been going on forever. And, given that the dead can use the Force to appear to the living, the additional things didn't seem particularly out of line to me.

Yes, Luke has changed but he is much older. Most of us change over time.

It does, of course, get the physics of space travel wrong in the same way as most SF films - sound in space, spacecraft needing to burn fuel to keep going at the same speed, etc. But those things crop up so often in SF that I've learnt to ignore them.

OldKingCole said:

Dura_Ace said:

TOPPING said:

No idea about that I wouldn't be surprised if it's outsourced.

All MoD fire and rescue services were outsourced to Capita by Michael Fallon.

Crapita!?!? So who is running them now? And what sort of state are they in?

We’re probably just hoping nothing catches fire.

MaxPB said:

The PSF figures don't make any kind of sense. There is nominal tax growth of around 4.5% YoY, inflation is running at 2.6%. The growth in government tax receipts is not consistent with stated GDP growth, especially given the lack of tax rises (and in some cases falling tax rates).

There is a disconnect, the deficit can't be falling as rapidly as it is if the economy saw just 1.2% YoY growth.

It is also somewhat odd that IT receipts rose that sharply when we were told that earnings were below inflation for most of the year and falling in real terms. It suggests those that are self employed (an ever expanding part of the workforce of course) are doing somewhat better. Which is again surprising if the GDP figure is right.

Dura_Ace said:

TOPPING said:

No idea about that I wouldn't be surprised if it's outsourced.

All MoD fire and rescue services were outsourced to Capita by Michael Fallon.

Yeah, that's what I was told when I looked at it. Just googled it again and Capita got awarded it this week, despite having the highest risk rating. I'm probably best off out if it.

DavidL said:

another_richard said:

Good government borrowing figures:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicsectorfinance/bulletins/publicsectorfinances/may2018#revisions-since-previous-release

2017/18 was now £39.5bn compared with the £45.2bn predicted by the OBR in March.

After two months 2018/19 is £4.2bn lower than after two months of 2017/18 - which is again better than the OBR forecast.

I think Hammond has been given his extra NHS money - I'm not sure he'll be that pleased.

So the OBR was £5.7bn out in their forecasts of the deficit one month before the end of the financial year? That's comfortably more than a 10% error. I'd really like to think that someone might be facing the sack for that level of incompetence.

I also find it remarkable that an economy that was, according to official figures, barely growing managed to increase employment by over 400k and reduce the deficit by £6.2bn. The latter number is even more remarkable when you consider that public spending rose at a fairly fast rate.

I think the ability to record economic activity is difficult, and it just doesn't make sense that at a time of a large increase in the overall number of employed people that there is a flat level of growth. However in the industry I work there are certainly the official books that people have and would share, but also other unrecorded income.

TGOHF said:

DavidL said:

another_richard said:

Good government borrowing figures:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicsectorfinance/bulletins/publicsectorfinances/may2018#revisions-since-previous-release

2017/18 was now £39.5bn compared with the £45.2bn predicted by the OBR in March.

After two months 2018/19 is £4.2bn lower than after two months of 2017/18 - which is again better than the OBR forecast.

I think Hammond has been given his extra NHS money - I'm not sure he'll be that pleased.

So the OBR was £5.7bn out in their forecasts of the deficit one month before the end of the financial year? That's comfortably more than a 10% error. I'd really like to think that someone might be facing the sack for that level of incompetence.

I also find it remarkable that an economy that was, according to official figures, barely growing managed to increase employment by over 400k and reduce the deficit by £6.2bn. The latter number is even more remarkable when you consider that public spending rose at a fairly fast rate.

The economy is doing well and the deficit is nearly gone #despiteHammond

I wouldn't say that a deficit of £39.5bn is "nearly gone". It remains worrying that we are borrowing at all this late in the economic cycle, let alone at that rate. What I think is clear is that the arguments that gave rise to 8 years of austerity are losing their force and a weak government will find it harder to resist increases in public sector pay, for example. Still, it does look as if finding the additional money for health is going to be less painful than feared.

As for Hammond, I think he has been a steady, if rather dull, hand on the tiller. If the OBR had been more accurate he may have found the pressure for a significant boost to housing, for example, harder to resist which would have significantly improved the chances of this government being re-elected. But I am not sure he would have taken it anyway.

https://twitter.com/bbcnormans/status/1009747653230505984?s=21

Another minister resigns:

https://twitter.com/GregHands/status/1009746370239127552

Nemtynakht said:

DavidL said:

another_richard said:

Good government borrowing figures:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicsectorfinance/bulletins/publicsectorfinances/may2018#revisions-since-previous-release

2017/18 was now £39.5bn compared with the £45.2bn predicted by the OBR in March.

After two months 2018/19 is £4.2bn lower than after two months of 2017/18 - which is again better than the OBR forecast.

I think Hammond has been given his extra NHS money - I'm not sure he'll be that pleased.

So the OBR was £5.7bn out in their forecasts of the deficit one month before the end of the financial year? That's comfortably more than a 10% error. I'd really like to think that someone might be facing the sack for that level of incompetence.

I also find it remarkable that an economy that was, according to official figures, barely growing managed to increase employment by over 400k and reduce the deficit by £6.2bn. The latter number is even more remarkable when you consider that public spending rose at a fairly fast rate.

I think the ability to record economic activity is difficult, and it just doesn't make sense that at a time of a large increase in the overall number of employed people that there is a flat level of growth. However in the industry I work there are certainly the official books that people have and would share, but also other unrecorded income.

I think that has always been the case but the fact that so much economic activity takes place online now must make it even harder to get accurate measurements, as must the increasing casualisation of the workforce through the gig economy. It's frustrating when these errors lead to bad economic decisions though.

CUrse of the long lens strikes again,

https://www.thesun.co.uk/world-cup-2018/6588916/world-cup-2018-england-team-leaked-raheem-sterling-panama/

AlastairMeeks said:

Another minister resigns:

https://twitter.com/GregHands/status/1009746370239127552

Well done Greg Hands. Or, as I believe the young people say, "props".

prh47bridge said:

OldKingCole said:

Dura_Ace said:

TOPPING said:

No idea about that I wouldn't be surprised if it's outsourced.

All MoD fire and rescue services were outsourced to Capita by Michael Fallon.

Crapita!?!? So who is running them now? And what sort of state are they in?

Capita. They aren't in great shape. Their latest accounts show a balance sheet value of minus £930M. Their loss in FY17 was double their loss in FY16.

Yes but they've had a succesful rights issue and were a great buy at the right price. I've exited now but my small stake did better than any of my political bets this year.

An honourable resignation: I'm sure the Minister for International Trade could have rustled up an overseas engagement if he'd felt it necessary.

So far as ministerial resignations go, this ranks about 0/10 in terms of implied Gov't difficulties going forward.

Anazina said:

Casino_Royale said:

TOPPING said:

Casino_Royale said:

The point is the MoD needs to be much more flexible in drawing upon the skills of the civilian population, which would be much better value for the taxpayer both in direct terms and in the cost and administrative efficiency of the armed forces themselves. At the moment the MoD is struggling to fill these positions, and take advantage of these skills, and this is a large part of the reason why.

I don’t think there’s anything I can say or do to influence conclusions you’ve already reached about me, which I suspect is largely goading for your entertainment, driven by our political differences, but I don’t make stuff like this up.

Others can decide what they think themselves.

The point is, like I'm sure many people who are doing well in their job, you want to "give something back" to the nation and, looking around at potential options, you thought: the army - they can use my skills.

You then say how the MoD needs to be much more flexible in asking @Casino_Royale to help them in their hour of need but unaccountably you haven't received the phone call.

But it is all bollocks. You don't have the commitment to do anything for HMF apart from repeating to yourself when you're in front of a mirror or on an internet chatroom what an asset you would be to them, and thereby feeling like you're "doing your bit".

Nothing to do with your political views. Which are what, by the way?

You have questioned my integrity this morning and basically called me a liar. You have now resorted to swearing.

This discussion is over.

Why this preoccupation with toy soldiers? If you are a good project manager in construction you "could give something back" by building a school in a deprived area.

Don't be a numpty talking about something you clearly don't understand. A project manager normally acts for a client as part of a project team of specialists i.e. Architect, quantity surveyor, building surveyors and works alongside management from a construction company. Even if he wanted to help in the way suggest he would need to have professional insurances which unless he is self employed he would not have.

The world would be a much better place if all of us took time to be a little bit kinder to those around us. You don't need to get involved in some grand scheme or plan. Plenty of kids need a mentor, plenty of old people need a visitor, plenty of differently able people need a helping hand to live alongside their community.

May should try and pair off Boris for a laugh

AndyJS said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Solo has been such a disaster that all other Star Wars spin off films have been put on an indefinite hold.

The problem with a lot of films today is that you feel like you're being lectured to from a particular point of view, whereas they used to simply tell a story. The first one in that category was Avatar which was like an anti-Bush lecture.

Really? You think this is new? Could you give a sample of films back in the day that "simply tell a story"?

https://twitter.com/adampayne26/status/1009742484061245440?s=21

DecrepitJohnL said:

Pulpstar said:

Was Hands in the cabinet ?

No, your bets are still running.

I'm on McVey this time round, though I think it'll be Grayling. I refuse to bet at short odds on this market though.

SandyRentool said:

So is BoJo going to follow Hands' example?

I don't think we should hold our breaths.

True , but will he lie down in front of the bulldozers ?

AndyJS said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Solo has been such a disaster that all other Star Wars spin off films have been put on an indefinite hold.

The problem with a lot of films today is that you feel like you're being lectured to from a particular point of view, whereas they used to simply tell a story. The first one in that category was Avatar which was like an anti-Bush lecture.

Probably the strangest moral message in a movie is The Lion King, which essentially boils down to "know your place"

TheScreamingEagles said:

I like Greg Hands.

He's resigned in a manner that reflects well on him and makes a return to ministerial office at the next reshuffle easier.

The fact he's made Boris look like a massive Johnson is pure coincidence on the part of Greg.

If Boris was a man of principle he'd resign too. If he believed in collective responsibility, he'd vote.
Abstaining as a Gov't minister just makes him look like a shitbag quite honestly.

Nigelb said:

Pulpstar said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

I like Greg Hands.

He's resigned in a manner that reflects well on him and makes a return to ministerial office at the next reshuffle easier.

The fact he's made Boris look like a massive Johnson is pure coincidence on the part of Greg.

If Boris was a man of principle he'd resign too. If he believed in collective responsibility, he'd vote.
Abstaining as a Gov't minister just makes him look like a shitbag the shitbag he is quite honestly.

Look like ... ?

Corrected

Mr. Stereotomy, not that strange. There's a strong tradition/cliche in fantasy of the farmhand's son being fantastic and then learning he's the King's real son.

It's somewhat ironic given there was more social mobility in the medieval era than is often assumed (cf William Marshal, Thomas Becket, John Hawkwood, Lanfranc). Not to say it was a full-blown meritocracy, of course.

DavidL said:

MaxPB said:

The PSF figures don't make any kind of sense. There is nominal tax growth of around 4.5% YoY, inflation is running at 2.6%. The growth in government tax receipts is not consistent with stated GDP growth, especially given the lack of tax rises (and in some cases falling tax rates).

There is a disconnect, the deficit can't be falling as rapidly as it is if the economy saw just 1.2% YoY growth.

It is also somewhat odd that IT receipts rose that sharply when we were told that earnings were below inflation for most of the year and falling in real terms. It suggests those that are self employed (an ever expanding part of the workforce of course) are doing somewhat better. Which is again surprising if the GDP figure is right.

Improvements in Self-Assessment tax payable will take some time to feed through to public finances, so perhaps reflective of stronger growth some time in the past?

BOJO man of principle?


His principal aim is to be PM

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Stereotomy, not that strange. There's a strong tradition/cliche in fantasy of the farmhand's son being fantastic and then learning he's the King's real son.

It's somewhat ironic given there was more social mobility in the medieval era than is often assumed (cf William Marshal, Thomas Becket, John Hawkwood, Lanfranc). Not to say it was a full-blown meritocracy, of course.

There's for sure a strong tradition of it, but it seems out of place in a modern Disney movie. It's not just that the protagonist is a prince, which isn't unusual, but that the movie is very explicitly making a moral statement. The Circle of Life and "Remember who you are" being the clearest examples of that.

https://twitter.com/michaellcrick/status/1009760273522151424?s=21

https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1009760744588697606

Mr. kle4, indeed, but the reaction to the apparent SJW approach of the bigwigs has not been positive.

On a similar note, Kingdom Come Deliverance showed how much success can be achieved by sticking to a vision (in their case, substantial realism) and ignoring the plaintive shrieks of people who wouldn't buy the game anyway (apparently 1403 Bohemia wasn't a hotbed of sexual equality and racial diversity. Gasp!).

Hungary have passed their anti-Soros law. I expect Italy and Austria to adopt similar measure wrt to charities enabling people trafficking. Spain have opened themselves up to a massive new migrant route, the minority coalition may fall over the issue and with a new leader PP may make a comeback sooner rather than later.

Mr. Stereotomy, that could also be read as a reminder of the responsibility of leadership.

And it is possible to read too much into things. The lion was just called the king because they have manes. Tigers are actually bigger.

bigjohnowls said:

BOJO man of principle?


His principal aim is to be PM

Bojo reminds me of nobody more than J Alfred Prufrock. Desperately longing to become PM but too afraid to force the matter to its conclusion

Mr. B, whilst I'm rambling on such things, Shere Khan was named after the Afghan prince Sher Khan Sur, who chased the second (and rubbish) 'Great' Moghal Emperor Humayun out of India.

Stereotomy said:

bigjohnowls said:

BOJO man of principle?


His principal aim is to be PM

Bojo reminds me of nobody more than J Alfred Prufrock. Desperately longing to become PM but too afraid to force the matter to its conclusion

Measured out his life with Latin tags and random shags, rather than coffee spoons...

https://twitter.com/johnestevens/status/1009757774908153856

Alistair said:

kle4 said:

AndyJS said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Solo has been such a disaster that all other Star Wars spin off films have been put on an indefinite hold.

The problem with a lot of films today is that you feel like you're being lectured to from a particular point of view, whereas they used to simply tell a story. The first one in that category was Avatar which was like an anti-Bush lecture.

That is so not some thing unique to films today. I'm to believe there were not movies doing that since movies began? Some movies were always like that.

Procedural/spectacle first message-lite films only really started in the 80's (probably heralded by Star Wars and Speilbergian efforts).

But they are, fundamentally a minorty in the history of film making, pretty much a 20 year blip and even the original star wars is riddled with 'message'.

"Who is more foolish? The Fool or the Fool wot follows it?"

MaxPB said:

Hungary have passed their anti-Soros law. I expect Italy and Austria to adopt similar measure wrt to charities enabling people trafficking. Spain have opened themselves up to a massive new migrant route, the minority coalition may fall over the issue and with a new leader PP may make a comeback sooner rather than later.

The PP have overtaken the liberal Citizens in most Spanish polls as the main challenger to the PSOE as the new Spanish government opens its doors to North African migrants just as in Italy the new government is shutting the doors on migrants there

If it wasn't for the deep ahistoricity of PB (as I frequently say, "PB has no memory"), the lack of knowledge about film here would have surprised me.

Film has been used for metaphor and propaganda since the very beginning. When was "Birth of a Nation" for pity's sake, the 1910s or 20s? It's effectively a Klan recruitment ad. "Battleship Potemkin", "In the Heat of the Night", "Kramer vs Kramer", "The Deerhunter", "Mrs Miniver", "A Matter of Life or Death", "Colonel Blimp" (short title, can't remember), "The Green Berets" "All Quiet on the Western Front", "Coming Home", "Gallipoli", "9 to 5", " all have an overt point and there's nothing there after 1981.

Aaaargh!

DavidL said:

another_richard said:

Good government borrowing figures:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicsectorfinance/bulletins/publicsectorfinances/may2018#revisions-since-previous-release

2017/18 was now £39.5bn compared with the £45.2bn predicted by the OBR in March.

After two months 2018/19 is £4.2bn lower than after two months of 2017/18 - which is again better than the OBR forecast.

I think Hammond has been given his extra NHS money - I'm not sure he'll be that pleased.

So the OBR was £5.7bn out in their forecasts of the deficit one month before the end of the financial year? That's comfortably more than a 10% error. I'd really like to think that someone might be facing the sack for that level of incompetence.

I also find it remarkable that an economy that was, according to official figures, barely growing managed to increase employment by over 400k and reduce the deficit by £6.2bn. The latter number is even more remarkable when you consider that public spending rose at a fairly fast rate.

Ito be fair to the OBR, it might be 10% of the deficit but it is 0.1% of the underlying income and expenditure figures

Nigelb said:

Alistair said:

kle4 said:

AndyJS said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Solo has been such a disaster that all other Star Wars spin off films have been put on an indefinite hold.

The problem with a lot of films today is that you feel like you're being lectured to from a particular point of view, whereas they used to simply tell a story. The first one in that category was Avatar which was like an anti-Bush lecture.

That is so not some thing unique to films today. I'm to believe there were not movies doing that since movies began? Some movies were always like that.

Procedural/spectacle first message-lite films only really started in the 80's (probably heralded by Star Wars and Speilbergian efforts).

But they are, fundamentally a minorty in the history of film making, pretty much a 20 year blip and even the original star wars is riddled with 'message'.

Really ?
I must have missed the deep social message in all that Astaire and Rogers stuff...

Deeply feminist.

GInger can do everything Fred can do. But backwards. And in heels!

TheWhiteRabbit said:

DavidL said:

another_richard said:

Good government borrowing figures:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicsectorfinance/bulletins/publicsectorfinances/may2018#revisions-since-previous-release

2017/18 was now £39.5bn compared with the £45.2bn predicted by the OBR in March.

After two months 2018/19 is £4.2bn lower than after two months of 2017/18 - which is again better than the OBR forecast.

I think Hammond has been given his extra NHS money - I'm not sure he'll be that pleased.

So the OBR was £5.7bn out in their forecasts of the deficit one month before the end of the financial year? That's comfortably more than a 10% error. I'd really like to think that someone might be facing the sack for that level of incompetence.

I also find it remarkable that an economy that was, according to official figures, barely growing managed to increase employment by over 400k and reduce the deficit by £6.2bn. The latter number is even more remarkable when you consider that public spending rose at a fairly fast rate.

Ito be fair to the OBR, it might be 10% of the deficit but it is 0.1% of the underlying income and expenditure figures

No, it was an in-year prediction that went against the City consensus of £38-39bn at the time. Even at the time I remember noting that they were going to be out by a fairly large figure on an in-year projection. If the City consensus could get it right without access to private government data, then how did the OBR mess it up?

CarlottaVance said:

Nigelb said:

Alistair said:

kle4 said:

AndyJS said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Solo has been such a disaster that all other Star Wars spin off films have been put on an indefinite hold.

The problem with a lot of films today is that you feel like you're being lectured to from a particular point of view, whereas they used to simply tell a story. The first one in that category was Avatar which was like an anti-Bush lecture.

That is so not some thing unique to films today. I'm to believe there were not movies doing that since movies began? Some movies were always like that.

Procedural/spectacle first message-lite films only really started in the 80's (probably heralded by Star Wars and Speilbergian efforts).

But they are, fundamentally a minorty in the history of film making, pretty much a 20 year blip and even the original star wars is riddled with 'message'.

Really ?
I must have missed the deep social message in all that Astaire and Rogers stuff...

Deeply feminist.

GInger can do everything Fred can do. But backwards. And in heels!

Except negotiate pay and publicity.

prh47bridge said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Topping, trolling? Otherwise that analogy is utterly flawed.

Nobody thinks Star Wars is real. That doesn't mean people enjoy the rules of the universe being changed, or characters being rewritten. Internal consistency and plot coherence matter, as does not taking fans for granted.

I'm not clear how Last Jedi changed the rules of the universe. Some of the stuff I've seen alleging this is ridiculous. We've always known spaceships in Star Wars needed fuel so the idea they might run out of fuel is not that surprising. Similarly some of the stuff I've seen complaining about Leia's excursion into space makes statements about what would happen in real life that are just plain wrong.

Yes, the film added a couple of additional things that those powerful in the Force can do with it but that's been going on forever. And, given that the dead can use the Force to appear to the living, the additional things didn't seem particularly out of line to me.

Yes, Luke has changed but he is much older. Most of us change over time.

It does, of course, get the physics of space travel wrong in the same way as most SF films - sound in space, spacecraft needing to burn fuel to keep going at the same speed, etc. But those things crop up so often in SF that I've learnt to ignore them.

There was also the use of things like dropping bombs and plasma bolts arcing downwards that made one suspect they didn't understand how gravity works offplanet. Plus the whole use-hyperspeed-as-a-weapon thing is very difficult to fit into the previous films. You can patch it over (and many have) but it made suspension of belief difficult.

Plus the casino sidequest was weird.

Nigelb said:

Alistair said:

kle4 said:

AndyJS said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Solo has been such a disaster that all other Star Wars spin off films have been put on an indefinite hold.

The problem with a lot of films today is that you feel like you're being lectured to from a particular point of view, whereas they used to simply tell a story. The first one in that category was Avatar which was like an anti-Bush lecture.

That is so not some thing unique to films today. I'm to believe there were not movies doing that since movies began? Some movies were always like that.

Procedural/spectacle first message-lite films only really started in the 80's (probably heralded by Star Wars and Speilbergian efforts).

But they are, fundamentally a minorty in the history of film making, pretty much a 20 year blip and even the original star wars is riddled with 'message'.

Really ?
I must have missed the deep social message in all that Astaire and Rogers stuff...

You did. Pure Depression-era escapism.

Stereotomy said:

bigjohnowls said:

BOJO man of principle?


His principal aim is to be PM

Bojo reminds me of nobody more than J Alfred Prufrock. Desperately longing to become PM but too afraid to force the matter to its conclusion

Spot on. The problem for him now is that the next time an opportunity comes along, it will almost certainly be because someone else has forced the matter.

That said, if Boris *had* resigned over LHR3, then whether or not it was done on principle, it would undoubtedly be viewed by the media commentariat through the lenses of his leadership ambitions and Brexit.

Bromptonaut said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

The Kiwis don't seem convinced Brexit will happen.
https://twitter.com/MFATgovtNZ/status/1009596567307685889

Current New Zealand Foreign Minister Winston Peters (currently PM while Ardern is on maternity leave) met Boris Johnson only recently and has been pushing a trade deal with the UK as 'an absolute priority' post Brexit



https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11663367

So what? 0.2% of our foreign trade is with New Zealand.

Given that, anyone would think it's on the other side of the world.

0.2% is still better than 0% and it is a start for Fox and Bojo

MaxPB said:

how did the OBR mess it up?

They employ economists, not statisticians.

(sorry, old hobby-horse)