politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Theresa May has finally united the country on Brexit
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Here we go again with the pro remain sunday papers,it's every bloody sunday with the big anti brexit headlines.0
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May is running rings round the lot of them.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
I wouldn't. Well not in the way you mean. There is no requirement under the GFA for a 'no infrastructure' border. This is just something that Eire and the EU are insisting upon and May was dumb enough to agree to. It is simply impossible under EU rules without us remaining in the EU as full members.Elliot said:
Can you explain more? How would you deal with NI?
As such I would not even try to go for a no border solution. EU rules say it is not possible so it is their problem not ours.0 -
Why is this news?TheScreamingEagles said:
The EU want us to remain in a customs union, and if we wish to access the single market on decent terms we must accept FOM or pay heavily. Probably both.
If that’s an ambush, it’s one that we’ve seen coming for nearly two years!0 -
A request - would any leave supporters be willing to comment on what they expect the import/export relationship between the UK and the EU to look like on 1 January 2021? I’m thinking of the common example of a UK manufacturer that imports a chunk of its materials/components from the EU and sells say 60% of its product to EU resident customers (spread across various countries). What will customs duties, product standards and other regulatory barriers look like? What additional costs will they have to bear and how will the time taken to get goods in/out of the EU change? What additional benefits or opportunities will be available? Should they change their business model in advance?
This isn’t a debating position dressed up as a question; I advise companies on related tax issues and am always keen to understand how people starting from different viewpoints think this will actually play out in the real world.0 -
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I'm not. If Russia tried to interfere with the referendum or any election I want that investigated fully. I'm not sure what can be done about it, though. Russia could easily pose for the opposite side in future to hurt them.Gardenwalker said:
Tautology doesn’t tell us anything meaningful about why you’re happy to shrug off Russian interference.tlg86 said:
A foreign power is a foreign power, irrespective of how they behave.Gardenwalker said:
Yes, and those others include Russia and her apologists in the West.tlg86 said:
Apologies. Well, you're more than welcome to call me a traitor to my face.Gardenwalker said:
I am in Britain, you twit.tlg86 said:A message for deluded remainers. You lost because when it came to it, you had nothing positive to say about the EU.
Not because of Russia.
@Gardenwalker - Why don't you come to Britain and say that to my face.
Quite frankly, your dancing on the head of a pin saying that Cameron just called in a favour from Obama. As others have pointed out, the US isn't exactly a paragon of virtue.
It is of course fine to criticise the US. Who doesn’t? It becomes rather alarming, though, when you can’t see the difference between the US and Russia.
And on Russia in general, I don't think we should be going anywhere near Russia for the World Cup.0 -
Coming to the Daily Mail soon, day in, day out.Tykejohnno said:Here we go again with the pro remain sunday papers,it's every bloody sunday with the big anti brexit headlines.
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Yes, they know which way the wind is blowing.williamglenn said:
Coming to the Daily Mail soon, day in, day out.Tykejohnno said:Here we go again with the pro remain sunday papers,it's every bloody sunday with the big anti brexit headlines.
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I'm interested in knowing more about the FDI change.Gardenwalker said:
The drop in FDI is massive. That’s a real world stat. The question is, as you say, why it is not showing up in aggregate unemployment figures.Elliot said:
Migratirisis is already starting.Gardenwalker said:
I’m seeing a slow migration of activity from the U.K. on my industry. Not a collapse, more of a tide going out.another_richard said:Gardenwalker said:
Actually this board was wall to wall disaster - from Remainers and Brexiters alike - on Friday.another_richard said:
We've had people pointing and claiming its a disaster since 24/06/16.Gardenwalker said:
I disagree.Richard_Tyndall said:
we will be leaving.Gardenwalker said:Brexit is dying.
Philosophica that pivot.
It’s Emperor’s New Clothes, and once someone is brave enough to point and laugh (or pivot to EEA as I suggest) the whole rotten carapace will collapse.
But the reasons that they've been claiming have become thinner and thinner.
By now they expected to be knee deep in closed car factories, departing bankers and crops rotting in the fields.
Get up to speed, grandaddy. The arguments that “won” the vote are not enough to sustain it.
I assume it manifests at present as lost growth, and lost total employment rather than unemployment. The tragedy is that’s difficult to quantify.
The ONS suggests that it might be nothing more than a return to the norm:
' In 2016, there were a few very high-value inward mergers and acquisitions that completed in that year, which led to the value of FDI inflows reaching £199.4 billion – this was a record high and more than five-times greater than the value recorded in 2015. While this is the highest annual value of inward FDI flows, the 2016 inward value is comparable with outward FDI flows in 2007 and 2008, and 1999 and 2000. Some of the large publicly-reported mergers and acquisitions (M&A) transactions in 2016 included the acquisitions of SABMiller (PDF, 225KB), ARM Holdings and BG Group. '
It gives these as the foreign direct investment inflows of recent years:
2010 £42bn
2011 £17bn
2012 £30bn
2013 £36bn
2014 £37bn
2015 £30bn
2016 £199bn
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpayments/articles/ukforeigndirectinvestmenttrendsandanalysis/january20180 -
Can you please stop bringing facts into this?another_richard said:
I'm interested in knowing more about the FDI change.Gardenwalker said:
The drop in FDI is massive. That’s a real world stat. The question is, as you say, why it is not showing up in aggregate unemployment figures.Elliot said:
Migratirisis is already starting.Gardenwalker said:
I’m seeing a slow migration of activity from the U.K. on my industry. Not a collapse, more of a tide going out.another_richard said:Gardenwalker said:
Actually this board was wall to wall disaster - from Remainers and Brexiters alike - on Friday.another_richard said:
We've had people pointing and claiming its a disaster since 24/06/16.Gardenwalker said:
I disagree.Richard_Tyndall said:
we will be leaving.Gardenwalker said:Brexit is dying.
Philosophica that pivot.
It’s Emperor’s New Clothes, and once someone is brave enough to point and laugh (or pivot to EEA as I suggest) the whole rotten carapace will collapse.
But the reasons that they've been claiming have become thinner and thinner.
By now they expected to be knee deep in closed car factories, departing bankers and crops rotting in the fields.
Get up to speed, grandaddy. The arguments that “won” the vote are not enough to sustain it.
I assume it manifests at present as lost growth, and lost total employment rather than unemployment. The tragedy is that’s difficult to quantify.
The ONS suggests that it might be nothing more than a return to the norm:
' In 2016, there were a few very high-value inward mergers and acquisitions that completed in that year, which led to the value of FDI inflows reaching £199.4 billion – this was a record high and more than five-times greater than the value recorded in 2015. While this is the highest annual value of inward FDI flows, the 2016 inward value is comparable with outward FDI flows in 2007 and 2008, and 1999 and 2000. Some of the large publicly-reported mergers and acquisitions (M&A) transactions in 2016 included the acquisitions of SABMiller (PDF, 225KB), ARM Holdings and BG Group. '
It gives these as the foreign direct investment inflows of recent years:
2010 £42bn
2011 £17bn
2012 £30bn
2013 £36bn
2014 £37bn
2015 £30bn
2016 £199bn
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpayments/articles/ukforeigndirectinvestmenttrendsandanalysis/january20180 -
I admitted that it was a fairly finely balanced decision at the time and since. There are good aspects of the EU. It would be absurd to claim otherwise. The EU has been an anchor for the Eastern European countries escaping communism, for example, helping to ingrain democracy and human rights in those countries. The fact that they have not been wholly successful does not take away from the broad proposition.JosiasJessop said:
I did try to say something positive about the EU on a couple of occasions. True, it was a small area, and one that could be argued to be inconsequential, but an area where the EU has been a positive. All I got in response were (to use your wording) 'deluded' leavers telling me that I was lying, that I was wrong, etc, etc. Despite my giving lots of links and supporting information.tlg86 said:A message for deluded remainers. You lost because when it came to it, you had nothing positive to say about the EU.
Not because of Russia.
(Snip)
They did not argue the information, and they did not argue the consequences of that information. They could not countenance that there might even be a small area where the EU has been a positive. One poster who had been arguing with me eventually admitted he'd not even looked at the supporting information.
Now, IMO the correct response would have been something like: "Okay, I'll give you that. The EU isn't totally bad. But if you weigh it up against all the negatives, it's still bad."
But not one of the 'deluded' leavers on here could do that. If you didn't hear anything positive about the EU, might it be because you are incapable of hearing anything positive about it?
Without it being an unmixed blessing the standardisation of EU product requirements have probably saved lives and improved safety. The EU is better placed to take on the abuse of monopoly powers such as Microsoft, Google or Facebook than we will be.
But it is so not worth it.
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https://twitter.com/michaelsavage/status/1005557794777587712
Actually not as mad as it sounds. All Government departments have such facilities already0 -
Apologies in advance for a longish post as I am trying to answer as fully as I can.Polruan said:A request - would any leave supporters be willing to comment on what they expect the import/export relationship between the UK and the EU to look like on 1 January 2021? I’m thinking of the common example of a UK manufacturer that imports a chunk of its materials/components from the EU and sells say 60% of its product to EU resident customers (spread across various countries). What will customs duties, product standards and other regulatory barriers look like? What additional costs will they have to bear and how will the time taken to get goods in/out of the EU change? What additional benefits or opportunities will be available? Should they change their business model in advance?
This isn’t a debating position dressed up as a question; I advise companies on related tax issues and am always keen to understand how people starting from different viewpoints think this will actually play out in the real world.
I have no crystal ball but I would suggest that it will be very different depending on whether you are looking at goods or services.
I would expect that there will be complete alignment of regulation and standards as far as goods exported to the EU are concerned but not necessarily for those sold within the UK (just as we have to produce to different standards for the US compared to the EU). But given that we are starting at a point where we are currently in full alignment, any changes by 2021 will be so slight as to be unimportant. Basic inertia will have prevented any dramatic variance by that point.
As an aside the interesting point will be that when discussing future regulatory changes - which are overwhelmingly decided at international bodies above the EU level - we will be able to make our own contribution rather than having 1/27th of a voice through the EU.
On services the inertia point still stands as far as basic standards and regulation goes.
The big difference will be on whether or not we have a trade deal on just goods or on goods and services. I think the former is very likely as it will be in everyone's interests. I think the latter is far more problematic and will depend on just how much or how little EU companies need access to the City. But even under the best of conditions I would be surprised if we have a deal on services within the transition period.
If I can be catty for a minute this all of course depends very much on who is running the show on the British side. If it is May I would not be overly surprised to find she has bricked up the Channel Tunnel and mined the Straits of Dover.0 -
2017 was around £15bn, I think.another_richard said:
' In 2016, there were a few very high-value inward mergers and acquisitions that completed in that year, which led to the value of FDI inflows reaching £199.4 billion – this was a record high and more than five-times greater than the value recorded in 2015. While this is the highest annual value of inward FDI flows, the 2016 inward value is comparable with outward FDI flows in 2007 and 2008, and 1999 and 2000. Some of the large publicly-reported mergers and acquisitions (M&A) transactions in 2016 included the acquisitions of SABMiller (PDF, 225KB), ARM Holdings and BG Group. 'Gardenwalker said:
.Elliot said:
Migratirisis is already starting.Gardenwalker said:
I’m seeing a slow migration of activity from the U.K. on my industry. Not a collapse, more of a tide going out.another_richard said:Gardenwalker said:
Actually this board was wall to wall disaster - from Remainers and Brexiters alike - on Friday.another_richard said:
We've had people pointing and claiming its a disaster since 24/06/16.Gardenwalker said:
I disagree.Richard_Tyndall said:
we will be leaving.Gardenwalker said:Brexit is dying.
Philosophica that pivot.
It’s Emperor’s New Clothes, and once someone is brave enough to point and laugh (or pivot to EEA as I suggest) the whole rotten carapace will collapse.
But the reasons that they've been claiming have become thinner and thinner.
By now they expected to be knee deep in closed car factories, departing bankers and crops rotting in the fields.
Get up to speed, grandaddy. The arguments that “won” the vote are not enough to sustain it.
It gives these as the foreign direct investment inflows of recent years:
2010 £42bn
2011 £17bn
2012 £30bn
2013 £36bn
2014 £37bn
2015 £30bn
2016 £199bn
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpayments/articles/ukforeigndirectinvestmenttrendsandanalysis/january2018
Half or less of trend.0 -
I remember seeing this live and thinking much the same.Gardenwalker said:0 -
It seems that the big FDI in 2016 is because this company (plus a few others) was bought:tlg86 said:
Can you please stop bringing facts into this?another_richard said:
I'm interested in knowing more about the FDI change.Gardenwalker said:
The drop in FDI is massive. That’s a real world stat. The question is, as you say, why it is not showing up in aggregate unemployment figures.Elliot said:
Migratirisis is already starting.
I assume it manifests at present as lost growth, and lost total employment rather than unemployment. The tragedy is that’s difficult to quantify.
The ONS suggests that it might be nothing more than a return to the norm:
' In 2016, there were a few very high-value inward mergers and acquisitions that completed in that year, which led to the value of FDI inflows reaching £199.4 billion – this was a record high and more than five-times greater than the value recorded in 2015. While this is the highest annual value of inward FDI flows, the 2016 inward value is comparable with outward FDI flows in 2007 and 2008, and 1999 and 2000. Some of the large publicly-reported mergers and acquisitions (M&A) transactions in 2016 included the acquisitions of SABMiller (PDF, 225KB), ARM Holdings and BG Group. '
It gives these as the foreign direct investment inflows of recent years:
2010 £42bn
2011 £17bn
2012 £30bn
2013 £36bn
2014 £37bn
2015 £30bn
2016 £199bn
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpayments/articles/ukforeigndirectinvestmenttrendsandanalysis/january2018
' SABMiller plc was a multinational brewing and beverage company headquartered in Woking, England on the outskirts of London until 10 October 2016 when it was acquired by Anheuser-Busch InBev. Prior to that date, it was the world's second-largest brewer measured by revenues (after Anheuser-Busch InBev) and was also a major bottler of Coca-Cola.[2][3] Its brands included Fosters, Miller, and Pilsner Urquell.[2] It operated in 80 countries worldwide and in 2009 sold around 21 billion litres of beverages.[2] Since 10 October 2016, SABMiller has been a business division of Anheuser-Busch InBev SA/NV, a Brazilian-Belgian corporation with headquarters in Leuven. '
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SABMiller
I notice that the purchase happened after the Referendum so surely that counts as FDI resulting from Leave winning
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Taking advantage of fire-sale assets after the pound dropped, more like.another_richard said:
It seems that the big FDI in 2016 is because this company (plus a few others) was bought:tlg86 said:
Can you please stop bringing facts into this?another_richard said:
I'm interested in knowing more about the FDI change.Gardenwalker said:
The drop in FDI is massive. That’s a real world stat. The question is, as you say, why it is not showing up in aggregate unemployment figures.Elliot said:
Migratirisis is already starting.
I assume it manifests at present as lost growth, and lost total employment rather than unemployment. The tragedy is that’s difficult to quantify.
The ONS suggests that it might be nothing more than a return to the norm:
' In 2016, there were a few very high-value inward mergers and acquisitions that completed in that year, which led to the value of FDI inflows reaching £199.4 billion – this was a record high and more than five-times greater than the value recorded in 2015. While this is the highest annual value of inward FDI flows, the 2016 inward value is comparable with outward FDI flows in 2007 and 2008, and 1999 and 2000. Some of the large publicly-reported mergers and acquisitions (M&A) transactions in 2016 included the acquisitions of SABMiller (PDF, 225KB), ARM Holdings and BG Group. '
It gives these as the foreign direct investment inflows of recent years:
2010 £42bn
2011 £17bn
2012 £30bn
2013 £36bn
2014 £37bn
2015 £30bn
2016 £199bn
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpayments/articles/ukforeigndirectinvestmenttrendsandanalysis/january2018
' SABMiller plc was a multinational brewing and beverage company headquartered in Woking, England on the outskirts of London until 10 October 2016 when it was acquired by Anheuser-Busch InBev. Prior to that date, it was the world's second-largest brewer measured by revenues (after Anheuser-Busch InBev) and was also a major bottler of Coca-Cola.[2][3] Its brands included Fosters, Miller, and Pilsner Urquell.[2] It operated in 80 countries worldwide and in 2009 sold around 21 billion litres of beverages.[2] Since 10 October 2016, SABMiller has been a business division of Anheuser-Busch InBev SA/NV, a Brazilian-Belgian corporation with headquarters in Leuven. '
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SABMiller
I notice that the purchase happened after the Referendum so surely that counts as FDI resulting from Leave winning0 -
But how much of this FDI in any year is actual foreign direct investment in the way Nissan invested in Sunderland rather than some foreign based multinational buying a British based multinational ?Gardenwalker said:
2017 was around £15bn, I think.another_richard said:
' In 2016, there were a few very high-value inward mergers and acquisitions that completed in that year, which led to the value of FDI inflows reaching £199.4 billion – this was a record high and more than five-times greater than the value recorded in 2015. While this is the highest annual value of inward FDI flows, the 2016 inward value is comparable with outward FDI flows in 2007 and 2008, and 1999 and 2000. Some of the large publicly-reported mergers and acquisitions (M&A) transactions in 2016 included the acquisitions of SABMiller (PDF, 225KB), ARM Holdings and BG Group. 'Gardenwalker said:
.Elliot said:
Migratirisis is already starting.Gardenwalker said:
I’m seeing a slow migration of activity from the U.K. on my industry. Not a collapse, more of a tide going out.another_richard said:Gardenwalker said:
Actually this board was wall to wall disaster - from Remainers and Brexiters alike - on Friday.another_richard said:
We've had people pointing and claiming its a disaster since 24/06/16.Gardenwalker said:
I disagree.Richard_Tyndall said:
we will be leaving.Gardenwalker said:Brexit is dying.
Philosophica that pivot.
It’s Emperor’s New Clothes, and once someone is brave enough to point and laugh (or pivot to EEA as I suggest) the whole rotten carapace will collapse.
But the reasons that they've been claiming have become thinner and thinner.
By now they expected to be knee deep in closed car factories, departing bankers and crops rotting in the fields.
Get up to speed, grandaddy. The arguments that “won” the vote are not enough to sustain it.
It gives these as the foreign direct investment inflows of recent years:
2010 £42bn
2011 £17bn
2012 £30bn
2013 £36bn
2014 £37bn
2015 £30bn
2016 £199bn
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpayments/articles/ukforeigndirectinvestmenttrendsandanalysis/january2018
Half or less of trend.0 -
The Sunday Times is a Leave paper.Tykejohnno said:Here we go again with the pro remain sunday papers,it's every bloody sunday with the big anti brexit headlines.
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I'm not sure this sort of thing is good news or not. SAB Miller had a place in Woking which I think was going to close because of that takeover - though I can't find out if it actually did.another_richard said:
It seems that the big FDI in 2016 is because this company (plus a few others) was bought:tlg86 said:
Can you please stop bringing facts into this?another_richard said:
I'm interested in knowing more about the FDI change.Gardenwalker said:
The drop in FDI is massive. That’s a real world stat. The question is, as you say, why it is not showing up in aggregate unemployment figures.Elliot said:
Migratirisis is already starting.
I assume it manifests at present as lost growth, and lost total employment rather than unemployment. The tragedy is that’s difficult to quantify.
The ONS suggests that it might be nothing more than a return to the norm:
' In 2016, there were a few very high-value inward mergers and acquisitions that completed in that year, which led to the value of FDI inflows reaching £199.4 billion – this was a record high and more than five-times greater than the value recorded in 2015. While this is the highest annual value of inward FDI flows, the 2016 inward value is comparable with outward FDI flows in 2007 and 2008, and 1999 and 2000. Some of the large publicly-reported mergers and acquisitions (M&A) transactions in 2016 included the acquisitions of SABMiller (PDF, 225KB), ARM Holdings and BG Group. '
It gives these as the foreign direct investment inflows of recent years:
2010 £42bn
2011 £17bn
2012 £30bn
2013 £36bn
2014 £37bn
2015 £30bn
2016 £199bn
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpayments/articles/ukforeigndirectinvestmenttrendsandanalysis/january2018
' SABMiller plc was a multinational brewing and beverage company headquartered in Woking, England on the outskirts of London until 10 October 2016 when it was acquired by Anheuser-Busch InBev. Prior to that date, it was the world's second-largest brewer measured by revenues (after Anheuser-Busch InBev) and was also a major bottler of Coca-Cola.[2][3] Its brands included Fosters, Miller, and Pilsner Urquell.[2] It operated in 80 countries worldwide and in 2009 sold around 21 billion litres of beverages.[2] Since 10 October 2016, SABMiller has been a business division of Anheuser-Busch InBev SA/NV, a Brazilian-Belgian corporation with headquarters in Leuven. '
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SABMiller
I notice that the purchase happened after the Referendum so surely that counts as FDI resulting from Leave winning0 -
Fantastic post, you’re absolutely right.Barnesian said:
I think it is narrower than that. To him all that matters is him.surby said:
Trump is not an idealogue. Trump is about Trump. To him the only thing that matters is what his policies do to Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Ohio, Florida and Iowa. He does not give a ____ about anything else.SouthamObserver said:
Really?Barnesian said:
That is a wonderful photograph. Look at the body language. Macron is speaking. Bolton is aghast. Merkel is dominant - "What do you have to say for yourself, boy?" Theresa is tucked in behind. Juncker is steadying himself. Trump is a shrunken but defiant little boy, arms crossed.williamglenn said:
.
A picture is worth a 1000 words.
I see someone sitting there not giving a flying fuck; someone who will do whatever he wants whenever he wants, no matter what harm it causes his own people and others; someone who is impossible to engage with on a rational basis.
He needs constant reassurance that he's a great president - hence the sycophancy of those around him.
He needs to be seen to win. Hence his twitter battles. And his obsession with Obama. His abuse of American power for short term demonstrations of his ability to wield that power - even if it undermines the long term interests of the US.
He's a deeply insecure man who admires strong men - Putin, Macron, Netanyahu - and needs to prove his masculinity with his trophy wives and conquests. He doesn't admire strong women who are a great threat to him.
He can't be seen to fail. He'll rationalise failure away but I fear his response if a major failure happens that he can't rationalise away. Next test is on Tuesday.0 -
Isabel Oakeshott is maintaining her reputation as Britain's least trustworthy journalist I see. Given how she treats her friends I’d rather be her enemy.0
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Thanks for taking the time to comment. I agree with you on effective reg alignment on goods and the issues on services (though services are less relevant to the client base I advise). Given that May is currently running the show what do you actually expect in practice - will our desire to enforce independent standards and the EU carrying out third-country border checks create big delays on imports and exports? If it was your money at stake would you be establishing operations in another EU country in case the Channel Tunnel is bricked up, for example?Richard_Tyndall said:
Apologies in advance for a longish post as I am trying to answer as fully as I can.Polruan said:A re
.
I have no crystal ball but I would suggest that it will be very different depending on whether you are looking at goods or services.
I would expect that there will be complete alignment of regulation and standards as far as goods exported to the EU are concerned but not necessarily for those sold within the UK (just as we have to produce to different standards for the US compared to the EU). But given that we are starting at a point where we are currently in full alignment, any changes by 2021 will be so slight as to be unimportant. Basic inertia will have prevented any dramatic variance by that point.
As an aside the interesting point will be that when discussing future regulatory changes - which are overwhelmingly decided at international bodies above the EU level - we will be able to make our own contribution rather than having 1/27th of a voice through the EU.
On services the inertia point still stands as far as basic standards and regulation goes.
The big difference will be on whether or not we have a trade deal on just goods or on goods and services. I think the former is very likely as it will be in everyone's interests. I think the latter is far more problematic and will depend on just how much or how little EU companies need access to the City. But even under the best of conditions I would be surprised if we have a deal on services within the transition period.
If I can be catty for a minute this all of course depends very much on who is running the show on the British side. If it is May I would not be overly surprised to find she has bricked up the Channel Tunnel and mined the Straits of Dover.0 -
It just demonstrates what a poor indicator FDI is. Foreigners buying up British infrastructure and business is very different to capital investment in new facilities. For that surely current account deficit matters more.tlg86 said:
I'm not sure this sort of thing is good news or not. SAB Miller had a place in Woking which I think was going to close because of that takeover - though I can't find out if it actually did.another_richard said:
It seems that the big FDI in 2016 is because this company (plus a few others) was bought:tlg86 said:
Can you please stop bringing facts into this?another_richard said:
I'm interestedGardenwalker said:
The drop in FDI is massive. That’s a real world stat. The question is, as you say, why it is not showing up in aggregate unemployment figures.Elliot said:
Migratirisis is already starting.
I assume it manifests at present as lost growth, and lost total employment rather than unemployment. The tragedy is that’s difficult to quantify.
It gives these as the foreign direct investment inflows of recent years:
2010 £42bn
2011 £17bn
2012 £30bn
2013 £36bn
2014 £37bn
2015 £30bn
2016 £199bn
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpayments/articles/ukforeigndirectinvestmenttrendsandanalysis/january2018
' SABMiller plc was a multinational brewing and beverage company headquartered in Woking, England on the outskirts of London until 10 October 2016 when it was acquired by Anheuser-Busch InBev. Prior to that date, it was the world's second-largest brewer measured by revenues (after Anheuser-Busch InBev) and was also a major bottler of Coca-Cola.[2][3] Its brands included Fosters, Miller, and Pilsner Urquell.[2] It operated in 80 countries worldwide and in 2009 sold around 21 billion litres of beverages.[2] Since 10 October 2016, SABMiller has been a business division of Anheuser-Busch InBev SA/NV, a Brazilian-Belgian corporation with headquarters in Leuven. '
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SABMiller
I notice that the purchase happened after the Referendum so surely that counts as FDI resulting from Leave winning
Whether in or out of the EU or EEA, the issue really is how developed economies come to terms with the phenomenon of globalisation, and in particular the rise of China and other emerging Asia. The EU has problems adjusting, and has had an outbreak of economic populism, but so have non EU OECD countries, with only the primary producers of Canada and Australia doing well, and then principally in the sectors producing for Chinese industry. Outside the EU, things are unlikely to improve for the people of Hartlepool and the Welsh Valleys.0 -
test0
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To polruan
This is a very hard question to answer because you have defined a narrow company i.e a company that imports 60% from the EU and the sales are 60% EU.
I have said on here that my brother is a joint owner of a company that designs and manufactures production machines (i.e machines that are used in manufacturing lines) here in the UK. It would be classified as large on the small scale, small on the medium scale. But they sell to the worlds multinationals.
First off they do not buy more than 20% from the EU ex UK. They know all of the UK suppliers and they all talk together, my father was in manufacturing and my brother deals with the sons and daughters of the fathers and mothers my Dad dealt with. People deal with people they like.
Second point is before the GFC my brothers business was 80% EU including UK and 20% RoW. Now it is 80% RoW and 20% EU plus UK (The EU bit is now very small with UK removed). They had to make this switch to survive Continental EU was a disaster zone post 2008 and they put in a lot of effort to achieve this.
He does not care about EU product standards, the product standards almost always orginate from a global source, the EU rubber stamps them For example in the car industry for a global model, they make three base versions - US, RoW LHD and RoW RHD. There is no specific EU model. This is to the EU's credit. So he makes machines to the global standards.
But what the EU does do is now it makes non product standards, i.e health and safety, social working time directives, environmental, etc.
He is currently moaning vocally about a proposed EU law that means for health and safety reasons he must have an employee in the the EU country a machine is installed in. They have invested heavily in internet access and control of the machine to reduce costs for the customer. the proposed EU ruling means this would be a wasted investment.
PS The whole factory workforce voted out. Just like all the manufacturing regions. They did this for the reasons above.0 -
They had best hope they did not criticise Corbyn for, knowingly or otherwise, being party to unacceptable Facebook groups, or else they will now look very silly indeed. What was not right for one cannot be right for another.TheScreamingEagles said:
For some reason even the people who cover elections seem to think they are not interesting enough on their own and need something extra to get people interested.Anazina said:
I remember seeing this live and thinking much the same.Gardenwalker said:
Personally I think if people are not election wonks there's only so much you can do to engage them.0 -
Lets look at some actual ONS regarding business investment.
Here are the cumulative four quarter percentage growth per year:
2013 0.2%
2014 2.8%
2015 2.1%
2016 1.9%
2017 2.6%
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/grossdomesticproductgdp/bulletins/businessinvestment/januarytomarch2018provisionalresults#how-has-business-investment-performed-over-a-longer-period
Or if we want to look at the growth in gross fixed capital formation:
2013 4.3%
2014 3.9%
2015 1.2%
2016 4.5%
2017 4.0%
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/grossdomesticproductgdp/bulletins/businessinvestment/januarytomarch2018provisionalresults#how-has-gfcf-performed-over-a-longer-period
So far there has been no meaningful change in either business investment or gross fixed capital formation.0 -
It was the direction of travel I most did not like, and the reality of them, even as aspects of the dream were positive indeed.SeanT said:
I can be enthusiastically positive about "aspects" of the EU. Horizon. Erasmus. Galileo. The bloody railcard for kids. All good, all good. MORE PLEASE.JosiasJessop said:
I did try to say something positive about the EU on a couple of occasions. True, it was a small area, and one that could be argued to be inconsequential, but an area where the EU has been a positive. All I got in response were (to use your wording) 'deluded' leavers telling me that I was lying, that I was wrong, etc, etc. Despite my giving lots of links and supporting information.tlg86 said:A message for deluded remainers. You lost because when it came to it, you had nothing positive to say about the EU.
Not because of Russia.
(Snip)
They did not argue the information, and they did not argue the consequences of that information. They could not countenance that there might even be a small area where the EU has been a positive. One poster who had been arguing with me eventually admitted he'd not even looked at the supporting information.
Now, IMO the correct response would have been something like: "Okay, I'll give you that. The EU isn't totally bad. But if you weigh it up against all the negatives, it's still bad."
But not one of the 'deluded' leavers on here could do that. If you didn't hear anything positive about the EU, might it be because you are incapable of hearing anything positive about it?
But these are things which a friendly trading bloc with a very vague political/judicial architecture could do with no problem. The trouble is the EU is intent on becoming an actual, Federal superstate and superpower, with its own currency, parliament, capital, supreme court, civil service, legal system, army, navy, FBI, constitution, and all of it beyond the understanding of ordinary citizens because it is done in a foreign country in foreign languages (especially a special kind of weird French-tinged English known only to eurocrats: I do not joke)
If the EU was just free trade, scientific co-operation, Swedes and Geordie kids seeing Athens, and a neat satellite system, who could object? But it isn;t just that. It is very very far from that, and gets further away by the day, creating the crises of democracy we see - right now - in Britain, Italy, Greece, Hungary, Slovakia, and possibly Spain and Austria.
And the NF came second in France.
The EU is slowly burning from within, yet the damage is invisible. Like one of the coal fires that burn underground in eastern America, unnoticed, until entire towns suddenly disappear.0 -
Interesting that the Sky News paper review is questioning the significance of The Times story.0
-
How can it be an ambush when we all know it is coming? The question comes in how will (or can) May respond, not that the suggestion would not come.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Indeed.tlg86 said:
I'm not sure this sort of thing is good news or not. SAB Miller had a place in Woking which I think was going to close because of that takeover - though I can't find out if it actually did.another_richard said:
It seems that the big FDI in 2016 is because this company (plus a few others) was bought:tlg86 said:
Can you please stop bringing facts into this?another_richard said:
I'm interested in knowing more about the FDI change.
The ONS suggests that it might be nothing more than a return to the norm:
' In 2016, there were a few very high-value inward mergers and acquisitions that completed in that year, which led to the value of FDI inflows reaching £199.4 billion – this was a record high and more than five-times greater than the value recorded in 2015. While this is the highest annual value of inward FDI flows, the 2016 inward value is comparable with outward FDI flows in 2007 and 2008, and 1999 and 2000. Some of the large publicly-reported mergers and acquisitions (M&A) transactions in 2016 included the acquisitions of SABMiller (PDF, 225KB), ARM Holdings and BG Group. '
It gives these as the foreign direct investment inflows of recent years:
2010 £42bn
2011 £17bn
2012 £30bn
2013 £36bn
2014 £37bn
2015 £30bn
2016 £199bn
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpayments/articles/ukforeigndirectinvestmenttrendsandanalysis/january2018
' SABMiller plc was a multinational brewing and beverage company headquartered in Woking, England on the outskirts of London until 10 October 2016 when it was acquired by Anheuser-Busch InBev. Prior to that date, it was the world's second-largest brewer measured by revenues (after Anheuser-Busch InBev) and was also a major bottler of Coca-Cola.[2][3] Its brands included Fosters, Miller, and Pilsner Urquell.[2] It operated in 80 countries worldwide and in 2009 sold around 21 billion litres of beverages.[2] Since 10 October 2016, SABMiller has been a business division of Anheuser-Busch InBev SA/NV, a Brazilian-Belgian corporation with headquarters in Leuven. '
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SABMiller
I notice that the purchase happened after the Referendum so surely that counts as FDI resulting from Leave winning
We want FDI of the Nissan in Sunderland variety which creates jobs, wealth and exports.
Unfortunately we often get FDI of the Cadburys variety which destroys jobs, wealth and exports.0 -
As crappy as May has proven, their constant prickly behaviour, leaking and threats to quit without doing so does not make me inclined to think any of them have much will, leadership ability or integrity.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
To Polruan
I should have added he also does not worry about customs. They have a computer system that produces all the docs, electronically and paper for what ever country they sell to. All the rules of origin for the machines are in there and it really is chose country click select, job done.0 -
If the law makers get their way on making islamophobia a crime sean,these sort of post will get you in trouble or the site.SeanT said:
The quotes revealed are all perfectly acceptable, if not boldly correct.TheScreamingEagles said:
Khan, the mayor, should be expelled. He is tainted with Islamism and is a total failure on crime, housing etc
The real threat to our country IS Islam, I don't walk around worried about Poles, Corbynites or Africans blowing me up, or raping my white working class underage female kinfolk in huge whitewashed conspiracies.
Anything else?
Fuck Islam. Polls say almost 50% of Europeans think Islam is incompatible with European values. I agree with them. I'm one of the 48%. Unless it swiftly reforms, Islam must depart these shores. I want it gone. It must be slowly squeezed out with bans on burqas, imams, mosques, halal, the works, as is now happening across Europe from Austria to Denmark to Switzerland.
Let them all bugger off back to Saudi. Every Single One.
This is the next step.0 -
If my money was at stake I would say that my own partial view of May is probably not a good basis for decision making. I do expect that there will be a deal in place on goods and as I say I can't see that there is enough time for any divergence on standards and regulation by that point. As others have said Brexit is a journey and it will take time before any major differences are seen and when they do come our relationship with other countries will have been taken into account. Such changes will probably be more obvious in the home market rather than in the export market.Polruan said:
Thanks for taking the time to comment. I agree with you on effective reg alignment on goods and the issues on services (though services are less relevant to the client base I advise). Given that May is currently running the show what do you actually expect in practice - will our desire to enforce independent standards and the EU carrying out third-country border checks create big delays on imports and exports? If it was your money at stake would you be establishing operations in another EU country in case the Channel Tunnel is bricked up, for example?
The caveat to this is that it is my opinion. Whilst I have a small business that does export goods and so am aware of differing standards around the world I am certainly not an expert in the background to regulations.0 -
Thanks for the comments. I realise my example is pretty artificial, I guess the point is that there are plenty of businesses that rely on a material amount of EU imports and can’t afford to have their EU sales disrupted - 60% is a made up number but illustrates the idea.ralphmalph said:To polruan
This is a very hard question to answer because you have defined a narrow company i.e a company that imports 60% from the EU and the sales are 60% EU.
I have said on here that my brother is a joint owner of a company that designs and manufactures production machines (i.e machines that are used in manufacturing lines) here in the UK. It would be classified as large on the small scale, small on the medium scale. But they sell to the worlds multinationals.
First off they do not buy more than 20% from the EU ex UK. They know all of the UK suppliers and they all talk together, my father was in manufacturing and my brother deals with the sons and daughters of the fathers and mothers my Dad dealt with. People deal with people they like.
Second point is before the GFC my brothers business was 80% EU including UK and 20% RoW. Now it is 80% RoW and 20% EU plus UK (The EU bit is now very small with UK removed). They had to make this switch to survive Continental EU was a disaster zone post 2008 and they put in a lot of effort to achieve this.
He does not care about EU product standards, the product standards almost always orginate from a global source, the EU rubber stamps them For example in the car industry for a global model, they make three base versions - US, RoW LHD and RoW RHD. There is no specific EU model. This is to the EU's credit. So he makes machines to the global standards.
But what the EU does do is now it makes non product standards, i.e health and safety, social working time directives, environmental, etc.
He is currently moaning vocally about a proposed EU law that means for health and safety reasons he must have an employee in the the EU country a machine is installed in. They have invested heavily in internet access and control of the machine to reduce costs for the customer. the proposed EU ruling means this would be a wasted investment.
PS The whole factory workforce voted out. Just like all the manufacturing regions. They did this for the reasons above.
Picking up your “non-product standards” point - do you think the trading arrangements as a third country will actually be more favourable? Or will the additional export costs exceed the costs of complying with the standards? (For now ignoring that one might prefer to live in a country with higher environmental standards and workers’ rights anyway).0 -
0
-
What does he propose to do about it? If he and others remain with May up to whatever deal she tries to present and then they oust, their motivations not to actually try to get a deal, better or otherwise, but to advance their positions will be plain as day.williamglenn said:0 -
I hope for a islam reformation but i look at my city and think we are heading for a belfast type divided city living apart from one another.SeanT said:
I don't care any more. Particularly as the mood in Europe has so violently switched. The Austrians are now simply closing mosques.Tykejohnno said:
If the law makers get their way on making islamophobia a crime sean,these sort of post will get you in trouble or the site.SeanT said:
The quotes revealed are all perfectly acceptable, if not boldly correct.TheScreamingEagles said:
Khan, the mayor, should be expelled. He is tainted with Islamism and is a total failure on crime, housing etc
The real threat to our country IS Islam, I don't walk around worried about Poles, Corbynites or Africans blowing me up, or raping my white working class underage female kinfolk in huge whitewashed conspiracies.
Anything else?
Fuck Islam. Polls say almost 50% of Europeans think Islam is incompatible with European values. I agree with them. I'm one of the 48%. Unless it swiftly reforms, Islam must depart these shores. I want it gone. It must be slowly squeezed out with bans on burqas, imams, mosques, halal, the works, as is now happening across Europe from Austria to Denmark to Switzerland.
Let them all bugger off back to Saudi. Every Single One.
This is the next step.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/austria-mosque-closures-inmams-deportation-political-islam-freedom-party-a8389771.html
The mood has dramatically altered. Islam must be quarantined within Europe, and, if necessary (I hope not) completely expelled.
It has one last chance to reform. Otherwise, get rid.
This won't help us coming together and I fear for our future.0 -
More fighting in the crowd than in the ring at the Tyson Fury fight.0
-
I find your views unacceptable; they are similar to those promoted in Germany 1933-45. I presume that you feel the same way about Judaism, given that it has many similarities with Islam.SeanT said:
The quotes revealed are all perfectly acceptable, if not boldly correct.TheScreamingEagles said:
Khan, the mayor, should be expelled. He is tainted with Islamism and is a total failure on crime, housing etc
The real threat to our country IS Islam, I don't walk around worried about Poles, Corbynites or Africans blowing me up, or raping my white working class underage female kinfolk in huge whitewashed conspiracies.
Anything else?
Fuck Islam. Polls say almost 50% of Europeans think Islam is incompatible with European values. I agree with them. I'm one of the 48%. Unless it swiftly reforms, Islam must depart these shores. I want it gone. It must be slowly squeezed out with bans on burqas, imams, mosques, halal, the works, as is now happening across Europe from Austria to Denmark to Switzerland.
Let them all bugger off back to Saudi. Every Single One.0 -
to Polruan,
People have to understand what trading as a third country means and very few do, inculding the whole Government and most experts. Third country status means you can not use the local regulatory authority to approve the product as EU compliant and get the paperwork. You have to submit the product to a regulatory authority in an EU country to do this. Same cost no more hassles than now. But this approval must be submitted by a business in an EU country. So if we left my brothers business would need to setup a subsidiary in an EU country (no staff required) and use that to get approval. When gained the order process would be end customer to new EU subsidiary, order from EU sub to UK HQ. Shipment direct from UK HQ to end user, with click of button on computer for docs.
So trading as a third country after initial setup, no difference. But does provide for tax optimisation strategies.
With respect to workers rights after GFC the UK manufacturing sector is desperate to keep skilled people. Skilled people, semi skilled people that work hard have a job for life at my brothers business and in the next recession they will run the company at a loss to keep them. They are gold dust.0 -
Interesting. I guess that does assume no barriers to shipping from third country parent into EU (for example inspections to check goods delivered comfor, to approval granted would be an issue; any applicable tariffs would be imposed if the goods were shipped from third country parent rather than EU sub).ralphmalph said:to Polruan,
People have to understand what trading as a third country means and very few do, inculding the whole Government and most experts. Third country status means you can not use the local regulatory authority to approve the product as EU compliant and get the paperwork. You have to submit the product to a regulatory authority in an EU country to do this. Same cost no more hassles than now. But this approval must be submitted by a business in an EU country. So if we left my brothers business would need to setup a subsidiary in an EU country (no staff required) and use that to get approval. When gained the order process would be end customer to new EU subsidiary, order from EU sub to UK HQ. Shipment direct from UK HQ to end user, with click of button on computer for docs.
So trading as a third country after initial setup, no difference. But does provide for tax optimisation strategies.
With respect to workers rights after GFC the UK manufacturing sector is desperate to keep skilled people. Skilled people, semi skilled people that work hard have a job for life at my brothers business and in the next recession they will run the company at a loss to keep them. They are gold dust.0 -
https://twitter.com/agirlcalledlina/status/1005483516514234368?s=19SeanT said:
I don't care any more. Particularly as the mood in Europe has so violently switched. The Austrians are now simply closing mosques.Tykejohnno said:
If the law makers get their way on making islamophobia a crime sean,these sort of post will get you in trouble or the site.SeanT said:
The quotes revealed are all perfectly acceptable, if not boldly correct.TheScreamingEagles said:
Khan, the mayor, should be expelled. He is tainted with Islamism and is a total failure on crime, housing etc
The real threat to our country IS Islam, I don't walk around worried about Poles, Corbynites or Africans blowing me up, or raping my white working class underage female kinfolk in huge whitewashed conspiracies.
Anything else?
Fuck Islam. Polls say almost 50% of Europeans think Islam is incompatible with European values. I agree with them. I'm one of the 48%. Unless it swiftly reforms, Islam must depart these shores. I want it gone. It must be slowly squeezed out with bans on burqas, imams, mosques, halal, the works, as is now happening across Europe from Austria to Denmark to Switzerland.
Let them all bugger off back to Saudi. Every Single One.
This is the next step.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/austria-mosque-closures-inmams-deportation-political-islam-freedom-party-a8389771.html
The mood has dramatically altered. Islam must be quarantined within Europe, and, if necessary (I hope not) completely expelled.
It has one last chance to reform. Otherwise, get rid.0 -
Yup. The similarities are frightening. SeanT seems to be turning into an actual Nazi. Replace Islam with Judaism in his posts and translate them into German, and they could have come straight from the 3rd Reich.daodao said:
I find your views unacceptable; they are similar to those promoted in Germany 1933-45. I presume that you feel the same way about Judaism, given that it has many similarities with Islam.SeanT said:
The quotes revealed are all perfectly acceptable, if not boldly correct.TheScreamingEagles said:
Khan, the mayor, should be expelled. He is tainted with Islamism and is a total failure on crime, housing etc
The real threat to our country IS Islam, I don't walk around worried about Poles, Corbynites or Africans blowing me up, or raping my white working class underage female kinfolk in huge whitewashed conspiracies.
Anything else?
Fuck Islam. Polls say almost 50% of Europeans think Islam is incompatible with European values. I agree with them. I'm one of the 48%. Unless it swiftly reforms, Islam must depart these shores. I want it gone. It must be slowly squeezed out with bans on burqas, imams, mosques, halal, the works, as is now happening across Europe from Austria to Denmark to Switzerland.
Let them all bugger off back to Saudi. Every Single One.0 -
Indeed. You tell them what clearance you have, what info you need to look at and what for, you make an appointment, you go there, they take you to an ordinary room with no windows, they take your phone off you, you do your work, you leave. If you're a researcher or an archivist this is pretty much day-to-day stuff.Scott_P said:https://twitter.com/michaelsavage/status/1005557794777587712
Actually not as mad as it sounds. All Government departments have such facilities already0 -
We the UK physically check 3% of non EU exports, Ireland checks 1%, for non food goods, it is not an issue. For the main machine for a new install it will be shipped days/weeks before commissioning. They could be an issue when the internet monitors have diagnosed a machine developing a problem with a part that is in the process of failing and they want to get it there next day so the engineer on the plane can replace it.Polruan said:
Interesting. I guess that does assume no barriers to shipping from third country parent into EU (for example inspections to check goods delivered comfor, to approval granted would be an issue; any applicable tariffs would be imposed if the goods were shipped from third country parent rather than EU sub).ralphmalph said:to Polruan,
People have to understand what trading as a third country means and very few do, inculding the whole Government and most experts. Third country status means you can not use the local regulatory authority to approve the product as EU compliant and get the paperwork. You have to submit the product to a regulatory authority in an EU country to do this. Same cost no more hassles than now. But this approval must be submitted by a business in an EU country. So if we left my brothers business would need to setup a subsidiary in an EU country (no staff required) and use that to get approval. When gained the order process would be end customer to new EU subsidiary, order from EU sub to UK HQ. Shipment direct from UK HQ to end user, with click of button on computer for docs.
So trading as a third country after initial setup, no difference. But does provide for tax optimisation strategies.
With respect to workers rights after GFC the UK manufacturing sector is desperate to keep skilled people. Skilled people, semi skilled people that work hard have a job for life at my brothers business and in the next recession they will run the company at a loss to keep them. They are gold dust.
The EU tariffs for machines are very low, they are not material when you compare German, French or Italian labour costs to ours. Plus the fact my brothers business is know as the best, even the Germans are second best to him.0 -
0
-
Roger's sophisticated France.SeanT said:
Try having a Gay Pride march in parts of northern cities, or the banlieues of Paris, or half of Malmo. Try just being a woman and having a drink in suburbs of LyonFoxy said:
https://twitter.com/agirlcalledlina/status/1005483516514234368?s=19SeanT said:
I don't care any more. Particularly as the mood in Europe has so violently switched. The Austrians are now simply closing mosques.Tykejohnno said:
If the law makers get their way on making islamophobia a crime sean,these sort of post will get you in trouble or the site.SeanT said:
The quotes revealed are all perfectly acceptable, if not boldly correct.TheScreamingEagles said:
Khan, the mayor, should be expelled. He is tainted with Islamism and is a total failure on crime, housing etc
The real threat to our country IS Islam, I don't walk around worried about Poles, Corbynites or Africans blowing me up, or raping my white working class underage female kinfolk in huge whitewashed conspiracies.
Anything else?
Fuck Islam. Polls say almost 50% of Europeans think Islam is incompatible with European values. I agree with them. I'm one of the 48%. Unless it swiftly reforms, Islam must depart these shores. I want it gone. It must be slowly squeezed out with bans on burqas, imams, mosques, halal, the works, as is now happening across Europe from Austria to Denmark to Switzerland.
Let them all bugger off back to Saudi. Every Single One.
This is the next step.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/austria-mosque-closures-inmams-deportation-political-islam-freedom-party-a8389771.html
The mood has dramatically altered. Islam must be quarantined within Europe, and, if necessary (I hope not) completely expelled.
It has one last chance to reform. Otherwise, get rid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gZFGpNdH1A
God, the myopic stupidity of these fucking bedwetting liberals. Even as their multicultural edifice crumbles in front of their eyes, they carry on BELIEVING
There's a certain irony that he has linked to a program about Germaine Greer.0 -
More "Reds Under The Bed" headlines in the Sunday's I see?
0 -
Yeah, I remember voting LEAVE because I was zapped by the Kremlin's evil mind-control ray.Scott_P said:https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1005562281189572608
Leave voters. Putin's useful idiots... 0 -
There's untrustworthiness, and then there's treason.AlastairMeeks said:Isabel Oakeshott is maintaining her reputation as Britain's least trustworthy journalist I see. Given how she treats her friends I’d rather be her enemy.
Will you amend your position if Arron Banks evades a House of Commons arrest warrant by running to Moscow?0 -
We have now reached the stage where French women, in France, feel the need to change how they dress in order to avoid harassment from Muslim men.SeanT said:
Try having a Gay Pride march in parts of northern cities, or the banlieues of Paris, or half of Malmo. Try just being a woman and having a drink in suburbs of LyonFoxy said:
https://twitter.com/agirlcalledlina/status/1005483516514234368?s=19SeanT said:
I don't care any more. Particularly as the mood in Europe has so violently switched. The Austrians are now simply closing mosques.Tykejohnno said:
If the law makers get their way on making islamophobia a crime sean,these sort of post will get you in trouble or the site.SeanT said:
The quotes revealed are all perfectly acceptable, if not boldly correct.TheScreamingEagles said:
Khan, the mayor, should be expelled. He is tainted with Islamism and is a total failure on crime, housing etc
The real threat to our country IS Islam, I don't walk around worried about Poles, Corbynites or Africans blowing me up, or raping my white working class underage female kinfolk in huge whitewashed conspiracies.
Anything else?
Fuck Islam. Polls say almost 50% of Europeans think Islam is incompatible with European values. I agree with them. I'm one of the 48%. Unless it swiftly reforms, Islam must depart these shores. I want it gone. It must be slowly squeezed out with bans on burqas, imams, mosques, halal, the works, as is now happening across Europe from Austria to Denmark to Switzerland.
Let them all bugger off back to Saudi. Every Single One.
This is the next step.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/austria-mosque-closures-inmams-deportation-political-islam-freedom-party-a8389771.html
The mood has dramatically altered. Islam must be quarantined within Europe, and, if necessary (I hope not) completely expelled.
It has one last chance to reform. Otherwise, get rid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gZFGpNdH1A
God, the myopic stupidity of these fucking bedwetting liberals. Even as their multicultural edifice crumbles in front of their eyes, they carry on BELIEVING
God help Europe.0 -
Legislatures don’t issue arrest warrants in countries with the rule of law.Purple said:
There's untrustworthiness, and then there's treason.AlastairMeeks said:Isabel Oakeshott is maintaining her reputation as Britain's least trustworthy journalist I see. Given how she treats her friends I’d rather be her enemy.
Will you amend your position if Arron Banks evades a House of Commons arrest warrant by running to Moscow?
If the House of Commons does so to Dominic Cummings, they deserve nothing but our contempt, and his defiance.0 -
It's really sad about Germaine Greer. She has a good mind and over several decades she has spoken a great amount of sense, including about the emotional differences between men and women, rape, and abortion. I don't think she was ever "politically correct". Then very recently she came out with the most awful rubbish about rape. No decent person could possibly agree with what she said about a fitting sentence for rape being "200 hours' community service". She's 79. She's losing it. I hope she gets it back again.another_richard said:
Roger's sophisticated France.SeanT said:
Try having a Gay Pride march in parts of northern cities, or the banlieues of Paris, or half of Malmo. Try just being a woman and having a drink in suburbs of LyonFoxy said:
https://twitter.com/agirlcalledlina/status/1005483516514234368?s=19SeanT said:
I don't care any more. Particularly as the mood in Europe has so violently switched. The Austrians are now simply closing mosques.Tykejohnno said:
If the law makers get their way on making islamophobia a crime sean,these sort of post will get you in trouble or the site.SeanT said:
The quotes revealed are all perfectly acceptable, if not boldly correct.TheScreamingEagles said:
Khan, the mayor, should be expelled. He is tainted with Islamism and is a total failure on crime, housing etc
The real threat to our country IS Islam, I don't walk around worried about Poles, Corbynites or Africans blowing me up, or raping my white working class underage female kinfolk in huge whitewashed conspiracies.
Anything else?
Fuck Islam. Polls say almost 50% of Europeans think Islam is incompatible with European values. I agree with them. I'm one of the 48%. Unless it swiftly reforms, Islam must depart these shores. I want it gone. It must be slowly squeezed out with bans on burqas, imams, mosques, halal, the works, as is now happening across Europe from Austria to Denmark to Switzerland.
Let them all bugger off back to Saudi. Every Single One.
This is the next step.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/austria-mosque-closures-inmams-deportation-political-islam-freedom-party-a8389771.html
The mood has dramatically altered. Islam must be quarantined within Europe, and, if necessary (I hope not) completely expelled.
It has one last chance to reform. Otherwise, get rid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gZFGpNdH1A
God, the myopic stupidity of these fucking bedwetting liberals. Even as their multicultural edifice crumbles in front of their eyes, they carry on BELIEVING
There's a certain irony that he has linked to a program about Germaine Greer.0 -
Actually there are plenty of LBGT pride events this month in Northern cities. Such as this one in Rotherham.SeanT said:
Try having a Gay Pride march in parts of northern cities, or the banlieues of Paris, or half of Malmo. Try just being a woman and having a drink in suburbs of LyonFoxy said:
https://twitter.com/agirlcalledlina/status/1005483516514234368?s=19SeanT said:
I don't care any more. Particularly as the mood in Europe has so violently switched. The Austrians are now simply closing mosques.Tykejohnno said:
If the law makers get their way on making islamophobia a crime sean,these sort of post will get you in trouble or the site.SeanT said:
The quotes revealed are all perfectly acceptable, if not boldly correct.TheScreamingEagles said:
Khan, the mayor, should be expelled. He is tainted with Islamism and is a total failure on crime, housing etc
The real threat to our country IS Islam, I don't walk around worried about Poles, Corbynites or Africans blowing me up, or raping my white working class underage female kinfolk in huge whitewashed conspiracies.
Anything else?
Fuck Islam. Polls say almost 50% of Europeans think Islam is incompatible with European values. I agree with them. I'm one of the 48%. Unless it swiftly reforms, Islam must depart these shores. I want it gone. It must be slowly squeezed out with bans on burqas, imams, mosques, halal, the works, as is now happening across Europe from Austria to Denmark to Switzerland.
Let them all bugger off back to Saudi. Every Single One.
This is the next step.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/austria-mosque-closures-inmams-deportation-political-islam-freedom-party-a8389771.html
The mood has dramatically altered. Islam must be quarantined within Europe, and, if necessary (I hope not) completely expelled.
It has one last chance to reform. Otherwise, get rid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gZFGpNdH1A
God, the myopic stupidity of these fucking bedwetting liberals. Even as their multicultural edifice crumbles in front of their eyes, they carry on BELIEVING
https://pinkuk.com/events/rotherham-pride-2018
Perhaps you should attend. You might learn something.0 -
I wonder which parts of town they’ll march through? Probably not those where a majority of the population think they should be illegal at best, or executed at worst.Foxy said:
Actually there are plenty of LBGT pride events this month in Northern cities. Such as this one in Rotherham.SeanT said:
Try having a Gay Pride march in parts of northern cities, or the banlieues of Paris, or half of Malmo. Try just being a woman and having a drink in suburbs of LyonFoxy said:
https://twitter.com/agirlcalledlina/status/1005483516514234368?s=19SeanT said:
I don't care any more. Particularly as the mood in Europe has so violently switched. The Austrians are now simply closing mosques.Tykejohnno said:
If the law makers get their way on making islamophobia a crime sean,these sort of post will get you in trouble or the site.SeanT said:
The quotes revealed are all perfectly acceptable, if not boldly correct.TheScreamingEagles said:
Khan, the mayor, should be expelled. He is tainted with Islamism and is a total failure on crime, housing etc
The real threat to our country IS Islam, I don't walk around worried about Poles, Corbynites or Africans blowing me up, or raping my white working class underage female kinfolk in huge whitewashed conspiracies.
Anything else?
Fuck Islam. Polls say almost 50% of Europeans think Islam is incompatible with European values. I agree with them. I'm one of the 48%. Unless it swiftly reforms, Islam must depart these shores. I want it gone. It must be slowly squeezed out with bans on burqas, imams, mosques, halal, the works, as is now happening across Europe from Austria to Denmark to Switzerland.
Let them all bugger off back to Saudi. Every Single One.
This is the next step.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/austria-mosque-closures-inmams-deportation-political-islam-freedom-party-a8389771.html
The mood has dramatically altered. Islam must be quarantined within Europe, and, if necessary (I hope not) completely expelled.
It has one last chance to reform. Otherwise, get rid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gZFGpNdH1A
God, the myopic stupidity of these fucking bedwetting liberals. Even as their multicultural edifice crumbles in front of their eyes, they carry on BELIEVING
https://pinkuk.com/events/rotherham-pride-2018
Perhaps you should attend. You might learn something.
0 -
I guess it is okay because this time they are actually bad people...SeanT said:
Yeah, the position of Jews in pre-Hitler Germany - productive, patriotic, super-industrious, highly assimilated, not given to raping underage German girls, not known for mutilating their own girls, not known for honour killings, trying to kill German troops, or blowing up Germans (and French and Brits) in massive suicide attacks - was almost IDENTICAL to the position of Muslims in western Europe now.FeersumEnjineeya said:
Yup. The similarities are frightening. SeanT seems to be turning into an actual Nazi. Replace Islam with Judaism in his posts and translate them into German, and they could have come straight from the 3rd Reich.daodao said:
I find your views unacceptable; they are similar to those promoted in Germany 1933-45. I presume that you feel the same way about Judaism, given that it has many similarities with Islam.SeanT said:
The quotes revealed are all perfectly acceptable, if not boldly correct.TheScreamingEagles said:
Khan, the mayor, should be expelled. He is tainted with Islamism and is a total failure on crime, housing etc
The real threat to our country IS Islam, I don't walk around worried about Poles, Corbynites or Africans blowing me up, or raping my white working class underage female kinfolk in huge whitewashed conspiracies.
Anything else?
Fuck Islam. Polls say almost 50% of Europeans think Islam is incompatible with European values. I agree with them. I'm one of the 48%. Unless it swiftly reforms, Islam must depart these shores. I want it gone. It must be slowly squeezed out with bans on burqas, imams, mosques, halal, the works, as is now happening across Europe from Austria to Denmark to Switzerland.
Let them all bugger off back to Saudi. Every Single One.
I can see how you perceive a chilling echo, you fucking dolt.0 -
Um, I'm not sure that's true. Parliament[1] is not just a legislature it's also (archaically?) a court and can compel people to attend and detain them if it wishes. Happy to be corrected on this if wrong, but I think it's one of those things that everybody thinks is medaeval but actually isn't.RoyalBlue said:Legislatures don’t issue arrest warrants in countries with the rule of law.
[1] I can't remember if it's the Parliament collectively, each of the House of Commons and House of Lords individually, or correctly constituted bodies within it.0 -
oh good sean t is back wake me up when hes fucked off again0
-
70 000 attended Birmingham pride in a parade around the City centre the other weekend. Quite an unremarkeable event in modern Britain, hence no longer news apart from those partygoers.RoyalBlue said:
I wonder which parts of town they’ll march through? Probably not those where a majority of the population think they should be illegal at best, or executed at worst.Foxy said:
Actually there are plenty of LBGT pride events this month in Northern cities. Such as this one in Rotherham.SeanT said:
Try having a Gay Pride march in parts of northern cities, or the banlieues of Paris, or half of Malmo. Try just being a woman and having a drink in suburbs of LyonFoxy said:
https://twitter.com/agirlcalledlina/status/1005483516514234368?s=19SeanT said:
I don't care any more. Particularly as the mood in Europe has so violently switched. The Austrians are now simply closing mosques.Tykejohnno said:
If the law makers get their way on making islamophobia a crime sean,these sort of post will get you in trouble or the site.SeanT said:
The quotes revealed are all perfectly acceptable, if not boldly correct.TheScreamingEagles said:
Khan, the mayor, should be expelled. He is tainted with Islamism and is a total failure on crime, housing etc
The real threat to our country IS Islam, I don't walk around worried about Poles, Corbynites or Africans blowing me up, or raping my white working class underage female kinfolk in huge whitewashed conspiracies.
Anything else?
Fuck Islam. Polls say almost 50% of Europeans think Islam is incompatible with European values. I agree with them. I'm one of the 48%. Unless it swiftly reforms, Islam must depart these shores. I want it gone. It must be slowly squeezed out with bans on burqas, imams, mosques, halal, the works, as is now happening across Europe from Austria to Denmark to Switzerland.
Let them all bugger off back to Saudi. Every Single One.
This is the next step.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/austria-mosque-closures-inmams-deportation-political-islam-freedom-party-a8389771.html
The mood has dramatically altered. Islam must be quarantined within Europe, and, if necessary (I hope not) completely expelled.
It has one last chance to reform. Otherwise, get rid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gZFGpNdH1A
God, the myopic stupidity of these fucking bedwetting liberals. Even as their multicultural edifice crumbles in front of their eyes, they carry on BELIEVING
https://pinkuk.com/events/rotherham-pride-2018
Perhaps you should attend. You might learn something.
0 -
Calling them Muslim men, whilst they are Muslim men, doesn't specify the issue, though. At 1:36 that looks like a wine bottle. That bar sells alcohol. In Muslim Tunisia the hijab was banned in public until a few years ago. Nobody had much of a problem with the ban. I know a number of Muslim Tunisian women who envisage wearing it in private when they get older and who would like the ban on wearing it in public brought back. People have called themselves all sorts of names - adherents of this or that religion or nationality or race - to justify crapping on their targets, in this case on women. Totally agreed something has got to be done.RoyalBlue said:
We have now reached the stage where French women, in France, feel the need to change how they dress in order to avoid harassment from Muslim men.SeanT said:
(snip)
Try having a Gay Pride march in parts of northern cities, or the banlieues of Paris, or half of Malmo. Try just being a woman and having a drink in suburbs of Lyon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gZFGpNdH1A
God, the myopic stupidity of these fucking bedwetting liberals. Even as their multicultural edifice crumbles in front of their eyes, they carry on BELIEVING
God help Europe.0 -
Yes and no. In theory Parliament does have the power to compel people to attend, and Select Committees often sound quite fearsome on the subject. In practice a penalty for refusing has not been attempted to be levied for a very long time, and there are apparently doubts whether the law would be considered as still valid. Apparently - there are m'learned friends here who will be more authoritative on this - if a law falls into disuse for long enough, it is regarded as no longer valid.viewcode said:
Um, I'm not sure that's true. Parliament[1] is not just a legislature it's also (archaically?) a court and can compel people to attend and detain them if it wishes. Happy to be corrected on this if wrong, but I think it's one of those things that everybody thinks is medaeval but actually isn't.RoyalBlue said:Legislatures don’t issue arrest warrants in countries with the rule of law.
[1] I can't remember if it's the Parliament collectively, each of the House of Commons and House of Lords individually, or correctly constituted bodies within it.0 -
Contempt of Parliament - including refusing to give evidence or giving false evidence - is rightly a crime punishable by fine or imprisonment. This exists in most Parliamentary systems around the world. It was reaffirmed in the British Parliament in 2013.RoyalBlue said:
Legislatures don’t issue arrest warrants in countries with the rule of law.Purple said:
There's untrustworthiness, and then there's treason.AlastairMeeks said:Isabel Oakeshott is maintaining her reputation as Britain's least trustworthy journalist I see. Given how she treats her friends I’d rather be her enemy.
Will you amend your position if Arron Banks evades a House of Commons arrest warrant by running to Moscow?
If the House of Commons does so to Dominic Cummings, they deserve nothing but our contempt, and his defiance.0 -
There was a study done on this by the Joint Committee on Parliamentary Privilege in 2013 and they concluded the law still stood and should not be changed.NickPalmer said:
Yes and no. In theory Parliament does have the power to compel people to attend, and Select Committees often sound quite fearsome on the subject. In practice a penalty for refusing has not been attempted to be levied for a very long time, and there are apparently doubts whether the law would be considered as still valid. Apparently - there are m'learned friends here who will be more authoritative on this - if a law falls into disuse for long enough, it is regarded as no longer valid.viewcode said:
Um, I'm not sure that's true. Parliament[1] is not just a legislature it's also (archaically?) a court and can compel people to attend and detain them if it wishes. Happy to be corrected on this if wrong, but I think it's one of those things that everybody thinks is medaeval but actually isn't.RoyalBlue said:Legislatures don’t issue arrest warrants in countries with the rule of law.
[1] I can't remember if it's the Parliament collectively, each of the House of Commons and House of Lords individually, or correctly constituted bodies within it.0 -
Parliament should not be a court. It is the job of the legislature to make law, not interpret or enforce it.Richard_Tyndall said:
Contempt of Parliament - including refusing to give evidence or giving false evidence - is rightly a crime punishable by fine or imprisonment. This exists in most Parliamentary systems around the world. It was reaffirmed in the British Parliament in 2013.RoyalBlue said:
Legislatures don’t issue arrest warrants in countries with the rule of law.Purple said:
There's untrustworthiness, and then there's treason.AlastairMeeks said:Isabel Oakeshott is maintaining her reputation as Britain's least trustworthy journalist I see. Given how she treats her friends I’d rather be her enemy.
Will you amend your position if Arron Banks evades a House of Commons arrest warrant by running to Moscow?
If the House of Commons does so to Dominic Cummings, they deserve nothing but our contempt, and his defiance.
I’m surprised that someone who claims to be a libertarian is happy to grant almost arbitrary powers to our legislators over private citizens.
0 -
Why? Because of your self-contradictory definition of a phrase? Legislatures make the law.RoyalBlue said:
Legislatures don’t issue arrest warrants in countries with the rule of law.Purple said:
There's untrustworthiness, and then there's treason.AlastairMeeks said:Isabel Oakeshott is maintaining her reputation as Britain's least trustworthy journalist I see. Given how she treats her friends I’d rather be her enemy.
Will you amend your position if Arron Banks evades a House of Commons arrest warrant by running to Moscow?
If the House of Commons does so to Dominic Cummings, they deserve nothing but our contempt, and his defiance.
Cummings does appear to have snow on his boots, and I wouldn't bet on a rosy future in the cabinet for Michael Gove either, who took Cummings's advice for six years.0 -
Right through the city centreRoyalBlue said:
I wonder which parts of town they’ll march through? Probably not those where a majority of the population think they should be illegal at best, or executed at worst.Foxy said:
Actually there are plenty of LBGT pride events this month in Northern cities. Such as this one in Rotherham.SeanT said:
Try having a Gay Pride march in parts of northern cities, or the banlieues of Paris, or half of Malmo. Try just being a woman and having a drink in suburbs of LyonFoxy said:
https://twitter.com/agirlcalledlina/status/1005483516514234368?s=19SeanT said:
I don't care any more. Particularly as the mood in Europe has so violently switched. The Austrians are now simply closing mosques.Tykejohnno said:
If the law makers get their way on making islamophobia a crime sean,these sort of post will get you in trouble or the site.SeanT said:
The quotes revealed are all perfectly acceptable, if not boldly correct.TheScreamingEagles said:
Khan, the mayor, should be expelled. He is tainted with Islamism and is a total failure on crime, housing etc
The real threat to our country IS Islam, I don't walk around worried about Poles, Corbynites or Africans blowing me up, or raping my white working class underage female kinfolk in huge whitewashed conspiracies.
Anything else?
Fuck Islam. Polls say almost 50% of Europeans think Islam is incompatible with European values. I agree with them. I'm one of the 48%. Unless it swiftly reforms, Islam must depart these shores. I want it gone. It must be slowly squeezed out with bans on burqas, imams, mosques, halal, the works, as is now happening across Europe from Austria to Denmark to Switzerland.
Let them all bugger off back to Saudi. Every Single One.
This is the next step.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/austria-mosque-closures-inmams-deportation-political-islam-freedom-party-a8389771.html
The mood has dramatically altered. Islam must be quarantined within Europe, and, if necessary (I hope not) completely expelled.
It has one last chance to reform. Otherwise, get rid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gZFGpNdH1A
God, the myopic stupidity of these fucking bedwetting liberals. Even as their multicultural edifice crumbles in front of their eyes, they carry on BELIEVING
https://pinkuk.com/events/rotherham-pride-2018
Perhaps you should attend. You might learn something.
http://rotherhampride.co.uk/march-route/0 -
Legislatures are capable of arbitrary acts. Perhaps you’re relaxed about it; I’m not.Purple said:
Why? Because of your self-contradictory definition of a phrase? Legislatures make the law.RoyalBlue said:
Legislatures don’t issue arrest warrants in countries with the rule of law.Purple said:
There's untrustworthiness, and then there's treason.AlastairMeeks said:Isabel Oakeshott is maintaining her reputation as Britain's least trustworthy journalist I see. Given how she treats her friends I’d rather be her enemy.
Will you amend your position if Arron Banks evades a House of Commons arrest warrant by running to Moscow?
If the House of Commons does so to Dominic Cummings, they deserve nothing but our contempt, and his defiance.
Cummings does appear to have snow on his boots, and I wouldn't bet on a rosy future in the cabinet for Michael Gove either, who took Cummings's advice for six years.0 -
Islam in Britain is about where Christianity was when I was young. Being gay actually WAS illegal when I was a kid. Most people knew someone who was quietly gay and wouldn't have dreamed of trying to get them arrested, but they tended to disapprove all the same - "not natural" etc. A small minority even felt the law should be enforced. And I remember in the last 20 years Christians telling me that gay adoption was deplorable.RoyalBlue said:
I wonder which parts of town they’ll march through? Probably not those where a majority of the population think they should be illegal at best, or executed at worst.Foxy said:
Actually there are plenty of LBGT pride events this month in Northern cities. Such as this one in Rotherham.
https://pinkuk.com/events/rotherham-pride-2018
Perhaps you should attend. You might learn something.
I think you'd struggle to find a Muslim in Britain who felt that gays should be executed, beyond the odd attention-seeking provocateur. And I doubt if the disapproval will last more than a generation - just as I think the Ulster Presbytarians who are refusing Communion to gay people will find that their belief is withering on the vine. Although different religions do influence culture, culture in turn influences the religions.
Basically we need to focus on encouraging people to live and let live and obey the law, rather than worry about their opinions. Weirdos like SeanT who want to ban/expel people for beliefs rather than for actions are as bad in their way as fundamentalists.
0 -
Arresting someone for the known crime of refusing to attend a Commons committee when ordered to do so is not an arbitrary act.RoyalBlue said:
Legislatures are capable of arbitrary acts. Perhaps you’re relaxed about it; I’m not.Purple said:
Why? Because of your self-contradictory definition of a phrase? Legislatures make the law.RoyalBlue said:
Legislatures don’t issue arrest warrants in countries with the rule of law.Purple said:
There's untrustworthiness, and then there's treason.AlastairMeeks said:Isabel Oakeshott is maintaining her reputation as Britain's least trustworthy journalist I see. Given how she treats her friends I’d rather be her enemy.
Will you amend your position if Arron Banks evades a House of Commons arrest warrant by running to Moscow?
If the House of Commons does so to Dominic Cummings, they deserve nothing but our contempt, and his defiance.
Cummings does appear to have snow on his boots, and I wouldn't bet on a rosy future in the cabinet for Michael Gove either, who took Cummings's advice for six years.0 -
Ummm: I don't think your view of Jews in Germany as highly assimilated bears much scrutiny.SeanT said:
Yeah, the position of Jews in pre-Hitler Germany - productive, patriotic, super-industrious, highly assimilated, not given to raping underage German girls, not known for mutilating their own girls, not known for honour killings, trying to kill German troops, or blowing up Germans (and French and Brits) in massive suicide attacks - was almost IDENTICAL to the position of Muslims in western Europe now.FeersumEnjineeya said:
Yup. The similarities are frightening. SeanT seems to be turning into an actual Nazi. Replace Islam with Judaism in his posts and translate them into German, and they could have come straight from the 3rd Reich.daodao said:
I find your views unacceptable; they are similar to those promoted in Germany 1933-45. I presume that you feel the same way about Judaism, given that it has many similarities with Islam.SeanT said:
The quotes revealed are all perfectly acceptable, if not boldly correct.TheScreamingEagles said:
Khan, the mayor, should be expelled. He is tainted with Islamism and is a total failure on crime, housing etc
The real threat to our country IS Islam, I don't walk around worried about Poles, Corbynites or Africans blowing me up, or raping my white working class underage female kinfolk in huge whitewashed conspiracies.
Anything else?
Fuck Islam. Polls say almost 50% of Europeans think Islam is incompatible with European values. I agree with them. I'm one of the 48%. Unless it swiftly reforms, Islam must depart these shores. I want it gone. It must be slowly squeezed out with bans on burqas, imams, mosques, halal, the works, as is now happening across Europe from Austria to Denmark to Switzerland.
Let them all bugger off back to Saudi. Every Single One.
I can see how you perceive a chilling echo, you fucking dolt.0 -
Your last paragraph encapsulates the naive notion that somehow an open society can exist in which large minorities hold attitudes that are deeply misogynistic, homophobic and religiously bigoted, but somehow these views won’t affect their behaviour when they interact with women, gays and people of other or no religions. The argument is then developed that because deeply intolerant attitudes are somehow compatible with a live and let live attitude to others, we should be relaxed about a growing proportion of our society holding these opinions. You then cling to the hope that somehow our culture will influence religion, even if in some parts of Britain, ‘our’ culture is no longer present because those who practise it are now a minority.NickPalmer said:
Islam in Britain is about where Christianity was when I was young. Being gay actually WAS illegal when I was a kid. Most people knew someone who was quietly gay and wouldn't have dreamed of trying to get them arrested, but they tended to disapprove all the same - "not natural" etc. A small minority even felt the law should be enforced. And I remember in the last 20 years Christians telling me that gay adoption was deplorable.RoyalBlue said:
I wonder which parts of town they’ll march through? Probably not those where a majority of the population think they should be illegal at best, or executed at worst.Foxy said:
Actually there are plenty of LBGT pride events this month in Northern cities. Such as this one in Rotherham.
https://pinkuk.com/events/rotherham-pride-2018
Perhaps you should attend. You might learn something.
I think you'd struggle to find a Muslim in Britain who felt that gays should be executed, beyond the odd attention-seeking provocateur. And I doubt if the disapproval will last more than a generation - just as I think the Ulster Presbytarians who are refusing Communion to gay people will find that their belief is withering on the vine. Although different religions do influence culture, culture in turn influences the religions.
Basically we need to focus on encouraging people to live and let live and obey the law, rather than worry about their opinions. Weirdos like SeanT who want to ban/expel people for beliefs rather than for actions are as bad in their way as fundamentalists.
Open societies need some common premises. Some beliefs are not tolerable within even liberal societies.
Elastic does not stretch forever.0 -
Frictionless trade in goods requires staying in the single market which requires free movement but we are leaving the single market to end free movementTheScreamingEagles said:0 -
For his own sake I hope SeanT has now staggered off to bed.0
-
Are your you admitting that frictionless trade across the Irish border cannot be delivered within the current red lines and hence requires the backstop?HYUFD said:
Frictionless trade in goods requires staying in the single market which requires free movement but we are leaving the single market to end free movementTheScreamingEagles said:0 -
"Alastair Campbell:
The Brexiteers won the vote, but have lost every argument since"
http://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/campbell-says-leavers-won-vote-but-have-lost-every-argument-on-brexit-since-1-55520510 -
You can still have enough regulatory alignment to avoid a hard border in Irelandwilliamglenn said:
Are your you admitting that frictionless trade across the Irish border cannot be delivered within the current red lines and hence requires the backstop?HYUFD said:
Frictionless trade in goods requires staying in the single market which requires free movement but we are leaving the single market to end free movementTheScreamingEagles said:0 -
It's each House individually. (Source.)viewcode said:
Um, I'm not sure that's true. Parliament[1] is not just a legislature it's also (archaically?) a court and can compel people to attend and detain them if it wishes. Happy to be corrected on this if wrong, but I think it's one of those things that everybody thinks is medaeval but actually isn't.RoyalBlue said:Legislatures don’t issue arrest warrants in countries with the rule of law.
[1] I can't remember if it's the Parliament collectively, each of the House of Commons and House of Lords individually, or correctly constituted bodies within it.
For the Commons there's some info here.
If Dominic Cummings or Arron Banks flits to Moscow, we can look forward to a third Brexit referendum. They don't even have to go that far. Since the expulsions a lot of space at the Russian embassy in London must surely be unused. Camping beds for the lads! They won't need a daylight lamp like Julian Assange's either, because the embassy has some outside space they can lounge about in.0 -
Following your logic does that mean a 'soft' border with some friction?HYUFD said:
You can still have enough regulatory alignment to avoid a hard border in Irelandwilliamglenn said:
Are your you admitting that frictionless trade across the Irish border cannot be delivered within the current red lines and hence requires the backstop?HYUFD said:
Frictionless trade in goods requires staying in the single market which requires free movement but we are leaving the single market to end free movementTheScreamingEagles said:0 -
This is the problem with the EU and the UK's voters, big ideas seem easy (LEAVE or REMAIN) its the detail thats the problem.....I think until the LEAVE camp in the Conservative Party have a coherent vision they will continue to flounder - they actually need a leader (and its not JRM or N Farage)AndyJS said:"Alastair Campbell:
The Brexiteers won the vote, but have lost every argument since"
http://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/campbell-says-leavers-won-vote-but-have-lost-every-argument-on-brexit-since-1-55520510 -
Why do you keep repeating this nonsense? Leavers have a perfectly clear vision of what Brexit should look like - out of CU/SM, FTA agreement, regulatory divergence. The problem with Brexit is that May is trying to impose a Remain solution on Brexit and none exists. Frictionless trade, quasi SM membership is not possible but it is the Remainers who are demanding this, not the Leavers.swing_voter said:
This is the problem with the EU and the UK's voters, big ideas seem easy (LEAVE or REMAIN) its the detail thats the problem.....I think until the LEAVE camp in the Conservative Party have a coherent vision they will continue to flounder - they actually need a leader (and its not JRM or N Farage)AndyJS said:"Alastair Campbell:
The Brexiteers won the vote, but have lost every argument since"
http://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/campbell-says-leavers-won-vote-but-have-lost-every-argument-on-brexit-since-1-55520510 -
The NI border problem is not caused by the UK. The UK can simply say that we are prepared to accept goods that conform to EU regulations to cross the NI border and we have already stated that we have no interest in charging tariffs on EU goods. So there is simply no problem from the UK side.williamglenn said:
Following your logic does that mean a 'soft' border with some friction?HYUFD said:
You can still have enough regulatory alignment to avoid a hard border in Irelandwilliamglenn said:
Are your you admitting that frictionless trade across the Irish border cannot be delivered within the current red lines and hence requires the backstop?HYUFD said:
Frictionless trade in goods requires staying in the single market which requires free movement but we are leaving the single market to end free movementTheScreamingEagles said:
Somehow, our moronic negotiators have agreed that it is our problem to solve the EUs issue, which is they don't want us to be able to access the precious SM without piles of bureaucracy unless they are a full member. Well, that is their problem. The obvious solution is that they make an exception for the NI border if they are that concerned about the peace process. If not, they can instruct Varadkhar to build a hard border on their side. He won't be so smug then.
And @HYUFD, I told you the last two weeks that we were heading for the EU demanding FOM in return for the backstop agreement. May will have to concede because she won't walk. You only have several thousand posts stating unconditionally that May will end FOM - so you might just spend the rest of life trying to justify how May ended FOM when in fact she hasn't. Maybe you will avail yourself of the new EU data regulations and ask for everything to be deleted as you 'have a right to be forgotten."
0 -
Not happening as May and Corbyn are committed to ending FOM and if she backtracked she would instantly be replaced as Tory leader.archer101au said:
The NI border problem is not caused by the UK. The UK can simply say that we are prepared to accept goods that conform to EU regulations to cross the NI border and we have already stated that we have no interest in charging tariffs on EU goods. So there is simply no problem from the UK side.williamglenn said:
Following your logic does that mean a 'soft' border with some friction?HYUFD said:
You can still have enough regulatory alignment to avoid a hard border in Irelandwilliamglenn said:
Are your you admitting that frictionless trade across the Irish border cannot be delivered within the current red lines and hence requires the backstop?HYUFD said:
Frictionless trade in goods requires staying in the single market which requires free movement but we are leaving the single market to end free movementTheScreamingEagles said:
Somehow, our moronic negotiators have agreed that it is our problem to solve the EUs issue, which is they don't want us to be able to access the precious SM without piles of bureaucracy unless they are a full member. Well, that is their problem. The obvious solution is that they make an exception for the NI border if they are that concerned about the peace process. If not, they can instruct Varadkhar to build a hard border on their side. He won't be so smug then.
And @HYUFD, I told you the last two weeks that we were heading for the EU demanding FOM in return for the backstop agreement. May will have to concede because she won't walk. You only have several thousand posts stating unconditionally that May will end FOM - so you might just spend the rest of life trying to justify how May ended FOM when in fact she hasn't. Maybe you will avail yourself of the new EU data regulations and ask for everything to be deleted as you 'have a right to be forgotten."
Plus even a work permit or job offer requirement on arrival is still technically not Freedom of Movement0 -
Drink some water, put down the gin, take some paracetamol and sleep for a while.SeanT said:
Yeah, the position of Jews in pre-Hitler Germany - productive, patriotic, super-industrious, highly assimilated, not given to raping underage German girls, not known for mutilating their own girls, not known for honour killings, trying to kill German troops, or blowing up Germans (and French and Brits) in massive suicide attacks - was almost IDENTICAL to the position of Muslims in western Europe now.FeersumEnjineeya said:
Yup. The similarities are frightening. SeanT seems to be turning into an actual Nazi. Replace Islam with Judaism in his posts and translate them into German, and they could have come straight from the 3rd Reich.daodao said:
I find your views unacceptable; they are similar to those promoted in Germany 1933-45. I presume that you feel the same way about Judaism, given that it has many similarities with Islam.SeanT said:
The quotes revealed are all perfectly acceptable, if not boldly correct.TheScreamingEagles said:
Khan, the mayor, should be expelled. He is tainted with Islamism and is a total failure on crime, housing etc
The real threat to our country IS Islam, I don't walk around worried about Poles, Corbynites or Africans blowing me up, or raping my white working class underage female kinfolk in huge whitewashed conspiracies.
Anything else?
Fuck Islam. Polls say almost 50% of Europeans think Islam is incompatible with European values. I agree with them. I'm one of the 48%. Unless it swiftly reforms, Islam must depart these shores. I want it gone. It must be slowly squeezed out with bans on burqas, imams, mosques, halal, the works, as is now happening across Europe from Austria to Denmark to Switzerland.
Let them all bugger off back to Saudi. Every Single One.
I can see how you perceive a chilling echo, you fucking dolt.0
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