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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Prof John Curtice suggests that LAB is not going to have an ea

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  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,733
    HYUFD said:

    Justine Greening says companies should discriminate against Old Etonian applicants as their grades were easier to achieve than those from some state schools.

    Does not sound very conservative to me

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/discriminate-against-job-applicants-from-eton-says-former-education-secretary-justine-greening-m0w3fb86k

    Well she does have the (admittedly anecdotal) compelling evidence of JRM to consider...
  • archer101auarcher101au Posts: 1,612


    Surely it's better to raise the standard in other schools to that of Eton?
    Surely it is better to be a conservative if you want to be in the conservative party.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,569

    This is very, very good on the "hollowing out" of local council services: https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2018/04/crumbling-britain-how-austerity-hollowing-out-heart-tory-somerset

    I'm lucky enough to live in a more affluent rural area than West Somerset. But the story is broadly the same. The drip-drip cuts to education and children's services, in particular, are genuinely affecting kids' life chances.

    It is enormously to the discredit of Corbyn and Cable that they have failed to make any of this an issue for the local elections.

    Education at least has been removed from the control of elected councillors and handed over to corporate managers. My teacher grandchildren speak of job descriptions in upper levels of their heirarchies which were completely unknown to my teacher wife.
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    Dude. It's "extra-curricular". With an R. I'm not sure whether you went to an inner-city comp or Eton but it doesn't make much difference if you're not going to listen to what they teach you.

    (Sorry. Couldn't resist.)
    Interestingly the plural of curriculum vitae is Curricula vitae.
    See https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/curriculum vitae

    In extra curricular, curricular is presumably NOT the plural of curriculum.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454

    Interestingly the plural of curriculum vitae is Curricula vitae.
    See https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/curriculum vitae

    In extra curricular, curricular is presumably NOT the plural of curriculum.
    'Curricular' is an adjective, 'curriculum' a noun.

    Indeed it seems 'curricular' is a pretty modern word, coined about a hundred years ago.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,234

    This is very, very good on the "hollowing out" of local council services: https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2018/04/crumbling-britain-how-austerity-hollowing-out-heart-tory-somerset

    I'm lucky enough to live in a more affluent rural area than West Somerset. But the story is broadly the same. The drip-drip cuts to education and children's services, in particular, are genuinely affecting kids' life chances.

    It is enormously to the discredit of Corbyn and Cable that they have failed to make any of this an issue for the local elections.

    One silver lining for me personally of a Labour Gov't might hopefully be a bit of 'redistribution' to less affluent areas via a bit more central grant for the various councils. The councils will probably sperlunk it up the wall rather than making the council tax more reasonable though.
  • Pulpstar said:

    One silver lining for me personally of a Labour Gov't might hopefully be a bit of 'redistribution' to less affluent areas via a bit more central grant for the various councils. The councils will probably sperlunk it up the wall rather than making the council tax more reasonable though.
    It will get blown on vanity projects I suspect.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,214

    Your previoius experience of how things are going means we certainly listen to your feedback!
    I did try to caveat the above comment with the fact that it's all second-hand (though from people who I have reasonable confidence in). I've not had chance to get out on the doorstep myself.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,481
    Mr. Pulpstar, that sounds a bit like having a silver lining of the house being less stuffy when the roof gets blown off by a hurricane :p
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,234

    I did try to caveat the above comment with the fact that it's all second-hand (though from people who I have reasonable confidence in). I've not had chance to get out on the doorstep myself.
    Surely Osset ward will be a gain ?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,689
    edited May 2018
    Can we pin any diseases on the other parties?

    "Vote Conservative, Get Rickets"?

    (Or should I have spelled that "Rickitts"?)
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    It would be nice to get some information about the key London boroughs to match David Herdson's earlier anecdotes. Sadly we know from 2016 how accurate he can be.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    HYUFD said:

    Eton is academically selective and is indeed beaten by a number of super selective state grammar schools in the league tables which are even more academically selective.

    Stowe for example takes pupils whose parents are rich enough to send their children to Eton but who may not pass the Eton entrance exam
    Given Eton is bottom of the league that shouldn’t be too hard.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,244

    Mr. Capitano, where would you get the money from to either maintain or increase said budgets? Foreign aid?

    Well, there are shibboleths I'd de-fund but which I won't mention here because the resulting bunfight would drown out any sensible argument!

    But on a more general level, I'd pay more tax for better services. I can afford to pay more, and since the service I currently get is substandard, I want to pay for it to be better. Our county council tax is going up by 5.99% this year and to be honest I'm glad: the reduction in service provision over the last few years has been embarrassing, yet the amount of disposable income in our (prosperous) town is clearly at an all-time high. Something is wrong with this.

    More specifically, I'd move to unitaries in all rural areas. The current two-tier system is not fit for purpose in an age of very low budgets, but is also increasingly ill-suited for areas like most of the South-East where significant housing development is planned: the split between local planning (district) and infrastructure planning (county) means that Section 106/CIL funding slips through the cracks, and the local authorities are left having to fund infrastructure improvements that should be funded by the developers.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,458

    that's a cruel way to describe France
    I was going to stretch a point and include Ludlow in the 'London' section. Anyway hope the Mayday fair doesn't prove too onerous
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052
    I don't think Curtice is saying anything surprising. There will be interesting variations in the results though, and that's what a lot of us will be looking for. Places where the Tories or Labour do better/worse than the national trend. For example, there are Brexit/Remain areas where politics is now deeply intwined with Brexit, and others where it isn't. And Brexit areas that have become distinctly less Brexity in the last year. I won't be surprised to see the Tories losing several southern councils to NOC (or worse); meanwhile a couple of Labour losses will surely happen - but where?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,234


    More specifically, I'd move to unitaries in all rural areas.

    For sure. Any idea how to get a proposal like that started ?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,867
    edited May 2018

    Kind of on-topicish.

    I don't have any direct canvass contact from this year's locals, so take what I say here with a pinch of salt. However, the feedback I've had from experienced activists across several wards in my part of the world has been encouragingly positive for the Tories. I'd be very surprised if we don't make any gains in Wakefield. I'd settle for a net +2 to +3 (out of 21 wards, with one defence), but it could be more (it could be less too, though I'd be very surprised and disappointed if there are no net gains).

    I remember you coming on to PB three nights before the 2017 general election and saying your canvassing had shown it was all going down the pan for Theresa and Con!

    Everyone thought your account had been hacked! :D
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,458
    hunchman said:
    That's good to know. By the way a big hallo from all those Big Issue sellers who followed your advice on the stock market
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052


    There is huge amounts of ...........
    or
    There are huge amounts of ......... ?

    There are.

    But "There is" with plurals is a normal and acceptable colloquialism, eg. "There's several intelligent posters on PB."
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,214
    Pulpstar said:

    Surely Osset ward will be a gain ?
    I wouldn't bank on it, though obviously it's one that we're targetting. Ossett is currently split Con/Lab/UKIP, though the UKIP councillor has defected to us and is standing again under our flag this time. However, we've not won it in a non-GE year since 2011, so it's not an easy nut to crack.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,867
    edited May 2018
    I can see SJ having a shot at becoming PM but he'll need Theresa to go quite quickly as the longer he's at Home the greater the chance it'll destroy him like it does most the politicians running that department...
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,244

    Education at least has been removed from the control of elected councillors and handed over to corporate managers. My teacher grandchildren speak of job descriptions in upper levels of their heirarchies which were completely unknown to my teacher wife.
    There is something in that, absolutely. The travails of multi-academy trusts such as the notorious Bright Tribe are painful to watch.

    But local councils can still do a lot. Of the two schools I know best, one is still local-authority controlled, the other is an academy under the local Diocese (so, effectively, a charity). Both are very good schools, and recognised as such by Ofsted.

    The county council still, in theory, has significant statutory responsibilities for these and all schools. Special needs support. Attendance. Exclusion. All of that.

    I say "in theory" because, in practice, it is fulfilling almost none of these. When the schools phone to ask the LA officers for support, they are told bluntly that it isn't available any more. Every answer is phrased around "how can we avoid committing to any spending" rather than "how do we fulfil our statutory obligations", let alone "how do we do what's best for the child".

    What this means is that schools are now spending more and more time fire-fighting the troubled, disruptive kids, and less time educating the 95%. I am lucky enough not to have a kid in an affected class, but there are a couple of classes I'm aware of where, frankly, I would withdraw my kid and go private. I place no blame on the teachers or the school management: I don't see what else they can do and I know the financial resources they are committing to these troubled kids are already way out of proportion. They have been let down by the local authority and, by extension, by a Government which is not willing to fund them properly.
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293

    This is very, very good on the "hollowing out" of local council services: https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2018/04/crumbling-britain-how-austerity-hollowing-out-heart-tory-somerset

    I'm lucky enough to live in a more affluent rural area than West Somerset. But the story is broadly the same. The drip-drip cuts to education and children's services, in particular, are genuinely affecting kids' life chances.

    It is enormously to the discredit of Corbyn and Cable that they have failed to make any of this an issue for the local elections.


    You can say theres been a hollowing of social services which has happened as growth in demand has happened. The idea that there's cuts in eduction however is utter nonsense. This is the very first year in over thirty years that education spending has stayed level. Saying that this is hollowing out is the equivalent of asking a morbidly obese man to reduced his daily calorific intake from 4,000 a day down to 3,500.

    You would be stunned if you stepped foot into a modern school. The resources in both staff and resources is extraordinary and a long long way from anything we would have known as our own experiences twenty years ago.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,244
    Pulpstar said:

    For sure. Any idea how to get a proposal like that started ?
    It's happening in Bucks. It's happening in Northants, though under the rather unfortunate circumstances of the existing County Council going bust. It may happen in Oxfordshire (county and two districts pro, three districts anti). One side-effect of Sajid Javid's elevation will be to stall this for a while: he had a few applications in his in-tray.

    Really it needs a national party to adopt it as policy. It should be a natural fit for the Conservatives, but unfortunately there are too many shire Tories who see the erosion of their hard-fought powerbase. (That's certainly the case here with West Oxon and Cherwell, even though the county is Conservative-controlled and likely to remain so.)
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited May 2018
    Talking of local elections, some enterprising Sussex resident has added a new road sign at one of the small roads I drive past on my way to work: "Old Pothole Lane"
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,689
    I'm expecting Labour to lose seats in places like Leeds that normally elect by thirds but where there are all-out elections due to boundary changes. In wards where we hold all 3 seats we could easily lose one to Green or Lib Dem due to "traffic light" voting.
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293

    It's happening in Bucks. It's happening in Northants, though under the rather unfortunate circumstances of the existing County Council going bust. It may happen in Oxfordshire (county and two districts pro, three districts anti). One side-effect of Sajid Javid's elevation will be to stall this for a while: he had a few applications in his in-tray.

    Really it needs a national party to adopt it as policy. It should be a natural fit for the Conservatives, but unfortunately there are too many shire Tories who see the erosion of their hard-fought powerbase. (That's certainly the case here with West Oxon and Cherwell, even though the county is Conservative-controlled and likely to remain so.)

    It will only happen if all the districts and th county agree. The Government dont have the political capital or will to enforce unitarys.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    rcs1000 said:

    Oooh, I don't know, total economic collapse would probably lower Central London prices (denominated in US Dollars).
    It’ll be fantastic for people paying in cash dollars, and very very sh!t for anyone wanting a mortgage in pounds - which of course covers most of the Corbyn enthusiasts.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,689

    Talking of local elections, some enterprising Sussex resident has added a new road sign at one of the small roads I drive past on my way to work: "Old Pothole Lane"

    Round the corner from "Dogshit Alley"?
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    It's happening in Bucks. It's happening in Northants, though under the rather unfortunate circumstances of the existing County Council going bust. It may happen in Oxfordshire (county and two districts pro, three districts anti). One side-effect of Sajid Javid's elevation will be to stall this for a while: he had a few applications in his in-tray.

    Really it needs a national party to adopt it as policy. It should be a natural fit for the Conservatives, but unfortunately there are too many shire Tories who see the erosion of their hard-fought powerbase. (That's certainly the case here with West Oxon and Cherwell, even though the county is Conservative-controlled and likely to remain so.)

    In Bucks the Conservative County Council want the unitary to be based on the County Council

    But the Conservative District Councils want two unitary councils based on combinations of the District Councils.

    They await a final decision fom the new Sec of State who's name is BROKENSHIRE !

  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293


    In Bucks the Conservative County Council want the unitary to be based on the County Council

    But the Conservative District Councils want two unitary councils based on combinations of the District Councils.

    They await a final decision fom the new Sec of State who's name is BROKENSHIRE !

    That's the same as Cumbria. Every one says they want unitary, but the districts want one based on their borders and the county wants it on their borders.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,244
    notme said:


    You can say theres been a hollowing of social services which has happened as growth in demand has happened. The idea that there's cuts in eduction however is utter nonsense. This is the very first year in over thirty years that education spending has stayed level. Saying that this is hollowing out is the equivalent of asking a morbidly obese man to reduced his daily calorific intake from 4,000 a day down to 3,500.

    You would be stunned if you stepped foot into a modern school. The resources in both staff and resources is extraordinary and a long long way from anything we would have known as our own experiences twenty years ago.
    Oh, I step foot into modern schools all the time.

    Education spending is... different to how it was. Twenty years ago there were no multi-academy trusts or free schools. This has undoubtedly affected the profile of spending - I won't pronounce here on whether this is more or less efficient - but I don't think you can make a direct comparison that "there is 5% more education spending, therefore schools have 5% more to spend on doing the same job as they had to do 20 years ago".

    But my primary concern is with the support and funding that schools are given to cope with disruptive kids, and that has, without question, been very severely affected.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,214
    GIN1138 said:

    I can see SJ having a shot at becoming PM but he'll need Theresa to go quite quickly as the longer he's at Home the greater the chance it'll destroy him like it does most the politicians running that department...
    Or it could make him. Or he could be promoted again - given his background, he must now be considered a viable Reserve Chancellor and we know that May isn't keen on Hammond.
  • nunuonenunuone Posts: 1,138
    I think this part of that leaflet is pretty important, but is being ignored.

    "The leaflet appears to refer to an outbreak of the disease at a primary school within the Cradley and Wollescote ward, where Razzaq is a candidate.

    The outbreak was revealed by local Labour councillor Tim Crumpton, who was later berated by the council for broadcasting confidential information, which he denied, The Stourbridge News reported."
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,214
    GIN1138 said:

    I remember you coming on to PB three nights before the 2017 general election and saying your canvassing had shown it was all going down the pan for Theresa and Con!

    Everyone thought your account had been hacked! :D
    For accuracy, it was the Wednesday, and it was based on the reactions to delivering knock-up letters - but yes, I remember TSE contacting me (message, I think, not phone call?), to check whether I had posted the comment or not. I hadn't seen the reaction it caused as i just made a couple of quick posts then settled to to eat and then put the kid to bed.

    But that was a first-hand experience; this isn't quite. However, I still feel reasonably confident. My biggest concern is piling up a load of good seconds - though that of itself would be progress. I still can't see us not doing better here this year than in 2014.
  • nunuonenunuone Posts: 1,138
    nunuone said:

    I think this part of that leaflet is pretty important, but is being ignored.

    "The leaflet appears to refer to an outbreak of the disease at a primary school within the Cradley and Wollescote ward, where Razzaq is a candidate.

    The outbreak was revealed by local Labour councillor Tim Crumpton, who was later berated by the council for broadcasting confidential information, which he denied, The Stourbridge News reported."

    http://www.stourbridgenews.co.uk/news/16147568.Councillor_says_he_was_threatened_after_raising_public_health_concern/

    This story is shocking but is happening up and down the country, this is what uncontrolled mass migration leads to.

    " Cllr Crumpton linked the outbreak, which results from unsanitary conditions, to claims that Public Health officials had discovered around 25 people living in a tiny flat with one toilet in Lye High Street.

    He told the chamber he had been informed there were 25 to 26 people in one flat above a shop and that he’d been told this by "Public Health people”."

    This is happening in London as well.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,867

    For accuracy, it was the Wednesday, and it was based on the reactions to delivering knock-up letters - but yes, I remember TSE contacting me (message, I think, not phone call?), to check whether I had posted the comment or not. I hadn't seen the reaction it caused as i just made a couple of quick posts then settled to to eat and then put the kid to bed.

    But that was a first-hand experience; this isn't quite. However, I still feel reasonably confident. My biggest concern is piling up a load of good seconds - though that of itself would be progress. I still can't see us not doing better here this year than in 2014.
    Thanks for the detail (I'm always a bit sketchy on these things) :)
  • nunuone said:

    http://www.stourbridgenews.co.uk/news/16147568.Councillor_says_he_was_threatened_after_raising_public_health_concern/

    This story is shocking but is happening up and down the country, this is what uncontrolled mass migration leads to.

    " Cllr Crumpton linked the outbreak, which results from unsanitary conditions, to claims that Public Health officials had discovered around 25 people living in a tiny flat with one toilet in Lye High Street.

    He told the chamber he had been informed there were 25 to 26 people in one flat above a shop and that he’d been told this by "Public Health people”."

    This is happening in London as well.
    He should have named the council official that threatened him.
    Then let the official publicly defend his actions.
  • nunuonenunuone Posts: 1,138

    For accuracy, it was the Wednesday, and it was based on the reactions to delivering knock-up letters - but yes, I remember TSE contacting me (message, I think, not phone call?), to check whether I had posted the comment or not. I hadn't seen the reaction it caused as i just made a couple of quick posts then settled to to eat and then put the kid to bed.

    But that was a first-hand experience; this isn't quite. However, I still feel reasonably confident. My biggest concern is piling up a load of good seconds - though that of itself would be progress. I still can't see us not doing better here this year than in 2014.
    But didn't you make another post on Thursday saying maybe you had an over reaction and that your nerves had calm down?
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,983
    GIN1138 said:

    I can see SJ having a shot at becoming PM but he'll need Theresa to go quite quickly as the longer he's at Home the greater the chance it'll destroy him like it does most the politicians running that department...
    Rumour has it that was why Theresa put both Boris and Amber into their respective positions:

    A Tory MP once told me that May had chosen the most poisonous chalice for Rudd to sip at the cabinet table in order to break her spirit. Her energy would be harnessed to the consolidation of the prime minister’s Home Office legacy, while any ambitions she might have to copy May’s route to No 10, perhaps as the champion of a liberal Tory faction, would be burned up in the process. [...] A former Downing Street aide reports a similar calculation behind the placement of Boris Johnson in the Foreign Office. In that case, May was exploiting not diligence but its opposite. Johnson’s ambitions to be leader would be hobbled by the demands of a serious job, which would expose his congenital unseriousness. (That, too, appears to be working.)

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/30/theresa-may-point-leader-stay-still-political-upheaval

    Theresa doesn't like Sajid much, so presumably the same plan's afoot.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,062

    For accuracy, it was the Wednesday, and it was based on the reactions to delivering knock-up letters - but yes, I remember TSE contacting me (message, I think, not phone call?), to check whether I had posted the comment or not. I hadn't seen the reaction it caused as i just made a couple of quick posts then settled to to eat and then put the kid to bed.

    But that was a first-hand experience; this isn't quite. However, I still feel reasonably confident. My biggest concern is piling up a load of good seconds - though that of itself would be progress. I still can't see us not doing better here this year than in 2014.
    I think you are right, while the general election result was better for Labour than expected and worse for the Tories I think this week's local elections will be the reverse.

    Everyone is expecting big Labour gains while forgetting Labour won the NEV by 2% anyway when these wards were last up and most polls now have it at least tied
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,062

    Rumour has it that was why Theresa put both Boris and Amber into their respective positions:

    A Tory MP once told me that May had chosen the most poisonous chalice for Rudd to sip at the cabinet table in order to break her spirit. Her energy would be harnessed to the consolidation of the prime minister’s Home Office legacy, while any ambitions she might have to copy May’s route to No 10, perhaps as the champion of a liberal Tory faction, would be burned up in the process. [...] A former Downing Street aide reports a similar calculation behind the placement of Boris Johnson in the Foreign Office. In that case, May was exploiting not diligence but its opposite. Johnson’s ambitions to be leader would be hobbled by the demands of a serious job, which would expose his congenital unseriousness. (That, too, appears to be working.)

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/30/theresa-may-point-leader-stay-still-political-upheaval

    Theresa doesn't like Sajid much, so presumably the same plan's afoot.
    Or Javid is May's John Major
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,062
    edited May 2018

    Is that the cast from Birds of a Feather?
    Chigwell School dates back to the 17th century, well before Sharon and Tracey
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,214
    nunuone said:

    But didn't you make another post on Thursday saying maybe you had an over reaction and that your nerves had calm down?
    Yes. But as you say, while I cast a little doubt on my Wednesday thoughts, I didn't repudiate them.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,458
    edited May 2018
    OT. cyclefree. Thanks for your interesting comment on my cafe owner friend. You're more compassionate than the average PBer. Out of interest one piece of information that I didn't know when I wrote that letter is that he had produced a work permit but it was a fake. One readily available on the internet apparently and whether because it was convincing or he was too inexperienced to know the difference I don't know but £15,000 is a big price to pay for a very honest mistake.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,100

    Rumour has it that was why Theresa put both Boris and Amber into their respective positions:

    A Tory MP once told me that May had chosen the most poisonous chalice for Rudd to sip at the cabinet table in order to break her spirit. Her energy would be harnessed to the consolidation of the prime minister’s Home Office legacy, while any ambitions she might have to copy May’s route to No 10, perhaps as the champion of a liberal Tory faction, would be burned up in the process. [...] A former Downing Street aide reports a similar calculation behind the placement of Boris Johnson in the Foreign Office. In that case, May was exploiting not diligence but its opposite. Johnson’s ambitions to be leader would be hobbled by the demands of a serious job, which would expose his congenital unseriousness. (That, too, appears to be working.)

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/30/theresa-may-point-leader-stay-still-political-upheaval

    Theresa doesn't like Sajid much, so presumably the same plan's afoot.
    So she deliberately hobbles and undermines her government just to undermine two potential leadership rivals at a moment she won the leadership uncontested?

    Not sure I buy that. She definitely took LBJ's advice wrt Johnson though.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,101

    To get a driving licence you have to be have passed the test to be able drive. That is extremely expensive. Plus what do you do if people lose their licence because of offences?
    Richard, You can get a provisional whether you drive or not.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 54,553

    Rumour has it that was why Theresa put both Boris and Amber into their respective positions:

    A Tory MP once told me that May had chosen the most poisonous chalice for Rudd to sip at the cabinet table in order to break her spirit. Her energy would be harnessed to the consolidation of the prime minister’s Home Office legacy, while any ambitions she might have to copy May’s route to No 10, perhaps as the champion of a liberal Tory faction, would be burned up in the process. [...] A former Downing Street aide reports a similar calculation behind the placement of Boris Johnson in the Foreign Office. In that case, May was exploiting not diligence but its opposite. Johnson’s ambitions to be leader would be hobbled by the demands of a serious job, which would expose his congenital unseriousness. (That, too, appears to be working.)

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/30/theresa-may-point-leader-stay-still-political-upheaval

    Theresa doesn't like Sajid much, so presumably the same plan's afoot.
    It was much more to do with having a vocal and visible Remainer in the Cabinet. May still has respect for Rudd attending the Brexit debate so soon after the death of her father.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,062

    Yes. But as you say, while I cast a little doubt on my Wednesday thoughts, I didn't repudiate them.
    Don't forget either in 2017 the Tories were defending a lead of 7% at the previous general election, now Labour are defending a lead of 2% at the last local elections these wards were up.

    It is all about expectations management
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,234

    Yes. But as you say, while I cast a little doubt on my Wednesday thoughts, I didn't repudiate them.
    Did the dementia tax come up on every other doorstep ?

    For all the Tories woes regarding Brexit, windrush there isn't anything like that policy floating about at the moment.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,526
    edited May 2018
    Days , Hours , minutes since last antisemitism scandal in Labour Party...all time for a big shrug.

    https://order-order.com/2018/05/01/labour-candidate-ranted-jew-propaganda/
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,689
    HYUFD said:

    I think you are right, while the general election result was better for Labour than expected and worse for the Tories I think this week's local elections will be the reverse.

    Everyone is expecting big Labour gains while forgetting Labour won the NEV by 2% anyway when these wards were last up and most polls now have it at least tied
    Agreed. And as has been said, if there is a swing to Labour in London, there has to be a larger than average swing away from Labour in the rest of the country.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,795
    Jonathan said:

    So she deliberately hobbles and undermines her government just to undermine two potential leadership rivals at a moment she won the leadership uncontested?

    Not sure I buy that. She definitely took LBJ's advice wrt Johnson though.
    On the other hand, she had to give those jobs to someone. HO is notorious for being a 'difficult' department where you could find yourself in problems, and Johnson did need a high profile role as the 'leading' leaver.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,795
    Owen Jones
    ‏VERIFIED ACCOUNT @OwenJones84

    This is urgent. Labour won’t make gains on Thursday unless more of you who want a socialist society volunteer to come and canvass. SIGN UP >> http://www.facebook.com/owenjones84/events

    Young Jones having another attack of the Vapours.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,101

    So you think that someone with 3 Bs from Eton has the same merit as someone with 3 Bs from an inner-city comp?
    As a Tory of course he/she does , any chap going to Eton must be a good egg , thick or not.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,234

    On the other hand, she had to give those jobs to someone. HO is notorious for being a 'difficult' department where you could find yourself in problems, and Johnson did need a high profile role as the 'leading' leaver.
    FO is an absolute cakewalk compared to HO, a tough gig.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,481
    Mr. Pulpstar, indeed. Although that doesn't stop Boris being unfit for the job.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,062
    malcolmg said:

    As a Tory of course he/she does , any chap going to Eton must be a good egg , thick or not.
    No, just because I do not believe in inverse snobbery does not stop me judging people on their merits rather than the school they went to
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,548

    Owen Jones
    ‏VERIFIED ACCOUNT @OwenJones84

    This is urgent. Labour won’t make gains on Thursday unless more of you who want a socialist society volunteer to come and canvass. SIGN UP >> http://www.facebook.com/owenjones84/events

    Young Jones having another attack of the Vapours.

    https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/991270966943797248
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    Owen Jones
    ‏VERIFIED ACCOUNT @OwenJones84

    This is urgent. Labour won’t make gains on Thursday unless more of you who want a socialist society volunteer to come and canvass. SIGN UP >> http://www.facebook.com/owenjones84/events

    Young Jones having another attack of the Vapours.



    Having 600,000 members is one thing.

    Having 600,000 activists is quite another.

    An issue for the membership in all political parties.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,548

    Owen Jones
    ‏VERIFIED ACCOUNT @OwenJones84

    This is urgent. Labour won’t make gains on Thursday unless more of you who want a socialist society volunteer to come and canvass. SIGN UP >> http://www.facebook.com/owenjones84/events

    Young Jones having another attack of the Vapours.

    :lol: Not sure the cat in the video is too happy...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,062
    edited May 2018

    Owen Jones
    ‏VERIFIED ACCOUNT @OwenJones84

    This is urgent. Labour won’t make gains on Thursday unless more of you who want a socialist society volunteer to come and canvass. SIGN UP >> http://www.facebook.com/owenjones84/events

    Young Jones having another attack of the Vapours.

    Good, hopefully we will see many of those who want a 'socialist society' tramping the streets of Wandsworth, Westminster and Chelsea where I am sure the swing voters in their expensive houses in central London will be convinced by their preaching Marxism on the doorstep
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,378
    There won't be another referendum. The very act of calling it would be political suicide. An act of 'extreme bravery' as Sir Humphrey would say. You may as well say to the electorate ... "Do what we say in future."
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,062

    Agreed. And as has been said, if there is a swing to Labour in London, there has to be a larger than average swing away from Labour in the rest of the country.
    Yes the Tories could even make net gains outside London
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    Pulpstar said:

    Did the dementia tax come up on every other doorstep ?

    For all the Tories woes regarding Brexit, windrush there isn't anything like that policy floating about at the moment.

    The biggest issue for Tier 1 councils is that adult and child social care is absorbing 60% of their expenditure and increasing towards 80%.

    However, the solution is not in the hands of councils but central government.

  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,705
    HYUFD said:

    Good, hopefully we will see many of those who want a 'socialist society' tramping the streets of Wandsworth, Westminster and Chelsea where I am sure the swing voters in their expensive houses in central London will be convinced by their preaching Marxism on the doorstep
    Plenty of people in very expensive houses where I was campaigning at the GE were voting Labour in protest at the Cons retoxification, I assure you.

    Of course if you are in a very expensive house you can weather the storm of the increased Labour cost of government better than the little people (as I thought but didn't tell them).
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,548
    More trouble for May...
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    Morning all,

    I decent result in London will allow Labour to avoid looking at the truth I suspect. That is that out in the marginals outside London, they are not doing anywhere near as well as an Opposition approaching mid-term should be.

    They are performing better than Labour managed under Gaitskell in 1960/1961 - and indeed than under Kinnock in 1984/85 & 1988!
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,689
    HYUFD said:

    Yes the Tories could even make net gains outside London
    They certainly should with all of those ex-Kipper seats up for grabs on top of a swing to the Tories.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 54,852
    CD13 said:

    There won't be another referendum. The very act of calling it would be political suicide. An act of 'extreme bravery' as Sir Humphrey would say. You may as well say to the electorate ... "Do what we say in future."

    Of course there won't. That's why politicians need to keep saying it won't happen every five minutes just in case anyone forgets...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,526
    Not sure I trust that doctor pictured to treat me....
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,787
    maybe they should just try training more at home
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,338
    edited May 2018
    Presume he's one of the teeny weeny number of Brexiteers that actually is racist, an exception that proves the rule kinda thing.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,234


    The biggest issue for Tier 1 councils is that adult and child social care is absorbing 60% of their expenditure and increasing towards 80%.

    However, the solution is not in the hands of councils but central government.

    Yes but politically the inevitable council tax rise is akin to boiling a frog (Also people think it'll go up no matter who is in) whereas the 'dementia tax' was shiny and new . People definitely didn't want to touch it for the very first time.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,062
    TOPPING said:

    Plenty of people in very expensive houses where I was campaigning at the GE were voting Labour in protest at the Cons retoxification, I assure you.

    Of course if you are in a very expensive house you can weather the storm of the increased Labour cost of government better than the little people (as I thought but didn't tell them).
    Some of them were voting against Brexit which at local elections is irrelevant, avoiding sky high council tax from socialist Labour councils is more relevant then
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,062
    justin124 said:

    They are performing better than Labour managed under Gaitskell in 1960/1961 - and indeed than under Kinnock in 1984/85 & 1988!
    Kinnock of course lost both the 1987 and 1992 general elections and it was Wilson not Gaitskill who won in 1964
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,548

    Presume he's one of the teeny weeny number of Brexiteers that actually is racist, an exception that proves the rule kinda thing.
    He actually has Looney as part of his name :lol:
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,062
    edited May 2018

    They certainly should with all of those ex-Kipper seats up for grabs on top of a swing to the Tories.
    Quite possibly though Labour will get some of the ex-Kippers too
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,548
    Doesn't solve today's problems. Takes 8 years or more iirc.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,787

    Doesn't solve today's problems. Takes 8 years or more iirc.
    HMG has been in power that long and done nothing

    same for their predecessors

    the NHS just doesn't plan its personnel needs properly
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,548

    HMG has been in power that long and done nothing

    same for their predecessors

    the NHS just doesn't plan its personnel needs properly
    er:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-37546360
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,062
    Pulpstar said:

    Yes but politically the inevitable council tax rise is akin to boiling a frog (Also people think it'll go up no matter who is in) whereas the 'dementia tax' was shiny and new . People definitely didn't want to touch it for the very first time.
    Council tax, National Insurance and Income tax will be the source for extra social care and NHS funds.

    The general election result killed off the idea of a 'dementia tax' for good
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,787

    er:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-37546360
    so they should have started sooner
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    Maybe all the part time lady doctors could work full time?

    I'll get my coat.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    That Frank Lampard on the cover went to a posh school. He could have got into medicine, I expect, with his O-level Latin and public support for the Conservative Party.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,526
    edited May 2018
    The BBC employed household names on “an elegant form of zero hours contract”, a tribunal has heard, as three BBC news presenters appealed against a £920,000 tax bill.

    Joanna Gosling, David Eades and Tim Willcox were “pushed by the BBC” into setting up personal service companies, an arrangement that allowed the corporation to avoid paying ­employers’ National Insurance contributions. But the contracts came with no benefits and amounted to “no work, no pay”, the court heard.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/01/bbc-put-presenters-elegant-form-zero-hours-pay-court-hears/

    With this and Cliff case, the bbc taxpayer could be paying a shit tonne of cash.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,536
    edited May 2018

    so they should have started sooner
    Indeed, this is very much the fault of Cameron and Osborne.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,787

    That Frank Lampard on the cover went to a posh school. He could have got into medicine, I expect, with his O-level Latin and public support for the Conservative Party.
    medicine is oversubscribed at something like 10-1

    there are more than enough capable candidates, even male ones
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,689


    Maybe all the part time lady doctors could work full time?

    I'll get my coat.
    Or the gentlemen doctors who retire at 58 could put a few more shifts in?
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256


    Maybe all the part time lady doctors could work full time?

    I'll get my coat.
    Is it a white one? ;)
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,536

    The BBC employed household names on “an elegant form of zero hours contract”, a tribunal has heard, as three BBC news presenters appealed against a £920,000 tax bill.

    Joanna Gosling, David Eades and Tim Willcox were “pushed by the BBC” into setting up personal service companies, an arrangement that allowed the corporation to avoid paying ­employers’ National Insurance contributions. But the contracts came with no benefits and amounted to “no work, no pay”, the court heard.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/01/bbc-put-presenters-elegant-form-zero-hours-pay-court-hears/

    With this and Cliff case, the bbc taxpayer could be paying a shit tonne of cash.

    Gosling is the ex-wife of Craig Oliver.
  • nunuonenunuone Posts: 1,138

    More trouble for May...

    None of it amounts to a row of beans it seems......

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/991277540084998144

    another increasing Tory lead....what if this is more like 2015 where the tories end up with a 7% lead?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,526
    edited May 2018
    tlg86 said:

    Gosling is the ex-wife of Craig Oliver.
    And that is pertinent because?
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    HYUFD said:

    Council tax, National Insurance and Income tax will be the source for extra social care and NHS funds.

    The general election result killed off the idea of a 'dementia tax' for good
    Dementia tax already exists.

    Unless you have assets worth less than £23,250, you pay for your own residential and nursing care apart from a small allowance.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    GIN1138 said:

    I can see SJ having a shot at becoming PM but he'll need Theresa to go quite quickly as the longer he's at Home the greater the chance it'll destroy him like it does most the politicians running that department...
    That is not always true. The Home Office was the making of Roy Jenkins in the mid-1960s - and it also helped Jim Callaghan's career to recover.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,795
    nunuone said:

    None of it amounts to a row of beans it seems......

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/991277540084998144

    another increasing Tory lead....what if this is more like 2015 where the tories end up with a 7% lead?
    Windrush seems to have absolutely no impact.
This discussion has been closed.