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What has Jezza done now about PMQs?

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/johnestevens/status/989049223869018112

From Pendle too, apt for Labour today..

David_Evershed said:

Can someone clarify please.

If you think that Jews should not occupy Israel that seems to make you anti Zionist.

And being anti Zionist seems to make you anti semitic.

Is this right?

The question is more complicated than I thought.

According to Wikipedia .............

Semites, Semitic people or Semitic cultures (from the biblical "Shem", Hebrew: שם‎) was a term for an ethnic, cultural or racial group who speak or spoke the Semitic languages

A DNA study of Jews and Palestinian Arabs (including Bedouins) found that these were more closely related to each other than to neighboring Arabs.

Genetic studies indicate that modern Jews (Ashkenazi, Sephardic and Mizrahi specifically), Levantine Arabs, Assyrians, Samaritans, Maronites, Druze, Mandaeans, and Mhallami, all have an ancient indigenous common Near Eastern heritage which can be genetically mapped back to the ancient Fertile Crescent, but often also display genetic profiles distinct from one another, indicating the different histories of these peoples.

Hence those racially against Palestinians are also anti semitic it seems.

SandyRentool said:

Tissue_Price said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

So in the last year Corbyn's favorability has improved by 20% and Mrs May's has fallen by 25%?

Am I reading the graph right?

In a strict statistical sense, yes. Just looking at the endpoints misses a big chunk of the story, though.

Just looking at the end points also loses the many opportunities to shout "CROSSOVER!"

However, it is good to see that TSE has been on a LibDem graph-making course.

Funnily enough I was recently offered a job working for a crisis management firm. I was told my ability to put the most positive/negative spin on stories is excellent.

'It was a truly a terrible night for the iceberg, smashed into thousands of pieces by the Titanic'

TheScreamingEagles said:

Told you that the DUP could make Corbyn PM.

A senior DUP MP today warned Theresa May that his party is prepared to bring down the Government rather than see Northern Ireland fracture away from Britain.

Nigel Dodds, leader of the Democratic Unionist Party at Westminster, said his party would enforce its “red line” that Brexit must not lead to a rift between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK.

EU leaders are pushing for the province to effectively remain in the customs union and single market if the Government fails to come up with a solution to avoid a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic.

Mr Dodds said: “If, as a result of the Brexit negotiations for instance, there was to be any suggestion that Northern Ireland would be treated differently in a way, for instance that we were part of a customs union and a single market and the rest of the UK wasn’t ... for us that would be a red line, which we would vote against the Government.”

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-latest-dup-leader-vows-to-bring-down-theresa-may-if-she-breaks-red-line-on-border-a3823321.html

Doddy must realise that with a JC PM, he would find himself a citizen of the republic fairly quickly.

Please pray for me.

I'm going to see Liverpool play Roma next week, and I'm scared because of the Roma fans I'm going to have to fly on Ryanair.

rottenborough said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

What has Jezza done now about PMQs?

Usual ranting. Failed to land a punch over Windrush. Seemed to be happy to allow May to paint Labour as soft on illegal immigration.

A good summary:

https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/989101979598286849

Again, this is just Jezza's world view, they aren't really any such thing as illegal immigrants, as they are all here fleeing war or to make a better life for themselves. None of which should be illegal.

TheScreamingEagles said:

Please pray for me.

I'm going to see Liverpool play Roma next week, and I'm scared because of the Roma fans I'm going to have to fly on Ryanair.

You are going to be in for a real shock there!

Pulpstar said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/johnestevens/status/989049223869018112

From Pendle too, apt for Labour today..

It does perhaps demonstrate that many BNP and Kipper former voters may well follow the same path to Labour voting, as indeed they did last June.

Heaven has a place for sinners who repent.

AlastairMeeks said:

Jeremy Corbyn has started doing something a bit different. He's now called for the resignation of both Amber Rudd and Theresa May. In the past he's apparently seen such calls as beneath him, even when the opportunities were screaming at him. Worth noting.

Makes Rudd safer than she otherwise might have been does it not as May won't want to be seen dancing to Corbyn's tune.

David Tredinnick banging on about homeopathy.

Eesh

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Please pray for me.

I'm going to see Liverpool play Roma next week, and I'm scared because of the Roma fans I'm going to have to fly on Ryanair.

You are going to be in for a real shock there!

Is Ryanair that bad?

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Please pray for me.

I'm going to see Liverpool play Roma next week, and I'm scared because of the Roma fans I'm going to have to fly on Ryanair.

You are going to be in for a real shock there!

Is Ryanair that bad?

I had to endure it late last year. I am still in counselling.....

Slackbladder said:

Could be a huge story:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/police-probe-launched-over-postal-vote-abuse-in-key-local-election-boroughs-a3823156.html

It could be a huge story but so far the only police complaints seem to have come from the Conservative Party itself, according to that article.

CD13 said:

Mr Eagles,

"I'm going to see Liverpool play Roma next week, and I'm scared because of the Roma fans I'm going to have to fly on Ryanair."

By all means taunt the local Mafioso with anti-Roma chants, but don't chance Ryanair. It's honestly not worth the risk. They'll charge you to fart and you'll probably land near Naples.

I might go on the train then.

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Please pray for me.

I'm going to see Liverpool play Roma next week, and I'm scared because of the Roma fans I'm going to have to fly on Ryanair.

You are going to be in for a real shock there!

Is Ryanair that bad?

I had to endure it late last year. I am still in counselling.....

Train it is then.

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Please pray for me.

I'm going to see Liverpool play Roma next week, and I'm scared because of the Roma fans I'm going to have to fly on Ryanair.

You are going to be in for a real shock there!

Is Ryanair that bad?

I had to endure it late last year. I am still in counselling.....

Train it is then.

In all fairness, if you fly RyanAir with zero expectations of it being much more than being transported like cattle and have noise cancelling headphones to drown out the noise of the stag parties and the constant adverts trying to flog you some RyanAir related crap, it isn't the end of the world.

I wouldn't want to be on there for more than 2hrs though and would never choose to fly with them (EasyJet are much better if you are going no frills).

Late time I was sat next to a homeless guy who tried to tell me all about his life. I am guessing flying RyanAir was cheaper than staying in a hostel in the middle of winter.

AlastairMeeks said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Please pray for me.

I'm going to see Liverpool play Roma next week, and I'm scared because of the Roma fans I'm going to have to fly on Ryanair.

You are going to be in for a real shock there!

Is Ryanair that bad?

I had to endure it late last year. I am still in counselling.....

Lightweights. Try Wizz Air out of Luton.

My Dad tells me Luton town centre is worse than the airport even

Pulpstar said:

AlastairMeeks said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Please pray for me.

I'm going to see Liverpool play Roma next week, and I'm scared because of the Roma fans I'm going to have to fly on Ryanair.

You are going to be in for a real shock there!

Is Ryanair that bad?

I had to endure it late last year. I am still in counselling.....

Lightweights. Try Wizz Air out of Luton.

My Dad tells me Luton town centre is worse than the airport even

Luton Airport Parkway <-> Luton Airport, town doesn't need to figure

TheWhiteRabbit said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Please pray for me.

I'm going to see Liverpool play Roma next week, and I'm scared because of the Roma fans I'm going to have to fly on Ryanair.

You are going to be in for a real shock there!

Is Ryanair that bad?

I had to endure it late last year. I am still in counselling.....

Train it is then.

In all fairness, if you fly RyanAir with zero expectations of it being much more than being transported like cattle and have noise cancelling headphones to drown out the noise of the stag parties and the constant adverts trying to flog you some RyanAir related crap, it isn't the end of the world.

I wouldn't want to be on there for more than 2hrs though and would never choose to fly with them (EasyJet are much better if you are going no frills).

If I'm flying to another country for the cost of a train ticket to Norwich, I know what I'm getting. WizzAir, indeed, evenmore so.

I have never had the pleasure of WizzAir, but with a name like Wizz, I am going to guess they aren't trying to rival Emirates.

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Please pray for me.

I'm going to see Liverpool play Roma next week, and I'm scared because of the Roma fans I'm going to have to fly on Ryanair.

You are going to be in for a real shock there!

Is Ryanair that bad?

I had to endure it late last year. I am still in counselling.....

Train it is then.

In all fairness, if you fly RyanAir with zero expectations of it being much more than being transported like cattle and have noise cancelling headphones to drown out the noise of the stag parties and the constant adverts trying to flog you some RyanAir related crap, it isn't the end of the world.

I wouldn't want to be on there for more than 2hrs though and would never choose to fly with them (EasyJet are much better if you are going no frills).

Late time I was sat next to a homeless guy who tried to tell me all about his life. I am guessing flying RyanAir was cheaper than staying in a hostel in the middle of winter.

Apart from being made to queue outside in the rain prior to boarding, Ryanair is no different to any other short-haul carrier these days. BA charge you for a cup of tea too, and their leg room, if anything, is worse.

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Please pray for me.

I'm going to see Liverpool play Roma next week, and I'm scared because of the Roma fans I'm going to have to fly on Ryanair.

You are going to be in for a real shock there!

Is Ryanair that bad?

I had to endure it late last year. I am still in counselling.....

Train it is then.

In all fairness, if you fly RyanAir with zero expectations of it being much more than being transported like cattle and have noise cancelling headphones to drown out the noise of the stag parties and the constant adverts trying to flog you some RyanAir related crap, it isn't the end of the world.

I wouldn't want to be on there for more than 2hrs though and would never choose to fly with them (EasyJet are much better if you are going no frills).

Late time I was sat next to a homeless guy who tried to tell me all about his life. I am guessing flying RyanAir was cheaper than staying in a hostel in the middle of winter.

Outbound journey is 2hrs 45 mins and return journey is 10 mins longer.

My last flight was in first class on Emirates

DecrepitJohnL said:

rottenborough said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

What has Jezza done now about PMQs?

Usual ranting. Failed to land a punch over Windrush. Seemed to be happy to allow May to paint Labour as soft on illegal immigration.

A good summary:

https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/989101979598286849

Couldn't Hodges' tweet be turned around the other way? Isn't it just as valid to say Corbyn was talking about legal settlers and that Theresa May spoke about illegal ones.

To be honest I simply do not think he sees any difference and gives the impression that he is indifferent to illegal immigration

PMQs - Snap verdict: For many listeners that may have been a confusing PMQs to follow, because for much of it Corbyn and May appeared to be talking at complete cross purposes, but there was no escaping the fact that May was dodging legitimate and awkward questions about the impact of her policies as home secretary and Corbyn successfully had her wriggling.

He repeatedly asked why she ignored warnings about the impact her “hostile environment” strategy would have on Windrush generation migrants, and she couldn’t answer. Instead she more or less ignored the points he was making and kept trying to bring the exchanges back to the issue of illegal immigration, not legal, Windrush-era immigration.

It may well be the case that there is more public support for May than Labour MPs (or Guardian readers) would care to admit when she says the public do want to see government crack down on illegal immigration. And Corbyn’s firm questioning took a slightly odd turn right at the end, when he threw in a surprise call for Amber Rudd’s resignation after an exchange that had focused on May’s own culpability.

But, overall, May was very much on the defensive and her efforts to defend herself against Corbyn by quoting Liam Byrne and Yvette Cooper against him was a strategy doomed to failure. You won’t find “controls on immigration” mugs on sale at Labour HQ anymore, and there is a very good reason why Cooper is no longer shadow home secretary. Corbyn can’t be held to responsible for Labour immigration policy pre-2015; he opposed it as strongly as anyone.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2018/apr/25/pmqs-may-corbyn-david-davis-amber-rudd-windrush-questioned-by-commons-brexit-committee-politics-live

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Please pray for me.

I'm going to see Liverpool play Roma next week, and I'm scared because of the Roma fans I'm going to have to fly on Ryanair.

You are going to be in for a real shock there!

Is Ryanair that bad?

I had to endure it late last year. I am still in counselling.....

Train it is then.

In all fairness, if you fly RyanAir with zero expectations of it being much more than being transported like cattle and have noise cancelling headphones to drown out the noise of the stag parties and the constant adverts trying to flog you some RyanAir related crap, it isn't the end of the world.

I wouldn't want to be on there for more than 2hrs though and would never choose to fly with them (EasyJet are much better if you are going no frills).

If I'm flying to another country for the cost of a train ticket to Norwich, I know what I'm getting. WizzAir, indeed, evenmore so.

I have never had the pleasure of WizzAir, but with a name like Wizz, I am going to guess they aren't trying to rival Emirates.

Emirates: 10-across on a 777. Better seat width on Wizz.

SandyRentool said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Please pray for me.

I'm going to see Liverpool play Roma next week, and I'm scared because of the Roma fans I'm going to have to fly on Ryanair.

You are going to be in for a real shock there!

Is Ryanair that bad?

I had to endure it late last year. I am still in counselling.....

Train it is then.

In all fairness, if you fly RyanAir with zero expectations of it being much more than being transported like cattle and have noise cancelling headphones to drown out the noise of the stag parties and the constant adverts trying to flog you some RyanAir related crap, it isn't the end of the world.

I wouldn't want to be on there for more than 2hrs though and would never choose to fly with them (EasyJet are much better if you are going no frills).

Late time I was sat next to a homeless guy who tried to tell me all about his life. I am guessing flying RyanAir was cheaper than staying in a hostel in the middle of winter.

Apart from being made to queue outside in the rain prior to boarding, Ryanair is no different to any other short-haul carrier these days. BA charge you for a cup of tea too, and their leg room, if anything, is worse.

Do BA try and flog you scratch cards, hotels, car hire, currency exchange, local maps and guide books etc etc etc etc for the entirety of the flight? Only ceasing to do so, when a fight breaks out between the groom and his best man?

Quincel said:

David_Evershed said:

David_Evershed said:

Can someone clarify please.

If you think that Jews should not occupy Israel that seems to make you anti Zionist.

And being anti Zionist seems to make you anti semitic.

Is this right?

The question is more complicated than I thought.

According to Wikipedia .............

Semites, Semitic people or Semitic cultures (from the biblical "Shem", Hebrew: שם‎) was a term for an ethnic, cultural or racial group who speak or spoke the Semitic languages

A DNA study of Jews and Palestinian Arabs (including Bedouins) found that these were more closely related to each other than to neighboring Arabs.

Genetic studies indicate that modern Jews (Ashkenazi, Sephardic and Mizrahi specifically), Levantine Arabs, Assyrians, Samaritans, Maronites, Druze, Mandaeans, and Mhallami, all have an ancient indigenous common Near Eastern heritage which can be genetically mapped back to the ancient Fertile Crescent, but often also display genetic profiles distinct from one another, indicating the different histories of these peoples.

Hence those racially against Palestinians are also anti semitic it seems.

No, the word 'anti-semitic' has changed meaning over time. Etymologically it comes from the word 'semitic' which indeed is a technical term referring to various Middle-Eastern peoples. But 'anti-semitic' has for a long time now referred exclusively to racism against Jews.

Likewise, the distinction between Zionism and Judaism is an important one. Zionism is a belief in a Jewish state in Israel, being 'pro-zionist' is now also used to mean supporting the way Israel currently acts. Judaism is a culture and/or belief system (depending on the individual) of which support for a Jewish state in Israel is entirely optional. There are some Jews who think Israel shouldn't exist, and many more who think that while it should the current Israeli government acts poorly and should be criticised.

Being anti-zionist refers to opposing the State of Israel, or opposing various actions of Israel. There is no reason to object to Jewish people generally or Jewish culture generally in order to do this.

I'm not sure that's quite right. Being a zionist is about supporting the right is Israel to exist as a political entity. It does not mean providing unequivocal support of Israeli government policy (which would in my opinion be daft).

The IHRA* definition of anti-semitism includes criticism of Israel as a Jewish state (i.e. the criticism is based on the race of the population, or treats it as a "jewish collective"), but excludes "criticism of Israel similar to that levelled against any other country".

There are definitely fuzzy areas and both 'sides' push the boundaries of the definition to serve their own ends.

* adopted by the UK

I'm old enough to remember when PMQs lasted for 15 mins.

TheWhiteRabbit said:

old_labour said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

Anorak said:

"Former". About time, too.
twitter.com/johnestevens/status/989103851730063360

She is a teacher? They let her loose on kids?

That was my thought as well. She seems like a disturbed person.

According to Stephen Bush, the general idea of the party selection is to put up the preferred candidate and some hopeless ones. Apparently in Worchester it was accordingly "a very short list". Does that mean some even weirder candidate must now get the nod??? Let's hope they are just terribly boring and not a certified nutter.

I was not aware they put up a preferred candidate along with dud ones. They should give the party members a choice of viable candidates.

From Twitter, looks like Corbyn did today what he should have done last week. I saw that even moderates like Ben Bradshaw were praising him. Unfortunately, he fluffed his lines yesterday when it came to dealing with antisemitism. One step forward and two steps back.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/apr/25/help-to-buy-agency-writes-down-loan-on-flat-over-grenfell-style-cladding

I know somebody who lives in one of these flats. I had no idea that some of them were losing 90% of their value though, that seems insane.

Ishmael_Z said:

David_Evershed said:

David_Evershed said:

Can someone clarify please.

If you think that Jews should not occupy Israel that seems to make you anti Zionist.

And being anti Zionist seems to make you anti semitic.

Is this right?

The question is more complicated than I thought.

According to Wikipedia .............

Semites, Semitic people or Semitic cultures (from the biblical "Shem", Hebrew: שם‎) was a term for an ethnic, cultural or racial group who speak or spoke the Semitic languages

A DNA study of Jews and Palestinian Arabs (including Bedouins) found that these were more closely related to each other than to neighboring Arabs.

Genetic studies indicate that modern Jews (Ashkenazi, Sephardic and Mizrahi specifically), Levantine Arabs, Assyrians, Samaritans, Maronites, Druze, Mandaeans, and Mhallami, all have an ancient indigenous common Near Eastern heritage which can be genetically mapped back to the ancient Fertile Crescent, but often also display genetic profiles distinct from one another, indicating the different histories of these peoples.

Hence those racially against Palestinians are also anti semitic it seems.

True, but also a quibble (also a reason for thinking that "judeophobia" should be substituted for "anti-semitism.")

I think (but am willing to be corrected) that to be anti-Zionist is to be against Israeli expansionism and its methods of expanding. If you are against the existence of Israel at all you run in to the problem of what to do with all its citizens. Do you send them "home" bearing in mind there must be 4th and 5th generation Israel-born Jews there now? Or what?

Zionists believe Israel including Judea and Samaria (The West Bank and beyond) is the home of the Jewish people and they must therefore limit the gentiles who are allowed to live there as keeping it a majority Jewish state is fundamental. Thus the 'Right of Return' which gives all Jews the right to live in Israel is denied to all non Jews -even those born there-which is why some call it a racist/apartheid state

David_Evershed said:

rottenborough said:

Do not click while drinking coffee!!

https://twitter.com/wallaceme/status/989072866128945153

Who knew the witch issue was so contentious.

One source says:

"Many people do still use “witch” to mean “someone who worships the Devil and/or evil and who engages in gratuitous malevolence.” Present-day Witches generally feel that such a definition of “witch” results merely from Christian politics and propaganda. Pagan Witches regard Satanist witches as Christian heretics and not Pagan at all."

Another source has definitions including both:

- an ugly or unpleasant woman.
- a girl or woman who is bewitchingly attractive

Like “glamorous” derives from “a glamour” which is a spell of control - not a positive thing!

If Yvette had shown that fire 3 years ago she could be PM now...

Charles said:

David_Evershed said:

rottenborough said:

Do not click while drinking coffee!!

https://twitter.com/wallaceme/status/989072866128945153

Who knew the witch issue was so contentious.

One source says:

"Many people do still use “witch” to mean “someone who worships the Devil and/or evil and who engages in gratuitous malevolence.” Present-day Witches generally feel that such a definition of “witch” results merely from Christian politics and propaganda. Pagan Witches regard Satanist witches as Christian heretics and not Pagan at all."

Another source has definitions including both:

- an ugly or unpleasant woman.
- a girl or woman who is bewitchingly attractive

Like “glamorous” derives from “a glamour” which is a spell of control - not a positive thing!

How enthralling

FrancisUrquhart said:

FF43 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Please pray for me.

I'm going to see Liverpool play Roma next week, and I'm scared because of the Roma fans I'm going to have to fly on Ryanair.

You are going to be in for a real shock there!

Is Ryanair that bad?

Ryanair is a normally efficient airline using newish airplanes that get you there on time more often than others. They have recently dialled back on the hard sell and petty regulations, so no more aggravating in those respects than others now. The risk you are taking is that if things go wrong, you are on your own.

If you want to go somewhere from Scotland or provincial England there is a high probability of Ryanair being the airline that takes you there. They're OK.

They HAD dialled back on stuff, but the past few months they introduced their new hand luggage limits. Anything over the size of a ladies hand bag now has to go in the hold...unless of course you pay for the old priority boarding.

All low cost airlines will take bags off you at the gate and put them into the hold if they don't have enough space in the overhead lockers so Ryanair's new policy isn't a big problem.

williamglenn said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

FF43 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Please pray for me.

I'm going to see Liverpool play Roma next week, and I'm scared because of the Roma fans I'm going to have to fly on Ryanair.

You are going to be in for a real shock there!

Is Ryanair that bad?

Ryanair is a normally efficient airline using newish airplanes that get you there on time more often than others. They have recently dialled back on the hard sell and petty regulations, so no more aggravating in those respects than others now. The risk you are taking is that if things go wrong, you are on your own.

If you want to go somewhere from Scotland or provincial England there is a high probability of Ryanair being the airline that takes you there. They're OK.

They HAD dialled back on stuff, but the past few months they introduced their new hand luggage limits. Anything over the size of a ladies hand bag now has to go in the hold...unless of course you pay for the old priority boarding.

All low cost airlines will take bags off you at the gate and put them into the hold if they don't have enough space in the overhead lockers so Ryanair's new policy isn't a big problem.

It is a big change for many that liked the fact they could get a couple of days worth of clothes and a laptop / ipad in a small backpack and whizz through the airport at both ends.

Stereotomy said:

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/apr/25/help-to-buy-agency-writes-down-loan-on-flat-over-grenfell-style-cladding

I know somebody who lives in one of these flats. I had no idea that some of them were losing 90% of their value though, that seems insane.

That figure might well be plucked out of thin air but if the market seizes up because no-one will lend against these flats, then who will buy them? How many buyers have half to a million pounds in cash and how many of those will want to take the risk they cannot sell later on? This is Major-era negative equity writ large. No-one can buy and no-one can afford to sell at artificially low prices.

Anorak said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

david_herdson said:

I know parliament has some odd practices but this seems a bit harsh.

https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/989109164772352002

Isn't that the sort of thing that normally only happens at top private schools?

I'm very sorry.
https://twitter.com/ScottMoffett01/status/989114170607128576

Where’s the ban hammer?

Anorak said:

I'm not sure that's quite right. Being a zionist is about supporting the right is Israel to exist as a political entity. It does not mean providing unequivocal support of Israeli government policy (which would in my opinion be daft).

The IHRA* definition of anti-semitism includes criticism of Israel as a Jewish state (i.e. the criticism is based on the race of the population, or treats it as a "jewish collective"), but excludes "criticism of Israel similar to that levelled against any other country".

There are definitely fuzzy areas and both 'sides' push the boundaries of the definition to serve their own ends.

* adopted by the UK

There definitely is a difficult line to draw around when criticism of Israel as a Jewish state becomes criticism of Judaism or Jews more generally, in part due to the inevitable question about what to do with Israel's Jewish majority if Israel were to be removed (i.e. if you view it's existence in anything like its present form to be an occupation which should be ended).

On the definition of zionism I broadly agree with you, I tried to make clear that zionism was originally and remains technically just supporting the existance of Israel - but I maintain that a second meaning of supporting the specific (current) Israel and its government has developed or is developing. This obviously leads to confusion, but I do think the word now has two slightly different meanings.

DecrepitJohnL said:

Stereotomy said:

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/apr/25/help-to-buy-agency-writes-down-loan-on-flat-over-grenfell-style-cladding

I know somebody who lives in one of these flats. I had no idea that some of them were losing 90% of their value though, that seems insane.

That figure might well be plucked out of thin air but if the market seizes up because no-one will lend against these flats, then who will buy them? How many buyers have half to a million pounds in cash and how many of those will want to take the risk they cannot sell later on? This is Major-era negative equity writ large. No-one can buy and no-one can afford to sell at artificially low prices.

Interestingly the flat my friend lives in is shared ownership. People there may only own a 25% stake, so in some circumstances they probably could afford to sell. And I think the HA is limited in their ability to set rent, so they may be forced to drop it.

Labour has officially deselected candidate Mandy Richards for the Worcester seat at the next general election, following a row over social media posts.

notme said:

Stereotomy said:

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/apr/25/help-to-buy-agency-writes-down-loan-on-flat-over-grenfell-style-cladding

I know somebody who lives in one of these flats. I had no idea that some of them were losing 90% of their value though, that seems insane.

But surely only flammable cladding was put on very poor high rise social housing blocks by champagne quaffing Tory councillors in order to exterminate the lower classes?

I expect property developers fall into the champagne-quaffing class as well. (British ones anyway: Trump is teetotal.)

Roger said:

Ishmael_Z said:

David_Evershed said:

David_Evershed said:

Can someone clarify please.

If you think that Jews should not occupy Israel that seems to make you anti Zionist.

And being anti Zionist seems to make you anti semitic.

Is this right?

The question is more complicated than I thought.

According to Wikipedia .............

Semites, Semitic people or Semitic cultures (from the biblical "Shem", Hebrew: שם‎) was a term for an ethnic, cultural or racial group who speak or spoke the Semitic languages

A DNA study of Jews and Palestinian Arabs (including Bedouins) found that these were more closely related to each other than to neighboring Arabs.

Genetic studies indicate that modern Jews (Ashkenazi, Sephardic and Mizrahi specifically), Levantine Arabs, Assyrians, Samaritans, Maronites, Druze, Mandaeans, and Mhallami, all have an ancient indigenous common Near Eastern heritage which can be genetically mapped back to the ancient Fertile Crescent, but often also display genetic profiles distinct from one another, indicating the different histories of these peoples.

Hence those racially against Palestinians are also anti semitic it seems.

True, but also a quibble (also a reason for thinking that "judeophobia" should be substituted for "anti-semitism.")

I think (but am willing to be corrected) that to be anti-Zionist is to be against Israeli expansionism and its methods of expanding. If you are against the existence of Israel at all you run in to the problem of what to do with all its citizens. Do you send them "home" bearing in mind there must be 4th and 5th generation Israel-born Jews there now? Or what?

Zionists believe Israel including Judea and Samaria (The West Bank and beyond) is the home of the Jewish people and they must therefore limit the gentiles who are allowed to live there as keeping it a majority Jewish state is fundamental. Thus the 'Right of Return' which gives all Jews the right to live in Israel is denied to all non Jews -even those born there-which is why some call it a racist/apartheid state

Could you just convert to Judaism while being of another race? How easy is that to do?

On topic, this asks the wrong question. The issue is whether the leader attracts more people who would *not otherwise* support the party than he or she repels *who would otherwise support the party*. I think TM is basically neutral on that - few people who don't rate the Tories vote Tory because they think May is super, few Tories refuse to turn out because they hate May. Corbyn attracts some people who haven't voted Labvour for a long time, and he repels people like Southam who have voted Labour all their lives.

I think that he pulls more than he repels, but the only evidence I can offer is the polling showing Labour doing worse with other leaders.

Anazina said:

Roger said:

Ishmael_Z said:

David_Evershed said:

David_Evershed said:

Can someone clarify please.

If you think that Jews should not occupy Israel that seems to make you anti Zionist.

And being anti Zionist seems to make you anti semitic.

Is this right?

The question is more complicated than I thought.

According to Wikipedia .............

Semites, Semitic people or Semitic cultures (from the biblical "Shem", Hebrew: שם‎) was a term for an ethnic, cultural or racial group who speak or spoke the Semitic languages

A DNA study of Jews and Palestinian Arabs (including Bedouins) found that these were more closely related to each other than to neighboring Arabs.

Genetic studies indicate that modern Jews (Ashkenazi, Sephardic and Mizrahi specifically), Levantine Arabs, Assyrians, Samaritans, Maronites, Druze, Mandaeans, and Mhallami, all have an ancient indigenous common Near Eastern heritage which can be genetically mapped back to the ancient Fertile Crescent, but often also display genetic profiles distinct from one another, indicating the different histories of these peoples.

Hence those racially against Palestinians are also anti semitic it seems.

True, but also a quibble (also a reason for thinking that "judeophobia" should be substituted for "anti-semitism.")

I think (but am willing to be corrected) that to be anti-Zionist is to be against Israeli expansionism and its methods of expanding. If you are against the existence of Israel at all you run in to the problem of what to do with all its citizens. Do you send them "home" bearing in mind there must be 4th and 5th generation Israel-born Jews there now? Or what?

Zionists believe Israel including Judea and Samaria (The West Bank and beyond) is the home of the Jewish people and they must therefore limit the gentiles who are allowed to live there as keeping it a majority Jewish state is fundamental. Thus the 'Right of Return' which gives all Jews the right to live in Israel is denied to all non Jews -even those born there-which is why some call it a racist/apartheid state

Could you just convert to Judaism while being of another race? How easy is that to do?

Simple enough for me due to 'medical reasons' as a child. Your mileage may vary.

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/independent/status/989106496754548737?s=21

That was a party political broadcast for the Customs Union.