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  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,128

    Can you paste the title of that FT article Foxy? That way I can search and see it (otherwise it's behind a paywall)
    UK home care industry ‘on the brink of collapse’, says report

  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223

    Losing in Algeria and Vietnam hasn't stopped France meddling in various countries.
    True, but they have wholly bought into the theory that being a part of the EU is the only way for them to lead a semi-independent existence in the world, rather than a satrapy of the US or pre 1989 the USSR. I think the failure of Suez and utter defeat in their colonial wars helped them reach that conclusion.
  • I do wonder why Corbyn had this meeting today just as the antisemitism story was beginning to die down. It just starts it going round again. His people's news management is shocking.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,128

    So what should be done ?
    And the light at the end of the tunnel is the oncoming demographic train:

    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/978302412363624448?s=19
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,356
    It was a Roma fan who was tooled up with a hammer....
  • ElliotElliot Posts: 1,516

    So what should be done ?
    Fund it better. It's a shame that the last attempt was so cynically exploited for political ends but we must keep trying. The NHS depends on it.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,417
    TOPPING said:

    Plus psychologists to determine when exactly Hitler went a bit mad.
    Only when he realised the ninth army would have to retreat.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,492
    GIN1138 said:

    Fascinating...
    Six minutes in for the big meeting:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjYxHpMX0KI
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,417
    While Labour tears itself to pieces over whether it supports anti-semites or not, Owen Jones continues to worry about how many journos went to private school.
  • ElliotElliot Posts: 1,516

    I do wonder why Corbyn had this meeting today just as the antisemitism story was beginning to die down. It just starts it going round again. His people's news management is shocking.

    Judging from the outcome of the meeting, Corbyn is now very consciously making a choice I always assumed was subconscious: he is willing to ally with anti-Semites as long as they are with him on being anti-Tory or anti-Western.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,831
    Macron and Donald love-in very funny on Newsnight.

    Meanwhile in the UK our grandstanding MP's, Lords and Speaker stand up and say they don't want a piece of filth like Donald in Westminster.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,128
    Elliot said:

    Fund it better. It's a shame that the last attempt was so cynically exploited for political ends but we must keep trying. The NHS depends on it.
    The problem is who should fund it, not that it should be funded. The private citizen or an arm of the State, via higher taxes.

    We want neither the moral hazard that punishes the thrifty for saving for their retirement, nor a system that means an extended stay in hospital saves the family a few thousand bob.

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,266
    Foxy said:

    UK home care industry ‘on the brink of collapse’, says report

    Thanks. Not sure why that works for FT articles but it does.

    On social care - proper funding required and taxation to back that up. No one wants to pay more tax but we're all going to have to.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,492
    RoyalBlue said:

    True, but they have wholly bought into the theory that being a part of the EU is the only way for them to lead a semi-independent existence in the world, rather than a satrapy of the US or pre 1989 the USSR. I think the failure of Suez and utter defeat in their colonial wars helped them reach that conclusion.
    The EEC was a coalition of the losers of 1914-1945 with France able to exploit Germany's guilt complex and division.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 83,356
    edited April 2018
    GIN1138 said:

    Macron and Donald love-in very funny on Newsnight.

    Meanwhile in the UK our grandstanding MP's, Lords and Speaker stand up and say they don't want a piece of filth like Donald in Westminster.

    And our media....if May even talks to Donald about anything it is a national disgrace, if Macron does it...well he is trying to bring Donald into the real world.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,266
    Foxy said:

    The problem is who should fund it, not that it should be funded. The private citizen or an arm of the State, via higher taxes.

    We want neither the moral hazard that punishes the thrifty for saving for their retirement, nor a system that means an extended stay in hospital saves the family a few thousand bob.

    You seem to have answered your own question - it has to be and arm of the State via higher taxes.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,492
    Foxy said:

    UK home care industry ‘on the brink of collapse’, says report

    Thanks.

    Although 13 months later it clearly hasn't yet collapsed even though there are serious issues.
  • RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223

    The EEC was a coalition of the losers of 1914-1945 with France able to exploit Germany's guilt complex and division.
    All Europe was the loser from 1914-1945. It was the deathknell for European world leadership.

    It’s true that we retained our honour and suffered less physical damage and casualties than other nations, but the economic foundations of our power were destroyed.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,128

    You seem to have answered your own question - it has to be and arm of the State via higher taxes.
    That is my conclusion. Others may differ.

    The other key is much more long term. We have to nudge our citizens into healthier lives, so that they have good health in retirement, can keep working in many jobs and have more disability free years. A sort of North Karelia Project, but nationwide.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/04/finlands-radical-heart-health-transformation/389766/
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,266
    RoyalBlue said:

    All Europe was the loser from 1914-1945. It was the deathknell for European world leadership.

    It’s true that we retained our honour and suffered less physical damage and casualties than other nations, but the economic foundations of our power were destroyed.
    Generally agree but I am not sure Britain suffered less physical damage than say France.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,831
    edited April 2018

    And our media....if May even talks to Donald about anything it is a national disgrace, if Macron does it...well he is trying to bring Donald into the real world.
    Well the media spin their nonsense endlessly anyway but the British political class and elites have gone mad since Brexit and Trump.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,128

    Thanks.

    Although 13 months later it clearly hasn't yet collapsed even though there are serious issues.
    like the NHS the trickle of money is keeping it stable, for now, albeit with increasing debts.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,492

    You seem to have answered your own question - it has to be and arm of the State via higher taxes.
    But who should pay the higher taxes ?

    I suspect most people think it should be 'people like them' and not 'people like me'.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,058

    I genuinely think he just doesn’t think there is really a problem stemming from seeing the Jews as not a poor underrepresented minority with no voice and of course he is no fan of Israel’s approach to dealing with their neighbours.
    I think that is right. Top of his personal agenda will be the homeless, the jobless, the poor, the ill, perhaps the Palestinians but not antisemitism. That will be low down on his agenda for the reasons you give.

    It is being forced onto his agenda by some who have it high in their own personal agenda and by some who think it will damage him.

    I think he is giving it too much attention. He should just move on and stick to his own agenda.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,266

    Thanks.

    Although 13 months later it clearly hasn't yet collapsed even though there are serious issues.
    Social care can't really be allowed to collapse since that would leave thousands dying uncared for, so it is presumably likely to remain on the brink of collapse until grown-up politicians agree a sensible way to fund it long-term. Unfortunately the (unecessary) distraction of Brexit is taking up all their energies at the moment.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,417
    Foxy said:

    That is my conclusion. Others may differ.

    The other key is much more long term. We have to nudge our citizens into healthier lives, so that they have good health in retirement, can keep working in many jobs and have more disability free years. A sort of North Karelia Project, but nationwide.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/04/finlands-radical-heart-health-transformation/389766/
    Happening for diabetes.

    I have been signed up:

    https://www.england.nhs.uk/diabetes/diabetes-prevention/roll-out-of-the-programme/
  • ElliotElliot Posts: 1,516
    Barnesian said:

    I think that is right. Top of his personal agenda will be the homeless, the jobless, the poor, the ill, perhaps the Palestinians but not antisemitism. That will be low down on his agenda for the reasons you give.

    It is being forced onto his agenda by some who have it high in their own personal agenda and by some who think it will damage him.

    I think he is giving it too much attention. He should just move on and stick to his own agenda.
    Or, you know, Jews genuinely concerned about attacks and an increasingly hostile environment. The Board of Deputies gave some very real and pratical steps Corbyn could take. That would end the issue. But Corbyn doesn't want to because he values anti-Semites like Hamas, Press TV, Ken Livinstone and others as valuable allies.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,492

    Generally agree but I am not sure Britain suffered less physical damage than say France.
    Some bombing doesn't equal being used as a battlefield.

    And France was bombed as well, by both sides.
  • ElliotElliot Posts: 1,516

    You seem to have answered your own question - it has to be and arm of the State via higher taxes.
    The best undertaxed source of wealth is property. We should start there.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,492
    RoyalBlue said:

    All Europe was the loser from 1914-1945. It was the deathknell for European world leadership.

    It’s true that we retained our honour and suffered less physical damage and casualties than other nations, but the economic foundations of our power were destroyed.
    The decline in British economic power was inevitable and had begun in the 19th century.

    We've been living for a long time from the benefits that the industrial revolution and winning the Seven Years War brought.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,413

    I do wonder why Corbyn had this meeting today just as the antisemitism story was beginning to die down. It just starts it going round again. His people's news management is shocking.

    I presume the date was set back when it was in the news more, not really possible to duck it.
  • Elliot said:

    Judging from the outcome of the meeting, Corbyn is now very consciously making a choice I always assumed was subconscious: he is willing to ally with anti-Semites as long as they are with him on being anti-Tory or anti-Western.
    There seems to be a view that, as Jewish people only count in a few constituencies, and most people probably do not feel strongly about the issue, then it is not going to turn votes.

    The problem is that parties are brands and Labour's core proposition is it is nice and cuddly. The polling is showing that image is ebbing and people are starting to think it has racist elements in it, as well as some loons. It is hard to get that back.

    Also, and the bigger problem is this story is unlikely to go away. Look at what the newspapers have done with YouTube over the past 18 months, hounding it over story after story. The same will happy with labour and for much the same reason - there is likely to be plenty of material out there and the newspapers smell blood.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,128

    Happening for diabetes.

    I have been signed up:

    https://www.england.nhs.uk/diabetes/diabetes-prevention/roll-out-of-the-programme/
    Good luck, and keep it up! preventing vascular damage is very worthwhile.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    But who should pay the higher taxes ?

    I suspect most people think it should be 'people like them' and not 'people like me'.
    Some people arrange their earnings to avoid paying more tax.

    Perhaps they could look at themselves first.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,266

    But who should pay the higher taxes ?

    I suspect most people think it should be 'people like them' and not 'people like me'.
    I would have thought most would accept that everyone has to pay a bit more. No one will like it but increasing proportions ot the population have first hand experience of their relatives suffering the effects of the current underfunding of social care.

    As an aside, I would move away from private provision towards direct state provision over time - private enterprise has failed miserably to provide social care efficiently and effectively. As AndyJS pointed out earlier "One of the problems is that care workers are badly paid but care home fees are mysteriously very high despite this."
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Elliot said:

    The best undertaxed source of wealth is property. We should start there.
    Indeed -- and there are other benefits.

    Property tax in New Jersey is substantially more than Council Tax in the UK. It depends on the County, but it is about 3 per cent.

    Average annual property tax in NJ is ~ 9000 dollars a year.

    That is a huge encouragement to downsize once your children leave home & your house is too big for you.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,058
    Elliot said:

    Or, you know, Jews genuinely concerned about attacks and an increasingly hostile environment. The Board of Deputies gave some very real and pratical steps Corbyn could take. That would end the issue. But Corbyn doesn't want to because he values anti-Semites like Hamas, Press TV, Ken Livinstone and others as valuable allies.
    Sorry. I think your last sentence is total garbage. There is a growing hostile environment for many groups including Jews, made easier by social media, but also sometimes spilling onto the streets, and it is not restricted to one particular political party. Dealing with it is primarily a police matter but leaders have a responsibility too in influencing the culture. There needs to be more tolerance and less ad hominem attacks. Corbyn is a role model in this respect.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,492
    Elliot said:

    The best undertaxed source of wealth is property. We should start there.
    You could make it specific to oldies and call it something like a Dementia Tax.

    Or concentrate on multi-million mansions and have Baroness Bakewell complaining:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/property/9123806/After-40-years-why-should-I-be-forced-to-sell-my-property.html
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,417
    Foxy said:

    Good luck, and keep it up! preventing vascular damage is very worthwhile.
    To be honest, the monthly sessions can be a bit tedious - they last 90 mins, way too long - but the repeated focus is good.

    (He says with a glass of wine in one hand...)
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,266

    Some bombing doesn't equal being used as a battlefield.

    And France was bombed as well, by both sides.
    Maybe you're right, I wasn't there. (Or here for that matter, although growing up in Hastings in the 60s I was very well acquainted with bombsites - there were a lot!)
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 43,223

    Generally agree but I am not sure Britain suffered less physical damage than say France.
    I believe Allied bombing killed more French folk than the Blitz did Brits.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Barnesian said:

    Sorry. I think your last sentence is total garbage. There is a growing hostile environment for many groups including Jews, made easier by social media, but also sometimes spilling onto the streets, and it is not restricted to one particular political party. Dealing with it is primarily a police matter but leaders have a responsibility too in influencing the culture. There needs to be more tolerance and less ad hominem attacks. Corbyn is a role model in this respect.
    unspoofable
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 27,492

    I would have thought most would accept that everyone has to pay a bit more. No one will like it but increasing proportions ot the population have first hand experience of their relatives suffering the effects of the current underfunding of social care.

    As an aside, I would move away from private provision towards direct state provision over time - private enterprise has failed miserably to provide social care efficiently and effectively. As AndyJS pointed out earlier "One of the problems is that care workers are badly paid but care home fees are mysteriously very high despite this."
    From the Joan Bakewell mansion article I've just linked to:

    ' I am all for taxing the rich more. I believe the less well-off are carrying too much of the burden of current austerity. But '

    There's always a 'but'.

    People are all for more tax being paid BUT preferably by other people.

    Alternatively they're all for other types of spending being cut to fund more of the spending they like BUT getting everyone to agree on which other types of spending to cut is the tricky bit.
  • Wing nut in chief mentioned in dispatches there.... He flies ever closer to the sun..
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,022

    It was a Roma fan who was tooled up with a hammer....

    When in Liverpool....

    That's a joke before anyone jumps on me. I'm a fan too. The best thing for our health would be to stop conceding late goals.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Barnesian said:

    Sorry. I think your last sentence is total garbage. There is a growing hostile environment for many groups including Jews, made easier by social media, but also sometimes spilling onto the streets, and it is not restricted to one particular political party. Dealing with it is primarily a police matter but leaders have a responsibility too in influencing the culture. There needs to be more tolerance and less ad hominem attacks. Corbyn is a role model in this respect.
    If someone told me that was a translation from German dating from the early 1930s I would have no trouble believing it.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,266

    I believe Allied bombing killed more French folk than the Blitz did Brits.
    A quick look at Wikipedia seems to support your view and @another_richard's. I am genuinely surprised but yet another example of something new I have learnt from PB.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties

    (The military casualty totals for Germany are astonishingly high but the one that really hits you is the civilian number for Poland... largely due to the Holocaust, whose horrors can never be overstated.)
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,058
    Floater said:

    unspoofable
    Which particular statement(s) do you disagree with? I've made it easier for you.

    There is a growing hostile environment for many groups including Jews.
    It is made easier by social media, but also sometimes spills onto the streets.
    It is not restricted to one particular political party.
    Dealing with it is primarily a police matter.
    Leaders have a responsibility too in influencing the culture.
    There needs to be more tolerance and less ad hominem attacks.
    Corbyn is a role model in this respect.

    Typing "unspoofable" is just lazy.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,058
    Ishmael_Z said:

    If someone told me that was a translation from German dating from the early 1930s I would have no trouble believing it.
    That's a bit offensive actually. Which statements do you disagree with?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822

    So what should be done ?
    Integrate the NHS and social care budgets. As things are currently set up (except in a few areas), there is a perverse incentive to keep people who are blocking beds in hospital. That is because the budgets are separate; the local authority, already stretched, doesn't want to or can't afford to provide suitable care outside the hospital, because it's yet another hit on their budget. So the old person who needs care is stuck in hospital, at much greater overall cost, and at risk to their own health.

    I think Jeremy Hunt gets this, but there's a lot of organisation and political inertia.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,878

    Apologies, put this right at the end of the previous thread but in case anyone is interested in the US elections.

    I spent some time in California two weeks ago. To put in context, my wife is from Los Angeles and we visit twice a year to visit her family who are staunch Democrats. I have been making that trip for over 20 years.

    I have to say that, obvious though it sounds, this was the most polarised I have ever seen both the TV and national news. You could take the same information and both sides will give you diametrically opposing interpretations. Neither side had much good to say about the other.

    One thing about the whole Mueller investigation that has not had much reporting over here is that, for Republicans and the Trump fans, the real story about Mueller is not about Russian collaboration but how the evidence allegedly points to the "Deep State" trying to overthrow Trump and how the Obama administration used the FBI and CIA to hand victory to Clinton and then tried to overthrow Trump when he won. That is energising the Republican base in favour of Trump.

    Two US betting implications I thought of.

    1. I think Republican turnout will be high. The consensus view is that there will be a blue wave but, apart from the generic Congress polls have been tightening, the Trump fan base looks very incentivised to come out and vote to defend their man. I don't know whether the Arizona 8th voting is a sign of that given the early trends.

    2. I don't for the life of me see how Democrat senators in places like West Virginia, Montana, Indiana or Missouri are going to survive. Regardless of how good or popular they are, people are just taking sides and saying you are either with us or against us. I am sure someone will produce a poll saying Democrat senators are hanging on in places like that but I really do not see it. The mood has just become so polarised that people are not going to cross-vote

    Trumpites will turn out for Trump, not GOP Congressmen and women
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Barnesian said:

    Which particular statement(s) do you disagree with? I've made it easier for you.

    There is a growing hostile environment for many groups including Jews.
    It is made easier by social media, but also sometimes spills onto the streets.
    It is not restricted to one particular political party.
    Dealing with it is primarily a police matter.
    Leaders have a responsibility too in influencing the culture.
    There needs to be more tolerance and less ad hominem attacks.
    Corbyn is a role model in this respect.

    Typing "unspoofable" is just lazy.
    Explain to me how Corbyn as leader of todays Labour party is a role model.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,878
    edited April 2018
    If he is heading for government Corbyn at least needs to come close to the 13% lead Cameron got in 2006 or the 8% lead John Smith got in 1993 in the first local elections of the Parliament which led up to the general election which returned their parties to power
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Fair t osay Labour against Anti Semitism less than impressed with the absolute boy / tireless fighter against anti semitism.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/LabourAgainstAS/status/988881364693979137
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Jeremy Corbyn mouths the words. He's theoretically against all forms of racism. He's theoretically against anti-semitism. I'm pretty sure that he's quite sincere in this, and honestly believes that because he puts his name to articles condemning anti-semitism (no doubt written for him), he therefore is a campaigner against all forms of racism including anti-semitism.

    But, as the saying goes, fine words butter no parsnips.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,058
    Floater said:

    Explain to me how Corbyn as leader of todays Labour party is a role model.

    Ah - so that was what you objected to. Corbyn never stoops to personal abuse and is always polite. I think that was part of his attraction at the last GE. Rees-Mogg is similar in that respect (only!).
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited April 2018
    Barnesian said:

    ...
    It is not restricted to one particular political party.
    ....

    Actually, it is, pretty much. Certainly only one political party has the problem right at the top, and doesn't deal with it.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Jeremy Corbyn mouths the words. He's theoretically against all forms of racism. He's theoretically against anti-semitism. I'm pretty sure that he's quite sincere in this, and honestly believes that because he puts his name to articles condemning anti-semitism (no doubt written for him), he therefore is a campaigner against all forms of racism including anti-semitism.

    But, as the saying goes, fine words butter no parsnips.

    The man and the crowd he runs with are dangerous.

  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Barnesian said:

    Ah - so that was what you objected to. Corbyn never stoops to personal abuse and is always polite. I think that was part of his attraction at the last GE. Rees-Mogg is similar in that respect (only!).
    Oh - your entire post was crap from start to finish

    But we have to start somewhere.

    Explain to us how Jeremy Corbyn is a role model for the fight against anti semitism.

    It's almost like you have been sitting there hearing nothing, seeing nothing

    He is presiding over a pile of filth - and it's getting worse.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited April 2018
    Floater said:

    The man and the crowd he runs with are dangerous.

    Of course. Because once you start along the route of raging against shadowy wealthy elites, you're only one step away from raging against shadowy wealthy Jews, as we saw in in the 1930s. And when you start from a position of default anti-Americanism, you're only one step away from allying yourself with some very disagreeable groups who are rabidly anti-American.

    Corbyn's message, for all his mild manners, is hate.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Barnesian said:

    From your own post

    Dealing with it is primarily a police matter but leaders have a responsibility too in influencing the culture.

    What has he done to influence the culture within Labour?

    Is it just a coincidence that things have gone downhill fast under Corbyn?

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,878
    Elliot said:

    The best undertaxed source of wealth is property. We should start there.
    National Insurance is what should fund increased social care costs, the clue is in the title
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,878

    Indeed -- and there are other benefits.

    Property tax in New Jersey is substantially more than Council Tax in the UK. It depends on the County, but it is about 3 per cent.

    Average annual property tax in NJ is ~ 9000 dollars a year.

    That is a huge encouragement to downsize once your children leave home & your house is too big for you.
    In Alabama and Hawaii by contrast it is less than 1%
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,243
    Foxy said:

    That is my conclusion. Others may differ.

    The other key is much more long term. We have to nudge our citizens into healthier lives, so that they have good health in retirement, can keep working in many jobs and have more disability free years. A sort of North Karelia Project, but nationwide.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/04/finlands-radical-heart-health-transformation/389766/
    Surely it would be cheaper to encourage the old to take up more dangerous pursuits: motor racing, sky diving, smoking, drinking and drugs.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited April 2018
    Does anyone else see the connection between the fact that for instance we don't have to show ID to vote in elections in the UK and the Windrush debacle? I think there is one, which is that we've always been a country that hates forcing people to carry documents proving who they are. But that mean when people suddenly do need documents they quite often don't have them. If we'd always been a country obsessed with ID the Windrush debacle couldn't have happened. I love the fact that I can show up at my local polling station without even a polling card and I get issued with a ballot paper as if that were the most normal thing in the world. In Boston, MA I couldn't even buy a local train ticket for a 30 minute journey without showing ID.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    Indeed -- and there are other benefits.

    Property tax in New Jersey is substantially more than Council Tax in the UK. It depends on the County, but it is about 3 per cent.

    Average annual property tax in NJ is ~ 9000 dollars a year.

    That is a huge encouragement to downsize once your children leave home & your house is too big for you.
    Here in Westchester County, NY, which has the highest property taxes in the whole USA, we pay $13,000 p.a. in taxes to our village, town (including precept to the county) and school board. It would be nearer $17,000 but we were able to get a lower valuation accepted by the village.

    Part of the reason taxes are so high here in NYS is because we’re the only state that funds Medicaid (the health care safety net for very low-income people) at county level. However perhaps the real reason is that Americans really like their local government to be local; no-one would stand for organizing it by central diktat like in the UK, and no-one cares about economies of scale; we are served by a village, a town and a county police department (and the county has additional sheriff’s department) all paid for out of property tax. We have a volunteer fire department, which in theory should save money, but we have four separate appliances for a population of just 11,000!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,243
    Republicans hold on (at a canter) in Arizona, apparently.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,716
    AndyJS said:

    Does anyone else see the connection between the fact that for instance we don't have to show ID to vote in elections in the UK and the Windrush debacle? I think there is one, which is that we've always been a country that hates forcing people to carry documents proving who they are. But that mean when people suddenly do need documents they quite often don't have them. If we'd always been a country obsessed with ID the Windrush debacle couldn't have happened. I love the fact that I can show up at my local polling station without even a polling card and I get issued with a ballot paper as if that were the most normal thing in the world. In Boston, MA I couldn't even buy a local train ticket for a 30 minute journey without showing ID.

    Not really, the policy was to kick people out or make them leave to hit the targets, so if there had been an ID system they'd have found some way to exploit it to kick people out or make them leave.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 76,479
    Barnesian said:

    Ah - so that was what you objected to. Corbyn never stoops to personal abuse and is always polite. I think that was part of his attraction at the last GE. Rees-Mogg is similar in that respect (only!).
    “Always polite”....
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43878356
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    kle4 said:

    I had a very very similar conversation today with a colleague. Social care seems to be in a very bad way, and it is an area I'd truly hope the parties could get together on. Alas.
    I’ve ranted about this before, but you need to completely restructure the NHS.

    The needs of long term chronic care are very different to A&E, acute care, specialty medicines etc.

    DGHs are a 1950s solution to deal with a 1970s problem. But no politicians wins from “closing our local hospital” so it will never happen
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Barnesian said:

    I think that is right. Top of his personal agenda will be the homeless, the jobless, the poor, the ill, perhaps the Palestinians but not antisemitism. That will be low down on his agenda for the reasons you give.

    It is being forced onto his agenda by some who have it high in their own personal agenda and by some who think it will damage him.

    I think he is giving it too much attention. He should just move on and stick to his own agenda.
    Just to be clear: you don’t think Labour should address the evil of anti-semitism that is infecting it?

    I will be charitable and assume that is a Lib Dem giving “helpful” advice to a rival party

    Otherwise...sheesh (shakes head)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    This is going to confuse people: in Eastleigh, Hampshire, the local Lib Dem council leader is in favour of a new development of 5,000 houses.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/news/article-5653313/Its-Nimbys-vs-Yimbys-New-people-saying-Yes-yard.html
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,243
    Sandpit said:

    This is going to confuse people: in Eastleigh, Hampshire, the local Lib Dem council leader is in favour of a new development of 5,000 houses.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/news/article-5653313/Its-Nimbys-vs-Yimbys-New-people-saying-Yes-yard.html

    Fake news.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,204
    HYUFD said:

    In Alabama and Hawaii by contrast it is less than 1%
    My previous council tax was around 1.3%, current is 0.75% or so.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,080
    UK said farewell to 4,000 nurses and midwives from European Economic Area in past year, with only 800 arriving
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,204
    edited April 2018
    Sandpit said:

    This is going to confuse people: in Eastleigh, Hampshire, the local Lib Dem council leader is in favour of a new development of 5,000 houses.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/news/article-5653313/Its-Nimbys-vs-Yimbys-New-people-saying-Yes-yard.html

    IanB2 said:

    UK said farewell to 4,000 nurses and midwives from European Economic Area in past year, with only 800 arriving

    Well who needs all the houses then ?

    I think town and city centres are going to be utterly kaiboshed in terms of shops shortly, I can't remember the last time I went into Sheffield City Centre (Or Rotherham, or Coventry) to buy ANYTHING.
    Maybe we should stick the houses there instead
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 59,243
    Pulpstar said:

    Well who needs all the houses then ?

    I think town and city centres are going to be utterly kaiboshed in terms of shops shortly, I can't remember the last time I went into Sheffield City Centre (Or Rotherham, or Coventry) to buy ANYTHING.
    Maybe we should stick the houses there instead
    Rents for restaurants and bars will decline, as demand from traditional retail falls.

    Sell over leveraged owners of retail property, buy those who benefit from falling rents.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,128
    IanB2 said:

    UK said farewell to 4,000 nurses and midwives from European Economic Area in past year, with only 800 arriving

    This is a succes.

    The purpose of Brexit was to reduce net immigration and increase upward pressure on wages for strurdy British Yeomen like my good self,
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,204
    edited April 2018

    Indeed -- and there are other benefits.

    Property tax in New Jersey is substantially more than Council Tax in the UK. It depends on the County, but it is about 3 per cent.

    Average annual property tax in NJ is ~ 9000 dollars a year.

    That is a huge encouragement to downsize once your children leave home & your house is too big for you.
    http://www.nj.com/business/index.ssf/2012/08/the_demand_for_over-sized_home.html

    Houses in New Jersey seem to be much bigger than UK ones, the average new build 'family home' contains around the same 1100 sq foot as he was saying was too small for his family.
    The biggest problem here is property is listed first by bedroom, then area. What matters is floorspace more than a tiny box room imo...

    Further, 3000+ sq ft is probably a bit excessive for a couple but I don't think a good size UK 4 bed of ~ 1500-1600 sq ft is
  • RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679

    I do wonder why Corbyn had this meeting today just as the antisemitism story was beginning to die down. It just starts it going round again. His people's news management is shocking.


    Refusing to see them would have been better news management? Short of getting an endorsement from a numinous voice emanating from a burning bush his enemies are going to carry on portraying Corbyn as an anti-semite regardless.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 73,350
    Barnesian said:

    Ah - so that was what you objected to. Corbyn never stoops to personal abuse and is always polite. I think that was part of his attraction at the last GE. Rees-Mogg is similar in that respect (only!).

    A man who called the Chancellor of the Exchequer 'uncaring and uncouth' in a budget response last year never resorts to personal attacks?

    Or a man who called the PM 'cretinous' is similar?

    It's a view I suppose...
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,513
    Pulpstar said:

    Well who needs all the houses then ?

    I think town and city centres are going to be utterly kaiboshed in terms of shops shortly, I can't remember the last time I went into Sheffield City Centre (Or Rotherham, or Coventry) to buy ANYTHING.
    Maybe we should stick the houses there instead
    That's starting to happen in New Croydon Woking.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 51,128
    Pulpstar said:

    http://www.nj.com/business/index.ssf/2012/08/the_demand_for_over-sized_home.html

    Houses in New Jersey seem to be much bigger than UK ones, the average new build 'family home' contains around the same 1100 sq foot as he was saying was too small for his family.
    The biggest problem here is property is listed first by bedroom, then area. What matters is floorspace more than a tiny box room imo...

    Further, 3000+ sq ft is probably a bit excessive for a couple but I don't think a good size UK 4 bed of ~ 1500-1600 sq ft is
    Not just in the USA, but also in continental Europe, property is advertised by floor area, while in Britain it is often ignored. Compared with other countries British houses are poky and on very small plots of land, so not attractive to downsizing, though council and inheritance taxes that are designed to favour under occupancy of bigger houses plays a part. Additionally there is the problem of baby boomers being the first consumerist generation. We simply have too much stuff to easily downsize.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    FPT:

    Your 'evidence' appears to be unqueried anecdotes from people with a vested interest reported in biased newspapers.

    Have you looked for a 'primary source document' to back your 'evidence' up ?

    Have you 'tried to get context' ?

    Have you been 'especially sceptical of information that produces a strong emotional response from you.' ?

    Have you 'asked yourself who wants to produce that response' ?
    When a variety of named farmers assert, when it is not obviously in their interests to do so, that they have had crops that they have been unable to pick because of labour shortages, including details of the specific crops and the quantities lost, I believe them. No, I don’t go around conducting personal inspections. Your one attempt at this was to report from observation that there were no obvious agricultural labour shortages in December - hardly a surprise.

    The government, which presumably does conduct check-ups, seems to accept what the farmers are telling them. You seem to be determined, in the face of abundant different sources, to disbelieve them. Sometimes determined incredulity can be more irrational than taking numerous different reports at face value.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 10,029
    rcs1000 said:

    Republicans hold on (at a canter) in Arizona, apparently.

    538 says
    "Based on FiveThirtyEight partisan lean, an 8-point Lesko win would be exactly in line with past special-election results that have pointed to a Democratic wave. If, however, Lesko wins by a margin in the teens — thus holding Democratic overperformance to 12 points or fewer — then perhaps special-election results are beginning to come into agreement with the tightening generic ballot polls; maybe Democrats’ position truly is eroding. Or maybe not — it’s just one data point."

    Results so far Rep 52.5%, Dem 47.4%, so Dem wave still on the cards?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,204
    Foxy said:

    Not just in the USA, but also in continental Europe, property is advertised by floor area, while in Britain it is often ignored. Compared with other countries British houses are poky and on very small plots of land, so not attractive to downsizing, though council and inheritance taxes that are designed to favour under occupancy of bigger houses plays a part. Additionally there is the problem of baby boomers being the first consumerist generation. We simply have too much stuff to easily downsize.
    Our current housing stock isn't great, and what's being built is getting worse no matter how well you photo 3/4 size furniture.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,139
    Pulpstar said:

    Well who needs all the houses then ?

    I think town and city centres are going to be utterly kaiboshed in terms of shops shortly, I can't remember the last time I went into Sheffield City Centre (Or Rotherham, or Coventry) to buy ANYTHING.
    Maybe we should stick the houses there instead
    There was an excellent greengrocer in my high street that closed 6 weeks ago. They cited high rents, rates and the fact most people were elderly spending only a fiver, and their online business is where the growth is.

    Trouble is my wife and I really liked going in there on a Saturday morning to stock up on fruit and veg for the week (the only time we can) and we don’t like ordering fruit and veg we can’t see/inspect online several days in advance, and booking a delivery slot.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,453
    Good morning, everyone.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Foxy said:

    Not just in the USA, but also in continental Europe, property is advertised by floor area, while in Britain it is often ignored. Compared with other countries British houses are poky and on very small plots of land, so not attractive to downsizing, though council and inheritance taxes that are designed to favour under occupancy of bigger houses plays a part. Additionally there is the problem of baby boomers being the first consumerist generation. We simply have too much stuff to easily downsize.
    The number one thing I have picked up from buying property in Hungary is to concentrate on the price per square metre. It’s served me very well recently.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,139
    AndyJS said:

    Does anyone else see the connection between the fact that for instance we don't have to show ID to vote in elections in the UK and the Windrush debacle? I think there is one, which is that we've always been a country that hates forcing people to carry documents proving who they are. But that mean when people suddenly do need documents they quite often don't have them. If we'd always been a country obsessed with ID the Windrush debacle couldn't have happened. I love the fact that I can show up at my local polling station without even a polling card and I get issued with a ballot paper as if that were the most normal thing in the world. In Boston, MA I couldn't even buy a local train ticket for a 30 minute journey without showing ID.

    I almost always carry around my photocard driving licence around with me. But, if carrying such identification at all times was mandatory, i would resent it and almost certainly regularly leave it at home on principle.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    HYUFD said:

    Trumpites will turn out for Trump, not GOP Congressmen and women
    We often disagree on American politics analysis but this is gold.

    The special election results have been terrible for the Republicans, special election results are a decent indicator of the coming mid term.

    The generic ballott result is terrible for republicans, the generic ballot is a decent indicator for the mid terms.

    And finally, Trump's approval rating is appalling and once again that is a decent indicator for the mid terms.

    To buck this trend would be something spectacular.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,139

    Maybe you're right, I wasn't there. (Or here for that matter, although growing up in Hastings in the 60s I was very well acquainted with bombsites - there were a lot!)
    Northern France was devastated by bombing and heavy fighting in WWII.

    The UK suffered nasty night-time area bombing of its major cities during the Blitz, diminishing thereafter, but never had to accommodate Operation Overload, or panzer divisions or artillery occupying and shelling its towns or channel ports, with allied air forces regularly attacking them on top, in and amongst homes and buildings.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    rcs1000 said:

    Republicans hold on (at a canter) in Arizona, apparently.

    Up to a point.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,139
    Foxy said:

  • Morning all.
    Feel like I'm missing all the excitement as Hertsmere has no local elections this year.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 34,530
    Foxy said:

    This is a succes.

    The purpose of Brexit was to reduce net immigration and increase upward pressure on wages for strurdy British Yeomen like my good self,
    LOL, but, although It’s quite a while now now since I worked in a hospital, I didn’t think that doctors wages were in any way related to those of nurses!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,139
    Pulpstar said:

    http://www.nj.com/business/index.ssf/2012/08/the_demand_for_over-sized_home.html

    Houses in New Jersey seem to be much bigger than UK ones, the average new build 'family home' contains around the same 1100 sq foot as he was saying was too small for his family.
    The biggest problem here is property is listed first by bedroom, then area. What matters is floorspace more than a tiny box room imo...

    Further, 3000+ sq ft is probably a bit excessive for a couple but I don't think a good size UK 4 bed of ~ 1500-1600 sq ft is
    New homes also suffer from poor storage. Many seem to have done away with lofts.

    Most people aspire to own a 4-bed detached home, so that’s the game developers play on the open market for sales/profit within those rules, and only those rules.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 62,139
    rcs1000 said:

    Rents for restaurants and bars will decline, as demand from traditional retail falls.

    Sell over leveraged owners of retail property, buy those who benefit from falling rents.

    Coffee shops and hairdressers are booming.

    Other than that it’s betting shops (high profit) and charity shops (no rates) that seem to dominate, with the odd chain convenience store on top.
This discussion has been closed.