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They'd need numbers (enough to become HM's Opposition overnight), money and a leader. Not impossible, but certainly difficult.Big_G_NorthWales said:
There were 172 rebels at one time and there are 80 plus committed remain labour MP's. 42 signed the letter to Corbyn protesting over anti semetic issues so it does not take a lot of imagination that if there are 50 who absolutely leave that number could grow in excess of 100TheJezziah said:
I don't think they could call themselves that, can't remember where I read it but there is something about similar names not being allowed. They could use the name Progress or something. Trouble is I think they struggle to get north of 50 MPs, be enough to replace the SNP as the 3rd party though. At least until an election.rottenborough said:Message to Labour MPs:
"the last remaining option is to remove Corbyn and his acolytes the only way you can: by forming a new parliamentary grouping, the Progressive Labour Party. Sign up enough MPs to dwarf the SNP and you’ll get some short money to tide you over until private donors can be tapped."
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/03/the-question-labour-moderates-must-ask-themselves/0 -
Again I agree. It is all very uncertain for labour thoughTheJezziah said:
A leader is probably one of the important factors as you somewhat allude to with Macron, I think a lot of the talk about David Miliband coming back was due to the lack of good leaders for the centre faction. They need something about them to avoid the same trap the Lib Dems fell into at the last election, stopping Brexit alone seems a tricky one as Corbyn is popular in many of the places remain did best.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You make good points but if the split happens it needs to be sufficient to be credible and with a leader who could provide a 'Macron' effect and attract substantial sponsorship to allow it to establish itself before the next election circa 2022.TheJezziah said:Big_G_NorthWales said:TheJezziah said:Message to Labour MPs:
"the last remaining option is to remove Corbyn and his acolytes the only way you can: by forming a new parliamentary grouping, the Progressive Labour Party. Sign up enough MPs to dwarf the SNP and you’ll get some short money to tide you over until private donors can be tapped."
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/03/the-question-labour-moderates-must-ask-themselves/
It does seem unlikely but each day seems to be a bad news day, especially for Corbyn, and the media seem to be in full pursuit
It isn't impossible but I think events would need to really play in the central factions favour and a leader emerges from among them that could get serious traction with the public.0 -
Well, it seems there was an attempt to give him a free pass.TheJezziah said:
I think he was looking for the ones being given a free pass for it.TheScreamingEagles said:
Alan Bull for starters, prospective Labour councillor.Yorkcity said:
Who is denying the Holocaust ? I wish someone would name them, their position , then surely it could be dealt with with If they are members of the party , they should be thrown out.Cyclefree said:A few comments on Corbyn:-
1. When Corbyn first became a candidate for leader, quite a few raised concerns for precisely the reasons which have become evident in recent days - and were roundly poo-poohed. We were told not to be silly and that Corbyn could not be blamed for whom he happened to be standing next to. Well, as we’ve seen (and as some of us said at the time) he did not “happen” to stand by these people. He chose to do so.
2. The risks for Labour now are two-fold:-
- that more is uncovered which relates to Corbyn directly: what he may have said or done in the past.
- that there is some violence or atrocity and that there are not many degrees of separation between the perpetrators and the Labour leadership. I fervently hope this does not happen.
It is sad, very sad, that Labour should have come to this.
What is also very worrying that some should be sanguine at the prospect of Holocaust deniers being given a free pass. Quite apart from questions of moral decency, these are people who deny facts - provable facts - and to have such people anywhere near public policy is very worrying.
http://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/labour-alan-bull-council-holocaust-hoax/
It is because of this Christine Shawcroft had to resign.0 -
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"while he sorts out the mess"Big_G_NorthWales said:
There has to be an irony in that Corbyn has set so much store on social media but it is now devouring himSandpit said:
Looks like he’s made the whole thing private while he sorts out the mess. Sensible idea, albeit long overdue.rottenborough said:
That's a euphemism for airbrushing his own history, right?0 -
Isn't the trouble not that such a figure isn't what the doctor ordered, but they don't appear to be waiting the wings, unless they're still unknown? Dan Jarvis seemed to be touted as that a couple of years ago, but tbh I still don't know what his plan fior govenment might be and I'm reasonably interested in politics (& of course he's going off a-mayoring anyway).SandyRentool said:
Liz Kendall got the support of under 5% of the 2015 membership. A Blairite candidate would barely trouble the scorers these days.TheJezziah said:
A leader is probably one of the important factors as you somewhat allude to with Macron, I think a lot of the talk about David Miliband coming back was due to the lack of good leaders for the centre faction. They need something about them to avoid the same trap the Lib Dems fell into at the last election, stopping Brexit alone seems a tricky one as Corbyn is popular in many of the places remain did best.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You make good points but if the split happens it needs to be sufficient to be credible and with a leader who could provide a 'Macron' effect and attract substantial sponsorship to allow it to establish itself before the next election circa 2022.TheJezziah said:Big_G_NorthWales said:TheJezziah said:Message to Labour MPs:
"the last remaining option is to remove Corbyn and his acolytes the only way you can: by forming a new parliamentary grouping, the Progressive Labour Party. Sign up enough MPs to dwarf the SNP and you’ll get some short money to tide you over until private donors can be tapped."
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/03/the-question-labour-moderates-must-ask-themselves/
It does seem unlikely but each day seems to be a bad news day, especially for Corbyn, and the media seem to be in full pursuit
It isn't impossible but I think events would need to really play in the central factions favour and a leader emerges from among them that could get serious traction with the public.
My hope is that the next leader will be a unifying figure from the soft left with charisma, dynamism and a plan for government.0 -
Labour, 2018. Beyond belief in a modern democracy. We are headed to Trumpsville, as someone pointed out earlier:
https://twitter.com/JenWilliamsMEN/status/9803766351228231680 -
You last sentence sums up the position. I suppose it is a question of 'watch this space'logical_song said:
They'd need numbers (enough to become HM's Opposition overnight), money and a leader. Not impossible, but certainly difficult.Big_G_NorthWales said:
There were 172 rebels at one time and there are 80 plus committed remain labour MP's. 42 signed the letter to Corbyn protesting over anti semetic issues so it does not take a lot of imagination that if there are 50 who absolutely leave that number could grow in excess of 100TheJezziah said:
I don't think they could call themselves that, can't remember where I read it but there is something about similar names not being allowed. They could use the name Progress or something. Trouble is I think they struggle to get north of 50 MPs, be enough to replace the SNP as the 3rd party though. At least until an election.rottenborough said:Message to Labour MPs:
"the last remaining option is to remove Corbyn and his acolytes the only way you can: by forming a new parliamentary grouping, the Progressive Labour Party. Sign up enough MPs to dwarf the SNP and you’ll get some short money to tide you over until private donors can be tapped."
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/03/the-question-labour-moderates-must-ask-themselves/0 -
Floater said:
There is an irony there.rottenborough said:
This comment of his is typical: "With solidarity we'll defeat the haters."oxfordsimon said:
Williamson is a ridiculously offensive waste of bandwidthrottenborough said:
cult members.oxfordsimon said:
Does anyone actually read skwarkbox and believe anything they print?Yorkcity said:https://skwawkbox.org/2018/04/01/times-claims-19-lab-members-recognise-antisemitism-their-own-numbers-say-96/ 77% according to this , think the extent of anti semitism is been deliberately exaggerated to damage Corbyn and stifle critism of the state of Israel.They are quoting Sam Coates of the times and you gov.
Edit: To take one example:
https://twitter.com/DerbyChrisW/status/980374043395272704
Haters being anyone who doesn't actually agree that Jezza is the second coming.
Just look at the hatred they unleash on line on opponents.
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Just noticed that we've got a presidential election going on today...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-43610095
Name recognition will be key.
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One of the worst things for a party's electoral chances is a stream of news over time that creates a seep in effect amongst the public. Be it division, incompetence, vested interests or indeed dodgy extremism.
Labour either gets a grip of its David Koresh of a leader who just doesn't seem to be able to help himself or it finds a that seep in effect will apply to it.0 -
Senior Labour source on aides being in dodgy FB groups:
"On Facebook you can be added to a group without your knowledge. That happens quite often." (Observer)
As I understand it you will be sent a notification by FB. So these aides claiming they knew nothing about joining these groups is potentially a bit iffy.0 -
Not really, as instead they veered into weakened indecision on everything. Personally I thought the best outcome was, as it was before, a small,not comfortable Tory majority. They would know they have to be careful, couldn't take support for granted, but had numbers to get by day to day.Yorkcity said:
Yes very true , they nearly crapped themselves when that exit poll came out.However in my opinion it was the best result , as it knocked them out of their complacent stupor.The_Apocalypse said:
This site was literally in celebration mode in September 2015 when he won. We knew how problematic Corbyn was even back then, the difference is Tories on this site thought he guaranteed them years in power so were happy for him to be leader. Now we know that Corbyn could win in 2022 and it’s a different story.Yorkcity said:
You are correct there was many conservatives on here , celebrating when he was first elected Labour leader, whatever they say now.TheJezziah said:
I think Labour members went for a mix of the left wing candidate and the one who presented a vision. If I remember rightly the Tories were quite happy with the choice of Corbyn and a few joined to vote for him as well. To say he was picked to wind Tories up or for his hatred of Tories is pretty much a complete rewriting of history.Elliot said:
Labour have had the same problem as the Republicans. They became so disillusioned in opposition they backed whoever was most anti-their enemy regardless of the magnitude of his flaws.Cyclefree said:A few comments on Corbyn:-
1. When Corbyn first became a candidate for leader, quite a few raised concerns for precisely the reasons which have become evident in recent days - and were roundly poo-poohed. We were told not to be silly and that Corbyn could not be blamed for whom he happened to be standing next to. Well, as we’ve seen (and as some of us said at the time) he did not “happen” to stand by these people. He chose to do so.
2. The risks for Labour now are two-fold:-
- that more is uncovered which relates to Corbyn directly: what he may have said or done in the past.
- that there is some violence or atrocity and that there are not many degrees of separation between the perpetrators and the Labour leadership. I fervently hope this does not happen.
It is sad, very sad, that Labour should have come to this.
What is also very worrying that some should be sanguine at the prospect of Holocaust deniers being given a free pass. Quite apart from questions of moral decency, these are people who deny facts - provable facts - and to have such people anywhere near public policy is very worrying.0 -
You mean the days of the likes of the Literal Democrats is over?rottenborough said:
Electoral Commission wont allow similar names.TheJezziah said:
I don't think they could call themselves that, can't remember where I read it but there is something about similar names not being allowed. They could use the name Progress or something. Trouble is I think they struggle to get north of 50 MPs, be enough to replace the SNP as the 3rd party though. At least until an election.rottenborough said:Message to Labour MPs:
"the last remaining option is to remove Corbyn and his acolytes the only way you can: by forming a new parliamentary grouping, the Progressive Labour Party. Sign up enough MPs to dwarf the SNP and you’ll get some short money to tide you over until private donors can be tapped."
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/03/the-question-labour-moderates-must-ask-themselves/
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On the contrary - if there are things that need to be criticised he can and should do so, and in such a way as to provide a contrast with those who use criticism of the situation there as a fig leaf for their anti-semitism. It will show the anti-semites and those who succour them that the leader can continue to speak out as he thinks necessary, even as he sees that they are rooted out, thus proving the difference between the two.Dura_Ace said:Does #antisemitegate mean JC has had to keep his stupid trap shut about the recent shenanigans in Gaza?
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Odd she put "Westminster sex abuse allegations" on that list. IMO that's not an example of the media at its finest. Aided and abetted, of course, by the odious Watson.rottenborough said:Labour, 2018. Beyond belief in a modern democracy. We are headed to Trumpsville, as someone pointed out earlier:
http s://twitter.com/JenWilliamsMEN/status/9803766351228231680 -
But might they claim they were added, the notification was easy to miss (or the name was such that there was no indication of some of the content therein), so they really didn't know? How easy to prove otherwise?rottenborough said:Senior Labour source on aides being in dodgy FB groups:
"On Facebook you can be added to a group without your knowledge. That happens quite often." (Observer)
As I understand it you will be sent a notification by FB. So these aides claiming they knew nothing about joining these groups is potentially a bit iffy.0 -
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/04/01/jeremy-corbyn-facebook-account-deleted-anti-semitism-row-escalates/
Telegraph appear to be asking questions as to WHY it was deleted0 -
Absolutely - I saw a report recently which showed christians were the most persecuted religion world wideCyclefree said:Happy Easter to all.
Perhaps at this time we might remember some of those oppressed in the Middle East - https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/12076/iraq-christians-disappeared. Prince Charles was right to raise their plight.
It is so sad to think that Christianity might vanish from the place of its birth.0 -
Perhaps. A week or two of some bad news, while the government has had a reasonable few weeks, but now they are on break, and the membership has not reacted badly to the news in any case, so how much seepage has there been?Y0kel said:One of the worst things for a party's electoral chances is a stream of news over time that creates a seep in effect amongst the public. Be it division, incompetence, vested interests or indeed dodgy extremism.
Labour either gets a grip of its David Koresh of a leader who just doesn't seem to be able to help himself or it finds a that seep in effect will apply to it.
The cumulative effect of story after story is, I think, not something that can be entirely discounted, but I do think it is easy for the narrative to break, or fade, in the face of something the electorate is more concerned about. It's not like many are expecting a big impact on the locals in a month.0 -
And not just by Christine Shawcroft but by other members of the Peterborough Labour party who opposed his suspension.rottenborough said:
Well, it seems there was an attempt to give him a free pass.TheJezziah said:
I think he was looking for the ones being given a free pass for it.TheScreamingEagles said:
Alan Bull for starters, prospective Labour councillor.Yorkcity said:
Who is denying the Holocaust ? I wish someone would name them, their position , then surely it could be dealt with with If they are members of the party , they should be thrown out.Cyclefree said:A few comments on Corbyn:-
1. When Corbyn first became a candidate for leader, quite a few raised concerns for precisely the reasons which have become evident in recent days - and were roundly poo-poohed. We were told not to be silly and that Corbyn could not be blamed for whom he happened to be standing next to. Well, as we’ve seen (and as some of us said at the time) he did not “happen” to stand by these people. He chose to do so.
2. The risks for Labour now are two-fold:-
- that more is uncovered which relates to Corbyn directly: what he may have said or done in the past.
- that there is some violence or atrocity and that there are not many degrees of separation between the perpetrators and the Labour leadership. I fervently hope this does not happen.
It is sad, very sad, that Labour should have come to this.
What is also very worrying that some should be sanguine at the prospect of Holocaust deniers being given a free pass. Quite apart from questions of moral decency, these are people who deny facts - provable facts - and to have such people anywhere near public policy is very worrying.
http://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/labour-alan-bull-council-holocaust-hoax/
It is because of this Christine Shawcroft had to resign.0 -
Good time to do so with Facebook having some bad press as well!Floater said:https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/04/01/jeremy-corbyn-facebook-account-deleted-anti-semitism-row-escalates/
Telegraph appear to be asking questions as to WHY it was deleted
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UnderstandablyFloater said:https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/04/01/jeremy-corbyn-facebook-account-deleted-anti-semitism-row-escalates/
Telegraph appear to be asking questions as to WHY it was deleted
When I first saw the story on Guido, I assumed it was a late AF joke - given that was posted just after midday - because no way would they be so stupid to delete his account as it would look as if they were covering something up.
It would appear that they are that stupid.0 -
For those who keep questioning the nature of the allegations regarding Labour and Anti-Semitism, this article highlights 50 of them
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/03/labours-pockets-of-anti-semitism-the-evidence/
And there are plenty more.0 -
So it is deleted rather than set to private while it has a cleanup? Seems like an unnecessary strategy - I'd have thought Guido and others would have found most of the smoking guns in there already, and he presumably will get a new page soon given the usefulness of engaging with all their members, so sanitising it rather than burning it to the ground seems like it would be enough.oxfordsimon said:
UnderstandablyFloater said:https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/04/01/jeremy-corbyn-facebook-account-deleted-anti-semitism-row-escalates/
Telegraph appear to be asking questions as to WHY it was deleted
When I first saw the story on Guido, I assumed it was a late AF joke - given that was posted just after midday - because no way would they be so stupid to delete his account as it would look as if they were covering something up.
It would appear that they are that stupid.0 -
Charles Moore: "Mr Corbyn, you see, is the political equivalent of someone who is hauled in for a couple of recent misdemeanours and then turns out to have a record as long as your arm."kle4 said:
So it is deleted rather than set to private while it has a cleanup? Seems like an unnecessary strategy - I'd have thought Guido and others would have found most of the smoking guns in there already, and he presumably will get a new page soon given the usefulness of engaging with all their members, so sanitising it rather than burning it to the ground seems like it would be enough.oxfordsimon said:
UnderstandablyFloater said:https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/04/01/jeremy-corbyn-facebook-account-deleted-anti-semitism-row-escalates/
Telegraph appear to be asking questions as to WHY it was deleted
When I first saw the story on Guido, I assumed it was a late AF joke - given that was posted just after midday - because no way would they be so stupid to delete his account as it would look as if they were covering something up.
It would appear that they are that stupid.0 -
They have retained his official Jeremy Corbyn MP account from what I have read. So that is still there. It is the one that pre-dated his ascent to the leadership that has gone. Hard to say whether it has been deleted or set to private. Either way it looks like a cover-up.kle4 said:
So it is deleted rather than set to private while it has a cleanup? Seems like an unnecessary strategy - I'd have thought Guido and others would have found most of the smoking guns in there already, and he presumably will get a new page soon given the usefulness of engaging with all their members, so sanitising it rather than burning it to the ground seems like it would be enough.oxfordsimon said:
UnderstandablyFloater said:https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/04/01/jeremy-corbyn-facebook-account-deleted-anti-semitism-row-escalates/
Telegraph appear to be asking questions as to WHY it was deleted
When I first saw the story on Guido, I assumed it was a late AF joke - given that was posted just after midday - because no way would they be so stupid to delete his account as it would look as if they were covering something up.
It would appear that they are that stupid.
And it is nearly always the attempt at a cover-up that does the most damage...0 -
Or desperate. Having looked at it all over the weekend, they have realised what a cesspit he has been swimming in for years.oxfordsimon said:
UnderstandablyFloater said:https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/04/01/jeremy-corbyn-facebook-account-deleted-anti-semitism-row-escalates/
Telegraph appear to be asking questions as to WHY it was deleted
When I first saw the story on Guido, I assumed it was a late AF joke - given that was posted just after midday - because no way would they be so stupid to delete his account as it would look as if they were covering something up.
It would appear that they are that stupid.0 -
Floater said:
Absolutely - I saw a report recently which showed christians were the most persecuted religion world wideCyclefree said:Happy Easter to all.
Perhaps at this time we might remember some of those oppressed in the Middle East - https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/12076/iraq-christians-disappeared. Prince Charles was right to raise their plight.
It is so sad to think that Christianity might vanish from the place of its birth.
What comes around goes around as they say.....
What I find surprising is that human beings still believe in supernatural beings en masse and are quite willing to behave in quite extreme ways in pursuit of their really quite absurd beliefs....
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0
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*cough* Bull shit *cough*rottenborough said:April Fool of the day:
https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/9804615797025464320 -
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/980484617105965057oxfordsimon said:
*cough* Bull shit *cough*rottenborough said:April Fool of the day:
https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/9804615797025464320 -
Indeed. And there is no way they will be able to keep what has been published already secret.oxfordsimon said:
They have retained his official Jeremy Corbyn MP account from what I have read. So that is still there. It is the one that pre-dated his ascent to the leadership that has gone. Hard to say whether it has been deleted or set to private. Either way it looks like a cover-up.kle4 said:
So it is deleted rather than set to private while it has a cleanup? Seems like an unnecessary strategy - I'd have thought Guido and others would have found most of the smoking guns in there already, and he presumably will get a new page soon given the usefulness of engaging with all their members, so sanitising it rather than burning it to the ground seems like it would be enough.oxfordsimon said:
UnderstandablyFloater said:https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/04/01/jeremy-corbyn-facebook-account-deleted-anti-semitism-row-escalates/
Telegraph appear to be asking questions as to WHY it was deleted
When I first saw the story on Guido, I assumed it was a late AF joke - given that was posted just after midday - because no way would they be so stupid to delete his account as it would look as if they were covering something up.
It would appear that they are that stupid.
And it is nearly always the attempt at a cover-up that does the most damage...0 -
Course it was, course it was....rottenborough said:April Fool of the day:
https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/9804615797025464320 -
I don't know why you would be surprised that people will believe in an idea so strongly they will be very extreme about it - we don't even need religion to see how extreme people can be over ideas, and they don't need to be supernatural ones of life and death either, when at least when it is about that it makes more sense - but in any case as an atheist I would say that persecution perpetrated by christians in the past or even presently in some palces doesn't mean it is shrugworthy to see then on the receiving end in other places.tyson said:Floater said:
Absolutely - I saw a report recently which showed christians were the most persecuted religion world wideCyclefree said:Happy Easter to all.
Perhaps at this time we might remember some of those oppressed in the Middle East - https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/12076/iraq-christians-disappeared. Prince Charles was right to raise their plight.
It is so sad to think that Christianity might vanish from the place of its birth.
What comes around goes around as they say.....
What I find surprising is that human beings still believe in supernatural beings en masse and are quite willing to behave in quite extreme ways in pursuit of their really quite absurd beliefs....0 -
err - If she had her way he would have had a free pass??TheJezziah said:
I think he was looking for the ones being given a free pass for it.TheScreamingEagles said:
Alan Bull for starters, prospective Labour councillor.Yorkcity said:
Who is denying the Holocaust ? I wish someone would name them, their position , then surely it could be dealt with with If they are members of the party , they should be thrown out.Cyclefree said:A few comments on Corbyn:-
1. When Corbyn first became a candidate for leader, quite a few raised concerns for precisely the reasons which have become evident in recent days - and were roundly poo-poohed. We were told not to be silly and that Corbyn could not be blamed for whom he happened to be standing next to. Well, as we’ve seen (and as some of us said at the time) he did not “happen” to stand by these people. He chose to do so.
2. The risks for Labour now are two-fold:-
- that more is uncovered which relates to Corbyn directly: what he may have said or done in the past.
- that there is some violence or atrocity and that there are not many degrees of separation between the perpetrators and the Labour leadership. I fervently hope this does not happen.
It is sad, very sad, that Labour should have come to this.
What is also very worrying that some should be sanguine at the prospect of Holocaust deniers being given a free pass. Quite apart from questions of moral decency, these are people who deny facts - provable facts - and to have such people anywhere near public policy is very worrying.
http://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/labour-alan-bull-council-holocaust-hoax/
It is because of this Christine Shawcroft had to resign.0 -
Considering the mural comment was from 2002, I suspect that it has already been picked over fairly thoroughly.Cyclefree said:
Indeed. And there is no way they will be able to keep what has been published already secret.oxfordsimon said:
They have retained his official Jeremy Corbyn MP account from what I have read. So that is still there. It is the one that pre-dated his ascent to the leadership that has gone. Hard to say whether it has been deleted or set to private. Either way it looks like a cover-up.kle4 said:
So it is deleted rather than set to private while it has a cleanup? Seems like an unnecessary strategy - I'd have thought Guido and others would have found most of the smoking guns in there already, and he presumably will get a new page soon given the usefulness of engaging with all their members, so sanitising it rather than burning it to the ground seems like it would be enough.oxfordsimon said:
UnderstandablyFloater said:https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/04/01/jeremy-corbyn-facebook-account-deleted-anti-semitism-row-escalates/
Telegraph appear to be asking questions as to WHY it was deleted
When I first saw the story on Guido, I assumed it was a late AF joke - given that was posted just after midday - because no way would they be so stupid to delete his account as it would look as if they were covering something up.
It would appear that they are that stupid.
And it is nearly always the attempt at a cover-up that does the most damage...0 -
They are also naive to think that Guido (and others) haven't already lined up their screenshots for the coming days and weeks.Cyclefree said:
Indeed. And there is no way they will be able to keep what has been published already secret.oxfordsimon said:
They have retained his official Jeremy Corbyn MP account from what I have read. So that is still there. It is the one that pre-dated his ascent to the leadership that has gone. Hard to say whether it has been deleted or set to private. Either way it looks like a cover-up.kle4 said:
So it is deleted rather than set to private while it has a cleanup? Seems like an unnecessary strategy - I'd have thought Guido and others would have found most of the smoking guns in there already, and he presumably will get a new page soon given the usefulness of engaging with all their members, so sanitising it rather than burning it to the ground seems like it would be enough.oxfordsimon said:
UnderstandablyFloater said:https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/04/01/jeremy-corbyn-facebook-account-deleted-anti-semitism-row-escalates/
Telegraph appear to be asking questions as to WHY it was deleted
When I first saw the story on Guido, I assumed it was a late AF joke - given that was posted just after midday - because no way would they be so stupid to delete his account as it would look as if they were covering something up.
It would appear that they are that stupid.
And it is nearly always the attempt at a cover-up that does the most damage...0 -
One would think if they had many more killer screengrabs they would have one to hand to display now that the page is gone, to go 'Aha, too late Mr Corbyn', but perhaps that is being saved for tomorrow.oxfordsimon said:
They are also naive to think that Guido (and others) haven't already lined up their screenshots for the coming days and weeks.Cyclefree said:
Indeed. And there is no way they will be able to keep what has been published already secret.oxfordsimon said:
They have retained his official Jeremy Corbyn MP account from what I have read. So that is still there. It is the one that pre-dated his ascent to the leadership that has gone. Hard to say whether it has been deleted or set to private. Either way it looks like a cover-up.kle4 said:
So it is deleted rather than set to private while it has a cleanup? Seems like an unnecessary strategy - I'd have thought Guido and others would have found most of the smoking guns in there already, and he presumably will get a new page soon given the usefulness of engaging with all their members, so sanitising it rather than burning it to the ground seems like it would be enough.oxfordsimon said:
UnderstandablyFloater said:https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/04/01/jeremy-corbyn-facebook-account-deleted-anti-semitism-row-escalates/
Telegraph appear to be asking questions as to WHY it was deleted
When I first saw the story on Guido, I assumed it was a late AF joke - given that was posted just after midday - because no way would they be so stupid to delete his account as it would look as if they were covering something up.
It would appear that they are that stupid.
And it is nearly always the attempt at a cover-up that does the most damage...0 -
Why use one now when the deletion story is enough to maintain the narrative? Wait for them to think they are safe and hit them with a big onekle4 said:
One would think if they had many more killer screengrabs they would have one to hand to display now that the page is gone, to go 'Aha, too late Mr Corbyn', but perhaps that is being saved for tomorrow.oxfordsimon said:
They are also naive to think that Guido (and others) haven't already lined up their screenshots for the coming days and weeks.Cyclefree said:
Indeed. And there is no way they will be able to keep what has been published already secret.oxfordsimon said:
They have retained his official Jeremy Corbyn MP account from what I have read. So that is still there. It is the one that pre-dated his ascent to the leadership that has gone. Hard to say whether it has been deleted or set to private. Either way it looks like a cover-up.kle4 said:
So it is deleted rather than set to private while it has a cleanup? Seems like an unnecessary strategy - I'd have thought Guido and others would have found most of the smoking guns in there already, and he presumably will get a new page soon given the usefulness of engaging with all their members, so sanitising it rather than burning it to the ground seems like it would be enough.oxfordsimon said:
UnderstandablyFloater said:https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/04/01/jeremy-corbyn-facebook-account-deleted-anti-semitism-row-escalates/
Telegraph appear to be asking questions as to WHY it was deleted
When I first saw the story on Guido, I assumed it was a late AF joke - given that was posted just after midday - because no way would they be so stupid to delete his account as it would look as if they were covering something up.
It would appear that they are that stupid.
And it is nearly always the attempt at a cover-up that does the most damage...0 -
Reported that it was 2012 not 2002Foxy said:
Considering the mural comment was from 2002, I suspect that it has already been picked over fairly thoroughly.Cyclefree said:
Indeed. And there is no way they will be able to keep what has been published already secret.oxfordsimon said:
They have retained his official Jeremy Corbyn MP account from what I have read. So that is still there. It is the one that pre-dated his ascent to the leadership that has gone. Hard to say whether it has been deleted or set to private. Either way it looks like a cover-up.kle4 said:
So it is deleted rather than set to private while it has a cleanup? Seems like an unnecessary strategy - I'd have thought Guido and others would have found most of the smoking guns in there already, and he presumably will get a new page soon given the usefulness of engaging with all their members, so sanitising it rather than burning it to the ground seems like it would be enough.oxfordsimon said:
UnderstandablyFloater said:https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/04/01/jeremy-corbyn-facebook-account-deleted-anti-semitism-row-escalates/
Telegraph appear to be asking questions as to WHY it was deleted
When I first saw the story on Guido, I assumed it was a late AF joke - given that was posted just after midday - because no way would they be so stupid to delete his account as it would look as if they were covering something up.
It would appear that they are that stupid.
And it is nearly always the attempt at a cover-up that does the most damage...0 -
You mean you were not swayed by her defence that she was simply a fool, seeking to defend him before she even knew what he needed defending from?Floater said:
err - If she had her way he would have had a free pass??TheJezziah said:
I think he was looking for the ones being given a free pass for it.TheScreamingEagles said:
Alan Bull for starters, prospective Labour councillor.Yorkcity said:
Who is denying the Holocaust ? I wish someone would name them, their position , then surely it could be dealt with with If they are members of the party , they should be thrown out.Cyclefree said:A few comments on Corbyn:-
1. When Corbyn first became a candidate for leader, quite a few raised concerns for precisely the reasons which have become evident in recent days - and were roundly poo-poohed. We were told not to be silly and that Corbyn could not be blamed for whom he happened to be standing next to. Well, as we’ve seen (and as some of us said at the time) he did not “happen” to stand by these people. He chose to do so.
2. The risks for Labour now are two-fold:-
- that more is uncovered which relates to Corbyn directly: what he may have said or done in the past.
- that there is some violence or atrocity and that there are not many degrees of separation between the perpetrators and the Labour leadership. I fervently hope this does not happen.
It is sad, very sad, that Labour should have come to this.
What is also very worrying that some should be sanguine at the prospect of Holocaust deniers being given a free pass. Quite apart from questions of moral decency, these are people who deny facts - provable facts - and to have such people anywhere near public policy is very worrying.
http://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/labour-alan-bull-council-holocaust-hoax/
It is because of this Christine Shawcroft had to resign.0 -
Maybe you should allow for the possibility that the persistence of religious beliefs is because such belief, the moral framework it can bring and the comfort that it can give answer some need in human beings.tyson said:Floater said:
Absolutely - I saw a report recently which showed christians were the most persecuted religion world wideCyclefree said:Happy Easter to all.
Perhaps at this time we might remember some of those oppressed in the Middle East - https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/12076/iraq-christians-disappeared. Prince Charles was right to raise their plight.
It is so sad to think that Christianity might vanish from the place of its birth.
What comes around goes around as they say.....
What I find surprising is that human beings still believe in supernatural beings en masse and are quite willing to behave in quite extreme ways in pursuit of their really quite absurd beliefs....
Even atheists seem to want to believe in something and some of their belief systems have been quite as absurd and dangerous.0 -
I suppose it is probably better to commit heinous acts in the name of a God, rather than some perverse, contrived ideology, or worse on behalf of some megalomaniac.kle4 said:
I don't know why you would be surprised that people will believe in an idea so strongly they will be very extreme about it - we don't even need religion to see how extreme people can be over ideas, and they don't need to be supernatural ones of life and death either, when at least when it is about that it makes more sense - but in any case as an atheist I would say that persecution perpetrated by christians in the past or even presently in some palces doesn't mean it is shrugworthy to see then on the receiving end in other places.tyson said:Floater said:
Absolutely - I saw a report recently which showed christians were the most persecuted religion world wideCyclefree said:Happy Easter to all.
Perhaps at this time we might remember some of those oppressed in the Middle East - https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/12076/iraq-christians-disappeared. Prince Charles was right to raise their plight.
It is so sad to think that Christianity might vanish from the place of its birth.
What comes around goes around as they say.....
What I find surprising is that human beings still believe in supernatural beings en masse and are quite willing to behave in quite extreme ways in pursuit of their really quite absurd beliefs....
0 -
I don't think it better, but I think it more understandable people are so extreme when it comes to matters of eternity, as they see it, than mundane political ideology.tyson said:
I suppose it is probably better to commit heinous acts in the name of a God, rather than some perverse, contrived ideology, or worse on behalf of some megalomaniac.kle4 said:
I don't know why you would be surprised that people will believe in an idea so strongly they will be very extreme about it - we don't even need religion to see how extreme people can be over ideas, and they don't need to be supernatural ones of life and death either, when at least when it is about that it makes more sense - but in any case as an atheist I would say that persecution perpetrated by christians in the past or even presently in some palces doesn't mean it is shrugworthy to see then on the receiving end in other places.tyson said:Floater said:
Absolutely - I saw a report recently which showed christians were the most persecuted religion world wideCyclefree said:Happy Easter to all.
Perhaps at this time we might remember some of those oppressed in the Middle East - https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/12076/iraq-christians-disappeared. Prince Charles was right to raise their plight.
It is so sad to think that Christianity might vanish from the place of its birth.
What comes around goes around as they say.....
What I find surprising is that human beings still believe in supernatural beings en masse and are quite willing to behave in quite extreme ways in pursuit of their really quite absurd beliefs....0 -
That wasn't a defence. It was a failed attempt at an excuse. Why should she need a defence when it was all just a meeeedja conspiracy to get at St Jeremy of Palestine?kle4 said:
You mean you were not swayed by her defence that she was simply a fool, seeking to defend him before she even knew what he needed defending from?Floater said:
err - If she had her way he would have had a free pass??TheJezziah said:
I think he was looking for the ones being given a free pass for it.TheScreamingEagles said:
Alan Bull for starters, prospective Labour councillor.Yorkcity said:
Who is denying the Holocaust ? I wish someone would name them, their position , then surely it could be dealt with with If they are members of the party , they should be thrown out.Cyclefree said:A few comments on Corbyn:-
1. When Corbyn first became a candidate for leader, quite a few raised concerns for precisely the reasons which have become evident in recent days - and were roundly poo-poohed. We were told not to be silly and that Corbyn could not be blamed for whom he happened to be standing next to. Well, as we’ve seen (and as some of us said at the time) he did not “happen” to stand by these people. He chose to do so.
2. The risks for Labour now are two-fold:-
- that more is uncovered which relates to Corbyn directly: what he may have said or done in the past.
- that there is some violence or atrocity and that there are not many degrees of separation between the perpetrators and the Labour leadership. I fervently hope this does not happen.
It is sad, very sad, that Labour should have come to this.
What is also very worrying that some should be sanguine at the prospect of Holocaust deniers being given a free pass. Quite apart from questions of moral decency, these are people who deny facts - provable facts - and to have such people anywhere near public policy is very worrying.
http://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/labour-alan-bull-council-holocaust-hoax/
It is because of this Christine Shawcroft had to resign.0 -
I would rather that we were nice to each other and didn't believe in anything silly...kle4 said:
I don't think it better, but I think it more understandable people are so extreme when it comes to matters of eternity, as they see it, than mundane political ideology.tyson said:
I suppose it is probably better to commit heinous acts in the name of a God, rather than some perverse, contrived ideology, or worse on behalf of some megalomaniac.kle4 said:
I don't know why you would be surprised that people will believe in an idea so strongly they will be very extreme about it - we don't even need religion to see how extreme people can be over ideas, and they don't need to be supernatural ones of life and death either, when at least when it is about that it makes more sense - but in any case as an atheist I would say that persecution perpetrated by christians in the past or even presently in some palces doesn't mean it is shrugworthy to see then on the receiving end in other places.tyson said:Floater said:
Absolutely - I saw a report recently which showed christians were the most persecuted religion world wideCyclefree said:Happy Easter to all.
Perhaps at this time we might remember some of those oppressed in the Middle East - https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/12076/iraq-christians-disappeared. Prince Charles was right to raise their plight.
It is so sad to think that Christianity might vanish from the place of its birth.
What comes around goes around as they say.....
What I find surprising is that human beings still believe in supernatural beings en masse and are quite willing to behave in quite extreme ways in pursuit of their really quite absurd beliefs....0 -
My mistake, but as FB only started 14 years ago, 2002 would have been rather ahead of the curve!Big_G_NorthWales said:
Reported that it was 2012 not 2002Foxy said:
Considering the mural comment was from 2002, I suspect that it has already been picked over fairly thoroughly.Cyclefree said:
Indeed. And there is no way they will be able to keep what has been published already secret.oxfordsimon said:
They have retained his official Jeremy Corbyn MP account from what I have read. So that is still there. It is the one that pre-dated his ascent to the leadership that has gone. Hard to say whether it has been deleted or set to private. Either way it looks like a cover-up.kle4 said:
So it is deleted rather than set to private while it has a cleanup? Seems like an unnecessary strategy - I'd have thought Guido and others would have found most of the smoking guns in there already, and he presumably will get a new page soon given the usefulness of engaging with all their members, so sanitising it rather than burning it to the ground seems like it would be enough.oxfordsimon said:
UnderstandablyFloater said:https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/04/01/jeremy-corbyn-facebook-account-deleted-anti-semitism-row-escalates/
Telegraph appear to be asking questions as to WHY it was deleted
When I first saw the story on Guido, I assumed it was a late AF joke - given that was posted just after midday - because no way would they be so stupid to delete his account as it would look as if they were covering something up.
It would appear that they are that stupid.
And it is nearly always the attempt at a cover-up that does the most damage...
Nonetheless probably picked over already.0 -
Maybe I should rephrase, I think he was looking for the ones being given more than a hypothetical free pass for it.Floater said:
err - If she had her way he would have had a free pass??TheJezziah said:
I think he was looking for the ones being given a free pass for it.TheScreamingEagles said:
You are right but I try to avoid too many references to Blairites as some people don't like it.JSpring said:
Thing is, there is no clearly defined "centre faction" in Labour. It is divided between liberal Blairites such as Umunna and Bradshaw and old school right-wingers (in Labour terms) such as Watson, Burnham and Flint.TheJezziah said:Big_G_NorthWales said:TheJezziah said:Big_G_NorthWales said:TheJezziah said:
0 -
I suspect Guido and others have lots of damaging information and they will drip feed it into the narrative. Also big debate on it in HOC on the 17th AprilFoxy said:
My mistake, but as FB only started 14 years ago, 2002 would have been rather ahead of the curve!Big_G_NorthWales said:
Reported that it was 2012 not 2002Foxy said:
Considering the mural comment was from 2002, I suspect that it has already been picked over fairly thoroughly.Cyclefree said:
Indeed. And there is no way they will be able to keep what has been published already secret.oxfordsimon said:
They have retained his official Jeremy Corbyn MP account from what I have read. So that is still there. It is the one that pre-dated his ascent to the leadership that has gone. Hard to say whether it has been deleted or set to private. Either way it looks like a cover-up.kle4 said:
So it is deleted rather than set to private while it has a cleanup? Seems like an unnecessary strategy - I'd have thought Guido and others would have found most of the smoking guns in there already, and he presumably will get a new page soon given the usefulness of engaging with all their members, so sanitising it rather than burning it to the ground seems like it would be enough.oxfordsimon said:
UnderstandablyFloater said:https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/04/01/jeremy-corbyn-facebook-account-deleted-anti-semitism-row-escalates/
Telegraph appear to be asking questions as to WHY it was deleted
When I first saw the story on Guido, I assumed it was a late AF joke - given that was posted just after midday - because no way would they be so stupid to delete his account as it would look as if they were covering something up.
It would appear that they are that stupid.
And it is nearly always the attempt at a cover-up that does the most damage...
Nonetheless probably picked over already.0 -
I'm sure MI5 will have a copy of everything that Corbyn has ever said/read on Facebook.....
If not - shoddy!0 -
What did we all do in 2002 before Face-Ache?Foxy said:
My mistake, but as FB only started 14 years ago, 2002 would have been rather ahead of the curve!Big_G_NorthWales said:
Reported that it was 2012 not 2002Foxy said:
Considering the mural comment was from 2002, I suspect that it has already been picked over fairly thoroughly.Cyclefree said:
Indeed. And there is no way they will be able to keep what has been published already secret.oxfordsimon said:
They have retained his official Jeremy Corbyn MP account from what I have read. So that is still there. It is the one that pre-dated his ascent to the leadership that has gone. Hard to say whether it has been deleted or set to private. Either way it looks like a cover-up.kle4 said:
So it is deleted rather than set to private while it has a cleanup? Seems like an unnecessary strategy - I'd have thought Guido and others would have found most of the smoking guns in there already, and he presumably will get a new page soon given the usefulness of engaging with all their members, so sanitising it rather than burning it to the ground seems like it would be enough.oxfordsimon said:
UnderstandablyFloater said:https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/04/01/jeremy-corbyn-facebook-account-deleted-anti-semitism-row-escalates/
Telegraph appear to be asking questions as to WHY it was deleted
When I first saw the story on Guido, I assumed it was a late AF joke - given that was posted just after midday - because no way would they be so stupid to delete his account as it would look as if they were covering something up.
It would appear that they are that stupid.
And it is nearly always the attempt at a cover-up that does the most damage...
Nonetheless probably picked over already.0 -
Not sure I could be happier right now.
Fun fact: the day after Spurs last beat Chelsea at Stamford Bridge Nelson Mandela was released from prison.0 -
Looks like Chelsea and Arsenal are leading Brexit !!!SouthamObserver said:Not sure I could be happier right now.
Fun fact: the day after Spurs last beat Chelsea at Stamford Bridge Nelson Mandela was released from prison.0 -
Showing your caring side again I see Tysontyson said:Floater said:
Absolutely - I saw a report recently which showed christians were the most persecuted religion world wideCyclefree said:Happy Easter to all.
Perhaps at this time we might remember some of those oppressed in the Middle East - https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/12076/iraq-christians-disappeared. Prince Charles was right to raise their plight.
It is so sad to think that Christianity might vanish from the place of its birth.
What comes around goes around as they say.....
What I find surprising is that human beings still believe in supernatural beings en masse and are quite willing to behave in quite extreme ways in pursuit of their really quite absurd beliefs....
0 -
We had a Christian office manager who was Pakistani in our Islamabad office, some 15-20 years ago. The story she told of the treatment of Christians back then was horrific. I can't imagine it has improved any since.Floater said:
Absolutely - I saw a report recently which showed christians were the most persecuted religion world wideCyclefree said:Happy Easter to all.
Perhaps at this time we might remember some of those oppressed in the Middle East - https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/12076/iraq-christians-disappeared. Prince Charles was right to raise their plight.
It is so sad to think that Christianity might vanish from the place of its birth.0 -
Ho ho horottenborough said:April Fool of the day:
https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/980461579702546432
Pull the other one0 -
I see I need to work on highlighting my sarcasm.oxfordsimon said:
That wasn't a defence. It was a failed attempt at an excuse. Why should she need a defence when it was all just a meeeedja conspiracy to get at St Jeremy of Palestine?kle4 said:
You mean you were not swayed by her defence that she was simply a fool, seeking to defend him before she even knew what he needed defending from?Floater said:
err - If she had her way he would have had a free pass??TheJezziah said:
I think he was looking for the ones being given a free pass for it.TheScreamingEagles said:
Alan Bull for starters, prospective Labour councillor.Yorkcity said:
Who is denying the Holocaust ? I wish someone would name them, their position , then surely it could be dealt with with If they are members of the party , they should be thrown out.Cyclefree said:A few comments on Corbyn:-
1. When Corbyn first became a candidate for leader, quite a few raised concerns for precisely the reasons which have become evident in recent days - and were roundly poo-poohed. We were told not to be silly and that Corbyn could not be blamed for whom he happened to be standing next to. Well, as we’ve seen (and as some of us said at the time) he did not “happen” to stand by these people. He chose to do so.
2. The risks for Labour now are two-fold:-
- that more is uncovered which relates to Corbyn directly: what he may have said or done in the past.
- that there is some violence or atrocity and that there are not many degrees of separation between the perpetrators and the Labour leadership. I fervently hope this does not happen.
It is sad, very sad, that Labour should have come to this.
What is also very worrying that some should be sanguine at the prospect of Holocaust deniers being given a free pass. Quite apart from questions of moral decency, these are people who deny facts - provable facts - and to have such people anywhere near public policy is very worrying.
http://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/labour-alan-bull-council-holocaust-hoax/
It is because of this Christine Shawcroft had to resign.0 -
Ideally, yes, but humans are never going to agree entirely on what is or is not silly, and we cannot force people not to.tyson said:
I would rather that we were nice to each other and didn't believe in anything silly...kle4 said:
I don't think it better, but I think it more understandable people are so extreme when it comes to matters of eternity, as they see it, than mundane political ideology.tyson said:
I suppose it is probably better to commit heinous acts in the name of a God, rather than some perverse, contrived ideology, or worse on behalf of some megalomaniac.kle4 said:
I don't know why you would be surprised that people will believe in an idea so strongly they will be very extreme about it - we don't even need religion to see how extreme people can be over ideas, and they don't need to be supernatural ones of life and death either, when at least when it is about that it makes more sense - but in any case as an atheist I would say that persecution perpetrated by christians in the past or even presently in some palces doesn't mean it is shrugworthy to see then on the receiving end in other places.tyson said:Floater said:
Absolutely - I saw a report recently which showed christians were the most persecuted religion world wideCyclefree said:Happy Easter to all.
Perhaps at this time we might remember some of those oppressed in the Middle East - https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/12076/iraq-christians-disappeared. Prince Charles was right to raise their plight.
It is so sad to think that Christianity might vanish from the place of its birth.
What comes around goes around as they say.....
What I find surprising is that human beings still believe in supernatural beings en masse and are quite willing to behave in quite extreme ways in pursuit of their really quite absurd beliefs....0 -
An interesting indication of that seep will be if Corbyn starts becoming the butt of TV comedy shows like Mock The Week for Labour's anti-semitism. That was the point at which it became clear that Miliband was a dead man walking....but for that comedy to work, the story has to have seeped into the public consciousness.Y0kel said:One of the worst things for a party's electoral chances is a stream of news over time that creates a seep in effect amongst the public. Be it division, incompetence, vested interests or indeed dodgy extremism.
Labour either gets a grip of its David Koresh of a leader who just doesn't seem to be able to help himself or it finds a that seep in effect will apply to it.0 -
UD. You were right and Izzy was wrong though I don't consider it an identity more a cross to bear. Imagine being the only pupil in a prep school in North Wales not to get the chance to sing in the church choir!Theuniondivvie said:Theuniondivvie said:
FPTIshmael_Z said:
I did check, and thought I was the most likely candidate. Happy Easter.Theuniondivvie said:
You'll have to get over this thing that posts are all about YOU.Ishmael_Z said:
Cracking point, except that I said nothing about the loathsome Bojo , I don't believe roger is Jewish, and I really am genuinely against antisemitism and death camps and stuff, if you can believe such a thing.Theuniondivvie said:The seamless way that PB can go from fudging Bojo's racist terminology to getting all sanctimonious on the ass of a Jewish person recounting a joke is almost..ALMOST..impressive.
Same to you.
By the bye, on the basis of several thing Roger has mentioned in the past, I'd assumed he was Jewish. Since I tend to think of that as mostly a positive, I hadn't really thought much more about it. If it's not the case apologies to him, no one likes an identity thrust upon them.0 -
Could you post it in green just to make it doubly clear??!kle4 said:
I see I need to work on highlighting my sarcasm.oxfordsimon said:
That wasn't a defence. It was a failed attempt at an excuse. Why should she need a defence when it was all just a meeeedja conspiracy to get at St Jeremy of Palestine?kle4 said:
You mean you were not swayed by her defence that she was simply a fool, seeking to defend him before she even knew what he needed defending from?Floater said:
err - If she had her way he would have had a free pass??TheJezziah said:
I think he was looking for the ones being given a free pass for it.TheScreamingEagles said:
Alan Bull for starters, prospective Labour councillor.Yorkcity said:
Who is denying the Holocaust ? I wish someone would name them, their position , then surely it could be dealt with with If they are members of the party , they should be thrown out.Cyclefree said:A few comments on Corbyn:-
1. When Corbyn first became a candidate for leader, quite a few raised concerns for precisely the reasons which have become evident in recent days - and were roundly poo-poohed. We were told not to be silly and that Corbyn could not be blamed for whom he happened to be standing next to. Well, as we’ve seen (and as some of us said at the time) he did not “happen” to stand by these people. He chose to do so.
2. The risks for Labour now are two-fold:-
- that more is uncovered which relates to Corbyn directly: what he may have said or done in the past.
- that there is some violence or atrocity and that there are not many degrees of separation between the perpetrators and the Labour leadership. I fervently hope this does not happen.
It is sad, very sad, that Labour should have come to this.
What is also very worrying that some should be sanguine at the prospect of Holocaust deniers being given a free pass. Quite apart from questions of moral decency, these are people who deny facts - provable facts - and to have such people anywhere near public policy is very worrying.
http://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/labour-alan-bull-council-holocaust-hoax/
It is because of this Christine Shawcroft had to resign.0 -
The "apparently" suggests the media might not be convinced!Floater said:
Ho ho horottenborough said:April Fool of the day:
https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/980461579702546432
Pull the other one0 -
We have had 10 days of coverage of it so far - I think it is safe to say that the public are aware of Corbyn's links to this issueMarqueeMark said:
An interesting indication of that seep will be if Corbyn starts becoming the butt of TV comedy shows like Mock The Week for Labour's anti-semitism. That was the point at which it became clear that Miliband was a dead man walking....but for that comedy to work, the story has to have seeped into the public consciousness.Y0kel said:One of the worst things for a party's electoral chances is a stream of news over time that creates a seep in effect amongst the public. Be it division, incompetence, vested interests or indeed dodgy extremism.
Labour either gets a grip of its David Koresh of a leader who just doesn't seem to be able to help himself or it finds a that seep in effect will apply to it.0 -
Here’s hoping!!Big_G_NorthWales said:
Looks like Chelsea and Arsenal are leading Brexit !!!SouthamObserver said:Not sure I could be happier right now.
Fun fact: the day after Spurs last beat Chelsea at Stamford Bridge Nelson Mandela was released from prison.
0 -
It certainly is pretty bad right nowMarqueeMark said:
We had a Christian office manager who was Pakistani in our Islamabad office, some 15-20 years ago. The story she told of the treatment of Christians back then was horrific. I can't imagine it has improved any since.Floater said:
Absolutely - I saw a report recently which showed christians were the most persecuted religion world wideCyclefree said:Happy Easter to all.
Perhaps at this time we might remember some of those oppressed in the Middle East - https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/12076/iraq-christians-disappeared. Prince Charles was right to raise their plight.
It is so sad to think that Christianity might vanish from the place of its birth.0 -
Ten days = 10%oxfordsimon said:
We have had 10 days of coverage of it so far - I think it is safe to say that the public are aware of Corbyn's links to this issueMarqueeMark said:
An interesting indication of that seep will be if Corbyn starts becoming the butt of TV comedy shows like Mock The Week for Labour's anti-semitism. That was the point at which it became clear that Miliband was a dead man walking....but for that comedy to work, the story has to have seeped into the public consciousness.Y0kel said:One of the worst things for a party's electoral chances is a stream of news over time that creates a seep in effect amongst the public. Be it division, incompetence, vested interests or indeed dodgy extremism.
Labour either gets a grip of its David Koresh of a leader who just doesn't seem to be able to help himself or it finds a that seep in effect will apply to it.0 -
OT Talking of religion .....though I'm with tyson on this having just been to Mantova and seeing a spectacular display of synchronised walking by huge numbers of nuns looking like a harmless version of Ku Klux Klan I think I'd miss the paraphernalia if it wasn't there.0
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My brother keeps telling everyone who will listen , if he comes anywhere near power , they will make sure he does not.MarqueeMark said:I'm sure MI5 will have a copy of everything that Corbyn has ever said/read on Facebook.....
If not - shoddy!0 -
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"seeing a spectacular display of synchronised walking by huge numbers of nuns" is possibly the most intriguing dozen consecutive words ever written on pb.com!!Roger said:OT Talking of religion .....though I'm with tyson on this having just been to Mantova and seeing a spectacular display of synchronised walking by huge numbers of nuns looking like a harmless version of Ku Klux Klan I think I'd miss the paraphernalia if it wasn't there.
0 -
Perhaps they are using all antisemitic shortlists?TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
DaysHours since labour embroiled in a new antisemitism scandal....0 -
Might be like last time That Spurs finish 4th but do not qualify, as Arsenal win Europa .SouthamObserver said:
Here’s hoping!!Big_G_NorthWales said:
Looks like Chelsea and Arsenal are leading Brexit !!!SouthamObserver said:Not sure I could be happier right now.
Fun fact: the day after Spurs last beat Chelsea at Stamford Bridge Nelson Mandela was released from prison.0 -
I would expect every labour candidate for local and national elections will now come under intense scutiny for any anti semetic views or tweetsFrancisUrquhart said:DaysHours since labour embroiled in a new antisemitism scandal....0 -
Nah, even if Spurs finish fourth and Arsenal win the Europa league, both sides will qualify for the Champions League.Yorkcity said:
Might be like last time That Spurs finish 4th but do not qualify, as Arsenal win Europa .SouthamObserver said:
Here’s hoping!!Big_G_NorthWales said:
Looks like Chelsea and Arsenal are leading Brexit !!!SouthamObserver said:Not sure I could be happier right now.
Fun fact: the day after Spurs last beat Chelsea at Stamford Bridge Nelson Mandela was released from prison.
The only way Spurs could miss out if they finish fourth is if Liverpool have a slump, and finish outside of the top 4 and win the Champions League.0 -
You've got to laugh.....RobD said:
Perhaps they are using all antisemitic shortlists?TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Well City will see to it Liverpool do not win the champions league so Spurs should be safeTheScreamingEagles said:
Nah, even if Spurs finish fourth and Arsenal win the Europa league, both sides will qualify for the Champions League.Yorkcity said:
Might be like last time That Spurs finish 4th but do not qualify, as Arsenal win Europa .SouthamObserver said:
Here’s hoping!!Big_G_NorthWales said:
Looks like Chelsea and Arsenal are leading Brexit !!!SouthamObserver said:Not sure I could be happier right now.
Fun fact: the day after Spurs last beat Chelsea at Stamford Bridge Nelson Mandela was released from prison.
The only way Spurs could miss out if they finish fourth is if Liverpool have a slump, and finish outside of the top 4 and win the Champions League.0 -
Ah, glad I wasn't being (inaccurately) presumptious.Roger said:
UD. You were right and Izzy was wrong though I don't consider it an identity more a cross to bear. Imagine being the only pupil in a prep school in North Wales not to get the chance to sing in the church choir!Theuniondivvie said:Theuniondivvie said:
FPTIshmael_Z said:
I did check, and thought I was the most likely candidate. Happy Easter.Theuniondivvie said:
You'll have to get over this thing that posts are all about YOU.Ishmael_Z said:
Cracking point, except that I said nothing about the loathsome Bojo , I don't believe roger is Jewish, and I really am genuinely against antisemitism and death camps and stuff, if you can believe such a thing.Theuniondivvie said:The seamless way that PB can go from fudging Bojo's racist terminology to getting all sanctimonious on the ass of a Jewish person recounting a joke is almost..ALMOST..impressive.
Same to you.
By the bye, on the basis of several thing Roger has mentioned in the past, I'd assumed he was Jewish. Since I tend to think of that as mostly a positive, I hadn't really thought much more about it. If it's not the case apologies to him, no one likes an identity thrust upon them.
Never too late on the singing front!
0 -
What - your brother?Yorkcity said:
My brother keeps telling everyone who will listen , if he comes anywhere near power , they will make sure he does not.MarqueeMark said:I'm sure MI5 will have a copy of everything that Corbyn has ever said/read on Facebook.....
If not - shoddy!0 -
Do you have to actually be antisemitic or do they also allow those self identifying as antisemitic on as well?RobD said:
Perhaps they are using all antisemitic shortlists?TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
The same Scots who every poll shows will give a Unionist majority at Holyrood in 2021?Theuniondivvie said:0 -
I think I'll take that as a compliment and even if it wasn't intended it's at least a gasp of fresh air from the anti semite obsessives on here.MarqueeMark said:
"seeing a spectacular display of synchronised walking by huge numbers of nuns" is possibly the most intriguing dozen consecutive words ever written on pb.com!!Roger said:OT Talking of religion .....though I'm with tyson on this having just been to Mantova and seeing a spectacular display of synchronised walking by huge numbers of nuns looking like a harmless version of Ku Klux Klan I think I'd miss the paraphernalia if it wasn't there.
(OT. What did you make of 'You Were Never really Here'? I couldn't make head nor tail of it)
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The near total absence of evidence for this story is its most remarkable feature.Yorkcity said:
Who is denying the Holocaust ? I wish someone would name them, their position , then surely it could be dealt with with If they are members of the party , they should be thrown out.Cyclefree said:A few comments on Corbyn:-
1. When Corbyn first became a candidate for leader, quite a few raised concerns for precisely the reasons which have become evident in recent days - and were roundly poo-poohed. We were told not to be silly and that Corbyn could not be blamed for whom he happened to be standing next to. Well, as we’ve seen (and as some of us said at the time) he did not “happen” to stand by these people. He chose to do so.
2. The risks for Labour now are two-fold:-
- that more is uncovered which relates to Corbyn directly: what he may have said or done in the past.
- that there is some violence or atrocity and that there are not many degrees of separation between the perpetrators and the Labour leadership. I fervently hope this does not happen.
It is sad, very sad, that Labour should have come to this.
What is also very worrying that some should be sanguine at the prospect of Holocaust deniers being given a free pass. Quite apart from questions of moral decency, these are people who deny facts - provable facts - and to have such people anywhere near public policy is very worrying.
0 -
I see , how many teams can qualify from England then 5 ?TheScreamingEagles said:
Nah, even if Spurs finish fourth and Arsenal win the Europa league, both sides will qualify for the Champions League.Yorkcity said:
Might be like last time That Spurs finish 4th but do not qualify, as Arsenal win Europa .SouthamObserver said:
Here’s hoping!!Big_G_NorthWales said:
Looks like Chelsea and Arsenal are leading Brexit !!!SouthamObserver said:Not sure I could be happier right now.
Fun fact: the day after Spurs last beat Chelsea at Stamford Bridge Nelson Mandela was released from prison.
The only way Spurs could miss out if they finish fourth is if Liverpool have a slump, and finish outside of the top 4 and win the Champions League.0 -
Try Regev or StainesRecidivist said:
The near total absence of evidence for this story is its most remarkable feature.Yorkcity said:
Who is denying the Holocaust ? I wish someone would name them, their position , then surely it could be dealt with with If they are members of the party , they should be thrown out.Cyclefree said:A few comments on Corbyn:-
1. When Corbyn first became a candidate for leader, quite a few raised concerns for precisely the reasons which have become evident in recent days - and were roundly poo-poohed. We were told not to be silly and that Corbyn could not be blamed for whom he happened to be standing next to. Well, as we’ve seen (and as some of us said at the time) he did not “happen” to stand by these people. He chose to do so.
2. The risks for Labour now are two-fold:-
- that more is uncovered which relates to Corbyn directly: what he may have said or done in the past.
- that there is some violence or atrocity and that there are not many degrees of separation between the perpetrators and the Labour leadership. I fervently hope this does not happen.
It is sad, very sad, that Labour should have come to this.
What is also very worrying that some should be sanguine at the prospect of Holocaust deniers being given a free pass. Quite apart from questions of moral decency, these are people who deny facts - provable facts - and to have such people anywhere near public policy is very worrying.0 -
The whole story or just parts of it? There must be evidence of parts of it, because no way the leader of a party says there is a problem with anti-semitism in their party unless they are certain it exists.Recidivist said:
The near total absence of evidence for this story is its most remarkable feature.Yorkcity said:
Who is denying the Holocaust ? I wish someone would name them, their position , then surely it could be dealt with with If they are members of the party , they should be thrown out.Cyclefree said:A few comments on Corbyn:-
1. When Corbyn first became a candidate for leader, quite a few raised concerns for precisely the reasons which have become evident in recent days - and were roundly poo-poohed. We were told not to be silly and that Corbyn could not be blamed for whom he happened to be standing next to. Well, as we’ve seen (and as some of us said at the time) he did not “happen” to stand by these people. He chose to do so.
2. The risks for Labour now are two-fold:-
- that more is uncovered which relates to Corbyn directly: what he may have said or done in the past.
- that there is some violence or atrocity and that there are not many degrees of separation between the perpetrators and the Labour leadership. I fervently hope this does not happen.
It is sad, very sad, that Labour should have come to this.
What is also very worrying that some should be sanguine at the prospect of Holocaust deniers being given a free pass. Quite apart from questions of moral decency, these are people who deny facts - provable facts - and to have such people anywhere near public policy is very worrying.0 -
Yeah 5 maxYorkcity said:
I see , how many teams can qualify from England then 5 ?TheScreamingEagles said:
Nah, even if Spurs finish fourth and Arsenal win the Europa league, both sides will qualify for the Champions League.Yorkcity said:
Might be like last time That Spurs finish 4th but do not qualify, as Arsenal win Europa .SouthamObserver said:
Here’s hoping!!Big_G_NorthWales said:
Looks like Chelsea and Arsenal are leading Brexit !!!SouthamObserver said:Not sure I could be happier right now.
Fun fact: the day after Spurs last beat Chelsea at Stamford Bridge Nelson Mandela was released from prison.
The only way Spurs could miss out if they finish fourth is if Liverpool have a slump, and finish outside of the top 4 and win the Champions League.
In order
CL winners
EL winners
League winners
2nd
3rd
4th
But a max of 5 so 4th can miss out.0 -
Roy Smart, for two. Hasn't quite made the headlines yet, newspapers probably waiting until the blood libeller from Hillingdon has had a full news cycle.TheScreamingEagles said:
Alan Bull for starters, prospective Labour councillor.Yorkcity said:
Who is denying the Holocaust ? I wish someone would name them, their position , then surely it could be dealt with with If they are members of the party , they should be thrown out.Cyclefree said:A few comments on Corbyn:-
1. When Corbyn first became a candidate for leader, quite a few raised concerns for precisely the reasons which have become evident in recent days - and were roundly poo-poohed. We were told not to be silly and that Corbyn could not be blamed for whom he happened to be standing next to. Well, as we’ve seen (and as some of us said at the time) he did not “happen” to stand by these people. He chose to do so.
2. The risks for Labour now are two-fold:-
- that more is uncovered which relates to Corbyn directly: what he may have said or done in the past.
- that there is some violence or atrocity and that there are not many degrees of separation between the perpetrators and the Labour leadership. I fervently hope this does not happen.
It is sad, very sad, that Labour should have come to this.
What is also very worrying that some should be sanguine at the prospect of Holocaust deniers being given a free pass. Quite apart from questions of moral decency, these are people who deny facts - provable facts - and to have such people anywhere near public policy is very worrying.
http://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/labour-alan-bull-council-holocaust-hoax/
It is because of this Christine Shawcroft had to resign.
https://www.reddit.com/r/LabourUK/comments/88rmso/some_facebook_posts_of_roy_smart_labour_council/
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Julian Baggini was one of the reasons I was disappointed that Radio 4 decided not to include non-religious contributors to thought for the day. Here he has some typically sensible advice for atheists struggling with the nature of belief.tyson said:Floater said:
Absolutely - I saw a report recently which showed christians were the most persecuted religion world wideCyclefree said:Happy Easter to all.
Perhaps at this time we might remember some of those oppressed in the Middle East - https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/12076/iraq-christians-disappeared. Prince Charles was right to raise their plight.
It is so sad to think that Christianity might vanish from the place of its birth.
What comes around goes around as they say.....
What I find surprising is that human beings still believe in supernatural beings en masse and are quite willing to behave in quite extreme ways in pursuit of their really quite absurd beliefs....
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/apr/01/atheists-logic-easter-faith-belief0 -
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5566951/Headache-Corbyn-Labour-picks-candidate-edited-paper-ran-anti-Semitic-stories.html
He added: 'I have never been anti-Semitic. I was expecting this - it's normal that any pro-Israelis wouldn't want any pro-Palestinians to run in the May election.
Those pesky zionists
0 -
I think you mean "Zios"Floater said:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5566951/Headache-Corbyn-Labour-picks-candidate-edited-paper-ran-anti-Semitic-stories.html
He added: 'I have never been anti-Semitic. I was expecting this - it's normal that any pro-Israelis wouldn't want any pro-Palestinians to run in the May election.
Those pesky zionists0 -
I find it hard to fathom .Never met anyone ever denying the Holocaust.The only mention I remember was years ago , when a poster on here ,was said to be one.However never read his posts on the subject.So maybe they were deleted by the moderators on this site.Recidivist said:
The near total absence of evidence for this story is its most remarkable feature.Yorkcity said:
Who is denying the Holocaust ? I wish someone would name them, their position , then surely it could be dealt with with If they are members of the party , they should be thrown out.Cyclefree said:A few comments on Corbyn:-
1. When Corbyn first became a candidate for leader, quite a few raised concerns for precisely the reasons which have become evident in recent days - and were roundly poo-poohed. We were told not to be silly and that Corbyn could not be blamed for whom he happened to be standing next to. Well, as we’ve seen (and as some of us said at the time) he did not “happen” to stand by these people. He chose to do so.
2. The risks for Labour now are two-fold:-
- that more is uncovered which relates to Corbyn directly: what he may have said or done in the past.
- that there is some violence or atrocity and that there are not many degrees of separation between the perpetrators and the Labour leadership. I fervently hope this does not happen.
It is sad, very sad, that Labour should have come to this.
What is also very worrying that some should be sanguine at the prospect of Holocaust deniers being given a free pass. Quite apart from questions of moral decency, these are people who deny facts - provable facts - and to have such people anywhere near public policy is very worrying.0 -
McCarthyism lives!Floater said:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5566951/Headache-Corbyn-Labour-picks-candidate-edited-paper-ran-anti-Semitic-stories.html
He added: 'I have never been anti-Semitic. I was expecting this - it's normal that any pro-Israelis wouldn't want any pro-Palestinians to run in the May election.
Those pesky zionists0 -
https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/03/labours-pockets-of-anti-semitism-the-evidence/Recidivist said:
The near total absence of evidence for this story is its most remarkable feature.Yorkcity said:
Who is denying the Holocaust ? I wish someone would name them, their position , then surely it could be dealt with with If they are members of the party , they should be thrown out.Cyclefree said:A few comments on Corbyn:-
1. When Corbyn first became a candidate for leader, quite a few raised concerns for precisely the reasons which have become evident in recent days - and were roundly poo-poohed. We were told not to be silly and that Corbyn could not be blamed for whom he happened to be standing next to. Well, as we’ve seen (and as some of us said at the time) he did not “happen” to stand by these people. He chose to do so.
2. The risks for Labour now are two-fold:-
- that more is uncovered which relates to Corbyn directly: what he may have said or done in the past.
- that there is some violence or atrocity and that there are not many degrees of separation between the perpetrators and the Labour leadership. I fervently hope this does not happen.
It is sad, very sad, that Labour should have come to this.
What is also very worrying that some should be sanguine at the prospect of Holocaust deniers being given a free pass. Quite apart from questions of moral decency, these are people who deny facts - provable facts - and to have such people anywhere near public policy is very worrying.
Already linked to below. Of the 50 items listed 2,4*,5*,7*,9, 10, 26, 31, 46, 50 concern holocaust denial (asterisks for those where this is entirely explicit rather than by implication).0 -
Look, the media is controlled by the jewsFrancisUrquhart said:DaysHours since labour embroiled in a new antisemitism scandal....
any wannabe Corbynista knows that0 -
Not everyone who is anti-semitic is going to go so far as to be a holocaust denier. At least 1 such person has been found. But there is a self admitted problem with anti-semitism generally, whether or not all those anti-semites go so far as to be holocaust deniers.Yorkcity said:
I find it hard to fathom .Never met anyone ever denying the Holocaust.The only mention I remember was years ago , when a poster on here ,was said to be one.However never read his posts on the subject.So maybe they were deleted by the moderators on this site.Recidivist said:
The near total absence of evidence for this story is its most remarkable feature.Yorkcity said:
Who is denying the Holocaust ? I wish someone would name them, their position , then surely it could be dealt with with If they are members of the party , they should be thrown out.Cyclefree said:A few comments on Corbyn:-
1. When Corbyn first became a candidate for leader, quite a few raised concerns for precisely the reasons which have become evident in recent days - and were roundly poo-poohed. We were told not to be silly and that Corbyn could not be blamed for whom he happened to be standing next to. Well, as we’ve seen (and as some of us said at the time) he did not “happen” to stand by these people. He chose to do so.
2. The risks for Labour now are two-fold:-
- that more is uncovered which relates to Corbyn directly: what he may have said or done in the past.
- that there is some violence or atrocity and that there are not many degrees of separation between the perpetrators and the Labour leadership. I fervently hope this does not happen.
It is sad, very sad, that Labour should have come to this.
What is also very worrying that some should be sanguine at the prospect of Holocaust deniers being given a free pass. Quite apart from questions of moral decency, these are people who deny facts - provable facts - and to have such people anywhere near public policy is very worrying.
So I don't really know what you are finding so hard to fathom - is it better that the self admitted problem of anti-semitism is not going to take the form of all those found being holocaust deniers? I guess, but that's still not great. I wish the party well in tossing out all its anti-semites, and hope other parties are performing their own checks right now too.0 -
I appreciate that , but Holocaust deniers , I asked Cyclefree to name them.As I was not aware that was a major problem anywhere to be honest , just a few cranks and an historian , I ever remember.kle4 said:
The whole story or just parts of it? There must be evidence of parts of it, because no way the leader of a party says there is a problem with anti-semitism in their party unless they are certain it exists.Recidivist said:
The near total absence of evidence for this story is its most remarkable feature.Yorkcity said:
Who is denying the Holocaust ? I wish someone would name them, their position , then surely it could be dealt with with If they are members of the party , they should be thrown out.Cyclefree said:A few comments on Corbyn:-
1. When Corbyn first became a candidate for leader, quite a few raised concerns for precisely the reasons which have become evident in recent days - and were roundly poo-poohed. We were told not to be silly and that Corbyn could not be blamed for whom he happened to be standing next to. Well, as we’ve seen (and as some of us said at the time) he did not “happen” to stand by these people. He chose to do so.
2. The risks for Labour now are two-fold:-
- that more is uncovered which relates to Corbyn directly: what he may have said or done in the past.
- that there is some violence or atrocity and that there are not many degrees of separation between the perpetrators and the Labour leadership. I fervently hope this does not happen.
It is sad, very sad, that Labour should have come to this.
What is also very worrying that some should be sanguine at the prospect of Holocaust deniers being given a free pass. Quite apart from questions of moral decency, these are people who deny facts - provable facts - and to have such people anywhere near public policy is very worrying.0 -
Why are pro-Israelis interested in local elections in England?Floater said:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5566951/Headache-Corbyn-Labour-picks-candidate-edited-paper-ran-anti-Semitic-stories.html
He added: 'I have never been anti-Semitic. I was expecting this - it's normal that any pro-Israelis wouldn't want any pro-Palestinians to run in the May election.
Those pesky zionists0
