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SystemSystem Posts: 12,679
edited March 2018 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The continuing strength of the SNP make it is harder for Corbyn to become PM

Today’s YouGov LAB members has one finding that shows the extraordinary optimism of those who backed Corbyn in the last leadership election. 80% of them told the poster that they believed that Mr Corbyn would at sometime become Prime Minister.

Read the full story here


«13

Comments

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,216
    First.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Completely disagreed. If Labour win enough seats in England to win power with the support of the SNP then do you seriously suggest that the SNP will prop up the Tories instead of installing Labour?

    Especially bearing in mind that the next election if it runs to term will be in 2022 and the Tories would have been in Downing Street for a dozen years. The SNP won't want to be seen to maintain that for longer.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,745
    edited March 2018
    Philip_Thompson said:

    Completely disagreed. If Labour win enough seats in England to win power with the support of the SNP then do you seriously suggest that the SNP will prop up the Tories instead of installing Labour?

    Especially bearing in mind that the next election if it runs to term will be in 2022 and the Tories would have been in Downing Street for a dozen years. The SNP won't want to be seen to maintain that for longer.

    Well it was thanks to the SNP we had 18 years of Tory rule/Thatcherism.

    You could also argue that the SNP helped the Tories win a majority in 2015, instead of the Tories being the largest party in the Parliament.

    There was also a de facto SNP/Tory alliance at Holyrood between 2007-11.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,455
    If there were an election tomorrow I would say SNP 30 (-5), CON 10 (-3) LD 5 (+1) LAB 14 (+7)
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    If Labour age going to get a majority I think we need to get around 20 more seats in Scotland.

    I think this is one area where time passing may favour Labour (it may not as well) my hope would be more voters fall away from the SNP, ideally to Labour but by not voting for the SNP again they would help us in quite a few of the seats.

    Also in regards to the article it is 80% that think Corbyn is doing well and 64% that think it is very likely or fairly likely he will be PM.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,866
    Philip_Thompson said:

    Completely disagreed. If Labour win enough seats in England to win power with the support of the SNP then do you seriously suggest that the SNP will prop up the Tories instead of installing Labour?

    Especially bearing in mind that the next election if it runs to term will be in 2022 and the Tories would have been in Downing Street for a dozen years. The SNP won't want to be seen to maintain that for longer.

    The SNP would probably try and make the UK ungoverable at Westminster. Keep voting down Budgets. Get it to the point where we were delighted to see them wave rUK cheerio.....
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,889
    Of course, that has to persist to 2022 (probably).

    FPT: Miss JGP, a very interesting observation. I'm not sure if that would apply to motorsport, but being able to alter the weight of your legs (presumably if he makes it to F1 they'll have a race pair that's as light as possible) would be helpful). The acceleration/deceleration is comparable to a a plane, though so it might help that way too.

    FPT: Mr. Sandpit, aye, he really appears to have his head screwed on right.

    Speaking of deleted tweets, pathologically EU-phile propaganda organ The New European has deleted this one, possibly after everyone pointed out the logical flaw in their outrage:
    https://twitter.com/Welshracer/status/980111040817004544
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,866
    TheJezziah said:

    If Labour age going to get a majority I think we need to get around 20 more seats in Scotland.

    I think this is one area where time passing may favour Labour (it may not as well) my hope would be more voters fall away from the SNP, ideally to Labour but by not voting for the SNP again they would help us in quite a few of the seats.

    Also in regards to the article it is 80% that think Corbyn is doing well and 64% that think it is very likely or fairly likely he will be PM.

    That was polling of Labour members. They might just not reflect the views of the wider electorate.....
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,745
    edited March 2018
    I wonder what happens if Nicola Sturgeon doesn't call another independence referendum.

    She might be stuck between a rock and a hard place.

    She's not stupid, she knows if the Nats lose another referendum that really will settle it for a generation and then some but if she doesn't call a referendum then she'll be facing an insurrection from her own side.

    I wonder if she'll call a non section 30 authorised referendum. I'd hope Mrs May would handle it better than the powers that be in Madrid.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,647
    Scotland depends very much on how many/few are prepared to tactically vote. There are few 3 way marginals (Lanark and Hamilton East being one), and no Labour/Tory ones. Is there any polling evidence to show how many would be willing to shift their votes to keep SNP, Tory or Labour out?
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    TheJezziah said:

    If Labour age going to get a majority I think we need to get around 20 more seats in Scotland.

    I think this is one area where time passing may favour Labour (it may not as well) my hope would be more voters fall away from the SNP, ideally to Labour but by not voting for the SNP again they would help us in quite a few of the seats.

    Also in regards to the article it is 80% that think Corbyn is doing well and 64% that think it is very likely or fairly likely he will be PM.

    Probably the stupidest comment you've ever posted. This poll was of LAB members not voters as a whole so quoting the 80% is hardly relevant.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    edited March 2018
    MarqueeMark said:

    TheJezziah said:

    If Labour age going to get a majority I think we need to get around 20 more seats in Scotland.

    I think this is one area where time passing may favour Labour (it may not as well) my hope would be more voters fall away from the SNP, ideally to Labour but by not voting for the SNP again they would help us in quite a few of the seats.

    Also in regards to the article it is 80% that think Corbyn is doing well and 64% that think it is very likely or fairly likely he will be PM.

    That was polling of Labour members. They might just not reflect the views of the wider electorate.....
    I was correcting the article where it referenced 80% of Labour members think Corbyn will be PM, I think it was confused with the doing well statistic, which is at 80% whereas the will be PM, made up of fairly likely and very likely is 64%

    None of the numbers were intended as reflective of the wider voting public..

    Edit: TSE it is part of my hope for people moving away from the SNP, they may become disillusioned if she doesn't call one.

    Edit 2: I specifically mentioned in my comment 'the article' maybe this is unclear language on my behalf but I am talking about the write up at top of the page.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,533
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Of course, that has to persist to 2022 (probably).

    FPT: Miss JGP, a very interesting observation. I'm not sure if that would apply to motorsport, but being able to alter the weight of your legs (presumably if he makes it to F1 they'll have a race pair that's as light as possible) would be helpful). The acceleration/deceleration is comparable to a a plane, though so it might help that way too.

    FPT: Mr. Sandpit, aye, he really appears to have his head screwed on right.

    Speaking of deleted tweets, pathologically EU-phile propaganda organ The New European has deleted this one, possibly after everyone pointed out the logical flaw in their outrage:
    https://twitter.com/Welshracer/status/980111040817004544

    If he hadn't traveled much, they would be complaining that he wasn't doing enough to try and sort out post-Brexit arrangements...
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    MikeSmithson said:

    TheJezziah said:

    If Labour age going to get a majority I think we need to get around 20 more seats in Scotland.

    I think this is one area where time passing may favour Labour (it may not as well) my hope would be more voters fall away from the SNP, ideally to Labour but by not voting for the SNP again they would help us in quite a few of the seats.

    Also in regards to the article it is 80% that think Corbyn is doing well and 64% that think it is very likely or fairly likely he will be PM.

    Probably the stupidest comment you've ever posted. This poll was of LAB members not voters as a whole so quoting the 80% is hardly relevant.
    I don't think I've ever agreed with TheJezziah but that's unnecessarily offensive. The article says "80% of them told the poster that they believed that Mr Corbyn would at sometime become Prime Minister" so it seems entirely relevant to point out that the correct figure was 64%.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    TheJezziah said:

    Edit 2: I specifically mentioned in my comment 'the article' maybe this is unclear language on my behalf but I am talking about the write up at top of the page.

    I understood what you meant and appreciated your correction to the figures.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I wonder what happens if Nicola Sturgeon doesn't call another independence referendum.

    She might be stuck between a rock and a hard place.

    She's not stupid, she knows if the Nats lose another referendum that really will settle it for a generation and then some but if she doesn't call a referendum then she'll be facing an insurrection from her own side.

    I wonder if she'll call a non section 30 authorised referendum. I'd hope Mrs May would handle it better than the powers that be in Madrid.

    Difficult to do that without a sustained period of asking for one and being turned down.

    Danger of that is May could call her bluff and say yes.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    edited March 2018
    Thank you Phillip, I assume it was based on a misreading on what I was trying to say. A point of correction rather than evidence of some point I am trying to make.

    Edit: Also to clarify It was an accuracy thing rather than a catching a mistake thing.

  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,271
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I wonder what happens if Nicola Sturgeon doesn't call another independence referendum.

    She might be stuck between a rock and a hard place.

    She's not stupid, she knows if the Nats lose another referendum that really will settle it for a generation and then some but if she doesn't call a referendum then she'll be facing an insurrection from her own side.

    I wonder if she'll call a non section 30 authorised referendum. I'd hope Mrs May would handle it better than the powers than be in Madrid.

    The SNP exists to make Scotland independent. They will always push for independence if they have the chance. The leadership could make a tactical case for limited delay if they think they will get a better result later. On the whole I think they would prefer to have tried and failed than to seem to let chances slip away. The SNP would demand a price to support a Labour government in Westminster. That price could well be another independence referendum. Labour and the SNP loathe each other but the fact is most SNP support is ex-Labour voters and any future Labour renaissance in Scotland depends on getting SNP voters to switch. Labour will have a partisan incentive to be open towards independence.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,880
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Of course, that has to persist to 2022 (probably).

    FPT: Miss JGP, a very interesting observation. I'm not sure if that would apply to motorsport, but being able to alter the weight of your legs (presumably if he makes it to F1 they'll have a race pair that's as light as possible) would be helpful). The acceleration/deceleration is comparable to a a plane, though so it might help that way too.

    FPT: Mr. Sandpit, aye, he really appears to have his head screwed on right.

    Speaking of deleted tweets, pathologically EU-phile propaganda organ The New European has deleted this one, possibly after everyone pointed out the logical flaw in their outrage:
    https://twitter.com/Welshracer/status/980111040817004544

    If he hadn't traveled much, they would be complaining that he wasn't doing enough to try and sort out post-Brexit arrangements...
    Quite. I find it difficult to get too upset about travel arrangements for Cabinet ministers when on official business. As distinct from taxpayers’ money spent on various jollies to ‘conferences’ which have a habit of being in rather nice places at convenient times of year.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,155
    TheJezziah said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    TheJezziah said:

    If Labour age going to get a majority I think we need to get around 20 more seats in Scotland.

    I think this is one area where time passing may favour Labour (it may not as well) my hope would be more voters fall away from the SNP, ideally to Labour but by not voting for the SNP again they would help us in quite a few of the seats.

    Also in regards to the article it is 80% that think Corbyn is doing well and 64% that think it is very likely or fairly likely he will be PM.

    That was polling of Labour members. They might just not reflect the views of the wider electorate.....
    I was correcting the article where it referenced 80% of Labour members think Corbyn will be PM, I think it was confused with the doing well statistic, which is at 80% whereas the will be PM, made up of fairly likely and very likely is 64%

    None of the numbers were intended as reflective of the wider voting public..

    Edit: TSE it is part of my hope for people moving away from the SNP, they may become disillusioned if she doesn't call one.

    Edit 2: I specifically mentioned in my comment 'the article' maybe this is unclear language on my behalf but I am talking about the write up at top of the page.
    If voters move away from the SNP because a second indy ref isn't called, it would take some leap of logic for them to support a party lead by someone who has promised to 'campaign tirelessly against a second Scottish independence referendum'.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    They would be the ones (if they did it in any number) who would stop voting SNP (and help Labour catch up) rather than the ones converting to Labour. We have had some converts from the SNP but generally I would imagine the ones who would drift away from the SNP for that reason would not become Labour voters. I never actually said they would switch from the SNP to Labour for that reason.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,254
    I see that Asda are now selling five different types of British vegetables at 20p:

    https://groceries.asda.com/product/cabbage-brussels-sprouts/asda-growers-selection-spring-greens/392945

    https://groceries.asda.com/product/carrots/asda-growers-selection-carrots/30240

    https://groceries.asda.com/product/onions-leeks/asda-growers-selection-extra-trimmed-leeks/910002869199

    https://groceries.asda.com/product/parsnips-root-veg/asda-growers-selection-parsnips/910001160815

    https://groceries.asda.com/product/parsnips-root-veg/asda-growers-selection-british-swede/910003082671

    Yet the NFU and Guardian claim that there's a shortage of agricultural workers and food is rotting in the fields.

    About as believable as no Australian bowlers knowing the ball was being tampered with.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,258
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I wonder if she'll call a non section 30 authorised referendum. I'd hope Mrs May would handle it better than the powers that be in Madrid.

    Hard to imagine she would do worse.

    When I feel really depressed about the awfulness of our politicians, I remind myself that many countries have it worse - Spain, Greece, The European Commission, the US...
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,977
    MyBurningEars said:

    FPT and the debate on the future of Israel, with a few people somewhat confused by the apparent self-harm Israeli voters seemed keen on inflicting on themselves rather than grasping the nettle of peace, it's interesting to read about the transformational extent of Russian immigration from the former Soviet Union and how drastically it changed Israeli society and politics.

    https://www.haaretz.com/st/c/prod/eng/25yrs_russ_img/

    A very interesting article. Thanks for posting it.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,389
    Sandpit said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Of course, that has to persist to 2022 (probably).

    FPT: Miss JGP, a very interesting observation. I'm not sure if that would apply to motorsport, but being able to alter the weight of your legs (presumably if he makes it to F1 they'll have a race pair that's as light as possible) would be helpful). The acceleration/deceleration is comparable to a a plane, though so it might help that way too.

    FPT: Mr. Sandpit, aye, he really appears to have his head screwed on right.

    Speaking of deleted tweets, pathologically EU-phile propaganda organ The New European has deleted this one, possibly after everyone pointed out the logical flaw in their outrage:
    https://twitter.com/Welshracer/status/980111040817004544

    If he hadn't traveled much, they would be complaining that he wasn't doing enough to try and sort out post-Brexit arrangements...
    Quite. I find it difficult to get too upset about travel arrangements for Cabinet ministers when on official business. As distinct from taxpayers’ money spent on various jollies to ‘conferences’ which have a habit of being in rather nice places at convenient times of year.
    I once went to a conference in Dubai in August.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,222
    I am not so sure the SNP winning most seats in Scotland stops Corbyn becoming PM.

    It makes it more difficult for Labour to win an overall majority at the last general election but given Sturgeon made clear last month the SNP would provide Corbyn with confidence and supply that does not necessarily prevent Corbyn becoming PM even if it is another hung parliament and the Tories do not again have enough seats with the DUP for a majority
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,222
    FF43 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I wonder what happens if Nicola Sturgeon doesn't call another independence referendum.

    She might be stuck between a rock and a hard place.

    She's not stupid, she knows if the Nats lose another referendum that really will settle it for a generation and then some but if she doesn't call a referendum then she'll be facing an insurrection from her own side.

    I wonder if she'll call a non section 30 authorised referendum. I'd hope Mrs May would handle it better than the powers than be in Madrid.

    The SNP exists to make Scotland independent. They will always push for independence if they have the chance. The leadership could make a tactical case for limited delay if they think they will get a better result later. On the whole I think they would prefer to have tried and failed than to seem to let chances slip away. The SNP would demand a price to support a Labour government in Westminster. That price could well be another independence referendum. Labour and the SNP loathe each other but the fact is most SNP support is ex-Labour voters and any future Labour renaissance in Scotland depends on getting SNP voters to switch. Labour will have a partisan incentive to be open towards independence.
    The next Holyrood elections fall in 2021 ie the year before the next general election and current polls give Unionist parties a majority in the Scottish Parliament which has a PR element unlike Westminster.

    If there is a Unionist majority at Holyrood Westminster would certainly block any indyref2 proposal so that would not be part of any SNP confidence and supply deal
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,866
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Of course, that has to persist to 2022 (probably).

    FPT: Miss JGP, a very interesting observation. I'm not sure if that would apply to motorsport, but being able to alter the weight of your legs (presumably if he makes it to F1 they'll have a race pair that's as light as possible) would be helpful). The acceleration/deceleration is comparable to a a plane, though so it might help that way too.

    FPT: Mr. Sandpit, aye, he really appears to have his head screwed on right.

    Speaking of deleted tweets, pathologically EU-phile propaganda organ The New European has deleted this one, possibly after everyone pointed out the logical flaw in their outrage:
    https://twitter.com/Welshracer/status/980111040817004544

    If he hadn't traveled much, they would be complaining that he wasn't doing enough to try and sort out post-Brexit arrangements...
    Quite. I find it difficult to get too upset about travel arrangements for Cabinet ministers when on official business. As distinct from taxpayers’ money spent on various jollies to ‘conferences’ which have a habit of being in rather nice places at convenient times of year.
    I once went to a conference in Dubai in August.
    Poor planning by somebody. I assume most of Dubai was in London?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,880
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Of course, that has to persist to 2022 (probably).

    FPT: Miss JGP, a very interesting observation. I'm not sure if that would apply to motorsport, but being able to alter the weight of your legs (presumably if he makes it to F1 they'll have a race pair that's as light as possible) would be helpful). The acceleration/deceleration is comparable to a a plane, though so it might help that way too.

    FPT: Mr. Sandpit, aye, he really appears to have his head screwed on right.

    Speaking of deleted tweets, pathologically EU-phile propaganda organ The New European has deleted this one, possibly after everyone pointed out the logical flaw in their outrage:
    https://twitter.com/Welshracer/status/980111040817004544

    If he hadn't traveled much, they would be complaining that he wasn't doing enough to try and sort out post-Brexit arrangements...
    Quite. I find it difficult to get too upset about travel arrangements for Cabinet ministers when on official business. As distinct from taxpayers’ money spent on various jollies to ‘conferences’ which have a habit of being in rather nice places at convenient times of year.
    I once went to a conference in Dubai in August.
    That’s a silly idea, those of us who live here will do almost anything to escape in August!

    It’s amazing how many British tourists turn up every summer though, not wondering why the 5* beach resorts are all half the price they are in the winter.
  • prh47bridgeprh47bridge Posts: 483
    Philip_Thompson said:

    MikeSmithson said:

    TheJezziah said:

    If Labour age going to get a majority I think we need to get around 20 more seats in Scotland.

    I think this is one area where time passing may favour Labour (it may not as well) my hope would be more voters fall away from the SNP, ideally to Labour but by not voting for the SNP again they would help us in quite a few of the seats.

    Also in regards to the article it is 80% that think Corbyn is doing well and 64% that think it is very likely or fairly likely he will be PM.

    Probably the stupidest comment you've ever posted. This poll was of LAB members not voters as a whole so quoting the 80% is hardly relevant.
    I don't think I've ever agreed with TheJezziah but that's unnecessarily offensive. The article says "80% of them told the poster that they believed that Mr Corbyn would at sometime become Prime Minister" so it seems entirely relevant to point out that the correct figure was 64%.
    I agree Mike's comment is unnecessarily offensive. However, the problem is that the thread header isn't as clear as it could be. I, like TheJezziah, initially read it as saying 80% of Labour members think Corbyn will become Prime Minister. However, having looked at the poll and re-read the first couple of sentences of the thread header, I can see Mike meant that 80% of those Labour members who say they supported Corbyn in the last leadership election (vs Jones) think he will be PM.
  • BromptonautBromptonaut Posts: 1,113
    another_richard said:

    I see that Asda are now selling five different types of British vegetables at 20p:

    https://groceries.asda.com/product/cabbage-brussels-sprouts/asda-growers-selection-spring-greens/392945

    https://groceries.asda.com/product/carrots/asda-growers-selection-carrots/30240

    https://groceries.asda.com/product/onions-leeks/asda-growers-selection-extra-trimmed-leeks/910002869199

    https://groceries.asda.com/product/parsnips-root-veg/asda-growers-selection-parsnips/910001160815

    https://groceries.asda.com/product/parsnips-root-veg/asda-growers-selection-british-swede/910003082671

    Yet the NFU and Guardian claim that there's a shortage of agricultural workers and food is rotting in the fields.

    About as believable as no Australian bowlers knowing the ball was being tampered with.

    We haven’t left yet.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,880
    edited March 2018
    MarqueeMark said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Of course, that has to persist to 2022 (probably).

    FPT: Miss JGP, a very interesting observation. I'm not sure if that would apply to motorsport, but being able to alter the weight of your legs (presumably if he makes it to F1 they'll have a race pair that's as light as possible) would be helpful). The acceleration/deceleration is comparable to a a plane, though so it might help that way too.

    FPT: Mr. Sandpit, aye, he really appears to have his head screwed on right.

    Speaking of deleted tweets, pathologically EU-phile propaganda organ The New European has deleted this one, possibly after everyone pointed out the logical flaw in their outrage:
    https://twitter.com/Welshracer/status/980111040817004544

    If he hadn't traveled much, they would be complaining that he wasn't doing enough to try and sort out post-Brexit arrangements...
    Quite. I find it difficult to get too upset about travel arrangements for Cabinet ministers when on official business. As distinct from taxpayers’ money spent on various jollies to ‘conferences’ which have a habit of being in rather nice places at convenient times of year.
    I once went to a conference in Dubai in August.
    Poor planning by somebody. I assume most of Dubai was in London?
    Yup!

    I’ve a UK based client I meet with every couple of months - he comes to me in the winter and I go to him in the summer! The heat and humidity are quite horrible.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,216
    Bromptonaut said:

    another_richard said:

    I see that Asda are now selling five different types of British vegetables at 20p:

    https://groceries.asda.com/product/cabbage-brussels-sprouts/asda-growers-selection-spring-greens/392945

    https://groceries.asda.com/product/carrots/asda-growers-selection-carrots/30240

    https://groceries.asda.com/product/onions-leeks/asda-growers-selection-extra-trimmed-leeks/910002869199

    https://groceries.asda.com/product/parsnips-root-veg/asda-growers-selection-parsnips/910001160815

    https://groceries.asda.com/product/parsnips-root-veg/asda-growers-selection-british-swede/910003082671

    Yet the NFU and Guardian claim that there's a shortage of agricultural workers and food is rotting in the fields.

    About as believable as no Australian bowlers knowing the ball was being tampered with.

    We haven’t left yet.
    Tell that to the Guardian...

    https://tinyurl.com/yd39scmx

    ;)
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I wonder what happens if Nicola Sturgeon doesn't call another independence referendum.

    She might be stuck between a rock and a hard place.

    She's not stupid, she knows if the Nats lose another referendum that really will settle it for a generation and then some but if she doesn't call a referendum then she'll be facing an insurrection from her own side.

    I wonder if she'll call a non section 30 authorised referendum. I'd hope Mrs May would handle it better than the powers that be in Madrid.

    Originally her timeline was after we know what the Brexit deal looks like but before it's too late to choose a different course. Given a standstill transition her calculus will surely be different as the logic for independence strengthens once the UK is in a "vassal state" position, and UK secession combined with EU accession can be pitched as taking back control. In those circumstances unionist pro-Europeans would be pushed towards support for independence, and Eurosceptic indy-supporters would be marginalised.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,155
    Marvellous stuff, get the ungrateful little blighters down the innovative jam mines and up the global chimneys.

    https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/979849108889440256
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,254
    Bromptonaut said:

    another_richard said:

    I see that Asda are now selling five different types of British vegetables at 20p:

    https://groceries.asda.com/product/cabbage-brussels-sprouts/asda-growers-selection-spring-greens/392945

    https://groceries.asda.com/product/carrots/asda-growers-selection-carrots/30240

    https://groceries.asda.com/product/onions-leeks/asda-growers-selection-extra-trimmed-leeks/910002869199

    https://groceries.asda.com/product/parsnips-root-veg/asda-growers-selection-parsnips/910001160815

    https://groceries.asda.com/product/parsnips-root-veg/asda-growers-selection-british-swede/910003082671

    Yet the NFU and Guardian claim that there's a shortage of agricultural workers and food is rotting in the fields.

    About as believable as no Australian bowlers knowing the ball was being tampered with.

    We haven’t left yet.
    Even Scott has given up using that excuse.

    A Leave vote mean the 2016 harvest will rot in the fields, errr the 2017 harvest will rot in the fields, errr the 2018 harvest will rot in the fields, errr the 2019 harvest will rot in the fields ...

    This is the problem with pedalling claims about food rotting in the fields - the supermarkets will expose them as lies.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,705
    Bromptonaut said:

    another_richard said:

    I see that Asda are now selling five different types of British vegetables at 20p:

    https://groceries.asda.com/product/cabbage-brussels-sprouts/asda-growers-selection-spring-greens/392945

    https://groceries.asda.com/product/carrots/asda-growers-selection-carrots/30240

    https://groceries.asda.com/product/onions-leeks/asda-growers-selection-extra-trimmed-leeks/910002869199

    https://groceries.asda.com/product/parsnips-root-veg/asda-growers-selection-parsnips/910001160815

    https://groceries.asda.com/product/parsnips-root-veg/asda-growers-selection-british-swede/910003082671

    Yet the NFU and Guardian claim that there's a shortage of agricultural workers and food is rotting in the fields.

    About as believable as no Australian bowlers knowing the ball was being tampered with.

    We haven’t left yet.
    Do you think SAWS is going to end?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,258
    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I wonder what happens if Nicola Sturgeon doesn't call another independence referendum.

    She might be stuck between a rock and a hard place.

    She's not stupid, she knows if the Nats lose another referendum that really will settle it for a generation and then some but if she doesn't call a referendum then she'll be facing an insurrection from her own side.

    I wonder if she'll call a non section 30 authorised referendum. I'd hope Mrs May would handle it better than the powers than be in Madrid.

    The SNP exists to make Scotland independent. They will always push for independence if they have the chance. The leadership could make a tactical case for limited delay if they think they will get a better result later. On the whole I think they would prefer to have tried and failed than to seem to let chances slip away. The SNP would demand a price to support a Labour government in Westminster. That price could well be another independence referendum. Labour and the SNP loathe each other but the fact is most SNP support is ex-Labour voters and any future Labour renaissance in Scotland depends on getting SNP voters to switch. Labour will have a partisan incentive to be open towards independence.
    The next Holyrood elections fall in 2021 ie the year before the next general election and current polls give Unionist parties a majority in the Scottish Parliament which has a PR element unlike Westminster.

    If there is a Unionist majority at Holyrood Westminster would certainly block any indyref2 proposal so that would not be part of any SNP confidence and supply deal
    If there is a Unionist majority at Holyrood, no referendum will (can) be requested.

    But who then becomes the government of Scotland given that Labour would certainly not support the Conservatives?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Theuniondivvie said:

    Marvellous stuff, get the ungrateful little blighters down the innovative jam mines and up the global chimneys.

    https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/979849108889440256

    That shows you to be pathetic not McVey. A teenager working on a Saturday isn't remotely equivalent to a chimneysweep.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,222
    williamglenn said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I wonder what happens if Nicola Sturgeon doesn't call another independence referendum.

    She might be stuck between a rock and a hard place.

    She's not stupid, she knows if the Nats lose another referendum that really will settle it for a generation and then some but if she doesn't call a referendum then she'll be facing an insurrection from her own side.

    I wonder if she'll call a non section 30 authorised referendum. I'd hope Mrs May would handle it better than the powers that be in Madrid.

    Originally her timeline was after we know what the Brexit deal looks like but before it's too late to choose a different course. Given a standstill transition her calculus will surely be different as the logic for independence strengthens once the UK is in a "vassal state" position, and UK secession combined with EU accession can be pitched as taking back control. In those circumstances unionist pro-Europeans would be pushed towards support for independence, and Eurosceptic indy-supporters would be marginalised.
    May and Westminster would block any indyref2 call anyway, Sturgeon's mandate for that went when she lost so many SNP MPs at GE 2017 after she started to push the issue
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I wonder what happens if Nicola Sturgeon doesn't call another independence referendum.

    She might be stuck between a rock and a hard place.

    She's not stupid, she knows if the Nats lose another referendum that really will settle it for a generation and then some but if she doesn't call a referendum then she'll be facing an insurrection from her own side.

    I wonder if she'll call a non section 30 authorised referendum. I'd hope Mrs May would handle it better than the powers than be in Madrid.

    The SNP exists to make Scotland independent. They will always push for independence if they have the chance. The leadership could make a tactical case for limited delay if they think they will get a better result later. On the whole I think they would prefer to have tried and failed than to seem to let chances slip away. The SNP would demand a price to support a Labour government in Westminster. That price could well be another independence referendum. Labour and the SNP loathe each other but the fact is most SNP support is ex-Labour voters and any future Labour renaissance in Scotland depends on getting SNP voters to switch. Labour will have a partisan incentive to be open towards independence.
    The next Holyrood elections fall in 2021 ie the year before the next general election and current polls give Unionist parties a majority in the Scottish Parliament which has a PR element unlike Westminster.

    If there is a Unionist majority at Holyrood Westminster would certainly block any indyref2 proposal so that would not be part of any SNP confidence and supply deal
    If there is a Unionist majority at Holyrood, no referendum will (can) be requested.

    But who then becomes the government of Scotland given that Labour would certainly not support the Conservatives?
    It could be like 2007-11 were the largest party takes over with the acquiescence of the others as there is no alternative but no major constitutional issues are dealt with and governance is done on an issue by issue basis on where a majority can be found.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,222
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    FF43 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I wonder what happens if Nicola Sturgeon doesn't call another independence referendum.

    She might be stuck between a rock and a hard place.

    She's not stupid, she knows if the Nats lose another referendum that really will settle it for a generation and then some but if she doesn't call a referendum then she'll be facing an insurrection from her own side.

    I wonder if she'll call a non section 30 authorised referendum. I'd hope Mrs May would handle it better than the powers than be in Madrid.

    The SNP exists to make Scotland independent. They will always push for independence if they have the chance. The leadership could make a tactical case for limited delay if they think they will get a better result later. On the whole I think they would prefer to have tried and failed than to seem to let chances slip away. The SNP would demand a price to support a Labour government in Westminster. That price could well be another independence referendum. Labour and the SNP loathe each other but the fact is most SNP support is ex-Labour voters and any future Labour renaissance in Scotland depends on getting SNP voters to switch. Labour will have a partisan incentive to be open towards independence.
    The next Holyrood elections fall in 2021 ie the year before the next general election and current polls give Unionist parties a majority in the Scottish Parliament which has a PR element unlike Westminster.

    If there is a Unionist majority at Holyrood Westminster would certainly block any indyref2 proposal so that would not be part of any SNP confidence and supply deal
    If there is a Unionist majority at Holyrood, no referendum will (can) be requested.

    But who then becomes the government of Scotland given that Labour would certainly not support the Conservatives?
    Sturgeon would form a minority government most likely as Salmond did from 2007 to 2011 but yes another indyref would not be on the cards
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,271
    another_richard said:

    I see that Asda are now selling five different types of British vegetables at 20p:

    https://groceries.asda.com/product/cabbage-brussels-sprouts/asda-growers-selection-spring-greens/392945

    https://groceries.asda.com/product/carrots/asda-growers-selection-carrots/30240

    https://groceries.asda.com/product/onions-leeks/asda-growers-selection-extra-trimmed-leeks/910002869199

    https://groceries.asda.com/product/parsnips-root-veg/asda-growers-selection-parsnips/910001160815

    https://groceries.asda.com/product/parsnips-root-veg/asda-growers-selection-british-swede/910003082671

    Yet the NFU and Guardian claim that there's a shortage of agricultural workers and food is rotting in the fields.

    About as believable as no Australian bowlers knowing the ball was being tampered with.

    Migrant worker numbers down 15-20%, leading to a 10-15% shortfall in workers overall. Less than half of those that did come are certain of coming back next year. Bear in mind you plant the crops before you know who's going to pick them. There's definitely an issue. Enjoy the British vegetables while you still can.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-43529549
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    HYUFD said:

    williamglenn said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I wonder what happens if Nicola Sturgeon doesn't call another independence referendum.

    She might be stuck between a rock and a hard place.

    She's not stupid, she knows if the Nats lose another referendum that really will settle it for a generation and then some but if she doesn't call a referendum then she'll be facing an insurrection from her own side.

    I wonder if she'll call a non section 30 authorised referendum. I'd hope Mrs May would handle it better than the powers that be in Madrid.

    Originally her timeline was after we know what the Brexit deal looks like but before it's too late to choose a different course. Given a standstill transition her calculus will surely be different as the logic for independence strengthens once the UK is in a "vassal state" position, and UK secession combined with EU accession can be pitched as taking back control. In those circumstances unionist pro-Europeans would be pushed towards support for independence, and Eurosceptic indy-supporters would be marginalised.
    May and Westminster would block any indyref2 call anyway, Sturgeon's mandate for that went when she lost so many SNP MPs at GE 2017 after she started to push the issue
    The SNP have 59% of the Westminster seats. Losing seats has more impact on your mandate if it also means you lose your majority, like Theresa May did.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Of course, that has to persist to 2022 (probably).

    FPT: Miss JGP, a very interesting observation. I'm not sure if that would apply to motorsport, but being able to alter the weight of your legs (presumably if he makes it to F1 they'll have a race pair that's as light as possible) would be helpful). The acceleration/deceleration is comparable to a a plane, though so it might help that way too.

    FPT: Mr. Sandpit, aye, he really appears to have his head screwed on right.

    Speaking of deleted tweets, pathologically EU-phile propaganda organ The New European has deleted this one, possibly after everyone pointed out the logical flaw in their outrage:
    https://twitter.com/Welshracer/status/980111040817004544

    If he hadn't traveled much, they would be complaining that he wasn't doing enough to try and sort out post-Brexit arrangements...
    Quite. I find it difficult to get too upset about travel arrangements for Cabinet ministers when on official business. As distinct from taxpayers’ money spent on various jollies to ‘conferences’ which have a habit of being in rather nice places at convenient times of year.
    I once went to a conference in Dubai in August.
    You must have been short of Tier Points just before year end to inflict that on yourself...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,533
    edited March 2018
    Philip_Thompson said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    Marvellous stuff, get the ungrateful little blighters down the innovative jam mines and up the global chimneys.

    https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/979849108889440256

    That shows you to be pathetic not McVey. A teenager working on a Saturday isn't remotely equivalent to a chimneysweep.
    In my day, it was right of passage to do a Saturday job...also it wasn't a bad way to meet the opposite sex....Sounds like it has become the exception rather than the norm, the Saturday job, not the chasing skirt.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,155
    Philip_Thompson said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    Marvellous stuff, get the ungrateful little blighters down the innovative jam mines and up the global chimneys.

    https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/979849108889440256

    That shows you to be pathetic not McVey. A teenager working on a Saturday isn't remotely equivalent to a chimneysweep.
    Lighten up you humourless diddy.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,271
    edited March 2018
    tlg86 said:

    Bromptonaut said:

    another_richard said:

    I see that Asda are now selling five different types of British vegetables at 20p:

    https://groceries.asda.com/product/cabbage-brussels-sprouts/asda-growers-selection-spring-greens/392945

    https://groceries.asda.com/product/carrots/asda-growers-selection-carrots/30240

    https://groceries.asda.com/product/onions-leeks/asda-growers-selection-extra-trimmed-leeks/910002869199

    https://groceries.asda.com/product/parsnips-root-veg/asda-growers-selection-parsnips/910001160815

    https://groceries.asda.com/product/parsnips-root-veg/asda-growers-selection-british-swede/910003082671

    Yet the NFU and Guardian claim that there's a shortage of agricultural workers and food is rotting in the fields.

    About as believable as no Australian bowlers knowing the ball was being tampered with.

    We haven’t left yet.
    Tell that to the Guardian...

    https://tinyurl.com/yd39scmx

    ;)
    You don't need to tell the Guardian anything but you could inform yourself of the facts by reading a decently researched article on the topic.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    williamglenn said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I wonder what happens if Nicola Sturgeon doesn't call another independence referendum.

    She might be stuck between a rock and a hard place.

    She's not stupid, she knows if the Nats lose another referendum that really will settle it for a generation and then some but if she doesn't call a referendum then she'll be facing an insurrection from her own side.

    I wonder if she'll call a non section 30 authorised referendum. I'd hope Mrs May would handle it better than the powers that be in Madrid.

    Originally her timeline was after we know what the Brexit deal looks like but before it's too late to choose a different course. Given a standstill transition her calculus will surely be different as the logic for independence strengthens once the UK is in a "vassal state" position, and UK secession combined with EU accession can be pitched as taking back control. In those circumstances unionist pro-Europeans would be pushed towards support for independence, and Eurosceptic indy-supporters would be marginalised.
    Joining the Euro would be a tough sell to Scotland for Nicla.

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    https://twitter.com/chrismasonbbc/status/980148428813586433?s=21
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,533
    TGOHF said:

    https://twitter.com/chrismasonbbc/status/980148428813586433?s=21

    Only taken 3 days...
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited March 2018
    Theuniondivvie said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    Marvellous stuff, get the ungrateful little blighters down the innovative jam mines and up the global chimneys.

    https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/979849108889440256

    That shows you to be pathetic not McVey. A teenager working on a Saturday isn't remotely equivalent to a chimneysweep.
    Lighten up you humourless diddy.
    Ah the last refuge of someone shown up for posting nonsense, the "I was joking" defence.

    So you agree McVey was being reasonable I take it now?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    TGOHF said:

    williamglenn said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I wonder what happens if Nicola Sturgeon doesn't call another independence referendum.

    She might be stuck between a rock and a hard place.

    She's not stupid, she knows if the Nats lose another referendum that really will settle it for a generation and then some but if she doesn't call a referendum then she'll be facing an insurrection from her own side.

    I wonder if she'll call a non section 30 authorised referendum. I'd hope Mrs May would handle it better than the powers that be in Madrid.

    Originally her timeline was after we know what the Brexit deal looks like but before it's too late to choose a different course. Given a standstill transition her calculus will surely be different as the logic for independence strengthens once the UK is in a "vassal state" position, and UK secession combined with EU accession can be pitched as taking back control. In those circumstances unionist pro-Europeans would be pushed towards support for independence, and Eurosceptic indy-supporters would be marginalised.
    Joining the Euro would be a tough sell to Scotland for Nicla.
    The economic backdrop is very different from 2014. Ireland seems to be doing very well with the Euro.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,258
    TGOHF said:

    https://twitter.com/chrismasonbbc/status/980148428813586433?s=21

    This is starting to resemble Major's government, with its endless dithering over resigning matters making it look even sillier than it was.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    williamglenn said:

    TGOHF said:

    williamglenn said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I wonder what happens if Nicola Sturgeon doesn't call another independence referendum.

    She might be stuck between a rock and a hard place.

    She's not stupid, she knows if the Nats lose another referendum that really will settle it for a generation and then some but if she doesn't call a referendum then she'll be facing an insurrection from her own side.

    I wonder if she'll call a non section 30 authorised referendum. I'd hope Mrs May would handle it better than the powers that be in Madrid.

    Originally her timeline was after we know what the Brexit deal looks like but before it's too late to choose a different course. Given a standstill transition her calculus will surely be different as the logic for independence strengthens once the UK is in a "vassal state" position, and UK secession combined with EU accession can be pitched as taking back control. In those circumstances unionist pro-Europeans would be pushed towards support for independence, and Eurosceptic indy-supporters would be marginalised.
    Joining the Euro would be a tough sell to Scotland for Nicla.
    The economic backdrop is very different from 2014. Ireland seems to be doing very well with the Euro.
    Nobody aspires to be Ireland - not even the Irish.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,155
    Philip_Thompson said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    Marvellous stuff, get the ungrateful little blighters down the innovative jam mines and up the global chimneys.

    https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/979849108889440256

    That shows you to be pathetic not McVey. A teenager working on a Saturday isn't remotely equivalent to a chimneysweep.
    Lighten up you humourless diddy.
    Ah the last refuge of someone shown up for posting nonsense, the "I was joking" defence.

    So you agree McVey was being reasonable I take it now?
    No, I think flying the idea that kids getting Saturday jobs should be a factor for Brexit UK is cretinous, and I'm quite comfortable ripping the piss out of it in any manner I see fit.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,222
    williamglenn said:

    HYUFD said:

    williamglenn said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I wonder what happens if Nicola Sturgeon doesn't call another independence referendum.

    She might be stuck between a rock and a hard place.

    She's not stupid, she knows if the Nats lose another referendum that really will settle it for a generation and then some but if she doesn't call a referendum then she'll be facing an insurrection from her own side.

    I wonder if she'll call a non section 30 authorised referendum. I'd hope Mrs May would handle it better than the powers that be in Madrid.

    Originally her timeline was after we know what the Brexit deal looks like but before it's too late to choose a different course. Given a standstill transition her calculus will surely be different as the logic for independence strengthens once the UK is in a "vassal state" position, and UK secession combined with EU accession can be pitched as taking back control. In those circumstances unionist pro-Europeans would be pushed towards support for independence, and Eurosceptic indy-supporters would be marginalised.
    May and Westminster would block any indyref2 call anyway, Sturgeon's mandate for that went when she lost so many SNP MPs at GE 2017 after she started to push the issue
    The SNP have 59% of the Westminster seats. Losing seats has more impact on your mandate if it also means you lose your majority, like Theresa May did.
    May got 42% of the vote in 2017, Sturgeon got 37%. It is of course May and Westminster under parliamentary sovereignty who decide if there will be any indyref2 anyway
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,880
    TGOHF said:

    https://twitter.com/chrismasonbbc/status/980148428813586433?s=21

    Glad to see sense finally prevails. There’s only usually one reason someone resigns at 7:30 on a Saturday though...
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,271
    TGOHF said:

    williamglenn said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I wonder what happens if Nicola Sturgeon doesn't call another independence referendum.

    She might be stuck between a rock and a hard place.

    She's not stupid, she knows if the Nats lose another referendum that really will settle it for a generation and then some but if she doesn't call a referendum then she'll be facing an insurrection from her own side.

    I wonder if she'll call a non section 30 authorised referendum. I'd hope Mrs May would handle it better than the powers that be in Madrid.

    Originally her timeline was after we know what the Brexit deal looks like but before it's too late to choose a different course. Given a standstill transition her calculus will surely be different as the logic for independence strengthens once the UK is in a "vassal state" position, and UK secession combined with EU accession can be pitched as taking back control. In those circumstances unionist pro-Europeans would be pushed towards support for independence, and Eurosceptic indy-supporters would be marginalised.
    Joining the Euro would be a tough sell to Scotland for Nicla.

    I don't think so. If we are independent and join the European Union, the euro will be our currency as part of the package. Sterling won't work for us.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,705
    Sandpit said:

    TGOHF said:

    https://twitter.com/chrismasonbbc/status/980148428813586433?s=21

    Glad to see sense finally prevails. There’s only usually one reason someone resigns at 7:30 on a Saturday though...
    Sense? Eddie Izzard is replacing her.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,880
    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    TGOHF said:

    https://twitter.com/chrismasonbbc/status/980148428813586433?s=21

    Glad to see sense finally prevails. There’s only usually one reason someone resigns at 7:30 on a Saturday though...
    Sense? Eddie Izzard is replacing her.
    LOL, really? That’s rather amusing.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,528
    williamglenn said:

    TGOHF said:

    williamglenn said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I wonder what happens if Nicola Sturgeon doesn't call another independence referendum.

    She might be stuck between a rock and a hard place.

    She's not stupid, she knows if the Nats lose another referendum that really will settle it for a generation and then some but if she doesn't call a referendum then she'll be facing an insurrection from her own side.

    I wonder if she'll call a non section 30 authorised referendum. I'd hope Mrs May would handle it better than the powers that be in Madrid.

    Originally her timeline was after we know what the Brexit deal looks like but before it's too late to choose a different course. Given a standstill transition her calculus will surely be different as the logic for independence strengthens once the UK is in a "vassal state" position, and UK secession combined with EU accession can be pitched as taking back control. In those circumstances unionist pro-Europeans would be pushed towards support for independence, and Eurosceptic indy-supporters would be marginalised.
    Joining the Euro would be a tough sell to Scotland for Nicla.
    The economic backdrop is very different from 2014. Ireland seems to be doing very well with the Euro.
    Then again, we did have to bail out the Irish banking system a couple of years earlier.
  • ElliotElliot Posts: 1,516
    williamglenn said:

    TGOHF said:

    williamglenn said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I wonder what happens if Nicola Sturgeon doesn't call another independence referendum.

    She might be stuck between a rock and a hard place.

    She's not stupid, she knows if the Nats lose another referendum that really will settle it for a generation and then some but if she doesn't call a referendum then she'll be facing an insurrection from her own side.

    I wonder if she'll call a non section 30 authorised referendum. I'd hope Mrs May would handle it better than the powers that be in Madrid.

    Originally her timeline was after we know what the Brexit deal looks like but before it's too late to choose a different course. Given a standstill transition her calculus will surely be different as the logic for independence strengthens once the UK is in a "vassal state" position, and UK secession combined with EU accession can be pitched as taking back control. In those circumstances unionist pro-Europeans would be pushed towards support for independence, and Eurosceptic indy-supporters would be marginalised.
    Joining the Euro would be a tough sell to Scotland for Nicla.
    The economic backdrop is very different from 2014. Ireland seems to be doing very well with the Euro.
    You must think the UK economy is stellar then, given our unemployment rate is 30% lower.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    Sandpit said:

    TGOHF said:

    https://twitter.com/chrismasonbbc/status/980148428813586433?s=21

    Glad to see sense finally prevails. There’s only usually one reason someone resigns at 7:30 on a Saturday though...

    John McDonnell finally managed to sit Jeremy down and explained to him slowly, using short words, why Shawcroft had to go. Izzard is a non-Corbynista, so Jeremy is now down one on the NEC. Not that it will make much difference.

  • ElliotElliot Posts: 1,516
    FF43 said:

    another_richard said:

    I see that Asda are now selling five different types of British vegetables at 20p:

    https://groceries.asda.com/product/cabbage-brussels-sprouts/asda-growers-selection-spring-greens/392945

    https://groceries.asda.com/product/carrots/asda-growers-selection-carrots/30240

    https://groceries.asda.com/product/onions-leeks/asda-growers-selection-extra-trimmed-leeks/910002869199

    https://groceries.asda.com/product/parsnips-root-veg/asda-growers-selection-parsnips/910001160815

    https://groceries.asda.com/product/parsnips-root-veg/asda-growers-selection-british-swede/910003082671

    Yet the NFU and Guardian claim that there's a shortage of agricultural workers and food is rotting in the fields.

    About as believable as no Australian bowlers knowing the ball was being tampered with.

    Migrant worker numbers down 15-20%, leading to a 10-15% shortfall in workers overall. Less than half of those that did come are certain of coming back next year. Bear in mind you plant the crops before you know who's going to pick them. There's definitely an issue. Enjoy the British vegetables while you still can.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-43529549
    Higher low skill wages for British citizens is well worth losing a little bit of agricultural activity eith terrible pay and conditions.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,528
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    Completely disagreed. If Labour win enough seats in England to win power with the support of the SNP then do you seriously suggest that the SNP will prop up the Tories instead of installing Labour?

    Especially bearing in mind that the next election if it runs to term will be in 2022 and the Tories would have been in Downing Street for a dozen years. The SNP won't want to be seen to maintain that for longer.

    Well it was thanks to the SNP we had 18 years of Tory rule/Thatcherism.

    You could also argue that the SNP helped the Tories win a majority in 2015, instead of the Tories being the largest party in the Parliament.

    There was also a de facto SNP/Tory alliance at Holyrood between 2007-11.
    That was then. They'll definitely go for Labour over Conservatives.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,880
    SouthamObserver said:

    Sandpit said:

    TGOHF said:

    https://twitter.com/chrismasonbbc/status/980148428813586433?s=21

    Glad to see sense finally prevails. There’s only usually one reason someone resigns at 7:30 on a Saturday though...

    John McDonnell finally managed to sit Jeremy down and explained to him slowly, using short words, why Shawcroft had to go. Izzard is a non-Corbynista, so Jeremy is now down one on the NEC. Not that it will make much difference.

    Lets hope that McDonnell did just that.

    For now though, I’ll stick with my original theory that she just had a call from a newspaper.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Theuniondivvie said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    Philip_Thompson said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    Marvellous stuff, get the ungrateful little blighters down the innovative jam mines and up the global chimneys.

    https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/979849108889440256

    That shows you to be pathetic not McVey. A teenager working on a Saturday isn't remotely equivalent to a chimneysweep.
    Lighten up you humourless diddy.
    Ah the last refuge of someone shown up for posting nonsense, the "I was joking" defence.

    So you agree McVey was being reasonable I take it now?
    No, I think flying the idea that kids getting Saturday jobs should be a factor for Brexit UK is cretinous, and I'm quite comfortable ripping the piss out of it in any manner I see fit.
    I think the idea people can get by without any work ethic is cretinous.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,455
    The Labour official at the centre of an anti-Semitism row has resigned from the party's ruling committee.

    Christine Shawcroft said her membership of the NEC had "become a distraction for the party and an excuse for endless intrusive media harassment of myself, my family and friends".
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,705
    TheWhiteRabbit said:

    The Labour official at the centre of an anti-Semitism row has resigned from the party's ruling committee.

    Christine Shawcroft said her membership of the NEC had "become a distraction for the party and an excuse for endless intrusive media harassment of myself, my family and friends".

    There’s no anti-semitism row. It’s merely a Blairite plot to undermine the dear leader.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,533
    TheWhiteRabbit said:

    The Labour official at the centre of an anti-Semitism row has resigned from the party's ruling committee.

    Christine Shawcroft said her membership of the NEC had "become a distraction for the party and an excuse for endless intrusive media harassment of myself, my family and friends".

    No apology then...its the evil media's fault.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    Sandpit said:

    SouthamObserver said:

    Sandpit said:

    TGOHF said:

    https://twitter.com/chrismasonbbc/status/980148428813586433?s=21

    Glad to see sense finally prevails. There’s only usually one reason someone resigns at 7:30 on a Saturday though...

    John McDonnell finally managed to sit Jeremy down and explained to him slowly, using short words, why Shawcroft had to go. Izzard is a non-Corbynista, so Jeremy is now down one on the NEC. Not that it will make much difference.

    Lets hope that McDonnell did just that.

    For now though, I’ll stick with my original theory that she just had a call from a newspaper.

    Yep, pretty sure that happened, too. She has a past and then some. But these stories are always dismissed as smears when published. I’m pretty sure she’s only gone because she’s been told to.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,258
    TheWhiteRabbit said:

    The Labour official at the centre of an anti-Semitism row has resigned from the party's ruling committee.

    Christine Shawcroft said her membership of the NEC had "become a distraction for the party and an excuse for endless intrusive media harassment of myself, my family and friends".

    So it was in no way her fault and she is only resigning because of a media circus?

    What a weaselly statement.
  • marke09marke09 Posts: 926

    Chris Mason
    ‏Verified account @ChrisMasonBBC
    20m20 minutes ago

    Christine Shawcroft will be replaced on Labour's National Executive Committee by Eddie Izzard
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,155
    ydoethur said:

    TheWhiteRabbit said:

    The Labour official at the centre of an anti-Semitism row has resigned from the party's ruling committee.

    Christine Shawcroft said her membership of the NEC had "become a distraction for the party and an excuse for endless intrusive media harassment of myself, my family and friends".

    So it was in no way her fault and she is only resigning because of a media circus?

    What a weaselly statement.
    The problem is that she is still a party member.

    To show real action Corbyn has to cancel her party membership along with many others
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,533
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    ydoethur said:

    TheWhiteRabbit said:

    The Labour official at the centre of an anti-Semitism row has resigned from the party's ruling committee.

    Christine Shawcroft said her membership of the NEC had "become a distraction for the party and an excuse for endless intrusive media harassment of myself, my family and friends".

    So it was in no way her fault and she is only resigning because of a media circus?

    What a weaselly statement.
    The problem is that she is still a party member.

    To show real action Corbyn has to cancel her party membership along with many others
    Give it another 3 days, then sent to the naughty step for a few months, then quietly unsuspended.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,021
    ydoethur said:

    TheWhiteRabbit said:

    The Labour official at the centre of an anti-Semitism row has resigned from the party's ruling committee.

    Christine Shawcroft said her membership of the NEC had "become a distraction for the party and an excuse for endless intrusive media harassment of myself, my family and friends".

    So it was in no way her fault and she is only resigning because of a media circus?

    What a weaselly statement.
    I was just thinking the same. No acknowledgement that she did anything wrong, and it's all the fault of the media.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,533
    JosiasJessop said:

    ydoethur said:

    TheWhiteRabbit said:

    The Labour official at the centre of an anti-Semitism row has resigned from the party's ruling committee.

    Christine Shawcroft said her membership of the NEC had "become a distraction for the party and an excuse for endless intrusive media harassment of myself, my family and friends".

    So it was in no way her fault and she is only resigning because of a media circus?

    What a weaselly statement.
    I was just thinking the same. No acknowledgement that she did anything wrong, and it's all the fault of the media.
    Its was obviously all sniff sniff, taps mic, FAKE NEWS...
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,328
    Any polls expected ce soir?
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,850
    JosiasJessop said:

    ydoethur said:

    TheWhiteRabbit said:

    The Labour official at the centre of an anti-Semitism row has resigned from the party's ruling committee.

    Christine Shawcroft said her membership of the NEC had "become a distraction for the party and an excuse for endless intrusive media harassment of myself, my family and friends".

    So it was in no way her fault and she is only resigning because of a media circus?

    What a weaselly statement.
    I was just thinking the same. No acknowledgement that she did anything wrong, and it's all the fault of the media.
    But that is the sort of line Corbyn has been taking for days. No acceptance of any personal responsibility for ANYTHING.

    I know apologies these days are nearly always in the passive voice - and so always appear like non-apologies. But their tactics to shut this down aren't working.

    Even if Corbyn went through a public conversion to Judaism now, it wouldn't shut it down.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,367
    marke09 said:


    Chris Mason
    ‏Verified account @ChrisMasonBBC
    20m20 minutes ago

    Christine Shawcroft will be replaced on Labour's National Executive Committee by Eddie Izzard

    I thought tomorrow was April 1st?
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,850
    SandyRentool said:

    marke09 said:


    Chris Mason
    ‏Verified account @ChrisMasonBBC
    20m20 minutes ago

    Christine Shawcroft will be replaced on Labour's National Executive Committee by Eddie Izzard

    I thought tomorrow was April 1st?
    Given that Shawcroft's position was up for re-election in June, poor Eddie and his lovely fluffy beret will only get to sit round the table for a couple of months.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    England.

    Saved by the SNP.

  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,241
    Eddie Izzard? He won't transgress will he?
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    marke09 said:


    Chris Mason
    ‏Verified account @ChrisMasonBBC
    20m20 minutes ago

    Christine Shawcroft will be replaced on Labour's National Executive Committee by Eddie Izzard


    LOL.

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Mortimer said:

    Any polls expected ce soir?

    Good question.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,880
    geoffw said:

    Eddie Izzard? He won't transgress will he?

    Transdress maybe ;)
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,254
    FF43 said:

    tlg86 said:

    Bromptonaut said:

    another_richard said:

    I see that Asda are now selling five different types of British vegetables at 20p:

    https://groceries.asda.com/product/cabbage-brussels-sprouts/asda-growers-selection-spring-greens/392945

    https://groceries.asda.com/product/carrots/asda-growers-selection-carrots/30240

    https://groceries.asda.com/product/onions-leeks/asda-growers-selection-extra-trimmed-leeks/910002869199

    https://groceries.asda.com/product/parsnips-root-veg/asda-growers-selection-parsnips/910001160815

    https://groceries.asda.com/product/parsnips-root-veg/asda-growers-selection-british-swede/910003082671

    Yet the NFU and Guardian claim that there's a shortage of agricultural workers and food is rotting in the fields.

    About as believable as no Australian bowlers knowing the ball was being tampered with.

    We haven’t left yet.
    Tell that to the Guardian...

    https://tinyurl.com/yd39scmx

    ;)
    You don't need to tell the Guardian anything but you could inform yourself of the facts by reading a decently researched article on the topic.
    Perhaps you could look at the actual data to get the facts.

    Page 6 of the attached ONS spreadsheet:

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/datasets/summaryoflabourmarketstatistics

    Average annual employment in the agricultural sector:

    2015 407 thousand
    2016 417 thousand
    2017 451 thousand

    Alternatively you could visit your local Asda and see the vast heaps of British vegetables on sale at 20p - those same vegetables that we were told would be rotting in the fields.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,241
    Sandpit said:

    geoffw said:

    Eddie Izzard? He won't transgress will he?

    Transdress maybe ;)
    boomboom!
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    Elliot said:

    FF43 said:

    another_richard said:

    I see that Asda are now selling five different types of British vegetables at 20p:

    https://groceries.asda.com/product/cabbage-brussels-sprouts/asda-growers-selection-spring-greens/392945

    https://groceries.asda.com/product/carrots/asda-growers-selection-carrots/30240

    https://groceries.asda.com/product/onions-leeks/asda-growers-selection-extra-trimmed-leeks/910002869199

    https://groceries.asda.com/product/parsnips-root-veg/asda-growers-selection-parsnips/910001160815

    https://groceries.asda.com/product/parsnips-root-veg/asda-growers-selection-british-swede/910003082671

    Yet the NFU and Guardian claim that there's a shortage of agricultural workers and food is rotting in the fields.

    About as believable as no Australian bowlers knowing the ball was being tampered with.

    Migrant worker numbers down 15-20%, leading to a 10-15% shortfall in workers overall. Less than half of those that did come are certain of coming back next year. Bear in mind you plant the crops before you know who's going to pick them. There's definitely an issue. Enjoy the British vegetables while you still can.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-43529549
    Higher low skill wages for British citizens is well worth losing a little bit of agricultural activity eith terrible pay and conditions.
    And more Saturday and evening jobs available for British students and young people too!

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,258
    edited March 2018
    SandyRentool said:

    marke09 said:


    Chris Mason
    ‏Verified account @ChrisMasonBBC
    20m20 minutes ago

    Christine Shawcroft will be replaced on Labour's National Executive Committee by Eddie Izzard

    I thought tomorrow was April 1st?
    Labour's manifesto strongly suggested they can't do basic arithmetic. Perhaps they just got the date wrong?

    Could be worse of course. It could have been Russell Brand.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,533
    Eddie already has the required uniform....

    https://i1.wp.com/order-order.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Screen-Shot-2018-03-31-at-20.05.58.png?resize=540,269&ssl=1
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,880
    edited March 2018
    By the way, the biggest global story tomorrow could well be the Chinese satellite crashing to Earth.

    It’s not an April Fool, it’s an 8,500kg satellite the size of a bus that’s out of control and heading to Earth. Really hope it ends up in the ocean somewhere.

    It’s too far south to get the U.K. but could end up in Southern Europe, Africa, Asia or America anywhere between 43°N and 43°S, the latest prediction is it to crash tomorrow night.

    http://www.aerospace.org/cords/reentry-predictions/tiangong-1-reentry/
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,367
    Is anyone able to demonstrate the fundamental difference between what Shawcroft has done and what Jezza did regarding the mural?

    Clearly one is a resigning matter and the other isn't, but I'm not sure why.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,241
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Eddie already has the required uniform....

    https://i1.wp.com/order-order.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Screen-Shot-2018-03-31-at-20.05.58.png?resize=540,269&ssl=1

    I thinks he's displaying the Waffen-SS Oberfuhrer Collar Tabs (available for £12.95 from epicmilitaria.com)
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,533
    Rog this morning was bemoaning Israel shooting “protesters...

    Hamas said five of them were members of its military wing, Izzedine al-Qassam Brigades
  • steve_garnersteve_garner Posts: 1,019
    SandyRentool said:

    Is anyone able to demonstrate the fundamental difference between what Shawcroft has done and what Jezza did regarding the mural?

    Clearly one is a resigning matter and the other isn't, but I'm not sure why.

    Think you need to attend re-education classes. This is Jezza you are talking about.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,533
    geoffw said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Eddie already has the required uniform....

    https://i1.wp.com/order-order.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Screen-Shot-2018-03-31-at-20.05.58.png?resize=540,269&ssl=1

    I thinks he's displaying the Waffen-SS Oberfuhrer Collar Tabs (available for £12.95 from epicmilitaria.com)
    Given the extensive discussion of the waffen ss on here over the years, how did I not know that!
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,328
    Sandpit said:

    By the way, the biggest global story tomorrow could well be the Chinese satellite crashing to Earth.

    It’s not an April Fool, it’s an 8,500kg satellite the size of a bus that’s out of control and heading to Earth. Really hope it ends up in the ocean somewhere.

    It’s too far south to get the U.K. but could end up in Southern Europe, Africa, Asia or America anywhere between 43°N and 43°S, the latest prediction is it to crash tomorrow night.

    http://www.aerospace.org/cords/reentry-predictions/tiangong-1-reentry/

    Burn up on reentry?
  • steve_garnersteve_garner Posts: 1,019
    geoffw said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Eddie already has the required uniform....

    https://i1.wp.com/order-order.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Screen-Shot-2018-03-31-at-20.05.58.png?resize=540,269&ssl=1

    I thinks he's displaying the Waffen-SS Oberfuhrer Collar Tabs (available for £12.95 from epicmilitaria.com)
    Hand me downs from Ed Balls.
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