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  • Options
    FF43 said:

    Elliot said:

    Sad but true - the declining power of the U.K. post Brexit.

    https://twitter.com/chrisgreybrexit/status/974740440057606144

    Same old nonsense doesn't become more true because someone wrote a blogpost about it. We have had more backing from Norway than Ireland because one is a NATO member and one is an EU member. The Trump extrapolation is also misguided, given he won't survive beyond 2020, if he even survives that far.
    The point is that the United Kingdom has very little influence on its own. It needs to act in consort with groups of like minded nations. There really is only one group that fits the bill - the European Union. We don't absolutely have to be members to have a beneficial relationship with the EU, but it will be harder work to get sporadic attention, instead of a matter of course. We will be heaving close to the EU seeking influence on its terms.
    I think this crisis will soften Bexit
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    glw said:

    kle4 said:

    Just did a YouGov poll which was asking about how I'd vote if different electoral systems were used (eg having a constituency vote and a regional vote), but the interesting part was a list of statements about politics and to list which were true or false, such as if the LDs favour PR, that the number of MPs is about 100, when polling stations close etc. I've not really come across a poll which actually tests the respondents' knowledge at the end.

    I actually have no idea what the Lib Dem’s stance is on anything other than brexit these days and I am on Pb. How the hell Maureen from Margate has any idea is beyond me.
    Old people are racist. I think that's the Lib Dem stance that most people know.
    Oh yes all whities must check their priviledge...

    Seriously though, I used to know Lib Dem stood for things local income tax to replace council tax, vote / HoL reform, weed legalisation. These days is mansion tax still on the agenda? I have no idea.
  • Options
    John_M said:

    kle4 said:

    Just did a YouGov poll which was asking about how I'd vote if different electoral systems were used (eg having a constituency vote and a regional vote), but the interesting part was a list of statements about politics and to list which were true or false, such as if the LDs favour PR, that the number of MPs is about 100, when polling stations close etc. I've not really come across a poll which actually tests the respondents' knowledge at the end.

    I actually have no idea what the Lib Dem’s stance is on anything other than brexit these days and I am on Pb. How the hell Maureen from Margate has any idea is beyond me.
    One penny on income tax for the, sorry, OUR NHS, I think. But that's all I know.
    Reports that one penny on NI for the NHS is likely to be announced in the Autumn budget
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,572
    Meanwhile, off-topic, the spirit of Kafka is alive even if this poor chap is officially not...

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/16/romanian-court-tells-man-he-is-not-alive

    "In a case reminiscent of a Kafka novel, a Romanian court has ruled that a 63-year-old man is dead despite what would appear to be convincing evidence to the contrary: the man himself appearing alive and well in court.

    Constantin Reliu asked the court in the town of Barlad to overturn a death certificate obtained by his wife after he had spent more than a decade in Turkey, during which time he was out of contact with his family. The court told him he was too late, and would have to remain officially deceased."
  • Options
    glw said:

    kle4 said:

    Just did a YouGov poll which was asking about how I'd vote if different electoral systems were used (eg having a constituency vote and a regional vote), but the interesting part was a list of statements about politics and to list which were true or false, such as if the LDs favour PR, that the number of MPs is about 100, when polling stations close etc. I've not really come across a poll which actually tests the respondents' knowledge at the end.

    I actually have no idea what the Lib Dem’s stance is on anything other than brexit these days and I am on Pb. How the hell Maureen from Margate has any idea is beyond me.
    Old people are racist. I think that's the Lib Dem stance that most people know.
    Well these two oldies in this house are not racist
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,572

    John_M said:

    kle4 said:

    Just did a YouGov poll which was asking about how I'd vote if different electoral systems were used (eg having a constituency vote and a regional vote), but the interesting part was a list of statements about politics and to list which were true or false, such as if the LDs favour PR, that the number of MPs is about 100, when polling stations close etc. I've not really come across a poll which actually tests the respondents' knowledge at the end.

    I actually have no idea what the Lib Dem’s stance is on anything other than brexit these days and I am on Pb. How the hell Maureen from Margate has any idea is beyond me.
    One penny on income tax for the, sorry, OUR NHS, I think. But that's all I know.
    Reports that one penny on NI for the NHS is likely to be announced in the Autumn budget
    Surely better to put it on income tax, else those of us who are likely to need it most (i.e. pensioners) will not be contributing.
  • Options

    Meanwhile, off-topic, the spirit of Kafka is alive even if this poor chap is officially not...

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/16/romanian-court-tells-man-he-is-not-alive

    "In a case reminiscent of a Kafka novel, a Romanian court has ruled that a 63-year-old man is dead despite what would appear to be convincing evidence to the contrary: the man himself appearing alive and well in court.

    Constantin Reliu asked the court in the town of Barlad to overturn a death certificate obtained by his wife after he had spent more than a decade in Turkey, during which time he was out of contact with his family. The court told him he was too late, and would have to remain officially deceased."

    That is so funny
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    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,748

    Omnium said:

    Moscow will not cooperate with an investigation into the Salisbury attack. The president relies on spreading doubt

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/16/putin-lies-action-moscow-salisbury-attack

    Helps if you have useful idiots to assist in spreading that doubt...

    Infinitely more sense in that article than is on show from the Labour front bench.
    Some decent political backbone shown by some Labour MPs though. That's a tough thing to do, and whatever Labour's faults whilst they have people who are prepared to do the hard but right thing they're not a spent force intellectually.
    Restricted to the backbenches though - pretty much a spineless Shadow Cabinet.
    The emergence, once again, of connected thought, on the left is a pretty good thing. Whatever the politics of there here and now it's blindingly clear that the forcefulness on the left is being provided by blind zealots, and the forcefulness on the right by unthinking UKIPism.

    The stupidness of both those radiators of thought seems to have escaped us.
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    glwglw Posts: 9,549

    Wobbly lines tech given green light for the World Cup.

    Video assistant referees will be used at the World Cup for the first time after Fifa formally approved the technology for this year's tournament.

    Just means one of Putin's goons will be able to sit, unseen, with a gun at the VAR's head.....
    I will be completely unshocked if there are some Russian shenanigans at the World Cup.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,645

    Meanwhile, off-topic, the spirit of Kafka is alive even if this poor chap is officially not...

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/16/romanian-court-tells-man-he-is-not-alive

    "In a case reminiscent of a Kafka novel, a Romanian court has ruled that a 63-year-old man is dead despite what would appear to be convincing evidence to the contrary: the man himself appearing alive and well in court.

    Constantin Reliu asked the court in the town of Barlad to overturn a death certificate obtained by his wife after he had spent more than a decade in Turkey, during which time he was out of contact with his family. The court told him he was too late, and would have to remain officially deceased."

    e may never have found out about his death in his homeland had he not been apprehended by Turkish authorities earlier this year and deported back to Romania because of expired documents. Reliu had planned to renew his passport in Romania and return to Turkey, but on arrival, he was detained by immigration officers who informed him he had died in 2003.

    Tricky one - he cannot renew his passport, because he is dead.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    glw said:

    Wobbly lines tech given green light for the World Cup.

    Video assistant referees will be used at the World Cup for the first time after Fifa formally approved the technology for this year's tournament.

    Just means one of Putin's goons will be able to sit, unseen, with a gun at the VAR's head.....
    I will be completely unshocked if there are some Russian shenanigans at the World Cup.
    And in qatar i sure nothing dodgy will go on...did anybody say brown paper bag of cash anybody.
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,549

    glw said:

    kle4 said:

    Just did a YouGov poll which was asking about how I'd vote if different electoral systems were used (eg having a constituency vote and a regional vote), but the interesting part was a list of statements about politics and to list which were true or false, such as if the LDs favour PR, that the number of MPs is about 100, when polling stations close etc. I've not really come across a poll which actually tests the respondents' knowledge at the end.

    I actually have no idea what the Lib Dem’s stance is on anything other than brexit these days and I am on Pb. How the hell Maureen from Margate has any idea is beyond me.
    Old people are racist. I think that's the Lib Dem stance that most people know.
    Well these two oldies in this house are not racist
    In case there is any doubt, I do not share Vince's view. :)
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,645

    glw said:

    kle4 said:

    Just did a YouGov poll which was asking about how I'd vote if different electoral systems were used (eg having a constituency vote and a regional vote), but the interesting part was a list of statements about politics and to list which were true or false, such as if the LDs favour PR, that the number of MPs is about 100, when polling stations close etc. I've not really come across a poll which actually tests the respondents' knowledge at the end.

    I actually have no idea what the Lib Dem’s stance is on anything other than brexit these days and I am on Pb. How the hell Maureen from Margate has any idea is beyond me.
    Old people are racist. I think that's the Lib Dem stance that most people know.
    Well these two oldies in this house are not racist
    Well I believe technically he said 'too many' old people were racist, hence voting for Brexit, not that all were (pedant's note - no, he didn't say they were racist, but that is what he means when he states the motivation was about nostalgia for a time of more white faces)
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,046
    edited March 2018
    AndyJS said:

    nielh said:

    Foxy said:



    It was Goldsmiths. She started in Wolverhampton Uni, but had to leave when her fathers business closed due to embezzlement by a business partner. They became homeless, but she restarted when the family crisis ended.

    http://www.onlondon.co.uk/qa-newham-labour-mayoral-hopeful-rokhsana-fiaz-on-gentrification-community-involvement-and-sir-robin-wales/

    Sounds pretty good
    She's 47, got an OBE, had a career in the media, ran major charities, looks like she isabout to become Mayor of Newham. And then there is this:

    "But obviously the most pressing issue is housing. I live with my parents. That’s because even with jobs that I’ve had and the senior positions I’ve achieved I literally cannot afford to buy a place in Newham. That is absurd. I appreciate all the debates going on at London region level and the issues around affordability etcetera etcetera, but if we don’t get the balance right in terms of our housing mix and emphasise that the median income in this borough is still around £26,000 – people simply cannot live. There’s got to be more genuinely affordable and more social housing."


    Housing in Newham was very cheap until the 1990s. What's happened?
    Population of Newham

    1981 209,131
    1991 221,146
    2001 243,747
    2011 307,984
    2016 341,000 est

    And possibly much more as its a centre of 'beds in sheds'.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Borough_of_Newham#Demography

    Perhaps what Newham needs isn't 'more genuinely affordable and more social housing' but fewer people.
  • Options

    John_M said:

    kle4 said:

    Just did a YouGov poll which was asking about how I'd vote if different electoral systems were used (eg having a constituency vote and a regional vote), but the interesting part was a list of statements about politics and to list which were true or false, such as if the LDs favour PR, that the number of MPs is about 100, when polling stations close etc. I've not really come across a poll which actually tests the respondents' knowledge at the end.

    I actually have no idea what the Lib Dem’s stance is on anything other than brexit these days and I am on Pb. How the hell Maureen from Margate has any idea is beyond me.
    One penny on income tax for the, sorry, OUR NHS, I think. But that's all I know.
    Reports that one penny on NI for the NHS is likely to be announced in the Autumn budget
    Surely better to put it on income tax, else those of us who are likely to need it most (i.e. pensioners) will not be contributing.
    There is some talk of NI being extended to working pensioners and that is long overdue
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,572
    kle4 said:

    Meanwhile, off-topic, the spirit of Kafka is alive even if this poor chap is officially not...

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/16/romanian-court-tells-man-he-is-not-alive

    "In a case reminiscent of a Kafka novel, a Romanian court has ruled that a 63-year-old man is dead despite what would appear to be convincing evidence to the contrary: the man himself appearing alive and well in court.

    Constantin Reliu asked the court in the town of Barlad to overturn a death certificate obtained by his wife after he had spent more than a decade in Turkey, during which time he was out of contact with his family. The court told him he was too late, and would have to remain officially deceased."

    He may never have found out about his death in his homeland had he not been apprehended by Turkish authorities earlier this year and deported back to Romania because of expired documents. Reliu had planned to renew his passport in Romania and return to Turkey, but on arrival, he was detained by immigration officers who informed him he had died in 2003.

    Tricky one - he cannot renew his passport, because he is dead.
    Indeed, though one wonders why Romania allowed him back in the country. The could have left him in limbo!
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Seriously though, I used to know Lib Dem stood for things local income tax to replace council tax, vote / HoL reform, weed legalisation. These days is mansion tax still on the agenda? I have no idea.

    I suppose you might look at their website .... that is if your generally minded to view political sites .... :tongue:
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    John_M said:

    kle4 said:

    Just did a YouGov poll which was asking about how I'd vote if different electoral systems were used (eg having a constituency vote and a regional vote), but the interesting part was a list of statements about politics and to list which were true or false, such as if the LDs favour PR, that the number of MPs is about 100, when polling stations close etc. I've not really come across a poll which actually tests the respondents' knowledge at the end.

    I actually have no idea what the Lib Dem’s stance is on anything other than brexit these days and I am on Pb. How the hell Maureen from Margate has any idea is beyond me.
    One penny on income tax for the, sorry, OUR NHS, I think. But that's all I know.
    Reports that one penny on NI for the NHS is likely to be announced in the Autumn budget
    I'm not a fan of hypothecated taxes. May is still dead to me.
  • Options
    glw said:

    glw said:

    kle4 said:

    Just did a YouGov poll which was asking about how I'd vote if different electoral systems were used (eg having a constituency vote and a regional vote), but the interesting part was a list of statements about politics and to list which were true or false, such as if the LDs favour PR, that the number of MPs is about 100, when polling stations close etc. I've not really come across a poll which actually tests the respondents' knowledge at the end.

    I actually have no idea what the Lib Dem’s stance is on anything other than brexit these days and I am on Pb. How the hell Maureen from Margate has any idea is beyond me.
    Old people are racist. I think that's the Lib Dem stance that most people know.
    Well these two oldies in this house are not racist
    In case there is any doubt, I do not share Vince's view. :)
    Of course you don't and Vince was foolish in his words
  • Options
    TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    edited March 2018
    kle4 said:

    Meanwhile, off-topic, the spirit of Kafka is alive even if this poor chap is officially not...

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/16/romanian-court-tells-man-he-is-not-alive

    "In a case reminiscent of a Kafka novel, a Romanian court has ruled that a 63-year-old man is dead despite what would appear to be convincing evidence to the contrary: the man himself appearing alive and well in court.

    Constantin Reliu asked the court in the town of Barlad to overturn a death certificate obtained by his wife after he had spent more than a decade in Turkey, during which time he was out of contact with his family. The court told him he was too late, and would have to remain officially deceased."

    e may never have found out about his death in his homeland had he not been apprehended by Turkish authorities earlier this year and deported back to Romania because of expired documents. Reliu had planned to renew his passport in Romania and return to Turkey, but on arrival, he was detained by immigration officers who informed him he had died in 2003.

    Tricky one - he cannot renew his passport, because he is dead.
    I'm trying to think of the positives, can't take a dead man to court!

    Presumably...

    Edit: Or maybe it will at least convince the courts to reconsider your death.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,572

    John_M said:

    kle4 said:

    Just did a YouGov poll which was asking about how I'd vote if different electoral systems were used (eg having a constituency vote and a regional vote), but the interesting part was a list of statements about politics and to list which were true or false, such as if the LDs favour PR, that the number of MPs is about 100, when polling stations close etc. I've not really come across a poll which actually tests the respondents' knowledge at the end.

    I actually have no idea what the Lib Dem’s stance is on anything other than brexit these days and I am on Pb. How the hell Maureen from Margate has any idea is beyond me.
    One penny on income tax for the, sorry, OUR NHS, I think. But that's all I know.
    Reports that one penny on NI for the NHS is likely to be announced in the Autumn budget
    Surely better to put it on income tax, else those of us who are likely to need it most (i.e. pensioners) will not be contributing.
    There is some talk of NI being extended to working pensioners and that is long overdue
    Er 'working pensioners'?... They'll already pay NI on their employment earnings if over the lower earnings limit. It needs to be applied to pensions and other income.
  • Options
    rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038

    John_M said:

    kle4 said:

    Just did a YouGov poll which was asking about how I'd vote if different electoral systems were used (eg having a constituency vote and a regional vote), but the interesting part was a list of statements about politics and to list which were true or false, such as if the LDs favour PR, that the number of MPs is about 100, when polling stations close etc. I've not really come across a poll which actually tests the respondents' knowledge at the end.

    I actually have no idea what the Lib Dem’s stance is on anything other than brexit these days and I am on Pb. How the hell Maureen from Margate has any idea is beyond me.
    One penny on income tax for the, sorry, OUR NHS, I think. But that's all I know.
    Reports that one penny on NI for the NHS is likely to be announced in the Autumn budget
    Surely better to put it on income tax, else those of us who are likely to need it most (i.e. pensioners) will not be contributing.
    Better to raise NI and ask pensioners to pay NI. But never accuse governments of logic or rationality ...

    Anyway, such a pathetic rise in tax won't raise £30 bn/yr which is what we need (to quote Andrew Lansley.)
  • Options
    kle4 said:

    glw said:

    kle4 said:

    Just did a YouGov poll which was asking about how I'd vote if different electoral systems were used (eg having a constituency vote and a regional vote), but the interesting part was a list of statements about politics and to list which were true or false, such as if the LDs favour PR, that the number of MPs is about 100, when polling stations close etc. I've not really come across a poll which actually tests the respondents' knowledge at the end.

    I actually have no idea what the Lib Dem’s stance is on anything other than brexit these days and I am on Pb. How the hell Maureen from Margate has any idea is beyond me.
    Old people are racist. I think that's the Lib Dem stance that most people know.
    Well these two oldies in this house are not racist
    Well I believe technically he said 'too many' old people were racist, hence voting for Brexit, not that all were (pedant's note - no, he didn't say they were racist, but that is what he means when he states the motivation was about nostalgia for a time of more white faces)
    He would have been wise to steer clear
  • Options
    glwglw Posts: 9,549

    glw said:

    glw said:

    kle4 said:

    Just did a YouGov poll which was asking about how I'd vote if different electoral systems were used (eg having a constituency vote and a regional vote), but the interesting part was a list of statements about politics and to list which were true or false, such as if the LDs favour PR, that the number of MPs is about 100, when polling stations close etc. I've not really come across a poll which actually tests the respondents' knowledge at the end.

    I actually have no idea what the Lib Dem’s stance is on anything other than brexit these days and I am on Pb. How the hell Maureen from Margate has any idea is beyond me.
    Old people are racist. I think that's the Lib Dem stance that most people know.
    Well these two oldies in this house are not racist
    In case there is any doubt, I do not share Vince's view. :)
    Of course you don't and Vince was foolish in his words
    It was a Clinton-esque "basket of deplorables" mistake, Vince should be glad it's only the local elections coming up.
  • Options
    hamiltonacehamiltonace Posts: 642
    edited March 2018
    I guess I know what it feels like to be a Man Utd fan do these days. I have been a Tory for most of the last 20 years with a few Lib Dem strategic votes. It is not just the bad performance of the Tory party that depresses me now but the complete lack of strategy or ideas on how to win. There are a few competent members of the team but they only perform sporadically. May will go not because she is a bad campaigner but because she is just not very good. Bring British in business has never before resulted in being shown pity but that is what I get now.

    Waiting for a flight back from Ireland which is booming now. Spent last night in newry and think it would be worthwhile for some of the cabinet to spend some time in bandit country. Imaginative solutions are truly needed. The murals look down on you and remind everyone that the troubles are for many unfinished business. What will brexit do for these people to make their lives better?
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,748
    John_M said:

    John_M said:

    kle4 said:

    Just did a YouGov poll which was asking about how I'd vote if different electoral systems were used (eg having a constituency vote and a regional vote), but the interesting part was a list of statements about politics and to list which were true or false, such as if the LDs favour PR, that the number of MPs is about 100, when polling stations close etc. I've not really come across a poll which actually tests the respondents' knowledge at the end.

    I actually have no idea what the Lib Dem’s stance is on anything other than brexit these days and I am on Pb. How the hell Maureen from Margate has any idea is beyond me.
    One penny on income tax for the, sorry, OUR NHS, I think. But that's all I know.
    Reports that one penny on NI for the NHS is likely to be announced in the Autumn budget
    I'm not a fan of hypothecated taxes. May is still dead to me.
    "I'm not a fan of hypothecated taxes" - why not? I don't like the admin, but overall for the NHS (say) I can see some merit.

  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,572
    edited March 2018

    kle4 said:

    Meanwhile, off-topic, the spirit of Kafka is alive even if this poor chap is officially not...

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/16/romanian-court-tells-man-he-is-not-alive

    "In a case reminiscent of a Kafka novel, a Romanian court has ruled that a 63-year-old man is dead despite what would appear to be convincing evidence to the contrary: the man himself appearing alive and well in court.

    Constantin Reliu asked the court in the town of Barlad to overturn a death certificate obtained by his wife after he had spent more than a decade in Turkey, during which time he was out of contact with his family. The court told him he was too late, and would have to remain officially deceased."

    e may never have found out about his death in his homeland had he not been apprehended by Turkish authorities earlier this year and deported back to Romania because of expired documents. Reliu had planned to renew his passport in Romania and return to Turkey, but on arrival, he was detained by immigration officers who informed him he had died in 2003.

    Tricky one - he cannot renew his passport, because he is dead.
    I'm trying to think of the positives, can't take a dead man to court!

    Presumably...

    Edit: Or maybe it will at least convince the courts to reconsider your death.
    :lol: Reminds me of Phil Connors' increasingly outrageous behaviour in Groundhog Day, once he knew there would be no consequences.
  • Options
    John_M said:

    John_M said:

    kle4 said:

    Just did a YouGov poll which was asking about how I'd vote if different electoral systems were used (eg having a constituency vote and a regional vote), but the interesting part was a list of statements about politics and to list which were true or false, such as if the LDs favour PR, that the number of MPs is about 100, when polling stations close etc. I've not really come across a poll which actually tests the respondents' knowledge at the end.

    I actually have no idea what the Lib Dem’s stance is on anything other than brexit these days and I am on Pb. How the hell Maureen from Margate has any idea is beyond me.
    One penny on income tax for the, sorry, OUR NHS, I think. But that's all I know.
    Reports that one penny on NI for the NHS is likely to be announced in the Autumn budget
    I'm not a fan of hypothecated taxes. May is still dead to me.
    I think that is lib dem policy and looks as if it could become conservative policy. It would be popular
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,572

    John_M said:

    John_M said:

    kle4 said:

    Just did a YouGov poll which was asking about how I'd vote if different electoral systems were used (eg having a constituency vote and a regional vote), but the interesting part was a list of statements about politics and to list which were true or false, such as if the LDs favour PR, that the number of MPs is about 100, when polling stations close etc. I've not really come across a poll which actually tests the respondents' knowledge at the end.

    I actually have no idea what the Lib Dem’s stance is on anything other than brexit these days and I am on Pb. How the hell Maureen from Margate has any idea is beyond me.
    One penny on income tax for the, sorry, OUR NHS, I think. But that's all I know.
    Reports that one penny on NI for the NHS is likely to be announced in the Autumn budget
    I'm not a fan of hypothecated taxes. May is still dead to me.
    I think that is lib dem policy and looks as if it could become conservative policy. It would be popular
    Increased taxes Conservative policy? And popular?! My how the world is changing :smile:
  • Options

    John_M said:

    kle4 said:

    Just did a YouGov poll which was asking about how I'd vote if different electoral systems were used (eg having a constituency vote and a regional vote), but the interesting part was a list of statements about politics and to list which were true or false, such as if the LDs favour PR, that the number of MPs is about 100, when polling stations close etc. I've not really come across a poll which actually tests the respondents' knowledge at the end.

    I actually have no idea what the Lib Dem’s stance is on anything other than brexit these days and I am on Pb. How the hell Maureen from Margate has any idea is beyond me.
    One penny on income tax for the, sorry, OUR NHS, I think. But that's all I know.
    Reports that one penny on NI for the NHS is likely to be announced in the Autumn budget
    Surely better to put it on income tax, else those of us who are likely to need it most (i.e. pensioners) will not be contributing.
    There is some talk of NI being extended to working pensioners and that is long overdue
    Er 'working pensioners'?... They'll already pay NI on their employment earnings if over the lower earnings limit. It needs to be applied to pensions and other income.
    Ni is not payable when you reach retirement age and continue working
  • Options
    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    glw said:

    Wobbly lines tech given green light for the World Cup.

    Video assistant referees will be used at the World Cup for the first time after Fifa formally approved the technology for this year's tournament.

    Just means one of Putin's goons will be able to sit, unseen, with a gun at the VAR's head.....
    I will be completely unshocked if there are some Russian shenanigans at the World Cup.
    I would imagine our fans are going to be in for a bit of a beating
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,321
    Cyclefree said:



    It is perfectly possible to admire the sacrifices of the Russian people in the 1940’s while despising Putin and his regime today.

    I think historically we do have the Soviets to thank for taking the lion's share of defeaing the Nazis, and equally it's obvious that Stalin was a monster. But it's all a bit irrelevant - right or wrong, good or evil or mixed, nearly everyone involved is now dead. We should judge Putin as Putin, not by reference to what happened 75 years ago.
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    John_M said:

    John_M said:

    kle4 said:

    Just did a YouGov poll which was asking about how I'd vote if different electoral systems were used (eg having a constituency vote and a regional vote), but the interesting part was a list of statements about politics and to list which were true or false, such as if the LDs favour PR, that the number of MPs is about 100, when polling stations close etc. I've not really come across a poll which actually tests the respondents' knowledge at the end.

    I actually have no idea what the Lib Dem’s stance is on anything other than brexit these days and I am on Pb. How the hell Maureen from Margate has any idea is beyond me.
    One penny on income tax for the, sorry, OUR NHS, I think. But that's all I know.
    Reports that one penny on NI for the NHS is likely to be announced in the Autumn budget
    I'm not a fan of hypothecated taxes. May is still dead to me.
    I think that is lib dem policy and looks as if it could become conservative policy. It would be popular
    Careful .... the slippery slope to sandals, beards and quorn sausages beckons !!
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,110
    kle4 said:

    Meanwhile, off-topic, the spirit of Kafka is alive even if this poor chap is officially not...

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/16/romanian-court-tells-man-he-is-not-alive

    "In a case reminiscent of a Kafka novel, a Romanian court has ruled that a 63-year-old man is dead despite what would appear to be convincing evidence to the contrary: the man himself appearing alive and well in court.

    Constantin Reliu asked the court in the town of Barlad to overturn a death certificate obtained by his wife after he had spent more than a decade in Turkey, during which time he was out of contact with his family. The court told him he was too late, and would have to remain officially deceased."

    He may never have found out about his death in his homeland had he not been apprehended by Turkish authorities earlier this year and deported back to Romania because of expired documents. Reliu had planned to renew his passport in Romania and return to Turkey, but on arrival, he was detained by immigration officers who informed him he had died in 2003.

    Tricky one - he cannot renew his passport, because he is dead.
    Reminds me of the famous case of the Countess of Warwick in 1473. She was the wealthiest landowner in England. However, after her husband was killed in 1471, her two sons-in-law - who just happened to be the brothers of the King - decided to seize her lands. To keep them happy, Edward IV declared the Countess legally dead and ordered her lands be divided between her daughters - in effect, between his brothers. For some reason the Countess was most displeased about this, petitioning everyone she could think of to reverse it, but to no avail.

    Even that didn't satisfy his youngest brother, who seized the lands of the Dowager Countess of Oxford as well, with even less legality. That pales however beside the climax of his career where after Edward IV's death he seized the throne, caused his nephews to disappear, allegedly tried to rape his niece and was killed in battle when almost his entire army abandoned him.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,572

    John_M said:

    kle4 said:

    Just did a YouGov poll which was asking about how I'd vote if different electoral systems were used (eg having a constituency vote and a regional vote), but the interesting part was a list of statements about politics and to list which were true or false, such as if the LDs favour PR, that the number of MPs is about 100, when polling stations close etc. I've not really come across a poll which actually tests the respondents' knowledge at the end.

    I actually have no idea what the Lib Dem’s stance is on anything other than brexit these days and I am on Pb. How the hell Maureen from Margate has any idea is beyond me.
    One penny on income tax for the, sorry, OUR NHS, I think. But that's all I know.
    Reports that one penny on NI for the NHS is likely to be announced in the Autumn budget
    Surely better to put it on income tax, else those of us who are likely to need it most (i.e. pensioners) will not be contributing.
    There is some talk of NI being extended to working pensioners and that is long overdue
    Er 'working pensioners'?... They'll already pay NI on their employment earnings if over the lower earnings limit. It needs to be applied to pensions and other income.
    Ni is not payable when you reach retirement age and continue working
    Apols, I stand corrected.
  • Options
    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,286
    edited March 2018
    How many people have received their Council Tax bill?

    I received my bill in Hertsmere today and the presentation of the increase is highly misleading - if anyone set it out in this way in a GCSE exam they should fail.

    There are two lines for the County Council bit:

    Herts County Council
    Herts County Council (Adult Social Care)

    In the % increase column it says both amounts have gone up 3%.

    Then underneath there is a note which says "The percentage changes are both applied to the full 2017/18 council tax for the County Council"

    Well guess what - the total of these two amounts for Herts County Council has actually gone up 5.99% compared to the total of the two same amounts in 2017/18!

    It's deliberately misleading - my charge for Adult Social Care has gone up from £71.40 in 17/18 to £117.07 in 18/19 - a rise of 64% - yet the bill says it's risen 3%!

    Of course I know what's happened - they've increased the "non Social Care" bit by 3% and then added another 3% of the TOTAL prior year bill for additional Social Care to give a 6% rise (actually 5.99%).
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,748

    Cyclefree said:



    It is perfectly possible to admire the sacrifices of the Russian people in the 1940’s while despising Putin and his regime today.

    I think historically we do have the Soviets to thank for taking the lion's share of defeaing the Nazis, and equally it's obvious that Stalin was a monster. But it's all a bit irrelevant - right or wrong, good or evil or mixed, nearly everyone involved is now dead. We should judge Putin as Putin, not by reference to what happened 75 years ago.
    Putin as Putin seems to yield a pretty barren crop if you're looking for good things.
  • Options
    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    Omnium said:

    John_M said:

    John_M said:

    kle4 said:

    Just did a YouGov poll which was asking about how I'd vote if different electoral systems were used (eg having a constituency vote and a regional vote), but the interesting part was a list of statements about politics and to list which were true or false, such as if the LDs favour PR, that the number of MPs is about 100, when polling stations close etc. I've not really come across a poll which actually tests the respondents' knowledge at the end.

    I actually have no idea what the Lib Dem’s stance is on anything other than brexit these days and I am on Pb. How the hell Maureen from Margate has any idea is beyond me.
    One penny on income tax for the, sorry, OUR NHS, I think. But that's all I know.
    Reports that one penny on NI for the NHS is likely to be announced in the Autumn budget
    I'm not a fan of hypothecated taxes. May is still dead to me.
    "I'm not a fan of hypothecated taxes" - why not? I don't like the admin, but overall for the NHS (say) I can see some merit.

    They distort financial planning - it's the same reason I disliked the ringfencing of some departmental budgets (while appreciating the political benefits of doing so).

    We need an integrated health and social care system. It needs to be done properly, and then taxes raised appropriately to ensure it's well funded.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,631
    Omnium said:

    If you imagine a statement like 'There is no place for Russia in the civilised world'. You could discuss such a statement now, almost endlessly. I'm not sure there has been a time for the last 150 years or so when that was not the case

    I'd argue there was one: 1991-2000. If the West had considered the opportunity, if Yeltsin wasn't a drunk, if it had been done right instead of wrongly, if, if, if,... we could have had a more pro-Western Russia and we could have dealt with things like militant Islamism as allies. A lot of things would have had to have happened (George HW Bush winning in 1992, a huge long list) but if we'd've pulled it off it would have been brilliant.

    But we didn't... :(
  • Options
    TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    Omnium said:

    Cyclefree said:



    It is perfectly possible to admire the sacrifices of the Russian people in the 1940’s while despising Putin and his regime today.

    I think historically we do have the Soviets to thank for taking the lion's share of defeaing the Nazis, and equally it's obvious that Stalin was a monster. But it's all a bit irrelevant - right or wrong, good or evil or mixed, nearly everyone involved is now dead. We should judge Putin as Putin, not by reference to what happened 75 years ago.
    Putin as Putin seems to yield a pretty barren crop if you're looking for good things.
    Putin is a bad guy although on the scale of worst to best possible national leaders he's not in the Hitler Stalin category.

    Stability, probably less the case than with Iraq and Saddam but he does at least provide some stability to a large area which could provide problems if it had weaker leadership.

    Which isn't to say anything good really, plenty of very bad world leaders could do the same, I imagine if I was Russian I would happily take my chances with a change if I had the option.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    O/T

    "Berlin Brandenburg Airport Operator Requests €770 Million to Finish Construction"

    https://airlinegeeks.com/2018/02/25/berlin-brandenburg-airport-operator-requests-e770-million-to-finish-construction/
  • Options
    ElliotElliot Posts: 1,516

    Omnium said:

    Cyclefree said:



    It is perfectly possible to admire the sacrifices of the Russian people in the 1940’s while despising Putin and his regime today.

    I think historically we do have the Soviets to thank for taking the lion's share of defeaing the Nazis, and equally it's obvious that Stalin was a monster. But it's all a bit irrelevant - right or wrong, good or evil or mixed, nearly everyone involved is now dead. We should judge Putin as Putin, not by reference to what happened 75 years ago.
    Putin as Putin seems to yield a pretty barren crop if you're looking for good things.
    Putin is a bad guy although on the scale of worst to best possible national leaders he's not in the Hitler Stalin category.

    Stability, probably less the case than with Iraq and Saddam but he does at least provide some stability to a large area which could provide problems if it had weaker leadership.

    Which isn't to say anything good really, plenty of very bad world leaders could do the same, I imagine if I was Russian I would happily take my chances with a change if I had the option.
    I don't think he has provided much stability to Georgia and Ukraine.
  • Options
    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    Cyclefree said:



    It is perfectly possible to admire the sacrifices of the Russian people in the 1940’s while despising Putin and his regime today.

    I think historically we do have the Soviets to thank for taking the lion's share of defeaing the Nazis, and equally it's obvious that Stalin was a monster. But it's all a bit irrelevant - right or wrong, good or evil or mixed, nearly everyone involved is now dead. We should judge Putin as Putin, not by reference to what happened 75 years ago.
    Have you expressed a view - do you agree with Corbyn?
  • Options
    ElliotElliot Posts: 1,516

    Cyclefree said:



    It is perfectly possible to admire the sacrifices of the Russian people in the 1940’s while despising Putin and his regime today.

    I think historically we do have the Soviets to thank for taking the lion's share of defeaing the Nazis, and equally it's obvious that Stalin was a monster. But it's all a bit irrelevant - right or wrong, good or evil or mixed, nearly everyone involved is now dead. We should judge Putin as Putin, not by reference to what happened 75 years ago.
    The lion's share in terms of casualties, but it was American resources that did it.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,572
    edited March 2018
    MikeL said:

    How many people have received their Council Tax bill?

    I received my bill in Hertsmere today and the presentation of the increase is highly misleading - if anyone set it out in this way in a GCSE exam they should fail.

    There are two lines for the County Council bit:

    Herts County Council
    Herts County Council (Adult Social Care)

    In the % increase column it says both amounts have gone up 3%.

    Then underneath there is a note which says "The percentage changes are both applied to the full 2017/18 council tax for the County Council"

    Well guess what - the total of these two amounts for Herts County Council has actually gone up 5.99% compared to the total of the two same amounts in 2017/18!

    It's deliberately misleading - my charge for Adult Social Care has gone up from £71.40 in 17/18 to £117.07 in 18/19 - a rise of 64% - yet the bill says it's risen 3%!

    Of course I know what's happened - they've increased the "non Social Care" bit by 3% and then added another 3% of the TOTAL prior year bill for additional Social Care to give a 6% rise (actually 5.99%).

    Ha! Almost the identical thing in North Dorset. Got ours today and from a quick scan was trying to work out how the overall had gone up by 5.6% when the individual components all look like 3%-4% rises. Why can't they just be honest? If adult social care costs are rising so rapidly it would be much better to make that plain.

    I understand we as a country need to find a fair way to pay for this. There is no point in trying to hide it.
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    ElliotElliot Posts: 1,516
    edited March 2018
    FF43 said:

    Elliot said:

    Sad but true - the declining power of the U.K. post Brexit.

    https://twitter.com/chrisgreybrexit/status/974740440057606144

    Same old nonsense doesn't become more true because someone wrote a blogpost about it. We have had more backing from Norway than Ireland because one is a NATO member and one is an EU member. The Trump extrapolation is also misguided, given he won't survive beyond 2020, if he even survives that far.
    The point is that the United Kingdom has very little influence on its own. It needs to act in consort with groups of like minded nations. There really is only one group that fits the bill - the European Union. We don't absolutely have to be members to have a beneficial relationship with the EU, but it will be harder work to get sporadic attention, instead of a matter of course. We will be heaving close to the EU seeking influence on its terms.

    Edit. We are swapping member state for client state. Which makes Brexit interesting. No-one has done this before
    This is ridiculous. We are talking about influence vis a vis Russia, which has an economy half the size of ours, far fewer allies, and much less cultural influence internationally. You may want the UK to be weak to suit your narrative, but it isn't true.
  • Options
    Torby_FennelTorby_Fennel Posts: 438
    edited March 2018
    MikeL said:

    How many people have received their Council Tax bill?

    I received my bill in Hertsmere today and the presentation of the increase is highly misleading - if anyone set it out in this way in a GCSE exam they should fail.

    There are two lines for the County Council bit:

    Herts County Council
    Herts County Council (Adult Social Care)

    In the % increase column it says both amounts have gone up 3%.

    Then underneath there is a note which says "The percentage changes are both applied to the full 2017/18 council tax for the County Council"

    Well guess what - the total of these two amounts for Herts County Council has actually gone up 5.99% compared to the total of the two same amounts in 2017/18!

    It's deliberately misleading - my charge for Adult Social Care has gone up from £71.40 in 17/18 to £117.07 in 18/19 - a rise of 64% - yet the bill says it's risen 3%!

    Of course I know what's happened - they've increased the "non Social Care" bit by 3% and then added another 3% of the TOTAL prior year bill for additional Social Care to give a 6% rise (actually 5.99%).

    A similar tale with my bill here in Lincoln where the adult social care portion of my bill has risen from £29.53 to £45.13 and they're calling it a 2% increase... I call it a 52.8% increase myself. It's a dishonest presentation of the figures to say the least.

  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,692
    Pub quiz for Friday night. Without reaching for Google can you name the French Prime Minister?
  • Options
    TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    Elliot said:

    Omnium said:

    Cyclefree said:



    It is perfectly possible to admire the sacrifices of the Russian people in the 1940’s while despising Putin and his regime today.

    I think historically we do have the Soviets to thank for taking the lion's share of defeaing the Nazis, and equally it's obvious that Stalin was a monster. But it's all a bit irrelevant - right or wrong, good or evil or mixed, nearly everyone involved is now dead. We should judge Putin as Putin, not by reference to what happened 75 years ago.
    Putin as Putin seems to yield a pretty barren crop if you're looking for good things.
    Putin is a bad guy although on the scale of worst to best possible national leaders he's not in the Hitler Stalin category.

    Stability, probably less the case than with Iraq and Saddam but he does at least provide some stability to a large area which could provide problems if it had weaker leadership.

    Which isn't to say anything good really, plenty of very bad world leaders could do the same, I imagine if I was Russian I would happily take my chances with a change if I had the option.
    I don't think he has provided much stability to Georgia and Ukraine.
    Probably not, just to be clear, when I say he is bad but not Hitler or Stalin that is pretty much what I mean. There have been a few cases recently were bad guys have been taken out and the situation has got worse. Although I generally think of Russia as a more advanced* society than some of these places (though quite frankly I'm making assumptions based on little knowledge) there is still a chance of major problems if Russia descended into chaos. Whilst I would really like someone other than Putin it would be best if it wasn't an angry revolution and chaos that sparks the change.

    *In terms of something that could more easily convert to a more open democracy.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,572
    Elliot said:

    FF43 said:

    Elliot said:

    Sad but true - the declining power of the U.K. post Brexit.

    https://twitter.com/chrisgreybrexit/status/974740440057606144

    Same old nonsense doesn't become more true because someone wrote a blogpost about it. We have had more backing from Norway than Ireland because one is a NATO member and one is an EU member. The Trump extrapolation is also misguided, given he won't survive beyond 2020, if he even survives that far.
    The point is that the United Kingdom has very little influence on its own. It needs to act in consort with groups of like minded nations. There really is only one group that fits the bill - the European Union. We don't absolutely have to be members to have a beneficial relationship with the EU, but it will be harder work to get sporadic attention, instead of a matter of course. We will be heaving close to the EU seeking influence on its terms.

    Edit. We are swapping member state for client state. Which makes Brexit interesting. No-one has done this before
    This is ridiculous. We are talking about influence vis a vis Russia, which has an economy half the size of ours, far fewer allies, and much less cultural influence internationally.
    The 'economy half the size of ours' bit is misleading though because in PPP terms their economy is 40% bigger than ours.
  • Options
    ElliotElliot Posts: 1,516

    Elliot said:

    Omnium said:

    Cyclefree said:



    It is perfectly possible to admire the sacrifices of the Russian people in the 1940’s while despising Putin and his regime today.

    I think historically we do have the Soviets to thank for taking the lion's share of defeaing the Nazis, and equally it's obvious that Stalin was a monster. But it's all a bit irrelevant - right or wrong, good or evil or mixed, nearly everyone involved is now dead. We should judge Putin as Putin, not by reference to what happened 75 years ago.
    Putin as Putin seems to yield a pretty barren crop if you're looking for good things.
    Putin is a bad guy although on the scale of worst to best possible national leaders he's not in the Hitler Stalin category.

    Stability, probably less the case than with Iraq and Saddam but he does at least provide some stability to a large area which could provide problems if it had weaker leadership.

    Which isn't to say anything good really, plenty of very bad world leaders could do the same, I imagine if I was Russian I would happily take my chances with a change if I had the option.
    I don't think he has provided much stability to Georgia and Ukraine.
    Probably not, just to be clear, when I say he is bad but not Hitler or Stalin that is pretty much what I mean. There have been a few cases recently were bad guys have been taken out and the situation has got worse. Although I generally think of Russia as a more advanced* society than some of these places (though quite frankly I'm making assumptions based on little knowledge) there is still a chance of major problems if Russia descended into chaos. Whilst I would really like someone other than Putin it would be best if it wasn't an angry revolution and chaos that sparks the change.

    *In terms of something that could more easily convert to a more open democracy.
    Ukraine was already converting to democracy when Russia intervened. It has been deliberately subverting democracy there for decades but especially after the Orange Revolution.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,572
    edited March 2018
    FF43 said:

    Pub quiz for Friday night. Without reaching for Google can you name the French Prime Minister?

    In my case, the correct answer is 'No'... Do I get a point? :wink:
  • Options

    FF43 said:

    Pub quiz for Friday night. Without reaching for Google can you name the French Prime Minister?

    In my case, the correct answer is 'No'... Do I get a point? :wink:
    Are you allowed to get your wife to google it
  • Options
    TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    edited March 2018
    Did you actually disagree with anything in my post?

    I am well aware of Russian intervention in Ukraine, you mentioned it in the post I was quoting. This is partially why I think Putin is a bad guy.

    Do you think he is as bad as Hitler is that what you disagreed with?

    Or did you disagree with the idea that Russia descending into chaos might be bad?

    I'm not sure where the objectionable bit is to be honest.

    Edit: I'm off for a bit.


  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,110

    MikeL said:

    How many people have received their Council Tax bill?

    I received my bill in Hertsmere today and the presentation of the increase is highly misleading - if anyone set it out in this way in a GCSE exam they should fail.

    There are two lines for the County Council bit:

    Herts County Council
    Herts County Council (Adult Social Care)

    In the % increase column it says both amounts have gone up 3%.

    Then underneath there is a note which says "The percentage changes are both applied to the full 2017/18 council tax for the County Council"

    Well guess what - the total of these two amounts for Herts County Council has actually gone up 5.99% compared to the total of the two same amounts in 2017/18!

    It's deliberately misleading - my charge for Adult Social Care has gone up from £71.40 in 17/18 to £117.07 in 18/19 - a rise of 64% - yet the bill says it's risen 3%!

    Of course I know what's happened - they've increased the "non Social Care" bit by 3% and then added another 3% of the TOTAL prior year bill for additional Social Care to give a 6% rise (actually 5.99%).

    A similar tale with my bill here in Lincoln where the adult social care portion of my bill has risen from £29.53 to £45.13 and they're calling it a 2% increase... I call it a 52.8% increase myself. It's a dishonest presentation of the figures to say the least.

    Same here in Cannock Chase. ASC has risen from £41.70 to £68.30, which apparently is a rise of 3%.
  • Options
    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    There is no logical justification for pensioners (working or otherwise) having to pay NI, since they accrue no benefits by doing so. Probably employers national insurance should apply however (assuming it doesn’t already, i haven’t checked)
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,321
    edited March 2018
    Floater said:

    Cyclefree said:



    It is perfectly possible to admire the sacrifices of the Russian people in the 1940’s while despising Putin and his regime today.

    I think historically we do have the Soviets to thank for taking the lion's share of defeaing the Nazis, and equally it's obvious that Stalin was a monster. But it's all a bit irrelevant - right or wrong, good or evil or mixed, nearly everyone involved is now dead. We should judge Putin as Putin, not by reference to what happened 75 years ago.
    Have you expressed a view - do you agree with Corbyn?
    Broadly yes, though I think it's probable that the Russian state is implicated and we should say so clearly and retaliate against a monstrous act of attempted murder. I agree wih the balance between retaliatory measures - the diplomat expulsions that he supports, and the financial crackdown on oligarchs that the Government has shrunk from - without some of the rhetoric that appears to jump straight back into the cold war. I find his calm approach more appropriate for a national leader than instant rhetoric, and I think the Daily Mail suggestion that those of us who feel like that are motivated by affection for Putin is a smear.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,692
    Elliot said:

    FF43 said:

    Elliot said:

    Sad but true - the declining power of the U.K. post Brexit.

    https://twitter.com/chrisgreybrexit/status/974740440057606144

    Same old nonsense doesn't become more true because someone wrote a blogpost about it. We have had more backing from Norway than Ireland because one is a NATO member and one is an EU member. The Trump extrapolation is also misguided, given he won't survive beyond 2020, if he even survives that far.
    The point is that the United Kingdom has very little influence on its own. It needs to act in consort with groups of like minded nations. There really is only one group that fits the bill - the European Union. We don't absolutely have to be members to have a beneficial relationship with the EU, but it will be harder work to get sporadic attention, instead of a matter of course. We will be heaving close to the EU seeking influence on its terms.

    Edit. We are swapping member state for client state. Which makes Brexit interesting. No-one has done this before
    This is ridiculous. We are talking about influence vis a vis Russia, which has an economy half the size of ours, far fewer allies, and much less cultural influence internationally. You may want the UK to be weak to suit your narrative, but it isn't true.
    Why would I want the UK to be weak? I see the relative loss of influence as a bad thing. Influence gets you more of what you want or need. It isn't an abstract concept.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,572
    AndyJS said:

    O/T

    "Berlin Brandenburg Airport Operator Requests €770 Million to Finish Construction"

    https://airlinegeeks.com/2018/02/25/berlin-brandenburg-airport-operator-requests-e770-million-to-finish-construction/

    Schadenfreude opportunity! :wink:
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,027
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,321
    alex. said:

    There is no logical justification for pensioners (working or otherwise) having to pay NI, since they accrue no benefits by doing so. Probably employers national insurance should apply however (assuming it doesn’t already, i haven’t checked)

    I believe NI is partly used for the broader welfare state, so (speaking as someone working at 68) a reduced rate might be a fair compromise. Employers don't pay NI on pensioners and I agree they should, to avoid giving a reason to discriminate against the young.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,645
    edited March 2018

    Floater said:

    Cyclefree said:



    It is perfectly possible to admire the sacrifices of the Russian people in the 1940’s while despising Putin and his regime today.

    I think historically we do have the Soviets to thank for taking the lion's share of defeaing the Nazis, and equally it's obvious that Stalin was a monster. But it's all a bit irrelevant - right or wrong, good or evil or mixed, nearly everyone involved is now dead. We should judge Putin as Putin, not by reference to what happened 75 years ago.
    Have you expressed a view - do you agree with Corbyn?
    Broadly yes, though I think it's probable that the Russian state is implicated and we should say so clearly and retaliate against a monstrous act of attempted murder. I agree wih the balance between retaliatory measures - the diplomat expulsions that he supports, and the financial crackdown on oligarchs that the Government has shrunk from - without some of the rhetoric that appears to jump straight back into the cold war. I find his calm approach more appropriate for a national leader than instant rhetoric, and I think the Daily Mail suggestion that those of us who feel like that are motivated by affection for Putin is a smear.
    I remain baffled at the idea that stern rhetoric is apparently going over all cold war - that feels like what used to be called a smear, and based on nothing but people desperate to reach for cold war analogs- and why, given the actually quite measured reaction, Corbyn seems so keen to act like the government is overreacting because of stern rhetoric, which actually seems pretty common in international relations thesedays, and certainly not something that will surprise Russia. Not overreacting to things is important, but it is ok to react first, and if someone is going to tell me the defence secretary making a stupid comment is overreacting, then I would suggest that is pretty darn silly.

    In which case what overeaction is being complained about? Politicians expressing outrage in direct fashion? We aren't allowed to do that after what the government, and opposition apparently, believe was an attack on this country? Russia would react totally differently if MPs had not stood up to condemn them in such strong terms, but if they had done so in slightly less strong terms? Pull the other one,
  • Options
    Good news if true
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited March 2018

    AndyJS said:

    O/T

    "Berlin Brandenburg Airport Operator Requests €770 Million to Finish Construction"

    https://airlinegeeks.com/2018/02/25/berlin-brandenburg-airport-operator-requests-e770-million-to-finish-construction/

    Schadenfreude opportunity! :wink:
    I'm not interested in schadenfreude, I'm just fascinated by how long it seems to be taking them to finish this project and how it could go so wrong in a country that used to be known for doing projects like this on time. I like visiting new airports so I wish they'd finish it as soon as possible.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,572
    alex. said:

    There is no logical justification for pensioners (working or otherwise) having to pay NI, since they accrue no benefits by doing so. Probably employers national insurance should apply however (assuming it doesn’t already, i haven’t checked)

    Therein lies the problem of hypothecated tax. NI revenues do more than cover retirement and uneployment benefits - e.g. they support the NHS, which pensioners certainly make use of!
  • Options
    tysontyson Posts: 6,049

    alex. said:

    There is no logical justification for pensioners (working or otherwise) having to pay NI, since they accrue no benefits by doing so. Probably employers national insurance should apply however (assuming it doesn’t already, i haven’t checked)

    I believe NI is partly used for the broader welfare state, so (speaking as someone working at 68) a reduced rate might be a fair compromise. Employers don't pay NI on pensioners and I agree they should, to avoid giving a reason to discriminate against the young.
    Exactly....the reason why people pay taxes is for the greater good.... If we only do things on an individual basis then we my as well beat each other with clubs and fight for food....

    BTW...my wife was encouraged to pay into a salary exchange scheme this year. This is criminal tax evasion, nothing more, nothing less...an appalling tax fiddle for wealthy people...

    When I was working for the health service we used to have courses to encourage consultants and whatnot to fiddle their taxes and build up ghastly tax pots.

    Since I've come back to the UK I've taken an interest in finance...it's disgusting how much my personal ISA's have grown for doing nothing other than thoughtlessly investing cash I couldn't spend...


  • Options
    RhubarbRhubarb Posts: 359
    alex. said:

    There is no logical justification for pensioners (working or otherwise) having to pay NI, since they accrue no benefits by doing so. Probably employers national insurance should apply however (assuming it doesn’t already, i haven’t checked)

    If there's no justification for pensioners paying NI, then there's no justification for those who are working age but have completed their 35 years to pay it either.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Gunman is on the run after heavily pregnant woman and another person are shot in st Leonards.
  • Options
    MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651
    edited March 2018

    alex. said:

    There is no logical justification for pensioners (working or otherwise) having to pay NI, since they accrue no benefits by doing so. Probably employers national insurance should apply however (assuming it doesn’t already, i haven’t checked)

    Therein lies the problem of hypothecated tax. NI revenues do more than cover retirement and uneployment benefits - e.g. they support the NHS, which pensioners certainly make use of!
    I've wondered in the past whether the most logical solution is simply to rename "NI" as "NHS Tax" (after all, everyone loves the NHS, so who could possibly disagree with being taxed for it?) and align its thresholds with those for income tax, so that there is essentially a single "Actual income tax" i.e. "Income + NHS" tax rate in each band. Am sure someone will point out the major flaws in this idea shortly...

    Probably ranks quite highly in the "What Would Michael Gove Do?" list had he ended up as Chancellor. (I mean "NHS tax" in name only, with no necessity for it to be spent on anything in particular...)
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,572
    edited March 2018
    Contains this gem:

    "Fears among Brexiteers that the UK will become a “vassal state” during the transition is expected to be assuaged by a clause - which is already in the EU treaties - that allows the UK to ignore the common EU foreign policy if it impacts the “vital interests” of the UK."
  • Options
    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,286
    edited March 2018
    Thanks for all your replies.

    So basically it looks as if every Council Tax bill in the country is being presented in a way that is dishonest and quite simply factually incorrect.

    We hear a lot about mis-selling and enquiries to put things right - well we now have the state in the form of Local Government (of all parties) going straight ahead and treating the public like absolute fools.

    It may seem pedantic but it's not - we are talking about everyone's Council Tax bill - there cannot possibly be any justification for this whatsoever - seriously someone should tell Theresa May about this tomorrow morning and she should order that all these bills are sent out properly.
  • Options
    alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    ydoethur said:

    MikeL said:

    How many people have received their Council Tax bill?

    I received my bill in Hertsmere today and the presentation of the increase is highly misleading - if anyone set it out in this way in a GCSE exam they should fail.

    There are two lines for the County Council bit:

    Herts County Council
    Herts County Council (Adult Social Care)

    In the % increase column it says both amounts have gone up 3%.

    Then underneath there is a note which says "The percentage changes are both applied to the full 2017/18 council tax for the County Council"

    Well guess what - the total of these two amounts for Herts County Council has actually gone up 5.99% compared to the total of the two same amounts in 2017/18!

    It's deliberately misleading - my charge for Adult Social Care has gone up from £71.40 in 17/18 to £117.07 in 18/19 - a rise of 64% - yet the bill says it's risen 3%!

    Of course I know what's happened - they've increased the "non Social Care" bit by 3% and then added another 3% of the TOTAL prior year bill for additional Social Care to give a 6% rise (actually 5.99%).

    A similar tale with my bill here in Lincoln where the adult social care portion of my bill has risen from £29.53 to £45.13 and they're calling it a 2% increase... I call it a 52.8% increase myself. It's a dishonest presentation of the figures to say the least.

    Same here in Cannock Chase. ASC has risen from £41.70 to £68.30, which apparently is a rise of 3%.
    If it’s misleading, it’s the government’s fault. They were the ones who originally capped council tax increases and then modified it by allowing additional increases hypothecated to Adult Social care. This is the second year I’d the additional adult social care precept, so obviously in most cases it equates to effectively a 100% increase on that element. However it is a 100% increase on a relatively smaller proportion of the overall bill. And, as ever with Council tax, you have to remember that Council’s are subject to inflationary pressures like everyone else but they are the only one’s who get judged without reference to inflation. (Most govt revenues, for example, being percentage based, of course rise automatically with inflation so they don’t attract the same level of vitriol).
  • Options


    Contains this gem:

    "Fears among Brexiteers that the UK will become a “vassal state” during the transition is expected to be assuaged by a clause - which is already in the EU treaties - that allows the UK to ignore the common EU foreign policy if it impacts the “vital interests” of the UK."
    It's called fudge Ben
  • Options
    oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831
    kle4 said:



    I remain baffled at the idea that stern rhetoric is apparently going over all cold war - that feels like what used to be called a smear, and based on nothing but people desperate to reach for cold war analogs- and why, given the actually quite measured reaction, Corbyn seems so keen to act like the government is overreacting because of stern rhetoric, which actually seems pretty common in international relations thesedays, and certainly not something that will surprise Russia. Not overreacting to things is important, but it is ok to react first, and if someone is going to tell me the defence secretary making a stupid comment is overreacting, then I would suggest that is pretty darn silly.

    In which case what overeaction is being complained about? Politicians expressing outrage in direct fashion? We aren't allowed to do that after what the government, and opposition apparently, believe was an attack on this country? Russia would react totally differently if MPs had not stood up to condemn them in such strong terms, but if they had done so in slightly less strong terms? Pull the other one,

    There has not been any over-reaction. It has been a measured and tailored response to the use of chemical weapons on UK soil.

    Corbyn got it wrong. He should have put national security and support for our investigatory authorities front and centre. He failed to do so.

    His was not a calm response. It was a pathetic attempt to play politics in the face of chemical warfare. A leader has to represent their country - again Corbyn and his spokesman failed. They represented their own skewed world view - a world view that is very clear from their previous comments on Russia-related matters.

    He isn't motivated by affection for Putin - but he is motivated by the idea that the West is always wrong and those who oppose the West are worth supporting.

    Mr Palmer underplays the significance of the events in Salisbury. It wasn't just attempted murder. It was the use of chemical weapons against a resident of the UK - a fellow member of the G8 and UN Security Council. An act that should be condemned for what it is.

    This is not the time for weasel words. From Mr Corbyn or Mr Palmer.
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,572

    alex. said:

    There is no logical justification for pensioners (working or otherwise) having to pay NI, since they accrue no benefits by doing so. Probably employers national insurance should apply however (assuming it doesn’t already, i haven’t checked)

    Therein lies the problem of hypothecated tax. NI revenues do more than cover retirement and uneployment benefits - e.g. they support the NHS, which pensioners certainly make use of!
    I've wondered in the past whether the most logical solution is simply to rename "NI" as "NHS Tax" (after all, everyone loves the NHS, so who could possibly disagree with being taxed for it?) and align its thresholds with those for income tax, so that there is essentially a single "Actual income tax" i.e. "Income + NHS" tax rate in each band. Am sure someone will point out the major flaws in this idea shortly...

    Probably ranks quite highly in the "What Would Michael Gove Do?" list had he ended up as Chancellor.
    Just roll NI and income tax into one over an extended period of, say, 10 years, to ease the impact. That way people living off non-employment income will contribute at the same rates the rest of do (or did in my case until I retired in December).
  • Options
    BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 31,572
    edited March 2018


    Contains this gem:

    "Fears among Brexiteers that the UK will become a “vassal state” during the transition is expected to be assuaged by a clause - which is already in the EU treaties - that allows the UK to ignore the common EU foreign policy if it impacts the “vital interests” of the UK."
    It's called fudge Ben
    Well yes, which is how we both know it will inevitably end. But my point is, the clause which stops us being a vassal state is 'already in the EU treaties'. Maybe someone should tell JRM & co!
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274

    kle4 said:



    I remain baffled at the idea that stern rhetoric is apparently going over all cold war - that feels like what used to be called a smear, and based on nothing but people desperate to reach for cold war analogs- and why, given the actually quite measured reaction, Corbyn seems so keen to act like the government is overreacting because of stern rhetoric, which actually seems pretty common in international relations thesedays, and certainly not something that will surprise Russia. Not overreacting to things is important, but it is ok to react first, and if someone is going to tell me the defence secretary making a stupid comment is overreacting, then I would suggest that is pretty darn silly.

    In which case what overeaction is being complained about? Politicians expressing outrage in direct fashion? We aren't allowed to do that after what the government, and opposition apparently, believe was an attack on this country? Russia would react totally differently if MPs had not stood up to condemn them in such strong terms, but if they had done so in slightly less strong terms? Pull the other one,

    There has not been any over-reaction. It has been a measured and tailored response to the use of chemical weapons on UK soil.

    Corbyn got it wrong. He should have put national security and support for our investigatory authorities front and centre. He failed to do so.

    His was not a calm response. It was a pathetic attempt to play politics in the face of chemical warfare. A leader has to represent their country - again Corbyn and his spokesman failed. They represented their own skewed world view - a world view that is very clear from their previous comments on Russia-related matters.

    He isn't motivated by affection for Putin - but he is motivated by the idea that the West is always wrong and those who oppose the West are worth supporting.

    Mr Palmer underplays the significance of the events in Salisbury. It wasn't just attempted murder. It was the use of chemical weapons against a resident of the UK - a fellow member of the G8 and UN Security Council. An act that should be condemned for what it is.

    This is not the time for weasel words. From Mr Corbyn or Mr Palmer.
    Also the criticism of corbyn hasn’t just been from the daily mail as a smear, it has come from his own party, the guardian etc
  • Options
    ElliotElliot Posts: 1,516


    Contains this gem:

    "Fears among Brexiteers that the UK will become a “vassal state” during the transition is expected to be assuaged by a clause - which is already in the EU treaties - that allows the UK to ignore the common EU foreign policy if it impacts the “vital interests” of the UK."
    A bit of a ridiculous statement given the '''vassal" aspect will be fron legislative issues, not foreign policy ones. The raw truth is we will be a vassal state during the transition. That is tolerable for two years, but not longer.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,845
    Elliot said:


    Contains this gem:

    "Fears among Brexiteers that the UK will become a “vassal state” during the transition is expected to be assuaged by a clause - which is already in the EU treaties - that allows the UK to ignore the common EU foreign policy if it impacts the “vital interests” of the UK."
    A bit of a ridiculous statement given the '''vassal" aspect will be fron legislative issues, not foreign policy ones. The raw truth is we will be a vassal state during the transition. That is tolerable for two years, but not longer.
    I thought the plan was in fact to extend vassalage into Brexit itself, due to the necessity of basically mirroring the entire single market and customs union.

    Of course, we’ll have the “theoretical” freedom to diverge, but the practical necessity of retaining access to our largest and nearest markets. Hence, perma-vassalage.

    An unprecedented act of self-immolation.
  • Options
    ElliotElliot Posts: 1,516
    FF43 said:

    Elliot said:

    FF43 said:

    Elliot said:

    Sad but true - the declining power of the U.K. post Brexit.

    https://twitter.com/chrisgreybrexit/status/974740440057606144

    Same old nonsense doesn't become more true because someone wrote a blogpost about it. We have had more backing from Norway than Ireland because one is a NATO member and one is an EU member. The Trump extrapolation is also misguided, given he won't survive beyond 2020, if he even survives that far.
    The point is that the United Kingdom has very little influence on its own. It needs to act in consort with groups of like minded nations. There really is only one group that fits the bill - the European Union. We don't absolutely have to be members to have a beneficial relationship with the EU, but it will be harder work to get sporadic attention, instead of a matter of course. We will be heaving close to the EU seeking influence on its terms.

    Edit. We are swapping member state for client state. Which makes Brexit interesting. No-one has done this before
    This is ridiculous. We are talking about influence vis a vis Russia, which has an economy half the size of ours, far fewer allies, and much less cultural influence internationally. You may want the UK to be weak to suit your narrative, but it isn't true.
    Why would I want the UK to be weak? I see the relative loss of influence as a bad thing. Influence gets you more of what you want or need. It isn't an abstract concept.
    God knows, but it is clearly ridiculous to claim the UK is too weak to operate outside the EU, compared to Russia when we are clearly stronger in every way than they are.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,027
    Elliot said:

    FF43 said:

    Elliot said:

    FF43 said:

    Elliot said:

    Sad but true - the declining power of the U.K. post Brexit.

    https://twitter.com/chrisgreybrexit/status/974740440057606144

    Same old nonsense doesn't become more true because someone wrote a blogpost about it. We have had more backing from Norway than Ireland because one is a NATO member and one is an EU member. The Trump extrapolation is also misguided, given he won't survive beyond 2020, if he even survives that far.
    The point is that the United Kingdom has very little influence on its own. It needs to act in consort with groups of like minded nations. There really is only one group that fits the bill - the European Union. We don't absolutely have to be members to have a beneficial relationship with the EU, but it will be harder work to get sporadic attention, instead of a matter of course. We will be heaving close to the EU seeking influence on its terms.

    Edit. We are swapping member state for client state. Which makes Brexit interesting. No-one has done this before
    This is ridiculous. We are talking about influence vis a vis Russia, which has an economy half the size of ours, far fewer allies, and much less cultural influence internationally. You may want the UK to be weak to suit your narrative, but it isn't true.
    Why would I want the UK to be weak? I see the relative loss of influence as a bad thing. Influence gets you more of what you want or need. It isn't an abstract concept.
    God knows, but it is clearly ridiculous to claim the UK is too weak to operate outside the EU, compared to Russia when we are clearly stronger in every way than they are.
    Do you think Russia operates successfully outside the European system?
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,936
    edited March 2018

    alex. said:

    There is no logical justification for pensioners (working or otherwise) having to pay NI, since they accrue no benefits by doing so. Probably employers national insurance should apply however (assuming it doesn’t already, i haven’t checked)

    I believe NI is partly used for the broader welfare state, so (speaking as someone working at 68) a reduced rate might be a fair compromise. Employers don't pay NI on pensioners and I agree they should, to avoid giving a reason to discriminate against the young.
    Employers do pay NI for pensioners :

    https://www.gov.uk/employee-reaches-state-pension-age
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited March 2018
    Matt does it again...

    image
  • Options


    Contains this gem:

    "Fears among Brexiteers that the UK will become a “vassal state” during the transition is expected to be assuaged by a clause - which is already in the EU treaties - that allows the UK to ignore the common EU foreign policy if it impacts the “vital interests” of the UK."
    It's called fudge Ben
    Well yes, which is how we both know it will inevitably end. But my point is, the clause which stops us being a vassal state is 'already in the EU treaties'. Maybe someone should tell JRM & co!
    I think that this weeks events and Corbyn's action have united the conservative party like nothing else and hopefully a better outcome to Brexit will be the result. The conservative party will not open the door to Corbyn
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    Who says the Telegraph has become a joke...

    City breaks

    The world's 10 cheapest cities
    Damascus, Syria (-14)
    Caracas, Venezuela (-13)
    Almaty, Kazakhstan (+2)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/city-breaks/most-expensive-and-cheapest-cities-2018/

    If I only knew this before I would have booked a spring break to one of those cities...
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,845
    Elliot said:

    FF43 said:

    Elliot said:

    FF43 said:

    Elliot said:

    Sad but true - the declining power of the U.K. post Brexit.

    https://twitter.com/chrisgreybrexit/status/974740440057606144

    Same old nonsense doesn't become more true because someone wrote a blogpost about it. We have had more backing from Norway than Ireland because one is a NATO member and one is an EU member. The Trump extrapolation is also misguided, given he won't survive beyond 2020, if he even survives that far.
    The point is that the United Kingdom has very little influence on its own. It needs to act in consort with groups of like minded nations. There really is only one group that fits the bill - the European Union. We don't absolutely have to be members to have a beneficial relationship with the EU, but it will be harder work to get sporadic attention, instead of a matter of course. We will be heaving close to the EU seeking influence on its terms.

    Edit. We are swapping member state for client state. Which makes Brexit interesting. No-one has done this before
    This is ridiculous. We are talking about influence vis a vis Russia, which has an economy half the size of ours, far fewer allies, and much less cultural influence internationally. You may want the UK to be weak to suit your narrative, but it isn't true.
    Why would I want the UK to be weak? I see the relative loss of influence as a bad thing. Influence gets you more of what you want or need. It isn't an abstract concept.
    God knows, but it is clearly ridiculous to claim the UK is too weak to operate outside the EU, compared to Russia when we are clearly stronger in every way than they are.
    It’s not about UK v Russia, it’s about the relative strength of pre-Brexit U.K. with post-Brexit UK.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    The charity put female aid workers and survivors of the disaster at risk by keeping a senior employee in the country for more than a year after realising that he was a sexual predator, according to an internal report obtained by The Times. It also appeared to have sanctioned prostitution.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/oxfam-hit-by-second-sex-scandal-over-haiti-raphael-mutiku-q85g5c2w3
  • Options
    oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831

    The charity put female aid workers and survivors of the disaster at risk by keeping a senior employee in the country for more than a year after realising that he was a sexual predator, according to an internal report obtained by The Times. It also appeared to have sanctioned prostitution.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/oxfam-hit-by-second-sex-scandal-over-haiti-raphael-mutiku-q85g5c2w3

    Oxfam doesn't deserve to survive this now. Enough is enough. Clear out the board and trustees. Clear out the senior managers. Hunker down, rebrand and that might just be enough. But it has be destroyed to rise again.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    'I was pregnant at 13... the father could have been any of 20 men': Twelve more victims come forward in Telford sex abuse scandal

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/i-pregnant-13-father-could-12202725
  • Options
    MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651

    alex. said:

    There is no logical justification for pensioners (working or otherwise) having to pay NI, since they accrue no benefits by doing so. Probably employers national insurance should apply however (assuming it doesn’t already, i haven’t checked)

    Therein lies the problem of hypothecated tax. NI revenues do more than cover retirement and uneployment benefits - e.g. they support the NHS, which pensioners certainly make use of!
    I've wondered in the past whether the most logical solution is simply to rename "NI" as "NHS Tax" (after all, everyone loves the NHS, so who could possibly disagree with being taxed for it?) and align its thresholds with those for income tax, so that there is essentially a single "Actual income tax" i.e. "Income + NHS" tax rate in each band. Am sure someone will point out the major flaws in this idea shortly...

    Probably ranks quite highly in the "What Would Michael Gove Do?" list had he ended up as Chancellor.
    Just roll NI and income tax into one over an extended period of, say, 10 years, to ease the impact. That way people living off non-employment income will contribute at the same rates the rest of do (or did in my case until I retired in December).
    Aye, arguably sensible, but is it saleable? "NHS tax" at least presents upfront some theoretical reason why pensioners should pay up. I could live with it being two lines on the payslip for a while (well, am self-employed, but had I had a job) until at a later point the final re-badging exercise merges the two. The risk being, I suppose, that it might develop an independent existence, separate rates, and become unmergeable...
  • Options

    'I was pregnant at 13... the father could have been any of 20 men': Twelve more victims come forward in Telford sex abuse scandal

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/i-pregnant-13-father-could-12202725

    Absolutely shocking - what is wrong with these vile men - just pure evil
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274

    alex. said:

    There is no logical justification for pensioners (working or otherwise) having to pay NI, since they accrue no benefits by doing so. Probably employers national insurance should apply however (assuming it doesn’t already, i haven’t checked)

    Therein lies the problem of hypothecated tax. NI revenues do more than cover retirement and uneployment benefits - e.g. they support the NHS, which pensioners certainly make use of!
    I've wondered in the past whether the most logical solution is simply to rename "NI" as "NHS Tax" (after all, everyone loves the NHS, so who could possibly disagree with being taxed for it?) and align its thresholds with those for income tax, so that there is essentially a single "Actual income tax" i.e. "Income + NHS" tax rate in each band. Am sure someone will point out the major flaws in this idea shortly...

    Probably ranks quite highly in the "What Would Michael Gove Do?" list had he ended up as Chancellor.
    Just roll NI and income tax into one over an extended period of, say, 10 years, to ease the impact. That way people living off non-employment income will contribute at the same rates the rest of do (or did in my case until I retired in December).
    Aye, arguably sensible, but is it saleable? "NHS tax" at least presents upfront some theoretical reason why pensioners should pay up. I could live with it being two lines on the payslip for a while (well, am self-employed, but had I had a job) until at a later point the final re-badging exercise merges the two. The risk being, I suppose, that it might develop an independent existence, separate rates, and become unmergeable...
    Osborne kicked this into the long grass when if they had acted in 2010/2011 they probably could have got something like this through.
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,046

    'I was pregnant at 13... the father could have been any of 20 men': Twelve more victims come forward in Telford sex abuse scandal

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/i-pregnant-13-father-could-12202725

    Its all 'sensationalised' according to the local plod.
  • Options
    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,802
    edited March 2018

    Matt does it again...

    image

    It did strike me that mini beast from the east sounds just too much like Russia proceeding straight to biological warfare.

    And, on a more serious note, this twitter thread is of some worth:

    http://www.iflscience.com/chemistry/scientist-brilliantly-tears-conspiracy-theory-about-russian-spy-to-shreds/
  • Options
    hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591

    The charity put female aid workers and survivors of the disaster at risk by keeping a senior employee in the country for more than a year after realising that he was a sexual predator, according to an internal report obtained by The Times. It also appeared to have sanctioned prostitution.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/oxfam-hit-by-second-sex-scandal-over-haiti-raphael-mutiku-q85g5c2w3

    Oxfam doesn't deserve to survive this now. Enough is enough. Clear out the board and trustees. Clear out the senior managers. Hunker down, rebrand and that might just be enough. But it has be destroyed to rise again.
    Funnily enough when I was in London a few weeks back, on Southampton Row there were quite a few Oxfam charity workers trying to drum up some contributions. Talked to one of the girls for a while, felt sorry for her as she was an innocent victim at the coalface in an organisation where all the trouble lay elsewhere. I hope she finds a good future amongst all the rubble, along with a lot of well meaning charity workers who have had nothing to do with the wretched stench of corruption in this sector.
  • Options
    MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651

    alex. said:

    There is no logical justification for pensioners (working or otherwise) having to pay NI, since they accrue no benefits by doing so. Probably employers national insurance should apply however (assuming it doesn’t already, i haven’t checked)

    Therein lies the problem of hypothecated tax. NI revenues do more than cover retirement and uneployment benefits - e.g. they support the NHS, which pensioners certainly make use of!
    I've wondered in the past whether the most logical solution is simply to rename "NI" as "NHS Tax" (after all, everyone loves the NHS, so who could possibly disagree with being taxed for it?) and align its thresholds with those for income tax, so that there is essentially a single "Actual income tax" i.e. "Income + NHS" tax rate in each band. Am sure someone will point out the major flaws in this idea shortly...

    Probably ranks quite highly in the "What Would Michael Gove Do?" list had he ended up as Chancellor.
    Just roll NI and income tax into one over an extended period of, say, 10 years, to ease the impact. That way people living off non-employment income will contribute at the same rates the rest of do (or did in my case until I retired in December).
    Aye, arguably sensible, but is it saleable? "NHS tax" at least presents upfront some theoretical reason why pensioners should pay up. I could live with it being two lines on the payslip for a while (well, am self-employed, but had I had a job) until at a later point the final re-badging exercise merges the two. The risk being, I suppose, that it might develop an independent existence, separate rates, and become unmergeable...
    Osborne kicked this into the long grass when if they had acted in 2010/2011 they probably could have got something like this through.
    The financial crisis might also have presented a good-enough reason for why pensioners had to pay up ("all in it together"). Wonder if the Tory wonder-boys will end up, like Blair, regretting their earlier lack of radicalism. For now they are probably spending most of their time regretting their unanticipated act of democratic ultra-radicalism...
  • Options
    hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591

    Who says the Telegraph has become a joke...

    City breaks

    The world's 10 cheapest cities
    Damascus, Syria (-14)
    Caracas, Venezuela (-13)
    Almaty, Kazakhstan (+2)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/city-breaks/most-expensive-and-cheapest-cities-2018/

    If I only knew this before I would have booked a spring break to one of those cities...

    Almaty is beautiful - well worth while starting off a tour of Central Asia from there. As for Caracas...........that shows just what a misguided ideology socialism is that goes against the grain of human nature.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,645
    hunchman said:

    The charity put female aid workers and survivors of the disaster at risk by keeping a senior employee in the country for more than a year after realising that he was a sexual predator, according to an internal report obtained by The Times. It also appeared to have sanctioned prostitution.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/oxfam-hit-by-second-sex-scandal-over-haiti-raphael-mutiku-q85g5c2w3

    Oxfam doesn't deserve to survive this now. Enough is enough. Clear out the board and trustees. Clear out the senior managers. Hunker down, rebrand and that might just be enough. But it has be destroyed to rise again.
    Funnily enough when I was in London a few weeks back, on Southampton Row there were quite a few Oxfam charity workers trying to drum up some contributions. Talked to one of the girls for a while, felt sorry for her as she was an innocent victim at the coalface in an organisation where all the trouble lay elsewhere. I hope she finds a good future amongst all the rubble, along with a lot of well meaning charity workers who have had nothing to do with the wretched stench of corruption in this sector.
    Where there is a need, another organisation could take Oxfam's place, I am sure, if that is what is felt is needed at this stage so as not to undermine the good work that does go on.
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    oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831
    hunchman said:

    The charity put female aid workers and survivors of the disaster at risk by keeping a senior employee in the country for more than a year after realising that he was a sexual predator, according to an internal report obtained by The Times. It also appeared to have sanctioned prostitution.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/oxfam-hit-by-second-sex-scandal-over-haiti-raphael-mutiku-q85g5c2w3

    Oxfam doesn't deserve to survive this now. Enough is enough. Clear out the board and trustees. Clear out the senior managers. Hunker down, rebrand and that might just be enough. But it has be destroyed to rise again.
    Funnily enough when I was in London a few weeks back, on Southampton Row there were quite a few Oxfam charity workers trying to drum up some contributions. Talked to one of the girls for a while, felt sorry for her as she was an innocent victim at the coalface in an organisation where all the trouble lay elsewhere. I hope she finds a good future amongst all the rubble, along with a lot of well meaning charity workers who have had nothing to do with the wretched stench of corruption in this sector.
    Absolutely. My housemate has volunteered at the local Oxfam bookshop for more than 15 years. She will remain loyal - but feels that this should all have been played down so as not to affect the good work. She can't see that everything is tainted by their failures and in order to recover, it all has to come out.
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