politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Jon Trickett – Labour’s man to sort out the outsourcing mess?
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Winston Churchill, Aneurin Bevan, Manny Shinwell, Quentin Hogg, Denis Healey, Margaret Thatcher, Neil Kinnock, even Tony Blair all had hard things to say at times about their and their parties' opponents. May is mild by comparison.AlastairMeeks said:Theresa May has denounced citizens of nowhere. She has been silent when the tabloids accused judges of being enemies of the people. She has used EU citizens as bargaining chips. She has been complicit in talk of saboteurs.
How dare she talk about the tone of bitterness and aggression in the public debate?0 -
I think because she has been overwhelmed and inadequate rather than actively condoning bitterness.AlastairMeeks said:Theresa May has denounced citizens of nowhere. She has been silent when the tabloids accused judges of being enemies of the people. She has used EU citizens as bargaining chips. She has been complicit in talk of saboteurs.
How dare she talk about the tone of bitterness and aggression in the public debate?
Her citizens of nowhere sounded fantastic in the drawing room at No. 10 - really inclusive and friendly. And tbf will we ever hear the end of the no such thing as society misquote.
I think she (Tezza) is well meaning, but hapless and hopelessly, hopelessly out of her depth.0 -
Richard, nice try, but you know that Theresa May knew full well what she was doing. The line was intended to be taken out of context, a wink to the Somewheres who now dominate the Conservative party that she was a Someone. The Anywheres got the point too.Richard_Nabavi said:
You keep repeating this. Have you actually read the speech in which she used the phrase?AlastairMeeks said:Theresa May has denounced citizens of nowhere.
we also value something else: the spirit of citizenship.
That spirit that means you respect the bonds and obligations that make our society work. That means a commitment to the men and women who live around you, who work for you, who buy the goods and services you sell.
That spirit that means recognising the social contract that says you train up local young people before you take on cheap labour from overseas.
That spirit that means you do as others do, and pay your fair share of tax.
But today, too many people in positions of power behave as though they have more in common with international elites than with the people down the road, the people they employ, the people they pass in the street.
But if you believe you’re a citizen of the world, you’re a citizen of nowhere. You don’t understand what the very word ‘citizenship’ means.
So if you’re a boss who earns a fortune but doesn’t look after your staff…
An international company that treats tax laws as an optional extra…
A household name that refuses to work with the authorities even to fight terrorism…
A director who takes out massive dividends while knowing that the company pension is about to go bust…
I’m putting you on warning. This can’t go on anymore.
A change has got to come. And this party – the Conservative Party – is going to make that change.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/05/theresa-mays-conference-speech-in-full/0 -
But a well paid one. Assuming he pays his bills.FrancisUrquhart said:
Being trumps lawyer must be an absolute fucking nightmare.TheScreamingEagles said:Lawyers for President Trump have advised him against sitting down for a wide-ranging interview with the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, according to four people briefed on the matter, raising the specter of a monthslong court battle over whether the president must answer questions under oath.
His lawyers are concerned that the president, who has a history of making false statements and contradicting himself, could be charged with lying to investigators. Their stance puts them at odds with Mr. Trump, who has said publicly and privately that he is eager to speak with Mr. Mueller as part of the investigation into possible ties between his associates and Russia’s election interference, and whether he obstructed justice.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/05/us/politics/trump-lawyers-special-counsel-interview.html0 -
Good point. I would argue though that it hasn't even become a trading chip, it has become more akin to a gambling chip. Many of those who have only recently been attracted to putting money into have done so because of chance to get rich quick.rcs1000 said:
It's worth pausing on that for a second. Bitcoin is the same price it was 10 weeks ago. If the price hadn't moved between November and now, would anyone be getting all excited?FrancisUrquhart said:The value of Bitcoin has fallen to below $6,000 - its lowest price since November 2017.
I hope all those late to the party that bought at $15k+ didn't put too much of their net worth into BTC.
Its absurd volatility: from $6,000 to $19,000 to $6,000 demonstrates the extent to which Bitcoin stopped being what it was meant to be (a cheap decentralised and largely anonymous payment network), and became a trading chip.0 -
Both leaders have been silent about matters they should have condemned. They have both shown appalling leadership when it matters. They have set the wrong tone from the top. They have both been content to benefit from the degraded, violent, abusive language and behaviour of others - whether out of conviction, convenience, not caring or fear - and have both been responsible for a decline in public discourse, with its baleful effects on the democratic process.stevef said:
And what has Jeremy Corbyn been silent about?Pulpstar said:
I'll put you down as undecided about herAlastairMeeks said:Theresa May has denounced citizens of nowhere. She has been silent when the tabloids accused judges of being enemies of the people. She has used EU citizens as bargaining chips. She has been complicit in talk of saboteurs.
How dare she talk about the tone of bitterness and aggression in the public debate?
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Is anyone actually up to the job? I can't think of anyone....but I can think of lot's of people who could be a lot worse in this moment.AlastairMeeks said:
She's better than some of the alternatives. I will also credit her with good powers of analysis and a genuine sense of duty. But she is nowhere near up to the job.Pulpstar said:
I'll put you down as undecided about herAlastairMeeks said:Theresa May has denounced citizens of nowhere. She has been silent when the tabloids accused judges of being enemies of the people. She has used EU citizens as bargaining chips. She has been complicit in talk of saboteurs.
How dare she talk about the tone of bitterness and aggression in the public debate?
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Given this passage, what she was implicitly saying about people who support EU membership was even worse.Richard_Nabavi said:
You keep repeating this. Have you actually read the speech in which she used the phrase?AlastairMeeks said:Theresa May has denounced citizens of nowhere.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/05/theresa-mays-conference-speech-in-full/
For the referendum was not just a vote to withdraw from the EU. It was about something broader – something that the European Union had come to represent.
It was about a sense – deep, profound and let’s face it often justified – that many people have today that the world works well for a privileged few, but not for them.
It was a vote not just to change Britain’s relationship with the European Union, but to call for a change in the way our country works – and the people for whom it works – forever.0 -
I don't have as much faith in Theresa May's ability to craft subtle messages as you evidently do. I think she's got a bit of a tin ear and didn't realise it would be taken out of context.AlastairMeeks said:
Richard, nice try, but you know that Theresa May knew full well what she was doing. The line was intended to be taken out of context, a wink to the Somewheres who now dominate the Conservative party that she was a Someone. The Anywheres got the point too.0 -
We need to ensure it is not set up the same way as the USA - or the UK for that matter where we have a leader who appears to lack spine and ability and seems to be utterly beholden to a small bunch of nutters in her own party.philiph said:
But how long until the USofE is headed up by a Trump like clone?Beverley_C said:.
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Beverley_C said:
Sadly, the situation merits the language.Cyclefree said:(Oh and apologies for the terrible language.)
I wonder the next stage in the progression is? SNAFU, FUBAR, .... BREXIT????
I have come to the conclusion that UK politicians are no longer fit for purpose, so it might actually be better for us to be governed by Brussels and push for the USoE.
I don't think Juncker or Berlusconi or that Austrian chap or Orban are improvements. At least I can kick the bastards out here.
And a good metaphorical kicking is what they all need ..........0 -
There is a bizarre thread running here - she purposely made a speech with the sole purpose for it to be taken out of context and twisted ?? Really ?AlastairMeeks said:
Richard, nice try, but you know that Theresa May knew full well what she was doing. The line was intended to be taken out of context, a wink to the Somewheres who now dominate the Conservative party that she was a Someone. The Anywheres got the point too.
Sounds like the time voters should have somehow known the EU and Cameron were lying when they said Turkey was in the process to join the EU.
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I would be wanting all the money upfront....OldKingCole said:
But a well paid one. Assuming he pays his bills.FrancisUrquhart said:
Being trumps lawyer must be an absolute fucking nightmare.TheScreamingEagles said:Lawyers for President Trump have advised him against sitting down for a wide-ranging interview with the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, according to four people briefed on the matter, raising the specter of a monthslong court battle over whether the president must answer questions under oath.
His lawyers are concerned that the president, who has a history of making false statements and contradicting himself, could be charged with lying to investigators. Their stance puts them at odds with Mr. Trump, who has said publicly and privately that he is eager to speak with Mr. Mueller as part of the investigation into possible ties between his associates and Russia’s election interference, and whether he obstructed justice.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/05/us/politics/trump-lawyers-special-counsel-interview.html0 -
I've never really got why this rankled with you so much Alastair. As I understood the original thesis "citizens of nowhere" were likely to be highly educated, intelligent, cosmopolitan and flexible in their outlook, willing to move to wherever the opportunities were greatest. Citizens of somewhere were likely to be parochial, less well educated, small c conservative in their outlook and poorer.AlastairMeeks said:Theresa May has denounced citizens of nowhere. She has been silent when the tabloids accused judges of being enemies of the people. She has used EU citizens as bargaining chips. She has been complicit in talk of saboteurs.
How dare she talk about the tone of bitterness and aggression in the public debate?
Why is being in the former grouping such an insult?0 -
More to the point, political leaders say harsh things, sometimes. Politics is an activity that generates strong passions.Richard_Nabavi said:
I don't have as much faith in Theresa May's ability to craft subtle messages as you evidently do. I think she's got a bit of a tin ear and didn't realise it would be taken out of context.AlastairMeeks said:
Richard, nice try, but you know that Theresa May knew full well what she was doing. The line was intended to be taken out of context, a wink to the Somewheres who now dominate the Conservative party that she was a Someone. The Anywheres got the point too.0 -
OK WE GET IT!rcs1000 said:
It's worth pausing on that for a second. Bitcoin is the same price it was 10 weeks ago. If the price hadn't moved between November and now, would anyone be getting all excited?FrancisUrquhart said:The value of Bitcoin has fallen to below $6,000 - its lowest price since November 2017.
I hope all those late to the party that bought at $15k+ didn't put too much of their net worth into BTC.
Its absurd volatility: from $6,000 to $19,000 to $6,000 demonstrates the extent to which Bitcoin stopped being what it was meant to be (a cheap decentralised and largely anonymous payment network), and became a trading chip.
You sold at the (recent) top!
No need to go on about it. 0 -
So you can see a timespan and an endgame?FrancisUrquhart said:
I would be wanting all the money upfront....OldKingCole said:
But a well paid one. Assuming he pays his bills.FrancisUrquhart said:
Being trumps lawyer must be an absolute fucking nightmare.TheScreamingEagles said:Lawyers for President Trump have advised him against sitting down for a wide-ranging interview with the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, according to four people briefed on the matter, raising the specter of a monthslong court battle over whether the president must answer questions under oath.
His lawyers are concerned that the president, who has a history of making false statements and contradicting himself, could be charged with lying to investigators. Their stance puts them at odds with Mr. Trump, who has said publicly and privately that he is eager to speak with Mr. Mueller as part of the investigation into possible ties between his associates and Russia’s election interference, and whether he obstructed justice.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/05/us/politics/trump-lawyers-special-counsel-interview.html0 -
Maybe. But she got the tone very wrong at the start of her premiership when it was so very important to get the tone right and reach out to those who were on the losing side. This was not like any other GE. It was different and the response should have been different to "nah, nah, we're the winners, suck it up losers".Sean_F said:
Winston Churchill, Aneurin Bevan, Manny Shinwell, Quentin Hogg, Denis Healey, Margaret Thatcher, Neil Kinnock, even Tony Blair all had hard things to say at times about their and their parties' opponents. May is mild by comparison.AlastairMeeks said:Theresa May has denounced citizens of nowhere. She has been silent when the tabloids accused judges of being enemies of the people. She has used EU citizens as bargaining chips. She has been complicit in talk of saboteurs.
How dare she talk about the tone of bitterness and aggression in the public debate?
I am going to blow my own trumpet and refer you to this - http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/12/15/to-get-the-tone-right-it-has-to-come-from-the-top/0 -
Unlike Cameron's mythical "world war three" speech, nobody had to put words in Theresa May's mouth.TGOHF said:
There is a bizarre thread running here - she purposely made a speech with the sole purpose for it to be taken out of context and twisted ?? Really ?AlastairMeeks said:
Richard, nice try, but you know that Theresa May knew full well what she was doing. The line was intended to be taken out of context, a wink to the Somewheres who now dominate the Conservative party that she was a Someone. The Anywheres got the point too.0 -
You are correct, and I should have been more specific.FrancisUrquhart said:
Good point. I would argue though that it hasn't even become a trading chip, it has become more akin to a gambling chip. Many of those who have only recently been attracted to putting money into have done so because of chance to get rich quick.rcs1000 said:
It's worth pausing on that for a second. Bitcoin is the same price it was 10 weeks ago. If the price hadn't moved between November and now, would anyone be getting all excited?FrancisUrquhart said:The value of Bitcoin has fallen to below $6,000 - its lowest price since November 2017.
I hope all those late to the party that bought at $15k+ didn't put too much of their net worth into BTC.
Its absurd volatility: from $6,000 to $19,000 to $6,000 demonstrates the extent to which Bitcoin stopped being what it was meant to be (a cheap decentralised and largely anonymous payment network), and became a trading chip.
I would like to use this opportunity to thank my daughter Julia. At Christmas 2011, she fell into the pool when we were in holiday. The lifeguards didn't seem to notice, and so I jumped into the water to rescue her.
Pulling her (unharmed) out, I realised that my phone had been in my pocket. And it was now unresponsive. On that phone were a few Bitcoins I'd bought for $3 a piece.
For six years, the phone sat in a drawer until - just before Christmas last year - I finally took it into a mobile phone repair shop. And they got the phone working, and I got the Bitcoins off. (And I sold them.)
Thank you four year old Julia: that stumble into the pool was a very profitable one. (If she had not fallen in, I would likely have sold the Bitcoins for $80, and declared myself a genius. So it was truly fortuitous.)0 -
Hope you bought her a decent present with your windfall.rcs1000 said:
You are correct, and I should have been more specific.FrancisUrquhart said:
Good point. I would argue though that it hasn't even become a trading chip, it has become more akin to a gambling chip. Many of those who have only recently been attracted to putting money into have done so because of chance to get rich quick.rcs1000 said:
It's worth pausing on that for a second. Bitcoin is the same price it was 10 weeks ago. If the price hadn't moved between November and now, would anyone be getting all excited?FrancisUrquhart said:The value of Bitcoin has fallen to below $6,000 - its lowest price since November 2017.
I hope all those late to the party that bought at $15k+ didn't put too much of their net worth into BTC.
Its absurd volatility: from $6,000 to $19,000 to $6,000 demonstrates the extent to which Bitcoin stopped being what it was meant to be (a cheap decentralised and largely anonymous payment network), and became a trading chip.
I would like to use this opportunity to thank my daughter Julia. At Christmas 2011, she fell into the pool when we were in holiday. The lifeguards didn't seem to notice, and so I jumped into the water to rescue her.
Pulling her (unharmed) out, I realised that my phone had been in my pocket. And it was now unresponsive. On that phone were a few Bitcoins I'd bought for $3 a piece.
For six years, the phone sat in a drawer until - just before Christmas last year - I finally took it into a mobile phone repair shop. And they got the phone working, and I got the Bitcoins off. (And I sold them.)
Thank you four year old Julia: that stumble into the pool was a very profitable one. (If she had not fallen in, I would likely have sold the Bitcoins for $80, and declared myself a genius. So it was truly fortuitous.)0 -
Perhaps a donation to her college fund is in order :-)rcs1000 said:
You are correct, and I should have been more specific.FrancisUrquhart said:
Good point. I would argue though that it hasn't even become a trading chip, it has become more akin to a gambling chip. Many of those who have only recently been attracted to putting money into have done so because of chance to get rich quick.rcs1000 said:
It's worth pausing on that for a second. Bitcoin is the same price it was 10 weeks ago. If the price hadn't moved between November and now, would anyone be getting all excited?FrancisUrquhart said:The value of Bitcoin has fallen to below $6,000 - its lowest price since November 2017.
I hope all those late to the party that bought at $15k+ didn't put too much of their net worth into BTC.
Its absurd volatility: from $6,000 to $19,000 to $6,000 demonstrates the extent to which Bitcoin stopped being what it was meant to be (a cheap decentralised and largely anonymous payment network), and became a trading chip.
I would like to use this opportunity to thank my daughter Julia. At Christmas 2011, she fell into the pool when we were in holiday. The lifeguards didn't seem to notice, and so I jumped into the water to rescue her.
Pulling her (unharmed) out, I realised that my phone had been in my pocket. And it was now unresponsive. On that phone were a few Bitcoins I'd bought for $3 a piece.
For six years, the phone sat in a drawer until - just before Christmas last year - I finally took it into a mobile phone repair shop. And they got the phone working, and I got the Bitcoins off. (And I sold them.)
Thank you four year old Julia: that stumble into the pool was a very profitable one. (If she had not fallen in, I would likely have sold the Bitcoins for $80, and declared myself a genius. So it was truly fortuitous.)0 -
Richard_Nabavi said:
I don't have as much faith in Theresa May's ability to craft subtle messages as you evidently do. I think she's got a bit of a tin ear and didn't realise it would be taken out of context.AlastairMeeks said:
Richard, nice try, but you know that Theresa May knew full well what she was doing. The line was intended to be taken out of context, a wink to the Somewheres who now dominate the Conservative party that she was a Someone. The Anywheres got the point too.
And none of the people who read it before it was delivered picked up on it...... If they are all that useless they should be nowhere near power.
For the love of God, the use of language is one of the key skills of a politician. She didn't become an MP yesterday. She knew how the use of language can define a party, however unfairly. They can be viewed as "nasty" for instance.
Who said that? Oh, Mrs May.
And now we're supposed to believe that she had no idea at all that what she said might possibly be misinterpreted. Come off it. Her only claim to fame before she became PM apart from her shoes was that "nasty party" speech.0 -
She got a whole day without beatings.DavidL said:
Hope you bought her a decent present with your windfall.rcs1000 said:
You are correct, and I should have been more specific.FrancisUrquhart said:
Good point. I would argue though that it hasn't even become a trading chip, it has become more akin to a gambling chip. Many of those who have only recently been attracted to putting money into have done so because of chance to get rich quick.rcs1000 said:
It's worth pausing on that for a second. Bitcoin is the same price it was 10 weeks ago. If the price hadn't moved between November and now, would anyone be getting all excited?FrancisUrquhart said:The value of Bitcoin has fallen to below $6,000 - its lowest price since November 2017.
I hope all those late to the party that bought at $15k+ didn't put too much of their net worth into BTC.
Its absurd volatility: from $6,000 to $19,000 to $6,000 demonstrates the extent to which Bitcoin stopped being what it was meant to be (a cheap decentralised and largely anonymous payment network), and became a trading chip.
I would like to use this opportunity to thank my daughter Julia. At Christmas 2011, she fell into the pool when we were in holiday. The lifeguards didn't seem to notice, and so I jumped into the water to rescue her.
Pulling her (unharmed) out, I realised that my phone had been in my pocket. And it was now unresponsive. On that phone were a few Bitcoins I'd bought for $3 a piece.
For six years, the phone sat in a drawer until - just before Christmas last year - I finally took it into a mobile phone repair shop. And they got the phone working, and I got the Bitcoins off. (And I sold them.)
Thank you four year old Julia: that stumble into the pool was a very profitable one. (If she had not fallen in, I would likely have sold the Bitcoins for $80, and declared myself a genius. So it was truly fortuitous.)0 -
More generally, I agree with Robert that it is really not obvious what Bitcoin is for anymore. It is no longer a mode of exchange in any useful sense; it is not a store of value; it cannot fulfil any of its original claimed functions. It's time it went the way of all things.0
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From the thread header
"The contributions in the Commons by John Spellar, Luciana Berger and Rachael Reeves,– none of them Corbynistas — put the lie to that."
No they don't. They just show what a bunch of opportunistic hypocrites they are.0 -
To use Denis Healey's expression, being criticised as a "citizen of nowhere" by Theresa May is like being savaged by a dead sheep.Cyclefree said:Richard_Nabavi said:
I don't have as much faith in Theresa May's ability to craft subtle messages as you evidently do. I think she's got a bit of a tin ear and didn't realise it would be taken out of context.AlastairMeeks said:
Richard, nice try, but you know that Theresa May knew full well what she was doing. The line was intended to be taken out of context, a wink to the Somewheres who now dominate the Conservative party that she was a Someone. The Anywheres got the point too.
And none of the people who read it before it was delivered picked up on it...... If they are all that useless they should be nowhere near power.
For the love of God, the use of language is one of the key skills of a politician. She didn't become an MP yesterday. She knew how the use of language can define a party, however unfairly. They can be viewed as "nasty" for instance.
Who said that? Oh, Mrs May.
And now we're supposed to believe that she had no idea at all that what she said might possibly be misinterpreted. Come off it. Her only claim to fame before she became PM apart from her shoes was that "nasty party" speech.
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A touch of caricature in there, but is it so far from reality ?Cyclefree said:For various reasons I have been listening to radio news programmes more than normal in the last few days. I can sum up what I have learnt, as follows:-
1. The Tories are an absolute fucking shambles. An absolute shower. Of shits, incompetents and Brexit-obsessed loons
2. Labour are an absolute fucking shambles: of extreme left ex-Militants with interesting views about some minorities, cowed MPs and a leadership largely silent on key issues.
3. The Lib Dems may well also be an absolute fucking shambles but since no-one has heard or seen them for months it is impossible to tell.
4. UKIP would also be an absolute shambles but is now in reality one middle-aged man fucking for Britain, or something.
5. Brexit is an absolute FUBAR and Britain is playing the role of the first Mrs Rochester in the attic, as far as the rest of Europe is concerned
Have I missed anything?
(Oh and apologies for the terrible language.)0 -
Like tulips!DavidL said:More generally, I agree with Robert that it is really not obvious what Bitcoin is for anymore. It is no longer a mode of exchange in any useful sense; it is not a store of value; it cannot fulfil any of its original claimed functions. It's time it went the way of all things.
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I must admit I find all this Theresa May shellacking a bit too much.
I don't particularly like her politics, she is on a sticky wicket on Brexit, she's not the most decisive, or inspirational, or thinking on your feet intuitive.....
but, and this is a huge but...she has miserable job leading that shower, she's not rash, or seemingly that vindictive, she looks reasonable, she dresses well, she's not ideological or an obvious loony, she's not openly corrupt, or vain or ignorant, or a narcissist, or a liar, or that bad tempered, or an obvious bully, or mean spirited....
I mean FFS we could have Boris Johnson, or some oaf like that Raab character, or Priti or Liam Fox, David Davis or just about any other Tory....so we count our blessings for small mercies I guess.....0 -
I hope you haven't posted that from California. Probably a crime even to suggest that in jest there.rcs1000 said:
She got a whole day without beatings.DavidL said:
Hope you bought her a decent present with your windfall.rcs1000 said:
You are correct, and I should have been more specific.FrancisUrquhart said:
Good point. I would argue though that it hasn't even become a trading chip, it has become more akin to a gambling chip. Many of those who have only recently been attracted to putting money into have done so because of chance to get rich quick.rcs1000 said:
It's worth pausing on that for a second. Bitcoin is the same price it was 10 weeks ago. If the price hadn't moved between November and now, would anyone be getting all excited?FrancisUrquhart said:The value of Bitcoin has fallen to below $6,000 - its lowest price since November 2017.
I hope all those late to the party that bought at $15k+ didn't put too much of their net worth into BTC.
Its absurd volatility: from $6,000 to $19,000 to $6,000 demonstrates the extent to which Bitcoin stopped being what it was meant to be (a cheap decentralised and largely anonymous payment network), and became a trading chip.
I would like to use this opportunity to thank my daughter Julia. At Christmas 2011, she fell into the pool when we were in holiday. The lifeguards didn't seem to notice, and so I jumped into the water to rescue her.
Pulling her (unharmed) out, I realised that my phone had been in my pocket. And it was now unresponsive. On that phone were a few Bitcoins I'd bought for $3 a piece.
For six years, the phone sat in a drawer until - just before Christmas last year - I finally took it into a mobile phone repair shop. And they got the phone working, and I got the Bitcoins off. (And I sold them.)
Thank you four year old Julia: that stumble into the pool was a very profitable one. (If she had not fallen in, I would likely have sold the Bitcoins for $80, and declared myself a genius. So it was truly fortuitous.)0 -
Interestingly, Bitcoin is about to evolve with the introduction of Lightning. Simply put, this has the potential to reduce the cost of a Bitcoin transaction from today's absurd levels (say $5-20) to less than a cent, and to speed up transaction times from hours to a second or two*.DavidL said:More generally, I agree with Robert that it is really not obvious what Bitcoin is for anymore. It is no longer a mode of exchange in any useful sense; it is not a store of value; it cannot fulfil any of its original claimed functions. It's time it went the way of all things.
So, it's possible that - at a much, much lower price (say $200) - Bitcoin could actually begin to fulfil some of its original promise as a payment network.
* If you are in the least bit techy, you should definitely read the Ars Technica article about Lightning.0 -
At least with tulips you have always got a (rather ordinary) flower. Who wants a second hand bit of computer code?OldKingCole said:
Like tulips!DavidL said:More generally, I agree with Robert that it is really not obvious what Bitcoin is for anymore. It is no longer a mode of exchange in any useful sense; it is not a store of value; it cannot fulfil any of its original claimed functions. It's time it went the way of all things.
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Actually that's a very good example of the same phenomenon. She's was making a very good and useful point with her 'nasty party' speech, but because she's got such a tin ear she managed to create a soundbite which was extremely damaging and was wonderful ammunition for political opponents. So I agree she's useless, but I don't agree that the 'citizens of nowhere' phrase was even remotely intended as a dog-whistle or to refer (as Alastair seems to think it does) to Remainers; it refers to what she was talking about in that passage.Cyclefree said:Richard_Nabavi said:
I don't have as much faith in Theresa May's ability to craft subtle messages as you evidently do. I think she's got a bit of a tin ear and didn't realise it would be taken out of context.AlastairMeeks said:
Richard, nice try, but you know that Theresa May knew full well what she was doing. The line was intended to be taken out of context, a wink to the Somewheres who now dominate the Conservative party that she was a Someone. The Anywheres got the point too.
And none of the people who read it before it was delivered picked up on it...... If they are all that useless they should be nowhere near power.
For the love of God, the use of language is one of the key skills of a politician. She didn't become an MP yesterday. She knew how the use of language can define a party, however unfairly. They can be viewed as "nasty" for instance.
Who said that? Oh, Mrs May.
And now we're supposed to believe that she had no idea at all that what she said might possibly be misinterpreted. Come off it. Her only claim to fame before she became PM apart from her shoes was that "nasty party" speech.0 -
You'll spoil her.rcs1000 said:
She got a whole day without beatings.DavidL said:
Hope you bought her a decent present with your windfall.rcs1000 said:
You are correct, and I should have been more specific.FrancisUrquhart said:
Good point. I would argue though that it hasn't even become a trading chip, it has become more akin to a gambling chip. Many of those who have only recently been attracted to putting money into have done so because of chance to get rich quick.rcs1000 said:
It's worth pausing on that for a second. Bitcoin is the same price it was 10 weeks ago. If the price hadn't moved between November and now, would anyone be getting all excited?FrancisUrquhart said:The value of Bitcoin has fallen to below $6,000 - its lowest price since November 2017.
I hope all those late to the party that bought at $15k+ didn't put too much of their net worth into BTC.
Its absurd volatility: from $6,000 to $19,000 to $6,000 demonstrates the extent to which Bitcoin stopped being what it was meant to be (a cheap decentralised and largely anonymous payment network), and became a trading chip.
I would like to use this opportunity to thank my daughter Julia. At Christmas 2011, she fell into the pool when we were in holiday. The lifeguards didn't seem to notice, and so I jumped into the water to rescue her.
Pulling her (unharmed) out, I realised that my phone had been in my pocket. And it was now unresponsive. On that phone were a few Bitcoins I'd bought for $3 a piece.
For six years, the phone sat in a drawer until - just before Christmas last year - I finally took it into a mobile phone repair shop. And they got the phone working, and I got the Bitcoins off. (And I sold them.)
Thank you four year old Julia: that stumble into the pool was a very profitable one. (If she had not fallen in, I would likely have sold the Bitcoins for $80, and declared myself a genius. So it was truly fortuitous.)0 -
It's hard to remember now, but Theresa May was regarded as the living embodiment of the spirit of the Brexit revolution. A latter-day Boudica who was more popular than Blair or Thatcher at their peak.Sean_F said:
To use Denis Healey's expression, being criticised as a "citizen of nowhere" by Theresa May is like being savaged by a dead sheep.Cyclefree said:Richard_Nabavi said:
I don't have as much faith in Theresa May's ability to craft subtle messages as you evidently do. I think she's got a bit of a tin ear and didn't realise it would be taken out of context.AlastairMeeks said:
Richard, nice try, but you know that Theresa May knew full well what she was doing. The line was intended to be taken out of context, a wink to the Somewheres who now dominate the Conservative party that she was a Someone. The Anywheres got the point too.
And none of the people who read it before it was delivered picked up on it...... If they are all that useless they should be nowhere near power.
For the love of God, the use of language is one of the key skills of a politician. She didn't become an MP yesterday. She knew how the use of language can define a party, however unfairly. They can be viewed as "nasty" for instance.
Who said that? Oh, Mrs May.
And now we're supposed to believe that she had no idea at all that what she said might possibly be misinterpreted. Come off it. Her only claim to fame before she became PM apart from her shoes was that "nasty party" speech.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/tories-with-huge-poll-lead-over-jeremy-corbyns-labour-poll-reveals-a3524136.html0 -
Acquitting her of being vindictive seems a tad generous. Also mean spirited. But she does try her best.tyson said:I must admit I find all this Theresa May shellacking a bit too much.
I don't particularly like her politics, she is on a sticky wicket on Brexit, she's not the most decisive, or inspirational, or thinking on your feet intuitive.....
but, and this is a huge but...she has miserable job leading that shower, she's not rash, or seemingly that vindictive, she looks reasonable, she dresses well, she's not ideological or an obvious loony, she's not openly corrupt, or vain or ignorant, or a narcissist, or a liar, or that bad tempered, or an obvious bully, or mean spirited....
I mean FFS we could have Boris Johnson, or some oaf like that Raab character, or Priti or Liam Fox, David Davis or just about any other Tory....so we count our blessings for small mercies I guess.....0 -
If its from Dunt 'a bit' is progress......Sean_F said:0 -
The funny thing about Bitcoin, which no-one seems to comment on, is that one of the supposed selling points is the finite supply, i.e. that there can only ever be 25 million created. Which is fine, except that there are already over 100 other crypto-scam currencies. If that's not enough for the mugs, I'm sure many more can be created. There is no rarity, and the supply is infinite.0
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The LibDems were on 13% in that poll! Oh how times change.williamglenn said:
It's hard to remember now, but Theresa May was regarded as the living embodiment of the spirit of the Brexit revolution. A latter-day Boudica who was more popular than Blair or Thatcher at their peak.Sean_F said:
To use Denis Healey's expression, being criticised as a "citizen of nowhere" by Theresa May is like being savaged by a dead sheep.Cyclefree said:Richard_Nabavi said:
I don't have as much faith in Theresa May's ability to craft subtle messages as you evidently do. I think she's got a bit of a tin ear and didn't realise it would be taken out of context.AlastairMeeks said:
Richard, nice try, but you know that Theresa May knew full well what she was doing. The line was intended to be taken out of context, a wink to the Somewheres who now dominate the Conservative party that she was a Someone. The Anywheres got the point too.
And none of the people who read it before it was delivered picked up on it...... If they are all that useless they should be nowhere near power.
For the love of God, the use of language is one of the key skills of a politician. She didn't become an MP yesterday. She knew how the use of language can define a party, however unfairly. They can be viewed as "nasty" for instance.
Who said that? Oh, Mrs May.
And now we're supposed to believe that she had no idea at all that what she said might possibly be misinterpreted. Come off it. Her only claim to fame before she became PM apart from her shoes was that "nasty party" speech.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/tories-with-huge-poll-lead-over-jeremy-corbyns-labour-poll-reveals-a3524136.html0 -
There are at lesst some of us who judged her on her record and knew she would fuck.it all up.williamglenn said:
It's hard to remember now, but Theresa May was regarded as the living embodiment of the spirit of the Brexit revolution. A latter-day Boudica who was more popular than Blair or Thatcher at their peak.Sean_F said:
To use Denis Healey's expression, being criticised as a "citizen of nowhere" by Theresa May is like being savaged by a dead sheep.Cyclefree said:Richard_Nabavi said:
I don't have as much faith in Theresa May's ability to craft subtle messages as you evidently do. I think she's got a bit of a tin ear and didn't realise it would be taken out of context.AlastairMeeks said:
Richard, nice try, but you know that Theresa May knew full well what she was doing. The line was intended to be taken out of context, a wink to the Somewheres who now dominate the Conservative party that she was a Someone. The Anywheres got the point too.
And none of the people who read it before it was delivered picked up on it...... If they are all that useless they should be nowhere near power.
For the love of God, the use of language is one of the key skills of a politician. She didn't become an MP yesterday. She knew how the use of language can define a party, however unfairly. They can be viewed as "nasty" for instance.
Who said that? Oh, Mrs May.
And now we're supposed to believe that she had no idea at all that what she said might possibly be misinterpreted. Come off it. Her only claim to fame before she became PM apart from her shoes was that "nasty party" speech.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/tories-with-huge-poll-lead-over-jeremy-corbyns-labour-poll-reveals-a3524136.html0 -
Cameron's actual world war three speech, you mean?williamglenn said:
Unlike Cameron's mythical "world war three" speech, nobody had to put words in Theresa May's mouth.TGOHF said:
There is a bizarre thread running here - she purposely made a speech with the sole purpose for it to be taken out of context and twisted ?? Really ?AlastairMeeks said:
Richard, nice try, but you know that Theresa May knew full well what she was doing. The line was intended to be taken out of context, a wink to the Somewheres who now dominate the Conservative party that she was a Someone. The Anywheres got the point too.0 -
What good does it do kicking any of ours out? There is an equal supply of a*seholes waiting to step in to the job.Cyclefree said:Beverley_C said:
Sadly, the situation merits the language.Cyclefree said:(Oh and apologies for the terrible language.)
I wonder the next stage in the progression is? SNAFU, FUBAR, .... BREXIT????
I have come to the conclusion that UK politicians are no longer fit for purpose, so it might actually be better for us to be governed by Brussels and push for the USoE.
I don't think Juncker or Berlusconi or that Austrian chap or Orban are improvements. At least I can kick the bastards out here.
And a good metaphorical kicking is what they all need ..........
This is why I no longer care.0 -
I don't think these are the problems. The problem is that to be a means of exchange people have to have some idea what they are buying or selling. Maybe what it really needs is a link to the dollar.rcs1000 said:
Interestingly, Bitcoin is about to evolve with the introduction of Lightning. Simply put, this has the potential to reduce the cost of a Bitcoin transaction from today's absurd levels (say $5-20) to less than a cent, and to speed up transaction times from hours to a second or two*.DavidL said:More generally, I agree with Robert that it is really not obvious what Bitcoin is for anymore. It is no longer a mode of exchange in any useful sense; it is not a store of value; it cannot fulfil any of its original claimed functions. It's time it went the way of all things.
So, it's possible that - at a much, much lower price (say $200) - Bitcoin could actually begin to fulfil some of its original promise as a payment network.
* If you are in the least bit techy, you should definitely read the Ars Technica article about Lightning.0 -
I missed that. What did he say?DecrepitJohnL said:
Cameron's actual world war three speech, you mean?williamglenn said:
Unlike Cameron's mythical "world war three" speech, nobody had to put words in Theresa May's mouth.TGOHF said:
There is a bizarre thread running here - she purposely made a speech with the sole purpose for it to be taken out of context and twisted ?? Really ?AlastairMeeks said:
Richard, nice try, but you know that Theresa May knew full well what she was doing. The line was intended to be taken out of context, a wink to the Somewheres who now dominate the Conservative party that she was a Someone. The Anywheres got the point too.0 -
If Bitcoin is used primarily as an efficient payment mechanism then purchases and sales become dominated by real economic transactions, rather than trading frenzy.DavidL said:
I don't think these are the problems. The problem is that to be a means of exchange people have to have some idea what they are buying or selling. Maybe what it really needs is a link to the dollar.rcs1000 said:
Interestingly, Bitcoin is about to evolve with the introduction of Lightning. Simply put, this has the potential to reduce the cost of a Bitcoin transaction from today's absurd levels (say $5-20) to less than a cent, and to speed up transaction times from hours to a second or two*.DavidL said:More generally, I agree with Robert that it is really not obvious what Bitcoin is for anymore. It is no longer a mode of exchange in any useful sense; it is not a store of value; it cannot fulfil any of its original claimed functions. It's time it went the way of all things.
So, it's possible that - at a much, much lower price (say $200) - Bitcoin could actually begin to fulfil some of its original promise as a payment network.
* If you are in the least bit techy, you should definitely read the Ars Technica article about Lightning.
Also: so many people will have lost their shirts on Bitcoin by the time that falls under $300, that no one will touch it as a speculation.0 -
We have a weak government, but we're certainly not living in the worst of times.Beverley_C said:
What good does it do kicking any of ours out? There is an equal supply of a*seholes waiting to step in to the job.Cyclefree said:Beverley_C said:
Sadly, the situation merits the language.Cyclefree said:(Oh and apologies for the terrible language.)
I wonder the next stage in the progression is? SNAFU, FUBAR, .... BREXIT????
I have come to the conclusion that UK politicians are no longer fit for purpose, so it might actually be better for us to be governed by Brussels and push for the USoE.
I don't think Juncker or Berlusconi or that Austrian chap or Orban are improvements. At least I can kick the bastards out here.
And a good metaphorical kicking is what they all need ..........
This is why I no longer care.
0 -
Mr. 1000, not au fait with such things, but sounds a little similar to the vicious cycle of silver price declines that happened when some chap or other (brothers?) stockpiled a lot and the price went down, which forced them to sell some off, further depressing the price. Eventually it reached the 'right' level.0
-
Maybe she's a little bit vindictive and small minded...she is a Tory and a parochial one at that,DavidL said:
Acquitting her of being vindictive seems a tad generous. Also mean spirited. But she does try her best.tyson said:I must admit I find all this Theresa May shellacking a bit too much.
I don't particularly like her politics, she is on a sticky wicket on Brexit, she's not the most decisive, or inspirational, or thinking on your feet intuitive.....
but, and this is a huge but...she has miserable job leading that shower, she's not rash, or seemingly that vindictive, she looks reasonable, she dresses well, she's not ideological or an obvious loony, she's not openly corrupt, or vain or ignorant, or a narcissist, or a liar, or that bad tempered, or an obvious bully, or mean spirited....
I mean FFS we could have Boris Johnson, or some oaf like that Raab character, or Priti or Liam Fox, David Davis or just about any other Tory....so we count our blessings for small mercies I guess.....
but Theresa May passes a key test too..as someone who had a relatively successful career before I bailed out....I look at T May and think yes, she is doing a much better job than I could ever do. And that is a bar to jump over. I look at Trump and think...hmmm, I could really do a better job than that fucking idiot. I mean I wouldn't resort to playground insults to dealing with North Korea for a start....
0 -
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/brexit-could-trigger-world-war-7928607Richard_Nabavi said:
I missed that. What did he say?DecrepitJohnL said:
Cameron's actual world war three speech, you mean?williamglenn said:
Unlike Cameron's mythical "world war three" speech, nobody had to put words in Theresa May's mouth.TGOHF said:
There is a bizarre thread running here - she purposely made a speech with the sole purpose for it to be taken out of context and twisted ?? Really ?AlastairMeeks said:
Richard, nice try, but you know that Theresa May knew full well what she was doing. The line was intended to be taken out of context, a wink to the Somewheres who now dominate the Conservative party that she was a Someone. The Anywheres got the point too.
"Introduced by Labour ex-Foreign Secretary David Miliband at the British Museum in London, he said: "Can we be so sure peace and stability on our continent are assured beyond any shadow of doubt? Is that a risk worth taking?
"I would never be so rash to make that assumption.""
"And Mr Cameron's spokesman admitted the government has made no contingency plans for a Leave vote in the June 23 referendum - despite the warning of war."
“When terrorists are planning to kill and maim people on British streets, the closest possible security cooperation is far more important than sovereignty in its purest theoretical form," he said.
I suspect he regrets the language used now.
0 -
Anyway, I am off to spend lots0
-
It implies that they somehow don't care about their country at all or as much as the other group. And that is not fair. Some may not - the Philip Greens of this world, for instance, people who view a country as somewhere to do business but not somewhere they pay taxes - but being cosmopolitan does not make you someone who does not care about the country they live in.DavidL said:
I've never really got why this rankled with you so much Alastair. As I understood the original thesis "citizens of nowhere" were likely to be highly educated, intelligent, cosmopolitan and flexible in their outlook, willing to move to wherever the opportunities were greatest. Citizens of somewhere were likely to be parochial, less well educated, small c conservative in their outlook and poorer.AlastairMeeks said:Theresa May has denounced citizens of nowhere. She has been silent when the tabloids accused judges of being enemies of the people. She has used EU citizens as bargaining chips. She has been complicit in talk of saboteurs.
How dare she talk about the tone of bitterness and aggression in the public debate?
Why is being in the former grouping such an insult?
And there is also an unpleasant sub-text to the rootless cosmopolitan meme, which I'm sure I don't need to spell out to you.0 -
From memory, he listed numerous wars where we'd had to rescue Europe, culminating in the first and second world wars, and saying that if we left the EU it would happen again. It is true he did not use the words "world war 3" but you would need to ignore all of his other words not to see what he was saying. But in case anyone nodded off, he'd helpfully briefed the papers which is why they all splashed it as Cameron's WW3 speech.Richard_Nabavi said:
I missed that. What did he say?DecrepitJohnL said:
Cameron's actual world war three speech, you mean?williamglenn said:
Unlike Cameron's mythical "world war three" speech, nobody had to put words in Theresa May's mouth.TGOHF said:
There is a bizarre thread running here - she purposely made a speech with the sole purpose for it to be taken out of context and twisted ?? Really ?AlastairMeeks said:
Richard, nice try, but you know that Theresa May knew full well what she was doing. The line was intended to be taken out of context, a wink to the Somewheres who now dominate the Conservative party that she was a Someone. The Anywheres got the point too.0 -
Why should he regret it? He made the perfectly reasonable point, which in all of continental Europe is so widely accepted that it's a platitude, that the EU has contributed to the peace and stability of Europe. He made no mention of World War III. Only the looniest of loons could object to what he said, although it's true that it wasn't a very strong argument on the narrow question of whether the UK should remain in the EU.TGOHF said:
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/brexit-could-trigger-world-war-7928607Richard_Nabavi said:
I missed that. What did he say?DecrepitJohnL said:
Cameron's actual world war three speech, you mean?williamglenn said:
Unlike Cameron's mythical "world war three" speech, nobody had to put words in Theresa May's mouth.TGOHF said:
There is a bizarre thread running here - she purposely made a speech with the sole purpose for it to be taken out of context and twisted ?? Really ?AlastairMeeks said:
Richard, nice try, but you know that Theresa May knew full well what she was doing. The line was intended to be taken out of context, a wink to the Somewheres who now dominate the Conservative party that she was a Someone. The Anywheres got the point too.
"Introduced by Labour ex-Foreign Secretary David Miliband at the British Museum in London, he said: "Can we be so sure peace and stability on our continent are assured beyond any shadow of doubt? Is that a risk worth taking?
"I would never be so rash to make that assumption.""
"And Mr Cameron's spokesman admitted the government has made no contingency plans for a Leave vote in the June 23 referendum - despite the warning of war."
“When terrorists are planning to kill and maim people on British streets, the closest possible security cooperation is far more important than sovereignty in its purest theoretical form," he said.
I suspect he regrets the language used now.0 -
Exhibit 1: "there is also an unpleasant sub-text to the rootless cosmopolitan meme"Cyclefree said:
It implies that they somehow don't care about their country at all or as much as the other group. And that is not fair. Some may not - the Philip Greens of this world, for instance, people who view a country as somewhere to do business but not somewhere they pay taxes - but being cosmopolitan does not make you someone who does not care about the country they live in.DavidL said:
I've never really got why this rankled with you so much Alastair. As I understood the original thesis "citizens of nowhere" were likely to be highly educated, intelligent, cosmopolitan and flexible in their outlook, willing to move to wherever the opportunities were greatest. Citizens of somewhere were likely to be parochial, less well educated, small c conservative in their outlook and poorer.AlastairMeeks said:Theresa May has denounced citizens of nowhere. She has been silent when the tabloids accused judges of being enemies of the people. She has used EU citizens as bargaining chips. She has been complicit in talk of saboteurs.
How dare she talk about the tone of bitterness and aggression in the public debate?
Why is being in the former grouping such an insult?
And there is also an unpleasant sub-text to the rootless cosmopolitan meme, which I'm sure I don't need to spell out to you.
Exhibit 2: "Some may not - the Philip Greens of this world.."0 -
Nelson Bunker Hunt?Morris_Dancer said:Mr. 1000, not au fait with such things, but sounds a little similar to the vicious cycle of silver price declines that happened when some chap or other (brothers?) stockpiled a lot and the price went down, which forced them to sell some off, further depressing the price. Eventually it reached the 'right' level.
0 -
Philip Green of BHS or Philip Green of Carillion? An unfortunate coincidence for both men, perhaps.TOPPING said:
Exhibit 1: "there is also an unpleasant sub-text to the rootless cosmopolitan meme"Cyclefree said:
It implies that they somehow don't care about their country at all or as much as the other group. And that is not fair. Some may not - the Philip Greens of this world, for instance, people who view a country as somewhere to do business but not somewhere they pay taxes - but being cosmopolitan does not make you someone who does not care about the country they live in.DavidL said:
I've never really got why this rankled with you so much Alastair. As I understood the original thesis "citizens of nowhere" were likely to be highly educated, intelligent, cosmopolitan and flexible in their outlook, willing to move to wherever the opportunities were greatest. Citizens of somewhere were likely to be parochial, less well educated, small c conservative in their outlook and poorer.AlastairMeeks said:Theresa May has denounced citizens of nowhere. She has been silent when the tabloids accused judges of being enemies of the people. She has used EU citizens as bargaining chips. She has been complicit in talk of saboteurs.
How dare she talk about the tone of bitterness and aggression in the public debate?
Why is being in the former grouping such an insult?
And there is also an unpleasant sub-text to the rootless cosmopolitan meme, which I'm sure I don't need to spell out to you.
Exhibit 2: "Some may not - the Philip Greens of this world.."0 -
Indeed - it was scaremongering nonsense.Richard_Nabavi said:
although it's true that it wasn't a very strong argument on the narrow question of whether the UK should remain in the EU.TGOHF said:
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/brexit-could-trigger-world-war-7928607Richard_Nabavi said:
I missed that. What did he say?DecrepitJohnL said:
Cameron's actual world war three speech, you mean?williamglenn said:
Unlike Cameron's mythical "world war three" speech, nobody had to put words in Theresa May's mouth.TGOHF said:
There is a bizarre thread running here - she purposely made a speech with the sole purpose for it to be taken out of context and twisted ?? Really ?AlastairMeeks said:
Richard, nice try, but you know that Theresa May knew full well what she was doing. The line was intended to be taken out of context, a wink to the Somewheres who now dominate the Conservative party that she was a Someone. The Anywheres got the point too.
"Introduced by Labour ex-Foreign Secretary David Miliband at the British Museum in London, he said: "Can we be so sure peace and stability on our continent are assured beyond any shadow of doubt? Is that a risk worth taking?
"I would never be so rash to make that assumption.""
"And Mr Cameron's spokesman admitted the government has made no contingency plans for a Leave vote in the June 23 referendum - despite the warning of war."
“When terrorists are planning to kill and maim people on British streets, the closest possible security cooperation is far more important than sovereignty in its purest theoretical form," he said.
I suspect he regrets the language used now.
No wonder he lost to a bus.0 -
Fair point.TOPPING said:
Exhibit 1: "there is also an unpleasant sub-text to the rootless cosmopolitan meme"Cyclefree said:
It implies that they somehow don't care about their country at all or as much as the other group. And that is not fair. Some may not - the Philip Greens of this world, for instance, people who view a country as somewhere to do business but not somewhere they pay taxes - but being cosmopolitan does not make you someone who does not care about the country they live in.DavidL said:
I've never really got why this rankled with you so much Alastair. As I understood the original thesis "citizens of nowhere" were likely to be highly educated, intelligent, cosmopolitan and flexible in their outlook, willing to move to wherever the opportunities were greatest. Citizens of somewhere were likely to be parochial, less well educated, small c conservative in their outlook and poorer.AlastairMeeks said:Theresa May has denounced citizens of nowhere. She has been silent when the tabloids accused judges of being enemies of the people. She has used EU citizens as bargaining chips. She has been complicit in talk of saboteurs.
How dare she talk about the tone of bitterness and aggression in the public debate?
Why is being in the former grouping such an insult?
And there is also an unpleasant sub-text to the rootless cosmopolitan meme, which I'm sure I don't need to spell out to you.
Exhibit 2: "Some may not - the Philip Greens of this world.."
I was thinking of these phrases in the speech:-
"So if you’re a boss who earns a fortune but doesn’t look after your staff…
A director who takes out massive dividends while knowing that the company pension is about to go bust…"
which could apply to Mr Green or the directors of Carillion, for instance.
And being Jewish does not exempt you from criticism.
Her speech was designed to appeal to Brexit supporters in the hall. It was a short-term tactic. It may have worked in making her very popular. But as a strategy it was a bad mistake.0 -
Or Philip Green of TCI?DecrepitJohnL said:
Philip Green of BHS or Philip Green of Carillion? An unfortunate coincidence for both men, perhaps.TOPPING said:
Exhibit 1: "there is also an unpleasant sub-text to the rootless cosmopolitan meme"Cyclefree said:
It implies that they somehow don't care about their country at all or as much as the other group. And that is not fair. Some may not - the Philip Greens of this world, for instance, people who view a country as somewhere to do business but not somewhere they pay taxes - but being cosmopolitan does not make you someone who does not care about the country they live in.DavidL said:
I've never really got why this rankled with you so much Alastair. As I understood the original thesis "citizens of nowhere" were likely to be highly educated, intelligent, cosmopolitan and flexible in their outlook, willing to move to wherever the opportunities were greatest. Citizens of somewhere were likely to be parochial, less well educated, small c conservative in their outlook and poorer.AlastairMeeks said:Theresa May has denounced citizens of nowhere. She has been silent when the tabloids accused judges of being enemies of the people. She has used EU citizens as bargaining chips. She has been complicit in talk of saboteurs.
How dare she talk about the tone of bitterness and aggression in the public debate?
Why is being in the former grouping such an insult?
And there is also an unpleasant sub-text to the rootless cosmopolitan meme, which I'm sure I don't need to spell out to you.
Exhibit 2: "Some may not - the Philip Greens of this world.."0 -
I don't see it as unpleasant as the idea that those with a strong sense of place and belonging are parochial and ignorant frankly. It struck me as quite an interesting tool which reflected the way that many chose to vote on a range of things, not just Brexit. And there is a difference between caring for your country and being obsessed about whether the new housing estate is going to be built on the end of the village and "swamp" the local school.Cyclefree said:
It implies that they somehow don't care about their country at all or as much as the other group. And that is not fair. Some may not - the Philip Greens of this world, for instance, people who view a country as somewhere to do business but not somewhere they pay taxes - but being cosmopolitan does not make you someone who does not care about the country they live in.DavidL said:
I've never really got why this rankled with you so much Alastair. As I understood the original thesis "citizens of nowhere" were likely to be highly educated, intelligent, cosmopolitan and flexible in their outlook, willing to move to wherever the opportunities were greatest. Citizens of somewhere were likely to be parochial, less well educated, small c conservative in their outlook and poorer.AlastairMeeks said:Theresa May has denounced citizens of nowhere. She has been silent when the tabloids accused judges of being enemies of the people. She has used EU citizens as bargaining chips. She has been complicit in talk of saboteurs.
How dare she talk about the tone of bitterness and aggression in the public debate?
Why is being in the former grouping such an insult?
And there is also an unpleasant sub-text to the rootless cosmopolitan meme, which I'm sure I don't need to spell out to you.0 -
Or it was an attempt to make the positive case for the EU, which unfortunately got torpedoed by the fact that the briefing was hamfisted. From Tim Shipman's 'All Out War' (page 239):TGOHF said:Indeed - it was scaremongering nonsense.
One of those involved in creating the speech said 'It was a briefing not a speech problem'. We never said "World War Three". I think the press totally distorted it.'0 -
Deed poll is available.rcs1000 said:
Or Philip Green of TCI?DecrepitJohnL said:
Philip Green of BHS or Philip Green of Carillion? An unfortunate coincidence for both men, perhaps.TOPPING said:
Exhibit 1: "there is also an unpleasant sub-text to the rootless cosmopolitan meme"Cyclefree said:
It implies that they somehow don't care about their country at all or as much as the other group. And that is not fair. Some may not - the Philip Greens of this world, for instance, people who view a country as somewhere to do business but not somewhere they pay taxes - but being cosmopolitan does not make you someone who does not care about the country they live in.DavidL said:
I've never really got why this rankled with you so much Alastair. As I understood the original thesis "citizens of nowhere" were likely to be highly educated, intelligent, cosmopolitan and flexible in their outlook, willing to move to wherever the opportunities were greatest. Citizens of somewhere were likely to be parochial, less well educated, small c conservative in their outlook and poorer.AlastairMeeks said:Theresa May has denounced citizens of nowhere. She has been silent when the tabloids accused judges of being enemies of the people. She has used EU citizens as bargaining chips. She has been complicit in talk of saboteurs.
How dare she talk about the tone of bitterness and aggression in the public debate?
Why is being in the former grouping such an insult?
And there is also an unpleasant sub-text to the rootless cosmopolitan meme, which I'm sure I don't need to spell out to you.
Exhibit 2: "Some may not - the Philip Greens of this world.."
0 -
Yes I quite like her with no majority.She would have been insufferable with a 100+ one.The last election was the perfect result.Just shows you that in general elections the UK public as a whole usually get the correct result.God knows how.williamglenn said:
It's hard to remember now, but Theresa May was regarded as the living embodiment of the spirit of the Brexit revolution. A latter-day Boudica who was more popular than Blair or Thatcher at their peak.Sean_F said:
To use Denis Healey's expression, being criticised as a "citizen of nowhere" by Theresa May is like being savaged by a dead sheep.Cyclefree said:Richard_Nabavi said:
I don't have as much faith in Theresa May's ability to craft subtle messages as you evidently do. I think she's got a bit of a tin ear and didn't realise it would be taken out of context.AlastairMeeks said:
Richard, nice try, but you know that Theresa May knew full well what she was doing. The line was intended to be taken out of context, a wink to the Somewheres who now dominate the Conservative party that she was a Someone. The Anywheres got the point too.
And none of the people who read it before it was delivered picked up on it...... If they are all that useless they should be nowhere near power.
For the love of God, the use of language is one of the key skills of a politician. She didn't become an MP yesterday. She knew how the use of language can define a party, however unfairly. They can be viewed as "nasty" for instance.
Who said that? Oh, Mrs May.
And now we're supposed to believe that she had no idea at all that what she said might possibly be misinterpreted. Come off it. Her only claim to fame before she became PM apart from her shoes was that "nasty party" speech.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/tories-with-huge-poll-lead-over-jeremy-corbyns-labour-poll-reveals-a3524136.html0 -
But it is a step further than that to say one is a citizen of the world. That is not just being cosmopolitan. I am sure that I am just as cosmopolitan as you if judged by how far i have travelled, the languages I speak and my view if the people's of the world. But to go further than that and claim one is a citizen of the world is to make the implicit claim.that one no longer regards oneself as a citizen of the country of their birth. On that basis May was absolutely right to regard such people as having chosen to turn their backs on their country.Cyclefree said:
It implies that they somehow don't care about their country at all or as much as the other group. And that is not fair. Some may not - the Philip Greens of this world, for instance, people who view a country as somewhere to do business but not somewhere they pay taxes - but being cosmopolitan does not make you someone who does not care about the country they live in.DavidL said:
I've never really got why this rankled with you so much Alastair. As I understood the original thesis "citizens of nowhere" were likely to be highly educated, intelligent, cosmopolitan and flexible in their outlook, willing to move to wherever the opportunities were greatest. Citizens of somewhere were likely to be parochial, less well educated, small c conservative in their outlook and poorer.AlastairMeeks said:Theresa May has denounced citizens of nowhere. She has been silent when the tabloids accused judges of being enemies of the people. She has used EU citizens as bargaining chips. She has been complicit in talk of saboteurs.
How dare she talk about the tone of bitterness and aggression in the public debate?
Why is being in the former grouping such an insult?
And there is also an unpleasant sub-text to the rootless cosmopolitan meme, which I'm sure I don't need to spell out to you.0 -
Weirdly I said exactly the same in a conversation at lunch today. I always thought the wisdom of crowds was tosh but we have an exhibit for the defence.Yorkcity said:
Yes I quite like her with no majority.She would have been insufferable with a 100+ one.The last election was the perfect result.Just shows you that in general elections the UK public as a whole usually get the correct result.God knows how.williamglenn said:
It's hard to remember now, but Theresa May was regarded as the living embodiment of the spirit of the Brexit revolution. A latter-day Boudica who was more popular than Blair or Thatcher at their peak.Sean_F said:
To use Denis Healey's expression, being criticised as a "citizen of nowhere" by Theresa May is like being savaged by a dead sheep.Cyclefree said:Richard_Nabavi said:
I don't have as much faith in Theresa May's ability to craft subtle messages as you evidently do. I think she's got a bit of a tin ear and didn't realise it would be taken out of context.AlastairMeeks said:
Richard, nice try, but you know that Theresa May knew full well what she was doing. The line was intended to be taken out of context, a wink to the Somewheres who now dominate the Conservative party that she was a Someone. The Anywheres got the point too.
And none of the people who read it before it was delivered picked up on it...... If they are all that useless they should be nowhere near power.
For the love of God, the use of language is one of the key skills of a politician. She didn't become an MP yesterday. She knew how the use of language can define a party, however unfairly. They can be viewed as "nasty" for instance.
Who said that? Oh, Mrs May.
And now we're supposed to believe that she had no idea at all that what she said might possibly be misinterpreted. Come off it. Her only claim to fame before she became PM apart from her shoes was that "nasty party" speech.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/tories-with-huge-poll-lead-over-jeremy-corbyns-labour-poll-reveals-a3524136.html0 -
In fairness making a positive case for the EU is seriously difficult.TGOHF said:
Indeed - it was scaremongering nonsense.Richard_Nabavi said:
although it's true that it wasn't a very strong argument on the narrow question of whether the UK should remain in the EU.TGOHF said:
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/brexit-could-trigger-world-war-7928607Richard_Nabavi said:
I missed that. What did he say?DecrepitJohnL said:
Cameron's actual world war three speech, you mean?williamglenn said:
Unlike Cameron's mythical "world war three" speech, nobody had to put words in Theresa May's mouth.TGOHF said:
There is a bizarre thread running here - she purposely made a speech with the sole purpose for it to be taken out of context and twisted ?? Really ?AlastairMeeks said:
Richard, nice try, but you know that Theresa May knew full well what she was doing. The line was intended to be taken out of context, a wink to the Somewheres who now dominate the Conservative party that she was a Someone. The Anywheres got the point too.
"Introduced by Labour ex-Foreign Secretary David Miliband at the British Museum in London, he said: "Can we be so sure peace and stability on our continent are assured beyond any shadow of doubt? Is that a risk worth taking?
"I would never be so rash to make that assumption.""
"And Mr Cameron's spokesman admitted the government has made no contingency plans for a Leave vote in the June 23 referendum - despite the warning of war."
“When terrorists are planning to kill and maim people on British streets, the closest possible security cooperation is far more important than sovereignty in its purest theoretical form," he said.
I suspect he regrets the language used now.
No wonder he lost to a bus.0 -
I'd agree with that interpretation. I barely posted on Twitter for about 18 months after the referendum. The important things in my life over the last two years have been ending my HT, getting married and losing our beloved Staffie India to cancer.Pulpstar said:
People tend to be quieter when things are going their way.williamglenn said:Fascinating analysis of the sea change in the social media landscape since the referendum.
https://twitter.com/cronycle/status/960863700633772032
On my return to social media I see that there's still much sturm und drang about Brexit, but what is there left to say that's in anyway effectual? It's down to HMG to implement the process, and I don't expect to have an opportunity to deliver a verdict on that until 2022.0 -
Fundamentally, the referendum created - or perhaps revealed - so many divisions that the leader dealing with it needed a level of emotional intelligence to help heal those divisions and find a way forward that Mrs May, for all her sense of duty and hard work and powers of analysis, does not have.DavidL said:
I don't see it as unpleasant as the idea that those with a strong sense of place and belonging are parochial and ignorant frankly. It struck me as quite an interesting tool which reflected the way that many chose to vote on a range of things, not just Brexit. And there is a difference between caring for your country and being obsessed about whether the new housing estate is going to be built on the end of the village and "swamp" the local school.Cyclefree said:
It implies that they somehow don't care about their country at all or as much as the other group. And that is not fair. Some may not - the Philip Greens of this world, for instance, people who view a country as somewhere to do business but not somewhere they pay taxes - but being cosmopolitan does not make you someone who does not care about the country they live in.DavidL said:
I've never really got why this rankled with you so much Alastair. As I understood the original thesis "citizens of nowhere" were likely to be highly educated, intelligent, cosmopolitan and flexible in their outlook, willing to move to wherever the opportunities were greatest. Citizens of somewhere were likely to be parochial, less well educated, small c conservative in their outlook and poorer.AlastairMeeks said:Theresa May has denounced citizens of nowhere. She has been silent when the tabloids accused judges of being enemies of the people. She has used EU citizens as bargaining chips. She has been complicit in talk of saboteurs.
How dare she talk about the tone of bitterness and aggression in the public debate?
Why is being in the former grouping such an insult?
And there is also an unpleasant sub-text to the rootless cosmopolitan meme, which I'm sure I don't need to spell out to you.
0 -
eek said:
Colin Crouch is 100% right in his comment - some companies are just good at knowing how to win a tender.
My first boss told me a good idea implemented badly created more problems than a bad idea executed badly. This is truly the case with government outsourcing and why both parties are both right in what they say and wrong in what they do.
I will give an example of how a tender goes badly wrong. NHS decides to buy delivery packs for a large group of hospitals to reduce costs. To get a better price they go for a single source and to merge the contract with eye packs and surgical packs. By doing this they cut out 80% of suppliers who are unable to meet the volume of packs. The tender is price driven so the winner is a large trading company that takes a punt. As the price is so low the trading company puts it out to global tender and ends up buying rubbish mostly from Asia. The product quality is poor so doctors start throwing them away and opening new ones. Complaints multiple. The tender committee go back to the supplier who offers them a better product at a higher price. The tender committee accept not to lose face. 2 years later the tender comes back out but most of the suppliers have moved on to do something else. Little interest so existing supplier gets follow on award.
NHS left buying from now highly profitable trading company who knows nothing about the product and is just a middleman who is good at playing tenders. This tender was issued by health service run by Labour administration.
In the UK the best buyers are not the NHS hospitals but the English GPs where the doctor is allowed to buy from anyone and if the price or quality is wrong he moves.
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That I cannot disagree with.Cyclefree said:
Fundamentally, the referendum created - or perhaps revealed - so many divisions that the leader dealing with it needed a level of emotional intelligence to help heal those divisions and find a way forward that Mrs May, for all her sense of duty and hard work and powers of analysis, does not have.DavidL said:
I don't see it as unpleasant as the idea that those with a strong sense of place and belonging are parochial and ignorant frankly. It struck me as quite an interesting tool which reflected the way that many chose to vote on a range of things, not just Brexit. And there is a difference between caring for your country and being obsessed about whether the new housing estate is going to be built on the end of the village and "swamp" the local school.Cyclefree said:
It implies that they somehow don't care about their country at all or as much as the other group. And that is not fair. Some may not - the Philip Greens of this world, for instance, people who view a country as somewhere to do business but not somewhere they pay taxes - but being cosmopolitan does not make you someone who does not care about the country they live in.DavidL said:
I've never really got why this rankled with you so much Alastair. As I understood the original thesis "citizens of nowhere" were likely to be highly educated, intelligent, cosmopolitan and flexible in their outlook, willing to move to wherever the opportunities were greatest. Citizens of somewhere were likely to be parochial, less well educated, small c conservative in their outlook and poorer.AlastairMeeks said:Theresa May has denounced citizens of nowhere. She has been silent when the tabloids accused judges of being enemies of the people. She has used EU citizens as bargaining chips. She has been complicit in talk of saboteurs.
How dare she talk about the tone of bitterness and aggression in the public debate?
Why is being in the former grouping such an insult?
And there is also an unpleasant sub-text to the rootless cosmopolitan meme, which I'm sure I don't need to spell out to you.0 -
Agree, but I don't think there are any leaders around at the moment who would have those qualities.Cyclefree said:
Fundamentally, the referendum created - or perhaps revealed - so many divisions that the leader dealing with it needed a level of emotional intelligence to help heal those divisions and find a way forward that Mrs May, for all her sense of duty and hard work and powers of analysis, does not have.DavidL said:
I don't see it as unpleasant as the idea that those with a strong sense of place and belonging are parochial and ignorant frankly. It struck me as quite an interesting tool which reflected the way that many chose to vote on a range of things, not just Brexit. And there is a difference between caring for your country and being obsessed about whether the new housing estate is going to be built on the end of the village and "swamp" the local school.Cyclefree said:
It implies that they somehow don't care about their country at all or as much as the other group. And that is not fair. Some may not - the Philip Greens of this world, for instance, people who view a country as somewhere to do business but not somewhere they pay taxes - but being cosmopolitan does not make you someone who does not care about the country they live in.DavidL said:
I've never really got why this rankled with you so much Alastair. As I understood the original thesis "citizens of nowhere" were likely to be highly educated, intelligent, cosmopolitan and flexible in their outlook, willing to move to wherever the opportunities were greatest. Citizens of somewhere were likely to be parochial, less well educated, small c conservative in their outlook and poorer.AlastairMeeks said:Theresa May has denounced citizens of nowhere. She has been silent when the tabloids accused judges of being enemies of the people. She has used EU citizens as bargaining chips. She has been complicit in talk of saboteurs.
How dare she talk about the tone of bitterness and aggression in the public debate?
Why is being in the former grouping such an insult?
And there is also an unpleasant sub-text to the rootless cosmopolitan meme, which I'm sure I don't need to spell out to you.0 -
It is odd though. Some of those in favour of Brexit want Britain to be open to the world not just stuck with the EU, the former being seen as a good thing.Richard_Tyndall said:
But it is a step further than that to say one is a citizen of the world. That is not just being cosmopolitan. I am sure that I am just as cosmopolitan as you if judged by how far i have travelled, the languages I speak and my view if the people's of the world. But to go further than that and claim one is a citizen of the world is to make the implicit claim.that one no longer regards oneself as a citizen of the country of their birth. On that basis May was absolutely right to regard such people as having chosen to turn their backs on their country.Cyclefree said:
It implies that they somehow don't care about their country at all or as much as the other group. And that is not fair. Some may not - the Philip Greens of this world, for instance, people who view a country as somewhere to do business but not somewhere they pay taxes - but being cosmopolitan does not make you someone who does not care about the country they live in.DavidL said:
I've never really got why this rankled with you so much Alastair. As I understood the original thesis "citizens of nowhere" were likely to be highly educated, intelligent, cosmopolitan and flexible in their outlook, willing to move to wherever the opportunities were greatest. Citizens of somewhere were likely to be parochial, less well educated, small c conservative in their outlook and poorer.AlastairMeeks said:Theresa May has denounced citizens of nowhere. She has been silent when the tabloids accused judges of being enemies of the people. She has used EU citizens as bargaining chips. She has been complicit in talk of saboteurs.
How dare she talk about the tone of bitterness and aggression in the public debate?
Why is being in the former grouping such an insult?
And there is also an unpleasant sub-text to the rootless cosmopolitan meme, which I'm sure I don't need to spell out to you.
And yet if some of its citizens also want to be open to the world, then that is seen as a bad thing.
It is very confusing.0 -
My window cleaner just asked me about investing in bitcoins ...0
-
But it was trite and simplistic.Richard_Nabavi said:
Or it was an attempt to make the positive case for the EU, which unfortunately got torpedoed by the fact that the briefing was hamfisted. From Tim Shipman's 'All Out War' (page 239):TGOHF said:Indeed - it was scaremongering nonsense.
One of those involved in creating the speech said 'It was a briefing not a speech problem'. We never said "World War Three". I think the press totally distorted it.'
The Uk and US have worked together on intelligence and defence without being in a protectionist trading cartel.
0 -
Not really. It was a deceptively simple question but people inevitably answered it both yes and no for a wide variety of reasons and incompatible viewpoints.Cyclefree said:
It is odd though. Some of those in favour of Brexit want Britain to be open to the world not just stuck with the EU, the former being seen as a good thing.Richard_Tyndall said:
But it is a step further than that to say one is a citizen of the world. That is not just being cosmopolitan. I am sure that I am just as cosmopolitan as you if judged by how far i have travelled, the languages I speak and my view if the people's of the world. But to go further than that and claim one is a citizen of the world is to make the implicit claim.that one no longer regards oneself as a citizen of the country of their birth. On that basis May was absolutely right to regard such people as having chosen to turn their backs on their country.Cyclefree said:
It implies that they somehow don't care about their country at all or as much as the other group. And that is not fair. Some may not - the Philip Greens of this world, for instance, people who view a country as somewhere to do business but not somewhere they pay taxes - but being cosmopolitan does not make you someone who does not care about the country they live in.DavidL said:
I've never really got why this rankled with you so much Alastair. As I understood the original thesis "citizens of nowhere" were likely to be highly educated, intelligent, cosmopolitan and flexible in their outlook, willing to move to wherever the opportunities were greatest. Citizens of somewhere were likely to be parochial, less well educated, small c conservative in their outlook and poorer.AlastairMeeks said:Theresa May has denounced citizens of nowhere. She has been silent when the tabloids accused judges of being enemies of the people. She has used EU citizens as bargaining chips. She has been complicit in talk of saboteurs.
How dare she talk about the tone of bitterness and aggression in the public debate?
Why is being in the former grouping such an insult?
And there is also an unpleasant sub-text to the rootless cosmopolitan meme, which I'm sure I don't need to spell out to you.
And yet if some of its citizens also want to be open to the world, then that is seen as a bad thing.
It is very confusing.0 -
The very next sentence is, We said, “Can you guarantee peace on the Continent?”Richard_Nabavi said:
Or it was an attempt to make the positive case for the EU, which unfortunately got torpedoed by the fact that the briefing was hamfisted. From Tim Shipman's 'All Out War' (page 239):TGOHF said:Indeed - it was scaremongering nonsense.
One of those involved in creating the speech said 'It was a briefing not a speech problem'. We never said "World War Three". I think the press totally distorted it.'
And this follows directly from Cameron talking of the first and second world wars. It is clear Cameron meant WW3. And let us take Shipman's source at his word: it was a briefing problem. Well, that just means it was briefed -- by Downing Street -- to the press as meaning world war 3.0 -
Not really.. As I already said it is not about being open to the world. That is undoubtedly a good thing. Well to my mind it is anyway. But that does not mean one has to disavow ones own country. Too many of those claiming to be citizens of the world in my experience use it as a comparative with what they regard as the lesser status of being a citizen of a specific country. They use it as a means to distance themselves from and to denegrate the country of their birth. It is a trait sometimes seen on here from some Remainers and they can hardly be surprised when their country responds in kind.Cyclefree said:
It is odd though. Some of those in favour of Brexit want Britain to be open to the world not just stuck with the EU, the former being seen as a good thing.
And yet if some of its citizens also want to be open to the world, then that is seen as a bad thing.
It is very confusing.
0 -
It had all the hallmarks of being a bubble already, but that has clinched it.JosiasJessop said:My window cleaner just asked me about investing in bitcoins ...
One of my favourite bits in Lewis's The Big Short is when they talk to strippers about their Sub prime portfolio.0 -
I watched a bit of it and was shocked by how ill Frank Field looked.TheScreamingEagles said:That select committee hearing this morning was grim.
0 -
Fabulous scene in a great movie. Sit down, its too distracting, we'll still pay you.Mortimer said:
It had all the hallmarks of being a bubble already, but that has clinched it.JosiasJessop said:My window cleaner just asked me about investing in bitcoins ...
One of my favourite bits in Lewis's The Big Short is when they talk to strippers about their Sub prime portfolio.
Also liked the line "Short everything that man has ever touched."0 -
Also very interesting, on p242: When [focus group] paricipants had decided they did not believe the proposition, they resented it even being used: "That's actually a really gross thing to say."Richard_Nabavi said:
Or it was an attempt to make the positive case for the EU, which unfortunately got torpedoed by the fact that the briefing was hamfisted. From Tim Shipman's 'All Out War' (page 239):TGOHF said:Indeed - it was scaremongering nonsense.
One of those involved in creating the speech said 'It was a briefing not a speech problem'. We never said "World War Three". I think the press totally distorted it.'
Spot on, focus group participants. Reflects my feeling at the time too.
0 -
Remember that this was in the context of a campaign where Gove and Johnson were talking about the 'democratic liberation of a whole continent' and 'speaking up for hundreds of millions of people who have no voice'.DecrepitJohnL said:
The very next sentence is, We said, “Can you guarantee peace on the Continent?”Richard_Nabavi said:
Or it was an attempt to make the positive case for the EU, which unfortunately got torpedoed by the fact that the briefing was hamfisted. From Tim Shipman's 'All Out War' (page 239):TGOHF said:Indeed - it was scaremongering nonsense.
One of those involved in creating the speech said 'It was a briefing not a speech problem'. We never said "World War Three". I think the press totally distorted it.'
And this follows directly from Cameron talking of the first and second world wars. It is clear Cameron meant WW3. And let us take Shipman's source at his word: it was a briefing problem. Well, that just means it was briefed -- by Downing Street -- to the press as meaning world war 3.
If we'd known at the time that Brexit would be such a non-event things might have been different.0 -
At least he didn't say that he had bought an ASIC miner or 16 Titan XP GPUs...JosiasJessop said:My window cleaner just asked me about investing in bitcoins ...
0 -
One of the best films of the last five years.DavidL said:
Fabulous scene in a great movie. Sit down, its too distracting, we'll still pay you.Mortimer said:
It had all the hallmarks of being a bubble already, but that has clinched it.JosiasJessop said:My window cleaner just asked me about investing in bitcoins ...
One of my favourite bits in Lewis's The Big Short is when they talk to strippers about their Sub prime portfolio.
Also liked the line "Short everything that man has ever touched."0 -
You have to be really, really dumb or really, really generous-spirited to think that Cameron wasn't saying that leaving the EU could lead to the UK going to war.DecrepitJohnL said:
The very next sentence is, We said, “Can you guarantee peace on the Continent?”Richard_Nabavi said:
Or it was an attempt to make the positive case for the EU, which unfortunately got torpedoed by the fact that the briefing was hamfisted. From Tim Shipman's 'All Out War' (page 239):TGOHF said:Indeed - it was scaremongering nonsense.
One of those involved in creating the speech said 'It was a briefing not a speech problem'. We never said "World War Three". I think the press totally distorted it.'
And this follows directly from Cameron talking of the first and second world wars. It is clear Cameron meant WW3. And let us take Shipman's source at his word: it was a briefing problem. Well, that just means it was briefed -- by Downing Street -- to the press as meaning world war 3.
And there is little evidence that Remainers are either really, really dumb or generous-spirited.0 -
How many days after invoking Article 50 did it take for Michael Howard to threaten Spain with war?MarqueeMark said:
You have to be really, really dumb or really, really generous-spirited to think that Cameron wasn't saying that leaving the EU could lead to the UK going to war.DecrepitJohnL said:
The very next sentence is, We said, “Can you guarantee peace on the Continent?”Richard_Nabavi said:
Or it was an attempt to make the positive case for the EU, which unfortunately got torpedoed by the fact that the briefing was hamfisted. From Tim Shipman's 'All Out War' (page 239):TGOHF said:Indeed - it was scaremongering nonsense.
One of those involved in creating the speech said 'It was a briefing not a speech problem'. We never said "World War Three". I think the press totally distorted it.'
And this follows directly from Cameron talking of the first and second world wars. It is clear Cameron meant WW3. And let us take Shipman's source at his word: it was a briefing problem. Well, that just means it was briefed -- by Downing Street -- to the press as meaning world war 3.
And there is little evidence that Remainers are either really, really dumb or generous-spirited.0 -
In TM speech today in Manchester she said for women politics can be as much about listening and learning from others than it is about broadcasting your opinions. She has a different style of politics and advised all women in politics to be youself and dont try to be like a sterotype man in order to get on and believe in what you are doing.
This was followed by applause from her audience.
I think many underestimate how much her style resounds with the public0 -
A Romanian murderer tried to stab a woman to death in the middle of a busy street just weeks after being allowed into the UK following a seven-year prison sentence, a court heard.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/02/06/romanian-murderer-tried-stab-woman-death-street-weeks-allowed/0 -
It was Joe Kennedy (later US ambassador to Britain, from where he had to be recalled for voicing too often and too loudly his opinion that we were soon headed for conquest by the Nazis) who sold up before the Wall Street crash after being given stock tips by shoe-shine boys.Mortimer said:
It had all the hallmarks of being a bubble already, but that has clinched it.JosiasJessop said:My window cleaner just asked me about investing in bitcoins ...
One of my favourite bits in Lewis's The Big Short is when they talk to strippers about their Sub prime portfolio.0 -
It was a handpicked audience, I'd be astonished if there wasn't applause.Big_G_NorthWales said:In TM speech today in Manchester she said for women politics can be as much about listening and learning from others than it is about broadcasting your opinions. She has a different style of politics and advised all women in politics to be youself and dont try to be like a sterotype man in order to get on but be yourself and believe in what you are doing.
This was followed by applause from her audience.
I think many underestimate how much her style resounds with the public0 -
What was the subjectSandraMc said:
I watched a bit of it and was shocked by how ill Frank Field looked.TheScreamingEagles said:That select committee hearing this morning was grim.
0 -
Even Baroness Bra is into Crypto...JosiasJessop said:My window cleaner just asked me about investing in bitcoins ...
Baroness Michelle Mone has announced the launch of her own cryptocurrency with boyfriend and businessman Doug Barrowman, in the hope that it will "encourage more women to invest in the tech industry".
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/02/06/baroness-michelle-mone-launches-cryptocurrency-encourage-women/0 -
That's the real trouble with bitcoins -- it's driven up the price of computer components to shocking levels. (That and caused a spate of grown men shoving small girls into pools, streams and other inland waterways.)FrancisUrquhart said:
At least he didn't say that he had bought an ASIC miner or 16 Titan XP GPUs...JosiasJessop said:My window cleaner just asked me about investing in bitcoins ...
0 -
It is probably the worst time in a long long time to buy things like power supplies or Graphics cards. Top end GPUs are going for 2x the retail price.DecrepitJohnL said:
That's the real trouble with bitcoins -- it's driven up the price of computer components to shocking levels. (That and caused a spate of grown men shoving small girls into pools, streams and other inland waterways.)FrancisUrquhart said:
At least he didn't say that he had bought an ASIC miner or 16 Titan XP GPUs...JosiasJessop said:My window cleaner just asked me about investing in bitcoins ...
0 -
You really have such a bias against herTheScreamingEagles said:
It was a handpicked audience, I'd be astonished if there wasn't applause.Big_G_NorthWales said:In TM speech today in Manchester she said for women politics can be as much about listening and learning from others than it is about broadcasting your opinions. She has a different style of politics and advised all women in politics to be youself and dont try to be like a sterotype man in order to get on but be yourself and believe in what you are doing.
This was followed by applause from her audience.
I think many underestimate how much her style resounds with the public0 -
On the positive side, it's caused massive investment in GPUs by nVidia and the like, so graphics cards are likely to be much cheaper in the future.DecrepitJohnL said:
That's the real trouble with bitcoins -- it's driven up the price of computer components to shocking levels. (That and caused a spate of grown men shoving small girls into pools, streams and other inland waterways.)FrancisUrquhart said:
At least he didn't say that he had bought an ASIC miner or 16 Titan XP GPUs...JosiasJessop said:My window cleaner just asked me about investing in bitcoins ...
Maybe - by making GPUs so much cheaper in the long-run - VR will be the real winner from Bitcoin.0 -
I'm sorry but you can't equate a partisan audience with "the public" and then say her style resounds.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You really have such a bias against herTheScreamingEagles said:
It was a handpicked audience, I'd be astonished if there wasn't applause.Big_G_NorthWales said:In TM speech today in Manchester she said for women politics can be as much about listening and learning from others than it is about broadcasting your opinions. She has a different style of politics and advised all women in politics to be youself and dont try to be like a sterotype man in order to get on but be yourself and believe in what you are doing.
This was followed by applause from her audience.
I think many underestimate how much her style resounds with the public
IDS could get applause from an audience. Anyone can.0 -
If I was an adviser to Kim Jong May, I would be really pushing the idea of doing public events where the audience isn't all true blue supporters. Call Me Dave became very polished by regularly having to handle shouty audience members.TheScreamingEagles said:
It was a handpicked audience, I'd be astonished if there wasn't applause.Big_G_NorthWales said:In TM speech today in Manchester she said for women politics can be as much about listening and learning from others than it is about broadcasting your opinions. She has a different style of politics and advised all women in politics to be youself and dont try to be like a sterotype man in order to get on but be yourself and believe in what you are doing.
This was followed by applause from her audience.
I think many underestimate how much her style resounds with the public
I know Jezza preaches to the cult, but they were open events and by doing so he (like Trump) can AB test the message.
I mean look at JRM, he seems to have got decent PR from shouty Maomentumers acting like dicks at his event.0
