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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Jon Trickett – Labour’s man to sort out the outsourcing mess?

SystemSystem Posts: 12,257
edited February 2018 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Jon Trickett – Labour’s man to sort out the outsourcing mess?

When Jon Trickett was leader of the Leeds City Council in the early 90s he had a regular Friday date with finance department officials. He got them to bring along every bill the council had paid that week. He then pulled out at random a number of bills to prompt a discussion on whether the ratepayers had got value for money from suppliers.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,334
    Primus inter pares.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,334
    That select committee hearing this morning was grim.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,910
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Primus inter pares.

    Speak English proper, loike.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,334
    JosiasJessop said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Primus inter pares.

    Speak English proper, loike.
    La Reyne le veult.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,287
    Third like Boris
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,240
    edited February 2018
    FPT:
    John_M said:

    El_Capitano said:

    FF43 said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Interesting question from Evan D:

    https://twitter.com/EvanHD/status/960831454535090176
    https://twitter.com/EvanHD/status/960832025245646849

    I think the EU could compromise on Freedom of Movement. It isn't an all or nothing thing. But the concessions would be limited and would come at a price. Freedom of Movement isn't mainly about visas. It's a requirement on member states to treat nationals of other member states in the same way as your nationals, without discrimination. So the UK would have to identify what kind of discrimination it might want to apply and to demonstrate it wouldn't have any effect on the Single Market and the level playing field.
    This solution already exists, of course, because Liechtenstein has it: EFTA membership without Freedom of Movement.
    Liechtenstein is the size of a pocket handkerchief and is mostly mountain. It's as populous as Bridgewater or Camberley. It can justify its exemption.
    Sure. I wouldn't claim that we would get the same exemption for the same reasons.

    But the point is that the EU is willing to countenance an exemption. We could claim different grounds for an exemption - island status, significantly anomalous economy compared to the EU as a whole, historic Commonwealth links, whatever. I wouldn't attempt to choose those grounds - way beyond my pay grade. But the Liechtenstein example shows that the EU can and would listen.

    (Edit: sixth like UKIP)
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,301
    @roger Great joke re sat nav. My wife laughed very loudly.
  • BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    Oh. A Don Brind thread.

    Nope.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Spellar said there there are “two separate but linked problems: the business model and the performance of these companies? Like Carillion, Capita seems to be part of the over-concentrated, over-leveraged, dividend-and-bonus-exploiting culture that relies on the state to bail out failure."

    And there, in a nutshell, is the nonsense of Labour's position laid bare. On the one hand they claim that private companies are fleecing taxpayers,that risk is not transferred, and that (in the most naive form of the argument) they are more expensive than public-sector organizations because they have to make profits. Then in the next breath they point to two companies where manifestly risk was transferred to shareholders and bondholders, and where the problem has been insufficiently profitable contracts.

    Of course, in a party where economic illiteracy is a badge of honour, we shouldn't be too surprised. Jon Trickett is saying what Labour supporters want to hear. He'll do well, we just have to hope that this back-to-the-1970s nostalgia trip, forgetting all the lessons that have been learned over the years, never actually comes to fruition.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,775
    Colin Crouch is 100% right in his comment - some companies are just good at knowing how to win a tender.

  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.

    And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited February 2018
    Danny565 said:

    Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.

    And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.

    To partially correct myself, having seen the full clip, she does backpedal a little bit a minute later:

    https://twitter.com/daily_politics/status/960850848770277376
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Danny565 said:

    Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.

    And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.

    Yet we don't see JRM or Bill Cash saying similar re Soubry or Greening.

    Tells me who the intolerant ones are.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,602
    edited February 2018
    Danny565 said:

    Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.

    And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.

    A Rees Mogg v Corbyn general election would be the most polarised ideologically and politically since 1983 when Thatcher faced Foot. That choice produced the SDP who formed a new pro EEC and centrist alliance with the Liberals, it is not impossible history could repeat itself
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,334
    TGOHF said:

    Danny565 said:

    Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.

    And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.

    Yet we don't see JRM or Bill Cash saying similar re Soubry or Greening.

    Tells me who the intolerant ones are.
    The most recent defectors from the Tory party were the hardcore Leavers who did their best to make Ed Miliband Prime Minister.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,602
    El_Capitano said:

    FPT:

    John_M said:

    El_Capitano said:

    FF43 said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    Interesting question from Evan D:

    https://twitter.com/EvanHD/status/960831454535090176
    https://twitter.com/EvanHD/status/960832025245646849

    I think the EU could compromise on Freedom of Movement. It isn't an all or nothing thing. But the concessions would be limited and would come at a price. Freedom of Movement isn't mainly about visas. It's a requirement on member states to treat nationals of other member states in the same way as your nationals, without discrimination. So the UK would have to identify what kind of discrimination it might want to apply and to demonstrate it wouldn't have any effect on the Single Market and the level playing field.
    This solution already exists, of course, because Liechtenstein has it: EFTA membership without Freedom of Movement.
    Liechtenstein is the size of a pocket handkerchief and is mostly mountain. It's as populous as Bridgewater or Camberley. It can justify its exemption.
    Sure. I wouldn't claim that we would get the same exemption for the same reasons.

    But the point is that the EU is willing to countenance an exemption. We could claim different grounds for an exemption - island status, significantly anomalous economy compared to the EU as a whole, historic Commonwealth links, whatever. I wouldn't attempt to choose those grounds - way beyond my pay grade. But the Liechtenstein example shows that the EU can and would listen.

    (Edit: sixth like UKIP)
    Of course we have never even taken the transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries the EU allowed us in 2004 thanks to Blair
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621
    HYUFD said:

    Danny565 said:

    Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.

    And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.

    A Rees Mogg v Corbyn general election would be the most polarised ideologically and politically since 1983 when Thatcher faced Kinnock. That choice produced the SDP who formed a new pro EEC and centrist alliance with the Liberals, it is not impossible history could repeat itself
    It would be far more polarised than Thatcher/Kinnock. I think you have to go back to the interwar period and the rise of the Labour Party.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,910
    TGOHF said:

    Danny565 said:

    Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.

    And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.

    Yet we don't see JRM or Bill Cash saying similar re Soubry or Greening.

    Tells me who the intolerant ones are.
    They don't need to say it because neither Soubry or Greening are likely to become leader.

    The intolerance of the Brexiteers in the Conservative Party is well documented, and they have already traitorously seen off several party leaders.

    So yes, JRM and Cash *are* the intolerant ones.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    I'd probably leave the party if JRM became leader, simply because it would mean that the Conservative Party had (as in the IDS days) given up on wanting to be a party of government.

    If it were Boris I'd wait and see.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,602
    Anorak said:

    HYUFD said:

    Danny565 said:

    Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.

    And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.

    A Rees Mogg v Corbyn general election would be the most polarised ideologically and politically since 1983 when Thatcher faced Kinnock. That choice produced the SDP who formed a new pro EEC and centrist alliance with the Liberals, it is not impossible history could repeat itself
    It would be far more polarised than Thatcher/Kinnock. I think you have to go back to the interwar period and the rise of the Labour Party.
    Sorry, I meant Thatcher v Foot, now corrected. Thatcher was the right-wing choice for the Tory leadership, Foot the left-wing choice for the Labour leadership
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,553
    HYUFD said:

    Danny565 said:

    Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.

    And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.

    A Rees Mogg v Corbyn general election would be the most polarised ideologically and politically since 1983 when Thatcher faced Foot. That choice produced the SDP who formed a new pro EEC and centrist alliance with the Liberals, it is not impossible history could repeat itself
    1983 was Maggie vs Foot, and the SDP formed years earlier.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,602
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    I'd probably leave the party if JRM became leader, simply because it would mean that the Conservative Party had (as in the IDS days) given up on wanting to be a party of government.

    If it were Boris I'd wait and see.

    In a JRM v Corbyn election either could win
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    HYUFD said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    I'd probably leave the party if JRM became leader, simply because it would mean that the Conservative Party had (as in the IDS days) given up on wanting to be a party of government.

    If it were Boris I'd wait and see.

    In a JRM v Corbyn election either could win
    Either could lose, you mean.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,254
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TGOHF said:

    Danny565 said:

    Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.

    And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.

    Yet we don't see JRM or Bill Cash saying similar re Soubry or Greening.

    Tells me who the intolerant ones are.
    The most recent defectors from the Tory party were the hardcore Leavers who did their best to make Ed Miliband Prime Minister.
    The Tory defectors before that were the hardcore Europhiles who did their bit to keep Tony Blair and Gordon Brown as Prime Minister.

    I know who my ire is reserved for.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,334
    MarqueeMark said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TGOHF said:

    Danny565 said:

    Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.

    And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.

    Yet we don't see JRM or Bill Cash saying similar re Soubry or Greening.

    Tells me who the intolerant ones are.
    The most recent defectors from the Tory party were the hardcore Leavers who did their best to make Ed Miliband Prime Minister.
    The Tory defectors before that were the hardcore Europhiles who did their bit to keep Tony Blair and Gordon Brown as Prime Minister.

    I know who my ire is reserved for.
    You mean IDS and the rebels in the 1992 who practically were the midwives to the Labour landslide.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,254
    Are the Left going to have a meltdown tomorrow when the Today Programme special, focussing on the centenary of women getting the vote, announces Margaret Thatcher as the Woman of the Century?

    Or will enough of them have held their nose and voted for Queen Eliabeth II to make the difference. Oh, the irony.....
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    MarqueeMark said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TGOHF said:

    Danny565 said:

    Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.

    And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.

    Yet we don't see JRM or Bill Cash saying similar re Soubry or Greening.

    Tells me who the intolerant ones are.
    The most recent defectors from the Tory party were the hardcore Leavers who did their best to make Ed Miliband Prime Minister.
    The Tory defectors before that were the hardcore Europhiles who did their bit to keep Tony Blair and Gordon Brown as Prime Minister.

    I know who my ire is reserved for.
    Really? Who were they? Shaun Woodward is the only defector can think of, and his defection had zero effect except to provide us with entertainment.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,254
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TGOHF said:

    Danny565 said:

    Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.

    And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.

    Yet we don't see JRM or Bill Cash saying similar re Soubry or Greening.

    Tells me who the intolerant ones are.
    The most recent defectors from the Tory party were the hardcore Leavers who did their best to make Ed Miliband Prime Minister.
    The Tory defectors before that were the hardcore Europhiles who did their bit to keep Tony Blair and Gordon Brown as Prime Minister.

    I know who my ire is reserved for.
    You mean IDS and the rebels in the 1992 who practically were the midwives to the Labour landslide.
    You seem to have blanked out Shaun Woodward. You know, the Labour MP with a butler.... The one that allowed David Cameron to become an MP.

    Whatever happened to that pair?
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    If the presence of unsustainable pension deficits was a reason for not offering service contracts than surely the public sector would never be eligible to run an ice cream stand never mind a public service.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,240
    HYUFD said:

    Danny565 said:

    Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.

    And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.

    A Rees Mogg v Corbyn general election would be the most polarised ideologically and politically since 1983 when Thatcher faced Foot. That choice produced the SDP who formed a new pro EEC and centrist alliance with the Liberals, it is not impossible history could repeat itself
    Absolutely.

    I'd always been sceptical about the prospect of a new Alliance. Lib Dems + "new SDP" (i.e. Umunna et al) seemed to me to have little electoral appeal beyond the existing Lib Dems.

    But a three-way Alliance of Lib Dems, Ummuna-ites and Soubryites? I can conceivably see that working.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,334
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TGOHF said:

    Danny565 said:

    Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.

    And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.

    Yet we don't see JRM or Bill Cash saying similar re Soubry or Greening.

    Tells me who the intolerant ones are.
    The most recent defectors from the Tory party were the hardcore Leavers who did their best to make Ed Miliband Prime Minister.
    The Tory defectors before that were the hardcore Europhiles who did their bit to keep Tony Blair and Gordon Brown as Prime Minister.

    I know who my ire is reserved for.
    Really? Who were they? Shaun Woodward is the only defector can think of, and his defection had zero effect except to provide us with entertainment.
    Shaun Woodward helped make David Cameron PM.

    Top bloke.

    Other defectors of that era were Robert Jackson (over tuition fees) and Peter Temple Morris (who did in part over EU matters)

    So only one in three defected over the EU.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,334
    MarqueeMark said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TGOHF said:

    Danny565 said:

    Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.

    And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.

    Yet we don't see JRM or Bill Cash saying similar re Soubry or Greening.

    Tells me who the intolerant ones are.
    The most recent defectors from the Tory party were the hardcore Leavers who did their best to make Ed Miliband Prime Minister.
    The Tory defectors before that were the hardcore Europhiles who did their bit to keep Tony Blair and Gordon Brown as Prime Minister.

    I know who my ire is reserved for.
    You mean IDS and the rebels in the 1992 who practically were the midwives to the Labour landslide.
    You seem to have blanked out Shaun Woodward. You know, the Labour MP with a butler.... The one that allowed David Cameron to become an MP.

    Whatever happened to that pair?
    Shaun Woodward defected over Section 28.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,863
    TGOHF said:

    Danny565 said:

    Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.

    And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.

    Yet we don't see JRM or Bill Cash saying similar re Soubry or Greening.

    Tells me who the intolerant ones are.
    I haven't seen the clip, but my immediate thought was that (in the incredibly unlikely event that Justine Greening quit the Conservatives under JRM), it would be because of the conflict between her sexual orientation and JP2's views on homosexuality.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,927
    TGOHF said:

    Danny565 said:

    Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.

    And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.

    Yet we don't see JRM or Bill Cash saying similar re Soubry or Greening.

    Tells me who the intolerant ones are.
    Because any party they left for would likely be doomed to irrelevance - whereas, as Macron has demonstrated, centrists leaving for a centrist party might have a realistic chance of again being in government.

    Nothing to do with tolerance, more to do with refusing to be taken for a ride.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,927
    JosiasJessop said:

    TGOHF said:

    Danny565 said:

    Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.

    And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.

    Yet we don't see JRM or Bill Cash saying similar re Soubry or Greening.

    Tells me who the intolerant ones are.
    They don't need to say it because neither Soubry or Greening are likely to become leader.

    The intolerance of the Brexiteers in the Conservative Party is well documented, and they have already traitorously seen off several party leaders...

    Disloyal, perhaps. Calling them "traitorous" is to descend to their level.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,871
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TGOHF said:

    Danny565 said:

    Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.

    And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.

    Yet we don't see JRM or Bill Cash saying similar re Soubry or Greening.

    Tells me who the intolerant ones are.
    The most recent defectors from the Tory party were the hardcore Leavers who did their best to make Ed Miliband Prime Minister.
    The Tory defectors before that were the hardcore Europhiles who did their bit to keep Tony Blair and Gordon Brown as Prime Minister.

    I know who my ire is reserved for.
    You mean IDS and the rebels in the 1992 who practically were the midwives to the Labour landslide.
    You seem to have blanked out Shaun Woodward. You know, the Labour MP with a butler.... The one that allowed David Cameron to become an MP.

    Whatever happened to that pair?
    Shaun Woodward defected over Section 28.
    Last seen in the US, according to Wikipedia.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,334
    edited February 2018
    What’s JRM’s position on the Queen?

    Given he takes his whip from Rome surely he considers everyone aWilliam of Orange onwards a Protestant usurper and that it is his job to win the Jacobite uprising ?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,863
    MarqueeMark said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TGOHF said:

    Danny565 said:

    Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.

    And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.

    Yet we don't see JRM or Bill Cash saying similar re Soubry or Greening.

    Tells me who the intolerant ones are.
    The most recent defectors from the Tory party were the hardcore Leavers who did their best to make Ed Miliband Prime Minister.
    The Tory defectors before that were the hardcore Europhiles who did their bit to keep Tony Blair and Gordon Brown as Prime Minister.

    I know who my ire is reserved for.
    You mean IDS and the rebels in the 1992 who practically were the midwives to the Labour landslide.
    You seem to have blanked out Shaun Woodward. You know, the Labour MP with a butler.... The one that allowed David Cameron to become an MP.

    Whatever happened to that pair?
    On the other hand, three Conservative MPs defected to UKIP. (Remember Bob Spink?)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,602
    edited February 2018
    El_Capitano said:

    HYUFD said:

    Danny565 said:

    Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.

    And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.

    A Rees Mogg v Corbyn general election would be the most polarised ideologically and politically since 1983 when Thatcher faced Foot. That choice produced the SDP who formed a new pro EEC and centrist alliance with the Liberals, it is not impossible history could repeat itself
    Absolutely.

    I'd always been sceptical about the prospect of a new Alliance. Lib Dems + "new SDP" (i.e. Umunna et al) seemed to me to have little electoral appeal beyond the existing Lib Dems.

    But a three-way Alliance of Lib Dems, Ummuna-ites and Soubryites? I can conceivably see that working.
    Quite possibly and let us not forget the SDP Liberal Alliance got 25% of the vote in 1983, still the highest total for a third party since WW2
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,334
    rcs1000 said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TGOHF said:

    Danny565 said:

    Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.

    And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.

    Yet we don't see JRM or Bill Cash saying similar re Soubry or Greening.

    Tells me who the intolerant ones are.
    The most recent defectors from the Tory party were the hardcore Leavers who did their best to make Ed Miliband Prime Minister.
    The Tory defectors before that were the hardcore Europhiles who did their bit to keep Tony Blair and Gordon Brown as Prime Minister.

    I know who my ire is reserved for.
    You mean IDS and the rebels in the 1992 who practically were the midwives to the Labour landslide.
    You seem to have blanked out Shaun Woodward. You know, the Labour MP with a butler.... The one that allowed David Cameron to become an MP.

    Whatever happened to that pair?
    On the other hand, three Conservative MPs defected to UKIP. (Remember Bob Spink?)
    Also George Gardiner defected to the referendum party.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,254
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TGOHF said:

    Danny565 said:

    Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.

    And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.

    Yet we don't see JRM or Bill Cash saying similar re Soubry or Greening.

    Tells me who the intolerant ones are.
    The most recent defectors from the Tory party were the hardcore Leavers who did their best to make Ed Miliband Prime Minister.
    The Tory defectors before that were the hardcore Europhiles who did their bit to keep Tony Blair and Gordon Brown as Prime Minister.

    I know who my ire is reserved for.
    You mean IDS and the rebels in the 1992 who practically were the midwives to the Labour landslide.
    You seem to have blanked out Shaun Woodward. You know, the Labour MP with a butler.... The one that allowed David Cameron to become an MP.

    Whatever happened to that pair?
    Shaun Woodward defected over Section 28.
    He still had a perfect Parliamentary voting record on supporting the Lisbon Treaty....
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,602
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    HYUFD said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    I'd probably leave the party if JRM became leader, simply because it would mean that the Conservative Party had (as in the IDS days) given up on wanting to be a party of government.

    If it were Boris I'd wait and see.

    In a JRM v Corbyn election either could win
    Either could lose, you mean.
    One of the two would likely become PM though
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,863
    OldKingCole said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TGOHF said:

    Danny565 said:

    Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.

    And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.

    Yet we don't see JRM or Bill Cash saying similar re Soubry or Greening.

    Tells me who the intolerant ones are.
    The most recent defectors from the Tory party were the hardcore Leavers who did their best to make Ed Miliband Prime Minister.
    The Tory defectors before that were the hardcore Europhiles who did their bit to keep Tony Blair and Gordon Brown as Prime Minister.

    I know who my ire is reserved for.
    You mean IDS and the rebels in the 1992 who practically were the midwives to the Labour landslide.
    You seem to have blanked out Shaun Woodward. You know, the Labour MP with a butler.... The one that allowed David Cameron to become an MP.

    Whatever happened to that pair?
    Shaun Woodward defected over Section 28.
    Last seen in the US, according to Wikipedia.
    Living in Sag Harbor, no less! Where my family used to spend summers :smile:
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    HYUFD said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    HYUFD said:

    Richard_Nabavi said:

    I'd probably leave the party if JRM became leader, simply because it would mean that the Conservative Party had (as in the IDS days) given up on wanting to be a party of government.

    If it were Boris I'd wait and see.

    In a JRM v Corbyn election either could win
    Either could lose, you mean.
    One of the two would likely become PM though
    Yes, briefly.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,602
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Danny565 said:

    Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.

    And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.

    A Rees Mogg v Corbyn general election would be the most polarised ideologically and politically since 1983 when Thatcher faced Foot. That choice produced the SDP who formed a new pro EEC and centrist alliance with the Liberals, it is not impossible history could repeat itself
    1983 was Maggie vs Foot, and the SDP formed years earlier.
    Foot was elected Labour leader in 1980 and Thatcher Tory leader in 1975 and the SDP formed in 1981 after both had been elected leader of the two main parties
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,871
    edited February 2018
    rcs1000 said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    TGOHF said:

    Danny565 said:

    Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.

    And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.

    Yet we don't see JRM or Bill Cash saying similar re Soubry or Greening.

    Tells me who the intolerant ones are.
    The most recent defectors from the Tory party were the hardcore Leavers who did their best to make Ed Miliband Prime Minister.
    The Tory defectors before that were the hardcore Europhiles who did their bit to keep Tony Blair and Gordon Brown as Prime Minister.

    I know who my ire is reserved for.
    You mean IDS and the rebels in the 1992 who practically were the midwives to the Labour landslide.
    You seem to have blanked out Shaun Woodward. You know, the Labour MP with a butler.... The one that allowed David Cameron to become an MP.

    Whatever happened to that pair?
    On the other hand, three Conservative MPs defected to UKIP. (Remember Bob Spink?)
    Currently the recipient of a six-month stretch, suspended for two years, for electoral fraud. Tricking people into signing UKIP nomination papers IIRC.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,762
    Talking of defections, who can remember the curious one of Quentin Davies? I never figured that one out.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,334
    Stark_Dawning said:

    Talking of defections, who can remember the curious one of Quentin Davies? I never figured that one out.

    He was pissed off Dave wouldn’t give him a job.

    Plus he thought Gordon Brown was going to win the next general election, be it a snap election or the 2009/10 one.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,546
    edited February 2018
    Ms Davison was found guilty of placing a "dangerous substance likely to injure" in a post office letter box outside Parliament and sentenced to six months in Holloway Prison

    Labour leader Mr Corbyn said his party would give pardons if it came to power as convictions of suffragettes were "politically motivated and bore no relation to the acts committed".

    He really is a pillock. Using that logic all IRA terrorists should be pardoned.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,910
    Nigelb said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    TGOHF said:

    Danny565 said:

    Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.

    And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.

    Yet we don't see JRM or Bill Cash saying similar re Soubry or Greening.

    Tells me who the intolerant ones are.
    They don't need to say it because neither Soubry or Greening are likely to become leader.

    The intolerance of the Brexiteers in the Conservative Party is well documented, and they have already traitorously seen off several party leaders...

    Disloyal, perhaps. Calling them "traitorous" is to descend to their level.
    Yeah, I'm just using it as a joke, since it is a word leavers love to throw around and is now apparently part of legitimate political discourse. ;)

    Although my anger against the cabal who acted against Major has never really abated. They went way beyond disloyalty, both to the party and the country.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,910
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Labour leader Mr Corbyn said his party would give pardons if it came to power as convictions of suffragettes were "politically motivated and bore no relation to the acts committed".

    He really is a pillock. Using that logic all IRA terrorists should be pardoned.

    Don't give him ideas.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Labour leader Mr Corbyn said his party would give pardons if it came to power as convictions of suffragettes were "politically motivated and bore no relation to the acts committed".

    He really is a pillock. Using that logic all IRA terrorists should be pardoned.

    Indeed. I think it is right to recognize their struggle, sacrifice and achievements. It is wrong that they had to use such extreme methods to achieve their aims but such was the world at that time. But it would be wrong to give legitimacy to criminal activity by issuing a blanket pardon just to appear ''right on'
  • rawzerrawzer Posts: 189
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    What’s JRM’s position on the Queen?

    Given he takes his whip from Rome surely he considers everyone aWilliam of Orange onwards a Protestant usurper and that it is his job to win the Jacobite uprising ?

    Is there a Stuart candidate knocking around - wasnt there one in Oz? Should really hop back to the Plantagenets anyway as the Tudors had stuff all claim.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,910
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Stark_Dawning said:

    Talking of defections, who can remember the curious one of Quentin Davies? I never figured that one out.

    He was pissed off Dave wouldn’t give him a job.

    Plus he thought Gordon Brown was going to win the next general election, be it a snap election or the 2009/10 one.
    With some of these MPs, I do wonder if part of it is a realisation their career is not going to get too much further, and they want to create a little footnote in history. After all, we're talking of Davies now, when many other of his cohort of MPs are more or less forgotten.

    See also, Louise Mensch.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,720
    edited February 2018
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Ms Davison was found guilty of placing a "dangerous substance likely to injure" in a post office letter box outside Parliament and sentenced to six months in Holloway Prison

    Labour leader Mr Corbyn said his party would give pardons if it came to power as convictions of suffragettes were "politically motivated and bore no relation to the acts committed".

    He really is a pillock. Using that logic all IRA terrorists should be pardoned.

    He would use that logic.

    I think it would be wrong to pardon people who resorted to violence to achieve a political aim, when peaceful methods of campaigning were available to them.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,483
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Ms Davison was found guilty of placing a "dangerous substance likely to injure" in a post office letter box outside Parliament and sentenced to six months in Holloway Prison

    Labour leader Mr Corbyn said his party would give pardons if it came to power as convictions of suffragettes were "politically motivated and bore no relation to the acts committed".

    He really is a pillock. Using that logic all IRA terrorists should be pardoned.

    Christ! Don't give him ideas.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,871
    edited February 2018
    rawzer said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    What’s JRM’s position on the Queen?

    Given he takes his whip from Rome surely he considers everyone aWilliam of Orange onwards a Protestant usurper and that it is his job to win the Jacobite uprising ?

    Is there a Stuart candidate knocking around - wasnt there one in Oz? Should really hop back to the Plantagenets anyway as the Tudors had stuff all claim.
    Where's JackW, the expert on all things Jacobite?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,817
    JosiasJessop said:

    Although my anger against the cabal who acted against Major has never really abated. They went way beyond disloyalty, both to the party and the country.

    In retrospect John Smith playing party political games over Maastricht did so much damage to the fabric of our politics. The Tory rebels of the time were principled, but given way too much prominence which allowed them to hold the party to ransom throughout the Blair era.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,483
    The thread is an interesting one. How to deliver efficient and high quality public services without wasting taxpayers' money is very important.

    I have no idea whether Trickett is the man for the job. He may well be if he has experience of running a council.

    But I have very little confidence in Corbyn/McDonnell on this since they start and end with the assumption that all public services must be delivered by the public sector, regardless of any other consideration.

    So efficiency and value for money and high quality don't seem to come into it.

    Until both parties can move on from public good/private bad (Labour) or public bad/private good (Tories), there will be no sensible answer to this question.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,553
    oxfordsimon said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Labour leader Mr Corbyn said his party would give pardons if it came to power as convictions of suffragettes were "politically motivated and bore no relation to the acts committed".

    He really is a pillock. Using that logic all IRA terrorists should be pardoned.

    Indeed. I think it is right to recognize their struggle, sacrifice and achievements. It is wrong that they had to use such extreme methods to achieve their aims but such was the world at that time. But it would be wrong to give legitimacy to criminal activity by issuing a blanket pardon just to appear ''right on'
    It would be daft not least because the suffragettes deliberately broke laws as a form of protest, pardoning them invalidates them:

    https://twitter.com/CCriadoPerez/status/960791328513757184
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,587
    Query: don't the detailed ICM tables show a 1-point Labour lead (somewhat more until certainty to vote is tested), rather than a 1-point Tory lead as reported on the last thread?

    https://www.icmunlimited.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/ICM-Guardian-05thFeb18-BPC.pdf

    All MOE but we may as well get it right.

    Good to see they've included the "Are you on the electoral register?" question.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,786
    edited February 2018
    oxfordsimon said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Labour leader Mr Corbyn said his party would give pardons if it came to power as convictions of suffragettes were "politically motivated and bore no relation to the acts committed".

    He really is a pillock. Using that logic all IRA terrorists should be pardoned.

    Indeed. I think it is right to recognize their struggle, sacrifice and achievements. It is wrong that they had to use such extreme methods to achieve their aims but such was the world at that time. But it would be wrong to give legitimacy to criminal activity by issuing a blanket pardon just to appear ''right on'
    Yeah, i think we have to be very very careful here. A comparison might be with for example Animal Rights Activists. Would they be 'allowed' the same leeway on the basis that animals can't act for themselves or have access to the policical process, so acts of vandalism and other crimal activity is legitimised on the basis they are are 'morally right'?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,213
    edited February 2018
    FPT

    CarlottaVance said:


    Another straw falls away:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/06/bid-for-legal-ruling-on-whether-uk-can-unilaterally-abandon-brexit-fails

    I said:
    Interesting. The full judgment is here: https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/docs/default-source/cos-general-docs/pdf-docs-for-opinions/2018csoh8.pdf?sfvrsn=0

    What is clear is that all the extra hurdles that those opposed to Brexit have forced the government to jump are now coming back to bite them. Parliament legislated for the issuing of the Article 50 notice and approved its service. That is the government's policy so there is no basis for dealing with the hypothetical question of what happens if the government changes its mind.

    Must say that I expected this to go to a fuller hearing but it appears from the Judgment that there has been a fairly substantial hearing already
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/skynews/status/960883740279955456

    https://twitter.com/iandunt/status/960828810580160512
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    DavidL said:

    FPT

    CarlottaVance said:


    Another straw falls away:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/06/bid-for-legal-ruling-on-whether-uk-can-unilaterally-abandon-brexit-fails

    I said:
    Interesting. The full judgment is here: https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/docs/default-source/cos-general-docs/pdf-docs-for-opinions/2018csoh8.pdf?sfvrsn=0

    What is clear is that all the extra hurdles that those opposed to Brexit have forced the government to jump are now coming back to bite them. Parliament legislated for the issuing of the Article 50 notice and approved its service. That is the government's policy so there is no basis for dealing with the hypothetical question of what happens if the government changes its mind.

    Must say that I expected this to go to a fuller hearing but it appears from the Judgment that there has been a fairly substantial hearing already

    Do they need leave to appeal, and will they get it?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,720
    NickPalmer said:

    Query: don't the detailed ICM tables show a 1-point Labour lead (somewhat more until certainty to vote is tested), rather than a 1-point Tory lead as reported on the last thread?

    https://www.icmunlimited.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/ICM-Guardian-05thFeb18-BPC.pdf

    All MOE but we may as well get it right.

    Good to see they've included the "Are you on the electoral register?" question.

    That's before the "squeeze" question.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,334
    NickPalmer said:

    Query: don't the detailed ICM tables show a 1-point Labour lead (somewhat more until certainty to vote is tested), rather than a 1-point Tory lead as reported on the last thread?

    https://www.icmunlimited.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/ICM-Guardian-05thFeb18-BPC.pdf

    All MOE but we may as well get it right.

    Good to see they've included the "Are you on the electoral register?" question.

    No. It is a 1% Tory lead, see table 5.

    ICM have always used the figures once the spiral of silence adjustment has been applied.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Scott posting increasingly bewildering and not credible tweets from the arch-Europhile Dunt is indicative of the desperation of some remainers on here.

    Nobody cares outside you and Mr Dunt.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,334
    I see Britain First are coming to Jacob Rees-Mogg’s aid

    He and the Tories need to deal with the elan Boris displayed when the BNP endorsed him or it’ll get messy.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,483
    For various reasons I have been listening to radio news programmes more than normal in the last few days. I can sum up what I have learnt, as follows:-

    1. The Tories are an absolute fucking shambles. An absolute shower. Of shits, incompetents and Brexit-obsessed loons
    2. Labour are an absolute fucking shambles: of extreme left ex-Militants with interesting views about some minorities, cowed MPs and a leadership largely silent on key issues.
    3. The Lib Dems may well also be an absolute fucking shambles but since no-one has heard or seen them for months it is impossible to tell.
    4. UKIP would also be an absolute shambles but is now in reality one middle-aged man fucking for Britain, or something.
    5. Brexit is an absolute FUBAR and Britain is playing the role of the first Mrs Rochester in the attic, as far as the rest of Europe is concerned

    Have I missed anything?

    (Oh and apologies for the terrible language.)
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    TGOHF said:

    Nobody cares outside you and Mr Dunt.

    Clearly you care enough to claim nobody cares...
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,817
    Fascinating analysis of the sea change in the social media landscape since the referendum.
    https://twitter.com/cronycle/status/960863700633772032
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,546
    Cyclefree said:

    For various reasons I have been listening to radio news programmes more than normal in the last few days. I can sum up what I have learnt, as follows:-

    1. The Tories are an absolute fucking shambles. An absolute shower. Of shits, incompetents and Brexit-obsessed loons
    2. Labour are an absolute fucking shambles: of extreme left ex-Militants with interesting views about some minorities, cowed MPs and a leadership largely silent on key issues.
    3. The Lib Dems may well also be an absolute fucking shambles but since no-one has heard or seen them for months it is impossible to tell.
    4. UKIP would also be an absolute shambles but is now in reality one middle-aged man fucking for Britain, or something.
    5. Brexit is an absolute FUBAR and Britain is playing the role of the first Mrs Rochester in the attic, as far as the rest of Europe is concerned

    Have I missed anything?

    (Oh and apologies for the terrible language.)

    You really should give radio daily mirror ie R5 a miss...It's as bad for your health as smoking and drinking.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,786
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/skynews/status/960883740279955456

    https://twitter.com/iandunt/status/960828810580160512

    Can he do better than a weak and wimpy 'but but, May did it first...waaaaaaaaaaaa'?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,334
    edited February 2018
    Lawyers for President Trump have advised him against sitting down for a wide-ranging interview with the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, according to four people briefed on the matter, raising the specter of a monthslong court battle over whether the president must answer questions under oath.

    His lawyers are concerned that the president, who has a history of making false statements and contradicting himself, could be charged with lying to investigators. Their stance puts them at odds with Mr. Trump, who has said publicly and privately that he is eager to speak with Mr. Mueller as part of the investigation into possible ties between his associates and Russia’s election interference, and whether he obstructed justice.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/05/us/politics/trump-lawyers-special-counsel-interview.html
  • stevefstevef Posts: 1,044
    Good to hear that Labour has the right man for the job.

    And of course the general election victory in 2022 of a 73 year old Marxist who is leader of the only opposition in history to have won an election without being 15 points or more ahead in the polls is all in the bag isnt it?
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,786
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I see Britain First are coming to Jacob Rees-Mogg’s aid

    He and the Tories need to deal with the elan Boris displayed when the BNP endorsed him or it’ll get messy.

    That's what happens in culture wars, all the cretins on both sides crawl out of the woodwork when there's a fake fight to be had.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,546
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Lawyers for President Trump have advised him against sitting down for a wide-ranging interview with the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, according to four people briefed on the matter, raising the specter of a monthslong court battle over whether the president must answer questions under oath.

    His lawyers are concerned that the president, who has a history of making false statements and contradicting himself, could be charged with lying to investigators. Their stance puts them at odds with Mr. Trump, who has said publicly and privately that he is eager to speak with Mr. Mueller as part of the investigation into possible ties between his associates and Russia’s election interference, and whether he obstructed justice.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/05/us/politics/trump-lawyers-special-counsel-interview.html

    Being trumps lawyer must be an absolute fucking nightmare.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,617
    williamglenn said:

    Fascinating analysis of the sea change in the social media landscape since the referendum.
    https://twitter.com/cronycle/status/960863700633772032

    People tend to be quieter when things are going their way.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,720
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/skynews/status/960883740279955456

    https://twitter.com/iandunt/status/960828810580160512

    That's a bit daft.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,720
    williamglenn said:

    Fascinating analysis of the sea change in the social media landscape since the referendum.
    https://twitter.com/cronycle/status/960863700633772032

    I think it's well established that Twitter is very unrepresentative of public opinion.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/jonlis1/status/960837952271241216
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,213
    Richard_Nabavi said:

    DavidL said:

    FPT

    CarlottaVance said:


    Another straw falls away:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/06/bid-for-legal-ruling-on-whether-uk-can-unilaterally-abandon-brexit-fails

    I said:
    Interesting. The full judgment is here: https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/docs/default-source/cos-general-docs/pdf-docs-for-opinions/2018csoh8.pdf?sfvrsn=0

    What is clear is that all the extra hurdles that those opposed to Brexit have forced the government to jump are now coming back to bite them. Parliament legislated for the issuing of the Article 50 notice and approved its service. That is the government's policy so there is no basis for dealing with the hypothetical question of what happens if the government changes its mind.

    Must say that I expected this to go to a fuller hearing but it appears from the Judgment that there has been a fairly substantial hearing already

    Do they need leave to appeal, and will they get it?
    They don't have a proper right of appeal. Under our new procedures for JR they have the right to have the decision reviewed by another Lord Ordinary who can decide that the case has some prospects of success and should be allowed to proceed. As Lord Docherty says, that is not a high test but he thinks the applicants are well short.

    I think that a successful review very unlikely in this case. Lord Docherty is well respected, he has, somewhat unusually, had a full hearing with both parties and indeed written answers from HMG before coming to a view and it is unlikely that any second judge will repeat that exercise.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Theresa May has denounced citizens of nowhere. She has been silent when the tabloids accused judges of being enemies of the people. She has used EU citizens as bargaining chips. She has been complicit in talk of saboteurs.

    How dare she talk about the tone of bitterness and aggression in the public debate?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,213
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Lawyers for President Trump have advised him against sitting down for a wide-ranging interview with the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, according to four people briefed on the matter, raising the specter of a monthslong court battle over whether the president must answer questions under oath.

    His lawyers are concerned that the president, who has a history of making false statements and contradicting himself, could be charged with lying to investigators. Their stance puts them at odds with Mr. Trump, who has said publicly and privately that he is eager to speak with Mr. Mueller as part of the investigation into possible ties between his associates and Russia’s election interference, and whether he obstructed justice.


    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/05/us/politics/trump-lawyers-special-counsel-interview.html

    The tactful joys of gently suggesting that your own client is a liar and not even particularly good at it. We have all been there.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,546
    The value of Bitcoin has fallen to below $6,000 - its lowest price since November 2017.

    I hope all those late to the party that bought at $15k+ didn't put too much of their net worth into BTC.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,817
    Sean_F said:

    williamglenn said:

    Fascinating analysis of the sea change in the social media landscape since the referendum.
    https://twitter.com/cronycle/status/960863700633772032

    I think it's well established that Twitter is very unrepresentative of public opinion.
    No, but that doesn't mean it's meaningless or cannot be a leading indicator in certain circumstances. Before the referendum, pro-Brexit activity was dominant, and that's completely reversed.
  • stevefstevef Posts: 1,044
    At some point the fruitcake fascists who have taken over the Labour Party which I supported for 40 years will turn on the people whom they now idolise and worship as their Messiahs. Beware Mr Corbyn: revolutions always devour their own children.
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    edited February 2018
    Cyclefree said:

    (Oh and apologies for the terrible language.)

    Sadly, the situation merits the language.

    I wonder the next stage in the progression is? SNAFU, FUBAR, .... BREXIT???? :D:D

    I have come to the conclusion that UK politicians are no longer fit for purpose, so it might actually be better for us to be governed by Brussels and push for the USoE.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,617
    AlastairMeeks said:

    Theresa May has denounced citizens of nowhere. She has been silent when the tabloids accused judges of being enemies of the people. She has used EU citizens as bargaining chips. She has been complicit in talk of saboteurs.

    How dare she talk about the tone of bitterness and aggression in the public debate?

    I'll put you down as undecided about her :)
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    edited February 2018
    .
  • stevefstevef Posts: 1,044
    Pulpstar said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Theresa May has denounced citizens of nowhere. She has been silent when the tabloids accused judges of being enemies of the people. She has used EU citizens as bargaining chips. She has been complicit in talk of saboteurs.

    How dare she talk about the tone of bitterness and aggression in the public debate?

    I'll put you down as undecided about her :)
    And what has Jeremy Corbyn been silent about?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Scott_P said:

    TGOHF said:

    Nobody cares outside you and Mr Dunt.

    Clearly you care enough to claim nobody cares...
    I have an interest in reading this site. If people want to know the deranged views of Mr Dunt they can search out his special interest site.

    Pasting a tweet by a politician or a serious commentator occasionally can be of interest but you are turning into a SJW version of Plato.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Pulpstar said:

    AlastairMeeks said:

    Theresa May has denounced citizens of nowhere. She has been silent when the tabloids accused judges of being enemies of the people. She has used EU citizens as bargaining chips. She has been complicit in talk of saboteurs.

    How dare she talk about the tone of bitterness and aggression in the public debate?

    I'll put you down as undecided about her :)
    She's better than some of the alternatives. I will also credit her with good powers of analysis and a genuine sense of duty. But she is nowhere near up to the job.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,108
    Cyclefree said:

    For various reasons I have been listening to radio news programmes more than normal in the last few days. I can sum up what I have learnt, as follows:-

    1. The Tories are an absolute fucking shambles. An absolute shower. Of shits, incompetents and Brexit-obsessed loons
    2. Labour are an absolute fucking shambles: of extreme left ex-Militants with interesting views about some minorities, cowed MPs and a leadership largely silent on key issues.
    3. The Lib Dems may well also be an absolute fucking shambles but since no-one has heard or seen them for months it is impossible to tell.
    4. UKIP would also be an absolute shambles but is now in reality one middle-aged man fucking for Britain, or something.
    5. Brexit is an absolute FUBAR and Britain is playing the role of the first Mrs Rochester in the attic, as far as the rest of Europe is concerned

    Have I missed anything?

    (Oh and apologies for the terrible language.)

    @malcolmg will go off in a sulk if you don't include the North Britain parties in your keen assessment.
  • stevefstevef Posts: 1,044
    AlastairMeeks said:

    Theresa May has denounced citizens of nowhere. She has been silent when the tabloids accused judges of being enemies of the people. She has used EU citizens as bargaining chips. She has been complicit in talk of saboteurs.

    How dare she talk about the tone of bitterness and aggression in the public debate?

    And of course no one is trying to "sabotage" Brexit.

    Are they?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    AlastairMeeks said:

    Theresa May has denounced citizens of nowhere.

    You keep repeating this. Have you actually read the speech in which she used the phrase?

    we also value something else: the spirit of citizenship.

    That spirit that means you respect the bonds and obligations that make our society work. That means a commitment to the men and women who live around you, who work for you, who buy the goods and services you sell.

    That spirit that means recognising the social contract that says you train up local young people before you take on cheap labour from overseas.

    That spirit that means you do as others do, and pay your fair share of tax.

    But today, too many people in positions of power behave as though they have more in common with international elites than with the people down the road, the people they employ, the people they pass in the street.

    But if you believe you’re a citizen of the world, you’re a citizen of nowhere. You don’t understand what the very word ‘citizenship’ means.

    So if you’re a boss who earns a fortune but doesn’t look after your staff…

    An international company that treats tax laws as an optional extra…

    A household name that refuses to work with the authorities even to fight terrorism…

    A director who takes out massive dividends while knowing that the company pension is about to go bust…

    I’m putting you on warning. This can’t go on anymore.

    A change has got to come. And this party – the Conservative Party – is going to make that change.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/05/theresa-mays-conference-speech-in-full/
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,863
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    The value of Bitcoin has fallen to below $6,000 - its lowest price since November 2017.

    I hope all those late to the party that bought at $15k+ didn't put too much of their net worth into BTC.

    It's worth pausing on that for a second. Bitcoin is the same price it was 10 weeks ago. If the price hadn't moved between November and now, would anyone be getting all excited?

    Its absurd volatility: from $6,000 to $19,000 to $6,000 demonstrates the extent to which Bitcoin stopped being what it was meant to be (a cheap decentralised and largely anonymous payment network), and became a trading chip.

  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    Beverley_C said:

    .

    But how long until the USofE is headed up by a Trump like clone?
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,120
    Cyclefree said:

    For various reasons I have been listening to radio news programmes more than normal in the last few days. I can sum up what I have learnt, as follows:-

    1. The Tories are an absolute fucking shambles. An absolute shower. Of shits, incompetents and Brexit-obsessed loons
    2. Labour are an absolute fucking shambles: of extreme left ex-Militants with interesting views about some minorities, cowed MPs and a leadership largely silent on key issues.
    3. The Lib Dems may well also be an absolute fucking shambles but since no-one has heard or seen them for months it is impossible to tell.
    4. UKIP would also be an absolute shambles but is now in reality one middle-aged man fucking for Britain, or something.
    5. Brexit is an absolute FUBAR and Britain is playing the role of the first Mrs Rochester in the attic, as far as the rest of Europe is concerned

    Have I missed anything?

    (Oh and apologies for the terrible language.)

    Excellent....go Cycle.....I could not have written a better post myself......

    The only redeeming thing about UK politics 2018 is that across the pond their's is actually much worse than ours.

    I love a bit of profanity in the afternoon btw, especially when it is so well articulated....
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