politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Jon Trickett – Labour’s man to sort out the outsourcing mess?
politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Jon Trickett – Labour’s man to sort out the outsourcing mess?
When Jon Trickett was leader of the Leeds City Council in the early 90s he had a regular Friday date with finance department officials. He got them to bring along every bill the council had paid that week. He then pulled out at random a number of bills to prompt a discussion on whether the ratepayers had got value for money from suppliers.
Comments
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Primus inter pares.0
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That select committee hearing this morning was grim.0
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Speak English proper, loike.TheScreamingEagles said:Primus inter pares.
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La Reyne le veult.JosiasJessop said:
Speak English proper, loike.TheScreamingEagles said:Primus inter pares.
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Third like Boris0
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FPT:
Sure. I wouldn't claim that we would get the same exemption for the same reasons.John_M said:
Liechtenstein is the size of a pocket handkerchief and is mostly mountain. It's as populous as Bridgewater or Camberley. It can justify its exemption.El_Capitano said:
This solution already exists, of course, because Liechtenstein has it: EFTA membership without Freedom of Movement.FF43 said:
I think the EU could compromise on Freedom of Movement. It isn't an all or nothing thing. But the concessions would be limited and would come at a price. Freedom of Movement isn't mainly about visas. It's a requirement on member states to treat nationals of other member states in the same way as your nationals, without discrimination. So the UK would have to identify what kind of discrimination it might want to apply and to demonstrate it wouldn't have any effect on the Single Market and the level playing field.CarlottaVance said:Interesting question from Evan
https://twitter.com/EvanHD/status/960831454535090176
https://twitter.com/EvanHD/status/960832025245646849
But the point is that the EU is willing to countenance an exemption. We could claim different grounds for an exemption - island status, significantly anomalous economy compared to the EU as a whole, historic Commonwealth links, whatever. I wouldn't attempt to choose those grounds - way beyond my pay grade. But the Liechtenstein example shows that the EU can and would listen.
(Edit: sixth like UKIP)0 -
Oh. A Don Brind thread.
Nope.0 -
Spellar said there there are “two separate but linked problems: the business model and the performance of these companies? Like Carillion, Capita seems to be part of the over-concentrated, over-leveraged, dividend-and-bonus-exploiting culture that relies on the state to bail out failure."
And there, in a nutshell, is the nonsense of Labour's position laid bare. On the one hand they claim that private companies are fleecing taxpayers,that risk is not transferred, and that (in the most naive form of the argument) they are more expensive than public-sector organizations because they have to make profits. Then in the next breath they point to two companies where manifestly risk was transferred to shareholders and bondholders, and where the problem has been insufficiently profitable contracts.
Of course, in a party where economic illiteracy is a badge of honour, we shouldn't be too surprised. Jon Trickett is saying what Labour supporters want to hear. He'll do well, we just have to hope that this back-to-the-1970s nostalgia trip, forgetting all the lessons that have been learned over the years, never actually comes to fruition.0 -
Colin Crouch is 100% right in his comment - some companies are just good at knowing how to win a tender.
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Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.
And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.0 -
To partially correct myself, having seen the full clip, she does backpedal a little bit a minute later:Danny565 said:Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.
And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.
https://twitter.com/daily_politics/status/9608508487702773760 -
Yet we don't see JRM or Bill Cash saying similar re Soubry or Greening.Danny565 said:Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.
And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.
Tells me who the intolerant ones are.0 -
A Rees Mogg v Corbyn general election would be the most polarised ideologically and politically since 1983 when Thatcher faced Foot. That choice produced the SDP who formed a new pro EEC and centrist alliance with the Liberals, it is not impossible history could repeat itselfDanny565 said:Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.
And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.0 -
The most recent defectors from the Tory party were the hardcore Leavers who did their best to make Ed Miliband Prime Minister.TGOHF said:
Yet we don't see JRM or Bill Cash saying similar re Soubry or Greening.Danny565 said:Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.
And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.
Tells me who the intolerant ones are.0 -
Of course we have never even taken the transition controls on free movement from the new accession countries the EU allowed us in 2004 thanks to BlairEl_Capitano said:FPT:
Sure. I wouldn't claim that we would get the same exemption for the same reasons.John_M said:
Liechtenstein is the size of a pocket handkerchief and is mostly mountain. It's as populous as Bridgewater or Camberley. It can justify its exemption.El_Capitano said:
This solution already exists, of course, because Liechtenstein has it: EFTA membership without Freedom of Movement.FF43 said:
I think the EU could compromise on Freedom of Movement. It isn't an all or nothing thing. But the concessions would be limited and would come at a price. Freedom of Movement isn't mainly about visas. It's a requirement on member states to treat nationals of other member states in the same way as your nationals, without discrimination. So the UK would have to identify what kind of discrimination it might want to apply and to demonstrate it wouldn't have any effect on the Single Market and the level playing field.CarlottaVance said:Interesting question from Evan
https://twitter.com/EvanHD/status/960831454535090176
https://twitter.com/EvanHD/status/960832025245646849
But the point is that the EU is willing to countenance an exemption. We could claim different grounds for an exemption - island status, significantly anomalous economy compared to the EU as a whole, historic Commonwealth links, whatever. I wouldn't attempt to choose those grounds - way beyond my pay grade. But the Liechtenstein example shows that the EU can and would listen.
(Edit: sixth like UKIP)0 -
It would be far more polarised than Thatcher/Kinnock. I think you have to go back to the interwar period and the rise of the Labour Party.HYUFD said:
A Rees Mogg v Corbyn general election would be the most polarised ideologically and politically since 1983 when Thatcher faced Kinnock. That choice produced the SDP who formed a new pro EEC and centrist alliance with the Liberals, it is not impossible history could repeat itselfDanny565 said:Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.
And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.0 -
They don't need to say it because neither Soubry or Greening are likely to become leader.TGOHF said:
Yet we don't see JRM or Bill Cash saying similar re Soubry or Greening.Danny565 said:Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.
And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.
Tells me who the intolerant ones are.
The intolerance of the Brexiteers in the Conservative Party is well documented, and they have already traitorously seen off several party leaders.
So yes, JRM and Cash *are* the intolerant ones.0 -
I'd probably leave the party if JRM became leader, simply because it would mean that the Conservative Party had (as in the IDS days) given up on wanting to be a party of government.
If it were Boris I'd wait and see.0 -
Sorry, I meant Thatcher v Foot, now corrected. Thatcher was the right-wing choice for the Tory leadership, Foot the left-wing choice for the Labour leadershipAnorak said:
It would be far more polarised than Thatcher/Kinnock. I think you have to go back to the interwar period and the rise of the Labour Party.HYUFD said:
A Rees Mogg v Corbyn general election would be the most polarised ideologically and politically since 1983 when Thatcher faced Kinnock. That choice produced the SDP who formed a new pro EEC and centrist alliance with the Liberals, it is not impossible history could repeat itselfDanny565 said:Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.
And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.0 -
1983 was Maggie vs Foot, and the SDP formed years earlier.HYUFD said:
A Rees Mogg v Corbyn general election would be the most polarised ideologically and politically since 1983 when Thatcher faced Foot. That choice produced the SDP who formed a new pro EEC and centrist alliance with the Liberals, it is not impossible history could repeat itselfDanny565 said:Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.
And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.0 -
In a JRM v Corbyn election either could winRichard_Nabavi said:I'd probably leave the party if JRM became leader, simply because it would mean that the Conservative Party had (as in the IDS days) given up on wanting to be a party of government.
If it were Boris I'd wait and see.0 -
Either could lose, you mean.HYUFD said:
In a JRM v Corbyn election either could winRichard_Nabavi said:I'd probably leave the party if JRM became leader, simply because it would mean that the Conservative Party had (as in the IDS days) given up on wanting to be a party of government.
If it were Boris I'd wait and see.0 -
The Tory defectors before that were the hardcore Europhiles who did their bit to keep Tony Blair and Gordon Brown as Prime Minister.TheScreamingEagles said:
The most recent defectors from the Tory party were the hardcore Leavers who did their best to make Ed Miliband Prime Minister.TGOHF said:
Yet we don't see JRM or Bill Cash saying similar re Soubry or Greening.Danny565 said:Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.
And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.
Tells me who the intolerant ones are.
I know who my ire is reserved for.0 -
You mean IDS and the rebels in the 1992 who practically were the midwives to the Labour landslide.MarqueeMark said:
The Tory defectors before that were the hardcore Europhiles who did their bit to keep Tony Blair and Gordon Brown as Prime Minister.TheScreamingEagles said:
The most recent defectors from the Tory party were the hardcore Leavers who did their best to make Ed Miliband Prime Minister.TGOHF said:
Yet we don't see JRM or Bill Cash saying similar re Soubry or Greening.Danny565 said:Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.
And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.
Tells me who the intolerant ones are.
I know who my ire is reserved for.0 -
Are the Left going to have a meltdown tomorrow when the Today Programme special, focussing on the centenary of women getting the vote, announces Margaret Thatcher as the Woman of the Century?
Or will enough of them have held their nose and voted for Queen Eliabeth II to make the difference. Oh, the irony.....0 -
Really? Who were they? Shaun Woodward is the only defector can think of, and his defection had zero effect except to provide us with entertainment.MarqueeMark said:
The Tory defectors before that were the hardcore Europhiles who did their bit to keep Tony Blair and Gordon Brown as Prime Minister.TheScreamingEagles said:
The most recent defectors from the Tory party were the hardcore Leavers who did their best to make Ed Miliband Prime Minister.TGOHF said:
Yet we don't see JRM or Bill Cash saying similar re Soubry or Greening.Danny565 said:Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.
And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.
Tells me who the intolerant ones are.
I know who my ire is reserved for.0 -
You seem to have blanked out Shaun Woodward. You know, the Labour MP with a butler.... The one that allowed David Cameron to become an MP.TheScreamingEagles said:
You mean IDS and the rebels in the 1992 who practically were the midwives to the Labour landslide.MarqueeMark said:
The Tory defectors before that were the hardcore Europhiles who did their bit to keep Tony Blair and Gordon Brown as Prime Minister.TheScreamingEagles said:
The most recent defectors from the Tory party were the hardcore Leavers who did their best to make Ed Miliband Prime Minister.TGOHF said:
Yet we don't see JRM or Bill Cash saying similar re Soubry or Greening.Danny565 said:Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.
And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.
Tells me who the intolerant ones are.
I know who my ire is reserved for.
Whatever happened to that pair?0 -
If the presence of unsustainable pension deficits was a reason for not offering service contracts than surely the public sector would never be eligible to run an ice cream stand never mind a public service.0
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Absolutely.HYUFD said:
A Rees Mogg v Corbyn general election would be the most polarised ideologically and politically since 1983 when Thatcher faced Foot. That choice produced the SDP who formed a new pro EEC and centrist alliance with the Liberals, it is not impossible history could repeat itselfDanny565 said:Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.
And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.
I'd always been sceptical about the prospect of a new Alliance. Lib Dems + "new SDP" (i.e. Umunna et al) seemed to me to have little electoral appeal beyond the existing Lib Dems.
But a three-way Alliance of Lib Dems, Ummuna-ites and Soubryites? I can conceivably see that working.0 -
Shaun Woodward helped make David Cameron PM.Richard_Nabavi said:
Really? Who were they? Shaun Woodward is the only defector can think of, and his defection had zero effect except to provide us with entertainment.MarqueeMark said:
The Tory defectors before that were the hardcore Europhiles who did their bit to keep Tony Blair and Gordon Brown as Prime Minister.TheScreamingEagles said:
The most recent defectors from the Tory party were the hardcore Leavers who did their best to make Ed Miliband Prime Minister.TGOHF said:
Yet we don't see JRM or Bill Cash saying similar re Soubry or Greening.Danny565 said:Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.
And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.
Tells me who the intolerant ones are.
I know who my ire is reserved for.
Top bloke.
Other defectors of that era were Robert Jackson (over tuition fees) and Peter Temple Morris (who did in part over EU matters)
So only one in three defected over the EU.0 -
Shaun Woodward defected over Section 28.MarqueeMark said:
You seem to have blanked out Shaun Woodward. You know, the Labour MP with a butler.... The one that allowed David Cameron to become an MP.TheScreamingEagles said:
You mean IDS and the rebels in the 1992 who practically were the midwives to the Labour landslide.MarqueeMark said:
The Tory defectors before that were the hardcore Europhiles who did their bit to keep Tony Blair and Gordon Brown as Prime Minister.TheScreamingEagles said:
The most recent defectors from the Tory party were the hardcore Leavers who did their best to make Ed Miliband Prime Minister.TGOHF said:
Yet we don't see JRM or Bill Cash saying similar re Soubry or Greening.Danny565 said:Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.
And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.
Tells me who the intolerant ones are.
I know who my ire is reserved for.
Whatever happened to that pair?0 -
I haven't seen the clip, but my immediate thought was that (in the incredibly unlikely event that Justine Greening quit the Conservatives under JRM), it would be because of the conflict between her sexual orientation and JP2's views on homosexuality.TGOHF said:
Yet we don't see JRM or Bill Cash saying similar re Soubry or Greening.Danny565 said:Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.
And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.
Tells me who the intolerant ones are.0 -
Because any party they left for would likely be doomed to irrelevance - whereas, as Macron has demonstrated, centrists leaving for a centrist party might have a realistic chance of again being in government.TGOHF said:
Yet we don't see JRM or Bill Cash saying similar re Soubry or Greening.Danny565 said:Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.
And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.
Tells me who the intolerant ones are.
Nothing to do with tolerance, more to do with refusing to be taken for a ride.0 -
Disloyal, perhaps. Calling them "traitorous" is to descend to their level.JosiasJessop said:
They don't need to say it because neither Soubry or Greening are likely to become leader.TGOHF said:
Yet we don't see JRM or Bill Cash saying similar re Soubry or Greening.Danny565 said:Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.
And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.
Tells me who the intolerant ones are.
The intolerance of the Brexiteers in the Conservative Party is well documented, and they have already traitorously seen off several party leaders...0 -
Last seen in the US, according to Wikipedia.TheScreamingEagles said:
Shaun Woodward defected over Section 28.MarqueeMark said:
You seem to have blanked out Shaun Woodward. You know, the Labour MP with a butler.... The one that allowed David Cameron to become an MP.TheScreamingEagles said:
You mean IDS and the rebels in the 1992 who practically were the midwives to the Labour landslide.MarqueeMark said:
The Tory defectors before that were the hardcore Europhiles who did their bit to keep Tony Blair and Gordon Brown as Prime Minister.TheScreamingEagles said:
The most recent defectors from the Tory party were the hardcore Leavers who did their best to make Ed Miliband Prime Minister.TGOHF said:
Yet we don't see JRM or Bill Cash saying similar re Soubry or Greening.Danny565 said:Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.
And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.
Tells me who the intolerant ones are.
I know who my ire is reserved for.
Whatever happened to that pair?0 -
What’s JRM’s position on the Queen?
Given he takes his whip from Rome surely he considers everyone aWilliam of Orange onwards a Protestant usurper and that it is his job to win the Jacobite uprising ?0 -
On the other hand, three Conservative MPs defected to UKIP. (Remember Bob Spink?)MarqueeMark said:
You seem to have blanked out Shaun Woodward. You know, the Labour MP with a butler.... The one that allowed David Cameron to become an MP.TheScreamingEagles said:
You mean IDS and the rebels in the 1992 who practically were the midwives to the Labour landslide.MarqueeMark said:
The Tory defectors before that were the hardcore Europhiles who did their bit to keep Tony Blair and Gordon Brown as Prime Minister.TheScreamingEagles said:
The most recent defectors from the Tory party were the hardcore Leavers who did their best to make Ed Miliband Prime Minister.TGOHF said:
Yet we don't see JRM or Bill Cash saying similar re Soubry or Greening.Danny565 said:Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.
And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.
Tells me who the intolerant ones are.
I know who my ire is reserved for.
Whatever happened to that pair?0 -
Quite possibly and let us not forget the SDP Liberal Alliance got 25% of the vote in 1983, still the highest total for a third party since WW2El_Capitano said:
Absolutely.HYUFD said:
A Rees Mogg v Corbyn general election would be the most polarised ideologically and politically since 1983 when Thatcher faced Foot. That choice produced the SDP who formed a new pro EEC and centrist alliance with the Liberals, it is not impossible history could repeat itselfDanny565 said:Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.
And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.
I'd always been sceptical about the prospect of a new Alliance. Lib Dems + "new SDP" (i.e. Umunna et al) seemed to me to have little electoral appeal beyond the existing Lib Dems.
But a three-way Alliance of Lib Dems, Ummuna-ites and Soubryites? I can conceivably see that working.0 -
Also George Gardiner defected to the referendum party.rcs1000 said:
On the other hand, three Conservative MPs defected to UKIP. (Remember Bob Spink?)MarqueeMark said:
You seem to have blanked out Shaun Woodward. You know, the Labour MP with a butler.... The one that allowed David Cameron to become an MP.TheScreamingEagles said:
You mean IDS and the rebels in the 1992 who practically were the midwives to the Labour landslide.MarqueeMark said:
The Tory defectors before that were the hardcore Europhiles who did their bit to keep Tony Blair and Gordon Brown as Prime Minister.TheScreamingEagles said:
The most recent defectors from the Tory party were the hardcore Leavers who did their best to make Ed Miliband Prime Minister.TGOHF said:
Yet we don't see JRM or Bill Cash saying similar re Soubry or Greening.Danny565 said:Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.
And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.
Tells me who the intolerant ones are.
I know who my ire is reserved for.
Whatever happened to that pair?0 -
He still had a perfect Parliamentary voting record on supporting the Lisbon Treaty....TheScreamingEagles said:
Shaun Woodward defected over Section 28.MarqueeMark said:
You seem to have blanked out Shaun Woodward. You know, the Labour MP with a butler.... The one that allowed David Cameron to become an MP.TheScreamingEagles said:
You mean IDS and the rebels in the 1992 who practically were the midwives to the Labour landslide.MarqueeMark said:
The Tory defectors before that were the hardcore Europhiles who did their bit to keep Tony Blair and Gordon Brown as Prime Minister.TheScreamingEagles said:
The most recent defectors from the Tory party were the hardcore Leavers who did their best to make Ed Miliband Prime Minister.TGOHF said:
Yet we don't see JRM or Bill Cash saying similar re Soubry or Greening.Danny565 said:Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.
And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.
Tells me who the intolerant ones are.
I know who my ire is reserved for.
Whatever happened to that pair?0 -
One of the two would likely become PM thoughRichard_Nabavi said:
Either could lose, you mean.HYUFD said:
In a JRM v Corbyn election either could winRichard_Nabavi said:I'd probably leave the party if JRM became leader, simply because it would mean that the Conservative Party had (as in the IDS days) given up on wanting to be a party of government.
If it were Boris I'd wait and see.0 -
Living in Sag Harbor, no less! Where my family used to spend summersOldKingCole said:
Last seen in the US, according to Wikipedia.TheScreamingEagles said:
Shaun Woodward defected over Section 28.MarqueeMark said:
You seem to have blanked out Shaun Woodward. You know, the Labour MP with a butler.... The one that allowed David Cameron to become an MP.TheScreamingEagles said:
You mean IDS and the rebels in the 1992 who practically were the midwives to the Labour landslide.MarqueeMark said:
The Tory defectors before that were the hardcore Europhiles who did their bit to keep Tony Blair and Gordon Brown as Prime Minister.TheScreamingEagles said:
The most recent defectors from the Tory party were the hardcore Leavers who did their best to make Ed Miliband Prime Minister.TGOHF said:
Yet we don't see JRM or Bill Cash saying similar re Soubry or Greening.Danny565 said:Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.
And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.
Tells me who the intolerant ones are.
I know who my ire is reserved for.
Whatever happened to that pair?
0 -
Yes, briefly.HYUFD said:
One of the two would likely become PM thoughRichard_Nabavi said:
Either could lose, you mean.HYUFD said:
In a JRM v Corbyn election either could winRichard_Nabavi said:I'd probably leave the party if JRM became leader, simply because it would mean that the Conservative Party had (as in the IDS days) given up on wanting to be a party of government.
If it were Boris I'd wait and see.0 -
Foot was elected Labour leader in 1980 and Thatcher Tory leader in 1975 and the SDP formed in 1981 after both had been elected leader of the two main partiesFoxy said:
1983 was Maggie vs Foot, and the SDP formed years earlier.HYUFD said:
A Rees Mogg v Corbyn general election would be the most polarised ideologically and politically since 1983 when Thatcher faced Foot. That choice produced the SDP who formed a new pro EEC and centrist alliance with the Liberals, it is not impossible history could repeat itselfDanny565 said:Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.
And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.0 -
Currently the recipient of a six-month stretch, suspended for two years, for electoral fraud. Tricking people into signing UKIP nomination papers IIRC.rcs1000 said:
On the other hand, three Conservative MPs defected to UKIP. (Remember Bob Spink?)MarqueeMark said:
You seem to have blanked out Shaun Woodward. You know, the Labour MP with a butler.... The one that allowed David Cameron to become an MP.TheScreamingEagles said:
You mean IDS and the rebels in the 1992 who practically were the midwives to the Labour landslide.MarqueeMark said:
The Tory defectors before that were the hardcore Europhiles who did their bit to keep Tony Blair and Gordon Brown as Prime Minister.TheScreamingEagles said:
The most recent defectors from the Tory party were the hardcore Leavers who did their best to make Ed Miliband Prime Minister.TGOHF said:
Yet we don't see JRM or Bill Cash saying similar re Soubry or Greening.Danny565 said:Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.
And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.
Tells me who the intolerant ones are.
I know who my ire is reserved for.
Whatever happened to that pair?0 -
Talking of defections, who can remember the curious one of Quentin Davies? I never figured that one out.0
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He was pissed off Dave wouldn’t give him a job.Stark_Dawning said:Talking of defections, who can remember the curious one of Quentin Davies? I never figured that one out.
Plus he thought Gordon Brown was going to win the next general election, be it a snap election or the 2009/10 one.0 -
Ms Davison was found guilty of placing a "dangerous substance likely to injure" in a post office letter box outside Parliament and sentenced to six months in Holloway Prison
Labour leader Mr Corbyn said his party would give pardons if it came to power as convictions of suffragettes were "politically motivated and bore no relation to the acts committed".
He really is a pillock. Using that logic all IRA terrorists should be pardoned.0 -
Yeah, I'm just using it as a joke, since it is a word leavers love to throw around and is now apparently part of legitimate political discourse.Nigelb said:
Disloyal, perhaps. Calling them "traitorous" is to descend to their level.JosiasJessop said:
They don't need to say it because neither Soubry or Greening are likely to become leader.TGOHF said:
Yet we don't see JRM or Bill Cash saying similar re Soubry or Greening.Danny565 said:Justine Greening has said it would be "a stretch" to stay in the Tories if Jacob Rees-Mogg becomes leader.
And this is how the government potentially falls / a new election is triggered long before 2022.
Tells me who the intolerant ones are.
The intolerance of the Brexiteers in the Conservative Party is well documented, and they have already traitorously seen off several party leaders...
Although my anger against the cabal who acted against Major has never really abated. They went way beyond disloyalty, both to the party and the country.0 -
Don't give him ideas.FrancisUrquhart said:Labour leader Mr Corbyn said his party would give pardons if it came to power as convictions of suffragettes were "politically motivated and bore no relation to the acts committed".
He really is a pillock. Using that logic all IRA terrorists should be pardoned.0 -
Indeed. I think it is right to recognize their struggle, sacrifice and achievements. It is wrong that they had to use such extreme methods to achieve their aims but such was the world at that time. But it would be wrong to give legitimacy to criminal activity by issuing a blanket pardon just to appear ''right on'FrancisUrquhart said:Labour leader Mr Corbyn said his party would give pardons if it came to power as convictions of suffragettes were "politically motivated and bore no relation to the acts committed".
He really is a pillock. Using that logic all IRA terrorists should be pardoned.0 -
Is there a Stuart candidate knocking around - wasnt there one in Oz? Should really hop back to the Plantagenets anyway as the Tudors had stuff all claim.TheScreamingEagles said:What’s JRM’s position on the Queen?
Given he takes his whip from Rome surely he considers everyone aWilliam of Orange onwards a Protestant usurper and that it is his job to win the Jacobite uprising ?0 -
With some of these MPs, I do wonder if part of it is a realisation their career is not going to get too much further, and they want to create a little footnote in history. After all, we're talking of Davies now, when many other of his cohort of MPs are more or less forgotten.TheScreamingEagles said:
He was pissed off Dave wouldn’t give him a job.Stark_Dawning said:Talking of defections, who can remember the curious one of Quentin Davies? I never figured that one out.
Plus he thought Gordon Brown was going to win the next general election, be it a snap election or the 2009/10 one.
See also, Louise Mensch.0 -
He would use that logic.FrancisUrquhart said:Ms Davison was found guilty of placing a "dangerous substance likely to injure" in a post office letter box outside Parliament and sentenced to six months in Holloway Prison
Labour leader Mr Corbyn said his party would give pardons if it came to power as convictions of suffragettes were "politically motivated and bore no relation to the acts committed".
He really is a pillock. Using that logic all IRA terrorists should be pardoned.
I think it would be wrong to pardon people who resorted to violence to achieve a political aim, when peaceful methods of campaigning were available to them.
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Christ! Don't give him ideas.FrancisUrquhart said:Ms Davison was found guilty of placing a "dangerous substance likely to injure" in a post office letter box outside Parliament and sentenced to six months in Holloway Prison
Labour leader Mr Corbyn said his party would give pardons if it came to power as convictions of suffragettes were "politically motivated and bore no relation to the acts committed".
He really is a pillock. Using that logic all IRA terrorists should be pardoned.0 -
Where's JackW, the expert on all things Jacobite?rawzer said:
Is there a Stuart candidate knocking around - wasnt there one in Oz? Should really hop back to the Plantagenets anyway as the Tudors had stuff all claim.TheScreamingEagles said:What’s JRM’s position on the Queen?
Given he takes his whip from Rome surely he considers everyone aWilliam of Orange onwards a Protestant usurper and that it is his job to win the Jacobite uprising ?0 -
In retrospect John Smith playing party political games over Maastricht did so much damage to the fabric of our politics. The Tory rebels of the time were principled, but given way too much prominence which allowed them to hold the party to ransom throughout the Blair era.JosiasJessop said:Although my anger against the cabal who acted against Major has never really abated. They went way beyond disloyalty, both to the party and the country.
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The thread is an interesting one. How to deliver efficient and high quality public services without wasting taxpayers' money is very important.
I have no idea whether Trickett is the man for the job. He may well be if he has experience of running a council.
But I have very little confidence in Corbyn/McDonnell on this since they start and end with the assumption that all public services must be delivered by the public sector, regardless of any other consideration.
So efficiency and value for money and high quality don't seem to come into it.
Until both parties can move on from public good/private bad (Labour) or public bad/private good (Tories), there will be no sensible answer to this question.0 -
It would be daft not least because the suffragettes deliberately broke laws as a form of protest, pardoning them invalidates them:oxfordsimon said:
Indeed. I think it is right to recognize their struggle, sacrifice and achievements. It is wrong that they had to use such extreme methods to achieve their aims but such was the world at that time. But it would be wrong to give legitimacy to criminal activity by issuing a blanket pardon just to appear ''right on'FrancisUrquhart said:Labour leader Mr Corbyn said his party would give pardons if it came to power as convictions of suffragettes were "politically motivated and bore no relation to the acts committed".
He really is a pillock. Using that logic all IRA terrorists should be pardoned.
https://twitter.com/CCriadoPerez/status/9607913285137571840 -
Query: don't the detailed ICM tables show a 1-point Labour lead (somewhat more until certainty to vote is tested), rather than a 1-point Tory lead as reported on the last thread?
https://www.icmunlimited.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/ICM-Guardian-05thFeb18-BPC.pdf
All MOE but we may as well get it right.
Good to see they've included the "Are you on the electoral register?" question.0 -
Yeah, i think we have to be very very careful here. A comparison might be with for example Animal Rights Activists. Would they be 'allowed' the same leeway on the basis that animals can't act for themselves or have access to the policical process, so acts of vandalism and other crimal activity is legitimised on the basis they are are 'morally right'?oxfordsimon said:
Indeed. I think it is right to recognize their struggle, sacrifice and achievements. It is wrong that they had to use such extreme methods to achieve their aims but such was the world at that time. But it would be wrong to give legitimacy to criminal activity by issuing a blanket pardon just to appear ''right on'FrancisUrquhart said:Labour leader Mr Corbyn said his party would give pardons if it came to power as convictions of suffragettes were "politically motivated and bore no relation to the acts committed".
He really is a pillock. Using that logic all IRA terrorists should be pardoned.0 -
FPT
CarlottaVance said:
Another straw falls away:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/06/bid-for-legal-ruling-on-whether-uk-can-unilaterally-abandon-brexit-fails
I said:
Interesting. The full judgment is here: https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/docs/default-source/cos-general-docs/pdf-docs-for-opinions/2018csoh8.pdf?sfvrsn=0
What is clear is that all the extra hurdles that those opposed to Brexit have forced the government to jump are now coming back to bite them. Parliament legislated for the issuing of the Article 50 notice and approved its service. That is the government's policy so there is no basis for dealing with the hypothetical question of what happens if the government changes its mind.
Must say that I expected this to go to a fuller hearing but it appears from the Judgment that there has been a fairly substantial hearing already0 -
Do they need leave to appeal, and will they get it?DavidL said:FPT
CarlottaVance said:
Another straw falls away:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/06/bid-for-legal-ruling-on-whether-uk-can-unilaterally-abandon-brexit-fails
I said:
Interesting. The full judgment is here: https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/docs/default-source/cos-general-docs/pdf-docs-for-opinions/2018csoh8.pdf?sfvrsn=0
What is clear is that all the extra hurdles that those opposed to Brexit have forced the government to jump are now coming back to bite them. Parliament legislated for the issuing of the Article 50 notice and approved its service. That is the government's policy so there is no basis for dealing with the hypothetical question of what happens if the government changes its mind.
Must say that I expected this to go to a fuller hearing but it appears from the Judgment that there has been a fairly substantial hearing already0 -
That's before the "squeeze" question.NickPalmer said:Query: don't the detailed ICM tables show a 1-point Labour lead (somewhat more until certainty to vote is tested), rather than a 1-point Tory lead as reported on the last thread?
https://www.icmunlimited.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/ICM-Guardian-05thFeb18-BPC.pdf
All MOE but we may as well get it right.
Good to see they've included the "Are you on the electoral register?" question.0 -
No. It is a 1% Tory lead, see table 5.NickPalmer said:Query: don't the detailed ICM tables show a 1-point Labour lead (somewhat more until certainty to vote is tested), rather than a 1-point Tory lead as reported on the last thread?
https://www.icmunlimited.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/ICM-Guardian-05thFeb18-BPC.pdf
All MOE but we may as well get it right.
Good to see they've included the "Are you on the electoral register?" question.
ICM have always used the figures once the spiral of silence adjustment has been applied.0 -
Scott posting increasingly bewildering and not credible tweets from the arch-Europhile Dunt is indicative of the desperation of some remainers on here.
Nobody cares outside you and Mr Dunt.
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I see Britain First are coming to Jacob Rees-Mogg’s aid
He and the Tories need to deal with the elan Boris displayed when the BNP endorsed him or it’ll get messy.0 -
For various reasons I have been listening to radio news programmes more than normal in the last few days. I can sum up what I have learnt, as follows:-
1. The Tories are an absolute fucking shambles. An absolute shower. Of shits, incompetents and Brexit-obsessed loons
2. Labour are an absolute fucking shambles: of extreme left ex-Militants with interesting views about some minorities, cowed MPs and a leadership largely silent on key issues.
3. The Lib Dems may well also be an absolute fucking shambles but since no-one has heard or seen them for months it is impossible to tell.
4. UKIP would also be an absolute shambles but is now in reality one middle-aged man fucking for Britain, or something.
5. Brexit is an absolute FUBAR and Britain is playing the role of the first Mrs Rochester in the attic, as far as the rest of Europe is concerned
Have I missed anything?
(Oh and apologies for the terrible language.)0 -
Fascinating analysis of the sea change in the social media landscape since the referendum.
https://twitter.com/cronycle/status/9608637006337720320 -
You really should give radio daily mirror ie R5 a miss...It's as bad for your health as smoking and drinking.Cyclefree said:For various reasons I have been listening to radio news programmes more than normal in the last few days. I can sum up what I have learnt, as follows:-
1. The Tories are an absolute fucking shambles. An absolute shower. Of shits, incompetents and Brexit-obsessed loons
2. Labour are an absolute fucking shambles: of extreme left ex-Militants with interesting views about some minorities, cowed MPs and a leadership largely silent on key issues.
3. The Lib Dems may well also be an absolute fucking shambles but since no-one has heard or seen them for months it is impossible to tell.
4. UKIP would also be an absolute shambles but is now in reality one middle-aged man fucking for Britain, or something.
5. Brexit is an absolute FUBAR and Britain is playing the role of the first Mrs Rochester in the attic, as far as the rest of Europe is concerned
Have I missed anything?
(Oh and apologies for the terrible language.)0 -
Can he do better than a weak and wimpy 'but but, May did it first...waaaaaaaaaaaa'?Scott_P said:0 -
Lawyers for President Trump have advised him against sitting down for a wide-ranging interview with the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, according to four people briefed on the matter, raising the specter of a monthslong court battle over whether the president must answer questions under oath.
His lawyers are concerned that the president, who has a history of making false statements and contradicting himself, could be charged with lying to investigators. Their stance puts them at odds with Mr. Trump, who has said publicly and privately that he is eager to speak with Mr. Mueller as part of the investigation into possible ties between his associates and Russia’s election interference, and whether he obstructed justice.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/05/us/politics/trump-lawyers-special-counsel-interview.html0 -
Good to hear that Labour has the right man for the job.
And of course the general election victory in 2022 of a 73 year old Marxist who is leader of the only opposition in history to have won an election without being 15 points or more ahead in the polls is all in the bag isnt it?0 -
That's what happens in culture wars, all the cretins on both sides crawl out of the woodwork when there's a fake fight to be had.TheScreamingEagles said:I see Britain First are coming to Jacob Rees-Mogg’s aid
He and the Tories need to deal with the elan Boris displayed when the BNP endorsed him or it’ll get messy.0 -
Being trumps lawyer must be an absolute fucking nightmare.TheScreamingEagles said:Lawyers for President Trump have advised him against sitting down for a wide-ranging interview with the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, according to four people briefed on the matter, raising the specter of a monthslong court battle over whether the president must answer questions under oath.
His lawyers are concerned that the president, who has a history of making false statements and contradicting himself, could be charged with lying to investigators. Their stance puts them at odds with Mr. Trump, who has said publicly and privately that he is eager to speak with Mr. Mueller as part of the investigation into possible ties between his associates and Russia’s election interference, and whether he obstructed justice.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/05/us/politics/trump-lawyers-special-counsel-interview.html0 -
People tend to be quieter when things are going their way.williamglenn said:Fascinating analysis of the sea change in the social media landscape since the referendum.
https://twitter.com/cronycle/status/9608637006337720320 -
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I think it's well established that Twitter is very unrepresentative of public opinion.williamglenn said:Fascinating analysis of the sea change in the social media landscape since the referendum.
https://twitter.com/cronycle/status/9608637006337720320 -
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They don't have a proper right of appeal. Under our new procedures for JR they have the right to have the decision reviewed by another Lord Ordinary who can decide that the case has some prospects of success and should be allowed to proceed. As Lord Docherty says, that is not a high test but he thinks the applicants are well short.Richard_Nabavi said:
Do they need leave to appeal, and will they get it?DavidL said:FPT
CarlottaVance said:
Another straw falls away:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/06/bid-for-legal-ruling-on-whether-uk-can-unilaterally-abandon-brexit-fails
I said:
Interesting. The full judgment is here: https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/docs/default-source/cos-general-docs/pdf-docs-for-opinions/2018csoh8.pdf?sfvrsn=0
What is clear is that all the extra hurdles that those opposed to Brexit have forced the government to jump are now coming back to bite them. Parliament legislated for the issuing of the Article 50 notice and approved its service. That is the government's policy so there is no basis for dealing with the hypothetical question of what happens if the government changes its mind.
Must say that I expected this to go to a fuller hearing but it appears from the Judgment that there has been a fairly substantial hearing already
I think that a successful review very unlikely in this case. Lord Docherty is well respected, he has, somewhat unusually, had a full hearing with both parties and indeed written answers from HMG before coming to a view and it is unlikely that any second judge will repeat that exercise.0 -
Theresa May has denounced citizens of nowhere. She has been silent when the tabloids accused judges of being enemies of the people. She has used EU citizens as bargaining chips. She has been complicit in talk of saboteurs.
How dare she talk about the tone of bitterness and aggression in the public debate?0 -
The tactful joys of gently suggesting that your own client is a liar and not even particularly good at it. We have all been there.TheScreamingEagles said:Lawyers for President Trump have advised him against sitting down for a wide-ranging interview with the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, according to four people briefed on the matter, raising the specter of a monthslong court battle over whether the president must answer questions under oath.
His lawyers are concerned that the president, who has a history of making false statements and contradicting himself, could be charged with lying to investigators. Their stance puts them at odds with Mr. Trump, who has said publicly and privately that he is eager to speak with Mr. Mueller as part of the investigation into possible ties between his associates and Russia’s election interference, and whether he obstructed justice.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/05/us/politics/trump-lawyers-special-counsel-interview.html0 -
The value of Bitcoin has fallen to below $6,000 - its lowest price since November 2017.
I hope all those late to the party that bought at $15k+ didn't put too much of their net worth into BTC.0 -
No, but that doesn't mean it's meaningless or cannot be a leading indicator in certain circumstances. Before the referendum, pro-Brexit activity was dominant, and that's completely reversed.Sean_F said:
I think it's well established that Twitter is very unrepresentative of public opinion.williamglenn said:Fascinating analysis of the sea change in the social media landscape since the referendum.
https://twitter.com/cronycle/status/9608637006337720320 -
At some point the fruitcake fascists who have taken over the Labour Party which I supported for 40 years will turn on the people whom they now idolise and worship as their Messiahs. Beware Mr Corbyn: revolutions always devour their own children.0
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Sadly, the situation merits the language.Cyclefree said:(Oh and apologies for the terrible language.)
I wonder the next stage in the progression is? SNAFU, FUBAR, .... BREXIT????
I have come to the conclusion that UK politicians are no longer fit for purpose, so it might actually be better for us to be governed by Brussels and push for the USoE.0 -
I'll put you down as undecided about herAlastairMeeks said:Theresa May has denounced citizens of nowhere. She has been silent when the tabloids accused judges of being enemies of the people. She has used EU citizens as bargaining chips. She has been complicit in talk of saboteurs.
How dare she talk about the tone of bitterness and aggression in the public debate? 0 -
.-1
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And what has Jeremy Corbyn been silent about?Pulpstar said:
I'll put you down as undecided about herAlastairMeeks said:Theresa May has denounced citizens of nowhere. She has been silent when the tabloids accused judges of being enemies of the people. She has used EU citizens as bargaining chips. She has been complicit in talk of saboteurs.
How dare she talk about the tone of bitterness and aggression in the public debate?0 -
I have an interest in reading this site. If people want to know the deranged views of Mr Dunt they can search out his special interest site.Scott_P said:
Clearly you care enough to claim nobody cares...TGOHF said:Nobody cares outside you and Mr Dunt.
Pasting a tweet by a politician or a serious commentator occasionally can be of interest but you are turning into a SJW version of Plato.0 -
She's better than some of the alternatives. I will also credit her with good powers of analysis and a genuine sense of duty. But she is nowhere near up to the job.Pulpstar said:
I'll put you down as undecided about herAlastairMeeks said:Theresa May has denounced citizens of nowhere. She has been silent when the tabloids accused judges of being enemies of the people. She has used EU citizens as bargaining chips. She has been complicit in talk of saboteurs.
How dare she talk about the tone of bitterness and aggression in the public debate?0 -
@malcolmg will go off in a sulk if you don't include the North Britain parties in your keen assessment.Cyclefree said:For various reasons I have been listening to radio news programmes more than normal in the last few days. I can sum up what I have learnt, as follows:-
1. The Tories are an absolute fucking shambles. An absolute shower. Of shits, incompetents and Brexit-obsessed loons
2. Labour are an absolute fucking shambles: of extreme left ex-Militants with interesting views about some minorities, cowed MPs and a leadership largely silent on key issues.
3. The Lib Dems may well also be an absolute fucking shambles but since no-one has heard or seen them for months it is impossible to tell.
4. UKIP would also be an absolute shambles but is now in reality one middle-aged man fucking for Britain, or something.
5. Brexit is an absolute FUBAR and Britain is playing the role of the first Mrs Rochester in the attic, as far as the rest of Europe is concerned
Have I missed anything?
(Oh and apologies for the terrible language.)0 -
And of course no one is trying to "sabotage" Brexit.AlastairMeeks said:Theresa May has denounced citizens of nowhere. She has been silent when the tabloids accused judges of being enemies of the people. She has used EU citizens as bargaining chips. She has been complicit in talk of saboteurs.
How dare she talk about the tone of bitterness and aggression in the public debate?
Are they?0 -
You keep repeating this. Have you actually read the speech in which she used the phrase?AlastairMeeks said:Theresa May has denounced citizens of nowhere.
we also value something else: the spirit of citizenship.
That spirit that means you respect the bonds and obligations that make our society work. That means a commitment to the men and women who live around you, who work for you, who buy the goods and services you sell.
That spirit that means recognising the social contract that says you train up local young people before you take on cheap labour from overseas.
That spirit that means you do as others do, and pay your fair share of tax.
But today, too many people in positions of power behave as though they have more in common with international elites than with the people down the road, the people they employ, the people they pass in the street.
But if you believe you’re a citizen of the world, you’re a citizen of nowhere. You don’t understand what the very word ‘citizenship’ means.
So if you’re a boss who earns a fortune but doesn’t look after your staff…
An international company that treats tax laws as an optional extra…
A household name that refuses to work with the authorities even to fight terrorism…
A director who takes out massive dividends while knowing that the company pension is about to go bust…
I’m putting you on warning. This can’t go on anymore.
A change has got to come. And this party – the Conservative Party – is going to make that change.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/05/theresa-mays-conference-speech-in-full/
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It's worth pausing on that for a second. Bitcoin is the same price it was 10 weeks ago. If the price hadn't moved between November and now, would anyone be getting all excited?FrancisUrquhart said:The value of Bitcoin has fallen to below $6,000 - its lowest price since November 2017.
I hope all those late to the party that bought at $15k+ didn't put too much of their net worth into BTC.
Its absurd volatility: from $6,000 to $19,000 to $6,000 demonstrates the extent to which Bitcoin stopped being what it was meant to be (a cheap decentralised and largely anonymous payment network), and became a trading chip.
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But how long until the USofE is headed up by a Trump like clone?Beverley_C said:.
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Excellent....go Cycle.....I could not have written a better post myself......Cyclefree said:For various reasons I have been listening to radio news programmes more than normal in the last few days. I can sum up what I have learnt, as follows:-
1. The Tories are an absolute fucking shambles. An absolute shower. Of shits, incompetents and Brexit-obsessed loons
2. Labour are an absolute fucking shambles: of extreme left ex-Militants with interesting views about some minorities, cowed MPs and a leadership largely silent on key issues.
3. The Lib Dems may well also be an absolute fucking shambles but since no-one has heard or seen them for months it is impossible to tell.
4. UKIP would also be an absolute shambles but is now in reality one middle-aged man fucking for Britain, or something.
5. Brexit is an absolute FUBAR and Britain is playing the role of the first Mrs Rochester in the attic, as far as the rest of Europe is concerned
Have I missed anything?
(Oh and apologies for the terrible language.)
The only redeeming thing about UK politics 2018 is that across the pond their's is actually much worse than ours.
I love a bit of profanity in the afternoon btw, especially when it is so well articulated....
0
