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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » There’s a good case for the man with NHS lapel badge
Clearly the overnight news about the possibility of a move against Theresa May has led to speculation about who would replace her. The Etonian pair of Rees-Mogg and Johnson remain top in the betting but I wonder whether they will be able to get the backing of enough MPs to make it to the postal vote stage.
Comments
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Yup.0
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He’d make a very good PM and Party Leader.0
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He's about the only person I can think of who would definitely be an improvement.0
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It's a consumer protection disaster, it's going to have to come under scrutiny of one kind or another.Scott_P said:0 -
TheWhiteRabbit said:
It's a consumer protection disaster, it's going to have to come under scrutiny of one kind or another.Scott_P said:
It's a minority interest. The proverbial transwoman in the Clapham Uber cab doesn't give two hoots about cryptocurrencies. We need May's government to focus on the NHS and housing.TheWhiteRabbit said:
It's a consumer protection disaster, it's going to have to come under scrutiny of one kind or another.Scott_P said:0 -
The left despise Hunt and he would drive up Labour turnout while he fails to enthuse the pro Brexit right as much as Boris, Mogg or even Davis, Hinds and Williamson would so no Hunt is unlikely to be the next leader. Of the former Remainers I would even say Rudd is more likely to get to the final two than Hunt especially given Hunt's belated conversion to Leave and the fact the left are less hostile to her.0
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It already is.TheWhiteRabbit said:
It's a consumer protection disaster, it's going to have to come under scrutiny of one kind or another.Scott_P said:
Some banks are already refusing to accept the proceeds of sales of Bitcoins precisely because of the money laundering risk.
And from today at Davos (according to Bloomberg):
IMF Wary of Cryptocurrencies (12:09 p.m.)
The International Monetary Fund is aware there will be innovations but believes crypto-anonimity and its use to conceal illicit trades such as terror financing and money laundering is “unacceptable,” Managing Director Christine Lagarde said during a discussion panel.
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John_M said:TheWhiteRabbit said:
It's a consumer protection disaster, it's going to have to come under scrutiny of one kind or another.Scott_P said:
It's a minority interest. The proverbial transwoman in the Clapham Uber cab doesn't give two hoots about cryptocurrencies. We need May's government to focus on the NHS and housing.TheWhiteRabbit said:
It's a consumer protection disaster, it's going to have to come under scrutiny of one kind or another.Scott_P said:
https://twitter.com/JGForsyth/status/9565019287788380160 -
Are Sky News trying to tell us something about May? I'm also not sure why CCHQ retweeted it
https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/9565156868801822720 -
I'm not say the PM should personally chair a taskforce that meets every Tuesday!John_M said:TheWhiteRabbit said:
It's a consumer protection disaster, it's going to have to come under scrutiny of one kind or another.Scott_P said:
It's a minority interest. The proverbial transwoman in the Clapham Uber cab doesn't give two hoots about cryptocurrencies. We need May's government to focus on the NHS and housing.TheWhiteRabbit said:
It's a consumer protection disaster, it's going to have to come under scrutiny of one kind or another.Scott_P said:
It should be on the PRA or FCA's radar with government support where necessary.
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Is she trolling us with the costume choices? Star Trek yesterday, Game of Thrones today.Scott_P said:0 -
In the future there are hopes for more advanced features such as a debate mode and even talk of a revolutionary empathy module. The landslide model should be available for purchase within a couple of decades.JonathanD said:Are Sky News trying to tell us something about May? I'm also not sure why CCHQ retweeted it
https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/9565156868801822720 -
And presumably the first thing PM Hunt would do is increase the NHS budget? Neatly finessing Boris's concerns and his own negatives.0
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I'm not certain what diagnosed political problem the Conservatives have that would be improved by Jeremy Hunt. Yes he's stuck the Health brief for a while but one wonders whether that's simply because nobody else is willing to go anywhere near it. I'm not sure that he comes across as well as he ought, plus he has an unfortunate resting smug face.0
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TheJezziah said:
In the future there are hopes for more advanced features such as a debate mode and even talk of a revolutionary empathy module. The landslide model should be available for purchase within a couple of decades.JonathanD said:Are Sky News trying to tell us something about May? I'm also not sure why CCHQ retweeted it
https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/956515686880182272
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It was in the Sun. Thats the clue.
There wont be a move against Theresa May in the short term. Anymore than as the Express says today that eating curry protects you from dementia.
In the medium to long term ....Jeremy Hunt? Really?
He's not a good performer. He's a boring speaker. He looks like a startled in the headlamps rabbit. He sweats under pressure. And he is associated with old ladies dying on hospital trollies. Some have interpreted his previous writings as his being against the principle of the NHS.
And his name rhymes with a word which young Corbynistas would love to write a rival Oh jeremy Corbyn song to.
Is there really a serious argument for Jeremy Hunt?0 -
A lot of sensible Tories like him.stevef said:It was in the Sun. Thats the clue.
There wont be a move against Theresa May in the short term. Anymore than as the Express says today that eating curry protects you from dementia.
In the medium to long term ....Jeremy Hunt? Really?
He's not a good performer. He's a boring speaker. He looks like a startled in the headlamps rabbit. He sweats under pressure. And he is associated with old ladies dying on hospital trollies. Some have interpreted his previous writings as his being against the principle of the NHS.
And his name rhymes with a word which young Corbynistas would love to write a rival Oh jeremy Corbyn song to.
Is there really a serious argument for Jeremy Hunt?0 -
Can someone please explain to me what qualities Hunt has (with regards to potential public appeal) that May doesn't have?
Does he "look the part" of a PM more? Is he more media-friendly than she is? * Is he more charismatic or inspiring? Does he have a substantially different view to May on all the various policy areas the Tories got slaughtered on in 2017? Who exactly are the voters he would win over that May failed to?
(* I can imagine his blinky eyes being the equivalent of May's "gurning" tic)0 -
Better for them to be associated with reintroducing beavers than slaughtering foxes and badgers.JonathanD said:John_M said:TheWhiteRabbit said:
It's a consumer protection disaster, it's going to have to come under scrutiny of one kind or another.Scott_P said:
It's a minority interest. The proverbial transwoman in the Clapham Uber cab doesn't give two hoots about cryptocurrencies. We need May's government to focus on the NHS and housing.TheWhiteRabbit said:
It's a consumer protection disaster, it's going to have to come under scrutiny of one kind or another.Scott_P said:
https://twitter.com/JGForsyth/status/956501928778838016
I'm sure that TSE will be along in a moment in full Finbarr Saunders mode regarding beavers.0 -
On the basis of what I've just said, its not very sensible is it? Where's the sense in making someone leader who isnt a good speaker, is boring, has no discernible sense of humour, no wit, sweats under pressure, is associated with NHS cuts, and has a name which Corbynistas will exploit to chant as a slogan song at the election?TOPPING said:
A lot of sensible Tories like him.stevef said:It was in the Sun. Thats the clue.
There wont be a move against Theresa May in the short term. Anymore than as the Express says today that eating curry protects you from dementia.
In the medium to long term ....Jeremy Hunt? Really?
He's not a good performer. He's a boring speaker. He looks like a startled in the headlamps rabbit. He sweats under pressure. And he is associated with old ladies dying on hospital trollies. Some have interpreted his previous writings as his being against the principle of the NHS.
And his name rhymes with a word which young Corbynistas would love to write a rival Oh jeremy Corbyn song to.
Is there really a serious argument for Jeremy Hunt?0 -
Lots of us are rooting for Jeremy Hunt.
Michael Gove wouldn't be a bad choice either.
Further suitable names can be supplied.0 -
She just had it stuffed?JonathanD said:John_M said:TheWhiteRabbit said:
It's a consumer protection disaster, it's going to have to come under scrutiny of one kind or another.Scott_P said:
It's a minority interest. The proverbial transwoman in the Clapham Uber cab doesn't give two hoots about cryptocurrencies. We need May's government to focus on the NHS and housing.TheWhiteRabbit said:
It's a consumer protection disaster, it's going to have to come under scrutiny of one kind or another.Scott_P said:
https://twitter.com/JGForsyth/status/956501928778838016
/Naked Gun0 -
LOLTheJezziah said:
In the future there are hopes for more advanced features such as a debate mode and even talk of a revolutionary empathy module. The landslide model should be available for purchase within a couple of decades.JonathanD said:Are Sky News trying to tell us something about May? I'm also not sure why CCHQ retweeted it
https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/9565156868801822720 -
From his CV:Danny565 said:Can someone please explain to me what qualities Hunt has (with regards to potential public appeal) that May doesn't have?
Does he "look the part" of a PM more? Is he more media-friendly than she is? * Is he more charismatic or inspiring? Does he have a substantially different view to May on all the various policy areas the Tories got slaughtered on in 2017? Who exactly are the voters he would win over that May failed to?
(* I can imagine his blinky eyes being the equivalent of May's "gurning" tic)
"Jerry Hunt's is a magical world
Full of strippers and long-legged girls
Clark Kent's got nothing on me
I'll spy like James Bond and die like King Kong
No one pushes Jerry Hunt around
Well, they do, but not for long
When I get fit and grow bionic arms
The whole world's gonna wish it weren't born
I could be a superman
Satisfy any whim that I wanted to
I could be a human machine
I could show Steve Austin a thing or two"
Clearly prime-ministerial qualities, I think we can all agree.0 -
Hunt is surely every mother's ideal son-in-law - handsome, well groomed, polite, nicely spoken and successful, and thus ideally placed to counter Corbyn's favourite-uncle persona. And, unlike with the hard-Brexit mania of Boris and Rees-Mogg, he has also steered a moderate course through the Brexit issue. Hunt could seize the unifying centre ground that Theresa blithely abandoned. The Tories should anoint.0
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Incidentally, Jeremy Hunt is very dangerous for many on the left because they start from the viewpoint that he's obviously appalling and don't feel the need to explain that to the unconvinced. You can see some of that on this thread already.
He's fluent, doesn't shy away from fights or from the media, he's not abrasive and he presents things plausibly. The public would give him a fair crack of the whip and I expect that like Theresa May he might get rather a long honeymoon in which to establish himself.
Whether he has any kind of vision, however, is completely unknown at present.0 -
Indeed. Large crowds at rallies singing "Oh Jeremy *unt" might not be the vote-winner some seem to think.AlastairMeeks said:Incidentally, Jeremy Hunt is very dangerous for many on the left because they start from the viewpoint that he's obviously appalling and don't feel the need to explain that to the unconvinced. You can see some of that on this thread already.
He's fluent, doesn't shy away from fights or from the media, he's not abrasive and he presents things plausibly. The public would give him a fair crack of the whip and I expect that like Theresa May he might get rather a long honeymoon in which to establish himself.
Whether he has any kind of vision, however, is completely unknown at present.0 -
On topic, I agree with Mike. Certainly at 16/1.0
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I think that's a very good observation.AlastairMeeks said:Incidentally, Jeremy Hunt is very dangerous for many on the left because they start from the viewpoint that he's obviously appalling and don't feel the need to explain that to the unconvinced. You can see some of that on this thread already.
He's fluent, doesn't shy away from fights or from the media, he's not abrasive and he presents things plausibly. The public would give him a fair crack of the whip and I expect that like Theresa May he might get rather a long honeymoon in which to establish himself.
Whether he has any kind of vision, however, is completely unknown at present.
On the vision thing, it's always hard to assess in advance of someone becoming leader, but he's certainly sharp and very political, which might be enough anyway.0 -
I think Hunt would be a much better media performer than May (talk about damning with faint praise), would present a clearer vision of what the government was for (I accept any vision at all would achieve that) and sound more in touch with the country's issues (ditto).
The question is whether he could hold together what would still be a minority administration which means all the factions need to be assuaged and on board. That is tricky. May survives because there in no clear answer to that in respect of any of the potential candidates. But paralysis is only a short term solution and time has been moving on for some time now.
Where the hell is the housebuilding program; the northern infrastructure program; the spades in the ground at Heathrow; the sense of urgency in respect of the NHS winter crisis (even Boris got that one) and the overarching vision of how we are going to operate after Brexit? It's bordering on tragic.0 -
This rings true and is somewhat relevant to the topic
https://twitter.com/philipstephens/status/9563926886051921930 -
Welcome to minority government.DavidL said:...
Where the hell is the housebuilding program; the northern infrastructure program; the spades in the ground at Heathrow; the sense of urgency in respect of the NHS winter crisis (even Boris got that one) and the overarching vision of how we are going to operate after Brexit? It's bordering on tragic.0 -
Cons SoS for Health is a poison chalice. Not the place for a buffoon and needing the straightest of straight bats. Regardless of his sweating, he has not presented to the public as anything other than an under the cosh, always running to catch up (all politically) politician.stevef said:
On the basis of what I've just said, its not very sensible is it? Where's the sense in making someone leader who isnt a good speaker, is boring, has no discernible sense of humour, no wit, sweats under pressure, is associated with NHS cuts, and has a name which Corbynistas will exploit to chant as a slogan song at the election?TOPPING said:
A lot of sensible Tories like him.stevef said:It was in the Sun. Thats the clue.
There wont be a move against Theresa May in the short term. Anymore than as the Express says today that eating curry protects you from dementia.
In the medium to long term ....Jeremy Hunt? Really?
He's not a good performer. He's a boring speaker. He looks like a startled in the headlamps rabbit. He sweats under pressure. And he is associated with old ladies dying on hospital trollies. Some have interpreted his previous writings as his being against the principle of the NHS.
And his name rhymes with a word which young Corbynistas would love to write a rival Oh jeremy Corbyn song to.
Is there really a serious argument for Jeremy Hunt?
That would change if he were to be considered for the leadership or for PM.0 -
The left that despises Hunt already turns out. In any case, rather like the milk-snatcher taunt, their jibes will have little practical effect, particularly once in office. It's a lot harder to hold someone's past against them politically while they're already creating a present.HYUFD said:The left despise Hunt and he would drive up Labour turnout while he fails to enthuse the pro Brexit right as much as Boris, Mogg or even Davis, Hinds and Williamson would so no Hunt is unlikely to be the next leader. Of the former Remainers I would even say Rudd is more likely to get to the final two than Hunt especially given Hunt's belated conversion to Leave and the fact the left are less hostile to her.
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I have no intention of voting Conservative anyway so possibly a bad person to ask but he seems better than quite a few of the others, or I dislike him less to put it more accurately, how you take that depends on how much you subscribe to the annoys the other side being good approach.
Although I tend to take the view of Hunt that he is the Conservative in charge of Health rather than against the wishes of his party enacting his policy* on the NHS, I guess I share any condemnation for problems much more across the party, which might be a kinder view than many others on the left take.
*Obviously there is an element of this.
He presents himself quite well, I cannot see him turning voters off because of his personality, he has been moderate on Brexit. Unless the NHS stuff is a real vote killer he does look a decent pick of the current runners.
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The NHS is not milk. And in any case the milk issue was way back in Thatcher's past, the NHS is current.david_herdson said:
The left that despises Hunt already turns out. In any case, rather like the milk-snatcher taunt, their jibes will have little practical effect, particularly once in office. It's a lot harder to hold someone's past against them politically while they're already creating a present.HYUFD said:The left despise Hunt and he would drive up Labour turnout while he fails to enthuse the pro Brexit right as much as Boris, Mogg or even Davis, Hinds and Williamson would so no Hunt is unlikely to be the next leader. Of the former Remainers I would even say Rudd is more likely to get to the final two than Hunt especially given Hunt's belated conversion to Leave and the fact the left are less hostile to her.
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Yes. Hunt should be the Tory the Left fears. He would be the closest the Tories get to their own Tony Blair (Dave tried it but could never quite shake off a slightly supercilious air of high breeding). With his dimply smile and pert chin, Hunt is the antidote to the stony, hard-faced politics of May, Trump, Farage etc.AlastairMeeks said:Incidentally, Jeremy Hunt is very dangerous for many on the left because they start from the viewpoint that he's obviously appalling and don't feel the need to explain that to the unconvinced. You can see some of that on this thread already.
He's fluent, doesn't shy away from fights or from the media, he's not abrasive and he presents things plausibly. The public would give him a fair crack of the whip and I expect that like Theresa May he might get rather a long honeymoon in which to establish himself.
Whether he has any kind of vision, however, is completely unknown at present.0 -
Look at his shifty eyes. Look at the sweat on his brow. Listen to his weaselly way of talking, his lack of passion, the coldness of the man. The Tories would have to be insane.TOPPING said:
Cons SoS for Health is a poison chalice. Not the place for a buffoon and needing the straightest of straight bats. Regardless of his sweating, he has not presented to the public as anything other than an under the cosh, always running to catch up (all politically) politician.stevef said:
On the basis of what I've just said, its not very sensible is it? Where's the sense in making someone leader who isnt a good speaker, is boring, has no discernible sense of humour, no wit, sweats under pressure, is associated with NHS cuts, and has a name which Corbynistas will exploit to chant as a slogan song at the election?TOPPING said:
A lot of sensible Tories like him.stevef said:It was in the Sun. Thats the clue.
There wont be a move against Theresa May in the short term. Anymore than as the Express says today that eating curry protects you from dementia.
In the medium to long term ....Jeremy Hunt? Really?
He's not a good performer. He's a boring speaker. He looks like a startled in the headlamps rabbit. He sweats under pressure. And he is associated with old ladies dying on hospital trollies. Some have interpreted his previous writings as his being against the principle of the NHS.
And his name rhymes with a word which young Corbynistas would love to write a rival Oh jeremy Corbyn song to.
Is there really a serious argument for Jeremy Hunt?
That would change if he were to be considered for the leadership or for PM.0 -
Yep great attack lines. I'm sure the public at large will respond to this kind of thing.stevef said:
Look at his shifty eyes. Look at the sweat on his brow. Listen to his weaselly way of talking, his lack of passion, the coldness of the man. The Tories would have to be insane.TOPPING said:
Cons SoS for Health is a poison chalice. Not the place for a buffoon and needing the straightest of straight bats. Regardless of his sweating, he has not presented to the public as anything other than an under the cosh, always running to catch up (all politically) politician.stevef said:
On the basis of what I've just said, its not very sensible is it? Where's the sense in making someone leader who isnt a good speaker, is boring, has no discernible sense of humour, no wit, sweats under pressure, is associated with NHS cuts, and has a name which Corbynistas will exploit to chant as a slogan song at the election?TOPPING said:
A lot of sensible Tories like him.stevef said:It was in the Sun. Thats the clue.
There wont be a move against Theresa May in the short term. Anymore than as the Express says today that eating curry protects you from dementia.
In the medium to long term ....Jeremy Hunt? Really?
He's not a good performer. He's a boring speaker. He looks like a startled in the headlamps rabbit. He sweats under pressure. And he is associated with old ladies dying on hospital trollies. Some have interpreted his previous writings as his being against the principle of the NHS.
And his name rhymes with a word which young Corbynistas would love to write a rival Oh jeremy Corbyn song to.
Is there really a serious argument for Jeremy Hunt?
That would change if he were to be considered for the leadership or for PM.0 -
Nope. Most of these programs don't even require legislation immediately. What they require is Cabinet Ministers to be allowed to lead their areas and get things done. How hard would it have been to have Sajid Javid sign deals to build 10k starter homes through Housing Associations? Get on with it. Now.Richard_Nabavi said:
Welcome to minority government.DavidL said:...
Where the hell is the housebuilding program; the northern infrastructure program; the spades in the ground at Heathrow; the sense of urgency in respect of the NHS winter crisis (even Boris got that one) and the overarching vision of how we are going to operate after Brexit? It's bordering on tragic.
You can't help feeling that May doesn't want any of her Cabinet shining in case it leads to obvious conclusions.0 -
They're fair questions, to which a lot of the answers are: 'we don't know'.Danny565 said:Can someone please explain to me what qualities Hunt has (with regards to potential public appeal) that May doesn't have?
Does he "look the part" of a PM more? Is he more media-friendly than she is? * Is he more charismatic or inspiring? Does he have a substantially different view to May on all the various policy areas the Tories got slaughtered on in 2017? Who exactly are the voters he would win over that May failed to?
(* I can imagine his blinky eyes being the equivalent of May's "gurning" tic)
The reality is that there are only two proven campaigners of ability in the Tories at the moment, one of whom is a loose cannon, and the other of which is out of Westminster. Once you rule those out, you get quite a lot of blanks on the paper. The best you can then do is look for a lack of negatives (which historically has been quite a good way of predicting who the next Tory leader will be).0 -
It's nonsense, another example of the curious phenomenon that Brexit seems to have addled the brains of people on both sides of the argument. Theresa May has been perfectly clear what she wants, it's utterly baffling that anyone accuses her of not being clear. Her Article 50 letter, and the Florence speech were as clear as crystal. However, it's a negotiation, a concept which totally seems to elude the intellect of this FT journalist and many others, and it's also subject to what can be got through parliament. That means that Theresa May doesn't get to specify unilaterally what the final deal will be. So of course she can't provide 'clarity' as to the final outcome.FF43 said:This rings true and is somewhat relevant to the topic
https://twitter.com/philipstephens/status/956392688605192193
Before the referendum it was the loonier type of Brexiteer who thought that the UK government could lay down what it wanted without asking our EU friends. Now the Continuity Remainers have joined them in making the identical mistake.0 -
Would that have anything to do with your betting slips?AlastairMeeks said:Lots of us are rooting for Jeremy Hunt.
Michael Gove wouldn't be a bad choice either.
Further suitable names can be supplied.
Gove would be an excellent choice but for two things. He's not a team player and Dominic Cummings is even worse than Fiona Hill.0 -
That lonhg honeymoon would only be useful if an election were imminent. But one is not due for a four and a half years. The honeymoon would have worn off by then. Of course Corbyn supporters would love him to be PM. They imagine that he will help their man.Stark_Dawning said:
Yes. Hunt should be the Tory the Left fears. He would be the closest the Tories get to their own Tony Blair (Dave tried it but could never quite shake off a slightly supercilious air of high breeding). With his dimply smile and pert chin, Hunt is the antidote to the stony, hard-faced politics of May, Trump, Farage etc.AlastairMeeks said:Incidentally, Jeremy Hunt is very dangerous for many on the left because they start from the viewpoint that he's obviously appalling and don't feel the need to explain that to the unconvinced. You can see some of that on this thread already.
He's fluent, doesn't shy away from fights or from the media, he's not abrasive and he presents things plausibly. The public would give him a fair crack of the whip and I expect that like Theresa May he might get rather a long honeymoon in which to establish himself.
Whether he has any kind of vision, however, is completely unknown at present.
For as long as Corbyn is around the Tories are guaranteed power But AaHunt premiership would result in another hung parliament with the Tories again the largest party, as now, but without a majority.If the Tories want a majority, they need someone with a dynamic vision and style.0 -
Jeremy Hunt, saviour of the Conservative Party? Colour me unconvinced. As Peggy Lee sang:
Is that all there is?
Is that all there is?
If that's all there is, my friend,
Then let's keep dancing.
We'll open the booze and have a ball.
If that's all
There is.....0 -
A hell of a lot more effective, though.david_herdson said:... Dominic Cummings is even worse than Fiona Hill.
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That doesn't mean it has a political impact.stevef said:
The NHS is not milk. And in any case the milk issue was way back in Thatcher's past, the NHS is current.david_herdson said:
The left that despises Hunt already turns out. In any case, rather like the milk-snatcher taunt, their jibes will have little practical effect, particularly once in office. It's a lot harder to hold someone's past against them politically while they're already creating a present.HYUFD said:The left despise Hunt and he would drive up Labour turnout while he fails to enthuse the pro Brexit right as much as Boris, Mogg or even Davis, Hinds and Williamson would so no Hunt is unlikely to be the next leader. Of the former Remainers I would even say Rudd is more likely to get to the final two than Hunt especially given Hunt's belated conversion to Leave and the fact the left are less hostile to her.
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I don't think Hunt is particularly "appalling", any more than most of the government (the problems with the NHS mostly flow from the government's central decisions on fiscal policy, and to an extent from Hunt's predecessor's terrible "reforms"; I don't think Hunt himself has done anything that's within his own remit that's particularly made the problems worse).AlastairMeeks said:Incidentally, Jeremy Hunt is very dangerous for many on the left because they start from the viewpoint that he's obviously appalling and don't feel the need to explain that to the unconvinced. You can see some of that on this thread already.
He's fluent, doesn't shy away from fights or from the media, he's not abrasive and he presents things plausibly. The public would give him a fair crack of the whip and I expect that like Theresa May he might get rather a long honeymoon in which to establish himself.
Whether he has any kind of vision, however, is completely unknown at present.
But I do question his "fluency". I've always found his interviews to be very Maybot-like: just repeating the stock lines, in a flat monotone, not really showing any of the magic "empathy" (as opposed to, say, Amber Rudd, who even when on a difficult subject is quite good at putting up a vigorous defence, at sounding like she's engaging with the questions rather than just robotically repeating memorised lines, and at sounding sincere when giving spiel like "I understand people are having a tough time, but this is necessary" blahblahblah). I don't think people would hate Hunt as such, but I do think that, like May post-honeymoon, they would find him to be an utterly uncompelling personality.0 -
I don't think those are attack lines, so much as one person's view as how he comes over on TV.TOPPING said:
Yep great attack lines. I'm sure the public at large will respond to this kind of thing.stevef said:
Look at his shifty eyes. Look at the sweat on his brow. Listen to his weaselly way of talking, his lack of passion, the coldness of the man. The Tories would have to be insane.TOPPING said:
Cons SoS for Health is a poison chalice. Not the place for a buffoon and needing the straightest of straight bats. Regardless of his sweating, he has not presented to the public as anything other than an under the cosh, always running to catch up (all politically) politician.stevef said:
On the basis of what I've just said, its not very sensible is it? Where's the sense in making someone leader who isnt a good speaker, is boring, has no discernible sense of humour, no wit, sweats under pressure, is associated with NHS cuts, and has a name which Corbynistas will exploit to chant as a slogan song at the election?TOPPING said:
A lot of sensible Tories like him.stevef said:It was in the Sun. Thats the clue.
There wont be a move against Theresa May in the short term. Anymore than as the Express says today that eating curry protects you from dementia.
In the medium to long term ....Jeremy Hunt? Really?
He's not a good performer. He's a boring speaker. He looks like a startled in the headlamps rabbit. He sweats under pressure. And he is associated with old ladies dying on hospital trollies. Some have interpreted his previous writings as his being against the principle of the NHS.
And his name rhymes with a word which young Corbynistas would love to write a rival Oh jeremy Corbyn song to.
Is there really a serious argument for Jeremy Hunt?
That would change if he were to be considered for the leadership or for PM.
Personally, I think there's a hint of something a little bit 'off' about him, but he'd be something of an upgrade from May's bizarre persona.
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FPT
The tooth fairy certainly exists. She came by our house last night to leave some money under my daughter's pillow148grss said:
The same goes for an infinite number of "all powerful" beings. If the "all powerful" tooth fairy can make us believe they don't exist, they might exist.TheJezziah said:
I can't actually understand a hard atheism stance, because if we take for example an explanation I heard for dinosaur fossils that God put them there to test our faith, because dinosaurs conflicted with his view of the age of the Earth.
If we apply that logic of an all powerful God that is prepared to trick people into believing things that aren't true then we cannot trust absolutely anything all our science could be a trick by God which he maintains by making all the things we use it for work as well so anything you used to disprove God could simply be a trick by God. Far fetched doesn't matter only possible and with an all powerful God anything is possible.
Things that we have no positive evidence for are equivalent to things that don't exist. Things that we can't know exist (the argument that god is unknowable to to mind of man) are practically equivalent to a thing that does not exist. If you cannot present evidence for a thing, why should I believe said thing? The argument of "we have no answer for x, therefore I propose a y that means x" just begs the question of "we have no answer for y". If you can have uncaused causes (which maybe we can), why can't the universe be such a thing? If you can't have uncaused causes, what caused god?0 -
No doubt, but I think they'd resleeve any such upgrade.TheJezziah said:
In the future there are hopes for more advanced features such as a debate mode and even talk of a revolutionary empathy module. The landslide model should be available for purchase within a couple of decades.JonathanD said:Are Sky News trying to tell us something about May? I'm also not sure why CCHQ retweeted it
https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/9565156868801822720 -
Speaking as someone from the left - Hunt looks the toughest Tory to beat.
He’s a good communicator from what I’ve seen and was very successful in business previously.
He hasn’t been a good health secretary but he can justifiably argue that he has been shortchanged by Tory chancellors. If he promised the £350m/week for the NHS - I think that would certainly win the public over.
0 -
Oi! Where's my H/T for "Battle of the Jezzas" on the last thread?-1
-
Sounds fair.Danny565 said:
I don't think Hunt is particularly "appalling", any more than most of the government (the problems with the NHS mostly flow from the government's central decisions on fiscal policy, and to an extent from Hunt's predecessor's terrible "reforms"; I don't think Hunt himself has done anything that's within his own remit that's particularly made the problems worse).AlastairMeeks said:Incidentally, Jeremy Hunt is very dangerous for many on the left because they start from the viewpoint that he's obviously appalling and don't feel the need to explain that to the unconvinced. You can see some of that on this thread already.
He's fluent, doesn't shy away from fights or from the media, he's not abrasive and he presents things plausibly. The public would give him a fair crack of the whip and I expect that like Theresa May he might get rather a long honeymoon in which to establish himself.
Whether he has any kind of vision, however, is completely unknown at present.
But I do question his "fluency". I've always found his interviews to be very Maybot-like: just repeating the stock lines, in a flat monotone, not really showing any of the magic "empathy" (as opposed to, say, Amber Rudd, who even when on a difficult subject is quite good at putting up a vigorous defence, at sounding like she's engaging with the questions rather than just robotically repeating memorised lines, and at sounding sincere when giving spiel like "I understand people are having a tough time, but this is necessary" blahblahblah). I don't think people would hate Hunt as such, but I do think that, like May post-honeymoon, they would find him to be an utterly uncompelling personality.
Standing in front of the cameras, appealing for the trust of the public, I'm not sure he'd get that many takers...
..without offering something concrete in return.0 -
Fun while it lasted.
https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/9565241780306862080 -
He's emollient and appeals to middle England.Danny565 said:Can someone please explain to me what qualities Hunt has (with regards to potential public appeal) that May doesn't have?
Does he "look the part" of a PM more? Is he more media-friendly than she is? * Is he more charismatic or inspiring? Does he have a substantially different view to May on all the various policy areas the Tories got slaughtered on in 2017? Who exactly are the voters he would win over that May failed to?
(* I can imagine his blinky eyes being the equivalent of May's "gurning" tic)0 -
Good news for Biden, Sanders and Warren thenTissue_Price said:Fun while it lasted.
https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/9565241780306862080 -
Would Corbyn supporters love him to be PM in the same way as Cons supporters wanted Corbyn to be leader of the Labour Party?stevef said:
That lonhg honeymoon would only be useful if an election were imminent. But one is not due for a four and a half years. The honeymoon would have worn off by then. Of course Corbyn supporters would love him to be PM. They imagine that he will help their man.Stark_Dawning said:
Yes. Hunt should be the Tory the Left fears. He would be the closest the Tories get to their own Tony Blair (Dave tried it but could never quite shake off a slightly supercilious air of high breeding). With his dimply smile and pert chin, Hunt is the antidote to the stony, hard-faced politics of May, Trump, Farage etc.AlastairMeeks said:Incidentally, Jeremy Hunt is very dangerous for many on the left because they start from the viewpoint that he's obviously appalling and don't feel the need to explain that to the unconvinced. You can see some of that on this thread already.
He's fluent, doesn't shy away from fights or from the media, he's not abrasive and he presents things plausibly. The public would give him a fair crack of the whip and I expect that like Theresa May he might get rather a long honeymoon in which to establish himself.
Whether he has any kind of vision, however, is completely unknown at present.
For as long as Corbyn is around the Tories are guaranteed power But AaHunt premiership would result in another hung parliament with the Tories again the largest party, as now, but without a majority.If the Tories want a majority, they need someone with a dynamic vision and style.0 -
Would you consider voting for him though? The ideal Tory leader would hold all the 2017 Tory vote and won over some voters who voted Labour or LD last time toorkrkrk said:Speaking as someone from the left - Hunt looks the toughest Tory to beat.
He’s a good communicator from what I’ve seen and was very successful in business previously.
He hasn’t been a good health secretary but he can justifiably argue that he has been shortchanged by Tory chancellors. If he promised the £350m/week for the NHS - I think that would certainly win the public over.0 -
No. The left despise Tories.HYUFD said:The left despise Hunt and he would drive up Labour turnout while he fails to enthuse the pro Brexit right as much as Boris, Mogg or even Davis, Hinds and Williamson would so no Hunt is unlikely to be the next leader. Of the former Remainers I would even say Rudd is more likely to get to the final two than Hunt especially given Hunt's belated conversion to Leave and the fact the left are less hostile to her.
No Tory would win the favour of the left.0 -
The interesting point is that Theresa May is very keen to shut down all debate about Brexit policy until we formally leave. And no, it's far from crystal clear and certainly not the Florence speech which rejected every one of our realistic options. You can be sure when people refer to "creative solutions" and "bold new strategies" without mentioning what those solutions and strategies might be, they haven't a clue what they are talking about. There are real choices to be made, we are not making them and Mrs May is very keen we shouldn't discuss them.Richard_Nabavi said:
It's nonsense, another example of the curious phenomenon that Brexit seems to have addled the brains of people on both sides of the argument. Theresa May has been perfectly clear what she wants, it's utterly baffling that anyone accuses her of not being clear. Her Article 50 letter, and the Florence speech were as clear as crystal. However, it's a negotiation, a concept which totally seems to elude the intellect of this FT journalist and many others, and it's also subject to what can be got through parliament. That means that Theresa May doesn't get to specify unilaterally what the final deal will be. So of course she can't provide 'clarity' as to the final outcome.FF43 said:This rings true and is somewhat relevant to the topic
https://twitter.com/philipstephens/status/956392688605192193
Before the referendum it was the loonier type of Brexiteer who thought that the UK government could lay down what it wanted without asking our EU friends. Now the Continuity Remainers have joined them in making the identical mistake.0 -
Say what you like about Boris at least he has charisma and dynamismstevef said:
That lonhg honeymoon would only be useful if an election were imminent. But one is not due for a four and a half years. The honeymoon would have worn off by then. Of course Corbyn supporters would love him to be PM. They imagine that he will help their man.Stark_Dawning said:
Yes. Hunt should be the Tory the Left fears. He would be the closest the Tories get to their own Tony Blair (Dave tried it but could never quite shake off a slightly supercilious air of high breeding). With his dimply smile and pert chin, Hunt is the antidote to the stony, hard-faced politics of May, Trump, Farage etc.AlastairMeeks said:Incidentally, Jeremy Hunt is very dangerous for many on the left because they start from the viewpoint that he's obviously appalling and don't feel the need to explain that to the unconvinced. You can see some of that on this thread already.
He's fluent, doesn't shy away from fights or from the media, he's not abrasive and he presents things plausibly. The public would give him a fair crack of the whip and I expect that like Theresa May he might get rather a long honeymoon in which to establish himself.
Whether he has any kind of vision, however, is completely unknown at present.
For as long as Corbyn is around the Tories are guaranteed power But AaHunt premiership would result in another hung parliament with the Tories again the largest party, as now, but without a majority.If the Tories want a majority, they need someone with a dynamic vision and style.0 -
If Hunt pledges £350mn a week for the NHS he would win lots of votes.HYUFD said:
Would you consider voting for him though? The ideal Tory leader would hold all the 2017 Tory vote and won over some voters who voted Labour or LD last time toorkrkrk said:Speaking as someone from the left - Hunt looks the toughest Tory to beat.
He’s a good communicator from what I’ve seen and was very successful in business previously.
He hasn’t been a good health secretary but he can justifiably argue that he has been shortchanged by Tory chancellors. If he promised the £350m/week for the NHS - I think that would certainly win the public over.0 -
One of the key considerations in choosing a leader (especially in the current circumstances) is the extent to which the candidate is liked and respected by Conservative MPs - could he or she unite the party and sooth over the inevitable problems of ruffled ambitions and personal rivalries? That's especially true because it's MPs who decide who gets into the final two.
Jeremy Hunt is probably quite well placed on that score, at least in the sense that we doesn't seem to have lots of enemies who will be trying to ensure he's not in the final two. Some other of the names bandied about, such as Boris or Gavin Williamson ... well, make your own judgement.
0 -
He hasn't though, Boris hasPhilip_Thompson said:
If Hunt pledges £350mn a week for the NHS he would win lots of votes.HYUFD said:
Would you consider voting for him though? The ideal Tory leader would hold all the 2017 Tory vote and won over some voters who voted Labour or LD last time toorkrkrk said:Speaking as someone from the left - Hunt looks the toughest Tory to beat.
He’s a good communicator from what I’ve seen and was very successful in business previously.
He hasn’t been a good health secretary but he can justifiably argue that he has been shortchanged by Tory chancellors. If he promised the £350m/week for the NHS - I think that would certainly win the public over.0 -
A very fair summary.AlastairMeeks said:Incidentally, Jeremy Hunt is very dangerous for many on the left because they start from the viewpoint that he's obviously appalling and don't feel the need to explain that to the unconvinced. You can see some of that on this thread already.
He's fluent, doesn't shy away from fights or from the media, he's not abrasive and he presents things plausibly. The public would give him a fair crack of the whip and I expect that like Theresa May he might get rather a long honeymoon in which to establish himself.
Whether he has any kind of vision, however, is completely unknown at present.
The fact that the left dismiss him is a huge plus. They did the same for Cameron.
It meant that lots of left leaning voters stayed at home....0 -
Good afternoon, everyone.
Sensible PB articles for a happier bank balance
0 -
Do you not think people would ask "why would we believe you now if you've not done it in the [x] years you've been in government"?Philip_Thompson said:
If Hunt pledges £350mn a week for the NHS he would win lots of votes.HYUFD said:
Would you consider voting for him though? The ideal Tory leader would hold all the 2017 Tory vote and won over some voters who voted Labour or LD last time toorkrkrk said:Speaking as someone from the left - Hunt looks the toughest Tory to beat.
He’s a good communicator from what I’ve seen and was very successful in business previously.
He hasn’t been a good health secretary but he can justifiably argue that he has been shortchanged by Tory chancellors. If he promised the £350m/week for the NHS - I think that would certainly win the public over.0 -
Some would drive up Labour turnout more though and Hunt is likely one of those, Boris would do too but he would also likely drive up Tory turnout, not sure you can say the same of HuntPhilip_Thompson said:
No. The left despise Tories.HYUFD said:The left despise Hunt and he would drive up Labour turnout while he fails to enthuse the pro Brexit right as much as Boris, Mogg or even Davis, Hinds and Williamson would so no Hunt is unlikely to be the next leader. Of the former Remainers I would even say Rudd is more likely to get to the final two than Hunt especially given Hunt's belated conversion to Leave and the fact the left are less hostile to her.
No Tory would win the favour of the left.0 -
Imagine a TV debate between Corbyn and Hunt. Corbyn would be seen as the one with passion, as champion of the NHS, Hunt would appear to be the shifty one, the cold one, the quiet passionless defensive one, the one who when he was health secretary allowed old ladies to suffer in corridors on hospital trollies, the one whose past writings can be interpreted as being against the NHS, The result would be another hung parliament with the Tories as biggest party but no majority.Nigelb said:
I don't think those are attack lines, so much as one person's view as how he comes over on TV.TOPPING said:
Yep great attack lines. I'm sure the public at large will respond to this kind of thing.stevef said:
Look at his shifty eyes. Look at the sweat on his brow. Listen to his weaselly way of talking, his lack of passion, the coldness of the man. The Tories would have to be insane.TOPPING said:
Cons SoS for Health is a poison chalice. Not the place for a buffoon and needing the straightest of straight bats. Regardless of his sweating, he has not presented to the public as anything other than an under the cosh, always running to catch up (all politically) politician.stevef said:
On the basis of what I've just said, its not very sensible is it? Where's the sense in making someone leader who isnt a good speaker, is boring, has no discernible sense of humour, no wit, sweats under pressure, is associated with NHS cuts, and has a name which Corbynistas will exploit to chant as a slogan song at the election?TOPPING said:
A lot of sensible Tories like him.stevef said:It was in the Sun. Thats the clue.
There wont be a move against Theresa May in the short term. Anymore than as the Express says today that eating curry protects you from dementia.
In the medium to long term ....Jeremy Hunt? Really?
He's not a good performer. He's a boring speaker. He looks like a startled in the headlamps rabbit. He sweats under pressure. And he is associated with old ladies dying on hospital trollies. Some have interpreted his previous writings as his being against the principle of the NHS.
And his name rhymes with a word which young Corbynistas would love to write a rival Oh jeremy Corbyn song to.
Is there really a serious argument for Jeremy Hunt?
That would change if he were to be considered for the leadership or for PM.
Personally, I think there's a hint of something a little bit 'off' about him, but he'd be something of an upgrade from May's bizarre persona.0 -
The problem for Hunt is that the NHS music has stopped and he is holding a pretty moth-eaten record.0
-
And Hillary...HYUFD said:
Good news for Biden, Sanders and Warren thenTissue_Price said:Fun while it lasted.
https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/9565241780306862080 -
What's not clear? Out of the single market, out of the customs union, no freedom of movement, and as much of a comprehensive trade deal as we can get, including financial services. I really can't see how she could possibly be clearer. Or, to put it another way, Canada Plus Plus. The only uncertainty is the amount of the 'plus plus' that we'll be able to get, and that is something which depends on the negotiations.FF43 said:
The interesting point is that Theresa May is very keen to shut down all debate about Brexit policy until we formally leave. And no, it's far from crystal clear and certainly not the Florence speech which rejected every one of our realistic options. You can be sure when people refer to "creative solutions" and "bold new strategies" without mentioning what those solutions and strategies might be, they haven't a clue what they are talking about. There are real choices to be made, we are not making them and Mrs May is very keen we shouldn't discuss them.Richard_Nabavi said:
It's nonsense, another example of the curious phenomenon that Brexit seems to have addled the brains of people on both sides of the argument. Theresa May has been perfectly clear what she wants, it's utterly baffling that anyone accuses her of not being clear. Her Article 50 letter, and the Florence speech were as clear as crystal. However, it's a negotiation, a concept which totally seems to elude the intellect of this FT journalist and many others, and it's also subject to what can be got through parliament. That means that Theresa May doesn't get to specify unilaterally what the final deal will be. So of course she can't provide 'clarity' as to the final outcome.FF43 said:This rings true and is somewhat relevant to the topic
https://twitter.com/philipstephens/status/956392688605192193
Before the referendum it was the loonier type of Brexiteer who thought that the UK government could lay down what it wanted without asking our EU friends. Now the Continuity Remainers have joined them in making the identical mistake.0 -
Not sure the Tories would even be the biggest party and despite their troubles the UKIP vote would probably be up on June 2017 if Hunt led the Toriesstevef said:
Imagine a TV debate between Corbyn and Hunt. Corbyn would be seen as the one with passion, as champion of the NHS, Hunt would appear to be the shifty one, the cold one, the quiet passionless defensive one, the one who when he was health secretary allowed old ladies to suffer in corridors on hospital trollies, the one whose past writings can be interpreted as being against the NHS, The result would be another hung parliament with the Tories as biggest party but no majority.Nigelb said:
I don't think those are attack lines, so much as one person's view as how he comes over on TV.TOPPING said:
Yep great attack lines. I'm sure the public at large will respond to this kind of thing.stevef said:
Look at his shifty eyes. Look at the sweat on his brow. Listen to his weaselly way of talking, his lack of passion, the coldness of the man. The Tories would have to be insane.TOPPING said:
Cons SoS for Health is a poison chalice. Not the place for a buffoon and needing the straightest of straight bats. Regardless of his sweating, he has not presented to the public as anything other than an under the cosh, always running to catch up (all politically) politician.stevef said:
On the basis of what I've just said, its not very sensible is it? Where's the sense in making someone leader who isnt a good speaker, is boring, has no discernible sense of humour, no wit, sweats under pressure, is associated with NHS cuts, and has a name which Corbynistas will exploit to chant as a slogan song at the election?TOPPING said:
A lot of sensible Tories like him.stevef said:It was in the Sun. Thats the clue.
There wont be a move against Theresa May in the short term. Anymore than as the Express says today that eating curry protects you from dementia.
In the medium to long term ....Jeremy Hunt? Really?
He's not a good performer. He's a boring speaker. He looks like a startled in the headlamps rabbit. He sweats under pressure. And he is associated with old ladies dying on hospital trollies. Some have interpreted his previous writings as his being against the principle of the NHS.
And his name rhymes with a word which young Corbynistas would love to write a rival Oh jeremy Corbyn song to.
Is there really a serious argument for Jeremy Hunt?
That would change if he were to be considered for the leadership or for PM.
Personally, I think there's a hint of something a little bit 'off' about him, but he'd be something of an upgrade from May's bizarre persona.0 -
Any analysis that starts with the members is therefore flawed. And it's usually doubly flawed because of preconceptions about what matters to the members (hint: it's usually not how they voted in the referendum) and/or overinterpreting hypothetical polling. Or pseudo-polling, in ConHome's case: their series is very valuable but shouldn't be taken as gospel.Richard_Nabavi said:One of the key considerations in choosing a leader (especially in the current circumstances) is the extent to which the candidate is liked and respected by Conservative MPs - could he or she unite the party and sooth over the inevitable problems of ruffled ambitions and personal rivalries? That's especially true because it's MPs who decide who gets into the final two.
Jeremy Hunt is probably quite well placed on that score, at least in the sense that we doesn't seem to have lots of enemies who will be trying to ensure he's not in the final two. Some other of the names bandied about, such as Boris or Gavin Williamson ... well, make your own judgement.0 -
Suits my book.HYUFD said:
Good news for Biden, Sanders and Warren thenTissue_Price said:Fun while it lasted.
https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/956524178030686208 0 -
Hillary's political career ended at the last presidential electionPeterMannion said:
And Hillary...HYUFD said:
Good news for Biden, Sanders and Warren thenTissue_Price said:Fun while it lasted.
https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/9565241780306862080 -
Cameron had charisma, Hunt does notMortimer said:
A very fair summary.AlastairMeeks said:Incidentally, Jeremy Hunt is very dangerous for many on the left because they start from the viewpoint that he's obviously appalling and don't feel the need to explain that to the unconvinced. You can see some of that on this thread already.
He's fluent, doesn't shy away from fights or from the media, he's not abrasive and he presents things plausibly. The public would give him a fair crack of the whip and I expect that like Theresa May he might get rather a long honeymoon in which to establish himself.
Whether he has any kind of vision, however, is completely unknown at present.
The fact that the left dismiss him is a huge plus. They did the same for Cameron.
It meant that lots of left leaning voters stayed at home....0 -
Have you ever heard him speak in person?HYUFD said:
Cameron had charisma, Hunt does notMortimer said:
A very fair summary.AlastairMeeks said:Incidentally, Jeremy Hunt is very dangerous for many on the left because they start from the viewpoint that he's obviously appalling and don't feel the need to explain that to the unconvinced. You can see some of that on this thread already.
He's fluent, doesn't shy away from fights or from the media, he's not abrasive and he presents things plausibly. The public would give him a fair crack of the whip and I expect that like Theresa May he might get rather a long honeymoon in which to establish himself.
Whether he has any kind of vision, however, is completely unknown at present.
The fact that the left dismiss him is a huge plus. They did the same for Cameron.
It meant that lots of left leaning voters stayed at home....
He most certainly does.0 -
The members current favourites are Mogg, Gove and Boris in that orderTissue_Price said:
Any analysis that starts with the members is therefore flawed. And it's usually doubly flawed because of preconceptions about what matters to the members (hint: it's usually not how they voted in the referendum) and/or overinterpreting hypothetical polling. Or pseudo-polling, in ConHome's case: their series is very valuable but shouldn't be taken as gospel.Richard_Nabavi said:One of the key considerations in choosing a leader (especially in the current circumstances) is the extent to which the candidate is liked and respected by Conservative MPs - could he or she unite the party and sooth over the inevitable problems of ruffled ambitions and personal rivalries? That's especially true because it's MPs who decide who gets into the final two.
Jeremy Hunt is probably quite well placed on that score, at least in the sense that we doesn't seem to have lots of enemies who will be trying to ensure he's not in the final two. Some other of the names bandied about, such as Boris or Gavin Williamson ... well, make your own judgement.0 -
I have and he even held the door open for me once, I have met Hunt and May and Boris and Gove and Davis and Cameron briefly and Cameron and Boris are a class apart in terms of charisma.Mortimer said:
Have you ever heard him speak in person.HYUFD said:
Cameron had charisma, Hunt does notMortimer said:
A very fair summary.AlastairMeeks said:Incidentally, Jeremy Hunt is very dangerous for many on the left because they start from the viewpoint that he's obviously appalling and don't feel the need to explain that to the unconvinced. You can see some of that on this thread already.
He's fluent, doesn't shy away from fights or from the media, he's not abrasive and he presents things plausibly. The public would give him a fair crack of the whip and I expect that like Theresa May he might get rather a long honeymoon in which to establish himself.
Whether he has any kind of vision, however, is completely unknown at present.
The fact that the left dismiss him is a huge plus. They did the same for Cameron.
It meant that lots of left leaning voters stayed at home....
He most certainly does.
I have no problem with Hunt in Cabinet but he is not an election winner0 -
Eh ?PeterMannion said:
And Hillary...HYUFD said:
Good news for Biden, Sanders and Warren thenTissue_Price said:Fun while it lasted.
https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/9565241780306862080 -
I would say nice and diffident. I can see the appeal (even if his persona is calculated)Mortimer said:
Have you ever heard him speak in person?HYUFD said:
Cameron had charisma, Hunt does notMortimer said:
A very fair summary.AlastairMeeks said:Incidentally, Jeremy Hunt is very dangerous for many on the left because they start from the viewpoint that he's obviously appalling and don't feel the need to explain that to the unconvinced. You can see some of that on this thread already.
He's fluent, doesn't shy away from fights or from the media, he's not abrasive and he presents things plausibly. The public would give him a fair crack of the whip and I expect that like Theresa May he might get rather a long honeymoon in which to establish himself.
Whether he has any kind of vision, however, is completely unknown at present.
The fact that the left dismiss him is a huge plus. They did the same for Cameron.
It meant that lots of left leaning voters stayed at home....
He most certainly does.0 -
Nope.HYUFD said:
The members current favourites are Mogg, Gove and Boris in that orderTissue_Price said:
Any analysis that starts with the members is therefore flawed. And it's usually doubly flawed because of preconceptions about what matters to the members (hint: it's usually not how they voted in the referendum) and/or overinterpreting hypothetical polling. Or pseudo-polling, in ConHome's case: their series is very valuable but shouldn't be taken as gospel.Richard_Nabavi said:One of the key considerations in choosing a leader (especially in the current circumstances) is the extent to which the candidate is liked and respected by Conservative MPs - could he or she unite the party and sooth over the inevitable problems of ruffled ambitions and personal rivalries? That's especially true because it's MPs who decide who gets into the final two.
Jeremy Hunt is probably quite well placed on that score, at least in the sense that we doesn't seem to have lots of enemies who will be trying to ensure he's not in the final two. Some other of the names bandied about, such as Boris or Gavin Williamson ... well, make your own judgement.
They favour no one.0 -
Well over 50% favour a candidateTOPPING said:
Nope.HYUFD said:
The members current favourites are Mogg, Gove and Boris in that orderTissue_Price said:
Any analysis that starts with the members is therefore flawed. And it's usually doubly flawed because of preconceptions about what matters to the members (hint: it's usually not how they voted in the referendum) and/or overinterpreting hypothetical polling. Or pseudo-polling, in ConHome's case: their series is very valuable but shouldn't be taken as gospel.Richard_Nabavi said:One of the key considerations in choosing a leader (especially in the current circumstances) is the extent to which the candidate is liked and respected by Conservative MPs - could he or she unite the party and sooth over the inevitable problems of ruffled ambitions and personal rivalries? That's especially true because it's MPs who decide who gets into the final two.
Jeremy Hunt is probably quite well placed on that score, at least in the sense that we doesn't seem to have lots of enemies who will be trying to ensure he's not in the final two. Some other of the names bandied about, such as Boris or Gavin Williamson ... well, make your own judgement.
They favour no one.0 -
Gove would be a catastrophe for the Tories along the same lines as Alec Douglas Home in 1964, and William Hague in 2001.HYUFD said:
The members current favourites are Mogg, Gove and Boris in that orderTissue_Price said:
Any analysis that starts with the members is therefore flawed. And it's usually doubly flawed because of preconceptions about what matters to the members (hint: it's usually not how they voted in the referendum) and/or overinterpreting hypothetical polling. Or pseudo-polling, in ConHome's case: their series is very valuable but shouldn't be taken as gospel.Richard_Nabavi said:One of the key considerations in choosing a leader (especially in the current circumstances) is the extent to which the candidate is liked and respected by Conservative MPs - could he or she unite the party and sooth over the inevitable problems of ruffled ambitions and personal rivalries? That's especially true because it's MPs who decide who gets into the final two.
Jeremy Hunt is probably quite well placed on that score, at least in the sense that we doesn't seem to have lots of enemies who will be trying to ensure he's not in the final two. Some other of the names bandied about, such as Boris or Gavin Williamson ... well, make your own judgement.0 -
Good afternoon Morris.To be honest , I am with HYFUD regarding Boris .In grand Prix terms Boris is a winner and popular , a bit like James Hunt back in 1976.I would never underestimate him.Morris_Dancer said:Good afternoon, everyone.
Sensible PB articles for a happier bank balance0 -
There's no plus-plus, unless you disbelieve everyone on the EU side who has been very emphatic about this. Which gives us the Canada equivalent that Mrs May rejected in her Florence speech. As she is not prepared even to discuss those "creative solutions" and "bold new strategies" that she says are necessary, it's hard to see how the negotiations can proceed in a meaningful way. Returning to Philip Stephen's article, that's the whole point. Mrs May doesn't want a meaningful negotiation at this stage. She wants to get through to March 2019 without everything going tits up.Richard_Nabavi said:
What's not clear? Out of the single market, out of the customs union, no freedom of movement, and as much of a comprehensive trade deal as we can get, including financial services. I really can't see how she could possibly be clearer. Or, to put it another way, Canada Plus Plus. The only uncertainty is the amount of the 'plus plus' that we'll be able to get, and that is something which depends on the negotiations.FF43 said:
The interesting point is that Theresa May is very keen to shut down all debate about Brexit policy until we formally leave. And no, it's far from crystal clear and certainly not the Florence speech which rejected every one of our realistic options. You can be sure when people refer to "creative solutions" and "bold new strategies" without mentioning what those solutions and strategies might be, they haven't a clue what they are talking about. There are real choices to be made, we are not making them and Mrs May is very keen we shouldn't discuss them.Richard_Nabavi said:
It's nonsense, another example of the curious phenomenon that Brexit seems to have addled the brains of people on both sides of the argument. Theresa May has been perfectly clear what she wants, it's utterly baffling that anyone accuses her of not being clear. Her Article 50 letter, and the Florence speech were as clear as crystal. However, it's a negotiation, a concept which totally seems to elude the intellect of this FT journalist and many others, and it's also subject to what can be got through parliament. That means that Theresa May doesn't get to specify unilaterally what the final deal will be. So of course she can't provide 'clarity' as to the final outcome.FF43 said:This rings true and is somewhat relevant to the topic
https://twitter.com/philipstephens/status/956392688605192193
Before the referendum it was the loonier type of Brexiteer who thought that the UK government could lay down what it wanted without asking our EU friends. Now the Continuity Remainers have joined them in making the identical mistake.0 -
Simple. Pledge to do it in his leadership campaign, don't call an early election and by 2022 ACTUALLY DO IT.Danny565 said:
Do you not think people would ask "why would we believe you now if you've not done it in the [x] years you've been in government"?Philip_Thompson said:
If Hunt pledges £350mn a week for the NHS he would win lots of votes.HYUFD said:
Would you consider voting for him though? The ideal Tory leader would hold all the 2017 Tory vote and won over some voters who voted Labour or LD last time toorkrkrk said:Speaking as someone from the left - Hunt looks the toughest Tory to beat.
He’s a good communicator from what I’ve seen and was very successful in business previously.
He hasn’t been a good health secretary but he can justifiably argue that he has been shortchanged by Tory chancellors. If he promised the £350m/week for the NHS - I think that would certainly win the public over.
When he seeks re-election in 2022 he'd have a record to be believed. He can say we have delivered £350mn more like I promised and next term we will [insert pledge here].0 -
A hurricane is often effective at what it does.Richard_Nabavi said:
A hell of a lot more effective, though.david_herdson said:... Dominic Cummings is even worse than Fiona Hill.
After Brexit, the country could do with a bit of peace and quiet, not a new revolution that upends the entire machinery of government.0 -
Mr. City, Boris is conceited, brimming with self-regard.0
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Good, old Dan, it's never about immigration until it is.
https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/9565188421461483530 -
You mean apart from the PMs of France and Italy?FF43 said:
There's no plus-plus, unless you disbelieve everyone on the EU side who has been very emphatic about this. Which gives us the Canada equivalent that Mrs May rejected in her Florence speech. As she is not prepared even to discuss those "creative solutions" and "bold new strategies" that she says are necessary, it's hard to see how the negotiations can proceed in a meaningful way. Returning to Philip Stephen's article, that's the whole point. Mrs May doesn't want a meaningful negotiation at this stage. She wants to get through to March 2019 without everything going tits up.Richard_Nabavi said:
What's not clear? Out of the single market, out of the customs union, no freedom of movement, and as much of a comprehensive trade deal as we can get, including financial services. I really can't see how she could possibly be clearer. Or, to put it another way, Canada Plus Plus. The only uncertainty is the amount of the 'plus plus' that we'll be able to get, and that is something which depends on the negotiations.FF43 said:
The interesting point is that Theresa May is very keen to shut down all debate about Brexit policy until we formally leave. And no, it's far from crystal clear and certainly not the Florence speech which rejected every one of our realistic options. You can be sure when people refer to "creative solutions" and "bold new strategies" without mentioning what those solutions and strategies might be, they haven't a clue what they are talking about. There are real choices to be made, we are not making them and Mrs May is very keen we shouldn't discuss them.Richard_Nabavi said:
It's nonsense, another example of the curious phenomenon that Brexit seems to have addled the brains of people on both sides of the argument. Theresa May has been perfectly clear what she wants, it's utterly baffling that anyone accuses her of not being clear. Her Article 50 letter, and the Florence speech were as clear as crystal. However, it's a negotiation, a concept which totally seems to elude the intellect of this FT journalist and many others, and it's also subject to what can be got through parliament. That means that Theresa May doesn't get to specify unilaterally what the final deal will be. So of course she can't provide 'clarity' as to the final outcome.FF43 said:This rings true and is somewhat relevant to the topic
https://twitter.com/philipstephens/status/956392688605192193
Before the referendum it was the loonier type of Brexiteer who thought that the UK government could lay down what it wanted without asking our EU friends. Now the Continuity Remainers have joined them in making the identical mistake.0 -
ADH very nearly won. Had the election been a day later, he probably would have done.stevef said:
Gove would be a catastrophe for the Tories along the same lines as Alec Douglas Home in 1964, and William Hague in 2001.HYUFD said:
The members current favourites are Mogg, Gove and Boris in that orderTissue_Price said:
Any analysis that starts with the members is therefore flawed. And it's usually doubly flawed because of preconceptions about what matters to the members (hint: it's usually not how they voted in the referendum) and/or overinterpreting hypothetical polling. Or pseudo-polling, in ConHome's case: their series is very valuable but shouldn't be taken as gospel.Richard_Nabavi said:One of the key considerations in choosing a leader (especially in the current circumstances) is the extent to which the candidate is liked and respected by Conservative MPs - could he or she unite the party and sooth over the inevitable problems of ruffled ambitions and personal rivalries? That's especially true because it's MPs who decide who gets into the final two.
Jeremy Hunt is probably quite well placed on that score, at least in the sense that we doesn't seem to have lots of enemies who will be trying to ensure he's not in the final two. Some other of the names bandied about, such as Boris or Gavin Williamson ... well, make your own judgement.0 -
She's bloody dangerous, is what she is.Charles said:FPT
The tooth fairy certainly exists. She came by our house last night to leave some money under my daughter's pillow148grss said:
The same goes for an infinite number of "all powerful" beings. If the "all powerful" tooth fairy can make us believe they don't exist, they might exist.TheJezziah said:
I can't actually understand a hard atheism stance, because if we take for example an explanation I heard for dinosaur fossils that God put them there to test our faith, because dinosaurs conflicted with his view of the age of the Earth.
If we apply that logic of an all powerful God that is prepared to trick people into believing things that aren't true then we cannot trust absolutely anything all our science could be a trick by God which he maintains by making all the things we use it for work as well so anything you used to disprove God could simply be a trick by God. Far fetched doesn't matter only possible and with an all powerful God anything is possible.
Things that we have no positive evidence for are equivalent to things that don't exist. Things that we can't know exist (the argument that god is unknowable to to mind of man) are practically equivalent to a thing that does not exist. If you cannot present evidence for a thing, why should I believe said thing? The argument of "we have no answer for x, therefore I propose a y that means x" just begs the question of "we have no answer for y". If you can have uncaused causes (which maybe we can), why can't the universe be such a thing? If you can't have uncaused causes, what caused god?
I once slept with my head under the pillow and woke up toothless. The thirty-two pound coins piled up beside me were scant consolation.0 -
Ah yes, this is always the counter. When I point out that 'she hasn't been clear' is total bunkum, the reply is always to shift to a completely different point. So let's start by agreeing that she has been clear, shall we?FF43 said:There's no plus-plus, unless you disbelieve everyone on the EU side who has been very emphatic about this. Which gives us the Canada equivalent that Mrs May rejected in her Florence speech. As she is not prepared even to discuss those "creative solutions" and "bold new strategies" that she says are necessary, it's hard to see how the negotiations can proceed in a meaningful way. Returning to Philip Stephen's article, that's the whole point. Mrs May doesn't want a meaningful negotiation at this stage. She wants to get through to March 2019 without everything going tits up.
Moving on to the second point, how close will the final deal be to the clear position she has laid out as her goal? Well, as I said before, it's a negotiation, and we simply don't know what the final deal will be. There is not a single person on this earth who knows, that's the nature of a complex negotiation, especially when we are negotiating through Barnier and the Commission with 27 other countries. At the moment, I would say that it is extremely likely that we will get a comprehensive deal on goods. So the 'Canada' bit is, if not in the bag, at least the default worst-case outcome.
Will there be any 'Plus' or 'Plus Plus'? Hard to say, but I'm fairly optimistic. Our EU friends do seem to be waking up to the importance of the City to their economies. But neither I, nor Theresa May, nor anyone else, can provide perfect clarity. That's just the inevitable position when you enter a complex negotiation.
What's more, the lack of clarity is entirely on the EU side. What we want is clear. What they want isn't.0 -
Not everyone on the EU side has been clear. The only thing they've been clear on is "no cherry picking" so we need to formulate a deal that includes services and is reciprocal but doesn't cross other red lines.FF43 said:There's no plus-plus, unless you disbelieve everyone on the EU side who has been very emphatic about this. Which gives us the Canada equivalent that Mrs May rejected in her Florence speech. As she is not prepared even to discuss those "creative solutions" and "bold new strategies" that she says are necessary, it's hard to see how the negotiations can proceed in a meaningful way. Returning to Philip Stephen's article, that's the whole point. Mrs May doesn't want a meaningful negotiation at this stage. She wants to get through to March 2019 without everything going tits up.
Lets not forget though that European businesses rely upon financing from London, cutting that off could result in catastrophe for Europe more than finance moving to Europe.
The disruption in cutting off services to and from the UK could cause European firms greater disruption than even the Credit Crunch of 2007/08 did.
Realism will ensure a deal is reached. How it is, is up for negotiations.0 -
Theresa May and Philip Hammond stopped me from doing so.Danny565 said:
Do you not think people would ask "why would we believe you now if you've not done it in the [x] years you've been in government"?Philip_Thompson said:
If Hunt pledges £350mn a week for the NHS he would win lots of votes.HYUFD said:
Would you consider voting for him though? The ideal Tory leader would hold all the 2017 Tory vote and won over some voters who voted Labour or LD last time toorkrkrk said:Speaking as someone from the left - Hunt looks the toughest Tory to beat.
He’s a good communicator from what I’ve seen and was very successful in business previously.
He hasn’t been a good health secretary but he can justifiably argue that he has been shortchanged by Tory chancellors. If he promised the £350m/week for the NHS - I think that would certainly win the public over.0
