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  • HHemmeligHHemmelig Posts: 617
    HYUFD said:

    HHemmelig said:

    Sean_F said:

    HHemmelig said:

    stodge said:

    Sandpit said:

    I’d guess that if Mullins is serious about running, the Conservatives would put everything behind him rather than run someone against him.

    Betfair do have a market up but it hasn’t got going yet. 1.25 to back or 1.5 to lay Khan.
    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/politics/event/28051236/market?marketId=1.129790525

    So they wouldn't put up a candidate do Mullins can run as a CON-dependent ? Shades of the tactics used with Zac Goldsmith in the Richmond Park by-election and we know how that turned out.

    Do you think the Conservatives should stand aside for Mullins ? This is the London Mayoralty not a by-election.

    No. They should run a low key campaign and aim to come 3rd and hope he beats Khan in the second round. Nobody could win the mayoralty under the toxic Conservative party label at the present time. The question is whether they will eventually recover or whether London becomes the Tories' new Scotland in 10 years' time.
    London (like most capital cities) is now very left wing. The Conservatives need to focus on retaining the right wing districts.
    An uphill battle long term and their last remaining card is Corbyn. When Labour finally gets another popular centrist leader the Bromleys and Romfords will fall to Labour like ninepins.
    Bromley will never vote Labour, even Blair could not win it and the Tories won Bromley and Chislehurst with a comfortable 9,590 majority last June
    I lived in Bromley borough for 13 years. It is changing fast. I could envisage both Beckenham and Bromley & Chislehurst being Labour seats by 2030 if Labour has deserted Corbynism by then. Beckenham especially with its strong Remain lean and large population of young professionals living in increasingly rented flats. Only Orpington is utterly safe for the Tories now in a Labour landslide. Though the Tories will hold Bromley council this time Labour will make strong gains in the north of the borough.
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    It’s getting harder and harder to understand why May is keeping Johnson in the cabinet. He actively harms UK interests as foreign secretary and he has no notion of collective responsibility. What is the point?
    As he is the biggest beast in the Tory jungle after May and she cannot afford to have both Mogg and Boris on the backbenches as both have strong membership support
    That might make sense if:
    1. Johnson was any good at his job.
    2. Was not actively undermining May at every turn anyway.
    Keeping him in place just makes her look incredibly weak. Which she is, I guess. But if ever there were an example of a PM putting partybefore country, this is it.
    Boris is at least a Foreign Secretary most of the world has heard of and has reasonable relationships with the White House and Macron's team, as he showed last week over the Channel bridge which Macron supported and even the Russians take him seriously
    Do you actually believe this nonsense, Mr HY?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 19,657
    Y0kel said:

    Nigel Farage's rumoured return to the political foreground has an ulterior motive. Protection via profile. Farage is a traitor to his country and indeed to the liberal democratic values that enabled the causes for which he claims to represent to succeed.

    He is under more than one investigation and may soon have trouble travelling. By re-establishing his profile he can seek to make any case against him as a political witch hunt.



    Yokel, I've little idea what you're talking about, but in general we try to avoid saying things that might get Mike into legal trouble. You appear to be using the word not in the kind of everyday rhetoric that we sometimes see here but as a specific allegation. I've no brief for Farage but I suggest some restraint.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    What in the name of god is this circular firing squad within Conservative ranks that believe Mogg is in anyway going to be a net vote winner in the country.

    He is the political equivalent of a novelty act. All mildly amusing but will not carry.

    People said the same about Corbyn, after 5 years of a Corbyn government even Mogg might have a chance
    Is a weak option. Who are these people that make him out to be some kind of giant, the same bunch that once formed the Daniel Hannan fan club?

    Party politicos can be as thick as horse shit sometimes.

    In 2017 it doesn't matter how close Corbyn came, he still lost. Unless the Conservatives end up in the kind of infighting that was a feature of the early to mid 90s Corbyn will likely fail to bring Labour to power. Too divisive.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    The same Labour voters who dislike Boris are the ones who think Ken Clarke would have won elections for the blue team.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    It’s getting harder and harder to understand why May is keeping Johnson in the cabinet. He actively harms UK interests as foreign secretary and he has no notion of collective responsibility. What is the point?

    As he is the biggest beast in the Tory jungle after May and she cannot afford to have both Mogg and Boris on the backbenches as both have strong membership support

    That might make sense if:
    1. Johnson was any good at his job.
    2. Was not actively undermining May at every turn anyway.
    Keeping him in place just makes her look incredibly weak. Which she is, I guess. But if ever there were an example of a PM putting partybefore country, this is it.

    Boris is at least a Foreign Secretary most of the world has heard of and has reasonable relationships with the White House and Macron's team, as he showed last week over the Channel bridge which Macron supported and even the Russians take him seriously

    Boris is scorned atound the world. It is true, though, that his plan to turn the Tories into a cheerleading party for Donald Trump are likely to make him popular in the White House.

  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    What in the name of god is this circular firing squad within Conservative ranks that believe Mogg is in anyway going to be a net vote winner in the country.
    He is the political equivalent of a novelty act. All mildly amusing but will not carry.

    People said the same about Corbyn, after 5 years of a Corbyn government even Mogg might have a chance
    After five years of Corbyn government, people are going to turn their back on irresponsible mad extremists, don`t you think?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 102,990

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    It’s getting harder and harder to understand why May is keeping Johnson in the cabinet. He actively harms UK interests as foreign secretary and he has no notion of collective responsibility. What is the point?

    As he is the biggest beast in the Tory jungle after May and she cannot afford to have both Mogg and Boris on the backbenches as both have strong membership support

    That might make sense if:
    1. Johnson was any good at his job.
    2. Was not actively undermining May at every turn anyway.
    Keeping him in place just makes her look incredibly weak. Which she is, I guess. But if ever there were an example of a PM putting partybefore country, this is it.

    Boris is at least a Foreign Secretary most of the world has heard of and has reasonable relationships with the White House and Macron's team, as he showed last week over the Channel bridge which Macron supported and even the Russians take him seriously

    Boris is scorned atound the world. It is true, though, that his plan to turn the Tories into a cheerleading party for Donald Trump are likely to make him popular in the White House.

    No, he is scorned by left liberals, a big difference.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307

    Y0kel said:

    Nigel Farage's rumoured return to the political foreground has an ulterior motive. Protection via profile. Farage is a traitor to his country and indeed to the liberal democratic values that enabled the causes for which he claims to represent to succeed.

    He is under more than one investigation and may soon have trouble travelling. By re-establishing his profile he can seek to make any case against him as a political witch hunt.



    Yokel, I've little idea what you're talking about, but in general we try to avoid saying things that might get Mike into legal trouble. You appear to be using the word not in the kind of everyday rhetoric that we sometimes see here but as a specific allegation. I've no brief for Farage but I suggest some restraint.
    The moderators can delete if unhappy.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 102,990
    edited January 2018
    PClipp said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    It’s getting harder and harder to understand why May is keeping Johnson in the cabinet. He actively harms UK interests as foreign secretary and he has no notion of collective responsibility. What is the point?
    As he is the biggest beast in the Tory jungle after May and she cannot afford to have both Mogg and Boris on the backbenches as both have strong membership support
    That might make sense if:
    1. Johnson was any good at his job.
    2. Was not actively undermining May at every turn anyway.
    Keeping him in place just makes her look incredibly weak. Which she is, I guess. But if ever there were an example of a PM putting partybefore country, this is it.
    Boris is at least a Foreign Secretary most of the world has heard of and has reasonable relationships with the White House and Macron's team, as he showed last week over the Channel bridge which Macron supported and even the Russians take him seriously
    Do you actually believe this nonsense, Mr HY?
    Boris is a big hitter and makes an impact at the FO, certainly more than Hammond did or even Hague
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    HYUFD said:

    PClipp said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    It’s getting harder and harder to understand why May is keeping Johnson in the cabinet. He actively harms UK interests as foreign secretary and he has no notion of collective responsibility. What is the point?
    As he is the biggest beast in the Tory jungle after May and she cannot afford to have both Mogg and Boris on the backbenches as both have strong membership support
    That might make sense if:
    1. Johnson was any good at his job.
    2. Was not actively undermining May at every turn anyway.
    Keeping him in place just makes her look incredibly weak. Which she is, I guess. But if ever there were an example of a PM putting partybefore country, this is it.
    Boris is at least a Foreign Secretary most of the world has heard of and has reasonable relationships with the White House and Macron's team, as he showed last week over the Channel bridge which Macron supported and even the Russians take him seriously
    Do you actually believe this nonsense, Mr HY?
    Boris is a big hitter and makes an impact, certainly more than Hammond did or even Hague
    That`s not saying much. But he is even more negative than they were. I include Hammond in the past tense.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 35,469

    Y0kel said:

    Nigel Farage's rumoured return to the political foreground has an ulterior motive. Protection via profile. Farage is a traitor to his country and indeed to the liberal democratic values that enabled the causes for which he claims to represent to succeed.

    He is under more than one investigation and may soon have trouble travelling. By re-establishing his profile he can seek to make any case against him as a political witch hunt.



    Yokel, I've little idea what you're talking about, but in general we try to avoid saying things that might get Mike into legal trouble. You appear to be using the word not in the kind of everyday rhetoric that we sometimes see here but as a specific allegation. I've no brief for Farage but I suggest some restraint.
    There's also been a lot of big talk about Trump from Yokel to no avail. It's all getting a bit Tapestry. It's time to put up or shut up.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    Trumpton

    There are conversations about another US missile strike on Assad regime targets. Verifiable chemical weapons attacks by his regime is going to the reason if they do it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 102,990
    HHemmelig said:

    HYUFD said:

    HHemmelig said:

    Sean_F said:

    HHemmelig said:

    stodge said:

    Sandpit said:

    I’d guess that if Mullins is serious about running, the Conservatives would put everything behind him rather than run someone against him.

    Betfair do have a market up but it hasn’t got going yet. 1.25 to back or 1.5 to lay Khan.
    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/politics/event/28051236/market?marketId=1.129790525

    So they wouldn't put up a candidate do Mullins can run as a CON-dependent ? Shades of the tactics used with Zac Goldsmith in the Richmond Park by-election and we know how that turned out.

    Do you think the Conservatives should stand aside for Mullins ? This is the London Mayoralty not a by-election.

    No. They should run a low key campaign and aim to come 3rd and hope he beats Khan in the second round. Nobody could win the mayoralty under the toxic Conservative party label at the present time. The question is whether they will eventually recover or whether London becomes the Tories' new Scotland in 10 years' time.
    London (like most capital cities) is now very left wing. The Conservatives need to focus on retaining the right wing districts.
    An uphill battle long term and their last remaining card is Corbyn. When Labour finally gets another popular centrist leader the Bromleys and Romfords will fall to Labour like ninepins.
    Bromley will never vote Labour, even Blair could not win it and the Tories won Bromley and Chislehurst with a comfortable 9,590 majority last June
    I lived in Bromley borough for 13 years. It is changing fast. I could envisage both Beckenham and Bromley & Chislehurst being Labour seats by 2030 if Labour has deserted Corbynism by then. Beckenham especially with its strong Remain lean and large population of young professionals living in increasingly rented flats. Only Orpington is utterly safe for the Tories now in a Labour landslide. Though the Tories will hold Bromley council this time Labour will make strong gains in the north of the borough.
    Chislehurst is overwhelmingly Tory, basically Surrey in south London and that ensures it will never go Labour, Beckenham had a 15,087 Tory majority at the general election. Labour is only strong on the Lewisham border
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 37,243
    edited January 2018
    HYUFD said:

    PClipp said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    It’s getting harder and harder to understand why May is keeping Johnson in the cabinet. He actively harms UK interests as foreign secretary and he has no notion of collective responsibility. What is the point?
    As he is the biggest beast in the Tory jungle after May and she cannot afford to have both Mogg and Boris on the backbenches as both have strong membership support
    That might make sense if:
    1. Johnson was any good at his job.
    2. Was not actively undermining May at every turn anyway.
    Keeping him in place just makes her look incredibly weak. Which she is, I guess. But if ever there were an example of a PM putting partybefore country, this is it.
    Boris is at least a Foreign Secretary most of the world has heard of and has reasonable relationships with the White House and Macron's team, as he showed last week over the Channel bridge which Macron supported and even the Russians take him seriously
    Do you actually believe this nonsense, Mr HY?
    Boris is a big hitter and makes an impact at the FO, certainly more than Hammond did or even Hague

    Yep, the impact is he damages Britain’s reputation and our interests, and causes harm to individual British citizens abroad. As you say, he only has the job because May fears what he’d do on the backbenches.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 102,990
    Y0kel said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    What in the name of god is this circular firing squad within Conservative ranks that believe Mogg is in anyway going to be a net vote winner in the country.

    He is the political equivalent of a novelty act. All mildly amusing but will not carry.

    People said the same about Corbyn, after 5 years of a Corbyn government even Mogg might have a chance
    Is a weak option. Who are these people that make him out to be some kind of giant, the same bunch that once formed the Daniel Hannan fan club?

    Party politicos can be as thick as horse shit sometimes.

    In 2017 it doesn't matter how close Corbyn came, he still lost. Unless the Conservatives end up in the kind of infighting that was a feature of the early to mid 90s Corbyn will likely fail to bring Labour to power. Too divisive.
    The next election could even be Rees-Mogg v Corbyn
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    It’s getting harder and harder to understand why May is keeping Johnson in the cabinet. He actively harms UK interests as foreign secretary and he has no notion of collective responsibility. What is the point?

    As he is the biggest beast in the Tory jungle after May and she cannot afford to have both Mogg and Boris on the backbenches as both have strong membership support

    That might make sense if:
    1. Johnson was any good at his job.
    2. Was not actively undermining May at every turn anyway.
    Keeping him in place just makes her look incredibly weak. Which she is, I guess. But if ever there were an example of a PM putting partybefore country, this is it.

    Boris is at least a Foreign Secretary most of the world has heard of and has reasonable relationships with the White House and Macron's team, as he showed last week over the Channel bridge which Macron supported and even the Russians take him seriously

    Boris is scorned atound the world. It is true, though, that his plan to turn the Tories into a cheerleading party for Donald Trump are likely to make him popular in the White House.

    No, he is scorned by left liberals, a big difference.

    If by left liberals you mean anyone who is to the left of Donald Trump you probably have a point.

  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    MaxPB said:

    Y0kel said:

    Nigel Farage's rumoured return to the political foreground has an ulterior motive. Protection via profile. Farage is a traitor to his country and indeed to the liberal democratic values that enabled the causes for which he claims to represent to succeed.

    He is under more than one investigation and may soon have trouble travelling. By re-establishing his profile he can seek to make any case against him as a political witch hunt.



    Yokel, I've little idea what you're talking about, but in general we try to avoid saying things that might get Mike into legal trouble. You appear to be using the word not in the kind of everyday rhetoric that we sometimes see here but as a specific allegation. I've no brief for Farage but I suggest some restraint.
    There's also been a lot of big talk about Trump from Yokel to no avail. It's all getting a bit Tapestry. It's time to put up or shut up.
    Are you aware of an FBI investigation into links between the Trump campaign and 3rd party actors? I believe a number of Trump campaign associates have been charged so far. Worth checking the news, you might find information there.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 35,469
    Y0kel said:

    MaxPB said:

    Y0kel said:

    Nigel Farage's rumoured return to the political foreground has an ulterior motive. Protection via profile. Farage is a traitor to his country and indeed to the liberal democratic values that enabled the causes for which he claims to represent to succeed.

    He is under more than one investigation and may soon have trouble travelling. By re-establishing his profile he can seek to make any case against him as a political witch hunt.



    Yokel, I've little idea what you're talking about, but in general we try to avoid saying things that might get Mike into legal trouble. You appear to be using the word not in the kind of everyday rhetoric that we sometimes see here but as a specific allegation. I've no brief for Farage but I suggest some restraint.
    There's also been a lot of big talk about Trump from Yokel to no avail. It's all getting a bit Tapestry. It's time to put up or shut up.
    Are you aware of an FBI investigation into links between the Trump campaign and 3rd party actors? I believe a number of Trump campaign associates have been charged so far. Worth checking the news, you might find information there.
    And yet Trump is still sitting in the oval office.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    What in the name of god is this circular firing squad within Conservative ranks that believe Mogg is in anyway going to be a net vote winner in the country.

    He is the political equivalent of a novelty act. All mildly amusing but will not carry.

    People said the same about Corbyn, after 5 years of a Corbyn government even Mogg might have a chance
    Is a weak option. Who are these people that make him out to be some kind of giant, the same bunch that once formed the Daniel Hannan fan club?

    Party politicos can be as thick as horse shit sometimes.

    In 2017 it doesn't matter how close Corbyn came, he still lost. Unless the Conservatives end up in the kind of infighting that was a feature of the early to mid 90s Corbyn will likely fail to bring Labour to power. Too divisive.
    The next election could even be Rees-Mogg v Corbyn
    Really, if the Conservatives are that stupid, they deserve all they get.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 102,990

    HYUFD said:

    PClipp said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    It’s getting harder and harder to understand why May is keeping Johnson in the cabinet. He actively harms UK interests as foreign secretary and he has no notion of collective responsibility. What is the point?
    As he is the biggest beast in the Tory jungle after May and she cannot afford to have both Mogg and Boris on the backbenches as both have strong membership support
    That might make sense if:
    1. Johnson was any good at his job.
    2. Was not actively undermining May at every turn anyway.
    Keeping him in place just makes her look incredibly weak. Which she is, I guess. But if ever there were an example of a PM putting partybefore country, this is it.
    Boris is at least a Foreign Secretary most of the world has heard of and has reasonable relationships with the White House and Macron's team, as he showed last week over the Channel bridge which Macron supported and even the Russians take him seriously
    Do you actually believe this nonsense, Mr HY?
    Boris is a big hitter and makes an impact at the FO, certainly more than Hammond did or even Hague

    Yep, the impact is he damages Britain’s reputation and our interests, and causes harm to individual British citizens abroad. As you say, he only has the job because May fears what he’d do on the backbenches.

    No he doesn't, outside of the perception of left liberals
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 102,990
    Y0kel said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    What in the name of god is this circular firing squad within Conservative ranks that believe Mogg is in anyway going to be a net vote winner in the country.

    He is the political equivalent of a novelty act. All mildly amusing but will not carry.

    People said the same about Corbyn, after 5 years of a Corbyn government even Mogg might have a chance
    Is a weak option. Who are these people that make him out to be some kind of giant, the same bunch that once formed the Daniel Hannan fan club?

    Party politicos can be as thick as horse shit sometimes.

    In 2017 it doesn't matter how close Corbyn came, he still lost. Unless the Conservatives end up in the kind of infighting that was a feature of the early to mid 90s Corbyn will likely fail to bring Labour to power. Too divisive.
    The next election could even be Rees-Mogg v Corbyn
    Really, if the Conservatives are that stupid, they deserve all they get.
    Rees-Mogg and Boris at least motivate the Tory vote which was more than can be said for last time
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,270
    Farage's endorsement may do a fair bit of good for Bolton, however I sense the Putsch is in with a good chance....29% of the members is not a great base for his platform, I wonder how many of those members who voted in Aug/Sep are still there - esp if their preferred candidate did not do well - the collapse in membership may just save Bolton.

  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    PClipp said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    It’s getting harder and harder to understand why May is keeping Johnson in the cabinet. He actively harms UK interests as foreign secretary and he has no notion of collective responsibility. What is the point?
    As he is the biggest beast in the Tory jungle after May and she cannot afford to have both Mogg and Boris on the backbenches as both have strong membership support
    That might make sense if:
    1. Johnson was any good at his job.
    2. Was not actively undermining May at every turn anyway.
    Keeping him in place just makes her look incredibly weak. Which she is, I guess. But if ever there were an example of a PM putting partybefore country, this is it.
    Boris is at least a Foreign Secretary most of the world has heard of and has reasonable relationships with the White House and Macron's team, as he showed last week over the Channel bridge which Macron supported and even the Russians take him seriously
    Do you actually believe this nonsense, Mr HY?
    Boris is a big hitter and makes an impact at the FO, certainly more than Hammond did or even Hague

    Yep, the impact is he damages Britain’s reputation and our interests, and causes harm to individual British citizens abroad. As you say, he only has the job because May fears what he’d do on the backbenches.

    No he doesn't, outside of the perception of left liberals

    Of course :-D

  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    MaxPB said:

    Y0kel said:

    MaxPB said:

    Y0kel said:

    Nigel Farage's rumoured return to the political foreground has an ulterior motive. Protection via profile. Farage is a traitor to his country and indeed to the liberal democratic values that enabled the causes for which he claims to represent to succeed.

    He is under more than one investigation and may soon have trouble travelling. By re-establishing his profile he can seek to make any case against him as a political witch hunt.



    Yokel, I've little idea what you're talking about, but in general we try to avoid saying things that might get Mike into legal trouble. You appear to be using the word not in the kind of everyday rhetoric that we sometimes see here but as a specific allegation. I've no brief for Farage but I suggest some restraint.
    There's also been a lot of big talk about Trump from Yokel to no avail. It's all getting a bit Tapestry. It's time to put up or shut up.
    Are you aware of an FBI investigation into links between the Trump campaign and 3rd party actors? I believe a number of Trump campaign associates have been charged so far. Worth checking the news, you might find information there.
    And yet Trump is still sitting in the oval office.
    There wasnt a single person on this forum who pretty much didn't pooh-pooh this whole Trump-Russia issue when I went banging on about it before the election. Well its still there and its subject to a law enforcement investigation. I can't think of anyone on here who thought it'd get to that.

    You think this thing gets wrapped up in a week? The extent of foreign influence is really really large. This is years in the making. I made no claim as to Trump's lonegevity other than I didn't expect him to get a 2nd term. Thats about it.

    And I still believe he wont.
  • Y0kelY0kel Posts: 2,307
    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    What in the name of god is this circular firing squad within Conservative ranks that believe Mogg is in anyway going to be a net vote winner in the country.

    He is the political equivalent of a novelty act. All mildly amusing but will not carry.

    People said the same about Corbyn, after 5 years of a Corbyn government even Mogg might have a chance
    Is a weak option. Who are these people that make him out to be some kind of giant, the same bunch that once formed the Daniel Hannan fan club?

    Party politicos can be as thick as horse shit sometimes.

    In 2017 it doesn't matter how close Corbyn came, he still lost. Unless the Conservatives end up in the kind of infighting that was a feature of the early to mid 90s Corbyn will likely fail to bring Labour to power. Too divisive.
    The next election could even be Rees-Mogg v Corbyn
    Really, if the Conservatives are that stupid, they deserve all they get.
    Rees-Mogg and Boris at least motivate the Tory vote which was more than can be said for last time
    Boris has the ability to extend out beyond the core, if for no other reason than profile. Mogg?

    Just cannot see it.
  • HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    What in the name of god is this circular firing squad within Conservative ranks that believe Mogg is in anyway going to be a net vote winner in the country.

    He is the political equivalent of a novelty act. All mildly amusing but will not carry.

    People said the same about Corbyn, after 5 years of a Corbyn government even Mogg might have a chance
    Is a weak option. Who are these people that make him out to be some kind of giant, the same bunch that once formed the Daniel Hannan fan club?

    Party politicos can be as thick as horse shit sometimes.

    In 2017 it doesn't matter how close Corbyn came, he still lost. Unless the Conservatives end up in the kind of infighting that was a feature of the early to mid 90s Corbyn will likely fail to bring Labour to power. Too divisive.
    The next election could even be Rees-Mogg v Corbyn
    Really, if the Conservatives are that stupid, they deserve all they get.
    Rees-Mogg and Boris at least motivate the Tory vote which was more than can be said for last time
    Boris won London twice, in 2008 and 2012.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 102,990
    Y0kel said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    What in the name of god is this circular firing squad within Conservative ranks that believe Mogg is in anyway going to be a net vote winner in the country.

    He is the political equivalent of a novelty act. All mildly amusing but will not carry.

    People said the same about Corbyn, after 5 years of a Corbyn government even Mogg might have a chance
    Is a weak option. Who are these people that make him out to be some kind of giant, the same bunch that once formed the Daniel Hannan fan club?

    Party politicos can be as thick as horse shit sometimes.

    In 2017 it doesn't matter how close Corbyn came, he still lost. Unless the Conservatives end up in the kind of infighting that was a feature of the early to mid 90s Corbyn will likely fail to bring Labour to power. Too divisive.
    The next election could even be Rees-Mogg v Corbyn
    Really, if the Conservatives are that stupid, they deserve all they get.
    Rees-Mogg and Boris at least motivate the Tory vote which was more than can be said for last time
    Boris has the ability to extend out beyond the core, if for no other reason than profile. Mogg?

    Just cannot see it.
    I would prefer Boris but Mogg could at least rally the core vote
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    What in the name of god is this circular firing squad within Conservative ranks that believe Mogg is in anyway going to be a net vote winner in the country.

    He is the political equivalent of a novelty act. All mildly amusing but will not carry.

    People said the same about Corbyn, after 5 years of a Corbyn government even Mogg might have a chance
    Is a weak option. Who are these people that make him out to be some kind of giant, the same bunch that once formed the Daniel Hannan fan club?

    Party politicos can be as thick as horse shit sometimes.

    In 2017 it doesn't matter how close Corbyn came, he still lost. Unless the Conservatives end up in the kind of infighting that was a feature of the early to mid 90s Corbyn will likely fail to bring Labour to power. Too divisive.
    The next election could even be Rees-Mogg v Corbyn
    Really, if the Conservatives are that stupid, they deserve all they get.
    Rees-Mogg and Boris at least motivate the Tory vote which was more than can be said for last time
    Well they got some votes from somewhere...

  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    What in the name of god is this circular firing squad within Conservative ranks that believe Mogg is in anyway going to be a net vote winner in the country.

    He is the political equivalent of a novelty act. All mildly amusing but will not carry.

    People said the same about Corbyn, after 5 years of a Corbyn government even Mogg might have a chance
    Is a weak option. Who are these people that make him out to be some kind of giant, the same bunch that once formed the Daniel Hannan fan club?
    Party politicos can be as thick as horse shit sometimes.
    In 2017 it doesn't matter how close Corbyn came, he still lost. Unless the Conservatives end up in the kind of infighting that was a feature of the early to mid 90s Corbyn will likely fail to bring Labour to power. Too divisive.
    The next election could even be Rees-Mogg v Corbyn
    Really, if the Conservatives are that stupid, they deserve all they get.
    Rees-Mogg and Boris at least motivate the Tory vote which was more than can be said for last time
    Boris has the ability to extend out beyond the core, if for no other reason than profile. Mogg? Just cannot see it.
    I would prefer Boris but Mogg could at least rally the core vote
    Your problem is that "the core Tory vote" is microscopic. The Tory vote at the last election was largely an anti-Corbyn vote, nothing more. At the same time that the Labour vote was built on waffle, false promises and hints that Corbyn had no intention of fulfilling.

    You suppose that Johnson is somehow attractive. That was when he was just a buffoon. Now he has proved himself to be highly damaging to British interests, destroying the economy and British reputation as he goes. His profile high thoroughly negative.

    The Tories after may are finished. In my humble opinion, of course.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 102,990

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    What in the name of god is this circular firing squad within Conservative ranks that believe Mogg is in anyway going to be a net vote winner in the country.

    He is the political equivalent of a novelty act. All mildly amusing but will not carry.

    People said the same about Corbyn, after 5 years of a Corbyn government even Mogg might have a chance
    Is a weak option. Who are these people that make him out to be some kind of giant, the same bunch that once formed the Daniel Hannan fan club?

    Party politicos can be as thick as horse shit sometimes.

    In 2017 it doesn't matter how close Corbyn came, he still lost. Unless the Conservatives end up in the kind of infighting that was a feature of the early to mid 90s Corbyn will likely fail to bring Labour to power. Too divisive.
    The next election could even be Rees-Mogg v Corbyn
    Really, if the Conservatives are that stupid, they deserve all they get.
    Rees-Mogg and Boris at least motivate the Tory vote which was more than can be said for last time
    Boris won London twice, in 2008 and 2012.
    Yes, he has charisma and electoral appeal
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 102,990
    PClipp said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    What in the name of god is this circular firing squad within Conservative ranks that believe Mogg is in anyway going to be a net vote winner in the country.

    He is the political equivalent of a novelty act. All mildly amusing but will not carry.

    People said the same about Corbyn, after 5 years of a Corbyn government even Mogg might have a chance
    Is a weak option. Who are these people that make him out to be some kind of giant, the same bunch that once formed the Daniel Hannan fan club?
    Party politicos can be as thick as horse shit sometimes.
    In 2017 it doesn't matter how close Corbyn came, he still lost. Unless the Conservatives end up in the kind of infighting that was a feature of the early to mid 90s Corbyn will likely fail to bring Labour to power. Too divisive.
    The next election could even be Rees-Mogg v Corbyn
    Really, if the Conservatives are that stupid, they deserve all they get.
    Rees-Mogg and Boris at least motivate the Tory vote which was more than can be said for last time
    Boris has the ability to extend out beyond the core, if for no other reason than profile. Mogg? Just cannot see it.
    I would prefer Boris but Mogg could at least rally the core vote
    Your problem is that "the core Tory vote" is microscopic. The Tory vote at the last election was largely an anti-Corbyn vote, nothing more. At the same time that the Labour vote was built on waffle, false promises and hints that Corbyn had no intention of fulfilling.

    You suppose that Johnson is somehow attractive. That was when he was just a buffoon. Now he has proved himself to be highly damaging to British interests, destroying the economy and British reputation as he goes. His profile high thoroughly negative.

    The Tories after may are finished. In my humble opinion, of course.
    Diehard Remainers may like Boris but he does not need to worry about them, he just needs to get most of the 52%.

    Neither of the main parties is ever finished, the same was said of Labour in 1983 or 2010 or the Tories in 1997 or 1945, the pendulum always turns eventually
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    What in the name of god is this circular firing squad within Conservative ranks that believe Mogg is in anyway going to be a net vote winner in the country.
    He is the political equivalent of a novelty act. All mildly amusing but will not carry.

    People said the same about Corbyn, after 5 years of a Corbyn government even Mogg might have a chance
    Is a weak option. Who are these people that make him out to be some kind of giant, the same bunch that once formed the Daniel Hannan fan club?
    Party politicos can be as thick as horse shit sometimes.
    In 2017 it doesn't matter how close Corbyn came, he still lost. Unless the Conservatives end up in the kind of infighting that was a feature of the early to mid 90s Corbyn will likely fail to bring Labour to power. Too divisive.
    The next election could even be Rees-Mogg v Corbyn
    Really, if the Conservatives are that stupid, they deserve all they get.
    Rees-Mogg and Boris at least motivate the Tory vote which was more than can be said for last time
    Boris won London twice, in 2008 and 2012.
    Yes, he has charisma and electoral appeal
    Well, he is certainly different, in the same sort of way that Trump is different, but we wouldn`t want Trump governing us, would we?

    And just how many people take Boris Johnson seriously? Anywhere in the word.....
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 16,252
    PClipp said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    What in the name of god is this circular firing squad within Conservative ranks that believe Mogg is in anyway going to be a net vote winner in the country.

    He is the political equivalent of a novelty act. All mildly amusing but will not carry.

    People said the same about Corbyn, after 5 years of a Corbyn government even Mogg might have a chance
    Is a weak option. Who are these people that make him out to be some kind of giant, the same bunch that once formed the Daniel Hannan fan club?
    Party politicos can be as thick as horse shit sometimes.
    In 2017 it doesn't matter how close Corbyn came, he still lost. Unless the Conservatives end up in the kind of infighting that was a feature of the early to mid 90s Corbyn will likely fail to bring Labour to power. Too divisive.
    The next election could even be Rees-Mogg v Corbyn
    Really, if the Conservatives are that stupid, they deserve all they get.
    Rees-Mogg and Boris at least motivate the Tory vote which was more than can be said for last time
    Boris has the ability to extend out beyond the core, if for no other reason than profile. Mogg? Just cannot see it.
    I would prefer Boris but Mogg could at least rally the core vote
    Your problem is that "the core Tory vote" is microscopic. The Tory vote at the last election was largely an anti-Corbyn vote, nothing more. At the same time that the Labour vote was built on waffle, false promises and hints that Corbyn had no intention of fulfilling.

    You suppose that Johnson is somehow attractive. That was when he was just a buffoon. Now he has proved himself to be highly damaging to British interests, destroying the economy and British reputation as he goes. His profile high thoroughly negative.

    The Tories after may are finished. In my humble opinion, of course.
    As people have been saying since 1830.

    There will always be a centre-right party. It's not always guaranteed to be the Tories but there's nothing that can replace it right now.
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,270
    Boris, is overstated, as a younger man he was a bit like Cameron - fresh faced, liberal sounding and "new".

    Now he is a podgy establishment figure with a list of gaffes that are now dull, who is also seen as disloyal, somewhat headline grabbing and self-interested. He may win over ladies of a certain age in the Shires but that will bring new voters to the fold, Foreign secretary will not let him have the UK presence he craves (not many follow summits about Korea in Canada in the UK media).

    If it comes to a Rees-Mogg or BJ showdown Boris will edge it, but only because R-M is so weird to a lot of voters.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 16,252
    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    What in the name of god is this circular firing squad within Conservative ranks that believe Mogg is in anyway going to be a net vote winner in the country.

    He is the political equivalent of a novelty act. All mildly amusing but will not carry.

    People said the same about Corbyn, after 5 years of a Corbyn government even Mogg might have a chance
    Is a weak option. Who are these people that make him out to be some kind of giant, the same bunch that once formed the Daniel Hannan fan club?

    Party politicos can be as thick as horse shit sometimes.

    In 2017 it doesn't matter how close Corbyn came, he still lost. Unless the Conservatives end up in the kind of infighting that was a feature of the early to mid 90s Corbyn will likely fail to bring Labour to power. Too divisive.
    The next election could even be Rees-Mogg v Corbyn
    Really, if the Conservatives are that stupid, they deserve all they get.
    Rees-Mogg and Boris at least motivate the Tory vote which was more than can be said for last time
    Boris has the ability to extend out beyond the core, if for no other reason than profile. Mogg?

    Just cannot see it.
    I would prefer Boris but Mogg could at least rally the core vote
    Rallying the core vote is what you do as a defensive measure when the other side dominates the centre. This is not the time for that.
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    PClipp said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    It’s getting harder and harder to understand why May is keeping Johnson in the cabinet. He actively harms UK interests as foreign secretary and he has no notion of collective responsibility. What is the point?
    As he is the biggest beast in the Tory jungle after May and she cannot afford to have both Mogg and Boris on the backbenches as both have strong membership support
    That might make sense if:
    1. Johnson was any good at his job.
    2. Was not actively undermining May at every turn anyway.
    Keeping him in place just makes her look incredibly weak. Which she is, I guess. But if ever there were an example of a PM putting partybefore country, this is it.
    Boris is at least a Foreign Secretary most of the world has heard of and has reasonable relationships with the White House and Macron's team, as he showed last week over the Channel bridge which Macron supported and even the Russians take him seriously
    Do you actually believe this nonsense, Mr HY?
    Boris is a big hitter and makes an impact at the FO, certainly more than Hammond did or even Hague

    Yep, the impact is he damages Britain’s reputation and our interests, and causes harm to individual British citizens abroad. As you say, he only has the job because May fears what he’d do on the backbenches.

    No he doesn't, outside of the perception of left liberals
    Agreed - the only British national you can argue he might have impacted negatively on was also an Iranian national who was in jail in Iran. Sadly dual nationals in their other country of nationality aren't regarded or treated as citizens of anywhere else.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 42,074
    IDS plays the WW2 card again.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/01/22/brexit-appeasement-cbi-gets-big-decisions-wrong-just-point/

    When one reflects on the EU-funded CBI’s record over the years, it seem to have got an enormous number of decisions wrong.

    The predecessor to the CBI, the FBI, (Federation of British Industries) supported appeasement and in 1939, while attending a conference in Germany with the Reichgruppe on the day tanks rolled into Prague, simply released a statement that “political difficulties have nothing to do with industrialists."
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 102,990
    PClipp said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    What in the name of god is this circular firing squad within Conservative ranks that believe Mogg is in anyway going to be a net vote winner in the country.
    He is the political equivalent of a novelty act. All mildly amusing but will not carry.

    People said the same about Corbyn, after 5 years of a Corbyn government even Mogg might have a chance
    Is a weak option. Who are these people that make him out to be some kind of giant, the same bunch that once formed the Daniel Hannan fan club?
    Party politicos can be as thick as horse shit sometimes.
    In 2017 it doesn't matter how close Corbyn came, he still lost. Unless the Conservatives end up in the kind of infighting that was a feature of the early to mid 90s Corbyn will likely fail to bring Labour to power. Too divisive.
    The next election could even be Rees-Mogg v Corbyn
    Really, if the Conservatives are that stupid, they deserve all they get.
    Rees-Mogg and Boris at least motivate the Tory vote which was more than can be said for last time
    Boris won London twice, in 2008 and 2012.
    Yes, he has charisma and electoral appeal
    Well, he is certainly different, in the same sort of way that Trump is different, but we wouldn`t want Trump governing us, would we?

    And just how many people take Boris Johnson seriously? Anywhere in the word.....
    Trump won whether you wanted him or not
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 102,990
    edited January 2018

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    What in the name of god is this circular firing squad within Conservative ranks that believe Mogg is in anyway going to be a net vote winner in the country.

    He is the political equivalent of a novelty act. All mildly amusing but will not carry.

    People said the same about Corbyn, after 5 years of a Corbyn government even Mogg might have a chance
    Is a weak option. Who are these people that make him out to be some kind of giant, the same bunch that once formed the Daniel Hannan fan club?

    Party politicos can be as thick as horse shit sometimes.

    In 2017 it doesn't matter how close Corbyn came, he still lost. Unless the Conservatives end up in the kind of infighting that was a feature of the early to mid 90s Corbyn will likely fail to bring Labour to power. Too divisive.
    The next election could even be Rees-Mogg v Corbyn
    Really, if the Conservatives are that stupid, they deserve all they get.
    Rees-Mogg and Boris at least motivate the Tory vote which was more than can be said for last time
    Boris has the ability to extend out beyond the core, if for no other reason than profile. Mogg?

    Just cannot see it.
    I would prefer Boris but Mogg could at least rally the core vote
    Rallying the core vote is what you do as a defensive measure when the other side dominates the centre. This is not the time for that.
    Corbyn has rallied his core vote, if the Tories rally theirs too the centre could go either way
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 102,990
    brendan16 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    PClipp said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    It’s getting harder and harder to understand why May is keeping Johnson in the cabinet. He actively harms UK interests as foreign secretary and he has no notion of collective responsibility. What is the point?
    As he is the biggest beast in the Tory jungle after May and she cannot afford to have both Mogg and Boris on the backbenches as both have strong membership support
    That might make sense if:
    1. Johnson was any good at his job.
    2. Was not actively undermining May at every turn anyway.
    Keeping him in place just makes her look incredibly weak. Which she is, I guess. But if ever there were an example of a PM putting partybefore country, this is it.
    Boris is at least a Foreign Secretary most of the world has heard of and has reasonable relationships with the White House and Macron's team, as he showed last week over the Channel bridge which Macron supported and even the Russians take him seriously
    Do you actually believe this nonsense, Mr HY?
    Boris is a big hitter and makes an impact at the FO, certainly more than Hammond did or even Hague

    Yep, the impact is he damages Britain’s reputation and our interests, and causes harm to individual British citizens abroad. As you say, he only has the job because May fears what he’d do on the backbenches.

    No he doesn't, outside of the perception of left liberals
    Agreed - the only British national you can argue he might have impacted negatively on was also an Iranian national who was in jail in Iran. Sadly dual nationals in their other country of nationality aren't regarded or treated as citizens of anywhere else.
    Even she could be released next month
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    HYUFD said:

    PClipp said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    What in the name of god is this circular firing squad within Conservative ranks that believe Mogg is in anyway going to be a net vote winner in the country.
    He is the political equivalent of a novelty act. All mildly amusing but will not carry.

    People said the same about Corbyn, after 5 years of a Corbyn government even Mogg might have a chance
    Is a weak option. Who are these people that make him out to be some kind of giant, the same bunch that once formed the Daniel Hannan fan club?
    Party politicos can be as thick as horse shit sometimes.
    In 2017 it doesn't matter how close Corbyn came, he still lost. Unless the Conservatives end up in the kind of infighting that was a feature of the early to mid 90s Corbyn will likely fail to bring Labour to power. Too divisive.
    The next election could even be Rees-Mogg v Corbyn
    Really, if the Conservatives are that stupid, they deserve all they get.
    Rees-Mogg and Boris at least motivate the Tory vote which was more than can be said for last time
    Boris won London twice, in 2008 and 2012.
    Yes, he has charisma and electoral appeal
    Well, he is certainly different, in the same sort of way that Trump is different, but we wouldn`t want Trump governing us, would we?

    And just how many people take Boris Johnson seriously? Anywhere in the word.....
    Trump won whether you wanted him or not
    Ho! Ho! Ho! Minority of votes. And in an election that may or may not have been perverted by foreign elements.

    Winning, by fair means or foul, is the only thing that matters to you right-wingers. Never mind the long-term consequences. You are just so short-sighted. Grab power and brazen it out.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 102,990
    PClipp said:

    HYUFD said:

    PClipp said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    HYUFD said:

    Y0kel said:

    What in the name of god is this circular firing squad within Conservative ranks that believe Mogg is in anyway going to be a net vote winner in the country.
    He is the political equivalent of a novelty act. All mildly amusing but will not carry.

    People said the same about Corbyn, after 5 years of a Corbyn government even Mogg might have a chance
    Is a weak option. Who are these people that make him out to be some kind of giant, the same bunch that once formed the Daniel Hannan fan club?
    Party politicos can be as thick as horse shit sometimes.
    In 2017 it doesn't matter how close Corbyn came, he still lost. Unless the Conservatives end up in the kind of infighting that was a feature of the early to mid 90s Corbyn will likely fail to bring Labour to power. Too divisive.
    The next election could even be Rees-Mogg v Corbyn
    Really, if the Conservatives are that stupid, they deserve all they get.
    Rees-Mogg and Boris at least motivate the Tory vote which was more than can be said for last time
    Boris won London twice, in 2008 and 2012.
    Yes, he has charisma and electoral appeal
    Well, he is certainly different, in the same sort of way that Trump is different, but we wouldn`t want Trump governing us, would we?

    And just how many people take Boris Johnson seriously? Anywhere in the word.....
    Trump won whether you wanted him or not
    Ho! Ho! Ho! Minority of votes. And in an election that may or may not have been perverted by foreign elements.

    Winning, by fair means or foul, is the only thing that matters to you right-wingers. Never mind the long-term consequences. You are just so short-sighted. Grab power and brazen it out.
    He won a majority of electoral college votes and that is what counts, just as winning a majority of seats is what matters here.

    Plus Corbyn and Momentum will do anything to win too, that is politics
  • Netflix membership surged past 117 million last year, a rise the company showed its investment in original programming was paying off.

    However, it wrote off $39m for "unreleased content" understood to feature disgraced actor Kevin Spacey.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/business-42779953

    I feel a law suit coming on....
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 10,008

    What is the point?

    Because if she sacked him there would be a leadership challenge.
  • IDS plays the WW2 card again.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/01/22/brexit-appeasement-cbi-gets-big-decisions-wrong-just-point/

    When one reflects on the EU-funded CBI’s record over the years, it seem to have got an enormous number of decisions wrong.

    The predecessor to the CBI, the FBI, (Federation of British Industries) supported appeasement and in 1939, while attending a conference in Germany with the Reichgruppe on the day tanks rolled into Prague, simply released a statement that “political difficulties have nothing to do with industrialists."

    If only we could think of another British institution that supported appeasement.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,186
    Dura_Ace said:

    What is the point?

    Because if she sacked him there would be a leadership challenge.
    Before there can be a leadership challenge there has to be a vote of no confidence in the PM. TMay would win a confidence vote so there wouldn't be a leadership challenge. It would strengthen her. She should fire Boris and say "bring it on" to him.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 23,081
    edited January 2018
    SeanT said:

    Sean_F said:

    UK beauty blogger Amena Khan says she's pulling out of a L'Oreal campaign.

    Her decision follows the discovery of tweets she wrote in 2014, which some have branded as "anti-Israel".

    http://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-42779188

    That makes it sound like she was tweeting something like querying Israel's policy of providing public services to illegal settlers..what she in fact said included.

    "one that described Israel as an 'illegal state' and another branding the country as a 'child murderer'."

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-5298365/LOreal-model-steps-anti-Israel-tweets.html

    I wonder what would constitute definitely anti-Israel?

    I don't see why such opinions (which I totally disagree with) should require her to step down. She may have expressed worse, but those seem to fall within the bounds of legitimate political debate.
    The entire Israel-Palestine-Jewish-antiSemitic debate is utterly venomous. And is best avoided by any public figure (outside America and Israel, the Muslim world) who wants to preserve a career.
    That’s Corbyn stuffed, then....

    Or maybe not.
  • "The LDs use STV though that hasn’t been necessary in the last two elections. Tim Farron won on a straight run off against Norman Lamb and Vince Cable, of course, got the job without having to face an opponent."

    It wasn't necessary in the one before that either, Mike. Another one with just the pair of candidates - Huhne and Clegg. The last time it came into play was 2006 (Campbell, Huhne, and Hughes). In 1999, it was a five-way contest...which I don't believe would even be possible now due to the number of MP nominations required!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 47,312
    HYUFD said:

    Diehard Remainers may like Boris but he does not need to worry about them, he just needs to get most of the 52%.

    Neither of the main parties is ever finished, the same was said of Labour in 1983 or 2010 or the Tories in 1997 or 1945, the pendulum always turns eventually

    The Liberals were one of the big two once; they were the party of capital, while the Conservatives were the party of the land.

    Nothing lasts forever. The Federalists were one of the big two in America, and now they're gone. In France, the Socialists were always one of the big two, until they weren't.

    I'm not saying the Labour Party (or the Conservatives) are on life support, or will go anytime soon. But the world sometimes changes, and when it does, all our assumptions go with it.
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,270
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Diehard Remainers may like Boris but he does not need to worry about them, he just needs to get most of the 52%.

    Neither of the main parties is ever finished, the same was said of Labour in 1983 or 2010 or the Tories in 1997 or 1945, the pendulum always turns eventually

    The Liberals were one of the big two once; they were the party of capital, while the Conservatives were the party of the land.

    Nothing lasts forever. The Federalists were one of the big two in America, and now they're gone. In France, the Socialists were always one of the big two, until they weren't.

    I'm not saying the Labour Party (or the Conservatives) are on life support, or will go anytime soon. But the world sometimes changes, and when it does, all our assumptions go with it.
    Just ask any Yugoslav, Czechoslovak or East German in 1988.....
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 43,107
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Diehard Remainers may like Boris but he does not need to worry about them, he just needs to get most of the 52%.

    Neither of the main parties is ever finished, the same was said of Labour in 1983 or 2010 or the Tories in 1997 or 1945, the pendulum always turns eventually

    The Liberals were one of the big two once; they were the party of capital, while the Conservatives were the party of the land.

    Nothing lasts forever. The Federalists were one of the big two in America, and now they're gone. In France, the Socialists were always one of the big two, until they weren't.

    I'm not saying the Labour Party (or the Conservatives) are on life support, or will go anytime soon. But the world sometimes changes, and when it does, all our assumptions go with it.
    Yes, but there's a further perspective on that:
    https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2018/01/macron-trump-economics/549944/
  • JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,788
    Sandpit said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Far more interesting than the continuing travails of UKIP was this in City AM this morning:

    http://www.cityam.com/279161/running-mayor-course-am-pimlico-plumbers-boss-charlie

    Mullins is considering running as an Independent in the 2020 mayoral election. My initial thought is IF he stands as an Independent against the Conservative, Sadiq Khan will think all his Christmases have come early.

    Could Mullins be a viable Conservative candidate to run against Khan ?

    Has anyone got a market up about this ?

    Is there honey still for tea ?

    I’d guess that if Mullins is serious about running, the Conservatives would put everything behind him rather than run someone against him.

    Betfair do have a market up but it hasn’t got going yet. 1.25 to back or 1.5 to lay Khan.
    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/politics/event/28051236/market?marketId=1.129790525
    Who the franglesquelch is "Mullins"? And why should we give a toss about him having a ludicrous campaign to be Mayor of London? The next Mayor of London elected in 2020 will be Sadiq Khan, or a different Labour candidate, or the Conservative candidate. Any other suggestions are Fake News and should be f'tang-f'tang-plopped into a field of purple gherkins.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 42,074
    If I were May I think I'd sack Boris in the morning and make William Hague Foreign Secretary.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 47,312
    Macron has been organising this (much more exclusive) pre-Davos meeting in Versailles. The problem being that these days Davos just simply isn't special any more.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 42,074
    rcs1000 said:

    Macron has been organising this (much more exclusive) pre-Davos meeting in Versailles. The problem being that these days Davos just simply isn't special any more.
    He was busy on Monday, also visiting a Toyota factory that has announced the creation of 700 new jobs.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 47,312

    rcs1000 said:

    Macron has been organising this (much more exclusive) pre-Davos meeting in Versailles. The problem being that these days Davos just simply isn't special any more.
    He was busy on Monday, also visiting a Toyota factory that has announced the creation of 700 new jobs.
    He was busy on Monday, also visiting a Toyota factory that has announced the creation of 700 new jobs for robots.

    FTFY.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 10,008
    Sandpit said:

    Way offtopic:
    Company that makes military ejector seats admits health and safety breach for death of Red Arrows pilot in ground accident in 2011.

    The poor f***er got thrown 200’ into the air when his bang seat went off as he sat in it.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/22/ejector-seat-maker-admits-health-safety-breach-death-red-arrows/

    Ejection not ejector!

    It's a sign of how far standards have slipped in RAF. Despite the deficiencies of the seat design (welcome to the wonderful world of military equipment procurement) Flt Lt Cunningham simply didn't safe the seat and didn't check it. The drogue shackle was also over torqued and the two mistakes combined killed him. on 4FTS we used to ground Hawk studes for 1 day if they missed a seat pin and this guy was on RAFAT...
  • JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,788
    Sked has been heavily criticising UKIP continuously for more than 20 years. He is the ultimate Moaniac and should be ignored as a ludicrous irrelevance - more ludicrous than UKIP itself has ever been.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jan/22/founded-ukip-national-joke-disappear-henry-bolton-alan-sked?CMP=share_btn_tw
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 41,055
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    Way offtopic:
    Company that makes military ejector seats admits health and safety breach for death of Red Arrows pilot in ground accident in 2011.

    The poor f***er got thrown 200’ into the air when his bang seat went off as he sat in it.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/22/ejector-seat-maker-admits-health-safety-breach-death-red-arrows/

    Ejection not ejector!

    It's a sign of how far standards have slipped in RAF. Despite the deficiencies of the seat design (welcome to the wonderful world of military equipment procurement) Flt Lt Cunningham simply didn't safe the seat and didn't check it. The drogue shackle was also over torqued and the two mistakes combined killed him. on 4FTS we used to ground Hawk studes for 1 day if they missed a seat pin and this guy was on RAFAT...
    Like most aircraft accidents it’s the holes in the cheese that line up, in this case a combination of poor seat design, sloppy process following and the overtightened shackle combined to send Flt Lt Cunningham to his death. Expect RAFAT to be better than that.

    Do M-B still present you with a tie if you do it correctly?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 10,008
    edited January 2018
    Sandpit said:



    Do M-B still present you with a tie if you do it correctly?

    Yes. I'm sure MB would have made a better seat if the govt. felt like paying for them. The NACES used by the USN/USMC is based on the Mk.10 chassis but has much better safety features. The 10b in the Hawk isn't truly "safe" even with all 5 pins in it as you can still fire it by dropping something on the initiator cartridge. The Malaysian air force put somebody through the roof of a hangar doing that.

    The Luftwaffe modified their Mk.10s so that it was impossible to over torque the drogue bolt but the RAF/RN didn't bother due to their culture of assuming that everyone who will work on the aircraft is competent. That assumption was fairly valid until about the mid 90s.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 102,990
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Diehard Remainers may like Boris but he does not need to worry about them, he just needs to get most of the 52%.

    Neither of the main parties is ever finished, the same was said of Labour in 1983 or 2010 or the Tories in 1997 or 1945, the pendulum always turns eventually

    The Liberals were one of the big two once; they were the party of capital, while the Conservatives were the party of the land.

    Nothing lasts forever. The Federalists were one of the big two in America, and now they're gone. In France, the Socialists were always one of the big two, until they weren't.

    I'm not saying the Labour Party (or the Conservatives) are on life support, or will go anytime soon. But the world sometimes changes, and when it does, all our assumptions go with it.
    Only because the Liberals were replaced by Labour on the left, the Federalists split between the Republicans and Democrats and the Socialists were replaced on the left by Melenchon and in the cemtre by Macron
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