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Trying to understand Mrs May’s recent reshuffle has been a challenge, but over the weekend a few people suggested it was all part of a weird plot to make Gavin Williamson Tory leader, Iain Martin says
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In like Flynn.0
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Are we to believe this account? It smacks rather of post hoc rationalisation, and is Nick Timothy really that powerful or is this to be understood as code for the PM herself?0
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Williamson backed Remain out of loyalty to Cameron but all his rhetoric since the referendum has been strongly Brexiteer. He and Hinds being the most prominent new faces in the Cabinet are now clearly the likeliest figures to run on a 'fresh face' ticket in the leadership contest to succeed May. However Boris, Davis, Mogg and Gove all have sizeable bases of support within the party and at the moment remain the frontrunners to lead the Tories into the next general election0
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I suppose every leader does this but May is not making it easy for herself. I am seriously unimpressed by Williamson so far but tbh I was barely aware of his existence before he became Defence Secretary.
In the latter days of Mrs T John Major rose rapidly and without trace. A repeat seems unlikely, especially if Timothy is involved, but not impossible.0 -
Good afternoon, everyone.
May's rubbish.0 -
Is Nick Timothy still involved? I thought he was the one responsible for the Tory party Manifesto....0
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It is now ten months to go util the US mid-term elections in the Senate.
It remains the case that under Betfair's rules, the Democrats need to make four out of a total of eight possible gains. That means the Republicans in Tennessee and Ted Cruz in Texas. It also means no losses among at least four close calls (blue Senators in red states).
They cannot win if it remains the case in ten months' time save for a 1% probable landslide.
So 4/1 currently available - which relies on at least one, probably two, special elections in Republican held, winnable seats - seems very skinny to me. DYOR.0 -
They guy was invisible before being made Defence Secretary, if he is being lined up for the top job it shows that really any minister is in with a chance.0
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Williamson will hope he is Major, Boris is Heseltine and Corbyn is KinnockDavidL said:I suppose every leader does this but May is not making it easy for herself. I am seriously unimpressed by Williamson so far but tbh I was barely aware of his existence before he became Defence Secretary.
In the latter days of Mrs T John Major rose rapidly and without trace. A repeat seems unlikely, especially if Timothy is involved, but not impossible.0 -
Though the House is likely to go Democrat we will likely end up with 2010 in reverse where the Republicans gained the House but the Democrats held the SenateTheWhiteRabbit said:It is now ten months to go util the US mid-term elections in the Senate.
It remains the case that under Betfair's rules, the Democrats need to make four out of a total of eight possible gains. That means the Republicans in Tennessee and Ted Cruz in Texas. It also means no losses among at least four close calls (blue Senators in red states).
They cannot win if it remains the case in ten months' time save for a 1% probable landslide.
So 4/1 currently available - which relies on at least one, probably two, special elections in Republican held, winnable seats - seems very skinny to me. DYOR.0 -
I have no idea of the veracity of these rumours but what is certain is that there are factions within the party all jockeying for position when either TM decides to call it a day or more likely is asked to stand down ( but not before Brexit is clearer).DecrepitJohnL said:Are we to believe this account? It smacks rather of post hoc rationalisation, and is Nick Timothy really that powerful or is this to be understood as code for the PM herself?
I respect Hyfud for his knowledge of all things conservative but I absolutely do not agree Boris, Davis, Mogg or Gove will get anywhere near the leadership.
A new face is needed and also time which is what TM is providing.
While the cabinet was largely unchanged new faces have been promoted and Brandon Lewis has made a good high profile media start to his Chairmanship.
I do not think remain or leave will be relevant to TM's successor and expect a surprise or two on the way0 -
Mr. Root, him and Fiona Hill, yes. Reportedly May is still speaking with them, though they've lost their official positions.0
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All this is a bit pathetic really. If they don't like May, challenge her. Goodness knows they have enough reasons. And yet nothing.0
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If it is not Boris, Davis, Gove or Mogg then Williamson and Hinds are now well placed (with Mourdaunt and Lewis and Bradley and McVey and Hancock outside shots) as the key new and younger faces in the Cabinet following the reshuffle. No PM has got the post in government without having been in the Cabinet firstBig_G_NorthWales said:
I have no idea of the veracity of these rumours but what is certain is that there are factions within the party all jockeying for position when either TM decides to call it a day or more likely is asked to stand down ( but not before Brexit is clearer).DecrepitJohnL said:Are we to believe this account? It smacks rather of post hoc rationalisation, and is Nick Timothy really that powerful or is this to be understood as code for the PM herself?
I respect Hyfud for his knowledge of all things conservative but I absolutely do not agree Boris, Davis, Mogg or Gove will get anywhere near the leadership.
A new face is needed and also time which is what TM is providing.
While the cabinet was largely unchanged new faces have been promoted and Brandon Lewis has made a good high profile media start to his Chairmanship.
I do not think remain or leave will be relevant to TM's successor and expect a surprise or two on the way0 -
Mr. Jonathan, there is something in delaying until 2019, but May's so inept I think that is perhaps outweighed by the positive of getting rid of her sooner rather than later.0
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That article by Iain Martin was chilling. It portrayed Theresa as an automaton with the sinister figure of Nick Timothy pulling its levers.0
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Brexit is keeping her in place. No one else wants it and do you blame themJonathan said:All this is a bit pathetic really. If they don't like May, challenge her. Goodness knows they have enough reasons. And yet nothing.
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Yup.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Brexit is keeping her in place. No one else wants it and do you blame themJonathan said:All this is a bit pathetic really. If they don't like May, challenge her. Goodness knows they have enough reasons. And yet nothing.
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There is always a first timeHYUFD said:
If it is not Boris, Davis, Gove or Mogg then Williamson and Hinds are now well placed (with Mourdaunt and Lewis and Bradley and McVey and Hancock outside shots) as the key new and younger faces in the Cabinet following the reshuffle. No PM has got the post in government without having been in the Cabinet firstBig_G_NorthWales said:
I have no idea of the veracity of these rumours but what is certain is that there are factions within the party all jockeying for position when either TM decides to call it a day or more likely is asked to stand down ( but not before Brexit is clearer).DecrepitJohnL said:Are we to believe this account? It smacks rather of post hoc rationalisation, and is Nick Timothy really that powerful or is this to be understood as code for the PM herself?
I respect Hyfud for his knowledge of all things conservative but I absolutely do not agree Boris, Davis, Mogg or Gove will get anywhere near the leadership.
A new face is needed and also time which is what TM is providing.
While the cabinet was largely unchanged new faces have been promoted and Brandon Lewis has made a good high profile media start to his Chairmanship.
I do not think remain or leave will be relevant to TM's successor and expect a surprise or two on the way0 -
Then they have no right to complain.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Jonathan, there is something in delaying until 2019, but May's so inept I think that is perhaps outweighed by the positive of getting rid of her sooner rather than later.
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And leads Corbyn as best PMMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Jonathan, there is something in delaying until 2019, but May's so inept I think that is perhaps outweighed by the positive of getting rid of her sooner rather than later.
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So you are saying that Williamson is an unprincipled greasy pole climber?HYUFD said:Williamson backed Remain out of loyalty to Cameron but all his rhetoric since the referendum has been strongly Brexiteer. He and Hinds being the most prominent new faces in the Cabinet are now clearly the likeliest figures to run on a 'fresh face' ticket in the leadership contest to succeed May. However Boris, Davis, Mogg and Gove all have sizeable bases of support within the party and at the moment remain the frontrunners to lead the Tories into the next general election
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is taken out by Philip?Morris_Dancer said:Good afternoon, everyone.
May's rubbish.0 -
Mr. NorthWales, barely.0
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No - recycledFoxy said:
is taken out by Philip?Morris_Dancer said:Good afternoon, everyone.
May's rubbish.0 -
You can go from the backbenches or junior minister to opposition leader on rare occasions as Corbyn has, you cannot do the same for PM, you just do not have the experience of coping under that level of pressureBig_G_NorthWales said:
There is always a first timeHYUFD said:
If it is not Boris, Davis, Gove or Mogg then Williamson and Hinds are now well placed (with Mourdaunt and Lewis and Bradley and McVey and Hancock outside shots) as the key new and younger faces in the Cabinet following the reshuffle. No PM has got the post in government without having been in the Cabinet firstBig_G_NorthWales said:
I have no idea of the veracity of these rumours but what is certain is that there are factions within the party all jockeying for position when either TM decides to call it a day or more likely is asked to stand down ( but not before Brexit is clearer).DecrepitJohnL said:Are we to believe this account? It smacks rather of post hoc rationalisation, and is Nick Timothy really that powerful or is this to be understood as code for the PM herself?
I respect Hyfud for his knowledge of all things conservative but I absolutely do not agree Boris, Davis, Mogg or Gove will get anywhere near the leadership.
A new face is needed and also time which is what TM is providing.
While the cabinet was largely unchanged new faces have been promoted and Brandon Lewis has made a good high profile media start to his Chairmanship.
I do not think remain or leave will be relevant to TM's successor and expect a surprise or two on the way0 -
Your words not mineFoxy said:
So you are saying that Williamson is an unprincipled greasy pole climber?HYUFD said:Williamson backed Remain out of loyalty to Cameron but all his rhetoric since the referendum has been strongly Brexiteer. He and Hinds being the most prominent new faces in the Cabinet are now clearly the likeliest figures to run on a 'fresh face' ticket in the leadership contest to succeed May. However Boris, Davis, Mogg and Gove all have sizeable bases of support within the party and at the moment remain the frontrunners to lead the Tories into the next general election
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But does and that is the problem for labour - they should be out of sightMorris_Dancer said:Mr. NorthWales, barely.
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Maybe but not impossible. They are talking of Oprah Winfrey being POTUSHYUFD said:
You can go from the backbenches or junior minister to opposition leader on rare occasions as Corbyn has, you cannot do the same for PM, you just do not have the experience of coping under that level of pressureBig_G_NorthWales said:
There is always a first timeHYUFD said:
If it is not Boris, Davis, Gove or Mogg then Williamson and Hinds are now well placed (with Mourdaunt and Lewis and Bradley and McVey and Hancock outside shots) as the key new and younger faces in the Cabinet following the reshuffle. No PM has got the post in government without having been in the Cabinet firstBig_G_NorthWales said:
I have no idea of the veracity of these rumours but what is certain is that there are factions within the party all jockeying for position when either TM decides to call it a day or more likely is asked to stand down ( but not before Brexit is clearer).DecrepitJohnL said:Are we to believe this account? It smacks rather of post hoc rationalisation, and is Nick Timothy really that powerful or is this to be understood as code for the PM herself?
I respect Hyfud for his knowledge of all things conservative but I absolutely do not agree Boris, Davis, Mogg or Gove will get anywhere near the leadership.
A new face is needed and also time which is what TM is providing.
While the cabinet was largely unchanged new faces have been promoted and Brandon Lewis has made a good high profile media start to his Chairmanship.
I do not think remain or leave will be relevant to TM's successor and expect a surprise or two on the way0 -
Yes but no actress or actor celebrity has ever made PM in this country .In the USA it is a different to become POTUS.If in the future we do vote for head of state it would change the game.Celebs in this country struggle to get any political position.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Maybe but not impossible. They are talking of Oprah Winfrey being POTUSHYUFD said:
You can go from the backbenches or junior minister to opposition leader on rare occasions as Corbyn has, you cannot do the same for PM, you just do not have the experience of coping under that level of pressureBig_G_NorthWales said:
There is always a first timeHYUFD said:
If it is not Boris, Davis, Gove or Mogg then Williamson and Hinds are now well placed (with Mourdaunt and Lewis and Bradley and McVey and Hancock outside shots) as the key new and younger faces in the Cabinet following the reshuffle. No PM has got the post in government without having been in the Cabinet firstBig_G_NorthWales said:
I have no idea of the veracity of these rumours but what is certain is that there are factions within the party all jockeying for position when either TM decides to call it a day or more likely is asked to stand down ( but not before Brexit is clearer).DecrepitJohnL said:Are we to believe this account? It smacks rather of post hoc rationalisation, and is Nick Timothy really that powerful or is this to be understood as code for the PM herself?
I respect Hyfud for his knowledge of all things conservative but I absolutely do not agree Boris, Davis, Mogg or Gove will get anywhere near the leadership.
A new face is needed and also time which is what TM is providing.
While the cabinet was largely unchanged new faces have been promoted and Brandon Lewis has made a good high profile media start to his Chairmanship.
I do not think remain or leave will be relevant to TM's successor and expect a surprise or two on the way0 -
Oprah is a billionaire and has been in the spotlight for decades, same with Trump, rather different to going from being a relatively anonymous backbencher to PM. Plus President of the United States is equivalent to Head of State, the Speaker of the House is equivalent to PM and has normally held a senior leadership role beforehandBig_G_NorthWales said:
Maybe but not impossible. They are talking of Oprah Winfrey being POTUSHYUFD said:
You can go from the backbenches or junior minister to opposition leader on rare occasions as Corbyn has, you cannot do the same for PM, you just do not have the experience of coping under that level of pressureBig_G_NorthWales said:
There is always a first timeHYUFD said:
If it is not Boris, Davis, Gove or Mogg then Williamson and Hinds are now well placed (with Mourdaunt and Lewis and Bradley and McVey and Hancock outside shots) as the key new and younger faces in the Cabinet following the reshuffle. No PM has got the post in government without having been in the Cabinet firstBig_G_NorthWales said:
I have no idea of the veracity of these rumours but what is certain is that there leadership.DecrepitJohnL said:Are we to believe this account? It smacks rather of post hoc rationalisation, and is Nick Timothy really that powerful or is this to be understood as code for the PM herself?
A new face is needed and also time which is what TM is providing.
While the cabinet was largely unchanged new faces have been promoted and Brandon Lewis has made a good high profile media start to his Chairmanship.
I do not think remain or leave will be relevant to TM's successor and expect a surprise or two on the way0 -
Gavin Williamson is just the sort of younger candidate that the Tory party is going to need to win a majority next time. Williamson is not the only such candidate -Dominic Raab is also a rising star. And there may be others.
But I suspect that as the election draws closer by 2020, the overwhelming instinct of the Tory party will be winning it under whomsoever can deliver victory. If that is Gavin Williamson, then Williamson will get the prize.0 -
Anyone who becomes PM has a certain something - a quality difficult to define but you know it when you see it. Even May had it in 2016, but quickly blew it. Boris too has almost blown it. Gove and JRM are interesting, but only in an Enoch Powell sort of way. Most of the other names mentioned are complete non-starters, imo. I should however like to hear more from Rory Stewart, Tom Tugenhat, Johnny Mercer and James Cleverly.0
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That was Diana wasn't it?Foxy said:
is taken out by Philip?Morris_Dancer said:Good afternoon, everyone.
May's rubbish.0 -
Gavin Williamson is defiantly in the Mayite mould: Boring, mediocre and a complete void when it comes to personality. If May could not win a majority against Corbyn what hope for the charisma free successor? It is a strange turn of events, the Tory front bench is rammed with non-entities, the saving grace for the Tories is the complete lack of an opposition. Politics has not been this badly served for a very long time.0
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I find the most telling words in the opening piece the part where it says
Another ‘minister who had been expecting a promotion told friends he had complained to the chief whip and was told: “Sorry, there are other agendas at work here.”’
I thought that politicians hoped they might be called by the PM.
But today`s crop apparently expect to be invited to join the Cabinet.
This is surely the entitlement culture carried to dangerous new heights.0 -
I think the former chief whip Mark Harper is as good a candidate as any of those you have mentioned. None of them have the charisma of Cameron or Blair though.PeterC said:Anyone who becomes PM has a certain something - a quality difficult to define but you know it when you see it. Even May had it in 2016, but quickly blew it. Boris too has almost blown it. Gove and JRM are interesting, but only in an Enoch Powell sort of way. Most of the other names mentioned are complete non-starters, imo. I should however like to hear more from Rory Stewart, Tom Tugenhat, Johnny Mercer and James Cleverly.
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Yes but they have to beat Corbyn not Cameron or Blair and Corbyn has already failed to win once, much like Kinnock in 1992 he will be expecting to win on his second attempt but the fact he did not win first time tells you the voters clearly have reservations about himThe_Taxman said:
I think the former chief whip Mark Harper is as good a candidate as any of those you have mentioned. None of them have the charisma of Cameron or Blair though.PeterC said:Anyone who becomes PM has a certain something - a quality difficult to define but you know it when you see it. Even May had it in 2016, but quickly blew it. Boris too has almost blown it. Gove and JRM are interesting, but only in an Enoch Powell sort of way. Most of the other names mentioned are complete non-starters, imo. I should however like to hear more from Rory Stewart, Tom Tugenhat, Johnny Mercer and James Cleverly.
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Mr. HYUFD, on the other hand, leaving the EU helped mobilise many young voters for Corbyn in 2017. That said, elderly voters who thought a Con win was guaranteed last time are likelier to turn out now.
It's an intriguing picture.0 -
You've long persisted in this view that they cannot, when what you mean is theyshould not do the same for PM. That and other reasons will mean it has not happened, not that it never will.HYUFD said:
You can go from the backbenches or junior minister to opposition leader on rare occasions as Corbyn has, you cannot do the same for PM, you just do not have the experience of coping under that level of pressureBig_G_NorthWales said:
There is always a first timeHYUFD said:
If it is not Boris, Davis, Gove or Mogg then Williamson and Hinds are now well placed (with Mourdaunt and Lewis and Bradley and McVey and Hancock outside shots) as the key new and younger faces in the Cabinet following the reshuffle. No PM has got the post in government without having been in the Cabinet firstBig_G_NorthWales said:
I have no idea of the veracity of these rumours but what is certain is that there are factions within the party all jockeying for position when either TM decides to call it a day or more likely is asked to stand down ( but not before Brexit is clearer).DecrepitJohnL said:Are we to believe this account? It smacks rather of post hoc rationalisation, and is Nick Timothy really that powerful or is this to be understood as code for the PM herself?
I respect Hyfud for his knowledge of all things conservative but I absolutely do not agree Boris, Davis, Mogg or Gove will get anywhere near the leadership.
A new face is needed and also time which is what TM is providing.
While the cabinet was largely unchanged new faces have been promoted and Brandon Lewis has made a good high profile media start to his Chairmanship.
I do not think remain or leave will be relevant to TM's successor and expect a surprise or two on the way0 -
Will anyone be getting an app for open banking ?0
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Not at all sure about it and at present it is an avoid for meYorkcity said:Will anyone be getting an app for open banking ?
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I think the value bet is No Majority in the Senate at 2.92 on Betfair.TheWhiteRabbit said:It is now ten months to go util the US mid-term elections in the Senate.
It remains the case that under Betfair's rules, the Democrats need to make four out of a total of eight possible gains. That means the Republicans in Tennessee and Ted Cruz in Texas. It also means no losses among at least four close calls (blue Senators in red states).
They cannot win if it remains the case in ten months' time save for a 1% probable landslide.
So 4/1 currently available - which relies on at least one, probably two, special elections in Republican held, winnable seats - seems very skinny to me. DYOR.
The rules exclude the independents (King and Sanders) who caucus with the Democrats as counting Democrat.
So "No Majority" cover the Republicans getting 48 to 50, i.e. losing one to three seats. I agree the Democrats are very unlikely to gain four or more seats but they stand a reasonable chance of gaining one net and possibly more.0 -
Same here, I believe it starts this week.https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/jan/08/open-banking-bankBig_G_NorthWales said:
Not at all sure about it and at present it is an avoid for meYorkcity said:Will anyone be getting an app for open banking ?
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I think the problem TMay has is connected to the lack of any organised sisterhood in the Tory party.She's got 70,000 oldie members,the foxhunters and the freemasons,and of course her 64 top value diners to listen to.The Labour party's sisterhood you just don't mess with like my 1st ward sister whose scissors were not just there for clinical purposes.Fearsome.0
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In a word. No.Yorkcity said:Will anyone be getting an app for open banking ?
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I'm lost. What were the scissors for?volcanopete said:I think the problem TMay has is connected to the lack of any organised sisterhood in the Tory party.She's got 70,000 oldie members,the foxhunters and the freemasons,and of course her 64 top value diners to listen to.The Labour party's sisterhood you just don't mess with like my 1st ward sister whose scissors were not just there for clinical purposes.Fearsome.
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Looks like the end of the run for Man City...0
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No thanks. Opens up fraud posibilities.Yorkcity said:Will anyone be getting an app for open banking ?
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At the moment the most likely outcome is a third hung parliament in 4 successive general electionsMorris_Dancer said:Mr. HYUFD, on the other hand, leaving the EU helped mobilise many young voters for Corbyn in 2017. That said, elderly voters who thought a Con win was guaranteed last time are likelier to turn out now.
It's an intriguing picture.0 -
Well anything is possible of course but it is extremely unlikely the next PM will not be at least in the Cabinet and very likely in a senior Cabinet position. Being PM is just not something you can prepare for on the job without experience of a high profile role beforehand, which means either being a former Cabinet Minister or Leader of the Opposition.kle4 said:
You've long persisted in this view that they cannot, when what you mean is theyshould not do the same for PM. That and other reasons will mean it has not happened, not that it never will.HYUFD said:
You can go from the backbenches or junior minister to opposition leader on rare occasions as Corbyn has, you cannot do the same for PM, you just do not have the experience of coping under that level of pressureBig_G_NorthWales said:
There is always a first timeHYUFD said:
If it is not Boris, Davis, Gove or Mogg then Williamson and Hinds are now well placed (with Mourdaunt and Lewis and Bradley and McVey and Hancock outside shots) as the key new and younger faces in the Cabinet following the reshuffle. No PM has got the post in government without having been in the Cabinet firstBig_G_NorthWales said:
I have no idea of the veracity of these rumours but what is certain is that there are factions within the party all jockeying for position when either TM decides to call it a day or more likely is asked to stand down ( but not before Brexit is clearer).DecrepitJohnL said:Are we to believe this account? It smacks rather of post hoc rationalisation, and is Nick Timothy really that powerful or is this to be understood as code for the PM herself?
I respect Hyfud for his knowledge of all things conservative but I absolutely do not agree Boris, Davis, Mogg or Gove will get anywhere near the leadership.
A new face is needed and also time which is what TM is providing.
While the cabinet was largely unchanged new faces have been promoted and Brandon Lewis has made a good high profile media start to his Chairmanship.
I do not think remain or leave will be relevant to TM's successor and expect a surprise or two on the way0 -
Gavin Williamson was only made Defence SoS because Fallon had to resign. Green and Patel going also made room. Greening volunteered to leave rather than stay making a further space for Hinds.
Hinds and Williamson were not force fitted into Cabinet by May.0 -
Is it my imagination, or is Angela Raynor raising her profile on a regular basis at the moment? Today it is interview in ST magazine about raising her child.
Do I detect manoeuvres?0 -
Didn't she refer to McDonnell's plans as s..t or bustrottenborough said:Is it my imagination, or is Angela Raynor raising her profile on a regular basis at the moment? Today it is interview in ST magazine about raising her child.
Do I detect manoeuvres?0 -
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and got away with it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Didn't she refer to McDonnell's plans as s..t or bustrottenborough said:Is it my imagination, or is Angela Raynor raising her profile on a regular basis at the moment? Today it is interview in ST magazine about raising her child.
Do I detect manoeuvres?
This was what first made me suspicious that something is afoot.0 -
I saw Raab on Question Time the other night. I thought he had been moved into the Cabinet (as housing secretary?)
#maybotStark_Dawning said:That article by Iain Martin was chilling. It portrayed Theresa as an automaton with the sinister figure of Nick Timothy pulling its levers.
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Fair play to say that.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Fans of the 18 other clubs will hopefully be happy that Liverpool have shown that MC are beatable. Awesome performance from the men in red today though
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The current PM seems utterly unsuited to the job and she was in the cabinet for 6 years! I think you generally get a feel for someone being of PM calibre. Certainly I would put Theresa May down as being one of the worse PMs this country has ever had. I think Gordon Brown equals her as being totally out of depth in it and thoroughly incompetent. It is funny though, the Tories don't have much talent and all Labours are on the backbenches!HYUFD said:
Well anything is possible of course but it is extremely unlikely the next PM will not be at least in the Cabinet and very likely in a senior Cabinet position. Being PM is just not something you can prepare for on the job without experience of a high profile role beforehand, which means either being a former Cabinet Minister or Leader of the Opposition.kle4 said:
You've long persisted in this view that they cannot, when what you mean is theyshould not do the same for PM. That and other reasons will mean it has not happened, not that it never will.HYUFD said:
You can go from the backbenches or junior minister to opposition leader on rare occasions as Corbyn has, you cannot do the same for PM, you just do not have the experience of coping under that level of pressureBig_G_NorthWales said:
There is always a first timeHYUFD said:
If it is not Boris, Davis, Gove or Mogg then Williamson and Hinds are now well placed (with Mourdaunt and Lewis and Bradley and McVey and Hancock outside shots) as the key new and younger faces in the Cabinet following the reshuffle. No PM has got the post in government without having been in the Cabinet firstBig_G_NorthWales said:
I have no idea of the veracity of these rumours but what is certain is that there are factions within the party all jockeying for position when either TM decides to call it a day or more likely is asked to stand down ( but not before Brexit is clearer).DecrepitJohnL said:Are we to believe this account? It smacks rather of post hoc rationalisation, and is Nick Timothy really that powerful or is this to be understood as code for the PM herself?
I respect Hyfud for his knowledge of all things conservative but I absolutely do not agree Boris, Davis, Mogg or Gove will get anywhere near the leadership.
A new face is needed and also time which is what TM is providing.
While the cabinet was largely unchanged new faces have been promoted and Brandon Lewis has made a good high profile media start to his Chairmanship.
I do not think remain or leave will be relevant to TM's successor and expect a surprise or two on the way0 -
Squeaky bum time 4 - 30
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I don't think she has ever been noted for her demure shyness.rottenborough said:
and got away with it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Didn't she refer to McDonnell's plans as s..t or bustrottenborough said:Is it my imagination, or is Angela Raynor raising her profile on a regular basis at the moment? Today it is interview in ST magazine about raising her child.
Do I detect manoeuvres?
This was what first made me suspicious that something is afoot.
I like her, and while my leadership book is a mess for both Tories and Labour, am in the Green.0 -
He is a Minister of State (for Housing) so not in the Cabinet.GIN1138 said:I saw Raab on Question Time the other night. I thought he had been moved into the Cabinet (as housing secretary?)
#maybotStark_Dawning said:That article by Iain Martin was chilling. It portrayed Theresa as an automaton with the sinister figure of Nick Timothy pulling its levers.
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OT -- we Londoners have a new horror inflicted on us: warnings that the bus is about to move (often after it already has).
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-426811060 -
Bitting nail time LiverpoolBig_G_NorthWales said:Squeaky bum time 4 - 3
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Made it - well done scousersBig_G_NorthWales said:
Bitting nail time LiverpoolBig_G_NorthWales said:Squeaky bum time 4 - 3
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Gavin Williamson looks like an intern on work experience.
Not a possible PM.0 -
Those last few minutes were unnecessarily nerve-wracking!Big_G_NorthWales said:
Made it - well done scousersBig_G_NorthWales said:
Bitting nail time LiverpoolBig_G_NorthWales said:Squeaky bum time 4 - 3
Arsenal’s unbeaten season isn’t going to be equalled, awesome game of football tonight though, great advert for the Premier League.
You’ll Never Walk Alone!0 -
Interestingly, he got his degree in social sciences from Bradford University.Cyclefree said:Gavin Williamson looks like an intern on work experience.
Not a possible PM.
I don't rate him at all. He just does not look the part as PM.0 -
City self-destructed. Shocking mistakes for the three second half goals. But Liverpool caused the errors by being relentless.Big_G_NorthWales said:
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They were relentless and maybe why they fell away in the last 10 minutesSouthamObserver said:
City self-destructed. Shocking mistakes for the three second half goals. But Liverpool caused the errors by being relentless.Big_G_NorthWales said:0 -
I do not know him and he has only just arrived in cabinet so I have no idea how he will developThe_Taxman said:
Interestingly, he got his degree in social sciences from Bradford University.Cyclefree said:Gavin Williamson looks like an intern on work experience.
Not a possible PM.
I don't rate him at all. He just does not look the part as PM.0 -
Corbyn does not either and at least Williamson completed his degree unlike the leader of the opposition who dropped out of his course at London Metropolitan UniversityThe_Taxman said:
Interestingly, he got his degree in social sciences from Bradford University.Cyclefree said:Gavin Williamson looks like an intern on work experience.
Not a possible PM.
I don't rate him at all. He just does not look the part as PM.0 -
US courts intervening for some extreme gerrymandering:
http://www.rollcall.com/news/politics/texas-redistricting-case-heads-supreme-court0 -
Corbyn has a certain amount of charisma, particularly when campaigning. The Tories need someone who can inspire others not send them to sleep.HYUFD said:
Corbyn does not either and at least Williamson completed his degree unlike the leader of the opposition who dropped out of his course at London Metropolitan UniversityThe_Taxman said:
Interestingly, he got his degree in social sciences from Bradford University.Cyclefree said:Gavin Williamson looks like an intern on work experience.
Not a possible PM.
I don't rate him at all. He just does not look the part as PM.0 -
ManCity lose six more games like that in the next fifteen - and the title is wide open.....0
-
His attempts to show how "tough" he is (that fight with Hammond, or the stuff about ISIS fighters) come across as so try-hard.Cyclefree said:Gavin Williamson looks like an intern on work experience.
Not a possible PM.
He reminds me less of an intern, more of the 14-year-old boy who's always telling anyone who'll listen about all the girlfriends he's had (all of whom coincidentally go to a different school).0 -
Good afternoon all.
Both major political parties are now unrecognisable - almost self-parodies. I have no idea who I shall vote for next time. Williamson isn't even a nonentity.0 -
Do they? They still managed to win 56 more seats than Corbyn led Labour in June despite a very dull leader and one of the worst campaigns in history. Though if charisma is needed for a majority Boris is still by far and away the best on that scoreCyclefree said:
Corbyn has a certain amount of charisma, particularly when campaigning. The Tories need someone who can inspire others not send them to sleep.HYUFD said:
Corbyn does not either and at least Williamson completed his degree unlike the leader of the opposition who dropped out of his course at London Metropolitan UniversityThe_Taxman said:
Interestingly, he got his degree in social sciences from Bradford University.Cyclefree said:Gavin Williamson looks like an intern on work experience.
Not a possible PM.
I don't rate him at all. He just does not look the part as PM.0 -
I take it you'd have supported Lord Halifax BA (Oxon) over the non-graduate Churchill in May 1940. How was the film btw?HYUFD said:
Corbyn does not either and at least Williamson completed his degree unlike the leader of the opposition who dropped out of his course at London Metropolitan UniversityThe_Taxman said:
Interestingly, he got his degree in social sciences from Bradford University.Cyclefree said:Gavin Williamson looks like an intern on work experience.
Not a possible PM.
I don't rate him at all. He just does not look the part as PM.0 -
He is, but more than anyone else in frontline politics he appears to stand for precisely nothing. The Tories look tired out - more than a charismatic leader they need a leader who has a concept for what their purpose is, after Brexit's done.HYUFD said:
Do they? They still managed to win 56 more seats than Corbyn led Labour in June despite a very dull leader and one of the worst campaigns in history. Though if charisma is needed for a majority Boris is still by far and away the best on that scoreCyclefree said:
Corbyn has a certain amount of charisma, particularly when campaigning. The Tories need someone who can inspire others not send them to sleep.HYUFD said:
Corbyn does not either and at least Williamson completed his degree unlike the leader of the opposition who dropped out of his course at London Metropolitan UniversityThe_Taxman said:
Interestingly, he got his degree in social sciences from Bradford University.Cyclefree said:Gavin Williamson looks like an intern on work experience.
Not a possible PM.
I don't rate him at all. He just does not look the part as PM.0 -
I've just said the same thing (great minds think alike? Or fools seldom differ?). The Tories have been in power for eight very difficult years with much sturm und drang. They don't seem to have much fire in their bellies.NickPalmer said:
He is, but more than anyone else in frontline politics he appears to stand for precisely nothing. The Tories look tired out - more than a charismatic leader they need a leader who has a concept for what their purpose is, after Brexit's done.HYUFD said:
Do they? They still managed to win 56 more seats than Corbyn led Labour in June despite a very dull leader and one of the worst campaigns in history. Though if charisma is needed for a majority Boris is still by far and away the best on that scoreCyclefree said:
Corbyn has a certain amount of charisma, particularly when campaigning. The Tories need someone who can inspire others not send them to sleep.HYUFD said:
Corbyn does not either and at least Williamson completed his degree unlike the leader of the opposition who dropped out of his course at London Metropolitan UniversityThe_Taxman said:
Interestingly, he got his degree in social sciences from Bradford University.Cyclefree said:Gavin Williamson looks like an intern on work experience.
Not a possible PM.
I don't rate him at all. He just does not look the part as PM.0 -
Leading the opposition seems much too much of a bore chore for Jezza, the UK Chancy Gardener.Cyclefree said:
Corbyn has a certain amount of charisma, particularly when campaigning. The Tories need someone who can inspire others not send them to sleep.HYUFD said:
Corbyn does not either and at least Williamson completed his degree unlike the leader of the opposition who dropped out of his course at London Metropolitan UniversityThe_Taxman said:
Interestingly, he got his degree in social sciences from Bradford University.Cyclefree said:Gavin Williamson looks like an intern on work experience.
Not a possible PM.
I don't rate him at all. He just does not look the part as PM.
That said, can someone please put Theresa out of her misery. It is excruciating and painful to even hear her robotic voice.
0 -
Of course not but I was just making the point Williamson is hardly up against an Oxford 1st. The film was very good, Oldman was excellentDecrepitJohnL said:
I take it you'd have supported Lord Halifax BA (Oxon) over the non-graduate Churchill in May 1940. How was the film btw?HYUFD said:
Corbyn does not either and at least Williamson completed his degree unlike the leader of the opposition who dropped out of his course at London Metropolitan UniversityThe_Taxman said:
Interestingly, he got his degree in social sciences from Bradford University.Cyclefree said:Gavin Williamson looks like an intern on work experience.
Not a possible PM.
I don't rate him at all. He just does not look the part as PM.0 -
Was that you on Twitter getting a doing for trying to promote the Empire being a shining example of free trade rather than the gunboat diplomacy it was in realityHYUFD said:
Do they? They still managed to win 56 more seats than Corbyn led Labour in June despite a very dull leader and one of the worst campaigns in history. Though if charisma is needed for a majority Boris is still by far and away the best on that scoreCyclefree said:
Corbyn has a certain amount of charisma, particularly when campaigning. The Tories need someone who can inspire others not send them to sleep.HYUFD said:
Corbyn does not either and at least Williamson completed his degree unlike the leader of the opposition who dropped out of his course at London Metropolitan UniversityThe_Taxman said:
Interestingly, he got his degree in social sciences from Bradford University.Cyclefree said:Gavin Williamson looks like an intern on work experience.
Not a possible PM.
I don't rate him at all. He just does not look the part as PM.0 -
Boris stands very clearly for Boris. He has made that absolutely clear.NickPalmer said:
He is, but more than anyone else in frontline politics he appears to stand for precisely nothing. The Tories look tired out - more than a charismatic leader they need a leader who has a concept for what their purpose is, after Brexit's done.HYUFD said:
Do they? They still managed to win 56 more seats than Corbyn led Labour in June despite a very dull leader and one of the worst campaigns in history. Though if charisma is needed for a majority Boris is still by far and away the best on that scoreCyclefree said:
Corbyn has a certain amount of charisma, particularly when campaigning. The Tories need someone who can inspire others not send them to sleep.HYUFD said:
Corbyn does not either and at least Williamson completed his degree unlike the leader of the opposition who dropped out of his course at London Metropolitan UniversityThe_Taxman said:
Interestingly, he got his degree in social sciences from Bradford University.Cyclefree said:Gavin Williamson looks like an intern on work experience.
Not a possible PM.
I don't rate him at all. He just does not look the part as PM.
0 -
Governing seems just too tough from whichever angle you look at it Nick. As much as I want to see the Tories out of power for so many reasons, I couldn't imagine Corbyn making a particularly good fist of the chaos that the Tories have made of public services, dividing the country and bringing Brexit on us, and that is without even considering the imbecile across the pond.NickPalmer said:
He is, but more than anyone else in frontline politics he appears to stand for precisely nothing. The Tories look tired out - more than a charismatic leader they need a leader who has a concept for what their purpose is, after Brexit's done.HYUFD said:
Do they? They still managed to win 56 more seats than Corbyn led Labour in June despite a very dull leader and one of the worst campaigns in history. Though if charisma is needed for a majority Boris is still by far and away the best on that scoreCyclefree said:
Corbyn has a certain amount of charisma, particularly when campaigning. The Tories need someone who can inspire others not send them to sleep.HYUFD said:
Corbyn does not either and at least Williamson completed his degree unlike the leader of the opposition who dropped out of his course at London Metropolitan UniversityThe_Taxman said:
Interestingly, he got his degree in social sciences from Bradford University.Cyclefree said:Gavin Williamson looks like an intern on work experience.
Not a possible PM.
I don't rate him at all. He just does not look the part as PM.
Do you think Jeremy looks in the mirror and really believes that his answers stuck in the New Left politics of the early 70's bear any resemblance to today?
0 -
Keeping taxes lower than under Corbyn would be a start, it at least worked for Major in 1992. Though I can't see the Tories stretching the elastic more than 1 more term and then it will largely because of Corbyn as it was because of Kinnock in large part they got a 4th term in 1992NickPalmer said:
He is, but more than anyone else in frontline politics he appears to stand for precisely nothing. The Tories look tired out - more than a charismatic leader they need a leader who has a concept for what their purpose is, after Brexit's done.HYUFD said:
Do they? They still managed to win 56 more seats than Corbyn led Labour in June despite a very dull leader and one of the worst campaigns in history. Though if charisma is needed for a majority Boris is still by far and away the best on that scoreCyclefree said:
Corbyn has a certain amount of charisma, particularly when campaigning. The Tories need someone who can inspire others not send them to sleep.HYUFD said:
Corbyn does not either and at least Williamson completed his degree unlike the leader of the opposition who dropped out of his course at London Metropolitan UniversityThe_Taxman said:
Interestingly, he got his degree in social sciences from Bradford University.Cyclefree said:Gavin Williamson looks like an intern on work experience.
Not a possible PM.
I don't rate him at all. He just does not look the part as PM.0 -
I get a doing on Twitter for a lot of things, just following Brandon Lewis' call today for Tories to be more active in taking on the left on social mediamalcolmg said:
Was that you on Twitter getting a doing for trying to promote the Empire being a shining example of free trade rather than the gunboat diplomacy it was in realityHYUFD said:
Do they? They still managed to win 56 more seats than Corbyn led Labour in June despite a very dull leader and one of the worst campaigns in history. Though if charisma is needed for a majority Boris is still by far and away the best on that scoreCyclefree said:
Corbyn has a certain amount of charisma, particularly when campaigning. The Tories need someone who can inspire others not send them to sleep.HYUFD said:
Corbyn does not either and at least Williamson completed his degree unlike the leader of the opposition who dropped out of his course at London Metropolitan UniversityThe_Taxman said:
Interestingly, he got his degree in social sciences from Bradford University.Cyclefree said:Gavin Williamson looks like an intern on work experience.
Not a possible PM.
I don't rate him at all. He just does not look the part as PM.0 -
As evidenced by the benefit of their experience offered to us all by one Mr Brown and Mrs May?HYUFD said:
Well anything is possible of course but it is extremely unlikely the next PM will not be at least in the Cabinet and very likely in a senior Cabinet position. Being PM is just not something you can prepare for on the job without experience of a high profile role beforehand, which means either being a former Cabinet Minister or Leader of the Opposition.kle4 said:
You've long persisted in this view that they cannot, when what you mean is theyshould not do the same for PM. That and other reasons will mean it has not happened, not that it never will.HYUFD said:
You can go from the backbenches or junior minister to opposition leader on rare occasions as Corbyn has, you cannot do the same for PM, you just do not have the experience of coping under that level of pressureBig_G_NorthWales said:
There is always a first timeHYUFD said:
If it is not Boris, Davis, Gove or Mogg then Williamson and Hinds are now well placed (with Mourdaunt and Lewis and Bradley and McVey and Hancock outside shots) as the key new and younger faces in the Cabinet following the reshuffle. No PM has got the post in government without having been in the Cabinet firstBig_G_NorthWales said:
I have no idea of the veracity of these rumours but what is certain is that there are factions within the party all jockeying for position when either TM decides to call it a day or more likely is asked to stand down ( but not before Brexit is clearer).DecrepitJohnL said:Are we to believe this account? It smacks rather of post hoc rationalisation, and is Nick Timothy really that powerful or is this to be understood as code for the PM herself?
I respect Hyfud for his knowledge of all things conservative but I absolutely do not agree Boris, Davis, Mogg or Gove will get anywhere near the leadership.
A new face is needed and also time which is what TM is providing.
While the cabinet was largely unchanged new faces have been promoted and Brandon Lewis has made a good high profile media start to his Chairmanship.
I do not think remain or leave will be relevant to TM's successor and expect a surprise or two on the way0 -
If the Tories scraped another election, which I severely doubt....it would probably be the end of the party. Their best hope is for Labour to win with a weak coalition Govt and watch from the sidelines for a few years or so....HYUFD said:
Keeping taxes lower than under Corbyn would be a start, it at least worked for Major in 1992. Though I can't see the Tories stretching the elastic more than 1 more term and then it will largely because of Corbyn as it was because of Kinnock in large part they got a 4th term in 1992NickPalmer said:
He is, but more than anyone else in frontline politics he appears to stand for precisely nothing. The Tories look tired out - more than a charismatic leader they need a leader who has a concept for what their purpose is, after Brexit's done.HYUFD said:
Do they? They still managed to win 56 more seats than Corbyn led Labour in June despite a very dull leader and one of the worst campaigns in history. Though if charisma is needed for a majority Boris is still by far and away the best on that scoreCyclefree said:
Corbyn has a certain amount of charisma, particularly when campaigning. The Tories need someone who can inspire others not send them to sleep.HYUFD said:
Corbyn does not either and at least Williamson completed his degree unlike the leader of the opposition who dropped out of his course at London Metropolitan UniversityThe_Taxman said:
Interestingly, he got his degree in social sciences from Bradford University.Cyclefree said:Gavin Williamson looks like an intern on work experience.
Not a possible PM.
I don't rate him at all. He just does not look the part as PM.
0 -
Selective memory Tyson. The Labour Party CF Gordon Brown fecked the UK royally and it will take decades to recover. There really is no magic money tree , even if, to you, the Govt looks incompetent.tyson said:
Governing seems just too tough from whichever angle you look at it Nick. As much as I want to see the Tories out of power for so many reasons, I couldn't imagine Corbyn making a particularly good fist of the chaos that the Tories have made of public services, dividing the country and bringing Brexit on us, and that is without even considering the imbecile across the pond.NickPalmer said:
He is, but more than anyone else in frontline politics he appears to stand for precisely nothing. The Tories look tired out - more than a charismatic leader they need a leader who has a concept for what their purpose is, after Brexit's done.HYUFD said:
Do they? They still managed to win 56 more seats than Corbyn led Labour in June despite a very dull leader and one of the worst campaigns in history. Though if charisma is needed for a majority Boris is still by far and away the best on that scoreCyclefree said:
Corbyn has a certain amount of charisma, particularly when campaigning. The Tories need someone who can inspire others not send them to sleep.HYUFD said:
Corbyn does not either and at least Williamson completed his degree unlike the leader of the opposition who dropped out of his course at London Metropolitan UniversityThe_Taxman said:
Interestingly, he got his degree in social sciences from Bradford University.Cyclefree said:Gavin Williamson looks like an intern on work experience.
Not a possible PM.
I don't rate him at all. He just does not look the part as PM.
Do you think Jeremy looks in the mirror and really believes that his answers stuck in the New Left politics of the early 70's bear any resemblance to today?0 -
Or Eden, Macmillan, Home, Callaghan, Major and virtually every other PM who has taken over in governmentIanB2 said:
As evidenced by the benefit of their experience offered to us all by one Mr Brown and Mrs May?HYUFD said:
Well anything is possible of course but it is extremely unlikely the next PM will not be at least in the Cabinet and very likely in a senior Cabinet position. Being PM is just not something you can prepare for on the job without experience of a high profile role beforehand, which means either being a former Cabinet Minister or Leader of the Opposition.kle4 said:
You've long persisted in this view that they cannot, when what you mean is theyshould not do the same for PM. That and other reasons will mean it has not happened, not that it never will.HYUFD said:
You can go from the backbenches or junior minister to opposition leader on rare occasions as Corbyn has, you cannot do the same for PM, you just do not have the experience of coping under that level of pressureBig_G_NorthWales said:
There is always a first timeHYUFD said:
If it is not Boris, Davis, Gove or Mogg then Williamson and Hinds are now well placed (with Mourdaunt and Lewis and Bradley and McVey and Hancock outside shots) as the key new and younger faces in the Cabinet following the reshuffle. No PM has got the post in government without having been in the Cabinet firstBig_G_NorthWales said:
I have no idea of the veracity of these rumours but what is certain is that there are factions within the party all jockeying for position when either TM decides to call it a day or more likely is asked to stand down ( but not before Brexit is clearer).DecrepitJohnL said:Are we to believe this account? It smacks rather of post hoc rationalisation, and is Nick Timothy really that powerful or is this to be understood as code for the PM herself?
I respect Hyfud for his knowledge of all things conservative but I absolutely do not agree Boris, Davis, Mogg or Gove will get anywhere near the leadership.
A new face is needed and also time which is what TM is providing.
While the cabinet was largely unchanged new faces have been promoted and Brandon Lewis has made a good high profile media start to his Chairmanship.
I do not think remain or leave will be relevant to TM's successor and expect a surprise or two on the way0 -
You may be right but it would not be the end of the party, even in 1997 almost a third of the country voted for themtyson said:
If the Tories scraped another election, which I severely doubt....it would probably be the end of the party. Their best hope is for Labour to win with a weak coalition Govt and watch from the sidelines for a few years or so....HYUFD said:
Keeping taxes lower than under Corbyn would be a start, it at least worked for Major in 1992. Though I can't see the Tories stretching the elastic more than 1 more term and then it will largely because of Corbyn as it was because of Kinnock in large part they got a 4th term in 1992NickPalmer said:
He is, but more than anyone else in frontline politics he appears to stand for precisely nothing. The Tories look tired out - more than a charismatic leader they need a leader who has a concept for what their purpose is, after Brexit's done.HYUFD said:
Do they? They still managed to win 56 more seats than Corbyn led Labour in June despite a very dull leader and one of the worst campaigns in history. Though if charisma is needed for a majority Boris is still by far and away the best on that scoreCyclefree said:
Corbyn has a certain amount of charisma, particularly when campaigning. The Tories need someone who can inspire others not send them to sleep.HYUFD said:
Corbyn does not either and at least Williamson completed his degree unlike the leader of the opposition who dropped out of his course at London Metropolitan UniversityThe_Taxman said:
Interestingly, he got his degree in social sciences from Bradford University.Cyclefree said:Gavin Williamson looks like an intern on work experience.
Not a possible PM.
I don't rate him at all. He just does not look the part as PM.0 -
@squareroot....
Do you honestly believe that stuff you write? The worst thing Labour did was to be so reliant on an unregulated banking sector that collapsed the tax receipts for the economy. But as with any economic crisis the party in power usually takes the hit.
The state of the NHS and Social Care today, this minute, is appalling and a tragedy caused by this Govt's ideology, ambivalence and sheer incompetence...;it is an absolute disgrace what people are facing this winter, many elderly and at their most vulnerable....
0 -
Apart from Macmillan, not a great track record....HYUFD said:
Or Eden, Macmillan, Home, Callaghan, Major and virtually every other PM who has taken over in governmentIanB2 said:
As evidenced by the benefit of their experience offered to us all by one Mr Brown and Mrs May?HYUFD said:
Well anything is possible of course but it is extremely unlikely the next PM will not be at least in the Cabinet and very likely in a senior Cabinet position. Being PM is just not something you can prepare for on the job without experience of a high profile role beforehand, which means either being a former Cabinet Minister or Leader of the Opposition.kle4 said:
You've long persisted in this view that they cannot, when what you mean is theyshould not do the same for PM. That and other reasons will mean it has not happened, not that it never will.HYUFD said:
You can go from the backbenches or junior minister to opposition leader on rare occasions as Corbyn has, you cannot do the same for PM, you just do not have the experience of coping under that level of pressureBig_G_NorthWales said:
There is always a first timeHYUFD said:
If it is not Boris, Davis, Gove or Mogg then Williamson and Hinds are now well placed (with Mourdaunt and Lewis and Bradley and McVey and Hancock outside shots) as the key new and younger faces in the Cabinet following the reshuffle. No PM has got the post in government without having been in the Cabinet firstBig_G_NorthWales said:
I have no idea of the veracity of these rumours but what is certain is that there are factions within the party all jockeying for position when either TM decides to call it a day or more likely is asked to stand down ( but not before Brexit is clearer).DecrepitJohnL said:Are we to believe this account? It smacks rather of post hoc rationalisation, and is Nick Timothy really that powerful or is this to be understood as code for the PM herself?
I respect Hyfud for his knowledge of all things conservative but I absolutely do not agree Boris, Davis, Mogg or Gove will get anywhere near the leadership.
A new face is needed and also time which is what TM is providing.
While the cabinet was largely unchanged new faces have been promoted and Brandon Lewis has made a good high profile media start to his Chairmanship.
I do not think remain or leave will be relevant to TM's successor and expect a surprise or two on the way0
This discussion has been closed.