Thanks Harry

Insider information, TSE?

https://mobile.twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/941738729244422145

williamglenn said:

Citizen of somewhere calls for a ceasefire:
https://twitter.com/NickJTimothy/status/941734642352259072

Not a single Leaver is stupid, racist or protectionist? Must be Russki bots pumping out all that crap.

According to the BBC the rebel alliance and the government have reached an agreement about Brexit day. It will be the date stipulated in the Act but the Minister will have the power to defer the date if negotiations are continuing.

May doesn’t need any more defeats and I think Grieve recognises that.

More places should have exclamation marks in their names.

I thought she might have a reshuffle after the Xmas break but if the hornets are quiescent, she might not want to poke them with a stick.

FPT @Andrew @Topping. We've had this GBP/USD discussion before (2017-01-15, 2016-10-08, 2016-07-26), and we will again. Below are the rates in dollars for 1GBP on or immediately after January 1st each year since 2010.

2010: 1.6150
2011: 1.5610
2012: 1.5507
2013: 1.6245
2014: 1.6554
2015: 1.5571
2016: 1.4740
2017: 1.2302

Yesterday: 1.3424

Sources
h ttp://www.exchangerates.org.uk/GBP-USD-01_01_2010-exchange-rate-history.html
h ttp://www.exchangerates.org.uk/GBP-USD-01_01_2011-exchange-rate-history.html
h ttp://www.exchangerates.org.uk/GBP-USD-01_01_2012-exchange-rate-history.html
h ttp://www.exchangerates.org.uk/GBP-USD-01_01_2013-exchange-rate-history.html
h ttps://www.poundsterlinglive.com/best-exchange-rates/british-pound-to-us-dollar-exchange-rate-on-2014-01-01
h ttps://www.poundsterlinglive.com/best-exchange-rates/british-pound-to-us-dollar-exchange-rate-on-2015-01-01
h ttps://www.poundsterlinglive.com/best-exchange-rates/british-pound-to-us-dollar-exchange-rate-on-2016-01-01
h ttps://www.poundsterlinglive.com/best-exchange-rates/british-pound-to-us-dollar-exchange-rate-on-2017-01-01
h ttps://www.poundsterlinglive.com/bank-of-england-spot/historical-spot-exchange-rates/gbp/GBP-to-USD-2017

tlg86 said:

More places should have exclamation marks in their names.

Or tildes. Or hashes. Or carets...

"Where are you from, Ingmar? I from ~#@^::on-the-wold, Svensson. It is cold, yes? Ya..."

Derby Ward West Lancashire June 29th. Two party hegemony in West Lancashire weakened for first time in decades.

williamglenn said:

Citizen of somewhere calls for a ceasefire:
https://twitter.com/NickJTimothy/status/941734642352259072

Did he read my header?

@Cyclefree - do you not mean loony left?

tlg86 said:

@Cyclefree - do you not mean loony left?

No. Loony right because I was referring to Farage’s dog whistle referendum campaign and his views on Jews which echo anti-semitic tropes and making the point that we have seen similar tactics within the Left as well, as @ another_richard had pointed out.

tlg86 said:

Lol! Just found the strapline for the flying pigs advert from 2005:

"They say the Tory sums add up"

Well, Labour's didn't, that's for sure!

And the Tories never have, or, will.....

I would like to nominate the by-election from a couple of weeks back where the LibDem candidate was called Leaver.

Cyclefree said:

williamglenn said:

Citizen of somewhere calls for a ceasefire:
https://twitter.com/NickJTimothy/status/941734642352259072

Did he read my header?

It seems not everyone did.
https://twitter.com/thequentinletts/status/941754685425364997

Richard_Tyndall said:

DavidL said:

According to the BBC the rebel alliance and the government have reached an agreement about Brexit day. It will be the date stipulated in the Act but the Minister will have the power to defer the date if negotiations are continuing.

May doesn’t need any more defeats and I think Grieve recognises that.

Trouble is that May will not have the power to defer it. That power will rest with the other 27 nations, every single one of whom will have to agree. This is rather like the rebel motion that was won on Wednesday. Whilst good because it sets a precedent, it is effectively meaningless as it is just like Cnut's advisors telling him he can stop the sea coming in.

If we get to the 11th hour you've got to wonder what the likelihood is of a unanimous agreement to a deferral.

Some countries will be as sick of the word Brexit as we will be and will probably be glad to get it over with.

JonnyJimmy said:

Is it possible to not want freedom of movement and to not be a stupid racist?

The problem with that argument is the UK is going to get huge immigration whether the UK is in the EU or not. So those who hated the European immigrants will now have a different target, which will be from countries outside of Europe. The UK economy needs an ever expanding workforce to keep paying out for pensions, benefits, the NHS etc as demographics left to themselves would have the proportion of working taxpayers fall relative to those in receipt of government transfers.

The_Taxman said:

williamglenn said:

Cyclefree said:

williamglenn said:

Citizen of somewhere calls for a ceasefire:
https://twitter.com/NickJTimothy/status/941734642352259072

Did he read my header?

It seems not everyone did.
https://twitter.com/thequentinletts/status/941754685425364997

I think the QL twitter post is offensive. It is estimated one to two million people died as a result of Indian Independence and the consequential partition of India and Pakistan into two states. I don't think Brexit is remotely in the same league, yes I am one of those who can be described as a Remain supporter but this is only because I see Brexit as a diminution of future economic output and political influence.

There will not be massacres as a result of Brexit.

I have always thought QL is a complete prat and his attempts at trying to be funny have always fallen on sterile ground as far as I am concerned.

+1

JonnyJimmy said:

A dear friend went to Pru Leith's cookery school. And it really does give you the juiciest breasts.

My mind is really in the gutter

But many of the girls at Pru Leiths are truly delightful

JonnyJimmy said:

Charles said:

NickPalmer said:

The_Taxman said:

williamglenn said:

Cyclefree said:

williamglenn said:

Citizen of somewhere calls for a ceasefire:
https://twitter.com/NickJTimothy/status/941734642352259072

Did he read my header?

It seems not everyone did.
https://twitter.com/thequentinletts/status/941754685425364997

I think the QL twitter post is offensive. It is estimated one to two million people died as a result of Indian Independence and the consequential partition of India and Pakistan into two states. I don't think Brexit is remotely in the same league, yes I am one of those who can be described as a Remain supporter but this is only because I see Brexit as a diminution of future economic output and political influence.

There will not be massacres as a result of Brexit.

I have always thought QL is a complete prat and his attempts at trying to be funny have always fallen on sterile ground as far as I am concerned.

+1

I suspect it is ignorance rather than a desire to be offensive. He is thinking about the willingness of the British Empire to release India (even if in practice they had no choice) rather than Partition and the consequences thereof.

We haven't had our post-Brexit partition yet.

still don't think many would die as a consequence even if it happened, which I suspect it won't

anothernick said:

JonnyJimmy said:

The_Taxman said:

JonnyJimmy said:

Is it possible to not want freedom of movement and to not be a stupid racist?

The problem with that argument is the UK is going to get huge immigration whether the UK is in the EU or not. So those who hated the European immigrants will now have a different target, which will be from countries outside of Europe. The UK economy needs an ever expanding workforce to keep paying out for pensions, benefits, the NHS etc as demographics left to themselves would have the proportion of working taxpayers fall relative to those in receipt of government transfers.

Legal immigration may well remain very high, and that will be the choice of the government in power.

Do you think any of those future governments will decide that any Polish lady with a kid should be allowed to declare herself homeless on the day of her arrival here, and so be moved ahead of all childless homeless people in the desperate scramble for state aided accommodation?

Can you cite any documented examples of Polish ladies who have done this?

proof of a hypothetical is a tad difficult

david_herdson said:

Austria has a new government, which may not be wholly to the liking of sniffy EU bureaucrats. Austria holds the EU presidency in the second half of 2018 i.e. when the Phase 2 talks get serious.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-austria-politics/austrias-kurz-strikes-deal-to-bring-far-right-into-government-idUSKBN1E928K?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_content=5a344cf004d3010dbdd667b1&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

Much as the EU likes to pretend otherwise, it seems to me that the EU is not in the halest of health. Oh dear, does that make us rats?

david_herdson said:

Charles said:

NickPalmer said:

The_Taxman said:

williamglenn said:

Cyclefree said:

williamglenn said:

Citizen of somewhere calls for a ceasefire:
https://twitter.com/NickJTimothy/status/941734642352259072

Did he read my header?

It seems not everyone did.
https://twitter.com/thequentinletts/status/941754685425364997

I think the QL twitter post is offensive. It is estimated one to two million people died as a result of Indian Independence and the consequential partition of India and Pakistan into two states. I don't think Brexit is remotely in the same league, yes I am one of those who can be described as a Remain supporter but this is only because I see Brexit as a diminution of future economic output and political influence.

There will not be massacres as a result of Brexit.

I have always thought QL is a complete prat and his attempts at trying to be funny have always fallen on sterile ground as far as I am concerned.

+1

I suspect it is ignorance rather than a desire to be offensive. He is thinking about the willingness of the British Empire to release India (even if in practice they had no choice) rather than Partition and the consequences thereof.

Never mind the offensiveness (which should be taken as a given with Letts), it's historically absurd. Independence didn't happen overnight for India (and Pakistan): it took a quarter of a century of hard campaigning to win - and even then was substantially affected by the impact of WWII. It's one of history's great unknowns as to how things would have panned out had the Government of India Act (1935) been fully implemented.

The 1935 Act formed the basis of India's interim constitution between 1947 and 1950 (when she became a Republic).

JonnyJimmy said:

tlg86 said:

Out of interest, do you think the poster before the referendum helped or hindered Leave?

I know you didn't ask me, but I think it did help leave.

I don't and didn't like it, but it did remind me of what Merkel had just done. As I'm sure it was designed to do.

I would never have seen the poster if it weren't for the angry reporting of how evil it was.

I think most of the outrage was because it did precisely what you've described. My biggest problem with it is that I'm not sure it's that much of an issue - I think most of those who went to Germany will stay in Europe. But I think it was perfectly legitimate to bring it up.

FeersumEnjineeya said:

It's interesting that everyone seems to see freedom of movement purely in terms of immigration to the UK. Is nobody concerned about the loss of the rights of UK citizens to live and work in the EU?

Yes, I am. And have said so before on here. Both for myself and my children.

https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/941789744559788032

HHemmelig said:

JonnyJimmy said:

The_Taxman said:

JonnyJimmy said:

Is it possible to not want freedom of movement and to not be a stupid racist?

The problem with that argument is the UK is going to get huge immigration whether the UK is in the EU or not. So those who hated the European immigrants will now have a different target, which will be from countries outside of Europe. The UK economy needs an ever expanding workforce to keep paying out for pensions, benefits, the NHS etc as demographics left to themselves would have the proportion of working taxpayers fall relative to those in receipt of government transfers.

Legal immigration may well remain very high, and that will be the choice of the government in power.

Do you think any of those future governments will decide that any Polish lady with a kid should be allowed to declare herself homeless on the day of her arrival here, and so be moved ahead of all childless homeless people in the desperate scramble for state aided accommodation?

Don't you watch all those Channel 5 benefits porn shows? Councils demand hard proof that you have been made homeless by bona fide circumstance. If you are suspected to have intentionally made yourself homeless the council will refuse to help, kids or not.

Even if your Polish lady wangled accommodation from the council it would most likely be in a grotty B&B for a year or two before she could even dream of a flat or house. Plenty of families have been stuck in that situation for years on end.

Without having seen the programmes you mention, those "plenty of families" must feel that it's better than the alternative?

FeersumEnjineeya said:

It's interesting that everyone seems to see freedom of movement purely in terms of immigration to the UK. Is nobody concerned about the loss of the rights of UK citizens to live and work in the EU?

This weighed heavily on my mind in the run up to the referendum because i'd always planned to have a second home in the Med for retirement.

It wasn't enough however to outweigh my feeling that this was only ever going to be a one-shot option for leaving. If Remain had won I doubt very much we'd see another referendum on the subject in my lifetime.

HHemmelig said:

ReggieCide said:

HHemmelig said:

JonnyJimmy said:

The_Taxman said:

JonnyJimmy said:

Is it possible to not want freedom of movement and to not be a stupid racist?

The problem with that argument is the UK is going to get huge immigration whether the UK is in the EU or not. So those who hated the European immigrants will now have a different target, which will be from countries outside of Europe. The UK economy needs an ever expanding workforce to keep paying out for pensions, benefits, the NHS etc as demographics left to themselves would have the proportion of working taxpayers fall relative to those in receipt of government transfers.

Legal immigration may well remain very high, and that will be the choice of the government in power.

Do you think any of those future governments will decide that any Polish lady with a kid should be allowed to declare herself homeless on the day of her arrival here, and so be moved ahead of all childless homeless people in the desperate scramble for state aided accommodation?

Don't you watch all those Channel 5 benefits porn shows? Councils demand hard proof that you have been made homeless by bona fide circumstance. If you are suspected to have intentionally made yourself homeless the council will refuse to help, kids or not.

Even if your Polish lady wangled accommodation from the council it would most likely be in a grotty B&B for a year or two before she could even dream of a flat or house. Plenty of families have been stuck in that situation for years on end.

Without having seen the programmes you mention, those "plenty of families" must feel that it's better than the alternative?

It's better than the alternative for society as well, unless you want to return to a Dickensian past of innocent children forced to sleep on the streets.

you missed off the chimney bit!

FeersumEnjineeya said:

Cyclefree said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

It's interesting that everyone seems to see freedom of movement purely in terms of immigration to the UK. Is nobody concerned about the loss of the rights of UK citizens to live and work in the EU?

Yes, I am. And have said so before on here. Both for myself and my children.

For me the potential loss of the right to live and work in the EU was a major reason for voting to remain. It's a right that I have made good use of and may well have wished to use again in the future and is a very tangible loss of freedom. My son, fortunately, has dual British and German nationality and will therefore enjoy a positive advantage in the future labour market, so it's not all bad at a personal level!

Well we all have Irish nationality as well so are in the same position.

To be fair, though, I do remember the world before membership when my Italian mother had no difficulty living here and we all routinely travelled round Europe and I spent time living in Europe with my Italian family.

I appreciate that I benefited. Others may have a different perspective if they only or largely saw downsides.

FF43 said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

It's interesting that everyone seems to see freedom of movement purely in terms of immigration to the UK. Is nobody concerned about the loss of the rights of UK citizens to live and work in the EU?

Freedom of Movement is taking a liberty that can only be supported by those who impose their prejudices on other people.

Fixed it for you.

SunnyJim said:

FF43 said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

It's interesting that everyone seems to see freedom of movement purely in terms of immigration to the UK. Is nobody concerned about the loss of the rights of UK citizens to live and work in the EU?

Freedom of Movement is taking a liberty that can only be supported by those who impose their prejudices on other people.

Fixed it for you.

I kind of object to this because someone reading that blockquote might think I actually wrote it. I know you are making a point, which you are perfectly entitled to do, of course.

FF43 said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

It's interesting that everyone seems to see freedom of movement purely in terms of immigration to the UK. Is nobody concerned about the loss of the rights of UK citizens to live and work in the EU?

Freedom of Movement is liberty that can only be taken away by jobsworths and those who impose their prejudices on other people.

Best I can do is re-quote your original.

HHemmelig said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

Cyclefree said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

It's interesting that everyone seems to see freedom of movement purely in terms of immigration to the UK. Is nobody concerned about the loss of the rights of UK citizens to live and work in the EU?

Yes, I am. And have said so before on here. Both for myself and my children.

For me the potential loss of the right to live and work in the EU was a major reason for voting to remain. It's a right that I have made good use of and may well have wished to use again in the future and is a very tangible loss of freedom. My son, fortunately, has dual British and German nationality and will therefore enjoy a positive advantage in the future labour market, so it's not all bad at a personal level!

All that applies to me as well. I'm happy my kids are dual UK-US nationals. Fortunately the "end to free movement" much trumpeted by the government is likely to amount to diddly squat in reality. Perhaps a work permit scheme that is basically a formality, and a few tweaks to benefit entitlements will be permitted, but all that will realistically achieve is enabling us to deport a few Romanian beggars. The 99% of migrants who are here to work hard won't be deterred and nor will business allow the government to keep them out. The fields will still be full of Latvian strawberry pickers and Pret A Manger full of Spanish baristas. A significant minority of Leave voters will feel very angry but for most life will just move on.

What work permits will do is ensure we only get high skilled workers we need not mass low skilled migration undermining the wages of the less well paid, exactly as polls show voters want to be a result of Brexit

HYUFD said:

HHemmelig said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

Cyclefree said:

FeersumEnjineeya said:

It's interesting that everyone seems to see freedom of movement purely in terms of immigration to the UK. Is nobody concerned about the loss of the rights of UK citizens to live and work in the EU?

Yes, I am. And have said so before on here. Both for myself and my children.

For me the potential loss of the right to live and work in the EU was a major reason for voting to remain. It's a right that I have made good use of and may well have wished to use again in the future and is a very tangible loss of freedom. My son, fortunately, has dual British and German nationality and will therefore enjoy a positive advantage in the future labour market, so it's not all bad at a personal level!

All that applies to me as well. I'm happy my kids are dual UK-US nationals. Fortunately the "end to free movement" much trumpeted by the government is likely to amount to diddly squat in reality. Perhaps a work permit scheme that is basically a formality, and a few tweaks to benefit entitlements will be permitted, but all that will realistically achieve is enabling us to deport a few Romanian beggars. The 99% of migrants who are here to work hard won't be deterred and nor will business allow the government to keep them out. The fields will still be full of Latvian strawberry pickers and Pret A Manger full of Spanish baristas. A significant minority of Leave voters will feel very angry but for most life will just move on.

What work permits will do is ensure we only get high skilled workers we need not mass low skilled migration undermining the wages of the less well paid, exactly as polls show voters want to be a result of Brexit

Oh, the so innocent meanderings of the incompetent. In the UK we do not have the numbers of low skilled wanting to accept the level of pay for the hard work required or, the numbers of highly qualified and experienced people able to pay the taxes to keep the UK pensioners in the life style they would find acceptable....

RobD said:

williamglenn said:

twitter.com/ScotNational/status/941789744559788032

Will they be publishing this advice?

I'd imagine a freely available newspaper quoting a 'top expert' qualifies as been published.

NickPalmer said:

The_Taxman said:

williamglenn said:

Cyclefree said:

williamglenn said:

Citizen of somewhere calls for a ceasefire:
https://twitter.com/NickJTimothy/status/941734642352259072

Did he read my header?

It seems not everyone did.
https://twitter.com/thequentinletts/status/941754685425364997

I think the QL twitter post is offensive. It is estimated one to two million people died as a result of Indian Independence and the consequential partition of India and Pakistan into two states. I don't think Brexit is remotely in the same league, yes I am one of those who can be described as a Remain supporter but this is only because I see Brexit as a diminution of future economic output and political influence.

There will not be massacres as a result of Brexit.

I have always thought QL is a complete prat and his attempts at trying to be funny have always fallen on sterile ground as far as I am concerned.

+1

-1

Casino_Royale said:

NickPalmer said:

The_Taxman said:

williamglenn said:

Cyclefree said:

williamglenn said:

Citizen of somewhere calls for a ceasefire:
https://twitter.com/NickJTimothy/status/941734642352259072

Did he read my header?

It seems not everyone did.
https://twitter.com/thequentinletts/status/941754685425364997

I think the QL twitter post is offensive. It is estimated one to two million people died as a result of Indian Independence and the consequential partition of India and Pakistan into two states. I don't think Brexit is remotely in the same league, yes I am one of those who can be described as a Remain supporter but this is only because I see Brexit as a diminution of future economic output and political influence.

There will not be massacres as a result of Brexit.

I have always thought QL is a complete prat and his attempts at trying to be funny have always fallen on sterile ground as far as I am concerned.

+1

-1

+2