Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Marf’s cartoon for tonight on TMay & Brexit

SystemSystem Posts: 12,114
edited November 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Marf’s cartoon for tonight on TMay & Brexit

politicalbetting.com is proudly powered by WordPress with "Neat!" theme. Entries (RSS) and Comments (RSS).

Read the full story here


Comments

  • First
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,576
    Quite good.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,216
    kle4 said:

    Quite good.

    Mildly disturbing, too.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,216
    Suggestion that the Saudis are detaining Lebanon's PM against his will:
    http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/11/10/saudi_arabia_accused_of_detaining_prime_minister_of_lebanon_as_fears_of.html

    The Middle East conspiracy stories I'm reading don't seem all that far fetched...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,169
    Two new threads?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,576
    Sandpit said:

    Two new threads?

    Local by-elections have a very short thread life thesedays.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,111
    edited November 2017
    kle4 said:
    Paging Malc, TUD et al!
  • RhubarbRhubarb Posts: 359
    Mortimer said:

    kle4 said:
    Paging Malc, TUD et al!
    It's dated April.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,111
    Rhubarb said:

    Mortimer said:

    kle4 said:
    Paging Malc, TUD et al!
    It's dated April.
    :(
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Mortimer said:

    kle4 said:
    Paging Malc, TUD et al!
    Errr, it's from April.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732
    Mortimer said:

    Rhubarb said:

    Mortimer said:

    kle4 said:
    Paging Malc, TUD et al!
    It's dated April.
    :(
    Who knows, support may be even lower :D
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,732
    Sandpit said:

    Two new threads?

    This is getting out of hand. Now there are two of them!
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    RobD said:

    This is getting out of hand. Now there are two of them!

    One of them is Fake News
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972
    Top 5 priorities of Leave voters in order from the Brexit negotiations according to a new Ashcroft poll

    1 The UK no longer having to make any payments to the EU
    2 The UK being able to negotiate its own FTAs with countries outside Europe
    3 The UK no longer being subject to ECJ judgements
    4 The UK being able to pick and choose which EU citizens can come to live and work in the UK rather than their having an automatic right to do so
    5 Keeping the City of London as Europe's biggest and most important financial centre

    Top 5 priorities of Remain voters in order from the Brexit negotiations

    1 Making sure the UK and EU having similar rules on financial services, so UK firms can easily do business in EU countries
    2 Ensuring UK and EU countries have common rules and safety standards on things like consumer goods
    3 Ensuring the UK and EU have a common approach to workers' rights
    4 Ensuring EU citizens already in the UK can remain here permanently
    5 Ensuring UK citizens already in other EU countries can live there permanently
    https://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2017/11/lord-ashcroft-voters-are-losing-confidence-that-a-good-brexit-deal-will-be-secured-for-britain.html
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,216
    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    Two new threads?

    This is getting out of hand. Now there are two of them!
    Ambassador, you spoil us....

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Why does the by-election review thread stay as the first thread for such a short time?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,119
    Poor Theresa...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972
    Scott_P said:
    MP compliments single fellow MP on her appearance and asks her out shock.

    Absurd!
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    HYUFD said:

    MP compliments single fellow MP on her appearance and asks her out shock.

    And asks her to destroy the letter
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972
    edited November 2017
    Scott_P said:

    HYUFD said:

    MP compliments single fellow MP on her appearance and asks her out shock.

    And asks her to destroy the letter
    Still does not equate to harassment as far as I can see, more to do with the fact he is married. More an issue for his wife than the object of his affections I suspect.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,576
    AndyJS said:

    Why does the by-election review thread stay as the first thread for such a short time?

    I don't know, but it used to be we didn't get follow up at all, so it's something at least.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    MP compliments single fellow MP on her appearance and asks her out shock.

    Absurd!
    Repeatedly, over a period of 20 years, with no hint of response

    Not sure whether that's harassment or stalking but either way it's despicable
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972
    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    MP compliments single fellow MP on her appearance and asks her out shock.

    Absurd!
    Repeatedly, over a period of 20 years, with no hint of response

    Not sure whether that's harassment or stalking but either way it's despicable
    In the context of recent allegations receiving some unwanted love letters from a rather delusional older man is not really in the same league
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,068
    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    MP compliments single fellow MP on her appearance and asks her out shock.

    Absurd!
    Repeatedly, over a period of 20 years, with no hint of response

    Not sure whether that's harassment or stalking but either way it's despicable
    In the context of recent allegations receiving some unwanted love letters from a rather delusional older man is not really in the same league
    I don't see what the issue is, here.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,576
    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    MP compliments single fellow MP on her appearance and asks her out shock.

    Absurd!
    Repeatedly, over a period of 20 years, with no hint of response

    Not sure whether that's harassment or stalking but either way it's despicable
    In the context of recent allegations receiving some unwanted love letters from a rather delusional older man is not really in the same league
    Not in the same league does not mean it was appropriate. Of course that will mean any punishment, as such, would not be in the same league either. The repetition in the face of the unwantedness seems the main issue.
  • Mortimer said:

    Rhubarb said:

    Mortimer said:

    kle4 said:
    Paging Malc, TUD et al!
    It's dated April.
    :(
    Paging an April Fool that's so foolish that they can't even get the month right.
  • calumcalum Posts: 3,046
    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    MP compliments single fellow MP on her appearance and asks her out shock.

    Absurd!
    Repeatedly, over a period of 20 years, with no hint of response

    Not sure whether that's harassment or stalking but either way it's despicable
    In the context of recent allegations receiving some unwanted love letters from a rather delusional older man is not really in the same league
    I don't see what the issue is, here.
    Seems rather odd she kept the notes
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    MP compliments single fellow MP on her appearance and asks her out shock.

    Absurd!
    Repeatedly, over a period of 20 years, with no hint of response

    Not sure whether that's harassment or stalking but either way it's despicable
    In the context of recent allegations receiving some unwanted love letters from a rather delusional older man is not really in the same league
    Not in the same league does not mean it was appropriate. Of course that will mean any punishment, as such, would not be in the same league either. The repetition in the face of the unwantedness seems the main issue.
    Spot on
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    MP compliments single fellow MP on her appearance and asks her out shock.

    Absurd!
    Repeatedly, over a period of 20 years, with no hint of response

    Not sure whether that's harassment or stalking but either way it's despicable
    In the context of recent allegations receiving some unwanted love letters from a rather delusional older man is not really in the same league
    Not in the same league does not mean it was appropriate. Of course that will mean any punishment, as such, would not be in the same league either. The repetition in the face of the unwantedness seems the main issue.

    Did she tell him it was unwanted?

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,216
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    MP compliments single fellow MP on her appearance and asks her out shock.

    Absurd!
    Over a period of two decades ?
    Bit of a pest, no ?

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,576
    edited November 2017

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    MP compliments single fellow MP on her appearance and asks her out shock.

    Absurd!
    Repeatedly, over a period of 20 years, with no hint of response

    Not sure whether that's harassment or stalking but either way it's despicable
    In the context of recent allegations receiving some unwanted love letters from a rather delusional older man is not really in the same league
    Not in the same league does not mean it was appropriate. Of course that will mean any punishment, as such, would not be in the same league either. The repetition in the face of the unwantedness seems the main issue.

    Did she tell him it was unwanted?

    Lack of reciprocity or acknowledgement would be a good indication he should take the hint, I would think generally, but I reserve full judgement pending other details should they emerge.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,216
    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    MP compliments single fellow MP on her appearance and asks her out shock.

    Absurd!
    Repeatedly, over a period of 20 years, with no hint of response

    Not sure whether that's harassment or stalking but either way it's despicable
    In the context of recent allegations receiving some unwanted love letters from a rather delusional older man is not really in the same league
    Who claimed it is ?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    kle4 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Why does the by-election review thread stay as the first thread for such a short time?

    I don't know, but it used to be we didn't get follow up at all, so it's something at least.
    We always used to discuss the results anyway, even without a thread.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    MP compliments single fellow MP on her appearance and asks her out shock.

    Absurd!
    Repeatedly, over a period of 20 years, with no hint of response

    Not sure whether that's harassment or stalking but either way it's despicable
    In the context of recent allegations receiving some unwanted love letters from a rather delusional older man is not really in the same league
    Not in the same league does not mean it was appropriate. Of course that will mean any punishment, as such, would not be in the same league either. The repetition in the face of the unwantedness seems the main issue.

    Did she tell him it was unwanted?

    No positive response in 20 years. Maybe he's slow to get the message?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,576
    AndyJS said:

    kle4 said:

    AndyJS said:

    Why does the by-election review thread stay as the first thread for such a short time?

    I don't know, but it used to be we didn't get follow up at all, so it's something at least.
    We always used to discuss the results anyway, even without a thread.
    There was mention - but there's not much to say is there? Tories held on fine in the south?
  • Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    MP compliments single fellow MP on her appearance and asks her out shock.

    Absurd!
    Repeatedly, over a period of 20 years, with no hint of response

    Not sure whether that's harassment or stalking but either way it's despicable
    In the context of recent allegations receiving some unwanted love letters from a rather delusional older man is not really in the same league
    Who claimed it is ?
    Clearly those who suspended him
  • Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    MP compliments single fellow MP on her appearance and asks her out shock.

    Absurd!
    Repeatedly, over a period of 20 years, with no hint of response

    Not sure whether that's harassment or stalking but either way it's despicable
    In the context of recent allegations receiving some unwanted love letters from a rather delusional older man is not really in the same league
    Who claimed it is ?
    Clearly those who suspended him
    That's not what he was suspended for.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,216

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    MP compliments single fellow MP on her appearance and asks her out shock.

    Absurd!
    Repeatedly, over a period of 20 years, with no hint of response

    Not sure whether that's harassment or stalking but either way it's despicable
    In the context of recent allegations receiving some unwanted love letters from a rather delusional older man is not really in the same league
    Who claimed it is ?
    Clearly those who suspended him
    Not unless they were precogs....
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/02/labour/?WT.mc_id=tmg_share_tw
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,576
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    MP compliments single fellow MP on her appearance and asks her out shock.

    Absurd!
    Repeatedly, over a period of 20 years, with no hint of response

    Not sure whether that's harassment or stalking but either way it's despicable
    In the context of recent allegations receiving some unwanted love letters from a rather delusional older man is not really in the same league
    Who claimed it is ?
    Clearly those who suspended him
    Not unless they were precogs....
    I believe that has been suggested as the solution to this whole problem.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,216
    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    MP compliments single fellow MP on her appearance and asks her out shock.

    Absurd!
    Repeatedly, over a period of 20 years, with no hint of response

    Not sure whether that's harassment or stalking but either way it's despicable
    In the context of recent allegations receiving some unwanted love letters from a rather delusional older man is not really in the same league
    Who claimed it is ?
    Clearly those who suspended him
    Not unless they were precogs....
    I believe that has been suggested as the solution to this whole problem.
    It is just a little bit extraordinary to me how many of those who huff and puff about how ridiculous these cases are don't seem to have bothered to have first ascertained the basic facts in question.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,216
    The next domino in the Mueller investigation...couldn't make this stuff up:
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/nov/10/michael-flynn-trump-turkish-dissident-cleric-plot
  • Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    MP compliments single fellow MP on her appearance and asks her out shock.

    Absurd!
    Repeatedly, over a period of 20 years, with no hint of response

    Not sure whether that's harassment or stalking but either way it's despicable
    In the context of recent allegations receiving some unwanted love letters from a rather delusional older man is not really in the same league
    Who claimed it is ?
    Clearly those who suspended him
    Not unless they were precogs....
    I believe that has been suggested as the solution to this whole problem.
    It is just a little bit extraordinary to me how many of those who huff and puff about how ridiculous these cases are don't seem to have bothered to have first ascertained the basic facts in question.
    I assume you are referring to those who are doing the suspending. Given that some of the highest profile cases have seen people suspended with no indications of why and even they have not been informed and that some of the cases are turning out to be little short of ludicrous this has all the hallmarks of a witchhunt.
  • Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    MP compliments single fellow MP on her appearance and asks her out shock.

    Absurd!
    Repeatedly, over a period of 20 years, with no hint of response

    Not sure whether that's harassment or stalking but either way it's despicable
    In the context of recent allegations receiving some unwanted love letters from a rather delusional older man is not really in the same league
    Who claimed it is ?
    Clearly those who suspended him
    Not unless they were precogs....
    I believe that has been suggested as the solution to this whole problem.
    It is just a little bit extraordinary to me how many of those who huff and puff about how ridiculous these cases are don't seem to have bothered to have first ascertained the basic facts in question.
    I believe that the accusations should be kept confidential in detail and the person accused should be told the full extent of the accusations before anything is put in the public domain.

    We have already had a sad and unnecessary death here in North Wales and it should be a warning to all sides on how serious misunderstandings may become a real tragedy
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842

    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    MP compliments single fellow MP on her appearance and asks her out shock.

    Absurd!
    Repeatedly, over a period of 20 years, with no hint of response

    Not sure whether that's harassment or stalking but either way it's despicable
    In the context of recent allegations receiving some unwanted love letters from a rather delusional older man is not really in the same league
    Who claimed it is ?
    Clearly those who suspended him
    Not unless they were precogs....
    I believe that has been suggested as the solution to this whole problem.
    It is just a little bit extraordinary to me how many of those who huff and puff about how ridiculous these cases are don't seem to have bothered to have first ascertained the basic facts in question.
    I believe that the accusations should be kept confidential in detail and the person accused should be told the full extent of the accusations before anything is put in the public domain.

    We have already had a sad and unnecessary death here in North Wales and it should be a warning to all sides on how serious misunderstandings may become a real tragedy
    I agree.

    The potent nature of abuse allegations make it important to treat both the complainant and the alleged perpetrator with the same duty of care until such time as guilt is established or not.

    I am not in any way saying that any of the current allegations are in any way fraudulent - but careers can be ended now just by allegations on Twitter. In no way does that represent justice for anyone.

    We need a radical rethink about the whole issue of anonymity in such cases. I appreciate that naming alleged abusers can encourage others to come forward - but that would surely be stronger if a conviction had already been secured and other victims could see that the justice system can work.

    At the moment, things are being said that cannot be unsaid. Mud will stick. For many, very justifiably. For others - completely unfairly.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972
    Some good news for Theresa May. According to Forbes she is the second most powerful woman in the world, behind Angela Merkel but just ahead of Melinda Gates.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/photos/meet-the-9-women-who-have-the-most-money-influence-and-power-in-the-world-right-now/ss-AAuwIyB?ocid=spartanntp
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,216

    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    MP compliments single fellow MP on her appearance and asks her out shock.

    Absurd!
    Repeatedly, over a period of 20 years, with no hint of response

    Not sure whether that's harassment or stalking but either way it's despicable
    In the context of recent allegations receiving some unwanted love letters from a rather delusional older man is not really in the same league
    Who claimed it is ?
    Clearly those who suspended him
    Not unless they were precogs....
    I believe that has been suggested as the solution to this whole problem.
    It is just a little bit extraordinary to me how many of those who huff and puff about how ridiculous these cases are don't seem to have bothered to have first ascertained the basic facts in question.
    I assume you are referring to those who are doing the suspending. Given that some of the highest profile cases have seen people suspended with no indications of why and even they have not been informed and that some of the cases are turning out to be little short of ludicrous this has all the hallmarks of a witchhunt.
    No - I was actually referring to the ignorance you displayed just a few posts back.

    There is absolutely room to debate the manner of investigations - but in this case the allegations were quite public.
    Which cases do you have in mind as being "little short of ludicrous" ?
    (The catastrophically handled Welsh case can hardly be described in that way.)
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    MP compliments single fellow MP on her appearance and asks her out shock.

    Absurd!
    Repeatedly, over a period of 20 years, with no hint of response

    Not sure whether that's harassment or stalking but either way it's despicable
    In the context of recent allegations receiving some unwanted love letters from a rather delusional older man is not really in the same league
    Who claimed it is ?
    Clearly those who suspended him
    Not unless they were precogs....
    I believe that has been suggested as the solution to this whole problem.
    It is just a little bit extraordinary to me how many of those who huff and puff about how ridiculous these cases are don't seem to have bothered to have first ascertained the basic facts in question.
    Er ... I am not quite sure what you are talking about here.

    In the case of Carl Sergeant, the whole point is that the “basic facts in question” do not appear to be available to anyone other than Carwyn Jones and a few others.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,769
    I think the Hopkins letters are the clumsy, naive work of an old romantic fool.

    Just one question - isn't he err married though :) ?

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,216

    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    MP compliments single fellow MP on her appearance and asks her out shock.

    Absurd!
    Repeatedly, over a period of 20 years, with no hint of response

    Not sure whether that's harassment or stalking but either way it's despicable
    In the context of recent allegations receiving some unwanted love letters from a rather delusional older man is not really in the same league
    Who claimed it is ?
    Clearly those who suspended him
    Not unless they were precogs....
    I believe that has been suggested as the solution to this whole problem.
    It is just a little bit extraordinary to me how many of those who huff and puff about how ridiculous these cases are don't seem to have bothered to have first ascertained the basic facts in question.
    I believe that the accusations should be kept confidential in detail and the person accused should be told the full extent of the accusations before anything is put in the public domain.

    We have already had a sad and unnecessary death here in North Wales and it should be a warning to all sides on how serious misunderstandings may become a real tragedy
    In an ideal world that would be true - but it is precisely because, up until the Weinstein affair, accusations kept confidential were frequently ignored, that women have been making them public. It's a mess, and that the HoC has no independent complaints procedure is part of that mess.

    I wouldn't seek for a moment to defend how the Welsh case was handled by those in authority - that was unforgivable - but it is not how most of these cases have been handled.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Pulpstar said:

    I think the Hopkins letters are the clumsy, naive work of an old romantic fool.

    Just one question - isn't he err married though :) ?

    What is the problem?

    Surely Mrs Pulpstar permits Pulpstar to go out to lunch with females -- even if they are “attractive, intelligent and charming”.
  • Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    MP compliments single fellow MP on her appearance and asks her out shock.

    Absurd!
    Repeatedly, over a period of 20 years, with no hint of response

    Not sure whether that's harassment or stalking but either way it's despicable
    In the context of recent allegations receiving some unwanted love letters from a rather delusional older man is not really in the same league
    Who claimed it is ?
    Clearly those who suspended him
    Not unless they were precogs....
    I believe that has been suggested as the solution to this whole problem.
    It is just a little bit extraordinary to me how many of those who huff and puff about how ridiculous these cases are don't seem to have bothered to have first ascertained the basic facts in question.
    I believe that the accusations should be kept confidential in detail and the person accused should be told the full extent of the accusations before anything is put in the public domain.

    We have already had a sad and unnecessary death here in North Wales and it should be a warning to all sides on how serious misunderstandings may become a real tragedy
    In an ideal world that would be true - but it is precisely because, up until the Weinstein affair, accusations kept confidential were frequently ignored, that women have been making them public. It's a mess, and that the HoC has no independent complaints procedure is part of that mess.

    I wouldn't seek for a moment to defend how the Welsh case was handled by those in authority - that was unforgivable - but it is not how most of these cases have been handled.
    Charlie Elphicke is still in tbe dark
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842
    edited November 2017
    Nigelb said:



    In an ideal world that would be true - but it is precisely because, up until the Weinstein affair, accusations kept confidential were frequently ignored, that women have been making them public. It's a mess, and that the HoC has no independent complaints procedure is part of that mess.

    I wouldn't seek for a moment to defend how the Welsh case was handled by those in authority - that was unforgivable - but it is not how most of these cases have been handled.

    The answer is to create a system whereby complainants feel safe to make allegations as soon after events as possible and that investigations are carried out very swiftly. That way we don't end up with a long list of historical cases needing to be brought into the light.

    Twitter or news conferences are not the place to make serious allegations - they should be made to the authorities first. Social media is not the place to report a rape, it really isn't.

    Yes there is a lot of frustration at past failings - but now that a worldwide conversation has been started, the focus should be on getting the allegations properly logged and, as far as possible with historical cases, thoroughly investigated. Trial by media doesn't achieve justice. It never has and it never will. And we are perilously close to that now.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    MP compliments single fellow MP on her appearance and asks her out shock.

    Absurd!
    Repeatedly, over a period of 20 years, with no hint of response

    Not sure whether that's harassment or stalking but either way it's despicable
    In the context of recent allegations receiving some unwanted love letters from a rather delusional older man is not really in the same league
    Who claimed it is ?
    Clearly those who suspended him
    Not unless they were precogs....
    I believe that has been suggested as the solution to this whole problem.
    It is just a little bit extraordinary to me how many of those who huff and puff about how ridiculous these cases are don't seem to have bothered to have first ascertained the basic facts in question.
    I believe that the accusations should be kept confidential in detail and the person accused should be told the full extent of the accusations before anything is put in the public domain.

    We have already had a sad and unnecessary death here in North Wales and it should be a warning to all sides on how serious misunderstandings may become a real tragedy
    In an ideal world that would be true - but it is precisely because, up until the Weinstein affair, accusations kept confidential were frequently ignored, that women have been making them public. It's a mess, and that the HoC has no independent complaints procedure is part of that mess.

    I wouldn't seek for a moment to defend how the Welsh case was handled by those in authority - that was unforgivable - but it is not how most of these cases have been handled.
    The only point at which I agree is that the HoC should of course have an independent Ombudsman to investigate these matters.

    To equate the Weinstein affair -- truly industrial scale sexual harassment, assault and allegedly criminal activity over a period of 20 years while collaborators and cronies stayed silent -- with anything we have so far heard from the HoC seems to betray a complete lack of proportion.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    And finally, I’d say the publication of those cards by Kerry McCarthy seems to me to be an act of poisonous cruelty that far outweighs anything Kelvin is alleged to have done.

    Kelvin comes across as misguided and sad.

    But I’d rather be misguided and sad, than cruel.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,216

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    MP compliments single fellow MP on her appearance and asks her out shock.

    Absurd!
    Repeatedly, over a period of 20 years, with no hint of response

    Not sure whether that's harassment or stalking but either way it's despicable
    In the context of recent allegations receiving some unwanted love letters from a rather delusional older man is not really in the same league
    Who claimed it is ?
    Clearly those who suspended him
    Not unless they were precogs....
    I believe that has been suggested as the solution to this whole problem.
    It is just a little bit extraordinary to me how many of those who huff and puff about how ridiculous these cases are don't seem to have bothered to have first ascertained the basic facts in question.
    I believe that the accusations should be kept confidential in detail and the person accused should be told the full extent of the accusations before anything is put in the public domain.

    We have already had a sad and unnecessary death here in North Wales and it should be a warning to all sides on how serious misunderstandings may become a real tragedy
    In an ideal world that would be true - but it is precisely because, up until the Weinstein affair, accusations kept confidential were frequently ignored, that women have been making them public. It's a mess, and that the HoC has no independent complaints procedure is part of that mess.

    I wouldn't seek for a moment to defend how the Welsh case was handled by those in authority - that was unforgivable - but it is not how most of these cases have been handled.
    Charlie Elphicke is still in tbe dark
    Yes - and that is another case very badly (though nowhere near as egregiously) handled.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,216

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    MP compliments single fellow MP on her appearance and asks her out shock.

    Absurd!
    Repeatedly, over a period of 20 years, with no hint of response

    Not sure whether that's harassment or stalking but either way it's despicable
    In the context of recent allegations receiving some unwanted love letters from a rather delusional older man is not really in the same league
    Who claimed it is ?
    Clearly those who suspended him
    Not unless they were precogs....
    I believe that has been suggested as the solution to this whole problem.
    It is just a little bit extraordinary to me how many of those who huff and puff about how ridiculous these cases are don't seem to have bothered to have first ascertained the basic facts in question.
    I believe that the accusations should be kept confidential in detail and the person accused should be told the full extent of the accusations before anything is put in the public domain.

    We have already had a sad and unnecessary death here in North Wales and it should be a warning to all sides on how serious misunderstandings may become a real tragedy
    In an ideal world that would be true - but it is precisely because, up until the Weinstein affair, accusations kept confidential were frequently ignored, that women have been making them public. It's a mess, and that the HoC has no independent complaints procedure is part of that mess.

    I wouldn't seek for a moment to defend how the Welsh case was handled by those in authority - that was unforgivable - but it is not how most of these cases have been handled.
    The only point at which I agree is that the HoC should of course have an independent Ombudsman to investigate these matters.

    To equate the Weinstein affair -- truly industrial scale sexual harassment, assault and allegedly criminal activity over a period of 20 years while collaborators and cronies stayed silent -- with anything we have so far heard from the HoC seems to betray a complete lack of proportion.
    That is not what I said.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    MP compliments single fellow MP on her appearance and asks her out shock.

    Absurd!
    Repeatedly, over a period of 20 years, with no hint of response

    Not sure whether that's harassment or stalking but either way it's despicable
    In the context of recent allegations receiving some unwanted love letters from a rather delusional older man is not really in the same league
    Who claimed it is ?
    Clearly those who suspended him
    Not unless they were precogs....
    I believe that has been suggested as the solution to this whole problem.
    It is just a little bit extraordinary to me how many of those who huff and puff about how ridiculous these cases are don't seem to have bothered to have first ascertained the basic facts in question.
    I believe that the accusations should be kept confidential in detail and the person accused should be told the full extent of the accusations before anything is put in the public domain.

    We have already had a sad and unnecessary death here in North Wales and it should be a warning to all sides on how serious misunderstandings may become a real tragedy
    In an ideal world that would be true - but it is precisely because, up until the Weinstein affair, accusations kept confidential were frequently ignored, that women have been making them public. It's a mess, and that the HoC has no independent complaints procedure is part of that mess.

    I wouldn't seek for a moment to defend how the Welsh case was handled by those in authority - that was unforgivable - but it is not how most of these cases have been handled.
    The only point at which I agree is that the HoC should of course have an independent Ombudsman to investigate these matters.

    To equate the Weinstein affair -- truly industrial scale sexual harassment, assault and allegedly criminal activity over a period of 20 years while collaborators and cronies stayed silent -- with anything we have so far heard from the HoC seems to betray a complete lack of proportion.
    That is not what I said.
    You made a direct comparison with the Weinstein case to justify actions taken against MPs.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    And finally, I’d say the publication of those cards by Kerry McCarthy seems to me to be an act of poisonous cruelty that far outweighs anything Kelvin is alleged to have done.

    Kelvin comes across as misguided and sad.

    But I’d rather be misguided and sad, than cruel.

    Yeah. Women should just have to put up with lecherous old goats in the workplace.
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    MP compliments single fellow MP on her appearance and asks her out shock.

    Absurd!
    Repeatedly, over a period of 20 years, with no hint of response

    Not sure whether that's harassment or stalking but either way it's despicable
    In the context of recent allegations receiving some unwanted love letters from a rather delusional older man is not really in the same league
    Who claimed it is ?
    Clearly those who suspended him
    Not unless they were precogs....
    I believe that has been suggested as the solution to this whole problem.
    It is just a little bit extraordinary to me how many of those who huff and puff about how ridiculous these cases are don't seem to have bothered to have first ascertained the basic facts in question.
    I believe that the accusations should be kept confidential in detail and the person accused should be told the full extent of the accusations before anything is put in the public domain.

    We have already had a sad and unnecessary death here in North Wales and it should be a warning to all sides on how serious misunderstandings may become a real tragedy
    In an ideal world that would be true - but it is precisely because, up until the Weinstein affair, accusations kept confidential were frequently ignored, that women have been making them public. It's a mess, and that the HoC has no independent complaints procedure is part of that mess.

    I wouldn't seek for a moment to defend how the Welsh case was handled by those in authority - that was unforgivable - but it is not how most of these cases have been handled.
    The only point at which I agree is that the HoC should of course have an independent Ombudsman to investigate these matters.

    To equate the Weinstein affair -- truly industrial scale sexual harassment, assault and allegedly criminal activity over a period of 20 years while collaborators and cronies stayed silent -- with anything we have so far heard from the HoC seems to betray a complete lack of proportion.
    That is not what I said.
    You made a direct comparison with the Weinstein case to justify actions taken against MPs.
    What? No he didn't.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    And finally, I’d say the publication of those cards by Kerry McCarthy seems to me to be an act of poisonous cruelty that far outweighs anything Kelvin is alleged to have done.

    Kelvin comes across as misguided and sad.

    But I’d rather be misguided and sad, than cruel.

    Yeah. Women should just have to put up with lecherous old goats in the workplace.
    There was no need for Kerry to make the cards public.

    She could have requested Kelvin to stop as the cards were making her uncomfortable. Did she?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,216

    Nigelb said:



    In an ideal world that would be true - but it is precisely because, up until the Weinstein affair, accusations kept confidential were frequently ignored, that women have been making them public. It's a mess, and that the HoC has no independent complaints procedure is part of that mess.

    I wouldn't seek for a moment to defend how the Welsh case was handled by those in authority - that was unforgivable - but it is not how most of these cases have been handled.

    The answer is to create a system whereby complainants feel safe to make allegations as soon after events as possible and that investigations are carried out very swiftly. That way we don't end up with a long list of historical cases needing to be brought into the light.

    Twitter or news conferences are not the place to make serious allegations - they should be made to the authorities first. Social media is not the place to report a rape, it really isn't.

    Yes there is a lot of frustration at past failings - but now that a worldwide conversation has been started, the focus should be on getting the allegations properly logged and, as far as possible with historical cases, thoroughly investigated. Trial by media doesn't achieve justice. It never has and it never will. And we are perilously close to that now.
    I don't really disagree with any of that - but we don't yet have such a system (and indeed Cameron's efforts to institute one for Parliament only a few years back were rebuffed by his own party and by Labour).
    As I said below, it's a mess, but I don't think it fair to blame women, whose complaints up until now were ignored, for speaking out. Or to dismiss them as largely ridiculous.

  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,625
    HYUFD said:

    Some good news for Theresa May. According to Forbes she is the second most powerful woman in the world, behind Angela Merkel but just ahead of Melinda Gates.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/photos/meet-the-9-women-who-have-the-most-money-influence-and-power-in-the-world-right-now/ss-AAuwIyB?ocid=spartanntp

    Well done TM

    Powerful, strong, stable wonderful
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "US football star Hope Solo accuses Sepp Blatter of sexual assault

    Hope Solo says the former FIFA president grabbed her backside, but a spokesman for Blatter says the claim is "ridiculous"."

    https://news.sky.com/story/us-football-star-hope-solo-accuses-sepp-blatter-of-sexual-assault-11121706
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,576
    HYUFD said:

    Some good news for Theresa May. According to Forbes she is the second most powerful woman in the world, behind Angela Merkel but just ahead of Melinda Gates.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/photos/meet-the-9-women-who-have-the-most-money-influence-and-power-in-the-world-right-now/ss-AAuwIyB?ocid=spartanntp

    Sounds like a questionable methodology if that is the conclusion.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,625

    HYUFD said:

    Some good news for Theresa May. According to Forbes she is the second most powerful woman in the world, behind Angela Merkel but just ahead of Melinda Gates.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/photos/meet-the-9-women-who-have-the-most-money-influence-and-power-in-the-world-right-now/ss-AAuwIyB?ocid=spartanntp

    Well done TM

    Powerful, strong, stable wonderful
    Is that enough please keep her in place until GE 2022
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited November 2017



    What? No he didn't.


    “... but it is precisely because, up until the Weinstein affair, accusations kept confidential were frequently ignored, that women have been making them public ...”

    What is the relevance of the Weinstein affair then in the above statement?

    I am of the opinion that MPs have not emerged for this any differently than 650 professors or middle managers or lawyers.

    The only accusation that seems to me to warrant comparison with Weinstein is the Bex Bailey affair, where indeed we have heard an allegation of rape and then the allegation of a cover-up.

    Largely, there seems to me be an undercurrent of the settling of political scores in what has happened (in both the Tory and Labour parties)

    That is partly why I am so suspicious of the Carl Sergeant affair.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,576
    AndyJS said:

    "US football star Hope Solo accuses Sepp Blatter of sexual assault

    Hope Solo says the former FIFA president grabbed her backside, but a spokesman for Blatter says the claim is "ridiculous"."

    https://news.sky.com/story/us-football-star-hope-solo-accuses-sepp-blatter-of-sexual-assault-11121706

    His past remarks about improving popularity of the women's game by having the players wear tighter shorts will probably not aid perceptions of his protestations of innocence. Being, allegedly, massively corrupt probably doesn't help either.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    HYUFD said:

    Some good news for Theresa May. According to Forbes she is the second most powerful woman in the world, behind Angela Merkel but just ahead of Melinda Gates.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/photos/meet-the-9-women-who-have-the-most-money-influence-and-power-in-the-world-right-now/ss-AAuwIyB?ocid=spartanntp

    Well done TM

    Powerful, strong, stable wonderful
    Is that enough please keep her in place until GE 2022
    I sincerely hope TM is PM or LotCP until the next GE
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,531
    edited November 2017
    AndyJS said:

    "US football star Hope Solo accuses Sepp Blatter of sexual assault

    Hope Solo says the former FIFA president grabbed her backside, but a spokesman for Blatter says the claim is "ridiculous"."

    https://news.sky.com/story/us-football-star-hope-solo-accuses-sepp-blatter-of-sexual-assault-11121706

    Hope Solo: "Greedo Blatter shot first"
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,216
    @YBarddCwsc,
    I really don't see how you understood my comment as "a direct comparison", but to be clear, it was not.

    The Weinstein affair represents watershed because the nature of his alleged offences was so extreme, they were so numerous, and one or more of them was known of by so many people. It was thus a graphic illustration of how sexual harassment or worse is covered up or dismissed.
    That the example of his alleged victims speaking out should encourage others to do the same does not mean that everyone speaking out is has a grievance of equal measure - indeed the very wide range of subsequent allegations, from rape to an unwelcome hand on the knee, has been widely debated here.
    Every case is different; some are crimes; some do not rise to that level, and of those so,e a more serious, some less so.

    I hope that makes my comment more clear for you.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    And finally, I’d say the publication of those cards by Kerry McCarthy seems to me to be an act of poisonous cruelty that far outweighs anything Kelvin is alleged to have done.

    Kelvin comes across as misguided and sad.

    But I’d rather be misguided and sad, than cruel.

    Yeah. Women should just have to put up with lecherous old goats in the workplace.
    There was no need for Kerry to make the cards public.

    She could have requested Kelvin to stop as the cards were making her uncomfortable. Did she?
    She made them public to corroborate the complaint by the young Labour activist.

  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842

    And finally, I’d say the publication of those cards by Kerry McCarthy seems to me to be an act of poisonous cruelty that far outweighs anything Kelvin is alleged to have done.

    Kelvin comes across as misguided and sad.

    But I’d rather be misguided and sad, than cruel.

    Yeah. Women should just have to put up with lecherous old goats in the workplace.
    There was no need for Kerry to make the cards public.

    She could have requested Kelvin to stop as the cards were making her uncomfortable. Did she?
    She made them public to corroborate the complaint by the young Labour activist.

    But she could have still done that without making anything public. I am sure the investigation would have still considered them if they hadn't been published in the press.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972
    edited November 2017
    surbiton said:

    HYUFD said:

    Some good news for Theresa May. According to Forbes she is the second most powerful woman in the world, behind Angela Merkel but just ahead of Melinda Gates.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/photos/meet-the-9-women-who-have-the-most-money-influence-and-power-in-the-world-right-now/ss-AAuwIyB?ocid=spartanntp

    Well done TM

    Powerful, strong, stable wonderful
    Is that enough please keep her in place until GE 2022
    I sincerely hope TM is PM or LotCP until the next GE
    On today's Yougov poll she still leads Corbyn as preferred PM despite everything
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    And finally, I’d say the publication of those cards by Kerry McCarthy seems to me to be an act of poisonous cruelty that far outweighs anything Kelvin is alleged to have done.

    Kelvin comes across as misguided and sad.

    But I’d rather be misguided and sad, than cruel.

    Yeah. Women should just have to put up with lecherous old goats in the workplace.
    There was no need for Kerry to make the cards public.

    She could have requested Kelvin to stop as the cards were making her uncomfortable. Did she?
    She made them public to corroborate the complaint by the young Labour activist.

    But she could have still done that without making anything public. I am sure the investigation would have still considered them if they hadn't been published in the press.

    There are people objecting that the accusations against Sargeant were not made public, who bear a striking resemblance to those complaining that these accusations were made public.

  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited November 2017
    Nigelb said:

    @YBarddCwsc,
    I really don't see how you understood my comment as "a direct comparison", but to be clear, it was not.

    The Weinstein affair represents watershed because the nature of his alleged offences was so extreme, they were so numerous, and one or more of them was known of by so many people. It was thus a graphic illustration of how sexual harassment or worse is covered up or dismissed.
    That the example of his alleged victims speaking out should encourage others to do the same does not mean that everyone speaking out is has a grievance of equal measure - indeed the very wide range of subsequent allegations, from rape to an unwelcome hand on the knee, has been widely debated here.
    Every case is different; some are crimes; some do not rise to that level, and of those so,e a more serious, some less so.

    I hope that makes my comment more clear for you.

    A man killed himself. He leaves behind two children and a wife.

    He is the only victim of this business. Everyones lives to talk and laugh another day.

    He died without knowing who had accused him, and of what he had been accused. He died without being given an opportunity to clear his name.

    He died because of a witch hunt. There were so many people with lighted logs ready for the burning.

    The witch hunt has been fanned by the media (probably to distract attention from the Weinsteins in their midst) and the politicians themselves (who are fighting Brexit by proxy).

    If you are interested in Weinsteins, go look for them in the entertainment and modelling businesses which have long treated pretty young boys and girls as easy meat.

    Or, to give another uncomfortable parallel, go look for them among the working-class girls in northern towns whose systematic abuse and rape were covered up by councils and the police for years.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    MP compliments single fellow MP on her appearance and asks her out shock.

    Absurd!
    Repeatedly, over a period of 20 years, with no hint of response

    Not sure whether that's harassment or stalking but either way it's despicable
    In the context of recent allegations receiving some unwanted love letters from a rather delusional older man is not really in the same league
    Who claimed it is ?
    Clearly those who suspended him
    Not unless they were precogs....
    I believe that has been suggested as the solution to this whole problem.
    It is just a little bit extraordinary to me how many of those who huff and puff about how ridiculous these cases are don't seem to have bothered to have first ascertained the basic facts in question.
    I believe that the accusations should be kept confidential in detail and the person accused should be told the full extent of the accusations before anything is put in the public domain.

    We have already had a sad and unnecessary death here in North Wales and it should be a warning to all sides on how serious misunderstandings may become a real tragedy
    In an ideal world that would be true - but it is precisely because, up until the Weinstein affair, accusations kept confidential were frequently ignored, that women have been making them public. It's a mess, and that the HoC has no independent complaints procedure is part of that mess.

    I wouldn't seek for a moment to defend how the Welsh case was handled by those in authority - that was unforgivable - but it is not how most of these cases have been handled.
    Charlie Elphicke is still in tbe dark
    According to him.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    AndyJS said:

    Why does the by-election review thread stay as the first thread for such a short time?

    Did the Tories get hammered as they usually do ?
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    And finally, I’d say the publication of those cards by Kerry McCarthy seems to me to be an act of poisonous cruelty that far outweighs anything Kelvin is alleged to have done.

    Kelvin comes across as misguided and sad.

    But I’d rather be misguided and sad, than cruel.

    Yeah. Women should just have to put up with lecherous old goats in the workplace.
    There was no need for Kerry to make the cards public.

    She could have requested Kelvin to stop as the cards were making her uncomfortable. Did she?
    She made them public to corroborate the complaint by the young Labour activist.

    How exactly do cards inviting Kerry out for lunch sometime corroborate an allegation of sexual assault?
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    HYUFD said:

    surbiton said:

    HYUFD said:

    Some good news for Theresa May. According to Forbes she is the second most powerful woman in the world, behind Angela Merkel but just ahead of Melinda Gates.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/photos/meet-the-9-women-who-have-the-most-money-influence-and-power-in-the-world-right-now/ss-AAuwIyB?ocid=spartanntp

    Well done TM

    Powerful, strong, stable wonderful
    Is that enough please keep her in place until GE 2022
    I sincerely hope TM is PM or LotCP until the next GE
    On today's Yougov poll she still leads Corbyn as preferred PM despite everything
    Callaghan led Thatcher by a wide margin. Don't PM's always lead ? After all, they are in No.10 with all its advantages.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972
    surbiton said:

    HYUFD said:

    surbiton said:

    HYUFD said:

    Some good news for Theresa May. According to Forbes she is the second most powerful woman in the world, behind Angela Merkel but just ahead of Melinda Gates.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/photos/meet-the-9-women-who-have-the-most-money-influence-and-power-in-the-world-right-now/ss-AAuwIyB?ocid=spartanntp

    Well done TM

    Powerful, strong, stable wonderful
    Is that enough please keep her in place until GE 2022
    I sincerely hope TM is PM or LotCP until the next GE
    On today's Yougov poll she still leads Corbyn as preferred PM despite everything
    Callaghan led Thatcher by a wide margin. Don't PM's always lead ? After all, they are in No.10 with all its advantages.
    Had Callaghan called an election in 1978 Labour might well have been the largest party.

    PM's don't always lead no, Cameron led Brown, Blair led Major etc.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Nigelb said:

    Suggestion that the Saudis are detaining Lebanon's PM against his will:
    http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/11/10/saudi_arabia_accused_of_detaining_prime_minister_of_lebanon_as_fears_of.html

    The Middle East conspiracy stories I'm reading don't seem all that far fetched...

    The Saudis want a war with Iran to distract from an imploding monarchist/dictatorial government after losing out so badly to Iran in Iraq and Syria after their sponsored underlings, the IS, were sent packing.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    edited November 2017
    Telegraph says Dildo Hammond is having a “green budget” and set to hammer those with diesel cars who were encouraged to buy them by previous so called “green” budgets.


    “A number of options are under consideration, including changes to vehicle excise duty which could hit drivers who already own diesel cars instead of those who buy new models, campaigners have been told.“


    God he’s useless. Stick stick stick and no carrot.



  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    HYUFD said:

    surbiton said:

    HYUFD said:

    surbiton said:

    HYUFD said:

    Some good news for Theresa May. According to Forbes she is the second most powerful woman in the world, behind Angela Merkel but just ahead of Melinda Gates.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/photos/meet-the-9-women-who-have-the-most-money-influence-and-power-in-the-world-right-now/ss-AAuwIyB?ocid=spartanntp

    Well done TM

    Powerful, strong, stable wonderful
    Is that enough please keep her in place until GE 2022
    I sincerely hope TM is PM or LotCP until the next GE
    On today's Yougov poll she still leads Corbyn as preferred PM despite everything
    Callaghan led Thatcher by a wide margin. Don't PM's always lead ? After all, they are in No.10 with all its advantages.
    Had Callaghan called an election in 1978 Labour might well have been the largest party.

    PM's don't always lead no, Cameron led Brown, Blair led Major etc.
    The point I was making and from which you, as usual, ducked was that Labour in 1979 was well behind the Tories and , yet, Callaghan led Thatcher comfortably.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    TGOHF said:

    Telegraph says Dildo Hammond is having a “green budget” and set to hammer those with diesel cars who were encouraged to buy them by previous so called “green” budgets.


    “A number of options are under consideration, including changes to vehicle excise duty which could hit drivers who already own diesel cars instead of those who buy new models, campaigners have been told.“


    God he’s useless. Stick stick stick and no carrot.

    Just in time I have moved away from my diesel to a plug-in. So smooth and so eerily quiet.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,972
    edited November 2017
    surbiton said:

    HYUFD said:

    surbiton said:

    HYUFD said:

    surbiton said:

    HYUFD said:

    Some good news for Theresa May. According to Forbes she is the second most powerful woman in the world, behind Angela Merkel but just ahead of Melinda Gates.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/photos/meet-the-9-women-who-have-the-most-money-influence-and-power-in-the-world-right-now/ss-AAuwIyB?ocid=spartanntp

    Well done TM

    Powerful, strong, stable wonderful
    Is that enough please keep her in place until GE 2022
    I sincerely hope TM is PM or LotCP until the next GE
    On today's Yougov poll she still leads Corbyn as preferred PM despite everything
    Callaghan led Thatcher by a wide margin. Don't PM's always lead ? After all, they are in No.10 with all its advantages.
    Had Callaghan called an election in 1978 Labour might well have been the largest party.

    PM's don't always lead no, Cameron led Brown, Blair led Major etc.
    The point I was making and from which you, as usual, ducked was that Labour in 1979 was well behind the Tories and , yet, Callaghan led Thatcher comfortably.
    The Tories in 1979 also won by 7%, Labour is today ahead by 3%.

    Plus of course Callaghan still did better against Thatcher than either Foot or Kinnock did so replacing him would not have made any difference for Labour just as replacing May is unlikely to make much difference for the Tories.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    And finally, I’d say the publication of those cards by Kerry McCarthy seems to me to be an act of poisonous cruelty that far outweighs anything Kelvin is alleged to have done.

    Kelvin comes across as misguided and sad.

    But I’d rather be misguided and sad, than cruel.

    Yeah. Women should just have to put up with lecherous old goats in the workplace.
    There was no need for Kerry to make the cards public.

    She could have requested Kelvin to stop as the cards were making her uncomfortable. Did she?
    She made them public to corroborate the complaint by the young Labour activist.

    How exactly do cards inviting Kerry out for lunch sometime corroborate an allegation of sexual assault?
    They help substantiate the behaviour.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    And finally, I’d say the publication of those cards by Kerry McCarthy seems to me to be an act of poisonous cruelty that far outweighs anything Kelvin is alleged to have done.

    Kelvin comes across as misguided and sad.

    But I’d rather be misguided and sad, than cruel.

    Yeah. Women should just have to put up with lecherous old goats in the workplace.
    There was no need for Kerry to make the cards public.

    She could have requested Kelvin to stop as the cards were making her uncomfortable. Did she?
    She made them public to corroborate the complaint by the young Labour activist.

    How exactly do cards inviting Kerry out for lunch sometime corroborate an allegation of sexual assault?
    They help substantiate the behaviour.
    Kelvin’s obviously a sex maniac.

    It is good to know that nothing escapes the eye of the WitchFinder General.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    surbiton said:

    AndyJS said:

    Why does the by-election review thread stay as the first thread for such a short time?

    Did the Tories get hammered as they usually do ?
    Not quite as bad for them as usual. They held seats in Wandsworth and High Peak.
  • TGOHF said:

    Telegraph says Dildo Hammond is having a “green budget” and set to hammer those with diesel cars who were encouraged to buy them by previous so called “green” budgets.


    “A number of options are under consideration, including changes to vehicle excise duty which could hit drivers who already own diesel cars instead of those who buy new models, campaigners have been told.“


    God he’s useless. Stick stick stick and no carrot.



    The British had a serious debt problem, then their voters decided to flounce out of the trade agreement that underpinned their entire economy. They can't afford carrots.
  • Useful perspective:

    When the result of the referendum on membership in the EU was announced in the UK, many commentators immediately announced that it had been delivered by the ‘left-behind’ white working class. The equivalent constituency in the US was subsequently argued to have secured Trump the presidency. Yet in both places it has been demonstrated that the white working class vote was less significant than that of the white middle class.


    http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2017/11/10/why-are-the-white-working-classes-still-being-held-responsible-for-brexit-and-trump/
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,145

    And finally, I’d say the publication of those cards by Kerry McCarthy seems to me to be an act of poisonous cruelty that far outweighs anything Kelvin is alleged to have done.

    Kelvin comes across as misguided and sad.

    But I’d rather be misguided and sad, than cruel.

    Yeah. Women should just have to put up with lecherous old goats in the workplace.
    There was no need for Kerry to make the cards public.

    She could have requested Kelvin to stop as the cards were making her uncomfortable. Did she?
    She made them public to corroborate the complaint by the young Labour activist.

    Except they don't.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,145

    And finally, I’d say the publication of those cards by Kerry McCarthy seems to me to be an act of poisonous cruelty that far outweighs anything Kelvin is alleged to have done.

    Kelvin comes across as misguided and sad.

    But I’d rather be misguided and sad, than cruel.

    Yeah. Women should just have to put up with lecherous old goats in the workplace.
    There was no need for Kerry to make the cards public.

    She could have requested Kelvin to stop as the cards were making her uncomfortable. Did she?
    She made them public to corroborate the complaint by the young Labour activist.

    But she could have still done that without making anything public. I am sure the investigation would have still considered them if they hadn't been published in the press.

    There are people objecting that the accusations against Sargeant were not made public, who bear a striking resemblance to those complaining that these accusations were made public.

    I think the problem was the allegations were not made clear to him - similar to the Elphicke case. Surely it is a fundamental right to be told of what one is accused.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,145

    And finally, I’d say the publication of those cards by Kerry McCarthy seems to me to be an act of poisonous cruelty that far outweighs anything Kelvin is alleged to have done.

    Kelvin comes across as misguided and sad.

    But I’d rather be misguided and sad, than cruel.

    Yeah. Women should just have to put up with lecherous old goats in the workplace.
    There was no need for Kerry to make the cards public.

    She could have requested Kelvin to stop as the cards were making her uncomfortable. Did she?
    She made them public to corroborate the complaint by the young Labour activist.

    How exactly do cards inviting Kerry out for lunch sometime corroborate an allegation of sexual assault?
    They help substantiate the behaviour.
    No, they really don't. Get over yourself.
This discussion has been closed.