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A unique feature of the Conservative campaign for the June election was that the branding was completely about Theresa May and you would have been hard pressed on things like the Tory battle bus to see the word Conservative.
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First
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Curse of the new etc, etc.
Seconded.The_Apocalypse said:
Brilliant post.MJW said:As a younger person, I think this is partially true, but there are a number of factors that contribute more widely to mistrust and anger towards the Tories over Brexit. Firstly, there's the obvious cultural abhorrence. There's a sense, that the Tories have actively fostered since the referendum, that Brexit is a culture war being fought by the old against the young. It's fostered by stuff like the "citizens of nowhere" stuff, but by the demeanour, arguments and language used by leading Tory Brexiteers - you've got the likes of Boris, Rees-Mogg, Davis, Redwood, and Hannan everywhere talking about nationalism in a way that's utterly alien to people who grew up in the 1990s and 2000s - and worse, dismissing contrary views as unpatriotic. For many younger metropolitan people, cultural pride in Britain isn't Our Island Story, it's Island Records, and it feels like Brexit is a certain section of the Tory Party imposing their identity while cutting off their more cosmopolitan idea of their country. A common meme joke on Twitter is just the words "Brexit Britain" with a picture of something hideously naff.
snip, snip
Lastly, it's taken away the economic stability argument for avoiding Corbyn. The Tories' best argument against a Labour government making huge promises are stability and caution - Burke's distaste for revolutions if you will. You may not appreciate stern parenting now, but will in the long run. But many younger people see Brexiteers' fanaticism and see a group of people who have decided to bet the family fortune on a trip to Monte Carlo. So, having seen that, aren't going to take any lectures on prudence or the dangers of economic extremism.
You set in train a revolution, you are always going to get a backlash, and it won't necessarily be rational.
I've voted Tory since 2001 (after a dalliance with the Yellow Peril - the mindless optimism of youth
). I guess I was pretty much a cameroon although I never thought of it in those terms. The Tory Party is transmogrifying (or should that be transmoggrifying) into something I do not like. It is regressing into the party of the 90s, and I increasingly find myself wanting no part in it.
If an election were held now, I'd probably abstain or spoil my paper.0 -
If 14% who voted Tory to stop Corbyn when no one thought he would win in 2017, just imagine how many will do so next time when people think he can win.
All the ingredients are falling into place for a terrible shock for the hard Corbynista left at the 10pm exit poll in 20220 -
Good afternoon, everyone.
More telling, and contemptible for the Conservatives, that the economy was also just 5%.0 -
Yeah, that figures. Though more may have done at the time than will admit it now.kle4 said:
No reason both cannot be true, that it is very poorly drafted and people are tabling amendments to take the pissRichard_Tyndall said:
Or alternatively the bill is drafted so badly that it requires that number of amendments to make it coherent. Of course the number of amendments can also be related to the length of the bill.RoyalBlue said:
When the total reaches that number, it's quite clear that the amendments are nothing to do with improving the legislation and all to do with halting Brexit through disengenuous trench warfare.williamglenn said:
It's contemptible.kle4 said:
Quite so. Guido may happily be saying 'it isn't going away' but it will , and people happily sit after having the whip withdrawn, if it even gets that far. Given the lds will hope to have a chance in a by election and Jared will vote with labour regardless, they won't want him to resign even if they do withdraw the whip.rcs1000 said:
He's not going to prison for being a cunt.ydoethur said:
That's the story we were discussing on here yesterday - I have to say I didn't realise it was this recent from what I had read.Sandpit said:This is why Jared O’Mara resigned yesterday. It’s nothing to do with decade-old stories, much more recent than that.
https://order-order.com/2017/10/24/jared-called-ugly-bitch-8-months-ago/
He has of course denied it is as reported.
However, this looks a much more immediate threat to his future than inappropriate online comments. The police were involved, and he must have been asked about it at his selection meeting, surely? If so, what did he say?
The BBC and the Sun have got hold of it, and the complainant has been giving interviews. The optics are pretty bad.
I have to say, if her story is substantiated I think @rcs1000 would lose any bets against a by-election.
I could see the whip being removed, and him being expelled from the Labour Party, and him not attending the HoC.
But I can also see him sitting at home in his pyjamas, drinking a can of Tennants, and venting on various websites. All while collecting £75k p.a.
If not for his own comments on resigning I don't think the possibility woukd have come up much.0 -
On topic: 0
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Easy to forget there was evidence to back up the strong tory position, and thus why they went so heavy on the leader focus. But boy did it not work.0
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@iainmartin1: Those moments mid Corbynista scandal when leadership position not yet clear. And the faithful don't know what to think/say yet...0
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Hubris. And there's no way it will take untill 2022.stevef said:If 14% who voted Tory to stop Corbyn when no one thought he would win in 2017, just imagine how many will do so next time when people think he can win.
All the ingredients are falling into place for a terrible shock for the hard Corbynista left at the 10pm exit poll in 20220 -
It is indeed a bleak prospect before us.Anorak said:Curse of the new etc, etc.
Seconded.The_Apocalypse said:
Brilliant post.MJW said:As a younger person, I think this is partially true, but there are a number of factors that contribute more widely to mistrust and anger towards the Tories over Brexit. Firstly, there's the obvious cultural abhorrence. There's a sense, that the Tories have actively fostered since the referendum, that Brexit is a culture war being fought by the old against the young. It's fostered by stuff like the "citizens of nowhere" stuff, but by the demeanour, arguments and language used by leading Tory Brexiteers - you've got the likes of Boris, Rees-Mogg, Davis, Redwood, and Hannan everywhere talking about nationalism in a way that's utterly alien to people who grew up in the 1990s and 2000s - and worse, dismissing contrary views as unpatriotic. For many younger metropolitan people, cultural pride in Britain isn't Our Island Story, it's Island Records, and it feels like Brexit is a certain section of the Tory Party imposing their identity while cutting off their more cosmopolitan idea of their country. A common meme joke on Twitter is just the words "Brexit Britain" with a picture of something hideously naff.
snip, snip
Lastly, it's taken away the economic stability argument for avoiding Corbyn. The Tories' best argument against a Labour government making huge promises are stability and caution - Burke's distaste for revolutions if you will. You may not appreciate stern parenting now, but will in the long run. But many younger people see Brexiteers' fanaticism and see a group of people who have decided to bet the family fortune on a trip to Monte Carlo. So, having seen that, aren't going to take any lectures on prudence or the dangers of economic extremism.
You set in train a revolution, you are always going to get a backlash, and it won't necessarily be rational.
I've voted Tory since 2001 (after a dalliance with the Yellow Peril - the mindless optimism of youth ). I guess I was pretty much a cameroon although I never thought of it in those terms. The Tory Party is transmogrifying (or should that be transmoggrifying) into something I do not like. It is regressing into the party of the 90s, and I increasingly find myself wanting no part in it.
If an election were held now, I'd probably abstain or spoil my paper.0 -
"My main concern about this polling is that it was being wise after the event"
My main concern with this type of polling is that, if people as versed on polling and statistics as OGH can make the obviously false extrapolation from it that 'Just one in 20 CON voters on June 8th did so because of Theresa May', then how are the less savvy going to make sense of it?0 -
Except the tories have gone backwards since then and will be less motivated, while Corbyn's critics now literally sing his praises. It cannot be assumed all those who voted tory to stop him last time will next time, let alone increase. It could happen, but there's a messy Brexit and a recession to get through, even a ramshackle argument for Change may appeal even more .stevef said:If 14% who voted Tory to stop Corbyn when no one thought he would win in 2017, just imagine how many will do so next time when people think he can win.
All the ingredients are falling into place for a terrible shock for the hard Corbynista left at the 10pm exit poll in 20220 -
Indeed, Mr. kle4. Things remain very unclear.0
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Too busy making jam....Scott_P said:@iainmartin1: Those moments mid Corbynista scandal when leadership position not yet clear. And the faithful don't know what to think/say yet...
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There's little about the current Conservative Party leadership that I like. They're either incompetent, fools, or charlatans - in the case of Boris, all three.Anorak said:Curse of the new etc, etc.
I've voted Tory since 2001 (after a dalliance with the Yellow Peril - the mindless optimism of youth ). I guess I was pretty much a cameroon although I never thought of it in those terms. The Tory Party is transmogrifying (or should that be transmoggrifying) into something I do not like. It is regressing into the party of the 90s, and I increasingly find myself wanting no part in it.
If an election were held now, I'd probably abstain or spoil my paper.
Yes, Labour are worse, but that's not a reason to vote for the Conservatives. And as for the Lib Dems: they're being led into a morass by a silent fossil at a time there are loads of opportunities for them.
So there seems little positive to vote for on a party basis. None of them seem to be able to see past their own narrow world-views to deal with some rather major issues that confront us.
We're f*cked. We're well and truly f*cked.0 -
More significant IMO is that "anti-Theresa May" was only cited as the reason for 4% of Labour voters - in other words, she was not a significant negative motivator for people to vote against the Tories.
That rather goes against the idea that all the Tories have to do is change leader before the next election, and all their problems will be magically solved - there was no great horde of people saying "I'd definitely be voting Conservative if only they had anyone other than May leading them". She turned out not to be the great asset to the Conservative ticket that it looked like she was at the beginning, but she wasn't a huge drag on the ticket either; she was just neutral. They will need to change to a leader who's actually good, rather than just thinking A.N.Other will automatically do the trick.0 -
FPT:-
"I particularly enjoyed his comment saying he won't resign, but if any Tory MP had said the same they should".
He does seem to be a bit thick.
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"...OGH can make the obviously false extrapolation from it that 'Just one in 20 CON voters on June 8th did so because of Theresa May'"MTimT said:"My main concern about this polling is that it was being wise after the event"
My main concern with this type of polling is that, if people as versed on polling and statistics as OGH can make the obviously false extrapolation from it that 'Just one in 20 CON voters on June 8th did so because of Theresa May', then how are the less savvy going to make sense of it?
1 in 20 is 5%, as in the chart above. How is it 'obviously false'?0 -
Mr. Jessop, things do look poor, and they may become worse (particularly if Corbyn wins the next election). On the plus side, the Mexican Grand Prix is only a few days away. Annoyingly, it clashes with Blue Planet II, I think.
*sighs*0 -
Well, it seems the honourable member for Daventry is interrupting the enemy as they're making a mistake:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-417358390 -
You honestly think she had basically no net negative effect? More likely that it was a secondary motivator.Danny565 said:More significant IMO is that "anti-Theresa May" was only cited as the reason for 4% of Labour voters - in other words, she was not a significant negative motivator for people to vote against the Tories.
That rather goes against the idea that all the Tories have to do is change leader before the next election, and all their problems will be magically solved - there was no great horde of people saying "I'd definitely be voting Conservative if only they had anyone other than May leading them". She turned out not to be the great asset to the Conservative ticket that it looked like she was at the beginning, but she wasn't a huge drag on the ticket either; she was just neutral. They will need to change to a leader who's actually good, rather than just thinking A.N.Other will automatically do the trick.0 -
I'm not especially fond of them either, but I know that I definitely do not want to see Labour in office.JosiasJessop said:
There's little about the current Conservative Party leadership that I like. They're either incompetent, fools, or charlatans - in the case of Boris, all three.Anorak said:Curse of the new etc, etc.
I've voted Tory since 2001 (after a dalliance with the Yellow Peril - the mindless optimism of youth ). I guess I was pretty much a cameroon although I never thought of it in those terms. The Tory Party is transmogrifying (or should that be transmoggrifying) into something I do not like. It is regressing into the party of the 90s, and I increasingly find myself wanting no part in it.
If an election were held now, I'd probably abstain or spoil my paper.
Yes, Labour are worse, but that's not a reason to vote for the Conservatives. And as for the Lib Dems: they're being led into a morass by a silent fossil at a time there are loads of opportunities for them.
So there seems little positive to vote for on a party basis. None of them seem to be able to see past their own narrow world-views to deal with some rather major issues that confront us.
We're f*cked. We're well and truly f*cked.0 -
Because people can have more than one reason why they vote the way they did. The statement is missing 'mainly' or some similar word.logical_song said:
"...OGH can make the obviously false extrapolation from it that 'Just one in 20 CON voters on June 8th did so because of Theresa May'"MTimT said:"My main concern about this polling is that it was being wise after the event"
My main concern with this type of polling is that, if people as versed on polling and statistics as OGH can make the obviously false extrapolation from it that 'Just one in 20 CON voters on June 8th did so because of Theresa May', then how are the less savvy going to make sense of it?
1 in 20 is 5%, as in the chart above. How is it 'obviously false'?0 -
Until they know whether he’s safe or getting thrown overboard, they don’t know whether to exonerate him or condemn him - and they’re currently prepeared to do either, in the most colourful language possible.Scott_P said:@iainmartin1: Those moments mid Corbynista scandal when leadership position not yet clear. And the faithful don't know what to think/say yet...
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Its not just a case of 'only 1 in 20 voting Tory because of May'. It is also the fact that many of us who voted Tory did so in spite of May. She was a genuine electoral liability. And for all of us who held our noses and voted Tory because of the current political situation there will be many more who decided they could not support her no matter what the consequences.0
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The last real recession was 2007-8. We would be fortunate indeed to avoid another one before 2022 under the best of circumstances.kle4 said:
Except the tories have gone backwards since then and will be less motivated, while Corbyn's critics now literally sing his praises. It cannot be assumed all those who voted tory to stop him last time will next time, let alone increase. It could happen, but there's a messy Brexit and a recession to get through, even a ramshackle argument for Change may appeal even more .stevef said:If 14% who voted Tory to stop Corbyn when no one thought he would win in 2017, just imagine how many will do so next time when people think he can win.
All the ingredients are falling into place for a terrible shock for the hard Corbynista left at the 10pm exit poll in 2022
With our savings rate at an all time low, and the challenges of Brexit ahead of us, these are not the best of circumstances.0 -
It'll become worse if the Conservatives win. The current leadership is utterly incompetent, and I have no confidence that they'll be able to sort out any issues, yet alone Brexit.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Jessop, things do look poor, and they may become worse (particularly if Corbyn wins the next election). On the plus side, the Mexican Grand Prix is only a few days away. Annoyingly, it clashes with Blue Planet II, I think.
*sighs*
And you know what? Corbyn might be a man worthy of contempt, but I can see why people would vote for his borken politics and sick world view. At least he is offering a false hope, instead of this government's true hopelessness.0 -
Why did only 4% of Labour voters cite voting against her as their main reason, then?Richard_Tyndall said:Its not just a case of 'only 1 in 20 voting Tory because of May'. It is also the fact that many of us who voted Tory did so in spite of May. She was a genuine electoral liability. And for all of us who held our noses and voted Tory because of the current political situation there will be many more who decided they could not support her no matter what the consequences.
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If you're a Brexit counter-revolutionary, of whatever flavour, things can only get better.rcs1000 said:The last real recession was 2007-8. We would be fortunate indeed to avoid another one before 2022 under the best of circumstances.
With our savings rate at an all time low, and the challenges of Brexit ahead of us, these are not the best of circumstances.0 -
Spot on about the LD.JosiasJessop said:Yes, Labour are worse, but that's not a reason to vote for the Conservatives. And as for the Lib Dems: they're being led into a morass by a silent fossil at a time there are loads of opportunities for them.
So there seems little positive to vote for on a party basis. None of them seem to be able to see past their own narrow world-views to deal with some rather major issues that confront us.
We're f*cked. We're well and truly f*cked.0 -
Interesting BBC choice of the big story of the day...anything Brexit is of course like catnip to them. Virtually nobody is going to hear anything about the Labour moron now.JosiasJessop said:Well, it seems the honourable member for Daventry is interrupting the enemy as they're making a mistake:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-417358390 -
Are the 20s still available? It's worth £10 of my money if so?rcs1000 said:
The last real recession was 2007-8. We would be fortunate indeed to avoid another one before 2022 under the best of circumstances.kle4 said:
Except the tories have gone backwards since then and will be less motivated, while Corbyn's critics now literally sing his praises. It cannot be assumed all those who voted tory to stop him last time will next time, let alone increase. It could happen, but there's a messy Brexit and a recession to get through, even a ramshackle argument for Change may appeal even more .stevef said:If 14% who voted Tory to stop Corbyn when no one thought he would win in 2017, just imagine how many will do so next time when people think he can win.
All the ingredients are falling into place for a terrible shock for the hard Corbynista left at the 10pm exit poll in 2022
With our savings rate at an all time low, and the challenges of Brexit ahead of us, these are not the best of circumstances.0 -
Abstention?Danny565 said:
Why did only 4% of Labour voters cite voting against her as their main reason, then?Richard_Tyndall said:Its not just a case of 'only 1 in 20 voting Tory because of May'. It is also the fact that many of us who voted Tory did so in spite of May. She was a genuine electoral liability. And for all of us who held our noses and voted Tory because of the current political situation there will be many more who decided they could not support her no matter what the consequences.
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Yep. As for the Daventry MP's story: it's either a sick thing to do, a silly thing to do, or utterly innocent, depending on his reasons for doing it. Naturally, people wanting to bash the Tories presume it is the former.FrancisUrquhart said:
Interesting BBC choice of the big story of the day...anything Brexit is of course like catnip to them. Virtually nobody is going to hear anything about the Labour moron now.JosiasJessop said:Well, it seems the honourable member for Daventry is interrupting the enemy as they're making a mistake:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41735839
Edit:
I do think it's a little naughty to use the quote 'hit list' in the headline, when that was a quote from a union chair.0 -
Those who did not vote for May did not necessarily vote for Labour either. Many of them may have just decided they could not bring themselves to vote for either party so stayed away.Danny565 said:
Why did only 4% of Labour voters cite voting against her as their main reason, then?Richard_Tyndall said:Its not just a case of 'only 1 in 20 voting Tory because of May'. It is also the fact that many of us who voted Tory did so in spite of May. She was a genuine electoral liability. And for all of us who held our noses and voted Tory because of the current political situation there will be many more who decided they could not support her no matter what the consequences.
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Mr Glenn, I disagree with everything you say, but have to admire your indefatigablity.williamglenn said:
If you're a Brexit counter-revolutionary, of whatever flavour, things can only get better.rcs1000 said:The last real recession was 2007-8. We would be fortunate indeed to avoid another one before 2022 under the best of circumstances.
With our savings rate at an all time low, and the challenges of Brexit ahead of us, these are not the best of circumstances.0 -
That's because you lack imagination. For some the point was there would be pain but it would be better in the long run. That may be proven wrong, but not everyone expected eternal milk and honey.williamglenn said:
If you're a Brexit counter-revolutionary, of whatever flavour, things can only get better.rcs1000 said:The last real recession was 2007-8. We would be fortunate indeed to avoid another one before 2022 under the best of circumstances.
With our savings rate at an all time low, and the challenges of Brexit ahead of us, these are not the best of circumstances.0 -
"The Guardian revealed that Mr Heaton-Harris wrote to university vice-chancellors at the start of this month"JosiasJessop said:
Yep. As for the Daventry MP's story: it's either a sick thing to do, a silly thing to do, or utterly innocent, depending on his reasons for doing it. Naturally, people wanting to bash the Tories presume it is the former.FrancisUrquhart said:
Interesting BBC choice of the big story of the day...anything Brexit is of course like catnip to them. Virtually nobody is going to hear anything about the Labour moron now.JosiasJessop said:Well, it seems the honourable member for Daventry is interrupting the enemy as they're making a mistake:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41735839
Interesting it has taken a month to come out.0 -
What abstentions? Turnout was at a 20-year high.RobD said:
Abstention?Danny565 said:
Why did only 4% of Labour voters cite voting against her as their main reason, then?Richard_Tyndall said:Its not just a case of 'only 1 in 20 voting Tory because of May'. It is also the fact that many of us who voted Tory did so in spite of May. She was a genuine electoral liability. And for all of us who held our noses and voted Tory because of the current political situation there will be many more who decided they could not support her no matter what the consequences.
(I know some people will draw attention to the small dropoff in pensioner turnout, but IMO this is just as likely to be coming from lifelong Labour voters who were appalled at Corbyn's baggage than it was to be lifelong Tory voters.)0 -
On a very convenient day. Maybe Newsnight will run with it as top story...FrancisUrquhart said:
"The Guardian revealed that Mr Heaton-Harris wrote to university vice-chancellors at the start of this month"JosiasJessop said:
Yep. As for the Daventry MP's story: it's either a sick thing to do, a silly thing to do, or utterly innocent, depending on his reasons for doing it. Naturally, people wanting to bash the Tories presume it is the former.FrancisUrquhart said:
Interesting BBC choice of the big story of the day...anything Brexit is of course like catnip to them. Virtually nobody is going to hear anything about the Labour moron now.JosiasJessop said:Well, it seems the honourable member for Daventry is interrupting the enemy as they're making a mistake:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41735839
Interesting it has taken a month to come out.0 -
Quite. I'd have a hard time choosing whether Boris or Corbyn would be worse as British PMs.JosiasJessop said:
It'll become worse if the Conservatives win. The current leadership is utterly incompetent, and I have no confidence that they'll be able to sort out any issues, yet alone Brexit.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Jessop, things do look poor, and they may become worse (particularly if Corbyn wins the next election). On the plus side, the Mexican Grand Prix is only a few days away. Annoyingly, it clashes with Blue Planet II, I think.
*sighs*
And you know what? Corbyn might be a man worthy of contempt, but I can see why people would vote for his borken politics and sick world view. At least he is offering a false hope, instead of this government's true hopelessness.
I'd probably prefer Corbyn, as he would be more likely to be able to keep the UK together, whereas Boris would wind up the Irish Republicans and Scottish Socialists no end.0 -
Churn? A lot of talk about first time voters in the EU ref, they might have voted Tory to see it through.Danny565 said:
What abstentions? Turnout was at a 20-year high.RobD said:
Abstention?Danny565 said:
Why did only 4% of Labour voters cite voting against her as their main reason, then?Richard_Tyndall said:Its not just a case of 'only 1 in 20 voting Tory because of May'. It is also the fact that many of us who voted Tory did so in spite of May. She was a genuine electoral liability. And for all of us who held our noses and voted Tory because of the current political situation there will be many more who decided they could not support her no matter what the consequences.
(I know some people will draw attention to the small dropoff in pensioner turnout, but IMO this is just as likely to be coming from lifelong Labour voters who were appalled at Corbyn's baggage than it was to be lifelong Tory voters.)0 -
Politicians who ultimately are held in the lowest regard are those that offer false hope.JosiasJessop said:
It'll become worse if the Conservatives win. The current leadership is utterly incompetent, and I have no confidence that they'll be able to sort out any issues, yet alone Brexit.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Jessop, things do look poor, and they may become worse (particularly if Corbyn wins the next election). On the plus side, the Mexican Grand Prix is only a few days away. Annoyingly, it clashes with Blue Planet II, I think.
*sighs*
And you know what? Corbyn might be a man worthy of contempt, but I can see why people would vote for his borken politics and sick world view. At least he is offering a false hope, instead of this government's true hopelessness.
Corbyn's 2017 Manifesto was not the new politics. It was a really, really egregious form of the old politics: promise what you like, you know that you will never have to deliver it.... (It was a game the LibDems played to perfection - until the voters called their bluff and put them into the Coalition in 2010. And we know how well that played out....)0 -
'My main concern about this polling is that it was being wise after the event and whether the election outcome itself influenced the responses.'
Yes, there was certainly such a thing as the Cult of Theresa before she fell from grace. I recall a YouTube interview with Peter Hitchens shortly after she had assumed power. The interviewer, a young and gushing May sycophant, was astonished when Hitchens refused to join him and pronounce her as the Second Coming. All rather odd - especially over a politician who never set the world alight throughout her long and plodding career.0 -
I think one can add Anti-Labour+Anti-Corbyn+best of bad bunch+tactical to get to 42% of the Tories who basically dislike the alternative more than they like anything in particular about the Tories. But the figures can be misleading - I met lifelong Tories who particularly disliked Corbyn, but would probably have voted Tory if our leader had been a different JC.0
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I think that choice would depend on the ability of Labour's insane front bench to implement deeply ideological policies. Boris being the lead character in a Trumpesque farce is probably preferable to Corbyn taxing "the rich" at 90% and destroying value in any business not run the by the government. But I'd hope there were enough sane Labour MPs along with the opposition to avoid that.JonathanD said:
Quite. I'd have a hard time choosing whether Boris or Corbyn would be worse as British PMs.JosiasJessop said:
It'll become worse if the Conservatives win. The current leadership is utterly incompetent, and I have no confidence that they'll be able to sort out any issues, yet alone Brexit.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Jessop, things do look poor, and they may become worse (particularly if Corbyn wins the next election). On the plus side, the Mexican Grand Prix is only a few days away. Annoyingly, it clashes with Blue Planet II, I think.
*sighs*
And you know what? Corbyn might be a man worthy of contempt, but I can see why people would vote for his borken politics and sick world view. At least he is offering a false hope, instead of this government's true hopelessness.
I'd probably prefer Corbyn, as he would be more likely to be able to keep the UK together, whereas Boris would wind up the Irish Republicans and Scottish Socialists no end.
It's why the prospect of Momemtum coordinating deselections worries me deeply.0 -
I wonder who has tipped off Guido about Jared O'Mara's views on Danish Pig Farming practices.
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And you know what happens in the long run, now, don't you...kle4 said:
That's because you lack imagination. For some the point was there would be pain but it would be better in the long run. That may be proven wrong, but not everyone expected eternal milk and honey.williamglenn said:
If you're a Brexit counter-revolutionary, of whatever flavour, things can only get better.rcs1000 said:The last real recession was 2007-8. We would be fortunate indeed to avoid another one before 2022 under the best of circumstances.
With our savings rate at an all time low, and the challenges of Brexit ahead of us, these are not the best of circumstances.0 -
"Politicians who ultimately are held in the lowest regard are those that offer false hope."MarqueeMark said:
Politicians who ultimately are held in the lowest regard are those that offer false hope.JosiasJessop said:
It'll become worse if the Conservatives win. The current leadership is utterly incompetent, and I have no confidence that they'll be able to sort out any issues, yet alone Brexit.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Jessop, things do look poor, and they may become worse (particularly if Corbyn wins the next election). On the plus side, the Mexican Grand Prix is only a few days away. Annoyingly, it clashes with Blue Planet II, I think.
*sighs*
And you know what? Corbyn might be a man worthy of contempt, but I can see why people would vote for his borken politics and sick world view. At least he is offering a false hope, instead of this government's true hopelessness.
Corbyn's 2017 Manifesto was not the new politics. It was a really, really egregious form of the old politics: promise what you like, you know that you will never have to deliver it.... (It was a game the LibDems played to perfection - until the voters called their bluff and put them into the Coalition in 2010. And we know how well that played out....)
The operative word is 'ultimately'. The politicians offering 'false hope' (and it looks as though the pro-Brexit crew might be moving to this category) often only pay for it once they've been in power and screwed things up.0 -
I know it was 15 years ago (and well done to the researcher who found this little goldmine of abuse and bigotry) but his behaviour in the past 12 months is now under close scrutiny and he has been found lacking in judgement (at best) and to be a really nasty piece of work (probably closest to the truth)Scott_P said:
Nothing about his difficult upbringing or playing the disability card can get him out of it.
I am sure Mr Staines has a few more choice bits to publish soon enough. Now if one of them is shown to be after the election then things will get even tastier...0 -
I'd agree with this, except it's not the most egregious example of the genre even of the past 18 months, that of course being the Leave campaign's. That's left the Tories with the most immediate problem of delivering on the impossible rather than Labour. As I think Hugo Rifkind wrote on Twitter we may see a succession of weak governments who struggle to deliver on impossible promises that don't really address our underlying economic difficulties anyway.MarqueeMark said:
Politicians who ultimately are held in the lowest regard are those that offer false hope.JosiasJessop said:
It'll become worse if the Conservatives win. The current leadership is utterly incompetent, and I have no confidence that they'll be able to sort out any issues, yet alone Brexit.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Jessop, things do look poor, and they may become worse (particularly if Corbyn wins the next election). On the plus side, the Mexican Grand Prix is only a few days away. Annoyingly, it clashes with Blue Planet II, I think.
*sighs*
And you know what? Corbyn might be a man worthy of contempt, but I can see why people would vote for his borken politics and sick world view. At least he is offering a false hope, instead of this government's true hopelessness.
Corbyn's 2017 Manifesto was not the new politics. It was a really, really egregious form of the old politics: promise what you like, you know that you will never have to deliver it.... (It was a game the LibDems played to perfection - until the voters called their bluff and put them into the Coalition in 2010. And we know how well that played out....)0 -
Paul Staines is clearly part of an ultra-Remain conspiracy to get Nick Clegg back into the House of Commons.0
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Who wouldn't prefer Clegg over this cretin?williamglenn said:Paul Staines is clearly part of an ultra-Remain conspiracy to get Nick Clegg back into the House of Commons.
0 -
When will MPs learn how Staines plays these things. He never fires all his bullets at once.Scott_P said:twitter.com/guidofawkes/status/922826317674016769
0 -
It was a bubble, although to be fair, I don't think that any politician would meet with Peter Hitchens' approval.Stark_Dawning said:'My main concern about this polling is that it was being wise after the event and whether the election outcome itself influenced the responses.'
Yes, there was certainly such a thing as the Cult of Theresa before she fell from grace. I recall a YouTube interview with Peter Hitchens shortly after she had assumed power. The interviewer, a young and gushing May sycophant, was astonished when Hitchens refused to join him and pronounce her as the Second Coming. All rather odd - especially over a politician who never set the world alight throughout her long and plodding career.0 -
FrancisUrquhart said:
When will MPs learn how Staines plays these things. He never fires all his bullets at once.Scott_P said:twitter.com/guidofawkes/status/922826317674016769
If they were smart enough to realise that... then they would be smart enough not to say those comments in the 1st place...
0 -
It's notable that Brexit should be the single most popular reason for voting Conservative.0 -
Well quite, but you would think that Seamus Milne and co would be straight on the blower to fire fight this...oh wait Seamus Milne. Bad Al was expect at nullifying this stuff by fair means and foul.MarkHopkins said:FrancisUrquhart said:
When will MPs learn how Staines plays these things. He never fires all his bullets at once.Scott_P said:twitter.com/guidofawkes/status/922826317674016769
If they were smart enough to realise that... then they would be smart enough not to say those comments in the 1st place...0 -
You underestimate Jezza at your perilstevef said:If 14% who voted Tory to stop Corbyn when no one thought he would win in 2017, just imagine how many will do so next time when people think he can win.
All the ingredients are falling into place for a terrible shock for the hard Corbynista left at the 10pm exit poll in 20220 -
Not to defend the twunt, but I am sure we all have things we said or did when we were 19 that we would prefer not to emerge now.MarkHopkins said:FrancisUrquhart said:
When will MPs learn how Staines plays these things. He never fires all his bullets at once.Scott_P said:twitter.com/guidofawkes/status/922826317674016769
If they were smart enough to realise that... then they would be smart enough not to say those comments in the 1st place...
I am very intrigued as to how a 2002 message board was found and the links established. Quite some detective work!0 -
Not mentioned on the reasons for voting Labour at all, in yesterdays thread.Sean_F said:
It's notable that Brexit should be the single most popular reason for voting Conservative.0 -
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I’m quite worried for TSE if his employer ever finds out about his bizarre taste in voting systems...oxfordsimon said:
Not to defend the twunt, but I am sure we all have things we said or did when we were 19 that we would prefer not to emerge now.MarkHopkins said:FrancisUrquhart said:
When will MPs learn how Staines plays these things. He never fires all his bullets at once.Scott_P said:twitter.com/guidofawkes/status/922826317674016769
If they were smart enough to realise that... then they would be smart enough not to say those comments in the 1st place...
I am very intrigued as to how a 2002 message board was found and the links established. Quite some detective work! 0 -
If you only listened to the media narrative you would think Labour were 10%+ ahead and lead growing.Scott_P said:twitter.com/andrewsparrow/status/922831836224589824
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Given that the Labour party could not bring itself to do anything serious about Livingstone, who sounded like a member of the David Irving Fan Club every time he opened his mouth, why would they do anything about this offensive twit?Sandpit said:
Until they know whether he’s safe or getting thrown overboard, they don’t know whether to exonerate him or condemn him - and they’re currently prepeared to do either, in the most colourful language possible.Scott_P said:@iainmartin1: Those moments mid Corbynista scandal when leadership position not yet clear. And the faithful don't know what to think/say yet...
Oh - and I do wish people would not use the “c” word to describe such people. Unlike the real thing they have neither the warmth nor the depth.0 -
Maybe someone who hated him, and bided their time.oxfordsimon said:
Not to defend the twunt, but I am sure we all have things we said or did when we were 19 that we would prefer not to emerge now.MarkHopkins said:FrancisUrquhart said:
When will MPs learn how Staines plays these things. He never fires all his bullets at once.Scott_P said:twitter.com/guidofawkes/status/922826317674016769
If they were smart enough to realise that... then they would be smart enough not to say those comments in the 1st place...
I am very intrigued as to how a 2002 message board was found and the links established. Quite some detective work!
It's not as bad though as the Labour councillor for my ward, Hightown, who was found to have posted messages in praise of Hitler on social media.0 -
True, but calling someone - with little provocation - an "ugly bitch" a few months ago is pretty awful. And illuminating as to his character.oxfordsimon said:
Not to defend the twunt, but I am sure we all have things we said or did when we were 19 that we would prefer not to emerge now.MarkHopkins said:FrancisUrquhart said:
When will MPs learn how Staines plays these things. He never fires all his bullets at once.Scott_P said:twitter.com/guidofawkes/status/922826317674016769
If they were smart enough to realise that... then they would be smart enough not to say those comments in the 1st place...
I am very intrigued as to how a 2002 message board was found and the links established. Quite some detective work!
I've said some embarrassing things in my youth (and indeed shameful, if I'm being honest), but I don't recall ever insulting a woman in such an nasty fashion.0 -
They gave up trying to work out what their policy was on Brexit.foxinsoxuk said:
Not mentioned on the reasons for voting Labour at all, in yesterdays thread.Sean_F said:
It's notable that Brexit should be the single most popular reason for voting Conservative.0 -
Well we all believed ICM during the GE and look how that turned out.FrancisUrquhart said:
If you only listened to the media narrative you would think Labour were 10%+ ahead and lead growing.Scott_P said:twitter.com/andrewsparrow/status/922831836224589824
0 -
The Tory poll position is looking pretty strong and stable....FrancisUrquhart said:
If you only listened to the media narrative you would think Labour were 10%+ ahead and lead growing.Scott_P said:twitter.com/andrewsparrow/status/922831836224589824
Oh, my coat!0 -
Given that he had previously stood as a Labour council candidate, they surely must have done some basic background checks over the previous 13 years (given that he first stood 2 years after these comments were made)Scott_P said:
0 -
0
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I think they’ve since tweaked their methodology.The_Apocalypse said:
Well we all believed ICM during the GE and look how that turned out.FrancisUrquhart said:
If you only listened to the media narrative you would think Labour were 10%+ ahead and lead growing.Scott_P said:twitter.com/andrewsparrow/status/922831836224589824
0 -
It shouldn’t have taken that long for them to come out against him, FGSScott_P said:0 -
And so the magic number roundabout continues turning...RobD said:
I think they’ve since tweaked their methodology.The_Apocalypse said:
Well we all believed ICM during the GE and look how that turned out.FrancisUrquhart said:
If you only listened to the media narrative you would think Labour were 10%+ ahead and lead growing.Scott_P said:twitter.com/andrewsparrow/status/922831836224589824
0 -
Yes, but we still don’t know whether that tweaked methodology is any better than the old methodology.RobD said:
I think they’ve since tweaked their methodology.The_Apocalypse said:
Well we all believed ICM during the GE and look how that turned out.FrancisUrquhart said:
If you only listened to the media narrative you would think Labour were 10%+ ahead and lead growing.Scott_P said:twitter.com/andrewsparrow/status/922831836224589824
Generally though, I’ve stopped relying on the old political litmus tests to measure what will happen next. It’s clear that they don’t work anymore. After all none of the polling data prior to the GE implied that Corbyn would do better than Ed M....0 -
He reminds me somewhat of Kerry Smith.The_Apocalypse said:
It shouldn’t have taken that long for them to come out against him, FGSScott_P said:0 -
Indeed - and it is his most recent conduct that is at the centre of the real story here.Anorak said:
True, but calling someone - with little provocation - an "ugly bitch" a few months ago is pretty awful. And illuminating as to his character.oxfordsimon said:
Not to defend the twunt, but I am sure we all have things we said or did when we were 19 that we would prefer not to emerge now.MarkHopkins said:FrancisUrquhart said:
When will MPs learn how Staines plays these things. He never fires all his bullets at once.Scott_P said:twitter.com/guidofawkes/status/922826317674016769
If they were smart enough to realise that... then they would be smart enough not to say those comments in the 1st place...
I am very intrigued as to how a 2002 message board was found and the links established. Quite some detective work!
I've said some embarrassing things in my youth (and indeed shameful, if I'm being honest), but I don't recall ever insulting a woman in such an nasty fashion.
We are going to have to accept that our politicians will have a more easily searchable past - and they are going to have to get out ahead of anything nasty.0 -
Cherchez la femme.Sean_F said:
Maybe someone who hated him, and bided their time.oxfordsimon said:
Not to defend the twunt, but I am sure we all have things we said or did when we were 19 that we would prefer not to emerge now.MarkHopkins said:FrancisUrquhart said:
When will MPs learn how Staines plays these things. He never fires all his bullets at once.Scott_P said:twitter.com/guidofawkes/status/922826317674016769
If they were smart enough to realise that... then they would be smart enough not to say those comments in the 1st place...
I am very intrigued as to how a 2002 message board was found and the links established. Quite some detective work!
It's not as bad though as the Labour councillor for my ward, Hightown, who was found to have posted messages in praise of Hitler on social media.
Why should women put up with being called such horrible things. We are busy praising them when they speak up, eventually, about Weinstein’s gross behaviour. Why should a Labour MP (any MP) be given a free pass?
It really is not difficult to be polite.
And if you are rude, then apologise. Use the words: “I am sorry.” That’s all. None of this “If I have offended you” nonsense. Don’t make excuses or point the finger at others. And then shut up.
Most of us learn this from our mothers. And don’t find this difficult. Were these people brought up by wolves, or something?0 -
I just googled Kerry Smith....woah, his comments really are shocking.Sean_F said:
He reminds me somewhat of Kerry Smith.The_Apocalypse said:
It shouldn’t have taken that long for them to come out against him, FGSScott_P said:
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2014/dec/14/ukip-kerry-smith-quits-election-candidate
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... but you are defending him.oxfordsimon said:
Not to defend the twunt, but I am sure we all have things we said or did when we were 19 that we would prefer not to emerge now.MarkHopkins said:FrancisUrquhart said:
When will MPs learn how Staines plays these things. He never fires all his bullets at once.Scott_P said:twitter.com/guidofawkes/status/922826317674016769
If they were smart enough to realise that... then they would be smart enough not to say those comments in the 1st place...
I am very intrigued as to how a 2002 message board was found and the links established. Quite some detective work!
I suspect that he still has those opinions.0 -
Freedom of movement I could get behind:
Peters set out his proposals for a CCER in a speech in February 2016, in which he said he hoped the UK would leave the EU to “heal a rift” with NZ that occurred when the UK joined the EEC. He noted that Boris Johnson had backed a migration agreement between the UK, NZ, Australia and Canada, suggesting that a future migration agreement between these four countries could be based on the current Transtasman Travel Agreement (the agreement between Australia and NZ that allows an automatic right to live and work).
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/24/new-zealand-taking-initiative-trade-brexit-britain-should-respond/0 -
Absolutely!RobD said:Freedom of movement I could get behind:
Peters set out his proposals for a CCER in a speech in February 2016, in which he said he hoped the UK would leave the EU to “heal a rift” with NZ that occurred when the UK joined the EEC. He noted that Boris Johnson had backed a migration agreement between the UK, NZ, Australia and Canada, suggesting that a future migration agreement between these four countries could be based on the current Transtasman Travel Agreement (the agreement between Australia and NZ that allows an automatic right to live and work).
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/24/new-zealand-taking-initiative-trade-brexit-britain-should-respond/0 -
Smith got re-elected as an independent to the County Council in May.The_Apocalypse said:
I just googled Kerry Smith....woah, his comments really are shocking.Sean_F said:
He reminds me somewhat of Kerry Smith.The_Apocalypse said:
It shouldn’t have taken that long for them to come out against him, FGSScott_P said:
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2014/dec/14/ukip-kerry-smith-quits-election-candidate
I once went canvassing with him (when we were both Conservatives). Every third word was "f*ck" "f*cking" or "c*nt". He said he looked forward to fighting a council election against the BNP because "I'm more right wing on immigration."0 -
Not to mention "I take full responsibility for my actions" and then blaming other people.Cyclefree said:
Cherchez la femme.Sean_F said:
Maybe someone who hated him, and bided their time.oxfordsimon said:
Not to defend the twunt, but I am sure we all have things we said or did when we were 19 that we would prefer not to emerge now.MarkHopkins said:FrancisUrquhart said:
When will MPs learn how Staines plays these things. He never fires all his bullets at once.Scott_P said:twitter.com/guidofawkes/status/922826317674016769
If they were smart enough to realise that... then they would be smart enough not to say those comments in the 1st place...
I am very intrigued as to how a 2002 message board was found and the links established. Quite some detective work!
It's not as bad though as the Labour councillor for my ward, Hightown, who was found to have posted messages in praise of Hitler on social media.
Why should women put up with being called such horrible things. We are busy praising them when they speak up, eventually, about Weinstein’s gross behaviour. Why should a Labour MP (any MP) be given a free pass?
It really is not difficult to be polite.
And if you are rude, then apologise. Use the words: “I am sorry.” That’s all. None of this “If I have offended you” nonsense. Don’t make excuses or point the finger at others. And then shut up.
Most of us learn this from our mothers. And don’t find this difficult. Were these people brought up by wolves, or something?0 -
He sounds like a pretty awful person to be around.Sean_F said:
Smith got re-elected as an independent to the County Council in May.The_Apocalypse said:
I just googled Kerry Smith....woah, his comments really are shocking.Sean_F said:
He reminds me somewhat of Kerry Smith.The_Apocalypse said:
It shouldn’t have taken that long for them to come out against him, FGSScott_P said:
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2014/dec/14/ukip-kerry-smith-quits-election-candidate
I once went canvassing with him (when we were both Conservatives). Every third word was "f*ck" "f*cking" or "c*nt". He said he looked forward to fighting a council election against the BNP because "I'm more right wing on immigration."
Re this guy (who is more right wing than the BNP on immigration - WTF?) and the Labour councillor who was praising Hitler....why aren’t political parties vetting their candidates more? How are people with such views allowed to be members of mainstream political parties?0 -
'Cos they're mostly white and speak English? That would make it better?RobD said:Freedom of movement I could get behind:
Peters set out his proposals for a CCER in a speech in February 2016, in which he said he hoped the UK would leave the EU to “heal a rift” with NZ that occurred when the UK joined the EEC. He noted that Boris Johnson had backed a migration agreement between the UK, NZ, Australia and Canada, suggesting that a future migration agreement between these four countries could be based on the current Transtasman Travel Agreement (the agreement between Australia and NZ that allows an automatic right to live and work).
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/24/new-zealand-taking-initiative-trade-brexit-britain-should-respond/0 -
The Union Jack in canton in their flags may be a giveaway.Anorak said:
'Cos they're mostly white and speak English? That would make it better?RobD said:Freedom of movement I could get behind:
Peters set out his proposals for a CCER in a speech in February 2016, in which he said he hoped the UK would leave the EU to “heal a rift” with NZ that occurred when the UK joined the EEC. He noted that Boris Johnson had backed a migration agreement between the UK, NZ, Australia and Canada, suggesting that a future migration agreement between these four countries could be based on the current Transtasman Travel Agreement (the agreement between Australia and NZ that allows an automatic right to live and work).
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/24/new-zealand-taking-initiative-trade-brexit-britain-should-respond/0 -
Indeed, although not exactly the same similar to how Cameron was able to blow off accusations of having taken illegal drugs while a student. People accept the difference between what was said/done when young and now if there is a difference, it is weasel words and equivocation that make things worse.Cyclefree said:
Cherchez la femme.Sean_F said:
Maybe someone who hated him, and bided their time.oxfordsimon said:
Not to defend the twunt, but I am sure we all have things we said or did when we were 19 that we would prefer not to emerge now.MarkHopkins said:FrancisUrquhart said:
When will MPs learn how Staines plays these things. He never fires all his bullets at once.Scott_P said:twitter.com/guidofawkes/status/922826317674016769
If they were smart enough to realise that... then they would be smart enough not to say those comments in the 1st place...
I am very intrigued as to how a 2002 message board was found and the links established. Quite some detective work!
It's not as bad though as the Labour councillor for my ward, Hightown, who was found to have posted messages in praise of Hitler on social media.
Why should women put up with being called such horrible things. We are busy praising them when they speak up, eventually, about Weinstein’s gross behaviour. Why should a Labour MP (any MP) be given a free pass?
It really is not difficult to be polite.
And if you are rude, then apologise. Use the words: “I am sorry.” That’s all. None of this “If I have offended you” nonsense. Don’t make excuses or point the finger at others. And then shut up.
Most of us learn this from our mothers. And don’t find this difficult. Were these people brought up by wolves, or something?
This could have blown over if he'd said something along the lines of "I apologise for what I said when I was young 15 years ago, it was inappropriate and offensive. I have grown up since and we all have a past and I would ask to be judged on my comments and behaviour now."
Except that relies upon the comments being historical and not modern which accusations are now coming out with.0 -
Much better. We voted to leave the EU to cut down on the number of immigrants who change the nature of our neighbourhoods and don't integrate and cover their faces half the time.Anorak said:
'Cos they're mostly white and speak English? That would make it better?RobD said:Freedom of movement I could get behind:
Peters set out his proposals for a CCER in a speech in February 2016, in which he said he hoped the UK would leave the EU to “heal a rift” with NZ that occurred when the UK joined the EEC. He noted that Boris Johnson had backed a migration agreement between the UK, NZ, Australia and Canada, suggesting that a future migration agreement between these four countries could be based on the current Transtasman Travel Agreement (the agreement between Australia and NZ that allows an automatic right to live and work).
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/24/new-zealand-taking-initiative-trade-brexit-britain-should-respond/0 -
The fact they're our geopolitical cousins and speak English absolutely does make it better yes of course it does.Anorak said:
'Cos they're mostly white and speak English? That would make it better?RobD said:Freedom of movement I could get behind:
Peters set out his proposals for a CCER in a speech in February 2016, in which he said he hoped the UK would leave the EU to “heal a rift” with NZ that occurred when the UK joined the EEC. He noted that Boris Johnson had backed a migration agreement between the UK, NZ, Australia and Canada, suggesting that a future migration agreement between these four countries could be based on the current Transtasman Travel Agreement (the agreement between Australia and NZ that allows an automatic right to live and work).
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/24/new-zealand-taking-initiative-trade-brexit-britain-should-respond/
Your white comment is idiotic considering that the EU is white in the same way as Australians are so there is no racial difference whatsoever there.0 -
And they wonder why some sections of society don’t want to vote for their party.Anorak said:
'Cos they're mostly white and speak English? That would make it better?RobD said:Freedom of movement I could get behind:
Peters set out his proposals for a CCER in a speech in February 2016, in which he said he hoped the UK would leave the EU to “heal a rift” with NZ that occurred when the UK joined the EEC. He noted that Boris Johnson had backed a migration agreement between the UK, NZ, Australia and Canada, suggesting that a future migration agreement between these four countries could be based on the current Transtasman Travel Agreement (the agreement between Australia and NZ that allows an automatic right to live and work).
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/24/new-zealand-taking-initiative-trade-brexit-britain-should-respond/0 -
Thankfully it’s a lot more expensive getting from Sydney to London than hopping across the channel.TOPPING said:
Much better. We voted to leave the EU to cut down on the number of immigrants who change the nature of our neighbourhoods and don't integrate and cover their faces half the time.Anorak said:
'Cos they're mostly white and speak English? That would make it better?RobD said:Freedom of movement I could get behind:
Peters set out his proposals for a CCER in a speech in February 2016, in which he said he hoped the UK would leave the EU to “heal a rift” with NZ that occurred when the UK joined the EEC. He noted that Boris Johnson had backed a migration agreement between the UK, NZ, Australia and Canada, suggesting that a future migration agreement between these four countries could be based on the current Transtasman Travel Agreement (the agreement between Australia and NZ that allows an automatic right to live and work).
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/24/new-zealand-taking-initiative-trade-brexit-britain-should-respond/0 -
What geopolitical interests does the UK have in common with Australia compared with the interests we have in common with France?Philip_Thompson said:
The fact they're our geopolitical cousins and speak English absolutely does make it better yes of course it does.Anorak said:
'Cos they're mostly white and speak English? That would make it better?RobD said:Freedom of movement I could get behind:
Peters set out his proposals for a CCER in a speech in February 2016, in which he said he hoped the UK would leave the EU to “heal a rift” with NZ that occurred when the UK joined the EEC. He noted that Boris Johnson had backed a migration agreement between the UK, NZ, Australia and Canada, suggesting that a future migration agreement between these four countries could be based on the current Transtasman Travel Agreement (the agreement between Australia and NZ that allows an automatic right to live and work).
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/24/new-zealand-taking-initiative-trade-brexit-britain-should-respond/0 -
Haha, yes.Philip_Thompson said:
The fact they're our geopolitical cousins and speak English absolutely does make it better yes of course it does.Anorak said:
'Cos they're mostly white and speak English? That would make it better?RobD said:Freedom of movement I could get behind:
Peters set out his proposals for a CCER in a speech in February 2016, in which he said he hoped the UK would leave the EU to “heal a rift” with NZ that occurred when the UK joined the EEC. He noted that Boris Johnson had backed a migration agreement between the UK, NZ, Australia and Canada, suggesting that a future migration agreement between these four countries could be based on the current Transtasman Travel Agreement (the agreement between Australia and NZ that allows an automatic right to live and work).
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/24/new-zealand-taking-initiative-trade-brexit-britain-should-respond/
Your white comment is idiotic considering that the EU is white in the same way as Australians are so there is no racial difference whatsoever there.0 -
Remember the (entirely justified) Tory accusation that Labour targets led to NHS managers gaming the system to meet them, at the expense of clinical care ?
A similar process is perhaps underway in education:
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2017/oct/24/sacked-school-headteacher-alevel-results
(FWIW, my own anecdotal experience provides some evidence of this.)0
