politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Not quite the Thursday newspaper headlines that Team TMay had
politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Not quite the Thursday newspaper headlines that Team TMay had planned
Brutal. pic.twitter.com/wh9C6lVb2C
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Oh god not more of this. Its too cruel.0
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She should have listened to me and she wouldn’t be in this mess.0
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While the only alternatives are Boris or Corbyn, she has to continue.0
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There are more alternatives. It is questionable whether if there was a contest that Boris would make it to the final members' ballotThomasNashe said:While the only alternatives are Boris or Corbyn, she has to continue.
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Nobody complained when you used to do similar threads on Gordon Brown ?MikeSmithson said:0 -
In the context of leadership contests, this data may well be useful:
https://twitter.com/ProfTimBale/status/9154903648024371200 -
Good morning, everyone.
F1: rumour on the BBC that Verstappen's halfway to signing for Mercedes in 2019.0 -
Gordon Brown never sunk quite this low, perhaps til bigoted woman gate right at the very end. His speeches were an asset.TheScreamingEagles said:
Nobody complained when you used to do similar threads on Gordon Brown ?MikeSmithson said:0 -
It has been weird how the Tories have been in denial about May. This was not a surprise to anyone outside the blue tentMikeSmithson said:
There are more alternatives. It is questionable whether if there was a contest that Boris would make it to the final members' ballotThomasNashe said:While the only alternatives are Boris or Corbyn, she has to continue.
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The Guardian piece linked to on the last thread was truly excellent. "Two drunks fighting in a puddle" . The lack of insight in each party behind the writer's pertinent question, "why are we not murdering this lot?" was painfully exposed.MikeSmithson said:
Heath and the latter day Wilson wasn't a great choice in 74 but it was better than this. An increasingly demented Thatcher or Kinnock in 87 wasn't great either. But its not easy to think of a time when our leadership choices were so totally inadequate.0 -
Someone finish her off please.0
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It's hard to see how this is survivable for May. It's a matter of when, not if. And then the Tories' next gift to a grateful nation is Boris!!! That Corbyn firewall will not be there forever. It's hard to escape the conclusion that once he goes the Tories are looking at a very long time out of power.0
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I don't quite rememver 1974, but I remember everything since 1979. This is easily the worst government and worst opposition combination I have lived through. The absolutedeadening mediocrity of both front benches is stunning. At least Labour can say that Corbyn refuses to pick from the full range of possibilities. But what on earth is May's excuse?DavidL said:
The Guardian piece linked to on the last thread was truly excellent. "Two drunks fighting in a puddle" . The lack of insight in each party behind the writer's pertinent question, "why are we not murdering this lot?" was painfully exposed.MikeSmithson said:
Heath and the latter day Wilson wasn't a great choice in 74 but it was better than this. An increasingly demented Thatcher or Kinnock in 87 wasn't great either. But its not easy to think of a time when our leadership choices were so totally inadequate.
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It's back!0
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It's been a matter of when not if since she lost the majority. The force that keeps her in office ( the power went long ago) is the fear of what follows.SouthamObserver said:It's hard to see how this is survivable for May. It's a matter of when, not if. And then the Tories' next gift to a grateful nation is Boris!!! That Corbyn firewall will not be there forever. It's hard to escape the conclusion that once he goes the Tories are looking at a very long time out of power.
Sensible Tories need to find candidates that can win the MP ballot and be acceptable to their dwindling members.0 -
24 hour news killed politics for a lot of potential people. As others continually say there is more (potentially a lot more) money for far less hassle elsewhere...DavidL said:
The Guardian piece linked to on the last thread was truly excellent. "Two drunks fighting in a puddle" . The lack of insight in each party behind the writer's pertinent question, "why are we not murdering this lot?" was painfully exposed.MikeSmithson said:
Heath and the latter day Wilson wasn't a great choice in 74 but it was better than this. An increasingly demented Thatcher or Kinnock in 87 wasn't great either. But its not easy to think of a time when our leadership choices were so totally inadequate.0 -
All those Labour ex-MPs who stood down as power was gone for Labour until 2030....SouthamObserver said:It's hard to see how this is survivable for May. It's a matter of when, not if. And then the Tories' next gift to a grateful nation is Boris!!! That Corbyn firewall will not be there forever. It's hard to escape the conclusion that once he goes the Tories are looking at a very long time out of power.
funny old world0 -
The irony is the text of the speech wasn't bad. https://www.conservativehome.com/parliament/2017/10/renewing-the-british-dream-mays-speech-in-full.html
Wasn't bad in the sense it tried to put parsecs between May and her rabid 9 months between " Citizens of Nowhere " and *that* campaign. It's a largely sunny, Cameroonian speech from someone who was a Cameron before Cameron. Books will be written for decades on how an arch moderniser destroyed her Premiership with the sort of rabid culture war lurch she'd spent her previous career fighting against. It's ok inexplicable to date.
Also worth noting the only serving political name checked in the text. Ruth Davidson. Just as she was the only one name checked by Blair in his latest magisterial piece. Davidson really is the Designated Survivor of centrism fated to emerge from the bunker after all this is over in 5 years or so.
Also note the two odd mentions of Osborne in the speech. Was she planning on bringing him back Mandelson style ? Too late now. Though her endorsement to be the Maidenhead Byelection candidate may still carry some weight.
But the text of the speech doesn't matter. The frankly Jungian physical manifestations of the inner chaos put paid to that. What an absolute national disaster were facing. Leavened only with it being hilarious.0 -
Curse of new thread!
The sad thing about all the shit that went down during the speech is that it has detracted from analysis of what she actually said.
Which was channelling Miliband policies that were ruthlessly attacked by the Tories previously and a load of hooey about opportunity that entirely sat at odds with her relentlessly nasty and authoritarian speech of 2016. In other words loaded with layer on layer of hypocrisy. That's what the papers should be exposing.
As for Boris, the guy has repeatedly shown himself unfit to run a whelk stall. He's derided by virtually the whole world. If he gets the top job, we'll be ostracised, a global laughing stock.
We need a proper deal now, to rise above the bullshit, the fantasy and the party politics, and it's a deal only a remainer can make.0 -
But how can you take a leader seriously who snarls at liberals one year and tickles their tummy the next. I'm sorry, all evidence from her time at the HO points to her real views being more the former. She's just channeling her weakness. She has to go.YellowSubmarine said:The irony is the text of the speech wasn't bad. https://www.conservativehome.com/parliament/2017/10/renewing-the-british-dream-mays-speech-in-full.html
Wasn't bad in the sense it tried to put parsecs between May and her rabid 9 months between " Citizens of Nowhere " and *that* campaign. It's a largely sunny, Cameroonian speech from someone who was a Cameron before Cameron. Books will be written for decades on how an arch moderniser destroyed her Premiership with the sort of rabid culture war lurch she'd spent her previous career fighting against. It's ok inexplicable to date.
Also worth noting the only serving political name checked in the text. Ruth Davidson. Just as she was the only one name checked by Blair in his latest magisterial piece. Davidson really is the Designated Survivor of centrism fated to emerge from the bunker after all this is over in 5 years or so.
Also note the two odd mentions of Osborne in the speech. Was she planning on bringing him back Mandelson style ? Too late now. Though her endorsement to be the Maidenhead Byelection candidate may still carry some weight.
But the text of the speech doesn't matter. The frankly Jungian physical manifestations of the inner chaos put paid to that. What an absolute national disaster were facing. Leavened only with it being hilarious.0 -
Apart from that what did you think of the play Mr Lincoln?YellowSubmarine said:The irony is the text of the speech wasn't bad. https://www.conservativehome.com/parliament/2017/10/renewing-the-british-dream-mays-speech-in-full.html
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It was a joke, MikeMikeSmithson said:0 -
Fallon?0
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.....and the winner is ........THE SUN!!!!!0
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How does this ' price cap ' work by the way ? If the government caps SVTs what's to stop the Big 6 just slowly inflating fixed tariffs to maintain their profit margins ? May is spot on about the demographics of those on SVTs and why they don't switch. But those demographics will also apply to lower electoral turnouts and voting Labour. While the kind of folk with the capacity to fluidly switch will be more likely to vote. The danger is she fixes one problem but the dam just burst elsewhere - and in a way that will actually cost her more votes than the status quo.
If we really are going to go down the route of regulating the general prices of a privately provided product the Water Regulation regime is the obvious and sensible model. It had uniform political buy in until Comrade Corbyn and in terms of the long term cost of Water it worked.
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Link us to your prediction of it, then. I am gutted at missing your tip to back ”letter F falls off slogan” at 200/1. Either that, or stop aftertiming. This was all entirely contingent, shit happens stuff. The F could have stayed in place, the voice could have lasted another half hour.Jonathan said:
It has been weird how the Tories have been in denial about May. This was not a surprise to anyone outside the blue tentMikeSmithson said:
There are more alternatives. It is questionable whether if there was a contest that Boris would make it to the final members' ballotThomasNashe said:While the only alternatives are Boris or Corbyn, she has to continue.
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That is how we ended up with Laura Pidcock MP.eek said:
24 hour news killed politics for a lot of potential people. As others continually say there is more (potentially a lot more) money for far less hassle elsewhere...DavidL said:
The Guardian piece linked to on the last thread was truly excellent. "Two drunks fighting in a puddle" . The lack of insight in each party behind the writer's pertinent question, "why are we not murdering this lot?" was painfully exposed.MikeSmithson said:
Heath and the latter day Wilson wasn't a great choice in 74 but it was better than this. An increasingly demented Thatcher or Kinnock in 87 wasn't great either. But its not easy to think of a time when our leadership choices were so totally inadequate.0 -
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Mr. Submarine, Ammianus Marcellinus generally approved of Julian the Apostate, but did lambast the emperor when he sought to curry popular favour by fixing the price of commodities (food), correctly pointing out that such policies lead to shortages and even famine.
That was in the 4th century.0 -
But then people would have ripped into the speech, full of hypocrisy and fairy tales.Ishmael_Z said:
Link us to your prediction of it, then. I am gutted at missing your tip to back ”letter F falls off slogan” at 200/1. Either that, or stop aftertiming. This was all entirely contingent, shit happens stuff. The F could have stayed in place, the voice could have lasted another half hour.Jonathan said:
It has been weird how the Tories have been in denial about May. This was not a surprise to anyone outside the blue tentMikeSmithson said:
There are more alternatives. It is questionable whether if there was a contest that Boris would make it to the final members' ballotThomasNashe said:While the only alternatives are Boris or Corbyn, she has to continue.
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I’d love to be at a meeting of the SNP Cornwall branch. Presumably ex-pat Scots?foxinsoxuk said:In the context of leadership contests, this data may well be useful:
https://twitter.com/ProfTimBale/status/915490364802437120
On a serious note, Labour not as youth and London-dominated as you might think.0 -
If the PM resigns does that count as leaving the Cabinet?0
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Depends on the wording, but if it is a resignation like Dave or Maggie, the dead heat rules apply, as they went with other cabinet ministers, the day they officially left office.Ishmael_Z said:If the PM resigns does that count as leaving the Cabinet?
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I agree but it is only recently that we had DC as PM and GO as Chancellor. As grown up a government as I can recall, if not without its petty moments. The three most obviously capable people in the country to lead the country (excluding DC), Osborne, Balls and Davidson are not even in the House of Commons. Its grim.eek said:
24 hour news killed politics for a lot of potential people. As others continually say there is more (potentially a lot more) money for far less hassle elsewhere...DavidL said:
The Guardian piece linked to on the last thread was truly excellent. "Two drunks fighting in a puddle" . The lack of insight in each party behind the writer's pertinent question, "why are we not murdering this lot?" was painfully exposed.MikeSmithson said:
Heath and the latter day Wilson wasn't a great choice in 74 but it was better than this. An increasingly demented Thatcher or Kinnock in 87 wasn't great either. But its not easy to think of a time when our leadership choices were so totally inadequate.0 -
From Tuesday night...Ishmael_Z said:
Link us to your prediction of it, then. I am gutted at missing your tip to back ”letter F falls off slogan” at 200/1. Either that, or stop aftertiming. This was all entirely contingent, shit happens stuff. The F could have stayed in place, the voice could have lasted another half hour.Jonathan said:
It has been weird how the Tories have been in denial about May. This was not a surprise to anyone outside the blue tentMikeSmithson said:
There are more alternatives. It is questionable whether if there was a contest that Boris would make it to the final members' ballotThomasNashe said:While the only alternatives are Boris or Corbyn, she has to continue.
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May lost power in June. She is soon to lose office. Destined to be one of the more tragic figures of British politics.
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Spot on, I'd say.0 -
Brexit really did screw the country by hollowing out the Tory party at the top.DavidL said:
I agree but it is only recently that we had DC as PM and GO as Chancellor. As grown up a government as I can recall, if not without its petty moments. The three most obviously capable people in the country to lead the country (excluding DC), Osborne, Balls and Davidson are not even in the House of Commons. Its grim.eek said:
24 hour news killed politics for a lot of potential people. As others continually say there is more (potentially a lot more) money for far less hassle elsewhere...DavidL said:
The Guardian piece linked to on the last thread was truly excellent. "Two drunks fighting in a puddle" . The lack of insight in each party behind the writer's pertinent question, "why are we not murdering this lot?" was painfully exposed.MikeSmithson said:
Heath and the latter day Wilson wasn't a great choice in 74 but it was better than this. An increasingly demented Thatcher or Kinnock in 87 wasn't great either. But its not easy to think of a time when our leadership choices were so totally inadequate.0 -
Mr. L, Osborne's own damn fault.
And for those who cite May's unnecessarily harsh treatment of him: nobody forced him out of the Commons. Osborne left of his own accord.0 -
I think that's unfair but it certainly exposed the canker underneath. Both parties have been painfully short of talent for a long time. Those 2 were the exception.TheScreamingEagles said:
Brexit really did screw the country by hollowing out the Tory party at the top.DavidL said:
I agree but it is only recently that we had DC as PM and GO as Chancellor. As grown up a government as I can recall, if not without its petty moments. The three most obviously capable people in the country to lead the country (excluding DC), Osborne, Balls and Davidson are not even in the House of Commons. Its grim.eek said:
24 hour news killed politics for a lot of potential people. As others continually say there is more (potentially a lot more) money for far less hassle elsewhere...DavidL said:
The Guardian piece linked to on the last thread was truly excellent. "Two drunks fighting in a puddle" . The lack of insight in each party behind the writer's pertinent question, "why are we not murdering this lot?" was painfully exposed.MikeSmithson said:
Heath and the latter day Wilson wasn't a great choice in 74 but it was better than this. An increasingly demented Thatcher or Kinnock in 87 wasn't great either. But its not easy to think of a time when our leadership choices were so totally inadequate.0 -
Anyway in the last 18 hours my heart of Obsidian has melted slightly. I'm going to start praying Theresa May. I've never prayed for a politician before. I can't rationalise it but there seems something it uniquely tragic about her. She may be an evil old Banshee who ran an election campaign telling me I wasn't properly British but ...
It's a bit like writing an Amnesty International letter for a hideous murderer on the grounds of principle of the Death Penalty. She may utterly deserve what's coming too her and it will be hilarious. But nevertheless human beings deserve a core of compassion that escaped me yesterday. I will ask Our Lady of Lewisham to watch over her.0 -
The Daily Mail Simon Jenkins, the Guardian:
Gone by the autumn: that was the conventional wisdom when Theresa May failed to win her election majority last summer. She was a dead woman walking. She would not even make it to her party conference, let alone survive it.
She is still there, and shows no signs of leaving. So much for the conventional wisdom, biased always to apocalypse and bored by continuity......
I suspect May will emerge from this debacle curiously strengthened. Her enemies will inevitably see it as a coded sign of female weakness, but her greatest lack so far has been of humanity. In Manchester, she was compelled to convey humour, vulnerability and a degree of emotion. I doubt if it will do her much harm. She may be unpopular but survive she will, for the time being. The Tories elected her a year ago. They know they must live with her.
Conferences are a distorting lens of political fortune. British party leaders are in a phenomenally strong position, provided they hold their nerve. The bizarre events in Manchester suggest May’s nerve, if not her voice, remains steady.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/04/manchester-theresa-may-voice-speech0 -
But no one should want to be a government minister for the moneyeek said:
24 hour news killed politics for a lot of potential people. As others continually say there is more (potentially a lot more) money for far less hassle elsewhere...DavidL said:
The Guardian piece linked to on the last thread was truly excellent. "Two drunks fighting in a puddle" . The lack of insight in each party behind the writer's pertinent question, "why are we not murdering this lot?" was painfully exposed.MikeSmithson said:
Heath and the latter day Wilson wasn't a great choice in 74 but it was better than this. An increasingly demented Thatcher or Kinnock in 87 wasn't great either. But its not easy to think of a time when our leadership choices were so totally inadequate.0 -
And inspired in equal parts by Miliband, E. and Corbyn, J. To be fair they are probably doing just that on the inside pages. But there is too much ”i saw this coming, not like the stupid PB Tories" on here.Monksfield said:
But then people would have ripped into the speech, full of hypocrisy and fairy tales.Ishmael_Z said:
Link us to your prediction of it, then. I am gutted at missing your tip to back ”letter F falls off slogan” at 200/1. Either that, or stop aftertiming. This was all entirely contingent, shit happens stuff. The F could have stayed in place, the voice could have lasted another half hour.Jonathan said:
It has been weird how the Tories have been in denial about May. This was not a surprise to anyone outside the blue tentMikeSmithson said:
There are more alternatives. It is questionable whether if there was a contest that Boris would make it to the final members' ballotThomasNashe said:While the only alternatives are Boris or Corbyn, she has to continue.
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In better news, ISIS has lost almost all its Iraqi territory:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-415090850 -
Just what the country needs a convicted drunken driverTheScreamingEagles said:0 -
I think the less you say the better.YellowSubmarine said:Anyway in the last 18 hours my heart of Obsidian has melted slightly. I'm going to start praying Theresa May. I've never prayed for a politician before. I can't rationalise it but there seems something it uniquely tragic about her. She may be an evil old Banshee who ran an election campaign telling me I wasn't properly British but ...
It's a bit like writing an Amnesty International letter for a hideous murderer on the grounds of principle of the Death Penalty. She may utterly deserve what's coming too her and it will be hilarious. But nevertheless human beings deserve a core of compassion that escaped me yesterday. I will ask Our Lady of Lewisham to watch over her.0 -
I do think this is more dangerous to May's Premiership than almost anything else that has happened. As the Tories found while canvassing in 1997, while anger, distrust, or even hatred can be overcome, when they look at you with pity in their eyes, it's all over.0
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Mr. Smithson, I'll take a drunk driver over a terrorist sympathiser.0
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What is it with the left and anti-semitism?
Austria’s centre-left chancellor is battling allegations that his party paid for a group of websites churning out xenophobic and antisemitic conspiracy theories in order to discredit his main challenger in the eyes of far-right supporters.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/05/negative-campaign-sites-scandal-shakes-up-austrian-election-race0 -
Check the small print. When a PM resigns the whole government is dissolved. May trigger ' Dead Heat ' rules as in constitutional theory the whole Cabinet went with her.Ishmael_Z said:If the PM resigns does that count as leaving the Cabinet?
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Good grief. So it's clearly Gove then?MikeSmithson said:
Just what the country needs a convicted drunken driverTheScreamingEagles said:0 -
A fate richly deserved given their abandonment of governing in the national interest.SouthamObserver said:It's hard to escape the conclusion that once he goes the Tories are looking at a very long time out of power.
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Corbyn has lowered the bar in what we look for in Prime Ministers.MikeSmithson said:
Just what the country needs a convicted drunken driverTheScreamingEagles said:0 -
If we step away from our bubble listening to both the radio and tv this morning the public seem to be on her side and in Chester they were very supportive and said their is 'no one else'
Those last three words must resonate widely and I would agree that I cannot recall a time when both the government and the opposition were so devoid of talent and at the same time facing the most important issue for decades.
I have supported Theresa much because I do not see a successor but the person who is key in all this is her husband. If he feels she needs to stand down he will hopefully guide her.
I know the anti conservative supporters on here are desperate for her to stand down in the hope of an election, but judging by the mood of the Country they do not want an election and neither is Corbyn a shoe in, as he contributes in a big way to the public's perception that they are all inadequate.0 -
TBH, that seems to be the case throughout the Western world. How many first rate politicians are there?DavidL said:
I think that's unfair but it certainly exposed the canker underneath. Both parties have been painfully short of talent for a long time. Those 2 were the exception.TheScreamingEagles said:
Brexit really did screw the country by hollowing out the Tory party at the top.DavidL said:
I agree but it is only recently that we had DC as PM and GO as Chancellor. As grown up a government as I can recall, if not without its petty moments. The three most obviously capable people in the country to lead the country (excluding DC), Osborne, Balls and Davidson are not even in the House of Commons. Its grim.eek said:
24 hour news killed politics for a lot of potential people. As others continually say there is more (potentially a lot more) money for far less hassle elsewhere...DavidL said:
The Guardian piece linked to on the last thread was truly excellent. "Two drunks fighting in a puddle" . The lack of insight in each party behind the writer's pertinent question, "why are we not murdering this lot?" was painfully exposed.MikeSmithson said:
Heath and the latter day Wilson wasn't a great choice in 74 but it was better than this. An increasingly demented Thatcher or Kinnock in 87 wasn't great either. But its not easy to think of a time when our leadership choices were so totally inadequate.0 -
I expect that Theresa May kept going after the election because she felt that it was her duty to do so, given that the alternatives were worse. With the benefit of hindsight, she should have stepped down then though - she simply didn't have what it takes to recover from such a crushing blow.
I hope that her husband quietly tells her that she has done more than enough now and that she should make way.0 -
The least of his problems. Obnoxious, boorish, not very bright and pedantic. His role as an "attack dog" merely reflected the fish in the barrel targets he was aiming at. He offers nothing.MikeSmithson said:
Just what the country needs a convicted drunken driverTheScreamingEagles said:0 -
I see the bbc have finally caught up with the guardians report of several days ago on the ted heath investigation. The Guardian one actually mentioned the low threshold that is 'grounds to suspect' (a rather weak outcome after millions and years ) and it also explained how the police notes referring to victims and that they didn't find contradictory evidence to some claims rather than finding proof of the claims, showing the investigation used the fundamentally flawed approach as criticised by the Henriques report in assuming allegations are true and expecting the accused to essentially prove themselves innocent.
They'd question him, maybe, if he were alive, that's it. That is them spinning that he's guilt but they are able to prove it.
The report will be interesting - if the Guardian are right about how the investigation was conducted, which essentially biases investigators from the off and places the burden on the accused to prove innocence, then it truly was a colossal waste. For their sake I hope there was more to it.0 -
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Fits the zeitgeist perfectly i'd sayMikeSmithson said:
Just what the country needs a convicted drunken driverTheScreamingEagles said:0 -
He’s a proper Thatcherite. Mrs T adored him.DavidL said:
The least of his problems. Obnoxious, boorish, not very bright and pedantic. His role as an "attack dog" merely reflected the fish in the barrel targets he was aiming at. He offers nothing.MikeSmithson said:
Just what the country needs a convicted drunken driverTheScreamingEagles said:
Had he not lost his seat 1992 I reckon he might have replaced John Major in 1997.0 -
The problem with politicians everywhere is that winning elections is a very different skill set to governing competently. Unfortunately we choose our leaders by assuming they can do the latter based on how well they do the former.0
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I've never thought it was anything other than rubbish. The idea of Ted Heath and Harvey Proctor attending parties together at which boys were raped and murdered beggars belief.kle4 said:I see the bbc have finally caught up with the guardians report of several days ago on the ted heath investigation. The Guardian one actually mentioned the low threshold that is 'grounds to suspect' (a rather weak outcome after millions and years ) and it also explained how the police notes referring to victims and that they didn't find contradictory evidence to some claims rather than finding proof of the claims, showing the investigation used the fundamentally flawed approach as criticised by the Henriques report in assuming allegations are true and expecting the accused to essentially prove themselves innocent.
They'd question him, maybe, if he were alive, that's it. That is them spinning that he's guilt but they are able to prove it.
The report will be interesting - if the Guardian are right about how the investigation was conducted, which essentially biases investigators from the off and places the burden on the accused to prove innocence, then it truly was a colossal waste. For their sake I hope there was more to it.0 -
https://twitter.com/SamDoesPolitics/status/915552971706060800AlastairMeeks said:I expect that Theresa May kept going after the election because she felt that it was her duty to do so, given that the alternatives were worse. With the benefit of hindsight, she should have stepped down then though - she simply didn't have what it takes to recover from such a crushing blow.
I hope that her husband quietly tells her that she has done more than enough now and that she should make way.0 -
That's where he list my sympathy, and his apparently personal vindictiveNess is unnecessary, though like others I agreed the way may fired him was not needed at the time. He's responsible for his personal vendetta, butv she didn't need to make such a big enemy.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. L, Osborne's own damn fault.
And for those who cite May's unnecessarily harsh treatment of him: nobody forced him out of the Commons. Osborne left of his own accord.0 -
The reality remains that the Tories can't afford to waste 3 months with a leadership election with Article 50 ticking. If no deal happens they could not shift the blame. They need to blame it on May if that happens.0
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A personal vendetta or just Osborne recognising the damage she's doing to the Tory party and trying to stop it?kle4 said:
That's where he list my sympathy, and his apparently personal vindictiveNess is unnecessary, though like others I agreed the way may fired him was not needed at the time. He's responsible for his personal vendetta, butv she didn't need to make such a big enemy.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. L, Osborne's own damn fault.
And for those who cite May's unnecessarily harsh treatment of him: nobody forced him out of the Commons. Osborne left of his own accord.0 -
Meanwhile Nick Clegg encourages people to join Labour.
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/liberal-democrats/news/89565/join-labour-stop-brexit-nick-clegg-says0 -
I heard his speech and he and others like him will be the catalyst that will increase the anti EU sentimentEssexit said:Just a trading bloc..
https://twitter.com/GuyVerhofstadt/status/9156061066673520640 -
That's why she needed to stick around, in my view but if things get too bad enough will force action now. A coronation needed, but after last time and all the divisions that seems unlikely.Elliot said:The reality remains that the Tories can't afford to waste 3 months with a leadership election with Article 50 ticking. If no deal happens they could not shift the blame. They need to blame it on May if that happens.
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Kills a couple of myths:foxinsoxuk said:In the context of leadership contests, this data may well be useful:
https://twitter.com/ProfTimBale/status/915490364802437120
i) The Tories are pensioners - average ages are within 10% of each other across the Parties
ii) No Tories in Scotland - proportionately more than Labour or the Lib Dems
iii) Labour is a 'London/M25' Party - its the least represented in London/South East of the national parties.
iv) The Tories are the London/South East Party - not when the Lib Dems have 60% of their members there.
v) Labour is the Party of the young - really, with 16% of their members under 34 while the Tories have 14% and the LD's 20%?0 -
Mr. F, quite. There's a spotlight on politicians but not policies, more money can earnt with far less hassle elsewhere, and any deviation of thought is a 'split'. Political journalists are generally rubbish.
Mr. kle/Mr. F, quite. But old white guys don't benefit from investigations being culturally insensitive.0 -
He's cr@p,look at the disastrous interviews at the General election.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Mr Observer,
I agree with you, this is the worst Government and Opposition I can remember. A dim, hard- left Trot with an inflexible mind, and a woman lacking confidence, political ability or judgement.
BTW, yesterday at Conference was irrelevant. She had a cough, a nutter in the crowd made a childish gesture, and a set misbehaved. Which ones were her fault? None of them.
Catalonia receives sympathy for holding an illegal referendum and wishing for freedom from the larger state. The LDs demand we stay in the EU despite a legal referendum voting to leave. And they call themselves Democrats.
Vote for NOTA!
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Jimmy Savile says hello.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. F, quite. There's a spotlight on politicians but not policies, more money can earnt with far less hassle elsewhere, and any deviation of thought is a 'split'. Political journalists are generally rubbish.
Mr. kle/Mr. F, quite. But old white guys don't benefit from investigations being culturally insensitive.0 -
Mrs May could show is the bigger person with the county and party’s interests at heart by ennobling George and bringing him back into government.JonathanD said:
A personal vendetta or just Osborne recognising the damage she's doing to the Tory party and trying to stop it?kle4 said:
That's where he list my sympathy, and his apparently personal vindictiveNess is unnecessary, though like others I agreed the way may fired him was not needed at the time. He's responsible for his personal vendetta, butv she didn't need to make such a big enemy.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. L, Osborne's own damn fault.
And for those who cite May's unnecessarily harsh treatment of him: nobody forced him out of the Commons. Osborne left of his own accord.
If Gordon Brown could manage it with Peter Mandelson then so can Mrs May, but we all know she’s a vindicative person whose programming doesn’t allow such magnanimity.
She’s more comfortable with Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill at her side.0 -
That seems overly cruel keeping May on just to take the blame.Elliot said:The reality remains that the Tories can't afford to waste 3 months with a leadership election with Article 50 ticking. If no deal happens they could not shift the blame. They need to blame it on May if that happens.
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This is all very familiar.
Isn't it the same mocking that Ed Miliband suffered ? Wasn't it Justine who protected him at the end and played the 'Philip May' role?
Or the same ridiculing laughter that Ming Campbell faced (remember 'Grandpa')?
In fact, Jeremy was on the receiving end of it for almost the first year or so as Leader of the Opposition. I think his time will come again.
It is often orchestrated by the press, but the rival party supporters join in all too enthusiastically.
And, then we wonder why there are few people of any talent to lead the country?0 -
Mr. Eagles, there were rumours about Savile even in the early 1990s. The authorities turned a blind eye over decades.
Savile's dead. They can't chase his ghost, and police trying to pin blame on other dead white guys or putting old men through investigation based on spurious claims is adding to failure, not redeeming themselves.
Right now there are large numbers of rape gangs targeting young girls and boys. That should be the police focus.0 -
I think the difference between perception and reality is due to the active membership having a different profile to the overall membership. Labour's activists are younger and more male - the majority of members just sit at home.CarlottaVance said:
Kills a couple of myths:foxinsoxuk said:In the context of leadership contests, this data may well be useful:
https://twitter.com/ProfTimBale/status/915490364802437120
i) The Tories are pensioners - average ages are within 10% of each other across the Parties
ii) No Tories in Scotland - proportionately more than Labour or the Lib Dems
iii) Labour is a 'London/M25' Party - its the least represented in London/South East of the national parties.
iv) The Tories are the London/South East Party - not when the Lib Dems have 60% of their members there.
v) Labour is the Party of the young - really, with 16% of their members under 34 while the Tories have 14% and the LD's 20%?0 -
Blame Mrs May, no one had a good campaign thanks to her.Tykejohnno said:
He's cr@p,look at the disastrous interviews at the General election.TheScreamingEagles said:
Ruth Davidson and the Scons has an excellent campaign as they ran their own campaign0 -
I have no issue with a claim being investigated, and thoroughly too given the implications. Even in the case of being so historic and thus hard to prove , and even if the subject is dead, if an allegation is serious enough some level of investigation may be warranted. Of course, one must question how much time and money can be afforded to not given other priorities.Sean_F said:
I've never thought it was anything other than rubbish. The idea of Ted Heath and Harvey Proctor attending parties together at which boys were raped and murdered beggars belief.kle4 said:I see the bbc have finally caught up with the guardians report of several days ago on the ted heath investigation. The Guardian one actually mentioned the low threshold that is 'grounds to suspect' (a rather weak outcome after millions and years ) and it also explained how
They'd question him, maybe, if he were alive, that's it. That is them spinning that he's guilt but they are able to prove it.
The report will be interesting - if the Guardian are right about how the investigation was conducted, which essentially biases investigators from the off and places the burden on the accused to prove innocence, then it truly was a colossal waste. For their sake I hope there was more to it.
But the claims need to be substantive, there needs to be corroboration, and most vitally the investigation needs to be properly conducted. The unacceptability of an approach which presumes guilt and biases investigators as detailed by the Henriques report really stuck with me. The automatically believing alleged victims and making people, who are in this case dead, needing to prove innocence, is abhorrent to the very idea of proper procedure, and the Guardian report, though not negative, indicated by detail they used that approach.
That 'grounds to suspect' is such a low barrier but will be taken as proof of guilt is very sad.0 -
"The LDs demand we stay in the EU despite a legal referendum voting to leave."CD13 said:Mr Observer,
I agree with you, this is the worst Government and Opposition I can remember. A dim, hard- left Trot with an inflexible mind, and a woman lacking confidence, political ability or judgement.
BTW, yesterday at Conference was irrelevant. She had a cough, a nutter in the crowd made a childish gesture, and a set misbehaved. Which ones were her fault? None of them.
Catalonia receives sympathy for holding an illegal referendum and wishing for freedom from the larger state. The LDs demand we stay in the EU despite a legal referendum voting to leave. And they call themselves Democrats.
Vote for NOTA!
That's factually incorrect.
As I understand it they want a new referendum on the deal once it has been agreed between the UK and EU. You can disagree with that, but they are asking for MORE democracy.0 -
Can anyone answer the question to me what happens if we vote no in that referendum?logical_song said:
"The LDs demand we stay in the EU despite a legal referendum voting to leave."CD13 said:Mr Observer,
I agree with you, this is the worst Government and Opposition I can remember. A dim, hard- left Trot with an inflexible mind, and a woman lacking confidence, political ability or judgement.
BTW, yesterday at Conference was irrelevant. She had a cough, a nutter in the crowd made a childish gesture, and a set misbehaved. Which ones were her fault? None of them.
Catalonia receives sympathy for holding an illegal referendum and wishing for freedom from the larger state. The LDs demand we stay in the EU despite a legal referendum voting to leave. And they call themselves Democrats.
Vote for NOTA!
That's factually incorrect.
As I understand it they want a new referendum on the deal once it has been agreed between the UK and EU. You can disagree with that, but they are asking for MORE democracy.0 -
Personal - he said he wanted her chopped up in bags in his freezer.his obvious hatred undermines whatever true points he makesJonathanD said:
A personal vendetta or just Osborne recognising the damage she's doing to the Tory party and trying to stop it?kle4 said:
That's where he list my sympathy, and his apparently personal vindictiveNess is unnecessary, though like others I agreed the way may fired him was not needed at the time. He's responsible for his personal vendetta, butv she didn't need to make such a big enemy.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. L, Osborne's own damn fault.
And for those who cite May's unnecessarily harsh treatment of him: nobody forced him out of the Commons. Osborne left of his own accord.0 -
Don't worry, YS.YellowSubmarine said:Anyway in the last 18 hours my heart of Obsidian has melted slightly. I'm going to start praying Theresa May. I've never prayed for a politician before. I can't rationalise it but there seems something it uniquely tragic about her. She may be an evil old Banshee who ran an election campaign telling me I wasn't properly British but ...
It's a bit like writing an Amnesty International letter for a hideous murderer on the grounds of principle of the Death Penalty. She may utterly deserve what's coming too her and it will be hilarious. But nevertheless human beings deserve a core of compassion that escaped me yesterday. I will ask Our Lady of Lewisham to watch over her.
As soon as you gave unqualified backing to the EU Commission for the Spanish Government’s dreadful repression in Catalonia, you could sink no lower.0 -
In fairness they had a much simpler message to advance.TheScreamingEagles said:
Blame Mrs May, no one had a good campaign thanks to her.Tykejohnno said:
He's cr@p,look at the disastrous interviews at the General election.TheScreamingEagles said:
Ruth Davidson and the Scons has an excellent campaign as they ran their own campaign0 -
This 'TMay' chat from the OP is lifting0
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Hard/WTO Brexit.Slackbladder said:
Can anyone answer the question to me what happens if we vote no in that referendum?logical_song said:
"The LDs demand we stay in the EU despite a legal referendum voting to leave."CD13 said:Mr Observer,
I agree with you, this is the worst Government and Opposition I can remember. A dim, hard- left Trot with an inflexible mind, and a woman lacking confidence, political ability or judgement.
BTW, yesterday at Conference was irrelevant. She had a cough, a nutter in the crowd made a childish gesture, and a set misbehaved. Which ones were her fault? None of them.
Catalonia receives sympathy for holding an illegal referendum and wishing for freedom from the larger state. The LDs demand we stay in the EU despite a legal referendum voting to leave. And they call themselves Democrats.
Vote for NOTA!
That's factually incorrect.
As I understand it they want a new referendum on the deal once it has been agreed between the UK and EU. You can disagree with that, but they are asking for MORE democracy.
So roughly where we’re headed for now.0 -
Did the election of Donald Trump pass you by completely?Monksfield said:
As for Boris, the guy has repeatedly shown himself unfit to run a whelk stall. He's derided by virtually the whole world. If he gets the top job, we'll be ostracised, a global laughing stock.0 -
Investigations, if properly conducted, can be justified into historic claims . An approach which instructs investigators to refer to complainants as victims, believe them before any corroboration is found, and presume it us true unless the accused proves otherwise, is not the answer. The Guardian report woukd seem to indicate the police in thus case did just that.TheScreamingEagles said:
Jimmy Savile says hello.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. F, quite. There's a spotlight on politicians but not policies, more money can earnt with far less hassle elsewhere, and any deviation of thought is a 'split'. Political journalists are generally rubbish.
Mr. kle/Mr. F, quite. But old white guys don't benefit from investigations being culturally insensitive.0 -
So, what would be the point in the referendum given that the lib dems (and remainers) think that any deal is better than no deal?TheScreamingEagles said:
Hard/WTO Brexit.Slackbladder said:
Can anyone answer the question to me what happens if we vote no in that referendum?logical_song said:
"The LDs demand we stay in the EU despite a legal referendum voting to leave."CD13 said:Mr Observer,
I agree with you, this is the worst Government and Opposition I can remember. A dim, hard- left Trot with an inflexible mind, and a woman lacking confidence, political ability or judgement.
BTW, yesterday at Conference was irrelevant. She had a cough, a nutter in the crowd made a childish gesture, and a set misbehaved. Which ones were her fault? None of them.
Catalonia receives sympathy for holding an illegal referendum and wishing for freedom from the larger state. The LDs demand we stay in the EU despite a legal referendum voting to leave. And they call themselves Democrats.
Vote for NOTA!
That's factually incorrect.
As I understand it they want a new referendum on the deal once it has been agreed between the UK and EU. You can disagree with that, but they are asking for MORE democracy.
So roughly where we’re headed for now.
If thats what the referendum is of course.0 -
Depends whet the question is.Slackbladder said:
Can anyone answer the question to me what happens if we vote no in that referendum?logical_song said:
"The LDs demand we stay in the EU despite a legal referendum voting to leave."CD13 said:Mr Observer,
I agree with you, this is the worst Government and Opposition I can remember. A dim, hard- left Trot with an inflexible mind, and a woman lacking confidence, political ability or judgement.
BTW, yesterday at Conference was irrelevant. She had a cough, a nutter in the crowd made a childish gesture, and a set misbehaved. Which ones were her fault? None of them.
Catalonia receives sympathy for holding an illegal referendum and wishing for freedom from the larger state. The LDs demand we stay in the EU despite a legal referendum voting to leave. And they call themselves Democrats.
Vote for NOTA!
That's factually incorrect.
As I understand it they want a new referendum on the deal once it has been agreed between the UK and EU. You can disagree with that, but they are asking for MORE democracy.
Could be:
Do you
a) Accept the deal negotiated by HMG and the EU. (Alternatively do you want to crash out to WTO rules)
b) Instruct HMG to withdraw A50.0 -
What the Tories will need is a PM who can do passion,think on their feet and be bold with policies against corbyn at the next General election.TheScreamingEagles said:
Blame Mrs May, no one had a good campaign thanks to her.Tykejohnno said:
He's cr@p,look at the disastrous interviews at the General election.TheScreamingEagles said:
Ruth Davidson and the Scons has an excellent campaign as they ran their own campaign
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Starmer?DavidL said:
I agree but it is only recently that we had DC as PM and GO as Chancellor. As grown up a government as I can recall, if not without its petty moments. The three most obviously capable people in the country to lead the country (excluding DC), Osborne, Balls and Davidson are not even in the House of Commons. Its grim.eek said:
24 hour news killed politics for a lot of potential people. As others continually say there is more (potentially a lot more) money for far less hassle elsewhere...DavidL said:
The Guardian piece linked to on the last thread was truly excellent. "Two drunks fighting in a puddle" . The lack of insight in each party behind the writer's pertinent question, "why are we not murdering this lot?" was painfully exposed.MikeSmithson said:
Heath and the latter day Wilson wasn't a great choice in 74 but it was better than this. An increasingly demented Thatcher or Kinnock in 87 wasn't great either. But its not easy to think of a time when our leadership choices were so totally inadequate.0 -
Osborne had his chance. He could have stood for the leadership when Cameron resigned. He didn't. Moaning about what happens after is a bit like setting a house on fire, refusing to put it out, walking away and then moaning about the ashes.kle4 said:
Personal - he said he wanted her chopped up in bags in his freezer.his obvious hatred undermines whatever true points he makesJonathanD said:
A personal vendetta or just Osborne recognising the damage she's doing to the Tory party and trying to stop it?kle4 said:
That's where he list my sympathy, and his apparently personal vindictiveNess is unnecessary, though like others I agreed the way may fired him was not needed at the time. He's responsible for his personal vendetta, butv she didn't need to make such a big enemy.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. L, Osborne's own damn fault.
And for those who cite May's unnecessarily harsh treatment of him: nobody forced him out of the Commons. Osborne left of his own accord.0 -
Not that I’m in favour of such a referendum, but I’d make it a multi option referendum.Slackbladder said:
So, what would be the point in the referendum given that the lib dems (and remainers) think that any deal is better than no deal?TheScreamingEagles said:
Hard/WTO Brexit.Slackbladder said:
Can anyone answer the question to me what happens if we vote no in that referendum?logical_song said:
"The LDs demand we stay in the EU despite a legal referendum voting to leave."CD13 said:Mr Observer,
I agree with you, this is the worst Government and Opposition I can remember. A dim, hard- left Trot with an inflexible mind, and a woman lacking confidence, political ability or judgement.
BTW, yesterday at Conference was irrelevant. She had a cough, a nutter in the crowd made a childish gesture, and a set misbehaved. Which ones were her fault? None of them.
Catalonia receives sympathy for holding an illegal referendum and wishing for freedom from the larger state. The LDs demand we stay in the EU despite a legal referendum voting to leave. And they call themselves Democrats.
Vote for NOTA!
That's factually incorrect.
As I understand it they want a new referendum on the deal once it has been agreed between the UK and EU. You can disagree with that, but they are asking for MORE democracy.
So roughly where we’re headed for now.
If thats what the referendum is of course.
A ) Remain on our current terms
B ) Leave on the proposed deal
C ) Leave no matter what, replete with WTO Brexit
Conducted under AV of course.0
