The article posted by Southam by Rafael Behr makes an interesting early point on the way Ed Miliband was depicted. It didn't help that those on the very right of Labour also participated in characterising Miliband's beliefs in a similar way the right wing press did. The reality is Ed was never a full on hard leftie like Corbyn, but that didn't stop some people acting as if his premiership would spell the great doom of Britain and how he was to bring back full on socialism. In failing to engage with the Soft Left at a more appropriate level, those on the right of Labour especially only enabled the alienation and weakness they now feel within Labour. I feel had the Labour right worked with the Soft Left they would be in a much more stronger position now. Likewise, the Right (Conservatives) silly characterisations of the Soft Left have now left them in a situation where their valid criticisms of Corbyn do not reach the audience it really needs to.
I still can't believe the Tories (and their media cheerleaders) genuinely believed Miliband's Labour was a "lurch to the left" and "quasi-Marxism" just because he said energy companies should charge more reasonable rates.
Isn't it the case that the Tories and their rightwing press always portray any potential Labour government as the-end-of-civilisation-as-we-know-it? Remember the 'New Labour, New Danger' ads showing Tony Blair with devil eyes?
They have cried wolf far too often and diminished their message as a result.
Its the mirror of 'vote Conservative and the NHS will be closed down'.
I imagine it keeps the cheerleaders happy.
Yes, but when a real threat and danger like Corbyn comes along the attack lines don't work so well...
Our politicians deal in bribes and fear rather than rational discussion based on knowledge.
Earlier today we had a short conversation. I suggested that a parallel you had drawn between Thatcher and Corbyn was invalid. I backed this with examples and asked if you had any counter points, emphasising that the one I most often heard was not accurate so not to waste time dealing with that. You replied 'you make my point for me.' I was puzzled by this as I certainly hadn't, and asked for clarification. You then made a pretty abusive post in reply - which was liked by the egregious Nick Palmer, whose visceral loathing of me for calling him out on some of his more embarrassing past mis-statements is well known and with whom I do not deal directly any more because I consider slanging matches with him to be pointless - saying that I accuse anyone I disagree with of being wrong and therefore I was an unpleasant person and in your words 'you wouldn't want me in your cabinet.'
Leaving aside the non sequitur, and fact that obviously I would not disagree with somebody if I thought they were right, I am still at something at a loss to know why you behaved as you did. You made an inaccurate parallel followed by a strange comment and then got personal. I just wondered why you had done this. And indeed whether you wanted to apologise for it.
It's not a problem either way - your opinion is frankly a matter of indifference to me. However this site has been getting quite spiteful at times lately and it would be a shame if you were to join in.
The point I was making was that people with extreme views are often very bad at politics. Thatcher and Corbyn are exceptions. They are both very successful but struggle to find others from their own section of the spectrum to work with. Your reply was to praise Thatcher and denigrate everyone else and interpret what I said as a criticism of her. You are entitled to your view. But it was a perfect example of why highly partisan people are hard work in teams. If you are upset I apologise - I don't think you would want to be in my cabinet anyway.
I wonder when Boris is going to realise that the EU are not going to give the UK a good deal and he will declare it is better to stay within the EU than create avoidable unemployment by going through with Brexit. After all if the Greece, Ireland, Spain and Portugal cannot get anything but repayable loans in the Eurozone, what chance have the UK of getting what they want by walking away...
I don't think the US are going to offer any decent trade deals or anybody else in a short period given what they have done to Bombardier in the states today. Quitting the EU in the current international environment is like walking out of a door from the top of Canary Wharf and hoping you will float downwards to a soft landing.
The way a lot of American Conservatives talk about this man, you'd think he was God. Also that clip of him linked talking about equality, and then seeing his dissent in that case. JFC you can't make it up.
Sounds remarkable in the face of blatant and extreme racism in the jury making the judgement seem unsound, I wonder at the legalities the dissenters feel apply to mean that is irrelevant.
I don't understand the thought processes of some of these very, very right wing American Conservatives like Alito, Thomas and Gorsuch.
The article posted by Southam by Rafael Behr makes an interesting early point on the way Ed Miliband was depicted. It didn't help that those on the very right of Labour also participated in characterising Miliband's beliefs in a similar way the right wing press did. The reality is Ed was never a full on hard leftie like Corbyn, but that didn't stop some people acting as if his premiership would spell the great doom of Britain and how he was to bring back full on socialism. In failing to engage with the Soft Left at a more appropriate level, those on the right of Labour especially only enabled the alienation and weakness they now feel within Labour. I feel had the Labour right worked with the Soft Left they would be in a much more stronger position now. Likewise, the Right (Conservatives) silly characterisations of the Soft Left have now left them in a situation where their valid criticisms of Corbyn do not reach the audience it really needs to.
I still can't believe the Tories (and their media cheerleaders) genuinely believed Miliband's Labour was a "lurch to the left" and "quasi-Marxism" just because he said energy companies should charge more reasonable rates.
Isn't it the case that the Tories and their rightwing press always portray any potential Labour government as the-end-of-civilisation-as-we-know-it? Remember the 'New Labour, New Danger' ads showing Tony Blair with devil eyes?
They have cried wolf far too often and diminished their message as a result.
Its the mirror of 'vote Conservative and the NHS will be closed down'.
I imagine it keeps the cheerleaders happy.
Yes, but when a real threat and danger like Corbyn comes along the attack lines don't work so well...
Our politicians deal in bribes and fear rather than rational discussion based on knowledge.
Bad politics drives out the good.
We enable it. They give us what we want.
Indeed.
We want it all, we want it now and we want someone else to pay for it.
The article posted by Southam by Rafael Behr makes an interesting early point on the way Ed Miliband was depicted. It didn't help that those on the very right of Labour also participated in characterising Miliband's beliefs in a similar way the right wing press did. The reality is Ed was never a full on hard leftie like Corbyn, but that didn't stop some people acting as if his premiership would spell the great doom of Britain and how he was to bring back full on socialism. In failing to engage with the Soft Left at a more appropriate level, those on the right of Labour especially only enabled the alienation and weakness they now feel within Labour. I feel had the Labour right worked with the Soft Left they would be in a much more stronger position now. Likewise, the Right (Conservatives) silly characterisations of the Soft Left have now left them in a situation where their valid criticisms of Corbyn do not reach the audience it really needs to.
I still can't believe the Tories (and their media cheerleaders) genuinely believed Miliband's Labour was a "lurch to the left" and "quasi-Marxism" just because he said energy companies should charge more reasonable rates.
Isn't it the case that the Tories and their rightwing press always portray any potential Labour government as the-end-of-civilisation-as-we-know-it? Remember the 'New Labour, New Danger' ads showing Tony Blair with devil eyes?
They have cried wolf far too often and diminished their message as a result.
The idea that Dan Hannan understands anything about trade negotiations (or any business other than self-promotion) doesn't have any evidence to support it.
Absolutely nobody is saying Daniel Hannan is an ill informed self promoting tart.
He certainly understands a hell of a lot more about democracy than either of you ever will.
No he doesn't.
Well you read some of his books on the subject and point me in the direction of some of yours and we can compare notes....
I believe Dan Brown wrote books, too...
Not on the subject of democracy which is the point at hand.
The article posted by Southam by Rafael Behr makes an interesting early point on the way Ed Miliband was depicted. It didn't help that those on the very right of Labour also participated in characterising Miliband's beliefs in a similar way the right wing press did. The reality is Ed was never a full on hard leftie like Corbyn, but that didn't stop some people acting as if his premiership would spell the great doom of Britain and how he was to bring back full on socialism. In failing to engage with the Soft Left at a more appropriate level, those on the right of Labour especially only enabled the alienation and weakness they now feel within Labour. I feel had the Labour right worked with the Soft Left they would be in a much more stronger position now. Likewise, the Right (Conservatives) silly characterisations of the Soft Left have now left them in a situation where their valid criticisms of Corbyn do not reach the audience it really needs to.
I still can't believe the Tories (and their media cheerleaders) genuinely believed Miliband's Labour was a "lurch to the left" and "quasi-Marxism" just because he said energy companies should charge more reasonable rates.
Isn't it the case that the Tories and their rightwing press always portray any potential Labour government as the-end-of-civilisation-as-we-know-it? Remember the 'New Labour, New Danger' ads showing Tony Blair with devil eyes?
They have cried wolf far too often and diminished their message as a result.
Quitting the EU in the current international environment is like walking out of a door from the top of Canary Wharf and hoping you will float downwards to a soft landing.
Remainers will never concede that there is a right time to leave the EU. Juncker could be installed in Buckingham Palace and they would still be warning about the danger of leaving.
If merely leaving the EU is the biggest problem we face in the next few decades we will be extremely fortunate. I think there are much greater challenges to be faced.
The article posted by Southam by Rafael Behr makes an interesting early point on the way Ed Miliband was depicted. It didn't help that those on the very right of Labour also participated in characterising Miliband's beliefs in a similar way the right wing press did. The reality is Ed was never a full on hard leftie like Corbyn, but that didn't stop some people acting as if his premiership would spell the great doom of Britain and how he was to bring back full on socialism. In failing to engage with the Soft Left at a more appropriate level, those on the right of Labour especially only enabled the alienation and weakness they now feel within Labour. I feel had the Labour right worked with the Soft Left they would be in a much more stronger position now. Likewise, the Right (Conservatives) silly characterisations of the Soft Left have now left them in a situation where their valid criticisms of Corbyn do not reach the audience it really needs to.
I still can't believe the Tories (and their media cheerleaders) genuinely believed Miliband's Labour was a "lurch to the left" and "quasi-Marxism" just because he said energy companies should charge more reasonable rates.
Isn't it the case that the Tories and their rightwing press always portray any potential Labour government as the-end-of-civilisation-as-we-know-it? Remember the 'New Labour, New Danger' ads showing Tony Blair with devil eyes?
They have cried wolf far too often and diminished their message as a result.
Its the mirror of 'vote Conservative and the NHS will be closed down'.
I imagine it keeps the cheerleaders happy.
Yes, but when a real threat and danger like Corbyn comes along the attack lines don't work so well...
Our politicians deal in bribes and fear rather than rational discussion based on knowledge.
Bad politics drives out the good.
Agreed.
It is really no surprise when bribes and fear are the whole basis of our party political system.
The idea that Dan Hannan understands anything about trade negotiations (or any business other than self-promotion) doesn't have any evidence to support it.
Absolutely nobody is saying Daniel Hannan is an ill informed self promoting tart.
He certainly understands a hell of a lot more about democracy than either of you ever will.
No he doesn't.
Well you read some of his books on the subject and point me in the direction of some of yours and we can compare notes....
I believe Dan Brown wrote books, too...
Not on the subject of democracy which is the point at hand.
I just opened a preview of one of his books on Amazon and stumbled upon this sentence in the introduction: "This book tells the story of freedom - which is to say, it tells the story of the Anglosphere."
At least nobody could accuse him of not knowing his audience...
The article posted by Southam by Rafael Behr makes an interesting early point on the way Ed Miliband was depicted. It didn't help that those on the very right of Labour also participated in characterising Miliband's beliefs in a similar way the right wing press did. The reality is Ed was never a full on hard leftie like Corbyn, but that didn't stop some people acting as if his premiership would spell the great doom of Britain and how he was to bring back full on socialism. In failing to engage with the Soft Left at a more appropriate level, those on the right of Labour especially only enabled the alienation and weakness they now feel within Labour. I feel had the Labour right worked with the Soft Left they would be in a much more stronger position now. Likewise, the Right (Conservatives) silly characterisations of the Soft Left have now left them in a situation where their valid criticisms of Corbyn do not reach the audience it really needs to.
I still can't believe the Tories (and their media cheerleaders) genuinely believed Miliband's Labour was a "lurch to the left" and "quasi-Marxism" just because he said energy companies should charge more reasonable rates.
Isn't it the case that the Tories and their rightwing press always portray any potential Labour government as the-end-of-civilisation-as-we-know-it? Remember the 'New Labour, New Danger' ads showing Tony Blair with devil eyes?
They have cried wolf far too often and diminished their message as a result.
Is the NHS still in existence?
Barely
As it survived the underfunding from Clem and Nye I don't think its in too much danger now:
' When the NHS was launched in 1948, it had a budget of £437 million (roughly £15 billion at today’s value). For 2015/16, the overall NHS budget was around £116.4 billion. '
To all who responded to my comment yesterday evening regarding the comments on this site: many thanks. I appreciate the responses. I will try to post more. But, by way of schoolboy error, I have spent half an hour this evening trying and failing to comment on several persons' posts. If my senility allows me to do so, I will post, but at the moment I am simply hitting a brick wall and cannot work out what to do...
Comments
England all-rounders are an colourful bunch.
I don't think the US are going to offer any decent trade deals or anybody else in a short period given what they have done to Bombardier in the states today. Quitting the EU in the current international environment is like walking out of a door from the top of Canary Wharf and hoping you will float downwards to a soft landing.
We want it all, we want it now and we want someone else to pay for it.
If merely leaving the EU is the biggest problem we face in the next few decades we will be extremely fortunate. I think there are much greater challenges to be faced.
NEW THREAD
' When the NHS was launched in 1948, it had a budget of £437 million (roughly £15 billion at today’s value). For 2015/16, the overall NHS budget was around £116.4 billion. '
http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/thenhs/about/Pages/overview.aspx