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  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,886
    welshowl said:

    Everton lack a centre forward till the January window?
    Vince Cable might be right?
    Ed Balls has really got gangnam style?
    Donald Trump is a North Korean agent?
    The new tenner still has animal fat?
    Len Goodman is irreplaceable?
    The AV thread was actually popular and provoked well informed civil debate?
    England have no opener for Aussie conditions to partner Cook?
    #1 Wrong! Oumar Niasse...superstar hiding in plain sight
  • Example?
    Sweden, for one.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,938
    edited September 2017

    May brought in Damian Green as de facto deputy prime minister because chief whip told her 4 senior ministers were plotting to grab her job

    Roman style triumvirate plan. Boris = Julius Caesar, SAS man DD = military man Pompey. Hammond = money bags Crassus

    And as a member I would not vote for any of them. The old guard need to be relegated by new younger blood
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464
    dixiedean said:

    #1 Wrong! Oumar Niasse...superstar hiding in plain sight
    And as a fellow Blue thank God say I. You note my first scary thought that came to mind? Priorities!
  • But they have prestige and influence, the only two to have won a majority for the Tories in 25 years, Feldman was a fabulous party chairman, Ruth Davidson is a bona fide election winner, and Osborne, greatest political strategist of our time, helped take the Tory party from 198 MPs to 331 MPs in the process.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,304
    edited September 2017
    About 98%, give or take the margin of error.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,183

    And as a member I would not vote for any of them. The old guard need to be 7relegated by new younger blood
    I don't know - all would be better than Rudd.
  • JohnO said:

    But they won’t, will they? You know that, I know that.
    They should though.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,183

    But they have prestige and influence, the only two to have won a majority for the Tories in 25 years, Feldman was a fabulous party chairman, Ruth Davidson is a bona fide election winner, and Osborne, greatest political strategist of our time, helped take the Tory party from 198 MPs to 331 MPs in the process.
    No, they think they have influence. Big difference. Huge.
  • But they have prestige and influence, the only two to have won a majority for the Tories in 25 years, Feldman was a fabulous party chairman, Ruth Davidson is a bona fide election winner, and Osborne, greatest political strategist of our time, helped take the Tory party from 198 MPs to 331 MPs in the process.
    You and Osborne, the man who could have been PM and lost it with spite and schoolboy antics.

    Ruth is the only credible leader on that list and she is not leaving Scotland
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,304

    And as a member I would not vote for any of them. The old guard need to be relegated by new younger blood
    Of course and TSE knows this full well, he’s just being contrarian tonight.
  • JohnO said:
    I did a Tory leadership poll yesterday for YouGov, was intrigued to see your boy Dominic Raab on the list.

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/911160675241689088
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,814
    Conservative esprit de corpse really coming together tonight!
  • JohnO said:

    Of course and TSE knows this full well, he’s just being contrarian tonight.
    Sorry, that was from Tim Shipman's twitter feed/his new book, the sequel to All Out War.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,304

    They should though.
    Don’t be daft. Johnson vs Davis??????!!!!! For pity’s sake...

  • Sorry, that was from Tim Shipman's twitter feed/his new book, the sequel to All Out War.
    Wants to sell books says it all
  • Mortimer said:

    No, they think they have influence. Big difference. Huge.
    There was a reason Theresa May begged David Cameron to give his public support to the DUP deal to reassure Tory MPs.

    He still has huge influence on a large segment of the PCP.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,304

    I did a Tory leadership poll yesterday for YouGov, was intrigued to see your boy Dominic Raab on the list.

    https://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/911160675241689088
    As he should be for 2020-1, but there must be others who don’t feature on that ridiculous list.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,886
    welshowl said:

    And as a fellow Blue thank God say I. You note my first scary thought that came to mind? Priorities!
    Brought in as a last, desperate throw of the dice, by a failing Martinez. Thrown into a team bereft of confidence, and unsurprisingly was not an instant hit. Denied a locker, sent out on loan, move to Palace fell through. Did he sulk or go on strike? No he played for the under-23's and sat with the fans at the United game. What a top man! Give him his own dressing room, and a couple of servants. Redemption is possible for us all!
    COYB!
    Although knowing Evertonians we'll be on his back when he doesn't get a hat-trick against Burnley.
  • There was a reason Theresa May begged David Cameron to give his public support to the DUP deal to reassure Tory MPs.

    He still has huge influence on a large segment of the PCP.
    I would agree with you on that but at least he has behaved well since leaving goverment instead of childish and vindictive Osborne. Is Osborne going to the conference by the way
  • JohnO said:

    Don’t be daft. Johnson vs Davis??????!!!!! For pity’s sake...

    Boris will pull out, again, Gove can do his duty again.

    DD is a tit.

    Nothing to worry about it, it'll be fine, I hope.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,171

    Sweden, for one.
    The lesson from 1930s Germany is that trying to accommodate an extreme right-wing party leads swiftly to the fall of democracy.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464
    dixiedean said:

    Brought in as a last, desperate throw of the dice, by a failing Martinez. Thrown into a team bereft of confidence, and unsurprisingly was not an instant hit. Denied a locker, sent out on loan, move to Palace fell through. Did he sulk or go on strike? No he played for the under-23's and sat with the fans at the United game. What a top man! Give him his own dressing room, and a couple of servants. Redemption is possible for us all!
    COYB!
    Although knowing Evertonians we'll be on his back when he doesn't get a hat-trick against Burnley.
    Yes, all of that! Truth is we're only probably a point behind par, if that, given who we've played, but goal difference is crap and so is goal scoring. If we get two wins from the next two, or even four points, I'll feel a bit better, but I have my doubts - the balance is wrong. Still we've bought a good goalie. Might need him.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 53,417
    edited September 2017
    JohnO said:

    Of course and TSE knows this full well, he’s just being contrarian tonight.
    TSE wants Vince to become PM :lol:
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,171
    FF43 said:

    Conservative esprit de corpse really coming together tonight!

    :lol:
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464

    TSE wants Vince to become PM :lol:
    Not a prayer. Not least because he's seat warmer for Jo Swinson.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,938
    edited September 2017
    McDonnell making an offer to Hammond if he does something on students interest rates and threshold.

    Good politics maybe but looks like he is trying to get out of their promise to students to scrap them altogether
  • SeanT said:

    The problem is the attitude of Muslims, ISLAM is what fucks up multiculti, with a side order of Roma thievery, and black Gangsta culture. But the main problem is islam, because it is inherently supremacist, and by definition cannot integrate.

    I predict a western race war with Islam within 30 years, unless that religion miraculously enlightens.

    The rest of us: white, brown, black, tartan, African, Brazilian, Alaskan, Japanese, Cornish, Canadian, Chinese, Aussie, will learn to rub along just fine. London is living proof of that.
    Don't forget Islam's extensive and varied "Eastern Front" - against India (Kashmir), China (Xinjiang), Burma (Arakan), Thailand (Pattani), Philippines (Mindanao), and Indonesia (eg. Sulawesi).
  • Boris will pull out, again, Gove can do his duty again.

    DD is a tit.

    Nothing to worry about it, it'll be fine, I hope.
    Sky reporting the story as at the morning after the election - the narrative has moved on
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,886
    welshowl said:

    Yes, all of that! Truth is we're only probably a point behind par, if that, given who we've played, but goal difference is crap and so is goal scoring. If we get two wins from the next two, or even four points, I'll feel a bit better, but I have my doubts - the balance is wrong. Still we've bought a good goalie. Might need him.
    Can't argue with any of that. Am relying on the fact that Koeman teams tend to start slowly and finish strongly. But we are such glass half-empty fans. Look at the stick Lukaku got. Poor first touch, lazy, doesn't pass, gives the ball away....just plays every game, never injured, gets kicked all over the park, never gets booked, plays one up front feeds off scraps, and bangs in 25 goals.
    Oh and Pickford could be the next Big Nev...No.1 for 15 years. Made a big save today at 1-0. We could have fallen apart then.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,814
    Those "demands" are designed to be as unhelpful as possible to Theresa May while not quite contradicting her positions.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464
    dixiedean said:

    Can't argue with any of that. Am relying on the fact that Koeman teams tend to start slowly and finish strongly. But we are such glass half-empty fans. Look at the stick Lukaku got. Poor first touch, lazy, doesn't pass, gives the ball away....just plays every game, never injured, gets kicked all over the park, never gets booked, plays one up front feeds off scraps, and bangs in 25 goals.
    Oh and Pickford could be the next Big Nev...No.1 for 15 years. Made a big save today at 1-0. We could have fallen apart then.
    Quite. My grandad was being glass half empty about your moniker in about 1929/30 so he told me at length in his old age!
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,370
    SeanT said:

    The problem is the attitude of Muslims, ISLAM is what fucks up multiculti, with a side order of Roma thievery, and black Gangsta culture. But the main problem is islam, because it is inherently supremacist, and by definition cannot integrate.

    I predict a western race war with Islam within 30 years, unless that religion miraculously enlightens.

    The rest of us: white, brown, black, tartan, African, Brazilian, Alaskan, Japanese, Cornish, Canadian, Chinese, Aussie, will learn to rub along just fine. London is living proof of that.
    I'm not sure. However good relations may be at a personal level, there does seem to be political antagonism between most White people and most people from ethnic minorities.
  • FF43 said:

    Those "demands" are designed to be as unhelpful as possible to Theresa May while not quite contradicting her positions.
    Boris will sway from side to side depending on his mood
  • The dynamic of the Tory Leadership will change now the time table of Brexit has changed. It wasn't worth a coup as she was going after Brexit and who else wants the job of delivering Brexit anyway ? Hang tight till Spring 2019. But now Brexit is taking till Spring 2021. Until the timetable slips further. So letting May carry the can and go for her own volition now involves a significantly longer wait. Anything could happen. And if she makes it till Spring 2021 she might decide she wants to fight 2022 anyway to redeem her historical standing. That's before what impact letting her stay has on Tory ratings is factored in. So if letting her finish Brexit is now too long a task and she has to go why wait till Spring 2019 ? Why wait another day. If a new leader must absorb the cost of delivering Brexit then why not let them shape Brexit ?

    May's leadership had reached equilibrium. She was finished but with a departure date settled that made logical sense and suited most folk even those who wanted her gone. But the slipping of the Brexit timetable yesterday by two years means that equilibrium has gone. We'll get fresh disturbance until we get a new equilibrium. She goes, her authority recovers somehow or a fresh date is agreed.
  • FF43 said:

    Those "demands" are designed to be as unhelpful as possible to Theresa May while not quite contradicting her positions.
    I'm starting to think it's a deliberate double act. This way he gets to appear to be the champion of the hard Brexiteers, heading off any challenge from the Rees-Mogg wing before it happens, but in reality he's fully on board with May.
  • The dynamic of the Tory Leadership will change now the time table of Brexit has changed. It wasn't worth a coup as she was going after Brexit and who else wants the job of delivering Brexit anyway ? Hang tight till Spring 2019. But now Brexit is taking till Spring 2021. Until the timetable slips further. So letting May carry the can and go for her own volition now involves a significantly longer wait. Anything could happen. And if she makes it till Spring 2021 she might decide she wants to fight 2022 anyway to redeem her historical standing. That's before what impact letting her stay has on Tory ratings is factored in. So if letting her finish Brexit is now too long a task and she has to go why wait till Spring 2019 ? Why wait another day. If a new leader must absorb the cost of delivering Brexit then why not let them shape Brexit ?

    May's leadership had reached equilibrium. She was finished but with a departure date settled that made logical sense and suited most folk even those who wanted her gone. But the slipping of the Brexit timetable yesterday by two years means that equilibrium has gone. We'll get fresh disturbance until we get a new equilibrium. She goes, her authority recovers somehow or a fresh date is agreed.

    I have no doubt that TM will be in post until post Brexit, even 2021, but she will not fight the next election
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,886
    welshowl said:

    Quite. My grandad was being glass half empty about your moniker in about 1929/30 so he told me at length in his old age!
    LOL. I can well believe it!
  • I'm starting to think it's a deliberate double act. This way he gets to appear to be the champion of the hard Brexiteers, heading off any challenge from the Rees-Mogg wing before it happens, but in reality he's fully on board with May.
    Blimey - I agree with you William
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,171
    Sean_F said:

    I'm not sure. However good relations may be at a personal level, there does seem to be political antagonism between most White people and most people from ethnic minorities.
    Massively sweeping statement and massively wrong imo. Where's the evidence?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,814

    Boris will sway from side to side depending on his mood
    I don't think so. That demand list is highly calculated. I am not quite sure what Boris' gameplan is, except I think he wants to move quickly and that he sees time being against his prospects of being PM. So he is constantly pushing the boundaries. But it sort of looks like he doesn't want to be sacked. Johnson is very disloyal at the moment but doesn't quite go to the brink.
  • The lesson from 1930s Germany is that trying to accommodate an extreme right-wing party leads swiftly to the fall of democracy.
    God, you really aren't listening, are you?

    Where do you think we'll end up if voters wishes to put a stop to mass immigration are consistently ignored?
  • Sean_F said:

    I'm not sure. However good relations may be at a personal level, there does seem to be political antagonism between most White people and most people from ethnic minorities.
    That won't end until we get past "diversity" quotas, and nonsense like positive discrimination.

    Trever Phillips is an excellent example of someone who gets it.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,370

    Massively sweeping statement and massively wrong imo. Where's the evidence?
    Differing attitudes towards the criminal justice system are the obvious example.
  • SeanT said:

    Osborne really fucked up. Petulant twat. He could have taken his resignation with grace, worked the backbenches, shown some adaptability to Brexit, and he'd now be favourite for Tory leader, and PM, in 2022.

    Instead he went off in a huff and became the editor of a silly free-sheet, venting his spleen and thereby ruining his political career.

    Sad.
    Osborne can't help himself.

    And he'd have given us a BINO that'd make Hammond look like Jacob Rees-Mogg.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,814

    I'm starting to think it's a deliberate double act. This way he gets to appear to be the champion of the hard Brexiteers, heading off any challenge from the Rees-Mogg wing before it happens, but in reality he's fully on board with May.
    Interesting theory. Could be.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,171

    I'm starting to think it's a deliberate double act. This way he gets to appear to be the champion of the hard Brexiteers, heading off any challenge from the Rees-Mogg wing before it happens, but in reality he's fully on board with May.
    It's an intriguing thought. Presumably if true the pay-back for BoJo would be TMay's support for him as annointed successor when she finally steps down.

    One of many flies in the ointment for this idea is that you think he'd be a bit cuatious about promises of support from fellow cabinet members given recent history. (Then again it is Boris, so who knows?)
  • I'm starting to think it's a deliberate double act. This way he gets to appear to be the champion of the hard Brexiteers, heading off any challenge from the Rees-Mogg wing before it happens, but in reality he's fully on board with May.
    Are you feeling ok this evening?

    Surely, he's working on Juncker's behalf to bring the Brexit delusion to a head as soon as possible, so he can gain the Tory crown, before gloriously taking us into the Euro and forming up British troops at the centre of the new EU army?
  • " Free to *sign* Trade Deals " The EU are never going to let us do that during a Status Quo transition when the Status Quo says we can't do our own deals. Nor should they lets us undercut them like that. The " transition " is about giving us time to do those deals as the A50 period isn't long enough and as an aside the pressure will mount for the transition to be longer than 2 years.

    So Boris is using the classic tactic of asking for at least one thing he knows May literally can't deliver.
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    FF43 said:

    Interesting theory. Could be.
    That Hammond was prepared to support him as leader after the election suggests he is not as much of a head banger as he projects...
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,814
    JonathanD said:

    That Hammond was prepared to support him as leader after the election suggests he is not as much of a head banger as he projects...
    He isn't. He is only interested in becoming Prime Minister. Johnson doesn't have a moral fibre in his body, which makes him a little fascinating in a way. Nevertheless Johnson has thrown his lot in with the headbangers and he is nothing if not smart as far as his own prospects are concerned.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,171
    edited September 2017
    Sean_F said:

    Differing attitudes towards the criminal justice system are the obvious example.
    Those align to wealth, education and social grouping much more than ethnicity... Plenty of white people in deprived areas lack respect for the criminal justice system.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464
    edited September 2017

    That won't end until we get past "diversity" quotas, and nonsense like positive discrimination.

    Trever Phillips is an excellent example of someone who gets it.
    Racism is bonkers of itself of course. We are all human and go back 20000 years and even those who are white were probably brown as we emerged from Africa and hadn't yet adapted to weak sunshine in Europe.

    One would hope that given time newcomers would integrate totally in a similar way to impoverished Jewish tailors in the East End in the 1890's who now have descendants who are dentists in Finchley.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,171

    That won't end until we get past "diversity" quotas, and nonsense like positive discrimination.

    Trever Phillips is an excellent example of someone who gets it.
    IIRC Positive discrimination has been, and remains, unlawful in this country. That doesn't stop the DM mythologising about it of course.
  • IIRC Positive discrimination has been, and remains, unlawful in this country. That doesn't stop the DM mythologising about it of course.
    I'm afraid it's a fact of modern life.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,594
    News tonight full of Corbyn accusing the Tories of being 'the party of the rich', Wes Streeting praising Khan for banning Uber and Labour moderates signing a letter demanding Corbyn commit to permanent membership of the single market and customs union rather than replicating the government's transition period.

    I don't see any of that winning over many of the 42% who voted Tory last time so I think Opinium is in the right ball park
  • welshowl said:

    Racism is bonkers of itself of course. We are all human and go back 20000 years and even those who are white were probably brown as we emerged from Africa and hadn't yet adapted to weak sunshine in Europe.

    One would hope that given time newcomers would integrate totally in a similar way to impoverished Jewish tailors in the East End in the 1890's who now have descendants who are dentists in Finchley.
    Indeed so, but not whilst hand-wringing white liberals are teaching young ethnic minority children that Britain's past is nothing but to be ashamed of, whilst encouraging them to embrace a heritage wholly based on their own (perceived) ethnic roots.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,171
    welshowl said:

    Racism is bonkers of itself of course. We are all human and go back 20000 years and even those who are white were probably brown as we emerged from Africa and hadn't yet adapted to weak sunshine in Europe.

    One would hope that given time newcomers would integrate totally in a similar way to impoverished Jewish tailors in the East End in the 1890's who now have descendants who are dentists in Finchley.
    Agreed, integration is key but that is clearly easier for 2nd and subsequent generation immigrants (we are all after all nth generation immigrants!).

    Interesting that there are ex-pat British enclaves in France and Spain who seem to find it very hard to integrate into their chosen destination's societies (or acquire the local language).
  • The sharp up tick in non white Britons in the last census was driven by a sharp uptick in mixed race births driven in turn by a sharp uptick in inter racial relationships. The paradox is the changing demographic is a symptom of I. In percentage terms post wind rush integration was linear but inter marriage will be exponential. We'll see but I suspect the effect by the next census will be stark and of course irreversible.

    As an aside and at risk of being Uber to SeanT's Black Cab driver I was an an exhibition opening this afternoon. There was a black guy there with a frankly fantastic arse. It really distracted me from the Skeletal exhibits. He was with a white girl. Here in deepest leaverstan even seeing a non white face 6 or 7 years ago was sufficiently unusual to be noticeable. Now it's unusual but you don't really think about it. A mixed race couple is though and I guess they were part of the large out of own contingent who were there for the big launch. But of course almost anywhere else in the UK a mixed race couple would be like remarking on the presence of pigeons.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,171

    I'm afraid it's a fact of modern life.
    Any examples? (Or did you mean the DM mythologising part? :smile:)
  • Any examples? (Or did you mean the DM mythologising part? :smile:)
    They masquerade as diversity targets. Most firms (including my own) have them.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,171

    Indeed so, but not whilst hand-wringing white liberals are teaching young ethnic minority children that Britain's past is nothing but to be ashamed of, whilst encouraging them to embrace a heritage wholly based on their own (perceived) ethnic roots.
    You're confusing what you read in the DM with the real world :lol:
  • You're confusing what you read in the DM with the real world :lol:
    You need to get beyond just shouting "Daily Mail" whenever you encounter an argument you don't want to engage with.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,171

    The sharp up tick in non white Britons in the last census was driven by a sharp uptick in mixed race births driven in turn by a sharp uptick in inter racial relationships. The paradox is the changing demographic is a symptom of I. In percentage terms post wind rush integration was linear but inter marriage will be exponential. We'll see but I suspect the effect by the next census will be stark and of course irreversible.

    As an aside and at risk of being Uber to SeanT's Black Cab driver I was an an exhibition opening this afternoon. There was a black guy there with a frankly fantastic arse. It really distracted me from the Skeletal exhibits. He was with a white girl. Here in deepest leaverstan even seeing a non white face 6 or 7 years ago was sufficiently unusual to be noticeable. Now it's unusual but you don't really think about it. A mixed race couple is though and I guess they were part of the large out of own contingent who were there for the big launch. But of course almost anywhere else in the UK a mixed race couple would be like remarking on the presence of pigeons.

    A great post!

    No doubt the ancient Britons worried about the influx of Angles and Saxons many years ago. But who gives a shit now that the vast majority of us are a mixture of both?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,171

    You need to get beyond just shouting "Daily Mail" whenever you encounter an argument you don't want to engage with.
    Haha! I will bear that in mind. What's your evidence to support the argument?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,171

    They masquerade as diversity targets. Most firms (including my own) have them.
    Diversity targets and positive discrimination are completely diffrent things. Can you not see the difference?!
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,464

    A great post!

    No doubt the ancient Britons worried about the influx of Angles and Saxons many years ago. But who gives a shit now that the vast majority of us are a mixture of both?
    Plaid Cymru possibly?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,814
    edited September 2017
    Further Johnsonian weirdness where he is concocting a story (in the Sun and the Mail - so obviously spun) where he saved the country from a five year transition arrangement being imposed by Philip Hammond.
  • Diversity targets and positive discrimination are completely diffrent things. Can you not see the difference?!
    Clearly you have a problem with reading: positive discrimination can (and does) easily masquerade under diversity targets when visible progress needs to be made.
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469

    They sent out an email.
    Really? Did they have permission, or is it in the small small print of the app? Or, and it is possible, when whoever opened the email or click open the sms, that it automatically assumed the person signed the petition? This sounds as if Uber had everything in place before the excitement happened.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,814
    OchEye said:


    Really? Did they have permission, or is it in the small small print of the app? Or, and it is possible, when whoever opened the email or click open the sms, that it automatically assumed the person signed the petition? This sounds as if Uber had everything in place before the excitement happened.

    I think the main effect will be a profitable boost in publicity for Uber. It probably won't harm Khan.
  • Haha! I will bear that in mind. What's your evidence to support the argument?
    There's no evidence I could supply to you that you'd accept. You're not open to the argument.

    Your only interest is to find an angle through which you can dismiss it, and thus keep your mind closed but your prejudices reinforced.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,171

    Clearly you have a problem with reading: positive discrimination can (and does) easily masquerade under diversity targets when visible progress needs to be made.
    If it did, the company practising it would be breaking the law and should be taken to court.

    I work for a large national company, we have diversity targets, some we meet, most we're a bit off, some a long way short of. We can and do take positive action (e.g. to ensure we don't exclude candidates through unconscious bias). But positive discrimination is not allowed; it's as illegal as for example turning a candidate dwon on the basis of their gender or ethnicity. The targets are just that, targets not compulsory levels that have to be met. (Hence getting closer to the targets will take a long time.)
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469
    FF43 said:

    I think the main effect will be a profitable boost in publicity for Uber. It probably won't harm Khan.
    Probably, but it could just as easily turn into a Ratner/O'Leary moment for Uber. Especially if their business plans are put under the microscope of public scrutiny.
  • FF43 said:

    I think the main effect will be a profitable boost in publicity for Uber. It probably won't harm Khan.
    Reports tonight Khan received £30,000 from black cabs for his mayoral campaign.

    Conflict of interest
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,171

    There's no evidence I could supply to you that you'd accept. You're not open to the argument.

    Your only interest is to find an angle through which you can dismiss it, and thus keep your mind closed but your prejudices reinforced.
    My prejudice that positive discrimination is illegal and thus not widely practiced?
  • PaganPagan Posts: 259

    You are I believe a labour supporter, how are all woman short lists not a case of positive discrimination? Sorry you can't have this job you are the wrong gender seems a fair case for it to be honest.
  • The Uber petition was started by Uber it's self and they are ramping it on all their channels. The supporting statement is also entirely biased as you'd expect. Even if I agreed with it I *never* sign Change.org petitions as they spam you with emails asking you to " look " at other petitions for months after you sign one. I'd be interested to know what % of the 600K signatures are from Greater London.
  • The Uber petition was started by Uber it's self and they are ramping it on all their channels. The supporting statement is also entirely biased as you'd expect. Even if I agreed with it I *never* sign Change.org petitions as they spam you with emails asking you to " look " at other petitions for months after you sign one. I'd be interested to know what % of the 600K signatures are from Greater London.

    Change.org petitions for scores of causes and indeed my wife actively signs them on many issues.

    However as with all emails you can unsubscibe at any time.

    Also why shouldn't the Company fight for it's interests
  • PaganPagan Posts: 259
    Genuine question about the whole uber thing. One of the points people have made is that they dont crb check their drivers. Accepting for the moment that this is true do we have any evidence that crb checking of drivers has reduced crime per capita of taxi drivers?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,171
    edited September 2017
    Pagan said:

    You are I believe a labour supporter, how are all woman short lists not a case of positive discrimination? Sorry you can't have this job you are the wrong gender seems a fair case for it to be honest.
    It's a good example Pagan, which I confess I hadn't considered. I wouldn't condone all women shortlists but they are not illegal because they were explicitly allowed for in the 2010 Equality Act.

    So @Casino_Royale, I concede there is an instance of positive discrimination. (Obviously, it's not one that affects many people though)

    And on that lamentable defeat I am going to hit the sack!
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315

    Reports tonight Khan received £30,000 from black cabs for his mayoral campaign.

    Conflict of interest
    I expect black cab drivers are one of the strongest UKIP and Tory voting blocks in London. So I doubt it made much difference.
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    edited September 2017
    Pagan said:

    Genuine question about the whole uber thing. One of the points people have made is that they dont crb check their drivers. Accepting for the moment that this is true do we have any evidence that crb checking of drivers has reduced crime per capita of taxi drivers?

    No idea on your actual question but it's not CRB anymore, it's DBS (Disclosure and Barring Service) now. According to Uber London's website, all their drivers have to apply for an Enhanced DBS.
  • PaganPagan Posts: 259

    Because something isn't illegal does not make it any less wrong, conversely because something is legal does not make it right.

    If you really don't believe diversity quota's aren't positive discrimination in all but name you are either naive or stupid. Corporations will certainly be internally using them to filter applicants for the desired attributes. Seen it myself where I have been told yes you can apply for that internal vacancy but don't bother it will be going to someone with these diversity boxes ticked
  • PaganPagan Posts: 259
    JonathanD said:

    No idea on your actual question but it's not CRB anymore, it's DBS (Disclosure and Barring Service) now. According to Uber London's website, all their drivers have to apply for an Enhanced DBS.
    I don't keep up with it to be honest whatever its called its the same thing, I know it has caused a lot of harm. Just would like to think it has done some good to offset that as well
  • Change.org petitions for scores of causes and indeed my wife actively signs them on many issues.

    However as with all emails you can unsubscibe at any time.

    Also why shouldn't the Company fight for it's interests
    Uber can do what they want. Though public opinion should have no bearing on a quasi judicial decision so the petition its self should be ignored in that regard.
  • Uber can do what they want. Though public opinion should have no bearing on a quasi judicial decision so the petition its self should be ignored in that regard.
    As long as it is not politics OK
  • spire2spire2 Posts: 183
    Still uber?? Good god nobody outside north London gives a toss
  • " Free to *sign* Trade Deals " The EU are never going to let us do that during a Status Quo transition when the Status Quo says we can't do our own deals. Nor should they lets us undercut them like that. The " transition " is about giving us time to do those deals as the A50 period isn't long enough and as an aside the pressure will mount for the transition to be longer than 2 years.

    So Boris is using the classic tactic of asking for at least one thing he knows May literally can't deliver.

    This is not correct. There is actually no legal barrier to the UK negotiating trade deals now as long as they do not come into effect until after Brexit - trade is an EU competency and thus reserved but trade after the UK leaves obviously is not, so not covered by these rules.

    The UK have been holding off while they negotiate with the EU. However if the price of any transition is that we can negotiate deals to come into effect after the transition, the UK must refuse.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 126,594
    In FPTP UK as opposed to MMS New Zealand? Not so much and Corbyn of course increased his voteshare by almost exactly the same as Ardern did but both still came second
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,886
    spire2 said:

    Still uber?? Good god nobody outside north London gives a toss

    Need a like button for this!
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,886
    edited September 2017
    Pagan said:

    I don't keep up with it to be honest whatever its called its the same thing, I know it has caused a lot of harm. Just would like to think it has done some good to offset that as well
    CRB required disclosure of convictions. DBS has a lower threshold. Think of it as what is needed for criminal conviction or civil. Agree it is technical. Like not guilty and not proven in Scottish Law maybe?
    Edit: And spent convictions and cautions which have a automatic expiry.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,236

    Crucial bit of info from The Sunday Times.

    Rebel Tory MPs have the numbers to trigger a leadership contest.

    So the Florence speech has definitely unified the party and ended in the feuding.
  • Dura_Ace said:

    So the Florence speech has definitely unified the party and ended in the feuding.
    I think is depends on May's reaction to the inevitable EU rejection of her offer. I think in May's mind, and in the mind of most Tory MPs, she has moved closer to the EU position so it is now incumbent on the EU to show some movement towards a compromise. I doubt that they will do any such thing. At that stage, the crunch that has been coming the whole time will arrive. There is simply nothing more that the UK can realistically offer at this stage without engaging in abject surrender. If May walks away she might survive, but if she tries to make another series of concessions to placate Hammond and the civil service, she is toast.
This discussion has been closed.