politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Betting on what Trump will be impeached for

Essexit said:

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

http://www.politico.eu/article/juncker-to-oppose-multispeed-europe/

Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker will call for non-eurozone countries to join the EU’s common currency in his State of the European Union address in Strasbourg Wednesday, according to an EU diplomat who briefed reporters on the speech beforehand.

If Sweden and Denmark are forced to choose between staying in the EU but joining the euro or leaving and rejoining EFTA they may well choose EFTA given both nations rejected the euro in referendums

Which reminds me, I have £15 @ 66/1 on Sweden being the next country to leave the EU, provided it does so within the next 10 years. Druncker could make me a grand.

williamglenn said:

Mortimer said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/jennifermerode/status/907877940817526784

I love the smell of damage limitation in the morning.

The significance is that it's the day after, not the day before. No last minute escape possible for the UK.

stodge said:

Morning all

The problem for me has never been the Euro but the Single Market. It is a pernicious mechanism which has enriched a few and caused immense social damage in many areas. Opening borders and markets has simply caused labour and capital to flow to the wealthier areas of Europe and impoverished the peripheries and other places.

For all that London, Bavaria, the Rhineland and other places have gained from migrant labour and the ability to expand service-driven economies, the social damage both in terms of the impact of migration on the places where the migrants have arrived and (much more importantly) the areas they have left has been considerable.

I wanted a European Union dedicated to the economic improvement of all of Europe including and especially the poorer peripheral areas yet all they have got is depopulation and economic devastation whether it's a Greek island or a Romanian or Bulgarian village or even parts of Ireland - the young have left, the businesses have closed and only the old remain. This was foreshadowed in the depopulation of the GDR after unification but we didn't see or want to see and, incidentally, makes the claims of those who assert they didn't realise the potential flow of economic migrants from Poland and other accessor countries lamentable.

I'm sure my vision of what the EU should be is a minority one and I'm not going with the economic flow - I don't care. Parts of Cornwall and Wales benefitted in the past from projects supported by EU Objective One funding and there remains considerable poverty in the rural and peripheral areas of Europe but that no longer seems to be the EU's focus and that's why I voted to Leave (among other reasons).

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/margschinas/status/907878784728289285

HYUFD said:

I think it could be similar to our election, the Nationals fail to get anywhere near the landslide they hoped for for their new PM and probably lose their majority and have to do a deal with NZ First but Labour though making gains fail to win either

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/margschinas/status/907878784728289285

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/margschinas/status/907878784728289285

Roger said:

Anyone who doesn't live in Ludlow must be aware of the rapidly increasing numbers of rough sleepers in our towns and cities. The numbers seem to be doubling each week. It's not up to Thatcher levels yet but it's noticably on the rise. Whether it's just Tory economic policy or early onset Brexit is hard to say but one thing for certain; after Brexit it's going to get a hell of a lot worse.

Allan said:

New sick man of Europe?

"told his allies that he wants her 'chopped up in bags in my freezer'"
http://www.esquire.co.uk/culture/longform/a17158/george-osborne-revenge/

another_richard said:

stodge said:

Morning all

The problem for me has never been the Euro but the Single Market. It is a pernicious mechanism which has enriched a few and caused immense social damage in many areas. Opening borders and markets has simply caused labour and capital to flow to the wealthier areas of Europe and impoverished the peripheries and other places.

For all that London, Bavaria, the Rhineland and other places have gained from migrant labour and the ability to expand service-driven economies, the social damage both in terms of the impact of migration on the places where the migrants have arrived and (much more importantly) the areas they have left has been considerable.

I wanted a European Union dedicated to the economic improvement of all of Europe including and especially the poorer peripheral areas yet all they have got is depopulation and economic devastation whether it's a Greek island or a Romanian or Bulgarian village or even parts of Ireland - the young have left, the businesses have closed and only the old remain. This was foreshadowed in the depopulation of the GDR after unification but we didn't see or want to see and, incidentally, makes the claims of those who assert they didn't realise the potential flow of economic migrants from Poland and other accessor countries lamentable.

I'm sure my vision of what the EU should be is a minority one and I'm not going with the economic flow - I don't care. Parts of Cornwall and Wales benefitted in the past from projects supported by EU Objective One funding and there remains considerable poverty in the rural and peripheral areas of Europe but that no longer seems to be the EU's focus and that's why I voted to Leave (among other reasons).

If its a minority view then I'm in the minority as well.

CarlottaVance said:

Casino_Royale said:

FPT - I agree with all of Richard Nabavi's posts, which were excellent.

+1

Of course he was probably singing Rule Britannia! in Union Jack underpants as he typed it, if some are to be believed....

SouthamObserver said:

It would be good to know why this Vote Leave staffer is wrong ...
https://twitter.com/OliverNorgrove/status/907687683128004608

Blue_rog said:

another_richard said:

stodge said:

Morning all

The problem for me has never been the Euro but the Single Market. It is a pernicious mechanism which has enriched a few and caused immense social damage in many areas. Opening borders and markets has simply caused labour and capital to flow to the wealthier areas of Europe and impoverished the peripheries and other places.

For all that London, Bavaria, the Rhineland and other places have gained from migrant labour and the ability to expand service-driven economies, the social damage both in terms of the impact of migration on the places where the migrants have arrived and (much more importantly) the areas they have left has been considerable.

I wanted a European Union dedicated to the economic improvement of all of Europe including and especially the poorer peripheral areas yet all they have got is depopulation and economic devastation whether it's a Greek island or a Romanian or Bulgarian village or even parts of Ireland - the young have left, the businesses have closed and only the old remain. This was foreshadowed in the depopulation of the GDR after unification but we didn't see or want to see and, incidentally, makes the claims of those who assert they didn't realise the potential flow of economic migrants from Poland and other accessor countries lamentable.

I'm sure my vision of what the EU should be is a minority one and I'm not going with the economic flow - I don't care. Parts of Cornwall and Wales benefitted in the past from projects supported by EU Objective One funding and there remains considerable poverty in the rural and peripheral areas of Europe but that no longer seems to be the EU's focus and that's why I voted to Leave (among other reasons).

If its a minority view then I'm in the minority as well.

And me

Dura_Ace said:

Brexit is getting a bit dull. Isn't time for the annual NHS crisis yet?

williamglenn said:

We're going to want to join the Euro. It's the only way we can reverse the geopolitical damage we're doing to ourselves through Brexit.

https://twitter.com/JenniferMerode/status/907872740891402240

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/katie_martin_fx/status/907841081819136001

@joncstone: Juncker announces the EU is opening trade negotiations with Australia and New Zealand #SOTEU

eek said:

tlg86 said:

Dura_Ace said:

Brexit is getting a bit dull. Isn't time for the annual NHS crisis yet?

Don't worry, winter is coming.

And supposedly this years flu jab gambled on the wrong strains...

Philip_Thompson said:

GIN1138 said:

eek said:

tlg86 said:

Dura_Ace said:

Brexit is getting a bit dull. Isn't time for the annual NHS crisis yet?

Don't worry, winter is coming.

And supposedly this years flu jab gambled on the wrong strains...

I know someone who works in Pharma (researching new drugs for people with lung complaints) who says the flu jab is a complete waste of time and money and most people might as well have a Placebo.

"most" is a concerning word there. Sure "most" may as well have a placebo but what about the others? Presumably for the others the jab did something useful?

GIN1138 said:

Philip_Thompson said:

GIN1138 said:

eek said:

tlg86 said:

Dura_Ace said:

Brexit is getting a bit dull. Isn't time for the annual NHS crisis yet?

Don't worry, winter is coming.

And supposedly this years flu jab gambled on the wrong strains...

I know someone who works in Pharma (researching new drugs for people with lung complaints) who says the flu jab is a complete waste of time and money and most people might as well have a Placebo.

"most" is a concerning word there. Sure "most" may as well have a placebo but what about the others? Presumably for the others the jab did something useful?

Dunno. Just saying what I was told.

NickPalmer said:

The key point which I don't think has widely sunk in among the political class is that the Continental electorate - and therefore to some extent the politicians - don't actually care very much. Brexit barely featured in the French elections, and it's not featuring at all in the German ones. Everyone sees it as the Brits going off and doing something eccentric- they feel mildly regretful but ultimately hey, it's our business. Insofar as they're paying attention, they want a good payment to cover commitments and some sort of workable trading arrangement, and that will do.

stodge said:

Monksfield said:

So how do you explain the investment by big EC companies in manufacturing in Slovakia, Czech Republic etc? It could clearly be argued that there is a transitional phase during which these accession countries lose population, skills etc., but this is compensated over time by investment, and they gradually rise to the mean. I'm a very regular visitor to the two aforementioned countries and what I see is I see two countries on the up, going in a very different direction to the UK.

The woes of places like Cornwall and South Wales are largely down to domestic policy post war, not anything the EU did to us.

I defer to your knowledge of Slovakia and the Czech Republic and this is certainly to be welcomed. Whether we have seen the same level of investment in Romania and Bulgaria seems to be more open to question at this time.

I do agree in time (and we are seeing this already to some degree with Poles and the Baltic States) that there is a flow back to the native lands as their economies improve and the standards of living rise in response.

My point would be if this mechanism is as well known as seems to be the case, some forward thinking and planning as to the managing of the expectations of newly-joining countries would seem to be in order.

As to Cornwall and South Wales, my point was our EU membership was beneficial in sending funding for key infrastructural projects our way - I believe the dualling of the A30 in Cornwall was funded through Objective One as an example. It's that kind of investment in improving the economies of the rural and peripheral areas with which the EU should be involved supporting national Governments.

Yorkcity said:

OldKingCole said:

Yorkcity said:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/nick-clegg-miriam-gonzlez-durntez-11161009 .I just wanted to wish Nick Clegg and his family Al the best after reading the article.I know how hard it is as my family has been through similar .It really puts ones worries into perspective.

Totally agree. It’s a terrible thing to have to live with; they must have had 18 or so months of absolute hell.
Our daughter was an adult when she developed Motor Neurone Disease and had a husband to support her, but you still think..... why my child, why not me.

Yes my thoughts exactly , our children are so called SWANs syndrome without a name.Complete DNA genetic testing at Manchester and Great Ormond Street Hospital still can not find a cause to their severe disability.

HYUFD said:

williamglenn said:

http://www.politico.eu/article/juncker-to-oppose-multispeed-europe/

Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker will call for non-eurozone countries to join the EU’s common currency in his State of the European Union address in Strasbourg Wednesday, according to an EU diplomat who briefed reporters on the speech beforehand.

If Sweden and Denmark are forced to choose between staying in the EU but joining the euro or leaving and rejoining EFTA they may well choose EFTA given both nations rejected the euro in referendums

eristdoof said:

Just heard on the German news "Exceptions only for the UK and Denmark"

Blue_rog said:

How about leveraging the European institutions to invest in the home state and improve opportunities. Then, as the home state improves, local people get worthwhile employment and each member state increases in prosperity. Sucking out the best and brightest to work as second class citizens in a wealthy core EU state doesn't do that.

foxinsoxuk said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

eristdoof said:

Just heard on the German news "Exceptions only for the UK and Denmark"

That is the formal treaty position: Denmark and the UK negotiated opt-outs. Sweden didn't, so it is supposed to be committed to moving towards Euro membership, but in practice it is working around the rules by creative sloth.

The Germans, of course, are very keen on rules being followed to the letter!

Though while I was in Sweden this year, it was nearly a cashless society. Everything from buses to bars to street stalls took cards, and many wouldn't take cash. As the SEK is very stable to the Euro it may actually make very little difference.

When it is cashless, and the currency rates are stable, it matters very little in what nominal currency the transaction is conducted in.

Charles said:

stodge said:

Monksfield said:

So how do you explain the investment by big EC companies in manufacturing in Slovakia, Czech Republic etc? It could clearly be argued that there is a transitional phase during which these accession countries lose population, skills etc., but this is compensated over time by investment, and they gradually rise to the mean. I'm a very regular visitor to the two aforementioned countries and what I see is I see two countries on the up, going in a very different direction to the UK.

The woes of places like Cornwall and South Wales are largely down to domestic policy post war, not anything the EU did to us.

I defer to your knowledge of Slovakia and the Czech Republic and this is certainly to be welcomed. Whether we have seen the same level of investment in Romania and Bulgaria seems to be more open to question at this time.

I do agree in time (and we are seeing this already to some degree with Poles and the Baltic States) that there is a flow back to the native lands as their economies improve and the standards of living rise in response.

My point would be if this mechanism is as well known as seems to be the case, some forward thinking and planning as to the managing of the expectations of newly-joining countries would seem to be in order.

As to Cornwall and South Wales, my point was our EU membership was beneficial in sending funding for key infrastructural projects our way - I believe the dualling of the A30 in Cornwall was funded through Objective One as an example. It's that kind of investment in improving the economies of the rural and peripheral areas with which the EU should be involved supporting national Governments.

We give a bunch of money to the EU

They deduct some in administration costs and give us a small part back to widen a road in Cornwall.

Isn't there a more efficient way to do this?

Richard_Nabavi said:

The Germans, of course, are very keen on rules being followed to the letter!

DavidL said:

foxinsoxuk said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

eristdoof said:

Just heard on the German news "Exceptions only for the UK and Denmark"

That is the formal treaty position: Denmark and the UK negotiated opt-outs. Sweden didn't, so it is supposed to be committed to moving towards Euro membership, but in practice it is working around the rules by creative sloth.

The Germans, of course, are very keen on rules being followed to the letter!

Though while I was in Sweden this year, it was nearly a cashless society. Everything from buses to bars to street stalls took cards, and many wouldn't take cash. As the SEK is very stable to the Euro it may actually make very little difference.

When it is cashless, and the currency rates are stable, it matters very little in what nominal currency the transaction is conducted in.

Not that stable: https://www.bing.com/search?q=1 SEK to EUR&FORM=S00037&filter=ufn:%22SEK%22 aid:%22de79675229366a3bf9c00cb0b4f461a4%22 sid:%22EUR1%22 cpair:%22EUR1%22 dstr:%22%22 currency:%221%22

I don't see the connection between a society being cashless and an indifference to what the exchange rate of that currency is.

Richard_Nabavi said:

eristdoof said:

Just heard on the German news "Exceptions only for the UK and Denmark"

That is the formal treaty position: Denmark and the UK negotiated opt-outs. Sweden didn't, so it is supposed to be committed to moving towards Euro membership, but in practice it is working around the rules by creative sloth.

The Germans, of course, are very keen on rules being followed to the letter!

CD13 said:

Mr Observer,

Blaming current politicians for not being prepared is missing the point. The blame lies fairly with Cameron D. He was in charge of the Civil Service, and their people would normally have had position papers ready for the possible eventualities. Unless stopped from doing so.

Dave promised to implement the will of the people .... but he didn't expect to lose, so he f*cked off.

I think there was a window of opportunity for the UK to stay in the EU, but only a slight one. Acceptance of the democratic will of the UK by the EU and the Remainers.

But that was never going to happen. It take have taken flexibility on the EU's part plus a lack of rancour from the losers. The former reacted with spite and anger "You will bend the knee (as they say in G.O.T) or we will make you pay" and with anger and spite from the latter "You're all stupid and racist Neanderthals" .

foxinsoxuk said:

DavidL said:

foxinsoxuk said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

eristdoof said:

Just heard on the German news "Exceptions only for the UK and Denmark"

That is the formal treaty position: Denmark and the UK negotiated opt-outs. Sweden didn't, so it is supposed to be committed to moving towards Euro membership, but in practice it is working around the rules by creative sloth.

The Germans, of course, are very keen on rules being followed to the letter!

Though while I was in Sweden this year, it was nearly a cashless society. Everything from buses to bars to street stalls took cards, and many wouldn't take cash. As the SEK is very stable to the Euro it may actually make very little difference.

When it is cashless, and the currency rates are stable, it matters very little in what nominal currency the transaction is conducted in.

Not that stable: https://www.bing.com/search?q=1 SEK to EUR&FORM=S00037&filter=ufn:%22SEK%22 aid:%22de79675229366a3bf9c00cb0b4f461a4%22 sid:%22EUR1%22 cpair:%22EUR1%22 dstr:%22%22 currency:%221%22

I don't see the connection between a society being cashless and an indifference to what the exchange rate of that currency is.

More that the indifference is to the nominal currency rather than the exchange rate.

The Danish Krona is very tightly managed to mirror the Euro. The Swedisk Krona may be deliberately moving more, so as to justify non convergence.

My point is that national currencies are more likely to be abolished by technology than governments.

Monksfield said:

CD13 said:

Mr Observer,

Blaming current politicians for not being prepared is missing the point. The blame lies fairly with Cameron D. He was in charge of the Civil Service, and their people would normally have had position papers ready for the possible eventualities. Unless stopped from doing so.

Dave promised to implement the will of the people .... but he didn't expect to lose, so he f*cked off.

I think there was a window of opportunity for the UK to stay in the EU, but only a slight one. Acceptance of the democratic will of the UK by the EU and the Remainers.

But that was never going to happen. It take have taken flexibility on the EU's part plus a lack of rancour from the losers. The former reacted with spite and anger "You will bend the knee (as they say in G.O.T) or we will make you pay" and with anger and spite from the latter "You're all stupid and racist Neanderthals" .

There was certainly a window of opportunity not to get into the mess we're in now. It needed to recognise in the first instance that 52/48 was actually a close result with the country utterly divided, not a decisive victory for leave, and then a period of proper reflection on the potential ways forward with DCameron leading it, not going to ground.

DavidL said:

foxinsoxuk said:

DavidL said:

foxinsoxuk said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

eristdoof said:

Just heard on the German news "Exceptions only for the UK and Denmark"

That is the formal treaty position: Denmark and the UK negotiated opt-outs. Sweden didn't, so it is supposed to be committed to moving towards Euro membership, but in practice it is working around the rules by creative sloth.

The Germans, of course, are very keen on rules being followed to the letter!

Though while I was in Sweden this year, it was nearly a cashless society. Everything from buses to bars to street stalls took cards, and many wouldn't take cash. As the SEK is very stable to the Euro it may actually make very little difference.

When it is cashless, and the currency rates are stable, it matters very little in what nominal currency the transaction is conducted in.

Not that stable: https://www.bing.com/search?q=1 SEK to EUR&FORM=S00037&filter=ufn:%22SEK%22 aid:%22de79675229366a3bf9c00cb0b4f461a4%22 sid:%22EUR1%22 cpair:%22EUR1%22 dstr:%22%22 currency:%221%22

I don't see the connection between a society being cashless and an indifference to what the exchange rate of that currency is.

More that the indifference is to the nominal currency rather than the exchange rate.

The Danish Krona is very tightly managed to mirror the Euro. The Swedisk Krona may be deliberately moving more, so as to justify non convergence.

My point is that national currencies are more likely to be abolished by technology than governments.

I agree that the Danish Krona is more tightly managed. I also agree that the Swedes are making sure that the conditions for membership of the Euro are not quite met.

I don't see how technology abolishes currencies unless it facilitates dollarization type dominance. If the people of Denmark, for example, choose to price and accept items in euros to an overwhelming extent then their currency could become redundant. But I don't think there is much evidence of that happening.

Richard_Nabavi said:

eristdoof said:

Just heard on the German news "Exceptions only for the UK and Denmark"

That is the formal treaty position: Denmark and the UK negotiated opt-outs. Sweden didn't, so it is supposed to be committed to moving towards Euro membership, but in practice it is working around the rules by creative sloth.

The Germans, of course, are very keen on rules being followed to the letter!

TheScreamingEagles said:

CD13 said:

Mr Eagles,

You are missing my point.

I strongly suspect that Dave not only did no preparation, he expressly prevented the Civil Service from, as he thought, wasting their time preparing. That is what the Civil Service would do routinely unless stopped.

Well you're wrong.

Preparation was begun but since Leave had no manifesto, nor any white paper (like the Scottish Government in the Indyref) it was hard for the civil service to wargame the precise Brexit route that would be delivered as the Vote Leave campaign contained so many contradictions and blatantly unrealistic hopes.

currystar said:

With all the criticism again on here of the Government, I can't believe that people are now just taking for granted the extraordinary unemployment figures that this government has achieved. They are truly remarkable and they should be congratulated.

TheScreamingEagles said:

currystar said:

With all the criticism again on here of the Government, I can't believe that people are now just taking for granted the extraordinary unemployment figures that this government has achieved. They are truly remarkable and they should be congratulated.

A testament to George Osborne's magnificent stewardship of the economy and golden economic legacy he bequeathed Mrs May's government.

CD13 said:

Mr Eagles,

I suspect we'll not agree so we'll leave it at that.

Dave was a stereotype Toff.

Affable when getting his own way, but incandescent with rage when thwarted. As a horny-handed son of the soil from Yorkshire, I thought you might understand that.

Ishmael_Z said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

CD13 said:

Mr Eagles,
You are missing my point.
I strongly suspect that Dave not only did no preparation, he expressly prevented the Civil Service from, as he thought, wasting their time preparing. That is what the Civil Service would do routinely unless stopped.

Well you're wrong.
Preparation was begun but since Leave had no manifesto, nor any white paper (like the Scottish Government in the Indyref) it was hard for the civil service to wargame the precise Brexit route that would be delivered as the Vote Leave campaign contained so many contradictions and blatantly unrealistic hopes.

The "wrong sort of snow" argument in its purest form.
Mind you, in retrospect the best (and valid, sadly) Remain argument was this: you are shackled hand and foot in an otherwise comfortable dungeon where you get three good meals a day, and fast internet access. The dungeon is in the heart of Siberia, it is midwinter and packs of starving wolves surround the compound round the whole set up. Do you stay put, or do you gnaw through each one of your four limbs, roll out through the razorwire and get eaten by the wolves?

Alanbrooke said:

DavidL said:

currystar said:

With all the criticism again on here of the Government, I can't believe that people are now just taking for granted the extraordinary unemployment figures that this government has achieved. They are truly remarkable and they should be congratulated.

The employment figures are indeed remarkable and a very strong contrast to the mass unemployment that was tolerated in the 1980s as the economy was reformed. But there are a number of problems.

Firstly, why is this strong growth in employment not being reflected in growth in GDP? The implication is that productivity is flat to falling backwards. This tends to suggest that much of the employment growth is at the bottom end of the skills and wages arc. This in turn is driving down average pay since the proportion of our workforce on low skills at or just above minimum wage is increasing.

Much of this employment is subsidised by in work benefits. There are good social reasons for this but this is also why significant falls in unemployment have not really helped with deficit reduction. The subsidy means demand is expanded beyond the value of the output. This is a major cause of our trade deficit.

Ultimately there has to be a concern that this is not sustainable. We need to produce enough value to pay our bills individually, in the public finances and as a country. And we aren't. We need to focus enough of our efforts on higher value jobs with higher pay. At the moment we are excessively focussing on the low skill, low paid.

UK companies have become hooked on cheap labour

TheScreamingEagles said:

CD13 said:

Mr Eagles,

I suspect we'll not agree so we'll leave it at that.

Dave was a stereotype Toff.

Affable when getting his own way, but incandescent with rage when thwarted. As a horny-handed son of the soil from Yorkshire, I thought you might understand that.

You should really meet and speak to the people who worked for David Cameron, they'd laugh at your characterisation of him.

Monksfield said:

Charles said:

stodge said:

Monksfield said:

So how do you explain the investment by big EC companies in manufacturing in Slovakia, Czech Republic etc? It could clearly be argued that there is a transitional phase during which these accession countries lose population, skills etc., but this is compensated over time by investment, and they gradually rise to the mean. I'm a very regular visitor to the two aforementioned countries and what I see is I see two countries on the up, going in a very different direction to the UK.

The woes of places like Cornwall and South Wales are largely down to domestic policy post war, not anything the EU did to us.

I defer to your knowledge of Slovakia and the Czech Republic and this is certainly to be welcomed. Whether we have seen the same level of investment in Romania and Bulgaria seems to be more open to question at this time.

I do agree in time (and we are seeing this already to some degree with Poles and the Baltic States) that there is a flow back to the native lands as their economies improve and the standards of living rise in response.

My point would be if this mechanism is as well known as seems to be the case, some forward thinking and planning as to the managing of the expectations of newly-joining countries would seem to be in order.

As to Cornwall and South Wales, my point was our EU membership was beneficial in sending funding for key infrastructural projects our way - I believe the dualling of the A30 in Cornwall was funded through Objective One as an example. It's that kind of investment in improving the economies of the rural and peripheral areas with which the EU should be involved supporting national Governments.

We give a bunch of money to the EU

They deduct some in administration costs and give us a small part back to widen a road in Cornwall.

Isn't there a more efficient way to do this?

Indeed why should we have redistribution Charles? Maybe committees of volunteers could be exhorted to widen the road for free, parish by parish.

Isn't that the Big Society? Or are those days unmentionable now?

TheScreamingEagles said:

CD13 said:

Mr Eagles,

You are missing my point.

I strongly suspect that Dave not only did no preparation, he expressly prevented the Civil Service from, as he thought, wasting their time preparing. That is what the Civil Service would do routinely unless stopped.

Well you're wrong.

Preparation was begun but since Leave had no manifesto, nor any white paper (like the Scottish Government in the Indyref) it was hard for the civil service to wargame the precise Brexit route that would be delivered as the Vote Leave campaign contained so many contradictions and blatantly unrealistic hopes.