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I think you may be over-reacting to this possibility... it's unlikely to happen.SouthamObserver said:
And that has nothing to do with the Tories giving themselves majorities on committees that the will of the people did not deliver to them.CornishBlue said:
Brexit was expressed in 2016.SouthamObserver said:
It has nothing to do with the EU, I'm afraid. This is a Tory government seeking to undermine the will of the British people as expressed through the ballot box.HYUFD said:
Not that the EU seems that bothered about that given there moves for a separate NI deal and of course the Brexit backing DUP won most seats in NI and backed the Tories anywaySouthamObserver said:
The anti-democrat is struggling. It's the UK parliament.HYUFD said:
Actually the Tories did get a majority of seats in England, Scotland and Wales combined just not a majority once you included Northern Ireland, as the EU has indicated today it intends to do a separate Brexit deal with NI anyway so the Tories do have a majority to implement Brexit for the rest of the UKSouthamObserver said:
I'll put you down as an anti-democrat then.HYUFD said:
The people who voted 52% Leave in June 2016 and gave the Tories a majority of the seats in GB in June 2017 you mean?SouthamObserver said:
Is it too much to hope there are some Tories out there who do genuinely believe in respecting the will of the people? Will all of them really be so supine, so anti-democratic as to wave this through?TheScreamingEagles said:
We're doing this to ensure Parliament is sovereign Leavers have gone curiously quiet.SouthamObserver said:
Mrs May is not a democrat. And obviously the Tory MPs who proclaim their faith in the will of the people will back her. The hypocrisy is rank and utterly predictable. Party before country every single time.TheScreamingEagles said:Sic semper tyrannis.
The Tories did not get a majority of seats in June. That's kind of the point.
And at the 2017 GE leaving the single market too.0 -
What does D stand for in DUP?SouthamObserver said:
And that has nothing to do with the Tories giving themselves majorities on committees that the will of the people did not deliver to them.CornishBlue said:
Brexit was expressed in 2016.SouthamObserver said:
It has nothing to do with the EU, I'm afraid. This is a Tory government seeking to undermine the will of the British people as expressed through the ballot box.HYUFD said:
Not that the EU seems that bothered about that given there moves for a separate NI deal and of course the Brexit backing DUP won most seats in NI and backed the Tories anywaySouthamObserver said:
The anti-democrat is struggling. It's the UK parliament.HYUFD said:
Actually the Tories did get a majority of seats in England, Scotland and Wales combined just not a majority once you included Northern Ireland, as the EU has indicated today it intends to do a separate Brexit deal with NI anyway so the Tories do have a majority to implement Brexit for the rest of the UKSouthamObserver said:
I'll put you down as an anti-democrat then.HYUFD said:
The people who voted 52% Leave in June 2016 and gave the Tories a majority of the seats in GB in June 2017 you mean?SouthamObserver said:
Is it too much to hope there are some Tories out there who do genuinely believe in respecting the will of the people? Will all of them really be so supine, so anti-democratic as to wave this through?TheScreamingEagles said:
We're doing this to ensure Parliament is sovereign Leavers have gone curiously quiet.SouthamObserver said:
Mrs May is not a democrat. And obviously the Tory MPs who proclaim their faith in the will of the people will back her. The hypocrisy is rank and utterly predictable. Party before country every single time.TheScreamingEagles said:Sic semper tyrannis.
The Tories did not get a majority of seats in June. That's kind of the point.
And at the 2017 GE leaving the single market too.0 -
The government is proposing it.CornishBlue said:
I think you may be over-reacting to this possibility... it's unlikely to happen.SouthamObserver said:
And that has nothing to do with the Tories giving themselves majorities on committees that the will of the people did not deliver to them.CornishBlue said:
Brexit was expressed in 2016.SouthamObserver said:
It has nothing to do with the EU, I'm afraid. This is a Tory government seeking to undermine the will of the British people as expressed through the ballot box.HYUFD said:
Not that the EU seems that bothered about that given there moves for a separate NI deal and of course the Brexit backing DUP won most seats in NI and backed the Tories anywaySouthamObserver said:
The anti-democrat is struggling. It's the UK parliament.HYUFD said:
Actually the Tories did get a majority of seats in England, Scotland and Wales combined just not a majority once you included Northern Ireland, as the EU has indicated today it intends to do a separate Brexit deal with NI anyway so the Tories do have a majority to implement Brexit for the rest of the UKSouthamObserver said:
I'll put you down as an anti-democrat then.HYUFD said:
The people who voted 52% Leave in June 2016 and gave the Tories a majority of the seats in GB in June 2017 you mean?SouthamObserver said:
Is it too much to hope there are some Tories out there who do genuinely believe in respecting the will of the people? Will all of them really be so supine, so anti-democratic as to wave this through?TheScreamingEagles said:
We're doing this to ensure Parliament is sovereign Leavers have gone curiously quiet.SouthamObserver said:
Mrs May is not a democrat. And obviously the Tory MPs who proclaim their faith in the will of the people will back her. The hypocrisy is rank and utterly predictable. Party before country every single time.TheScreamingEagles said:Sic semper tyrannis.
The Tories did not get a majority of seats in June. That's kind of the point.
And at the 2017 GE leaving the single market too.
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She won then. I thought so.HYUFD said:
She did win most departements and regions in round 1bigjohnowls said:
And MLP could still win in France.HYUFD said:
Indeed and the DUP backed Brexit even when the then Tory leader was leading the Remain campaign last JuneCornishBlue said:
Exactly. There is a TORY DUP majority in seats.HYUFD said:
A UK Parliament where the largest party in Northern Ireland have backed the Tories anywayTheScreamingEagles said:
But this is a United Kingdom Parliament. not a GB Parliament.HYUFD said:
The people who voted 52% Leave in June 2016 and gave the Tories a majority of the seats in GB in June 2017 you mean?SouthamObserver said:
Is it too much to hope there are some Tories out there who do genuinely believe in respecting the will of the people? Will all of them really be so supine, so anti-democratic as to wave this through?TheScreamingEagles said:
We're doing this to ensure Parliament is sovereign Leavers have gone curiously quiet.SouthamObserver said:
Mrs May is not a democrat. And obviously the Tory MPs who proclaim their faith in the will of the people will back her. The hypocrisy is rank and utterly predictable. Party before country every single time.TheScreamingEagles said:Sic semper tyrannis.
All hail the President MLP0 -
As Sunil states the people voted in June 2016 and voted by 52% to 48% to Leave the EUSouthamObserver said:
Nope. You do not believe in democracy. The people voted in June. The result was that no party received a majority. The Tory government now seeks to undermine the verdict they delivered. It has nothing to do with me, the EU, Leave or Remain.HYUFD said:
No this is hardcore Remainers like you attempting to portray yourself as 'democrats' while yet again pushing to frustrate and undermine the vote of 17 million people for BrexitSouthamObserver said:
It has nothing to do with the EU, I'm afraid. This is a Tory government seeking to undermine the will of the British people as expressed through the ballot box.HYUFD said:
Not that the EU seems that bothered about that given there moves for a separate NI deal and of course the Brexit backing DUP won most seats in NI and backed the Tories anywaySouthamObserver said:
The anti-democrat is struggling. It's the UK parliament.HYUFD said:
ActuallySouthamObserver said:
I'll put you down as an anti-democrat then.HYUFD said:
The people who voted 52% Leave in June 2016 and gave the Tories a majority of the seats in GB in June 2017 you mean?SouthamObserver said:
Is it too much to hope there are some Tories out there who do genuinely believe in respecting the will of the people? Will all of them really be so supine, so anti-democratic as to wave this through?TheScreamingEagles said:
We're doing this to ensure Parliament is sovereign Leavers have gone curiously quiet.SouthamObserver said:
Mrs May is not a democrat. And obviously the Tory MPs who proclaim their faith in the will of the people will back her. The hypocrisy is rank and utterly predictable. Party before country every single time.TheScreamingEagles said:Sic semper tyrannis.
The Tories did not get a majority of seats in June. That's kind of the point.
The people then elected 318 Tory seats out of 632 GB seats in June 2017, a majority and 318 seats + 10 Brexit backing DUP seats to give 328 seats out of 650 UK seats, also a majority
So I clearly believe in democracy unlike you who with your fellow diehard Remainers seek to undermine the verdict the electorate have twice delivered, in fact even the leader of the opposition backed both Brexit and leaving the single market at the general election.
So if you want an anti democrat then look in the mirror!!0 -
OHHHHH JERRRRREMMMMMY COÒOÒRRRBYN is the new EICIPMTheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Got to say I am distinctly uncomfortable with the idea of the Government taking these powers. My only consolation is the time limit as my understanding is that they will only be until we actually exit. Even so I think I would be very happy if this part of the bill was amended to put in a lot more safeguards or to find an alternative way to deal with the issue of all the law changes.SouthamObserver said:
Nope. You do not believe in democracy. The people voted in June. The result was that no party received a majority. The Tory government now seeks to undermine the verdict they delivered. It has nothing to do with me, the EU, Leave or Remain.
I would also say that given his record I would trust Davis to stick to his word over the limits of how these would be used. The trouble is I don't trust many other Tories right now and have no faith Davis would be there come Brexit to make sure things were done properly and the powers handed back.0 -
It's about time we had a parliamentary by-election.0
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All hail President '37% approval rating' Macronbigjohnowls said:
She won then. I thought so.HYUFD said:
She did win most departements and regions in round 1bigjohnowls said:
And MLP could still win in France.HYUFD said:
Indeed and the DUP backed Brexit even when the then Tory leader was leading the Remain campaign last JuneCornishBlue said:
Exactly. There is a TORY DUP majority in seats.HYUFD said:
A UK Parliament where the largest party in Northern Ireland have backed the Tories anywayTheScreamingEagles said:
But this is a United Kingdom Parliament. not a GB Parliament.HYUFD said:
The people who voted 52% Leave in June 2016 and gave the Tories a majority of the seats in GB in June 2017 you mean?SouthamObserver said:
Is it too much to hope there are some Tories out there who do genuinely believe in respecting the will of the people? Will all of them really be so supine, so anti-democratic as to wave this through?TheScreamingEagles said:
We're doing this to ensure Parliament is sovereign Leavers have gone curiously quiet.SouthamObserver said:
Mrs May is not a democrat. And obviously the Tory MPs who proclaim their faith in the will of the people will back her. The hypocrisy is rank and utterly predictable. Party before country every single time.TheScreamingEagles said:Sic semper tyrannis.
All hail the President MLP0 -
SouthamObserver:
Apologies. We will see. I hope that there are enough Torirs in the Commons who can see beyond partisanship. It's a genuine test for them.
Apology accepted for the vile calumny:).
Distressingly that leaves 1 Tory Democrat on here. I agree it is a genuine test. Were they to fail, it would show their high-minded disdain for Corbynism to be purely partisan .
Also, it is the kind of brook-no-opposition mental contortions that led to the blowing of a 17% lead in the first place.0 -
This is something on top of that, Richard:Richard_Tyndall said:
Got to say I am distinctly uncomfortable with the idea of the Government taking these powers. My only consolation is the time limit as my understanding is that they will only be until we actually exit. Even so I think I would be very happy if this part of the bill was amended to put in a lot more safeguards or to find an alternative way to deal with the issue of all the law changes.SouthamObserver said:
Nope. You do not believe in democracy. The people voted in June. The result was that no party received a majority. The Tory government now seeks to undermine the verdict they delivered. It has nothing to do with me, the EU, Leave or Remain.
I would also say that given his record I would trust Davis to stick to his word over the limits of how these would be used. The trouble is I don't trust many other Tories right now and have no faith Davis would be there come Brexit to make sure things were done properly and the powers handed back.
http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/uk_59b1a514e4b0dfaafcf68a04/amp
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Must go to CostCo tomorrow and stock up on bogrolls...bigjohnowls said:
OHHHHH JERRRRREMMMMMY COÒOÒRRRBYN is the new EICIPMTheScreamingEagles said:0 -
First preferences in Fortissat (North Lanarkshire):
Clare Quigley, Scottish Labour Party - 1,420
John Jo Leckie, A Better Britain - Unionist Party - 858
Mags Murphy, Scottish National Party - 761
Norma McNab, Scottish Conservative and Unionist - 424
Charlie Cefferty, Independent - 184
Kyle Davidson, Scottish Green Party - 24
Daryl Gardner, UK Independence Party (UKIP) - 18
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'The DUP has just eight MPs and has no presence on the vast majority of standing committees, where the guts of Government legislation is decided and voted on'SouthamObserver said:
This is something on top of that, Richard:Richard_Tyndall said:
Got to say I am distinctly uncomfortable with the idea of the Government taking these powers. My only consolation is the time limit as my understanding is that they will only be until we actually exit. Even so I think I would be very happy if this part of the bill was amended to put in a lot more safeguards or to find an alternative way to deal with the issue of all the law changes.SouthamObserver said:
Nope. You do not believe in democracy. The people voted in June. The result was that no party received a majority. The Tory government now seeks to undermine the verdict they delivered. It has nothing to do with me, the EU, Leave or Remain.
I would also say that given his record I would trust Davis to stick to his word over the limits of how these would be used. The trouble is I don't trust many other Tories right now and have no faith Davis would be there come Brexit to make sure things were done properly and the powers handed back.
http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/uk_59b1a514e4b0dfaafcf68a04/amp
So without DUP MPs there to produce a majority the DUP MPs can then vote for Tory MPs to produce the majority in their stead on Tuesday night0 -
Actually what is genuinely frightening is that we have had such enabling acts on the statute books for decades. In the case of a declared emergency (and it is not exactly clear what such an emergency would entail) there is very little a Government cannot do as far as seizing power and suspending civil rights. I consider it a stain on our democracy but everyone just carries on as if it doesn't exist.Scott_P said:
(none of which is supposed to detract from your point and your valid comparison.)0 -
The same meaning as in PDRK?bigjohnowls said:
What does D stand for in DUP?
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Cardonald (Glasgow)
Lab 2614
SNP 1972
Con 552
Greens 147
LD 80
Libertarian 12
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The will of the people was that no party should have a majority in the House of Commons. You support the Tory governments plan to over-ride the voters' decision. It has absolutely nothing to do with Leave or Remain. You are an anti-democrat who puts partisanship above all else. You do not support a political party; you support a football team.HYUFD said:
As Sunil states the people voted in June 2016 and voted by 52% to 48% to Leave the EUSouthamObserver said:
Nope. You do not believe ine or Remain.HYUFD said:
No this is hardcore people for BrexitSouthamObserver said:
It has nothing to do with the EU, I'm afraid. This is a Tory government seeking to undermine the will of the British people as expressed through the ballot box.HYUFD said:
Not that the EU seemsn NI and backed the Tories anywaySouthamObserver said:
The anti-democrat is struggling. It's the UK parliament.HYUFD said:
ActuallySouthamObserver said:
I'll put you down as an anti-democrat then.HYUFD said:
The people who voted 52% Leave in June 2016 and gave the Tories a majority of the seats in GB in June 2017 you mean?SouthamObserver said:
Is it too much to hope there are some Tories out there who do genuinely believe in respecting the will of the people? Will all of them really be so supine, so anti-democratic as to wave this through?TheScreamingEagles said:
We're doing this to ensure Parliament is sovereign Leavers have gone curiously quiet.SouthamObserver said:
Mrs May is not a democrat. And obviously the Tory MPs who proclaim their faith in the will of the people will back her. The hypocrisy is rank and utterly predictable. Party before country every single time.TheScreamingEagles said:Sic semper tyrannis.
The Tories did not get a majority of seats in June. That's kind of the point.
The people then elected 318 Tory seats out of 632 GB seats in June 2017, a majority and 318 seats + 10 Brexit backing DUP seats to give 328 seats out of 650 UK seats, also a majority
So I clearly believe in democracy unlike you who with your fellow diehard Remainers seek to undermine the verdict the electorate have twice delivered, in fact even the leader of the opposition backed both Brexit and leaving the single market at the general election.
So if you want an anti democrat then look in the mirror!!
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Unfair. Southam is one of a number of Remain voters on here who has made it clear at every stage that he believes we should abide by the vote and Leave the EU. Of course he has not wholeheartedly embraced it but his criticism has generally been constructive and based on a hope for a good Brexit.HYUFD said:
As Sunil states the people voted in June 2016 and voted by 52% to 48% to Leave the EU
The people then elected 318 Tory seats out of 632 GB seats in June 2017, a majority and 318 seats + 10 Brexit backing DUP seats to give 328 seats out of 650 UK seats, also a majority
So I clearly believe in democracy unlike you who with your fellow diehard Remainers seek to undermine the verdict the electorate have twice delivered, in fact even the leader of the opposition backed both Brexit and leaving the single market at the general election.
So if you want an anti democrat then look in the mirror!!
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Scottish local council by-elections are a nightmare. This was a Con defence although they only got 13% of the vote in May. The Conservative candidate elected did not sign his acceptance form which triggered the by-election. It was a nailed on labour gain.AndreaParma_82 said:First preferences in Fortissat (North Lanarkshire):
Clare Quigley, Scottish Labour Party - 1,420
John Jo Leckie, A Better Britain - Unionist Party - 858
Mags Murphy, Scottish National Party - 761
Norma McNab, Scottish Conservative and Unionist - 424
Charlie Cefferty, Independent - 184
Kyle Davidson, Scottish Green Party - 24
Daryl Gardner, UK Independence Party (UKIP) - 180 -
For amusement whilst a lot serious stuff is going on around the world.
https://twitter.com/DPRK_News/status/903985706107883520
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The wording allows them to redefine the endpoint. And indeed to redefine anything else - at present, for instance, the powers don't allow them to alter human rights legislation without asking Parliament, but they allow them to alter that clause without consulting Parliament, after which they can.Richard_Tyndall said:
Got to say I am distinctly uncomfortable with the idea of the Government taking these powers. My only consolation is the time limit as my understanding is that they will only be until we actually exit. Even so I think I would be very happy if this part of the bill was amended to put in a lot more safeguards or to find an alternative way to deal with the issue of all the law changes.SouthamObserver said:
Nope. You do not believe in democracy. The people voted in June. The result was that no party received a majority. The Tory government now seeks to undermine the verdict they delivered. It has nothing to do with me, the EU, Leave or Remain.
I would also say that given his record I would trust Davis to stick to his word over the limits of how these would be used. The trouble is I don't trust many other Tories right now and have no faith Davis would be there come Brexit to make sure things were done properly and the powers handed back.
I don't think they inten to right now, but at somne point they or another government will find itself in an emergency and will be tempted.0 -
Sudbury South (Babergh)*
Cresswell (Lab) 336
Sudbury (Con) 335
Welsh (Lib) 116
Lab gain from Con
*I confess I don't have a clue on where Babergh is0 -
Cheers Richard - I accepted the result on 24th June. I live in the UK, my kids are building their lives here and the business I work at and have a stake in has its HQ here. Of course I want Brexit to work out well. My problem is that from where I sit the government does not seem to have the first idea of what it's doing.Richard_Tyndall said:
Unfair. Southam is one of a number of Remain voters on here who has made it clear at every stage that he believes we should abide by the vote and Leave the EU. Of course he has not wholeheartedly embraced it but his criticism has generally been constructive and based on a hope for a good Brexit.HYUFD said:
As Sunil states the people voted in June 2016 and voted by 52% to 48% to Leave the EU
The people then elected 318 Tory seats out of 632 GB seats in June 2017, a majority and 318 seats + 10 Brexit backing DUP seats to give 328 seats out of 650 UK seats, also a majority
So I clearly believe in democracy unlike you who with your fellow diehard Remainers seek to undermine the verdict the electorate have twice delivered, in fact even the leader of the opposition backed both Brexit and leaving the single market at the general election.
So if you want an anti democrat then look in the mirror!!
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'Not wholeheartedly embraced it' I think is understatement of the decade! I say that as someone who voted Remain myself.Richard_Tyndall said:
Unfair. Southam is one of a number of Remain voters on here who has made it clear at every stage that he believes we should abide by the vote and Leave the EU. Of course he has not wholeheartedly embraced it but his criticism has generally been constructive and based on a hope for a good Brexit.HYUFD said:
As Sunil states the people voted in June 2016 and voted by 52% to 48% to Leave the EU
The people then elected 318 Tory seats out of 632 GB seats in June 2017, a majority and 318 seats + 10 Brexit backing DUP seats to give 328 seats out of 650 UK seats, also a majority
So I clearly believe in democracy unlike you who with your fellow diehard Remainers seek to undermine the verdict the electorate have twice delivered, in fact even the leader of the opposition backed both Brexit and leaving the single market at the general election.
So if you want an anti democrat then look in the mirror!!
Of course there was not much criticism from the same Remain diehards when all this legislation from the EU was imposed on the UK with barely a whimper from Parliament as has been the case since the 1970s0 -
Looks like a good night for Labour in the Scottish by-elections.0
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South Suffolk....sad I know that without googling!AndreaParma_82 said:Sudbury South (Babergh)*
Cresswell (Lab) 336
Sudbury (Con) 335
Welsh (Lib) 116
Lab gain from Con
*I confess I don't have a clue on where Babergh is0 -
On the contrary we often lamented the fact that parliamentarians like Nigel Farage and Daniel Hannan didn't do the jobs they were paid for.HYUFD said:Of course there was not much criticism from the same Remain diehards when all this legislation from the EU was imposed on the UK with barely a whimper from Parliament as has been the case since the 1970s
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I have to say that is also what I find so scary about the 2004 Civil Contingencies Act which I assume you voted for. It has the power to amend or suspend all legislation except the 1998 Human Rights Act for up to 30 days on the say so of a minister.NickPalmer said:
The wording allows them to redefine the endpoint. And indeed to redefine anything else - at present, for instance, the powers don't allow them to alter human rights legislation without asking Parliament, but they allow them to alter that clause without consulting Parliament, after which they can.Richard_Tyndall said:
Got to say I am distinctly uncomfortable with the idea of the Government taking these powers. My only consolation is the time limit as my understanding is that they will only be until we actually exit. Even so I think I would be very happy if this part of the bill was amended to put in a lot more safeguards or to find an alternative way to deal with the issue of all the law changes.SouthamObserver said:
Nope. You do not believe in democracy. The people voted in June. The result was that no party received a majority. The Tory government now seeks to undermine the verdict they delivered. It has nothing to do with me, the EU, Leave or Remain.
I would also say that given his record I would trust Davis to stick to his word over the limits of how these would be used. The trouble is I don't trust many other Tories right now and have no faith Davis would be there come Brexit to make sure things were done properly and the powers handed back.
I don't think they inten to right now, but at somne point they or another government will find itself in an emergency and will be tempted.0 -
The will of the people was that the Tories should have a majority in GB and the DUP be given the decision as to who should have a majority in the UK and hence a majority in the House of Commons, given the DUP backed the Tories there is nothing remotely undemocratic about itSouthamObserver said:
The will of the people was that no party should have a majority in the House of Commons. You support the Tory governments plan to over-ride the voters' decision. It has absolutely nothing to do with Leave or Remain. You are an anti-democrat who puts partisanship above all else. You do not support a political party; you support a football team.HYUFD said:
As Sunil states the people voted in June 2016 and voted by 52% to 48% to Leave the EUSouthamObserver said:
Nope. You do not believe ine or Remain.HYUFD said:
No this is hardcore people for BrexitSouthamObserver said:
It has nothing to do with the EU, I'm afraid. This is a Tory government seeking to undermine the will of the British people as expressed through the ballot box.HYUFD said:
Not that the EU seemsn NI and backed the Tories anywaySouthamObserver said:
The anti-democrat is struggling. It's the UK parliament.HYUFD said:
ActuallySouthamObserver said:
I'll put you down as an anti-democrat then.HYUFD said:
The people who voted 52% Leave in June 2016 and gave the Tories a majority of the seats in GB in June 2017 you mean?SouthamObserver said:
Is it too much to hope there are some Tories out there who do genuinely believe in respecting the will of the people? Will all of them really be so supine, so anti-democratic as to wave this through?TheScreamingEagles said:
We're doing this to ensure Parliament is sovereign Leavers have gone curiously quiet.SouthamObserver said:
Mrs May is not a democrat. And obviously the Tory MPs who proclaim their faith in the will of the people will back her. The hypocrisy is rank and utterly predictable. Party before country every single time.TheScreamingEagles said:Sic semper tyrannis.
The Tories did not get a majority of seats in June. That's kind of the point.
The people then elected0 -
It contains the town of Sudbury, Suffolk. Visited the branch line railway way back in 2011AndreaParma_82 said:Sudbury South (Babergh)*
Cresswell (Lab) 336
Sudbury (Con) 335
Welsh (Lib) 116
Lab gain from Con
*I confess I don't have a clue on where Babergh is
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I am not sure either of you can claim to know what the will of the people was. I doubt there were many individuals who voted on the basis of trying to engineer no overall majority.HYUFD said:
The will of the people was that the Tories should have a majority in GB and the DUP be given the decision as to who should have a majority in the UK and hence a majority in the House of Commons, given the DUP backed the Tories there is nothing remotely undemocratic about itSouthamObserver said:
The will of the people was that no party should have a majority in the House of Commons. You support the Tory governments plan to over-ride the voters' decision. It has absolutely nothing to do with Leave or Remain. You are an anti-democrat who puts partisanship above all else. You do not support a political party; you support a football team.HYUFD said:
As Sunil states the people voted in June 2016 and voted by 52% to 48% to Leave the EUSouthamObserver said:
Nope. You do not believe ine or Remain.HYUFD said:
No this is hardcore people for BrexitSouthamObserver said:
It has nothing to do with the EU, I'm afraid. This is a Tory government seeking to undermine the will of the British people as expressed through the ballot box.HYUFD said:
Not that the EU seemsn NI and backed the Tories anywaySouthamObserver said:
The anti-democrat is struggling. It's the UK parliament.HYUFD said:
ActuallySouthamObserver said:
I'll put you down as an anti-democrat then.HYUFD said:
The people who voted 52% Leave in June 2016 and gave the Tories a majority of the seats in GB in June 2017 you mean?SouthamObserver said:
Is it too much to hope there are some Tories out there who do genuinely believe in respecting the will of the people? Will all of them really be so supine, so anti-democratic as to wave this through?TheScreamingEagles said:
We're doing this to ensure Parliament is sovereign Leavers have gone curiously quiet.SouthamObserver said:
Mrs May is not a democrat. And obviously the Tory MPs who proclaim their faith in the will of the people will back her. The hypocrisy is rank and utterly predictable. Party before country every single time.TheScreamingEagles said:Sic semper tyrannis.
The Tories did not get a majority of seats in June. That's kind of the point.
The people then elected0 -
Thanks Sunil and DixieDean0
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Passed through Cardonald station on the way to Ayr yesterdayAndreaParma_82 said:Cardonald (Glasgow)
Lab 2614
SNP 1972
Con 552
Greens 147
LD 80
Libertarian 12 0 -
Amazing that Sudbury could not win in Sudbury!Sunil_Prasannan said:
It contains the town of Sudbury, Suffolk. Visited the branch line railway way back in 2011AndreaParma_82 said:Sudbury South (Babergh)*
Cresswell (Lab) 336
Sudbury (Con) 335
Welsh (Lib) 116
Lab gain from Con
*I confess I don't have a clue on where Babergh is0 -
Just rejoice at that news. Rejoice!TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Good for Yes, no doubt.SouthamObserver said:Looks like a good night for Labour in the Scottish by-elections.
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CROYDON South Norwood
Patsy CUMMINGS (Labour Party) 1,671
Rebecca NATRAJAN (The Conservative Party Candidate) 475
Claire Elizabeth BONHAM (Liberal Democrats) 388
Peter UNDERWOOD (Green Party) 218
Michael SWADLING (UK Independence Party (UKIP)) 78
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Jezza and Richard will win most seats for Labour in Scotland methinks at next GESouthamObserver said:Looks like a good night for Labour in the Scottish by-elections.
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Surely she will reorganise the United Kingdom into the First Galactic Empire - for a safe and secure societyTheScreamingEagles said:
You miss the salient part of my plan.Sunil_Prasannan said:
But you believe in elected dictatorship - who's the hypocrite now?TheScreamingEagles said:
Enough to stop this obscenity.SouthamObserver said:
Is it too much to hope there are some Tories out there who do genuinely believe in respecting the will of the people? Will all of them really be so supine, so anti-democratic as to wave this through?TheScreamingEagles said:
We're doing this to ensure Parliament is sovereign Leavers have gone curiously quiet.SouthamObserver said:
Mrs May is not a democrat. And obviously the Tory MPs who proclaim their faith in the will of the people will back her. The hypocrisy is rank and utterly predictable. Party before country every single time.TheScreamingEagles said:Sic semper tyrannis.
Can't see Dominic Grieve, Ken Clarke, nor Anna Soubry voting for this, so we need only four other Tory MPs to back democracy.
I want to be the country's first Directly Elected Dictator, I will ask the people to give me those powers, then, and only then, will I assert those powers.
Mrs May is usurping power without a mandate to do so, where was this in her manifesto? 0 -
Labour has never won here ever.Sunil_Prasannan said:
It contains the town of Sudbury, Suffolk. Visited the branch line railway way back in 2011AndreaParma_82 said:Sudbury South (Babergh)*
Cresswell (Lab) 336
Sudbury (Con) 335
Welsh (Lib) 116
Lab gain from Con
*I confess I don't have a clue on where Babergh is0 -
Not true, they won the county council seat.bigjohnowls said:
Labour has never won here ever.Sunil_Prasannan said:
It contains the town of Sudbury, Suffolk. Visited the branch line railway way back in 2011AndreaParma_82 said:Sudbury South (Babergh)*
Cresswell (Lab) 336
Sudbury (Con) 335
Welsh (Lib) 116
Lab gain from Con
*I confess I don't have a clue on where Babergh is0 -
The real Sudbury is on the Piccadilly Line in Londonslade said:
Amazing that Sudbury could not win in Sudbury!Sunil_Prasannan said:
It contains the town of Sudbury, Suffolk. Visited the branch line railway way back in 2011AndreaParma_82 said:Sudbury South (Babergh)*
Cresswell (Lab) 336
Sudbury (Con) 335
Welsh (Lib) 116
Lab gain from Con
*I confess I don't have a clue on where Babergh is 0 -
Until now.bigjohnowls said:
Labour has never won here ever.Sunil_Prasannan said:
It contains the town of Sudbury, Suffolk. Visited the branch line railway way back in 2011AndreaParma_82 said:Sudbury South (Babergh)*
Cresswell (Lab) 336
Sudbury (Con) 335
Welsh (Lib) 116
Lab gain from Con
*I confess I don't have a clue on where Babergh is0 -
If Labour gains at the expense of the SNP and the Tories hold close to a third of the vote that is good for UnionismRobD said:
Good for Yes, no doubt.SouthamObserver said:Looks like a good night for Labour in the Scottish by-elections.
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Neither were MPswilliamglenn said:
On the contrary we often lamented the fact that parliamentarians like Nigel Farage and Daniel Hannan didn't do the jobs they were paid for.HYUFD said:Of course there was not much criticism from the same Remain diehards when all this legislation from the EU was imposed on the UK with barely a whimper from Parliament as has been the case since the 1970s
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Surely the Fourth British Empire?Sunil_Prasannan said:
Surely she will reorganise the United Kingdom into the First Galactic Empire - for a safe and secure societyTheScreamingEagles said:
You miss the salient part of my plan.Sunil_Prasannan said:
But you believe in elected dictatorship - who's the hypocrite now?TheScreamingEagles said:
Enough to stop this obscenity.SouthamObserver said:
Is it too much to hope there are some Tories out there who do genuinely believe in respecting the will of the people? Will all of them really be so supine, so anti-democratic as to wave this through?TheScreamingEagles said:
We're doing this to ensure Parliament is sovereign Leavers have gone curiously quiet.SouthamObserver said:
Mrs May is not a democrat. And obviously the Tory MPs who proclaim their faith in the will of the people will back her. The hypocrisy is rank and utterly predictable. Party before country every single time.TheScreamingEagles said:Sic semper tyrannis.
Can't see Dominic Grieve, Ken Clarke, nor Anna Soubry voting for this, so we need only four other Tory MPs to back democracy.
I want to be the country's first Directly Elected Dictator, I will ask the people to give me those powers, then, and only then, will I assert those powers.
Mrs May is usurping power without a mandate to do so, where was this in her manifesto?
0 -
Yes, fair response!Richard_Tyndall said:
I have to say that is also what I find so scary about the 2004 Civil Contingencies Act which I assume you voted for. It has the power to amend or suspend all legislation except the 1998 Human Rights Act for up to 30 days on the say so of a minister.NickPalmer said:
The wording allows them to redefine the endpoint. And indeed to redefine anything else - at present, for instance, the powers don't allow them to alter human rights legislation without asking Parliament, but they allow them to alter that clause without consulting Parliament, after which they can.Richard_Tyndall said:
Got to say I am distinctly uncomfortable with the idea of the Government taking these powers. My only consolation is the time limit as my understanding is that they will only be until we actually exit. Even so I think I would be very happy if this part of the bill was amended to put in a lot more safeguards or to find an alternative way to deal with the issue of all the law changes.SouthamObserver said:
Nope. You do not believe in democracy. The people voted in June. The result was that no party received a majority. The Tory government now seeks to undermine the verdict they delivered. It has nothing to do with me, the EU, Leave or Remain.
I would also say that given his record I would trust Davis to stick to his word over the limits of how these would be used. The trouble is I don't trust many other Tories right now and have no faith Davis would be there come Brexit to make sure things were done properly and the powers handed back.
I don't think they inten to right now, but at somne point they or another government will find itself in an emergency and will be tempted.0 -
Election maps UK reckons Labour have never won this seat.slade said:
Not true, they won the county council seat.bigjohnowls said:
Labour has never won here ever.Sunil_Prasannan said:
It contains the town of Sudbury, Suffolk. Visited the branch line railway way back in 2011AndreaParma_82 said:Sudbury South (Babergh)*
Cresswell (Lab) 336
Sudbury (Con) 335
Welsh (Lib) 116
Lab gain from Con
*I confess I don't have a clue on where Babergh is
Is County Council seat the same boundaries?0 -
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:Lib-Dems NOT Winning There...HYUFD said:
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The Sudburys do not have a happy record. Simon of that ilk was chancellor of England but was killed by the peasants in the revolt of 1381.slade said:
Amazing that Sudbury could not win in Sudbury!Sunil_Prasannan said:
It contains the town of Sudbury, Suffolk. Visited the branch line railway way back in 2011AndreaParma_82 said:Sudbury South (Babergh)*
Cresswell (Lab) 336
Sudbury (Con) 335
Welsh (Lib) 116
Lab gain from Con
*I confess I don't have a clue on where Babergh is0 -
You were talking about European legislation. They were/are members of the parliament that scrutinises it.HYUFD said:
Neither were MPswilliamglenn said:
On the contrary we often lamented the fact that parliamentarians like Nigel Farage and Daniel Hannan didn't do the jobs they were paid for.HYUFD said:Of course there was not much criticism from the same Remain diehards when all this legislation from the EU was imposed on the UK with barely a whimper from Parliament as has been the case since the 1970s
0 -
Just been watching Polly on Newsnight... Don't think she's a fan of JRM? 0
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Of which British members were a minoritywilliamglenn said:
You were talking about European legislation. They were/are members of the parliament that scrutinises it.HYUFD said:
Neither were MPswilliamglenn said:
On the contrary we often lamented the fact that parliamentarians like Nigel Farage and Daniel Hannan didn't do the jobs they were paid for.HYUFD said:Of course there was not much criticism from the same Remain diehards when all this legislation from the EU was imposed on the UK with barely a whimper from Parliament as has been the case since the 1970s
0 -
Lab gain Hednesford Green Heath from Con.0
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Green gain Lewes from Con0
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I am going to guess the feeling is mutual from chumley-Warner.GIN1138 said:Just been watching Polly on Newsnight... Don't think she's a fan of JRM?
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And I think you'll find those two didn't just vote in favour of all legislation that was passed. Yet it passed anyway not with the votes necessarily of our nation.williamglenn said:
You were talking about European legislation. They were/are members of the parliament that scrutinises it.HYUFD said:
Neither were MPswilliamglenn said:
On the contrary we often lamented the fact that parliamentarians like Nigel Farage and Daniel Hannan didn't do the jobs they were paid for.HYUFD said:Of course there was not much criticism from the same Remain diehards when all this legislation from the EU was imposed on the UK with barely a whimper from Parliament as has been the case since the 1970s
0 -
It's a terrrrrrrrrible night for the Tories:
https://twitter.com/andrewteale/status/9059383238223011840 -
Just woke up to a Thursday night massacre!CarlottaVance said:It's a terrrrrrrrrible night for the Tories:
https://twitter.com/andrewteale/status/9059383238223011840 -
As the locals showed earlier this year, local by-elections don't tell us muchsurbiton said:
Just woke up to a Thursday night massacre!CarlottaVance said:It's a terrrrrrrrrible night for the Tories:
https://twitter.com/andrewteale/status/905938323822301184
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The Tories should appeal to the ECHR. This kind of massacre must be against basic human rights.RobD said:
As the locals showed earlier this year, local by-elections don't tell us muchsurbiton said:
Just woke up to a Thursday night massacre!CarlottaVance said:It's a terrrrrrrrrible night for the Tories:
https://twitter.com/andrewteale/status/905938323822301184
But you don't believe in ECHR !0 -
Yeah, thank god the ECHR came along in 1953 and turned us from our savage ways.surbiton said:
The Tories should appeal to the ECHR. This kind of massacre must be against basic human rights.RobD said:
As the locals showed earlier this year, local by-elections don't tell us muchsurbiton said:
Just woke up to a Thursday night massacre!CarlottaVance said:It's a terrrrrrrrrible night for the Tories:
https://twitter.com/andrewteale/status/905938323822301184
But you don't believe in ECHR !0 -
Hmm... Britain gets stuck in the window while trying to climb out after leaving a message for its partner on an unsuccessful date?foxinsoxuk said:What we need is nighthawks back. It is the only place for stories like this.
https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/9058916512012451900 -
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4386068/no-tory-mps-will-rebel-on-eu-repeal-bill-claims-leading-remainer-anna-soubry-after-theresa-may-warns-backbenchers-not-to-thwart-brexit/TheScreamingEagles said:
Enough to stop this obscenity.SouthamObserver said:
Is it too much to hope there are some Tories out there who do genuinely believe in respecting the will of the people? Will all of them really be so supine, so anti-democratic as to wave this through?TheScreamingEagles said:
We're doing this to ensure Parliament is sovereign Leavers have gone curiously quiet.SouthamObserver said:
Mrs May is not a democrat. And obviously the Tory MPs who proclaim their faith in the will of the people will back her. The hypocrisy is rank and utterly predictable. Party before country every single time.TheScreamingEagles said:Sic semper tyrannis.
Can't see Dominic Grieve, Ken Clarke, nor Anna Soubry voting for this, so we need only four other Tory MPs to back democracy.0 -
Does anyone think Trump's recent flirtation with Democrats could be an insurance policy against impeachment proceedings in 2019 ? He is definitely moving away from Republicans.0
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Soubry: "I am cross... that people said there was any chance people like me were going to vote against it.Charles said:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4386068/no-tory-mps-will-rebel-on-eu-repeal-bill-claims-leading-remainer-anna-soubry-after-theresa-may-warns-backbenchers-not-to-thwart-brexit/TheScreamingEagles said:
Enough to stop this obscenity.SouthamObserver said:
Is it too much to hope there are some Tories out there who do genuinely believe in respecting the will of the people? Will all of them really be so supine, so anti-democratic as to wave this through?TheScreamingEagles said:
We're doing this to ensure Parliament is sovereign Leavers have gone curiously quiet.SouthamObserver said:
Mrs May is not a democrat. And obviously the Tory MPs who proclaim their faith in the will of the people will back her. The hypocrisy is rank and utterly predictable. Party before country every single time.TheScreamingEagles said:Sic semper tyrannis.
Can't see Dominic Grieve, Ken Clarke, nor Anna Soubry voting for this, so we need only four other Tory MPs to back democracy.0 -
Don't let facts get in the wayCarlottaVance said:
Soubry: "I am cross... that people said there was any chance people like me were going to vote against it.Charles said:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4386068/no-tory-mps-will-rebel-on-eu-repeal-bill-claims-leading-remainer-anna-soubry-after-theresa-may-warns-backbenchers-not-to-thwart-brexit/TheScreamingEagles said:
Enough to stop this obscenity.SouthamObserver said:
Is it too much to hope there are some Tories out there who do genuinely believe in respecting the will of the people? Will all of them really be so supine, so anti-democratic as to wave this through?TheScreamingEagles said:
We're doing this to ensure Parliament is sovereign Leavers have gone curiously quiet.SouthamObserver said:
Mrs May is not a democrat. And obviously the Tory MPs who proclaim their faith in the will of the people will back her. The hypocrisy is rank and utterly predictable. Party before country every single time.TheScreamingEagles said:Sic semper tyrannis.
Can't see Dominic Grieve, Ken Clarke, nor Anna Soubry voting for this, so we need only four other Tory MPs to back democracy.0 -
Other than repeating stats of the racial make up of the prison population (which we already knew) there isn't any facts presented in the bbc report to backup the claim of old Mr mastermind of racial bias,
BAME offenders: Bias 'needs to be tackled'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-411913110
This discussion has been closed.