politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » YouGov finds 7 out 10 voters, and 4 out 10 Tories don’t Mrs Ma
Options
politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » YouGov finds 7 out 10 voters, and 4 out 10 Tories don’t Mrs May to fight the next general election
YouGov poll for The Sunday times finds 7 out 10 voters, and 4 out 10 Tories don't want Mrs May to fight the next general election.
0
Comments
-
The crosby story isn't new info. We talked about it on here at the time.0
-
Yes, but this is it being leaked in its entirety, previously we only knew it existed, but not what it specifically said.FrancisUrquhart said:The crosby story isn't new info. We talked about it on here at the time.
0 -
Interesting that more voters want May to fight the next general election than go now, though most still want a new Tory leader in place by then0
-
6 out of 10 Tories want May to fight the next election? Gluttons for punishment!0
-
May has got to go.
When she finally does go and people look back, they will realise just how cosmically bad she is.
For now, some weird spell of inertia captivates the Tory party.0 -
I'm assuming those voters that want Mrs May to fight the next election contains a big chunk of Labour and Lib Dem supporters.0
-
Did we?FrancisUrquhart said:The crosby story isn't new info. We talked about it on here at the time.
Smacks of desperate aftertiming from a guy who is now basically unemployable.0 -
Not when 60% of Tories want her to fight the next general electionTheScreamingEagles said:I'm assuming those voters that want Mrs May to fight the next election contains a big chunk of Labour and Lib Dem supporters.
0 -
Don't tempt fate. The final two could be Rees-Mogg and Priti Patel.Jonathan said:When she finally does go and people look back, they will realise just how cosmically bad she is.
0 -
I guess the question is
'How dumb are Tory MPs?'
Do they believe what is in the papers?
Do they allow 'opinion formers' to manipulate them?
Are they keen on quick and long term trip to powerless obscurity?
If they can answer yes to these three questions, then there may be an overloaded postman in Westminster. If they can't, another weeks headlines are destined for the recycle bin or chippie.0 -
Will they? When faced with Boris v Corbyn at the next general election some may look back with nostalgiaJonathan said:May has got to go.
When she finally does go and people look back, they will realise just how cosmically bad she is.
For now, some weird spell of inertia captivates the Tory party.0 -
Yes we did.Pong said:
Did we?FrancisUrquhart said:The crosby story isn't new info. We talked about it on here at the time.
Smacks of desperate aftertiming from a guy who is now basically unemployable.0 -
Those 2 will more likely be the frontrunners for next Tory opposition leaderwilliamglenn said:
Don't tempt fate. The final two could be Rees-Mogg and Priti Patel.Jonathan said:When she finally does go and people look back, they will realise just how cosmically bad she is.
0 -
Don't assume 60% of Tories want Mrs May to fight the next election.
Whilst 40% might want her to fight the next election, of that 60% might include a significant chunk of Don't Knows.0 -
The most important thing is keeping the old commie out of No.10 for as long as possible. I despise May for blowing her shot at a historic landslide, but I'd rather have a thousand years of May than a single day of Jeremy-fecking-Corbyn!0
-
You have answered my question of why 6 out of 10 Tories want May to fight the next election. It's not that party members want Rees-Mogg. They think other members might select him. Even May is a better prospect.williamglenn said:
Don't tempt fate. The final two could be Rees-Mogg and Priti Patel.Jonathan said:When she finally does go and people look back, they will realise just how cosmically bad she is.
0 -
I think we have enough experience of her to know that she isn't a good campaigner as the front man for a national campaign facing daily TV, electors, crowds and reporters. She may well be very good in a low key Maidenhaed election, but that isn't the same thing. She isn't a free thinking natural debater, she has a rather wooden personality on TV. Lightness and positivity do not radiate freely from her.TheScreamingEagles said:Don't assume 60% of Tories want Mrs May to fight the next election.
Whilst 40% might want her to fight the next election, of that 60% might include a significant chunk of Don't Knows.
I would find it astonishing if she leads the Tory party into an election again.
So saying, as you need to dissolve parliament to hold an election, we come back to the fixed term parliament act. Was there a sunset clause in the fixed term parliament act? Something tells me at the back of my head that there was, but I am not sure.0 -
Antifa
Whenever I read that, I first think it stands for "AntiFatcha"
Maybe it does.
0 -
If we want an election before 2022 we will need a vote in Parliament.philiph said:
I think we have enough experience of her to know that she isn't a good campaigner as the front man for a national campaign facing daily TV, electors, crowds and reporters. She may well be very good in a low key Maidenhaed election, but that isn't the same thing. She isn't a free thinking natural debater, she has a rather wooden personality on TV. Lightness and positivity do not radiate freely from her.TheScreamingEagles said:Don't assume 60% of Tories want Mrs May to fight the next election.
Whilst 40% might want her to fight the next election, of that 60% might include a significant chunk of Don't Knows.
I would find it astonishing if she leads the Tory party into an election again.
So saying, as you need to dissolve parliament to hold an election, we come back to the fixed term parliament act. Was there a sunset clause in the fixed term parliament act? Something tells me at the back of my head that there was, but I am not sure.
The sunset clause will now kick in after that election.0 -
There is nothing surprising in these figures. Only 23% want her to go now and with Brexit she is in as strong a position as ever.
But she will not lead into the 2022 election. Sometime between August 2019 and spring 2020 she will stand down or be pushed0 -
0
-
I'm feeling quite confident about my bet that Mrs May will be gone by the start of the 2018 summer recess.0
-
I don't think it is blindness to her imperfections that is the problem, it's the fact that there is no alternative. If you think she is useless, imagine what Fox or Davis or Johnson would be like.Jonathan said:May has got to go.
When she finally does go and people look back, they will realise just how cosmically bad she is.
For now, some weird spell of inertia captivates the Tory party.0 -
And why would any conservative want to take on Brexit. Still stick to my Autumn 2019 to Spring 2020.TheScreamingEagles said:I'm feeling quite confident about my bet that Mrs May will be gone by the start of the 2018 summer recess.
Her biggest failure is her inability to express herself well and I do not believe she can do anything about that0 -
“The stakes are very high for her,” one David Davis ally said. “If she has one more fumble she’s finished. She’s a wasting asset who’s chained to a radiator in Number 10.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/02/long-can-theresa-may-hang-pms-supporters-will-remind-mps-real/0 -
May's situation is very similar to Corbyn's. She appeals to quite a lot of people, but not enough to win. But her rivals don't appeal to anyone.FF43 said:6 out of 10 Tories want May to fight the next election? Gluttons for punishment!
0 -
To be replaced by whom? For what purpose? In what way will transferring the leadership either help the party or the reputation of the next leader, who would then be tarnished with the unavoidable messiness of the Brexit deal?TheScreamingEagles said:I'm feeling quite confident about my bet that Mrs May will be gone by the start of the 2018 summer recess.
Far better for both the party and the leadership hopefuls to let May draw off all the poison of Brexit so the next leader won't be immediately toxified by it.
Again, I've go no love for the loser May. But I'll be damned if we lose the country to Momentum just because some Tories want her out immediately due to personal dislike.0 -
There are several labour MPs who would appeal more than Corbyn, Thornberry on the left, Starmer and Cooper.Recidivist said:
May's situation is very similar to Corbyn's. She appeals to quite a lot of people, but not enough to win. But her rivals don't appeal to anyone.FF43 said:6 out of 10 Tories want May to fight the next election? Gluttons for punishment!
0 -
It looks like the government might not have the votes for its planned Henry VIII clauses.
If Mrs May loses parliamentary votes on something that fundamental then she's a goner.0 -
If she can't get that bill through then surely Brexit is a goner too?TheScreamingEagles said:It looks like the government might not have the votes for its planned Henry VIII clauses.
If Mrs May loses parliamentary votes on something that fundamental then she's a goner.0 -
Because I, and many others, have no faith in Mrs May being able to deliver a decent Brexit, a bad Brexit increases the chances of Corbyn as PM, that's why she needs to go.blueblue said:
To be replaced by whom? For what purpose? In what way will transferring the leadership either help the party or the reputation of the next leader, who would then be tarnished with the unavoidable messiness of the Brexit deal?TheScreamingEagles said:I'm feeling quite confident about my bet that Mrs May will be gone by the start of the 2018 summer recess.
Far better for both the party and the leadership hopefuls to let May draw off all the poison of Brexit so the next leader won't be immediately toxified by it.
Again, I've go no love for the loser May. But I'll be damned if we lose the country to Momentum just because some Tories want her out immediately due to personal dislike.
Just look at her attempted power grab with the Henry VIII clauses.0 -
Nah, it just means we fall out the EU with a very hard Brexit and a legal minefield in the UK come March 2019, which will enrich the legal profession, so it ain't all bad.williamglenn said:
If she can't get that bill through then surely Brexit is a goner too?TheScreamingEagles said:It looks like the government might not have the votes for its planned Henry VIII clauses.
If Mrs May loses parliamentary votes on something that fundamental then she's a goner.0 -
The problem is that any failure to deliver on Brexit will see a huge backlash against those scheming to prevent the democratic vote of the peoplewilliamglenn said:
If she can't get that bill through then surely Brexit is a goner too?TheScreamingEagles said:It looks like the government might not have the votes for its planned Henry VIII clauses.
If Mrs May loses parliamentary votes on something that fundamental then she's a goner.0 -
Labour will win next time with or without May.blueblue said:
To be replaced by whom? For what purpose? In what way will transferring the leadership either help the party or the reputation of the next leader, who would then be tarnished with the unavoidable messiness of the Brexit deal?TheScreamingEagles said:I'm feeling quite confident about my bet that Mrs May will be gone by the start of the 2018 summer recess.
Far better for both the party and the leadership hopefuls to let May draw off all the poison of Brexit so the next leader won't be immediately toxified by it.
Again, I've go no love for the loser May. But I'll be damned if we lose the country to Momentum just because some Tories want her out immediately due to personal dislike.0 -
May and her administration are incompetent. We're at crucial moment. We need better people than this.0
-
Are any of the likely candidates really going to be able to deliver a "decent" Brexit? It's largely out of our hands - we either accede to the EU's demands and avoid an immediate crisis at the price of being humiliated, or we don't and crash out in chaos.TheScreamingEagles said:
Because I, and many others, have no faith in Mrs May being able to deliver a decent Brexit, a bad Brexit increases the chances of Corbyn as PM, that's why she needs to go.blueblue said:
To be replaced by whom? For what purpose? In what way will transferring the leadership either help the party or the reputation of the next leader, who would then be tarnished with the unavoidable messiness of the Brexit deal?TheScreamingEagles said:I'm feeling quite confident about my bet that Mrs May will be gone by the start of the 2018 summer recess.
Far better for both the party and the leadership hopefuls to let May draw off all the poison of Brexit so the next leader won't be immediately toxified by it.
Again, I've go no love for the loser May. But I'll be damned if we lose the country to Momentum just because some Tories want her out immediately due to personal dislike.
Just look at her attempted power grab with the Henry VIII clauses.
For the record, I'd prefer the humiliation! But neither of these outcomes is going to be a vote winner whoever carries it through...0 -
The FDP in 3rd on 10% in the latest poll, in the poll before that the AfD in 3rd on 11% and Die Linke in 4th in both on 9%. Looks tight for third but the CDU has a lead of 10%+ over the SPD and unless Merkel completely blows the debate tomorrow she will be back as ChancellorAndyJS said:Latest German polls:
http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/0 -
More likely a huge backlash against the incompetents who are supposed to be running the country.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The problem is that any failure to deliver on Brexit will see a huge backlash against those scheming to prevent the democratic vote of the peoplewilliamglenn said:
If she can't get that bill through then surely Brexit is a goner too?TheScreamingEagles said:It looks like the government might not have the votes for its planned Henry VIII clauses.
If Mrs May loses parliamentary votes on something that fundamental then she's a goner.0 -
That's about 90% likely, yes. So clearly the best strategy is to put off doomsday as long as possible (all the way up to 2022 if we can), slot in a young leader untarnished by Brexit in 2021, and fight on as fresh a platform as we can.Benpointer said:
Labour will win next time with or without May.blueblue said:
To be replaced by whom? For what purpose? In what way will transferring the leadership either help the party or the reputation of the next leader, who would then be tarnished with the unavoidable messiness of the Brexit deal?TheScreamingEagles said:I'm feeling quite confident about my bet that Mrs May will be gone by the start of the 2018 summer recess.
Far better for both the party and the leadership hopefuls to let May draw off all the poison of Brexit so the next leader won't be immediately toxified by it.
Again, I've go no love for the loser May. But I'll be damned if we lose the country to Momentum just because some Tories want her out immediately due to personal dislike.
But change leaders and risk and election now? Hell no!0 -
Very well put.blueblue said:
Are any of the likely candidates really going to be able to deliver a "decent" Brexit? It's largely out of our hands - we either accede to the EU's demands and avoid an immediate crisis at the price of being humiliated, or we don't and crash out in chaos.TheScreamingEagles said:
Because I, and many others, have no faith in Mrs May being able to deliver a decent Brexit, a bad Brexit increases the chances of Corbyn as PM, that's why she needs to go.blueblue said:
To be replaced by whom? For what purpose? In what way will transferring the leadership either help the party or the reputation of the next leader, who would then be tarnished with the unavoidable messiness of the Brexit deal?TheScreamingEagles said:I'm feeling quite confident about my bet that Mrs May will be gone by the start of the 2018 summer recess.
Far better for both the party and the leadership hopefuls to let May draw off all the poison of Brexit so the next leader won't be immediately toxified by it.
Again, I've go no love for the loser May. But I'll be damned if we lose the country to Momentum just because some Tories want her out immediately due to personal dislike.
Just look at her attempted power grab with the Henry VIII clauses.
For the record, I'd prefer the humiliation! But neither of these outcomes is going to be a vote winner whoever carries it through...0 -
Most likely it will be a year or two transition then full Brexit, out of the single market and an end to free movement. The new Tory Leader will likely call a general in 2020 to either back that or Labour's plan to stay in the single market for 4-5+ years post Brexit with free movement continuing unchecked throughoutblueblue said:
Are any of the likely candidates really going to be able to deliver a "decent" Brexit? It's largely out of our hands - we either accede to the EU's demands and avoid an immediate crisis at the price of being humiliated, or we don't and crash out in chaos.TheScreamingEagles said:
Because I, and many others, have no faith in Mrs May being able to deliver a decent Brexit, a bad Brexit increases the chances of Corbyn as PM, that's why she needs to go.blueblue said:
To be replaced by whom? For what purpose? In what way will transferring the leadership either help the party or the reputation of the next leader, who would then be tarnished with the unavoidable messiness of the Brexit deal?TheScreamingEagles said:I'm feeling quite confident about my bet that Mrs May will be gone by the start of the 2018 summer recess.
Far better for both the party and the leadership hopefuls to let May draw off all the poison of Brexit so the next leader won't be immediately toxified by it.
Again, I've go no love for the loser May. But I'll be damned if we lose the country to Momentum just because some Tories want her out immediately due to personal dislike.
Just look at her attempted power grab with the Henry VIII clauses.
For the record, I'd prefer the humiliation! But neither of these outcomes is going to be a vote winner whoever carries it through...0 -
Really? They could only tie the Tories on 42% each in the latest poll from ICM last weekBenpointer said:
Labour will win next time with or without May.blueblue said:
To be replaced by whom? For what purpose? In what way will transferring the leadership either help the party or the reputation of the next leader, who would then be tarnished with the unavoidable messiness of the Brexit deal?TheScreamingEagles said:I'm feeling quite confident about my bet that Mrs May will be gone by the start of the 2018 summer recess.
Far better for both the party and the leadership hopefuls to let May draw off all the poison of Brexit so the next leader won't be immediately toxified by it.
Again, I've go no love for the loser May. But I'll be damned if we lose the country to Momentum just because some Tories want her out immediately due to personal dislike.0 -
Yes I agree, from a Tory perspective that would be madness (so not totally impossible lol!). They have somehow painted themselves into a corner now - May can stay for just as long as she likes and I suspect she's stubborn enough to fight the next election.blueblue said:
That's about 90% likely, yes. So clearly the best strategy is to put off doomsday as long as possible (all the way up to 2022 if we can), slot in a young leader untarnished by Brexit in 2021, and fight on as fresh a platform as we can.Benpointer said:
Labour will win next time with or without May.blueblue said:
To be replaced by whom? For what purpose? In what way will transferring the leadership either help the party or the reputation of the next leader, who would then be tarnished with the unavoidable messiness of the Brexit deal?TheScreamingEagles said:I'm feeling quite confident about my bet that Mrs May will be gone by the start of the 2018 summer recess.
Far better for both the party and the leadership hopefuls to let May draw off all the poison of Brexit so the next leader won't be immediately toxified by it.
Again, I've go no love for the loser May. But I'll be damned if we lose the country to Momentum just because some Tories want her out immediately due to personal dislike.
But change leaders and risk and election now? Hell no!0 -
That sounds like a decent plan on paper, but I'm afraid that in that circumstance we'd lose, and maybe lose badly. They don't call me blueblue for nothing!HYUFD said:
Most likely it will be a year or two transition then full Brexit, out of the single market and an end to free movement. The new Tory Leader will likely call a general in 2020 to either back that or Labour's plan to stay in the single market for 4-5+ years post Brexit with free movement continuing unchecked throughoutblueblue said:
Are any of the likely candidates really going to be able to deliver a "decent" Brexit? It's largely out of our hands - we either accede to the EU's demands and avoid an immediate crisis at the price of being humiliated, or we don't and crash out in chaos.TheScreamingEagles said:
Because I, and many others, have no faith in Mrs May being able to deliver a decent Brexit, a bad Brexit increases the chances of Corbyn as PM, that's why she needs to go.blueblue said:
To be replaced by whom? For what purpose? In what way will transferring the leadership either help the party or the reputation of the next leader, who would then be tarnished with the unavoidable messiness of the Brexit deal?TheScreamingEagles said:I'm feeling quite confident about my bet that Mrs May will be gone by the start of the 2018 summer recess.
Far better for both the party and the leadership hopefuls to let May draw off all the poison of Brexit so the next leader won't be immediately toxified by it.
Again, I've go no love for the loser May. But I'll be damned if we lose the country to Momentum just because some Tories want her out immediately due to personal dislike.
Just look at her attempted power grab with the Henry VIII clauses.
For the record, I'd prefer the humiliation! But neither of these outcomes is going to be a vote winner whoever carries it through...0 -
Am I the only one who remembers Mike's thread from March this year?
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2017/03/30/can-we-end-this-snap-election-speculation-tmay-like-dave-before-simply-does-not-have-the-power-to-call-one/0 -
I admire your confidence - nothing today is as certain as you see itBenpointer said:
Labour will win next time with or without May.blueblue said:
To be replaced by whom? For what purpose? In what way will transferring the leadership either help the party or the reputation of the next leader, who would then be tarnished with the unavoidable messiness of the Brexit deal?TheScreamingEagles said:I'm feeling quite confident about my bet that Mrs May will be gone by the start of the 2018 summer recess.
Far better for both the party and the leadership hopefuls to let May draw off all the poison of Brexit so the next leader won't be immediately toxified by it.
Again, I've go no love for the loser May. But I'll be damned if we lose the country to Momentum just because some Tories want her out immediately due to personal dislike.0 -
I would like Mrs.May to fight the next election since she is the Prime Minister.TheScreamingEagles said:I'm assuming those voters that want Mrs May to fight the next election contains a big chunk of Labour and Lib Dem supporters.
0 -
The question is who in the Tory party is best placed to form a half decent administration. Someone who can pull in talent and organise.0
-
I base my assertion on the natural long terms swings between the main parties of this country that seem to have been fairly consistent for the past 200 years, with a few exceptions.HYUFD said:
Really? They could only tie the Tories on 42% each in the latest poll from ICM last weekBenpointer said:
Labour will win next time with or without May.blueblue said:
To be replaced by whom? For what purpose? In what way will transferring the leadership either help the party or the reputation of the next leader, who would then be tarnished with the unavoidable messiness of the Brexit deal?TheScreamingEagles said:I'm feeling quite confident about my bet that Mrs May will be gone by the start of the 2018 summer recess.
Far better for both the party and the leadership hopefuls to let May draw off all the poison of Brexit so the next leader won't be immediately toxified by it.
Again, I've go no love for the loser May. But I'll be damned if we lose the country to Momentum just because some Tories want her out immediately due to personal dislike.
Once the party of government starts losing seats it seldom recovers until after a period of opposition.
I'd bet Labour would gain >5% during any election campaign, thay have the ground game, better social media tactics and (excuse the pun) momentum on their side.0 -
Not if the EU are seen to be the causeBenpointer said:
More likely a huge backlash against the incompetents who are supposed to be running the country.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The problem is that any failure to deliver on Brexit will see a huge backlash against those scheming to prevent the democratic vote of the peoplewilliamglenn said:
If she can't get that bill through then surely Brexit is a goner too?TheScreamingEagles said:It looks like the government might not have the votes for its planned Henry VIII clauses.
If Mrs May loses parliamentary votes on something that fundamental then she's a goner.0 -
Watching her hang on by the nail on her right index finger is the only thing that's making politics during the Brexit debacle bearable. Cheer up and listen to this in German......Jonathan said:May has got to go.
When she finally does go and people look back, they will realise just how cosmically bad she is.
For now, some weird spell of inertia captivates the Tory party.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=lena+99+luftbaloons&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b&gfe_rd=cr&dcr=0&ei=biarWdLWLqHA8gfw-rSQBw0 -
-
In an ideal world.williamglenn said:
Don't tempt fate. The final two could be Rees-Mogg and Priti Patel.Jonathan said:When she finally does go and people look back, they will realise just how cosmically bad she is.
0 -
Sounds about right to me also, but I reckon that the Government will spit the dummy, and we get WTO Brexit.blueblue said:
Are any of the likely candidates really going to be able to deliver a "decent" Brexit? It's largely out of our hands - we either accede to the EU's demands and avoid an immediate crisis at the price of being humiliated, or we don't and crash out in chaos.TheScreamingEagles said:
Because I, and many others, have no faith in Mrs May being able to deliver a decent Brexit, a bad Brexit increases the chances of Corbyn as PM, that's why she needs to go.blueblue said:
To be replaced by whom? For what purpose? In what way will transferring the leadership either help the party or the reputation of the next leader, who would then be tarnished with the unavoidable messiness of the Brexit deal?TheScreamingEagles said:I'm feeling quite confident about my bet that Mrs May will be gone by the start of the 2018 summer recess.
Far better for both the party and the leadership hopefuls to let May draw off all the poison of Brexit so the next leader won't be immediately toxified by it.
Again, I've go no love for the loser May. But I'll be damned if we lose the country to Momentum just because some Tories want her out immediately due to personal dislike.
Just look at her attempted power grab with the Henry VIII clauses.
For the record, I'd prefer the humiliation! But neither of these outcomes is going to be a vote winner whoever carries it through...0 -
And people say Brexit is boring. As a Confucianist I say these are interesting times.blueblue said:
Are any of the likely candidates really going to be able to deliver a "decent" Brexit? It's largely out of our hands - we either accede to the EU's demands and avoid an immediate crisis at the price of being humiliated, or we don't and crash out in chaos.TheScreamingEagles said:
Because I, and many others, have no faith in Mrs May being able to deliver a decent Brexit, a bad Brexit increases the chances of Corbyn as PM, that's why she needs to go.blueblue said:
To be replaced by whom? For what purpose? In what way will transferring the leadership either help the party or the reputation of the next leader, who would then be tarnished with the unavoidable messiness of the Brexit deal?TheScreamingEagles said:I'm feeling quite confident about my bet that Mrs May will be gone by the start of the 2018 summer recess.
Far better for both the party and the leadership hopefuls to let May draw off all the poison of Brexit so the next leader won't be immediately toxified by it.
Again, I've go no love for the loser May. But I'll be damned if we lose the country to Momentum just because some Tories want her out immediately due to personal dislike.
Just look at her attempted power grab with the Henry VIII clauses.
For the record, I'd prefer the humiliation! But neither of these outcomes is going to be a vote winner whoever carries it through...0 -
As has been said many times before, the EU's stance has been entirely predictable. Of course the Mail and hard core leavers will blame the EU but I suspect many who voted leave and nearly all remain voters will blame our UK government.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not if the EU are seen to be the causeBenpointer said:
More likely a huge backlash against the incompetents who are supposed to be running the country.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The problem is that any failure to deliver on Brexit will see a huge backlash against those scheming to prevent the democratic vote of the peoplewilliamglenn said:
If she can't get that bill through then surely Brexit is a goner too?TheScreamingEagles said:It looks like the government might not have the votes for its planned Henry VIII clauses.
If Mrs May loses parliamentary votes on something that fundamental then she's a goner.0 -
The Tories will try to pin the collapse on the EU, but I cannot see them getting it to stick.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not if the EU are seen to be the causeBenpointer said:
More likely a huge backlash against the incompetents who are supposed to be running the country.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The problem is that any failure to deliver on Brexit will see a huge backlash against those scheming to prevent the democratic vote of the peoplewilliamglenn said:
If she can't get that bill through then surely Brexit is a goner too?TheScreamingEagles said:It looks like the government might not have the votes for its planned Henry VIII clauses.
If Mrs May loses parliamentary votes on something that fundamental then she's a goner.0 -
Not as simple as that - depends on the narrative but I can understand you expressing your desired outcomeBenpointer said:
As has been said many times before, the EU's stance has been entirely predictable. Of course the Mail and hard core leavers will blame the EU but I suspect many who voted leave and nearly all remain voters will blame our UK government.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not if the EU are seen to be the causeBenpointer said:
More likely a huge backlash against the incompetents who are supposed to be running the country.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The problem is that any failure to deliver on Brexit will see a huge backlash against those scheming to prevent the democratic vote of the peoplewilliamglenn said:
If she can't get that bill through then surely Brexit is a goner too?TheScreamingEagles said:It looks like the government might not have the votes for its planned Henry VIII clauses.
If Mrs May loses parliamentary votes on something that fundamental then she's a goner.0 -
Would buy a used trade deal off this man?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/09/02/trump-plans-withdrawal-from-south-korea-trade-deal0 -
Nobel Peace Prize Committee should take back Aung San Suu Kyi's award. She is orchestrating or certainly overlooking genocide.0
-
Sadly I agree that looks most likely. Who then in the Tory party will want to take over from May to fight a GE on the back of rock hard Brexit? Nope, they'll let May lose that one, and let Labour deal with the post-Brexit mess.foxinsoxuk said:
Sounds about right to me also, but I reckon that the Government will spit the dummy, and we get WTO Brexit.blueblue said:
Are any of the likely candidates really going to be able to deliver a "decent" Brexit? It's largely out of our hands - we either accede to the EU's demands and avoid an immediate crisis at the price of being humiliated, or we don't and crash out in chaos.TheScreamingEagles said:
Because I, and many others, have no faith in Mrs May being able to deliver a decent Brexit, a bad Brexit increases the chances of Corbyn as PM, that's why she needs to go.blueblue said:
To be replaced by whom? For what purpose? In what way will transferring the leadership either help the party or the reputation of the next leader, who would then be tarnished with the unavoidable messiness of the Brexit deal?TheScreamingEagles said:I'm feeling quite confident about my bet that Mrs May will be gone by the start of the 2018 summer recess.
Far better for both the party and the leadership hopefuls to let May draw off all the poison of Brexit so the next leader won't be immediately toxified by it.
Again, I've go no love for the loser May. But I'll be damned if we lose the country to Momentum just because some Tories want her out immediately due to personal dislike.
Just look at her attempted power grab with the Henry VIII clauses.
For the record, I'd prefer the humiliation! But neither of these outcomes is going to be a vote winner whoever carries it through...0 -
Trump's trade deal is simple: America First.williamglenn said:Would buy a used trade deal off this man?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/09/02/trump-plans-withdrawal-from-south-korea-trade-deal0 -
If Corbyn goes into the next general election promising uncontrolled free movement for probably the whole of the next Parliament Labour Leavers in the North and Midlands who stuck with him last time may start to have second thoughts, working class Labour voters voting Leave were mainly doing so to reduce immigrationblueblue said:
That sounds like a decent plan on paper, but I'm afraid that in that circumstance we'd lose, and maybe lose badly. They don't call me blueblue for nothing!HYUFD said:
Most likely it will be a year or two transition then full Brexit, out of the single market and an end to free movement. The new Tory Leader will likely call a general in 2020 to either back that or Labour's plan to stay in the single market for 4-5+ years post Brexit with free movement continuing unchecked throughoutblueblue said:
Are any of the likely candidates really going to be able to deliver a "decent" Brexit? It's largely out of our hands - we either accede to the EU's demands and avoid an immediate crisis at the price of being humiliated, or we don't and crash out in chaos.TheScreamingEagles said:
Because I, and many others, have no faith in Mrs May being able to deliver a decent Brexit, a bad Brexit increases the chances of Corbyn as PM, that's why she needs to go.blueblue said:
To be replaced by whom? For what purpose? In what way will transferring the leadership either help the party or the reputation of the next leader, who would then be tarnished with the unavoidable messiness of the Brexit deal?TheScreamingEagles said:I'm feeling quite confident about my bet that Mrs May will be gone by the start of the 2018 summer recess.
Far better for both the party and the leadership hopefuls to let May draw off all the poison of Brexit so the next leader won't be immediately toxified by it.
Again, I've go no love for the loser May. But I'll be damned if we lose the country to Momentum just because some Tories want her out immediately due to personal dislike.
Just look at her attempted power grab with the Henry VIII clauses.
For the record, I'd prefer the humiliation! But neither of these outcomes is going to be a vote winner whoever carries it through...0 -
If 70% of all voters do not want Theresa May to take the conservatives into the next GE it is more than probable that a considerable majority want to see a leader who can take on and beat Corbyn0
-
Well, I am sure there is some of thatBig_G_NorthWales said:
Not as simple as that - depends on the narrative but I can understand you expressing your desired outcomeBenpointer said:
As has been said many times before, the EU's stance has been entirely predictable. Of course the Mail and hard core leavers will blame the EU but I suspect many who voted leave and nearly all remain voters will blame our UK government.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not if the EU are seen to be the causeBenpointer said:
More likely a huge backlash against the incompetents who are supposed to be running the country.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The problem is that any failure to deliver on Brexit will see a huge backlash against those scheming to prevent the democratic vote of the peoplewilliamglenn said:
If she can't get that bill through then surely Brexit is a goner too?TheScreamingEagles said:It looks like the government might not have the votes for its planned Henry VIII clauses.
If Mrs May loses parliamentary votes on something that fundamental then she's a goner.
0 -
The Tories won a general election in 1992 after 13 years in power, having lost seats in 1987 and during a recession as enough voters did not want Kinnock as PM, Corbyn may have the same problemBenpointer said:
I base my assertion on the natural long terms swings between the main parties of this country that seem to have been fairly consistent for the past 200 years, with a few exceptions.HYUFD said:
Really? They could only tie the Tories on 42% each in the latest poll from ICM last weekBenpointer said:
Labour will win next time with or without May.blueblue said:
To be replaced by whom? For what purpose? In what way will transferring the leadership either help the party or the reputation of the next leader, who would then be tarnished with the unavoidable messiness of the Brexit deal?TheScreamingEagles said:I'm feeling quite confident about my bet that Mrs May will be gone by the start of the 2018 summer recess.
Far better for both the party and the leadership hopefuls to let May draw off all the poison of Brexit so the next leader won't be immediately toxified by it.
Again, I've go no love for the loser May. But I'll be damned if we lose the country to Momentum just because some Tories want her out immediately due to personal dislike.
Once the party of government starts losing seats it seldom recovers until after a period of opposition.
I'd bet Labour would gain >5% during any election campaign, thay have the ground game, better social media tactics and (excuse the pun) momentum on their side.0 -
Again drawing conclusions on speculation. No one can say how this will pan out. You seem to be carried away on the idea labour with Corbyn will win the next GE no matter how matters develop.Benpointer said:
Sadly I agree that looks most likely. Who then in the Tory party will want to take over from May to fight a GE on the back of rock hard Brexit? Nope, they'll let May lose that one, and let Labour deal with the post-Brexit mess.foxinsoxuk said:
Sounds about right to me also, but I reckon that the Government will spit the dummy, and we get WTO Brexit.blueblue said:
Are any of the likely candidates really going to be able to deliver a "decent" Brexit? It's largely out of our hands - we either accede to the EU's demands and avoid an immediate crisis at the price of being humiliated, or we don't and crash out in chaos.TheScreamingEagles said:
Because I, and many others, have no faith in Mrs May being able to deliver a decent Brexit, a bad Brexit increases the chances of Corbyn as PM, that's why she needs to go.blueblue said:
To be replaced by whom? For what purpose? In what way will transferring the leadership either help the party or the reputation of the next leader, who would then be tarnished with the unavoidable messiness of the Brexit deal?TheScreamingEagles said:I'm feeling quite confident about my bet that Mrs May will be gone by the start of the 2018 summer recess.
Far better for both the party and the leadership hopefuls to let May draw off all the poison of Brexit so the next leader won't be immediately toxified by it.
Again, I've go no love for the loser May. But I'll be damned if we lose the country to Momentum just because some Tories want her out immediately due to personal dislike.
Just look at her attempted power grab with the Henry VIII clauses.
For the record, I'd prefer the humiliation! But neither of these outcomes is going to be a vote winner whoever carries it through...0 -
The Nobel Peace prize has been beyond satire since Kissinger won it.surbiton said:Nobel Peace Prize Committee should take back Aung San Suu Kyi's award. She is orchestrating or certainly overlooking genocide.
Burma is a complex place politically. Daw Aung San Suu Kyi does not have sole contol. She has a tiger to ride.0 -
We agree on this Surby. Indeed I just said that to my wife and also reflected on how Bercow's sycophant speech to her in the House of Parliament now looks.surbiton said:Nobel Peace Prize Committee should take back Aung San Suu Kyi's award. She is orchestrating or certainly overlooking genocide.
0 -
I am not really 'carried away' with it Big_G, it's just what I think is most likely to happen. Equally you think there will be a big backlash against the EU if we drop out with a hard Brexit. Neither of us knows, we could both be right, we could both be wrong.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Again drawing conclusions on speculation. No one can say how this will pan out. You seem to be carried away on the idea labour with Corbyn will win the next GE no matter how matters develop.Benpointer said:
Sadly I agree that looks most likely. Who then in the Tory party will want to take over from May to fight a GE on the back of rock hard Brexit? Nope, they'll let May lose that one, and let Labour deal with the post-Brexit mess.foxinsoxuk said:
Sounds about right to me also, but I reckon that the Government will spit the dummy, and we get WTO Brexit.blueblue said:
Are any of the likely candidates really going to be able to deliver a "decent" Brexit? It's largely out of our hands - we either accede to the EU's demands and avoid an immediate crisis at the price of being humiliated, or we don't and crash out in chaos.TheScreamingEagles said:
Because I, and many others, have no faith in Mrs May being able to deliver a decent Brexit, a bad Brexit increases the chances of Corbyn as PM, that's why she needs to go.blueblue said:
To be replaced by whom? For what purpose? In what way will transferring the leadership either help the party or the reputation of the next leader, who would then be tarnished with the unavoidable messiness of the Brexit deal?TheScreamingEagles said:I'm feeling quite confident about my bet that Mrs May will be gone by the start of the 2018 summer recess.
Far better for both the party and the leadership hopefuls to let May draw off all the poison of Brexit so the next leader won't be immediately toxified by it.
Again, I've go no love for the loser May. But I'll be damned if we lose the country to Momentum just because some Tories want her out immediately due to personal dislike.
Just look at her attempted power grab with the Henry VIII clauses.
For the record, I'd prefer the humiliation! But neither of these outcomes is going to be a vote winner whoever carries it through...0 -
The narrative would be (a) to the British public - thanks to the skill and dedication of the Conservative government Brexit is a huge success and it's all the fault of the EU. (b) to the EU: we love you, we love you, we love you. Give us a trade deal. Pretty please? It's all your fault.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not as simple as that - depends on the narrative but I can understand you expressing your desired outcomeBenpointer said:
As has been said many times before, the EU's stance has been entirely predictable. Of course the Mail and hard core leavers will blame the EU but I suspect many who voted leave and nearly all remain voters will blame our UK government.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not if the EU are seen to be the causeBenpointer said:
More likely a huge backlash against the incompetents who are supposed to be running the country.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The problem is that any failure to deliver on Brexit will see a huge backlash against those scheming to prevent the democratic vote of the peoplewilliamglenn said:
If she can't get that bill through then surely Brexit is a goner too?TheScreamingEagles said:It looks like the government might not have the votes for its planned Henry VIII clauses.
If Mrs May loses parliamentary votes on something that fundamental then she's a goner.
Hmm, tricky. As far as the government is concerned Brexit has to be declared a success.0 -
In the great tradition of PB we state our views and in the end come very much to the same conclusionBenpointer said:
I am not really 'carried away' with it Big_G, it's just what I think is most likely to happen. Equally you think there will be a big backlash against the EU if we drop out with a hard Brexit. Neither of us knows, we could both be right, we could both be wrong.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Again drawing conclusions on speculation. No one can say how this will pan out. You seem to be carried away on the idea labour with Corbyn will win the next GE no matter how matters develop.Benpointer said:
Sadly I agree that looks most likely. Who then in the Tory party will want to take over from May to fight a GE on the back of rock hard Brexit? Nope, they'll let May lose that one, and let Labour deal with the post-Brexit mess.foxinsoxuk said:
Sounds about right to me also, but I reckon that the Government will spit the dummy, and we get WTO Brexit.blueblue said:
Are any of the likely candidates really going to be able to deliver a "decent" Brexit? It's largely out of our hands - we either accede to the EU's demands and avoid an immediate crisis at the price of being humiliated, or we don't and crash out in chaos.TheScreamingEagles said:
Because I, and many others, have no faith in Mrs May being able to deliver a decent Brexit, a bad Brexit increases the chances of Corbyn as PM, that's why she needs to go.blueblue said:
To be replaced by whom? For what purpose? In what way will transferring the leadership either help the party or the reputation of the next leader, who would then be tarnished with the unavoidable messiness of the Brexit deal?TheScreamingEagles said:I'm feeling quite confident about my bet that Mrs May will be gone by the start of the 2018 summer recess.
Far better for both the party and the leadership hopefuls to let May draw off all the poison of Brexit so the next leader won't be immediately toxified by it.
Again, I've go no love for the loser May. But I'll be damned if we lose the country to Momentum just because some Tories want her out immediately due to personal dislike.
Just look at her attempted power grab with the Henry VIII clauses.
For the record, I'd prefer the humiliation! But neither of these outcomes is going to be a vote winner whoever carries it through...0 -
Agree with that though there will be many and various views of the success or otherwiseFF43 said:
The narrative would be (a) to the British public - thanks to the skill and dedication of the Conservative government Brexit is a huge success and it's all the fault of the EU. (b) to the EU: we love you, we love you, we love you. Give us a trade deal. Pretty please? It's all your fault.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not as simple as that - depends on the narrative but I can understand you expressing your desired outcomeBenpointer said:
As has been said many times before, the EU's stance has been entirely predictable. Of course the Mail and hard core leavers will blame the EU but I suspect many who voted leave and nearly all remain voters will blame our UK government.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not if the EU are seen to be the causeBenpointer said:
More likely a huge backlash against the incompetents who are supposed to be running the country.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The problem is that any failure to deliver on Brexit will see a huge backlash against those scheming to prevent the democratic vote of the peoplewilliamglenn said:
If she can't get that bill through then surely Brexit is a goner too?TheScreamingEagles said:It looks like the government might not have the votes for its planned Henry VIII clauses.
If Mrs May loses parliamentary votes on something that fundamental then she's a goner.
Hmm, tricky. As far as the government is concerned Brexit has to be declared a success.0 -
May must go!
From the most accurate pollster at the general election, in terms of VI
https://twitter.com/Survation/status/9041050123426611200 -
If declaring it a success is impossible, is it better for them to declare it a bit crap really but the best we could do, or to declare it an abject failure, draw a line under it and pretend it never happened?FF43 said:Hmm, tricky. As far as the government is concerned Brexit has to be declared a success.
0 -
Good point it will be a mighty tricky sell. Who'd be PM eh? No tory other than Theresa fancies it at the mo apparently.FF43 said:
The narrative would be (a) to the British public - thanks to the skill and dedication of the Conservative government Brexit is a huge success and it's all the fault of the EU. (b) to the EU: we love you, we love you, we love you. Give us a trade deal. Pretty please? It's all your fault.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not as simple as that - depends on the narrative but I can understand you expressing your desired outcomeBenpointer said:
As has been said many times before, the EU's stance has been entirely predictable. Of course the Mail and hard core leavers will blame the EU but I suspect many who voted leave and nearly all remain voters will blame our UK government.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not if the EU are seen to be the causeBenpointer said:
More likely a huge backlash against the incompetents who are supposed to be running the country.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The problem is that any failure to deliver on Brexit will see a huge backlash against those scheming to prevent the democratic vote of the peoplewilliamglenn said:
If she can't get that bill through then surely Brexit is a goner too?TheScreamingEagles said:It looks like the government might not have the votes for its planned Henry VIII clauses.
If Mrs May loses parliamentary votes on something that fundamental then she's a goner.
Hmm, tricky. As far as the government is concerned Brexit has to be declared a success.
Anyway, I am off on a week's cruise tomorrow and as I am too tight to pay P&Os extortionate internet access charges, I'll be missing PB for a week...
I wonder what you'll all be talking about by the time I get back? Er, let me see if I can guess...0 -
Platinum Standard.TheScreamingEagles said:May must go!
From the most accurate pollster at the general election, in terms of VI
https://twitter.com/Survation/status/9041050123426611200 -
Mrs May should have listened to Mike:
Can we end this snap election speculation?
- Mike Smithson, March 30th, 2017.0 -
Big_G_NorthWales said:
In the great tradition of PB we state our views and in the end come very much to the same conclusionBenpointer said:
I am not really 'carried away' with it Big_G, it's just what I think is most likely to happen. Equally you think there will be a big backlash against the EU if we drop out with a hard Brexit. Neither of us knows, we could both be right, we could both be wrong.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Again drawing conclusions on speculation. No one can say how this will pan out. You seem to be carried away on the idea labour with Corbyn will win the next GE no matter how matters develop.Benpointer said:
Sadly I agree that looks most likely. Who then in the Tory party will want to take over from May to fight a GE on the back of rock hard Brexit? Nope, they'll let May lose that one, and let Labour deal with the post-Brexit mess.foxinsoxuk said:
Sounds about right to me also, but I reckon that the Government will spit the dummy, and we get WTO Brexit.blueblue said:
Are any of the likely candidates really going to be able to deliver a "decent" Brexit? It's largely out of our hands - we either accede to the EU's demands and avoid an immediate crisis at the price of being humiliated, or we don't and crash out in chaos.TheScreamingEagles said:
Because I, and many others, have no faith in Mrs May being able to deliver a decent Brexit, a bad Brexit increases the chances of Corbyn as PM, that's why she needs to go.blueblue said:
To be replaced by whom? For what purpose? In what way will transferring the leadership either help the party or the reputation of the next leader, who would then be tarnished with the unavoidable messiness of the Brexit deal?TheScreamingEagles said:I'm feeling quite confident about my bet that Mrs May will be gone by the start of the 2018 summer recess.
Far better for both the party and the leadership hopefuls to let May draw off all the poison of Brexit so the next leader won't be immediately toxified by it.
Again, I've go no love for the loser May. But I'll be damned if we lose the country to Momentum just because some Tories want her out immediately due to personal dislike.
Just look at her attempted power grab with the Henry VIII clauses.
For the record, I'd prefer the humiliation! But neither of these outcomes is going to be a vote winner whoever carries it through...
Always a pleasure debating (and sometimes even agreeing) with you Big_G! 0 -
Hope you have a great cruise. Going ourselves in five weeks with Princes from Rome to the Aegean.Benpointer said:
Good point it will be a mighty tricky sell. Who'd be PM eh? No tory other than Theresa fancies it at the mo apparently.FF43 said:
The narrative would be (a) to the British public - thanks to the skill and dedication of the Conservative government Brexit is a huge success and it's all the fault of the EU. (b) to the EU: we love you, we love you, we love you. Give us a trade deal. Pretty please? It's all your fault.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not as simple as that - depends on the narrative but I can understand you expressing your desired outcomeBenpointer said:
As has been said many times before, the EU's stance has been entirely predictable. Of course the Mail and hard core leavers will blame the EU but I suspect many who voted leave and nearly all remain voters will blame our UK government.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Not if the EU are seen to be the causeBenpointer said:
More likely a huge backlash against the incompetents who are supposed to be running the country.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The problem is that any failure to deliver on Brexit will see a huge backlash against those scheming to prevent the democratic vote of the peoplewilliamglenn said:
If she can't get that bill through then surely Brexit is a goner too?TheScreamingEagles said:It looks like the government might not have the votes for its planned Henry VIII clauses.
If Mrs May loses parliamentary votes on something that fundamental then she's a goner.
Hmm, tricky. As far as the government is concerned Brexit has to be declared a success.
Anyway, I am off on a week's cruise tomorrow and as I am too tight to pay P&Os extortionate internet access charges, I'll be missing PB for a week...
I wonder what you'll all be talking about by the time I get back? Er, let me see if I can guess...
We get 500 minutes internet between us but it is very expensive otherwise0 -
Like John Major and the Poll Tax. "We made a mistake." Possible but hard to envisage. I think of it happened, a Labour government would more likely ring the changes.williamglenn said:
If declaring it a success is impossible, is it better for them to declare it a bit crap really but the best we could do, or to declare it an abject failure, draw a line under it and pretend it never happened?FF43 said:Hmm, tricky. As far as the government is concerned Brexit has to be declared a success.
0 -
Survation. @Survation 5m5 minutes ago
More
We have a new political poll out in tomorrow's MoS. LAB 43% (+2) CON 38% (nc) LD 7% (-1) UKIP 4% (-2*) Others 7% (+1) (chg since July 15th)
OHHHHHH JEEEERRRREEEEMMMMY COOOOOORRRRBYN0 -
That argument runs hollow. It has been said that if she does something, she will be removed from power.foxinsoxuk said:
The Nobel Peace prize has been beyond satire since Kissinger won it.surbiton said:Nobel Peace Prize Committee should take back Aung San Suu Kyi's award. She is orchestrating or certainly overlooking genocide.
Burma is a complex place politically. Daw Aung San Suu Kyi does not have sole contol. She has a tiger to ride.
What sort of power has she got then that she cannot stop genocide ?0 -
Thanks and we will still be here when you return no doubt going on and on and on about you know whatBenpointer said:Big_G_NorthWales said:
In the great tradition of PB we state our views and in the end come very much to the same conclusionBenpointer said:
I am not really 'carried away' with it Big_G, it's just what I think is most likely to happen. Equally you think there will be a big backlash against the EU if we drop out with a hard Brexit. Neither of us knows, we could both be right, we could both be wrong.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Again drawing conclusions on speculation. No one can say how this will pan out. You seem to be carried away on the idea labour with Corbyn will win the next GE no matter how matters develop.Benpointer said:
Sadly I agree that looks most likely. Who then in the Tory party will want to take over from May to fight a GE on the back of rock hard Brexit? Nope, they'll let May lose that one, and let Labour deal with the post-Brexit mess.foxinsoxuk said:
Sounds about right to me also, but I reckon that the Government will spit the dummy, and we get WTO Brexit.blueblue said:
Are any of the likely candidates really going to be able to deliver a "decent" Brexit? It's largely out of our hands - we either accede to the EU's demands and avoid an immediate crisis at the price of being humiliated, or we don't and crash out in chaos.TheScreamingEagles said:
Because I, and many others, have no faith in Mrs May being able to deliver a decent Brexit, a bad Brexit increases the chances of Corbyn as PM, that's why she needs to go.blueblue said:
To be replaced by whom? For what purpose? In what way will transferring the leadership either help the party or the reputation of the next leader, who would then be tarnished with the unavoidable messiness of the Brexit deal?TheScreamingEagles said:I'm feeling quite confident about my bet that Mrs May will be gone by the start of the 2018 summer recess.
Far better for both the party and the leadership hopefuls to let May draw off all the poison of Brexit so the next leader won't be immediately toxified by it.
Again, I've go no love for the loser May. But I'll be damned if we lose the country to Momentum just because some Tories want her out immediately due to personal dislike.
Just look at her attempted power grab with the Henry VIII clauses.
For the record, I'd prefer the humiliation! But neither of these outcomes is going to be a vote winner whoever carries it through... Always a pleasure debating (and sometimes even agreeing) with you Big_G!0 -
Depending on the Scotland split, that's borderline Lab Maj territory.bigjohnowls said:Survation. @Survation 5m5 minutes ago
More
We have a new political poll out in tomorrow's MoS. LAB 43% (+2) CON 38% (nc) LD 7% (-1) UKIP 4% (-2*) Others 7% (+1) (chg since July 15th)
OHHHHHH JEEEERRRREEEEMMMMY COOOOOORRRRBYN0 -
YOOOU'RE NOOOT THE PEEE - EEEMMMMMMM!bigjohnowls said:Survation. @Survation 5m5 minutes ago
More
We have a new political poll out in tomorrow's MoS. LAB 43% (+2) CON 38% (nc) LD 7% (-1) UKIP 4% (-2*) Others 7% (+1) (chg since July 15th)
OHHHHHH JEEEERRRREEEEMMMMY COOOOOORRRRBYN
YOOOU'RE NOOOT THE PEEE - EEEMMMMMMM!0 -
Survation had only Boris taking the Tories higher than May in last month's Survation, will be interesting to see if they have a similar poll tomorrow.TheScreamingEagles said:May must go!
From the most accurate pollster at the general election, in terms of VI
https://twitter.com/Survation/status/904105012342661120
UKIP are on 4% in that Survation, they got 1% at the general election so if the Tories squeeze UKIP they are on 41% then they just need 1% from Labour to be level pegging0 -
Yetblueblue said:
YOOOU'RE NOOOT THE PEEE - EEEMMMMMMM!bigjohnowls said:Survation. @Survation 5m5 minutes ago
More
We have a new political poll out in tomorrow's MoS. LAB 43% (+2) CON 38% (nc) LD 7% (-1) UKIP 4% (-2*) Others 7% (+1) (chg since July 15th)
OHHHHHH JEEEERRRREEEEMMMMY COOOOOORRRRBYN
YOOOU'RE NOOOT THE PEEE - EEEMMMMMMM!0 -
When I was last in Burma she was still under house arrest, and it was a military police state. It was about the only time that I have travelled solo in a police state, and a rather unnerving experience, with spies and informers everywhere.surbiton said:
That argument runs hollow. It has been said that if she does something, she will be removed from power.foxinsoxuk said:
The Nobel Peace prize has been beyond satire since Kissinger won it.surbiton said:Nobel Peace Prize Committee should take back Aung San Suu Kyi's award. She is orchestrating or certainly overlooking genocide.
Burma is a complex place politically. Daw Aung San Suu Kyi does not have sole contol. She has a tiger to ride.
What sort of power has she got then that she cannot stop genocide ?
You cannot divorce a country from its history, and the last century in Burma has been very bloody. I am not unsympathetic to the religious minorities in Burma, and my oldest Burmese friend is a Muslim who spent 7 years in the Jungle as punishment for his participation in the 1988 student protests.
Burma is a lovely country, and these are delightful people, but with a very dark history.0 -
Indeed it is. However, tying patriotism in with membership of a particular religion is a recipe for disaster.foxinsoxuk said:
When I was last in Burma she was still under house arrest, and it was a military police state. It was about the only time that I have travelled solo in a police state, and a rather unnerving experience, with spies and informers everywhere.surbiton said:
That argument runs hollow. It has been said that if she does something, she will be removed from power.foxinsoxuk said:
The Nobel Peace prize has been beyond satire since Kissinger won it.surbiton said:Nobel Peace Prize Committee should take back Aung San Suu Kyi's award. She is orchestrating or certainly overlooking genocide.
Burma is a complex place politically. Daw Aung San Suu Kyi does not have sole contol. She has a tiger to ride.
What sort of power has she got then that she cannot stop genocide ?
You cannot divorce a country from its history, and the last century in Burma has been very bloody. I am not unsympathetic to the religious minorities in Burma, and my oldest Burmese friend is a Muslim who spent 7 years in the Jungle as punishment for his participation in the 1988 student protests.
Burma is a lovely country, and these are delightful people, but with a very dark history.
Our own history has shown that.
Moving from a Police State to a functioning democracy is hard and involves many compromises. It also requires heroes of the liberation to speak out and lead as Mandela did.0 -
Tory and Leave voters want to leave the single market straight away in 2019, though a plurality of all voters support a transition periodTheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Survation in Mail
Next GE - if May and Corbyn are still leaders who will win
Corbyn 40 - May 39%
Should the tories copy labour's soft Brexit vow to keep UK in the EU single market
Yes 49%
No 27%
Dn 24%
Is it good or bad to leave the EU with no deal
Bad 58%
Good 28%
DN 14%
Is May bluffing when she says she could walk away with no Brexit deal
Yes 46%
No 18%
DN 36%
Clear evidence of a shift towards a softer Brexit0 -
Given the current shambles, I bet he's glad he isn't.blueblue said:
YOOOU'RE NOOOT THE PEEE - EEEMMMMMMM!bigjohnowls said:Survation. @Survation 5m5 minutes ago
More
We have a new political poll out in tomorrow's MoS. LAB 43% (+2) CON 38% (nc) LD 7% (-1) UKIP 4% (-2*) Others 7% (+1) (chg since July 15th)
OHHHHHH JEEEERRRREEEEMMMMY COOOOOORRRRBYN
YOOOU'RE NOOOT THE PEEE - EEEMMMMMMM!0 -
I think lots of people are glad he isn'tdixiedean said:
Given the current shambles, I bet he's glad he isn't.blueblue said:
YOOOU'RE NOOOT THE PEEE - EEEMMMMMMM!bigjohnowls said:Survation. @Survation 5m5 minutes ago
More
We have a new political poll out in tomorrow's MoS. LAB 43% (+2) CON 38% (nc) LD 7% (-1) UKIP 4% (-2*) Others 7% (+1) (chg since July 15th)
OHHHHHH JEEEERRRREEEEMMMMY COOOOOORRRRBYN
YOOOU'RE NOOOT THE PEEE - EEEMMMMMMM!0 -
Or at least a transition period, ask voters if they want free movement left uncontrolled permanently and to pay 50-100 billion Euros to the EU and you would get a different answerBig_G_NorthWales said:Survation in Mail
Next GE - if May and Corbyn are still leaders who will win
Corbyn 40 - May 39%
Should the tories copy labour's soft Brexit vow to keep UK in the EU single market
Yes 49%
No 27%
Dn 24%
Is it good or bad to leave the EU with no deal
Bad 58%
Good 28%
DN 14%
Is May bluffing when she says she could walk away with no Brexit deal
Yes 46%
No 18%
DN 36%
Clear evidence of a shift towards a softer Brexit0 -
I have little doubt the transition period will be as things are now but the issue is how long. Legal opinion is that much more than two years would be challlenged in the ECJ as it would be seen as a mechanism to avoid BrexitHYUFD said:
Or at least a transition period, ask voters if they want free movement left uncontrolled permanently and you would get a different ideaBig_G_NorthWales said:Survation in Mail
Next GE - if May and Corbyn are still leaders who will win
Corbyn 40 - May 39%
Should the tories copy labour's soft Brexit vow to keep UK in the EU single market
Yes 49%
No 27%
Dn 24%
Is it good or bad to leave the EU with no deal
Bad 58%
Good 28%
DN 14%
Is May bluffing when she says she could walk away with no Brexit deal
Yes 46%
No 18%
DN 36%
Clear evidence of a shift towards a softer Brexit0 -
Indeed.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I think lots of people are glad he isn'tdixiedean said:
Given the current shambles, I bet he's glad he isn't.blueblue said:
YOOOU'RE NOOOT THE PEEE - EEEMMMMMMM!bigjohnowls said:Survation. @Survation 5m5 minutes ago
More
We have a new political poll out in tomorrow's MoS. LAB 43% (+2) CON 38% (nc) LD 7% (-1) UKIP 4% (-2*) Others 7% (+1) (chg since July 15th)
OHHHHHH JEEEERRRREEEEMMMMY COOOOOORRRRBYN
YOOOU'RE NOOOT THE PEEE - EEEMMMMMMM!0
This discussion has been closed.