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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » YouGov finds 7 out 10 voters, and 4 out 10 Tories don’t Mrs Ma

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  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,682

    HYUFD said:

    Survation in Mail

    Next GE - if May and Corbyn are still leaders who will win

    Corbyn 40 - May 39%

    Should the tories copy labour's soft Brexit vow to keep UK in the EU single market

    Yes 49%
    No 27%
    Dn 24%

    Is it good or bad to leave the EU with no deal

    Bad 58%
    Good 28%
    DN 14%

    Is May bluffing when she says she could walk away with no Brexit deal

    Yes 46%
    No 18%
    DN 36%

    Clear evidence of a shift towards a softer Brexit

    Or at least a transition period, ask voters if they want free movement left uncontrolled permanently and you would get a different idea
    I have little doubt the transition period will be as things are now but the issue is how long. Legal opinion is that much more than two years would be challlenged in the ECJ as it would be seen as a mechanism to avoid Brexit
    I expect there will be a transition period now agreed by May and Davis with the EU to be about 2 years maximum, though Labour will push for a longer transition period than that and maybe even a permanent one. That will be the key issue concerning Brexit at the next general election
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    dixiedean said:

    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    Nobel Peace Prize Committee should take back Aung San Suu Kyi's award. She is orchestrating or certainly overlooking genocide.

    The Nobel Peace prize has been beyond satire since Kissinger won it.

    Burma is a complex place politically. Daw Aung San Suu Kyi does not have sole contol. She has a tiger to ride.
    That argument runs hollow. It has been said that if she does something, she will be removed from power.

    What sort of power has she got then that she cannot stop genocide ?
    When I was last in Burma she was still under house arrest, and it was a military police state. It was about the only time that I have travelled solo in a police state, and a rather unnerving experience, with spies and informers everywhere.

    You cannot divorce a country from its history, and the last century in Burma has been very bloody. I am not unsympathetic to the religious minorities in Burma, and my oldest Burmese friend is a Muslim who spent 7 years in the Jungle as punishment for his participation in the 1988 student protests.

    Burma is a lovely country, and these are delightful people, but with a very dark history.
    Indeed it is. However, tying patriotism in with membership of a particular religion is a recipe for disaster.
    Our own history has shown that.
    Moving from a Police State to a functioning democracy is hard and involves many compromises. It also requires heroes of the liberation to speak out and lead as Mandela did.
    It is worth remembering where Daw Aung San Suu Kyi gets her authority, and also why this is vulnerable. Her father Aung San is recognised by the Burmese as the founder of the nation as well as its armed forces. He fought the British and British Indian colonial armies his whole life, and Burmese Muslims are seen as colonists.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    HYUFD said:

    May must go!

    From the most accurate pollster at the general election, in terms of VI

    https://twitter.com/Survation/status/904105012342661120

    Survation had only Boris taking the Tories higher than May in last month's Survation, will be interesting to see if they have a similar poll tomorrow.

    UKIP are on 4% in that Survation, they got 1% at the general election so if the Tories squeeze UKIP they are on 41% then they just need 1% from Labour to be level pegging
    You are back to hoping Le Pen wins the first round !
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    HYUFD said:

    Survation in Mail

    Next GE - if May and Corbyn are still leaders who will win

    Corbyn 40 - May 39%

    Should the tories copy labour's soft Brexit vow to keep UK in the EU single market

    Yes 49%
    No 27%
    Dn 24%

    Is it good or bad to leave the EU with no deal

    Bad 58%
    Good 28%
    DN 14%

    Is May bluffing when she says she could walk away with no Brexit deal

    Yes 46%
    No 18%
    DN 36%

    Clear evidence of a shift towards a softer Brexit

    Or at least a transition period, ask voters if they want free movement left uncontrolled permanently and you would get a different idea
    I have little doubt the transition period will be as things are now but the issue is how long. Legal opinion is that much more than two years would be challlenged in the ECJ as it would be seen as a mechanism to avoid Brexit
    I think it has become to gather speed. There will be either:

    Hard Brexit or No Brexit.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,682
    edited September 2017
    surbiton said:

    HYUFD said:

    May must go!

    From the most accurate pollster at the general election, in terms of VI

    https://twitter.com/Survation/status/904105012342661120

    Survation had only Boris taking the Tories higher than May in last month's Survation, will be interesting to see if they have a similar poll tomorrow.

    UKIP are on 4% in that Survation, they got 1% at the general election so if the Tories squeeze UKIP they are on 41% then they just need 1% from Labour to be level pegging
    You are back to hoping Le Pen wins the first round !
    Which she did on the basis of departements and regions won (not that I was particularly hoping for it)

    Macron of course has gone from winning more than 60% of the vote in the runoff to a 57% disapproval rating in the space of under 3 months!
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,525

    dixiedean said:

    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    Nobel Peace Prize Committee should take back Aung San Suu Kyi's award. She is orchestrating or certainly overlooking genocide.

    The Nobel Peace prize has been beyond satire since Kissinger won it.

    Burma is a complex place politically. Daw Aung San Suu Kyi does not have sole contol. She has a tiger to ride.
    That argument runs hollow. It has been said that if she does something, she will be removed from power.

    What sort of power has she got then that she cannot stop genocide ?
    When I was last in Burma she was still under house arrest, and it was a military police state. It was about the only time that I have travelled solo in a police state, and a rather unnerving experience, with spies and informers everywhere.

    You cannot divorce a country from its history, and the last century in Burma has been very bloody. I am not unsympathetic to the religious minorities in Burma, and my oldest Burmese friend is a Muslim who spent 7 years in the Jungle as punishment for his participation in the 1988 student protests.

    Burma is a lovely country, and these are delightful people, but with a very dark history.
    Indeed it is. However, tying patriotism in with membership of a particular religion is a recipe for disaster.
    Our own history has shown that.
    Moving from a Police State to a functioning democracy is hard and involves many compromises. It also requires heroes of the liberation to speak out and lead as Mandela did.
    It is worth remembering where Daw Aung San Suu Kyi gets her authority, and also why this is vulnerable. Her father Aung San is recognised by the Burmese as the founder of the nation as well as its armed forces. He fought the British and British Indian colonial armies his whole life, and Burmese Muslims are seen as colonists.
    I agree with you. However, this is why it is even more powerful were she to speak out. She carries a moral authority which can not be gainsaid.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,845
    edited September 2017
    surbiton said:

    Hard Brexit or No Brexit.

    Remember it's less than 9 months since the Lancaster House Speech. For a hard Brexit, the edifice needs to withstand another 18 months without collapsing. It's just not going to happen.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,849
    Why would the EU agree to a transition period? I thought Brexit meant Brexit.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,682
    edited September 2017

    surbiton said:

    Hard Brexit or No Brexit.

    Remember it's less than 9 months since the Lancaster House Speech. For a hard Brexit, the edifice needs to withstand another 18 months without collapsing. It's just not going to happen.
    Soft Brexit means permanently uncontrolled free movement and 50 to 100 billion euros to the EU, that is not going to happen either
  • HYUFD said:

    surbiton said:

    Hard Brexit or No Brexit.

    Remember it's less than 9 months since the Lancaster House Speech. For a hard Brexit, the edifice needs to withstand another 18 months without collapsing. It's just not going to happen.
    Soft Brexit means permanently uncontrolled free movement and 50 to 100 billion euros to the EU, that is not going to happen either
    And when you eliminate the impossible, what is left?
  • Dura_Ace said:

    Why would the EU agree to a transition period? I thought Brexit meant Brexit.

    They have already signalled an agreement for a transition period
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,682

    HYUFD said:

    surbiton said:

    Hard Brexit or No Brexit.

    Remember it's less than 9 months since the Lancaster House Speech. For a hard Brexit, the edifice needs to withstand another 18 months without collapsing. It's just not going to happen.
    Soft Brexit means permanently uncontrolled free movement and 50 to 100 billion euros to the EU, that is not going to happen either
    And when you eliminate the impossible, what is left?
    A 2 year transition period then we leave the single market and end free movement.

    If and when Labour get back into power (and probably only once they have dumped Corbyn and got a leader like Umunna) we may return to the single market at least but in the meantime Brexit really will mean Brexit
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Dura_Ace said:

    Why would the EU agree to a transition period? I thought Brexit meant Brexit.

    They have already signalled an agreement for a transition period
    Contingent on settling the bill, and accepting a few other points. Brexit is not ala carte, either it is the whole thing or nothing.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    blueblue said:

    I'm feeling quite confident about my bet that Mrs May will be gone by the start of the 2018 summer recess.

    To be replaced by whom? For what purpose? In what way will transferring the leadership either help the party or the reputation of the next leader, who would then be tarnished with the unavoidable messiness of the Brexit deal?

    Far better for both the party and the leadership hopefuls to let May draw off all the poison of Brexit so the next leader won't be immediately toxified by it.

    Again, I've go no love for the loser May. But I'll be damned if we lose the country to Momentum just because some Tories want her out immediately due to personal dislike.
    Labour will win next time with or without May.
    Really? They could only tie the Tories on 42% each in the latest poll from ICM last week
    I base my assertion on the natural long terms swings between the main parties of this country that seem to have been fairly consistent for the past 200 years, with a few exceptions.

    Once the party of government starts losing seats it seldom recovers until after a period of opposition.

    I'd bet Labour would gain >5% during any election campaign, thay have the ground game, better social media tactics and (excuse the pun) momentum on their side.
    The Tories won a general election in 1992 after 13 years in power, having lost seats in 1987 and during a recession as enough voters did not want Kinnock as PM, Corbyn may have the same problem
    But the Tories lost 40 seats in 1992 compared with 1987.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,682
    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    blueblue said:

    I'm feeling quite confident about my bet that Mrs May will be gone by the start of the 2018 summer recess.

    To be replaced by whom? For what purpose? In what way will transferring the leadership either help the party or the reputation of the next leader, who would then be tarnished with the unavoidable messiness of the Brexit deal?

    Far better for both the party and the leadership hopefuls to let May draw off all the poison of Brexit so the next leader won't be immediately toxified by it.

    Again, I've go no love for the loser May. But I'll be damned if we lose the country to Momentum just because some Tories want her out immediately due to personal dislike.
    Labour will win next time with or without May.
    Really? They could only tie the Tories on 42% each in the latest poll from ICM last week
    I base my assertion on the natural long terms swings between the main parties of this country that seem to have been fairly consistent for the past 200 years, with a few exceptions.

    Once the party of government starts losing seats it seldom recovers until after a period of opposition.

    I'd bet Labour would gain >5% during any election campaign, thay have the ground game, better social media tactics and (excuse the pun) momentum on their side.
    The Tories won a general election in 1992 after 13 years in power, having lost seats in 1987 and during a recession as enough voters did not want Kinnock as PM, Corbyn may have the same problem
    But the Tories lost 40 seats in 1992 compared with 1987.
    Yet they lost only 0.3% of voteshare, Labour's extra votes in 1992 came almost entirely from 1987 SDP voters
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    blueblue said:

    I'm feeling quite confident about my bet that Mrs May will be gone by the start of the 2018 summer recess.

    To be replaced by whom? For what purpose? In what way will transferring the leadership either help the party or the reputation of the next leader, who would then be tarnished with the unavoidable messiness of the Brexit deal?

    Far better for both the party and the leadership hopefuls to let May draw off all the poison of Brexit so the next leader won't be immediately toxified by it.

    Again, I've go no love for the loser May. But I'll be damned if we lose the country to Momentum just because some Tories want her out immediately due to personal dislike.
    Labour will win next time with or without May.
    Really? They could only tie the Tories on 42% each in the latest poll from ICM last week
    I base my assertion on the natural long terms swings between the main parties of this country that seem to have been fairly consistent for the past 200 years, with a few exceptions.

    Once the party of government starts losing seats it seldom recovers until after a period of opposition.

    I'd bet Labour would gain >5% during any election campaign, thay have the ground game, better social media tactics and (excuse the pun) momentum on their side.
    The Tories won a general election in 1992 after 13 years in power, having lost seats in 1987 and during a recession as enough voters did not want Kinnock as PM, Corbyn may have the same problem
    But the Tories lost 40 seats in 1992 compared with 1987.
    Yet they lost only 0.3% of voteshare, Labour's extra votes in 1992 came almost entirely from 1987 SDP voters
    The Tory GB share dropped from 43.3% to 42.8%..
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,682
    edited September 2017
    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    blueblue said:

    I'm feeling quite confident about my bet that Mrs May will be gone by the start of the 2018 summer recess.

    To be replaced by whom? For what purpose? In what way will transferring the leadership either help the party or the reputation of the next leader, who would then be tarnished with the unavoidable messiness of the Brexit deal?

    Far better for both the party and the leadership hopefuls to let May draw off all the poison of Brexit so the next leader won't be immediately toxified by it.

    Again, I've go no love for the loser May. But I'll be damned if we lose the country to Momentum just because some Tories want her out immediately due to personal dislike.
    Labour will win next time with or without May.
    Really? They could only tie the Tories on 42% each in the latest poll from ICM last week
    I base my assertion on the natural long terms swings between the main parties of this country that seem to have been fairly consistent for the past 200 years, with a few exceptions.

    Once the party of government starts losing seats it seldom recovers until after a period of opposition.

    I'd bet Labour would gain >5% during any election campaign, thay have the ground game, better social media tactics and (excuse the pun) momentum on their side.
    The Tories won a general election in 1992 after 13 years in power, having lost seats in 1987 and during a recession as enough voters did not want Kinnock as PM, Corbyn may have the same problem
    But the Tories lost 40 seats in 1992 compared with 1987.
    Yet they lost only 0.3% of voteshare, Labour's extra votes in 1992 came almost entirely from 1987 SDP voters
    The Tory GB share dropped from 43.3% to 42.8%..
    A 0.5% drop, negligible and of course it is a UK Parliament we elect not a GB Parliament
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,764
    The Tories look very tired. Doesn't help that their big talents have left the Commons.
  • We've never heard this before either:

    Graham Brady's postman is going to get a hernia soon
  • rawzerrawzer Posts: 189
    edited September 2017
    Way off topic, but glad to see Politico has its news priorities sorted out

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This discussion has been closed.