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SystemSystem Posts: 12,679
edited August 2017 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » NEW PB / Polling Matters podcast: Discussing the Brexit talks with Jonathan Portes

The PB/Polling Matters podcast returns with a review of the summer and in-depth interview on the Brexit talks and where Britain goes from here with Jonathan Portes.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,216
    First
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,328
    Second, like Corbo.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    @Alanbrooke FPT

    Don't hold back: what do you really think?
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    FPT;
    williamglenn said:

    I haven't listened to all of this yet but the French ambassador to the UK summed up the Brexit vote quite pithily: "You had some ideologues in London voting against the EU, and people in the provinces voting against London."

    https://twitter.com/patrickwintour/status/902591350062899201

    That does rather capture it.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,751
    FPT: in response to @CasinoRoyale

    Eliminating the interest on student loans would help. Also building houses and flats. Those two would be a start.

    Maybe also increasing the amount which can be given away during life so that parents can help their children earlier in life and not just on death. Making it tax efficient for parents to give away part of their home to children while still living in part of it may also help.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Cyclefree said:

    FPT: in response to @CasinoRoyale

    Eliminating the interest on student loans would help. Also building houses and flats. Those two would be a start.

    Maybe also increasing the amount which can be given away during life so that parents can help their children earlier in life and not just on death. Making it tax efficient for parents to give away part of their home to children while still living in part of it may also help.

    Send me your new contacts when you have a moment - would be good to stay in touch. Offer of 2TP still open if you need it for something
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,328
    edited August 2017
    Cyclefree said:

    FPT: in response to @CasinoRoyale

    Eliminating the interest on student loans would help. Also building houses and flats. Those two would be a start.

    Maybe also increasing the amount which can be given away during life so that parents can help their children earlier in life and not just on death. Making it tax efficient for parents to give away part of their home to children while still living in part of it may also help.

    Agree entirely on building. It's one of the few areas where I think the Govt should actively intervene in the market. It is clearly not working efficently.

    Disagree on tax efficiency on gifts, though, I'm afraid. We don't have a capital transfer tax in this country, and as with gift aid, it would erode the tax base largely to the benefit of the privileged.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    jd portes describes where we are as "negotiating our way out of this mess we're in". Harsh but fair.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,751
    Pong said:

    FPT;

    williamglenn said:

    I haven't listened to all of this yet but the French ambassador to the UK summed up the Brexit vote quite pithily: "You had some ideologues in London voting against the EU, and people in the provinces voting against London."

    https://twitter.com/patrickwintour/status/902591350062899201

    That does rather capture it.
    Did this person ask herself why this might have happened? Or, even, whether - just possibly - the actions and/or inactions of the EU over the over 40 years of our membership might have had something to do with this?

    After all we went from a large majority in favour of the EU in 1975 in pretty much every part of the UK to a majority against the EU in 2016 in pretty much the whole of the UK other than NI, Scotland and London.

    40 years experience of membership preceded this result.

    If the EU was so good for the UK - all of it - why such skewed results? Blaming it all on ideologues or a hatred of London doesn't really answer the question. Why did such sentiments resonate to the extent they did? The EU is not entirely without responsibility here.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,744
    On topic, Excellent podcast.

    Off topic, God no, she deserves to be flogged.

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/902977947358941188
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,744
    Re helping the youth.

    My initial policies.

    Make universities for the elite, not everyone.

    Make students doing proper degrees, such as the sciences, maths, engineering, medical, teaching, law, and history exempt from tuition fees, and they also get grants, if they remain and work in the UK for five years post graduation they don't have to repay their grants.

    Also give exemptions to those that become teachers.

    I'd also remove university status from the ex polys, having 40/50% of the population attend university is silly.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,751
    Charles said:

    Cyclefree said:

    FPT: in response to @CasinoRoyale

    Eliminating the interest on student loans would help. Also building houses and flats. Those two would be a start.

    Maybe also increasing the amount which can be given away during life so that parents can help their children earlier in life and not just on death. Making it tax efficient for parents to give away part of their home to children while still living in part of it may also help.

    Send me your new contacts when you have a moment - would be good to stay in touch. Offer of 2TP still open if you need it for something
    VM for you.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,751
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Re helping the youth.

    My initial policies.

    Make universities for the elite, not everyone.

    Make students doing proper degrees, such as the sciences, maths, engineering, medical, teaching, law, and history exempt from tuition fees, and they also get grants, if they remain and work in the UK for five years post graduation they don't have to repay their grants.

    Also give exemptions to those that become teachers.

    I'd also remove university status from the ex polys, having 40/50% of the population attend university is silly.

    Make it possible to be nurses without needing a degree. I'd also include languages in your list.

    We also need to find a way of allowing parents to pass on wealth to their young at an early stage of their lives, when they need it most.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,744
    A tragedy, A TRAGEDY.

    https://twitter.com/FakeShowbizNews/status/902987695139553280
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,195
    Cyclefree said:

    FPT: in response to @CasinoRoyale

    Eliminating the interest on student loans would help. Also building houses and flats. Those two would be a start.

    Maybe also increasing the amount which can be given away during life so that parents can help their children earlier in life and not just on death. Making it tax efficient for parents to give away part of their home to children while still living in part of it may also help.

    Thanks. I do see some progress on homebuilding, actually, but we're nowhere near there yet.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,195
    Cyclefree said:

    Pong said:

    FPT;

    williamglenn said:

    I haven't listened to all of this yet but the French ambassador to the UK summed up the Brexit vote quite pithily: "You had some ideologues in London voting against the EU, and people in the provinces voting against London."

    https://twitter.com/patrickwintour/status/902591350062899201

    That does rather capture it.
    Did this person ask herself why this might have happened? Or, even, whether - just possibly - the actions and/or inactions of the EU over the over 40 years of our membership might have had something to do with this?

    After all we went from a large majority in favour of the EU in 1975 in pretty much every part of the UK to a majority against the EU in 2016 in pretty much the whole of the UK other than NI, Scotland and London.

    40 years experience of membership preceded this result.

    If the EU was so good for the UK - all of it - why such skewed results? Blaming it all on ideologues or a hatred of London doesn't really answer the question. Why did such sentiments resonate to the extent they did? The EU is not entirely without responsibility here.

    No. They think it's our problem, not theirs.

    Anyone seriously thinking of Bremaining should consider just what an unrepentant and totally unselfaware institution it really is.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,195
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Re helping the youth.

    My initial policies.

    Make universities for the elite, not everyone.

    Make students doing proper degrees, such as the sciences, maths, engineering, medical, teaching, law, and history exempt from tuition fees, and they also get grants, if they remain and work in the UK for five years post graduation they don't have to repay their grants.

    Also give exemptions to those that become teachers.

    I'd also remove university status from the ex polys, having 40/50% of the population attend university is silly.

    I agree with a fair bit of that.
  • chrisoxonchrisoxon Posts: 204
    For everyone talking about 6% interest and parents remortgaging to pay off student debt please read Martin Lewis's guide on student loans. The vast majority of students will never pay any interest and would be considerably worse off if they made overpayments to clear the debt.

    http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/students/student-loans-tuition-fees-changes
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Cyclefree said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Re helping the youth.

    My initial policies.

    Make universities for the elite, not everyone.

    Make students doing proper degrees, such as the sciences, maths, engineering, medical, teaching, law, and history exempt from tuition fees, and they also get grants, if they remain and work in the UK for five years post graduation they don't have to repay their grants.

    Also give exemptions to those that become teachers.

    I'd also remove university status from the ex polys, having 40/50% of the population attend university is silly.

    Make it possible to be nurses without needing a degree. I'd also include languages in your list.

    We also need to find a way of allowing parents to pass on wealth to their young at an early stage of their lives, when they need it most.
    They already can; anyone under 60 and not obviously ill can be pretty confident of living the necessary 7 years to make inter vivos transfers IHT exempt. They can probably even get life insurance at affordable rates to cover any unexpected iht hit.
  • AllanAllan Posts: 262
    Casino_Royale said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Pong said:

    FPT;

    williamglenn said:

    I haven't listened to all of this yet but the French ambassador to the UK summed up the Brexit vote quite pithily: "You had some ideologues in London voting against the EU, and people in the provinces voting against London."

    https://twitter.com/patrickwintour/status/902591350062899201

    That does rather capture it.
    Did this person ask herself why this might have happened? Or, even, whether - just possibly - the actions and/or inactions of the EU over the over 40 years of our membership might have had something to do with this?

    After all we went from a large majority in favour of the EU in 1975 in pretty much every part of the UK to a majority against the EU in 2016 in pretty much the whole of the UK other than NI, Scotland and London.

    40 years experience of membership preceded this result.

    If the EU was so good for the UK - all of it - why such skewed results? Blaming it all on ideologues or a hatred of London doesn't really answer the question. Why did such sentiments resonate to the extent they did? The EU is not entirely without responsibility here.

    No. They think it's our problem, not theirs.

    Anyone seriously thinking of Bremaining should consider just what an unrepentant and totally unselfaware institution it really is.
    They rigged the system so we ended up paying more than our fair share. We then got Blair's government with their elitist stupidity towards immigration and life for the workers in the working class did not improve.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,528
    Cyclefree said:

    Pong said:

    FPT;

    williamglenn said:

    I haven't listened to all of this yet but the French ambassador to the UK summed up the Brexit vote quite pithily: "You had some ideologues in London voting against the EU, and people in the provinces voting against London."

    https://twitter.com/patrickwintour/status/902591350062899201

    That does rather capture it.
    Did this person ask herself why this might have happened? Or, even, whether - just possibly - the actions and/or inactions of the EU over the over 40 years of our membership might have had something to do with this?

    After all we went from a large majority in favour of the EU in 1975 in pretty much every part of the UK to a majority against the EU in 2016 in pretty much the whole of the UK other than NI, Scotland and London.

    40 years experience of membership preceded this result.

    If the EU was so good for the UK - all of it - why such skewed results? Blaming it all on ideologues or a hatred of London doesn't really answer the question. Why did such sentiments resonate to the extent they did? The EU is not entirely without responsibility here.

    All the more striking when you consider that 75-80% of 18-34 year olds voted Remain in 1975, but two thirds of the same age cohort voted Leave, last year.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,195
    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Pong said:

    FPT;

    williamglenn said:

    I haven't listened to all of this yet but the French ambassador to the UK summed up the Brexit vote quite pithily: "You had some ideologues in London voting against the EU, and people in the provinces voting against London."

    https://twitter.com/patrickwintour/status/902591350062899201

    That does rather capture it.
    Did this person ask herself why this might have happened? Or, even, whether - just possibly - the actions and/or inactions of the EU over the over 40 years of our membership might have had something to do with this?

    After all we went from a large majority in favour of the EU in 1975 in pretty much every part of the UK to a majority against the EU in 2016 in pretty much the whole of the UK other than NI, Scotland and London.

    40 years experience of membership preceded this result.

    If the EU was so good for the UK - all of it - why such skewed results? Blaming it all on ideologues or a hatred of London doesn't really answer the question. Why did such sentiments resonate to the extent they did? The EU is not entirely without responsibility here.

    All the more striking when you consider that 75-80% of 18-34 year olds voted Remain in 1975, but two thirds of the same age cohort voted Leave, last year.
    The EU have yet to learn that if they showed a bit more humility and understanding they might be more popular.

    They might never learn. They might simply not care, or view it as a nice to have but not essential.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Pong said:

    FPT;

    williamglenn said:

    I haven't listened to all of this yet but the French ambassador to the UK summed up the Brexit vote quite pithily: "You had some ideologues in London voting against the EU, and people in the provinces voting against London."

    https://twitter.com/patrickwintour/status/902591350062899201

    That does rather capture it.
    Did this person ask herself why this might have happened? Or, even, whether - just possibly - the actions and/or inactions of the EU over the over 40 years of our membership might have had something to do with this?

    After all we went from a large majority in favour of the EU in 1975 in pretty much every part of the UK to a majority against the EU in 2016 in pretty much the whole of the UK other than NI, Scotland and London.

    40 years experience of membership preceded this result.

    If the EU was so good for the UK - all of it - why such skewed results? Blaming it all on ideologues or a hatred of London doesn't really answer the question. Why did such sentiments resonate to the extent they did? The EU is not entirely without responsibility here.

    All the more striking when you consider that 75-80% of 18-34 year olds voted Remain in 1975, but two thirds of the same age cohort voted Leave, last year.
    If that were true it would have been a landslide for Leave.
    https://twitter.com/POLITICOEurope/status/746255941331488768
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,328
    williamglenn said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Pong said:

    FPT;

    williamglenn said:

    I haven't listened to all of this yet but the French ambassador to the UK summed up the Brexit vote quite pithily: "You had some ideologues in London voting against the EU, and people in the provinces voting against London."

    https://twitter.com/patrickwintour/status/902591350062899201

    That does rather capture it.
    Did this person ask herself why this might have happened? Or, even, whether - just possibly - the actions and/or inactions of the EU over the over 40 years of our membership might have had something to do with this?

    After all we went from a large majority in favour of the EU in 1975 in pretty much every part of the UK to a majority against the EU in 2016 in pretty much the whole of the UK other than NI, Scotland and London.

    40 years experience of membership preceded this result.

    If the EU was so good for the UK - all of it - why such skewed results? Blaming it all on ideologues or a hatred of London doesn't really answer the question. Why did such sentiments resonate to the extent they did? The EU is not entirely without responsibility here.

    All the more striking when you consider that 75-80% of 18-34 year olds voted Remain in 1975, but two thirds of the same age cohort voted Leave, last year.
    If that were true it would have been a landslide for Leave.
    https://twitter.com/POLITICOEurope/status/746255941331488768
    The same cohort. Ie people aged 60+
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    chrisoxon said:

    For everyone talking about 6% interest and parents remortgaging to pay off student debt please read Martin Lewis's guide on student loans. The vast majority of students will never pay any interest and would be considerably worse off if they made overpayments to clear the debt.

    http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/students/student-loans-tuition-fees-changes

    Yes I know (the gist of) that. The subtext of it is the rather dispiriting "Don't worry because university education is now so worthless that you're unlikely ever to make more than a provincial bus driver". If 6% interest is unjust it's unjust, irrespective of how many people it affects.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited August 2017
    chrisoxon said:

    For everyone talking about 6% interest and parents remortgaging to pay off student debt please read Martin Lewis's guide on student loans. The vast majority of students will never pay any interest and would be considerably worse off if they made overpayments to clear the debt.

    http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/students/student-loans-tuition-fees-changes

    Martin Lewis was played for a fool by the conservatives.

    The government decided to retrospectively add £6k to the amount median earning Plan2 graduates pay back, just like that.

    Naive wannabe students trusted Martin Lewis, who naively trusted the tories to play fair.

    If the tory party are ever going to win over young people, they'll need to stop picking their pockets.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,744
    So Mrs May intends to fight the 2022 general election.

    Ugh, she really wants to destroy the Tory party.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,528
    edited August 2017
    williamglenn said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Pong said:

    FPT;

    williamglenn said:

    I haven't listened to all of this yet but the French ambassador to the UK summed up the Brexit vote quite pithily: "You had some ideologues in London voting against the EU, and people in the provinces voting against London."

    https://twitter.com/patrickwintour/status/902591350062899201

    That does rather capture it.
    Did this person ask herself why this might have happened? Or, even, whether - just possibly - the actions and/or inactions of the EU over the over 40 years of our membership might have had something to do with this?

    After all we went from a large majority in favour of the EU in 1975 in pretty much every part of the UK to a majority against the EU in 2016 in pretty much the whole of the UK other than NI, Scotland and London.

    40 years experience of membership preceded this result.

    If the EU was so good for the UK - all of it - why such skewed results? Blaming it all on ideologues or a hatred of London doesn't really answer the question. Why did such sentiments resonate to the extent they did? The EU is not entirely without responsibility here.

    All the more striking when you consider that 75-80% of 18-34 year olds voted Remain in 1975, but two thirds of the same age cohort voted Leave, last year.
    If that were true it would have been a landslide for Leave.
    https://twitter.com/POLITICOEurope/status/746255941331488768
    By same age cohort, I mean the 18-34 year olds of 1975 who were 59-75 year olds in 2016.

    What made them turn against the EU?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    edited August 2017
    Mortimer said:

    The same cohort. Ie people aged 60+

    Sorry I missed the point then... My explanation for that would be that they are the group that bought into the big lie. Not £350m a week, nor immigration, nor even trading with the world, but the idea that we only voted to join a trading bloc and not a political union. This line was all the more persuasive because it gave people a grievance, and had just enough truthiness given the dramatic evolution of the EU since the end of the Cold War to be believable.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,241
    edited August 2017
    deleted
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    So Mrs May intends to fight the 2022 general election.

    Ugh, she really wants to destroy the Tory party.

    Has she said that? And she thinks it's her decision?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,528
    edited August 2017
    williamglenn said:

    Mortimer said:

    The same cohort. Ie people aged 60+

    Sorry I missed the point then... My explanation for that would be that they are the group that bought into the big lie. Not £350m a week, nor immigration, nor even trading with the world, but the idea that we only voted to join a trading bloc and not a political union.
    So, surely the pro-EU side must have been the ones who were misleading them in 1975?

    Or, more charitably, they failed to explain themselves.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,744
    Ishmael_Z said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    So Mrs May intends to fight the 2022 general election.

    Ugh, she really wants to destroy the Tory party.

    Has she said that? And she thinks it's her decision?
    Yup.

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/902996548379971584
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,271
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Re helping the youth.

    My initial policies.

    Make universities for the elite, not everyone.

    Make students doing proper degrees, such as the sciences, maths, engineering, medical, teaching, law, and history exempt from tuition fees, and they also get grants, if they remain and work in the UK for five years post graduation they don't have to repay their grants.

    Also give exemptions to those that become teachers.

    I'd also remove university status from the ex polys, having 40/50% of the population attend university is silly.

    If you want your political party to be popular with the under 35 age group,which I think was Casino's challenge, that's the opposite of what you should do. More young people go to university because they have aspirations. Maybe they are misguided but any limiting to the elite will just mean the well connected get in and everyone else will be excluded and they know that. The government should make affordable third level education available to anyone who wants it and meets the minimum standards. They don't necessarily have to subsidise third level education but it should be made more efficient and better value. Then it's up to market forces whether students reckon they come out ahead.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    williamglenn said:

    Mortimer said:

    The same cohort. Ie people aged 60+

    Sorry I missed the point then... My explanation for that would be that they are the group that bought into the big lie. Not £350m a week, nor immigration, nor even trading with the world, but the idea that we only voted to join a trading bloc and not a political union.
    How old are you? Because I was there, and I can promise you the country voted to join a trading bloc. And we don't have to bicker about it, or trade footage of Grocer Heath wibbling away to the Oxford Union, we just have to look at the question: "Do you think the United Kingdom should stay in the European Community (the Common Market)?" The bit in brackets is because that was what everyone called it, and thought it was.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    Casino_Royale said:

    The EU have yet to learn that if they showed a bit more humility and understanding they might be more popular.

    They might never learn. They might simply not care, or view it as a nice to have but not essential.

    The primary responsibility for selling the benefits of political cooperation with neighbouring countries within the EU is the national political class of each country. Each time there's a general election it should be an opportunity to reaffirm this cooperation or set limits on what new steps have a mandate and what don't, but in any case to have a frank debate.

    Somewhere along the line our national conversation on the subject became irretrievably dysfunctional.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/pickardje/status/902999768250683393
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,744
    edited August 2017
    Where's the Leo Amery de nos jours ?
  • chrisoxonchrisoxon Posts: 204
    Ishmael_Z said:

    chrisoxon said:

    For everyone talking about 6% interest and parents remortgaging to pay off student debt please read Martin Lewis's guide on student loans. The vast majority of students will never pay any interest and would be considerably worse off if they made overpayments to clear the debt.

    http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/students/student-loans-tuition-fees-changes

    Yes I know (the gist of) that. The subtext of it is the rather dispiriting "Don't worry because university education is now so worthless that you're unlikely ever to make more than a provincial bus driver". If 6% interest is unjust it's unjust, irrespective of how many people it affects.
    You need to be earning a significant salary to have any prospect of repaying the principle let alone the interest. Average earnings of £31,000 won't even cover it.

    The Government could just rename it a graduate tax and forget individual amounts 'owed' and would receive rapturous applause. Would be dumb though as most graduates would end up paying even more than they do now as there wouldn't be a max amount to pay (loan amount) or a limit of 30 years.

    I wish I was on the 2012 scheme rather than the earlier scheme - we have a lower repayment threshold. The amount is irrelevant, I don't even know how much I still owe.
  • chrisoxonchrisoxon Posts: 204
    Pong said:

    chrisoxon said:

    For everyone talking about 6% interest and parents remortgaging to pay off student debt please read Martin Lewis's guide on student loans. The vast majority of students will never pay any interest and would be considerably worse off if they made overpayments to clear the debt.

    http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/students/student-loans-tuition-fees-changes

    Martin Lewis was played for a fool by the conservatives.

    The government decided to retrospectively add £6k to the amount median earning Plan2 graduates pay back, just like that.

    Naive wannabe students trusted Martin Lewis, who naively trusted the tories to play fair.

    If the tory party are ever going to win over young people, they'll need to stop picking their pockets.
    So you haven't read what Lewis has written then that says the total amount owed is irre for the vast majority of students?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,528
    FF43 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Re helping the youth.

    My initial policies.

    Make universities for the elite, not everyone.

    Make students doing proper degrees, such as the sciences, maths, engineering, medical, teaching, law, and history exempt from tuition fees, and they also get grants, if they remain and work in the UK for five years post graduation they don't have to repay their grants.

    Also give exemptions to those that become teachers.

    I'd also remove university status from the ex polys, having 40/50% of the population attend university is silly.

    If you want your political party to be popular with the under 35 age group,which I think was Casino's challenge, that's the opposite of what you should do. More young people go to university because they have aspirations. Maybe they are misguided but any limiting to the elite will just mean the well connected get in and everyone else will be excluded and they know that. The government should make affordable third level education available to anyone who wants it and meets the minimum standards. They don't necessarily have to subsidise third level education but it should be made more efficient and better value. Then it's up to market forces whether students reckon they come out ahead.
    You are politically right. TSE is morally right.

  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    So Mrs May intends to fight the 2022 general election.

    Ugh, she really wants to destroy the Tory party.

    Has she said that? And she thinks it's her decision?
    Yup.

    hts://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/902996548379971584
    My guess is she is still taking advice on the quiet from Beardie and Fi. She cannot have attained such levels of lunacy without outside help.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    FF43 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Re helping the youth.

    My initial policies.

    Make universities for the elite, not everyone.

    Make students doing proper degrees, such as the sciences, maths, engineering, medical, teaching, law, and history exempt from tuition fees, and they also get grants, if they remain and work in the UK for five years post graduation they don't have to repay their grants.

    Also give exemptions to those that become teachers.

    I'd also remove university status from the ex polys, having 40/50% of the population attend university is silly.

    If you want your political party to be popular with the under 35 age group,which I think was Casino's challenge, that's the opposite of what you should do. More young people go to university because they have aspirations. Maybe they are misguided but any limiting to the elite will just mean the well connected get in and everyone else will be excluded and they know that. The government should make affordable third level education available to anyone who wants it and meets the minimum standards. They don't necessarily have to subsidise third level education but it should be made more efficient and better value. Then it's up to market forces whether students reckon they come out ahead.
    Make it 2 years for a start. Buckingham University is good value compared to many alternatives
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,271
    Sean_F said:

    FF43 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Re helping the youth.

    My initial policies.

    Make universities for the elite, not everyone.

    Make students doing proper degrees, such as the sciences, maths, engineering, medical, teaching, law, and history exempt from tuition fees, and they also get grants, if they remain and work in the UK for five years post graduation they don't have to repay their grants.

    Also give exemptions to those that become teachers.

    I'd also remove university status from the ex polys, having 40/50% of the population attend university is silly.

    If you want your political party to be popular with the under 35 age group,which I think was Casino's challenge, that's the opposite of what you should do. More young people go to university because they have aspirations. Maybe they are misguided but any limiting to the elite will just mean the well connected get in and everyone else will be excluded and they know that. The government should make affordable third level education available to anyone who wants it and meets the minimum standards. They don't necessarily have to subsidise third level education but it should be made more efficient and better value. Then it's up to market forces whether students reckon they come out ahead.
    You are politically right. TSE is morally right.

    Curious why you make the distinction between what is politically right and what is morally right, given students see themselves as consumers?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    Ishmael_Z said:

    williamglenn said:

    Mortimer said:

    The same cohort. Ie people aged 60+

    Sorry I missed the point then... My explanation for that would be that they are the group that bought into the big lie. Not £350m a week, nor immigration, nor even trading with the world, but the idea that we only voted to join a trading bloc and not a political union.
    How old are you? Because I was there, and I can promise you the country voted to join a trading bloc. And we don't have to bicker about it, or trade footage of Grocer Heath wibbling away to the Oxford Union, we just have to look at the question: "Do you think the United Kingdom should stay in the European Community (the Common Market)?" The bit in brackets is because that was what everyone called it, and thought it was.
    I agree there's no point going over that ground again. The main point that's indisputable is there was an adequate mandate in 1975 was for what the European Community was at the time.

    I don't think it's in the 70s that the pro-EU side didn't explain themselves, but subsequently. Particularly in the 90s and beyond there was a complete loss of confidence that the argument could be won which meant centrist politicians stopped trying, until suddenly one day David Cameron tore off his sceptical mask and told us all to vote Remain or the sky would fall in, with predictable results...
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,831
    FF43 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Re helping the youth.

    My initial policies.

    Make universities for the elite, not everyone.

    Make students doing proper degrees, such as the sciences, maths, engineering, medical, teaching, law, and history exempt from tuition fees, and they also get grants, if they remain and work in the UK for five years post graduation they don't have to repay their grants.

    Also give exemptions to those that become teachers.

    I'd also remove university status from the ex polys, having 40/50% of the population attend university is silly.

    If you want your political party to be popular with the under 35 age group,which I think was Casino's challenge, that's the opposite of what you should do. More young people go to university because they have aspirations. Maybe they are misguided but any limiting to the elite will just mean the well connected get in and everyone else will be excluded and they know that. The government should make affordable third level education available to anyone who wants it and meets the minimum standards. They don't necessarily have to subsidise third level education but it should be made more efficient and better value. Then it's up to market forces whether students reckon they come out ahead.
    This. So many Conservatives really don't understand how to appeal to young people at all. I also think a lot of the negative commentary about young people is going to have to go as well. I'd recommend not listening to anything Brendan O'Neill says if you want to appeal to the under 35s. No one is won over by being told how terrible they are. I'm noticing that there is also this negative sentiment towards young people among some US Conservatives as well. Seeing quite a few videos/tweets/articles about how 'terrible' Millennials all are....
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @PolhomeEditor: Maybe she's been hacked. https://twitter.com/johnestevens/status/902999378213965831
  • PeterCPeterC Posts: 1,275
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Where's the Leo Amery de nos jours ?

    My mother knew Leo Amery. He was apparently fiercely intellectual but also a very kind and charming man. He was utterly devastated by his wayward and traitorous son, Jack, who was hanged for treason. JRM?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,947
    edited August 2017
    Oh dear.

    Theresa want's to fight the 2022 election?

    http://news.sky.com/story/theresa-may-sets-out-bid-to-lead-tories-in-2022-general-election-11012965

    I had hoped she'd bow out gracefully in 2019... But if she wants to stick around beyond 2019 the Tories will just have to eviscerate her - No way can she be allowed anywhere near another general election campaign...
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,781
    Cyclefree said:

    Pong said:

    FPT;

    williamglenn said:

    I haven't listened to all of this yet but the French ambassador to the UK summed up the Brexit vote quite pithily: "You had some ideologues in London voting against the EU, and people in the provinces voting against London."

    https://twitter.com/patrickwintour/status/902591350062899201

    That does rather capture it.
    Did this person ask herself why this might have happened? Or, even, whether - just possibly - the actions and/or inactions of the EU over the over 40 years of our membership might have had something to do with this?

    After all we went from a large majority in favour of the EU in 1975 in pretty much every part of the UK to a majority against the EU in 2016 in pretty much the whole of the UK other than NI, Scotland and London.

    40 years experience of membership preceded this result.

    If the EU was so good for the UK - all of it - why such skewed results? Blaming it all on ideologues or a hatred of London doesn't really answer the question. Why did such sentiments resonate to the extent they did? The EU is not entirely without responsibility here.

    4 decades of mass media blaming all kinds of stuff on Brussels, Europhiles not bothering to make the case, plus a general mood of dissatisfaction. Also, opposition to the EU was more mainstream this time - in 1975, the "No" vote was led by Benn+Powell, neither of them widely trusted. This time, a range of opportunists joined in, led by our ever-flexible Foreign Minister.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Where's the Leo Amery de nos jours ?

    "As a mother, I know when it's time to say the party's over."
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Scott_P said:

    @PolhomeEditor: Maybe she's been hacked. https://twitter.com/johnestevens/status/902999378213965831

    Or perhaps some sort of Stepford Wives malfunction. Or indeed Westworld.
  • chrisoxonchrisoxon Posts: 204
    Charles said:

    FF43 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Re helping the youth.

    My initial policies.

    Make universities for the elite, not everyone.

    Make students doing proper degrees, such as the sciences, maths, engineering, medical, teaching, law, and history exempt from tuition fees, and they also get grants, if they remain and work in the UK for five years post graduation they don't have to repay their grants.

    Also give exemptions to those that become teachers.

    I'd also remove university status from the ex polys, having 40/50% of the population attend university is silly.

    If you want your political party to be popular with the under 35 age group,which I think was Casino's challenge, that's the opposite of what you should do. More young people go to university because they have aspirations. Maybe they are misguided but any limiting to the elite will just mean the well connected get in and everyone else will be excluded and they know that. The government should make affordable third level education available to anyone who wants it and meets the minimum standards. They don't necessarily have to subsidise third level education but it should be made more efficient and better value. Then it's up to market forces whether students reckon they come out ahead.
    Make it 2 years for a start. Buckingham University is good value compared to many alternatives
    Graduate Apprenticeships need to pushed in the same way that university is. Get paid while you earn a valuable qualification. I wish these had been on offer when I was leaving school.

    Universities need cutting back. If research isn't your focus you're not a university, you're a glorified school.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,831
    When I saw the notification on my phone that May thought she could lead the Tories into 2022 I seriously couldn't believe it. I'm very intrigued to see the response to this among Tories.

    However, in some ways I can understand why May feels this way. Her opponents/potential successors are all unappealing and pretty underwhelming - Boris, David Davis, JRM....
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Scott_P said:

    @PolhomeEditor: Maybe she's been hacked. https://twitter.com/johnestevens/status/902999378213965831

    Or perhaps some sort of Stepford Wives malfunction. Or indeed Westworld.
    Perhaps she really has had enough and thinks the only way to get someone to depose her is to say she'll never leave.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,528
    FF43 said:

    Sean_F said:

    FF43 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Re helping the youth.

    My initial policies.

    Make universities for the elite, not everyone.

    Make students doing proper degrees, such as the sciences, maths, engineering, medical, teaching, law, and history exempt from tuition fees, and they also get grants, if they remain and work in the UK for five years post graduation they don't have to repay their grants.

    Also give exemptions to those that become teachers.

    I'd also remove university status from the ex polys, having 40/50% of the population attend university is silly.

    If you want your political party to be popular with the under 35 age group,which I think was Casino's challenge, that's the opposite of what you should do. More young people go to university because they have aspirations. Maybe they are misguided but any limiting to the elite will just mean the well connected get in and everyone else will be excluded and they know that. The government should make affordable third level education available to anyone who wants it and meets the minimum standards. They don't necessarily have to subsidise third level education but it should be made more efficient and better value. Then it's up to market forces whether students reckon they come out ahead.
    You are politically right. TSE is morally right.

    Curious why you make the distinction between what is politically right and what is morally right, given students see themselves as consumers?
    I think that TSE is right that in effect, young people, going to poor universities, are being sold a pig in a poke.

    You are right that it would be politically damaging to say so.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,947
    The_Apocalypse said:

    When I saw the notification on my phone that May thought she could lead the Tories into 2022 I seriously couldn't believe it. I'm very intrigued to see the response to this among Tories.

    I imagine the Tories will nod and smile politely... Then knife her in the back and the front in 2019. ;)
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,914
    May trolling her own party now.

    Can the contemporary Tory party get any more laughable?
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,328
    The_Apocalypse said:

    When I saw the notification on my phone that May thought she could lead the Tories into 2022 I seriously couldn't believe it. I'm very intrigued to see the response to this among Tories.

    However, in some ways I can understand why May feels this way. Her opponents/potential successors are all unappealing and pretty underwhelming - Boris, David Davis, JRM....

    Fortunes change.

    I don't think she will stay until 2022, but it's a good line for party stability, for European consumption,and leads probably to a compromise 2020 departure.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,328
    Monksfield said:

    May trolling her own party now.

    Can the contemporary Tory party get any more laughable?

    Just a reminder; we're in government.

    Your lot, who lost, still campaigning like the election hasn't happened yet.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,647
    FF43 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Re helping the youth.

    My initial policies.

    Make universities for the elite, not everyone.

    Make students doing proper degrees, such as the sciences, maths, engineering, medical, teaching, law, and history exempt from tuition fees, and they also get grants, if they remain and work in the UK for five years post graduation they don't have to repay their grants.

    Also give exemptions to those that become teachers.

    I'd also remove university status from the ex polys, having 40/50% of the population attend university is silly.

    If you want your political party to be popular with the under 35 age group,which I think was Casino's challenge, that's the opposite of what you should do. More young people go to university because they have aspirations. Maybe they are misguided but any limiting to the elite will just mean the well connected get in and everyone else will be excluded and they know that. The government should make affordable third level education available to anyone who wants it and meets the minimum standards. They don't necessarily have to subsidise third level education but it should be made more efficient and better value. Then it's up to market forces whether students reckon they come out ahead.
    For aspirations, you also need to offer something to the 50% who have no prospect of attending University. With employment at record levels, many are stuck in jobs which do not match their ambitions for the future.

    A proper look at the FE sector would be good. Make it easy and cheap to re-train at local Colleges. This sector has been decimated by successive governments keen to keep spending on Schools up. We need to get back to the idea that "Night School" is an attractive and affordable route for the ambitious and self-motivated, but qualificationally-challenged.

    That means proper funding and subsidised fees, but also a motivated workforce. Real jobs not ZHC for FE lecturers.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,914
    Mortimer said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    When I saw the notification on my phone that May thought she could lead the Tories into 2022 I seriously couldn't believe it. I'm very intrigued to see the response to this among Tories.

    However, in some ways I can understand why May feels this way. Her opponents/potential successors are all unappealing and pretty underwhelming - Boris, David Davis, JRM....

    Fortunes change.

    I don't think she will stay until 2022, but it's a good line for party stability, for European consumption,and leads probably to a compromise 2020 departure.
    Do people really think May can get to June 2018 in one piece, never mind March 2019? All prejudices aside I genuinely don't. There are too many factions and too many opportunities for ambush.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,146
    The_Apocalypse said:

    When I saw the notification on my phone that May thought she could lead the Tories into 2022 I seriously couldn't believe it. I'm very intrigued to see the response to this among Tories.

    However, in some ways I can understand why May feels this way. Her opponents/potential successors are all unappealing and pretty underwhelming - Boris, David Davis, JRM....

    Shows she is not a quitter and also sends a message to the EU that she is going nowhere.

    As a conservative member it depends on events but i cannot see her leading into the next GE
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,241
    Fraser Nelson on the radio points out that she could hardly say anything else given the question she was asked.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,914
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    When I saw the notification on my phone that May thought she could lead the Tories into 2022 I seriously couldn't believe it. I'm very intrigued to see the response to this among Tories.

    However, in some ways I can understand why May feels this way. Her opponents/potential successors are all unappealing and pretty underwhelming - Boris, David Davis, JRM....

    Shows she is not a quitter and also sends a message to the EU that she is going nowhere.

    As a conservative member it depends on events but i cannot see her leading into the next GE
    G, the EU response will be the same as mine: Jesus, she's delusional.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,328
    Monksfield said:

    Mortimer said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    When I saw the notification on my phone that May thought she could lead the Tories into 2022 I seriously couldn't believe it. I'm very intrigued to see the response to this among Tories.

    However, in some ways I can understand why May feels this way. Her opponents/potential successors are all unappealing and pretty underwhelming - Boris, David Davis, JRM....

    Fortunes change.

    I don't think she will stay until 2022, but it's a good line for party stability, for European consumption,and leads probably to a compromise 2020 departure.
    Do people really think May can get to June 2018 in one piece, never mind March 2019? All prejudices aside I genuinely don't. There are too many factions and too many opportunities for ambush.
    Yup.

    No one will want to challenge for the leadership with so much uncertainty, so there will not be a vote of no confience.

  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,914
    Mortimer said:

    Monksfield said:

    May trolling her own party now.

    Can the contemporary Tory party get any more laughable?

    Just a reminder; we're in government.

    Your lot, who lost, still campaigning like the election hasn't happened yet.
    In Government, but not in power.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,146
    Monksfield said:

    Mortimer said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    When I saw the notification on my phone that May thought she could lead the Tories into 2022 I seriously couldn't believe it. I'm very intrigued to see the response to this among Tories.

    However, in some ways I can understand why May feels this way. Her opponents/potential successors are all unappealing and pretty underwhelming - Boris, David Davis, JRM....

    Fortunes change.

    I don't think she will stay until 2022, but it's a good line for party stability, for European consumption,and leads probably to a compromise 2020 departure.
    Do people really think May can get to June 2018 in one piece, never mind March 2019? All prejudices aside I genuinely don't. There are too many factions and too many opportunities for ambush.
    She will be there until the end of Brexit and possibly longer.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,271
    edited August 2017
    NickPalmer said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Pong said:

    FPT;

    williamglenn said:

    I haven't listened to all of this yet but the French ambassador to the UK summed up the Brexit vote quite pithily: "You had some ideologues in London voting against the EU, and people in the provinces voting against London."

    https://twitter.com/patrickwintour/status/902591350062899201

    That does rather capture it.
    Did this person ask herself why this might have happened? Or, even, whether - just possibly - the actions and/or inactions of the EU over the over 40 years of our membership might have had something to do with this?

    After all we went from a large majority in favour of the EU in 1975 in pretty much every part of the UK to a majority against the EU in 2016 in pretty much the whole of the UK other than NI, Scotland and London.

    40 years experience of membership preceded this result.

    If the EU was so good for the UK - all of it - why such skewed results? Blaming it all on ideologues or a hatred of London doesn't really answer the question. Why did such sentiments resonate to the extent they did? The EU is not entirely without responsibility here.

    4 decades of mass media blaming all kinds of stuff on Brussels, Europhiles not bothering to make the case, plus a general mood of dissatisfaction. Also, opposition to the EU was more mainstream this time - in 1975, the "No" vote was led by Benn+Powell, neither of them widely trusted. This time, a range of opportunists joined in, led by our ever-flexible Foreign Minister.
    This could sound like an excuse, but a lot of the motivation for people voting Leave had nothing to do with the EU. It matters because they will be disappointed when things don't improve as they expect and probably will get worse as a result of their vote.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,328
    Monksfield said:

    Mortimer said:

    Monksfield said:

    May trolling her own party now.

    Can the contemporary Tory party get any more laughable?

    Just a reminder; we're in government.

    Your lot, who lost, still campaigning like the election hasn't happened yet.
    In Government, but not in power.
    What, like the power to leave the EU?
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,914
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Monksfield said:

    Mortimer said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    When I saw the notification on my phone that May thought she could lead the Tories into 2022 I seriously couldn't believe it. I'm very intrigued to see the response to this among Tories.

    However, in some ways I can understand why May feels this way. Her opponents/potential successors are all unappealing and pretty underwhelming - Boris, David Davis, JRM....

    Fortunes change.

    I don't think she will stay until 2022, but it's a good line for party stability, for European consumption,and leads probably to a compromise 2020 departure.
    Do people really think May can get to June 2018 in one piece, never mind March 2019? All prejudices aside I genuinely don't. There are too many factions and too many opportunities for ambush.
    She will be there until the end of Brexit and possibly longer.
    We'll see.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,271
    Sean_F said:

    FF43 said:

    Sean_F said:

    FF43 said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Re helping the youth.

    My initial policies.

    Make universities for the elite, not everyone.

    Make students doing proper degrees, such as the sciences, maths, engineering, medical, teaching, law, and history exempt from tuition fees, and they also get grants, if they remain and work in the UK for five years post graduation they don't have to repay their grants.

    Also give exemptions to those that become teachers.

    I'd also remove university status from the ex polys, having 40/50% of the population attend university is silly.

    If you want your political party to be popular with the under 35 age group,which I think was Casino's challenge, that's the opposite of what you should do. More young people go to university because they have aspirations. Maybe they are misguided but any limiting to the elite will just mean the well connected get in and everyone else will be excluded and they know that. The government should make affordable third level education available to anyone who wants it and meets the minimum standards. They don't necessarily have to subsidise third level education but it should be made more efficient and better value. Then it's up to market forces whether students reckon they come out ahead.
    You are politically right. TSE is morally right.

    Curious why you make the distinction between what is politically right and what is morally right, given students see themselves as consumers?
    I think that TSE is right that in effect, young people, going to poor universities, are being sold a pig in a poke.

    You are right that it would be politically damaging to say so.
    Thanks.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,983
    TM saying she will fight next GE

    Wonderful news
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited August 2017
    chrisoxon said:

    Pong said:

    chrisoxon said:

    For everyone talking about 6% interest and parents remortgaging to pay off student debt please read Martin Lewis's guide on student loans. The vast majority of students will never pay any interest and would be considerably worse off if they made overpayments to clear the debt.

    http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/students/student-loans-tuition-fees-changes

    Martin Lewis was played for a fool by the conservatives.

    The government decided to retrospectively add £6k to the amount median earning Plan2 graduates pay back, just like that.

    Naive wannabe students trusted Martin Lewis, who naively trusted the tories to play fair.

    If the tory party are ever going to win over young people, they'll need to stop picking their pockets.
    So you haven't read what Lewis has written then that says the total amount owed is irre for the vast majority of students?
    Taking out a Plan2 student loan means writing a blank cheque to the exchequer.

    Martin Lewis still doesn't get it.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,271
    geoffw said:

    Fraser Nelson on the radio points out that she could hardly say anything else given the question she was asked.

    Even a lame duck doesn't deliberately hack its own leg off.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,146
    Monksfield said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    When I saw the notification on my phone that May thought she could lead the Tories into 2022 I seriously couldn't believe it. I'm very intrigued to see the response to this among Tories.

    However, in some ways I can understand why May feels this way. Her opponents/potential successors are all unappealing and pretty underwhelming - Boris, David Davis, JRM....

    Shows she is not a quitter and also sends a message to the EU that she is going nowhere.

    As a conservative member it depends on events but i cannot see her leading into the next GE
    G, the EU response will be the same as mine: Jesus, she's delusional.
    It is the EU who are delusional and they are rapidly demonstrating why we need to be free of their pathetic protectionist attitudes.

    Sky just now - UK just slammed the EU counterparts as incapable and is a big moment

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Monksfield said:

    Mortimer said:

    The_Apocalypse said:

    When I saw the notification on my phone that May thought she could lead the Tories into 2022 I seriously couldn't believe it. I'm very intrigued to see the response to this among Tories.

    However, in some ways I can understand why May feels this way. Her opponents/potential successors are all unappealing and pretty underwhelming - Boris, David Davis, JRM....

    Fortunes change.

    I don't think she will stay until 2022, but it's a good line for party stability, for European consumption,and leads probably to a compromise 2020 departure.
    Do people really think May can get to June 2018 in one piece, never mind March 2019? All prejudices aside I genuinely don't. There are too many factions and too many opportunities for ambush.
    She will be there until the end of Brexit and possibly longer.
    End of Brexit in October, election in November?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    She will be there until the end of Brexit and possibly longer.

    Another 10 years. Possibly longer...
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/ladpolitics/status/903009363564138504
  • William_HWilliam_H Posts: 346
    Surely May has to say she's there for the long term, if she's not going immediately? Having a lame duck caretaker PM take us through such a key period would be ridiculous.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    edited August 2017
    bigjohnowls said:

    TM saying she will fight next GE

    Wonderful news

    TICWNFTNGE.

    Not her decision.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,647
    bigjohnowls said:

    TM saying she will fight next GE

    Wonderful news

    Rejoice! Rejoice!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    dixiedean said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    TM saying she will fight next GE

    Wonderful news

    Rejoice! Rejoice!
    A fighter not a quitter, with a core of inner steel (tariff free).
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,631
    Ishmael_Z said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    TM saying she will fight next GE

    Wonderful news

    TICWNFTNGE.

    Not her decision.
    TICWNFTNGE ?? WTF does that mean?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,533
    People might want to hold their horses. Given the question, may could hardly say funny you should ask, I am off in 2 years.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,780
    edited August 2017
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Scott_P said:

    @PolhomeEditor: Maybe she's been hacked. https://twitter.com/johnestevens/status/902999378213965831

    Or perhaps some sort of Stepford Wives malfunction. Or indeed Westworld.
    Philip May: But the polls, Theresa. The headlines! Look at them!
    Theresa May: Doesn't look like anything to me...
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,647
    geoffw said:

    Fraser Nelson on the radio points out that she could hardly say anything else given the question she was asked.

    A politician who is nimble on her feet never answers such a question!
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,983
    Benpointer said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    TM saying she will fight next GE

    Wonderful news

    TICWNFTNGE.

    Not her decision.
    TICWNFTNGE ?? WTF does that mean?
    Teresa is crap will not fight the next General Election.

    What is wrong with you!!!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,314
    edited August 2017
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    People might want to hold their horses. Given the question, may could hardly say funny you should ask, I am off in 2 years.

    Was the question really an ambush that caught her unaware? The way it's hit all the media simultaneously suggests a pre-planned line.

    In fact there are separate clips for Sky, BBC and ITN so it was obviously planned.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,780
    Benpointer said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    bigjohnowls said:

    TM saying she will fight next GE

    Wonderful news

    TICWNFTNGE.

    Not her decision.
    TICWNFTNGE ?? WTF does that mean?
    Theresa Is Crap [and] Will Not Fight The Next General Election

    Now about the Monty Hall problem... :)
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,533
    dixiedean said:

    geoffw said:

    Fraser Nelson on the radio points out that she could hardly say anything else given the question she was asked.

    A politician who is nimble on her feet never answers such a question!
    But we know may isn't.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    viewcode said:

    Now about the Monty Hall problem... :)

    There are 3 doors

    Behind 2 are general elections...
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,647
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    dixiedean said:

    geoffw said:

    Fraser Nelson on the radio points out that she could hardly say anything else given the question she was asked.

    A politician who is nimble on her feet never answers such a question!
    But we know may isn't.
    Indeed.
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,451
    chrisoxon said:

    Pong said:

    chrisoxon said:

    For everyone talking about 6% interest and parents remortgaging to pay off student debt please read Martin Lewis's guide on student loans. The vast majority of students will never pay any interest and would be considerably worse off if they made overpayments to clear the debt.

    http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/students/student-loans-tuition-fees-changes

    Martin Lewis was played for a fool by the conservatives.

    The government decided to retrospectively add £6k to the amount median earning Plan2 graduates pay back, just like that.

    Naive wannabe students trusted Martin Lewis, who naively trusted the tories to play fair.

    If the tory party are ever going to win over young people, they'll need to stop picking their pockets.
    So you haven't read what Lewis has written then that says the total amount owed is irre for the vast majority of students?
    Freezing the repayment threshold DOES impact how much is paid back, because it effectively increases the annual repayment in real terms. Lewis is quite right to complain - no commercial lender would have been allowed to do this.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,146
    edited August 2017
    Expect UK to publically reject the EU commission negotiators tomorrow escalating a crisis to National Government level
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,983
    Scott_P said:

    viewcode said:

    Now about the Monty Hall problem... :)

    There are 3 doors

    Behind 2 are general elections...
    Is the Messiah behind the 3rd door.?

    The one with that number 10 thing on.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,780
    Ishmael_Z said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    So Mrs May intends to fight the 2022 general election.

    Ugh, she really wants to destroy the Tory party.

    Has she said that? And she thinks it's her decision?
    Unsarcastically, if the Conservative party do not have the cojones to force her out, she can stay as long as she likes (or loses an election)
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    TMay simply does not have the mental dexterity to deal with difficult question which is why she goes to great lengths to avoid being pressed. What she should have said is

    "This is completely irrelevant. What matters at the moment is getting the best deal for Britain in the Brexit negotiations and that is where my full focus is."
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,220
    viewcode said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Scott_P said:

    @PolhomeEditor: Maybe she's been hacked. https://twitter.com/johnestevens/status/902999378213965831

    Or perhaps some sort of Stepford Wives malfunction. Or indeed Westworld.
    Philip May: But the polls, Theresa. The headlines! Look at them!
    Theresa May: Doesn't look like anything to me...
    Like the ICM poll yesterday which had the Tories and Labour tied you mean? The BMG poll this month which had the Tories 3 points ahead you mean? The Survation last month which had May doing better than Davis, Hammond and Rudd v Corbyn with only Boris doing fractionally better?

    Though I think she will still go after Brexit, probably to be succeeded by Boris, she knows that if she confirms now she is going before the next general election she becomes an immediate lame duck throughout the Brexit talks
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    viewcode said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    So Mrs May intends to fight the 2022 general election.

    Ugh, she really wants to destroy the Tory party.

    Has she said that? And she thinks it's her decision?
    Unsarcastically, if the Conservative party do not have the cojones to force her out, she can stay as long as she likes (or loses an election)
    Well she lost the Tories their hard-earned majority and sought to carry on. Maybe after GE2022 she'll still strive to be there even if LAB wins
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