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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » NEW PB / Polling Matters podcast: Discussing the Brexit talks with Jonathan Portes

The PB/Polling Matters podcast returns with a review of the summer and in-depth interview on the Brexit talks and where Britain goes from here with Jonathan Portes.

Read the full story here

tlg86

First

Mortimer

Second, like Corbo.

Charles

@Alanbrooke FPT

Don't hold back: what do you really think?

Pong

FPT;

williamglenn said:

I haven't listened to all of this yet but the French ambassador to the UK summed up the Brexit vote quite pithily: "You had some ideologues in London voting against the EU, and people in the provinces voting against London."

https://twitter.com/patrickwintour/status/902591350062899201

That does rather capture it.

Cyclefree

FPT: in response to @CasinoRoyale

Eliminating the interest on student loans would help. Also building houses and flats. Those two would be a start.

Maybe also increasing the amount which can be given away during life so that parents can help their children earlier in life and not just on death. Making it tax efficient for parents to give away part of their home to children while still living in part of it may also help.

Charles

Cyclefree said:

FPT: in response to @CasinoRoyale

Eliminating the interest on student loans would help. Also building houses and flats. Those two would be a start.

Maybe also increasing the amount which can be given away during life so that parents can help their children earlier in life and not just on death. Making it tax efficient for parents to give away part of their home to children while still living in part of it may also help.

Send me your new contacts when you have a moment - would be good to stay in touch. Offer of 2TP still open if you need it for something

Mortimer

Cyclefree said:

FPT: in response to @CasinoRoyale

Eliminating the interest on student loans would help. Also building houses and flats. Those two would be a start.

Maybe also increasing the amount which can be given away during life so that parents can help their children earlier in life and not just on death. Making it tax efficient for parents to give away part of their home to children while still living in part of it may also help.

Agree entirely on building. It's one of the few areas where I think the Govt should actively intervene in the market. It is clearly not working efficently.

Disagree on tax efficiency on gifts, though, I'm afraid. We don't have a capital transfer tax in this country, and as with gift aid, it would erode the tax base largely to the benefit of the privileged.

Ishmael_Z

jd portes describes where we are as "negotiating our way out of this mess we're in". Harsh but fair.

Cyclefree

Pong said:

FPT;

williamglenn said:

I haven't listened to all of this yet but the French ambassador to the UK summed up the Brexit vote quite pithily: "You had some ideologues in London voting against the EU, and people in the provinces voting against London."

https://twitter.com/patrickwintour/status/902591350062899201

That does rather capture it.

Did this person ask herself why this might have happened? Or, even, whether - just possibly - the actions and/or inactions of the EU over the over 40 years of our membership might have had something to do with this?

After all we went from a large majority in favour of the EU in 1975 in pretty much every part of the UK to a majority against the EU in 2016 in pretty much the whole of the UK other than NI, Scotland and London.

40 years experience of membership preceded this result.

If the EU was so good for the UK - all of it - why such skewed results? Blaming it all on ideologues or a hatred of London doesn't really answer the question. Why did such sentiments resonate to the extent they did? The EU is not entirely without responsibility here.

TheScreamingEagles

On topic, Excellent podcast.

Off topic, God no, she deserves to be flogged.

https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/902977947358941188

TheScreamingEagles

Re helping the youth.

My initial policies.

Make universities for the elite, not everyone.

Make students doing proper degrees, such as the sciences, maths, engineering, medical, teaching, law, and history exempt from tuition fees, and they also get grants, if they remain and work in the UK for five years post graduation they don't have to repay their grants.

Also give exemptions to those that become teachers.

I'd also remove university status from the ex polys, having 40/50% of the population attend university is silly.

Cyclefree

Charles said:

Cyclefree said:

FPT: in response to @CasinoRoyale

Eliminating the interest on student loans would help. Also building houses and flats. Those two would be a start.

Maybe also increasing the amount which can be given away during life so that parents can help their children earlier in life and not just on death. Making it tax efficient for parents to give away part of their home to children while still living in part of it may also help.

Send me your new contacts when you have a moment - would be good to stay in touch. Offer of 2TP still open if you need it for something

VM for you.

Cyclefree

TheScreamingEagles said:

Re helping the youth.

My initial policies.

Make universities for the elite, not everyone.

Make students doing proper degrees, such as the sciences, maths, engineering, medical, teaching, law, and history exempt from tuition fees, and they also get grants, if they remain and work in the UK for five years post graduation they don't have to repay their grants.

Also give exemptions to those that become teachers.

I'd also remove university status from the ex polys, having 40/50% of the population attend university is silly.

Make it possible to be nurses without needing a degree. I'd also include languages in your list.

We also need to find a way of allowing parents to pass on wealth to their young at an early stage of their lives, when they need it most.

TheScreamingEagles

A tragedy, A TRAGEDY.

https://twitter.com/FakeShowbizNews/status/902987695139553280

Casino_Royale

Cyclefree said:

FPT: in response to @CasinoRoyale

Eliminating the interest on student loans would help. Also building houses and flats. Those two would be a start.

Maybe also increasing the amount which can be given away during life so that parents can help their children earlier in life and not just on death. Making it tax efficient for parents to give away part of their home to children while still living in part of it may also help.

Thanks. I do see some progress on homebuilding, actually, but we're nowhere near there yet.

Casino_Royale

Cyclefree said:

Pong said:

FPT;

williamglenn said:

I haven't listened to all of this yet but the French ambassador to the UK summed up the Brexit vote quite pithily: "You had some ideologues in London voting against the EU, and people in the provinces voting against London."

https://twitter.com/patrickwintour/status/902591350062899201

That does rather capture it.

Did this person ask herself why this might have happened? Or, even, whether - just possibly - the actions and/or inactions of the EU over the over 40 years of our membership might have had something to do with this?

After all we went from a large majority in favour of the EU in 1975 in pretty much every part of the UK to a majority against the EU in 2016 in pretty much the whole of the UK other than NI, Scotland and London.

40 years experience of membership preceded this result.

If the EU was so good for the UK - all of it - why such skewed results? Blaming it all on ideologues or a hatred of London doesn't really answer the question. Why did such sentiments resonate to the extent they did? The EU is not entirely without responsibility here.

No. They think it's our problem, not theirs.

Anyone seriously thinking of Bremaining should consider just what an unrepentant and totally unselfaware institution it really is.

Casino_Royale

TheScreamingEagles said:

Re helping the youth.

My initial policies.

Make universities for the elite, not everyone.

Make students doing proper degrees, such as the sciences, maths, engineering, medical, teaching, law, and history exempt from tuition fees, and they also get grants, if they remain and work in the UK for five years post graduation they don't have to repay their grants.

Also give exemptions to those that become teachers.

I'd also remove university status from the ex polys, having 40/50% of the population attend university is silly.

I agree with a fair bit of that.

chrisoxon

For everyone talking about 6% interest and parents remortgaging to pay off student debt please read Martin Lewis's guide on student loans. The vast majority of students will never pay any interest and would be considerably worse off if they made overpayments to clear the debt.

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/students/student-loans-tuition-fees-changes

Ishmael_Z

Cyclefree said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Re helping the youth.

My initial policies.

Make universities for the elite, not everyone.

Make students doing proper degrees, such as the sciences, maths, engineering, medical, teaching, law, and history exempt from tuition fees, and they also get grants, if they remain and work in the UK for five years post graduation they don't have to repay their grants.

Also give exemptions to those that become teachers.

I'd also remove university status from the ex polys, having 40/50% of the population attend university is silly.

Make it possible to be nurses without needing a degree. I'd also include languages in your list.

We also need to find a way of allowing parents to pass on wealth to their young at an early stage of their lives, when they need it most.

They already can; anyone under 60 and not obviously ill can be pretty confident of living the necessary 7 years to make inter vivos transfers IHT exempt. They can probably even get life insurance at affordable rates to cover any unexpected iht hit.

Allan

Casino_Royale said:

Cyclefree said:

Pong said:

FPT;

williamglenn said:

I haven't listened to all of this yet but the French ambassador to the UK summed up the Brexit vote quite pithily: "You had some ideologues in London voting against the EU, and people in the provinces voting against London."

https://twitter.com/patrickwintour/status/902591350062899201

That does rather capture it.

Did this person ask herself why this might have happened? Or, even, whether - just possibly - the actions and/or inactions of the EU over the over 40 years of our membership might have had something to do with this?

After all we went from a large majority in favour of the EU in 1975 in pretty much every part of the UK to a majority against the EU in 2016 in pretty much the whole of the UK other than NI, Scotland and London.

40 years experience of membership preceded this result.

If the EU was so good for the UK - all of it - why such skewed results? Blaming it all on ideologues or a hatred of London doesn't really answer the question. Why did such sentiments resonate to the extent they did? The EU is not entirely without responsibility here.

No. They think it's our problem, not theirs.

Anyone seriously thinking of Bremaining should consider just what an unrepentant and totally unselfaware institution it really is.

They rigged the system so we ended up paying more than our fair share. We then got Blair's government with their elitist stupidity towards immigration and life for the workers in the working class did not improve.

Sean_F

Cyclefree said:

Pong said:

FPT;

williamglenn said:

I haven't listened to all of this yet but the French ambassador to the UK summed up the Brexit vote quite pithily: "You had some ideologues in London voting against the EU, and people in the provinces voting against London."

https://twitter.com/patrickwintour/status/902591350062899201

That does rather capture it.

Did this person ask herself why this might have happened? Or, even, whether - just possibly - the actions and/or inactions of the EU over the over 40 years of our membership might have had something to do with this?

After all we went from a large majority in favour of the EU in 1975 in pretty much every part of the UK to a majority against the EU in 2016 in pretty much the whole of the UK other than NI, Scotland and London.

40 years experience of membership preceded this result.

If the EU was so good for the UK - all of it - why such skewed results? Blaming it all on ideologues or a hatred of London doesn't really answer the question. Why did such sentiments resonate to the extent they did? The EU is not entirely without responsibility here.

All the more striking when you consider that 75-80% of 18-34 year olds voted Remain in 1975, but two thirds of the same age cohort voted Leave, last year.

Casino_Royale

Sean_F said:

Cyclefree said:

Pong said:

FPT;

williamglenn said:

I haven't listened to all of this yet but the French ambassador to the UK summed up the Brexit vote quite pithily: "You had some ideologues in London voting against the EU, and people in the provinces voting against London."

https://twitter.com/patrickwintour/status/902591350062899201

That does rather capture it.

Did this person ask herself why this might have happened? Or, even, whether - just possibly - the actions and/or inactions of the EU over the over 40 years of our membership might have had something to do with this?

After all we went from a large majority in favour of the EU in 1975 in pretty much every part of the UK to a majority against the EU in 2016 in pretty much the whole of the UK other than NI, Scotland and London.

40 years experience of membership preceded this result.

If the EU was so good for the UK - all of it - why such skewed results? Blaming it all on ideologues or a hatred of London doesn't really answer the question. Why did such sentiments resonate to the extent they did? The EU is not entirely without responsibility here.

All the more striking when you consider that 75-80% of 18-34 year olds voted Remain in 1975, but two thirds of the same age cohort voted Leave, last year.

The EU have yet to learn that if they showed a bit more humility and understanding they might be more popular.

They might never learn. They might simply not care, or view it as a nice to have but not essential.

williamglenn

Sean_F said:

Cyclefree said:

Pong said:

FPT;

williamglenn said:

I haven't listened to all of this yet but the French ambassador to the UK summed up the Brexit vote quite pithily: "You had some ideologues in London voting against the EU, and people in the provinces voting against London."

https://twitter.com/patrickwintour/status/902591350062899201

That does rather capture it.

Did this person ask herself why this might have happened? Or, even, whether - just possibly - the actions and/or inactions of the EU over the over 40 years of our membership might have had something to do with this?

After all we went from a large majority in favour of the EU in 1975 in pretty much every part of the UK to a majority against the EU in 2016 in pretty much the whole of the UK other than NI, Scotland and London.

40 years experience of membership preceded this result.

If the EU was so good for the UK - all of it - why such skewed results? Blaming it all on ideologues or a hatred of London doesn't really answer the question. Why did such sentiments resonate to the extent they did? The EU is not entirely without responsibility here.

All the more striking when you consider that 75-80% of 18-34 year olds voted Remain in 1975, but two thirds of the same age cohort voted Leave, last year.

If that were true it would have been a landslide for Leave.
https://twitter.com/POLITICOEurope/status/746255941331488768

Mortimer

williamglenn said:

Sean_F said:

Cyclefree said:

Pong said:

FPT;

williamglenn said:

I haven't listened to all of this yet but the French ambassador to the UK summed up the Brexit vote quite pithily: "You had some ideologues in London voting against the EU, and people in the provinces voting against London."

https://twitter.com/patrickwintour/status/902591350062899201

That does rather capture it.

Did this person ask herself why this might have happened? Or, even, whether - just possibly - the actions and/or inactions of the EU over the over 40 years of our membership might have had something to do with this?

After all we went from a large majority in favour of the EU in 1975 in pretty much every part of the UK to a majority against the EU in 2016 in pretty much the whole of the UK other than NI, Scotland and London.

40 years experience of membership preceded this result.

If the EU was so good for the UK - all of it - why such skewed results? Blaming it all on ideologues or a hatred of London doesn't really answer the question. Why did such sentiments resonate to the extent they did? The EU is not entirely without responsibility here.

All the more striking when you consider that 75-80% of 18-34 year olds voted Remain in 1975, but two thirds of the same age cohort voted Leave, last year.

If that were true it would have been a landslide for Leave.
https://twitter.com/POLITICOEurope/status/746255941331488768

The same cohort. Ie people aged 60+

Ishmael_Z

chrisoxon said:

For everyone talking about 6% interest and parents remortgaging to pay off student debt please read Martin Lewis's guide on student loans. The vast majority of students will never pay any interest and would be considerably worse off if they made overpayments to clear the debt.

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/students/student-loans-tuition-fees-changes

Yes I know (the gist of) that. The subtext of it is the rather dispiriting "Don't worry because university education is now so worthless that you're unlikely ever to make more than a provincial bus driver". If 6% interest is unjust it's unjust, irrespective of how many people it affects.

Pong

chrisoxon said:

For everyone talking about 6% interest and parents remortgaging to pay off student debt please read Martin Lewis's guide on student loans. The vast majority of students will never pay any interest and would be considerably worse off if they made overpayments to clear the debt.

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/students/student-loans-tuition-fees-changes

Martin Lewis was played for a fool by the conservatives.

The government decided to retrospectively add £6k to the amount median earning Plan2 graduates pay back, just like that.

Naive wannabe students trusted Martin Lewis, who naively trusted the tories to play fair.

If the tory party are ever going to win over young people, they'll need to stop picking their pockets.

TheScreamingEagles

So Mrs May intends to fight the 2022 general election.

Ugh, she really wants to destroy the Tory party.

Sean_F

williamglenn said:

Sean_F said:

Cyclefree said:

Pong said:

FPT;

williamglenn said:

I haven't listened to all of this yet but the French ambassador to the UK summed up the Brexit vote quite pithily: "You had some ideologues in London voting against the EU, and people in the provinces voting against London."

https://twitter.com/patrickwintour/status/902591350062899201

That does rather capture it.

Did this person ask herself why this might have happened? Or, even, whether - just possibly - the actions and/or inactions of the EU over the over 40 years of our membership might have had something to do with this?

After all we went from a large majority in favour of the EU in 1975 in pretty much every part of the UK to a majority against the EU in 2016 in pretty much the whole of the UK other than NI, Scotland and London.

40 years experience of membership preceded this result.

If the EU was so good for the UK - all of it - why such skewed results? Blaming it all on ideologues or a hatred of London doesn't really answer the question. Why did such sentiments resonate to the extent they did? The EU is not entirely without responsibility here.

All the more striking when you consider that 75-80% of 18-34 year olds voted Remain in 1975, but two thirds of the same age cohort voted Leave, last year.

If that were true it would have been a landslide for Leave.
https://twitter.com/POLITICOEurope/status/746255941331488768

By same age cohort, I mean the 18-34 year olds of 1975 who were 59-75 year olds in 2016.

What made them turn against the EU?

williamglenn

Mortimer said:

The same cohort. Ie people aged 60+

Sorry I missed the point then... My explanation for that would be that they are the group that bought into the big lie. Not £350m a week, nor immigration, nor even trading with the world, but the idea that we only voted to join a trading bloc and not a political union. This line was all the more persuasive because it gave people a grievance, and had just enough truthiness given the dramatic evolution of the EU since the end of the Cold War to be believable.

geoffw

deleted

Ishmael_Z

TheScreamingEagles said:

So Mrs May intends to fight the 2022 general election.

Ugh, she really wants to destroy the Tory party.

Has she said that? And she thinks it's her decision?

Sean_F

williamglenn said:

Mortimer said:

The same cohort. Ie people aged 60+

Sorry I missed the point then... My explanation for that would be that they are the group that bought into the big lie. Not £350m a week, nor immigration, nor even trading with the world, but the idea that we only voted to join a trading bloc and not a political union.

So, surely the pro-EU side must have been the ones who were misleading them in 1975?

Or, more charitably, they failed to explain themselves.

TheScreamingEagles

Ishmael_Z said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

So Mrs May intends to fight the 2022 general election.

Ugh, she really wants to destroy the Tory party.

Has she said that? And she thinks it's her decision?

Yup.

https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/902996548379971584

FF43

TheScreamingEagles said:

Re helping the youth.

My initial policies.

Make universities for the elite, not everyone.

Make students doing proper degrees, such as the sciences, maths, engineering, medical, teaching, law, and history exempt from tuition fees, and they also get grants, if they remain and work in the UK for five years post graduation they don't have to repay their grants.

Also give exemptions to those that become teachers.

I'd also remove university status from the ex polys, having 40/50% of the population attend university is silly.

If you want your political party to be popular with the under 35 age group,which I think was Casino's challenge, that's the opposite of what you should do. More young people go to university because they have aspirations. Maybe they are misguided but any limiting to the elite will just mean the well connected get in and everyone else will be excluded and they know that. The government should make affordable third level education available to anyone who wants it and meets the minimum standards. They don't necessarily have to subsidise third level education but it should be made more efficient and better value. Then it's up to market forces whether students reckon they come out ahead.

Ishmael_Z

williamglenn said:

Mortimer said:

The same cohort. Ie people aged 60+

Sorry I missed the point then... My explanation for that would be that they are the group that bought into the big lie. Not £350m a week, nor immigration, nor even trading with the world, but the idea that we only voted to join a trading bloc and not a political union.

How old are you? Because I was there, and I can promise you the country voted to join a trading bloc. And we don't have to bicker about it, or trade footage of Grocer Heath wibbling away to the Oxford Union, we just have to look at the question: "Do you think the United Kingdom should stay in the European Community (the Common Market)?" The bit in brackets is because that was what everyone called it, and thought it was.

williamglenn

Casino_Royale said:

The EU have yet to learn that if they showed a bit more humility and understanding they might be more popular.

They might never learn. They might simply not care, or view it as a nice to have but not essential.

The primary responsibility for selling the benefits of political cooperation with neighbouring countries within the EU is the national political class of each country. Each time there's a general election it should be an opportunity to reaffirm this cooperation or set limits on what new steps have a mandate and what don't, but in any case to have a frank debate.

Somewhere along the line our national conversation on the subject became irretrievably dysfunctional.

Scott_P

https://twitter.com/pickardje/status/902999768250683393

TheScreamingEagles

Where's the Leo Amery de nos jours ?

chrisoxon

Ishmael_Z said:

chrisoxon said:

For everyone talking about 6% interest and parents remortgaging to pay off student debt please read Martin Lewis's guide on student loans. The vast majority of students will never pay any interest and would be considerably worse off if they made overpayments to clear the debt.

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/students/student-loans-tuition-fees-changes

Yes I know (the gist of) that. The subtext of it is the rather dispiriting "Don't worry because university education is now so worthless that you're unlikely ever to make more than a provincial bus driver". If 6% interest is unjust it's unjust, irrespective of how many people it affects.

You need to be earning a significant salary to have any prospect of repaying the principle let alone the interest. Average earnings of £31,000 won't even cover it.

The Government could just rename it a graduate tax and forget individual amounts 'owed' and would receive rapturous applause. Would be dumb though as most graduates would end up paying even more than they do now as there wouldn't be a max amount to pay (loan amount) or a limit of 30 years.

I wish I was on the 2012 scheme rather than the earlier scheme - we have a lower repayment threshold. The amount is irrelevant, I don't even know how much I still owe.

chrisoxon

Pong said:

chrisoxon said:

For everyone talking about 6% interest and parents remortgaging to pay off student debt please read Martin Lewis's guide on student loans. The vast majority of students will never pay any interest and would be considerably worse off if they made overpayments to clear the debt.

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/students/student-loans-tuition-fees-changes

Martin Lewis was played for a fool by the conservatives.

The government decided to retrospectively add £6k to the amount median earning Plan2 graduates pay back, just like that.

Naive wannabe students trusted Martin Lewis, who naively trusted the tories to play fair.

If the tory party are ever going to win over young people, they'll need to stop picking their pockets.

So you haven't read what Lewis has written then that says the total amount owed is irre for the vast majority of students?

Sean_F

FF43 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Re helping the youth.

My initial policies.

Make universities for the elite, not everyone.

Make students doing proper degrees, such as the sciences, maths, engineering, medical, teaching, law, and history exempt from tuition fees, and they also get grants, if they remain and work in the UK for five years post graduation they don't have to repay their grants.

Also give exemptions to those that become teachers.

I'd also remove university status from the ex polys, having 40/50% of the population attend university is silly.

If you want your political party to be popular with the under 35 age group,which I think was Casino's challenge, that's the opposite of what you should do. More young people go to university because they have aspirations. Maybe they are misguided but any limiting to the elite will just mean the well connected get in and everyone else will be excluded and they know that. The government should make affordable third level education available to anyone who wants it and meets the minimum standards. They don't necessarily have to subsidise third level education but it should be made more efficient and better value. Then it's up to market forces whether students reckon they come out ahead.

You are politically right. TSE is morally right.

Ishmael_Z

TheScreamingEagles said:

Ishmael_Z said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

So Mrs May intends to fight the 2022 general election.

Ugh, she really wants to destroy the Tory party.

Has she said that? And she thinks it's her decision?

Yup.

hts://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/902996548379971584

My guess is she is still taking advice on the quiet from Beardie and Fi. She cannot have attained such levels of lunacy without outside help.

Charles

FF43 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Re helping the youth.

My initial policies.

Make universities for the elite, not everyone.

Make students doing proper degrees, such as the sciences, maths, engineering, medical, teaching, law, and history exempt from tuition fees, and they also get grants, if they remain and work in the UK for five years post graduation they don't have to repay their grants.

Also give exemptions to those that become teachers.

I'd also remove university status from the ex polys, having 40/50% of the population attend university is silly.

If you want your political party to be popular with the under 35 age group,which I think was Casino's challenge, that's the opposite of what you should do. More young people go to university because they have aspirations. Maybe they are misguided but any limiting to the elite will just mean the well connected get in and everyone else will be excluded and they know that. The government should make affordable third level education available to anyone who wants it and meets the minimum standards. They don't necessarily have to subsidise third level education but it should be made more efficient and better value. Then it's up to market forces whether students reckon they come out ahead.

Make it 2 years for a start. Buckingham University is good value compared to many alternatives

FF43

Sean_F said:

FF43 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Re helping the youth.

My initial policies.

Make universities for the elite, not everyone.

Make students doing proper degrees, such as the sciences, maths, engineering, medical, teaching, law, and history exempt from tuition fees, and they also get grants, if they remain and work in the UK for five years post graduation they don't have to repay their grants.

Also give exemptions to those that become teachers.

I'd also remove university status from the ex polys, having 40/50% of the population attend university is silly.

If you want your political party to be popular with the under 35 age group,which I think was Casino's challenge, that's the opposite of what you should do. More young people go to university because they have aspirations. Maybe they are misguided but any limiting to the elite will just mean the well connected get in and everyone else will be excluded and they know that. The government should make affordable third level education available to anyone who wants it and meets the minimum standards. They don't necessarily have to subsidise third level education but it should be made more efficient and better value. Then it's up to market forces whether students reckon they come out ahead.

You are politically right. TSE is morally right.

Curious why you make the distinction between what is politically right and what is morally right, given students see themselves as consumers?

williamglenn

Ishmael_Z said:

williamglenn said:

Mortimer said:

The same cohort. Ie people aged 60+

Sorry I missed the point then... My explanation for that would be that they are the group that bought into the big lie. Not £350m a week, nor immigration, nor even trading with the world, but the idea that we only voted to join a trading bloc and not a political union.

How old are you? Because I was there, and I can promise you the country voted to join a trading bloc. And we don't have to bicker about it, or trade footage of Grocer Heath wibbling away to the Oxford Union, we just have to look at the question: "Do you think the United Kingdom should stay in the European Community (the Common Market)?" The bit in brackets is because that was what everyone called it, and thought it was.

I agree there's no point going over that ground again. The main point that's indisputable is there was an adequate mandate in 1975 was for what the European Community was at the time.

I don't think it's in the 70s that the pro-EU side didn't explain themselves, but subsequently. Particularly in the 90s and beyond there was a complete loss of confidence that the argument could be won which meant centrist politicians stopped trying, until suddenly one day David Cameron tore off his sceptical mask and told us all to vote Remain or the sky would fall in, with predictable results...

The_Apocalypse

FF43 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Re helping the youth.

My initial policies.

Make universities for the elite, not everyone.

Make students doing proper degrees, such as the sciences, maths, engineering, medical, teaching, law, and history exempt from tuition fees, and they also get grants, if they remain and work in the UK for five years post graduation they don't have to repay their grants.

Also give exemptions to those that become teachers.

I'd also remove university status from the ex polys, having 40/50% of the population attend university is silly.

If you want your political party to be popular with the under 35 age group,which I think was Casino's challenge, that's the opposite of what you should do. More young people go to university because they have aspirations. Maybe they are misguided but any limiting to the elite will just mean the well connected get in and everyone else will be excluded and they know that. The government should make affordable third level education available to anyone who wants it and meets the minimum standards. They don't necessarily have to subsidise third level education but it should be made more efficient and better value. Then it's up to market forces whether students reckon they come out ahead.

This. So many Conservatives really don't understand how to appeal to young people at all. I also think a lot of the negative commentary about young people is going to have to go as well. I'd recommend not listening to anything Brendan O'Neill says if you want to appeal to the under 35s. No one is won over by being told how terrible they are. I'm noticing that there is also this negative sentiment towards young people among some US Conservatives as well. Seeing quite a few videos/tweets/articles about how 'terrible' Millennials all are....

Scott_P

@PolhomeEditor: Maybe she's been hacked. https://twitter.com/johnestevens/status/902999378213965831

PeterC

TheScreamingEagles said:

Where's the Leo Amery de nos jours ?

My mother knew Leo Amery. He was apparently fiercely intellectual but also a very kind and charming man. He was utterly devastated by his wayward and traitorous son, Jack, who was hanged for treason. JRM?

GIN1138

Oh dear.

Theresa want's to fight the 2022 election?

http://news.sky.com/story/theresa-may-sets-out-bid-to-lead-tories-in-2022-general-election-11012965

I had hoped she'd bow out gracefully in 2019... But if she wants to stick around beyond 2019 the Tories will just have to eviscerate her - No way can she be allowed anywhere near another general election campaign...

NickPalmer

Cyclefree said:

Pong said:

FPT;

williamglenn said:

I haven't listened to all of this yet but the French ambassador to the UK summed up the Brexit vote quite pithily: "You had some ideologues in London voting against the EU, and people in the provinces voting against London."

https://twitter.com/patrickwintour/status/902591350062899201

That does rather capture it.

Did this person ask herself why this might have happened? Or, even, whether - just possibly - the actions and/or inactions of the EU over the over 40 years of our membership might have had something to do with this?

After all we went from a large majority in favour of the EU in 1975 in pretty much every part of the UK to a majority against the EU in 2016 in pretty much the whole of the UK other than NI, Scotland and London.

40 years experience of membership preceded this result.

If the EU was so good for the UK - all of it - why such skewed results? Blaming it all on ideologues or a hatred of London doesn't really answer the question. Why did such sentiments resonate to the extent they did? The EU is not entirely without responsibility here.

4 decades of mass media blaming all kinds of stuff on Brussels, Europhiles not bothering to make the case, plus a general mood of dissatisfaction. Also, opposition to the EU was more mainstream this time - in 1975, the "No" vote was led by Benn+Powell, neither of them widely trusted. This time, a range of opportunists joined in, led by our ever-flexible Foreign Minister.

williamglenn

TheScreamingEagles said:

Where's the Leo Amery de nos jours ?

"As a mother, I know when it's time to say the party's over."

Ishmael_Z

Scott_P said:

@PolhomeEditor: Maybe she's been hacked. https://twitter.com/johnestevens/status/902999378213965831

Or perhaps some sort of Stepford Wives malfunction. Or indeed Westworld.

chrisoxon

Charles said:

FF43 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Re helping the youth.

My initial policies.

Make universities for the elite, not everyone.

Make students doing proper degrees, such as the sciences, maths, engineering, medical, teaching, law, and history exempt from tuition fees, and they also get grants, if they remain and work in the UK for five years post graduation they don't have to repay their grants.

Also give exemptions to those that become teachers.

I'd also remove university status from the ex polys, having 40/50% of the population attend university is silly.

If you want your political party to be popular with the under 35 age group,which I think was Casino's challenge, that's the opposite of what you should do. More young people go to university because they have aspirations. Maybe they are misguided but any limiting to the elite will just mean the well connected get in and everyone else will be excluded and they know that. The government should make affordable third level education available to anyone who wants it and meets the minimum standards. They don't necessarily have to subsidise third level education but it should be made more efficient and better value. Then it's up to market forces whether students reckon they come out ahead.

Make it 2 years for a start. Buckingham University is good value compared to many alternatives

Graduate Apprenticeships need to pushed in the same way that university is. Get paid while you earn a valuable qualification. I wish these had been on offer when I was leaving school.

Universities need cutting back. If research isn't your focus you're not a university, you're a glorified school.

The_Apocalypse

When I saw the notification on my phone that May thought she could lead the Tories into 2022 I seriously couldn't believe it. I'm very intrigued to see the response to this among Tories.

However, in some ways I can understand why May feels this way. Her opponents/potential successors are all unappealing and pretty underwhelming - Boris, David Davis, JRM....

williamglenn

Ishmael_Z said:

Scott_P said:

@PolhomeEditor: Maybe she's been hacked. https://twitter.com/johnestevens/status/902999378213965831

Or perhaps some sort of Stepford Wives malfunction. Or indeed Westworld.

Perhaps she really has had enough and thinks the only way to get someone to depose her is to say she'll never leave.

Sean_F

FF43 said:

Sean_F said:

FF43 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Re helping the youth.

My initial policies.

Make universities for the elite, not everyone.

Make students doing proper degrees, such as the sciences, maths, engineering, medical, teaching, law, and history exempt from tuition fees, and they also get grants, if they remain and work in the UK for five years post graduation they don't have to repay their grants.

Also give exemptions to those that become teachers.

I'd also remove university status from the ex polys, having 40/50% of the population attend university is silly.

If you want your political party to be popular with the under 35 age group,which I think was Casino's challenge, that's the opposite of what you should do. More young people go to university because they have aspirations. Maybe they are misguided but any limiting to the elite will just mean the well connected get in and everyone else will be excluded and they know that. The government should make affordable third level education available to anyone who wants it and meets the minimum standards. They don't necessarily have to subsidise third level education but it should be made more efficient and better value. Then it's up to market forces whether students reckon they come out ahead.

You are politically right. TSE is morally right.

Curious why you make the distinction between what is politically right and what is morally right, given students see themselves as consumers?

I think that TSE is right that in effect, young people, going to poor universities, are being sold a pig in a poke.

You are right that it would be politically damaging to say so.

GIN1138

The_Apocalypse said:

When I saw the notification on my phone that May thought she could lead the Tories into 2022 I seriously couldn't believe it. I'm very intrigued to see the response to this among Tories.

I imagine the Tories will nod and smile politely... Then knife her in the back and the front in 2019.

Monksfield

May trolling her own party now.

Can the contemporary Tory party get any more laughable?

Mortimer

The_Apocalypse said:

When I saw the notification on my phone that May thought she could lead the Tories into 2022 I seriously couldn't believe it. I'm very intrigued to see the response to this among Tories.

However, in some ways I can understand why May feels this way. Her opponents/potential successors are all unappealing and pretty underwhelming - Boris, David Davis, JRM....

Fortunes change.

I don't think she will stay until 2022, but it's a good line for party stability, for European consumption,and leads probably to a compromise 2020 departure.

Mortimer

Monksfield said:

May trolling her own party now.

Can the contemporary Tory party get any more laughable?

Just a reminder; we're in government.

Your lot, who lost, still campaigning like the election hasn't happened yet.

dixiedean

FF43 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Re helping the youth.

My initial policies.

Make universities for the elite, not everyone.

Make students doing proper degrees, such as the sciences, maths, engineering, medical, teaching, law, and history exempt from tuition fees, and they also get grants, if they remain and work in the UK for five years post graduation they don't have to repay their grants.

Also give exemptions to those that become teachers.

I'd also remove university status from the ex polys, having 40/50% of the population attend university is silly.

If you want your political party to be popular with the under 35 age group,which I think was Casino's challenge, that's the opposite of what you should do. More young people go to university because they have aspirations. Maybe they are misguided but any limiting to the elite will just mean the well connected get in and everyone else will be excluded and they know that. The government should make affordable third level education available to anyone who wants it and meets the minimum standards. They don't necessarily have to subsidise third level education but it should be made more efficient and better value. Then it's up to market forces whether students reckon they come out ahead.

For aspirations, you also need to offer something to the 50% who have no prospect of attending University. With employment at record levels, many are stuck in jobs which do not match their ambitions for the future.

A proper look at the FE sector would be good. Make it easy and cheap to re-train at local Colleges. This sector has been decimated by successive governments keen to keep spending on Schools up. We need to get back to the idea that "Night School" is an attractive and affordable route for the ambitious and self-motivated, but qualificationally-challenged.

That means proper funding and subsidised fees, but also a motivated workforce. Real jobs not ZHC for FE lecturers.

Monksfield

Mortimer said:

The_Apocalypse said:

When I saw the notification on my phone that May thought she could lead the Tories into 2022 I seriously couldn't believe it. I'm very intrigued to see the response to this among Tories.

However, in some ways I can understand why May feels this way. Her opponents/potential successors are all unappealing and pretty underwhelming - Boris, David Davis, JRM....

Fortunes change.

I don't think she will stay until 2022, but it's a good line for party stability, for European consumption,and leads probably to a compromise 2020 departure.

Do people really think May can get to June 2018 in one piece, never mind March 2019? All prejudices aside I genuinely don't. There are too many factions and too many opportunities for ambush.

Big_G_NorthWales

The_Apocalypse said:

When I saw the notification on my phone that May thought she could lead the Tories into 2022 I seriously couldn't believe it. I'm very intrigued to see the response to this among Tories.

However, in some ways I can understand why May feels this way. Her opponents/potential successors are all unappealing and pretty underwhelming - Boris, David Davis, JRM....

Shows she is not a quitter and also sends a message to the EU that she is going nowhere.

As a conservative member it depends on events but i cannot see her leading into the next GE

geoffw

Fraser Nelson on the radio points out that she could hardly say anything else given the question she was asked.

Monksfield

Big_G_NorthWales said:

The_Apocalypse said:

When I saw the notification on my phone that May thought she could lead the Tories into 2022 I seriously couldn't believe it. I'm very intrigued to see the response to this among Tories.

However, in some ways I can understand why May feels this way. Her opponents/potential successors are all unappealing and pretty underwhelming - Boris, David Davis, JRM....

Shows she is not a quitter and also sends a message to the EU that she is going nowhere.

As a conservative member it depends on events but i cannot see her leading into the next GE

G, the EU response will be the same as mine: Jesus, she's delusional.

Mortimer

Monksfield said:

Mortimer said:

The_Apocalypse said:

When I saw the notification on my phone that May thought she could lead the Tories into 2022 I seriously couldn't believe it. I'm very intrigued to see the response to this among Tories.

However, in some ways I can understand why May feels this way. Her opponents/potential successors are all unappealing and pretty underwhelming - Boris, David Davis, JRM....

Fortunes change.

I don't think she will stay until 2022, but it's a good line for party stability, for European consumption,and leads probably to a compromise 2020 departure.

Do people really think May can get to June 2018 in one piece, never mind March 2019? All prejudices aside I genuinely don't. There are too many factions and too many opportunities for ambush.

Yup.

No one will want to challenge for the leadership with so much uncertainty, so there will not be a vote of no confience.

Monksfield

Mortimer said:

Monksfield said:

May trolling her own party now.

Can the contemporary Tory party get any more laughable?

Just a reminder; we're in government.

Your lot, who lost, still campaigning like the election hasn't happened yet.

In Government, but not in power.

Big_G_NorthWales

Monksfield said:

Mortimer said:

The_Apocalypse said:

When I saw the notification on my phone that May thought she could lead the Tories into 2022 I seriously couldn't believe it. I'm very intrigued to see the response to this among Tories.

However, in some ways I can understand why May feels this way. Her opponents/potential successors are all unappealing and pretty underwhelming - Boris, David Davis, JRM....

Fortunes change.

I don't think she will stay until 2022, but it's a good line for party stability, for European consumption,and leads probably to a compromise 2020 departure.

Do people really think May can get to June 2018 in one piece, never mind March 2019? All prejudices aside I genuinely don't. There are too many factions and too many opportunities for ambush.

She will be there until the end of Brexit and possibly longer.

FF43

NickPalmer said:

Cyclefree said:

Pong said:

FPT;

williamglenn said:

I haven't listened to all of this yet but the French ambassador to the UK summed up the Brexit vote quite pithily: "You had some ideologues in London voting against the EU, and people in the provinces voting against London."

https://twitter.com/patrickwintour/status/902591350062899201

That does rather capture it.

Did this person ask herself why this might have happened? Or, even, whether - just possibly - the actions and/or inactions of the EU over the over 40 years of our membership might have had something to do with this?

After all we went from a large majority in favour of the EU in 1975 in pretty much every part of the UK to a majority against the EU in 2016 in pretty much the whole of the UK other than NI, Scotland and London.

40 years experience of membership preceded this result.

If the EU was so good for the UK - all of it - why such skewed results? Blaming it all on ideologues or a hatred of London doesn't really answer the question. Why did such sentiments resonate to the extent they did? The EU is not entirely without responsibility here.

4 decades of mass media blaming all kinds of stuff on Brussels, Europhiles not bothering to make the case, plus a general mood of dissatisfaction. Also, opposition to the EU was more mainstream this time - in 1975, the "No" vote was led by Benn+Powell, neither of them widely trusted. This time, a range of opportunists joined in, led by our ever-flexible Foreign Minister.

This could sound like an excuse, but a lot of the motivation for people voting Leave had nothing to do with the EU. It matters because they will be disappointed when things don't improve as they expect and probably will get worse as a result of their vote.

Mortimer

Monksfield said:

Mortimer said:

Monksfield said:

May trolling her own party now.

Can the contemporary Tory party get any more laughable?

Just a reminder; we're in government.

Your lot, who lost, still campaigning like the election hasn't happened yet.

In Government, but not in power.

What, like the power to leave the EU?

Monksfield

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Monksfield said:

Mortimer said:

The_Apocalypse said:

When I saw the notification on my phone that May thought she could lead the Tories into 2022 I seriously couldn't believe it. I'm very intrigued to see the response to this among Tories.

However, in some ways I can understand why May feels this way. Her opponents/potential successors are all unappealing and pretty underwhelming - Boris, David Davis, JRM....

Fortunes change.

I don't think she will stay until 2022, but it's a good line for party stability, for European consumption,and leads probably to a compromise 2020 departure.

Do people really think May can get to June 2018 in one piece, never mind March 2019? All prejudices aside I genuinely don't. There are too many factions and too many opportunities for ambush.

She will be there until the end of Brexit and possibly longer.

We'll see.

FF43

Sean_F said:

FF43 said:

Sean_F said:

FF43 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Re helping the youth.

My initial policies.

Make universities for the elite, not everyone.

Make students doing proper degrees, such as the sciences, maths, engineering, medical, teaching, law, and history exempt from tuition fees, and they also get grants, if they remain and work in the UK for five years post graduation they don't have to repay their grants.

Also give exemptions to those that become teachers.

I'd also remove university status from the ex polys, having 40/50% of the population attend university is silly.

If you want your political party to be popular with the under 35 age group,which I think was Casino's challenge, that's the opposite of what you should do. More young people go to university because they have aspirations. Maybe they are misguided but any limiting to the elite will just mean the well connected get in and everyone else will be excluded and they know that. The government should make affordable third level education available to anyone who wants it and meets the minimum standards. They don't necessarily have to subsidise third level education but it should be made more efficient and better value. Then it's up to market forces whether students reckon they come out ahead.

You are politically right. TSE is morally right.

Curious why you make the distinction between what is politically right and what is morally right, given students see themselves as consumers?

I think that TSE is right that in effect, young people, going to poor universities, are being sold a pig in a poke.

You are right that it would be politically damaging to say so.

Thanks.

bigjohnowls

TM saying she will fight next GE

Wonderful news

Pong

chrisoxon said:

Pong said:

chrisoxon said:

For everyone talking about 6% interest and parents remortgaging to pay off student debt please read Martin Lewis's guide on student loans. The vast majority of students will never pay any interest and would be considerably worse off if they made overpayments to clear the debt.

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/students/student-loans-tuition-fees-changes

Martin Lewis was played for a fool by the conservatives.

The government decided to retrospectively add £6k to the amount median earning Plan2 graduates pay back, just like that.

Naive wannabe students trusted Martin Lewis, who naively trusted the tories to play fair.

If the tory party are ever going to win over young people, they'll need to stop picking their pockets.

So you haven't read what Lewis has written then that says the total amount owed is irre for the vast majority of students?

Taking out a Plan2 student loan means writing a blank cheque to the exchequer.

Martin Lewis still doesn't get it.

FF43

geoffw said:

Fraser Nelson on the radio points out that she could hardly say anything else given the question she was asked.

Even a lame duck doesn't deliberately hack its own leg off.

Big_G_NorthWales

Monksfield said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

The_Apocalypse said:

When I saw the notification on my phone that May thought she could lead the Tories into 2022 I seriously couldn't believe it. I'm very intrigued to see the response to this among Tories.

However, in some ways I can understand why May feels this way. Her opponents/potential successors are all unappealing and pretty underwhelming - Boris, David Davis, JRM....

Shows she is not a quitter and also sends a message to the EU that she is going nowhere.

As a conservative member it depends on events but i cannot see her leading into the next GE

G, the EU response will be the same as mine: Jesus, she's delusional.

It is the EU who are delusional and they are rapidly demonstrating why we need to be free of their pathetic protectionist attitudes.

Sky just now - UK just slammed the EU counterparts as incapable and is a big moment

williamglenn

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Monksfield said:

Mortimer said:

The_Apocalypse said:

When I saw the notification on my phone that May thought she could lead the Tories into 2022 I seriously couldn't believe it. I'm very intrigued to see the response to this among Tories.

However, in some ways I can understand why May feels this way. Her opponents/potential successors are all unappealing and pretty underwhelming - Boris, David Davis, JRM....

Fortunes change.

I don't think she will stay until 2022, but it's a good line for party stability, for European consumption,and leads probably to a compromise 2020 departure.

Do people really think May can get to June 2018 in one piece, never mind March 2019? All prejudices aside I genuinely don't. There are too many factions and too many opportunities for ambush.

She will be there until the end of Brexit and possibly longer.

End of Brexit in October, election in November?

Scott_P

Big_G_NorthWales said:

She will be there until the end of Brexit and possibly longer.

Another 10 years. Possibly longer...

Scott_P

https://twitter.com/ladpolitics/status/903009363564138504

William_H

Surely May has to say she's there for the long term, if she's not going immediately? Having a lame duck caretaker PM take us through such a key period would be ridiculous.

Ishmael_Z

bigjohnowls said:

TM saying she will fight next GE

Wonderful news

TICWNFTNGE.

Not her decision.

dixiedean

bigjohnowls said:

TM saying she will fight next GE

Wonderful news

Rejoice! Rejoice!

williamglenn

dixiedean said:

bigjohnowls said:

TM saying she will fight next GE

Wonderful news

Rejoice! Rejoice!

A fighter not a quitter, with a core of inner steel (tariff free).

Benpointer

Ishmael_Z said:

bigjohnowls said:

TM saying she will fight next GE

Wonderful news

TICWNFTNGE.

Not her decision.

TICWNFTNGE ?? WTF does that mean?

viewcode

Ishmael_Z said:

Scott_P said:

@PolhomeEditor: Maybe she's been hacked. https://twitter.com/johnestevens/status/902999378213965831

Or perhaps some sort of Stepford Wives malfunction. Or indeed Westworld.

Philip May: But the polls, Theresa. The headlines! Look at them!
Theresa May: Doesn't look like anything to me...

FrancisUrquhart

People might want to hold their horses. Given the question, may could hardly say funny you should ask, I am off in 2 years.

dixiedean

geoffw said:

Fraser Nelson on the radio points out that she could hardly say anything else given the question she was asked.

A politician who is nimble on her feet never answers such a question!

bigjohnowls

Benpointer said:

Ishmael_Z said:

bigjohnowls said:

TM saying she will fight next GE

Wonderful news

TICWNFTNGE.

Not her decision.

TICWNFTNGE ?? WTF does that mean?

Teresa is crap will not fight the next General Election.

What is wrong with you!!!

williamglenn

FrancisUrquhart said:

People might want to hold their horses. Given the question, may could hardly say funny you should ask, I am off in 2 years.

Was the question really an ambush that caught her unaware? The way it's hit all the media simultaneously suggests a pre-planned line.

In fact there are separate clips for Sky, BBC and ITN so it was obviously planned.

viewcode

Benpointer said:

Ishmael_Z said:

bigjohnowls said:

TM saying she will fight next GE

Wonderful news

TICWNFTNGE.

Not her decision.

TICWNFTNGE ?? WTF does that mean?

Theresa Is Crap [and] Will Not Fight The Next General Election

Now about the Monty Hall problem...

FrancisUrquhart

dixiedean said:

geoffw said:

Fraser Nelson on the radio points out that she could hardly say anything else given the question she was asked.

A politician who is nimble on her feet never answers such a question!

But we know may isn't.

Scott_P

viewcode said:

Now about the Monty Hall problem...

There are 3 doors

Behind 2 are general elections...

dixiedean

FrancisUrquhart said:

dixiedean said:

geoffw said:

Fraser Nelson on the radio points out that she could hardly say anything else given the question she was asked.

A politician who is nimble on her feet never answers such a question!

But we know may isn't.

Indeed.

not_on_fire

chrisoxon said:

Pong said:

chrisoxon said:

For everyone talking about 6% interest and parents remortgaging to pay off student debt please read Martin Lewis's guide on student loans. The vast majority of students will never pay any interest and would be considerably worse off if they made overpayments to clear the debt.

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/students/student-loans-tuition-fees-changes

Martin Lewis was played for a fool by the conservatives.

The government decided to retrospectively add £6k to the amount median earning Plan2 graduates pay back, just like that.

Naive wannabe students trusted Martin Lewis, who naively trusted the tories to play fair.

If the tory party are ever going to win over young people, they'll need to stop picking their pockets.

So you haven't read what Lewis has written then that says the total amount owed is irre for the vast majority of students?

Freezing the repayment threshold DOES impact how much is paid back, because it effectively increases the annual repayment in real terms. Lewis is quite right to complain - no commercial lender would have been allowed to do this.

Big_G_NorthWales

Expect UK to publically reject the EU commission negotiators tomorrow escalating a crisis to National Government level

bigjohnowls

Scott_P said:

viewcode said:

Now about the Monty Hall problem...

There are 3 doors

Behind 2 are general elections...

Is the Messiah behind the 3rd door.?

The one with that number 10 thing on.

viewcode

Ishmael_Z said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

So Mrs May intends to fight the 2022 general election.

Ugh, she really wants to destroy the Tory party.

Has she said that? And she thinks it's her decision?

Unsarcastically, if the Conservative party do not have the cojones to force her out, she can stay as long as she likes (or loses an election)

MikeSmithson

TMay simply does not have the mental dexterity to deal with difficult question which is why she goes to great lengths to avoid being pressed. What she should have said is

"This is completely irrelevant. What matters at the moment is getting the best deal for Britain in the Brexit negotiations and that is where my full focus is."

HYUFD

viewcode said:

Ishmael_Z said:

Scott_P said:

@PolhomeEditor: Maybe she's been hacked. https://twitter.com/johnestevens/status/902999378213965831

Or perhaps some sort of Stepford Wives malfunction. Or indeed Westworld.

Philip May: But the polls, Theresa. The headlines! Look at them!
Theresa May: Doesn't look like anything to me...

Like the ICM poll yesterday which had the Tories and Labour tied you mean? The BMG poll this month which had the Tories 3 points ahead you mean? The Survation last month which had May doing better than Davis, Hammond and Rudd v Corbyn with only Boris doing fractionally better?

Though I think she will still go after Brexit, probably to be succeeded by Boris, she knows that if she confirms now she is going before the next general election she becomes an immediate lame duck throughout the Brexit talks

MikeSmithson

viewcode said:

Ishmael_Z said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

So Mrs May intends to fight the 2022 general election.

Ugh, she really wants to destroy the Tory party.

Has she said that? And she thinks it's her decision?

Unsarcastically, if the Conservative party do not have the cojones to force her out, she can stay as long as she likes (or loses an election)

Well she lost the Tories their hard-earned majority and sought to carry on. Maybe after GE2022 she'll still strive to be there even if LAB wins