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There's always the Trump to go in 2017 / 2018 /2019 markets, where the odds for an early departure are rather more interesting.

Nigelb said:

There's always the Trump to go in 2017 / 2018 /2019 markets, where the odds for an early departure are rather more interesting.

Speaking of which (and thirdly), this is an intriguing comment from Medvedev:
"Mr Medvedev also warned that new steps would follow aimed at removing President Trump - whom he described as a "non-systemic player" - from power."
(BBC)

Now if someone were to introduce a next senior official to leave the White House market....

Slowly, slowly, catchee micees. Most members of the Labour Party are well aware of the plan to replace Corbyn this autumn, and who the plotters were. And most of the plotters are well aware that they have been outed, and are well aware that their local CLP's will be, and are being, taken over by the activists of Momentum and Corbyn supporters.

Revenge, it is often said, is a dish best served cold, and the membership, who were mostly ignored by the MP's in favour of the rich and powerful backers and friends, except when there was a requirement to get the foot soldiers out on the streets, door knocking and canvassing, are now making it clear that whoever holds the short, curlies and other dangly bits, controls who gets back into the best club in London.

That it was May actually saving Corbyn by calling a totally unnecessary GE and kyboshing the "Return of the Chicken Coup Plotters" makes the dish, oh! so much tastier for the membership.

SquareRoot said:

Stalin didn't have annual leadership contests. So it will be with Labour.

Doesn't look like Venezuala will be having them any time soon either:

Asked whether his political philosophy was closer to President Maduro's or Tony Blair's, Mr Williamson declined to answer but said: "When a government is doing good things, as they certainly were under Hugo Chavez...that's surely a good thing that we should celebrate."

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-40810341

Morris_Dancer said:

Good morning, everyone.

The PLP are too busy singing the chorus to "Oh, Jeremy Corbyn" to depose him. Or attempt to. In fairness, they are hobbled by a demented rulebook. They could always split. The question is whether their love of the Labour brand exceeds their loathing of the far left.

Labour are more likely to split than the Tories, BUT the two splits the party has had have ended in disaster for the splitters. Who now remembers the National Labour party? And there are very few of the SDP still about ...... although of course Vince was.

King Cole, but this time, those with an ideological split with Comrade Corbyn are the majority.

Mr. Root, the far left abuse?

King Cole, disliking the far left enough over 80% of MPs sign a motion of no confidence in such a leader and then wanting to see that same philosophy in action in government is utterly stupid.

old_labour said:

Jezza is on a cycling holiday in Croatia, according to the Mirror.

https://twitter.com/mrharrycole/status/892743144407748608

old_labour said:

Jezza is on a cycling holiday in Croatia, according to the Mirror.

Sturgeon sent the B-team too:

While Welsh First Minister Carwyn Jones was able to attend Ms Sturgeon sent her deputy John Swinney to represent Scotland instead.

Mr Swinney then made matters worse by not wearing a poppy like most of the other distinguished guests and instead putting an SNP lapel badge on his jacket.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/836255/Passchendaele-battle-2017-commemorations-Jeremy-Corbyn-Nicola-Sturgeon-holiday

old_labour said:

Jezza is on a cycling holiday in Croatia, according to the Mirror.

TBH, even contemplating going on a cycling holiday in one’s late 60’s is creditable.

Morris_Dancer said:

King Cole, colour me unconvinced.

I suspect, Mr D, that on some subjects we are never going to agree. Just a suspicion, of course!

Scott_P said:

old_labour said:

Jezza is on a cycling holiday in Croatia, according to the Mirror.

https://twitter.com/mrharrycole/status/892743144407748608

She and her colleagues should have attended the funeral service for this ex-serviceman and it wasn't the Germans that killed him.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/benefits-sanction-resulted-in-my-brother-david-clapson-s-death-says-gill-thompson-as-she-pleads-for-a6911386.html

OldKingCole said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Good morning, everyone.

The PLP are too busy singing the chorus to "Oh, Jeremy Corbyn" to depose him. Or attempt to. In fairness, they are hobbled by a demented rulebook. They could always split. The question is whether their love of the Labour brand exceeds their loathing of the far left.

Labour are more likely to split than the Tories, BUT the two splits the party has had have ended in disaster for the splitters. Who now remembers the National Labour party? And there are very few of the SDP still about ...... although of course Vince was.

And Anna Soubry.

old_labour said:

Scott_P said:

old_labour said:

Jezza is on a cycling holiday in Croatia, according to the Mirror.

https://twitter.com/mrharrycole/status/892743144407748608

She and her colleagues should have attended the funeral service for this ex-serviceman and it wasn't the Germans that killed him.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/benefits-sanction-resulted-in-my-brother-david-clapson-s-death-says-gill-thompson-as-she-pleads-for-a6911386.html

That's just awful.

NickPalmer said:

OldKingCole said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Good morning, everyone.

The PLP are too busy singing the chorus to "Oh, Jeremy Corbyn" to depose him. Or attempt to. In fairness, they are hobbled by a demented rulebook. They could always split. The question is whether their love of the Labour brand exceeds their loathing of the far left.

Labour are more likely to split than the Tories, BUT the two splits the party has had have ended in disaster for the splitters. Who now remembers the National Labour party? And there are very few of the SDP still about ...... although of course Vince was.

And Anna Soubry.

Chris Grayling too.

Jonathan said:

OchEye said:

Slowly, slowly, catchee micees. Most members of the Labour Party are well aware of the plan to replace Corbyn this autumn, and who the plotters were. And most of the plotters are well aware that they have been outed, and are well aware that their local CLP's will be, and are being, taken over by the activists of Momentum and Corbyn supporters.

Revenge, it is often said, is a dish best served cold, and the membership, who were mostly ignored by the MP's in favour of the rich and powerful backers and friends, except when there was a requirement to get the foot soldiers out on the streets, door knocking and canvassing, are now making it clear that whoever holds the short, curlies and other dangly bits, controls who gets back into the best club in London.

That it was May actually saving Corbyn by calling a totally unnecessary GE and kyboshing the "Return of the Chicken Coup Plotters" makes the dish, oh! so much tastier for the membership.

What a load of old rubbish. Some members still have doubts about Corbyn, but given the better than expected result in June, most CLPs I have anything to do with are more united than they have been, have got their confidence back and are actively licking their lips at taking on the govt.

Yes, it's striking on this generally well-informed site that lots of contributors have no real idea how either major party actually works.

And in reply to Square Root, I wouldn't interrupt a holiday to go to an event about Paschendaele either. It was a tragic waste, but a very long time ago, and I rreally wonder if next year when we've celebrated the centenary of the end of WW1, it isn't time to move on from it.

Tykejohnno said:

old_labour said:

Scott_P said:

old_labour said:

Jezza is on a cycling holiday in Croatia, according to the Mirror.

https://twitter.com/mrharrycole/status/892743144407748608

She and her colleagues should have attended the funeral service for this ex-serviceman and it wasn't the Germans that killed him.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/benefits-sanction-resulted-in-my-brother-david-clapson-s-death-says-gill-thompson-as-she-pleads-for-a6911386.html

That's just awful.

Yes, it is. But, not for the first time, I find myself asking "where was his family?" It clearly sounds like he was in a bad way, but how did it end up in that situation? Was nobody looking out for him?

The government has revealed through a job advert how it plans to tackle unfair trade after Brexit.
A new body called the UK Trade Remedies Organisation will be set up to tackle allegations of unfair competition and investigate complaints.
The online advert for a digital design lead said the organisation needs to be up and running by October 2018 - ahead of the UK's exit in March 2019.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-40803267

old_labour said:

Scott_P said:

old_labour said:

Jezza is on a cycling holiday in Croatia, according to the Mirror.

https://twitter.com/mrharrycole/status/892743144407748608

She and her colleagues should have attended the funeral service for this ex-serviceman and it wasn't the Germans that killed him.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/benefits-sanction-resulted-in-my-brother-david-clapson-s-death-says-gill-thompson-as-she-pleads-for-a6911386.html

Where was the sister in the run-up to this tragic incident?

TOPPING said:

NickPalmer said:

Jonathan said:

OchEye said:

Slowly, slowly, catchee micees. Most members of the Labour Party are well aware of the plan to replace Corbyn this autumn, and who the plotters were. And most of the plotters are well aware that they have been outed, and are well aware that their local CLP's will be, and are being, taken over by the activists of Momentum and Corbyn supporters.

Revenge, it is often said, is a dish best served cold, and the membership, who were mostly ignored by the MP's in favour of the rich and powerful backers and friends, except when there was a requirement to get the foot soldiers out on the streets, door knocking and canvassing, are now making it clear that whoever holds the short, curlies and other dangly bits, controls who gets back into the best club in London.

That it was May actually saving Corbyn by calling a totally unnecessary GE and kyboshing the "Return of the Chicken Coup Plotters" makes the dish, oh! so much tastier for the membership.

What a load of old rubbish. Some members still have doubts about Corbyn, but given the better than expected result in June, most CLPs I have anything to do with are more united than they have been, have got their confidence back and are actively licking their lips at taking on the govt.

Yes, it's striking on this generally well-informed site that lots of contributors have no real idea how either major party actually works.

And in reply to Square Root, I wouldn't interrupt a holiday to go to an event about Paschendaele either. It was a tragic waste, but a very long time ago, and I rreally wonder if next year when we've celebrated the centenary of the end of WW1, it isn't time to move on from it.

You are right about the Labour Party being revitalised. Jezza did well. Much better than expected, but I'm sure that, like Mr Micawber, the majority of members are operating on a "something will turn up" basis, rather than being active supporters of their leader.

Sounds much more like the Conservative Party queuing up to stab the PM in the back rather than actively supporting her .

MarkSenior said:

TOPPING said:

NickPalmer said:

Jonathan said:

OchEye said:

Slowly, slowly, catchee micees. Most members of the Labour Party are well aware of the plan to replace Corbyn this autumn, and who the plotters were. And most of the plotters are well aware that they have been outed, and are well aware that their local CLP's will be, and are being, taken over by the activists of Momentum and Corbyn supporters.

Revenge, it is often said, is a dish best served cold, and the membership, who were mostly ignored by the MP's in favour of the rich and powerful backers and friends, except when there was a requirement to get the foot soldiers out on the streets, door knocking and canvassing, are now making it clear that whoever holds the short, curlies and other dangly bits, controls who gets back into the best club in London.

That it was May actually saving Corbyn by calling a totally unnecessary GE and kyboshing the "Return of the Chicken Coup Plotters" makes the dish, oh! so much tastier for the membership.

What a load of old rubbish. Some members still have doubts about Corbyn, but given the better than expected result in June, most CLPs I have anything to do with are more united than they have been, have got their confidence back and are actively licking their lips at taking on the govt.

Yes, it's striking on this generally well-informed site that lots of contributors have no real idea how either major party actually works.

And in reply to Square Root, I wouldn't interrupt a holiday to go to an event about Paschendaele either. It was a tragic waste, but a very long time ago, and I rreally wonder if next year when we've celebrated the centenary of the end of WW1, it isn't time to move on from it.

You are right about the Labour Party being revitalised. Jezza did well. Much better than expected, but I'm sure that, like Mr Micawber, the majority of members are operating on a "something will turn up" basis, rather than being active supporters of their leader.

Sounds much more like the Conservative Party queuing up to stab the PM in the back rather than actively supporting her .

Not saying the Cons don't have their problems either. The difference is, many Cons thought Tezza was ok/competent prior to the GE campaign. They have subsequently realised she is useless.

For Lab, they all knew Jezza was useless to start with.

Morning all

First, thanks for the kind comments about my piece on the London elections from yesterday morning. I think it a little narcissistic to comment on your own thread but those received were interesting and I should point out the piece was started about 10 days after the GE when Labour's position looked stronger than it does now.

It will be interesting to see if those who turned out in such numbers for Labour in London in June will do so for the local contests next year but the notion that boroughs such as Croydon, Merton, Redbridge and Enfield are now beyond the reach of the Conservatives shows how far London has moved in the last 20 years (I remember the first Labour win in Croydon as being a political earthquake).

I'll try and do a refresher in the autumn and another next spring. It will be fascinating to see if we have any early autumn by-elections in London - those we've had have tended to be in strong Labour areas (St Helier in Merton) and tell us nothing.

Second, it would be good if those who contribute daily or regularly actually tried writing a thread of their own. A number of people always seem to have something to say so why not put up a topic. I'd make three points:

1) Don't make it a party political polemic or rant.
2) Put in at least two 1980s pop references.
3) Put in at least one reference to either Kylie Minogue or Star Trek. I did toy with "there's more chance of Labour winning Westminster than the Romulans conquering the Federation" but as I already had Kylie (so to speak), I felt it superfluous.

On the header, well yes, it's been a frenetic political period since 2014 (two GEs and two huge referenda plus a US election) and I suspect all those actively involved will welcome a period of calm.

It gives us all an opportunity to think beyond the baseline and consider other topics.

There are big questions about how we live and how we want to live and what kind of people and society we want to be which don't get much airing (usually because they are challenging and there are no easy answers).

Morris_Dancer said:

King Cole, supporting Palestine/a two-state solution I can understand.

Describing yourself as a friend of a group that has thrown political opponents and homosexuals from rooftops, and which denies the right of Israel to exist, less so.

Agree, although the whole of what we call the Middle East seems to be de-civilising itself at a frightening rate.

RIght lets hope interest rates stay at 0.25% today for the FTBs for my house x - They'll be applying about now.

@stodge

"There are big questions about how we live and how we want to live and what kind of people and society we want to be which don't get much airing (usually because they are challenging and there are no easy answers)."

Indeed... and what are those big questions? My starters for 10, expressed as issues rather than questions:

- governance in an increasingly interdependent world
- the moral hazard of state welfare (and state underwriting of financial institutions)
- the relative rewards for capital and labour in an increasingly automated world
- can Leoinid Slutsky take City straight back into the premiership?

OK, the last one was a question, but it's much the most critical.

Benpointer said:

Pulpstar said:

RIght lets hope interest rates stay at 0.25% today for the FTBs for my house x - They'll be applying about now.

Oooh - naked self-interest - can't say I blame you! Might rattle a few wrinkly PB tories' cages though.

In a nutshell you have illustrated why the Left is only turned to in extremis when the Right is blowing off its feet with a 12-bore. No idea whatsoever of what makes humans tick.

TOPPING said:

Benpointer said:

Pulpstar said:

RIght lets hope interest rates stay at 0.25% today for the FTBs for my house x - They'll be applying about now.

Oooh - naked self-interest - can't say I blame you! Might rattle a few wrinkly PB tories' cages though.

In a nutshell you have illustrated why the Left is only turned to in extremis when the Right is blowing off its feet with a 12-bore. No idea whatsoever of what makes humans tick.

Thank-you for your feedback!

Benpointer said:

TOPPING said:

Benpointer said:

Pulpstar said:

RIght lets hope interest rates stay at 0.25% today for the FTBs for my house x - They'll be applying about now.

Oooh - naked self-interest - can't say I blame you! Might rattle a few wrinkly PB tories' cages though.

In a nutshell you have illustrated why the Left is only turned to in extremis when the Right is blowing off its feet with a 12-bore. No idea whatsoever of what makes humans tick.

Thank-you for your feedback!

Here to help.

TonyE said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/MaryRiddell/status/893016328302362624

Of course, when you exist in the totally binary world in which Mary Riddell seems to reside, this might seem like a sensible statement.
When you understand that the world isn't binary, and there are many degrees of grey between the black and white proposals she insists are the only choices, you write her off as an just another ill informed vessel.

As you seem to be well-informed, could you enlighten us on how the Irish border question will be resolved?

Pulpstar said:

RIght lets hope interest rates stay at 0.25% today for the FTBs for my house x - They'll be applying about now.

Grandson One and his fiancée have just, after solicitors messing about since April, moved into their first house. Mortgage seems horrendous, although they seem relaxed about it.
Both teachers, so presumably jobs are reasonably secure.

Best of luck with your purchasers, Mr P.

OldKingCole said:

Pulpstar said:

RIght lets hope interest rates stay at 0.25% today for the FTBs for my house x - They'll be applying about now.

Grandson One and his fiancée have just, after solicitors messing about since April, moved into their first house. Mortgage seems horrendous, although they seem relaxed about it.
Both teachers, so presumably jobs are reasonably secure.

Best of luck with your purchasers, Mr P.

My house is roughly the same size as @Casino_Royale's but worth around a third of the value !
Mind you my onward purchase is such a bargain I daren't post it up here

Pulpstar said:

OldKingCole said:

Pulpstar said:

RIght lets hope interest rates stay at 0.25% today for the FTBs for my house x - They'll be applying about now.

Grandson One and his fiancée have just, after solicitors messing about since April, moved into their first house. Mortgage seems horrendous, although they seem relaxed about it.
Both teachers, so presumably jobs are reasonably secure.

Best of luck with your purchasers, Mr P.

My house is roughly the same size as @Casino_Royale's but worth around a third of the value !
Mind you my onward purchase is such a bargain I daren't post it up here

Are you/going to be outside the SE of England?

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/MaryRiddell/status/893016328302362624

I really struggle to understand this assumption that asking people to vote again would result in the "correct" outcome.

My guess is that LEAVE would win by an even bigger margin than 2016.

Richard_Nabavi said:

Beverley_C said:

williamglenn said:

https://www.ft.com/content/b3d62bcc-7713-11e7-90c0-90a9d1bc9691

The British state is steaming towards its third disaster in 15 years, after the Iraq war and the financial crisis.

Yes. And here is Brexit summed up in two sentences ....

"This generation of mostly former public schoolboys didn’t want Brussels running Britain. That was their caste’s prerogative."

A strong contender for the silliest comment made on Brexit, in a crowded field.

Not a patch on 'Have our cake and eat it', 'No deal is better than a bad deal' or 'Brexit means Brexit'. Now those really were purile.

GIN1138 said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/MaryRiddell/status/893016328302362624

I really struggle to understand this assumption that asking people to vote again would result in the "correct" outcome.

My guess is that LEAVE would win by an even bigger margin than 2016.

Who from a broken down and demoralised band of Brexiteers would be capable of leading an inspirational charge over the precipice?

A second referendum would only come about in circumstances where Brexit had already failed, and already been seen to fail. That's why a second referendum is unwinnable for Leave.

GIN1138 said:

I really struggle to understand this assumption that asking people to vote again would result in the "correct" outcome.

My guess is that LEAVE would win by an even bigger margin than 2016.

The article is very odd because it starts off with some interesting analysis and then plonks the idea of a referendum in at the end, with zero explanation of what the referendum would be about or how it would relate to what our EU friends might be prepared to accept. It's yet another bizarre example - from someone who should know better - of the phenomenon of UK commentators seeming to think that the nature of Brexit will be entirely determined by the UK.

stodge said:

CD13 said:

Mr Stodge,

Trump isn't likely to be a good president. On that we agree. He could learn by listening to wiser counsel - we can only hope so. However , some of the criticism verges on the hysterical, because it concerns his uncouth manner rather than the crime. And being uncouth will make him a special target for some.

I'd be interested in what the Russians thought they had on Hillary. it wouldn't be her table manners.

I do agree he has challenged, if not shattered, some of what we had previously considered the normal practices for a head of Government....

Washington isn't going to play those games and as the GOP has failed to control Trump, the military (in the shape of Kelly and McMaster) have taken over. The one area where Trump lacks influence is with the military in terms of not having within his immediate circle a military man so he has had to go beyond and Kelly has come in to restore order to the West Wing and McMaster has slowly edged out the Trump sycophants and now runs the NSC in a much more organised way.

Again, oddly enough, in the day to day functioning of Government, Trump is becoming largely irrelevant and we're seeing the evolution of a more technocratic administration which will, I think, serve America and the world well in the months to come.

I think the assumption that the military have 'taken over' might be a bit of a stretch.
Certainly Kelly and McMaster seem to be in the ascendant, but it will be interesting to watch how long McMaster in particular lasts, as he has steadily been removing Trump loyalists from the NSC...

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/a-national-security-council-staffer-is-forced-out-over-a-controversial-memo/535725/

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/hr-mcmaster-cleans-house-at-the-national-security-council/535767/

Sooner or later, I expect Trump to see this him getting above himself (there are plenty in the White House who will drip that poison in his ear), and fire him.
In the Trump universe, subservience is all. Those who forget that don't last.

logical_song said:

GIN1138 said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/MaryRiddell/status/893016328302362624

I really struggle to understand this assumption that asking people to vote again would result in the "correct" outcome.

My guess is that LEAVE would win by an even bigger margin than 2016.

There won't be a second referendum until the polls show that the electorate clearly want to Remain. At which point the MPs will grant such a referendum.

But that's assuming polls are right... Bearing in mind there was actually a poll on the day we voted to leave showing we would remain by 10%...

Mortimer said:

TOPPING said:

Benpointer said:

Pulpstar said:

RIght lets hope interest rates stay at 0.25% today for the FTBs for my house x - They'll be applying about now.

Oooh - naked self-interest - can't say I blame you! Might rattle a few wrinkly PB tories' cages though.

In a nutshell you have illustrated why the Left is only turned to in extremis when the Right is blowing off its feet with a 12-bore. No idea whatsoever of what makes humans tick.

Regurgitated quinoa and kum-bay-ah around the fire-pit after a day protesting against the Tories right?

Ah yes, you certainly have nailed what makes progressives like me tick, well done.

Meanwhile, if anyone is interested in sensible discussion, let me know

GIN1138 said:

Benpointer said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Beverley_C said:

williamglenn said:

https://www.ft.com/content/b3d62bcc-7713-11e7-90c0-90a9d1bc9691

The British state is steaming towards its third disaster in 15 years, after the Iraq war and the financial crisis.

Yes. And here is Brexit summed up in two sentences ....

"This generation of mostly former public schoolboys didn’t want Brussels running Britain. That was their caste’s prerogative."

A strong contender for the silliest comment made on Brexit, in a crowded field.

Not a patch on 'Have our cake and eat it', 'No deal is better than a bad deal' or 'Brexit means Brexit'. Now those really were purile.

I thought "no deal is better than a bad deal" was reasonable.

Ok, I'll concede that was the best of the three, even though I disagreed with it obv!

stodge said:

Morning all

First, thanks for the kind comments about my piece on the London elections from yesterday morning. I think it a little narcissistic to comment on your own thread but those received were interesting and I should point out the piece was started about 10 days after the GE when Labour's position looked stronger than it does now.

It will be interesting to see if those who turned out in such numbers for Labour in London in June will do so for the local contests next year but the notion that boroughs such as Croydon, Merton, Redbridge and Enfield are now beyond the reach of the Conservatives shows how far London has moved in the last 20 years (I remember the first Labour win in Croydon as being a political earthquake).

I'll try and do a refresher in the autumn and another next spring. It will be fascinating to see if we have any early autumn by-elections in London - those we've had have tended to be in strong Labour areas (St Helier in Merton) and tell us nothing.

Second, it would be good if those who contribute daily or regularly actually tried writing a thread of their own. A number of people always seem to have something to say so why not put up a topic. I'd make three points:

1) Don't make it a party political polemic or rant.
2) Put in at least two 1980s pop references.
3) Put in at least one reference to either Kylie Minogue or Star Trek. I did toy with "there's more chance of Labour winning Westminster than the Romulans conquering the Federation" but as I already had Kylie (so to speak), I felt it superfluous.

On the header, well yes, it's been a frenetic political period since 2014 (two GEs and two huge referenda plus a US election) and I suspect all those actively involved will welcome a period of calm.

It gives us all an opportunity to think beyond the baseline and consider other topics.

There are big questions about how we live and how we want to live and what kind of people and society we want to be which don't get much airing (usually because they are challenging and there are no easy answers).

I absolutely agree that more should try their hand at header writing. It's a bracing experience.

On your other points: I don't think there's any problem in commenting on your own thread if you are asked direct questions by commenters or once everyone else has had a fair chance to say their piece.

Headers can provoke but they must also inform. Great provocation requires great information. (Equally, posters who are greatly provoked should always consider whether the problem is theirs rather than the header writer's, and what information has been given along with the provocation.)

One of the pleasures of writing headers is sneaking in cultural references and seeing whether they are spotted.

GIN1138 said:

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/MaryRiddell/status/893016328302362624

I really struggle to understand this assumption that asking people to vote again would result in the "correct" outcome.

Comes from that "resistance is futile" school of Borg/Remain thought that membership of the EU is inevitable?

Pulpstar said:

OldKingCole said:

Pulpstar said:

OldKingCole said:

Pulpstar said:

RIght lets hope interest rates stay at 0.25% today for the FTBs for my house x - They'll be applying about now.

Grandson One and his fiancée have just, after solicitors messing about since April, moved into their first house. Mortgage seems horrendous, although they seem relaxed about it.
Both teachers, so presumably jobs are reasonably secure.

Best of luck with your purchasers, Mr P.

My house is roughly the same size as @Casino_Royale's but worth around a third of the value !
Mind you my onward purchase is such a bargain I daren't post it up here

Are you/going to be outside the SE of England?

Yep. East Mids.

Sounds like a good idea. Prices round here (N Essex) are going crazy. Two-bed bungalow, £400k. similar but without parking £350k.

Sean_F said:

AlastairMeeks said:

On topic, both Labour and the Conservatives have decided that they won enough in June to making revisiting the leadership unnecessary for now. Both are wrong.

I think the Conservatives fear what would be unleashed if there were a leadership contest.

It's going to be unleashed anyway, sooner or later. May as well get on with it.

It might have the side benefit of forcing the Conservatives to alight on a single position on the Brexit negotiations. For a government, more than one position is no better than none.

AlastairMeeks said:

On topic, both Labour and the Conservatives have decided that they won enough in June to making revisiting the leadership unnecessary for now. Both are wrong.

I have been wondering if Labour's result could be compared to Dunkirk:

1) They lost and lost badly, and ended up with nothing;

2) They have, however, done much less badly than expected due to some fancy footwork at the last minute, so they can pass it off as a triumph;

3) They have no clue what to do next and are vaguely hoping that events will go their way;

4) They will survive, to fight back at some unspecified future date, but as the alternative was with hindsight never likely unless they did something ultra-cretinous like surrender/disband that doesn't leave them much further forward;

5) All informed opinion is thinking radical changes are needed but the ones who messed up so spectacularly are digging their heels in and ignoring reality.

The question is, will Brexit then turn into Barbarossa (with us as the Wehrmacht)?

stodge said:

AlastairMeeks said:

I absolutely agree that more should try their hand at header writing. It's a bracing experience.

On your other points: I don't think there's any problem in commenting on your own thread if you are asked direct questions by commenters or once everyone else has had a fair chance to say their piece.

Headers can provoke but they must also inform. Great provocation requires great information. (Equally, posters who are greatly provoked should always consider whether the problem is theirs rather than the header writer's, and what information has been given along with the provocation.)

One of the pleasures of writing headers is sneaking in cultural references and seeing whether they are spotted.

I think where TSE is concerned, the more blatant the reference and the more it references Ms Minogue the better all round.

Why all the references to Miss Minogue, and not to other pop singers from the '80s and '90s?

Better the devil you know, I guess.

stodge said:

AlastairMeeks said:

I absolutely agree that more should try their hand at header writing. It's a bracing experience.

On your other points: I don't think there's any problem in commenting on your own thread if you are asked direct questions by commenters or once everyone else has had a fair chance to say their piece.

Headers can provoke but they must also inform. Great provocation requires great information. (Equally, posters who are greatly provoked should always consider whether the problem is theirs rather than the header writer's, and what information has been given along with the provocation.)

One of the pleasures of writing headers is sneaking in cultural references and seeing whether they are spotted.

I think where TSE is concerned, the more blatant the reference and the more it references Ms Minogue the better all round.

I was concerned my piece was by definition London-centric and some of the regulars make a point of saying they don't live in "that London". Fine - the truth is the London local and Mayoral contests (though in the case of Newham contest is probably overstating it) will be reported as being of national relevance and the Conservatives still hold 21 seats in the capital - no one is saying that London will follow Liverpool and Manchester and eliminate all Conservative MPs but it may become more like Birmingham with the Conservatives reduced to the leafiest fringes)

21seats is a pretty good result, for finishing up 22% behind Labour. In 1997, the Conservatives were 18% behind Labour, and reduced to 11 seats.

But, Greater London Conservatives seem destined to become like New York Republicans, capable of winning here and there, but operating in an overwhelmingly left wing environment.